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The Fenn Treasure: A Real-Life Hunt That Turned Deadly · PNW Haunts & Homicides

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Now I would like to read to you the poem.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Oh please we go. Can we call it a riddle
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: because that's funnier.
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: It kind of is a riddle. Well yeah, it's supposed
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: to be like you have to figure it out to
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: lead you to the chest, and absolutely is a riddle.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Riddle, Yeah, riddle me that. The thrill is the chase
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: by Forrest ben As I have gone alone in there
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: and with my treasures bold, I can keep my secrets
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: ware and hint of riches new and old.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Hi Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi creepy people.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Oh hello, Hi creepy people. Oh sorry, that creepy who's
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: in our studio right now?
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Pretty on brand? Though creepy can't.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: See me, but you can hear me. You can't see me,
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: but you can smell me. I'm a party ghost. If
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: I come back as a ghost, I'm just gonna fart
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: in people's presence. Oh my gosh, is it like the
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: rotten egg? Kind like sulfur demon? You're gonna come back
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: as a demon. My heart's smell me?
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, what does an amazing spark smell like?
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: Does it? Because it probably doesn't smell like a roast beef.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: Of course it has to be something not.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Like a flower. Well, this is not a fart podcast.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: This is PNW Haunson Homicides, And we do have guests
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: with us today. We're actually in their studio. Uh so
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: we're kind of crashing on them. This is Shay and
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Jody from Rainy Day Rabbit Holes. Hello, listeners, I'm Shay.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: That was Jody, I'm Jody. I'm Shay. Hello, I'm the
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: farty one. Yeah, make sure you're clear on which one
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: is that. There will be a quiz at the end,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: just not currently, okay, guys, Oh thank goodness, it's a
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: small space.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, could get real. Oh my goodness, are.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: We still doing tarot at the end of this? I
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: get okay, cool because we do tarot in every episode,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: so that works well.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: And then there's the whole thing about how it makes shay.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Croft don't make me cry today. Yeah, we'll just do
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: it about the story. We won't do personal.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: There we go nailed it all right. The story of
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: the Fenn Treasure begins with Forest Ben.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: We love spell.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: It's f O R R E S T f e
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: n N.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: Okay, I just say the last name spell. But oh, Okay, well,
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: I appreciate that though now we know.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Forest as a first name can be spelled more than
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: one way.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: That is, you could do our multiple rs. So is
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: he a pirate? R?
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: He was an art dealer, author, and Vietnam War veteran
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: who became the architect of one of the most famous
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: modern treasure huh in American history.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: He is a pirate kind of A yeah, a pirate.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: It's a good instinct treasure YEA, yeah, I'm excited. In
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: twenty ten, Ben announced that he had hidden a bronze
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: chest filled with gold jewels and rare artifacts somewhere in
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: the Rocky Mountains.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: But for why, I really good question. I would like
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: them to be more specific about the rare artifacts.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: Yes, is it a gold plated butt plug?
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Or These are the questions of our generation.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: And when when we're in the rock, like somewhere in
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: the Rocky Mountains, that's all he tells you where they
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: wouldn't have to make a map with little X on it.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: That's true. That would ruin all the fun, Joe, actual treasure,
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: like a picture of a treasure chest, like you know
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: what you see on the map?
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: I mean that would be in keeping with sort of
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: the traditional treasure map scenario.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Feels like the right thing to do. It's not what
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: he's gonna do. Oh wow, okay, yeah yeah yeah. The
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: estimated value of the contents of the chest a super
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: casual one to two million dollars.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: Again, please be back to But for why did he
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: just have money falling out of his ass? I you
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: know it.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Art dealer and author, you.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: Know maybe, yeah, that's what I'm thinking.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Possibly A cryptic twenty four line poem published in
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: his memoir The Thrill of the Chase, Oh Boy, was
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: the soul set of clues intended to lead searchers to
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: the treasure. So this is the what or the WTF
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: of the story. Well, so now I would like to
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: read to you the poem.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Oh please we go. Can we call it a riddle
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: because that's funnier.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: It kind of is a riddle. Well yeah, it's supposed
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: to be like you have to figure it out to
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: lead you to the chest, And absolutely is a riddle.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, riddle me that the thrill is the chase by
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Forrest ben As I have gone alone in there and
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: with my treasures bold I can keep my secrets were
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: and hint of riches new and old. Begin it where
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: water's halt, and take it in the canyon down not
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: far but too far to walk. Put it in below
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: the home of Brown. Yeah no, it says below.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Says below. Are you on your belly or are you
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: on your back?
