Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 263: Free Casting in Coon Country

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Ep. 263: Free Casting in Coon Country · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is Me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by on X Hunt creators are
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: where you stand with on X Clay Nucome tell tell
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: everyone in the story about when you were hunting that
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: buck and you had them all, you know, watching them
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: all those years. This deer right here, I don't know, no,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: the one that you found out he was dead when
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: you're down at the pawn shop. Oh, that's an interesting story.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: So I was hunting this deer that I called Moose,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: and I had pictures of him from the time. It
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: was a year and a half old. And the only
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: reason I knew, you know, a year and a half
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: old is pretty indistinguishable a year and a half old. Fuck.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: I think because we're not like a hardcore, super hardcore
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: white tail podcast that when we say I've been hunted
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: deer that I called moose, Okay, I'll get there, there
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: you go, you will thank you. Yeah. Well, I don't
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: understand what origin and I don't even know the damn
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know this part of the story, but I
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: can tell you what it would be. Karin te you
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: know what, It's so easy you're gonna ask me. It's
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: so easy to Seth will tell you why the deer
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: was so big. It reminds you ester. I don't come on, dude,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: it probably had palmated andlers. Stevennel and nailed it. Seth
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: nail gave you a layup dudels. Remind you of a moose? Yeah,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: okay out incess defense. Incess defense. Sam Longern has a
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: big black lab named moose. Moose, but that dog doesn't
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: have antlers. True, but what isn't the characteristic of a moose?
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: That is sometimes an attribute to any deer hunter that
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: goes around name and deer and watched him since they're
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: one and a half years old, is I can he's
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: fixated on antlers. He fetishizes. He's an antler fetishizer. So
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: this deer, basically I got him. I'm still talking about this.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: He's an antler fetishizer. And so when I hear that
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: the deer was named moose, okay, let's say I said
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: to you, and we called this buck red stag, right,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: what would you picture. I'd be like, let me guess.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Let me guess it had a crowned time. Let's say
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: we called this old buckle unicorn. I'd say, let me
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: guess we called this buckle rabbit ears. I'd be like,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: let me guess. Ears look like a rabbit. No, antlers
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: look like a rabbit's ears. Anyway, So their herds pawn shop.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: It wasn't the way. That's good, you nailed that's Steve Palmatian.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: But what was unique about this deer? So when he
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: was in a year and a half old deer, Rick
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Smith would be distinguishable by the body size, by the
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: mass of the antlers. So this is a very small deer.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Because I'm like, because Rick doesn't know and so he
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: damned her knows what liver mush is. Well, I do
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: know that that sounds like another story. Well, I, oh,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: you weren't the real quick I'm gonna I'm gonna say
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: this and I'm suing the I'm gonna say this that
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I'm shutting up. Sure, I used to think that Rick
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: always knew everything. Then I went through a bree period.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: I thought he didn't know everything. But yesterday I proved
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: we're trying to talk about scrapple. He got talking about
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: liver mush. We all had a good heart. You laugh
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: at Rick's expense. You don't know scrapple from a hole
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: in the ground. And then it turns out that he
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: was right, because liver mush is basically scrapple with a
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: little livery. So anyhow, there you are. You're at the
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: pawn shop. Good job. So year and a half old deer,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: we're back there again. This deer had incredible palmaction. For
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: a year and a half old deer usually thin horned,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: you know, like horns and stin as your finger. This
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: deer had like I was, I'm looking for a picture
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: on my phone. Year and a half old deer had
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: like four or five inches of palmacian on his right
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: tiny antler as like a six point okay, look like
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: a moose. Yeah, I said that, dear looks like a moose.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: The next year, I actually man the story, Steve. If
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: you want like the five minute version, I'll give it
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: to you. There's like a fifteen minute version. I mean,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: we seven, not that I don't like the story, even Clay.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: It's okay, actually it's not. But my my thing hasn't
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: adjusted at this time. You know, when you're talking to somebody,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: I think it's good to count like on the front end,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: go give me this version of that story. Check this out.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: I know I was gonna show is this my time? No?
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: But this on your time. But it has to do
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: with this. Remember how saying I wanted a thing that
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: everybody would have a dial? Yeah, yeah, and there's a
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: light in the middle, and if people are not very interested,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: they could turn their dial down and the light dims,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: and then you know that you're not being very interested.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: A guy is making with one of those. He sent
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: me some pictures of the prototype, and it escalates. It's
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: like the color changes. But and he's gonna put six
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: dials on it. Everybody. I'd have that light right there
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: right now. You'd be talking about that ball, and I'd
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: be cranking that sucker way up. I have I recognize
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: this buck as a year and a half old deer.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: The second year the deer comes back, he had such
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: distinct antlers. I was able to recognize him again as
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: a two and a half year old deer. I'm not
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: that interested in harvesting this deer because he's just a
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: young buck. But he's real distinguishable. Man around here, we
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: don't track bucks for years. Like in the Midwest, guys
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: have like seven years of history. Not here, man. Bucks
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: come and go, like you may get a picture of
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: a buck here two years and never see him again,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenny. They kind of like almost moved into your
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: house with not man. That is not common here. Third year,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: so the deer one and a half, two and a half.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Now the deer is three and a half. He blossoms
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: into like a hundred and thirty in ten point with
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: two kickers coming off g twos, which is a deer.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I'm very interested in three and a half year old deer.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Three and a half. Three and three and a half
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: year old deer out here is a target deer. That
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: same year, the deer breaks his front legs, both of them.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: The reason I know the US is because it's such
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: a long story. His when he was two and a half,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: his right front hoof was as big around as a
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: coke can, and he had a massive limp. The second year,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: when he's three and a half hundred thirty in double kickerbuck,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: his foot is continues to be as bigger aund as
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: a coke can. His left front leg is broke and
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: visibly has a huge knot midway up. The deer is
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: like scrawny as it can be. I'm certain the deer
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: is gonna diet three and a half because it's just scrawny.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: I hunt the deer, never see it from the tree stand.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: The deer blossoms into a hundred and forty five in
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: ten point with double kickers. The next year still looks
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: like a moose. I see the deer a mile away
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: from my house. No, no, the deer. The deer no
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: longer carries its palmation. I'm driving one day, see the
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: deer a mile from where I originally knew the deer was.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: I know that the deer is using this certain farm.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: I write the farmer a letter and say, my name
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: is Clay Nucombs. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Go up and meet him a week later. I got
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: a little system, can I can I ask real quick
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: when you laid off for him? Did you lay off
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: for him? You like? I feel that's that's like a moral,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: that's a hard moral. SPOT told him that there was
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: a deer that on his farm. I wanted to hunt
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: out that is honorable. You were like, I have no
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: reason to believe there's a deer of any size. I
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: had a property though I would like to nickname moves. Now,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: now listen this this so you can learn something from
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: is that nobody ever asked I got a hunt his
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: property because it was not a good place to hunt.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Where did this deer live there? You see what I'm saying,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: scrawny little patches of timber, a lot of stuff going
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: on around like it was not the place like the guy,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: I don't think anybody had ever like asked him hunts
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: a small property. Well I started getting I'm using trail
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: cameras by this time, I started getting pictures of the
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: deer on that farm, just like I knew I would.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: And that year I saw the deer from the stand
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: two different times in the late winter. And you'd know
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: him coming because he he looked like he was he
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: was broken down. You see him coming across the field.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: You can't see this, ladies, gentlemen at home and play
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: did a walk? Like if you watch Young Frankenstein his assistant,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah again you know kind of get no no no
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: like for a deer. Yeah, like Young Frankenstein, like his assistant. Yeah,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: hitch hitching the step, some swagger this this time, this
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: deer's hunt five inches, which around here deer of a
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: maybe not a lifetime, but very few people kill hunting
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: for around here. I don't kill the deer. One time
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: I had him within thirty yards, almost drawn him. Didn't
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: kill him. The net next year the deer survives. He
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: is he is broken down, small, he goes down. And
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: this is what you wouldn't believe unless you see the pictures,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: which there's this article in North American Whitetail about this
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: deer that I wrote and hadn't published, all documented that
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: deer went dropped down to a hunt. I found the
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: sheds rick hold on, I found the sheds of the
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: four Next the next year, the deer was, presumably so
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: unhealthy his rack dropped to a clean hundred and thirty
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: eight point. The only reason I would have known it
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: was the same deer is because the stinking broken legs
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: the deer was extremely recognizable. He weighed about a hundred
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: and forty pounds average buck around here, big buckways one
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: sixty eight. This deer is like super small, broken up
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: white antlers. Just you just you just learn these deer.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: I'm getting there, Steven, No, I I've given up. You
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: got a minute anyway, Okay, but no, I don't care.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: I'm so. I'm so. He's a hundred and thirty inches
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: about buck. I hunt him like he's a boon and
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Crockett trying to kill him. Don't see him one time
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: the whole year. From the stand, I find his shed horns.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: The farmer found one and I found the other, so
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: I've got two sets of matching shed horns. The next year,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: I get a picture in summer velvet. I've got on
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: my phone of a deer that I do not recognize
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: because if first just get the horns. And I text
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: my father in law and I say, I've got a
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: two inch deer on camera, text him this picture. I
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: cannot believe it, and I keep scrolling through the pictures
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: and then I see the dearest whole body and it
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: is moose and he has I know this because I
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: scored the deer. Later you're gonna spoiler spoiler alert. He
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: had thirty one points. He freaked out. He had the
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: same frame. He went from a and this white tail. Guys,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: just believe it, because it's true. He went from a
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: hundred point to a deer that I grow scored at
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: either or one. I hunted that deer like crazy Rick
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: that year. I mean, like, why is this part directed
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: to Rick? Just he's engaged? Man, I my body still
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: stings from the cold hunting that deer. And I'm serious,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: like it almost burned me out from late winter bow
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: hunting because I just pounded it so hard that the well,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: the year before. I'm getting ahead of myself. When he
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: was a hundred when he when he became the big deer,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I was hot on his tail, hot on his tail. Actually, man,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: it's too deep of a story, but I should have
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: killed him one day. Didn't. There's a big buck contest
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: over here, and he's telling you can tell me what
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: happened there. Well, okay, I go up to the farm
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: one day to hunt. Point he's telling me that's not Rick. Now,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: m I go to the farm to hunt, and I've
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: been getting It's early in the season, it's like October.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: The four and the bucks were still in groups, and
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: that buck had been running with a buck that I
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: called con con stood for consolation prize. It was a
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: thirteen point buck. Yeah, yeah, I don't think he would
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: have picked that one out, Steve. I was trying to
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: think of some kind of thing to be consistent. But
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: the deer, so Cohn, is a stud buck that if
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: he would be hanging on this wall so like. And
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: I was at a stage in my bow hunting careers
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: like I can't let con walk by. It wasn't just
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: an incredible year for horn growth, which we have here.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Some years are great, some of years aren't. I go
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: to the farm to hunt and I see four bucks
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: standing up in the corner of the field, and I
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: know what they're about to do. They're they're bedded over here.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: They just popped out. They're about to walk through the
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: pinch point that my deer stands in and walk right
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: by me. I watched him walk back into their bedding area.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: I scuttle up the hill getting my stand, and I'm
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: not kidding. An hour and a half later, here comes
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: a line of bucks coming through the woods, just gonna
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: walk right under me. I get an eye on all
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: of them, and I know that Moose is the lead.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I don't see it, but I'm guessing that Moose is
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: the final buck in the in the in the in
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: the line. It's like a foaking horn a six point
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: and it ended up being four bucks, and the last
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: buck was con and I could see way behind him
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: and Moose wasn't there. I was just like, God, it
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Moose in there. I felt like I could kill Kahn
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: and extract him without without messing up Moose, like I
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: wasn't gonna mess up the whole hunt for this consolation
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: prize with me. Man hey. I tried to get Spencer
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: new Heart to let me write a story on how
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: to grunt stop a deer, and he wouldn't do it because, listen,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: I learned those your funnel right under me. It's what's spend.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: What's Spencer's problem? He just he just didn't think it
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: would be of interest for to learn how to grunt
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: stop a deer. And I got some good intel on it.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've done it a long time, but I
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: got I don't like running around doing this, but I'm
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: gonna do it right now. When we get done here,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: you call Spencer and you tell him that you just
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: got that article commissioned. Fist bunk call. I'll call him.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Just you call him, I'll call him. So I'm sitting
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: here in the stand full draw or not full drawing,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: just sitting there waiting birds three buck, and I decided
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna shoot Khan four buck. He's like at seven yards.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I'm about eighteen feet up in the tree draw the
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: bow back. He has no clue I'm in the world.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: I'm leaning the tight angle. He's walking because he's in
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: this line, and I'm back grunt stop him. I was
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: so close to him that it spooked him and he
