Latest / Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby / Screen Time for Kids: A Tech Insider’s Guide for Exhausted Parents | Rob LoCascio | Happiness | E530

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Screen Time for Kids: A Tech Insider’s Guide for Exhausted Parents | Rob LoCascio | Happiness | E530 · Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby

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  Speaker 1: notes with links to everything. All right, now, let's get
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: into today's episode.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: You know, they're just people making stuff for our children
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: to be hooked on. It's like heroin dealers. You know,
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: it's instruct I look at them like drug dealers.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: If you are a parent of a child over twelve
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: months old, I'm talking to you today because I know
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: that you are in the same terrible power struggle that
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: all parents are these days.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: They have a mission and it's very contrary to the
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: mission we have as parents.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: You are having ongoing battles with your child over screen time.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: It can turn into a really terrible feeling interaction with
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: your kid where they are yelling, crying, having milkdowns, where
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: you're just trying to set healthy limits, and it can
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: feel absolutely paralyzing.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: If I heard noises downstairs, I went downstairs and here
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I see a kid him literally like this, three in
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: the morning.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: So many parents are stuck in the situation. They don't
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: know what to do. And on this episode of Love,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Happiness and Success, we are talking about it with a
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: very special guest, Rob Locasio. He has spent many years
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: both developing some of these systems that we're all now
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: wrestling with, but he also has spent the last couple
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: of years of his life working on some of the solutions,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: and he's here today to share his experiences and provide
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: you with some new perspective and direction for how to
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: create more balance in your home and in the lives
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: of the.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: Children that you might be very worried about.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: If this is your first time listening, I'm so glad
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: you're here. I'm doctor Lisa Marie Bobby, I'm your host.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: I am also a licensed psychologist, a licensed marriage and
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: family therapist, and a board certified coach, and every week
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: on the show we are tackling all kinds of different
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: things that are touching on different dimensions of your life
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: to help you create more love, happiness, and success. And
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: today's topic is so near and dear to my heart.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: I am, in addition to my professional role, the mom
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: of two kids, and this is an ongoing situation in
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  Speaker 1: my own home and more oftenly, I'm more commonly I'm
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: talking to so many of my clients who are parents
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: around this deep anxiety and the sense of helplessness. And
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: so I'm so excited to crack into this topic today
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: with Rob Locasio. As I mentioned, he is been in
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: this space for a long time, founder, former CEO of
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Live Person, a company that helped pioneer a lot of
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: the technology that's behind digital engagement, and now on a
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: new mission with his organization, Kid Company, which is seeking
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: to correct some of this and give parents new tools.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: So Rob, I'm so happy to talk with you personally
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: and professionally. Honestly, thanks for having me on the podcast
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: on Yeah Wow. Okay, So there's so much to unpack here,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: but can we first just mention to our listeners in
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: cases becomes obvious at some point in our conversation that
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: you are the father of three. So in addition to
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: building new systems, you are like living in your own
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: life experience. And we may have a special guest who
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: has come to work with you today, popping in and
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: out of here from five to time. So hello Leonardo. Yay, Okay, Well,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: so Rob, I mean, why don't you just start with
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: the story. I mean, you were one of the architects
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: of this new reality we're all experiencing starting in the nineties.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So I was the inventor on web chat
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: on websites, and I created that in making ninety seven,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: and I built this company called live person, which pret
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: big company. It was a public company in three thousand employees,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: and we powered all the conversational AI experiences for when
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: you went to City Bank and American Express and chatted
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: or message or cult.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: So I say, it's all your fault, basically, Okay, now
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: we know who to blame, you know.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: And now it's AI AI so like, and I guess
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: I'm a godfather of this technology and uh and seeing
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: where it's going today.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, So then monsters were created. We have algorithms and
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: all these digital experiences that are very compelling. I mean,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: many grown adults get down all kinds of rabbit holes
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: and and children are so vulnerable.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: That's correct, And that's the thing. What I found having
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: young kids is that there's an external force that's approaching
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: our children, engaging with our children through our devices, and
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: these are strangers. And where it all boils down to
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: is our value systems as parents and a family. We
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: have values, and what you find is you're in competition
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: with other people's values and they're better at it, like
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: as in, we're really good as parents with our children,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: but they're they're out there creating a way to engage
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: our children through devices and content to addict them. And
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: the thing is on our side, as you know, as
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  Speaker 2: a parent, our whole mission is to make sure our
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: children are safe. That's our number one thing. And on
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  Speaker 2: the other side, there's no regard to safety for our children.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: It's all about can I get them to scroll? I
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: don't care if they're addicted. I don't care if they're
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: losing their minds, if they say bad words, if I
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: feed them stuff for their reptile brain, that's cool. And
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: on our side of like we're doing everything, but that
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: you know, we want to love and nourish and grow
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: our children and be there for them. So there's a conflict,
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  Speaker 2: But it's not the device. I'm sorry. I try to
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: tell me. It's not about the device itself. On the
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: other side, there's a group of people who or not
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: in alignment to a normal parent. I don't think know
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: if they are parents. You know, they're just people making
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: stuff for our children to be hooked on. It's like
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: heroin dealers, you know, it's drug I look at them
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  Speaker 2: like drug dealers. They have a mission and it's very
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: contrary to the mission we have as parents right well.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: And I mean, you know, for me, this has been
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: such a battle at some points. And I think part
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: of it too is there's differing information around how much
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: is too much and how bad is it for kids? Really?
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  Speaker 1: And then on the other side, I think another reality
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  Speaker 1: for parents that we all experience living through the pandemic especially,
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  Speaker 1: is that to have a kid occupied with something that's
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  Speaker 1: holding their attention and sometimes they're playing with friends online
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: and doing you know, like so it's a multi dimensional
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: experience that can be confusing for parents to like make decisions.