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: This situation the home of Brown, The home of Brown,
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: Home of Brown.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Don't start inserting holes into.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: This, okay, sorry, yeah, okay.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: All of this seemed pretty above board until I had
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: to say it out last.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, well, when you have fourteen year old boys
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: as your co.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Hot, yeah, what are you gonna do?
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: It'll happen. There's some huge tits.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Like instantly, both Shane and I were.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: Like, I like, she's already like like I knew it. Okay.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: From there, it's no place for the meet. The end
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: is ever drawing nigh. There will be no paddle up
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: your creek. Wow, just heavy loads and water high.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: Okay, because this is so bad, So you didn't you
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: didn't hear this when you wrote it, like when you
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: were doing when you were researching this, you didn't hear
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: it the way we're hearing it.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: No, No, because I just I really was reading it
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: for like each of the stanzas I'm gonna go through
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: kind of like a really quick summary of like what
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: it's supposed to kind of signify.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: And that's where my focus was. Treasure. You're yeah Brown,
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: thinking of boom and now it's over, like we can't
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: well and there might be a golden butt plug in.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: It makes I know, it makes it fits fits in
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: the Brown home, the home of Brown. If it's real
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: brag or almost doesn't fit, is that what's going for? Alright,
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: let's keep going.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: No, we're only halfway through. Get it together. Okay. If
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: you've been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: your quest to cease, but Terry scanned with Marvel gaze.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: Just take the chest.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: And go in peace. So why is it that I
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: must go and leave my trove for all to seek
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: the answers? I already know I've done it, tired and
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: now I'm weak. So hear me all and listen good.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Your effort will be worth the cold. If you are
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: brave and in the wood, I give you title to
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: the gold. Okay, So the first stanza is context. Allegedly,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: the next four stanzas are the actual clues.
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, so we got our water, stop the brown
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: stuff Home of the Brown. Yeah, you guys are in trouble.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: There was something about.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: A crevas ca yeah, okay, all right, all right, all right.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: The final stanza is confirmation slash instructions. Okay, why do
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: you have to carefully take it?
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: Get out so fast?
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: That's a good question.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: That's a good question.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Stanza one is context but not direction. This opening isn't
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: part of the physical route. It sets the stage. Ben
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: went alone, kept a secret and hinted at something both
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: new and old. He had something borrowed and something okay,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: stands a two clues number one through four ish. The
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: starting point names the home of Brown, likely a key landmark,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: but he doesn't identify it specifically.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Most people avoid it, some go for it.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys are gonna feel like such as had.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: The leading theory is that brown equals brown trout.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, that makes sense, idiots. I was like, this
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: is the third your.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Brain, go right, hooligans. Brown trout are heavily stalked in
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: rocky mountain rivers. Fish habitats are mapped and consistent. Okay,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Home of brown equals where brown trout live.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: Okay, okay, nothing to do with butttholes so far, I
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: don't know. I feel yeah.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: So the clue became an instructional guide. Go to a
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: river or canyon and find a known brown trout area. Okay,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: stands A three clues five to seven. Into the wild,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: the terrain becomes more rugged. You'll encounter a creek you
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: can't paddle that presents increasing physical challenges like elevation or
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: rough water. Stands A four clues eight through nine. The
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: final spot. Look down nearby to locate the treasure. Don't linger,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: retrieve it and get the fuck out, he said, leave yeah,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: bye bye.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: For why it's in a bear den.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Oh that's a pretty good guess. They like those fishies.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Stands of five is motivation. Ben reflects on his reasons legacy, mortality,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: and the desire to inspire adventure. Stands A six final
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: instruction slash conditions. The location is cold, wooded and requires
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: some bravery. The finder earns rightful ownership of the.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Tris if they survived the bear attack and the loads
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: from the bear. I mean, I don't know the load
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: where the loads oh man.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Ben claimed that his motivations were multifaceted. He reportedly wanted
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: to inspire people to explore nature, rekindle a sense of adventure,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: and step away from the increasingly digital world, A worthy cause,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: no doubt. As a cancer survivor, I think the other
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: motive that he cited must have been particularly important to him.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: He also expressed a desire to create a legacy, something
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: enduring that would challenge and excite generations. So now we've
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: got our why.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, didn't sound like it. Why Yeah at the end
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: it said it sounded like he was sick or something.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean at that point he'd already like survived.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: But I think it it just you know, it's kind
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: of almost like not not exactly like a near death experience,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: but sort of like, Wow, this life changing event has
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: put things in.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: Perspective for you.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I got it.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: Way, do something, Yeah, create something for He's like other people.
