Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Frazer Gregory & Si Hart about their choice of Genesis of the Daleks (2/4)

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Talks to Frazer Gregory & Si Hart about their choice of Genesis of the Daleks (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  I'm so drunk. Welcome back to a hamster with a
• 0:41
  blunt. Penknife the Doctor Who comment
• 0:43
  free podcast Simon. Heart has got a beer in his
• 0:47
  hand. Fraser Gregory has got a
• 0:50
  Guinness in his hand. I've got a cup of coffee in my
• 0:53
  hands and we're more than ready to embark on episode 2 of
• 0:58
  Genesis of the Daleks however gentlemen before we go in.
• 1:03
  I have a question for you both no not a question of us both
• 1:08
  both of you. Yeah.
• 1:10
  And it's about David Maloney who.
• 1:14
  So I kind of think there's like like tears with directors.
• 1:17
  As there's the a-listers, there's the b list as and
• 1:22
  there's definitely the c-listers as we hit the 80s or I will talk
• 1:25
  about it a bit. But anyway, I basically want to
• 1:28
  know where you think he falls and Do you think this is his
• 1:33
  best directed story and we're going to start with Fraser.
• 1:40
  Right direction isn't always my wheelhouse.
• 1:44
  It's not something that I haven't paid much attention to
• 1:47
  until I'd like to start talking to you guys and want to remind
• 1:50
  me, what else did we do? Only has directly did the mind
• 1:53
  Robert, the protons, WarGames planet of the Daleks Genesis of
• 1:56
  the Daleks canít of evil, Deadly Assassin and turn to when train
• 2:04
  There's probably four stories in there that are considered
• 2:07
  absolute conquering Classics. Yes, planet of evil obviously, I
• 2:14
  mean he tackled the wall crazy. And the water contained a
• 2:17
  disappointment. Yeah, I mean those are all that
• 2:22
  there's not, there's not enough air in there.
• 2:24
  Is there already know? Even the croutons knowing with
• 2:27
  court answered protons is interesting, like interestingly
• 2:30
  directed, if nothing else it's interesting throughout. to be
• 2:34
  honest, is the croutons obviously, the main drawback is
• 2:38
  Genius, you can see the DNA between this and Deadly
• 2:44
  Assassin. Can't you with, you know, the
• 2:47
  gas masks in the gravel and the slow motion so you can
• 2:51
  definitely see. This is the same guy that's
• 2:53
  done. You know, Deadly Assassin.
• 2:54
  So, probably see, I'm on the basis of Those stories, it's
• 3:01
  probably going to be ears and yeah II think he's an a-lister
• 3:05
  so I absolutely he yeah he's top-tier he's there with Douglas
• 3:10
  Canfield I think as the kings of classic Doctor Who I can't think
• 3:16
  of anyone who quite comes close and David Maloney gets difficult
• 3:22
  Productions as well. So you've got things like Deadly
• 3:25
  Assassin where you've got a story where there's no
• 3:29
  companion. So, He's taking it on, you've
• 3:31
  got a very surreal, all the location footage in one episode
• 3:36
  just about stuff. He makes that stupid long fights
• 3:43
  seem tense and I'm not a big fan of Deadly Assassin but it is
• 3:48
  well directed and then he encourages the camp through
• 3:52
  episode 4 so that's fine. Many people would say that.
• 3:56
  But I think episode for The Deadly Assassin is one of the
• 3:58
  funniest Doctor Who Would Rassilon star.
• 4:04
  Oh yeah, the Mind robber. And the war games and this, and
• 4:18
  although I'd read say it, there are moments of planet of evil
• 4:21
  that are really quite. Well, directed people is very
• 4:24
  well directed, I think especially the like it is a bit
• 4:29
  dreary. An ant bomb.
• 4:31
  It's very well realize and lit and designed and I think that's
• 4:36
  what he brings. He brings control on the studio
• 4:39
  floor and he's on top of this own planet of the Daleks was a
• 4:43
  huge whooping, great Bing story to do.
• 4:46
  So that's a six-part story that is mostly in the studio.
• 4:50
  So you've got about five minutes of film footage in the middle of
• 4:53
  the story, and that's it. So, he's got a hell of a lot to
• 4:57
  do in the studio, but he does it.
• 5:00
  Like people criticize planet of the Daleks for what it is.
• 5:05
  But I think given what he's asked to do which is essentially
• 5:08
  an action movie in a cramped BBC Studio.
• 5:12
  What he pulls off in that is terrific.
