Latest / Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce / 197. She Took Her Power Back—What Money Healing Really Looks Like After Divorce

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197. She Took Her Power Back—What Money Healing Really Looks Like After Divorce · Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce

• 0:49
  Speaker 1: They're the expert and they're super smart and they're on this pedestal and I'm like, yeah, they're smart, but so are you.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: You're smart, that's right.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: No, women need to hear that.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: You know how many women tell me I'm not smart, you know.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, women need to hear that.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Thank you for saying it.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Hi love, Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary, the podcast helping divorcees go beyond talk therapy to process your grief, find the healing you crave and build back your confidence.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, Dawn Wiggins, a therapist, coach, integrative healer and divorcee.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Join me for a fresh approach to healing grief and building your confidence after divorce.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Hi loves, Today we have Rhonda Nordick and I am very excited to have Rhonda because, first of all, you know I'm a law of attraction nerd and I really believe that there is just something unique about Rhonda that caught my attention and here we are.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: But she's a certified financial analyst for women who are going through divorce and she is your biggest advocate, she says she's also the author of Bold Beginnings, which is this beautiful journal for women where she unpacks her story and helps you unpack your money story Really, really remarkable.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: She lives in Wisconsin, which is where I was born, so I just felt kismet with her and we've never really tackled the CDFA piece here on the Dear Divorce Diary podcast and I know that Rhonda is going to do such a beautiful job today.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Rhonda, welcome.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me Happy to be here.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Yay.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: So I know, Rhonda, that you have this sort of beautiful story of shifting from feeling financially disempowered into empowerment right, and I know that you feel so passionately about women and finances in general.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: But I'm wondering if you could share with us the single most pivotal moment that you realized that this particular work was your calling.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Goodness, the single most.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: It was definitely a process right.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: But I started in the financial industry in my early 20s and I suppose it was then when I basically was like, listen, I know that I want to be able to help people I don't know exactly, you know what that looks like but started in the financial industry and really had the opportunity to be able to learn.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: The one thing that I think really stood out to me was when I learned the rule of 72.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: And I talk about this in my book.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: It's a simple concept that, basically, as you have the opportunity to apply that to your situation, you realize, okay, if I can have one thing right that I can learn, that I can apply, that can make a difference in my situation.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: That would be great.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: And we were doing these women's events and we this was, you know, we were doing a lot more in person and we would have standing room only and the women would come and we would teach these concepts.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: But then what I found that happened in the midst of those situations was women would say, well, you know, I love this, I think this is totally practical and applicable, and I'm going to go home and, you know, tell my husband about it.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: And then he basically would say, hey, don't worry about it.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: We've got a guy and you know all of that, and I'm like, oh my gosh, like there's so much work to be done here.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Like no right, like so.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: So that was interesting, um, and so I really leaned into, you know, continuing down that path of hosting women's events and educating and empowering them.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: And then, in 2014, I decided to leave the financial industry because I wanted to be able to go all in, at even a deeper level, in doing consulting and coaching for women that were going through divorce from a financial perspective.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: And I remember sitting at a conference where I had gone through some additional training to do financial coaching so very specific around the attitudes and beliefs, around money and one of the women at my table I was the only kind of quote, unquote for profit business that was part of it.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: So I was there with another lot of nonprofit leaders and one of the women said, rhonda, you know, the women that you're working with don't really need this information.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, we, I know.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, we're going to have this conversation over lunch, like I.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: It was like one of those, like I'm putting, I'm like no we're going to have this conversation.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: And I said that's not true.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: I said I sit across the table from women who come from very well off situations, but what happens in those situations is the women are dismissed Like oh listen, honey, you're going to be just fine.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Oh don't worry about it.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: You're going to make more than you know or you can get remarried Like there's a whole barrage of ridiculousness.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: And I have said from that moment, dawn, like listen, it does not matter.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: And this is what I told this gal, I listen, it does not matter.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: And this was what I told the scale I said it doesn't matter how many zeros are in the bank account if we don't know what it means for us.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Wow, the women with more money did not have more peace.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: It is not synonymous, right, rhonda?