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: You need to get out there, you need to live,
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: You need to have adventure. Your life is too short
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: to spend attached to Netflix or whatever. Go search for
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: this thing. Yeah that's sweet, that's cool.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, weird yet?
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: But what out the wear?
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Because I know Jodie wants to know.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: I have to know we all want to know. I'm
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: pretty sure it's a bear den Well.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: According to Fenn, the treasure was hidden somewhere north of
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Santa Fe at an elevation above five thousand feet but
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: below the peaks of the Rocky Mountains. He insisted that
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: it was not buried, okay, but rather concealed in a
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: location accessible to a determined searcher.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: So was it one of those like big fake rocks
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: that you would put a key, big like the one
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: you put your like water meter under or whatever.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's a fake bear then, yeah, he said.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: Bear, I'm really going hard on that. I mean, in
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: Japan they have animatronic wolves to scare off other wolves.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: So like smart an animatronic bear? Wow? I like this.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, now, you guys, you've got everything you need
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: to go and find this doing it? Come on, how
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: hard could it be?
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: I have a bare bell, so we can do it.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah from Japan? Does it attract no way scares of okay? Yeah? Okay.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Almost immediately the hunt captured public imagination. Thousands of people
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: from across the United States, and eventually the world began
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: attempting to decipher the poem online forums, blogs, and communities
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: sprang up employers, some of them unhinged.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: Were you on Reddit? Oh yeah, yeah, I went.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: I found a couple of different blog sources, but Reddit.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: There's I believe, actually multiple subreddits that we're dead. Reddit
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: for commentary, great ads are real, something new rabbit holes. Yeah.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Also kind of ironic because he wanted people to get
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: off right all there.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Yep. So all of these communities sprang up, dedicated to
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: interpreting each line and mapping possible locations. Some believed the
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: clues pointed to specific landmarks such as rivers, canyons, or
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: historical sites, while others, yeah, pear dead, while others thought
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: the poem required abstract or symbolic interpretation. And I think
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: that a poem that serves as the map to a
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: literal treasure, Treasure Hunt probably seeks to strike a balance
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: between the two. I argue, right, no, yeah, because you can't.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: It can't all be like left at the you know.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: Starbuck Well, there'd be no fun with that, yeah, right,
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: So challenge to that.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: There's got to be a little bit of like metaphor
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: something in there, you know. From the outset. There were skeptics.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Some questioned whether the treasure even existed, while others criticized
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: the ambiguity of the clues, which seems like a skill issue.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: It's not smart enough to figure it out, yeah.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Which I mean, granted it is. You know, it wouldn't
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: be an easy puzzle to solve.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: Well, a treasure worth a million something dollars, right, yeah,
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: you're not going to be like okay and right yeah,
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: like so like within fifteen minutes of this being released,
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: somebody's out there and found it and be like exactly, yeah, exactly.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Despite this, the hunt continued to gain momentum, evolving into
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: a cultural phenomenon that blurred the line between puzzles solving
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: an obsession.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: That is a that is a theme in all any subreddit. Well, no,
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: like seeking out Like it's like, for instance, Bigfoot hunters,
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: like they become sewing and into it that they forget
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: they have families and drags and becomes their entire personality,
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: right kind of like podcasts. Yeah, that's what we do now,
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: it's our personality.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, basically yeah, I mean could be worse.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, couldn't be a whole we could be right winger podcast.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: I was gonna then we would get we would get
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: a job, Then we'd get paid, and then we could
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: take we could take jets wherever we go. Yeah, there
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: you go, we get steak and lobster. Yeah, that we
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: are doing it wrong.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Ben maintained that anyone with determination and cleverness could find
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: the treasure. He also released occasional hints and statements over
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: the years, though these often deepened the mystery rather than
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: clarifying it. Which is an oil as fuck. It's sort
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: of like an alice in wonderland vibe like did you
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: give me any actual information?
