Latest / LOYAL TO THE CRAFT / Emblem3’s Jack Mudd + Manager Kyle Hulett on “By Any Means Necessary” (WWWY Backstage)

Transcript

Emblem3’s Jack Mudd + Manager Kyle Hulett on “By Any Means Necessary” (WWWY Backstage) · LOYAL TO THE CRAFT

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yo, what's up?
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's Jack Mudd from Emblem 3.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is Kyle Hewlett from Cupid Theory Management.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: And this is Loyal to the Craft.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here with Jack Mudd.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: I just met, dude, through a homie Kyle, Emblem 3.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Man, take me on the journey of the early days, getting into the music scene, and how did it all happen, man?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like as a kid.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it all happened.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: It started with a dream, you know, looking up to a ton of bands, Blick with 82, Sun 41, Green Day, seeing these guys, you know, back in the day when there were CDs playing their CDs, listening to their music, and watching interviews on YouTube early days, and just being like, how do I, you know, I wanted to be them and emulate them in any way possible.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, how do I get to that level?
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: And you start to realize all of these people have a very similar journey, and it's it all starts somewhere, and they're just people having dreams and visions, and they just start, you know, working towards it.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: You don't really know if you're doing it right or not.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I say you just start, and what that means is whatever it means to you, I guess, is is it can it can be a million different things.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, for me, I grew up in a a household that had a bunch of musical instruments, so I wanted to be a drummer.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: My start was okay, I'm gonna go down to the the basement studio and hit drums, you know, and and uh looked up to my dad growing up.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: He's a he's still a drummer to this day and watching him play.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: Sick.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I just wanted to be around it, and that was the start.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then it turned into okay, I feel comfortable enough to show people this.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go talk to the neighbor that plays guitar, let's get him in the garage and play, let's get, you know, his buddy from school to play bass, and then you start a band, and then from there, okay, let's do this for a couple years and rehearse and become uh a real band.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then what would be the next uh you know point of that journey would be let's get in front of people, let's see if there's people out there that care what we're doing.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so I started making you know flyers around town and put a show on at the house, and whoever could come around at the neighbor or whoever's around at the neighborhood could come and you know watch a live show, and you start there, and then people liked it, and you start a YouTube channel, and that's kind of where my journey started was YouTube, and then I met this dude, but we can get into that, yeah.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, dude, and I mean Kyle, from your perspective, you manage a lot of amazing artists.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Cammy Kiho is one of them.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Shout out Cami for doing the thing.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Similar journey.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this dude is a legend right here.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: But both of you guys, man, and like what you just said is the collective of the mission of Loyal to the Craft is to show the youth in their communities and the people that are there supporting them to chase the dream.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: But it isn't an overnight thing.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: The the word viral is still relatively new and not really realistic.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: The journey is one step in front of the other, right?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, talk about the journey when you're working with artists of like how to have that patience.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, virality is not a business model, you know.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it is a commodity ultimately, but it is pretty helpful, you know, if you can work towards it for sure.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I I think it's so interesting with you know, Jack R's story meeting as well.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, your share is so wonderful because like one of the hardest things to do is just put yourself out there to play in front of somebody else for the first time.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Terrifying.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, dude, there are so many times I wanted to be like a singer, and like I just couldn't fucking sing in front of somebody else.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good one.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: You're a great singer, Kyle.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: So terrifying.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Don't lie to us.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Never even heard me say, Come on.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Get out of here.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: I used to live with you, dude.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: You might have heard me say, actually, you sing in the show.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot about that.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you wouldn't hear you.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually such a great story.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: We did live together, you know.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Richard Rands.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: When we were both trying to like make it, you know, at some point we had decided that we were going to put ourselves out there and move out to Los Angeles.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: We were both roommates uh back in like 2013 or something like that.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's such a cool story with you as with Emblem Three as well, too.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that really ties into me because, you know, when I was living in Poughkeepsie, New York, uh, there was a viral video that went around with this band on X Factor called Emblem 3, and I remember just being so motivated and so inspired by them doing an original song that I showed it to my mom, and I'm jumping all over the couch and like, mom, I want to find raw and verbatim, I want to find raw and undeniable talent just like this.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And about three or four months later, I ended up moving out to California and just taking the leap.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I found somebody that had a room that I could live in, and they let me stay there for like 500 bucks a month.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was like part-time working for them, part-time working at a Starbucks.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I like found the closest thing, like down the street, and I just like there was like California have all these plazas, right?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so like I just walked into every single plaza in the closest possible plaza from that house that I knew that I could walk to because I wasn't gonna be able to afford a car, and took an application at every single one of them, and I interviewed every single one of them, and I continue to follow up with each of them like every day, going back to like, yo, I really just like I'll do anything.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've always wanted to work at a Starbucks, I've always wanted to learn how to make coffee.