Latest / Uncensored Objection / [Podcast Episode] The Insurrection Act: The 218-Year-Old Law That Could Undermine American Democracy

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[Podcast Episode] The Insurrection Act: The 218-Year-Old Law That Could Undermine American Democracy · Uncensored Objection

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so today we're diving into something pretty heavy, pretty serious.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: And this all started,
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 0:07
  we were looking at this article over at Mitch Jackson's
• 0:11
  Uncensored Objection Substack,
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: and he was talking about some breaking political news.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: And it really just kind of hit us,
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: like given everything going on right now,
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: especially with President Trump in office,
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: this is something,
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: this particular law,
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_03: it just feels super important.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's incredibly relevant right now.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:33
  So in this deep dive,
• 0:35
  what we're going to try and do is break down this law.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 0:37
  We're going to look at it,
• 0:39
  you know,
• 0:40
  really clearly explain what this thing is.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: what it's all about,
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: the history of it,
• 0:46
  how it works and why it's something that we all really need to
• 0:50
  be paying attention to.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right now.
• 0:52
  And we're not going to get,
• 0:53
  you know,
• 0:54
  too broke down in the legal mumbo jumbo.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: The point is not to, you know, just throw legal jargon around.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's to give you actionable, usable knowledge.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: about this really powerful piece of legislation.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: It is kind of wild, though, right?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, just thinking about it.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: This is a law that's been around for, what, over 200 years?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Over two centuries, yeah.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so many people, you know, haven't even heard of it.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Most Americans have no idea.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: But it has this, like...
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's incredible.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: A huge potential impact.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: On the whole bubble.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: It could fundamentally alter.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: Balance of power.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: The balance of power in this country.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: In the whole country.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's pretty crazy.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, especially given how divided things are politically.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, like understanding this law.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just some theoretical exercise.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not just like, oh, this is interesting.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is about recognizing that there's this like live wire.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Sitting there that could be activated by the president.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Just like that.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: With a signature.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: OK.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: So big deal.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: What is this thing?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: What is the Insurrection Act?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like, really, what is it?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So at its core, the Insurrection Act, it was enacted way back in 1807.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been around for a while.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And basically,
• 2:11
  it's a federal law that allows the President of the United
• 2:15
  States to actually
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: deploy troops,
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: active duty military,
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: or to federalize the National Guard.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And this can happen within the borders of the U.S.
• 2:26
  to put down things like civil disorder,
• 2:28
  insurrection,
• 2:29
  rebellion,
• 2:29
  things like that.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:31
  So it's really about the president having this authority to use
• 2:37
  force like federal
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: force when things get really bad inside the country.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like serious unrest.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Serious unrest.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
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  And the idea is that it's when the states or the local
• 2:47
  governments can't handle it.
• 2:49
  can't or won't yeah or won't exactly wow and this is all
• 2:52
  codified in you know legal
• 2:54
  terms title 10 of the u.s code sections 251 through 255 okay
• 2:59
  and and it's really
• 3:01
  broad you know the scope of this thing and and what mitch was
• 3:03
  pointing out over on
• 3:04
  his Substack is like this is a big deal right because the
• 3:07
  president can just decide
• 3:09
  okay like i'm sending in the troops that's even if a state's
• 3:12
  governor is like no we
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: don't want that
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: That is the key point here.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter what the state wants.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: The president can unilaterally decide.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: that a situation justifies using federal troops.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you think about that.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pretty huge power vested in one person.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: The power to send combat-ready troops onto American streets.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: Onto the streets?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Just let that sink in for a second.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: That is a big deal.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: So what are the, like, the specific circumstances when it can be used?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what are the triggers?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so the act actually outlines three main conditions.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the first one is when a state government,
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: like their legislature or the governor,
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: if the legislature can't get together,
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: they formally ask for help.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: They say, hey, we need federal assistance to suppress an insurrection.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: To stop an insurrection.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and this is under the U.S.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Code Section 251.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: OK, so that seems pretty straightforward, right?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, pretty much.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: If a state's got like a massive riot going on.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: They can't handle it.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: Call for help.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: They can request that federal support.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: OK, what's the second one?
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  So the second one is when the enforcement of federal laws is
• 4:29
  being blocked.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: OK.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, federal laws are there.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: But they're being obstructed in some way.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:36
  And local authorities are either unable or unwilling to restore
• 4:41
  order and let those
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: laws be carried out.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, interesting.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: So imagine a situation where,
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 4:49
  you have local law enforcement and they're just refusing to
• 4:52
  enforce a federal law,
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: like an environmental regulation,
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: for example.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Even though there's, you know, court orders and everything.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, wow.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: They're just like, nope, not doing it.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so if federal laws are being defied?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: And the local authorities are like, yeah, whatever.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: The president can step in.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: Got it.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's the second condition.