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: The combination of tangible reward, intellectual challenge, and romantic adventure
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: proved irresistible to many. As the year past, the search
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: for the Fend Treasure intensified. Estimates suggest that more than
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: three hundred thousand people participated in the hunt. Wow at
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: some point.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: A lot.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: The rockies be packed, right, hopefully it's like trails.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: I know, no, can I get to that. I'm just
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: predicting your story. I already know it's a bear. Okay,
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: tell me after the Breakwow, Okay, all right now, I'm
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: ready how to break?
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Searchers, often referred to as bend seekers, came from all
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: walks of life, including retirees, students, engineers, and outdoor enthusiasts.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Many invested significant time and money into their quests, traveling
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: repeatedly to remote areas in hopes of solving the poem
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: the riddle.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: It's like crazy geocashers. Yes, exactly, I've got I have
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: a friend that travels the world doing geocashing. Wow, that's dedication,
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: truly our obsession. Yeah, part might be part of her personal.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: We did say it would blur the lines. The hunt
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: fostered a strong sense of community among participants. Online discussion
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: boards read it, and social media groups became hubs for
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: collaboration and debate. Some searchers share detailed theories, maps, and
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: even step by step interpretations of the poem.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: But why would you do that?
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Well, okay, so she's the other camp, while others guarded
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: their ideas closely, fearing that revealing too much could cost
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: them the Yeah.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: If you've spent all this time and effort, why would
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: you then be like.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Look, everybody, I think I served it, don't get there
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: before me. That's what you put out there when you
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: want to put people on the wrong.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: In Arizona.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean by virtue being in the rockies.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, I mean, you could just put somebody
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: off just by putting them on the wrong creek or whatever.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't even have to be the wrong.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Despite the camaraderie, the hunt also had a
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: darker side. I'm sure black bear murder. The ambiguity of
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: the clues led some individuals into dangerous terrain, including steep cliffs,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: rushing rivers, and remote wilderness areas. Tragically, at least five
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: people lost their lives while searching.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: For the treasure. Wow.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: These debts prompted calls from law enforcement and families of
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: victims to end the hunt.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Authorities in states like New Mexico and Colorado urged Ben
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: to call it off, citing the risks involved. Ben, however,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: maintained that the treasure was hidden in a location that
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: did not require dangerous climbing or extreme risk.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: So stop doing that.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so don't do that, he said.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: He was like, I can't be responsible for other people.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: I don't know, right, not find a bear? Dun dangerous?
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: A million dollar question A love.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: He emphasized that those who ventured into hazardous areas were
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: misinterpreting the clues. Nevertheless, critics argued that the very nature
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: of the hunt encouraged risky behavior, especially among those convinced
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: they were close to solving it.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, two of them show up together, and one of
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: them's got a gun.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Right I mean or Additionally, there were incidents of illegal
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: digging and trespassing, including a notable case in which a
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: treasure secret damnag protected land in Yellowstone National Park while searching.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: They're going to be cursed.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: Same idiot that probably goes to try and pet a buffalo.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's kind of a vibe.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: The hunt had broader cultural implications as well. It reignited
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: interest in treasure hunting as a hobby and inspired similar
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: hunts around the world. It also highlighted the power of
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: storytelling and mystery in the digital age, demonstrating how a
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: single poem could mobilize hundreds of thousands of pep Wow. So,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: if you've made it this far, I have kind of
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: good news bad news situation for you. In June twenty twenty.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I know what was happening then.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, just making sure we're all on the same page.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: It was safer to be outdoors. Yeah yeah, fires, yeah, yeah,
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: that was that bad year. I got evacuated here.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Oh you know, I don't know if there was in
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Yellowstone specifically. Yeah, that'd be interesting to look at. In
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: June twenty twenty, after a decade of speculation and searching,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: forrest Ben announced that the treasure had finally been found.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah all it, Dick was a little pandemic. You know,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: people work time.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: That makes sense.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Yep, yep, yep, yep. The discovery was made by an
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: unnamed individual who chose to remain anonymous at the time.
