Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Graham Parker & Author Jay Nachman: The Story Behind 'Howlin' Wind' [Episode 331]

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Graham Parker & Author Jay Nachman: The Story Behind 'Howlin' Wind' [Episode 331] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

0:00
Speaker 1: The album considered a legacy defining work that bridge the
0:02
Speaker 1: gap between pub rock soul and the emerging punk rock scene.
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Speaker 1: It's the story behind the nineteen seventy six album by
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Speaker 1: Graham Parker, Holland Wind. We've got Graham Parker himself and
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Speaker 1: author Jay Nackman coming up next. I'm booked on Rock.
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Speaker 2: We're totally booked rock and roll.
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Speaker 3: I mean, I'll leave you. You're reading Little Hands This,
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Speaker 3: It's time to rock.
0:23
Speaker 1: And roll, roll out.
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Speaker 3: I totally booked.
0:32
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Booked on Rock. This is the podcast
0:34
Speaker 1: for those about to read and rock. I'm Eric Sanitch,
0:37
Speaker 1: very excited to talk to this episode's guests. We have
0:41
Speaker 1: legendary musician Graham Parker and the author of the brand
0:44
Speaker 1: new book titled Graham Parker's holand Wind, Jay Nackman. Guys,
0:49
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on the show.
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Speaker 3: Thanks for having us.
0:52
Speaker 2: Eric, my pleasure.
0:54
Speaker 1: Jay. You've been a Graham Parker fan for many years,
0:56
Speaker 1: so no need to ask you how thrilling it was
0:59
Speaker 1: to spend time with him to get his story put
1:01
Speaker 1: into the book. I'm just curious how did the two
1:03
Speaker 1: of you connect for this project.
1:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I had a now mostly defunct blaw and
1:11
Speaker 2: so I had done a couple stories with Raham. He
1:15
Speaker 2: might not have remembered me, but I was able to
1:18
Speaker 2: send them to him and say, hey, we've had these things.
1:20
Speaker 2: Would you beach in the book. And we also had
1:23
Speaker 2: some mutual associations. I'd gotten to know Brindsey Schwartz, a
1:27
Speaker 2: guitar player, and his former manager Dave Robinson. So I
1:31
Speaker 2: was sort of a little bit in his orbit. He
1:33
Speaker 2: knew I could write a little bit, and he readily agreed.
1:36
Speaker 3: To do it.
1:37
Speaker 1: To understand Graham the artist, it's to know his origins. Jay,
1:41
Speaker 1: you write quote Parker did what all great singer and
1:43
Speaker 1: songwriters do. While he was writing and singing about his life,
1:46
Speaker 1: he was singing about mine. Now this is something that
1:49
Speaker 1: an artist can't fake. There's the story in the book, Graham,
1:52
Speaker 1: when you played a gig in Surrey, England with Bob
1:55
Speaker 1: Dylan air Clapton and Joan Armitrading. Phonogram Records have helicoptered
2:01
Speaker 1: you in but you said, now I'm good. My parents
2:03
Speaker 1: lived ten miles away and you stayed with them, and
2:06
Speaker 1: you did the show talk about your early days, your childhood,
2:11
Speaker 1: your teen years, and how they formed you as a
2:12
Speaker 1: person in as an artist, the.
2:15
Speaker 3: Same thing as everybody else who was twelve years old.
2:17
Speaker 3: The Beatles and the Stones came along, and everybody else
2:19
Speaker 3: came along, and we had our own music. It wasn't
2:22
Speaker 3: Elvis Presley from my cousin's slightly older cousin's generation, or
2:27
Speaker 3: anything else, but I was exposed to all forms of
2:31
Speaker 3: music that were available in the fifties, I suppose when
2:36
Speaker 3: my parents had the big wooden transistor radio that had
2:40
Speaker 3: the drink's cabinet underneath it, and we would listen to
2:44
Speaker 3: a mixture of There was English novelty songs, but a
2:47
Speaker 3: lot of American stuff from Doris Day to Duke Ellington.
2:53
Speaker 3: Quite a bit of jazz influence there, which crept into
2:56
Speaker 3: my work from the first album. On the song Lady
3:01
Speaker 3: Doctor is a prime example of having that kind of
3:04
Speaker 3: understanding of the swing of jazz, and then of course
3:10
Speaker 3: R and B and rock and roll, which if it
3:12
Speaker 3: doesn't swing, it's just rock. So and that's every musician
3:20
Speaker 3: aged twelve I knew. Every kid picked up an instrument,
3:24
Speaker 3: decided we want to be like the Beatles or whatever
3:27
Speaker 3: it was, and that's what I did. I put a
3:30
Speaker 3: bunch of kids together and we dressed like the beetle
3:34
Speaker 3: about the haircuts. Managed to get Cuban heeled shoes somewhere.
3:40
Speaker 3: And I was living in the suburbs, really suburb country
3:44
Speaker 3: in Surrey, the County of Surrey, only thirty five miles
3:48
Speaker 3: south of London, where I was born and lived for
3:51
Speaker 3: four years. And I was one of those kids who couldn't.
3:58
Speaker 3: By the age of seven, I couldn't. I was getting
4:03
Speaker 3: claustrophobic in the suburbs of Britain. I needed more, so
4:06
Speaker 3: I left home, went to the island in Guernsey, and
4:09
Speaker 3: then a whole different crowd of people, more international, even
4:13
Speaker 3: though the island is only just between southern England and France,
4:19
Speaker 3: and much more French really. The names of the people
4:24
Speaker 3: there very French origin, but people came from all around
4:27
Speaker 3: Ireland America and worked there. You could easily get a job,
4:30
Speaker 3: and I got a job picking tomatoes, and then in
4:35
Speaker 3: a bakery and a few other bits and pieces, and
4:38
Speaker 3: it was quite idyllic really, And I was there when
4:41
Speaker 3: the psychedelic thing was going on, which I had missed
4:45
Speaker 3: in Britain, being slightly too young, I suppose, But it was
4:50
Speaker 3: all it was all going on in Guernsey, which is
4:52
Speaker 3: a weird thing really and a small place. You're going
4:55
Speaker 3: to be exposed to things like that if you're young.
4:58
Speaker 3: And the next crowd I was hanging out with were
5:01
Speaker 3: long haired psychedelic freaks and that was me. So it
5:06
Speaker 3: was that from such the Beatles. Wherever the Beatles and
5:09
Speaker 3: the Stones got their music from. We soon realized when
5:11
Speaker 3: I was a little kid was the blues, and it
5:14
Speaker 3: was black music in America. That's where it came from,
5:17
Speaker 3: and they were doing their own way of doing it.
5:19
Speaker 3: So that upbringing was very strong and me sold music
5:23
Speaker 3: and scar you know, when I was in my fifteen
5:27
Speaker 3: fifteen year old stage was really popular in sort of
5:30
Speaker 3: underground way, and I'd go dancing to that kind of music.
5:34
Speaker 3: It was sort of maddy boy music. We had a
5:36
Speaker 3: short hair and sort of clothes that went with it.
5:40
Speaker 3: I mean, most fashions we were exposed to, and that
5:43
Speaker 3: brought music with it.
5:45
Speaker 2: You know, There's one story that I thought I had.
5:50
Speaker 2: There are a few things Graham would tell me. Then I
5:52
Speaker 2: would do my research and I would say, oh, he
5:54
Speaker 2: did this in an interview in nineteen eighty one, or he
5:57
Speaker 2: said this in the interview in nineteen seventy six. But
5:59
Speaker 2: one thing I did find surprising and is that he
6:03
Speaker 2: said that on his parents' record cabinet, which is he
6:07
Speaker 2: spoke about, he would hear Danny Kaye's Inchworm and Bing Crosby,
6:12
Speaker 2: and he said something like I beg your pardon. I
6:14
Speaker 2: can't remember the exact quote, but those burrow into you
6:17
Speaker 2: in some way, and I thought that was surprising that
6:21
Speaker 2: that was an element of his musical background. One quick note, Graham,
6:26
Speaker 2: I never said this to you, but as I was
6:28
Speaker 2: also doing research, I read an interview with Nick Lowe
6:32
Speaker 2: and he also mentioned Danny Kaye's Inchworm. Yeah, so it
6:36
Speaker 2: was out there in the atmosphere. So that was interesting
6:38
Speaker 2: and surprising. But you know, it's interesting following Graham's evolution
6:41
Speaker 2: from those early soul music records he would get then
6:45
Speaker 2: you know, the Beatles and the Stones, and then as
6:47
Speaker 2: he said later on, it was psychedelic music and then
6:53
Speaker 2: singer songwriters, but also wedged in there he became a
6:55
Speaker 2: white blues fanatic for a bit. So he was picking
6:58
Speaker 2: up all these influences along the way, and they were
7:02
Speaker 2: absorbed and turned to his own thing. When he's ready
7:06
Speaker 2: to make his record.
7:06
Speaker 1: Bruce Springsteen talked about Graham's music and voice in the documentary.
7:10
Speaker 1: This quote is in the book. He said, well, Graham's
7:12
Speaker 1: music was always aggressive sounding because of his voice. He
7:15
Speaker 1: always had that caustic attitude which he balanced with tremendous
7:18
Speaker 1: soul and warmth. So it was a beautiful combination of things.
7:22
Speaker 1: Your vocal style. Otis Redding's influence on you as a
7:26
Speaker 1: vocalist is clear. What was it about him in particular
7:30
Speaker 1: that connected with you.
