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275. [Re-Release] Your Expertise Is Cute, But Can You Sell It? · The Life-First Solopreneur

• 0:00
  Carly Ries: What if the secret to solopreneur success wasn't working harder, but positioning smarter, marketing better, and learning how to persuade like a pro? Well, in this episode of the Aspiring Solopreneur, we sit down with the insightful, hilarious, and refreshingly honest Moe Choice. Someone who went from burnout and bankruptcy to earning $50,000 months while living life completely on his terms. Moe shares how he built his 6 figure freedom framework, why expertise alone won't get you clients, and how to design a solopreneur lifestyle rooted in freedom, not just finances. He also shares wisdom about personal branding, time freedom, and the myth of passive income.
• 0:38
  Whether you're just starting out or trying to break through a plateau, this episode is packed with mindset shifts and real world tactics to help you grow smarter, not just busier. You're listening to the Aspiring Solopreneur, the podcast for those just taking the bold step or even just thinking about taking that step into the world of solo entrepreneurship. My name is Carly Ries and my cohost Joe Rando and I are your guides to navigating this crazy but awesome journey as a company of one. We take pride in being part of LifeStarr, a digital hub dedicated to all aspects of solopreneurship that has empowered and educated countless solopreneurs looking to build a business that resonates with their life's ambitions. We help people work to live, not live to work.
• 1:24
  And if you're looking for a get rich quick scheme, this is not the show for you. So if you're eager to gain valuable insights from industry experts on running a business the right way the first time around or want to learn from the missteps of solopreneurs who paved the way before you, then stick around. We've got your back because flying solo in business doesn't mean you're alone. Moe, even just talking to you offline, I'm like, you're my cup of tea. I am so thrilled and excited for this conversation.
• 1:51
  Before we dive into it, I mean, you help solopreneurs day in and day out, similar to what we do. I wanna know what you wish you had known before you became a solopreneur.
• 2:03
  Moe Choice: first of all, I wish I knew that I was already a solopreneur because I look at solopreneurship a little bit different than most people. So I didn't know that I could turn my value into a brand. I thought to be a solo brand, a personal brand, a solo operator, you have to be super talented musician, actor, comedian, artist, athlete, chef, something like that. And I was like, why the hell is anyone gonna care about my personal brand? So what I wish I knew is there's no negative ROI on your personal brand and you should start building it as soon as possible.
• 2:50
  Carly Ries: Cool. That is such such good information. I mean, I feel like we're just gonna have little nuggets of wisdom like that because like I said, you work with solopreneurs day in and day out. You are one. So I'm kinda like, let's just pick your brain about what you've learned and what you know and say how we can apply it to other people.
• 3:06
  Well but let's start with your personal journey. How did you go from bankruptcy and burnout to fifty k plus months on your own? And with your really cool lifestyle, by the way.
• 3:18
  Moe Choice: I don't know. Honestly, I still don't know what I'm doing. So to succeed in life, I think you need to know three things. How to position yourself properly to the market really.
• 3:35
  The only thing we care about is the market. How do you position yourself even if you're looking for a job, how do you position yourself properly in the job market? If you're looking for a new football team, how do you position yourself properly to the football teams? It's the same idea. So how do I position myself properly to get the attention of the people I want and to get them to see what I want them to see?
• 3:55
  That's the first thing we have to learn. The second thing is how do we then test the market and adapt to the market because the market changes. It's a million variables constantly changing. There's no one this is how it is and this is how the market works. There's no such thing.
• 4:09
  So it's how do I how do we adapt to the feedback from the market? Because she will give you feedback very quickly and you need to be able to adapt to the feedback to be able to then manipulate the market in as much as you can. Or work within the market forces, let's say. So marketing, we can say, right? And then the third thing is persuasion.
• 4:30
  How do I get people to do the things I want them to do? And I think anyone should want to learn all three no matter what you want to do in your life. And so all I did was try to upskill myself, my competence in those three areas, and I kept doing that and until I got here, and I'll keep doing that until I get to wherever the next place is.
• 4:55
  Joe Rando: Very cool.
• 4:56
  Carly Ries: Yeah. You obviously have a resilient mindset too. You're like, I'm just gonna keep going. Like whatever, I'm gonna keep going. How can people get that mindset?