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  Speaker 1: But I'm wondering if it's okay to ask, can you
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  Speaker 1: share examples of maybe your own life, father of three,
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  Speaker 1: where you've struggled with some of this yourself, and how you,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: with the knowledge and the history that you have, have
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: started to understand ways to handle this more effectively.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you know. It starts with like observing that
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  Speaker 2: the children they I think you first have to think
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: of it. So I tell people, like, think of devices
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  Speaker 2: like homework. We're used to handing into them and letting
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: them go away so we can get like a break
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  Speaker 2: in our day. That's really what these things are for
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: us as parents.
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  Speaker 1: I mean that's valid. I like, yeah, literally I have
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: literally done that.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: That's we've all done it. And that's it's like, oh
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: I eat something I got because we got we got
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: busy lives, and we don't treat it like I'd say,
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: treated like homework. Like when I'm with my children, I
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: sit with them and help them do their homework and
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: I'll be with them and it's a connective experience. If
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: you think about and I'm pointing a figure out myself,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: by the way, so if you think about being a parent,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: like it's hard and it's hard to have these very
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: connected relationships with them because I'm at work, they're at
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: school for a home eating, got to get into bed,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: they got to do homework in the morning. It's a
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: rush like you wake up, you know, like it's all
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: what giant rush until the weekend when we get some
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: real time with them. So that whole thing about like
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: five days a week, it's this whole blur. And so
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: and then the device is just another part of the blur.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: And the thing is with this, I think we have
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: to spend time with them, like like homework. What are
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: we doing with the device? In our case, we made
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: a whole new device, so we took out a lot
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: of there's no no one trying to serve them something bad.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: But bottom line is, I think it's about thinking about
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: like homework, the idea of what the device is there for.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: It's not about distraction disconnection. It's about connection and community.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: So that that's kind of why I try to reframe
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: things even in my family.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, and so what are what are some examples
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: of things that that you have come across and also
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: you know that that research supports are examples of disconnection
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: or things that kids are doing or being exposed to
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: that are like objectively harmful, like with my own So
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: I have sat with my kids sometimes and like YouTube shorts,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: even if it is like kid appropriate stuff like what
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: is this that like whole brain rat concept, And if
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: we're not careful, she'll do that for hours, like and
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: it's a fight to make her stop. Sometimes.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and my suddenly or or he just went outside,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: but harder would him. A couple of years ago where
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: it was like three o'clock in the morning and I
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: heard I was coming backroom, I heard noises downstairs. I
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: went downstairs and here I see a kid him. I
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: had literally like this three in the morning.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he woke up and my daughter did that once,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: right and you know you yeah.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: And I'm look here, I said, what are you doing?
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: And he had no clue, Like he didn't know where
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: he was. He didn't know it was three o'clock in
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: the morning. He went up to the throw in his
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: mind went straight to where's the iPad? I mean, it's
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: it's an addiction. So as a that kind of gave
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: me a red flight. Then I decided to I think
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: one of the things is like you did it too.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: If you're from Afar and you don't look at what
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: saw that screen. If you look from a farm, it's like, oh,
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: cartoons and people laughing, it's YouTube kids that it's young
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: people throwing you know, watermelons. No, if you really look in,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: what you're gonna see is there's a lot of violence
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: in there. Like kids hit each other, they curse, they
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: do things. It's it's a term and they but it's
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: all around laughter. They create away like I can, I can.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: So it touches the reptile brain of a human like
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: I'm slappy, I'm hitting it. But it's funny. So what
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: I started to see is my kids laughing at things
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: that like, as an adult with that look like that's
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: not funny. Like so they start to think doing this
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: behavior is funny. So as if you really get into
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: what's inside that content, you'll see they mask it. So
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: from afar, you're like, oh, it's okay. But when you
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: really just sit there and watch video after video after
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: video and watch the full videos, a lot of stuff.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: They do stuff in the end, they throw things in
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: the middle. They're really clever on it. It's like it's
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: really addiction because it's like a you know, it's like
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: I guess getting hooked to drugs is like it starts
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: like little things, I guess, you know, and then it
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: becomes an addiction, it becomes a habit, and they're throwing
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: little things in there that you can't see as a parent,
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: but it's developing a habit with your pick with your kids.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: And we see it because we see the dum scrawling,
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: we see the bad behavior. I mean, my four year
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: old he cursed, He said the F word once and
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: he didn't know what it even was. But they were
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: making a joke and said that's often funny and they
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: laughed and he's like, oh, and he saw them laugh
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: so loud that he thought, wow, if you say the
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: F word, who have led to a joke?
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Funny?