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: The women who have more money did not have more peace.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: I have worked with some of the wealthiest, most powerful people you know, in my, in my therapy practice over the years and they do not have more peace.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: They don't have more peace.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: No, no, I have goosebumps with that because it's so, it is so pivotal to the work that we're doing.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: And now, you know, I got frustrated because I'm like, what do you mean?
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Like, oh, don't worry about it, we've got a guy.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: I don't want to rock the boat, blah, blah, blah.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, let's lean into these conversations.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: So then, as a kind of next step with that, we started to say, okay, how do we have the conversation?
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: So, rather than, you know, then it evolved from we're going to teach educational concepts around money, things, practical that you could go back and use to.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, now we got to teach them how to have these assertive conversations, because clearly now that's where.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: So then I went back and went through some additional training on, you know, the educational component and the assertive conversation piece, like how do we help women have those conversations?
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: That started to help, but then really, at the end of the day, right was like, okay, how do I help women that are in a spot that no longer then need to get their husband's permission to move forward with something?
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Because this is because really right and I know you see this we're either going to move toward the things that bring us pleasure or the way from things that bring us pain.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: But when we're in that middle kind of area where we're like, well, it's not overly painful, or I've dealt with it and I don't realize how bad it is, or I haven't dealt with it and I don't realize how bad it is, which is where you come in, or hey, we're still going on trips and my bills are being paid and I live in a great house in a great neighborhood and blah, blah, blah, Right, Like they're like yeah, you know what, I'm not going to rock the boat.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: And so I was like, well, if I can help the women that have already decided that they're going down this path, gosh, maybe then I could really have the opportunity to help them with some transformation around their money story.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: And that that has been totally true.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Like you know, I think women, again, then, are moving in this direction of like.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Now I really got to figure this out.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: There's a hunger, right, there's a hunger to really revamp the way we have been living.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, and along with that comes the well, rhonda, now I feel bad and I have shame and guilt around, not you know, knowing more.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: I'm like listen, we can't do anything about that right now.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: That's you know.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: That is the past.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: But guess what?
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we have this opportunity right now to be able to help you lean in.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: And so in a short period of time right, we've seen that they go from feeling very chaotic, very unsettled, very overwhelmed, to really having confidence to be able to say listen, I might not know every single definition, I might not know every single concept, but I know enough to be able to ask really good questions to get really good answers.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: You know, as they're going through this, yeah, and we, we tend to falsely correlate security with money.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: Right, but, but I think that when you do this work with women and you help them feel more secure around their money, it creates this sense of security in life.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Agreed.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: I agree, and you know, unfortunately, right, as they're going through this process, the process in and of itself for divorce is not very kind to women, right?
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: I mean it's like, oh listen, you'll be able to figure it out, it'll be fine.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: But women don't know what that means and I'm like, first, I'm like we have to define what fine is, and then, when we do that, based on what their goals are and what is important to them, based on what their goals are and what is important to them, once we define what fine is, then, and only then, are we really able to engage in good negotiations, because otherwise women are like, okay, yeah, well, I mean, this could be over, and you know.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: But what typically that means is, yes, it can, if you concede, and then you concede again, and then you concede again, and you concede again, and women find themselves backed into a corner because they've made all these concessions.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: But when we understand how negotiations really need to be happening, we realize that it's a quid pro quo, it's I'm giving you something in exchange not the I'm giving, I'm giving, I'm giving, I'm giving you something in exchange, not the I'm giving, I'm giving, I'm giving, I'm giving with nothing in exchange.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's just a mirror of, probably, how the marriage went right, concession after concession after concession, yeah, yeah, okay.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: So you have such a wealth of experience and you have seen so many things.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: What's one financial myth about divorce and you've already started to unpack it right but a financial myth about divorce that keeps you up at night.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: And how do you wish we, as women, would challenge it?
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love that question so much, so I think the biggest thing for me is that it's not black and white thing.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: For me is that it's not black and white.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: The numbers in the calculators are only as good as the numbers we're putting into them.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: So a lot of times, people are like yeah, well, we've got the support calculation, or we got this maintenance calculation, or we got this property division, you know, and it is what it is it's, you know it's split, blah, blah, blah.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: The problem with that, though, is that it really does depend on what numbers we're using.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: What are we using for income?
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: What are we using for his income?