• 5:15
  Imagine if it had been Richard Martin, I'd rather that's all I
• 5:18
  will say. The Daleks because, you know
• 5:23
  that's you know what Barry let in terms dick said about Terry
• 5:28
  nation is your soldiers, the script already for Planet, the
• 5:30
  Daleks in death to the Daleks but the more different stories,
• 5:34
  this is the heart of it. You know, is another thing about
• 5:39
  termination. He's it's not even that.
• 5:43
  Predictable, you know, all of these guys Dalek stories do
• 5:47
  something differently mean obviously, we have the
• 5:49
  beginnings of the Daleks here if you go from the Daleks itself,
• 5:53
  the first one into Dalek invasion of Earth, you've got
• 5:58
  again, it is completely different set up.
• 6:01
  You know, these creatures can now mobilize and concur with our
• 6:04
  planets now and going into the chase, which is just madcap.
• 6:09
  But, you know, yeah, what's going on with that?
• 6:13
  After lunch, you know, which is surprisingly Grimm, again, the
• 6:17
  dance master plan is, yeah, well, darling Basin of Earth, as
• 6:21
  well. With is very Grim.
• 6:23
  Yeah, death to the Daleks actually first episode is, yeah,
• 6:28
  it's surprisingly dark in places but again it's an it's a new
• 6:32
  idea, isn't it? It's take the doll looks
• 6:35
  Firepower. Take off the dollar if I don't
• 6:37
  think they actually do anything with it, but it's quickly ideas
• 6:40
  there, you know, ideas, Devin planet of the Daleks Because you
• 6:43
  know well what if we have invisible, Daleks and planets
• 6:46
  full of dollars and you know for this it was like well what
• 6:48
  you're going to do next and he does Android Invasion which
• 6:51
  again as a stunning first episode he's great at openings.
• 6:55
  Yeah he really does not assessing, doesn't he what?
• 6:58
  You just he's just he's he's a much better and much more
• 7:03
  talented writer than I think a lot of funding given credit for
• 7:07
  a lot more imaginative and diverse you know in terms of his
• 7:11
  storytelling, then he actually gets credit for I just think he,
• 7:14
  I think his biggest weakness, and this is what I love you can
• 7:17
  focus on is, I think he gets a bit bored before the end of the
• 7:20
  stories and he just hash it out, step aside, right wants to be on
• 7:24
  to the next next thing. Yeah.
• 7:27
  But again, if people are letting him do this, mmm, then, you
• 7:31
  know, compare this store with Destiny of the Daleks where,
• 7:34
  which is just the bare bones of the story that is produced, you
• 7:37
  know, if you know, Douglas Adams, boom, Williams who went
• 7:41
  back and said no, Terry give us more.
• 7:44
  Try again we might X whines I disagree with you then cause I
• 7:47
  really like it. Also Destiny of the Daleks I
• 7:49
  think as that great action sequences outside the Medellin
• 7:52
  ship, I think it has been a really interesting idea of the
• 7:55
  logical and pass which they managed to project the children
• 7:57
  in a very smart. And but simple way and Tom
• 8:03
  Baker's completely fucking insane by the end of that story
• 8:07
  and the scariest thing on the screen but yeah I get what
• 8:11
  you're saying. He can't run out of steam.
• 8:13
  Sure. I think the problem is quite
• 8:16
  often, Terry Nation rides on the coattails of his his own.
• 8:24
  What's the word? His own Legend almost that.
• 8:28
  He's been told he's a great writer so he sort of rides, the
• 8:33
  coattails of that and just coasts proofing.
• 8:35
  So a lot of it is his work in the 60s for the ITC shows is
• 8:41
  really interesting because there is the story.
• 8:43
  Re and it's a brilliant story. And I love it of one night in
• 8:48
  the states where they're showing that they because they didn't
• 8:50
  ported. All the all the ITC shows and
• 8:53
  they showed to Terry Nation, written episodes of different
• 8:58
  shows that were the same story on the same night battle.
• 9:03
  I think it was the Saints and the baron, the baron.
• 9:06
  And so, there is that kind of hackery about it, where no one
• 9:11
  will notice, if I sell you this Lori again because I've kind of
• 9:15
  done this and for a yeah that was some night.
• 9:18
  He got found out what there are ideas that okay like he does
• 9:22
  like a good play doesn't say anything he does to me.
• 9:25
  Yeah, and he loves a countdown and we'll get be getting a
• 9:28
  countdown. Next episode.
• 9:30
  This is full of his cliches. I've just think he's all but
• 9:33
  it's but it's all just a with that extra bit of Gusto.
• 9:38
  Yeah, and the difference here is is like, you know, dies masked
• 9:41
  man is the ultimate example of Every Nation getting bored of
• 9:44
  way through because the chips outcome episode 7 and that's
• 9:47
  come back. Look, stunning spoon of finish
• 9:49
  it off. I'm over two years of the
• 9:51
  state's whereas I think because this is such an important story.