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: So none of this is funny? And do you? And
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: I did what YouTube did during from my understanding, during
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: the pandemic, just open it up because they had kids
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: in demand wanting content being at home, and they had
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: to open up the algorithm to allow a lot more
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: content in a lot of a little more bad context.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: I understands pre COVID the content was more regulated by
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: YouTube and YouTube kids interesting.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and I don't know if you've come across
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: any research on this part either. But you know, one
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: of the things that I've noticed with my own daughter
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: and also have heard from client, you know, couples who
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: are trying to figure out, like how do we create
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: some I don't I don't know if rules is the
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: right word, like the family policies around this because of
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: the addictive part. And when I use the word addictive
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: to me, it is a in the emotionally functional sense
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: that when people develop attachments to substances or process addictions,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: there's a part of it that becomes functional in that
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: they are using it to regulate their mood. And what
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: I have seen in my own life is that my
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: daughter gets upset or just regulated in some way and
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: she starts asking for the iPad that it's almost like
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: the self soothing kind of function that's happened. And I
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: mean there's more there. Obviously, she'll come and ask for
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: a hug, and she'll want cuddles and all these things.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: But like, I think that's the part that worries me,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: and the like the craving, the wanting to go back
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: over and over again in place of other things like
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: playing outside or drawing or reading. Right, there's this gravitation
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: towards this this like reward dopamine hits.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: You know, Hey wrote that book too. We've all read it.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: The Anxious Generation came out last year and if you're
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: a parent, you ever read it. It's really a great book.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: And he took a very scientific He did a lot
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: of studying of the device and then the content. And actually,
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: which is really interesting is that the device itself when iPhone,
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: when Apple put the front camera in that he could
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: do selfies, depression and suicides and children globally went straight up.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: No kidding, I did not know that.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: We'll have to look at this at the book is
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: so fascinat because we always blame social media and at
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: least like it's so this is why when my company
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: I created device, because the device has Apple has created
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: features and Android two and as Samsung website, as they've
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: added features in, everyone takes advantage of it. And if
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: they never put the front camera and he showed it
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: the camera as people started to do these selfies, suicide
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: and depression and childrens and it was because it was
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: global as a pretment.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: But what what what do you make of that like
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: front cameras, what is the correlation between that and suicidality
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: were because I did not read that book. So just
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: what what is the meaning being made of that? Because
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: what do you.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Say is like it's all like a reflective mirror, like
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: I'm doing something. I'm here a lot of I I
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: I will post kids are posting that. And there was
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: this whole now world of where look at me, look
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: at how fabuus I am? Look where I am? I'm
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: at a party. It was like it took some effort
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: to like with the cameras handed to someone take a picture,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: but they showed when just the front camera came on,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: they created a lot more content in the world. Okay,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: well their hands could create a lot more, a lot
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: more on somewhere you're not. It's a lot of honest
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: somewhere we think about even for like adults, you see
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: it like it's all about I'm somewhere then you're not.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm somewhere fabulous, and you're not I'm some right,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: And and that's the kids are seeing that, you know.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: And now if you do it in a much more,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: you know, easier way, like it's easy to do this
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: versus someone's got to Okay, but that you read that book,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: you see a true by feature got put into the
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: actual physical device. Is when we saw teenagers and all
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: do we see the spike in depression? We see all
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: ends a hockey stick as the features and obviously behind
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: that was so media. So it was like on Facebook
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: adopting it. Right, then there's Instagram they adopted the utilization
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: of these features. So you know, this is it's a
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: very you know, it's a pack between the hardware and
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: the platform companies to think about how do we use
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: this technology to tap into this this way of uh,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: whether it's soothing a kid, it's it's it's addiction, and
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know how else to put it, you know,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: like you're saying people use for certain reasons. Yeah, and children.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: The problem with children is like they don't know any better.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, if I hand my kid a knife or
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: I hand my kid a gun, there's a high probability
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: is going to shoot himself for shoot some letting killed.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Like they don't understand. Yeah, yeah, you know that if
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: I hear they need to be protected, right protect They
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: don't have the wherewithal to know what's going on. And
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: so I when I found really fascinating, I think as
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: a parent, you'll For as much as I think my
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: iPhone is good, it's great utility into do emails and traveling.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: I get that, but right what I hand through my children,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: I feel like I've lost emotional shift. I feel like
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: I'm just doing this temporary. Yeah, I want it back.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: I know this is not good for them, but I'm
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: I'm just going And how could it be that on
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: my side when I'm using it as tell I'm okay.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: When I had to that, I feel like got lost.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: I've lost.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that it feels kind of I've had that
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: moment too, and you know, I think it's so hard.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: You know, it's there are so many reasons why parents
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: can make that choice, but like there's this guilt that
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: comes from like this. It feels like you're doing the
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: wrong thing in that moment. And I mean, really, when
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: you really think at it, it's this. Your child is
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: being exposed to this intentionally manipulative digital environment that is
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: designed to stimulate their brains in certain ways, that is
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: sucking them into this vortex. We know it's addictive and
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: you know, participating in it anyway, and so that feels terrible.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Sot me just ask you. I mean, based on what
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: you've learned. Have you seen examples of parents or families
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: that are able to coexist with this and have there
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: be a place in their lives for kids participating in
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: a more open source, I guess digital environment. I know
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: one of your solutions is creating a separate device, and
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: we can talk more about that, but I'm curious to
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: know if there are places or in the digital landscape
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: or practices that families could do that feel healthier and
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: so like right now I'm thinking about you know, roadblocks,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: and I've seen some sketchy things on roadblocks, but have
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: also seen my kids like they having relationships with other
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: kids on roadblocks. Now, I know that opens up a
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: whole new door, like are they kids and they're.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: Doing like age verification now and all of that, But
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: even for our son who's older, I mean, maintain painting
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: relationships with people through games that they're playing online.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, I have seen some wonderful educational content. And
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: I guess I would love to hear your thoughts about
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: what this can look like when it's okay or do
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: you think it's like now, it's it's too addictive, it's
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: too powerful.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I've talked for a lot of parents because
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: the company that built there is the spectrum of no
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Internet at all, you know what I'm saying, and no
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: devices and nothing. Yeah, I'm a total rejection. And then
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: there's the you know where a lot of parents are,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: which is just kind of a I'd say, like I'm saying,
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: you're passively engaged in your children, so you're handing them
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: a device and right, and then in the middle there's
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: somewhere where you're downloading the right type of apps that
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: are more educational and stuff like that. But it's a
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: fight because the device and the and the content behind
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: it was never made for that world. You know, I
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: go back, I'll be a little dramatic, like if you
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: don't walk into her crackhouse and call it her nursery.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: So it is what it is, like they like, we
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: know the stories, like you know, Steve Jobs never let
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: his kids know. And I've talked to YouTube executives, by
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: the way, who don't let their kids use YouTube.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: That's interesting.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: I had a call with whether senior executives on the
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: kids sides. I only let my kids watch, I don't
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: let them scroll, So it's very ange. I don't like.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Even the CEO said that. A couple of weeks ago,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I saw Neil Patel. He was talking about the same thing.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: He's like, he doesn't let his kids. He regulates the
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: use of the technology that he's providing to the wall.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: So the problem is, I think it's a constant battle,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: and I haven't seen any parent that I've talked to
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: many that have won the battle.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, time to talk about success. If you have a
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  Speaker 1: slash lhs. Okay, so this is interesting and I just
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: want to crack into a little bit further. So you're
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: saying that the designers of these systems, the YouTube executives
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: who are making these things available to our kids, are
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: not letting their own kids participate in it.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Why why they have to do? You know, like they're
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: looking at the data and they see what's happening, they
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: see the scroll, they know the content that actually works
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: really well. I was at a big influencer conference in
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Dubai a couple of weeks ago. Was speaking there and
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: uh it was you know, forty thousand of these people
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: were there and they all they and I went to
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: I went to a lot of lectures on how do
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: you get people to engage in content? And it's it's
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: it's interesting, you know, like what are all the ways
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: in which you can trick people? To trick them? But
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: it's like you're playing into these these parts of people's
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: brains and the whole industry. I mean it was like
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: lecture after one lecture about how do you make the
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: opening screen and how do you do the video, and
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: how do you do the tech? And it's all about engagement.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: And it did come to like there was no conversation
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: about like the healthy engagement of content. It was all like,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: how can you play into a person's like you know,
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: their brains and hit to them so they'll put in
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: a few minutes or a few seconds of focus on
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: your content. And so the whole and where does that
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: come from? It comes from YouTube and these companies, whether
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: it's you know, Facebook or YouTube, they built the platforms
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: to do things. You know what's the funniest thing about
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: these people?