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: he he spun and looked at me and spinning and
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: looking up as though the sun just exploded. And I
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: had I had the pin right behind his shoulder. Shot
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: and he ducked the string because he was on red
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: alert because of the grunt stop, and it went right
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: through the top of his back straps. Didn't he barrels
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: out of there. We tracked the deer. I get pictures
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: of the deer the whole rest of the year. Didn't
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: hurt him. Ara went right through the backstraps. He jumped
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: the string. So here's the lesson. When you're grunt stopping
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: the deer. Don't grunt stop a deer that's like five
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: yards from you, seven yards from you. If you do,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: you gotta do it because it's like you walk into
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: the dolls going yes, now if that deer is at
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: thirty yards, and and and the other thing is that
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: you gotta be at full draw before you grunt stop,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: like you gotta be ready. You can't grunt stop then
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: draw the bow. So don't give you don't give the
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: article away. I'm devastated that I mess up con because
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: then we had to go in and track the deer
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: and just blew the whole area. You know, we had
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: to do our due diligence. So we spent a day
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: tracking the deer. No blood, no no. I knew it
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: was okay, but I just want to make sure. Now
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: it's October nine, and if you kill a big buck
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: in this county, you take it down here to this
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: big buck contest like it's just guaranteed because they give away,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: like it's just where you go. I'm good friends with
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: these guys down at the pawn shop. I go down
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: there and I look at the leader board. They actually
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: have photos up on the leaderboard. I know this deer
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: like it's my own kid, you know. And I look
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: up on that leaderboard and there's a dude with moose
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: in the back of his truck standing there with moose
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: and I'm not kidding you. I felt like I was
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: punched in the face. I was just like, oh my god,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I can't believe. I mean, it was just like such
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: a distinct dear. I the punch out guys are my friends.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: And I just said, hey, give me that guy's phone number.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: They did. They gave me a cell phone number. I
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: called the guy. He doesn't know me from Adam, but
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I knew where he killed the deer. Just sway everything
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: laid out, I knew where this guy lived. And I said,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: my name is Clay nucom congratulations first of all on
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: your deer. Like I wanted him to know. I wasn't
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: upset with him. I said, if you got a minute,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I want to tell you a story, and I want
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: to come to your house. Time time frame on it,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Like you got five minutes, you got seven minutes. He
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: He's like, I'll give you six minutes, and uh, your
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: noise is a little late. He Uh, he was home.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: He was home, like right what. I called him and
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: I said, man, I'll be there, just give me a minute.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: I gathered up my sheds and took my laptop computer
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: over to his house and I sat on his back
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: porch with he and his girlfriend, and I walked them
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: through this whole story. He was a guy that bought
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: this property from Texas. The first time he ever hunted
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: the property. He killed that deer with a boat. Never
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: knew it was there. Jeez, and uh it had thirty
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: one scoreable points. It's been ten years ago this happened.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: I me and the guy became good friends. I gave
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: him the shed horns. I said, man, take these things.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: I don't even want them. They're yours. They deserve they
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: because the shed horns tell an incredible story of antler development,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: because the deer, the deer went up, went down and
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: then made uh seventy inch jump or not seventies sixty
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: inch antler jump. But so anyway, I mean stuff, you
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: learned a lot from stuff like that. Man, I mean
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: just even even dealing with like he get too caught
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: up in a deer like sounds like he can. Well,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: but since that time, I've been less vested in the
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: deer I'm hunting. I'm just like and I was never
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: I just want to say I was never mad at
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: the guy. I mean, like, man, good for him. Yeah
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: you did he did he? Uh, because you know he
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: didn't have a lot into it, right, like he just
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: got it? Did it? Did it sort of open him?
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, did he appreciate the sheds and stuff? He's
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: he's a good hunter, that's the thing he got. He
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: did get lucky, and he knows it, but he was
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: he was He hunted his whole life. He was a
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: good hunter, like and it made his He'll never kill
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: a buck bigger than that. He was thrilled it way
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: better than just some guy killing it just like well
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: killed a buck, like, yeah, great guy to kill it
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: for real? Is he still around here? He moved since then?
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: I still I still talked to him every now and then. Yeah,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: did he keep the property? Nope? Nope, sold great story.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Getting so invested into bucks like that is is tough.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: My brother in Wisconsin were after a buck named Saddam
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: after a while because he was so sneaky. They nicknamed
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: him Saddam and uh one about a minute now, I mean,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: how long did he didn't how long did he hide out?
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: I think I was hunting him for like Saddam wasn't sneaking.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: He got caught pretty quick. Remember they called him in
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: the spider hole, you'd call him bin Laden you probably
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: should have brushed up on your history a little bit.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Chester wore you brought that up, because I mean, when
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: did how long after the invasion did they did they
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: catch Saddam in the spider hole? You know, I don't know.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: They called Kaddafi in a drainage ditch, knowing a colvert
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: very quickly they called Saddam pretty quick. Oh now pol Pot, No,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: it was the pol Pot. He hit out a long
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: damn time. Anyways, Going anyways, they named himself. I could
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: provide you with a long list of dictators who held
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: out longer. Sure maybe it was a bad guy, bad
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: buck or something like. Uh they big deer hunted though
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: he maybe had crazy sunglasses. No, no, no, just big
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: deer um up a large mustache on the family farm.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: I knew where this deer bedded um just was invested
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: into this dear passed up. Other deer was hunting him
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: with a re curve bow. And uh, anyways, my brother
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Fenton went in on the wrong wind during gunn season,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: and you know in Wisconsin you got to try and
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: keep those deer on lockdown. And he was warned against
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: this kind of it was. It was right borderline wind,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: and I think I got done with work and he's like,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: where's where's Finny? And my Mom's like, he's out hunting.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: And I was like, where'd he go? You know? And
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: he wasn't in the wrong spot. Finney climbs up the
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: tree stand. Here's a deer. Get up. A couple of
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: minutes later across the road and I think Ike was
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: outside and like he heard some hooting holler and and uh,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Finny was just devastating. Ah, he's shrunk. He was probably
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: like one ninety and then he probably was like one
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: seventy high one seventies. Just a big deer, you know,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: like once once every five, six, seven years you might
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: see a deer in that area. But Ike was a
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: was bummed, but he was almost relieved, you know, in
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: a way. He's like, all right, now I can move on.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: And but then he refused to go over and look
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: at it and refused to go congratulate, like the the
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: lucky shooter. Yeah. If you know Ike, he's a man
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: of a few words, and he was just like, let
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: me see a picture. My dad went over and talked
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: to him, and uh, He's like, yeah, that was a deer.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: It is kind of weird how he he didn't go
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: over there, but he just was like, yeah, the deer's
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: dad moving on. I think my mom was more devastated
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: than any of the boys that that deer was gone
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: because he was just so invested in it. But mm
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: hmm uh Yehnny, can you feel everybody on the sturgeon deal?
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: We covered this, No, we didn't cover this at all.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: You gotta tell the whole damn story. I thought you're
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: gonna give an update, but I gotta tell the whole thing,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: and started with how you got tangled up in this
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: whole thing. I wouldn't say I'm exactly tangled up in
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: this whole thing, all right. Well, just about a year ago,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Miles Nolty and I and uh Ty, Emmett and who
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: else shot it with us. Mike Mike Lindon moved went
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: over to uh Fondolac, Wisconsin to spear sturgeon on the
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Great Lake Winnebago. And should I explain what that's all about?
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: You got two minutes, right, You put me way too
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: far back into history to get it this done in
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: two minutes. Ah. But yeah, there's this giant prehistoric old
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: fish called Lake surgeon that living like Winnebago and there's
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: a spearing season for him. One secon one SECONDE see,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: I want people to know that this is a true
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: crime story. It is this I just wanted I didn't
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: I didn't see it up. Well, it could be. It
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: could be its home podcast. It's a true crime story.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: We could if we were like most podcast companies, we
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: were turned it into this some eight episode long who
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: done it with cliffhangers. But here you get the you
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: get the dope quick, yeah, yeah, somewhere between minutes to
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: add a little bit to the front end of it,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: which Yanni denies, like he's clean, but like he is
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: sort of involved separation. Oh if he gets rolled up
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: in this and and all of sudden some people barge
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: in this door, cuff him and stuff him. Not surprised.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Another weird thing is is Chester's hometown. I was gonna say,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: I lift your shirt up. I guarantee he's wearing a wire. Yeah,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Jester might be a little closely related to this story
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: than I am. Jes are so slight. His wires is
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: that big headsets like, trust me, they'll never know. Right
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: here right now, Uh, sturgis spearing you. Uh you have
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: a fish shack and ice shack. It's very similar to
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: like the shacks you see you guys just doing fishing through,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: except you cut like a six by four foot hole
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: and uh put the shack over. And these shacks are
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: purpose made for uh spearing sturgeon. You got a big
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: old giant spear, I don't know, the sucker waves, probably
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: thirty pounds. It's got like well, they're heavy spears like that,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: nothing like a pike spear. No, you barely have to
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: really chuck them kind of push them. You can just
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: about drop them on and it'll it'll get into the
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: like pour molten lead in the handle that I don't know. No,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: I think it's just a big steal. Any who. So
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: we went and did it, and uh we actually did
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: it with some of Chester's extended family. His cousin, right
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: cousin cousin Jake helped us out, and um, he's he's
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: super into it. And out of our group there were
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: two sturgeon spirit I believe in three days, and Jake
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: and I actually each got to throw at a at
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: a at a fish but didn't get one, which in
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: the sturgeons about like our squirrel hunt. In the sturgeon spearing,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: uh are just fearing World two is really good. People
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: go years without speared. Is sturgeon exactly? Um? Yeah, I
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: was happy just to see one. So uh, the surgeon
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: have uh row in them if they're a female of
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: the right age class, and this rope can be turned
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: into caviar caviar eggs, I wouldn't have known what row was.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: I mean I do because I watched Yeah, yeah, fish eggs.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: It can be turned into caviare. Uh, caviar is very expensive.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: That's the one piece of information that I forgot to
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: check in on is exactly how expensive it is. That
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: do me a favor, just yes, see see what general
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: like Lake Lake surgeon caviare could go for. I don't
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: he might not be. I don't know. You probably came
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: and buy it because it's because there's no there's no
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: there's no actual market. Why you're probably under arrest. I
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: will be shortly. Well. The farms stuff, which is not
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: the real deal, can go for hunterbucks for eight ounces
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: American sturgeon cavar, So give a good ball apart. That's
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: that's that's farms, the wild stuff. I'm sure there's a
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: previous stuff that doesn't sound expensive. I thought it would
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: be that's a half a pound the river blueg gold
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Sturch and cavre. I don't know how one kilogram for
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: six thousand dollars. I don't know what. Let's just say
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: that to make it more interesting in the story. Yeah,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: real expensive, real expense. When you start talking about stuff
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: in kilo's yeah, you know you're talking about expensive stuff.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Um so a year later, well, let me back up
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: a little bit. The reason that I'm like more uh
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: raveled up or wrapped up in this a little bit
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: is because us for this fur hat ice Fishing Tour
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: episode that we did, we interviewed a fellow by the
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: name of Ryan Kernis, who is known at in Wisconsin
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: as the sturgeon General. He's the lead uh sturgeon biologist.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: That kind of ran like all the management of that
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: whole system, and that system is uh very healthy. It's
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: like it's them. It's the like the standard by which
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: all all others are are are trying to meet. And
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: not just in the country, but the world over. People
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: would like to have a surgeon fishery like they had
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: like a hundred years ago. They're nearly extirpated all over
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: the world and now here you have a place where
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: it's so good that you can, you know, have a
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: surgeon spearing season. Ah. He was very Ryan was very
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: helpful in helping us produce the episode, got us a
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: bunch of other interviews with great people. Um. He himself
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: gave us a good interview. Um. In general, we had
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: had good luck working with him. Well year later, right
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: before Surgeon season this year, it turns out that Ryan
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: was charged has been charged with basically dealing in bartering
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: of surgeon eggs. Yeah, so there's we don't know the
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: whole story yet, I'm guessing because they're probably withholding some
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: evidence as this thing kind of works its way through,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: So we don't know exactly what they're gonna say. But
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: what he's actually being charged with is uh more like
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: an obstruction because he supposedly lied a little bit about
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: what he was doing with the eggs or what or
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: how some of the people that were working underneath him
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: were in quotes, funneling the eggs from these check stations.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: So when you kill a surgeon, you bring it into
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: a check station. Uh, it's mandatory, and there's biologists there
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: that takes samples, they cut them open, they tell you know,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: male female, how old the fish is, um all this stuff,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: and that they're just collecting data. Well, supposedly there's a
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: couple of different sort of mechanisms that have been in
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: place for eggs to be sort of taken from there
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: in a casual way and then gone to processors. There
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: was supposedly like a cooler with a processor's name on it.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: When people and people and biologists would say, hey, if
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: you don't want the eggs, you're not planing on do
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: anything that takes the surgeon could keep the eggs, it's
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: not it's not why, well can you keep them all? Well?
