Latest / Real Life Theology Podcast / Hard Conversations Require a High View of Scripture | Tina Wilson

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Hard Conversations Require a High View of Scripture | Tina Wilson · Real Life Theology Podcast

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  Welcome back everyone to the Real Life Theology Podcast. Today's episode features
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  Tina Wilson talking about how hard conversations require a high view of
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  Scripture. I hope you enjoy this episode.
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  Hello everyone. It's good to see you guys today. My name is Tina Wilson and
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  alongside my husband I am a church planter and a Bible teacher and I serve
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  my local church in many different capacities, and one of those is women's
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  ministry. So basically I am a ministry person. We have a lot of ministry people
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  here today, right? That's our primary audience, okay? Well I don't know about
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  you guys, but I feel like ministry oftentimes just revolves around hard
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  conversations, which is what we're here to talk about. How do we have these hard
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  conversations? If it's not my husband and I having to engage in a hard
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  conversation, then it's us coaching someone else about how to have a hard
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  conversation, or maybe we're mediating between a hard conversation in other
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  parties, or we're just prayerfully preparing for the next hard conversation
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  that we know we're going to have to have, right? So just show of hands in here, how
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  many people have had to engage in a hard conversation just in the last month?
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  Right, ministry people. The truth is if you didn't raise your hand you might be
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  avoiding the next hard conversation you know you need to have. Is that true? Maybe.
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  Well I want to give you just a couple snippets from hard conversations I've
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  had to have in just the last few months, and I'm sure you'll identify with many
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  of these. Here's one. Hey sister, did it occur to you that maybe the sermon
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  wasn't being directed at you, but the Holy Spirit was speaking to you through
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  the sermon, right? Or here's one. Hey friend, wouldn't it have been more
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  appropriate if you had an issue just to come and talk to me instead of going
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  around to lots of other people and gossiping about me? Here's one. Oh this
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  was hard. Hey man, did you ever consider how shunning a young girl along with
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  other women in the church could be damaging when she's someone you should
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  have been discipling? Here's one. If you've read Christian Convictions in the
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  Real Life Theology series you know this one. Hey family, just because we don't
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  agree on that one issue it doesn't mean we can't have fellowship together, right?
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  This was a hard one. My friends, maybe have you considered that the reason
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  you're experiencing this kind of grief and strife in your life is because
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  you're living in a way that Scripture says invites God's curses and not His
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  blessings. That's hard. And I'll tell you this has been one of the hardest ones
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  I've had to have recently. Listen, it's been trial by fire getting ready to come
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  and talk to you guys about this today, but here's one. Oh where is that family?
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  Well here's the thing. Our elders have encouraged them to go and find a new
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  church home where they can align with leadership and promote unity within this
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  church body. That's hard. So these are just some hard conversations I've been
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  having to deal with in ministry, and I've identified the thing that makes them so
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  hard is feelings. Because everyone in a hard conversation feels some kind of way,
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  right? Like when someone came and accused my husband of preaching sermons
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  that were targeting her, she felt offended, and I felt exasperated. Like
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  really? That's what you think about this? When someone went around our church and
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  gossiped about me and my family to multiple people, they felt justified, and
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  I felt hurt. And when an older woman in our church shamed a teenage girl, she
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  felt self-righteous, and the girl just felt embarrassed. And so here's the
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  problem with hard conversations. Get this. Feelings can get in front of facts
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  and cause fractures in the church family if we're not building on a solid
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  foundation that's going to keep the house from cracking. And that's the
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  foundation we're going to talk about. Because the more I have to have these
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  hard conversations, the sicker I get of the phrase, I just feel like. Because we
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  just become so ruled by feelings and hard conversations, and that doesn't need
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  to be the ruling factor. We have to consider one another's feelings,
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  certainly, right? Because that's an expression of love for one another. But
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  when feelings start to hinder realization of wrong and repentance
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  from sin, man, that's when we've got to throw off the emotion and seek the mind
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  of Christ so we can have these discussions. So let me just read to you
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  to open us up from the prophet Isaiah in chapter 55, starting in verse 8. God says,
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  For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares
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  the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than
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  your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. As the rain and the snow come
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  down from heaven and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it
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  bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the
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  eater, so is the word that goes out from my mouth that will not return to me
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  empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent
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  it. We know this. We don't naturally think, act, or respond in the way that
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  God would because we don't think like God, right? His thoughts are so much
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  higher. And yet we have his word so we can certainly know how God would think,
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  act, and respond. And in there we have all these instructions and examples for how
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  we should live and how we shouldn't live. And Jesus, in his word, set a powerful
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  example of how to let hard conversations be guided with a high view of Scripture.