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: The higher income earners sometimes get bonuses or incentives to stay with the company.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: How are we counting for that Same thing?
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: On property division, it's not always apples to apples, and so are we taking into consideration the taxes, or?
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: You know, there's a variety of different things.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: So I think, a lot of times, women in particular, especially around support the attorneys, will come back and say here's the support calculation, and the women accept it.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Because it's it's alleged black and white.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: So what then?
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: What I do with my clients is I'm like, okay, this is a good baseline, but here's what I want you to do.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: I want you to go back and we're going to ask this question and this question, this question, and I want them to rerun the calculations and give us a range based on my input.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Uh-huh, I love that.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: And then they do it, and then the clients are like, oh my gosh, you're kidding, like there's a, we can negotiate this.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Everything is negotiable.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: I don't care what somebody says, cause here's the, here's my, my logical brain, with us, right?
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: If it wasn't, if it wasn't negotiable, then why do we really care who our judge is, if our case went to court?
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Because if you could have five different judges and they're going to give you five different outcomes, that now means that it is not objective.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Well right, is that the truth?
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, so financial advocacy in divorce is a niche, right?
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: If you could redesign the system, what methods or policies would you want to change or implement to make it more equitable for women?
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Ooh, I love this, I love this.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: So there's a couple things.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: One is, I would say, one of my frustrations is the way that they look at support.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: So, for example, for the moneyed spouse which let's, in this case, say it's the guy right where they will say hey, listen, we're going to look back at his income, we're not going to look forward.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, so they're taking in, they're looking at historical data For the women, particularly women that have been stay-at-home parents or work, part-time or whatever they're like.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: No, we're not going to look back at what you've done over the last 10, 15 years we're going to look back at what you've done over the last 10, 15 years.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: We're going to look forward.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: I'm like how is this?
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: even fair.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: That's inequitable.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, wow, right.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: So that's one area where I'm like listen, apples to apples.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, if you're going to look back for both, look back for both.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: If you're going to look forward for one, then we need to be looking forward for both.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: So, that would be.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: That would be one thing.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: The other thing is probably related to just the opportunity for women to be able to have access to the same resources that their spouse does during the divorce process, and there's some things in place that could make that happen.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: But, even so, what a lot of times happens is they're like hey, listen, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna give you access to a little bit.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: They're still almost like on an allowance a lot of times, which is pretty frustrating, and so there's a lot of financial abuse.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Yes, that is still happening.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, in the midst of the process.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: And if I could change yeah, it's awful.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: So if I could change that along with the first thing that I mentioned, I would feel like if I can see that happen in my lifetime, I would be really grateful, because it's really a problem.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: There was a client I was working with and she and I are actually now that she's on the other side of her divorce process.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: She and I are actually friends Cause, you know, sometimes you meet with those clients.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: You're like, if we're not clients like I, so anyways, she lived in this house right 13,000 square foot house.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: I called it the castle.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: I'm like listen, you're in the castle right.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Like this is results, not typical results.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: That this is results, not typical results, that's right, that's right.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: But it was amazing because it really helps illustrate the point right.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Husband had left, um, you know, they had their daughter, um kind of alternating whatever they had to find schedule, you know whatever.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, she's in this house all by herself without any access to cash Wow, any access to cash?