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I think the first thing I got was a Taco Bell, like on site, and then I knew that there was like the Starbucks across the way that paid 50 cents more, so like I'm gonna keep interviewing there and not tell them I worked at the window and just did took the first possible job because I knew that I had to figure this out, and I was so dedicated, loyal to the craft that like it really is like a do or die mentality.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, acceptance, like I share this with people all the time, you know.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there are some people that will spend their entire life becoming, and then there are some people that just are always happening and always will be.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Youngblood's a great example of that.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody just came out the womb was Youngblood, you know.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then there are some people that just need to be, and the difference of that is you accepting what you do with your life every single day, and doing that every single day for the rest of your life.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: From that point forward, it's just about having fun.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's a matter of time because you know what you're already doing.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: You can look at the trajectory as long as you continue to do it, and the rest of your life is literally just about having fun and having time on the way there.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm serious though, like that that is great.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Acceptance is the answer, and you either accept that you are or you aren't.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: And for either of those, you're absolutely correct.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I love it.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: What a what an awesome dual journey uh and then eventually meeting each other and the way the world works and meeting, forming the collective of the community of the people that should be in your life to help elevate and inspire and push the journey forward that step by step.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I meet a lot of young emerging artists and their parents wanting to know how they can make it and how they can get into it.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: And musician, manager, similar things.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: One's playing music on stage, sometimes you're tech in, sometimes you're doing other things that maybe is not your skill set.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: By any means necessary.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: By any means necessary, dude.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we say that often to these kids that we meet.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, your parents want you to be an accountant.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, if that's if that's how you're gonna do music, still, like you said, man, you go and apply to all these other jobs.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: You do both of the things to make it happen.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: But yo, maybe you're not set to be a rock star, or maybe you don't want to be that, but you want to be in the music industry.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Be the best accountant for the most biggest rock star band.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Be a lawyer, be a manager, whatever it is.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much potential in the music industry to have a sustainable career path.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that not a lot of parents know that.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm glad you you you you touched on that because that do-ar-die mentality of just doing the other stuff while still trying to live out the dream until it then intersects and you can do it, huge.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm such a great example of somebody that has done every single job possible in the music industry.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: There was a time where I was a booking agent, I've been a talent buyer, a promoter.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: I I was booking shows for like 10 years.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, when I came out to LA, I started club promoting because it was like I knew that there was a cool bar that I was gonna meet really great people at.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Immediately made friends with the owner the first night and was like, what can I do to start DJing here?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: How can I start promoting?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: How can I help?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: You just make yourself useful as possible, as quickly as possible.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, a big part of that, especially if you're chasing a dream and trying to find out you're in, is like making yourself useful.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that part is like so important.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is like, A, like if there's something that you need out of this, it's never asking somebody else to give it to you.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's leading leading with an offer.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, all partnerships, like the number one rule of partnerships is A, nobody gives a fuck about you.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And B, what are you doing for them?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and in order to get what you need, you need to lead with an offer and bake yourself into that.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I saw I did that for years.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, hey, like, I really need to sell out this show.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I know that there's another bigger promoter in this area, and so I'm going to look at their deals, their ticket deals, and say, hey, uh, you have to sell this many tickets for this person in order to even just play.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: You have to sell this many tickets to even make money.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you sell half of them and make twice the money?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I found a way to make myself instrumental in order to even get them to play for me because I really wanted to figure out how to do that part of it, so that as I developed as a manager, I wanted to do every single job so that as I grew, I could I knew exactly who I was hiring, what I was hiring them for because I've already done the job.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: One thing I want to add in to this too, just to talk about and answer your question earlier, is yes, it's important to start, and and whatever that means is gonna be different for different people.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: But a big thing for me, like you as well, um, with moving to LA and then finding jobs and just being able to stay afloat and and make it happen every single day.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: I came from St.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Louis, Missouri.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's great bands like Story of the Year who are here tonight.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: I was just catching up with them.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, there is some sort of a scene out where I grew up, but it wasn't until I made the leap and I left everything I knew and moved to California.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: So you almost have to place yourself leap of faith.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, take that leap of faith.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: You have to place yourself, put yourself where those opportunities are, and that's how you can kind of that's a good start, you know.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because that's another thing.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like I grew up in a really small town.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and a lot of kids, I I talked to lots of the youth that is asking, they they ask, like, how do you make a drum company that is a global thing and meet Trey Cool from Green Day and all that?