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: I don't think I think that should have been a stipulation.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: You're not going to be able to right, Well, the
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: lottery you.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Have to exactly. Yeah, which actually I'm in supportive if
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: you win the lottery, I would want to win it
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: in a state where they let you remain for sure.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Ye.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: Well, there's so many people.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's actually a very famous case of a
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: guy who was murdered after winning lottery.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: And yeah, it's not a good. It's not a good.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: You don't want to you don't want to tell anybody. No,
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: but there will be signs, yeah, but there they'll be
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: hard to see because I'll stop caring about money and
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: I'll buy whatever I want and then you'll just think
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: it's just a normal day. Then I have to go
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: work more hours. Yeah, that'll be the party. It's different.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Ben confirmed that the finder had sent him photographic evidence
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: of the chest and its contents, verifying its authenticity. It's
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: let's see, yeah, pigsure, it didn't happen.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: You have to know what this is used for if
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: you want it.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: It's just some sort of paperweight.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was my grandpa's.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: Oh gosh.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: The announcement brought an abrupt end to the hunt, but
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: did not provide closure for many of its participants. The
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: lack of details about the location and the identity of
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: the finder fueled skepticism and frustration.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: Like he just called it quits after so many years
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: of he just called it an and on. Uh, we
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: didn't know where it was, Like, they never disclosed where
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: they found it.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Well, we're gonna get like, where's where I of course,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: of course I'm gonna I'm gonna.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: Tell there was no treasure that was I was about
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: to say. It was like from the beginning, I was like,
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: this is a hoax, right, this has got to be
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: a hoax.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Does not seem to be Oh okay, okay, I don't know,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: remain open minded.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: Okay, I will try my best.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Some searchers refused to believe that the treasure had truly
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: been found, while others demanded transparency. Later that year, the
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: finder was revealed to be Jack Stuff or stuff I
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not really sure, sorry, Jack, a medical
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: student and former journalist from Michigan. Hmm, stuff and stuff.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: That's German.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: German eventually shared that he had spent years analyzing the
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: poem and had identified a location in Wyoming's wilderness. However,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: he chose not to disclose the exact spot, citing concerns
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: about environmental damage and the potential for overcrowding. He's like,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: y'all were kind of assholes while you thought the money
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: was still available.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure there was a lot of people just
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: like treating the wilderness like they do their own homes,
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: throwing trash on the floor, which I've seen. Oh yeah, but.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Who would need to go there if it's not there? Well,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: it's like a photo lot, I guess, just.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: To see, Yeah, just to make sure that the fake
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: rocket was under Yeah, exactly, that's the bar dun.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: And there are theories about like a more precise location,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: but we don't know exactly where it was discovered, so
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: could be a barda.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: So we still don't even know that. I'm pretty sure
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: it was.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: I believe you. If it was, it's probably a fake
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: burden with a fake treasure.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: But stuf and stuff revelation did little, did little to
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: quell controversy. Many searchers felt that the secrecy undermined the
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: spirit of the hunt, which they believed should have culminated
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: in a clear and verifiable solution. Others questioned whether the
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: clues and the poems were sufficiently precise to lead to
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: a single location, suggesting that the hunt may have relied
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: more on persistence and luck than pure logic, which I
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: feel like is.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: Pretty it was fairly broad. Yeah.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Ben himself passed away in September twenty twenty.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: Oh just minutes later, right, just a few months. I
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: was about to say he was just waiting for somebody
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: to find it so he could grow. Yeah.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I chose not to pull it this thread,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: so I didn't put it in my notes. But uh,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: it's I saw some some some things that it may
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: be the heat had died by his own hands.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: Oh no, which, if that's it, I was.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Like, I don't want to know that.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: If that's the case, it's like, oh shit, yeah no,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: he really was just hold on for some of your fun.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Oh that's right, that it's fluff and stuff. Yeah, I know,
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: what was his name? Stuff and stuff, stuff and stuff.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: That's right, went and found it.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I know. But you feel like kind of an ass Yeah.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Right, And I would except for not something million dollars,
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: I'd get over it.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: I guess.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: Well, and if it was worth one point something million
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: dollars when he put it in in like twenty ten