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  SPEAKER_03: Okay, what's the third condition?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so the third one is all about protecting civil rights.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: So this is when you have rebellion or domestic violence.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  And it's actually preventing citizens from exercising their
• 5:23
  constitutional rights.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the state government, they're either failing to act.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Or they're straight up refusing to protect those rights.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: Okay,
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: so to put this in plain English for everyone,
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: the president can act if federal laws are just being ignored.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: If there's just chaos that local authorities can't handle.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: Or if states are letting people's rights get violated.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: Got it.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great summary.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all about addressing this really serious unrest.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: Which can be, you know, widespread lawlessness.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
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  SPEAKER_00: We might call that civil disorder.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: Or it could be, you know, organized attempts to overthrow the government.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like a real insurrection or rebellion.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: But the key here is that while these conditions are outlined.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Mm hmm.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's ultimately up to the president to decide if they've been met.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a judgment call.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a judgment call.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: OK, so let's get into the history.
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  SPEAKER_03: When has this actually been used?
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  So it's interesting because the Insurrection Act has been
• 6:30
  around for a long time.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: Over 200 years.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: More than two centuries.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: But it hasn't actually been invoked that often.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's been used sparingly.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And almost always in these really major national crises.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: OK.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Not for like everyday law enforcement stuff.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_03: Got it.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's the big stuff.
• 6:49
  So in the material that we were looking at,
• 6:51
  they kind of grouped the historical uses.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought that was helpful.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: Can we walk through some of those?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:58
  Just to kind of give everyone a sense of when this has been
• 7:01
  considered necessary.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: So let's start with the early 1800s up to the 1870s.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Back then, the act was mainly used to, you know, put down rebellions.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Secure the union.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:13
  Like in 1814,
• 7:14
  President Madison used federal troops to deal with rioting in Baltimore.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: During the War of 1812.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then in the 1850s,
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: it was used to enforce that very controversial Fugitive Slave Act against
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: resistance in a few states.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And of course,
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: during the Civil War in the 1860s,
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: President Lincoln famously used it to,
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: fight the Confederacy.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And put down that rebellion,
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: which was obviously a huge thing to the very existence of the nation.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: So in those early uses,
• 7:50
  it was really about holding the country together and enforcing
• 7:55
  federal law,
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: even when there was a lot of opposition,
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of pushback.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Then we move into the period after the Civil War,
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: during Reconstruction,
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: and in the fight for racial justice.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And a really big example here is 1871, President Ulysses S. Grant.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the Ku Klux Klan Act.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Mm hmm.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: So Grant used the Insurrection Act to fight the Klan.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because they were using violence and intimidation.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And he wanted to enforce civil rights in South Carolina.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Mm hmm.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this actually led to the arrest of hundreds of Klansmen.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a pretty significant use of federal power.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: To protect the rights of black citizens.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Who are facing this, you know.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Horrible racial terrorism.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: So so even in that situation where it seems like a clear case of,
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: protecting civil rights,
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: were there debates back then?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: About like how much power the federal government should have.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, step in even in a situation like that.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: There were definitely debates about.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, federal overreach.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And states' rights and all that.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 9:05
  But I think for many people,
• 9:08
  the need to protect those citizens from that kind of violence.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Trumped.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: It really outweighed those concerns.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: OK.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, as we move into the 20th century.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: We see it used in the context of the civil rights movement.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And also during periods of urban unrest.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: Give us some examples from that time.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: So like in 1957.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: President Eisenhower.
• 9:33
  Famously sent troops to Little Rock,
• 9:35
  Arkansas to enforce school desegregation.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: At Central High School.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: And this was against the wishes of the governor.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Governor Faubus.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then in 1962, President Kennedy used it to protect James Meredith.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: When he was integrating the University of Mississippi.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there were really violent riots.
• 9:56
  And then President Johnson also used it in 1965 during those
• 10:00
  Selma to Montgomery marches.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Another huge moment.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Really pivotal moment in the civil rights movement.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: And later,
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: in 1967,
• 10:10
  Johnson used it again to respond to those widespread riots in
• 10:15
  cities like Detroit
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: and D.C.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally in 1992, President George H.W.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Bush used it during the L.A.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: riots after the Rodney King verdict.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:25
  So it's pretty remarkable to see how many different situations
• 10:30
  this act has been invoked in.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: From outright rebellion to protecting people's fundamental rights.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it really shows you the weight of this law.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: So how does all of that history inform how we think about it today?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: Especially with all the political stuff going on.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: it's crucial to understand because in the past,
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: those uses of the act were often tied to these very clear.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like extreme situations.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: But the political climate today.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: It raises new questions because things are less clear cut.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's it's not as simple anymore.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that brings us to, you know... The more recent past.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: The more recent past.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: 2020.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: 2020, exactly.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: The protests and everything.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, after the murder of George Floyd.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there were those nationwide protests.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And President Trump at the time,
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: he actually said publicly that he might invoke the Insurrection Act.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And even though he didn't end up doing it,
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: just the fact that it was even considered was a really big deal.