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Because I mean some people just maybe don't like salty
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: fish eggs. Yeah don't. I know they don't have a
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: paddlefish that's a that's a valuable cavia and just friends
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: of mine that go snag paddlefish. A lot of the
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: people are like aware that people do, but there I
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: don't like caviar. I don't know, they don't they don't
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: want they want the steaks off the fish and they
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: don't care. So um yeah, anyways, he so Ryan's been
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: charged with it. Alongside there's also there's also three again
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: in quotations here caviar processors that have been charged for
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: bartering services for caviar. So the way it works, and
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: we've gone over this a lot, is that you could
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: offer to clean someone's caviar for him for free, give
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: them all the caviar or or or the eggs now
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: turned into caviar back to them. They could then, if
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: they want you, because they're your bodies or whatever, gift
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: you as much of that caviar as they wanted, or
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: they you could pay the processor to have your uh
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: road turned into caviar. But what you can't do is say,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: let's trade your services of cleaning for my process caviare.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: At that point, you're bartering in the eggs. So uh.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: We've talked about this bartering thing a fair bit. And
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: one of my favorite stories about bartering is a body
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: of mine was fishing. He was shrimping. This is in
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Washington State. He's shrimping and he's at the boat launch
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: and there's a guy coming in from fishing salmon okay,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: and they are like, oh, you got a bunch shrimp tails, Oh,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: you got a bunch of salmon, and just very casually
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: this story, if he emerges that they will do a
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: swap some shrimp tails for salmon flay. And there was
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: an undercover warden on that dock that did citations. But
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: fish for shrimp is not because they were bartering. He
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: could have said, like because one was given more than
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: the other, because it was four, because it's can't trade fish.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: There was a formal. But what you can do is
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: I could go to your house. I can go to
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: your house and I could be like, Clay, I just
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: got back from my fish. Act man, Uh, I love
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: to have here's some halibut. And you could you could say, like,
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: I just gotta you know, I just put the uh,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: pulled a bunch of tomatoes. Take some tomatoes back. I
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: know you love tomatoes. That's fine as long as we said, well,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: you know, I would give you some of my halibit,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: but what's in it for me? And you say, well,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: I happen to have some some home grown tomatoes, and
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: I say, oh, that sounds like a deal. So it's
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: just it's bartering. Okay, that makes sense. I mean, it's
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: just semantics, though, is it not. It's the quid pro
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: que of trading things. This for that, and all Americans
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: all the world essentially like if we went I mean,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: if we went turkey hunting and I killed a bear
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: and you killed a turkey, and I was like, hey,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: you take some bear meat home, and you were like,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: well take take a turkey breast. That's fine. Yeah, but
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: if you said if I'll trade you, we had not.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: I want to point this out now too, And we
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: point this out for but I want to keep because
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: we keep getting emails about it. To keep talking about it.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: I went to are you got a good place hold
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: around this sturgeon story? Me? Yeah. I went to uh
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: an attorney that represented Wilming fishing game for many years,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: and and and he said, we have only he could
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: remember he could recall no instance of the bartering and
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: trading prosecution outside of someone like really asking for it
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: and it being a broader package of violations. That's the
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: that's the situations when he could it's a bad guy
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: that they're trying to just stick it. Someone was just like,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: because I mean, how else would you I guess I
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: also to come up except for the body of mine,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: who were an undercover guy just hanging out of the docks.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Scene who's coming and going witnesses a formal offer of exchange.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm, like a pro like a provisional I'll do this,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: you do this. Wow, So is that what we're talking
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: about here? I mean, that's what we think happened. Now
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: if this guy lied, Well, so there's two, there's two separate.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: So there's the Ryan Canics thing going on, right where again,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: I don't think we know exactly all the evidence, right nobody,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: you can't reach HNA talk to him. But what he's
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: been charged with is that there that he like lied
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: about what was going on. And then he also has
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: wiped his DNR issued telephone. That's where it got weird
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: as they interviewed him, right, and then he waved this phone. Yeah, okay,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: So then these other there's I think there's three other
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: people not knowingly the other folks have been charged in
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: the Fondolack area for basically you know, well, I think
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: there's two that were charged with with processing the eggs
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: and then trading their services for finished caviar. And then
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: another fellow was charged for somehow get for basically serving
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: the caviar in a restaurant. So the thread goes deep.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Just like when I first heard of the story, I
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: heard that he was channel it to the Rooskis, which
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he was actually connected, so that
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: that that that titilated me. Yeah, and I've heard some
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: other things that we hadn't reported on, sort of like
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: stories that people have heard, and I don't think I
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: want to bring them up because it's just like they are.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: I have just I want to defend it. I heard
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: that I have read or see nothing that suggests anything
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: to do with any roost. It sounds good, though, but
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: I think I think it's worth noting that the real
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: like there might be people listening that would understand that
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: one of the pillars of the North American Mile of
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Wildlife Conservation is non commercial use of wildlife. That's just
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: real simple. Yeah, but it just gets complicate, like we
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: can't sell like I can kill it deer and sell it,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: but you can you can sell furs, you can sell
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: bear oil as a hairdressing. You cannot sell it as
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: a food. That's another podcast. You can sell beaver meat,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: you can sell like there's it's generally generally generally yes,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: but fur bears and there's all these other design but
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: generally yes, generally crect. So that's that's why you can't
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: just take a big surgeon filets eggs and sell its
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: eggs or trade it. So that that's the that's the crime. Yes, yeah,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: and that's what we're Yeah. So a couple of these
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: processors have been previously warned that the way that they
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: were doing it was illegal. Yeah, that titilates me, and
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: a sort of kept on, you know and doing their program.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Um y'all need to know. Yeah, needs like a subject
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: matter expert listening over here here, this is without notes.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: How much of this did you steal from Durkin? I mean,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know I had. It's all the same information,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I certainly to prepare for this, I read
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: his article. Did you do Did you do any original
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: research Johnny? Outside of me being there a year ago?
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Maybe a little bit. Yeah, I made I made one
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: phone call, but it was more just to see how
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: the sturgeon was going, the sturgeon fishing was going this year,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: and we just happened to talk about this a little bit. Yeah,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: which I'll tell you right now. It's what it is,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: and which is why it makes it like a controversial,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: contentious kind of a deal right now, Because as easy
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: as it is for all of us to do what
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: we all just said, say, hey take some tomatoes. Oh yeah, great, awesome,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: I brought you some halibit. Uh. It's it's very close
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: to being illegal, right, and and you can't trade these
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: things right and so um. I don't want to say
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: they're making an example out of it because it's illegal
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: and you can't do it right the laws of law.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: But that's the way these things work, though, is that
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: culture begins to establish itself and then at some point
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: they go enough is enough, and they pick somebody and
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: they nail them. I have had two people in two
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: different states right to me with proposals that they were
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: doing on their own nonprofity where they were looking to
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: set up wild game exchanges through a social community, a
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: social network community of participants. Was like, dude, you can't, like,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: you cannot do that. They're like, I have so much elk,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: I need some one of them. The guy one of
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: the guy with in the in the town we live in, Yeah,
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: wild game exchange. Yeah. So the local uh, I think
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: feeling a lot of people are like, oh, come on,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: why you gotta do this to these folks and you know,
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: put them through the ringer. You know so much good
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: has been done by you know, these people for the surgeon,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: because all these people that are involved in this have
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: also been very um active in sturgeon preservation preservation restoration
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: for a long long time. And uh, they feel that
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: it's like making a big deal out of a yeare
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: you're going to talk about the older couple who you
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: know some stuff? Well, yeah, that's why I just decided
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: to like to limit my I had to cut it
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: off at some point, otherwise it's going I'm not trying
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: to tell that part. Yeah, just because I don't know,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: I just didn't seem like it. We needed to know
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: who exactly these people are. You know, we're talking about
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: who's you know what the problem is? Because that was
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: and really quick just having grown up in that area.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: If you know, Wisconsin Nites very great. A lot of
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: them are just great, very great people with no ill intentions.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: You find that not to be true in the other
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: four nine states. No, but it would be like you
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: could go over there right now and you probably run
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: into somebody on the street and they'd be like, hey,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: can you come over here and get the leaves out
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: of my gutter? And my mom will trade you for
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: a couple of rhubarb pies, you know, like and tell
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: tell your wild game. No, but I'm just saying like,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: it's just like always these little um culture of Barterine.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: Just a little crime break, but not not even not
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: even like it's a community. They don't know they're doing it.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: They don't know them patchwork held together by the Commission
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: of Small Crimes. Yes, it's just people being nice doing
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: crimes that they don't know that they're doing. Yeah, and
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: I welcome to rural America. Like, yeah, So she was
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: having a problem with the old man, and I'm a
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: good neighbor, so I shot him. Just that's just the
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: community we live in. That would be knowing here's a pie.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: I know what you mean. I'm with Chester, I'm with you.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: It's like I'm just teasing you. I mean, the law
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: is the law at the end of the day. So
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: that's that's what it comes down to. But people trying
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: to be good people is what I think a lot
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: of this, maybe not on Ryan's side, but on some
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: of the other folks side. I think that that could
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: have been the case. I'm gonna editorialize here in moment,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: and I don't know anything beyond what Yanni just told me.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: I'm like these people, but to editorialize a little bit segment, Yeah,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: this is this the opinion segment. You and he gave
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: the facts, I'll give the opinion. And I don't even
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: really know. I could see it's easy for me to
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: envision if I like lived here and understood this all.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: It's easy for me to envision coming to that the
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: conclusion of uh really really in terms of the the
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: extent of the press coverage even and we're we're adding
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: to the problem right now that it it's like unless
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: if the story was that people were going out out
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: of season, okay, or like or or um fabricating permits
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: or committing wire fraud. To let me slip something in here,
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: is that like if can eggs all of a sudden
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: is caught with like an extra fift k that no
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: one knows where it came from. Yeah, and he's got
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: like three dead surgeon in his trunk. Honestly, you know something.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: But you could just picture one of being that there's
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: just during the season, there's this mad rush of all
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: these freaking eggs, right and over the years it just
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: has kind of become the some jars eggs get scattered
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: around and and everybody feels like they're promoting sturgeon and
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: looking out for the resource and we're not out like
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: killing them just to carve eggs out of them. And
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean I could just see that. You
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: would be like, man, they were being wrong. They need
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: to be putting their place. But it's getting a little crazy,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: the reporting and the yeah, because the fines are pretty
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: happy to forget the dollar amount, but I want to say,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: like it's like up to nine it's nine months in
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: prison something like that, you know, with like you know,