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: and twenty twenty, it was worth you know.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Its highest valuation, from what I understand, was approximately two millions.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so you know, over the core of roughly
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: ten years, it sounds like probably doubled its valuation. Just
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: super cool.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: His death marked the end of an era and further
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: complicated efforts to fully understand the Hunt. Without fen to
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: provide definitive answers, many questions about the poem and its
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: intended interpretation remain unresolved. In the aftermath, the long awaited
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: treasure chest and its contents were sold. The chest, once
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: a symbol of mystery and adventure, became a collectible artifact
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: tied to a unique moment in modern folklore. The legacy
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: of the Fen Treasure Hunt is complex and multifaceted. On
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: one hand, it succeeded in achieving many of Fenn's stated goals.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: It inspired countless people to explore the outdoors, engage in
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: critical thinking, and embrace a sense of adventure. Get the
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: fuck outside.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Yes. For many participants, the journey itself, rather than the treasure,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: was the most rewarding aspect of the experience, which sounds
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: like something that uh, you know, second, third, and fourth place.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah right. Did you have fun camping? Yeah? Yeah, that's true.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Yea.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Honestly, it doesn't just get you to yellow Stone then you.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: Go fuck yourself, but nature the treasure. Yes.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: The hunt also became a significant cultural phenomenon, spawning books, documentaries, podcasts,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: and online communities. It demonstrated the enduring appeal of treasure
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: hunts and the human fascination with hidden will and unsolved mysteries.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: The story has since been revisited in various media, including
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: television adaptations that explore both the excitement and the controversies
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: surrounding the hunt. At the same time, the darker aspects
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: of the hunt cannot be ignored. I mean you could,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: but then you'd just be an asshole. The deaths of
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: several surgers, along with instances of illegal activity and environmental damage,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: highlight the risks associated with such endeavors. And didn't you
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: just can't trust the public. No, no, no, it's dick road.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Don't be a dick.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: They're always going to be Dick's are going to dick.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Dicks be dicking, you know, they're just digging around. Critics
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: argue that the hunt lacked sufficient safeguards and that Fenn
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: underestimated the links to which people would go in pursuit
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: of the treasure, which is very true.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: I was kind of surprised that law enforcement didn't, like,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: kind of take firmer action on the situation.
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: But I guess I don't know what else they do
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: or like that people, the forest rangers and the people
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: that have to go out and rescue people is happening,
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: or or manage the area that you've trapesed on and ruined.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: You have to come clean that up. You'd think that
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: they would have put a step to it.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: But you know, at the same I say that, but
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: then I'm like how though, how did they do that? Yeah,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: and it's it's like, what are you going to?
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: Well, you could get Fen to come out and say
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: maybe a little more guidelines.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Or or that is really his bad.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: Real the drama.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: The unresolved nature of the poem continues to intrigue and
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: frustrate enthusiasts even after the treasure's discovery. Debates persist about
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: the correct interpretation of the clues, which seems like get
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: a life, nerd.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah it's over.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: No, I mean I think it's still interesting, but yeah,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like, gods, they found the treasure, so
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know if move on, It might be time
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: to move on. Some believe that multiple solutions were possible. Actually,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: I feel as though that may be inaccurate because I
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: think there was only one treasure chest.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah it was if it was in one place, especially
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: one solution.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Think I think just the one. But what do I know?
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: While others argue that the poem was intentionally designed to
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: be an ambiguous which yeah, no shit, sure. Yeah. In
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: a broader sense, the Fend Treasure reflects the power of
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: narrative in shaping human behavior. A single story combined with
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: a tangible reward was enough to mobilize a vast and
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: diverse community, a lot of people, that people. It also
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: underscores the role of the Internet in amplifying such phenomena.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: I love that word.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Enabling collaboration, speculation, and obsession on a global scale seems
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: super healthy. I don't think that that will become problematic
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: at any Ultimately, the Fen Treasure Hunt stands as a
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: modern legend, part adventure, part cautionary tale. It captured the
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: imagination of a generation and left behind a legacy that
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: continues to be debated and analyzed. Whether viewed as a
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: brilliant act of inspiration or a controversial experiment, it remains
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: one of the most remarkable treasure hunts in history, and
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: the story still attracts renewed interest, especially with the release
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: of the Netflix documentary series, Oh Golden Greed, The Hunt
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: for Fends Treasure Out.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: Oh, I will have to keep my eye out. Isn't
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: that so it's out? Now? Yeah?