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: And the attorney said, hey, listen, well, she's got access to the credit card.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: She can just put X amount of dollars a month on that Problem with that was she never saw the statements because the credit card wasn't in her name.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: So she can spend five.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: We don't know what he's spending on that credit card.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: He can see all of her purchases.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: He can see all of her purchases right.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, she lived in the castle, but like Belle in the tower, that's right, it was terrible.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: And so he's spending whatever he wants.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: She doesn't know what he's spending.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: He's, you know, putting these caps on what she can spend, but here was the thing.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: So A if her daughter was going, on some kind of a field trip or whatever and needed cash she didn't have it.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: She could not have cash unless she made a purchase and did a cash back on the right, like at the teller.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: But then also she couldn't rent an apartment and they kept saying, well, can you just, you know, just go somewhere and rent what are not understanding Like she did not have access to money to be able to put down on the house.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: She didn't have access to credit.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: She as far as like being able to write rent and nobody was going to rent to her.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: And it just, you know, it just illustrates how deep women's disempowerment goes right, Because in these instances, whether you live in a 13,000 square foot house or you live in a 700 square foot apartment and don't have access to cash, like as women, we have gotten so desensitized to feeling like we don't have a choice.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: And back to your comment about it's not black and white.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Right, we feel as women it is black and white.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: We get stuck in that thinking.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: That's right, true, but because it's been like this for generations, we just sort of go along with it and rage internally or get depressed but like, wow, yeah.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the attorneys are not helping, you know, because they're like oh well, the bills are getting paid, she's got access to some money.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: But what they weren't seeing was if there were things that we were advocating, like if they would have listened to some of the things we were advocating for early on now we got it figured out later, but early on, right, she would have had some consistent income coming in that then would have helped her qualify to have rent.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: You know a rental income.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: You know, have rent, but it was so incredibly frustrating.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I and again it's, it's happening.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: It's happening at all income levels.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Absolutely right, every tax bracket.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Now, I've a long time had this theory that um and and and I may have this theory theory because I did it on some level right, you know that thing that if you spot it you got it.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: But I've had this theory that a lot of times women will make decisions in terms of marital partners because they subconsciously doubt their own capacity to earn, and so they get married partially, as I mean, it's so much attachment style stuff, right but also because they want this sense of security financially, and so they'll marry a particular type of partner.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: But then it doesn't that disempowerment.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: It plays out in a way that it doesn't matter how much money there was in the marriage.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: That disempowerment breeds disempowerment breeds disempowerment, right, and then they end up still feeling disempowered down the road.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Do you see that women making marital choices based on financial inequality and then it biting them in the ass down the road?
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: So good question.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know that I've ever thought of that before.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think that I think I see that happening when women are through the process and looking at getting into another relationship.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's where I see it.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, because now they're so depleted emotionally, financially, mentally, and they just don't see a great way out.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: But they've got this.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: I know what work.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a second marriage right.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm like, okay, yes, we did all this work now on getting you financially confident do not go back into those old yeah, like yes, that's what that's when I am, you know, in support of exploring a prenup or you know something like that.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Like I had a client, we'd done all this work, and she gets toward the end of the process and she's looking to purchase a home and she ends up taking her new quote, unquote friend with her, uh-huh, and I'm like why, why are you go by yourself?
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, go by yourself, and I've done a lot of that in my own life, where I'll just go in and like in my mind, think, okay, I'm going through divorce, I'm a single person, right, and so that I can get into that mindset.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: But we too often think we have to bring.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: No, we've done all this work, you go, you do that, you have the conversations, you negotiate, you can have a sounding board.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that you have to.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: You know, this is all.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: You have to be the lone wolf on everything, but go by yourself and allow yourself that opportunity to be in touch with your own body response, your own intuition, your own somatic experience of yeah, yeah, is this, is this for me?
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Or yeah, we're so used to deferring our wisdom so well and you know I would say, I mean, I did this probably seven years ago, where I was looking at buying an office space and I had never done anything like that before.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I knew nothing, right.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: But I just remember I was like listen, I'm going to put on some more deodorant.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: I'm showing up to this meeting.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Nobody literally knew I was going not one person because I'm like I can't have the noise.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: I need to show up and say listen.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Huh, that's interesting, tell me more.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Huh, that's interesting.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: I'm happy to make a swift decision when I have all of the information.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: And the guy who was selling it was a 30-year veteran in the real estate market because his contract with the broker had just expired.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: So I was basically serving as the real estate agent.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I didn't think of it in that terms at the time, but we got done with the deal I negotiated.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: In that moment I said you know, I'm going to give you an offer.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: And he basically said well, I'm offended by your offer.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: And I said well, I understand, but you know what.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: You've been doing this for 30 years.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: You know how this works.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: If you don't like my offer, then coner in writing.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: And that was a defining moment.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Defining moment from his relationship with me and how he kept trying to bully me into just agreeing.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Because, as women, how afraid are we of offending people?