• 9:59
  This has to end on something pretty spectacular boy, does it?
• 10:04
  But we're not there yet. We're doing so too.
• 10:08
  We should probably go into it. Let's do episode 2.
• 10:13
  Okay, go on now. Many counters in wait we all
• 10:17
  set. Yep.
• 10:19
  Dead. Okay.
• 10:19
  In five four, three, two, one. Hey guys, I'm perfectly
• 10:27
  convinced that I could just literally.
• 10:29
  Now are all about dogs who love you too forever.
• 10:32
  We never run out of it. Story story about that was 10
• 10:37
  minutes long, we hadn't gone into the story.
• 10:40
  What story are we doing again? Summing, number one Doctor Who
• 10:44
  story ever I believe it's not anymore.
• 10:46
  Is it? It was what top of the
• 10:47
  terminators Yeah, you all want to say Genesis the clocks don't
• 10:55
  deny it. Why don't they reprise the
• 10:58
  Cliffhanger? I think they've just got too
• 11:00
  much to do I want. There's there are time.
• 11:03
  Yeah I'm guessing so there's it's this one or the other one
• 11:07
  that overrun. I think it was absurd of three
• 11:10
  that go around the Cliffhanger was supposed to be part of
• 11:14
  episode. What happens in episode 4, but
• 11:16
  the didn't want to cut as hamsters surprisingly often in
• 11:18
  Doctor Who I am, I want to briefly because the dogs are in
• 11:24
  this. I want to briefly talk about the
• 11:26
  Daleks cause crazy, you know, or you listen to to watch who, you
• 11:32
  know, how Sarah really dislikes, the Daleks, well, they did
• 11:37
  Genesis of the Daleks and she absolutely loved them in this.
• 11:40
  And she said, it's because for once, they felt as if they were
• 11:42
  being played for real, they were being taken seriously.
• 11:45
  And they were like, a genuinely Dynamic fret, what I think is As
• 11:49
  they do in this story that is really different.
• 11:52
  Is he not only shoot something that Lit amazingly?
• 11:56
  Well in this. And they're often living Shadows
• 11:59
  with like lights. Bouncing off the casings.
• 12:02
  They look like they've painted them black.
• 12:05
  So they look like tanks. They look like, you know, people
• 12:09
  that have been made into weapons.
• 12:11
  I just think they look incredible.
• 12:13
  Another thing is that we don't actually get to see propper For
• 12:19
  the realized Daleks until the very end of the very last
• 12:24
  episode. We get the threat of the Daleks.
• 12:28
  We get, we know, you know, 50 years down the line you're off
• 12:34
  or even, you know, 10 years is this be down the line.
• 12:36
  We know what Daleks are marked Alex can do we have the doctor
• 12:41
  desperately trying to explain to everyone else around him what
• 12:43
  the Daleks on what they can do and what they will become.
• 12:47
  But we don't actually ever say that until the So we just get
• 12:50
  the threat of the Daleks without, you know.
• 12:53
  Yeah. It's almost as if we haven't
• 12:54
  given them, the opportunity to be rubbish and be defeated.
• 12:57
  We are just building them up and building them up, they use sow
• 13:00
  sparingly. So when you, when they come on
• 13:02
  the screen, you all. Yes.
• 13:05
  It's a Dalek, it's a bit of Dalek action.
• 13:07
  There's a bit of Daleks Exterminating people even then I
• 13:11
  think the imagery is so memorable, so well done.
• 13:13
  Like you know Dallas can't be shot your destiny in the dark
• 13:16
  getting wobbly on the landscape and all of this, it could have
• 13:19
  been I can always think. Yeah, it's Dave, we're about to
• 13:23
  get to that scene where davros, introduces the Dalek for the
• 13:27
  first time and that's brilliant because we know what the Dalek
• 13:32
  could do. But it's not doing it.
• 13:34
  But it is shot so brilliantly. And it's the moment where the
• 13:38
  gun where it's switched on to auton to be autonomous.
• 13:43
  And the first thing that happens is the gun stick lifts and it
• 13:47
  goes to the doctor. Yeah, yeah.
• 13:49
  Yeah and it's just wow, okay. Yeah we know what's coming.
• 13:53
  It's like I think in sort of the 80s when they kept bringing back
• 13:56
  old monsters. There was like a tendency to
• 14:00
  rely on playing on the audience's expectations but this
• 14:04
  was sort of one of the first times.
