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The Fat Leonard Scandal · Conspiracy! The Show

0:10
Speaker 1: Welcome to Conspiracy The Show, the world's most trusted conspiracy
0:16
Speaker 1: dary podcast, with your hosts Adam Todd Brown and Olivia Hidar.
0:32
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy the Show. I'm Adam Todd Brown.
0:39
Speaker 3: And I'm Olivia Hidar, and that would make.
0:42
Speaker 2: Us your hosts. Olivia, how's it going.
0:45
Speaker 3: It's going well, it's going well. Fall seems to be
0:49
Speaker 3: finally turning its head.
0:51
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Fall, what is bottom?
0:55
Speaker 3: It's a kind of in between season that comes between summer.
0:58
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, season, what are you?
1:01
Speaker 3: Yeah? Seasons it's like, you know, so the Earth it's
1:04
Speaker 3: tilted on its radio axis.
1:07
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean science is out on that. I
1:10
Speaker 2: think we've we've got some episodes planned, but okay, agreed,
1:15
Speaker 2: agree to disagree. Seasons I've heard.
1:17
Speaker 3: They yeah, no, I mean they do just kind of
1:21
Speaker 3: not as much anymore.
1:24
Speaker 2: They barely. Unfortunately, I like that I don't have seasons anymore.
1:28
Speaker 2: It's fine. I never know what time of year it is.
1:30
Speaker 2: It's amazing.
1:31
Speaker 3: I mean, I miss I love the weather. When I
1:34
Speaker 3: lived in La it was it was the best. But
1:37
Speaker 3: I will say, disposition wise, I am just so much
1:42
Speaker 3: better suited to like Fall it's.
1:45
Speaker 2: Just like, I mean, is pretty great.
1:47
Speaker 3: Yeah. Like, and like all of my clothes basically are
1:51
Speaker 3: tailored to fall or like wintery fall type of things.
1:58
Speaker 2: Guy, I like when jacket season roll around in La.
2:01
Speaker 3: Yeah. And here's the thing, Like, and I just kind
2:04
Speaker 3: of if I don't wear a sweater or something, I
2:07
Speaker 3: kind of feel naked. And so I'll just like wear
2:12
Speaker 3: sweaters in the summer. It's just hot. It sucks.
2:18
Speaker 2: So we're talking about a scandal today, a military scandal,
2:24
Speaker 2: a military corruption scandal that I'm gonna be honest, I'm
2:29
Speaker 2: not that mad about.
2:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're talking about to be mad about.
2:33
Speaker 2: We're talking about the Fat Leonard scandal. Yeah, which is
2:37
Speaker 2: a I mean, like developing story. It's a new it's
2:39
Speaker 2: a new thing. It's just come out for sure.
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Speaker 3: I mean, like personally, like, I just have a hard
2:44
Speaker 3: time getting too mad about anything I just learned about.
2:48
Speaker 3: And I had never heard of this before you sent
2:51
Speaker 3: me that info.
2:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hadn't heard much about it. It's apparently been
2:56
Speaker 2: brewing for like twenty five years. Yeah, and people have
3:02
Speaker 2: been blowing the whistle about it for about fifteen years.
3:06
Speaker 2: But it's just now this guy had to have done
3:10
Speaker 2: something wrong. This is like one of those cases where
3:13
Speaker 2: someone just has government protection for years and years and
3:18
Speaker 2: years and then all of a sudden they don't, and
3:20
Speaker 2: it's like, all right, what the fuck did you do?
3:22
Speaker 2: Who did you catch doing? Something?
3:25
Speaker 1: Like?
3:26
Speaker 2: What's going on here?
3:27
Speaker 3: He's got some book with like high ranking officials listed
3:31
Speaker 3: in it, with some salacious material or something.
3:35
Speaker 2: We know he had some high level connections because a
3:38
Speaker 2: lot of those people have been arrested in connection to this,
3:42
Speaker 2: but there have to be people above them who finally
3:47
Speaker 2: pulled the trigger on this, and we're like, this guy's
3:49
Speaker 2: gone too fun because this really was a scheme that
3:53
Speaker 2: kind of paid off on both ends. Yeah, the only
3:56
Speaker 2: real victims were the tax payers, and we're always the victim,
4:00
Speaker 2: right I mean?
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Speaker 3: Oh no, slightly more of our money went towards the
4:05
Speaker 3: military and military expenses.
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Speaker 2: Oh no, yeah, I mean compared to a lot of
4:12
Speaker 2: the things are military spending goes toward. I think keeping
4:17
Speaker 2: tie and Filipino sex workers afloat isn't the worst.
4:22
Speaker 3: No, it's like a charity.
4:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, essentially, so the Fat Leonards scandal. The Washington Post
4:31
Speaker 2: called it, quote perhaps the worst national security breach of
4:36
Speaker 2: its kind to hit the Navy since the end of
4:39
Speaker 2: the Cold War and quote and yeah, but I also
4:46
Speaker 2: don't feel like we were put in any danger as
4:49
Speaker 2: a nation over.
4:50
Speaker 3: This, right, No, I mean, national security is just something
4:55
Speaker 3: that gets thrown around for a lot of different reasons.
5:00
Speaker 2: It seems like this guy was just the best at
5:03
Speaker 2: bribing people. And I feel like he's definitely not the
5:07
Speaker 2: only one bribing people. No, but he feels like the
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Speaker 2: Michael Jordan of bribing right.
5:14
Speaker 3: Maybe, Yeah, his sick game was insane.
5:16
Speaker 2: Like this scandal. It involves a ship support contractor called
5:23
Speaker 2: Glenn Defense Marine Asia GDMA, and the company CEO and president,
5:29
Speaker 2: Leonard Glenn Francis aka Fat Leonard. He is the driving
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Speaker 2: force behind this scandal.
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Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, rude, I like, how do
5:41
Speaker 3: you get the moniker fat Leonard?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, wouldn't you, as someone who wielded this much power,
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Speaker 2: demand a better nickname? Like I'd have people killed for
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Speaker 2: calling me Fat Leonard if I was this lake?
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Speaker 3: Do we know the provenance of the name fat Fat Leonard?
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Speaker 2: Well, I mean he weighed like three hundred fifty pounds.
6:00
Speaker 2: But even when I hear that, I'm like, well, how
6:02
Speaker 2: tall was he was?
6:03
Speaker 1: He?
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Speaker 3: Like right. I mean, like I imagine he was hefty,
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Speaker 3: like that part I understood. I just mean, like, did
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Speaker 3: he start calling himself fet Leonard? Did he know that
6:16
Speaker 3: people were calling him fet Leonard?
6:18
Speaker 2: This is how we found out. He's like, yeah, the
6:22
Speaker 2: fuck Leonard scandal.
6:25
Speaker 3: They've ball just called me Glenn.
6:30
Speaker 2: I thought we were bros.
6:35
Speaker 3: See, this is I really would like to know. Nicknames
6:39
Speaker 3: are so street, you know, because like I just think
6:41
Speaker 3: about my frame of reference for nicknames is like lost
6:44
Speaker 3: in the Sopranos, So I'm thinking about, like, you know,
6:49
Speaker 3: big Pussy. You know how big Pussy get big his name.
6:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's got to be quite the story behind it,
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Speaker 2: either that or just someone was like, you're fat, your
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Speaker 2: fat Leonard, Hey Leonard, fat Leonard. I mean, because it's
7:02
Speaker 2: still the military, they're still probably bullying the shit out
7:05
Speaker 2: of this guy.
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Speaker 3: No matter who it was, it was definitely said in
7:08
Speaker 3: the tone of hey, fat Leonard, how's it going.
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Speaker 2: And he was probably like, that's fine. That's what all
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Speaker 2: my friends call me. That's my nickname.
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Speaker 3: No, it's cool, it's cool. Yeah. No, Hey, by the way, here,
7:19
Speaker 3: how about I fleece you for twenty five years? That's fine?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing as a ship support contractor what
7:29
Speaker 2: that means is exactly what it sounds like. The gdma's
7:32
Speaker 2: role was to service ships as they would come into
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Speaker 2: the various ports of the world, and they would restock
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Speaker 2: food and water, do maintenance stuff, things of the like, Sure,
7:45
Speaker 2: and the elevator pitch version of how this scandal worked
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Speaker 2: is that Fat Leonard would bribe members of the Navy's
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Speaker 2: seventh Fleet with cash and travel expenses and luxury items. Prostitute.
8:00
Speaker 2: My god, prostitutes come up so much in this just constantly. Yeah,
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Speaker 2: And in return, they would give Fat Leonard classified information
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Speaker 2: about the movement of US ships and submarines and about
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Speaker 2: any active criminal investigations into Glenn Defense Marine Asia.
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Speaker 3: I just feel like that's a really high price for
8:26
Speaker 3: a prostitute.
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Speaker 2: It does seem the thinking has to be that, well,
8:32
Speaker 2: he's not giving this information to Russia. But also that
8:36
Speaker 2: seems those seem like very risky dice to roll and
8:40
Speaker 2: believing this guy is not giving this information to Russia
8:44
Speaker 2: because for one thing, the first thing he does when
8:47
Speaker 2: he's finally found out is try to flee to Russia.
8:51
Speaker 3: Of course, so I have.
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Speaker 2: To imagine the thinking in giving like this ship movement
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Speaker 2: information was, well, he's just using it to make more
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Speaker 2: money for his ship maintenance company, because that's what he
9:05
Speaker 2: would do. He would take this information about where ships
9:09
Speaker 2: were going to be, and he would use his people
9:11
Speaker 2: inside the Navy to redirect or direct these ships to
9:16
Speaker 2: ports that he controlled. And then when these ships got
9:19
Speaker 2: to these ports, he would way overcharge for various services
9:24
Speaker 2: as a means of builking the Navy, but he would
9:28
Speaker 2: cover it up by bribing people and throwing these elaborate
9:32
Speaker 2: parties and sending people on trips. And like, I don't know,
9:37
Speaker 2: I'm still not that mad at it.
9:39
Speaker 3: I'm not mad at this at all.
9:43
Speaker 2: You seem angry.
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Speaker 3: I'm very I'm pissed. No, But like it just just
9:47
Speaker 3: seemed like very convoluted. I feel like there's a few
9:51
Speaker 3: middle steps in there that we could cut out. Not
9:54
Speaker 3: to know, probably, I mean like it's like we're both
10:00
Speaker 3: riving the Navy. We're first were bribing the Navy to
10:03
Speaker 3: get the information, and then we're bribing the Navy Navy
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Speaker 3: to keep it quiet that we're getting like we're overcharging
10:11
Speaker 3: them for shit. Like I just feel like that's too
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Speaker 3: many bribes let's try and condense this into one bribe.
10:18
Speaker 2: It does seem like a lot of work. Yeah, But
10:21
Speaker 2: also you got to imagine he was probably enjoying all
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Speaker 2: of this himself, because it's not like he would throw
10:27
Speaker 2: these elaborate parties and then be like, all right, I'll
10:29
Speaker 2: be in the manager's office if you need me.
10:32
Speaker 3: I'm sure.
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Speaker 2: Partying with the navy also, I don't know I find one.
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Speaker 2: That's probably how you get the nickname Fat Leonard. Partying
10:39
Speaker 2: with the fucking military.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, And so he.
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Speaker 2: Would, Yeah, he would use that information about ship movements
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Speaker 2: to redirect like aircraft carriers, ships subs to ports he controlled.
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Speaker 2: And it's the scope of this scandal that's really impressive, right,
10:59
Speaker 2: because this is the kind kind of thing that you
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Speaker 2: think would go on for like a year or two
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Speaker 2: and someone would find it out the Seventh Fleet depended
11:07
Speaker 2: on GDMA more than any other firm to refuel and
11:12
Speaker 2: resupply its vessels for twenty five years. That's a long time.
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Speaker 3: It's a very long time. I mean, I feel like,
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Speaker 3: maybe I don't know at that point, are they really
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Speaker 3: taking advantage of you?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it just it kind of seems like this is
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Speaker 2: the contract they wanted to go with. They wanted to
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Speaker 2: go with the party guy.
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Speaker 3: So look, because they're lonely sailors, you know, it's they're
11:44
Speaker 3: out on sea for a long time, easy access to prostitutes.
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Speaker 3: It's probably you know, a desirable benefit to their services.
11:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing. Someone was going to overcharge the
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Speaker 2: Navy for this, and most of them were not going
12:02
Speaker 2: to provide the services that Glenn Defense Marine Asia provided,
12:07
Speaker 2: which was the Party of the Century, but like once
12:11
Speaker 2: a week, right, That's that's my question is how much
12:15
Speaker 2: was he spending on these parties because you hear, like,
12:20
Speaker 2: the thing that keeps coming up is how much he
12:22
Speaker 2: would charge for sewage removal, And it seems like he
12:25
Speaker 2: was like double billing for that. But yeah, like is
12:28
Speaker 2: that enough to cover all of these expenses and still
12:31
Speaker 2: get rich. It's gotta be.
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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, and you have to imagine if this
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Speaker 3: is how he's treating the US Navy, that he probably
12:40
Speaker 3: has similar schemes set up with every like, you know,
12:45
Speaker 3: person in the nearby port who could provide what he
12:49
Speaker 3: needs for a party like this. You know, there's no
12:52
Speaker 3: way he's paying for all that if he's fleecing the Navy.
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Speaker 2: Like this, Yeah, we'll get into it later, but he
12:58
Speaker 2: had contracts with the navies of several different countries, and
13:03
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, yeah, no shit, I wonder, yeah, I
13:06
Speaker 2: wonder how he got those contracts. I wonder what those
13:09
Speaker 2: parties were.
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Speaker 3: Like, it's just funny that a guy named fat Lendard
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Speaker 3: just has access to like who knows how many countries
13:19
Speaker 3: classified naval documents. That's the thing.
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Speaker 2: This has kind of like a Jeffrey Epstein's stink to it,
13:27
Speaker 2: where it's like, yeah, this guy was obviously the key
13:32
Speaker 2: figure in it, but who else was involved in this?
13:36
Speaker 2: Because this he was but a lowly shipping maintenance guy
13:42
Speaker 2: and he had all these connections to like top notch
13:46
Speaker 2: sex workers I'll call them sex workers the Washington Post
13:50
Speaker 2: and system prostitutes. But like, how did he get access
13:55
Speaker 2: to the things he bribed these people with? Like it's
13:58
Speaker 2: like he just had to wear else of Coheba cigars
14:02
Speaker 2: and attractive foreign women willing to have sex with the
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Speaker 2: Navy for money, Like he might have, Yeah, he might have.
