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Transcript

Night Road by Kristin Hannah · Books and Box Office Besties

0:32
SPEAKER_02: Hello, and welcome to Books and Box Office Besties.
0:35
SPEAKER_02: I'm Wendy, and this is my co-host Kim.
0:38
SPEAKER_02: Hi, everybody.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: Before we start, we have a little bit of housekeeping to go over.
0:44
SPEAKER_02: We have our disclaimer.
0:46
SPEAKER_02: Books and Box Office Besties is all about entertainment, opinions, and lively conversation.
0:52
SPEAKER_02: Our views are our own, and everything discussed is meant for entertainment purposes only.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: Spoilers happen, strong opinions happen, and sometimes we absolutely agree to disagree.
1:03
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1:09
SPEAKER_02: Also, we're in the midst of creating our merchandise store, so please look for that shortly.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: We promise to have some really fun book lover merchandise.
1:18
SPEAKER_02: If you follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Books and Box Office Besties, you can find our updates and our latest books and movies that are going to be reviewed.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: And if you'd like to contact us, please give us a shout out at Books and BoxOffice Besties at gmail.com.
1:33
SPEAKER_02: Kim, do you have any housekeeping?
1:36
SPEAKER_02: No, at this point I don't.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: I think you covered it all.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: Then that's enough of the business.
1:41
SPEAKER_02: Let's get to some fun.
1:43
SPEAKER_02: Today we're going to be discussing Night Road, which is by Kristen Hanna.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: And again, there's going to be spoilers, but before we get to our book, I think Kim has a little surprise for us.
1:56
SPEAKER_03: Da-da! Okay, yes, kind of.
1:58
SPEAKER_03: Well, Wendy put me in the spot, so I guess I do.
2:00
SPEAKER_03: Couple podcasts back, Wendy and I were talking about um a book that she gave me.
2:07
SPEAKER_03: It's called Do Black Patent Leather Shoes Really Reflect Up?
2:11
SPEAKER_03: And she gave me that book when I was about 10 or 12.
2:14
SPEAKER_03: And all through these years, decades, I kind of felt guilty for not reading it.
2:18
SPEAKER_03: I mentioned it to Wendy, and what does she do?
2:20
SPEAKER_03: She finds this book that's currently out of print.
2:22
SPEAKER_03: How she did it, I don't know.
2:24
SPEAKER_03: Super sleuth.
2:25
SPEAKER_03: Anyways, so she got this book and I said, Oh, how wonderful.
2:28
SPEAKER_03: She goes, Well, now you have a chance to read it.
2:30
SPEAKER_03: Guess what?
2:30
SPEAKER_03: I had to read it.
2:32
SPEAKER_03: Uh but it was it was a good book.
2:35
SPEAKER_03: It was okay.
2:36
SPEAKER_03: It was it was interesting because um, well, oh, where do I start here?
2:41
SPEAKER_03: The book obviously is called Do Patent Leather Shoes Really Reflect Up?
2:44
SPEAKER_03: So, what does that kind of tell you?
2:46
SPEAKER_03: It's about a Catholic school.
2:48
SPEAKER_03: I never went to a Catholic school, so it was kind of interesting.
2:51
SPEAKER_03: Like, huh, that happened.
2:52
SPEAKER_03: A lot of corporal punishment there.
2:54
SPEAKER_03: Uh, glad I missed that one.
2:56
SPEAKER_03: But anyway, so let me talk a little bit about the author here.
3:00
SPEAKER_03: It was written by Mr.
3:01
SPEAKER_03: John R.
3:03
SPEAKER_03: Powers.
3:04
SPEAKER_03: Powers first wrote Do Pat and Leather Shoes Really Reflect Up, which it comically assessed the effects of his Catholic upbringing as a 1975 satirical novel.
3:16
SPEAKER_03: It was the second in what would become a trilogy of books about his, and I underline his here, experiencing experiences growing up in the neighborhood in the south side of Chicago.
3:31
SPEAKER_03: The book was adapted into a coming of age musical set in the 1950s.
3:36
SPEAKER_03: A hit, the musical ran for four and a half years, becoming the longest-running show in the city's history.
3:43
SPEAKER_03: It then broke house records during two runs in Philadelphia.
3:48
SPEAKER_03: However, in 1982, it made its way to Broadway.
3:53
SPEAKER_03: But unfortunately, his success ran out.
3:56
SPEAKER_03: It played on Broadway for only five performances.
4:00
SPEAKER_03: Mr.
4:00
SPEAKER_03: Powers was an American novelist, playwright, and motivational speaker.
4:05
SPEAKER_03: I've listened to a couple of his interviews and it made me laugh.
4:08
SPEAKER_03: He was a very funny and lighthearted person.
4:11
SPEAKER_03: I would tell you some of his jokes and comments, but I really couldn't do it justice.
4:17
SPEAKER_03: I can't even talk about him or say anything.
4:20
SPEAKER_03: I am stumbling on every other word that comes out of my mouth, but hey, we're besties, bear with me.
4:25
SPEAKER_03: I'm drinking something, I won't tell you what.
4:29
SPEAKER_03: Anyways, please do look him up on YouTube.
4:33
SPEAKER_03: He is a phenomenal motivational speaker.
4:36
SPEAKER_03: I know that's not what I'm here to talk about, but it's really something.
4:40
SPEAKER_03: So, do patent leather shoes really reflect up?
4:43
SPEAKER_03: You can say it is somewhat autobiographical.
4:48
SPEAKER_03: I'm glad I threw that disclaimer in there.
4:50
SPEAKER_03: Reflecting on his experiences.
4:52
SPEAKER_03: In the book, he creates characters out of a couple of people he knew in school.
4:57
SPEAKER_03: Some of these characters are probably people you knew growing up, or maybe you're one of the special characters.
5:03
SPEAKER_03: The main character of the book is Eddie Ryan.
5:07
SPEAKER_03: He is about to start school in eighth grade.
5:10
SPEAKER_03: Life is getting exciting and also comes with a little anxiety.
5:15
SPEAKER_03: Right before school starts, he notices a pimple on his face.
5:19
SPEAKER_03: What is a kid to do?
5:21
SPEAKER_03: Well, he does what he has seen his older sister do wash, wash, rewash, and apply cold cream.
5:29
SPEAKER_03: In the morning, you now have a nice clean pimple starry pocket.
5:33
SPEAKER_03: You yeah.
5:35
SPEAKER_03: So this is just the beginning and it just takes off from here.
5:39
SPEAKER_03: School starts and the stories start rolling in as he and his band of friends get the good, proper Catholic education.
5:49
SPEAKER_03: As someone who is not Catholic but very curious of what it was like to go to a Catholic school, I think I can say I was probably better off where I was.
5:58
SPEAKER_03: There seems to be a lot of corporal punishment in the Catholic school system that everybody just accepts.
6:06
SPEAKER_03: Strange.
6:07
SPEAKER_03: Okay, the book talks about learning how to fall in line, which brother hits the hardest, and when to watch your back, all in good humor.
6:17
SPEAKER_03: For someone who attended Catholic school, I think this book would resonate with you.
6:23
SPEAKER_03: Looking back on fond memories, of course.
6:26
SPEAKER_03: As you're reading this book, you have to keep in mind it is through the eyes of a young boy.
6:31
SPEAKER_03: His comments may not always have been appropriate or his line of questioning, but they even got me with a few chuckles here and there.
6:40
SPEAKER_03: As I read the book, I visualized, ready, happy days in Archie Bunker.
6:46
SPEAKER_03: I know I probably just lost some of my besties out there, but please stick with me here.
6:51
SPEAKER_03: It is interesting watching the main characters.
6:53
SPEAKER_03: Eddie Ryan starts connecting the dots with religion, life, girls, social events, and so forth.
7:02
SPEAKER_03: Given that Eddie was in an all-boys school and girls were taboo, he came to the conclusion that Catholics are still holding a grudge against Eve.