• 14:05
  This was really doubt. Well, wasn't it of like, well we
• 14:08
  know what the Daleks are about but they don't and throughout
• 14:12
  this story, they're always trying to get him shut down at
• 14:15
  they. Through various means they try
• 14:16
  and we know that I'm going to happen, we know that whatever.
• 14:20
  We know the doctor was going to lose.
• 14:22
  Yeah. Well do we know that though?
• 14:26
  Well, I think that's why the sequence where he's got.
• 14:28
  The wires is so good because it's essentially the same
• 14:31
  sequence that plays out in partner.
• 14:32
  The ways, isn't it? As long as I can end all this?
• 14:36
  Well, we don't know that at that point the plot pivots you don't
• 14:39
  know which way that's going to go where we know because we are
• 14:43
  not watching this live. That the Daleks come back again
• 14:46
  and again again again again. But you know did would audiences
• 14:50
  are about time of realize that you know, the Daleks were
• 14:52
  already Hoped off. Once went the end of evil of the
• 14:56
  Daleks. That was well, thanks off at the
• 14:58
  end of the Daleks. Yeah.
• 15:00
  You know, the Daleks were done with the 70s and, you know,
• 15:04
  didn't see them again for good. Was it for years after that?
• 15:08
  Mmm, you know. So what's to say that, you know,
• 15:11
  if you're watching this in 1970, T5 that you're not sitting thing
• 15:18
  at all. But actually, this could, you
• 15:20
  know, this could be it, this could be, you know, the doctor
• 15:22
  wins at the end. didn't, you know, destroy the Daleks are
• 15:26
  changes them in the forces for good or whatever and we crack on
• 15:31
  and when I very, very quickly, just go back to their
• 15:34
  realization. Again, when I think about this
• 15:36
  story, I think about shots like that bit where we're shooting
• 15:39
  up, and you've got the doll it with the lights of the
• 15:41
  battlefield behind it, yet with the purple and the blue, or the
• 15:45
  astonishing sequences of them, coming down the corridors in
• 15:48
  episode 6. We've done these in turns music
• 15:51
  down, turning right now, and again, let you see the Shadows
• 15:56
  thrown across the wall before you see them, you know, and
• 15:58
  there's no rules. I'm coming coming at you.
• 16:01
  No, they're going to murder all those scientists.
• 16:03
  You know, let's just say I'm speaking part for 4-pack Gorman,
• 16:08
  here always a joy. Love Pat Gorman spotting.
• 16:12
  Well, you know, because I think we should celebrate the the
• 16:15
  guest performers in this. Not a not just the ones are
• 16:18
  often set of it but I think Steven.
• 16:19
  Is it sticking Yardley? Yeah, he's really great.
• 16:22
  He is in, what is a very thankless role?
• 16:25
  He's very likeable, is that he's very charming and this guy had
• 16:28
  been Ronson is amazing because He's really over-the-top but
• 16:33
  he's over the top in exactly the right way.
• 16:36
  He goes the best death scene ever after.
• 16:39
  Yes. Now, I don't know if you've ever
• 16:42
  noticed but he has a he has a particular vocal tic.
• 16:47
  And he says, you see. All the time, but if you listen
• 16:54
  to his dialogue, particularly in the big scene that he has, where
• 16:56
  he's doing the explanation later on, in the story, he's always
• 17:00
  saying, you see before he hits anything.
• 17:03
  I think dogs, whose full of marvelous theatrical acts as
• 17:06
  like this man. Yeah.
• 17:08
  Right. This scene between him and Tom
• 17:11
  Baker, Tom Baker's just absolutely magical.
• 17:14
  He's got back twinkle in his eye, hasn't he?
• 17:17
  This is talking to Ronson and just the script in here, as
• 17:22
  well, because the bit where we're Onsen is, And there's you
• 17:27
  want his face where he realizes that they are in some green
• 17:31
  tint, but it's it just works because it works throughout
• 17:34
  because Dave Ross has said, there is no such thing as aliens
• 17:39
  Davos. I said, and established fact
• 17:40
  that in the seven galaxies, there's no other intelligent
• 17:44
  life. There was no such thing as
• 17:46
  aliens. What happens is once and sitting
• 17:49
  here, with an alien in front of them.
• 17:51
  And then Davos Wheels in, we are the Daleks in that bit.
• 17:55
  We've talked about the Dalek know.
• 17:57
  Realizes that the doctor and Harry are aliens and goes to
• 18:01
  destroy them in. Davos is world just changes.
• 18:05
  It is davros choose once in out for stopping them from killing
• 18:10
  aliens and it's almost as if we're aliens are real.
• 18:12
  Now it's just that fantastic. That's what but isn't it great
• 18:17
  you say it's what whole thing of dictators bending.