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: Tell me?
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: I couldn't believe the funny thing about them. Every every
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: session I sat in, they talked about burnout. That the
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: people who are making the content are burning out because
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: they have the algorithm forces them to make two or
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: three or four things a day. And even if they
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: take a vacation and they don't make content for the week,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: the algorithm they drop them off. And so they they
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: are whole. I can feel the pressure their whole living.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: If they make one hundred grand a year or fifty grand,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: whatever they're doing to make a living, it's it's like
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: they're on a hamster wheel of making this content and
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: then if their content, you know, against click on, they
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: stay in business. But these people's livelihoods and because under
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: that is you two at Facebook creating these algorithms that
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: makes everyone in the game of get people addicted. It's
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: an addiction. It's all about addiction because that's what you see,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: and it's very flipid and everyone's under stress. The whole
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: I saw, the whole cycle is that people created and
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: under that of these big tech companies that are sitting
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: there manipulating the algorithms and forcing the whole cycle to happen.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: And we're on the other bottery we gotta we gotta go.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Is that there are twenty million creators in the world.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: The competition they each need to make a dollar or
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: a euro or whatever that may, so that the competition
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: to create things that get us to and the best
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: way to do that is create content that plays into,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: you know, the most base level of human emotions, you know, hate.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, sex, thinking, they're a whole porn situation,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: especially with I mean sometimes young kids, which is very concerning.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: That's like a whole other dimension of this, you know, it's.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: The reptile ring, like fake the reptile brain and break
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: it out. It's the basic human emotion, you know, fear, greed, sex,
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: all that stuff, and then play into that and you're
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: good to go. So we think because it's YouTube kids
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: and should be not playing into that, but it is
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: playing into that. It's it's like it's kinney porn. It
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: just doesn't look like say like maybe don't naked people there,
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: but there's very seductive things for kids. You know. It's
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: like if you look. So I'm just saying, like the
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: machine itself. Unfortunately, I don't know, I haven't seen many
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: parents that have battled it like oh it health relationship.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Well, but you know what's so interesting and I really
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: appreciate your taking us all behind the scenes, I mean
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: from your experience is like at this conference and what
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, what you're saying is is just like we
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: know this, but really to hear you say it, there's
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: this whole economy that is dependent on all of these
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: creators and it really is quite cutthroat and almost the
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: way you described it, like the desperation of all of
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: these content creators to be seen, just a visible to
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: get one more click one more scroll, and that it's
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: attached to their survival and so they will do I mean,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, this will sound hyperbolic. I was about to
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: say anything, okay, that anything to like just you know,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: stay there visible, one more click, one more scroll when
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: more watched, you know, their own burning out. I mean,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: I've seen things where content creators are developing these elaborate
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: AI based content generation machines and they're not even making
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: the content. All this stuff is kind of churning it
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: out for them, so they're like disconnected. But then we
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: have these little like six year old children getting sucked
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: into the vortex and that it is so powerful and
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: intentionally so and it's almost impossible to fight in some ways.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: It's like going into a crackhouse and.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: I you know, because I went, I've been, I had
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: to go go. I understand, I'm talking talk about first principles.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: I want to yeah, all this right, yeah, and what
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: I've seen and I'll take it to the adult level.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: There is no reality. I can tell you that there
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: is no reality more.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: You've been hanging out with a dalai lama, by the way,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: so like this this could get this very existential. There
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: is no reality Okay, I.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Gotta tell you, and I'll I can give you examples
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: that I will. But based on think of this, there
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: are twenty million of them in the world who have
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: to make content to make some sort of living, whether
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: it's five dollars a day or it's like the mister Beasts,
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: which is one hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Right,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: he's yeah, Stack and the Andrew Hooper wants and those guys, right,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: but go all the way down. There's twenty million of
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: them globally or making content, either getting paid to make content,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: or they just make content to get advertising around you
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: like there are companies that pay creators to create content
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: because they don't want to make Okay, there's three million
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: podcasters like yourself here we are, yes, right, there's another
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: When you look at top, there's eighty thousand legitimate news
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: organizations in the world. Think of all the layers of
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: all those people who need content to stay alive. Now
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: you're doing this as an extra thing on business that
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: you have that's legitimate. There are people whose whole life
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: is just this. If they don't keep this going that
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: machine and they don't get clicks and views, then they
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: actually don't make money, like you're doing something to provide
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: value to your clients. But this is also valuable. But Matt,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: this was it and this could be it now you
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: may have this content or you may realize the only
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: way to get people viewing is by having a little
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: edge on it.