7:13
SPEAKER_03: As Eddie continues to move up the Catholic educational system, his antics were just as comical.
7:20
SPEAKER_03: Handing out towels in the locker room, dealing with priests a little senile, going to a school dance, dating, making out rules written by the priest, dating the most beautiful girl with nothing between her ears and no personality, asking your buddy to ask out her best friend so she'll go out with you, and finally making it to graduation.
7:49
SPEAKER_03: Mr.
7:49
SPEAKER_03: Powers said there are two things you remember about a book, the beginning and the end.
7:55
SPEAKER_03: This is especially true with this book.
7:57
SPEAKER_03: During graduation, when they were calling out the names, Eddie would comment about what happened to them after graduation.
8:04
SPEAKER_03: Example, Mary Lou, now hairdresser, Sandy Smith, married to John Doe, William Johnson, a lawyer, Dean Smith, engineer, and then Ernest Cogan.
8:18
SPEAKER_03: He went and saw a John Wayne War movie.
8:21
SPEAKER_03: The next day he signed up to join the Marines.
8:24
SPEAKER_03: And less than a week after he landed in Vietnam, he stepped on a landmined and was sent home in a coffin.
8:33
SPEAKER_03: Yes, your best memories are school.
8:36
SPEAKER_03: You could only be young and carefree once.
8:38
SPEAKER_03: I believe that was the message that Mr.
8:41
SPEAKER_03: Powers was trying to send everybody.
8:45
SPEAKER_03: So keep in mind that this book, and I know I've lost a lot of besties, reminded me of Happy Days and a little bit of Archie Bunker.
8:57
SPEAKER_03: You don't really have to Google him.
8:59
SPEAKER_03: It's not politically correct, you can say.
9:01
SPEAKER_03: But, anyways, so that is really the book.
9:05
SPEAKER_03: Actually, I was more interested in the author than the book itself, but I do have some questions because, like I said, I'm not Catholic.
9:11
SPEAKER_03: I did not go to a Catholic school.
9:13
SPEAKER_03: And right in front of me, I have Wendy, who went to a Catholic school.
9:17
SPEAKER_03: And we have a true and false game to play here.
9:20
SPEAKER_03: Okay, you got three seconds to answer.
9:23
SPEAKER_03: True, false, yes or no.
9:25
SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
9:27
SPEAKER_03: So you can't think about it.
9:28
SPEAKER_03: You can't think about it.
9:29
SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
9:30
SPEAKER_03: Did you like your Catholic education?
9:32
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
9:33
SPEAKER_03: Beep! Okay, pretty good, pretty good.
9:35
SPEAKER_03: You almost didn't make a timer.
9:37
SPEAKER_03: Uh did it ground your religious foundation?
9:41
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
9:42
SPEAKER_03: Oh, very good, very good.
9:43
SPEAKER_03: It didn't do that to my dad.
9:44
SPEAKER_03: He was from the old old school.
9:46
SPEAKER_03: Did nuns actually hit?
9:48
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
9:50
SPEAKER_03: Oh, wow.
9:51
SPEAKER_03: In my day, yes.
9:53
SPEAKER_02: How'd they hit you?
9:55
SPEAKER_02: Or they just pull you up by your arm and smack you on the butt.
10:01
SPEAKER_02: And that did happen to me a couple times when I was I was laughing and I wasn't paying attention.
10:07
SPEAKER_02: I was talking to the boy next to me.
10:10
SPEAKER_02: I probably deserved it.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: It didn't really hurt.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it hurt my pride more than anything.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: You know, you're it's so embarrassing.
10:17
SPEAKER_02: I think that's what it is.
10:18
SPEAKER_02: It's embarrassing.
10:20
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, they they hit.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: They hit.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:24
SPEAKER_02: Well, okay.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: But they were also, let me say, they were also very loving, too.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's hard to explain, but it was actually a very loving, nurturing, nurturing atmosphere that I was raised in.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: And I never told my parents about being hit because if you told your parents about being hit, they you'd probably end up getting hit again.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: They'd be like, well, why were they hitting you?
10:49
SPEAKER_02: You know?
10:50
SPEAKER_02: You probably deserved it.
10:52
SPEAKER_03: So I I want to mention that I was Googling the author, and I was Googling the book and everything I could outside of the book, too.
11:00
SPEAKER_03: And I come across a Facebook group on Black Patent Mother Shoes.
11:04
SPEAKER_03: And they were talking about this book and the comments that people made.
11:08
SPEAKER_03: Like one person said, Why don't you go home and tell your parents?
11:11
SPEAKER_03: And it's like, hey, I got hit once.
11:13
SPEAKER_03: I didn't want to get beat twice.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:19
SPEAKER_02: But I do want to stress it was a very loving, nurturing answer.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: And I really only have fond, good memories of it.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: And I know a few scars.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: That's not everybody's memory, but that was my memory.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: But I have a question for you after reading this book.
11:32
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: Yes, go ahead.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: If if since I read it when I was like eight or nine, if nine-year-old Kim read the book, would she have liked it?
11:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:42
SPEAKER_03: I really think I would have, because A, I would have, I would have been like, oh, so that's what they do.
11:46
SPEAKER_03: If you're a boy, you go to all boys' school.
11:48
SPEAKER_03: If you're a girl, you have to go to all girls' school.
11:50
SPEAKER_02: But I I went to, you know, it was boys and girls in my school.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: So well, the book that I read was Boys and Girls.
11:56
SPEAKER_02: Much experience.
11:58
SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, I think that I would have liked the book because it talked about what boys were thinking about.
12:04
SPEAKER_03: Like it starts off that pimple on his face, you know, going to school, and all he can think about is the pimple on his face, and he knows that everyone else is thinking about the pimple on his face, you know, and it's like, yep, been there, done that.
12:15
SPEAKER_03: But some of the things it was just very, very funny.
12:19
SPEAKER_03: But I think that, well, let me add one more thing.
12:23
SPEAKER_03: My dad went to an all-Catholic school, I think for the first nine years or something.
12:30
SPEAKER_03: Then he went to a regular school, a public school for high school.
12:34
SPEAKER_03: But, anyways, it was because of his experience in a Catholic school that he refused to send his children to a Catholic school.
12:42
SPEAKER_03: Uh again, Archie Bunker.
12:45
SPEAKER_03: I won't tell you what he said or how much he got punished, or maybe he was one of the characters in the book that, you know.
12:52
SPEAKER_03: I could see all of the above for him.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
12:56
SPEAKER_03: So definitely a character for sure.
12:59
SPEAKER_03: Yes, definitely a character who had comments of their own.
13:02
SPEAKER_03: Um, but it was it was funny reading this book about, you know, I mean, come on.
13:08
SPEAKER_03: I not even a public school teacher would have a rules of making out, but according to this book, the priest gave them, the brother, the brother, not the priest, the brothers, gave the kids, the boys, of um what it is to make out what you should, you couldn't have a long kiss or intermittent kisses, or it just it was it was just silly.
13:28
SPEAKER_03: And I think as a young teen, I think I would have enjoyed reading that.
13:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:33
SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, I believe that was the message that he was trying to give.
13:38
SPEAKER_03: But I I I'm gonna send Wendy the link to the motivational speaking because this guy was had such a personality.
13:44
SPEAKER_03: I really enjoyed the author.
13:46
SPEAKER_02: I would enjoy that.
13:48
SPEAKER_02: I think maybe maybe we'll have him on sometime, you think?
13:50
SPEAKER_03: I think we can have somebody who went to a Catholic school and see what resonates with them.
13:56
SPEAKER_03: Uh he died.
13:58
SPEAKER_03: Oh! Sorry I didn't mention that.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: Oh he died in 2013.
14:12
SPEAKER_02: That would be someone I'd love to have on.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what you asked me.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: I need to get that phone bell.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: I don't know which one he wants.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: I would love to delve a little more into that, but I think we have to make it.
14:34
SPEAKER_03: So I would give this book, um, I would give this book two popcorns.