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: tens of thousands of dollars and fines. Mhmm, yeah, yeah,
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: it'll be it'll be interesting, you know. I hope that
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: it can be resolved in a way where the folks
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: that did the wrong understand and will you know, change
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: their ways, and um, you know that the public that
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: is looking at this will also go Okay. That was
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: educational for me too. I know what I can and
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: cannot do and I won't you know, participate and stuff
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: like that. A couple of years ago, I don't think
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: we ever reported on this too much, but a couple
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: of years ago it was a guy there's a you know, uh,
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: I don't want to name who he is. There's a
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: hunter who does a lot of outdoor media and all
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: over the news one day like it and not the news,
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: but sort of like in the text message hunting's you know,
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: sphere and on blogs and stuff is like, oh, it's
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: a poacher, got caught poaching. Hunt license all over plasure
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: here was so and so huntment, no license and the
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: wound up being he had a license, hunting had. What
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: he didn't have is his five dollar archery stamp. He
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: didn't have his five dollar archery stamp which he was
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: eligible to have purchased. So he had his certificate number
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: for the bow, Like what is that that the national
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: the sort of nationally recognized. Yeah, that the archery safety class,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: but hadn't so he had bought his like six and
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: some odd dollar out permit but didn't get the five
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: dollar archery enhancement. But right, and people get really excited
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: about this stuff and you look into it and it's
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: you know, you're kind of like I have a feeling
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: that he wasn't Like I'll show I just found a
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: way to save five dollars. They'll never catch me, you
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. It happens. Yeah, yeah, he's not
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: a poacher. Yeah, it happens where people get really excited
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: about this kind of stuff. So but the phone deleting, Yeah, yeah,
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: there's some shady stuff and the phone is a little
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: I think we'll know more and we'll just a dirty
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: sound of word. But this is not dirty. Nothing wrong
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: with that word. But man, does it sound dirt. I
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: wonder what the outcome would have been if there wasn't
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: any hint of malice. Like, I don't know, I don't
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: know this guy at all. I just I just would
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: bet my truck that he's a good guy that wasn't
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: trying to do anything wrong. But the whole delete the
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: phone thing, like maybe he's just a stupid criminal. Maybe
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: he's been the best guy his whole life and then
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: realized he was a little bit of trouble and then
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: did something stupid. When a good criminal who's been a
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: criminal their whole life, we're known not to do that.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not defending the guy been like he'd
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: have been like can't text, I'll call Yeah, yeah, so
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: when I'll call you from a pay phone. Yeah, that's
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: what the good criminals do. You know, if there's a story.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: That's all right now. I feel like it came out before,
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: though I don't really understand this. Someone check into this
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: for me because Kran pointed it out to me, and
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: it's here in my notes. The does every year. This
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: does every year the squirrel hunting contests in New York
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: by the German Sportsman's Association. They try to shut down
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: their squirrel hunting tournament. Oh so February, the German Town
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Sportsman Association has their annual squirrel hunting tournament seven years running.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: I should go. I'd like to go hunt this tournament man.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Seven years running? Teams or is it solo? They're getting
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: death threats, They're getting vulgar phone call and they are
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: not going to shut down their squirrel hunting contest. Keep
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: it alive. Man. All the meat gets used. They use
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: it for their fundraiser, they use it for the banquet.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: The argument against it is this killing in the name
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: of fun and family bonding seems contradictory. They've never been
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: squirrel hunting because boy, is it fun and do you
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: get to do some bonding? They want them to replace
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: it with something that promotes family values. What do they suggest?
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: A beef steak? Does that pose family values? Yeah? If
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: they had a big old beef steak, if they had
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: a steak dinner, would anybody be giving them grief? And
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: the damage in so many ways would be so much greater.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: You get they I like this, it's the weight of
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: your bag. It's a good bass fishing. Yeah. So you
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: get a limit. They weigh out your limit, man, Yeah,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: you better go on. I want to count disc tournaments
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: so bad German town sports his association so and making
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: their death giving them death threats and whatnot. You should
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: call them and say, I hope that you stay alive
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: a long time. Um, Steve by their rules can use dogs,
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: Me and you and y'all do could roll up there
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: with a couple of hot mountain fights and they might
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: not know what hit him. I know that on Facebook
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: they have Somebody's gonna People are talking about six fourteen likes,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: But no, I don't know the details. We can get
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: back with you on that, or if you'd like, Clay,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: we'll go up there with some meals and dogs. Listen,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: I got this idea. Why don't you all over, Why
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: don't you call over, conduct some interviews and come back
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: and report to us about new York Squirrel Hunting Tournament
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: done another quick squirrel A couple quick you go, I'm
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: going to leave him behind. I'm going no, no, no,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying to not go. Is she not gonna
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: make it this year? Oh no, this is a quick turnaround.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: Teams have two look at this guy. This guy's like
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: a we'll split it up cash prize, will take tests. Bonus.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: So if you get a black face, if you get
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: a black now do they mean red? Like what what
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: do they mean? Fox guaranteed? So bonus for fox really
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: bonus and you get a bonus for black phase gray.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: Mm no, that's getting a little too flashy for me. Boys,
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: I'm all about that when it comes to squirrel. I
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: know it was a spot in New York where all
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: you see is black face gray, get over there. Yeah,
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: if you want, I know a spot in southwest Michigan,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: same thing. So if you wanted to do, if you're
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: like a you know, smart criminal, you could hunt up
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: a bunch there and make drivedle detecting over the piles
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: of squirrels. Make sure someone didn't like stuff like lead
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: balls down their throat. Yeah, I remember that reading about
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: that in a Shark tournament. They found a shark pack
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: full of sash weights, so then they started X ray
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: and the sharks. Hey, that might be a reason to
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: use a lead shot for squirrels up there rather than
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: head shoot. Yeah, because head shot you lose weight. Yeah,
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: you that carries off some of the weight. You know.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: I one time, I wanna get back to this squirrel news.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: But we years ago. We're turkey hunting. Turkey hunt in
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: Wisconsin and the local bar, which like all the revenue
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: at this bar sees have come from the same six alcoholics.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: What was that town? Oh yeah, no, damn it, we're
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: all looking at Chester. No, not Roscoe. You oh yeah,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: you're onto it. Hey wait this here's the funniest part
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: about the story. So there's too funny part. Anyways, there's
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: a bar in Elroy and no, no, no, no misrespect
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: to the to the drunkards to spend their entire day
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: in this bar. But if you ask them, they are
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: all exceptional turkey hunters. So I get a big turkey
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: and everybody's like, and my body had already signed me
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: up for the big turkey contest. He had to put
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: like three bucks in your five bucks in to sign
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: me up. For the Big Turkey contest. I killed turkey,
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: got it, I got it and bring it down. But
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: it winds up being like, for a while it's on
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: the leaderboard. I'm like number one heavy turkey. You're trying
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: to tell him, Oh, if I hadn't get it, Oh
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: in the old drunks in this bar, he got in
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: the turkey. Have you ever he got in the turkey.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: We go back into a couple days later and I
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: can hear him and they're still in there, and get it,
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: get this, he got in the turkey and I lost
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: that damn thing by ounces. The funniest part about is
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: I knew we were like by Doug Durn's kinda and
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: Doug Durn's talking about being over in Elroy, like like
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: you're in Marrakesh, Okay, Like, oh my god, over in Elroy.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: Who right? And one day we decided to go to
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: Dougs and it's like we'd like drive down the road
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: like I don't know minutes and we're at Dug's house.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Those people. I thought, it's like Dug could like yell
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: over to Elroy, Oh my god, Elroy. Uh so, oh,
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: here's no good squirrel story. They had a squirrel with
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: a radio collar. We're talking about squirrel distribution, which I've
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: taken interest. And I don't want to tell anybody why
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: a secret. But in fact, there was a thing about
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: what I don't want to talk about in here in
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: my notes, and I why I deleted it. Then I
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: put it back in, but put a note, a comment,
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: note that this is a secret, secret thing I know about. Anyhow,
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: the secret I know prompted prompted a question to uh
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: are the squirrel biologist we recently had on that episode
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: is called the squirrel Doctors in um in Pennsylvania, Seth,
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: you'll appreciate this. In Pennsylvania they had a ear tagged
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: squirrel that traveled sixty two miles. Really, mhm, I believe it?
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: What have you? What have master years and p a
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: where it's just there's just nothing in all the squirrels
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: disappear gone. I can't find a squirrel anywhere travel And
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: then and then you next year, good master year, all
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: the squirrels are back. You know what I do? You
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: know what a radius is? In the circle I would
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: put the I would make a radius around that. Wherever
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: you are, I'd make a radius sixty two miles around that.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: Point and then I'd get in my car and drive
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: do some surveys. Someone real sharp can figure out how
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: far are you'd have to drive? I drive, Yeah, that's
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: the equation, and I'd find him. It's recomference. He little
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: something something hie r. Okay, Clay, do you want to
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: start on? Do you want to start on? What do
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: you want to start on? We start on raccoons really okay,
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: m hmm. Yeah, it's fresh. Yeah, manly because I feel
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: like we've reported on squirrels so heavily over the years,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: and we'll continue to report on squirrels. We're gonna report
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: on squirrels today, but we have not given due reporting
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: hunting to coon hounding. Yeah, we've had a tough we've
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: had We've so now you've only been here for three nights, Steve,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: so you've hunted the last three nights. Yanni and I
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: have hunted the last four nights together. And this is
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: about as tough of conditions as we've as I've ever
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: hunted in you know we have right now in the
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: Ozarks or when Yannie got here, there was six eight
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: inches of snow on the ground, which for here is
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: a lot. It does happen but it's a lot. We
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: had records. Yeah, it's so to back you up, it's
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: so rare that I called a buddy of mine who
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: used to hunt a lot of coons in southern Missouri,
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: which is not far from here, and I was asking
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: about cold, snowy conditions. He's like, I really can't tell
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: you because I think I hunted those conditions twice in
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: all my years. Well, that's exactly what I told you.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: You You said, hey, Clay, have you ever hunted in
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: the snow? And I was like, one time I hunted
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: in the snow, So I didn't really know what to
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: expect um, But the record lows. It was negative twelve
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: on my phone for the town that I live in
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: the northwest Arkansas, like two days before you got here Sunday.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: There's ponds around here. It looks like you could walk
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: on on the ice and go I fishing. I walked
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: out on one, and my uh Seth knows about this
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: ice talks to me. I walked out on one and
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: it was not It wasn't. I don't like it. Yeah,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: it went just about it and I got off quickly.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: But still, how often do you even see a pond
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: frozen over. I mean not like this, so so what
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: was you know what? Hold on a second. I didn't
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: set this up properly. I didn't do a good I
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: have a train. I have a better okay, because see
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: I was set it up like we're going into squirrel,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: but we went into coons. So check this out let
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: her rip. We're talking about how, uh when they trained
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: dogs in Germany, apparently Navid and all that. Mhm, you
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: make the dog get into a barrel or a cage
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: and scrap with a raccoon. You know about this. I've
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: heard of it. And I got talking about, uh, people
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: putting a dog in to fight with a weasel or
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: to fight with a rat. I've done the weasel fight thing.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: Really yeah really just like with what kind of dog? No?