• 5:04
  Moe Choice: Well , here's the caveat. I don't have kids. I don't have any dependencies. No one relies on me for anything. That's liberating in many ways because and also I'm quite happy to live under a bridge, I don't mean that literally because if things don't work out, I think I can walk into a fast food joint or a bar and get a job, and I think I can probably work my way up to manager pretty quickly.
• 5:29
  So the worst case scenario, I'll be working in an industry I love. I love hospitality, and I love being hospitable. So worst case scenario, I'll be working in hospitality, an industry that I love, probably in a really good job. So it's like, what does it matter if I fail? Real quick on this.
• 5:50
  I watched Seinfeld when he got his pilot agreed by NBC. He was on the Letterman show doing that five minute stand up sketch that he used to do. And he went backstage and he told Letterman, I got my pilot, any advice. And Letterman said, don't let them change anything. And Seinfeld said, What do you mean?
• 6:07
  He goes, Don't let them change even a word on your script, a character, a detail. Don't let them change, do it your way. And Seinfeld said, Why are you saying that? And he said, Because if you fail, you failed your way and you can sleep at night. And so the resilient mindset for me is as long as I do it my way, I'm happy with the consequences whether good or bad.
• 6:28
  Joe Rando: That's like so so true.
• 6:30
  Carly Ries: Well, you're just so refreshing. I wanna ask you random questions and go rogue and just see what comes out of you.
• 6:35
  Moe Choice: Go rogue.
• 6:35
  Joe Rando: Go rogue, Carly. Do it.
• 6:38
  Carly Ries: You've talked about making having like fifty k months, which is like achievable, not always the norm. But why do you think, in terms of an offer that converts to make those kinds of sales, why do you believe expertise is all you need? What do you need?
• 6:54
  Moe Choice: Well it depends on so you know how we at the beginning we talked about positioning and marketing and persuasion. You need expertise in those three things.
• 7:00
  Joe Rando: Right.
• 7:01
  Moe Choice: Not just expertise. Now, so how to build a successful business? You need to be able to get people to pay you, and then you need to give them what they paid you for. Ta da! Expertise is I can give you what you paid for, but if I can't get you to pay me, what's the point?
• 7:17
  I'm not gonna make money. So the expertise I think is twofold. It's do I know how to get customers? And then do I know how to deliver what they paid for? And if you're an expert of both, you are an independent solar printer. Let me ask you your opinion though. So imagine you've got two different experts, right? And expert A is 50% as good as expert B. But expert A is really good at those three things. Who's gonna make more money?
• 7:46
  Well long term, it depends on what the 50%,
• 7:50
  Joe Rando: Is 50% good enough?
• 7:52
  Moe Choice: Well, don't know, because the good enough is what am I paying you for? Like, if I go to McDonald's, is the Big Mac good enough as a burger? Or do you sit and say, no, the burger should be gourmet and it should have fresh milk
• 8:02
  Joe Rando: But my point is just if 50% of B is good enough , if it's gonna solve people's problems
• 8:11
  Moe Choice: Right. It gets you the outcome you want,
• 8:13
  Joe Rando: That's all it takes.
• 8:14
  Moe Choice: And the way you want it to, then you're going to leave a testimonial or review that says he got me what I wanted. That's ultimately what we want. We want the clients to say I paid for something and I got it. That's what we need to end up with.
• 8:30
  That he gave me what I wanted. You know, I see a lot of these testimonials, Joe, where, oh, really enjoyed working with Moe. He was a great coach. It's like, what was the outcome? Oh, I really enjoyed Carly's process.
• 8:41
  It's like, but what was the outcome?
• 8:43
  Joe Rando: Right. What did I get? What changed?
• 8:45
  Moe Choice: At the end? I don't care if Carly was a nice person. Did she get me the thing that I wanted to get? You know what I mean? Like, it's like saying in a restaurant, I went to the steak house and the seats were comfortable.
• 8:54
  It's like, how was this thing how was this thing you know what I mean? It's like, I don't wanna know that part. I wanna know if you got what you wanted.
• 9:01
  Carly Ries: Yeah. Well, so what do you think is the secret? I guess you kinda just answered it, but what do you think is the secret to sustainable growth for solopreneurs?
• 9:11
  Moe Choice: You have to keep growing. You know, it's this idea that, like, let's say inflation's 9%, which means if your revenue growth is less than 9%, you're losing money. What's the opposite of growing? You're
• 9:24
  Joe Rando: shrinking.