14:40
SPEAKER_03: Only because I didn't go to Catholic school, so a lot of it didn't resonate with me.
14:46
SPEAKER_03: I was more, I read in such horror, like, oh my god, horrible punishment.
14:51
SPEAKER_03: I still can't get over that.
14:52
SPEAKER_03: And the different types of sin.
14:53
SPEAKER_03: If you think it, you're guilty.
14:55
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, we're all going to hell, people.
14:58
SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah.
14:59
SPEAKER_03: So, but, anyways, I did learn a lot.
15:03
SPEAKER_03: Um, but just two popcorns.
15:05
SPEAKER_03: Oh, something else I wanted to say about this.
15:08
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if I'd recommend this book.
15:11
SPEAKER_03: I would recommend it to somebody who went to a Catholic school just for a little ha ha, right?
15:14
SPEAKER_03: But I definitely would go and see this as a play.
15:17
SPEAKER_03: I think it would be interesting.
15:19
SPEAKER_03: And that's all I got to say.
15:21
SPEAKER_02: That sounds fun.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
15:23
SPEAKER_02: I think nine-year-old Kim might have given it five popcorns, but that's okay because you're not nine anymore.
15:28
SPEAKER_02: And that's that's how we roll.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
15:33
SPEAKER_02: So, well, if you didn't wait, you know, all those years to read it when I gave it to you.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: You never mentioned it over.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: You might have liked it more.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: Now that you know the things that I can find.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: If anybody's missing something, ask Wendy the super sleuth here.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: It's her superpower.
15:51
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, no.
15:52
SPEAKER_02: Okay, but we have a special surprise for you today because I think I mentioned we're doing The Night Road by Kristen Hanna.
16:01
SPEAKER_02: And I loved this book.
16:03
SPEAKER_02: It did come with some criticisms.
16:05
SPEAKER_02: Some people didn't think it was her best book.
16:07
SPEAKER_02: They thought it was a little long in the beginning.
16:10
SPEAKER_02: And what was another criticism I'm trying to remember?
16:13
SPEAKER_02: They said the ending was too quick.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: I think you even mentioned something about that, Kim, how it just wrapped up so quickly.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: But I couldn't put this book down when I started reading it, and I really enjoyed it.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: So, this book was released March 22nd, 2011.
16:30
SPEAKER_02: It had a 4.26 on Goodreads.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: It sold around 4.5 million copies.
16:36
SPEAKER_02: It was published in 45 different languages.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: And in case you've been living on the moon, Kristen Hanna has sold over 25 million books worldwide and is an award-winning New York Times bestseller.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: She was born in California and went to the University of Washington, earning a communications degree and later a law degree.
16:58
SPEAKER_02: She practiced law in Seattle, and her writing was sparked during a collaborative project with her mother while her mother was battling cancer.
17:07
SPEAKER_02: Some of her other books are The Women in 2024, The Four Winds in 2021, The Great Alone in 2018, and Firefly Lane in 2008, to name a few.
17:18
SPEAKER_02: The most popular one to date has been The Nightingale, which is coming out as a movie scheduled to be released March 19th, 2027.
17:27
SPEAKER_02: It stars Dakota Fanning and Ella Fanning and is directed by Michael Morris.
17:32
SPEAKER_02: I loved The Nightingale and I can't wait to see the movie.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: Maybe I should plan a trip to Texas so we can see the movie together.
17:38
SPEAKER_02: What do you think, Kim?
17:40
SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
17:41
SPEAKER_02: Book now.
17:42
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
17:42
SPEAKER_02: Tickets while they're cheaper.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: Especially Texas in March would be nice coming from Cleveland.
17:49
SPEAKER_02: So all right, so let's get into the plot summary for Night Road.
17:54
SPEAKER_02: Jude Faraday is a stay-at-home helicopter mom in Washington State, married to Miles, a well-known accomplished surgeon.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: They are parents to twins, Zack and Mia.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: Zach is popular, athletic, and kind.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: Mia is shy and insecure.
18:11
SPEAKER_02: Mia meets Lexi when they are 14 and become best friends.
18:15
SPEAKER_02: Lexi comes from the foster system and has been neglected until age 14 when she moves into a trailer park with her maternal aunt Eva, who provides a caring and stable home, although they sometimes struggle to make ends meet.
18:28
SPEAKER_02: Jude welcomes Lexi into their upscale home, treating her like a third child.
18:33
SPEAKER_02: After a while, Zack and Lexi fall in love and plan to go to college together.
18:38
SPEAKER_02: Days before graduation, they attend a beach party.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: Despite being the designated driver, Zack drinks too much and so does his twin Mia.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: Having the least to drink, Lexi drives the trio home, but becomes distracted on the rainy, twisting roads and gets into a fatal car crash.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: Mia dies.
19:00
SPEAKER_02: Jude turns her anger on Lexi and demands justice.
19:04
SPEAKER_02: Devastated by her best friend's death, Lexi pleads guilty against the advice of her court-appointed attorney.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: Wanting to make an example of Lexi, the judge sentences the 18-year-old to five and a half years in prison.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: While in prison, Lexi finds out she's pregnant with Zach's child.
19:22
SPEAKER_02: The book examines the path to healing and how each character handles their grief and guilt.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: Talk about compelling.
19:29
SPEAKER_02: I couldn't put it down.
19:30
SPEAKER_02: How about you, Kim?
19:32
SPEAKER_02: I finished it within two days.
19:34
SPEAKER_03: That's not the norm for me.
19:38
SPEAKER_03: Very emotional.
19:39
SPEAKER_03: Very, very emotional.
19:41
SPEAKER_03: And Wendy recommended that we read this book.
19:45
SPEAKER_03: We and before I started, I was with Wendy, and she gave me a goodie bag for my journey back home to Texas.
19:52
SPEAKER_03: Inside her goodie bag, she had two um two things of Kleenex for me.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: And I thought, oh, well, maybe I had a runny nose when I was with her or something.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: And she's trying to, you know, tell me something.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
20:06
SPEAKER_03: Not the normal, uh it's not the normal goodie bag I get from now.
20:10
SPEAKER_03: But I did have some goodies in there too for the road trip.
20:12
SPEAKER_03: So, anyways, as I'm reading the book, she's texting me and I said, I can't talk.
20:17
SPEAKER_03: I'm crying.
20:18
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
20:19
SPEAKER_03: If if you're sensitive, if you're, I mean, when you read a book, if you become part of that character and you're fighting for justice and you're fighting for this, and you're right with you're one with that character, make sure you got three boxes of tissues, not just two.
20:36
SPEAKER_03: But it was a very um very wonderful book that captured your attention and you just couldn't put the book down.
20:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:44
SPEAKER_02: The first half sort of read as a almost like a coming of age book.
20:49
SPEAKER_02: It was almost like two books, the first half and then the second half.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: And the first half was all, like I said, sort of like coming of age, but then the second half was all dealing with everything after the accident.
21:02
SPEAKER_02: And speaking of, you know, tears and feeling the emotions of your characters, how would you distribute accountability for the tragic night between the parents, the twins, Lexi?
21:22
SPEAKER_03: I would have to distribute equally for all three of them.
21:27
SPEAKER_03: Okay, that all three of them meaning the I couldn't hold one of them accountable for everything.
21:33
SPEAKER_03: And that's exactly what the mother, Jude, short for Judith, held Lexi accountable.
21:39
SPEAKER_03: You know, she just her anger was just so at Lexi, you know, and she got up in court, and I'll never be able to, you know, give her her graduation gift.
21:50
SPEAKER_03: I'll never be able to hold her first child, I'll never be able to comb her hair, I'll never be able to do this or that.
21:55
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think her three children were all guilty.
22:00
SPEAKER_03: We're all guilty.
22:01
SPEAKER_03: They shouldn't have been drinking.
22:02
SPEAKER_03: They're over 18.
22:03
SPEAKER_03: They claim they're adults, but they're not acting like adults.
22:06
SPEAKER_03: And they only were a mile away from home.
22:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's what's so sad.
22:11
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I empathize with her grief about losing her her daughter because she, you know, only two of them were really her kids.
22:18
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the twins.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: And I totally empathize with that.
22:22
SPEAKER_02: And in the the first half of the book, I thought she was a pretty decent mom.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: I didn't agree with everything she did.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that I definitely didn't agree with in the first half of the book was she told her twins that if they were ever drinking, that they could call home and she would come and pick them up, and there would be no repercussions.
22:45
SPEAKER_02: None at all.
22:46
SPEAKER_02: And I questions asked.
22:48
SPEAKER_02: And I have to say, I said that same thing to my son.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: You know, if you're ever somewhere and you need a ride home, whether it's because you can't drive or you don't want to drive with somebody else who's impaired, I will come and get you.
23:02
SPEAKER_02: No questions asked and no repercussions, and I'll never mention it again because I'd rather have their safety over anything else.
23:11
SPEAKER_02: Well, she told her twins that same thing, but yet they called her one night when they had too much to drink and they knew they couldn't drive.
23:19
SPEAKER_02: And she punished them.
23:22
SPEAKER_02: She was very mad.
23:23
SPEAKER_02: She showed up in her pajamas, which was a little embarrassing, you have to admit.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: Oh, come on.
23:29
SPEAKER_02: And she she yelled at them and then she took them only the keys.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and she wouldn't let them drive for a while or go to any parties.
23:39
SPEAKER_02: And that is exactly the opposite of what she said she would do.
23:42
SPEAKER_02: And I get she was mad and she was upset and she was afraid.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: But you can't say that and then not go through with it because here's what happened that night.
23:53
SPEAKER_02: They thought about calling her.
23:55
SPEAKER_02: And I believe it was Zach who said, Oh no, no, if we call her, we'll be we'll be punished so bad, you know.
24:02
SPEAKER_02: And they were like, oh no, because of that other time.
24:05
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not blaming the mom.
24:07
SPEAKER_02: I'm not, but I'm just saying she should have followed through with that.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: And I didn't agree with it in the first half of the book, and then I saw, whoa, look what happened now.
24:16
SPEAKER_02: And again, I'm yes, and I'm not again, I am not blaming the mom.
24:22
SPEAKER_02: Because I think blame goes a little bit on everybody.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, a lot on the kids, and a little bit on the mom, and maybe even a little bit on the dad, because he was not a real present parent.
24:35
SPEAKER_03: He was a surgeon and he was a doctor, so he was always on call.
24:40
SPEAKER_03: But he was a really great guy.
24:42
SPEAKER_03: Oh, he was a good guy.
24:43
SPEAKER_03: He was a great dad.
24:44
SPEAKER_03: He was a great dad.
24:45
SPEAKER_03: And actually at the court, the judge asked, before I pass sentence, does anybody want to stand up and say anything?
24:50
SPEAKER_03: And right away the dad did.
24:52
SPEAKER_03: And he gave his little speech that there's been enough tragedy for everyone.
24:58
SPEAKER_03: And it would be a shame for Lexi to go away when she's made such a change in her life.
25:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I am glad you brought that up because that was such a nice thing for him.
25:10
SPEAKER_02: Because didn't he say, and I forgive you?
25:12
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
25:13
SPEAKER_02: That was the last sentence he said.
25:14
SPEAKER_02: I cried.
25:15
SPEAKER_02: I cried reading that part.
25:18
SPEAKER_02: Because you know they're brokenhearted, but and Lexi's brokenhearted, and she feels so guilty.
25:22
SPEAKER_02: She's brokenhearted and guilty, and they all are.
25:25
SPEAKER_02: Zach is because he was supposed to be the designated driver, and you know, also she didn't have her seatbelt on, which is probably why.
25:35
SPEAKER_02: Her daughter didn't have her seatbelt on the one that right, the one that died.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she got thrown out of the car, which I believe that's why she died.
25:42
SPEAKER_02: Although Kim, she hit her head when she was at the beach.
25:45
SPEAKER_02: Do you remember that?
25:46
SPEAKER_02: Yes, she did.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: And she said, and that was an hour before they left, and she kept saying how bad her head hurt.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: Remember that?
25:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:53
SPEAKER_02: And I I wonder if she hit her head a little too hard, and that also played into some of it, but they don't really go into that.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: But I just thought that was an interesting, a little interesting thing to think about, too.
26:05
SPEAKER_03: The other thing that I want to bring up about the mother who you were saying that blamed the kids and everything.
26:11
SPEAKER_03: And she did do that, she didn't blame the kids, but she didn't really take blame herself.
26:15
SPEAKER_03: Well, she did at the end.
26:17
SPEAKER_03: But I think also she was the kind of mother that brought cupcakes into the whole school from kindergarten on, went on the field trips, and they should they even had their house built, and she built the house with the kids in mind to have like a big um like an upstairs area, not a play area, but you know, like a big loft area, TVs and all that, because she would rather have kids at her house than have her kids go elsewhere.
26:45
SPEAKER_03: Um, and she was at the PTA, she ran the volunteers.
26:51
SPEAKER_03: She was really also concerned about what other people thought of her.
26:55
SPEAKER_03: She was, but I mean, she was a really good mom.
26:59
SPEAKER_03: She was a good mom, but now everyone's gonna think that, oh, that really good mom just lets her kids drink, you know.
27:05
SPEAKER_03: I think that's why the first time the kids called her, and she was like, Oh, what's everyone gonna think?
27:11
SPEAKER_03: You know, I let my kids drink and whatnot, and blah, blah, blah.
27:15
SPEAKER_03: So you think it was a little bit about her image too?
27:18
SPEAKER_03: Yes, I do.
27:18
SPEAKER_03: I think it was a little bit, not a lot, but a little bit was there.
27:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I can see that.
27:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, a little bit was there.
27:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, and there was also the socioeconomic divide.
27:31
SPEAKER_02: Like there was a disparity there that we might want to address a little bit because Jude and Miles had a lot of money, they were really well developed.
27:42
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
27:43
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he was a really renowned surgeon, and they had everything they could ever want.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: So they could hire a lawyer.
27:50
SPEAKER_02: But Lexi, she came from foster care and a trailer home.
27:55
SPEAKER_02: And even though that her aunt raised her with a lot of love, they had a hard time of it, and they could only afford a court-appointed attorney.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: And that attorney advised her against pleading guilty.
28:07
SPEAKER_02: And she said, nope, she has to take accountability, and she pled guilty.
28:14
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like if she had more money that and they could have afforded maybe a better attorney.
28:23
SPEAKER_02: I don't think it was just that, I think it was her upbringing.
28:26
SPEAKER_03: I mean, that played into it.
28:28
SPEAKER_03: I agree because she saw Zach, Mia, Jude, and Miles as the perfect loving family, and because she was driving, she ruined their perfect loving family.
28:45
SPEAKER_03: Right.
28:46
SPEAKER_03: So I think that she felt guilty for ruining the dynamic of the family, for killing her absolute best friend.
28:54
SPEAKER_03: And so I think she was trying to punish herself really bad.
28:57
SPEAKER_03: And I even think in the book it said she wanted to make, you know, she wanted to atone for her sins.
29:03
SPEAKER_02: I agree with that because when she was in foster care, she also was very self-sacrificing.
29:12
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
29:13
SPEAKER_02: She was always she was let's let's say this right now, she was always a really good girl, always studied hard, always got good grades, you know, got into college, even though she didn't have the money to really go to college.
29:27
SPEAKER_02: She she worked after school and the other two didn't.
29:30
SPEAKER_02: Right.
29:31
SPEAKER_02: Up until she was 14 and you know, had a study home with her aunt.
29:36
SPEAKER_02: She used to always think that everything was her fault, and she took blame for for everything.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: And and it wasn't her fault.
29:43
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't her fault that her mother was a drug addict and kept on leaving her.
29:48
SPEAKER_02: It was not her fault.