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: So afraid of it, right.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: And I was like no, this is not happening.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: And even to this day I can remember where I was sitting and I don't know exactly where that came from Like you can't overthink that stuff.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: But it was like the right time, the right verbiage and it shifted things.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: And we got to the end.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: I had, you know, my broker, I had the CPA, I had the, you know, real estate, everything that I needed.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: And when we got done at the closing table, my mail arrived team was like hey, rhonda, good deal.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: And it was like fist bump after because they realized that I stood up and, you know, was able to do this, and to this day I would do it again, a thousand percent over, and so I always share that because, listen, you don't have to know everything.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: You just have to surround yourself with the right team of people.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: That's right, that's right.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: And you have to be willing to have the tough conversation.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: I always say that divorce grief it's a team sport.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Right, totally.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: But not to defer your, not to defer right.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: You want your team of divorce professionals to be pushing you in the direction of empowerment.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Not deferring your wisdom for our wisdom, but yeah, yeah, tapping into that wisdom.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, so this is a.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: This next question sort of like is a hybrid between my work and your work, but you see the way we shoot ourselves in the foot right In the process.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: So what role, would you say, emotional intelligence plays in financial planning for women going through divorce?
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: How do you help your clients balance right the way that they're moving through the financial piece, but with so much emotion?
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: How do you help them understand their emotional intelligence in making financial decisions?
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because I think I've done this so long that I think I just do it automatically.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: I bet yes, right, that's true.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: But I just had a conversation this morning with someone who had recognized exactly what you're talking about and I think I have a process that I take my clients through.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: It's called my signature bridge method.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: And so that's our framework for helping them navigate through that.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: However, the example that I was sharing this morning which kind of highlights this, is I was talking with a client.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: They're prepping for mediation coming up within the next week or so.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: I've been brought on to be able to help her navigate through the financial stuff, be a sounding board for her and help her think through the options.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: So I'm kind of like in a little bit late in the party, but not too late, right.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: So as long as paperwork hasn't been signed, I can still kind of come in Intervene.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: So, yep, so the attorney was open to meeting.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: So we had a conversation on Friday and the attorney said, okay, here's my, you know, tell me a little bit about what you do and what your role is and how you might be able to help.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: And so I was sharing with her some of those things and she said, okay, well, from my perspective, the biggest issue that this client is having is do they keep?
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Which house do they keep?
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Do they keep the house?
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Do they keep the condo, do they?
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: You know, like there's all these moving parts right.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: And I said, okay, well, I'm meeting with her this afternoon, Let me see what I can do.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: So the condo that they own was impacted by the hurricane so it's not like livable at this point, but she's not living anywhere near there anyway.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: She's in another state.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: So what I said to her was hey, where do you think that you would want to live?
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: And she's like I don't know.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: And I said okay.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a huge part of the problem in this process right, we're so overwhelmed.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: We're so out of touch with what we want.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: And so I said, okay, well, let's paint the picture here a little bit.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I said let's just say that you had a team of people that could help with the contract, the construction and managing that piece on the condo in Florida.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: And let's just say fast forward, it's done, it's been updated, it's the insurance proceeds have been applied to that space.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Do you want to move back?
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: And she said yes, and that was huge, because the attorney's been asking that same question where do you want to live?
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Where do you want to live?
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Where do you want to live?
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: And she keeps saying I don't know.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Because there's such overwhelm.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Right, there's such overwhelm.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Do you remember when I guessed it on your podcast and I said there was a homeopathic remedy for that brain fog?
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Sepia, right, where I can't, I don't know, I just don't know the answer.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I feel so much brain fog.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, I love how you helped her feel into that decision right, Because you helped with this thought experiment remove some of the overwhelm from the decision and then she could sort of see a clear path.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: So then I was thankfully able to go back to the attorney and say, hey, listen, we've made some headway and it looks like she wants to keep the condo, so let's move that into her column.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: And then you know, the other home that they own he can keep.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: And I told her I said, listen, at the end of the day you make the decision to keep it and you also have the flexibility then down the road, if you change your mind, you can sell it.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't mean that you're committing to having to move there.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: It's just you're giving yourself the opportunity to make that choice at a later time.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: And yeah, it was awesome.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: So that was just kind of like a real recent example of, I think, how I do that as part of how I'm framing things that I just do automatically because I've got the experience to do it, but it's working.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: So that's good.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you could have our listeners carry one money mindset with them, right?