• 18:23
  You know the reality to build and in fact to their reality, no
• 18:28
  to their World Views in well. Actually I've said that in the
• 18:30
  past but now it is a real and you are the bad guy for not
• 18:33
  killing the aliens. It's like hung on what that's so
• 18:36
  good. I love the fact that you're
• 18:38
  theorize perception does change, but he's a scientist as well as
• 18:41
  he's hungry for the knowledge of what's out there and what
• 18:46
  happens in the future and those scenes are just electric.
• 18:50
  More than a say. This scene also is Electric
• 18:54
  motor is a dictator. Is the thing is because you know
• 18:58
  he yes he might have that scientific curiosity of.
• 19:01
  Oh well actually it is a real. I am wrong but you won't admit
• 19:04
  he's wrong and is overriding thought is to destroy them.
• 19:09
  Not it's Ronson. That wants to, you know,
• 19:14
  experiment on them, investigate them for that.
• 19:15
  It's not David of Ross wants to destroy first and foremost.
• 19:18
  He is a ruthless dictator before a fantastic scientists.
• 19:23
  Sorry. Yeah, talk to you don't know.
• 19:24
  The time you guys this story that there is so much to talk
• 19:34
  about. I do I think like will talk
• 19:38
  about Michael wish her a lot? I'm sure.
• 19:40
  Yes. This didn't have to work.
• 19:43
  This could have been agonizingly terrible.
• 19:46
  I've seen plenty of classic Doctor Who where the central
• 19:49
  villain has just misjudged that. You know, the The piece, you
• 19:54
  know, saw you. And I did nightmare of Eden and
• 19:56
  you get frisked in that. And, you know, it does JAR,
• 20:00
  whereas Michael wishes so committed to this role.
• 20:04
  Well, it's what we said. Everyone is so committed, that
• 20:06
  look from Tom as the gun is fitted, just tells you
• 20:10
  everything in a look. So I would have, I think this is
• 20:14
  one of my favorite scenes in all of Doctor, Who I think this is.
• 20:18
  This is Magnificent the way, his hand for a shake.
• 20:22
  Yes. Press the button is so well
• 20:25
  thought through, I would go to say that Michael Wisher.
• 20:28
  Gives I want to say the performance of the Classic
• 20:33
  Series in this It would be easy to argue that.
• 20:37
  I think about, we all know that, it's actually green crowd and
• 20:41
  followed by a world are in my opinion, and never went
• 20:54
  away. Absolutely terrified.
• 21:05
  Because he's done something that he shouldn't have done, and he
• 21:08
  knows. And what is this?
• 21:11
  You will be punished for. This is absolutely a Dalek
• 21:14
  voice. Absolutely.
• 21:15
  Yeah. I helped because wishes played
• 21:17
  Onyx before this. He was a Dalek and definitely.
• 21:19
  Yeah. But the thing about wish I moved
• 21:22
  back to find out whose hand is the Poise.
• 21:25
  You know, he is ramrod, straight in that chair.
• 21:27
  In his arm, is anyone listening movies?
• 21:30
  So when he's moving it, its shape but you've got that 90
• 21:33
  degree. It's off.
• 21:34
  He's not resting on anything. It's just hornet out in front of
• 21:36
  them. - I mean, you tried doing that, you know, and City.
• 21:40
  This literally his his face and his hands are the only parts of
• 21:46
  his body that you see move. Yeah.
• 21:48
  And as brilliant as Julian bleaches and Terry Malloy, is
• 21:53
  there to physical? Yeah, they're big.
• 21:57
  Well, I think Michael wishes doing a lot with his voice,
• 21:59
  isn't it? Yes.
• 22:00
  Like it's all voice. I mean they said that the face
• 22:04
  is completely hidden. It barely moves the hand.
• 22:07
  But like, I wonder if we've been spoiled by Sort of grotesque
• 22:11
  images in Doctor Who because his mask it is just horrific, isn't
• 22:17
  it? And the fact that he used to be
• 22:19
  a normal person. So what the fuck happened for
• 22:22
  him to have that scar advice and to have that thing in the back
• 22:25
  of his head which is holding his skull together?
• 22:29
  And in the mail just say I'm Steven Moffat you can fuck off.
• 22:33
  If you think that process got eyes underneath, it's burnt out,
• 22:39
  really? I'm really nervous.
• 22:41
  You can fuck off of, you're going to tell us how Dave Ross
• 22:44
  got burn, you know we don't want to know it's better in our
• 22:47
  imaginations. I think Steven Moffat you can
• 22:50
  fuck her. Oh no face is just Frozen.
• 22:56
  It's just Frozen, what's happened?
