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A.I. Agent Bank Run Incoming?🔥Liquid CEO Interview · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The bank's worst nightmare is underway, and that is deposit flight.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You heard it right here, guys. The only problem is
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: it may not be coming from humans. We may see
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: an AI agent bank run coming into the market, and
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: I'll explain that and everything else.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: With a special guest.
• 0:15
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• 0:53
  Speaker 1: So make sure and check it out. Tell them we
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: sent you. Let's just get started. I want to start
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: with this article right here. It says BlackRock says AI
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: agents could become crypto's next demand engine. And this is
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: something that we've been watching for quite some time. And
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: it is one of the things that I think starts
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: to lend into a handful of platforms. One of the
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: platforms we follow a lot is Liquid. So I want
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: to bring in Franklin Wang. He's been on the show before.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Franklin, how are you?
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: I'm doing great. Nice to see you, Paul.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: So let's get into a couple of things. I want
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: to go over to liquid perps. If you look at
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: the liquid perp side of things, you're seeing an absolute
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: move on volume per volume up to 253 mil right there. Franklin,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: what is driving this right now?
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: It's really a culmination of all of our efforts over
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: the last few months, I think. One is that with Co-Invest,
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: we launched a product, Co-Invest, and it's made our product
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: way more accessible to AI agents because it literally lets
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: AI agents trade on Liquid. This is the side effect
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: of making the product extremely visible to AI search engines.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: So if you look up Liquid, all the AIs now
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: know what Liquid is.
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: Some of my friends told me when they look up
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: the word Liquid on Google, it's actually their first search result.
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: It's not Wikipedia for the state of matter or area Webster.
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: It's actually Liquid. Our product is the first search result
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: for the word liquid. Just worked really hard on the
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: go-to-market side, gotten a bunch of partnerships with some really,
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: really influential people. Diligent Plain or Michael Secand, a lot
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: of great partnerships and many, many more to come.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the key here, you put it in
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: this tweet, financial industry makes a lot of money from
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: you knowing less than it does. I would agree with
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: that 100%. This, of course, is starting to shift quite
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: a bit. Obviously, AI agents may be the balancing point
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: on this. The further point down to your tweet right
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: there was that this was an interesting statement by a
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: chief economist at Apollo. Agents could cause a bank run
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: by sweeping household cash into accounts paying 3% to 5%
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: yield versus the 0.1% national.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: So if that were to happen, this would be.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: An absolute mind boggle, I think, for the banks because
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: they weren't expecting this to be a deposit flight, they
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: were expecting it to come from crypto, I guess in
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: one way it might be. But when you look at,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: do you think that could happen? Do you think we
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: could see an AI agent bank run?
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: I think it's totally plausible.
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: Look, I think, as I said, the financial industry makes
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: money because it knows more than you do, but it
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: doesn't know more than AI. It can't outsmart an AI, right?
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: Put your money in a bank. By default, they keep
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: the interest on it and don't give you anything, right?
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: And that's how most banks make money.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Do you think this is going to take time for
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: the average person to go out there and deploy an
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: agent and say, hey, go find me a better deal
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: on my money, and then let's go move this money around?
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: I think they might ask Muse, right? Or whatever AI agent, like, hey,
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: go make me money. And it'll be like, hey, you're
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: keeping money in a checking account. You should move it
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: into a money market fund.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: How many people ask the AI, make money for me?
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: I think a lot of people will ask them this question.
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: We're certainly seeing a huge explosion. And to give you
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: some stats, in the past, it took us about two
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: or three months for CoInvest to be invoked.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: A million times. It was invoked a million times in
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: the last three days.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: So that is the, I think the key here is
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: once people get a taste of this and they understand it,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: it really can do something for them in terms of
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: an agent, an active agent. And now you have, and
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: we'll talk about Muse in a second, because Muse is
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: now getting out on the.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Front of this being, you know, obviously launched by Meta.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: This will be maybe one of the biggest onboarding events
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: that we have seen in AI to date. But I
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: want to showcase this, and that is that OpenAI is
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: PAWS training again after its agents went poking around the SEC.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: These were government websites. And this is something that we're
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: seeing a little bit more of. Hester Pierce, remember, she's
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: submitting her resignation and she has been on the sidelines
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: something that I am very keen to and that is
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: KYC and this is the problem and I want to
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: present this to you so this was in reference to
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Muse which went out and handed his face this guy's
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Facebook marketplace address basically to where They were out there
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: putting something out on Facebook Marketplace, trying to go in
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: and get a good price.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Muse went out, did it.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Ended up finding the individual's address. When you think about
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: just the side of the new issue facing KYC and
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: where Hester Pierce is talking about is that this essentially
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: needs to be abolished in the sense that we need
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: none of this personal data out there to where these
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: agents can get access to it.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: What are your thoughts there on that? You think she's right?
