Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Prayer as a Conversation | with Jennifer Camp

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Prayer as a Conversation | with Jennifer Camp · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: It means so much to have you choose to take this conversation along with you today.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Amy Wicks, your host, and here at Simply Wholehearted, we provide perspective, purpose, and plans to help you love God, love others, and live your best life.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guest is Jennifer Camp with Gather Ministries.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: She and her husband went through a broken-hearted season in their marriage, but when they came out on the other side, they saw a need in their community who were going through an experience like theirs.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now, she and her husband have shared what they did in their local community, and it's gone global thanks in large part to podcasting.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're talking about prayer, the battle with shame, and of course, the Enneagram.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, if you're new to the Enneagram and need to know the best place to begin, head on over to simply wholehearted.com where you can find my Enneagram Quick Start Guide and my one-page summary, which gives you an overview of all nine Enneagram types.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is a perfect way to follow along with the conversation.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: And now you can learn about what the Enneagram can do for you, what it is, what it's not, and all nine types in less than 30 minutes.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: My Easy Enneagram 101 course is only the price of a fancy cup of coffee, and you'll be confident you are on the right track of your Enneagram journey.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Stay tuned for lots more Easy Enneagram material.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: And a shout out to Jessamine and Ru for the lovely music you're hearing in the background.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Now here's my conversation with Jennifer Camp.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you're doing this in the midst of raising kids and just having a thriving, busy family.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: What led you to kind of start this prayer movement almost?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, just I'm kind of curious to know the backstory.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um so gather ministries.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: We started about hmm, I guess seven years ago.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it really happened because um my husband and I were both, we had we were leading couples ministry.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: We were kind of naturally kind of leading and really enjoying the community around us.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: But my husband, he where we've been living in California for this long, started because um he was a venture capitalist.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I used to teach a little bit um high school, but haven't done that for many years.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um and he just became really unhappy with his work at the same time, where I was also super unhappy with my situation.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: I had believed for most of my life that I needed to do everything and be successful at everything to be happy, which meant that as much as I wanted to be a really good mom, I thought that that wasn't enough.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Man, gotta witness.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds like a three struggle.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so we were at a time of kind of just crisis.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: My writing started where I just I was leading a group of women kind of outside the the normal structures of women's ministry where I just wanted to have a little bit more freedom, less rules, few, fewer kind of things I had to do, and I wanted room for the Holy Spirit to move.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so it that needed to look so that I kind of I loved the ministry that I was involved in, but I needed to kind of just uh just have space.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so I invited women over to my house, started to um just see what the Holy Spirit had wanted to do, and I found myself just loving these women in a way that um in a deep way that I thought would only be possible um with people I'd known for many, many years.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: But um I was drawn to them and I was drawn to writing for them and drawn to praying for them.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And this was happening while Justin wanted a job change.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so um and uh I was writing and started a blog prompted by this group, and he started to write on the side, and we kind of just came together and looked at each other, like, you know what?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: We are kind of writing about the same thing.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you're running to men, um, you're running to women, let's um let's do this, let's, you know, drop everything.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it was pretty it felt really risky.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was much more comfortable having a steady income, knowing that there was money coming in certain times of yeah, every month.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the idea of fundraising wasn't such a fun idea for me either.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Or I'm just like, oh great, so we don't know how we're gonna pay the bills, but we get to ask people if, hey, do you want to help us?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: And we will yeah, it was um quite the leap of faith.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we just and we've been really um excited and surprised by God's just he's allowing us to stay here.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of this is not the cheapest place to live.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: California is not cheap, not land of the cheap.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right around here, it's just like the land of Google and Facebook and go, go, go, and just like a lot of um people just just things are moving pretty fast.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And but I feel like he's he's made it possible for us to stay here.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I feel like this is where our and we're open to moving anywhere.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a job where we have to stay, but yet um yeah, it's where he seems to have he's had us here.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we're just we're loving it.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: We're really, really grateful that we get to do this together.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now, gather ministry seems something that was birthed out of kind of a grassroots local type of vision.