14:11
Speaker 3: And yeah, it's just it's wild to think about.
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Speaker 2: And he managed to get moles in at different levels
14:22
Speaker 2: of the Navy. This is a quote from a retired
14:26
Speaker 2: Navy official speaking to The Washington Post, the Soviets couldn't
14:30
Speaker 2: have penetrated us better than Leonard Francis. He's got people
14:34
Speaker 2: skills that are off the scale. He can hook you
14:37
Speaker 2: so fast that you don't see it coming. At one time,
14:40
Speaker 2: he infiltrated the entire leadership line. The KGB could not
14:46
Speaker 2: have done what he did. That to me speaks to
14:50
Speaker 2: something more than just I mean, I know some people
14:53
Speaker 2: are just born naturally charming, but also some people learn
14:57
Speaker 2: it at like the School of the Americas or whatever
15:00
Speaker 2: shadowy CIA cult organization is operating in whatever country. Like
15:08
Speaker 2: he had, he had some pretty remarkable people skills.
15:11
Speaker 3: But I mean, he seems like he was a master
15:13
Speaker 3: of penetration. That Yeah, whoa.
15:18
Speaker 2: Fat Leonard, Master of Penetration Volume N The Cottage Tour.
15:26
Speaker 2: Oh no, fat Leonard.
15:27
Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, yeah, it's wild to think.
15:30
Speaker 3: I mean, I hope that you almost kind of hope
15:33
Speaker 3: that he was a spy, you.
15:34
Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, I mean I hope he was a spy
15:39
Speaker 2: for us, because I'm very patriotic. We all know that,
15:42
Speaker 2: of course, But yeah, there's got to be something to
15:46
Speaker 2: how he had access to all of these things he
15:49
Speaker 2: bribed people with, because that at least in like, we'll
15:53
Speaker 2: link to a Washington Post right up about this that
15:57
Speaker 2: goes into a lot of detail. It interviews a lot
15:59
Speaker 2: of and they don't really explain how he makes the
16:04
Speaker 2: jump from seemingly legitimate shipping maintenance company operator to this
16:12
Speaker 2: guy that has the funds to pull off all these bribes.
16:17
Speaker 2: Like his family was like they were they were well off,
16:19
Speaker 2: but not like they weren't like Kennedy's. They weren't like Rockefellers,
16:24
Speaker 2: And like, how where did the seed money to start
16:27
Speaker 2: the criminals? Right? This come from?
16:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, the beginning. That's the part that I am the
16:33
Speaker 3: most interested is like, yeah, that, like you said, that transition,
16:37
Speaker 3: how do you how do you make that link the
16:39
Speaker 3: first time? Maybe he just saw an opportunity and had
16:43
Speaker 3: the means and just jumped on it and rode, you know,
16:47
Speaker 3: like just kind of went along for the ride.
16:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's got to be because the things he
16:52
Speaker 2: was bribing people with. The Washington Post article that will
16:56
Speaker 2: link to, they have a whole list of things, and
16:58
Speaker 2: I'll just go through some of them. Four nights at
17:01
Speaker 2: a Manila hotel along with a prostitute. Four nights at
17:05
Speaker 2: a Hong Kong hotel along with a prostitute.
17:08
Speaker 3: Of course, and the house cleaning just leaves the prostitute
17:11
Speaker 3: on the pillow like a mint. Sorry, sex work, I sho.
17:15
Speaker 3: Really yeah, we're.
17:17
Speaker 2: Quote in the Washington Post here and all of their
17:20
Speaker 2: fucking writings about this, and like it's it's the word.
17:24
Speaker 2: All of the reports about this use. Tickets to a
17:28
Speaker 2: Lady Gaga concert in Thailand. Cool, no prostitute.
17:31
Speaker 3: I'm sure there was a prostitute sex worker there too.
17:37
Speaker 2: Tickets to the Lion King musical in Japan? Is it
17:41
Speaker 2: as good if it's in Japan and not like on Broadway?
17:45
Speaker 2: That feels off b Way to me. Surely it's just
17:49
Speaker 2: that they were in Japan. I just have to imagine
17:52
Speaker 2: that's why it was that one. No, it's a completely different,
17:56
Speaker 2: different play in Japan.
17:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they didn't he didn't give them plane tickets
18:00
Speaker 3: to Japan, which is really kind of a ripoff.
18:03
Speaker 2: I like this next one, prostitutes. It's like, come on,
18:07
Speaker 2: you've just added four nights at a Manila hotel along
18:11
Speaker 2: with a prostitute, and then like fifteen entries down it
18:15
Speaker 2: just lists the word prostitute separately. It's like you are
18:18
Speaker 2: really enjoying saying this, aren't you. You're like tearanty in
18:23
Speaker 2: this article.
18:25
Speaker 3: These really want to reinforce that they were like fucking
18:29
Speaker 3: all the time.
18:31
Speaker 2: There was also nine days lodging in Tonga.
18:34
Speaker 3: Sure, I mean awesome. I'd take that.
18:37
Speaker 2: Three thousand dollars cash and then one thousand dollars cash
18:41
Speaker 2: per month and then cash. It's like, again, you don't
18:46
Speaker 2: have to list cash after three thousand, Like you're getting
18:50
Speaker 2: less specific as it goes on, and that's not how
18:53
Speaker 2: that's support. You are the Washington fucking Post. Tighten your
18:57
Speaker 2: shit up. Also, three week five country vacation in Southeast Asia.
19:02
Speaker 3: That's a lot of shit. Yeah, Like it's just a
19:05
Speaker 3: busy week, three weeks, it's a busy few weeks.
19:09
Speaker 2: It reminds me of that story of how Courtney Love
19:13
Speaker 2: showed up in the British new wave scene with a
19:17
Speaker 2: thousand hits of ecstasy and a guy who worked for
19:20
Speaker 2: the CIA, and it's like, yeah, that's normal. That sounds
19:23
Speaker 2: like the perfectly normal movings and comings and goings of
19:28
Speaker 2: a regular person with no ties to anything shady at all. Yeah,
19:32
Speaker 2: of course Courtney love had access to one thousand hits
19:35
Speaker 2: of acid. What. So let's backtrack a little talk about
19:41
Speaker 2: how this started. Fat Leonard he comes from a family
19:44
Speaker 2: that worked in boat stuff, which is the science term
19:48
Speaker 2: for it. Specifically, his maternal grandfather started a maritime logistics firm,
19:54
Speaker 2: and his family had money, but they were still kind
19:56
Speaker 2: of dysfunctional. At one point, his mom left because dad
20:01
Speaker 2: was a cheater, but also she took two of Fat
20:04
Speaker 2: Leonard's siblings with her and left him with dad so
20:08
Speaker 2: he could make sure Dad didn't bring home any strange women.
20:11
Speaker 2: Uh huh, which sounds like bad parenting.
20:14
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then this guy went on to basically traffic
20:18
Speaker 3: women or you know, exchange them for favors. Yeah. I
20:22
Speaker 3: wonder if he had any issues for this upbreaking Nah. Yeah.