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: A money mindset that they need to you see over and over again, they need to shift, right, they were going to write it on their mirror.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: I have in my coaching program.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: I have women write a different mirror message every week, right, what money mindset mirror message would you want them to take with them?
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: So it's a formula.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: It's knowledge plus experience equals confidence, because if we have the knowledge without the experience, it's theory.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: If we have the experience without the knowledge, it's trial and error, and then we wonder why things aren't working.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: But, when we get those things working together simultaneously, we then improve our confidence, and it's a really beautiful thing.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: And so that would be my, that would be my takeaway.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: I love that, right, because I think, as women with money purchases, we shy away from the experience piece.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Right, we again want to defer our wisdom and we're so afraid if I make this decision, what if it's the wrong decision and I can never come back from it.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: And that's not a thing.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: We can come back a million and one times in life.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Right, there's a constant potential for reboot.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we have to be able to learn from experience to have that confidence and wisdom.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: That's beautiful.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Anything else you want our listeners to hear today?
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: I would say, I just want to encourage them.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: You're smart, that's right, you're smart.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: And while it might seem yeah.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Like no.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Women need to hear that.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: You know how many women tell me I'm not.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: You know, yes, women need to hear that.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: You know how many women tell me I'm not smart.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: You know, yes, women need to hear that.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Thank you for saying it.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of times they, you know, and it's part of a respect thing, but it's also part of how their you know spouse has positioned themselves, that like they're the expert and they're super smart and like you know, they're on this pedestal and I'm like, yeah, they're smart, but so are you right and it's not to the detriment of you.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Like I think there's just a lot of programming there that goes into.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: You know that they're not smart enough, but they are.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: They are, Rhonda.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: We didn't talk about this yet.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: I can't believe I forgot.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Tell our listeners a little bit about Bold Beginnings, your beautiful financial planning journal that you've created.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Tell them a little bit just about what was that like to create it?
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: And gosh, it's such a beautiful gift.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I have a copy here.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: We're going to definitely put a link to it in the show notes.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so Bold Beginnings.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: This actually started as a 10 chapter giant book.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, my word yeah.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: And I felt like that's too heavy, so we are going to pare it down.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: So we pared it down and I wanted to be able to share a little bit about my story, my history as it relates to money and so probably the most vulnerable I've been, and again you know, it just felt very vulnerable.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: It is Because I haven't shared a lot of those things that had happened, but it helped me to show like listen, I can relate to a lot of the things that women are going through as it relates to their relationship and their history with money.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: And then diving into what is it I want them to walk away with.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: I want them to walk away with the confidence.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: So we took the word confidence.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: We broke it up into.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Each of the letters stands for something, because I love acronyms.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: It's really practical.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: It's intended to be one of those things that like throw in your purse.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is because it's not long right.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not overwhelming?
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: No, it's not at all.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: It's got pictures in it like mandala style pictures that you can color, which I think is such an important grounding skill when you're going through something like divorce.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: I can't tell you how many mandalas I colored.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly, so yeah vulnerable story is is beautiful in there, and I think it matters so much because I think, as women, we have this affliction where we compare ourselves to other women and we judge ourselves as less than.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: And so, for instance, right, it's very easy for me to say, oh, look at Rhonda, she's so successful.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: I bet she's so successful because something in her life was easier, and that's in fact, not true.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Something in your life was harder, and it was the thing you had to overcome in order to have the success and the confidence you have today.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: And so I think it's so beautiful that you shared your story so that when we compare, we can say, oh, if Rhonda could overcome this vulnerable, hard story, then maybe I can too.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, absolutely.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: And that's really, at the end of the day, right?
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: I end the book by saying you know, when I started my business, basically, I said if I can impact you know the lives of women and their relationship with money, if I can improve one woman's relationship with money, I've now empowered her for a lifetime.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: That's legacy.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: That's legacy it is.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Yep and I very much believe that.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah Well, thank you so much for being here today, for sharing your passion and your wisdom with us, your passion and your wisdom with us, and I will definitely put all of your contact information in the show notes so that they can all find your beautiful book and your work should they need it.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the opportunity to share.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Dear Divorce Diary is a podcast by my coach John.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: You can find more at mycoachjohncom.