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: How did you and why maybe what led you exactly to take it bigger than that, or you know, kind of how did the Lord breathe on it that allowed you to take it out of the grassroots?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: That is that is an interesting question.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I it's one of those things where we just took one step and just the biggest thing that kind of the things that we there's two things we created that kind of have been the bedrock and God has had favor on these things that we've written.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And one, they're two devotionals, and they were one is for men and one's for women, and one's for men's called wire, and one for women is called loop.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: And they don't really create it as an experiment where we're like, there are these men and women that we would love to reach out to, but they're super busy, and we don't want to change their behavior, we don't want to be the voices who are saying, slow down, do something different.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we want God to speak those things and for them to respond to them.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: But how do we and so we didn't want to kind of create another thing for them to do?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: We wanted an offering, a way to encourage them and where they were, but not to kind of overwhelm them too.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so, Loop, what came about where I from the same way that I was praying for the women in my group, I was starting to become drawn to the women that I couldn't see face to face.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, God, what do you want to say to them?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and who are they?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: And if we together, if I in prayer listened to your voice for them, um, like, what do you want to say to them?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then what would happen if I mailed send it out?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was really just those kind of like, I wonder if, I wonder what will happen.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: What if, what if?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I love that it wasn't a big grand plan.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like, we are going to reach thousands of people around the world just twice a week um for free by doing this.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was really like, I don't know, let's see what happens.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what um, and Justin, the who my husband who does the men's um devotional, it's very different.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's very, it's very much his personality, while Lupe is my personality and and wire, yeah, very straightforward, let's go, very practical.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which so that is we've learned many lessons along the way of what it's like to force things and to kind of um decide what we think is good for gather ministries rather than kind of one step in front of the other, and um, that continues to be how people are drawn to what we do.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh, that's so good.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think you and I need to have a coffee later on.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've got some more questions for you.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's so good.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the things that I noted is that it seems that you view prayer as a conversation.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Not everyone feels that way.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: So for you, was there like a broken-hearted moment or a moment of revelation or realization that you were like, oh, oh man, you know, this whole-hearted thing, wholehearted living requires me to view prayer as a conversation.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um that moment is actually one that is very is something I can see in my mind.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because it was a it it's it sticks with me.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: I love how God sometimes gives us those visuals in our memories that we can hang on to to like forget this.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um He kind of solidifies that.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: And this this is a memory I've returned to again and again, but now with much more understanding.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: But at the time, it was probably um my daughter's about three, so about 10 years ago.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I, it was a point of crisis, it was a point of desperation.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um really hard in my marriage.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: This is before Gather Ministry started.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: We were going different directions.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Again, Justin was really unhappy with his job, but didn't know it.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was working hard to try to prove myself, try to not, I wasn't admitting that at the time, but was trying to just trying to prove that I could be more than um just kind of taking care of the kids, taking care of the family.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: I had kind of convinced myself that that wasn't enough.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And there's nothing, and so I what I mean by that is like I wish I didn't feel I had something to prove.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because the way I went about pursuing that wasn't healthy.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I was leading women's ministry at our church.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: That was it was a it was a great thriving group where wit lots of women were um just being vulnerable and it was open and it was, but I remember I was just I was coming at it from an inauthentic place, um, where I was up there with the mic, um talking about not having it all together, but trying so hard to look like I do.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: All together, right?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so when that push and pull going on um in someone's heart, like the people around them are gonna feel it.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And Justin felt that.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so he would come home just kind of exhausted, and then I and so when he was home, that's when I would be able to start my work, the things I needed to do in the evening.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we were going different directions for a long time.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember one time, so it just things just went down.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: I remember all the kids were in school or in preschool, and I just lay down on my family room floor, knees, just head on the floor, knees on the ground, and going, God, I do not know how to love anyone well.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm jumping, I'm through all these hoops, I'm trying really hard, and I just feel like a big fake.