7:32
Speaker 3: Well, I'd heard him, I'm sure, on the radio, but
7:36
Speaker 3: very infrequently, and I couldn't have been more than fourteen
7:41
Speaker 3: when a cousin of mine was leaving and in those
7:43
Speaker 3: days they couldn't cram everything into the tiny little cars
7:47
Speaker 3: that they had when he was leaving the area with
7:49
Speaker 3: his parents, so he gave me some record or two.
7:52
Speaker 3: One of them was the Four Tops record, which had baby,
7:58
Speaker 3: I Need Your Loving and if you listen to that,
8:00
Speaker 3: I think it was their first album. It might have been.
8:03
Speaker 3: It's all very string, it's very lush string instruments. A
8:06
Speaker 3: lot of it was stunning in that way. But Otis
8:09
Speaker 3: reading was stunning in another way. This guy was kind
8:12
Speaker 3: of bleeding you know when he sang it was it
8:15
Speaker 3: was incredibly powerful. So I would sit in the front
8:18
Speaker 3: room and listen to these two records, and Otis were
8:22
Speaker 3: both of them. Motuses particularly would almost bring me the
8:25
Speaker 3: tears with the immense emotional that he could pack into
8:28
Speaker 3: a song, as well as having the chops to do it,
8:32
Speaker 3: you know, the vocal chops and I am pretty incredible.
8:35
Speaker 3: So and I think years later after I I was
8:41
Speaker 3: when I was starting to find my what became my
8:44
Speaker 3: actual style that got me my first record, deal with
8:47
Speaker 3: handling wind. That kind of came back in a way,
8:52
Speaker 3: the Levi Stubbs and Otis Redding way of projecting a
8:56
Speaker 3: song and doing it like your life depends on it,
9:02
Speaker 3: within great intensity. I mean, of course I couldn't sing
9:06
Speaker 3: like those guys who can, but that so they were
9:11
Speaker 3: inspiring back when I was a kid, and it was
9:14
Speaker 3: inspiring just just as my career was beginning. Those those
9:18
Speaker 3: kind of influences can come back at you when you
9:21
Speaker 3: least expect it, really, and it was also a way
9:24
Speaker 3: to start listening to those early soul records again and
9:28
Speaker 3: anything on that order, R and B and many other things.
9:32
Speaker 3: I was still listening to modern stuff as well. But
9:35
Speaker 3: that crept back into me and started to form quite
9:41
Speaker 3: an influence on what I was about to write, which
9:44
Speaker 3: was the songs that made Howling Wind and even Heat Treatment,
9:47
Speaker 3: and from then on, as I always point out, you know,
9:51
Speaker 3: it's when my first album came out, It's nineteen seventy six.
9:55
Speaker 3: Punk was a word in the back pages of the
9:58
Speaker 3: news of the music press. It was not really a thing,
10:03
Speaker 3: and everybody says, oh, it was all punk rock. No,
10:05
Speaker 3: it wasn't. Not when Howling Wind came out, not even
10:07
Speaker 3: when Heat Treatment came out my second album, which was
10:09
Speaker 3: the same year. It was buzzing around. It was buzzing,
10:13
Speaker 3: it was probably going to become a force, but nobody knew,
10:16
Speaker 3: and my attitude to sing, my singing was accidentally a
10:21
Speaker 3: bit like a you know, a preemptive strike on what
10:25
Speaker 3: was about to come without me knowing it. I just
10:28
Speaker 3: wanted to destroy prog rock and all the things i'd
10:31
Speaker 3: like two years ago, and the music I'd lay around
10:34
Speaker 3: listening and watching the chit ceiling change shape and affecting
10:39
Speaker 3: my life quite deeply. I wanted to destroy it now.
10:42
Speaker 3: And I think if you don't have that, you know,
10:44
Speaker 3: it's a good drive to have. It was a drive.
10:47
Speaker 3: It was like, yes, these you know in the suburbs there.
10:50
Speaker 3: When I went back after my traveling to Guernsey and Morocco,
10:54
Speaker 3: it was just like Robot City, you know, in the
10:56
Speaker 3: suburbs of Britain. They're only thirty five miles south of London.
11:00
Speaker 3: A good day for people was to go out the
11:03
Speaker 3: husband and the wife and wash their cars. That was
11:07
Speaker 3: quality time they spent together with sudsy water, it was.
11:11
Speaker 3: And there was this There was a soap opera I
11:14
Speaker 3: remember very well called a Crossroads Motel that came along
11:18
Speaker 3: before that. Of course it was a great Coronation Street,
11:21
Speaker 3: which was a very gritty thing at the time, but
11:23
Speaker 3: I was very young then. Everyone liked it. This Crossroads
11:26
Speaker 3: Hotel was the sort of morality tale of how you
11:28
Speaker 3: should be in the suburbs. And so it was interesting
11:32
Speaker 3: to have all these experience and experiences for me in
11:35
Speaker 3: these different countries, you know, and working in Gibraltar getting
11:38
Speaker 3: a job there and traveling and Linson living in France
11:43
Speaker 3: for a while until I got made my way to Morocco,
11:46
Speaker 3: which was I was about twenty about then twenty one,
11:49
Speaker 3: and it just so it was interesting to go back
11:53
Speaker 3: and live with my parents and get factory jobs, you know,
11:56
Speaker 3: because I had nothing else. So you know, I wasn't
11:58
Speaker 3: going to be a a musician, or was I I
12:03
Speaker 3: didn't know. I just kept writing and writing with every
12:06
Speaker 3: influence in me and throwing them away, throwing them away.
12:10
Speaker 3: And I'd watched this mot I'd watched this Crossroads Hotel
12:15
Speaker 3: even as my career had started, because it was tremendously inspiring.
12:19
Speaker 3: It may be particularly angry at the mentality of much
12:24
Speaker 3: of you know, sort of suburban, provincial Great Britain, and
12:32
Speaker 3: out there in the summers in nineteen seventy five and
12:35
Speaker 3: seventy six, people were just still discovering progressive rock. They
12:41
Speaker 3: were discovering genesis because they were all straights and went
12:44
Speaker 3: to work and stuff and yeah, so they grew their
12:47
Speaker 3: hair long. I mean it was also already a very
12:50
Speaker 3: terrible sign with you. When you see your uncle you
12:52
Speaker 3: haven't seen for years and he's got long hair or
12:55
Speaker 3: you know, and you know, flared pants, it's like, no, no,
12:59
Speaker 3: this to end. And I think that drove me very heavily.
13:03
Speaker 3: This must end, O case, straight trousers, short hair, angry,
13:08
Speaker 3: looked like you want to kill somebody on stage instead
13:11
Speaker 3: of Oh, Peace and love man twiddling around because the
13:15
Speaker 3: audiences we had me and the rumor in seventy six
13:17
Speaker 3: even into seventy seven would sit down on the floor
13:20
Speaker 3: cross legged. That was the exact thing I wanted to destroy,
13:24
Speaker 3: which I dubbed myself, you know, a year or two earlier,
13:27
Speaker 3: watching what we call tyrennus cerros Rex before they renamed
13:31
Speaker 3: themselves t Rex and started having pop singles that were
13:34
Speaker 3: much better than what they've been doing before. So it
13:39
Speaker 3: was that kind of attitude, and I don't think I
13:42
Speaker 3: was alone in that. When we saw what happened with
13:44
Speaker 3: punk with punk rock, I think a lot of those kids,
13:47
Speaker 3: who were mostly younger than me, were seeing the same
13:49
Speaker 3: thing and saying, we've got to destroy this. I think
13:51
Speaker 3: Johnny Rotten wore a T shirt on stage saying I
13:54
Speaker 3: hate Pink Floyd, and people hated him for that, hated him,
13:59
Speaker 3: and then they loved him week later because he'd reinvented
14:02
Speaker 3: the whole thing for them, you know. So that's a
14:05
Speaker 3: driving force to be like that. You know, this fashion
14:08
Speaker 3: is involved here, you know, and the fashion that doesn't
14:11
Speaker 3: mean dressing up like a clown or anything. It means
14:13
Speaker 3: it's in here somehow, as well as a clothing sense
14:17
Speaker 3: and a sartorial sense. Well.
14:19
Speaker 1: I loved reading about Peter Green and how much he
14:22
Speaker 1: influenced you as a guitarist because I could listen to
14:25
Speaker 1: Peter Green all day. I could put Albatross on repeat
14:28
Speaker 1: and listen to it all day. And what a beautiful tone.
14:31
Speaker 1: Tell us about when you first discovered him and how
14:33
Speaker 1: he influenced you as a guitarist.
14:36
Speaker 3: That was like before I went to Guernsey for a
14:41
Speaker 3: left home there, but it was a similar period nineteen
14:45
Speaker 3: sixty eight and sixty nine of the blues white blues
14:48
Speaker 3: bands were big, and I was hip to John Mayle
14:51
Speaker 3: early on because I had a friends who were slightly
14:55
Speaker 3: older who had blues records. You know, they knew their stuff.