• 9:25
  Moe Choice: Shrinking, right? So I think it's the same in competence. Because people are always upskilling. It's not like if I don't upskill this year, no one's going to catch up or overtake me. It's like everyone's upskilling.
• 9:40
  So I think to grow is to grow your competence in those four things we talked about: persuasion, marketing, positioning and your craft. And if you keep growing that faster than the competition, you're going to grow faster than the competition.
• 9:57
  Carly Ries: It's so funny because when you say it, it's like, well, yeah. But people don't actually think through it like that. You know what I mean? Like you just put it in such simple terms that are so applicable, it's so practical, and yet there will be listeners that are like, so what should I do next? You know what I mean? but it really is simple. Like you really can just break it down.
• 10:17
  Joe Rando: There's a simplicity that's still not easy to necessarily do. The idea is simple, but the process of thinking through, you know, how do I position myself? Simple idea, not always easy in practice. In fact, we're still doing it here. We're still positioning, figuring out how we wanna place this business.
• 10:39
  Moe Choice: Well, simple is often the hardest thing to do, simplicity. You think about music, you think about fashion, you think about food. Right? It's often the simple things that are really hard to achieve because you're just, you're, you know, you, you like let's say a singer on stage performing on their own is a lot harder than if you have backing vocals, dancers, you're kind of taking the attention away from you, your limitations, your vulnerabilities, your right? So I think simplicity is the hardest thing to do and simple is not easy.
• 11:14
  Here's the thing though, in terms of like Carly, what you said about how do I? You have to learn these topics and the easiest way to learn the topics is to go and find the five best books on each topic. And you know these people that say, I read 52 books this year, one a week. It's like, you didn't learn anything, probably. Because it takes me like six months to learn a book.
• 11:38
  Sometimes longer. You know what I mean? So the education process is I think what people get wrong.
• 11:46
  Joe Rando: I learned to speed read years and years ago, and I was able to get through books really quickly, but it was never effective. And then Now I read a book, I'll go in a page and a half, put it down, go to the computer, do some writing or thinking about that.
• 12:03
  Moe Choice: Perfect.
• 12:04
  Joe Rando: Yeah. Makes all the difference.
• 12:08
  Moe Choice: Richard Bach said, you teach best what you wanna learn. So every time I read something I call a friend or I try and send a voice note to Sarah or my team and I say I just got this new idea I'm gonna explain it to you. As I'm explaining I go oh shit I don't know. Oh damn I don't know enough about this or I didn't explain it properly because I'm not a 100% you know what I mean? So you teach best what you want to learn, I think.
• 12:33
  And so teach it to even yourself or go and write down something or figure out how to put it into practice. it's like, I tell people it's an apprenticeship that you need, not education. You need to learn while doing. That's what you need to do my way.
• 12:49
  Joe Rando: We're in the process of, well we've written and now we're editing Solopreneur Business for Dummies for Wiley.
• 12:58
  Moe Choice: I need one.
• 12:59
  Joe Rando: Well, you know, the dummies books, it's a really great format. But anyway, but the fact is, you know, writing it, was like, okay. I've already got all this material. I'm just gonna put it in dummies format. And that is not what happened at all.
• 13:13
  It was like all kinds of new insights. I had the first chapter we wrote, I ended up completely rewriting that chapter in part of the editing process. Like, just completely reverse engineered my part of it. Because with just so much growth went on, just writing something I had already written. I've just not written it in that dummies format, but then thinking through, coming back to it, figuring out how to explain it, and it's completely different and thankfully better than it was before.
• 13:41
  Moe Choice: Well, it's why I create content on social media. It's to test my ideas out, really. It's not to generate virality or any of this stuff. It's like I wanna say something and I wanna see how it lands.
• 13:51
  Joe Rando: Yeah. Yeah.
• 13:52
  Moe Choice: And I think that's right. I mean, everything can be improved. Everything. There's nothing that's perfect in my opinion.
• 14:00
  So I think we gotta keep working at it and see what happens.
• 14:03
  Carly Ries: Have you ever tried a really good slice of pizza? I don't know if that can always be improved.
• 14:08
  Joe Rando: Oh. There's always that one pizza from way back when at that place that's gone because because Salvator died.
• 14:19
  Carly Ries: Right. Well, okay. So Moe, like you said, you work with solopreneurs day in and day out. What do you think is the biggest mistake you see time and time again?
• 14:29
  Moe Choice: This idea that I don't have to go the metaphor is fishing. I want fish, my clients, but I don't wanna go fishing. It's like, so what do you want? The fish to come and knock on your door? You want the fish to just jump in your boat?