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: I just feel like everything I was doing was an authentic, and I started to question my own ability to love.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Just that I knew what it was supposed to look like.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, I thought I did.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was crying out to him, and I felt like I was hitting a wall where I'm like, I felt really, really alone.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, I had known him.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: I had a I would say that before this moment, I had known, I thought I knew who Godwit was, but I didn't have a relationship with him.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that regard, I didn't he, I didn't think, didn't think of him as a father or a friend.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: He was someone that I thought I believed in the idea of him loving me, but I didn't know what it meant to love him.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: But all of a sudden, it's like, I need you to be real now.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: I am desperate for something, for someone to come and save me.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, you have to speak.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: I I um for someone who's also doubted her voice for most of her life, growing up really shy, afraid of speaking in public, afraid of even having sharing my opinion, for me to be telling God this and expecting that He would love me enough to speak back.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: It must have been the Holy Spirit just kind of prompting me to like ask because it doesn't make sense to look back at it.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm just like, if you love me, I just I just need to hear, you know, have you come through here?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I just felt like I needed to pause.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so I happened to do a lot of my processing through writing, and so I had a journal in front of me, and so I just paused, and then I just what I heard when the thoughts from in my mind that I know were from him.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm just like, I'm gonna believe this is you.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna believe that's how it started.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: It just kind of like this has to be you because I would not come up with like this kindness on my own, this kind of this love for me on my own.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that was the moment where things were just kind of felt really broken around me.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started to cling to him in a way that just brought life and hope.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's beautiful.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: I love that testimony, and it obviously was just the catalyst for so much more after that.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, but for you, help help us all understand here too, because we talk a lot in Enneagram coaching and understanding your type, and the power of understanding your type is that you are going to be able to live free from the mask that you wear.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And for you, some of that, and for our type is the striving and the desire for success and the desire to accomplish, and the um even the the masquerade sometimes or you know, that we put on in order to, like you said, look like we have it all together.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: And and our core type doesn't change as we become more wholehearted, but it it does shift and it does require us to constantly live in a state of freedom.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: So for you or or how do you coach others to live in freedom on a daily basis from who they once were and even maybe a core tendency to who we could be wholehearted in Christ as.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it comes down, like for me, it's so simple, but it's like the hardest thing I ever do is allowing God to love me.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like when I found out it's only a few years ago that I was a three, I I mean, I took the I took the test, I read the books, I just wanted to be any other number.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Me and me both sister.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: I denied it for a good year.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it was helpful when I realized that threes do have a propensity to, you know, for shame, and that is kind of one of the what so it is, it was nice and I think it started to make more sense.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, yes, totally.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm fine with their numbers.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, well, that number, of course.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: But um and so I think that for whatever type we are, it comes down to letting God love who we are, letting us see ourselves through his eyes.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know that because my kind of tendency is to kind of get things done and let's be efficient and let's go and let's push.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I remember I could even take that kind of stance to worship.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, God, I'm here, I'm ready to go.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want to do?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let's Right.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's the worst.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, come on.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: I am ready to love you.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: Look at this, and it's so ridiculous.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I kind of came.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: I realized it was like a year or so ago when I kind of sat down with that posture, and he's so kind.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he's like, Oh my gosh, you're so ridiculous, I'm sure.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: And he I I kind of quiet down, chill out, and he he just starts repeating, I love you.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Okay, great.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, got it.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go, got it.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so how how can I best have my heart open to you?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want to do me today?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: I should confess.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I love you.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, wow, and I'm like, and I I push back on that.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: I continue to kind of wrestle with that.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like where I didn't want to let that reality in, like the depth of that, the depth of those words, like it is the biggest ocean I could ever swim in.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's unending.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I had made those words so small, I'd made them made them meaningless.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I had kind of wanted to define them for myself.