14:58
Speaker 3: They knew the folk musicians of Britain and the blues
15:03
Speaker 3: musicians of America. It all intertwined that kind of thing,
15:07
Speaker 3: and Peter Green was someone I think he went through
15:09
Speaker 3: the John Mayle stable because he had Eric Clapton. I
15:12
Speaker 3: think there was Mick Taylor. I think Peter Green for
15:16
Speaker 3: a while. Peter Green was obviously a unique talent like
15:19
Speaker 3: those other guys. He just happened to hit me the
15:22
Speaker 3: hardest because what he played was sol music. What he
15:25
Speaker 3: sang was sole music. You know. The classic of that
15:29
Speaker 3: that says it all in one song is needs You
15:31
Speaker 3: Love So Bad? A song he didn't even write. The
15:34
Speaker 3: original version of it isn't very compelling, but Peter Green's
15:37
Speaker 3: version is ridiculous. And then they had this kid, Danny
15:40
Speaker 3: Kerwin who joined. He was seventeen at the time, and
15:43
Speaker 3: I went to see him and he just joined. Was
15:46
Speaker 3: like after they had their hit Albatross, but they booked
15:50
Speaker 3: already in a small club in my area, and I'd
15:53
Speaker 3: already had tickets and they had number one hit with Albatross,
15:56
Speaker 3: but they were still honoring this agreement to play in
15:59
Speaker 3: this time club called the gin Mill Club in Godalming
16:04
Speaker 3: in Surrey. And so there was this kid, Danny Kohen,
16:11
Speaker 3: every bit as good as Peter Green, but unfortunately, I
16:15
Speaker 3: think he went the wrong way and got a bit
16:18
Speaker 3: probably addicted to something or other, and he hated the fame,
16:22
Speaker 3: hated it, and I don't think Peter Green did too
16:24
Speaker 3: much either to be overwhelmed by. Suddenly they were having
16:28
Speaker 3: massive hits and they were worldwide, and Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac.
16:32
Speaker 3: Of course, the first album was a Fleetwood Mac album,
16:37
Speaker 3: and that was sixty eight and on a record label
16:40
Speaker 3: called Blue Horizon. Incidentally, a song of mineled Blue Horizon,
16:44
Speaker 3: This just sprung to mind is on a record of
16:47
Speaker 3: Minel Struck by Lightning, And if you listen to that song,
16:50
Speaker 3: I'm playing lead guitar on it. As I did a
16:53
Speaker 3: lot of a lot of albums. Then nineteen ninety one
16:55
Speaker 3: it came out and I'm ripping. I'm pulling from Peter
16:59
Speaker 3: Green all the man, I'm pulling all that stuff. I mean,
17:02
Speaker 3: I was never going to be a virtue of so
17:04
Speaker 3: I was never going to be good enough to be that.
17:06
Speaker 3: I had to be a singer songwriter. But when the
17:09
Speaker 3: red light comes on, I'm playing electric guitar. You know,
17:11
Speaker 3: some pretty good stuff comes out, and you might hear
17:16
Speaker 3: quite a bit of Peter Green's stuff in there with
17:19
Speaker 3: mix with a bit of Danny Kerwin in that very
17:21
Speaker 3: song in the league guitar playing.
17:25
Speaker 1: Jay, I'll throw this to you. There are some great
17:27
Speaker 1: stories in the book of those early days. One you
17:29
Speaker 1: mentioned Clapton Graham, the story where you're playing foosball with
17:33
Speaker 1: Eric Clapton and Jack Bruce pre Cream Days at a
17:36
Speaker 1: Cabin series before. Yeah, any stories, any Graham stories that
17:41
Speaker 1: stand up for you, Jay and Graham You could of
17:44
Speaker 1: course add your thoughts as well, but any good stories
17:47
Speaker 1: from those days that you want to share.
17:49
Speaker 2: Well, probably any good stories are in the book, you know.
17:54
Speaker 2: But it was just surprising as someone who's still I
17:58
Speaker 2: think the funny thing with Eric Clapton is because Graham
18:01
Speaker 2: wasn't so much into him. He you know, he's playing
18:03
Speaker 2: foosball with Eric Clapton, you know, and they were just
18:05
Speaker 2: guys down the block, you know, And I thought that
18:07
Speaker 2: was a little surprising. But then the flip side when
18:10
Speaker 2: he saw Peter Green, it was like, oh my god,
18:12
Speaker 2: I've just met God.
18:13
Speaker 3: You know.
18:14
Speaker 2: So it's kind of just funny to hear how Graham
18:24
Speaker 2: view these different artists. You know, some he was really into,
18:27
Speaker 2: some he's not. But all this sort of classic rock realm. Well,
18:31
Speaker 2: one funny thing, I was looking for somebody to be
18:35
Speaker 2: and you think everybody knows everybody in the in the
18:38
Speaker 2: music industry, and I was looking for somebody to speak
18:41
Speaker 2: about Peter Green's prowess as a guitarist. I ended up
18:46
Speaker 2: with Snowy White, who was terrific and I'm glad I
18:49
Speaker 2: spoke with him. But I said, you know, throwing names
18:52
Speaker 2: off of Graham. I said, I'm going to try and
18:53
Speaker 2: reach Peter Frampton and Graham said, never met him. A
18:56
Speaker 2: dame my life, you know. So I figured somewhere down
18:59
Speaker 2: the road he might have just crosspas. So it's just
19:02
Speaker 2: funny how you think, as I said, everybody in the
19:05
Speaker 2: music industry, particularly I guess in Britain news every maybe
19:08
Speaker 2: the case song construction.
19:10
Speaker 1: Graham, when when did that start for you? When did
19:13
Speaker 1: you start to realize, you know, I can write a song.
19:16
Speaker 1: How do you develop that style? It takes a long time, right.
19:20
Speaker 3: Well, it did for me. There are other people who
19:23
Speaker 3: are faster learners. But I mean I was twenty four
19:25
Speaker 3: when I got a record deal. That's kind of cutting
19:27
Speaker 3: it short, you know, be careful, and to me it
19:30
Speaker 3: was like unknown whether I would ever All I wanted
19:34
Speaker 3: to do was make one album. So if I could
19:36
Speaker 3: make that, that would be amazing. At least I could
19:39
Speaker 3: go down the pub and people say, didn't you make
19:41
Speaker 3: an album once? Graham? Yeah, I did. Actually, yeah that
19:44
Speaker 3: was pretty cool man. That was it the end, the end,
19:47
Speaker 3: you know, it didn't really matter.
19:50
Speaker 1: But the song Construction, James Taylor was an influence, right.
19:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, well they were all influenced from the Beatles. Look
19:56
Speaker 3: at the song Construction, They're incredible and all the stuff
20:00
Speaker 3: for it. You know that I heard pre that, But
20:04
Speaker 3: and the song the singer song has came along at
20:06
Speaker 3: the same time as I was being influenced by psychedelic
20:09
Speaker 3: more psychedelic kind of music, and there was James Taylor
20:14
Speaker 3: and people like that and Joni Mitchell, and they could
20:17
Speaker 3: do it and just on a guitar, you know, if
20:19
Speaker 3: they wanted to. They made albums with musicians and all that.
20:23
Speaker 3: But and that that helps a lot. It all helped,
20:27
Speaker 3: every single bit of it. I mean when the Beatles
20:29
Speaker 3: came along, I immediately wrote a song called Won't You
20:31
Speaker 3: Come Back? Complete with it. Oh, but I had every
20:35
Speaker 3: I was thirteen. You know. It was obviously an innate ability.
20:40
Speaker 3: There's an innate ability there. It wasn't something I invented.
20:45
Speaker 3: It's not something in learning college.
20:47
Speaker 2: You know.
20:48
Speaker 3: I'm sure you can learn a lot of useful things,
20:50
Speaker 3: but you know, they're just construction ideas. I suppose, so
20:55
Speaker 3: it before my career fell into place kind of myself
21:01
Speaker 3: as it were it would have been back to school days.
21:03
Speaker 3: It would have been sole shoes songs that were on
21:05
Speaker 3: the album. That's when I realized there's no turning back.
21:08
Speaker 3: I have to complete this now, I have to keep
21:11
Speaker 3: you gut writing in this kind of style and this
21:16
Speaker 3: were this is kind of intensity. Well, there's something about
21:18
Speaker 3: it that was compelling enough to me to think I've
21:22
Speaker 3: got the tools here. Now you know, I didn't use
21:25
Speaker 3: that language, but that's what it felt like, really.
21:27
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, let's get into some of the songs. Get
21:29
Speaker 1: let's get into the album. We have Graham Parker and
21:31
Speaker 1: Jay Nackman, the author of Ram Parker's Howl and Wind.
21:35
Speaker 1: The debut from nineteen seventy six features the musicians known
21:38
Speaker 1: as the Rumor, named after the song by the band.
21:42
Speaker 1: Thought that was interesting. I read that in the book. Jay, First,
21:44
Speaker 1: can you tell us about the history behind this lineup
21:48
Speaker 1: and how they teamed up with Graham? The accounts vary.
21:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's a big story. I guess I'll try
21:54
Speaker 2: and be as brief as possible, and Raham can certainly
21:57
Speaker 2: chime in, although he didn't actually meet them until he them,
22:00
Speaker 2: But look, there was Brinsley Schwartz and Bob Andrews, who
22:05
Speaker 2: were members of the band Brinsley Schwartz Band. And another
22:11
Speaker 2: funny quote from Graham in the book where He's which
22:14
Speaker 2: I thought was unique and original. Then I was again
22:17
Speaker 2: with those quotes where oh man, I read it in
22:19
Speaker 2: Melody Maker or something from back in the day where
22:21
Speaker 2: Graham says he thought Brinsley Schwartz was a heavy metal band. Him, yes,
22:30
Speaker 2: and so so Graham was not. I mean, that's another
22:32
Speaker 2: instant thing too, is that Graham was just wholly removed
22:35
Speaker 2: from that pub rock scene, holy removed. It was just
22:39
Speaker 2: not on his radar at all. He thought Bensey Schwartz
22:41
Speaker 2: was a heavy metal band, but they were sort of
22:42
Speaker 2: the kingpins, or one of the kingpins of the pub
22:45
Speaker 2: rock scene. And then you had Martin Belmont who was
22:49
Speaker 2: in Duck's Deluxe, another leading pub rock band. And then
22:54
Speaker 2: you had the rhythm section of Andrew Bodner and Steve Goulding.
22:58
Speaker 2: But I guess really the key to all that is
23:02
Speaker 2: Dave Robinson. Dave Robinson sort of is the keystone who
23:06
Speaker 2: sort of knew all these people and then began working
23:09
Speaker 2: with Graham and eventually managing him. So he put them
23:13
Speaker 2: all together I think that can really be laid at
23:15
Speaker 2: the feet of Dave Robinson.
23:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then there were some gigs, a few gigs
23:23
Speaker 1: that were performed before you start recording the album, which
23:25
Speaker 1: Graham that was important. Tell us about those early gigs
23:27
Speaker 1: leading up to the recording, about a handful of gigs.
23:31
Speaker 1: One show somewhere in the Sticks you played in front
23:34
Speaker 1: of three people and a dog. Other areas like London,
23:38
Speaker 1: people knew who Brinsley Schwartz was. It's a bigger crowd.
23:41
Speaker 1: But either way, that's where you guys gelled and became
23:44
Speaker 1: super tight.
23:45
Speaker 3: Well we you know, there's that recording that was on
23:49
Speaker 3: sale on Graham Parker dot net, the official website. Live
23:52
Speaker 3: at Newland's Tavern, which is possibly the first gig that
23:57
Speaker 3: me and Laruma ever did, or it was the Nag's
24:02
Speaker 3: Head in high Wick and I've always got them confused,
24:04
Speaker 3: but let's call it the Nags, the new Lanced have them.
24:07
Speaker 3: Where the owners allowed us to rehearse. They knew all
24:11
Speaker 3: the Brimsley people and all that stuff, and Dave Robinson.
24:14
Speaker 3: They allowed us to rehearse there for free. So that's
24:16
Speaker 3: where we got together as far as I know. That's
24:19
Speaker 3: when I met them all together, and it wasn't long
24:22
Speaker 3: before this tall fellow named Nick Lowe came down because
24:25
Speaker 3: Dave Robinson thought he's good, he'd be good as a producer.
24:29
Speaker 3: And that show that we did there, somebody had some
24:32
Speaker 3: crude tape recording device at the bar, and it's astonishing
24:37
Speaker 3: to me how good I was. That was my first
24:41
Speaker 3: show in front of a real audience in a place
24:44
Speaker 3: where you know, some of the legends have played over
24:49
Speaker 3: the over the years, I suppose, and some some you
24:51
Speaker 3: know artists who actually got paid to play. And we
24:56
Speaker 3: were good right then, so it didn't take long. It
24:59
Speaker 3: was instant all. Most so probably when we played the
25:02
Speaker 3: Three Men and a Dog we were really hot right then
25:05
Speaker 3: because that was after Newland's Tavern and we would go
25:08
Speaker 3: up to a club in Birmingham that they used to
25:10
Speaker 3: play called Barberellas. Another place I think it might have
25:13
Speaker 3: been Newcastle called the uh the Outlook which we called
25:18
Speaker 3: the Outlook Gloomy that was somewhere up north and we
25:24
Speaker 3: you know, people will come and sit on the floor
25:26
Speaker 3: across legged. That was it that some of the early
25:29
Speaker 3: gigs and scratch their heads. Why is the guitar solo
25:32
Speaker 3: only ten seconds long. You know, that's a bit baffling.
25:36
Speaker 3: Guitar sellos were supposed to be an hour long where's
25:38
Speaker 3: the drum solo? And here are we doing three and
25:41
Speaker 3: a half minute songs that with extreme aggression, And the
25:45
Speaker 3: audience was still like this is a bit confusing. But
25:48
Speaker 3: a few people came out there saying, that's what we've
25:50
Speaker 3: been waiting for. We like that. You know, so those
25:53
Speaker 3: early gigs you have to go through it to get
25:56
Speaker 3: to it. But we were pretty hot from the word go.
25:58
Speaker 3: I don't you know, we really worked from that first gig.
26:01
Speaker 1: So the confidence was there as you head into the
26:03
Speaker 1: studio to record this album.
26:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, in reality, I was scared out of
26:08
Speaker 3: my mind. I was, you know, very nervous. Get on stage.
26:13
Speaker 3: There's something called monitors. In fact in front of me,
26:16
Speaker 3: these monitor wedges, and I'm supposed to know how to
26:19
Speaker 3: ask for things to go into the monitors. My vocal
26:22
Speaker 3: oh you hear a bit of drums? I copied. I
26:24
Speaker 3: didn't know what I was doing, but on stage it
26:27
Speaker 3: was like I just became sort of a hurricane force quickly.
26:30
Speaker 3: And once I'd learned I could put my acoustic guitar
26:33
Speaker 3: down because no one could hear it anyway, and start
26:36
Speaker 3: strutting the stage around a bit and doing a bit
26:38
Speaker 3: of the Mick Jagger.
26:39
Speaker 2: You know.
26:40
Speaker 3: I became very, very confident. It was like I can
26:43
Speaker 3: own this thing. And so that started happening. Within about
26:46
Speaker 3: a year after how New Wing came out. In that year,
26:49
Speaker 3: it started happening that I could really start to think yeah,
26:53
Speaker 3: because we went to America very quickly in seventy six,
26:57
Speaker 3: not long after the album first album came out, and
27:00
Speaker 3: for heat treatment. I think twice we went in the
27:02
Speaker 3: back of the station wagon and I wasn't really you know,
27:07
Speaker 3: all I thought was, if they don't get it from
27:09
Speaker 3: hearing it, they're idiots, so why bother trying to make
27:11
Speaker 3: a show of it. And Dave criticized me, but he said,
27:14
Speaker 3: look at you know, look at these American bands. I said,
27:15
Speaker 3: they're all fake. We were opening for all these American bands,
27:19
Speaker 3: a lot of American and it was like, I said, yeah,
27:22
Speaker 3: I don't want to fake it. I just won't play.
27:24
Speaker 3: And then my guitar I think my guitar strap broke
27:27
Speaker 3: in one of those things that happened. Jay will know
27:30
Speaker 3: this from the story and the folk clubs, guitar straps
27:33
Speaker 3: that are badly attached with bits of rubble, bits of
27:37
Speaker 3: leather bootlace. It snapped at one of the gigs me
27:40
Speaker 3: in the rumor did, and so I just started poking
27:43
Speaker 3: at the air, Hey lord, don't ask me questions, instead
27:46
Speaker 3: of playing an acoustic guitar that nobody could hear. So
27:49
Speaker 3: that was I thought, Oh, here we go. Yeah, Dave's right,
27:52
Speaker 3: I need to make a show of this. Did showbiz? Man?
27:55
Speaker 3: It's not just singing the show bits, you know. And
27:57
Speaker 3: I cranked it up into overdrive from there.
28:01
Speaker 1: Jay, when did you first see Graham perform?
28:03
Speaker 2: The first time I think I saw him was here
28:06
Speaker 2: in Philadelphia where he opened up for Cheap Trick in
28:11
Speaker 2: a big arena, the Spectrum. And I was talking after
28:16
Speaker 2: the book with a friend of mine who was also
28:18
Speaker 2: at that show, and he said, I think the band
28:21
Speaker 2: Marillion was there as well, which I have no recollection
28:25
Speaker 2: of none whatsoever. So that might have been in seventy eight,
28:29
Speaker 2: seventy seven, I can't remember exactly. But then I grew
28:33
Speaker 2: up in I came to school here in Philadelphia, whether now,
28:36
Speaker 2: but I grew up in Virginia Beach and that summer was.
28:42
Speaker 2: I think it was seventy nine, might have been seventy eight.
28:46
Speaker 2: He played in a small club and they tore the
28:50
Speaker 2: roof off the place.
28:52
Speaker 3: I mean it was.
28:54
Speaker 2: Everybody was standing up in screaming. And I still have
28:58
Speaker 2: the review from the show, which I've shared with Graham.
29:01
Speaker 2: And I've said this before as well. I mean that
29:02
Speaker 2: summer everybody was touring in that same club. I saw
29:06
Speaker 2: Warren Zevon, I saw the Ramons. There were big arena shows.
29:10
Speaker 2: I think CSN and the Graham Park of the Rumor
29:14
Speaker 2: were as good as any of them, if not better.
29:18
Speaker 2: I mean, they were just at their peak, you know,
29:22
Speaker 2: they were. Martin Belmont has said that as well. He
29:24
Speaker 2: would say he says something like there was in that
29:26
Speaker 2: period there's no band better than us live. And I
29:30
Speaker 2: believe it because I saw it.