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: Just personal? Oh yeah yeah in a culver pipe? Yeah,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: did you have to scrap? He was he was setting
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: a trap and he went down there and set the trap,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: and the weasel was in the culvert already they're going
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: to set screamed like a baby. Not you got this
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: is in Texas. This is he talked about it on
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: I reached down in a culvert pipe to set a
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: trap and there was a weasel in there. It snarled
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: at me, but it was in a culvert pipe, so
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: it's yeah, it sounded like a tiger. He's it's a
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: bank of tiger there. It made me step back. And
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: when you put your nose down and you can just
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: smell that weasel in there too, I think you should
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: take out Steve, say Navita too, because I believe Nada
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: North America. I know, but it's all listen, no, okay,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: take out me could not be able to find my stuff.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: But keep Yannie in saying to take out NAVDA because
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: NAVDA is heavily influenced by German versatile hunting dogs stuff
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: heavily influenced. But I know, I just don't want it
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: to make it sound like you're saying that NAVDA now
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: has these things going on where they like. I can
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: tell you they maybe don't condone it, they maybe don't
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: talk about it, but I can listen. I'll take this
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: to the grave. I can tell you there are people
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: who are Okay, not NAVDA. There are people who are
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: into the versatile hunting dog aesthetic on this continent who
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: might uh pay attention to NAVDA and be interested in
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: the stuff, who are still believers in making them duke
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: it out with a raccoon. I totally agree. Okay, this
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: guy has firsthand knowledge of a farmer who had a
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: weener dog doins. He's a grain farmer, and he had
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: a dot. He even has it here, a dots and
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: parenthesy weener dog. I'm looking at it right here. I
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: believe it's right the other way with it. I don't
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: know how to pronounce it. I don't wanna get caught
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: not knowing how to pronounce it. It looks like and
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: I knew I'd messed it up, and then everybody have
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: a laugh at my expense. And I like to laugh
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: at everybody, but I want to be laughing at me.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: So he had a grain stylo. So he's got a
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: grain farmer. He had a weener, a dashing dotson dock Dockson.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: He had a docks and he would put in a
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: box and make him duke it out with pack rats
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: because cause he had such a problem with pack rats
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: destroying the wiring on his trucks and equipment when he
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: stored it for the winner. So this docks and am
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: I saying that right Dockson hated pack rats because I
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: have him to fight him in that box and would
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: go hunt him and protect the equipment and trucks during
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: winter storage. We had who would lie in an email? Yeah?
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: Right here? Where are we for everyone we've ever elected
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: the office? We've had thousands of dollars of damage on
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: my wife's car from pack rats getting in and chewing wires.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: I bet that's what your dog ate last night. I
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: was thinking about what the dog ate. I wasn't thinking
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: about it. That's what it was. Yeah, what the hell
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: else would have been? Yeah, that's the only kind of
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: big rat we have. Oys hell are we talking about? Oh?
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: I still haven't seg watch this now? Um made him
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: right in? Was Yannie talking about his his raccoon, his dog?
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: That was a good lead. Now I'll go talking about
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: coon's Yeah, oh we know like a long time ago,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: and I was talking about training mingus on the trap raccoon. Yeah,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: so I brought a full circle. That's good. That's really
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: good here Now people would be better prepared to track
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: the conversation. So we've just we've so, I mean, I
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: I have I have raccoon house to start from zero
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: to bring everybody up to speed. I have raccoon hounds Okay,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: a raccoon is a mammal, I would say coon, I
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: would say, I mean, I would just be not super
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: close cousins to a bear. Yeah, So I have coon hounds,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: and so coon hounds are they're multiple breeds of coon hounds,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: five or six different u k c. Registered. Well, there's
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: a walker, blue tick, black, and tan, red bone English
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: in plot? Is that all? Is that? All six of them?
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: Sounds like yeah? And so tell about how the one
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: hand all five? So well, it's easier to say the plothhound,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: the American plothhound is the only treehound that did not
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: descend from European fox hounds. So black and tan, blue tick, walker,
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: red bone English all descended from European fox hounds. If
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: you look above, you, gentlemen, you'll see uh banning on
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: the wall. I can tell you about that. I'm sorry. Yeah,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: there's a there's a there's an from this that's a
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: whole another story. You want me to talk about that later?
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: To guard the gate thing. Essentially, that scene no longer
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: exists on the earth because those dudes didn't didn't didn't
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: do it right. And I understand the principal garden the gate,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: and I believe in Garden the Gate. But I just
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: don't know how. I just don't consider that my those
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: my brethren, Well listen, let me let me. I'm with you.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: I don't even dress up fancy little hats and riding
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: around on a horse, Jason the fox. I mean, I
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: just still, I just don't look. Look at that scene
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: that was us yesterday. Look, there's a fan, there's a
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: family of people. They're they're on that play dogs. We'll
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: talk about a separate answer. No, I'm just saying those
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: that was a valuable So what I've got, guys, is
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: I've got this old painting of a European fox hunting scene,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: men on horseback, there's twenty walkers. There's not even that.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: I don't want to take up everybody's time. I'll talk
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: about it with you later. Sure, God, but I hope
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: they hunt and chase fox till the tills come home.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: It just isn't relevant. If you had let me tell
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: the story, you can see why it's relevant. But why
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: that's there, No, no, no, no, I don't want to
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: talk about that. All that is symbolic that picture because
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: that no longer exists. That's why it's on the ceiling.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: I put everything that no one because I'm slapping Yanni
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: on the knee for emphasis. I don't want there to
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: be a painting of me and Steve and Joannice on
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: mules with feists and coonhounds, but they have to make
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: paintings of because you can't do it anymore. Do you
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: see what I'm saying. That's that's the metaphor. That's why
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: it's up there, because I don't want that to be me.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: I want my kids to be able to ride mules
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: and hunt with dogs and do the stuff that we've done.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: So that's that's the metaphor. I think it's a little
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: flawed though, because I think usually people make paintings of
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: things that are celebrated. So in a way, I do
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: want a painting of us, but I don't want that
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: paint to go on. You don't want it on the
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: ceiling of this place. So so we coon hunt. So
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: we have coonhounds. Uh, it's something that I got my
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: first coon hounds when I was fourteen years old. I
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: hunted until I went to college, got rid of my dogs,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: took a hiatus from coon hunting for about fifteen years
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: until my family was kind of of age and my
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: kids and people were interested, and six I think six
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: years ago I got back into coon hunting and just
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: kind of stepped back into it. And it's a it's
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: a pretty it's I mean, if you're an outdoorsman and
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: you're looking for places to spend time in the outdoors,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: it's pretty unique because you do it at night. I
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: mean almost even from like a logistical perspective. First of all,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: it's an animal that is abundant that most people don't
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: care about, and you hunted at night. Yeah, involves a dog.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: It's there's virtually no there's virtually no stress on the
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: resource right now because the furs are not valuable enough
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: to warrant trapping for him, and generally trappers trappers are
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: like when fur prices are high, they're killing nine out
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: of ten that get killed. Yeah, high volume commercial dudes.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: And that's not nerd even more, you know the whole
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: messo predator seeing like mid sized predators. You know, the
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: big main predators in North America in this part of
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: the world, which would have been mountain lion wolf, they're gone.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: The messo predators, mid sized predators are more there. I've
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: got some research papers over here from some stuff I
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: was looking at, like there is an unnatural amount of
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: raccoons in North America right now as compared to pre
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: European settlement. So yeah, I was reading in our little
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: fact sheet. I want to say, it was like how
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: many people are in America now around I think it
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: was around three hundred million raccoons in our country. I
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: remember thinking like, wow, it's almost as many people's lived here.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: I think that that's incorrect. You do just got just
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: got couldn't you see how fast he grabbed that phone.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: That's like the kind of thing. Yeah, but you know
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: why is because he wrote that fact. I actually alright,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: so eat, when you hunt and you cast million turn loose,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: really three in a million coons? Nor do you ever
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: hear about how they how they do that? Wildlife Services
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: does that drop of rabies vaccination pills from the air
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: to spread to stop raccoon rabies. That's some interesting stuff.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: I was just I was just gonna describe. Yeah, and
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: I called the guy and I'm like, I'm bringing some
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: shid horns. So when we coon hunt, what we do
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: is we go out to a likely spot. Usually involves water,
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: big woods, like you want to turn out around a creek,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: around a pond. And these are trained dogs. And you know,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: we could go a thousand different ways of how you
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: train dogs. A lot of it is breeding, getting the
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: right dog to start with, and then you condition that
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: dog and train it. We have to get into the
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: training a little bit because that's the whole reason that
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: Chester and I are driving twenty hours each direction with
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: my dogs so he gets training done. Let me just
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: like set up what coon hunt. It is how we
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: do it. So we turn loose our dogs in a
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: likely spot. These dogs are free cast, which means we
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: just turn them loose, and the idea is that they
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: would they would go out on their own, find coon scent,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: trail the coon, and tree the coon. And so what
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: I was telling, I want to add into that, like
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: the reason there's like a name for free cast, you know,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: that's not the reason. But the other version of cut
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: cutting a hound loose to go track something is that
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: you like we do in Montana looking for mountain lions.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: We find the track and then you put the dog's
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: nose literally on that track and started the humans finds
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: the track in the snow or in the mud. You
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: turn a dog, you'd bring a dog to set them
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: in the right direction to free cast is where I
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: don't know where a coon is, you know, I just
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: I just know by this pond there's likely a coon
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: within three yards here. Maybe he's fifty yards, maybe he's
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: five hundred yards. I'm gonna turn this dog loose. This
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: dog has the instinct to hunt and pray drive. He's
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: gonna he's gonna seek out coon scent and real quick.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: Interesting you told me tell him about what's it called anie?
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: When you don't FreeCast, is there a turn for it?