• 23:06
  It is, it's pretty interesting these things because you got the
• 23:09
  fall Captain who we've seen in part 1.
• 23:12
  Now, captured by the fault, I'm sorry.
• 23:14
  The car lid, Captain captured by the files and he's still
• 23:18
  absolutely defiant and absolutely on it.
• 23:21
  And he's not going to be defeated and he's still giving
• 23:23
  the dark the Khalid rhetoric. I think what you also get is is
• 23:29
  this is the thals now, the thals have come and captured Sarah in
• 23:33
  the It's feels very much like a graveyard but it's not as it's
• 23:37
  just like, yeah, yes, section of wasteland, his church for some
• 23:42
  reason but you know, the thals have come and done exactly what
• 23:44
  the college do. Mutual's all in the same.
• 23:49
  Yeah, these are supposed to be the good guys.
• 23:51
  These are the ones that will be rooting for and then there are
• 23:54
  no good guile. That's that all the really
• 23:56
  interesting thing. Even the goodish guys that we
• 24:00
  meet like Garmin, and, and Ron Johnson.
• 24:04
  Yeah, I'm not good guys because they've been part of this
• 24:07
  project and they've been pushed and pushed and pushed.
• 24:10
  And they've got this far. Yeah.
• 24:12
  And now their consciences are clicking in, but they, but they
• 24:17
  have been happy to go along with this and be with davros,
• 24:20
  although up to this point, say that most likable character is
• 24:24
  severing it is that and it's the only person who we see a better
• 24:28
  yet, behave. Sort of honorably throughout.
• 24:32
  Yeah, he's the one that's like, why does it all?
• 24:34
  Why do we always have to kill? What I did was after destroying
• 24:36
  something? That's not like bus and he
• 24:38
  supposed to be the mutated? Yep, I forgot on these scenes of
• 24:42
  with it with the rocket and the Gantry.
• 24:45
  My God, this is so well, showing a minute, isn't it?
• 24:48
  Yeah. Well that's the bit.
• 24:50
  I said I was going to point out which was pure 100% Robert
• 24:54
  Holmes. I'll go on which would let me
• 24:56
  just had it where your man, the Khalid man, sitting there
• 25:00
  talking about the distronic Explosives and, you know, the
• 25:04
  snow shield and they're on the way it's a we are going to be
• 25:07
  exposed and we will die of distronic toxemia.
• 25:10
  Hashtags that you know what? I thought when you said that
• 25:16
  there's clear Robert Holmes, I thought you were talking about
• 25:18
  the library says, no tea Harry. That's pure raw, bones as well.
• 25:22
  But that, that whole scene, it's not just obviously the language
• 25:26
  the, you know, the use of the word toxemia, but it's it's
• 25:30
  problems doing what you do is in just World building my giving
• 25:34
  you you know background information and just putting it
• 25:37
  out there as normal as normal as you know.
• 25:39
  No, it's distronic, you know, explosives, you know, what are
• 25:43
  those? No one knows, but you don't
• 25:44
  care. It's just offhand.
• 25:46
  You know the Raider mythology to kill you.
• 25:48
  Exactly. You don't need to know what it
• 25:50
  is. You know, it's bad.
• 25:50
  You know, it's a powerful explosive, you know, exposure.
• 25:52
  It's going to kill you. You know that the thals don't
• 25:55
  care about you Daria. It's just with just a few words.
• 25:59
  He builds background and depth in Ardsley has and that is
• 26:04
  genius of the man, isn't it? Don't think we should.
• 26:07
  Like, we have lauded Terry Nation, but I don't.
• 26:09
  We should under appreciate what Robert Holmes has brought this
• 26:13
  because all of the diet or pretty much all of the dialogue
• 26:16
  in. This is quotable and memorable
• 26:18
  and that I'm Terry Nation. He writes quite functional
• 26:22
  dialogue. Normally you go and watch
• 26:24
  planning this. All right - right pretty
• 26:27
  dialogue. Where as you know, there's
• 26:29
  there's extended dialogue scenes later on between davros and the
• 26:32
  doctor where the is pin-sharp that dialogue and that just
• 26:36
  think Terry Nation. it's it was a crisp oh Chet said, you know,
• 26:42
  there wasn't a line of Yvonne that You know, he didn't, right?
• 26:47
  Yeah. Well and again it goes back what
• 26:49
  you said then I start this would say, that's the job of a script
• 26:52
  at that. That's what makes a good script
• 26:54
  editor is. Yeah, there's like we've just
• 26:56
  had little pullback in this scene where Harry says, where
• 27:00
  the doctor says they're like a scientific community and Harry
• 27:04
  says LOL there like a sort of think tank so just that little
• 27:07
  call back to a few weeks back for the audience and that's
• 27:11
  sketches it in and that's sketches Harry in.