29:32
Speaker 1: Was there concern Graham going into the studio then that
29:35
Speaker 1: that you were able to translate that energy into the
29:37
Speaker 1: studio when you first went in to do Holland Wind.
29:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, I by then I thought, Wow, I got a
29:43
Speaker 3: record deal just like that. I've got this amazing crap
29:47
Speaker 3: band in behind me who know how to play my work.
29:51
Speaker 3: They've been around the block so much and played so
29:54
Speaker 3: many styles in that in that their professions, they were
29:59
Speaker 3: professionals already. All these bands have broken up, like The Ducks,
30:03
Speaker 3: De Luxe and Britsy Schwartz and other bands that were
30:07
Speaker 3: called pub rock. They seem to have all kind of
30:09
Speaker 3: floundered a bit because they'd done enough of it and
30:11
Speaker 3: it was like time for you know, seeing if something
30:15
Speaker 3: new came along. And it turned out for them that
30:17
Speaker 3: I popped out of dropped out of the sky from nowhere,
30:21
Speaker 3: from the suburbs, you know. And so in the studio,
30:28
Speaker 3: I wasn't really intimidated. You know, there was nerves. There's
30:30
Speaker 3: always nerves. I mean, he was going to think, what
30:32
Speaker 3: if I screw up? What if I'm an idiot? But
30:35
Speaker 3: it was it didn't bother me. I just went in headfirst.
30:42
Speaker 1: You defend n Nick Lowe produced the album. He was criticized.
30:46
Speaker 1: Some would say he was just bashing out songs in
30:48
Speaker 1: the studio, But you say his contributions have at times
30:51
Speaker 1: been undervalued.
30:53
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I thought he was excellent producing my work, fantastic,
30:59
Speaker 3: and he went want to produce quite a bunch, a
31:02
Speaker 3: whole bunch of other stuff. And I didn't understand his songs.
31:06
Speaker 3: Then I didn't think anything of them because I mean,
31:08
Speaker 3: I'd never heard any of this stuff. And I had
31:11
Speaker 3: a record deal, so I get a free Brinsley Schwartz
31:13
Speaker 3: album from and you know, so I hear these things,
31:17
Speaker 3: and I really didn't think, how does this relate to me?
31:19
Speaker 3: I don't know, but when these guys play, it relates
31:22
Speaker 3: to me somehow or another. They can transpose themselves into
31:26
Speaker 3: being backing musicians for me brilliantly. And so I think Nick,
31:33
Speaker 3: you know, he's the man who gets the atmosphere like
31:35
Speaker 3: this is fun. Guys, come on, you know I can
31:37
Speaker 3: and you can do but gone another take, another take?
31:40
Speaker 3: Come on? That was almost there, almost there. But we
31:43
Speaker 3: didn't do many takes because that was the idea. Don't
31:46
Speaker 3: do too many takes. It always gets worse, you know,
31:49
Speaker 3: with actual rock and roll, it always gets worse. If
31:52
Speaker 3: you can get the first take, you've got something, You've
31:54
Speaker 3: really got something. Otherwise, if it's the third or fourth,
31:57
Speaker 3: that's all right as well. That's pretty great. But I
32:00
Speaker 3: think he captured a sound. I think his ability with
32:03
Speaker 3: along with the guy who came with the studio engineer,
32:07
Speaker 3: to get a sound that feels sometimes on a big state.
32:11
Speaker 3: On a good stereo, it feels like you're a bit.
32:12
Speaker 1: In the room with us exactly.
32:15
Speaker 3: You know, on a small speakers it doesn't feel like
32:17
Speaker 3: that so much. But that was there, and I don't
32:20
Speaker 3: think i'd hardly ever reproduce that with any record.
32:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the first thing. First thing I thought of
32:26
Speaker 1: hitting play on that opening track, which is my favorite.
32:30
Speaker 1: I love White Honey, and that's you feel like you're
32:33
Speaker 1: in the room, you feel like you're in a club
32:34
Speaker 1: watching the band perform.
32:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, he captured that really well. It was that spa
32:41
Speaker 3: bit of spaciousness there, you know that you get now
32:43
Speaker 3: and again in some of those records, especially when they
32:45
Speaker 3: were on vinyl. As I think about digital now, all
32:49
Speaker 3: bands and acts and singers, they may we may all
32:53
Speaker 3: sound different, but but digital makes it all feel the same.
32:57
Speaker 3: My specific word for that is it all feels the
33:00
Speaker 3: same now it's not vinyl straight to a record a turntable.
33:06
Speaker 3: Having said that, I never listened to vinyl. Really, I've
33:09
Speaker 3: got get I've got vinyl records that I get all
33:12
Speaker 3: the time, but really listen because I don't. I don't
33:15
Speaker 3: have that set up really, So guilty is charged. But
33:20
Speaker 3: that's you know, that's where we come to. That's okay,
33:22
Speaker 3: it's you've got to progress. Everything goes forward. I'm not
33:25
Speaker 3: a lud eite. I'm not a luddites. Really. I would
33:28
Speaker 3: prefer not to get Spotify fees, but that's rate. But
33:31
Speaker 3: that's the way that goes. But the actual idea of
33:35
Speaker 3: it being streamed, that's what. That's the way it was.
33:37
Speaker 3: I embraced cassettes when they came along because you could
33:40
Speaker 3: put them in on you in your car, you know.
33:42
Speaker 3: I had a little machine and I stick them on
33:44
Speaker 3: and have them on the seat next to me or
33:45
Speaker 3: on the back seat and playing stuff. So I embraced
33:48
Speaker 3: it all. But the feel of things was definitely different
33:52
Speaker 3: when it was made for vinyl and it was on
33:54
Speaker 3: vinyl and there was nothing else, you know, so that
33:57
Speaker 3: Hallingman benefited from that.
33:59
Speaker 2: I think it's important to add. You know, we talked
34:01
Speaker 2: about the energy ram and the rumor brought to that
34:05
Speaker 2: first album, but let's not neglect the ballads. I mean,
34:08
Speaker 2: you're not going to get any finer singing then on
34:11
Speaker 2: between you and Me or Gypsy Blood, So you know,
34:14
Speaker 2: there was that balance between the energetic, hardcore rocking stuff
34:19
Speaker 2: and then the really deeply emotional ballads.
34:21
Speaker 1: Absolutely, well, let's get into the tracks. The book gets
34:24
Speaker 1: into all of the tracks, and people should go out
34:26
Speaker 1: and buy the book for that, and of course the
34:28
Speaker 1: story that leads up to the album. But just going
34:30
Speaker 1: to pick out two or three here. The track listing
34:33
Speaker 1: was put together by Graham and Nick. The twelve tracks
34:36
Speaker 1: are white Honey, Nothing's going to pull us apart, silly Thing, Gypsy, Blood,
34:40
Speaker 1: between You and Me, back to school Days, soul Shoes,
34:43
Speaker 1: Lady Doctor, You've got to be kidding Holland win track
34:47
Speaker 1: not if it pleases me, and don't ask me questions
34:51
Speaker 1: the album title you came up with, Graham, and I
34:53
Speaker 1: want to ask you about the title track. The opening lyrics,
34:56
Speaker 1: the waterfalls trinkling like bells to my ears, the earth
34:59
Speaker 1: rolls out for me through smiles and tears, a country lost,
35:02
Speaker 1: a soul discovered, the ruin that I once was will
35:06
Speaker 1: soon be covered. That song, you say is about your reinvention.
35:10
Speaker 1: Tell us the story behind this one. The music just
35:13
Speaker 1: came to you in a moment of great inspiration.
35:17
Speaker 3: Actually, hearing that sounds like I was tripping balls.
35:22
Speaker 1: It's brilliant. By the way, I don't embarrass you.
35:25
Speaker 3: But it's quite trippy that, yeah, I was. Yeah, it's
35:29
Speaker 3: a reinvention. I think, the constant reinvention of people when
35:33
Speaker 3: they're young and you know, maybe talented in some artistic
35:38
Speaker 3: respect or any respect. That it's different from accepting what
35:44
Speaker 3: your life was supposed to be. You know, from me
35:47
Speaker 3: as again, working class education, the class system education of
35:53
Speaker 3: Britain was where I come from. Howling Wind destroys that
35:58
Speaker 3: you know in that song right there is reinvent yourself.
36:02
Speaker 3: If you've got the if you've got what it takes
36:04
Speaker 3: to do that, it's there waiting for you until you
36:08
Speaker 3: find a sort of stronger version of you. And for me,
36:12
Speaker 3: it had to be music that did that. For other
36:14
Speaker 3: people it would be totally totally different things. It doesn't matter.
36:19
Speaker 3: And that's you know, you can do that when you're
36:22
Speaker 3: very young. It's harder to do that when you're above thirty,
36:25
Speaker 3: to reinvent yourself, you know, let's be honest, and to
36:28
Speaker 3: write even songs that have the same synaptic kaboom to them,
36:33
Speaker 3: you know, that's a young person's game for the most part.
36:38
Speaker 3: So I guess that's what it felt like I did.
36:40
Speaker 3: I was not going to buckle and be what I
36:43
Speaker 3: was supposed to be according to my education, according to
36:47
Speaker 3: anybody around me. And I think it's not nothing original.
36:52
Speaker 3: I'm stating here, it's youthful rebellion, almost against what you are.