• 14:43
  And that's this idea about passive income and all this nonsense. You know what I mean? It's like what makes passive income? Like great books and great music.
• 14:52
  That's probably it. Like Freddie Mercury, We Are The Champions is passive income because that song is just gonna be played everywhere for the rest of time, and he's gonna get paid royalties or whoever owns his rights. Like it's just such a dumb idea that I can do nothing, and I'm gonna create something so good that it's going to stand the test of time and make me money forever.
• 15:13
  Joe Rando: you're right. Because it's been done. But so you know, there are famous singers, famous actors, and some people have made a lot of passive income without working hard. But it's not any easier than becoming a famous actor or a famous musician.
• 15:30
  Moe Choice: No. And when people tell me, Joe, I make a passive income, I want to understand, show me how. Right? Because a lot of the times, there are parts of it that's passive.
• 15:41
  Right. You're still branding yourself, you're still doing things, you know what I mean? So I think this is the lazy idea. And here's the thing: if you know how to fish, then you can try and figure out the shortcuts. The mistake, Carly, to your question is, I'm not going to learn how to fish.
• 15:59
  And I'm going to go and find shortcuts to get the getting the fish. Learn how to fish, then delegate or find someone else to do it or decide you don't want to do it. But this idea that I don't want to learn how to go fishing when that's your job, is to go and find customers as a solopreneur. That's by the way, this is what I say to people. If you don't have customers, your only job as a solopreneur is to find customers.
• 16:24
  Carly Ries: Yeah. It's so true. Yet again, so simple. Well, okay. so in the sake of simplicity, you have a six figure freedom framework, if I'm not mistaken. What is that?
• 16:36
  Moe Choice: It's a mouthful. That's what that is.
• 16:37
  Joe Rando: It's right.
• 16:39
  Carly Ries: I named Solopreneur Success Sessions, which I've regretted ever since as one of our event names.
• 16:46
  Moe Choice: So here is the idea behind it. The freedom is not just from the money, although as you spoke earlier it's a big big part of it. That's the 6 figure part, right? The framework is this idea that I'm not going to tell you what to do, I'm going to show you what you need to figure out. That's why it's a framework not a process.
• 17:09
  So, again, how are you going to position yourself in the market is my question. Now you're gonna have to figure that out, or I can help you figure it out. How are you going to test the market? With your offer? You might not know how to build an offer, to test the market.
• 17:23
  I might help you, but you need to answer that question. That's the framework. How do I engage with people about my offer and then persuade them? So the acronym's POOP, which is position, offer, outreach, persuasion.
• 17:40
  Joe Rando: I just can't tell you how much I and my four year old granddaughter love that.
• 17:47
  Carly Ries: No. I've seen you for half hour, maybe forty five minutes now at this point between our other conversation, and that just seems so on brand. I don't know. I'm just like, you know, he would. I don't know. He wouldn't mind.
• 18:03
  Moe Choice: My outreach framework was called kaka, which means poop so that's my outreach framework. But that's the 6 figure freedom framework. If you figure out those four things, you will get to 6 figures. And then poops. If you want to scale, that's what gets you to 7 figures.
• 18:23
  The scale part is post $50.60 grand a month.
• 18:27
  Carly Ries: Yeah. I mean it just makes sense and I cannot wait to put your framework acronym in our show notes.
• 18:32
  Moe Choice: You're gonna put your poop. You're gonna get your poop in order, Carly.
• 18:35
  Carly Ries: Put it down on paper. Moe, so for people that are scrambling right now and they feel like they're working day in and day out, What's a quick win for people to escape that being busy trap and freeing up some of that time or using their time for things
• 18:57
  Moe Choice: You have got Me thinking now about relationship with time. I struggle with time, you know? I don't even know if it really exists to be honest with you.
• 19:04
  Joe Rando: Well, technically it doesn't.
• 19:08
  Moe Choice: And I think that's a different podcast maybe,
• 19:11
  Joe Rando: Definitely a physics podcast, but
• 19:14
  Moe Choice: The question I ask about time is do I have the time to do, so my definition of solopreneur is not solo entrepreneur or solo business owner. My version, my definition of solopreneur is I'm living life on my own terms. Unashamedly, without having to ask anyone's permission. That's my definition of a solopreneur.
• 19:35
  Joe Rando: That's our definition too. 100%.