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: Put him on the track. Well, I mean, if you're
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: big game, so there's lots of different things. If you're
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: big game hunting a lot of guys rigged dogs, which
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: means you drive around. No, no, I mean, what's it
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: called to stick his nose in a track? I mean,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: just turn them out on the track, turn him on
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: a track. We talked about this. I was like, what
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: happens when people if coon cuts across the road in
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: front of you. Clay was saying that the strategy is
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: drive past it, wait a while so it's not too hot,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: and then bring them back and put him on it
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: when it's not too hot. Anybody that's listening to this
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: podcast that's a coon hunter for very long has had
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: this happen. You're going coon hunting and you see a
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: coon cry us the road. The first instinct you have
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: is to slam on the brakes, jump out, grab your dog,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: and just throw it on the track. And I mean
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: just universal have done it, Oh yeah, many times. A
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: probably learned I'm not just from my experience, but from
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: others telling me the same corresponding story. Dogs have a
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: real hard time with a super fresh track. They'll usually
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: take it the wrong way. This happened. I saw a
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: coon track. This was like three or four years ago.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: I saw a coon across the road in front of
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: my truck going to the right, going off down the valley.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: I turned fern loose on that hot track. She just erupts.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: She goes two hundred and fifty yards the other way
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: and trees a coon on the side of the mountain
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: over the head, dead serious like that. You know, you
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: just feel like she's gonna hit there. So so what
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: you do, if you can discipline yourself enough to do it,
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: is you just well basically wait ten minutes before you
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: turn on the track, and then they hit the track
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: and whatever happens with the scent. So like, there's a
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of science behind the way dogs use
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: their nose with scent, Like there's a scent plume. Like
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: that dog is sometimes tracking ground scent, which means the
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: paths of that coon are touching dirt and grass and soil,
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: leaving scent. The primary way that they're trailing a hot
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: track is from a scent plume. So as that coon
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: or even you or me are walking through the air,
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: micro particles are constantly falling off of our body. I
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: mean like skin particles, hair particles, particles from your shirt
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: falling off, creating a scent plume. That's why a dog
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: will run with his head up and not put his
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: head right into a track. And so depending upon how hot,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: how fresh the scent is, and how um good the
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: conditions are, conditions are everything. If it's cold, it's one way,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: if it's hot, it's another way. Um Like, So there's
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: just all these variables that come with the olfactory conditions
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: that a dog and trump. So what to go back
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: to the sequence that I wanted, I told Johnson Steve
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: so to a coon hunter, like the the objective is
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: to get a coon, Like we're after a coon. There
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: are better ways to get coons than with a dog.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: Like if we were just like if Steve was like Clay,
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: I gotta come to Arkansas and bring ten coons home
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: with me, I would have said, well, let's put out
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: some dog proof traps. You know. That's like there there's
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: a more conficient Yeah, there's a more official way. So
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: like the whole thing is about working with this dog.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: That's part of it. And so what happens when you're
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: a coon hunter is if I took Rick Smith out,
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: he might have if he hadn't heard to spill. The
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: first night just been like the dogs barked and then
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: there was a coon, Like, big deal, My yard dog barks. Well,
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: to a coon hunter, the nuance inside of those barks,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: it's like a book. It's like a story. And man,
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, y'all, it was dark last night and I
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: can't hear out of my right ear, and that you
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: got you want to talk about a handicap this guy,
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: no doubt. I'm sure everybody knows this, but when you
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: hear a sound, your ears are making a calculate It
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: seems crazy, but this is when a sound hits your head.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: What are you laughing about? That's true. That sounds insane.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: Your brain knows which your ears the sound got to first,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: as fast as that is traveling. In fact, that's why
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: when you're underwater, you can't tell where it came from,
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: because it's traveling. What thirteen times fast or something like that.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: Look that up, my guess that's seven times fast. Look
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: at them. When you're underwater and you hear like a
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: way away off or you hear um boat motor, you
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: feel you're gonna get faster than in there. Oh yeah,
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: so fast that you brain, I can't pick it. That's
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: why when you that's why when you hear an outboard,
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: when you're diving under water and you hear outboard, it
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: feels like it's gonna hit you from some direction you
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: can't tell water. You feel like you're surrounding by whales
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: when they're that's what the whale sounds like, um so whistle. Yeah,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: that's why it's so disorienting. Your brain knows what year
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: that sound hit first, and then like through some calibrated
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: it's unbelievable. Clay has got a bad a bum here
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: every noise Clays like, where'd that come from where'd that
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: come from? He cannot tell where it came from. So
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: you can play a hell of a trick on you,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: Oh you could. For sure. I'm gonna start hiding out
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: in the woods at night. Hey, do you know do
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: you want to know how I learned that I couldn't
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: hear direction? When I was a kid, I'd be hunting
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: with my dad and he'd holler at me from you know,
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: we'd we'd split up to scout for deer, and he'd
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: be like clay and I'd be like, yeah, come over here,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: there's a bucker uh. And I'd just take off going
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: that way and he'd holler hey, and I'd be like yeah,
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: and he's further away, and I'd take off after and
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: I mean it would just so that's not that's not
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: like a result of blowing in the era. When I
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: was in the ninth grade, my ear started ringing after
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: getting a twenty two pistol and burning up about two
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: thousand rounds out of there. But but I didn't shoot
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: at home kids where it's like day eight dollars, short
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: dude runs around all day or the ear plugs in thought, Steve,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: if you clapped your hands real hard, by me my
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: bad here that I can't hear out of well ring
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: so loud. I can't hardly hear people talk, like if
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: you just went yeah, I mean like, so i'd really
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: take care of my bad here because that's the one
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: that rings. So that's when when you'll learned if you
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: hunt with me very much. I always ask people to
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: tell direction. I was doing it with you all yesterday.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: I was like, which direct point? I say, point point
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: where that dog is, and Steve would be like this way, Michael,
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: and here does it where? I say, pointed those dogs
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: because I hear them, because I got a good ear.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: I've got one here that's great, which is a blessings,
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: you know, if they're both bad. I couldn't hear people talk.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: I can hear you talk, fine, Oh no, you hear it.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: I just don't know where it makes for a tough
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: turkey hunt. Oh dude. It's sort of ruined my solo
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: turkey career, no doubt. I want to train my mule
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: to key in on. I'm serious. I thought about getting
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: a gobble machine and and then go feed the feed
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: the feed of a treat next to it, and then
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: so when she hears a gobble on a colt on
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: a spring morning. Here's to go up the mule that
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: the mule I was riding squirrel hunting. I was kind
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: of wondering, how much would you need to do this
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: before when those dogs bade they go to them, that
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: the mule will just be like, I might as just
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: go over there because this guy is gonna be kicking
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: my side, yanking out my reins and whatnot. I feel like, now, see,
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: the mule you were riding would be one that we
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: ride less, like is he my mule? Like every time
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: that we hunt on mules, I'm riding her. And I'd
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: be stretching to say that when she hears dog barks,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: she just starts going. It eventually happens. She she tends
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: to go the way they go. You should every time
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: you get a squirrel feeder, give that mule something to
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: eat that's good. So she's like over there where those
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: dogs are dogs, Those dogs are banned by some green
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: that's solid that it really would work. Those those mules
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: would sell their soul for a handful. And Phil Phil
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: cut that dogs. I'm actually gonna sell that idea to
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: somebody a book. He's gonna make a book. M We
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: were talking about the sequence, and I said, like, in
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: the dark, you're listening for these certain things to happen.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: What might seem just like a bark to someone else's
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: like this this story, and so there's four things that
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: are happening on a coon hunt. You turn the dogs,
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: you free cast the dogs. In the first bark that
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: you hear that it is what we call strike. So
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: you would hear us say that man Fern just struck
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: a con. That would mean she located the scent of
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: a coon. And there is an excited bark. I mean,
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: it could be a variation of barks, but it just
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: there's no like someone stepped on their tail, they strike
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: the con. There's no exactly okay, like for instance, and
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: I didn't even have time to get into it the
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: other night. But there was one time when Fern went
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: way out embark down in that field where we thought
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: we her to coyote, And when I heard her open strike,
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: I didn't think it was a coon. I thought she
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: was booger barking. Well, no, she got sprayed in the
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: face by a skunk. That was another time. You gotta
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: explain booker bark. Well, let's let's not let me just uh, well,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: I can't. I mean, a booker bark would just be
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: a meaning the dog was scared by something. And like
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: if a ups man drove up in the front of
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: your yard and the dog was out, it would be like,
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna stand there and look. When fern strikes,
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: she has a squall. And when I hear a squeaky
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: squall at a fern, I feel good about that. As
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: a coon she's after. So they strike. The next thing
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: they do is they trail the coon. And this is
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: this is the part of the sequence that every dog
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: is gonna be different. There's no dog that's gonna be
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: the same. But what they're doing is they're trailing the ground.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: Sin of that coon, the tempo, cadence, loudness, excited, this
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: of that bark tells you how hot that track is.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: If they just blow out of there, then man, you're like, man,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: it's a hot track. If it's like we heard a
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: lot of this this week, you're just saying, man, they're
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: they're working it. And on a textbook track, the track
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: would get hotter and hotter, but it's rarely textbook. So
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: there's there's the trail sounds when you're hunting an animal
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: that climbs trees, you have in these dogs are tree dogs,
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: which means they are bred to run game, and when
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: that game runs up a tree, they stay there and bark.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: And that's a special thing because most most most hounds
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: would be dogs that would just want to pursue game.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: So like running dogs, that's what we call a running dog.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: A running hound, and a treehound is different. A running hound,
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: when he chases a coon and it goes up a tree,
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: he goes, dang, this isn't he fun anymore. I'm gonna
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: go somewhere else and find another one to try to catch.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: A treehound, when he gets to where he believes the
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: animal left the earth and is standing up in a tree,
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: he will stay there and bark, which is think about
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: this though, Rick Smith, this is an unnatural thing for
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: an animal to do. Like in the wild, there's no
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: replication of that thing, because a treehound has a human
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: partner that will then come to the tree and harvest
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: the animal. So like a wolf wouldn't be a treehound.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: A wolf would run you up a tree and be like,
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: I ain't getting that guy, I'm gonna go catching it.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: You see, what I'm saying. So it's this influence of
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: human artificial selection and breeding that makes something really special.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: So like when I say that dog is a tree dog,
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: Like what I'm gonna say about a little bit question.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: Can all of the so the breeds of the hounds,
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: can they all be tree dogs? Well, I mean they
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: all running hounds, like like like all the six breeds
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: that I just all, they're all treehounds. What's a hound
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: that is not a treehound? Well, there's lots of walkers
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: that are running walkers like guys that run deer, guys
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: that run foxes, guys that run coyotes. Those are running dogs. Um,
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: so is a bagle. Beagles are running dog. If a
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: bagel a rabbit could climb a tree, a bagle would
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: just leave in the tree and go find another rabbit
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: to run. My dog, my dogs a snuggling dog. See
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: someone on the couches. That's where it's going artificial human selection.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: Our dog is such a snuggling dog that now, en
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: if we let the kids go into we don't have
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: like a living room with the TV area, and and
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: when the kids go into the I was like, oh yeah,
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: we get sick of them, Like you guys can go
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: watch the show. If that dog hears that a cartoon
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: or something come on, like a bline runs in, No
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: one that can go snuggle with the money. That's a
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: snuggle dog. Yeah, stays on that snuggle. So we're a
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: part two of four. So so strike, trail and then
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: locate and these are all things that I could call
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: in a sequence. The locate bark is when the the
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: the animal and in our case of coon has gone
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: up the tree. And it may seem like the dog
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: would just trail footsteps right up to a tree and
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: just start barking, but it's never the way it happens.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: Like y'all saw last night, Like fern trail, that coon
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: got to generally where she believed it was, but the
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: scent trail was indistinct to which tree it was. I mean,
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: she was checking every tree in a fifty sixty square
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: yard area. She didn't know where it was, and she
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: during that time will lead out a series of elongated
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: barks that indicate that she is no longer on the
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: actual linear trail that coon and she's like do circles
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: and and every dog will be different. I know what
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: ferns locate bark sounds like if you're a coon hunter,
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: you'd say, she's looking up, but she doesn't know where
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: it's at. Looking up with mean the dog is trying
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: to locate the coon in the tree, but it's not
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: real clear. They almost always locate, and so you get
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: excited when your dog locates. So the dog strikes, the
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: dog trails, and then when she locates, you slap your
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: buddy on the knee and you go, may, we're about
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: to be looking at the coon. And then the fourth thing,
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: the fourth sequence is the dog begins to tree. That's
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: when the dog locates the coon, and the dog begins
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: an excited series typically of chops oh oh, oh, oh oh.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: Not all dogs chop some dog's ball, but like eight
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: percent of these coon hounds that are in these breeds
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: will chop on the tree. So it's like locate, oh oh,
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: strike trail, okay tree. When last night when we were
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: having such a time, when they're having such time untangling
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: that track, well I thought was interesting was you, um,
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: they hit a tree and you said, I think the
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: tree and we ran over there and I said, well,
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: there it is. I could see it up in the tree,
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: and you seem real surprised. Yeah, man, just because you
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: were getting frustrated with how long it took to sort
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: the track out. You know. Yeah, what we saw last
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: night was it was in some ways it was great
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: dog work and other ways it was bad dog work.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just kind of which side of it
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: you wanted to look at. For whatever reason, that was
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: a hard track for them to sort out. And I
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: can't tell you why it was. Um, they made a
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: massive loss. So I should have never gone in there, Steve,
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: I was. I was just confused. Well, it doesn't help
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: him any But like when I was looking at my
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: garment and there's like eight people looking over my shoulder
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: and we've been hunting for four nights and and we
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: hadn't even seen a coon yet. And this is so
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: not a big deal to one o the morning. And
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: I'm here Fern locating and I'm watching my garment and
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: I see her doing tight circles. I felt like she
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: was treated, and I said, let's go to her. And
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: I made the decision we're gonna go. And we got
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: in there. And as soon as we got in there,
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: she wasn't where I left her, you know, she wasn't
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: And and and it wasn't. She didn't leave the tree
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: like a bad thing. That would be a bad thing.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: She just hadn't committed. They hadn't got bored left. No, No,
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: she just she just knew it wasn't there. She wasn't
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: certain where it was. So we got in there and
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: I saw her nose on the ground and not pointing
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: the tree. I just was like, Doc, got it. And
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: this is after several nights a tough coon hunting. I
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: like that. You yelled at me in there to uh
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: you said, don't start shining your light up in the
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: trees because then they'll think they got the tree. Which
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: is interesting that they got that. They bunch of dudes
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: come in and shine light the tree. They're like, it
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: must be the raccoon exactly. I mean, think, think about
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: a couple of hundred times or more in their life.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: The only time we shot up in a tree, a
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: coon comes falling down, you know what I mean. So
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: you don't, especially when they're struggling, you don't. You just
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: cut your lights. You just kind of want And when
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: we did go in on the tree, when you finally
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: like you the dogs were doing a bunch of they
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: going all over the place, and couldn't sort it out.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: But then they found it, like really committed to a tree.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: But you're still a little incredulous just because there's so
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: much weirdness has already gone on. You had me switch
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: my light to a green light so that I didn't
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: get so that I didn't if they were not if
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: they were not sure yet, that I didn't make too
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: much of a suggestion. Okay, that wasn't my thought at all,
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: that I thought. I assume that's what it was. Okay, Yeah,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: I can see why you think that, because I was
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: telling you at one time not to shine your light
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: and then you said put it on green, and put
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: it on Yeah, I had mine on red. The reason
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: I did that, Steve, is because we were in a
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: cedar thicket, and those coons would get up in the
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: top of those thirty foot cedars and you can't see them.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: You might it was another five ten ft higher in
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: that tree would have been harder to pick up. Oh
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't You saw how quick I found that quick?