29:49
SPEAKER_02: She was just a child, and she didn't understand that.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: So I think I think money did play into this a little bit.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: But you're right, I I agree that she just took all the blame.
30:04
SPEAKER_02: And do you think that a five and a half year sentence for somebody who had an accident?
30:10
SPEAKER_02: Because she they said that she was, I don't want to make light of her being only point to oh one over the limit, because anything over the limit, you should not be driving.
30:20
SPEAKER_02: But she had two beers.
30:22
SPEAKER_02: I don't really think it was the alcohol that made her have that accident.
30:26
SPEAKER_02: I think it was they were in Washington State, it's dark, it's rainy, she's not used to driving their car or driving at all.
30:33
SPEAKER_02: She doesn't have a car.
30:34
SPEAKER_02: I mean, she had her license apparently, but not the car.
30:37
SPEAKER_03: The music was blaring, Mia singing and chined in, and Zach's telling her to sit down and she's hitting Zach in the front, and it was just She got distracted, and then there was a a twisty road that was coming up, and she didn't make that turn.
30:52
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I'm sure the alcohol played into it too, or probably did, but she it was just a horrible accident, and everybody, like you said, everybody was at fault, and she ended up doing over five and a half years.
31:10
SPEAKER_03: Well, the extra six months was her own doing, though.
31:14
SPEAKER_03: It was, but it was because she was acting out of no grief.
31:20
SPEAKER_03: It was she hurt from feeling all the pain, and she just wanted to be numb.
31:25
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yes, that's true.
31:27
SPEAKER_03: She just wanted to stop everything, she just wanted to be numb.
31:31
SPEAKER_03: So while she was in jail, her bunkmate actually was a very nice person who I think was in for life.
31:37
SPEAKER_03: She killed her husband, but you know, he deserved it.
31:40
SPEAKER_03: Um, and she didn't make any qualms about it.
31:42
SPEAKER_03: You say so, okay.
31:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he was he was a bad, bad, bad man.
31:47
SPEAKER_03: And then when she started, I forget what the other weird lady's name was, but she wanted some drugs.
31:53
SPEAKER_03: She just wanted some drugs.
31:55
SPEAKER_03: And her cellmate came up to her and said, Hey, what are you doing?
31:58
SPEAKER_03: And she goes, Leave that girl alone, you know, that young girl, Lexi, talking to that drug lady who runs the place with drugs.
32:06
SPEAKER_03: And Lexi's like, get out of my way.
32:08
SPEAKER_03: This is between her and I.
32:09
SPEAKER_03: And she goes, You're a good girl.
32:11
SPEAKER_03: Get back, get back, right?
32:12
SPEAKER_03: She goes, get out of my way.
32:13
SPEAKER_03: So not only did she take the drugs, but she punched her cellmate in the nose.
32:18
SPEAKER_03: And that's when the police and everybody, and they, I mean not the police, the guards, and they threw her in solitary confinement for a while.
32:25
SPEAKER_02: They did, and that's why she got her time at it.
32:28
SPEAKER_02: But that is also why, and we haven't discussed this yet, that this is also after her baby was taken away and she gave up rights to it.
32:37
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
32:38
SPEAKER_02: She was obviously depressed.
32:39
SPEAKER_02: Come on.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: She held her baby for two and they kept her tied down until a doctor finally came in and said, You better unchain her right now.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, she said that she would give the baby up for adoption if Zach and his family didn't want the baby.
32:57
SPEAKER_02: But she first went to them and said, You know, do you want the baby?
33:01
SPEAKER_02: Because she felt like if they took the baby, that her baby would be raised in a loving home.
33:07
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, because that's all that's what she wanted her whole life.
33:11
SPEAKER_02: And she knew that that was a loving, nurturing home when you know, when she was lots of hugs and kisses before she went away to jail.
33:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
33:20
SPEAKER_02: And so Zach did show up.
33:22
SPEAKER_02: Zach did want the baby, you know, and but okay, let me put a little thing right there.
33:28
SPEAKER_03: When the lawyer knocked on their house door and wanted to talk to Zach and told Zach that she was pregnant and he could have the baby if he wants the baby, but he has to come face to face, be there when she has the baby, so she could personally hand him the baby.
33:47
SPEAKER_03: Her mother, I mean, Zach's mother, Jude again, was against it.
33:52
SPEAKER_03: She just had so much anger and hate towards Lexi.
33:59
SPEAKER_03: So but and Lexi had no idea that there they weren't living the life that she knew they used to live.
34:07
SPEAKER_03: There was so much anger and hate, and it was destroying them as a family.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: That was mostly coming from Jude, though.
34:15
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't from Miles and Zach.
34:16
SPEAKER_02: Jude was really lashing out at everybody she loved, just everybody.
34:23
SPEAKER_02: And that was just part of her grief.
34:25
SPEAKER_02: That was part of that was part of her grief.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm not saying it was okay, but it was.
34:30
SPEAKER_03: And so, of course, Jude, who doesn't want the baby, goes there with Zach to the prison.
34:36
SPEAKER_03: And uh and as he's as she's handing him the baby and said, her name is Grace.
34:44
SPEAKER_03: And he said, Oh, but I thought you liked the name blah blah blah.
34:47
SPEAKER_03: Because when they were together, they were talking about having a family, what names they liked and whatnot.
34:51
SPEAKER_03: And that kind of uh made her feel good that she's that he still remembered that they're happy times.
34:57
SPEAKER_03: Lexi thinks Jake hates her for killing his sister, but Jake thinks that Lexi hates him.
35:05
SPEAKER_03: So we got that dynamic.
35:07
SPEAKER_03: And guess who's knocking at the door?
35:08
SPEAKER_03: Come on, you ready to go?
35:10
SPEAKER_03: Come on, you ready to go?
35:11
SPEAKER_03: Jude.
35:12
SPEAKER_03: So he's like, Oh, it's my mother, I gotta go.
35:14
SPEAKER_03: So she takes the baby and tries to hand the baby to Jude, and Jude goes, Oh my god, she looks like Mia and doesn't want to have anything to do with the baby.
35:24
SPEAKER_02: No, and yeah, she has a real hard time even looking at that baby.
35:28
SPEAKER_02: You're right.
35:29
SPEAKER_02: Let's let's say also though, even though Lexi thought that Zach hated her and Zach thought that Lexi hated him, they both still loved each other.
35:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, bad communication, I would say.
35:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, because he wrote to her and she wouldn't open any of the letters and she returned them.
35:47
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that's on her.
35:49
SPEAKER_02: That was whatever.
35:50
SPEAKER_02: And she didn't write, I don't think she wrote to any of them except her daughter, Grace.
35:56
SPEAKER_02: But I don't think she sent the letters.
35:58
SPEAKER_02: She never mailed them, she kept them.
35:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she didn't send them because she just wanted Grace to be happy and not have a mother in prison because that's what she had.
36:09
SPEAKER_02: And she didn't want her to grow up thinking, oh, my mom's in prison.
36:12
SPEAKER_02: She wanted her to grow up thinking, I have my dad, I have my grandmother, I have my grandfather, I have a loving home.
36:17
SPEAKER_02: And that's all that mattered to her.
36:19
SPEAKER_02: But meanwhile, her daughter's very unhappy, very, very unhappy.
36:25
SPEAKER_03: She's actually afraid of her grandmother.
36:27
SPEAKER_03: Did I do something wrong?
36:28
SPEAKER_03: And you can kind of see the same personality traits that Lexi has now her daughter has because she notices the only person that really makes her smile is her daddy.
36:37
SPEAKER_03: Zach.
36:38
SPEAKER_02: And her her grandpa Miles.
36:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, her grandpa Miles, too.
36:41
SPEAKER_03: Her grandma, she's afraid of.
36:42
SPEAKER_03: Did I make you sad?
36:44
SPEAKER_03: And then she has imaginary friends.
36:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:47
SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah.
36:49
SPEAKER_02: So well, Zach was doing his best though, because he was going, he was still going to medical school like he planned.