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: M hmm.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: I've been told to be more dramatic, but yeah, the.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Joe Rotan stuff, the well, not judging any of it,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: but the more about the conspiracy and the instant reptail,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: right yea. From that for a second, I'm gonna give
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: you an example, like they'll be interesting. I like, there's
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: been this conversation about the AI and Ball. I don't
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: know if you're wearing this card, like is it AI bubble?
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: And all these valuations are too big if you if
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: you look at the data and I I have a
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: tool that was the social media and all the all
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: the stuff's happening in burned media and newspapers, podcasts, they're
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: like about six months ago, all of a sudden, you
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: see this rise in conversation around that topic AI and
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Ball okay, and it's it's And I looked at the
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: top people where it's starting from them, like is it
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: c NBC because eventually got the CNBC saying and these
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: companies are value Microsoft. No, it's like there's YouTube channels
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: which are faceless. Really, they don't have a person. They
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: just have an icon in a name. It's not even
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: a person's name. And this person has millions of views
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: on a piece of content around the AI bubble, and
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: you'll see a lot what you see is all these
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: nondescript people engaged in that. Then what's happening is that
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: everyone's looking at the trend like where, oh wow, that
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: person got a million views. I'm going to create some
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: content around that. Okay, so they create content. Then you
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: start seeing the trend upwards of like more content then
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: would eventuously What was more to me is like when
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: does it get to see NBC? When is the New
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: York Times, Wall Street Journal right about the AI bubble?
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: They eventually will get there because they are their reporters
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: are looking at what's trending in Twitter, what's trending on
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Instagram's right, what's trending in YouTube. They're seeing and they're like,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: want to talk about this, and they make the story.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: These stories are not real. I'm just say the guy
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: like the original people and there's original group, but I
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: can't figure out how they're they're let's say they're not
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: coordinated just looking at what they what they're doing is
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: they're fishing. They're throwing stuff out all day and they
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: see where it connects with humans and they're clicking and watching.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: But there's no reality. That's not a real story. There
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: is no eyeball. There is no That's what I'm saying.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Like every topic you think that's hot, right, it could be.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: There's a big one obviously about vaccines, and we have
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: a government that throws a lot of stuff out there
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: so you can hop out or quick. But what's happening
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: is so I started to think of like where what's
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: real here? It's just that they need to have content
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: that is clickable and viewable, regardless if it's real, and
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: then it becomes real. That narrative eventually becomes real because yes,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: earned media, the legitimate media can start to put their
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: view on it. Like I saw it NBC. It was
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: like there's a week of like is it real? Is
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: in video? Real is a bubble? Everyone's all the stock's
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: going to the stock market's gonna go down, you go,
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: you know, and they all start to talk about it.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: It's all fraught. They're doing off bounds. I mean, it's amazing,
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, and then it goes like this, You'll
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: see it peaks. It's about it's about a three month
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: cycle usually, and it'll because after three months we get
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: bored of everything and it peaks and it comes down
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: and now AI bubble is no longer really Okay, okay,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: you can do it with vaccines, you can do take
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: every major topic and watch and watchable habit. It will
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: actually burn out, and I guess it wasn't real. I guess.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: So what I'm trying to say is that twenty million people,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: three million podcasters, eight thousand mws and everything thing about
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: every day of every hour, they're fighting to stay alive,
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: to get revenue, add dollars, clicks use. So it doesn't
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: matter anymore. I can make up a topic, yeah, we
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: should try that a topic thing, But what is the
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: nature reality of this? Not being like I've been watching
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: these trends that I'm laughing because I'm like, and now
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: I see them, and now I eventually see them bubble up.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: It's us. The news media unfortunately captures these things, legitimizes them,
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: and then that's where it gets to its peak. And
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: then those people who need all the clicks, they know
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: it's gonna fall off, and they're finding the next top
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: and you'll see what they're doing. They throw on topic
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: after topic after topic until they get a hit and
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: the hit. Why why is AI bubble the corn? Because
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: people have their money in the stock market, and the
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: whole fear is of what I'll lose my wealth. That's
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: what was get you here. It's real. Not the stock
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: cort is gonna drop by one hundred point, it's gonna
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: be another dot com creator. We're all gonna lose on
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: and so not to go on and on, but this
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: is the machine. It's then connected to us as adults
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: and our children and everyone else in between, and they
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: need that that thing goes. So all I'm saying is
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: like you're fighting a world out of about twenty five
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: million humans that are focused every hour of the day
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: to get you to do something so they can make money.
• 40:15
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  Speaker 1: thank you so much for taking us into this and
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: for explaining it so well, and just this idea that
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: people are out there basically I mean, forgive the French,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: but like making shit up to see like what people
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: react to. And then there's this jumping on everybody else's train,
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: and now we're all talking about this trying to like
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: get those clicks and views, and then it sort of
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: bubbles up through everybody's awareness until you know, a CNBC
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: reporter learns about it and then maybe it can actually
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: change what's happening in the stock market.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: And it's like.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: These these ideas, but also that there is this you know,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: not to get too big here, but like people are
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: forming their opinions about the world and what is true
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: and what this works, and who I am and who
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: other people are based on some of these things. And
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: we can see that there have been very destructive consequences
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: to that. And and what you're saying is that like
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's like the ocean, like you're what are
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: you going to fight the waves of the ocean? You're not?