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, I put myself out there.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I grew up in Southbridge, Massachusetts.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's nothing there, but Boston's an hour away, New York's three hours away, Providence is an hour and a half.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I found I hitched rides with friends, I found ways to get myself out there and put myself out there.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: More importantly, ate shit on the way.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Was willing to eat shit.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, touring in the early days, sleeping on floors, yeah, maybe probably more often than not, sleeping in the van, not eating for a day because you didn't not make money at the early, like eating shit for a while until the slow gains start happening.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: What was that like for you guys early on, Jack?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like building a fan base and knowing that it was starting to click and one by one more people were showing up.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: How did you guys connect with your fans at the beginning?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, man, uh I mean our journey was a little unique just because of how quickly everything happened.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like after the boys got off, I was not on the X Factor, so after the boys got off that show, it was I don't want to say it was an overnight success.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Boy band in the country, but it was just like, you know, a a band from Southern California that went on a show that then got off a show and was all of a sudden, you know, a a a large name in in the boy band scene, and we kind of instantly had diehard fans from the show and from people just connecting with with what uh we continued to I guess the boys continued to put out week after week.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so even with them though, that was like such a big risk because like they decided to put themselves out there getting on the show in the first place.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think Keaton was like 15 years old or something like that.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they were young old.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: They were young.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: They took this big giant risk that was very unique to the shows is that they played an original song because they were like, no, this is who we are, this is what we want to do.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: We are such powerful songwriters and put that in front of everybody, and that really won.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that was such a great model for them to be like, this is just who we are, this is what we do.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I totally agree.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and to to in this day and age, I mean, when when I was growing up, and you guys I'm sure remember, getting your music out there was literally burning CDs, walking the warp tour line, hand in headphones, one by one by one, right?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many tools out there now, DistroKid, where you can get your music out onto every major platform and have people at least hear it, give you feedback and learn.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the early days, as you mentioned, when you started playing drums and jamming with people, yeah.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: There's something I think very powerful to be said about getting in a garage and just kind of sucking for a while and falling on your face and learning from that.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, going back to the to the word viral, what would you say to the youth that might think that it should be an overnight success and doesn't want to, you know, have that patience to go through the maybe year or five years that it takes to actually have a sustainable career?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um man, I mean, for me, going back before Emblem 3, before I was I was more in the mainstream, I was playing those tours where you're you know you're sleeping on couches or some nights slept on the floor of uh you know parking lot outside a venue.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you just kind of have to go through that grind and that experience.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the biggest thing is I I loved it and I realized I loved it.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: So then that's when I kind of switched my mentality of like, okay, if I can do it like this and fall in love with it, you know, by any means necessary, I'm gonna I'm gonna make it happen.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Everything else is bonus from that point forward.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Everything else is bonus.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's just what you do with your day, and I'm already content and cool with that as is.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And as those things continue to stack and that pressure builds, and those things get bigger, or you get better, like it's all bonus.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think that uh again, I keep going back to this, but the start thing, you know, it's not gonna happen right away.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's I don't care who you are, you know.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Even the boys going on that show, it's not like one you know, week one, they're all of a sudden this household name.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: It was still continuous build and build.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, I think that it's it's a mentality of uh just not doing it for that reason either.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, don't try to look for virality, just put your art out there, put out something that you believe in, put out something that is true to you.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um and if it's unique enough and if it's truly connecting with other people, it will.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: Don't try to like go after this and chase this viral hit or this viral moment.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because I I also think that you also don't want to bite off too much or more than you can chew.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Say you you do get a viral hit, and then all of a sudden, you know, the next three aren't viral.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you don't you don't want to disappoint yourself either.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: You kind of have to fall in love with the journey, is what I would say.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't wish early viral success on my worst enemy.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because you are typically not set up for it.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have the foundation of the fall in the city.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Just talking about that.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a very dangerous situation to be in.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: You may have a little bit of a team, maybe that team's not ready to handle it.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you do, but like setting those foundations, going through those grinds is so important.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like setting up the real team, making sure that you have your riots ownership, maybe you have an actual record to build.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you don't have those set up, like I I've seen a handful of like massive viral launches from like track one.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's an 80% drop-off rate in viral success.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, one case study, I had an assistant that had uh an artist that she had brought to me, she had a cool song, she had recorded a couple friends, she had I think 160 monthly listeners.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: She did a teaser of this audio and it instantly did 30 million views, and she had 60,000 song saves on this song, and by the time it released, she had 12 million monthly listeners on this first track.