36:55
SPEAKER_02: He was working, I think, full time.
36:58
SPEAKER_02: And you know, he was studying and doing rounds.
37:02
SPEAKER_02: He made it through medical school, and he was raising, he was, he finally moved out, and he was raising Grace, not on his own.
37:10
SPEAKER_02: He had help.
37:11
SPEAKER_03: But Grace came over every day almost, picked her up, took her to daycare.
37:15
SPEAKER_03: But there's been a few times that her mother was so his mother was so swallowed up in grief that she forgot to pick her up, forgot to pick Gracie up, the little girl from the daycare, and they got a call.
37:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:27
SPEAKER_02: One time I think she even forgot she was at her home.
37:31
SPEAKER_02: You know, uh, because she just couldn't get past that grief or anger.
37:36
SPEAKER_03: But she was seeing a therapist.
37:39
SPEAKER_03: She went through a lot of therapists.
37:40
SPEAKER_03: And as soon as someone said, Oh, time will heal, she's like, next, new therapist, new therapist.
37:46
SPEAKER_03: All she wanted was drugs to go to sleep.
37:48
SPEAKER_03: She let herself fall apart.
37:50
SPEAKER_03: She didn't go out, she lacked any social skills at this point.
37:54
SPEAKER_03: She hated to talk to people, and even her and her husband would start to bicker a little bit.
37:59
SPEAKER_03: And he even got tired of the grief.
38:02
SPEAKER_02: But she almost lost her marriage.
38:04
SPEAKER_02: I mean, she had a really loving husband to be able to hang in through all that because it's five and a half.
38:10
SPEAKER_03: Five years, yeah.
38:11
SPEAKER_03: Well, not six years, really.
38:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, almost six years later, yeah, that Lexi gets out.
38:16
SPEAKER_02: And Lexi does not intend on going to see Grace.
38:20
SPEAKER_02: But it turns out that she has some time before she leaves the state of Washington to go back to her aunt, who's in Florida.
38:27
SPEAKER_02: Now she retired to Florida.
38:30
SPEAKER_02: And she just wants to see Grace just one time to make sure she's happy.
38:36
SPEAKER_02: Or I think just the skin.
38:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, was definitely the beginning of the beginning.
38:41
SPEAKER_02: It gave Jude a heart attack.
38:43
SPEAKER_02: But well, when she saw her, she didn't, she felt like, oh my gosh, she doesn't have any friends.
38:48
SPEAKER_02: She's not playing with anybody, she doesn't seem happy.
38:50
SPEAKER_02: Why?
38:51
SPEAKER_02: Why?
38:51
SPEAKER_02: She couldn't understand why.
38:54
SPEAKER_02: And luckily, her court-appointed attorney was so nice and so wonderful.
39:02
SPEAKER_02: He helped her when she got out.
39:03
SPEAKER_02: He let her stay at his office and gave her a bike to ride and I think some money to be able to take a bus to her aunt's.
39:13
SPEAKER_02: But he also, when she went to him and told him, I don't remember exactly how it went, but she told him that Grace doesn't seem happy and she would really like to see Grace.
39:25
SPEAKER_02: He said, You have every right to be reunited with your daughter.
39:28
SPEAKER_02: There's no reason why you can't be reunited with your daughter.
39:30
SPEAKER_02: I can file for you.
39:32
SPEAKER_02: Even though she gave away full custody.
39:35
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
39:35
SPEAKER_03: Originally.
39:37
SPEAKER_03: And um she said that she was ready to fight.
39:40
SPEAKER_03: And he said, Yes.
39:41
SPEAKER_03: The courts like to see unification with the parents, the mother and child.
39:45
SPEAKER_02: Yes, especially with the mother.
39:47
SPEAKER_02: And she had gotten a degree while she was while she was in jail, too.
39:52
SPEAKER_02: I believe it was a sociology degree.
39:53
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
39:54
SPEAKER_02: She got a degree, she went to school.
39:55
SPEAKER_02: She didn't just sit sit there.
39:57
SPEAKER_02: She, you know, forward.
40:00
SPEAKER_02: Well, because after she took those drugs that one initial time, she never did that again.
40:04
SPEAKER_02: She cleaned herself up, she got a job in there, and she finished college.
40:10
SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, and she I want to repeat, she always was a good person who wouldn't feel lost after being sentenced to jail.
40:18
SPEAKER_02: The judge wanted to make an example out of her.
40:22
SPEAKER_03: But you know what?
40:23
SPEAKER_03: He said that.
40:24
SPEAKER_03: He said that group of people, what's called mad mothers against drunk drivers.
40:28
SPEAKER_03: Yes, he said that that they asked for an example to be made of to give her the hardest punishment to protect the kids that are coming up.
40:36
SPEAKER_03: But we don't know 100% for sure if he did because I don't know what the law is.
40:40
SPEAKER_03: I mean, what if he could have given her 20 years?
40:44
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
40:44
SPEAKER_03: No, I think he could have gave her probation.
40:47
SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, he probably could have said, I mean, I'm just guessing I'm not a lawyer.
40:52
SPEAKER_03: He probably could have said, um, because they do this on TV, I'm gonna sentence you to five and a half years, but we're gonna suspend the first five years in the last six months.
41:03
SPEAKER_03: You can do house arrest.
41:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, we could have a lot of people.
41:07
SPEAKER_02: Or be in probation.
41:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
41:08
SPEAKER_02: Or something like that.
41:09
SPEAKER_02: Of course, we're not lawyers, we don't know, but it just seemed, I mean, it seemed well, she actually, I think it said in the book, she got the harshest punishment they had, I believe.
41:19
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if she got the harshest.
41:20
SPEAKER_02: I mean, she did kill somebody.
41:22
SPEAKER_03: She did kill somebody, even though it was an accident.
41:24
SPEAKER_03: She did kill somebody.
41:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I okay, we need to consult the lawyer.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: Because I could have one out of our depth here.
41:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I'm not sure.
41:32
SPEAKER_02: Because I could have swore the book said she got the maximum.
41:35
SPEAKER_02: But here's the thing: if she had going back to the socioeconomics, if she had a lot of money, you know, I do not think that she would have spent five and a half years in jail.
41:45
SPEAKER_02: And I don't think they would have looked at her like that because they looked at her like, oh, you came through the foster system, your mother was a drug addict, blah, blah.
41:51
SPEAKER_02: You know, they were trying to paint an ugly picture of her.
41:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:56
SPEAKER_02: And when she just wanted visitation rights with her daughter, Jude decided to fight it.
42:03
SPEAKER_02: She didn't want her to have it.
42:04
SPEAKER_02: But and then I thought to myself, but you don't even notice her.
42:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you don't she looked identical to her Aunt Mia.
42:15
SPEAKER_02: And that was not a good thing for Jude because she didn't want to have to look at what she lost, you know?
42:22
SPEAKER_02: But she yet she was still fighting for her.
42:26
SPEAKER_02: Anger.
42:27
SPEAKER_03: Anger, anger, anger, anger, love, grief.
42:31
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's terrible.
42:32
SPEAKER_03: Five and a half years, and Jude.
42:35
SPEAKER_03: It's okay to have grief, but not with the anger, with love.
42:40
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think back about people who have died in my family, and I could think of happy memories.
42:46
SPEAKER_03: Or sometimes I can even cry, but I'm not, you know, angry.
42:51
SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm not mad.
42:53
SPEAKER_03: But um, but I never lost a child either.
42:55
SPEAKER_03: So I mean I I don't ever want to be in Jude's spot, and I can't imagine what she feels like, but I know there has to be help out there.
43:05
SPEAKER_02: I don't think Jude could get past that anger stage though, but she did because Lexi did get visitation rights, and Jude was like, it it's gonna have to be with me.
43:16
SPEAKER_02: And actually, she conceded a little bit because Lexi couldn't afford because it had to be supervised, and she couldn't afford to pay somebody to supervise it.
43:24
SPEAKER_02: And I did not know that that cost money.