• 11:41
  It really brought to light how a president might use this act
• 11:46
  in a political way,
• 11:48
  even if there wasn't widespread violence trying to overthrow
• 11:51
  the government.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a really concerning moment.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: And it's interesting because a lot of the governors were against it.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Many governors were opposed.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: And there was even like unease within the military.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: There were reports of real concern.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we're not sure about this.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Within the military itself,
• 12:12
  it highlighted this possibility that the act could be used to
• 12:17
  bypass state authority.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: And basically militarize the response to protests.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: And then, of course, January 6th, 2021.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, another date.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: Which is, you know.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's going to be in the history books.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: There was speculation about that, too, right?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: There was.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: In relation to the Insurrection Act.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of talk.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: After the Capitol riot.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:40
  About whether President Trump had considered or even intended
• 12:44
  to use the Insurrection Act.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: To try and stay in power.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to potentially stay in power.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: Or delay the certification of the election.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Or at least delay things.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's important to note there's no proof that it was actually invoked.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: But the fact that it was even a possibility.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: That people were talking about it.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Really shows you how vulnerable this law is.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:09
  And how it could be interpreted or used in ways that could
• 13:12
  really challenge our democracy.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:14
  Okay,
• 13:14
  so that brings us to,
• 13:16
  you know,
• 13:18
  why is there this concern that it's too powerful?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: What's wrong with it in its current form?
• 13:26
  So the main worry is that there just aren't enough checks and
• 13:30
  balances on the
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: president's power to use this act.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Unlike other big government actions,
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: the president doesn't need Congress's approval to trigger this.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's just the president.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: If the president's call.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And there's not even a requirement to notify the courts.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: And once it's in effect...
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's no real oversight.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like they just do it.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, basically.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, a decision that could have huge consequences.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: For the country, for people's lives.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Can be made by one person.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: With very little oversight.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: So it really does come down to.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: It really does.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: The president's discretion.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: The president's judgment.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: OK.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: we have the Posse Comitatus Act,
• 14:15
  which generally says the military can't be used for domestic
• 14:18
  law enforcement.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: But the Insurrection Act.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is a big exception to that.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of people are worried about this.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:26
  Legal scholars,
• 14:27
  military officials,
• 14:29
  members of Congress from both sides of the aisle.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: They see it as like a blank check.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: That a president could use to, you know, suppress dissent.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Or limit people's rights.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Under the guise of restoring order.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's scary.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: It is a bit scary.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:45
  And what's even more striking is that this law hasn't really
• 14:48
  changed much since the
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: 19th century.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's pretty outdated.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: There have been talks about reforming it.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: There have.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: What are some of the ideas being floated?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of people are saying we need to modernize this thing.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: To address these problems.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: So one idea is that the president should have to notify Congress.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, OK.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Or even get their approval.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe within a certain time frame.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like 72 hours after invoking the act.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: OK.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then there are discussions about defining things more clearly.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Insurrection.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Civil disorder.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because those are pretty broad terms.
• 15:27
  Yeah,
• 15:27
  they're very broad and they could be used to,
• 15:29
  you know,
• 15:30
  misinterpret things.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:32
  And then another idea is giving the courts the power to review
• 15:38
  whether the act is
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: actually justified.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, OK.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do the conditions on the ground really warrant using this thing?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally, there are proposals for more transparency.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, why are we deploying troops?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: When exactly is this happening?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: What are the plans?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: Some accountability.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Accountability.
• 15:59
  So it seems like there's a pretty broad agreement that this law
• 16:02
  needs to be updated.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: There is.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's outdated.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:06
  It needs to reflect our modern democracy and the importance of
• 16:10
  checks and balances on power.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: So why should all of this matter to our listeners?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like beyond the legalities.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Why is this important for people to know about?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: This isn't just some abstract legal theory.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's about what kind of country we want to live in.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's about whether we're OK with using the military.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: To settle political arguments here at home.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: And the way the law is written now.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: It gives one person.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of power.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: With very little oversight.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: With very little oversight.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: And that could mean that some of our most basic rights,
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: like the right to protest,
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: the right to vote.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: The right to speak our moms.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Those could be overridden.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a problem.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not just, you know, like a left or right thing.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: People on both sides are worried about this, right?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is about protecting the rule of law and the balance of power.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's what makes our democracy work.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the goal is to fix this law.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Before it's used in a bad way.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: To be proactive.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Proactive.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: So to kind of sum up our deep dive here.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: The Insurrection Act is this really powerful law.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's old.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: It is old.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: It gives the president the power to deploy the military here in the U.S.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: Under certain circumstances.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: But there aren't a lot of checks and balances.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Very few.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: So understanding this, its history, how it can be used.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe even more importantly, how it could be misused.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: Is really important.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's crucial for every American to understand this.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: For everyone to understand.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's about our democracy.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it makes you think, right?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 17:51
  Like in these crazy political times we're in,
• 17:54
  what does it mean to have this law on the books?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: What are the implications?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: What safeguards do we need to prevent this power from being misused?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's a big question.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Big questions.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: For all of us to think about.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: And for more on this,
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 18:09
  and for other insightful analysis on what's happening in the
• 18:13
  political landscape.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 18:15
  Make sure you head over to Mitch Jackson's Uncensored
• 18:18
  Objections Substack.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great resource.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: You can subscribe, share the articles, and leave your comments.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Get involved in the conversation.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for joining us for this deep dive.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, everyone.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: We'll see you next time.