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: You know what I saw that tail, the ring on
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: the tail, it was beautiful. Well, what I wanted that
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: coon to do was look at it. He'll look at
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: a red light, and he won't look at a bright light.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: Oh so that's what you were thinking, because looking eyes
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: shine a lot of times you get you get one
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: flicker of a con i right when you walk up.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: When you walk up, they're trying to figure out what's
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: going on. They'll look at you, and then they'll closer
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: us and just hunker down. And if they're up in
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: the top of a cedar tree that you can't see
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: all of it, you might get one look at him
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: in a red light. They'll look at a red light
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: or a green light. So I was worried about finding
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: the coon. I saw a fern standing on the tree barking.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: I was like, whether she's got it or not, she's committed.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: I'm going in. And then the coon was not very
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: far up the tree. You saw it right away. I
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: was excited. Man, you know, it feels way up. I
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: could have saw it right away. To Clay, do you
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: think the dogs getting sprayed by the skunk messed with
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: him at all? You know, because that's Jester said it.
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: Somebody said it. I kind of doubt it did. And
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: let me tell you why. We have this sense of
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: what it's like to use your nose to navigate life
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: because but a dog's navigation of life through its nose
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: is vastly different than ours. The way I've heard it
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: described by someone, it would be like walking into a house,
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: and let's say your wife was cooking lasagna. You were
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: cooking lasagna, Johnny, and you'd walked into the house. You
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: would smell lasagna. Your dog would walk in and he
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: would smell tomato, sauce, boiled noodles, ricotta, cheese, and Italian sausage,
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: and he could distinct. They would be like distinct colors
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: that he could separate from one another. So, yeah, are
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: my dogs were out? I gotta qualify this because people
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: are gonna think I have skunk dogs. Uh, my dogs were.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: I think they were working a little drainage and both
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: of them just erupted, just just for probably four or
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: five seconds into it. I think they just spooked. There
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: was a lot, don't if you noticed, there was a
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: lot of skunk tracks last night they were, Yeah, because
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: I think that warm break in the weather, so in
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of greener tracks. Yeah, we haven't seen a
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: greener track. I don't think. I didn't see one. I
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: saw it. We saw as he left. I don't know,
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: if you went and looked around that area, it looked
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: like he had had a hole down in that area.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: Is that yeah? M hm, he'd been working and work
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: and working, and it was I remember asking you what
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: that little outburst was. The dogs like kind of went
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: crazy there for a second. Right, They probably just jumped something. Yeah,
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: And that's not you said. They maybe they maybe like
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: kicked up a deer and it scared him or whatever.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: Because they didn't run it. I mean that like, you know,
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: to run it out of the cunt. I mean, they
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: just typically don't. They're pretty straight dogs. But it was
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: as tough of conditions as I've ever been in for
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: tree coon the last several days. And just so everyone knows,
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: those dogs treat that coon after they got sprayed by
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: that skunk. So yeah, probably thirty forty minutes after they
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: got sprayed by scunt. Yeah they did. Uh what do
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: you think about that one? You know, Yanni's one of
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: his nicknames is the lavin Eagle. What do you think
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: when Yannie spotted that squirrel's eyeball up in that tree?
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: I was oppressive, it really was. Man. Good Ah, that's
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: when the I know save this. You know, we had
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: we lost the squirrel in the tree. This is a
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: segway in the squirrel hunt. No, we forgot something, Yeah,
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: the Ballad of Mingus the dog Um. We lost a
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: squirrel the tree and Yanni there's a crack in the tree.
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: And Yanni found its eyeball up in the crests like
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: a little hole look like a you know, like a yeah,
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: not too small, and he could probably make a volleyball
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: stick into it. Jam it in there, eyeball looking at
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: but it wasn't deep. And so when I glassed up there,
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: you could see a little squirrel head. You can see
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: a head in the shine of its eye. That was
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: an interesting call on squirrel hunting, is like you can
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: see his head in there, and you definitely could have
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: shot him in the head. But then if you stoned
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: him he might not come out. But the nature of
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: the whole was such that you had to actually do something,
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: go for a less ethical kill, in order that it
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: would have a lot enough life to scurry itself out
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: of that crack. Well that's not what we did, though,
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: didn't do You know what we did? You spooked him out.
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: I shot right under the hole. So what we did
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: so we had twenty two's on him. We had Michael
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: Lanier with the twelve gauge. I was carrying a four ten,
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: and I the fact that we could see the squirrel
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: and the hole told me that the hole didn't go
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: deeper like advantage of it. He was just in a
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: little cavity, and so I said, well, I'll just shoot
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: right beneath the hole, and that's what we did. It worked,
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: shot and he ran out of the hole. It was
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: delayed though I shot boom. He didn't move and then
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: he broke like a few seconds later. That's why I
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: remember it. And then he ran up the tree. And
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: then I guess Michael ended up shooting it with a
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: shotgun as it was going up the tree. Yeah, all right,
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: talk about Amingus Update. We need a jingle for Amingus Update.
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: A little song. Oh you know what I want to do?
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: I wanna you know that old kiss song Beth. It
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: goes Beth. You hear me calling Beth, to hear me
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: calling you calling, But I can't come home. I'm gonna
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: do one. I want to rewrite it so it's seth.
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: But I can't see if I wanted to be a
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: turkey hunting song fleshing songs did last night. Well, I know,
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: but now I got thinking Seth. I hear him calling, Well,
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: I like that. That'd be us here in to gobbel
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: it be all about me and Seth here in to
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: go Seth. I hear him calling. I like that. I
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: like that better than the fleshing. Yeah. I'm just in
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: a Turkey state of mind right now. It's coming. It's
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: gonna be sweeping. I get that song written up. Jesse
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: is gonna help me with it. The creative projects just
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: flow around here and put some chords in there. So
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: then also when you get working at it, work up
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: a jingle for Yanni's Mingus update. Okay, yours will be
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: Mingus mingas Mingus. Don't make it that they're all the same. Well,
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: I'll let Clay speak to it more because Clay has
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: got more experienced so he can see what my dog
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: didn't learned. But two set it up. Mingus has been
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: trained a little bit with uh one live con and
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: a dead coon in Montana, maybe four days total, and
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: uh he got to trail one and he fought one
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: for a little bit and then we shot it out
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: of a tree. And um, you know you got to
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: smell it a little bit when it was when it
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: was not that much exposure, with not much, not much,
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: And he's been at two lion trees. Now he's been
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: on quite a few more hunts, but my hunts just
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: haven't been panted out, so he hasn't actually gotten to
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: run a lot of tracks. So I wanted to bring
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: him down here for this so you get some more experience. Well,
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: first of all, for the houndsmen out there, or the
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: non hounsmen, Mingus is a and I'm not just saying
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: this because I don't just walk around telling people they
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: got good looking hounds. That's just not a compliment you
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: throw around too lightly. But Vengus is like big, old,
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: handsome looking dog. It really is. For a hound, handsome
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: looking dog, loud are most hound is known to be ugly.
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: I mean they're not always pretty, and I'm being serious,
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: they're working dog. What sentence would sound more familiar to you?
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: And up on the porch is ugly old hound dog,
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: or and up on the porch it's a beautiful old
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: hound dog. Ugly like something you wouldn't You don't really,
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't really call a hound beautiful. You might call
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: him handsome Regal or you know, I'm just like Regal Eagle. Yeah, no,
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: it really when I saw him, I'd seen him when
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: he was younger back in Montana, you know, when he
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: was just kind of a pup, maybe three quarter grown.
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: But boy's a big old dog. And uh in a
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: pound puppy pound. Yeah, you honest got him from a pound.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: Didn't know anything about him, so we we don't know
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: the daughters picked him up. This. This is what would
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: be interesting about mingus to me is that John's doesn't
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: know any history of this dog. Like my dogs, I
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: would be able to tell you back to about seventeen
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: fifty their lineage. And I'm sort of being serious, uh
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: like you know, you just know so much. Uh, this dog,
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: we don't know anything. But yann say he's gonna bring
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: the dog. Um I didn't. I mean I was all
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: for it. I didn't think the dog would do much,
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: not because he's a bad dog, just because he was
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: coming to a new environment. He's gonna be with new dogs,
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: he's gonna be a new territory, running something he's not
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: familiar with. And uh and he's just yeah, he's a pup,
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: he's a how old is he Yeah, and anything under
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: two years old, and a hunting dog would be kind
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: of considered a young dog, and he might be out
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: of the puppy stage. You might be into a young
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: dog stage. They're pretty pliable until they're about two two
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: and a half years old. You got a lot of
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: room to train and such. But the dog, we cast
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: the dogs with my dogs, and uh, I mean he
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: went hunting, which number one, that's a good thing. He
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: didn't just stay at our feet the whole time. Yeah,
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: he'd go away the hell off and that That's one
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: of the main things I'm looking for is just drive
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: to go, you know, because you know my dog go
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: back to the truck. Well, you kept saying, you kept
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: making the joke of when you'd see a dog that
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: was doing that. What's the joke? What's the line? I remember? Oh,
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: you're always saying like, oh me, it's is just over
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: there standing there thinking like un yeah, Fern. Every now
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: and then it comes back and she'll hear jed bark
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: out there four hundred yards and she'll just perk up
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: and listen like she's so proud of him. She's just
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: like like, man, she loves hearing a good coon race
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: and then yeah, so so we cast the dog um
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: And what I was most impressed with was the first
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: night my dogs went I think eight hundred yards, which
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: is essentially half a mile intreed, so solid, and we're
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: going to the tree. And my dogs are not big dogs.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: These in my plots are not loud like they're just
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: average and a lot of things which is not factors
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: I'm that worried about. And we hear like the volume
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: and you can you said it to Saith, the volume
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: of noise coming from that tree like tripled. Oh it's right,
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: you guys can hear it would be like this would
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: be like two. I mean, it's just like we thought.
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: They had turned around and came towards us, and and
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: essentially Mangus went to him and started treeing, which which
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: to me, that's what I was impressed with, its tree instinct,
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: that he didn't see them, just that he has the
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: idea that you stand here, put your feet on the tree,
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: chew on the bark, make a rucus, and don't leave you.
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: You don't know how special that is unless you're you're
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: after a tree dog, and you see all the ones
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: that won't do that, even ones that are bred to
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: do that that don't do it very well well. And
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: the reason I have some now understanding of why it's
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: it is something whether especially or not, I don't know,
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: but you know it wasn't but probably I don't know.
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: In December sometimes so to three months ago, we're at
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: a tree with three other dogs that are treeing, barking
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: nuts and there's a lion in the tree and Mingus
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: is walking around and wanting to play grab bass with
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: the dogs and just kind of wagging his tail and
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: like not putting two and two together at all, you
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. I remember you're saying you were
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: trying to make him look up the tree, and someone
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: told you that don't work. Yeah, So like, yeah, even
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: though there was ah, we knew it was a very
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: because on a on a lion when you come up
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: to that tree, that lion ran into that tree. Like
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: a coon might have been there for half an hour, right,
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: but a lion has been there for minutes by the
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: time those dogs get there, you know, I mean, it
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: happens like that. And uh, even with that, he just
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: would like kind of put a pop up on the tree.