43:27
SPEAKER_02: I had no idea.
43:28
SPEAKER_01: I thought the court paid for it.
43:29
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I didn't court appointed, yeah.
43:33
SPEAKER_02: But I guess um I think Zach or Miles or both of them convinced her to let Lexi see Grace, and Jude was like, Okay, only if I'm there.
43:45
SPEAKER_02: But then Lexi left those letters that she wrote to Grace, and I think that's when things started changing.
43:53
SPEAKER_02: She opened up and read one of the letters.
43:56
SPEAKER_02: Do you remember what it said, Kim?
43:58
SPEAKER_02: I don't remember.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: I think she's she wrote to her daughter Gracie and she said, You're with a loving family.
44:05
SPEAKER_03: Oh, you've got your grandfather Miles who will always make you laugh.
44:10
SPEAKER_03: You've got your grandmother Jude who will give you hundreds of kisses and hugs.
44:14
SPEAKER_03: And Jude wasn't doing any of that.
44:16
SPEAKER_03: No.
44:17
SPEAKER_03: And you've got a dad that loves you so much, so, so much.
44:21
SPEAKER_03: And then Lexi went to their house and she wanted to talk to Jude.
44:27
SPEAKER_03: And they opened the door, and Jude's like, What are you doing here?
44:30
SPEAKER_03: She goes, I want to talk to you.
44:32
SPEAKER_03: And she said, I wanted you to have my daughter.
44:36
SPEAKER_03: And she kept on emphasizing my daughter.
44:40
SPEAKER_03: Well, at least in my mind, she did when I read the words.
44:43
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
44:43
SPEAKER_03: And she said, I wanted you to raise her because I remember what it was like.
44:47
SPEAKER_03: And I wanted so much to be part of your family.
44:49
SPEAKER_03: And I remember you doing so many things with Mia.
44:52
SPEAKER_03: And I just know that my daughter would have a great life with you.
44:57
SPEAKER_03: And I think that when Jude saw how much she loved her daughter and what she would sacrifice herself so her daughter could have a better life.
45:09
SPEAKER_03: I think that Jude was coming around.
45:13
SPEAKER_03: She started to soften.
45:14
SPEAKER_03: And then the icing on the cake, of course, is when Jude went and talked to her mother.
45:18
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yes.
45:19
SPEAKER_03: That was the icing on the cake.
45:21
SPEAKER_03: Jude never wanted to be like her mother.
45:23
SPEAKER_03: And she never wanted to be with her mother, but her mother was getting up there in age.
45:26
SPEAKER_03: And her mother decided once a month we're going to get together and we're going to have lunch.
45:31
SPEAKER_03: Those lunch dates were always very painful, and she's been doing them.
45:35
SPEAKER_03: And her mother asked her if she wanted to take over the art gallery.
45:38
SPEAKER_03: It would be wonderful.
45:40
SPEAKER_03: And she told her mother, nope.
45:42
SPEAKER_03: And but then on her one trip that she had to go see her mother, that's when she found out how much pain and suffering that her mother went through and how she ignored her daughter, Jude, and how because she ignored her, she lost that connection with Jude and how she regrets it.
46:00
SPEAKER_02: That was beautifully put because that's when she realized she was doing the exact same thing with her granddaughter.
46:06
SPEAKER_02: And that's when she went home and she told Mia she wanted to play a game.
46:10
SPEAKER_02: And at first, Mia was like, Mia or Gracie.
46:14
SPEAKER_02: Not Mia, I'm sorry, Gracie.
46:15
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
46:16
SPEAKER_02: Mia's dead, by the way.
46:17
SPEAKER_01: So much.
46:19
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna let it slip the first time you said Mia, but after the third time, I'm like, okay, that's happened here.
46:24
SPEAKER_02: She didn't raise from the dead.
46:26
SPEAKER_02: This is not a zombie book.
46:28
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
46:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, she goes back and she talks to Grace and she tells Grace, let's play a game.
46:33
SPEAKER_02: And Grace is she's all excited and happy, but also shocked and a little leery.
46:39
SPEAKER_02: And she's like, You want to play a game with me?
46:42
SPEAKER_02: But she does, and it just sort of opens the door to her really starting to get to know her granddaughter and realizing what she's been doing, um, pushing her away and what she's been losing and missing out on, too.
46:54
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
46:55
SPEAKER_02: And you know, she's continuing to go to therapy, and the therapist is so happy because she's actually starting to make headway.
47:02
SPEAKER_02: And this is when the book really starts to turn around a little bit.
47:05
SPEAKER_02: And I think go ahead.
47:08
SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say the book starts turning around the last few pages.
47:12
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
47:12
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I was just about to say I'm like, oh my gosh, this is what we've been waiting for.
47:17
SPEAKER_02: This is what we've been waiting for, and all of a sudden she accepts Lexi again, and you know, she said Lexi live happily or her Zach and Lexi live happily ever after.
47:28
SPEAKER_02: That's the end.
47:29
SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's true.
47:30
SPEAKER_03: That is the end, but let's rewind a couple paragraphs, okay?
47:34
SPEAKER_03: Oh, barely.
47:35
SPEAKER_03: So when her and her granddaughter are playing shoots and ladders, her granddaughter says, Look, look, grandma, or Nana, whatever she called her, and she goes, Look what my mommy gave me.
47:46
SPEAKER_03: And it was the ring that Zach gave to Lexi on Christmas right before graduating, a promise ring that they were gonna get married.
47:55
SPEAKER_03: And that's kind of some of the angst started at that point because she thought that Zach was throwing away his life with Lexi, even though she was a really nice girl and everything.
48:07
SPEAKER_03: You know, she had high dreams, high hopes for her children.
48:11
SPEAKER_03: She wanted them to go away to school, right?
48:14
SPEAKER_03: And here at the end, they didn't want to go away to school because the three of them, Lexi, Mia, and Zach, were the three amigos, and Lexi couldn't afford to go away to school.
48:24
SPEAKER_03: So they all decided to go to a local school.
48:27
SPEAKER_03: And her daughter, Mia, told her that.
48:29
SPEAKER_03: She goes, Look, mom, Zach loves Lexi.
48:32
SPEAKER_03: Lexi loves Zach.
48:33
SPEAKER_03: So what?
48:34
SPEAKER_03: We'll do the first year or two at a you know, local college.
48:38
SPEAKER_03: And she said, Mia, we'll talk about this when you get home.
48:42
SPEAKER_03: And that night Mia died.
48:44
SPEAKER_03: So, anyways, now we're going to the back of the book, and she sees that ring and it brings back a lot of memories and how she's happy with her granddaughter.
48:52
SPEAKER_03: She had to talk with her mother, and Lexi talked to her, and I think her heart just broke open at that point.
48:58
SPEAKER_03: And when Zach came in to pick up his daughter, she showed him the ring and said, Zach, you have to go find her.
49:06
SPEAKER_03: I think she's about to go to Florida.
49:08
SPEAKER_03: You got to go find her and bring her home.
49:12
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so that was really nice.
49:13
SPEAKER_03: And they live happily ever after.
49:15
SPEAKER_03: So here's the part that I don't like.
49:17
unknown: Okay.
49:17
SPEAKER_03: Now that her heart cracked open and Jude, the mom, waved her magic wand and said, Okay, Zach, go after her.
49:29
SPEAKER_03: I mean, come on.
49:31
SPEAKER_03: He's a man.
49:32
SPEAKER_03: Uh it's like he needed mommy's permission.
49:35
SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry.
49:35
SPEAKER_03: I just don't like that.
49:37
SPEAKER_02: I don't like that.
49:38
SPEAKER_02: She had such a hold over them, though, ever since they were born.
49:41
SPEAKER_02: I mean, she really had a hold over those twins.
49:44
SPEAKER_02: And I think he was still feeling the guilt.
49:47
SPEAKER_02: Plus, he didn't know that Lexi loved him still.
49:50
SPEAKER_02: He did not know.