• 27:14
  There was an exchange earlier. We keep going back to B that
• 27:17
  happened earlier because we're talking abou for all these
• 27:20
  things. But there's an exchange anywhere
• 27:22
  because what is it? It's an accepted scientific
• 27:24
  facts that in the seven galaxies scar has only one to have
• 27:28
  intelligent life and then the doctors responses but it's an
• 27:30
  accepted scientific fact that there are more than seven
• 27:33
  galaxies and that's Robert Holmes and are like pure
• 27:36
  Robards. It's great.
• 27:39
  And you know in episode 1 I forgot to say one a really like
• 27:43
  smart idea which I I don't think goes anywhere but it's a lovely
• 27:46
  touch is the the mixture of old and new weapons.
• 27:51
  Yeah, that's a really lovely touch, political rock music.
• 27:55
  Yeah let's go back to the dialogue, do you know you've got
• 27:59
  one some they're springing that on how he from the cell and that
• 28:03
  is that functional. Termination dialogue bought
• 28:06
  sorry him to d.c. a run. Since I I'm James gobbets he is
• 28:10
  delivering it with such. Intensity and conviction in
• 28:17
  desperation almost that it's really just lifts it again.
• 28:21
  You know, it's I think the best dialogue in the world but if
• 28:25
  you're not going to have someone that's going to you know,
• 28:27
  deliver it the way it needs to be aside from Michael wishes
• 28:31
  performance, how the actors respond to davros It gives him
• 28:38
  like a sense of Gravitas and micrometers clearly terrified of
• 28:43
  him, isn't it before? Yeah, that's seen as a pointed
• 28:46
  out where he's defied davros and he's just standing to attention,
• 28:51
  but you can see him sort of shaking and his body.
• 28:54
  Like he's like yeah, Frozen to the spot because he can't, it's
• 28:59
  almost like he can't believe that he's done what he's done.
• 29:02
  I think he's convinced he's gonna die in that moment.
• 29:04
  Yeah. But they save it for later boys,
• 29:09
  at Great moment. Now, we have barely touched upon
• 29:19
  Elisabeth sladen, and Ian Malta. Okay, first of all, come on,
• 29:22
  just say that if there's one piece of Doctor Who clothing I
• 29:26
  would like to wear. Yeah, like to have my own
• 29:29
  version of a shorthand know I love this story.
• 29:37
  I would love some one to let me one of those, right?
• 29:41
  Anyone out there, Lucille, it's always super cool.
• 29:45
  Who's good with what you've got. Yeah, yeah.
• 30:05
  Well, I think Harry this. Because he's with the doctor a
• 30:09
  lot, but he doesn't do a lot. They'll see, their, their pet
• 30:14
  together for a lot of this story.
• 30:17
  I don't think I do. It's an interesting one because
• 30:23
  Need for the companions gets masses to do.
• 30:27
  But what they do get to do is really good.
• 30:31
  I think Sarah gets could because she's off on her own doing her
• 30:34
  own thing and she's down for like Jesus Christ a bit where
• 30:38
  she's on top of the rocket are is unforgettably laddle, isn't
• 30:42
  it? Yeah.
• 30:45
  I mean, Sarah got to be our second pair of eyes.
• 30:47
  So, you know, we got the doctor and how are you, you know, is
• 30:54
  one p will be set in the college dorm, Sarah then becomes our
• 30:59
  second pair of eyes. So we can see what's going on in
• 31:04
  the thoughts or we get sort of several tasks are as companion
• 31:07
  as it were. Because Sarah does get a lot of
• 31:08
  do, you know, Sarah gets to organize the breakout attempt to
• 31:12
  break a true. Yeah.
• 31:14
  She's about to do to you. Yes.
• 31:16
  But as we know, how he was brought in, because they thought
• 31:21
  a much older actor was going to be playing the doctor, than Tom.
• 31:24
  Big. I said, I thought we need a
• 31:26
  young strapping, man. They're called me in and do
• 31:28
  young, strapping manly things stop it.
• 31:32
  What they never expected was, it was for Tom Baker, Indian market
• 31:36
  completely fall in love with each other and they did.
• 31:39
  They love working together at all, three of them, and just
• 31:42
  beams of the screen. It does, but it does have that
• 31:46
  unfortunate side. Effect of making hurry a little
• 31:48
  bit redundant when he is paired with the donkey Dussel.
• 31:51
  You know if maybe yes. But I'm kind of glad he's paired
• 31:54
  with the doctor and it's not Sarah and the doctor together.