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: But there was no barking. He's just kind of like,
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: so what what turned him around on that? They just click, man,
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: They just they just well eventually, yeah, So that the
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: next time, the lion was a little bit lower on
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: an exposed branch where you could just see the whole cat.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: And the hill was so steep when you backed ten
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: yards off the tree, you're almost eye level with it.
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: And he was kind of just walking around and looking looking.
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: The other dogs are barking. That's when I grabbed his
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: head and I pointed it up there. I felt his
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: head quiver for a moment as he locked on, and
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: then he almost blew my hands on. Yeah. Yeah. And
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: when when Menga says, guys, guys, there's a cat in
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: a tree, he goes, it's but I was. I was
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: just impressed they did that. And so you wouldn't you.
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: So if you, if you imagine your own honor as
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: a man, clay, you wouldn't shine your honest up just
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: for the sake of sparing his feelings. I really wouldn't.
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: I now what I want to qualify. I've tried to
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: be encouraging to your honest because a child, no, no, no, no,
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: I just know there's a lot of people that if
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: your dog does something good, they wouldn't tell you it
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: was good if it was the best dog in the world.
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: And I'm just not gonna be that guy. You know.
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, the dogs are doing good. I don't
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: want to say that. Like, there's so many other components
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: that make a whole balanced hound. That's just one of them,
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: and he's got it good. So there's all like So
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: that doesn't just mean because I say he's a good
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: tree dog. It means that Mingus is gonna be the
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: best lion hound in the West. There's a lot of
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: other factors that come in that are gonna determine like
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: his end goal. But for a pound dog that's been
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: your yard dog, I mean I was totally impressed. I mean,
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: my dog that I've got out here that's the same
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: age as Mingus, that we did not hunt, um that
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: was bred specifically. I mean, it's out of my fern.
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: Dog won't won't do that. So I mean I'm just
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: saying you're hoping it will. Yeah, it will at some point.
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: It just hadn't yet. But so I'm not trying to
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: shine him, but I've just impressed with a dog. Well, look,
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: we ure we as a team Mingus got benched to
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: you yesterday because it was I'll tell you that I'm
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: not afraid to hurt his feelings, because I actually wanted
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: to talk to you about that in private to make
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: sure you didn't think it's being a jerk. I understood.
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: I would tell this, you tell me if I mess
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: it up. The dogs are struggling on a couple of
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: tracks that were hard to sort out, and Mingus being
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: impressionable as a young youngster and liking all that excitement.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: The dogs would come in and they check some trees
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: and they're trying to figure it out, and Mingus would
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: be like, there it is. It must be in the tree.
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: And then he gets worked up and they're like, well,
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: it must be in the tree because look at him.
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: He's why would he be that excited? And then it
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: sets off a false tree, and I, Yeahni, I wouldn't
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: have known that except for when I walked away from
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: At one point, I walked away from the guys, and
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: I walked in there and I watched fern on my
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: garmen come down make a certain it's in the dark.
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: I'm just watching a garment and listening with my one
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: good ear, and I hear Fern locate bark like once
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: or twice, make a couple of tight circles, and then
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: move on. Mingus comes out and I don't have him
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: on my garment, but Mingus comes down, gets to the
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: same spot Fern was and just just starts treating like crazy.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: Fern pedals around for probably five or six minutes out here, hunting,
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: trying to work the actual track out, and then Jed
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: here's Mingus and Jed's three yards away. He comes to
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: the tree and Jed's like, oh, it's here. He starts treeing,
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: and then Ferns like, well, dog on Mingus and jet
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: or treeing over there here. I am like, some sucker, yeah,
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: and so and that's a fault of my dog. And
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 1: that's what I wanted to say last night. I wasn't
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: trying to make an excuse for my dogs slick treying
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: essentially like tree and where there is not a coon,
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: because it's like, and that's just whatever. They just did it.
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: You know. You know, Yanni's honorable man himself, and he's
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: a growing up. I don't think you hurt his feelings. Yeah,
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: but I didn't want it to sound like did he
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 1: strike he was being diminished and hurt last night, seth oh, No,
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: you thought Yanni took like a man. I thought it
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: was he was taking as like, this is more valuable
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: for my dog to do this right. Well. And the
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: thing is, if we hunted together two or three nights
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: a week, it wouldn't be any big deal. I would probably,
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: I mean just but we were we kind of had
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: a mission we had to accomplish, which was Tria coon
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: and and it just it was just another factor. And
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: then we could even go deeper on why my dogs
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: are more susceptible to honoring another dog, which is true.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: My my dogs away their bread. If they hear another
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: dog bark, they're probably gonna go to them. A more
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: independent bredhound would hear mingus barking would be who cares,
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: I'm going to find my own coin. Yeah, Clay was
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: talking about in uh coon hunting contests where you like,
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: basically it's a it's a dog handling, like a display
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: of dog handling that they might put out multiple dogs
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 1: that are competing against one another, and they each gotta
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: find their own thing. And you gotta get a dog
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: that doesn't care what's going on that he's in a
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: silo not like a group thing, but in other kinds
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: of hunting you want that group aspect. So in big
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: game hunting, it takes more than one dog to tree,
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: a bear, a lion, and so you want a dog
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: that one we call it honor will honor another dog.
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: And uh, my dogs come from a long lineage of
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: big game hounds. So they're not they have not been
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: influenced by the competition coon world, because they could breathe that.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: They got a pack mentality. Yeah, so they hear mingus
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: and they're like going to him, so and that and that.
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: So what happens when guy's dogs struggle? And I was frustrated,
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: I really was. I mean, you guys come all the
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: way down here to go coon on with me, and
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh yeah, we'll treat all the kind of
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: coons and then we can't treat coon. I'm frustrated. And
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: I'm not frustrated at mingus for you. I'm really not,
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: but I just I see what's happening, and I'm like,
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 1: probably the best holding back. What I thought was fun
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: to watch because it's on such a micro scale, is
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: watching the when you when you're in your body, head
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: out the four squirrel dogs, and there's no leaves on
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 1: the trees, so you see pretty far all the woods,
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: and a lot of times you kind of know where
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: they're all at and wanted to hit a tree liked,
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: and just watching those other ones like yeah, let's go
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: come running from all directions to join that one of
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: the tree was kind of fun, man, And I won't lie.
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: It's like, it's no fun to get taken out of
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: the game. No different you're in a basketball game and
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: you know you're taken out. You want to be in
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: the game, and now you don't. You're just sitting there
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: like trying to hang onto the seventy pound beasts trying
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: to yanke you through the woods. But I told you
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: that the first night, or maybe the second night, I said, Man,
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: if I could just hear him bark out in the
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: woods one time on like what we think is a
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 1: coon track or a coon tree, like, I'll consider this
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: trip of success. So when I thought that through, I
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: was like, man, we're like, we blew that goal out
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 1: of the water. You know, I've got a question for it.
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: You know, you're saying, how competition dogs are good? When
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: they get him out of the truck, they get on
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: sent and tree quick. Do you think Mingus would be
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: a good competition dog because he does lockdown in tree
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: or you know what I'm saying in I see what
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: you're saying. And I don't think that we have enough
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 1: data points to like say that for sure, because there's
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 1: other things. I mean, like my dogs will go out
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: and tree a coon quick and lockdown on a tree
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: if there's a fresh coon track there, you know, I mean, like, uh,
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: we saw kind of an atypical series of coon hunts
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 1: this week because of the extreme temperatures and whatnot. Oh
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: you know, you know on that extreme temperature point, um
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: that what's interesting as hell. We're all squirrel hunting and
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: ridge pounder finds like it looked like a taxidermy robin
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: laying on the ground, not a ruffled feather on it.
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: They're like, what the hell is that all about? Like
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 1: no broken neck, nothing, And last night what we find
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: three frolls of death woodpeckers laying there like completely completely fine,
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: Like anytime you find a burden woods. He looks roughed
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: up generally like it's some way roughed up, just like
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: like you've gassed it in a bag. And and and
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: laid it out on the forest floor. I just got
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: froze out negative twenty or whatever. Fayettville got killing all
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: these migrat killing like migratory like killing birds that are.
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: There was a dead bird wrapped by my house. I
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: didn't tell you all that, but the morning I was
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 1: skinning squirrels after our first day, there was a hat.
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, he was alive laying there. I kind of
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: nudged him and they I could tell he was going down. Yeah,
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: those woodpeckers like froze to death all of the same
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: vintage too. It was like, oh, he died a month ago.
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: It was like, remember when we went and got coffee
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: the first morning we park. I get out and I
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: couldn't missed it. But you don't think I would miss it,
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: because it's like it's one of those spots on this
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: sidewalk where they've got a little spot cut out. There's
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 1: like a little bit of dirt and a tree growing
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: out of it. You know. There was snow tree, well
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: whole snow holding there and it was fresh as could be.
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: We're gonna get coffee and I come back and I
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: opened the door. And as I opened the door, and
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 1: I looked to the ground and right there, you know,
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: like the door had to swing over the top of
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 1: it is a dead bird. And I was pretty he
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: had a window. But now right mass event, just thinking
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 1: how many we may have cleaned the clean the woodpeckers
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: out of this place, or were not just woodpeckers. But
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: I bet a lot of birds died. I wouldn't. I
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have picked birds to die. I would have thought
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: like rabbits died, you know. And and this this strikes
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: at me personally cause I have an interest there. But
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of nil guy died in Texas. No way,
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: they just aren't built for cold now, h I guess
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: it was real hard on seek a deer, no not
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 1: seek as us. A lot of dead access here, a
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: lot of dead yoga, a lot of those exotics. Just
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 1: did the book, I mean, when did you start coon
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: hunting into the book Where the Red Fern Grows? How
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: did that? Did you read it as a kid? You know,
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 1: I don't It was influenced. It influenced me, just kind
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: of culturally. I can't say that like I read Where
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: the Red Fern Grows and wanted to start doing you know,
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: I want to start coon hunting but you know, so
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: that book was took place in northeast Oklahoma. If you
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: remember in the book tal the city of Talaqua is mentioned.
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: That's where Billy Coleman got his dog. Anyway, Talaqua is
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 1: like forty five minutes from here. Yeah, so I mean
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: it's like this is this is coon hunting country. You know.
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: It's funny when I when I was a kid and
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 1: read that book, I didn't really I can I imagine
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: the South, but at all it didn't really I didn't
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: think of like a place like this. Yeah, I felt
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: like it was I don't know, but that was the
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: first book I read that. I remember that that I
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: that I cried after reading. Really yeah, I just remember
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: being like, we're born to be a coon hunter. Rick Smith.
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 1: You never know, you never know what's gonna happen. Suburbs
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 1: of Bellevue. Come on. There's a there's a marketing thing
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: that people use a marketing about touch points, and you
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: like to get someone to buy something right there. Oftentimes
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: it needs to be six touch like on the average,
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 1: like six touch points, and in marketing you're just trying
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: to provide you yet another touch point. You could describe
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 1: where the red Fern grows as perhaps a touch point.
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah in your journey for sure. Read the book. Great movie,
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: especially like the nighttime scenes really felt like it was nighttime.
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 1: Really warms my heart. Are nighttime scenes are going to
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 1: really feel like nighttime. We've got some good stuff next season.
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: For all you listeners out there and all the child
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: for all the child performances were stellar. Well, everybody did
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: a phenomenal job. Child actors back. Clay and I are
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: going to go out again tonight. Is he back on
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: the Team'na, We're gonna get that. That's what I wanted,
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: Gonna bring you out of you out there and make
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: up standard. Trying to restrain that dog, That's what I
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 1: was saying. If there's not anything, we'll just turn him
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: loose tonight on the planet. Man, Poor Yanni stand here
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: trying to restrain that. I want to say, your son
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: Bear and I we have a plan. That dog crying
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 1: because he can't go out. No, Hey, it means the
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: world to me. You guys came to Darkansas for real,
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: I mean like for real. To my family, Thanks for
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: having us, Thanks down here. Wouldn't miss it. Thank you everybody,