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: And so so that there needs to be a you know,
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: what I I'm enjoying about talking to you is that
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: you have this very high level perspective of being able
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: to see the machine as a whole, what it is,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: how it works, and you can like there's a psychological distance.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: But I think that most grown adults like me can
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: you know, it's like we're in the washing machine. We
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: don't have that perspective. This is just like what's true
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: in the world. And how that becomes even more intensified
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: when it's a child who doesn't even have the frame
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: of reference to consider that, you know, what they're seeing
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: is maybe not great.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Think about our kids have a different set of needs.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Maybe yeah, they're not worried about money, let's say, and
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: our wealth. We lose our wealth because of stock market class.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: So they're playing a different game of view over there,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: and a lot of it is about like, you know,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: the hitting kids are territorial you know, yeah, right, they
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: have these they're forming now really how to they're learning
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: how to form relationships with people or yes, so they're
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: they're playing a lot into that, you know, beginning development
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: of relationships, building where do I sit in the world
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: with friends? Am I in? Am I out? And so
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: they're they're playing a lot into these narratives. And all
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: I'm saying is that you're fighting this week. We go
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: back fortunately ten minutes ago, where we're fighting against something
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: that's quite sophisticated. Unfortunately, there's it's it's hundreds and hundreds
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: and hundreds of billions of dollars. That's system. And this
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: is not a game. It's these are people's livelihoods. Only
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: people need to make a livelihood off of us doing stuff.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: So all I'm saying is that the way to beat
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: it is to have at least if you can put
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: that filter on and go, WHOA, what is reality? M Like,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: my kids are watching stuff and I know that someone's
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: behind this that's trying to do bad stuff. Let me fine,
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: and let me be investigated. What the heck's inside that
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: message to kids absolutely is not mister Rogers making contact.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: No, okay, well, so I'd love to ask you just
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: a couple more questions if do you have a little
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: bit more time to hang out a minute? Okay? Well,
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: then I'll think this hard. No no, no no. And
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: I know we started a little bit late. So so
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: one other thing that I will just also say that
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: I think hasn't been said in this conversation yet, but
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: that has come up for me who's a parent who
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: is also a psychologist, right, is that we also know
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: from research that when brains are developing, they are much
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: more vulnerable to addictive processes and that the consequences can
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: be longer term. Like so, for example, if a person
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: begins experimenting with like alcohol, cannabis, other substances when they
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: are very young, like twelve thirteen, fourteen, there is a
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: much greater and more destructive impact on their brain that
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: exists well into the lifespan. Like those people are much
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: more vulnerable to developing very severe, persistent drug and alcohol
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: addictions compared to even somebody who is seventeen eighteen nineteen
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: starting to experiment with alcohol and cannabis, like because of
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: the brain development that is happening in certain stages. And
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: I just want to add that idea to the conversation
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: to illustrate the importance because if you're young adolescent, your
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: ten year old is going down these rabbit holes and
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: these addictive substances that we do need to be cognizant
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: about the long term effects that Unfortunately, we don't have
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: the longitudinal data even at this point to really understand
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: what's what's happening. And so I think that that feels scary.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: To me, and I think I think we're at a
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: place where you know, I remember, you know, cigarettes when
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: I was a kid was cool.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: I know, I too was a teenager in the nineties.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: Like exactly, and my like, my dad smoked and it
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: was cool. And Johnny Carson and member John Carson smoking,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: like famous people smoked, and it was it was cool.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: And then eventually, you remember, there were whistleblowers at these
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: companies that came out and there was like and then
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: movies got made about this stuff. Eventually it was it
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: was basically they knew what they were doing. We're in
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: a period of time where they know what they're doing
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: and we know what they're doing, Like people knew that
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: smoking was harming you. People had emphasy, but they died
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: of lung cancer. But they there was there was no
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: coming clean because it was so so much money was
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: running through the and I think we're in a place where,
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously Australia now banned social media below the
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: age of teenage, you know and stuff. But I actually
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: as kids are learning to get around that and what
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: they just pay a different birthday or they I heard
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: believe or not that you put makeup on you can
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: they take a picture of your face and see if
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: it matches, and putting makeup on and stuff to make
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: themselves look colder to get on to get it's crazy, yeah,
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: but you yeah, anyway, we're going to get in a
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: place where maybe there's whistleblowers maybe, and eventually these things
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: get to unravel, but I think we're far from that today.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Thank you for a fascinating conversation. And hey, before I
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: let you go, tell us tell us a little bit
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: more about the solution that you have been working on,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: because what I hear you say is like, don't even try,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: you're going to lose that. And instead you know, create
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: a new situation where your kids can have access to
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: content a device that is not out to manipulate them.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: And also that does meet some of the needs that
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: we have. And you know, I mean kids do need
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: to learn how to exist in a digital environment. So
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: tell us what you've been working on.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, So I have a colleague called Kitcode dot Ai
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: and basically we built a device that allows children to
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: take the power of AI and be their best creators.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: So they can create music, and they create art, and
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: they can create stories and talk to buddies. But it's
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: all under a set of technologies that are safe. Comply
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: and I make sure we're compliant and COPE complies to
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: the FDC rating that content can harm children. Children can
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: create harmful content, you can't use their data to target them.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: It's all the stuff that YouTube kids will never be
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: COP compliant. So I said, we want the compliance, but
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: it's really about this is an AI generation, like my
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: kid's going to be an AI generation, and something to
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: start to learn how to prompt and talk use it
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: as a tool for creativity. The problem I'm seeing really
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: interesting is we've launched and we have about four hundred
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: families that sign up right before Christmas and then we're
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: continuing selling. But like it doesn't create addictive behavior, like
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: there's no scrolling on it, you know, Like so it
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: does where we see the power is where parents and
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: children they create, Like I create stories with my kids
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: at night, and the stories come alive in pictures and
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: music narration and it's like Rob and Leonardo are flying
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: over to Mars and blah blah blah, and it creates that.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: So this is a power to it, but it's it's
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: forces a little bit more engagement than hand the kid.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: They have your child, the kit device, walk away and
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: then But funny because some parents want us to make
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: it like good addictive. You said that they want good addictive,
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: and it's like they want like just hand the device
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: and make it. So my kids are playing games, doing
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: things in there, but there's no good addictive. It's like
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: it's it's hard to make. So we think that's safe.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: It's it's and it's doing well and we're playing great feedback.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: But but it's I want to also have a device
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: because the device is the enabler. It's the front door.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: Too bad on tip, So we want to make a
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: device no camera on the device. Yeah, so things that
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: are safe for the children.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: I could see how that matters. Okay, So and it
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: is because I'm going to look this up and and
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: see see if maybe this could be a good solution
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: at the body house. It is called the killed Ai
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Kidco dot A. I all right, what what is? What
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: does Leonardo think about this?