• 31:57
  Well yeah exactly. I don't need have heavy doing
• 32:00
  all of this. Where was it's much more effect.
• 32:02
  It's much more excited for this Laden, to get to do this.
• 32:05
  And because if you wouldn't want the female current at the be the
• 32:09
  spare part, because know, as we know, you know, Hinchcliffe.
• 32:12
  Yeah. Right is not a good one.
• 32:13
  If you are A female cow. Is it?
• 32:16
  That, you know, you know how you said that you wanted it Pacey?
• 32:20
  I need one of the more exciting. Yeah.
• 32:22
  Would you remember that sequence in planet Earth dies when
• 32:24
  they're going up the ventilation shaft in the hot air balloon and
• 32:27
  you know it's a bit ponderous and it takes a little while to
• 32:30
  get going. Well when she's going up against
• 32:32
  free in this it's Cup car is on film.
• 32:36
  It looks like it's come out of each film is terrific and you've
• 32:40
  got the alarm going off in the background, and you've got the
• 32:42
  bullets, and you've got the The scien for yeah, people screaming
• 32:47
  as therefore and the sound of the bodies funding to the floor.
• 32:51
  And I think the camera is not stop, it doesn't stop moving.
• 32:55
  It keeps following them up. Yes.
• 32:58
  And yeah. So like this you've got confused
• 33:00
  and shots where it's you just see her legs moving or whatever
• 33:03
  but it gives it a sense of dynamism and fuck.
• 33:07
  She's probably going up the same bit over and over again.
• 33:09
  I'm sure she is but I just think it's right under Cliffhanger.
• 33:12
  I remember when I first watched this cliff, I was desperate to
• 33:16
  see the next part. That's the alarm may be after,
• 33:21
  us didn't come on, you know, I had that LP.
• 33:27
  Sorry and so parts of the story are so ingrained in my head Oh,
• 33:33
  here we go. Yeah, let them shooting up and
• 33:35
  you just think, what, how the hell are they going to get out
• 33:37
  of this? Yeah, but they're going.
• 33:39
  And what's interesting is is the suspense doesn't end after the
• 33:44
  Cliffhanger, it carries all good.
• 33:47
  It's that Terry Nation thing of like constantly wanting to turn
• 33:50
  the page, you know, and she's terrified and she's tired and
• 33:55
  She's suffering from distronic looks easier all this bit.
• 34:00
  I found it. It's her are where the person
• 34:02
  helping her up? Sean.
• 34:04
  Yeah and it's the call that man, isn't it?
• 34:07
  It's the yeah from the first episode.
• 34:09
  Did you see that he lands on the floor?
• 34:11
  His face was in total shock. It was out.
• 34:13
  That's horrible. Come on.
• 34:15
  You must. Yeah.
• 34:17
  I can't move. She does Fear so well the phone.
• 34:21
  Yeah. She's a bit like Nicola Bryant.
• 34:23
  She's too good at it. It's very real wrongs.
• 34:27
  There's one of David Bologna's freeze-frame Cliffhangers.
• 34:30
  So my God I'm It box, it says to be fairly got it right, right?
• 34:43
  Yeah, another amazing episode, isn't it?
• 34:46
  I mean, we're going to say that every single one point there
• 34:51
  where I was like, oh God, where he went, oh, we're going to go
• 34:54
  out the ventilation shaft to get out of there and I thought, oh,
• 34:57
  we're back, interrogation territory now.
• 34:59
  And then, we did, we saw some weird crocodile ground across
• 35:01
  the street did, which is the top of it.
• 35:03
  Swartz going to sit the whole? Again, I swear we had a me.
• 35:05
  Yeah. And it was, is there even a poor
• 35:09
  Cliffhanger in this? I don't think there is.
• 35:14
  The electrocution one's a bit weird.
• 35:18
  I like just because of his performance he does on his
• 35:20
  makani. It is a weird one because I said
• 35:23
  that wasn't supposed to be the Cliffhanger, the Cliffhanger was
• 35:26
  supposed to be something dive or says You know, a little bit
• 35:31
  because the episode over Iran and they didn't want to cut
• 35:33
  anything from this episode from episode 3.
• 35:36
  The end of just dropping a cliffhanger mean.
• 35:40
  Well, fellows will be another Terry Nation cliche isn't just
• 35:43
  took a cliffhanger, in any way you want.
• 35:44
  And look at the floor, whose picture?
• 35:48
  We see how Sarah, Jane, possibly gets out of this one in episode
• 35:51
  3. She's doomed as she's falling,
• 35:54
  she's dead. Yeah, I really liked her as
• 35:57
  well. Well, we've always got hurry.