37:00
Speaker 3: What have I been stuck with here? And I could
37:02
Speaker 3: end up like this for the rest of my life, man,
37:04
Speaker 3: you know. So Howling Win definitely illustrates that strongly to me,
37:09
Speaker 3: and it became the album title perhaps because of that,
37:13
Speaker 3: but also it sort of reminding me of Howling Wolf
37:16
Speaker 3: or something. I went back to the Blues roots of
37:18
Speaker 3: it all. It sounded like that, you know. I mean,
37:22
Speaker 3: there's a talk about a character of powerful presence. Howling
37:26
Speaker 3: Wolf are unbelievable. So yeah, I took a bit cheeky
37:29
Speaker 3: I suppose calling it Howling Wynn, But there you go.
37:32
Speaker 1: I love the swirling Organs.
37:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's got the Leslie thing going, the spinning, the
37:40
Speaker 3: old spinning thing, and the Leslie Man. Fantastic.
37:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bobby Andrews, Yeah, yeah, Well I told you my
37:46
Speaker 1: favorite track is White Honey. And it's a tough call because,
37:51
Speaker 1: like Springsteen says, every cuta of spectacular talk about this
37:55
Speaker 1: one White Honey. There's some van Morrison influence in there,
37:59
Speaker 1: but also the tin pain in Ali songs like Shuffle
38:01
Speaker 1: Off to Buffalo.
38:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I had that. I had an album
38:05
Speaker 3: of all those Hollywood songs. I'd watched these films, Black
38:07
Speaker 3: and White, Hooray for Harleywood and all this stuff. Busby Berkeley,
38:11
Speaker 3: and it coincided with some of the Van Morrison albums
38:15
Speaker 3: post them, of course, you know, Tupelo Honey and Hard
38:20
Speaker 3: Nose the Highway. It coincided with that. It was, and
38:23
Speaker 3: it took me back to what I've probably heard on radio.
38:26
Speaker 3: I probably heard some of those Busby Berkeley songs, Harry
38:30
Speaker 3: Warren and Al Ruben, those writers that Jay researched very
38:33
Speaker 3: well and found out well the sheer body of work
38:37
Speaker 3: that those guys used to produce. And I was really
38:40
Speaker 3: into that as I was writing, and outcomes White Honey.
38:45
Speaker 3: So I go, okay, there's the Van in there for sure,
38:48
Speaker 3: which everybody is going to shout Van rip off. You
38:50
Speaker 3: know they're going to do that, no question. But there's
38:52
Speaker 3: there's a lot more going on in that swing than that.
38:57
Speaker 3: There's also something that nobody has ever spotted, you know,
39:00
Speaker 3: and I have. I have said it a few times.
39:02
Speaker 3: I've actually illustrated it on stage playing the song slow solo.
39:06
Speaker 3: It's one of the main influences the Young Rascals. Oh yeah,
39:13
Speaker 3: you'd never hear that unless you know the melody the
39:16
Speaker 3: Young Rascals Groovy on a Sunday afternoon, White Honey, get
39:21
Speaker 3: it from your canny man.
39:22
Speaker 1: Wow, A real steal.
39:24
Speaker 3: But I didn't know it when I wrote. I thought
39:26
Speaker 3: I was just doing Van, you know, and then I realized, no,
39:29
Speaker 3: it's much more than that. And it's also it's a bit.
39:32
Speaker 3: It's the Young Rascals, it's that melody.
39:35
Speaker 1: But that's cool though. You take all those influences, but
39:37
Speaker 1: then it becomes your own.
39:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, you repurpose it. And there's no doubting who it is.
39:41
Speaker 3: It's a bloke named Graham Parker whoever he is. He's
39:44
Speaker 3: this new guy. But it's okay, I get it. It sounds
39:46
Speaker 3: like him.
39:47
Speaker 1: That's just you know, if I'm throwing a party, that's
39:49
Speaker 1: the song I'm starting with. That that's going to get
39:51
Speaker 1: everybody up. All right, Jay, let's let's throw it to you. Jay,
39:55
Speaker 1: you'r a favorite track for you, and then Graham can
39:58
Speaker 1: maybe you share a story behind that track? What's your favorite.
40:01
Speaker 2: Jay, that's so tough, but it might be between you
40:09
Speaker 2: and me. Let me add some people maybe able to
40:13
Speaker 2: relate to this. If my memories right. There's certain artists
40:17
Speaker 2: you chase because you want to hear them do certain
40:19
Speaker 2: songs live. And I think I finally got to hear
40:22
Speaker 2: Between you and Me live Graham at the Teen Angel.
40:25
Speaker 2: I know you played a lot here in Philadelphia. Yeah,
40:27
Speaker 2: but I think you might have done a reggae version.
40:29
Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure did you ever? So it's like, no, no, no,
40:32
Speaker 2: give me the original. But that said, I just think
40:38
Speaker 2: the vocals on that are so evocative and it's kind
40:42
Speaker 2: of an unrequired, unrequited love kind of story that I
40:46
Speaker 2: could relate to at that time, so that you know,
40:49
Speaker 2: asked me another day it might be you know, halliwind
40:52
Speaker 2: or don't ask me questions, but right now it's between
40:54
Speaker 2: you and me.
40:55
Speaker 1: Graham. Story behind that song.
40:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, not based on anything specific, but based on experience
41:01
Speaker 3: of being dissed and you know this kind of thing,
41:05
Speaker 3: the male female thing of but I didn't put any
41:10
Speaker 3: nastiness into it. Strangely, it was pretty sweet, the whole thing.
41:14
Speaker 3: And I said to Jay, I think that all I
41:17
Speaker 3: knew were the lads in the harbor. It reminded me
41:20
Speaker 3: of Otis seeing the dark of the bay. I make
41:24
Speaker 3: this dock something about the atmosphere of him sitting by
41:27
Speaker 3: the dock of the bay and you know whatever, maybe
41:32
Speaker 3: something romantic in there, something romantic about was sitting at
41:36
Speaker 3: the dock of the bay. In fact, I could have
41:38
Speaker 3: been I was working on the docks in Gibraltar many
41:40
Speaker 3: years before. Maybe a bit of that atmosphere came through
41:44
Speaker 3: to me, or any docks sitting there and the waves
41:47
Speaker 3: and you know, the quiet of the boats or something.
41:50
Speaker 3: I think that's as important as anything that might be
41:54
Speaker 3: real or might not be real. About the lyrics. It's
41:57
Speaker 3: being evocative with lyrics and I thought that was immediately
42:02
Speaker 3: evocative as soon as I started writing that. I do
42:05
Speaker 3: remember that much. And it's very singer songwriter. The song
42:10
Speaker 3: is totally it's you know, not any of these pub rock,
42:14
Speaker 3: punk rock, new wave. It's a singer songwriter song. The
42:18
Speaker 3: reason I've been doing it reggae for quite some years, Jay,
42:21
Speaker 3: is because it just feels good to me. I sort
42:25
Speaker 3: of prefer it. And now, because of a few hand
42:28
Speaker 3: problems of being you know, ancient, you know these things happen,
42:33
Speaker 3: and from playing guitar with terrible technique for most of
42:36
Speaker 3: my life, it's easier to play reggae on electric guitar.
42:40
Speaker 3: So that's maybe you won't hear it again the way
42:43
Speaker 3: it should be. I understand.
42:46
Speaker 1: Grim Is there a song you're most proud of? Is it?
42:49
Speaker 1: Would it be the title track from this album?
42:51
Speaker 3: I think, between you and me, I'll be as proud
42:53
Speaker 3: of that as anything. But I'm proud of the entire
42:56
Speaker 3: album in a way. I mean, I can't help it,
42:58
Speaker 3: but because it's my first album, and you know, i'd
43:02
Speaker 3: never a lot of artists would be just disregarded. But no,
43:06
Speaker 3: I was good enough right then. I didn't. I'm not
43:08
Speaker 3: going to disregard it was. It was a fantastic first record.
43:11
Speaker 1: Really, Yeah, to be that good right out of the gate.
43:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why. Yeah, there it was. I thought it
43:17
Speaker 3: was always a good thing to not go off sort
43:21
Speaker 3: of half with a gun half loaded. You know. I
43:23
Speaker 3: started to gather that feelings. No, keep writing, keep writing,
43:26
Speaker 3: not good enough, even though I could have missed the
43:29
Speaker 3: train by being a bit old. You know, by the
43:31
Speaker 3: time I got the deal.
43:34
Speaker 1: Were you at that time?
43:35
Speaker 3: I was twenty four. I think, yeah, it was like
43:38
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy five and I was not twenty five until November,
43:43
Speaker 3: and we were already a band. Then I had a
43:45
Speaker 3: record deal and all that stuff. As far as my
43:47
Speaker 3: timeline goes, I think Jay Will will agree with that
43:52
Speaker 3: timeline because we all had to put our heads together
43:54
Speaker 3: and think hard, and no one was taking notes back then.
43:57
Speaker 3: But yeah, so that's you. You know, George Harrison, what
44:03
Speaker 3: was he seventeen? You know, their talent came a lot
44:08
Speaker 3: stronger than mine did at a very young age, but
44:10
Speaker 3: mine just helped. It had to go through a lot
44:13
Speaker 3: of stuff.