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: He loves it, you know, he was one of the
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: inventors of it, and he made and stuff. But uh,
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: you know, it's it's by the way, it's still a battle.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to say it's I'm still battling.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, roadblocks is pretty cool, but.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: I have to be honest.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: Well, but it's it's Leo approved, all right. The company
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: is Kidco dot Ai. And and rob thank you so
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: much though for in addition to telling us about this,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: I mean also just you know, just the behind the
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: curtain insider view of a situation that we're all experiencing.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: But I think you added very valuable perspective and layer
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: of understanding to this and maybe maybe we'll have the
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: opportunity to talk more about some of your other reflections
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: at another time.
• 53:12
  Speaker 5: And for having.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: That was a fascinating conversation with Robert Lucasio, and I
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: don't know about you, but I learned a lot of
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: things and I just want to follow up here. I mean,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Rob gave us a lot of perspective and certainly a
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: middle path right to bring in another element to our
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: children's lives. But I also before we wrap up, when
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: I acknowledge the complexity of this whole landscape for a
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: lot of us, and just highlight the fact that there
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: may be other things alive in your life right now
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: that you could use support with above and beyond potentially
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: bringing another type of device into your home to throw
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: at your kids instead of an iPad. So, okay, a
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: couple of things. First of all, in my experience as
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: a marriage and family therapist, there can be a need
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: for support in a family, specifically in a couple around
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: how do we as partners get on the same page
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: about the unified message we are going to be sending
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: to our kids so that we are in alignment and
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: we also have a game plan in place for how
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: we as a couple co parents are going to be
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: supporting our kids and managing this. And you'd be surprised
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: at how many couples have you know, fight a lot
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: about differing belief systems about this. One person's like, it's
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: not that big of a deal. The other person's like, no,
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: it is. And you know who bears the responsibility for
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: being the enforcer? And so there could be all kinds
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: of stuff there. If that just resonated for you, relationship
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: coaching can be incredibly helpful. So you know, coming together
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: with a professional like one are the marriage and family
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: therapists here at growing self to talk about, Okay, let's
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: create a shared vision for how you'd both like this
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: to look that takes both of your value systems belief
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: systems into play and helping both of you create a
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: unified vision for how you're going to handle this in
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: your family, so that you have a game plan for
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: how to do things differently, not just for your kids,
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: but also in a way that protects your relationship if
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about. You know. But the
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: other thing that is here is related to how we
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: as adults are engaging with some of this technology. I mean, yeah,
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: we were talking a bit about the impact on kids,
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: but as Robert was talking, I was thinking about like,
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, and like these are very powerful forces
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: that we are all engaging with on a daily basis,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: and sometimes to the detriment of ourselves. Right, I know,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: I personally have been way too long going down weird
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: rabbit holes and you look up. No, I don't know
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: what just happened, but I wasted a lot of time,
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: and especially when it becomes habitual, it can start to
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: get in our way. Just like kids are vulnerable to
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: this addiction, so are adults. And there are even bigger
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: fish swimming around in these waters. I mean, pornography addiction
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: is also operating on these same systems that Rob talked about,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: as well as some of what's happening now with these
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: AI based persons. I mean, you've heard previous episodes of
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: this podcast on the relationships that people are developing with
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: AI based technologies and some of the pros and cons there.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: If you're like, wait, what I have resources for? You
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: can scroll back through my feed and listen to a
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: fascinating episode with doctor Rachel Wood on AI and relationships
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: if you want to check that out. And as you do,
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: be thinking about, you know, am I or perhaps a
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: loved one using this in a way that is destructive, detrimental,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: getting in the way of other relationships, getting in the
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: way of my mental and emotional health and like that's
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: a thing because we're also talking about concrete strategies and
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: actions that you can take to haul yourself back out
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: of that weird hole. And then I would recommend an
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: episode with my friend and colleagues at the s SAM
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: on the impact of ornography addiction and his take on
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: what that is and how to begin separating yourself from
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: that if that has taken hold of your life. So
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: those are a few more resources for you. And then additionally,
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: I think that there can be a place for life
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: coaching in this and the sense of like holistic life design.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: I mean many people come into coaching ideally, by the way,
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional who is also a
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: certified coach, because you have to keep in mind coaching
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: is totally unregulated and anybody can call themselves a coach,
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: but but a licensed therapist who does coaching to talk
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: about your life and the life that you want to have. Right, Like,
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: if you're listening to this and thinking about how your
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: digital use is too much, it's impacting you in a
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: way that doesn't feel good, that it's not concents with
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: your values, the life you want to have where you
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: want to go. There's this whole approach we take that
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: I think of as holistic life design that is multi dimensional.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: But we're talking about what are your relationships, like what
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: is your relationship with yourself? Like, how do you feel
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: a day today? How is your health? How are your friendships?