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  And I want to dig into the Bible with you in this short time we have together
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  and look at this conversation that Jesus had. So on the very day that he
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  resurrected from death, we're in Luke 24, Jesus is walking down the road with two
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  disciples making a seven-mile journey on foot from Jerusalem down to the village
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  of Emmaus, and he engages a hard conversation with a couple of disciples.
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  They don't recognize him. They don't know that they're talking to Jesus. And so
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  here they are telling Jesus how their leader, who was a prophet, powerful in
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  word and deed, had been turned over to the elders and the chief priest, and he'd
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  been sentenced to death and crucified. And listen to what they say about him in
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  verse 21, but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel.
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  Now get the feelings that are being felt in this hard conversation. They're
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  grief-stricken, they're despondent, they're hopeless, right? This is hard. But
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  then they say this to Jesus, who they still don't recognize, verse 22.
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  In addition, some of our women amazed us. We went to the tomb early this morning,
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  but they didn't find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision
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  of angels who said he was alive. Then some of our companions went to the tomb
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  and found it just as the women had said, but they didn't see Jesus. So what are
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  they feeling now, right? Confused, maybe doubtful, maybe hopeful. There's just all
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  these feelings swirling around this hard conversation, and I want you to look at
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  what Jesus does. He cuts through the feelings, and he states the facts, but he
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  does not do it in the way that I would have ever expected. And maybe you
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  wouldn't have expected him to react this way either. Here's what he does in verse
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  25. He said to them, how foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the
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  prophets have spoken. Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then
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  enter glory? And beginning with Moses and the prophets, he explained to them what
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  was said in the scriptures concerning himself. Please don't miss what just
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  happened, okay? This is Jesus who is walking down the road with some
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  disciples who are telling them how Jesus is dead, all right? And this is the same
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  Jesus who had opened the eyes of physically blind people during his
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  ministry over the past three and a half years, and he certainly could have opened
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  the spiritual eyes of these guys with just a couple words, like maybe here, I am,
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  right? But that's not what he does. Do you see this? He elevates scripture. That's
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  the approach he takes. He has a hard conversation with a high view of
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  scripture, and he sets this example for us. Now I want you to think about the
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  hard conversations that you've had to have, because we're going to have some
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  discussion time to talk about those later. But all you ministry folks, I bet
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  if you are having hard conversations, they probably fall into one of three
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  categories. Hard conversations about lifestyle, about loss, and about doctrine.
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  So what does this look like? You're ministering to someone, and you have to
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  address a sin issue, where they're not walking rightly with the Lord, right?
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  That's a lifestyle conversation, and it's hard. You're walking in sin. That's hard
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  to say to someone. Or maybe it's a loss conversation, where you're having to
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  address a tragedy that someone who you're ministering to has experienced,
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  and then the faltering faith that sometimes comes with loss. Those are very
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  hard talks to have. Maybe it's a doctrine conversation, where someone you're
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  ministering to is understanding, interpreting, applying a biblical text in
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  a different way than you are, and you're seeking to find some unity with those,
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  and those are hard conversations. But here's what's so great about what Jesus
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  does here as he's walking down the road to Emmaus. He has this hard
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  conversation, and I think that there's an element of all three of these hard
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  conversations in this one discussion that Jesus has. I mean, think about it
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  like this. Is it a lifestyle conversation? Well, these guys are walking
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  with the Lord physically, but they're telling the Lord that the Lord is dead,
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  right? So they're not spiritually walking right with the Lord. It's absolutely a
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  loss conversation, because what they're mourning would be the greatest loss in
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  the history of humanity, if it were actually a loss and not a victory, right?
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  Is it a doctrine conversation? Well, certainly, because the women saw that the
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  tomb is empty, and it's the third day, and no one's having a party. So someone has
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  misinterpreted a biblical text and missed the whole point here, right? So
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  all three of these kinds of hard conversations Jesus is having all wrapped
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  up in this one seven-mile walk headed to Emmaus. And I want us to look at a couple
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  of points about how Jesus goes about this to guide our own hard conversations
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  that we engage in ministry. The first thing I want you to notice is that
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  Jesus' way is absolutely not the easy way, because what would the easy thing have
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  been to do? Ta-da! Here I am. Look, I'm alive. It's me. It's Jesus. And that is so
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  relevant, because I think that expecting and claiming or even blaming supernatural
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  revelation as an answer to a hard conversation has become a really common
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  tendency in our society today. Do you see that? If you don't get what I'm talking
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  about, I want to show you an example of it. We're gonna watch just a 30-second
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  video clip. Has anyone seen the show Kitchen Nightmares with Gordon Ramsay?