44:14
Speaker 1: That's always an interesting story though, that when an artist hits,
44:17
Speaker 1: you know, some of them are later. I think Sting
44:21
Speaker 1: was maybe in his late twenties and you know when
44:23
Speaker 1: the police took on. I mean that's always interesting. But Graham,
44:26
Speaker 1: you mentioned Peter Green and having trouble with fame. How
44:29
Speaker 1: did you feel about the praise that the album received
44:31
Speaker 1: from the fans from the critics like Real Marcus, was
44:35
Speaker 1: that all good or was it a little bit like WHOA,
44:37
Speaker 1: this is putting a lot of pressure on me here?
44:41
Speaker 3: I thought it was. I expected it. I expected people
44:43
Speaker 3: like Real Markers, who I didn't really know much about,
44:47
Speaker 3: if anything, but I realized, oh, this is one of
44:49
Speaker 3: the top guys. He's actually on tour with us. He
44:52
Speaker 3: thinks that much of it. I thought they would get it.
44:55
Speaker 3: I actually thought that the critics would get it. The
44:57
Speaker 3: public probably won't. And as far as the American public
45:00
Speaker 3: were concerned, it wasn't going to get played on radio
45:02
Speaker 3: to any extent. There wasn't, you know, thousands of tiny
45:07
Speaker 3: stations that people had in their own house. Then there
45:09
Speaker 3: was there was the college radio, and I'd find myself
45:12
Speaker 3: at the you know some of those places late at night,
45:15
Speaker 3: talking to the DJs and you know, drinking and stuff,
45:19
Speaker 3: and they were playing what they wanted. But most of
45:22
Speaker 3: America was pretty buttoned up with what became known as
45:25
Speaker 3: corporate rock, you know. So I didn't think it was
45:29
Speaker 3: going to be an easy sell at all, but didn't
45:32
Speaker 3: worry me one bit. Man. There I was out on
45:34
Speaker 3: the road. I did become overwhelmed with my modest amount
45:41
Speaker 3: of fame, and I thought it would be pretty awful
45:43
Speaker 3: to be really famous. I just thought that would be awful.
45:47
Speaker 3: Not that I didn't try to write hit songs or anything.
45:50
Speaker 3: I always thought they were catchy. I was just always
45:53
Speaker 3: I was just writing songs, and I always thought they
45:55
Speaker 3: had a lot going for them in that respect, but
46:00
Speaker 3: it was, Yeah, I just wanted to duck out of
46:03
Speaker 3: all the attention. A lot of the times I do
46:06
Speaker 3: a gig in London, like two thousand people and just
46:10
Speaker 3: sneak out the back door with you know, my girlfriend
46:12
Speaker 3: at the time, or drive back to my parents in
46:14
Speaker 3: the night and crash there because it was overwhelming, all
46:17
Speaker 3: this flood of information, all these people who want to
46:21
Speaker 3: know you and stuff, and very modest fame. But you know,
46:24
Speaker 3: it's much more than you kind of think it is.
46:26
Speaker 3: When you're at a low level like we were, that
46:29
Speaker 3: kind of mid level playing the playing the two thousand
46:32
Speaker 3: and three thousand theaters and doing three nights, it's a
46:35
Speaker 3: certain amount of Graham Cam Graham, we want you, we
46:38
Speaker 3: want to come here, Graham go. Yeah, I love you Graham.
46:41
Speaker 3: It's like, God, damn it. You know, yeah, I didn't
46:44
Speaker 3: really ask for that.
46:46
Speaker 1: But when did you become comfortable with that, or when
46:48
Speaker 1: did you realize, Okay, I can handle this. It is
46:51
Speaker 1: what it is. It's not going to change.
46:55
Speaker 3: Stopped. I think when it slowed down and I got
46:57
Speaker 3: to the point of my career where I was a
46:59
Speaker 3: known a figure. I wasn't going to suddenly be gonna
47:03
Speaker 3: come a superstar. But still there was too much. It
47:06
Speaker 3: was still too much. It's better now. It was better
47:09
Speaker 3: when I was, you know, in the nineties and two thousands,
47:12
Speaker 3: just playing small gigs around the USA and to some
47:16
Speaker 3: extent Britain and going to Sweden and Europe doing solo
47:20
Speaker 3: gigs or with a backing band out out in the
47:23
Speaker 3: middle of nowhere wherever I was. It seems it's much
47:26
Speaker 3: more enjoyable and down to earth.
47:30
Speaker 1: Hey guys, we'll get back to the show, but first
47:32
Speaker 1: I want to tell you about an exclusive deal for
47:34
Speaker 1: Booked on Rock. Listeners get fifteen percent off any purchase
47:37
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47:55
Speaker 1: Booked on Rock. Also find a link in this episode
47:58
Speaker 1: show notes, or just go to bookd Rock dot com
48:00
Speaker 1: and click on my deals. I was telling my friend
48:04
Speaker 1: I was going to be interviewing you, and she goes,
48:06
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is forty That was the first
48:09
Speaker 1: thing she said, So what did that do for? What
48:12
Speaker 1: was that experience? So how did that all come about?
48:14
Speaker 1: By the way, But then also you know that that
48:16
Speaker 1: got you some notice people recognize you, right, well, yeah,
48:19
Speaker 1: it got.
48:20
Speaker 3: It was a really good career bump or life bump.
48:23
Speaker 3: Really it was like have my first album, right, you know,
48:26
Speaker 3: it was a bit like that. This was like, wow,
48:28
Speaker 3: this excitement is amazing. Man.
48:30
Speaker 1: Great movie by the way, for those who may not know,
48:34
Speaker 1: Graham is in.
48:35
Speaker 3: That, John Apatow and you know Paul Rod Yes, oh man,
48:42
Speaker 3: it was. It was unbelievable. I just reformed the rumor
48:45
Speaker 3: by accident, and they were going to Okay, they all
48:50
Speaker 3: agreed they were going to come to the USA. I
48:52
Speaker 3: wanted to do it there in a studio I had
48:53
Speaker 3: worked out Struck by Lightning being one of the records,
48:56
Speaker 3: and quite quite a few others. I wanted to do
48:59
Speaker 3: the first three union album there. And within a week
49:02
Speaker 3: or two of doing that, John Appersol got a hold
49:04
Speaker 3: of my new publishing company and they said he wants
49:07
Speaker 3: to talk to you. I said, well, come on, give
49:09
Speaker 3: me okay email and I said, I'll meet you anywhere.
49:12
Speaker 3: Judd and because he used Love Gets You Twisted in
49:17
Speaker 3: one of his shows, it's called Undeclared. Fantastic show actually,
49:22
Speaker 3: along with Freaks and Geeks, TV shows that never made
49:25
Speaker 3: it big because they were too good and TV networks
49:28
Speaker 3: didn't really regret. Yeah, there were great shows and I
49:31
Speaker 3: missed them entirely until my song had been used, and
49:34
Speaker 3: then I discovered Freaks and Geeks. I think it came
49:36
Speaker 3: before Undeclared. And so Judd is a big fan of
49:42
Speaker 3: lots of artists. I mean, I'm just one of the many.
49:45
Speaker 3: But he saw the potential of me acting this guy
49:48
Speaker 3: who destroys the record company by dint of his spectacular unpopularity.
49:55
Speaker 3: And he's like, in my sixties, it was the record
49:58
Speaker 3: company filtered record. Paul Rudd's record label has also signed
50:04
Speaker 3: hair Cut one hundred apparently, and you know, uh, Frank
50:09
Speaker 3: Black without the main focus of his music, which is
50:13
Speaker 3: the big thies, you know, and he signed all these
50:16
Speaker 3: losers potentially and really, and I thought, oh, I can
50:21
Speaker 3: kill this role. This is me. I can destroy a
50:24
Speaker 3: record company just like that man, no problem, and so
50:27
Speaker 3: it was a great bump. It was a wonderful thing,
50:30
Speaker 3: and they were I was turning up at all these things,
50:34
Speaker 3: some big hall in New York with all the half
50:36
Speaker 3: most of the cast of the actors being flown first class.
50:39
Speaker 3: This is years after Hollywood, to be at the Billboard
50:45
Speaker 3: Building with artists and talking about music and film like
50:49
Speaker 3: I know anything my leg so oh great, I get
50:53
Speaker 3: a lot of free food, a first class hotel, in
50:55
Speaker 3: the first class flight. Yeah, bring it, you know. And
50:59
Speaker 3: whenever I'd be out in England anywhere and a few
51:01
Speaker 3: people say it's Graham Parker and they'd look me up.
51:04
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I saw the movie. Young people, young people
51:06
Speaker 3: like twenty year old. Oh yeah, you're the guy who
51:09
Speaker 3: ruined that agency record. My neighbors in this in the
51:15
Speaker 3: here in London, their kids were watching the TV. They
51:19
Speaker 3: were watching the They didn't know much about me. They
51:21
Speaker 3: knew something to do with music. They were watching the
51:24
Speaker 3: TV one night and This Is forty came on and
51:27
Speaker 3: they were it's great, it's next door. The kids were
51:31
Speaker 3: really little. From then on, those kids were like hiding
51:35
Speaker 3: from me. So there's a movie starff you know, now
51:39
Speaker 3: they're great, big tall men and they're like, you know,
51:41
Speaker 3: is that just that stupid geezer.
51:44
Speaker 1: Bumbled around? You know, well, I'll tell you, and yeah,
51:48
Speaker 1: you could attest this. I'm sure you know. I had.
51:51
Speaker 1: There was one time I was out of brother. My
51:52
Speaker 1: brother had was throwing a party. We're all listening to
51:55
Speaker 1: music and we're right, and there's always that section of
51:59
Speaker 1: the of the group of friends that my brother has.