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: How is your sense of community? What do you do
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: for fun? Do you is there a spiritual dimension of
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: your life that you would like to explore? Are you
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: learning and growing? How's your job? How's that feeling for you?
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: And looking at so many different things right like what
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: kind of parent are you? And is that feeling congruent
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: with who you are and what you want? And we're
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: looking at all kinds of things that are either helping
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: you and contributing in a positive ways to who you
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: are and where you want to go, but also what
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: are the obstacles and what are the practices or factors
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: in your life that you may be engaging in that
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: are out of alignment with who you want to be
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: and what you want your life to be about. And
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: this can look like a lot of different things, certainly
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: spending too much time on your phone or going into
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: weird digital landscapes that are creating disconnect, they're creating anxiety,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: they're disrupting other relationships, or even just the time you
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: have to do things that do fill your cup a
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: little bit more could be one of them. I mean,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: there can be all kinds of practices and habits that
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: people engage in that we sort of do on autopilot
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: after a while, but that when you really have the
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: opportunity to sit down and reflect and make more intentional decisions, like, yeah,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: I should probably make some changes there, and not in
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: a punitive way and not in a draconian or all
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: or nothing type way. But I think for most of
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: us it's worth it's worth having that kind of reflective
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: space every once in a while so that we can
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: check in with ourselves and make changes, maybe maybe small
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: sea changes, or maybe if you're in a place where
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: you look around at your life and like, I am
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: not having a good time and there are so many
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: things if I don't like right now, and this is
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: feeling very different than you know, the life, that I
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: really want to be able to sit down and do
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: a whole inventory and a full holistic life design plan
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: could be incredibly useful for you. And so I just
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: wanted to put that in front of you as an option,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: because I think the reality is sometimes we can talk
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: about these things on podcasts like this and like, yeah,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: great idea, and maybe I should, you know, change my
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: relationship to my digital consumption. But then there's this how
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: how do I do that part? Especially when it's so available,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: it's so easy in this thing that we just kind
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: of do reflexively without thinking too much about it and
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: also without thinking about the long term consequences to us
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: for doing it. And the path to changing that is
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: typically through a coaching process that is not pathologizing you.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: You know, we're not making this about all your deep
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: dark traumas and that there's a pathology there. We're not
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: labeling you, we're not diagnosing you, but is really a
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: much more wellness focused, strengths based, values based orientation that
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: helps you just get reconnected with yourself and then develop
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: action plans for making positive changes, but also creating sustained
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: motivation and accountability to help you follow through and create
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: sustained change, because that's the hard part. Right. We can
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: all put our phones down for an evening, but then
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: picking them back up again, right, doesn't matter. So anyway,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: if you're interested in exploring that or doing that kind
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: of work, come to me practice growing self dot com.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: Everybody that I work with in my practice is a
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: very experienced licensed mental health professional who is also a
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: board certified coach who practices coaching psychology, which is very
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: different than psychotherapy. Yes, you will get insights, certainly is
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: part of this and understand yourself better. We will talk
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: about those patterns and why you are the way you are,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: but that's like step one and part of a bigger
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: process that actually carries you forward and translates the things
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: that you're talking about and these insights you're getting into
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: actual sustained changes in your life through a coaching process
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: that is quite different from therapy. So come to growing
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: self dot com to learn more about that. You can
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: schedule a free consultation with one of the therapists that
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: I support through my practice Growing Self and also just
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: throw it out there. Something that I've been doing more
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: and more of lately is trying to fill a gap
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: in my profession. I think that coaching meets the needs
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: for so many people who don't have clinical mental health conditions,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: but who want to work on themselves and create changes
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: in their lives. And fascinatingly might surprise you, therapists have
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: typically no exposure to coaching. Psychology, and therapists are equipped
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: with a tool set that is very appropriate for meeting
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: the needs of people who are dealing with mental health issues,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: but that don't always translate very well to the kinds
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: of things that we're talking about today. And so I
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: have begun through my business doing coach training for therapists
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: because there's just such a need. And as part of
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: my coach training program for therapists, I actually put them
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: through an eight week practicum where they get to practice
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: the things that they're learning about, because honestly, it's a
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: really steep learning curve for some of them, and they
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: do need to practice this before they go out to
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: the world and start offering coaching services. It's because there
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: are so many different competencies that therapists literally don't learn.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: But okay, why am I telling you this is that
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: through this practicum, it is really it's a training experience
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: for therapists, and we're creating opportunities for people to get
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: connected with therapists. Going through my training program to get
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: eight sessions of coaching with a licensed therapist who's learning
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: coaching at a deeply, deeply discounted rate compared to what coaching,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: especially coaching with a therapist usually costs, which is I
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: mean easily two hundred between usually between two and three
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: hundred dollars a session, but through this training program, it's
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: like forty nine dollars a session because we're not this
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: isn't like a money making thing for my business. This
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: is covering our operating costs to do this and you know,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: giving our students opportunities to learn, but also give you
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: an opportunity to do this type of coaching at a
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: deeply discounted rate because as soon as the therapist graduate
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: from my coaching program, they're charging close to three hundred
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: dollars a session, and you will have the opportunity to
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: do a lot of this work at a fraction of
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: the cost. So anyway, to learn more about this, you
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: can also come to my website growing self dot com
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: forward slash Grow, Growing self dot com forward slash Grow,
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: and it will take you to a page to learn
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: more about these opportunities and also complete a right fit assessment,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: which will you know, just make sure like is a
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: coaching approach consistent with what it is that you want
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: and need to get out of this, and if the
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: answer is yes, then you'll have the opportunity to enroll
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: in this program and access eight sessions of coaching with
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional at a deeply discounted rate.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: So anyway, there you have it. Now, thank you so
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: much for spending this time with me today, and I
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: hope you got some takeaways. I'll be back in touch
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: very soon with another episode of love, happiness and success,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: and we will keep this whole conversation going