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, my definition of love is not going to be God's.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that ever our our wholeheartedness is God to be kind of rooted in who He says he is, he we are, who what He sees in us, the truth of His love for us, and for to allow ourselves space to let that reality sink in in some of the ways that another thing that was is hard for me is to kind of in the terms of when we it can be so easy when we toss out the words like I heard God's voice, or or people get frustrated, oh I didn't hear him speak to me, or why does he speak to you?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I just feel like we that word speech, like the word his voice, it's heard.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: It does, it's not necessarily like I feel like we put limits on that too.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: So like it's yeah, and so I feel like how we are uniquely made, like the things we love to do, whether that's running or walking or sitting or helping or just all of the amazing, like doing the dishes, uh, walking the dog, all of I don't know, speaking, all the all the things that if we can't engage our hearts and and allow him to show us in the ways, the things that we love, um, how that brings him delight too.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: I just feel like so I feel like it's just kind of the combination of letting him in, um, working on being aware enough about our uniqueness to let him speak and then engage in those practices that um allow our hearts just to receive him um throughout the day.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Living as beloved, right?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think when we can really accept the gospel message for ourselves and we live from that place, it will help us.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: But we do have to do this every day.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think we do have to sign up every day to lose the mask and accept what he has, um, which isn't always easy.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: No, for sure not.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: I keep waiting.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: I hate I when I learned what the word sanctification means, I hate it.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that is the worst word ever.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Can I just be done?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: I know, right, right.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you keep on going?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Amy Carroll and I were just talking as well, and just this idea for me, and I I'm turning 40 this year, so I know that there's something like about that big milestone that often causes us to reflect or have epiphanies because we're like, oh, halftime, right?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: But one of them was this idea that I think I've lived my whole spiritual life thinking the goal is to become more independent from God.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: And instead, in reality, and even as I'm, you know, even in my study of the Enneagram, the whole point is we become more dependent on the Lord, and we realize how much we need him and that we do have to come every day, and there's there's actually no shame, and the Lord loves it, and He's not wanting us to be able to just do it on our own and muster it up and arrive in this perfection.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's um that is a struggle for me to just accept that every day.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's always so nice to know that we're not the only ones.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, thank you.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: So for the loop and the wire podcasts and material and content, I'd love to know if you could give us a peek behind the curtain and what are what would we be in for if we tune in and subscribe or we download some of the stuff.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: What are the the specific resources that or what we could maybe even gain um from participating in the ministry that you guys have going on there?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I um so after Loop was written, was was created um and and offered, I realized that because it's really just um the other side of a prayer conversation, which is what Lupe is.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if it's like what he what I heard him say in response in prayer.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like we could each hear his voice in prayer.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what I happened to hear and wanted, would love to share with people for them.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And after that I realized that I was people would respond to me in email saying how much they were were loving hearing him speak to them.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like they were going through this and this and I would get these really touching, beautiful stories.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm really, wow, there's so many stories God that are unheard.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: And for me who struggles most of my life was a great wound is just having my voice and having God rescue me from believing I didn't have one.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to tell the stories of to let other women's voices shine and let their stories out in the open and to show kind of the other part of the conversation.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I wrote a book called Breathing Eden where there are 40 conversations where the women's stories kick off each chapter.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you'll hear so instead of just hearing his response which is what poop is okay it's hearing the story that preceded it that prompted the response.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because in and also but then when I was done writing that I realized that wow there's more here because someone could just read these conversations but how could they enter in because I wanted whether a woman has gone through this situation or another situation, I God has something for us to learn and an opportunity to engage with him.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so then I that became part of the project where I wanted to offer exercises just ways to engage our hearts and so and um so when that project was done it felt really good.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like really needed was an opportunity there's not only are these conversations here where we feel like all these stories are being recognized and God's speaking into the hardest um places of our lives but we're allowing other people we're how we are allowed as readers to how to engage in those stories ourselves.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: But um I felt like so but when with Justin and I he he writes books for men and I'm for women and um we looked at loop and looked at wire and looked how different they were and we're like you know what there's something more here.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like how do we similar to Breathe Eden how do we get people to engage with his voice?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: How do we get them to just have time to really just listen and pause and do the hard thing of confession and letting him into those those places in our hearts that are just hurting.