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: She's sitting at about 1.5 today, didn't really have a follow-up track for it.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: The song immediately went to today's top hits all over the radio, all over the world, but the team crumbled and fell apart because she didn't have anything to follow up with, didn't have a record deal, didn't have like a booking agent, didn't have the support that's required to really take care of those things.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like you really have to learn how to run your own business first and set yourself up for those moments.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't count on that.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, everyone's journey is so different.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's no proven way on how to create a successful business.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: It really comes down to what makes you happy and what you consider as a happy business model that you're really good with.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've got bands right now that I've got an artist right now, Kami Kyo, really, really wonderful example of somebody that has done it by any means necessary.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, this is what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And she sits down and she cuts, colors, edits all of her own footage every single day.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: And if she's not shooting new footage or recording a new song, she's sitting there in the room cutting her footage for the next post every single day as a ritual and a routine, and has built a business in that.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she wakes up every single day and she asks me, What's going on?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: I have this idea, how can we do this?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: This girl's 22 years old.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she's been playing for I think 12 years or something with you know, she had a band with her sisters, uh, she knew at a very young age that this is what she was gonna do for the rest of her life, but she has given herself absolutely no room to fail because she's never stopped trying.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and that has been something that we've had to work really hard on now, because yes, now she has some very insane viral success, and that has been an incredible weapon as we've developed those foundations, but coming in as a manager, it was like, okay, we have to set these foundations because right now, like, she she had a viral track that really didn't convert super heavily over to streaming right away.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And now, as we as I came into this, it's like, okay, we have to set up this to win, and we have to build a net so we can build a data collection, build a relationship with the fan base, start to build uh an honest connection with the with the fan base, figure out how to sell shows, figure out how to sell tours, figure out how to sell merch, you know, because with virality specifically, there's no guarantee that you'll ever reach that person ever again because of how the algorithm works, because of how social media works.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: You have to pay to advertise to those people unless you've collected that data.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and so the very first thing we did was set the scene.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we got her with an incredible record label team, we got her with an incredible, she already had an incredible booking agent, we built out a bunch of incredible shows, a bunch of incredible touring, a bunch of brand new records, and then started to build a data collection and and cast that wide net so that as she released those records, all of a sudden it was sustainable.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And she was building a real relationship, an honest conversation with those people, and starting to give them reasons or starting to uh bring them into her universe more importantly, you know, and and that's a very difficult, tricky thing to do, I think, for big big managers today, for big artists today.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: I work with uh a handful of acts, I do a lot of marketing as well, and there are so many artists that are just not willing to get on camera, they're not willing to create an honest conversation with like their fans, they're not willing to really connect with them at all, you know, and those things are are really difficult, especially for big bands today that need a full production in order to get on camera or communicate or because the fans can tell right away if this is not an authentic voice, if they're if they're not really making the posts, if you know they're not really sending the emails, like there's such a big difference there.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I've got really small acts that like have done really big merch drops that like you know, another great example was a death metal band that I was working with.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: They were Death Western, there was a singer that had this really incredible, unique vision.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: He wrote an entire book to go with the album that he was putting out.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: We built toy army like action figures to go with it.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we put the action figures in a music video, and then we took everybody that had bought a single from Bandcamp because he had maybe 500 Facebook page likes and like 4,000 Instagram followers, and we put together I think I think it was 500 copies of vinyl, a bunch of merch, all these action figures and all these books, and then we just pulled all the emails from everybody that had bought something on Bandcamp previously, built a pro a password-protected website with all the merch, and sent a thank you note and said, Hey, this is the next step in my journey.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: I had him write out the entire thing himself, like this is the next step of what I'm doing, this is what I've been working on, this is who I've been working on it with, this is the vision, and I want to give you access to this early because you guys have already been supporting on this, and I want to make sure that you get that chance first.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we sent that out 72 hours in advance, sent the password out to them, and then sold out 50% of all the vinyl in the first 24 hours.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: The very next day went in and we're like, hey, we're doing this, posted it publicly on social online.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you sign up for the email list, like I want to send this to you first.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is everything that's in there.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Sold out 75% of everything.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then by the time the day that we launched it on day one, we're 100% sold out on the actual drop within the first hour.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and that was a guy, again, like it was like a$12,000,$13,000 merch drop on his first merch drop ever.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because we went activated on those fans, built a loyal relationship and conversation with them, be like, you know, this is us.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is us in here doing this together, and like it's different business models for everybody, and that's sustainable for them, you know, and and that starting at that ground one zero like level, as they continue to scale, they have a solid foundation of real fans.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you get the huge viral success early, and you have to go back and try to figure out who's a real fan.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's different for everyone.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love that, man.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I often, in my journey with the drum brand and being in the music industry, I often think about it as a web.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people in business think about it as a ladder.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta climb the ladder.