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: You've made a lot of points there.
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: I think that I agree that KYC in general is
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: a little bit dangerous to rely on, especially in today's
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: day and age. A lot of companies will ask you
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: for an ID, your social security number, your phone number,
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: your name. And in today's day and age, obviously, there's
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: a lot of hacks happening by these AI agents because
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: these AI agents can just go and find things and
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: they can potentially steal your data.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: You guys have probably seen all these hacks.
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: There's a Revolut hack recently where all the KYC data
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: was leaked to some people who hacked the Italian government's
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: police department. The Italian government's police department was hacked by
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: some people, and then they asked Revolut for some customer
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: data so that they could do an investigation. But then
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: it turns out all the data was stolen, and that
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: was not the Italian police department. As with AI, there's
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: a lot more cyber risk now, and I think having
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: KYC stored is a really big risk because it could
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: easily be stolen. I think you should assume that almost
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: any data you submit has a chance of being stolen.
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: I think that's entirely reasonable.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah. Well, that's the concern is it kind of
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: creates the case for zero knowledge proofs. And Pierce has
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: kind of touched on this multiple times. We're going to
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: try to get her on the show to talk about this.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Do you think that, first of all, do you think
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: that Liquid would ever, you know, onboard or switch to
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: zero knowledge for KYC?
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: This is really interesting because zero-knowledge proofs were actually my
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: introduction into crypto. This is actually a topic very near
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: and dear to my heart. Zero-knowledge proofs could absolutely be
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: used to do KYC without requiring any data to be stored.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: That's kind of the idea.
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: And then you can imagine a world in which you
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: kind of just show a barcode on your ID, and
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: that's the only thing being sent in. And if that
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: barcode is stolen by someone, they don't know.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: What to do with it, right?
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: They can't go impersonate you. But we can check that
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: it's a real barcode. That's essentially the idea of a.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: Zero knowledge proof.
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: Um, we've generally tried very hard to minimize the amount
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: of KYC to really reduce the onboarding friction for new users.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: And also, cause it's just the right thing to do.
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: Like, I don't want my data, like I can't guarantee that,
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: you know, the data doesn't get stolen. No one can, right.
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: Not even Revolut can. So generally don't do much KYC
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: in general. Like if you deposit with crypto, there's no
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: KYC involved. That's generally the most, that's the most recommended
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: way to use liquid. You only need KYC for onboarding
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: from your state bank account.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: And there we have generally been very hard to use
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: as less as possible.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: But what is going to stop Liquid's AI, for instance,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: to do something like what Meta's Muse did with someone's
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: personal information, except now with my money?
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: Well, essentially the way Co-Invest works, which is the recommended
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: product for new users, is that it only takes financial
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: actions by asking you. It never does anything proactively. In
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: order to use it proactively, you have to do some
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: very complicated setup. And that's only really for developers and
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: over time, maybe more people. But we definitely recognize that
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: while I think AI agents are clearly the future, they're
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: not really the present.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: And when you build products, you have to build products
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: for the present.
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: So the print, the default co-invest mode only takes actions
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: with your confirmation.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: Like crypto is designed to be programmable.
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: The financial system is kind of like all their technology
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: is kind of like wrapping very old things.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: But crypto is kind of made for the 21st century, right?
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: It was made in this century.
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: So if you want to use AI to manage your money,
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: crypto is by far the most natural way to do it.
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: And I think you don't see, I think crypto by
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: far makes the most sense for like an AI for
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: finance app.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Frank, I'm looking at this right here, and it's an
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: interesting statement. AI agents are becoming a major problem for commerce,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: and the agent market is set to exceed $ 53 billion
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: by 2030. That's pretty significant when you look at the
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: likelihood of this even being wrong, because even Stripe reported
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: like 70% of its commands are using access data now
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: from AI agents. So there's the numbers right there to
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: $ 53 billion.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: This, I think, might be under.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Estimating the real growth here. Do you think that this
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: simulation of growth is underserved right now in terms of
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: real estimates in basically the next three to four years?
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: So generally these economists will look at a year over
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: year growth metric and try to extrapolate that into the future.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: Think about last year. I don't think anyone was really
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: talking about AI agents.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: This year, AI agents are the only thing people are
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: talking about. Those numbers, I think, are based on like
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: pretty outdated data. I think they generally understate things, right?