20:28
Speaker 2: He did have some skirmishes with the law, which in
20:32
Speaker 2: Malaysia means you're gonna get beat with a cane. He
20:37
Speaker 2: apparently opened a bar and fell in with some shady characters,
20:41
Speaker 2: and at one point his bar gets raided and they
20:44
Speaker 2: find guns and ammunition, which is a big, big deal
20:47
Speaker 2: in a country like Malaysia. Yes, and because his family
20:53
Speaker 2: had some means, he was able to get off without
20:58
Speaker 2: the caning, but the police were so angry that he
21:01
Speaker 2: got off on such a light sentence they arrested him
21:05
Speaker 2: again immediately upon leaving the courthouse and charged him with
21:09
Speaker 2: a string of robberies he did not commit, and they
21:12
Speaker 2: finally like dropped those charges in exchange for him like
21:16
Speaker 2: taking more of a sentence for the gun crime. And
21:19
Speaker 2: he finally got six weapons with the cane. Those cops
21:23
Speaker 2: really wanted to see him get beat. They were probably
21:26
Speaker 2: drinking off while they were watching it.
21:28
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, you really obsessed with this cane. Look, man,
21:34
Speaker 3: we got the we polished the cane, it was already
21:37
Speaker 3: and then you took it away.
21:38
Speaker 2: Or stakeholders in that cane company got to keep the.
21:42
Speaker 3: Name in the news.
21:43
Speaker 2: And so he finally he gets six lashes with the cane,
21:47
Speaker 2: which is more harsh than it sounds. That is actually
21:50
Speaker 2: a very insane punishment if you've ever looked into it.
21:54
Speaker 2: And after he's he's done dealing with all that, he
21:58
Speaker 2: gets into the family business. And he didn't really know
22:00
Speaker 2: anything about the family business, but he did what you
22:03
Speaker 2: do in that situation, and you just hire people who
22:05
Speaker 2: do know about it, sure, and you let them do
22:08
Speaker 2: most of the work. And you focus on you know,
22:11
Speaker 2: secure in the plus for the US Navy.
22:15
Speaker 3: Look, this is going to be vital to his business
22:18
Speaker 3: interests going forward.
22:19
Speaker 2: He also changed the ring tone on his phone to
22:22
Speaker 2: God Bless the USA by Lee Greenwood. Brilliant classic, absolutely brilliant.
22:28
Speaker 3: Great idea that legitimately a great idea.
22:31
Speaker 2: So by the early two thousands, he'd secured contracts to
22:35
Speaker 2: service US Navy ships in ports from Russia to Papua
22:40
Speaker 2: New Guinea, along with business from the navies of Britain, France, Mexico, India,
22:47
Speaker 2: and the Netherlands. I wonder what those parties.
22:50
Speaker 3: Were like, I mean, knowing what his other parties were like,
22:54
Speaker 3: probably a good time.
22:56
Speaker 2: Which ones do we think were the best? I'm going
22:58
Speaker 2: France or Mexico? Probably Mexico, I don't know.
23:05
Speaker 3: I think India would party pretty hard.
23:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, they got a space program. You're gonna see some
23:10
Speaker 2: ship partying with India. They know what the fuck's.
23:13
Speaker 3: Going on exactly well in the.
23:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, we got weed. My days of
23:21
Speaker 2: being impressed by having weed or long gone. We got
23:25
Speaker 2: weed too.
23:26
Speaker 3: Too hard to find here.
23:28
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Oh that sucks. That's the one thing I
23:31
Speaker 2: always when I'm like, why do I still live in California.
23:34
Speaker 2: It's like, oh yeah, that's why it's so easy here.
23:40
Speaker 3: It's so it's so easy.
23:42
Speaker 2: So one of the things that obviously played a role
23:45
Speaker 2: in him getting all these contracts is fat. Leonard knew
23:49
Speaker 2: how to show an incoming Navy serviceman a good time.
23:54
Speaker 2: When an American Navy ship would come into one of
23:57
Speaker 2: his ports, he'd be waiting at the here like a
24:01
Speaker 2: goddamn concierge to arrange shopping trips, sightseeing tours, concert tickets,
24:08
Speaker 2: whatever people wanted. Not the kind of thing you expect
24:11
Speaker 2: from the guy who's also there to clean the shitter,
24:14
Speaker 2: Like right, like this is he's he's here to empty
24:18
Speaker 2: out the sewage container. But he's also like Ricardo Montlebond
24:23
Speaker 2: on Fantasy Island, he's wearing the fake Star Trek chest,
24:28
Speaker 2: so he doesn't look quite as fat.
24:30
Speaker 3: It's not fake. That's a real testing wrath of Khan.
24:33
Speaker 2: I know, I know, I was still.
24:37
Speaker 3: I mean, he's just a thing, incredible shape, like that's
24:42
Speaker 3: the thing. Yeah, I mean, that's just that's really he's
24:46
Speaker 3: given him platinum club service, you know, like that's above
24:50
Speaker 3: and beyond.
24:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, he would invite people to really elaborate banquets. They
24:55
Speaker 2: would be fancy booze and food and cigars. He had
24:59
Speaker 2: a team of elite pole dancers that he called the
25:03
Speaker 2: Elite Thaie Seal Team that he would sometimes fly in
25:07
Speaker 2: and it's like, are they still in business? I want
25:09
Speaker 2: to see the Elite Thai Seal Team. Did they have
25:13
Speaker 2: a YouTube? If not, they should. It's twenty twenty two.
25:17
Speaker 3: On First Hit. Okay, I google Elite Thie Seal Team,
25:25
Speaker 3: First Hit thirty six hour orgy and Elite Hooker Teams
25:31
Speaker 3: lurid details of debauchery and Fat Leonard case that is
25:36
Speaker 3: way too long? Were their phones sing at this orgy? Jesus?
25:42
Speaker 2: Yeah? Were their phone chargers? Could you like, could you
25:46
Speaker 2: stay in touch with the public? Or is that just
25:50
Speaker 2: three days lost to history?
25:53
Speaker 3: Were their phone chargers like thirty?
25:58
Speaker 2: If they were like, it's a three two point six
26:00
Speaker 2: hour orgy, I'd be like, I'm in for half maybe yeah.
26:04
Speaker 3: I'll come, I'll and I'll come and then I'll go actly.
26:10
Speaker 2: Thirty six hours. My god. He even went so far
26:15
Speaker 2: as to buy a decommissioned British warship, the awesomely named
26:21
Speaker 2: r FA Sir Lancelot, and he just turned it into
26:26
Speaker 2: a giant party boat, like complete with prostitutes in the
26:30
Speaker 2: wardroom to entertain US officers. He would like pull it
26:33
Speaker 2: up alongside ships as they were pulling in to his port.
26:37
Speaker 2: And it's like, why was the Navy overlooking giving him
26:41
Speaker 2: all this money? It's like, yeah, I wonder why because
26:44
Speaker 2: he made their job awesome.
26:46
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I mean like I would definitely if I
26:49
Speaker 3: had a choice of people to deal with. I mean, look,
26:54
Speaker 3: you know, I just I just saw a picture of him.
26:56
Speaker 3: He is not that fat.
26:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get the sense he's probably a little tall
27:01
Speaker 2: and at that point, Yeah, because I used to weigh
27:05
Speaker 2: almost three hundred and fifty pounds at one point and
27:07
Speaker 2: I'm not tall.