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And meeting you earlier this year, and now meeting you, and just immediately coming and sitting and chatting.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what it's about, whether it's the fans for your art or you know, behind the scenes, the industry connections that you make.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it's all about.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, for the youth listening, go introduce yourself, share your ambitions and your passions.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Something's going to happen from it.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna cast a wide net, you're gonna create this web of resources and connections that you can call on and and grow and then build that fan base and meet people like you and meet people like you and get gigs and just go for it and chase it again one step at a time.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I love what you said, Jack.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Man, just fall in love with the journey.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's the journey, dude.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's what it is.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: And like meeting people like you guys is like for me the best because it's like I just I love being in this industry and chasing my dreams and making this stuff happen and that that web you can grow.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's just unbelievable where you can go with it.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: We'll do something in the next year where it's just like dude, high five, man.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy we got to connect, and we probably wouldn't have had I not connected with you at NAM, you know?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: So go go do things, chase your dreams and and just connect with people, man.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: What does it mean for you guys one at a time to be loyal to your craft?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: What does that word mean to you?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or that saying, rather, sorry.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, when I hear loyal to your to the craft or your craft, to me it's just never give up.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you kind of made, for me at least, I'd made an ode to myself that this is what I was gonna do with the rest of my life.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: And uh whatever it takes, you know, and in the sense of just don't give up.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be hard.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're gonna have moments and years and months that are gonna be really incredible and exhilarating, and you're gonna feel like it's gonna last forever.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, it's not.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care who you are, what band you are, what musician you are, that feeling is so fleeting.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: And just know that it's it's a journey and to just keep going because you know, you know what you want to do and and what you feel like God puts you on this earth to to do, and just don't don't stop.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Man, it's such a great question.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, and and Jack, I think you really hit the nail on the head.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like it really is by any means necessary.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, just don't stop.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're gonna go through the craziest seasons of your life and the ups and downs.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I think radal radical acceptance of those ups and downs, regardless, you know, is is the difference.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you truly radically accept that this is just what you do and you're gonna go through those seasons, then you can also accept the highs and the lows.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: The highs is bonus and the lows is manageable because this is already just what your journey is, and you trust that that's supposed to be how it is, and just keep showing up.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: All said, baby.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, incredible, dude.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you guys so much.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: They we were hoping we had so much on the schedule, locked in times.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: We were like, we just can't wait for the random just drop-ins.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you guys for doing this.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: This this was incredible.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's so good to meet you, dude.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was, bro.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna do some cool stuff together for sure.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Kyle, same man.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: We had some awesome conversations this weekend.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, again, to the to the youth and to the parents in the community out there, this is possible.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: You can do exactly this.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: The journeys are far and wide, and fall in love with the journey, man.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I love that.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you guys.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Real quick, just to close up the beginning of how we started here.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I showed that video to my parents of Emblem Three and then moved out to California.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Jack moved in with me.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: We were sleeping in the same, we were sharing the same bedroom.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is such a crazy story.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like a month or two into it, he went on this hike, and he's like, I just met this guy.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: He sings in this band, Emblem Three, and he's coming over right now.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Dude.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I just couldn't believe it.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really just that acceptance of like, I am going to find raw and undeniable talent, and I put that out into the universe.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if anybody's watching, and I don't know if you believe in the universe or God or whatever it is, I don't know what's going on, but for some reason, when I put out that that's what I was gonna do, suddenly the universe just put that directly in my bedroom.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Walked into my own bedroom within months.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, I'll add to that actually.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: We were there.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was there.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: I was there, but I want to I want to add to this.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: I know this is a long ending, but this is this is a manifestation, baby.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: So the manager that found me on YouTube, and we can get into that another day.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's how my whole journey really started.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: I was in different bands growing up, traveling, touring.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: When I was 16 until 18, I was in a few different bands that did like national tours, and then started a YouTube channel and got found on my YouTube channel by the manager that he went and worked with and was living with.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: But before this whole YouTube thing even started, my thought was if I can start a YouTube channel and get this guy to see it, my life would be changed forever.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: Also, fast forward, my family used to watch the X Factor.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I have four brothers and a sister, you know, big musical family.