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: Like I was mentioning this before the show, like Co-Invest
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: took about three months to get invoked a million times.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: It's been invoked a million times in the last three days.
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: That is not like 50% year over year growth.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: It's a little irresponsible to try to extrapolate that.
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: That's roughly 1000x year over year growth. I don't think
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: we can maintain that forever. Pretty soon, if that's the case,
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: like co-invest will literally be the only word in the dictionary.
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: I think that that's definitely underestimating things. I think that
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: as these things go forward, effects tend to snowball, right?
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: I was at Stripe's developer conference earlier this year, actually.
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: I asked them, what do you guys think about agentic commerce?
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: They were like, I don't know. No one's really using
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: it yet right now. That was five months ago, five
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: months ago.
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: And now AI agents are running rampant and making things happen.
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: I think we're clearly in the very, very early innings
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: of agentic commerce taking off.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: I'm going to agree with that. I think we are
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: in the early, maybe pregame. You look at X402 settlements.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: These were flat, only 41 million since April. So when
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: you look at that, is the agent economy even real yet?
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: Or.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Is it crypto's time to shine or not?
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, this seems like something that is a great
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: opportunity for crypto to seize, but if it doesn't, could
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: this be done without crypto in the future?
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so X402 is one very particular payments structure, right,
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: that uses stablecoins.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of the... When it came out, like,
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: a lot of people were talking about X402 at the
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: beginning of the year.
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: I don't think that those numbers are really indicative of much. Like,
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: there was just a lot of... Whenever people are trying to, like,
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: you know, raise money, they sometimes will randomly send money
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: back and forth repeatedly to make it appear that there's
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: a lot more activity.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: There's, like, wash.
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: This is, like, wash trading, wash paying. Wash paying is
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: even easier to, like.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: You can just.
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: Like if you're an AI agent and another AI agent,
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: you can have them pay each other like, you know,
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: billions of times a day, right?
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: I don't think that number really means much.
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: I believe that things in crypto can succeed because they
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: sort of make more sense. They can serve the entire audience.
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: But definitely say Muse is built on it. or like
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: Instinct and Muse are both built on credit cards. So
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: definitely I agree that it can kind of be done
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: without crypto. I believe that it will be done with
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: crypto because that's the easiest way that you can like
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: serve the world.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think your point is right in the sense
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: that the flexibility of what crypto has to offer I
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: want to go over to Coinbase because they filed for
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: US stock perps on Apple and Tesla and Nvidia. And this,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: of course, gets its stock up 12%. Do you think
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Coinbase perps is going to be a success or you
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: think this one's going to be a flop?
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: What do you think?
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: I have great respect for what the Coinbase team has done.
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: It does not seem that the perps product is reaching
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: a lot of adoption. Yeah. I think that they're constrained
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: by a lot of arcane rules that aren't really their fault.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: But for example, on Coinbase, I think when you start
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: buying stock perps, it'll ask you to express it in
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: units of contracts. And I think by the time you're saying,
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: I want to buy contracts of shares, I think that's
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: just a little too confusing. That's a requirement, I think,
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: by the CFTC that requires them to use the word
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: contracts everywhere.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: I think that just makes the experience too confusing.
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm kind of in agreement with that in the
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: sense that they have to be able to hit a
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: home run with this. And sometimes Coinbase is usually a
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: little late to the game. I get it that they're
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: a publicly traded company. Development takes time on this. But
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: they do have distribution, which is one of the things
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: that someone like a Robinhood has been able to kind of.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Accelerate on that.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: But Coinbase's BaseApp, Perps, and also Liquid both run on HyperLiquid.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of curious.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Is Hyperliquid becoming everyone's backend here?
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: Well, Coinbase perps are not built on Hyperliquid.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: The base app.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: The base app is built on Hyperliquid. Last I checked,
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: its usage is negligible. Coinbase's app has a reasonable amount
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: of usage. Base's app does not. I think Hyperliquid makes
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: sense as a backend. I will say that we use
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: many backends, not just Hyperliquid. Our users can get the
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: best possible price, right?
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: What are some of the other backends you're using?
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: We're using Lighter. We're using Ostium.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Which one are performing better for you right now? Is
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: it still hyperliquid for the most part?
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: For small trades and even medium-sized trades and even some
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: larger trades, I think lighter is much better performing.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: The fees are much lower.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: All right, so speaking of that, talking about trades, you
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: did a 10 for 10 here. 10 times in a
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: row on up-downs on liquid. First of all, explain this
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: to our audience because I'm not sure people understand how
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: this works.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: On Liquid itself.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: For those who have not tried Liquid, just get over
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: to Liquid Trading and can learn a little bit more
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: But how did you do this? What was the process?