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so we started a podcast called Rush and it's Holy Spirit in modern life and it's Justin and me together where it's kind of the prophetic voice of Luke but with the practical part of wire.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: So you when you do you listen you're hearing him speaking uh what I he what I heard him say to us and I'm sharing that but then there's the like all right well how do we enter into this how do we enter into this message?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: What do we do with it?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so that's something that it's a one-year audio devotional yeah that uh we just love I just feel like it's just I'm kind of doing what I love to do with God and Justin's doing what he loves to do and uh we survive doing it together.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's beautiful I just I just think it's amazing and there's not a lot of this out there.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: And for some people it might be a completely different experience than you've ever had with prayer before but I would really encourage those of my friends who are listening and are tuning into this that there could be something in this for you.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean more of the prophetic voice of the Lord and hearing his words over us who's gonna argue with that who doesn't want more of that yeah it's just always good.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: He's always it's gonna surprise he always surprises me just how good he is oh yeah no that's so that's it's beautiful.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well but what are maybe three practical things that our friends can do today to implement life giving prayer practices in their own home on their couch or in their bed or you know in their prayer closet or as they're driving to and fro all the kids' soccer practices and all the things that they have on their plate.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: For me who has trouble stopping and slowing I have to start with just simply breathing like just being just as just like I had trouble accepting that God's I love you meant more than just words.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: I remember when I would go to church and there would be those songs talking about his breath and him being in us and I just feel like actually being aware of my body my mind my heart stopping and allowing him to just help me be aware of how I'm feeling whether physically mentally emotionally allowing him so stopping and pausing and giving him space to come in before I even utter a word before I even try to articulate what's on my heart just um not even trying to listen so much to him as just like be with him I guess.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah that's good.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah but um the other thing I as someone who struggles to know her own emotions and struggles like I've been in psychotherapy the past year and I would try to game it and be like okay I gotta come with a plan I gotta come it's not a business because I know how I feel and that was the whole job.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: And right and uh so I have been finding that if you have if a person has trouble being present in their prayers and being present talking to God and um it doesn't necessarily have to look like journaling.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: For me right now it looks like poetry.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: It helps me discover what my emotions are but I think simply um for those who don't like to write who don't like to do those types of things it's simply just like do what you love to do and recognize that he made you to love that and he's in it with you.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that can be a prayer I just I just want to break kind of break all the rules as to what prayer is supposed to look like and just just I don't let him show us and surprise us um just so many different ways that we can experience him so that we don't make him small.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: That is great.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think we can all invite the Lord into that I mean for me sometimes it looks like walking and you know what I always think of in the garden him I think that's what it's called but just that idea of he just he wants to walk and talk with me and he's fine with me being up and around and moving and it doesn't always look like on my face before the Lord or in a kneeling position or a sitting position.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: He delights in all of it as long as I'm there to be with him.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well thank you Jennifer thank you for sharing your heart and it sounds just just an amazing story that you and your husband get to do this together and I can tell that the Lord is absolutely blessing it and breathing on it and taking it far on ride to the into the earth really um for you guys and I know that you're making an impact that you may not even see on this side of heaven but for certainly in eternity it's gonna be amazing to see the stories that you you know get to be told and the thank yous of encouraging people into the kingdom of God.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: You were the sweetest that's gonna be really fun we get to heaven isn't it it's just gonna be awesome.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I gotta believe it.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's all those unseen moments that we get to celebrate in heaven because we didn't maybe even realize they were happening here on earth.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that's amazing.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you Amy it's an awesome talking to another three and being encouraged I agree it's always fine to find Are you ready to get those weekly loop emails and check out the Rush podcast?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well I'm a fellow subscriber and I'm encouraged every time I read and listen.
• 30:32
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• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't yet joined Simply Wholehearted on Instagram then hop on over to the Enneagram conversation and be inspired to live your best wholehearted life.
• 30:46
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• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: This helps others know that they are welcome here and what to expect in our conversations.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Next week's episode is going to be with Courtney DeFeo Courtney has a passion for reaching the next generation in mind, body and spirit and she believes this begins in our home.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Her new treasured study is a six-session experience for moms and tween daughters.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: This study covers identity body emotions friendship technology and faith it is beautifully designed and initiates meaningful connection and purposeful conversations between mom and daughters.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so looking forward to sharing this conversation with you.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: So until next week let's invite others to join us as we pursue perspective purpose and plans for a simply wholehearted life