52:01
Speaker 1: We just love music. And you know, you start talking
52:04
Speaker 1: about popular bands popular already, start talking about the really
52:07
Speaker 1: cool musicians, the ones you really need to know. And
52:10
Speaker 1: I'm telling you I'm not I'm not making this up.
52:13
Speaker 1: You know so many times you know, Graham Parker ever
52:16
Speaker 1: listening to Grant Parker, you know, so, yeah, I know
52:18
Speaker 1: Grant Parker is like, you're that cool, Like you know,
52:22
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people that know who you are,
52:23
Speaker 1: but there are people that may not and they should.
52:26
Speaker 1: And I don't know, Jay, if you could, if you
52:28
Speaker 1: know what I'm what I'm talking about. You have those
52:29
Speaker 1: conversations with music friends, you.
52:31
Speaker 2: Know, it's like, right, well, it's hard because most of
52:35
Speaker 2: my music friends we share similar tastes, you know, but
52:40
Speaker 2: even now some you know, they might like this group
52:42
Speaker 2: was more than me. I'm like a little group more
52:43
Speaker 2: than them. But in the main we like the kind
52:45
Speaker 2: of you know, I don't want to mention names, but
52:49
Speaker 2: we're not as interested in what Graham referred to as
52:51
Speaker 2: corporate rock, right, you know, we like the real thing.
52:55
Speaker 2: And so, you know, most of my friends are pretty
52:57
Speaker 2: aware of Grand Parker. My sisters, that's a different story,
53:01
Speaker 2: you know. So he's not like the mainstream. You know,
53:04
Speaker 2: they're not going to know Graham. And if you can
53:06
Speaker 2: expose his music to some of them, either through the
53:09
Speaker 2: music or the book, hey all the better. Can I
53:12
Speaker 2: say one more thing that we touched on that I
53:14
Speaker 2: want to which is one of the things that I
53:19
Speaker 2: don't surprises the right word, but Graham's self awareness that
53:23
Speaker 2: his songs have to be top notch. I mean, I
53:28
Speaker 2: have this mental image of him scribbling on a notepad,
53:31
Speaker 2: crumpling it up and throwing it away. It may not
53:33
Speaker 2: have happened like that, but over and over in the
53:35
Speaker 2: book he says the songs I knew the songs just
53:39
Speaker 2: weren't good enough. And I think that's the mark of
53:42
Speaker 2: a real artist who saying, you know, I'm not gonna
53:45
Speaker 2: just put it out there, just to have something out there.
53:47
Speaker 2: You know, the songs have to be good, and I
53:51
Speaker 2: think it's been a hallmark throughout his career. But it
53:54
Speaker 2: was interesting to me that he just knew himself. He
53:56
Speaker 2: was self aware enough to know that with the songs.
54:01
Speaker 2: A few want to say about that, well, yeah, I did.
54:05
Speaker 3: Make a few attempts, premature attempts, I soon realized after
54:11
Speaker 3: when I started writing the songs that became Howling Wind.
54:15
Speaker 3: One was John Peel, the British DJ started a label
54:20
Speaker 3: with a kind of slightly post psychedelic name of Dandelion Records,
54:25
Speaker 3: and I did send him some kind of tape of
54:28
Speaker 3: my songs at the time, which I knew were good
54:30
Speaker 3: in their own way, and it didn't you know. I
54:34
Speaker 3: think I got a postcard from him actually back, which
54:37
Speaker 3: was not quite what we're looking for now, which kind
54:40
Speaker 3: of ruined about, you know that the next hour of
54:45
Speaker 3: my life, the idea of that. I was pretty young.
54:48
Speaker 3: I was pretty young man and not ready. So there
54:51
Speaker 3: were a few premature attempts, and one was getting a
54:55
Speaker 3: publishing deal before my career began, with a company called
54:59
Speaker 3: town Bridge Records, and because I thought, well, maybe my songs,
55:04
Speaker 3: maybe they can get them to people who are established
55:07
Speaker 3: and they might find something in but they weren't quite there.
55:11
Speaker 3: And it was very good that I was. I understood
55:15
Speaker 3: that as I as I was growing into in my twenties,
55:19
Speaker 3: you know, from age twenty two twenty three onwards, I
55:23
Speaker 3: you know, I sort of had this understanding that, man,
55:27
Speaker 3: you've got to keep working. You've got to you've got
55:30
Speaker 3: to be more than just you know, good, got to
55:33
Speaker 3: be better than good. And kept working, kept writing, and
55:38
Speaker 3: that's it just became a sort of mindset of mine.
55:43
Speaker 3: And it's almost almost a sense of morality about it.
55:47
Speaker 3: Don't waste anyone's time, including your own.
55:50
Speaker 1: Jay, Yeah, what does this album mean to you? All
55:52
Speaker 1: these years later?
55:54
Speaker 2: I play Paneled periodically, you know, a few times a year,
55:57
Speaker 2: but obviously I listened to it a lot closer while
56:02
Speaker 2: doing the book, and I was reminded once again just
56:06
Speaker 2: how good the album is. All three elements. You've got
56:14
Speaker 2: the band playing, so there's they're they're playing with such
56:17
Speaker 2: sensitivity behind Graham, you know, just every every note is
56:21
Speaker 2: in the right place, every every every instrument is right there.
56:26
Speaker 2: You've got these wonderful, wonderful lyrics, and then as I
56:29
Speaker 2: think I say in the book, the vocals just tie together.
56:32
Speaker 2: You know, his singing is just so passionate, and so
56:38
Speaker 2: he's invested in every lyric, every line, and so you've
56:44
Speaker 2: got you know, the playing, the singing, and the lyrics,
56:48
Speaker 2: the songs themselves. It's just, you know, it's spectacular. Like
56:52
Speaker 2: us Bastin said, every song is spectacular.
56:57
Speaker 1: Find the bookdown Rock website at bookdown Rock there and
57:01
Speaker 1: can find all the back episodes of the show, the
57:03
Speaker 1: latest episode in video and audio links to all of
57:06
Speaker 1: the platforms where you can listen to the podcast, plus
57:09
Speaker 1: all the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
57:14
Speaker 1: and x. Also check out the Booked on rockblog. Find
57:17
Speaker 1: your local independent bookstore. Find out all the latest hot
57:20
Speaker 1: rock book releases, and before you go, check out the
57:23
Speaker 1: Booked on Rock online store. Pick up some Booked on
57:26
Speaker 1: Rock merch. It's all at booked on Rock dot com.
57:30
Speaker 1: Graham Parker's Howl and Win is out now. You can
57:32
Speaker 1: find it through Amazon.
57:34
Speaker 2: Correct right Graham Parker's Halowin on Amazon and you'll see
57:38
Speaker 2: plenty of five star reviews.
57:40
Speaker 1: Absolutely well worth the read, and I really congratulations Jay
57:46
Speaker 1: on this project and Graham, congrats on an amazing career.
57:50
Speaker 1: And we were looking forward to I was talking to
57:53
Speaker 1: you before we started recording. Maybe you can come back
57:55
Speaker 1: around here to the East coast here in the US.
57:57
Speaker 1: I'd love to see it perform.
57:59
Speaker 3: Yep. Well, you have to keep an eye on Graham
58:01
Speaker 3: Parker dot net, I suppose, and on the tour page
58:06
Speaker 3: other you know, some people follow me on Twitter and
58:08
Speaker 3: blue Sky, so I usually and there's a Facebook official
58:12
Speaker 3: Facebook page Graham Parker, so you know, that's how we
58:16
Speaker 3: find things out these days. I guess online, but I'll
58:19
Speaker 3: be there, you know, hopefully second third week of April
58:23
Speaker 3: by the end, aside of doing some shows solo shows
58:26
Speaker 3: April May and Connecticut may well get on the list.
58:31
Speaker 3: It depends on all the vagaries of booking. Everyone and
58:35
Speaker 3: his brother is out touring and playing everywhere. It's competitive
58:40
Speaker 3: and you know, getting things in line with a touring
58:43
Speaker 3: schedule is always difficult for the agents, you know, the
58:46
Speaker 3: booking agents, my agent. But keep an eye out. That's
58:49
Speaker 3: the way to do it.
58:50
Speaker 1: And Jane, where can we find you if we want
58:52
Speaker 1: to find you? Online? Website and social media?
58:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a website, well, I think it's called
59:00
Speaker 2: Graham Parker's ham and Win dot net and that has
59:04
Speaker 2: my email address on it and a link purchased the book.
59:09
Speaker 2: And otherwise I'm on Twitter, I'm on Blue Sky, I'm
59:12
Speaker 2: on Facebook. I love to hear from people about what
59:16
Speaker 2: they think about the book, and if their thoughts are good,
59:19
Speaker 2: they usually set them on the GRAM. I don't, but
59:22
Speaker 2: it hasn't been anything too negative. Yeah, I'm happy to
59:24
Speaker 2: hear from people.
59:25
Speaker 1: Sure, great Graham Parker, J. Nackman, thank you so much. Guys.
59:29
Speaker 3: Well, thank you Jay for a great book. You did
59:31
Speaker 3: a really amazing job, very well researched. And thanks Eric
59:35
Speaker 3: for your time. Man. It's nice talking here. That's it.
59:45
Speaker 2: It's in the books.