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: It's my pleasure.
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: So on Liquid, we now have prediction markets. So you
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: can bet on, say, sports games, or you can bet
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: on whether Bitcoin is going up or down.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: Very simple.
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: And one issue with prediction markets is that in their infancy,
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: it's a little bit difficult to find liquidity. So I
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: wrote some algorithm to generate some liquidity, mostly for fun.
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: These are all very small numbers, as you can see.
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: This lets you trade on liquid and have access to
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: better liquidity. So if you want to bet on Bitcoin
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: going up or down, the slippage is very low.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Our prediction market- This was on like a 15-minute time
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: frame though, right?
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: These were 15 minutes. Depending on whether Bitcoin goes up
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: or down in a 15-minute time frame. So from 8
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: to 8.15 or 8.15 to 8.30. Yeah.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: So what's the average user's win rate right now?
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Do you guys publish that?
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: I think it's very close to 50-50, actually.
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: So if you're more confident in your estimation of the
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: probability it goes up, you might quote tighter.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: Otherwise, you'll quote wider.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Here it is on Polymarket.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: The 15-minute crypto updowns are now live on Polymarket.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: This, of course, running within. So that in itself is
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: a pretty big deal.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know. This may become a pretty big edge,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: I think, for some of the traders out there. going
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: into this. I'm looking at your website also. Put your
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: USDC to work right here. I can do this with Gauntlet.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: So I've got a nice little vault here at 2.47%.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: If it's only paying that versus a money market, would
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: these AI agents, your own AI agents, end up going
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: out and trying to find something better?
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: That's the thing, right?
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: Like, I think there's kind of something I wanted to
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: touch on earlier that I didn't quite get to mention,
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: which is that if you're just doing shopping, a credit
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: card is good enough for shopping, right? But if you're
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: trying to manage your whole financial life with AI, then
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: credit cards are not going to cut it. Like credit
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: cards are great. You don't get paid through your credit card, right?
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: I think the idea here is that you do get
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: higher nominal APYs if you put it in some banks, right?
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: But there are a lot of restrictions on how you
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: can withdraw that money. They might perform KYC checks. They
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: might perform like, you know, they might require you to
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: maintain a minimum account balance. You might have to pay
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: withdrawal fees. There are all these things, right? In crypto,
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: when you get yield, the money is real. Like that
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: is real yield. Like also there are certain tax advantages
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: to using our yield. If you keep money in a
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: money market fund, your interest is taxed as ordinary income, right?
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: You can kind of view them as like LP interest
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: in something, right? And LP interests are kind of subject
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: to capital gains, not ordinary income.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: So if you have Robinhood out there doing this right now,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: their vault has been paying, I don't know how long
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: they're going to keep this, but they have a 7%
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: vault out there today, which has a lot of the
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: same similarities. Again, wouldn't an agent go out and try
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: to seek that?
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: I think it's plausible.
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: I think in order to sign up for Robinhood, I've
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: talked to some of my friends who've been trying to
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: get the 7%.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: They haven't been able to get it. I'm not really
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: sure why.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: You got to be a gold member.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, gold members. But I think they are gold members.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: OK, wait a minute. My guys are telling me something else.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think it's not available to everybody.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: There's some limitations on the hardware. There's also some limitations
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: on the account. So I get it. But I guess
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: to the to your point is that when you look
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: at the masses, this is probably going to be a
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: better opportunity out there than even what may be going
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: out there. What would be some of the abilities for
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: this to increase if, in fact, we saw rate reductions
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: coming out of the Fed?
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: Generally speaking, these vaults look at DeFi yield, and generally,
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: they park money at It's kind of similar to a
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: wealth front, right?
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: So wealth essentially looks.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: For whichever bank gives it the highest incentive to deposit
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: and then puts the money there. That's exactly what this
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: is doing, except it's looking only for on-chain sources of yield.
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: So it looks at things like Aave, looks at things
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: like Morpho, where it can like lend money out and
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: obtain yield.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Let's jump over to something you and I have talked
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: about before, and that is Pokemon cards on liquid and trading.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: And the reason I say that, I bring this up,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: this is I'm just showing a collector crypt tweet right here.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: This is in reference to Collector Crypt. RWA is now
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: available on Robinhood Chain. Remember, this is available now on
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Solana and exploding in terms of growth. So now it's
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: coming into Robinhood Chain. Is this something that maybe Liquid
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: would consider down the line?