27:09
Speaker 3: And yeah, I'm not tall, and I don't know how
27:11
Speaker 3: much I weigh because I don't look at scales.
27:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't know what I weigh now. I
27:15
Speaker 2: quit nicotine, so I don't want to know. Like that, Yeah,
27:19
Speaker 2: quit nicotine is a whole fucking thing. And yeah, it
27:22
Speaker 2: has been a month's long ordeal, and I am positive
27:26
Speaker 2: I've gained some weight. But also I got sick that
27:29
Speaker 2: one time and lost a bunch of weight, so I
27:31
Speaker 2: had I had room to move, right. So for Fat
27:35
Speaker 2: Leonard's hospitality, the Navy would routinely fire off these thank
27:39
Speaker 2: you notes called Bravo zulus to glen defense. That's a
27:44
Speaker 2: Navy term for well done. And yeah, I.
27:48
Speaker 3: Used to always think of him as letters, but I
27:51
Speaker 3: guess that's not what it means in this case.
27:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I know the Zulu
27:55
Speaker 2: people are an ethnic group in Southern Africa.
27:58
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I know that, and I know that there's
28:00
Speaker 3: a film called Zulu that's a pretty great but kind
28:03
Speaker 3: of racist movie, and there, you know.
28:06
Speaker 2: Come on. So Fat Leonard would in turn take these
28:10
Speaker 2: Bravo zulus and post them on his website and put
28:13
Speaker 2: them in like company brochures as proof that, you know,
28:17
Speaker 2: he does a good job. If if your ships are
28:20
Speaker 2: coming to town, right. One retired admiral, speaking to The
28:24
Speaker 2: Washington Post anonymously said that after he complimented Francis on
28:29
Speaker 2: his fancy suit and quote blow torch of a cigar
28:32
Speaker 2: lighter end quote, of course, Francis showed up the next
28:36
Speaker 2: morning as his ship was about to depart with some gifts.
28:40
Speaker 2: He had one of those cigar lighters, which, as it
28:42
Speaker 2: turns out costs seven hundred dollars, which that's Gwyneth Paltrow
28:47
Speaker 2: Vagina egg territory there. Like, I don't care how rich
28:51
Speaker 2: you are. If you're buying a seven hundred dollars cigar lighter,
28:54
Speaker 2: you don't belong here, Like you are not doing with
28:59
Speaker 2: your money what we need you to be doing with
29:02
Speaker 2: your money, right, And yeah, it needs to go to
29:05
Speaker 2: someone else, and you need to go to space.
29:09
Speaker 3: I'm just like, even if it's gold, how is it
29:12
Speaker 3: seven hundred dollars? Yeah?
29:14
Speaker 2: Did it belong to Babe Ruth?
29:16
Speaker 3: Maybe it did, Maybe it did.
29:19
Speaker 2: He also had two pewter platters worth about five hundred
29:23
Speaker 2: dollars each, a pack of twenty five cuban cigars, and
29:27
Speaker 2: a business card for his tailor. And this an anonymous admiral,
29:32
Speaker 2: refused all those gifts. He said, there is no question
29:35
Speaker 2: in my mind that he tried to influence me. It's
29:38
Speaker 2: like fishing. He's got the hook. If he got an inch,
29:41
Speaker 2: he'd go for a foot. If he'd get a foot,
29:43
Speaker 2: he'd go for a yard. Which, wow, that's rare.
29:46
Speaker 3: I just take the plate, take the pure platters.
29:49
Speaker 4: Man.
29:52
Speaker 2: It sounds like, has this guy ever smoked the Cuban cigar.
29:55
Speaker 3: They're great, Yeah, they are. They're wonderful. It's like, there's
30:00
Speaker 3: this there's this video game series called Yakuza. They're called
30:05
Speaker 3: the Yakuza Games in America, And when you gamble in
30:09
Speaker 3: those games, there's like gambling dens and stuff, and when
30:13
Speaker 3: you gamble in the game, they don't reward you with
30:17
Speaker 3: cash for winning. You just get like tokens that you
30:21
Speaker 3: can exchange for gifts that you then exchange for cash,
30:25
Speaker 3: and they're like pewter platters and really lighters and shit.
30:32
Speaker 3: Like it's just it sounds exactly like this stuff.
30:36
Speaker 2: Maybe that's who's behind all this.
30:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe it's the Maybe maybe Fat Leonard's working for
30:41
Speaker 3: the Yakaza. You know.
30:43
Speaker 2: So one really great example of how much power Fat
30:47
Speaker 2: Leonard was wielding within the Navy after just a few
30:51
Speaker 2: short years of providing boat maintenance and fuck services can
30:57
Speaker 2: be found in the story of Dave Shause. He was
31:00
Speaker 2: one of the first people to question Fat Leonard about
31:03
Speaker 2: his exorbitant bills for ship maintenance services. He was a
31:08
Speaker 2: junior officer assigned to the Navy's Ship Support Office in
31:13
Speaker 2: Hong Kong, and he became suspicious when GDMA built his
31:17
Speaker 2: office for pumping one hundred thousand gallons of sewage from
31:22
Speaker 2: a destroyer that spent four days in port. And the
31:25
Speaker 2: problem there is that the destroyer in question had a
31:29
Speaker 2: sewage tank with a maximum capacity of twelve thousand gallons
31:35
Speaker 2: and it was only serviced once a day. So, for
31:39
Speaker 2: all you non math nerds out there, that means GDMA
31:44
Speaker 2: build for twice the amount of sewage that was physically
31:47
Speaker 2: capable of being removed from the ship during that span.
31:51
Speaker 2: And when Shaus questioned Francis about it, he said Francis
31:56
Speaker 2: became irate and accused him of calling him a liar,
31:59
Speaker 2: to which now replied, I am calling you a liar.
32:04
Speaker 3: Yes, your assessment was correct, But then if.
32:08
Speaker 2: You dig into this guy's story after that, he ends
32:11
Speaker 2: up basically resigning and the Navy is like, hey, leave
32:15
Speaker 2: that guy alone. He he does all the fuck parties.
32:19
Speaker 3: Come on, man, don't you wand you want to go
32:21
Speaker 3: to the fuck party.
32:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're gonna You're gonna take down Captain of the
32:26
Speaker 2: SS Sir Lancelot, No, thank you.
32:30
Speaker 3: It would be r I miss yeah. True.
32:32
Speaker 2: So he eventually was told to back off. That bill
32:36
Speaker 2: was paid in full. He recalled another incident when the
32:39
Speaker 2: USS Abraham Lincoln and three other warships arrived in Hong
32:44
Speaker 2: Kong and Francis through this huge party complete with prostitutes
32:49
Speaker 2: dressed as Sanna's little helpers for all of the visiting officers.
32:55
Speaker 2: Nice touch. The next morning, he showed up with a
32:58
Speaker 2: six hundred thou thousand dollars sewage removal invoice, expecting to
33:03
Speaker 2: be paid immediately, and the guy he brought it to
33:06
Speaker 2: was like, Oh, so we're just paying for that party
33:08
Speaker 2: you threw last night. Huh. And once again the Navy
33:11
Speaker 2: was like, shut up, pay his bill. Paid his bill, insane.
33:16
Speaker 2: It seems like it's the sewage removal is where he
33:19
Speaker 2: was getting them.
33:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, hey, good for him. I mean, you know,
33:24
Speaker 3: I want to know. I need to know before I beat.
33:27
Speaker 3: I don't want to be too effusive about this guy.
33:30
Speaker 3: I need to know, like is he a pimp? Is
33:34
Speaker 3: that how he has? Like I just don't. It feels
33:38
Speaker 3: too much like human trafficking for me to love it
33:41
Speaker 3: too much.
33:42
Speaker 2: See. That's the thing. Like when people talk about MK
33:46
Speaker 2: ultra when it was really at its peak in the sixties,
33:50
Speaker 2: one of the things people just casually mention is, Oh,
33:52
Speaker 2: the CIA ran a brothel in San Francisco, and it's
33:55
Speaker 2: like where did the girls come from?
33:59
Speaker 3: Right?
33:59
Speaker 2: Like, you can't be like, oh, the CIA ran a brothel.
34:02
Speaker 2: It's like, do you know what that implies? That implies
34:06
Speaker 2: the CIA with sex trafficking women, and like, yeah, this guy,
34:10
Speaker 2: they're like like the articles are just like, oh, he
34:13
Speaker 2: he was very selective about the prostitutes he worked with,
34:16
Speaker 2: and it's like how did he find them?
34:19
Speaker 3: Like that?
34:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, this really is one of those stories where there's
34:23
Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of holes that still need
34:25
Speaker 2: to be filled. I mean, yeah, it seems like a
34:28
Speaker 2: lot of holes got filled, just not the kind you
34:34
Speaker 2: need to provide adequate information about.
34:38
Speaker 3: Fill some gaps in logic.
34:40
Speaker 2: Oh, some gaps got filled though, if you know what I.
34:44
Speaker 3: Mean, they left some real gapers feel gross.
34:50
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. So, as we mentioned earlier, this guy managed
34:56
Speaker 2: to like plant moles at all sorts of levels within
35:01
Speaker 2: the Navy. He's like Whitey Bulger in The Departed. He's
35:04
Speaker 2: got like cops working on his behalf.
35:08
Speaker 3: If you're running a scheme like this, that just makes sense.
35:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like this guy couldn't have been operating alone,
35:17
Speaker 2: like there had to be some sort of other involvement
35:21
Speaker 2: behind this. But one of the people that he got
35:25
Speaker 2: kind of installed in the Navy on his behalf was
35:28
Speaker 2: a woman named Sharon Gersharon Kauer, a Singapore national who
35:32
Speaker 2: worked for the Navy starting in two thousand and six.
35:35
Speaker 2: She would leak confidential contract information to Francis in exchange
35:39
Speaker 2: for one hundred thousand dollars cash and luxury vacations in
35:43
Speaker 2: Bali and Dubai. And it seems like one hundred thousand
35:47
Speaker 2: cash isn't enough, but also like she's living in Singapore,
35:50
Speaker 2: I bet that goes a whole lot further there than
35:53
Speaker 2: it does in La.
35:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like luxury vacations in Dubai, that can't be
36:00
Speaker 3: just one hundred thousand bucks.
36:02
Speaker 2: Yeah. I wonder what kind of sex workers she got.
36:05
Speaker 3: Probably some hot Arab guy good for her?
36:09
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, I.
36:10
Speaker 3: Mean, you know, or whatever. It's bad because the human trafficking.
36:14
Speaker 2: Like human trafficking, come on.
36:18
Speaker 4: No.
36:19
Speaker 2: So there was another mole, a guy named Paul Simpkins.
36:23
Speaker 2: He worked for the US Navy in Singapore as a
36:26
Speaker 2: contract supervisor and he was paid four hundred and fifty
36:30
Speaker 2: thousand dollars to rig Navy contracts on Fat Leonard's behalf.
36:35
Speaker 2: He also ordered the Navy's Hong Kong office to stop
36:38
Speaker 2: using flow meters to measure the amount of sewage that
36:42
Speaker 2: Glenn Defense pumped from ships. Wow, which made it easier
36:45
Speaker 2: for Francis to gouge the Navy for that service. Of course,
36:50
Speaker 2: it really does seem like that's where he was hiding.
36:52
Speaker 2: It was in the sewage pumping.
36:54
Speaker 3: No one wants to get done in the shit.
36:56
Speaker 2: It's not his fault. They're fucking pooping so much.
37:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like yeah, the Navy looks at the bill and
37:04
Speaker 3: is like, yeah, I guess that's the amount of shit
37:07
Speaker 3: we have in here.
37:08
Speaker 2: Maybe that was the scheme. It's just the food he
37:10
Speaker 2: was giving them made them shit a bunch, and he
37:14
Speaker 2: got the bill a bunch for removing all that shit.
37:17
Speaker 3: Right.
37:17
Speaker 2: So this Paul Simpkins guy who ends up as one
37:22
Speaker 2: of his moles. There are court records that have come
37:25
Speaker 2: out that include Paul Simpkins text messages to Fat Leonard,
37:30
Speaker 2: and they're a little damning if I'm being completely honest.
37:35
Speaker 3: Slightly Yeah, like.
37:37
Speaker 2: The one that says, can you set up some clean
37:40
Speaker 2: disease free women? When I am there. What if he
37:43
Speaker 2: wrote back and was like, uh, disease free. No, And
37:47
Speaker 2: then Paul's like, Okay, that's fine as long as they're clean,
37:51
Speaker 2: as long as they shower.
37:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, I guess there's some wiggle
37:58
Speaker 3: room there, say he wasn't technically talking about sex workers.
38:06
Speaker 2: Well, then then he followed up a few days later,
38:09
Speaker 2: what's the plan to meet up and maybe do some honeyes? Like,
38:12
Speaker 2: my god, Paul, what year is it? Whatever year it was,
38:16
Speaker 2: No one said it that way, ever.
38:19
Speaker 3: What do some honeyes do?
38:21
Speaker 2: Some honeies?
38:24
Speaker 3: I love to do honeys.
38:27
Speaker 2: My god, Paul gross. But it really does seem like
38:31
Speaker 2: the seventh Fleet was his biggest accomplishment. And they're supposed
38:35
Speaker 2: to be like the most prestigious of all the Navy fleets, right, Yeah,
38:40
Speaker 2: they're the ones that protect our most sensitive waters. They
38:44
Speaker 2: have had a rash of unexplained accidents over the past
38:48
Speaker 2: few years that they swear are not the result of
38:51
Speaker 2: Russia and China being able to jam their outdated navigation systems.
38:57
Speaker 3: And they also, for some reason, it seems like a
39:01
Speaker 3: bunch of people know all of our classified shipping routes.
39:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy and like, yeah, think about if this
39:09
Speaker 2: problem is this bad, If just some fuckface who owns
39:13
Speaker 2: a shipping company is able to get in with the
39:17
Speaker 2: seventh Fleet and over the course of twenty five years,
39:20
Speaker 2: they say the amount he builked from them is thirty
39:22
Speaker 2: five million, it's gotta be so much more than that.
39:27
Speaker 3: Yeah that if he's charging six hundred thou per toilet
39:31
Speaker 3: flush like, it can't be in the millions. It's gotta
39:36
Speaker 3: be more than that.