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: We'd sit down every Sunday, whenever it was on, I can't for I can't remember, but and we'd watch the X Factor, and I verbatim told my parents, I was like, I forget your story with your mom.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: It blows my mind because I told my dad, I was like, if I ever meet them, I feel like we'd be best friends, and I would be like I would be a perfect drummer for them.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then you fast forward four years.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Insane.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: Now I've been their drummer for 11 years, you know.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's insane, dude.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can't make it up.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: But the whole thing of like, I had this vision, I had this dream, and I wrote it down.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: I I said, okay, what managers would I want to see before the YouTube video, the YouTube universe that I created even existed out in the world, I had it like visually in my mind of like, okay, I'm gonna start this YouTube channel.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: These are the people that are gonna reach out to me.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: And literally, one of the guys on my list hopped in my email, had less than 10,000 views on that video.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like it was a viral video, back to virality.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be viral, you just have to put yourself out there.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I did, and and I had a vision for it, and it literally, I guess, yeah, I, you know, I'm a believer in in God, and and I just feel like he blessed me with this incredible opportunity to like live out that vision.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, having a vision, journaling, manifesting.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: When Loyal to the Craft started, I knew Kevin Lyman from the Warp Tour days, and when I snuck in and met him, and he gave me opportunities.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And one day I watched Red Bull did a documentary on Steve Van Doren from the Van Shoe Company.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: So cool.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I got chills.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: I said, man, I want to meet this guy.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I have to, he's like Willy Wonka to me.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: He's like Willy Wonka.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was just saying he's still Willy Wonka to me.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I emailed Kevin Lyman.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hey Kevin, like, could you please introduce me to somebody at Vans?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: I want to make a checkerboard drum kit.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Kevin writes back immediately talking about community and putting yourself out there.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Two minutes later, Kevin Lyman CCs me with Steve Van Doren.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Steve happened to be in Boston the next day at the Boston skate park.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: I went, told him my ambition to create opportunities for the youth in music.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Steve gives me his phone and he's like, here, take these numbers, call them.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: I meet the VP at the time of Vans, Mitch Whitaker.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: He's a drummer.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: He built Vans Asia.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Loved drums, loved everything that I was telling him that my ambitions were.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: He really helped me create loyal to the craft and the foundational elements of that in a big way.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: The pandemic hits, the dream of what I was doing and traveling kind of went away.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: I focused on the business a lot more.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: I moved to a new state.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was all out of whack and I was manifesting one day during a full moon.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really into astrology and so full moon.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, all right, I'm I I have to I have to do loyal to the craft again.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like I gotta figure out a way to make it go.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking of Mitch.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: I hadn't talked to him in a bit because he moved back to Japan to do Vans Asia again.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: He's no longer in California, no longer a three-hour difference.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking of Mitch during the peak of the full moon.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: My phone starts going off.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Mitch Whitaker FaceTimes me and he goes, Yo, Mike, the universe just told me to call you.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even sure.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: I love when this stuff happens.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I'm like, dude, I literally was just beaming to the universe, to you over in Japan.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: I I I want I need help.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like I need I need the next step and momentum to create loyal in the next movement.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then I met the media team that I'm working with now that's helping make the vision happen.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the universe works in crazy ways.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Be passionate, be patient, put yourself out there, put your manifestations out there, and dude, success happens slowly but surely, man.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the slower our way, I think, is the better way.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the time.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: The patient way.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't even have to be slow or fast.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think the timing is irrelevant.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the patience and the loyalty to the craft.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: I want to say this.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: We could talk all night and then we'll stop.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: But uh listening to these stories, you know, what it comes down to, I think, is just believing it can happen, believing in yourself.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Radical acceptance.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Even if there's no sort of like vision outwardly or physically manifested in front of you yet, but believing that it's coming, that's that's where you start, I think.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, let's go back to that.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Man, this is awesome.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: You guys roll, dude.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we we this is not the last time we're gonna talk.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we won't talk with microphones next time, but yeah.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: This is awesome, man.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so stoked to be connected to both of you guys.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for bringing him over, man.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Mike.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: This is so sick.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yo, what's up?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's Jack Mudd from Emblem 3.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is Kyle Hewlett from Cupid Theory Management.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: And this is loyal to the crowd.