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  Right? Okay, if you haven't, here's basically what happens. MasterChef Gordon
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  Ramsay goes into restaurants, and he tells the kitchen staff, the restaurant
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  owner, your business is a mess, and you're serving the worst food I've ever eaten
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  in my life. So we're just gonna watch a short clip where he has done this
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  already, and I want you to watch the response of the restaurant owner to the
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  hard conversation that Gordon Ramsay is initiating. So watch this.
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  He said, how much garlic do you really put in this? And I said, who knows? And then he said, could you get the chicken any drier?
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  Chicken any drier. I disagree with what he had to say about my chicken
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  Carletta. I prayed for months for guidance, and my Carletta sauce is
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  inspired by God. I got inspired by a higher power. A higher power? God. God. I mean that.
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  God made the sauce. I mean, you can't all be there. That's stupid, right? But that's
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  relevant. Like, that's what people do. Let's get real, okay? God did not give
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  this man the sauce recipe. If he had taken the longer route, the harder route,
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  taking time to study Scripture and know what the Bible says, here's what he'd
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  know. That God acts in ways that glorify himself. So unless something about this
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  sauce recipe was intended to lift up Jesus Christ or reconcile people to God,
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  God didn't craft the dish. But there's a hard conversation being had, and instead
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  of engage it and do the work to fix what's going wrong, well I just had some
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  supernatural revelation that told me that that was right. But that's not the
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  example that Jesus set. But this is what we do when we attempt to bypass an
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  abiding commitment to the study of Scripture and all of Scripture, and just
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  claim this Holy Spirit revelation in order to engage a hard conversation.
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  That's not going to be fruitful if that's how we move into these kind of
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  things, because quite frankly, it's a cop-out. So that's number one, is that
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  Jesus' way isn't the easy way. And I want you to look at another thing about Jesus'
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  approach, is it's not the quick way. Let me read to you verse 27 one more time.
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  And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he explained to them what was
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  said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. So here's Jesus and Luke, and
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  he's gonna start in Exodus and just preach through, right? And he's going to
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  exegete the prophecies all the way from the Old Testament, and that's how he's
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  going to communicate truth about himself in this hard conversation. That's relevant,
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  because I think another error that's made often in hard conversations today
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  is we're just gonna throw a Scripture out with no context. And that's how we're
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  going to deal with it. We're having a lifestyle conversation. Hey man, you're
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  living in a way that is sinful, that is contrary to God's Word. What's the easy
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  no-context answer? Matthew 7 one. Do not judge, or you yourself will be judged,
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  right? Scripture with no context. Having a hard conversation about loss.
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  Where do we want to go? Oh, well, God won't give you more than you can handle.
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  What is that? 1 Corinthians 10 message version? Just a joke.
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  Hard conversation about doctrine. Well, what that means to me is, listen,
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  there's no Scripture we can even twist out of context to make that work.
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  That's just not how we interpret Scripture. Jesus goes all the way back to
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  Moses, and he relies on the authority of Scripture, and that's how he engages this
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  hard conversation. And that's the path that we need to take, all of Scripture
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  into account for every hard conversation that we're called to navigate in ministry.
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  We've got to pull back from the emotion, from all the feelings that make hard
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  conversations hard, and let the authority of Scripture rule. I want to close with
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  this one, what Paul says to Timothy. Somebody already said it earlier today.
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  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
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  correcting, and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly
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  equipped for every good work. I told you at the beginning,
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  I've had hard conversations. One was a good friend of mine. She said,
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  I think your husband's preaching sermons that target me. She's offended.
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  I'm exasperated that she's offended. But none of that matters.
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  It doesn't matter how we feel about it. It matters what the Bible says,
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  and what does Paul say? He says, hey, Timothy, hey, pastor, hey, minister,
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  all Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting,
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  and training in righteousness. Somebody's going to be offended,
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  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
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  And I want to tell you, that includes the good work of hard conversations. All right?
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  Thank you for listening to this episode on The Real Life Theology Podcast.
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  Stay tuned with Renew.org for more great content down the road.