39:37
Speaker 2: And yeah, they're supposed to be the top level of
39:41
Speaker 2: Navy excellence and they're falling prey to fat Leonard. Like
39:46
Speaker 2: how many other fat Leonards are out there using the
39:49
Speaker 2: information they're getting for other reasons besides just making money
39:55
Speaker 2: dumping shit into the Indian Ocean or whatever the fuck
39:58
Speaker 2: he was doing.
39:59
Speaker 3: I mean, it sounds right.
40:02
Speaker 2: So far, just from the seventh Fleet, four officers and
40:05
Speaker 2: an enlisted sailor who worked there have pleaded guilty to
40:09
Speaker 2: taking bribes from Francis so far, and court records again,
40:14
Speaker 2: I feel like this speaks to maybe him not doing
40:16
Speaker 2: this on his own. They show he would groom his
40:19
Speaker 2: targets like a spy would. He would look for people
40:23
Speaker 2: with money problems or marital problems, alcohol addiction, loneliness. It
40:28
Speaker 2: says lust at one point, and it's like, who's going on.
40:32
Speaker 2: I mean, if he's got the money, I'm sure he
40:34
Speaker 2: could hire his own private firm to go out and
40:37
Speaker 2: do that research. But sure, this is like espionage. Yeahs
40:43
Speaker 2: and he also not only like sex was his most
40:48
Speaker 2: effective bribery tool, but he would also pow wow with
40:51
Speaker 2: those sex workers after and get information on the various
40:56
Speaker 2: Navy officials like sexual leanings, and yeah, you know, just
41:03
Speaker 2: like use that in whatever way he could later on.
41:06
Speaker 3: Look, if you're bribing the navy with sex, you need
41:12
Speaker 3: to know what kind of sex the Navy wants.
41:16
Speaker 2: Exactly. It's just good customer service, honestly.
41:20
Speaker 3: Yeah.
41:20
Speaker 2: It's like when websites track your data, it's just to
41:23
Speaker 2: feed you better ads.
41:24
Speaker 3: That's all exactly. That's all I'm not going to.
41:27
Speaker 2: Miss use it, baby, don't worry.
41:30
Speaker 3: And there's no human trafficking involved at all.
41:32
Speaker 2: No, never, not ever in anything. I don't think human trafficking.
41:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think that's next episode.
41:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, coming next on conspiracy show. The human trafficking myth.
41:45
Speaker 2: It's actually aliens.
41:47
Speaker 3: Oh that makes sense right, So.
41:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the ways he was able to go
41:54
Speaker 2: for so long without getting caught in the still, I
41:57
Speaker 2: feel like they're not giving us all the information here.
42:00
Speaker 2: He was able to flip a law enforcement official, a
42:03
Speaker 2: guy who worked in n CIS right alongside Mark Harmon.
42:08
Speaker 3: And there's a and that's the You know, it's tough
42:11
Speaker 3: to track that guy out because there's so many branches of.
42:14
Speaker 2: The CIS franchises.
42:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, is he in Los Angeles? Is he in
42:19
Speaker 3: New Orleans? I don't know.
42:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that Mark Harmon's character on that his
42:24
Speaker 2: name is like jethrow Leroy Gibbs or something.
42:28
Speaker 3: It's like, really, come on, what are.
42:29
Speaker 2: You a fucking Delta blues musician? Stop?
42:32
Speaker 3: You know, I've never watched any episode of any n
42:37
Speaker 3: c I S series.
42:38
Speaker 2: I have yet to see a single n CIS episode
42:41
Speaker 2: as well.
42:41
Speaker 3: I used to watch JAG. Does JAG get involved in this?
42:45
Speaker 3: Probably this? Yeah, this feels like JAG territory, doesn't it.
42:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're judge Advocate general action.
42:53
Speaker 3: Is that what what that meant? I have no idea.
42:58
Speaker 3: I never knew what it meant. I just knew that
43:00
Speaker 3: they've like you know, war.
43:02
Speaker 4: Ats suits and stuff, and they like, you know, arrested
43:09
Speaker 4: naval officers and shit, that's all I remember about Jag.
43:13
Speaker 2: This reminds me of that time comedian Harlan Williams was
43:17
Speaker 2: co hosting some late night talk show and the guest
43:20
Speaker 2: was from the TV show er and just completely joking.
43:24
Speaker 2: His first question, he goes right off the bat, er,
43:28
Speaker 2: what's it stand for? And she didn't fucking know. Oh no, oh,
43:35
Speaker 2: one of the most awkward things I've ever seen. He
43:40
Speaker 2: had to be like, emergency room. It means emergency room
43:43
Speaker 2: where the show takes place. Good times.
43:46
Speaker 3: That's I mean, that one's really common.
43:50
Speaker 2: It's pretty bad. Yeah, it's pretty bad.
43:52
Speaker 3: JAG. Yeah, I looked at up Judge Advocate General.
43:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.
43:56
Speaker 3: I don't even know why I knew that.
43:57
Speaker 2: I think I probably looked it up at some point
43:59
Speaker 2: when that show was on the.
44:00
Speaker 3: Air, but like, yeah, wow.
44:04
Speaker 2: And this guy he flipped within NCIS. His name was
44:08
Speaker 2: John Bellavou the Second. He was based in Singapore and
44:11
Speaker 2: later at Quantico and in exchange for prostitutes and cash
44:15
Speaker 2: and other favors. He would tap into an NCIS database
44:20
Speaker 2: to let Francis know what kind of of information they
44:24
Speaker 2: had on him and how any investigations into his activities
44:29
Speaker 2: were progressing, and this is where there's another big leap
44:34
Speaker 2: where they say, well, once they realized he had infiltrated NCIS,
44:39
Speaker 2: that's when they decided it was time to take him down.
44:43
Speaker 2: It's like, what what do you mean? Like, what would
44:46
Speaker 2: you like if everyone else had a vested interest in
44:50
Speaker 2: him keeping this going? Like why would him infiltrating the
44:54
Speaker 2: NCIS be a problem?
44:55
Speaker 3: There's something they're not.
44:57
Speaker 2: Telling us about this because it's it feels like almost
45:02
Speaker 2: like a Saddam Hussein kind of thing where it's like, Okay,
45:05
Speaker 2: you're our friend, you're our friend, you're our friend, you're
45:07
Speaker 2: our friend, all right, now you're not our friend like that.
45:10
Speaker 2: There are so many people on the world stage who
45:13
Speaker 2: have fallen victim to that. Fucking Manuel Noriega was for
45:19
Speaker 2: their longest time a very good friend of the United
45:22
Speaker 2: States and then he said the wrong thing one time
45:25
Speaker 2: and we were like, all right, no more, we are
45:28
Speaker 2: coming after you. Like, I feel like this guy had
45:32
Speaker 2: to have done something. Yeah, or maybe they did find
45:35
Speaker 2: out he was working with Russia.
45:37
Speaker 3: Maybe that would make sense. There are definitely a lot
45:42
Speaker 3: of real large pieces of this story that are still
45:46
Speaker 3: under explained.
45:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, they What they end up doing is they plant
45:52
Speaker 2: fake information within NCIS that says all investigations into this
45:57
Speaker 2: guy have ended, and then that information gets back to
46:01
Speaker 2: him and then it just says that they set up
46:03
Speaker 2: another meeting with him in San Diego where he like
46:06
Speaker 2: agreed to go along with some corruption. It's like that
46:10
Speaker 2: seems too easy, Like there's yeah, there's I feel like
46:14
Speaker 2: there's a detail missing.