49:51
SPEAKER_02: And I think she showed him a letter or something, or told him something happened where he realized that Lexi still loved him.
49:59
SPEAKER_02: And he thought, oh my gosh, Lexi doesn't hate me.
50:02
SPEAKER_02: I think, I think he was surprised that Lexi still had that ring and gave it to the daughter.
50:07
SPEAKER_03: You know, maybe that was it.
50:09
SPEAKER_03: I think that was something.
50:10
SPEAKER_03: And then something in him, though.
50:12
SPEAKER_03: Something in him.
50:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, whatever.
50:14
SPEAKER_03: I really think it's his mother's magic wand.
50:16
SPEAKER_03: I'm not depressed anymore.
50:18
SPEAKER_03: I'm not depressed anymore.
50:19
SPEAKER_03: Go talk to her.
50:20
SPEAKER_03: Like, really?
50:20
SPEAKER_02: We can go talk to her?
50:21
SPEAKER_02: I just it gets me so mad.
50:23
SPEAKER_02: I think we're putting a lot on the mom, but I I see I see what you're saying.
50:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
50:28
SPEAKER_03: Like, I think the husband was, you know, was a man in his own.
50:34
SPEAKER_03: I mean, he forgave Lexi.
50:36
SPEAKER_03: I mean, he he grieved, he cried, he missed his daughter, but he forgave Lexi.
50:40
SPEAKER_03: Actually, when I was reading this book, I'm like, Miles, leave the woman.
50:45
SPEAKER_03: She's just not nice.
50:47
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
50:48
SPEAKER_02: I know, I know, I knew I feel guilty, but Miles had a really good relationship with Grace, too.
50:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he they were just like really close.
50:57
SPEAKER_02: I know, he adored Grace.
50:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
51:00
SPEAKER_02: Just as Zach did, and it was just Jude that couldn't look at her.
51:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
51:06
SPEAKER_02: But I mean, she did come around.
51:08
SPEAKER_02: She finally hit that last stage of grief.
51:11
SPEAKER_02: And it's not like she'd ever be the same or really stop grieving totally, but she started on the path to healing finally.
51:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
51:21
SPEAKER_02: After years and years and years.
51:24
SPEAKER_03: And good for her because I mean, can you imagine if you spent your whole life like that until you died?
51:29
SPEAKER_02: No, she would have lost everything.
51:31
SPEAKER_03: Lost everything.
51:33
SPEAKER_03: And then she would have lost the connection with Grace when Grace was older, just like her mother and her.
51:40
SPEAKER_03: And she would have lost her marriage eventually.
51:44
SPEAKER_02: And she probably would have lost Zach if she didn't know that.
51:47
SPEAKER_02: Eventually, if she can table that.
51:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
51:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
51:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
51:50
SPEAKER_03: So to that point, yeah.
51:52
SPEAKER_03: So I think that Miles was an excellent husband.
51:55
SPEAKER_03: Excellent.
51:57
SPEAKER_02: So, Kim.
52:00
SPEAKER_02: If you had to rate this book, and again, it wasn't her most popular book.
52:05
SPEAKER_02: I can't wait till you read it.
52:06
SPEAKER_02: Did you read Nightingale yet?
52:08
SPEAKER_02: No, I have the book home here.
52:09
SPEAKER_02: Oh, you are gonna love that book.
52:12
SPEAKER_03: Um, what would you rate this book?
52:16
SPEAKER_03: I guess a five, because again, I couldn't put the book down.
52:22
SPEAKER_03: I'm giving it to a friend of mine.
52:24
SPEAKER_03: I've got the book right here.
52:26
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna give it to her to read.
52:27
SPEAKER_03: Just so we can sit and talk about it.
52:29
SPEAKER_03: I want to know what she thinks.
52:30
SPEAKER_03: You know, what do you think about the grieving process?
52:32
SPEAKER_03: What do you think about this?
52:32
SPEAKER_03: Do you think it was more her personality for Lexi trying to atone, or was it this and that?
52:36
SPEAKER_03: Uh, don't you think that Zach was a rat?
52:39
SPEAKER_03: I I would give it a five.
52:41
SPEAKER_03: I think this is a good book.
52:42
SPEAKER_03: How about you, Wendy?
52:44
SPEAKER_02: I would give it a five.
52:45
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I'd give it a five popcorns with butter on it, but I would definitely give it a five popcorns.
52:52
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I thought it was a great book, and I would highly recommend it.
52:57
SPEAKER_02: If you didn't read it yet, even though we spoiled every single thing.
53:02
SPEAKER_03: Um But okay, so we've read a lot of books that are coming out to the movies.
53:07
SPEAKER_03: We've read Yesteryear's, we've read Verity, um, and I forget that third book, too, that's coming out that Anne Hathaway is in.
53:15
SPEAKER_03: But honestly, after reading this book, I can picture Anne Hathaway as Jude in here.
53:20
SPEAKER_03: I can't really think who isn't that fun.
53:23
SPEAKER_03: Well, she's not though, I don't think.
53:24
SPEAKER_02: I believe we should write to her and tell her, Oh, come on, Ann, you got it Oh, wait a minute.
53:27
SPEAKER_02: They're not, I looked it up, they're not picking this book up as a movie.
53:30
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I think it's a good idea.
53:30
SPEAKER_02: They should.
53:31
SPEAKER_02: They should.
53:31
SPEAKER_02: I think they should.
53:32
SPEAKER_03: I think that this would be a really good book for Anne Hathaway.
53:35
SPEAKER_03: I can just see that.
53:36
SPEAKER_02: Well, I think it's really cool that in her book, The Nightingale, they have the two sisters playing in it because it's a book about two sisters.
53:45
SPEAKER_02: Well, there's two sisters in it.
53:47
SPEAKER_02: So that might be a good one for your trip, which we didn't discuss, by the way.
53:53
SPEAKER_03: Oh, well, I'll guess I'll have to fill you all in when I get back if I ever get through the airports because now you no longer you no longer need a passport.
54:01
SPEAKER_03: You need like basically two passports almost.
54:04
SPEAKER_02: Well, you'll have to let us know how that goes.
54:06
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, she's going out of the country.
54:09
SPEAKER_02: You want to tell our rescues where you're going, Kim?
54:12
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna go spread our podcast to Prague.
54:16
SPEAKER_03: They don't speak English, to Vienna, Austria, a lot of German, and Hungary, Budapest.
54:23
SPEAKER_03: It might be better that they don't speak English.
54:25
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
54:25
SPEAKER_03: I don't know, I don't know.
54:27
SPEAKER_03: I hope not, but but in England.
54:30
SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna get our QRC code.
54:32
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna be dropping them off at the local Starbucks.
54:36
SPEAKER_03: So if uh you have to be passing through any of those countries and see uh a QR code with uh our our logo box off of besties on it.
54:46
SPEAKER_03: Besties, beasties, we're all friends.
54:49
unknown: Yeah.
54:50
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, so the next time.
54:52
SPEAKER_03: Oh, and we're gonna launch this this week.
54:54
SPEAKER_03: Uh, we got a lot of the queue, not to worry.
54:57
SPEAKER_02: And I'm so excited.
54:59
SPEAKER_02: I'm excited too to finally start.
55:01
SPEAKER_02: And we're not gonna miss any weeks while you're gone because we have enough in store to keep them going every week.
55:07
SPEAKER_02: This is gonna come out every Thursday, and we really hope you enjoyed it.
55:11
SPEAKER_02: And if you did, please tell a friend and maybe give us a rating or a shout out.
55:16
SPEAKER_02: Let us know what books you're interested in and what you might want to hear book-wise or movie-wise.
55:21
SPEAKER_02: We'd love to hear from you.
55:23
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
55:24
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, and have a great day.
55:26
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
55:28
SPEAKER_02: And at that, I'm gonna take us out with our little outro that Kim loves to pop to.
55:38
SPEAKER_03: Feel free to just bop around at your car and your seat or stand up.
55:42
SPEAKER_03: All right.