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: The road?
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: I think it could definitely be interesting.
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: I think it's an interesting way to get people interested
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: into finance, right? Like if you're a kid with a
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: bunch of Pokemon cards, you can like deposit them into
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: Liquid and then start trading with it. Like you can
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: convert your Pokemon cards into stocks. That's not so easy
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: to do as far as I can tell, right? Do
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: you know a way to do that?
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Granted, the problem is getting these graded, the timeline, all
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: those kind of things where you get into a real
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: world asset.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Those are a little bit of the challenge.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: But the fact that it is growing at scale right now,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: I think it's just a matter of time before we
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: see this come on. And it's going to increase in
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: terms of speed to market. And if you think about it,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: look at Solana. This is right now continuing to dominate
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: all chains in app revenue. Part of that is one
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: of the reasons. and they generated 49, almost 50 million
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: last week. So it's the highest weekly total since 2025.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Look at that.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: I'm going to blow this chart up for you guys.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: That's Solana, Hyperliquid right behind it, then Ethereum. And it's
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Solana by a long ways right now in terms of
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: volume and revenue. So this is a great opportunity for
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: you guys. And I think for many others that are
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: out there thinking about this, because it's going to be huge.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: For sure. We're definitely working on a lot of Solana features.
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: We're definitely working on some unannounced features with Solana right now.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: You got Pump Fun overtaking Hyperliquid, another reason right there.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: This is in the seven-day revenue, now ranks number three overall.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: And then that right there, this was a big one,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: which is where FOMO is now the fastest growing startup
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: on X by follower growth, granted, but this is just
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: over the last 90 days. And this was just put
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: out there. So I don't know, is the hype run over?
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Would you long it or short it right now?
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: Well, I don't want to give financial advice. I think
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: it's roughly fair. I think on one hand, the Hyperliquid
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: team kind of works extremely hard to make hype go up.
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: It's extremely shareholder friendly in a way you usually see
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: more out of public companies, less so than crypto companies.
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: But I think there definitely is a lot of competition
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: in the space.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: Fundamentally, these products....
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: One thing with AI agents is that they generally go
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: for wherever the fees are lowest, right? They don't care
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: about whichever is more convenient. And as such, it might
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: be very hard to continue charging fees in the long term.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: That doesn't apply to just hyperliquid. That kind of applies
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: to everything, right?
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: But one thing we're worried about is can hyperliquid maintain
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: its moat in a world where AI agents and people
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: are always looking for the lowest fees?
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Well, it dropped four and a half percent. This was
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: following the Binance listing on Hyperliquid. So be on the
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: lookout right there. All right, Franklin, at the beginning of
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: the show, we were trying to do an up-down with you.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: It's probably run its course right now. Can you show
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: me a little bit of where it is right now
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: as we're ending this episode?
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Let's take a look.
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: Absolutely. So essentially what's going on here is that since
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: it's a market-making bot, it doesn't have a directional view,
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: so it'll happily go up or down, right?
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: And so here we can see that it's made about $ 0. 65.
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: As you can see, the price is updating very fast,
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: but it's made money on both the up contract and
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: the down contract. So it's up on both of these,
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: which means it's made money overall. It's made about $ 2.
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: This is a relatively low volume period for up-downs right now.
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: Since it's doing market making, it's entering up at like 52%.
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: It's entering down at 36%. Those obviously add up to
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: a lot less than 100%. So that ends up meaning
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: it's earned a lot of money. If you can do
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: that at greater scale, and hopefully there will be more
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: liquidity and more interest in these products, it should continue
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: to scale.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, Franklin.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Well, that's a good example of, I think, what you
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: guys are doing at Liquid. And to me, it's intriguing
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: because I think we're going to see more platforms like
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: this coming to market. more agentic trading is going to
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: be happening. The agents are going to start flowing in
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: a way that, especially with Muse, if it's successful in
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: kind of bringing forth the masses, which it may very
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: well be, it could launch into the more, I think,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: I won't say complicated, but the more sophisticated agents and
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: how they'll be able to do things for you, like
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: crypto trading or bank and funds management, all sorts of things.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: But it could change the market very quickly, including an
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: AI bank agent run that could be happening. So we'll
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: be watching that one. Hey, Franklin, it's been good having
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: you back on the show. Thank you so much for
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: coming in. We appreciate it.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. Always a pleasure. See you.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: If you like this video, hit like and subscribe, drop
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: a comment down below and also join our free private
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: member group.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: The link is in the description.