46:16
Speaker 3: There's there's definitely details missing. And I would say, like, personally,
46:21
Speaker 3: if I were scamming the United States military over the
46:28
Speaker 3: course of multiple decades, I would never go to the
46:32
Speaker 3: United States. Ever, No, that seems like a trap.
46:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the fact that the first place he goes
46:41
Speaker 2: when he because what we haven't mentioned, he ends up
46:43
Speaker 2: getting arrested. That's after he agrees to this meeting in
46:47
Speaker 2: San Diego, And yeah, going back to the US is
46:49
Speaker 2: a weird choice and he ends up getting arrested. But
46:53
Speaker 2: then apparently where he was being held there was very
46:57
Speaker 2: lack of security, So no kidding. Well, actually, when I
47:01
Speaker 2: say that, what I mean is the home where he
47:03
Speaker 2: was under house arrest in San Diego had very lax security, which, again,
47:09
Speaker 2: this guy's got some fucking connections. If he's only getting
47:12
Speaker 2: house arrest over this.
47:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's fair to say.
47:16
Speaker 2: He was wearing an ankle monitor and he cut it off,
47:19
Speaker 2: and apparently that happened at like eight in the morning,
47:22
Speaker 2: and the news of that happening didn't reach the law
47:26
Speaker 2: enforcement people who needed to know about it until like two.
47:29
Speaker 2: And he's like already in San Diego, which is basically Mexico,
47:33
Speaker 2: So he was able to get to Mexico, but he
47:37
Speaker 2: was finally caught in Venezuela. And the fact that Venezuela
47:43
Speaker 2: turned him over to the US, it's not like we've
47:46
Speaker 2: gotten along swimmingly over the past few years. And I
47:50
Speaker 2: did see it mentioned in a headline that was unfortunately
47:53
Speaker 2: behind a paywall that I wasn't willing to stomach the
47:56
Speaker 2: charge for that he might end up kind of of
48:00
Speaker 2: being a tool in diplomatic relations between Venezuela and the US,
48:06
Speaker 2: which I think would still speak to maybe him having
48:10
Speaker 2: done this on behalf of a foreign government.
48:14
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe.
48:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it did come out that when he fled,
48:18
Speaker 2: he was trying to get to Russia, right, and Russia
48:22
Speaker 2: and Venezuela have had pretty cool relations recently, I think
48:27
Speaker 2: cool relations in political terms means bad. They've had good
48:31
Speaker 2: relations in recent years, and I feel like he thought
48:35
Speaker 2: he was going to get to Venezuela and be like, hey,
48:38
Speaker 2: I've been spying for Russia. I need you to get
48:40
Speaker 2: me to Russia. And they were like yeah, oh really,
48:44
Speaker 2: And now they have him and they can, you know,
48:47
Speaker 2: kind of get whatever they want out of the US
48:50
Speaker 2: in return, because it would be super embarrassing if it
48:52
Speaker 2: came out that this guy was also a Russian.
48:55
Speaker 3: Spy, right, yeah, I feel like if he was, we
48:58
Speaker 3: probably won't know. No, I mean, unless it's an accident,
49:03
Speaker 3: but like, yeah.
49:04
Speaker 2: But sleep safe America. Fat Leonard is back in custody.
49:09
Speaker 3: Thank god.
49:10
Speaker 2: And I was worried. The sex worker industry in Thailand
49:15
Speaker 2: and the Philippines is hurting right now.
49:18
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'm sure he was like half the business.
49:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, he has pulled the foundation out from under that industry.
49:26
Speaker 2: It's like when he only fans tried to ban porn.
49:29
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Yeah, there was an uprising.
49:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is going to start a war between US
49:34
Speaker 2: and Thailand and the Philippines. Yeah, free Fat Leonard. I mean,
49:40
Speaker 2: don't I don't care.
49:41
Speaker 3: I don't care, I don't know. I don't know enough
49:44
Speaker 3: about Like there's so many weird things where I'm like, again,
49:48
Speaker 3: I don't know where these women. Yeah, I never detailed.
49:52
Speaker 2: I need to know what kind of help he was getting.
49:54
Speaker 2: I need to know where the women came from, right,
49:57
Speaker 2: because yeah, like you you hear some horror stories, like
50:02
Speaker 2: you hear about fucking human trafficking at like nail salons
50:07
Speaker 2: and shit, like if you look into there are certain
50:10
Speaker 2: visa programs that are all in all a good thing,
50:13
Speaker 2: but just so rife with abuse and people getting i
50:17
Speaker 2: mean human trafficked into working fucking twenty hours a day
50:22
Speaker 2: at a McDonald's franchise in New Jersey.
50:25
Speaker 3: Like I heard about. I've heard a theory about like
50:29
Speaker 3: kids who were getting trafficked through a pizza place, like
50:33
Speaker 3: it's you know.
50:34
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the one in the one in DC with
50:36
Speaker 2: the torture basement, right exactly. So Yeah, Fat Leonard is
50:43
Speaker 2: back in custody, and I am fascinated to find out
50:47
Speaker 2: what kind of additional details are going to come out
50:51
Speaker 2: about this story. Yeah, because oh man, there's I feel
50:55
Speaker 2: there's gotta be more to it. There's he had I
50:57
Speaker 2: feel like he did something to get caught or to
51:01
Speaker 2: like fall out of favor with the people protecting him,
51:05
Speaker 2: And yeah, I need to know where the girls came
51:07
Speaker 2: from before I get to oh, this is a victimless
51:11
Speaker 2: crime about it? Right? I do need to know how
51:14
Speaker 2: he had access to all those women and what department
51:18
Speaker 2: of the CIA provided them. So maybe we'll do a
51:22
Speaker 2: follow up when we find out all that. But until then,
51:24
Speaker 2: I think that's our episode.
51:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so.
51:29
Speaker 2: Do we have anything to plug? There's a new episode
51:32
Speaker 2: of Going Back coming out this week. It was supposed
51:35
Speaker 2: to be out a couple of weeks ago, but putting
51:37
Speaker 2: the studio together is taking it out of me. My
51:41
Speaker 2: schedule has been nuts. But that new episode will be.
51:45
Speaker 3: Up and yeah, well that's good. Watch going not watched?
51:50
Speaker 3: Listen to Going Back, Watch Lost, Watch Lost.
51:54
Speaker 2: I just found out Jen Scott and Jessica Singer, my
51:56
Speaker 2: co hosts on trend Pony, are completely into pay of
52:00
Speaker 2: that podcast. Also rewatching Lost.
52:04
Speaker 3: Oh hell yeah, we should have them on.
52:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, we we talked about it on Trendpony. We'll definitely
52:08
Speaker 2: have them on. They got to catch up nice. But
52:11
Speaker 2: uh so, yeah, listen to that. It's right now on
52:14
Speaker 2: the Bonus feeds on Patreon and Supercast and Spotify, but
52:17
Speaker 2: it'll be out publicly soon. But if you're a subscriber,
52:21
Speaker 2: you get it now. You're lucky bastards, and that's all
52:25
Speaker 2: I got to plug. You got anything, then we should
52:28
Speaker 2: probably get out of here. Olivia say goodbye, bye, goodbye everybody.
52:33
Speaker 3: We love you.