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: I went.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: I Actually I meant to look and see because it
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: sounded like it was a more recent dog, which it
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: would have to be, right, because it's all about the
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: hunt and it was discovered in twenty twenty. Yeah, will
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: I I don't know this for sure, but I think
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: that I remember seeing something about it coming out in
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: like twenty twenty five, which is like, why do it
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: take you five years to make it? But whatever?
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: So Golden Greed? Is that what you said?
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: Ensure? Because we also watched a good documentary on Netflix.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, I can't remember what it was called
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: Death and Murder and Monica or wait that lady. At
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: first we were like we love her, and then by
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: the n we're like, she's problematic. Spoiler alert. Oh sorry,
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: you don't know what lady?
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: You don't even know a lady?
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: No, But once I know, I'll probably know. Okay, well,
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: it's definitely out gold and Greed, the Hunt for Friends
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: Treasure is it's been out since twenty twenty five. There's
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: three three episodes. Okay, we'll have to watch these characters
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: look a little. Oh but it's gonna be interesting. Yeah,
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: and I'll think I might have to get Netflix.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: Wow, all right, are we do in some Taro?
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: I can't wait. I love Taro. It's Northwest tarot nice.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: I wonder what we're going to get the brand new
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: They look brand new? No, they're pretty you use them.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: They're pretty.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: It takes such good care of them. And they've just
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: gotten lucky because whenever we've accidentally spilled wine on the desk,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: they have not been in striking just this.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: Good way because they're blessed, yea blessed them.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, I haven't.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: Touched these in so long? How are you? I missed you?
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: My hands are sweaty. Who wants to touch them?
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: Next?
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Just tell me, like in like what vicinity are you
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: feeling like.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: Over the middle right where you're your your pointer finger
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: is your index finger? Yeah? That one interesting? Okay, okay,
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: It's not a bear. It's not a be a bear
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: in the den.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: It is a very like very spark salamanders or something.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: It's eight of cups. That was I love. Your cards
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: are just beautiful. They're really pretty. Those look like it
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: could be.
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: Well, I was goot to say, these are golden cups
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: the treasure and and if you're out in the desert,
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: if that was a heel of monster.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: It isn't like in a river or something. It looks
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: like some water.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Well one if you guys just google, did Forrest ben
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: die by suicide?
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Do we have to know? Is it in the card.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Oh oh, that is interesting. No, Forrest Ben did not
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: die by suicide. Okay.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: The author and art dealer died by natural causes at
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: his home in Santa Fe, New Mexico, September seventh, twenty twenty,
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: at the age of nine zero. Okay, wow, okay, that's good.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: He died of old. I was like, damn, that was
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: that's many birthdays.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: I just like, part of me was like, this could
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: be really important to the story, like I should into
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: whether or not he died by But part of me
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: was like, he was a cancer survivor. It's just too
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: sad to think about them. After his treasure is discovered,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: then it's like, oh, it put him over the edge
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: and he died by.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Well, I was thinking like maybe if it came back
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: is what I was thinking, Like, if his cancer came
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: back or something.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: True. That again, yeah, will go through my head.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Some of these heint nobody had time for that.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: I'm good, which is very sad, but it happens a lot.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Eight of cups. Our keywords are turning away, cutting, losses, decline, dejection,
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: and seriousness.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: This card often pictures a person with his or her
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: back to us. Walking away. Sometimes a waning moon overhead
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: symbolizes decrease when the aid of cups appears. A situation
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: has become untied and you have decided to turn your
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: back on.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: It, like leaving a treasure and walking away, letting it,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: or like finally giving up on the hoax, maybe making
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: up somebody finding your treasure.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: My God, Shay, I need you to believe in Sorry,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: right now, you must strike out in another direction. I
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: feel like this could almost be symbolic of the people
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: that were.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Following Oh yeah, you know, searching.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, So our interpretation says you wish things had turned
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: out differently, but you can't salvage a matter, and you
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: realize you must abandon it. Abandon it. It's time to
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: let go and get out of this situation that has
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: failed despite your best efforts. Move ahead with determination, find
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: a new direction, and learn from your experience.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna guess I could be a treasure hunter, being like,
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: all right, I've been out here for three weeks about it.
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go home for a while. And this
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: whole time that was popped in my head is our
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: conversation we had before we even recorded.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: About our podcast.
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: Oh I do.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: We talk about Yeah, find a new direction.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: It was going to be it works. Pay cards, We said,
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: this is not a personal reading. Yeah, cards do with
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: cards do?
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: They do.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: In a reading about money, an investment hasn't paid off,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: or you've lost money through no fault of your own,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: except perhaps not seeing things accurately, not.
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: Reading the riddle right r get to the bare den,
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: the right bear den. That's right, they went to the
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: wrong one. Cut your losses and conserve your resources. If
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: the reading is about your job, the aid of cups
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: may recommend pouring your heart and soul into an endeavor.
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: Don't let distractions throw you off course. Sometimes this card
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: advice is leaving a job that no longer interests you.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: In a reading about love, this card can mean ending
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: a relationship that's lost its spark. Conversely, it may show
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: you getting serious about a partnership, giving it your all.
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: You're no longer interested in casual flings. And there's an
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: extra excerpt. WHOA, that's interesting. What it is? It is?
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: What it is.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: When you most feel like holding on to something, it
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: is usually the best time to let go. And that
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: is from a happy pocket full of money.
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's interesting. Wow.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Maybe you know, I feel like the cards were picking
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: up a vibe from the episode and maybe some other
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: things interesting. Okay, should I read this little poem?
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: It's a poem.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: It goes with it. Actually, I don't know if it's
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: a poem. I just like to call them poems.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: I mean they do kind of read like little poems.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: Those are northern alligator lizards, by the way.
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: Wah oh.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: The keywords are walking away, abandonment, disappointment, leaving something behind,
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: and moving on. So very similar to what was in
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: the book. The alligator lizard shed her past self like
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: a ghost behind her.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: That skin had served her well. It had gotten her
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: through plenty of scrapes and taken quite a few in
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: the process. It had camouflaged her against the forest floor,
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: protecting her from sharp eyed hawks. It had insulated her
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: as she basked on the sun dappled stones. But now
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: it felt tight, it felt restrictive. She itched to be
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: rid of it. She had outgrown it, and so she
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: stepped out of it, cast it aside. It no longer
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: served her. She moved on, more vulnerable to the thorns
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: and needles around her, but no longer constrained.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: By who she used to be interesting, that was a collective.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: So that's her.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: Skin left behind in the car.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: Oh god.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: It has a very Southwest vibe in a way. Yeah,
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: it does.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting because he lived in Santa Fe.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: It reminds me of like him shedding his treasure and
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: leaving it behind for someone else to find while he
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: moved on.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really interesting point.
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe four podcasters like the Shepherd the way they're doing. Yeah,
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: any thoughts, any other things. It was a good story.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: It was a good story. It's a great story.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: And I love the tarot piece. I love it.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: That's always.
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: Have a day and see it down the rabbit hole.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: There's my ear suffocate during yeahs. Yeah, well, I know
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: you're you don't breathe your ears. I don't know if
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: you know this the skin does. Maybe you don't skin breathe.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: I know you're a healthcare professional at Allience, so I
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: can confirm skin breathe and it is not breathing. She's
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: got to get the air flow between the ears, because
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: you know, yeah, air just the problem is I've got
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: too much in there blocking the flow. Yeah. Wait, are
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: you saying that there's only air in between that's what
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: I imagine. I imagine that the two headphones on is
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: keeping the air from moving directly through her head because
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: there's nothing in there.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: That's exactly. I was like, is this going to roll over?
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Everyone said that's fine, I don't need to put it.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: And Jody said, no, I'm coming up with a totally
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: time I have the other answer, there's too much brain.
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: She was like, mashing it out her.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Well, then you should be happy to have mine to
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: keep it from leaking out. Brainal leakage, leakage