• 19:39
  Moe Choice: So the time question is, do I have the time to live life on my own terms? That's the only question. And what's taking my time away that's not living life, that's not helping me to live life on my own terms? So for example, when I look at my calendar and I go, oh my god, why am I meeting them? That's some form of time that I want to win back because I don't want to be meeting these people at that time.
• 20:05
  And it's the same with tasks and all that stuff. So I think this is an answer to your question. When you get good at something, then it's delegatable. When you get good at something and you learn it, then it's delegatable. Why?
• 20:19
  Because you know how to do it, which means you can manage the delegation and you can hold them to account for how well they delegated, how well they did the task. And this is what people make a mistake on. They delegate the stuff they don't know how to do, which means you can't hold them to account for a certain standard because you've never done it. It's like someone who's never sold and he says, Joe you're my sales guy, you have to close one in three deals and blah blah. It's like how do you know that if you've never done it? and then the other advantage of that is you wanna give away the stuff you know how to do so you can spend time on the stuff you don't know how to do. Which means you're constantly The thing we talked about earlier about how do you keep growing is to grow your competence. So that's where you buy time. And ultimately there's gonna be a point where you've increased your competence so much, and you've delegated so much of what you need to do that you've got so much time back, and you're getting better results than you were getting to begin with. There's gonna be a point where that happens, for sure.
• 21:20
  Joe Rando: So I wanna challenge you a little bit because I get what you're saying, and I get the logic, but you know, one of the things that I learned a while back was that I have some things I'm good at and some things I'm not good at. And these are things that I will never be good at.
• 21:40
  Moe Choice: Example?
• 21:40
  Joe Rando: Anything t related to clerical organizing, you know, paperwork, bookkeeping, anything like that, that just requires this kind of organization. you describe yourself as a mad scientist.
• 21:57
  Moe Choice: You know how to do it, though, Joe. You know how to organize it.
• 22:01
  Joe Rando: I guess I just can't do it well.
• 22:05
  Moe Choice: Okay. Fair. Fair.
• 22:07
  I agree with that.
• 22:07
  Joe Rando: And I found wonderful people to help me, with respect to, you know, organizing everything and doing the bookkeeping, accounting, tax stuff. And, you know, I do not understand The US tax code at all. And when I get my tax returns for my businesses or even my personal ones, I just sign them. Because I don't have a clue. And I don't have time.
• 22:32
  Moe Choice: It's the same as law. I'm not telling you to go and learn law before you get a lawyer. That's fair so I'll stand corrected. In the craft of yours, in persuasion, in marketing, and in positioning Okay. Four things we talked about, you don't want to delegate anything until you've learned it.
• 22:48
  Joe Rando: Okay. Good. Fair. I'm glad I asked.
• 22:52
  Moe Choice: Because I can go back to even the hairdresser thing. Well, I'm not gonna delegate to my hairdresser unless I learn how to cut hair. Of course not. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right.
• 23:02
  Joe Rando: Especially your own hair. That's hard. I remember during during COVID, my hair got long. And I'm like, I'm gonna cut my hair. And I sat there in the mirror with the scissors going, this is not gonna go well. And my wife saved me.
• 23:15
  Moe Choice: It's absolutely right. That's a fair challenge. And the thing is, you know, you don't have to be a good musician or a musician even to know good music. You don't have to be a good chef to appreciate good food or a movie producer to appreciate a good movie. I think with things like admin it's also like that.
• 23:33
  You can appreciate good admin and spot it and challenge bad admin without needing to be good at it. I think that's one of those that that fits in there.
• 23:41
  Carly Ries: Okay. Moe, we could literally talk to you all day. You're just the coolest guy. Have to end at some point. So you help solopreneurs find success. We always ask our guests this question, what is your favorite quote about success?
• 23:55
  Moe Choice: Success is like the rent needs to be paid every month.
• 23:58
  Carly Ries: Oh. Elaborate.
• 24:00
  Joe Rando: Never heard that one.
• 24:00
  Moe Choice: You don't just achieve success. It's a state. It's a process. So you're successful here, and you have to either maintain it, or get another form of success. There's no permanent success.
• 24:13
  Joe Rando: That's a new one. Good. Good stuff.
• 24:15
  Moe Choice: American football coach. I can't remember who. I'm not even gonna guess.
• 24:22
  Not Vince Lombardi or one of those. It's someone that doesn't have any other good quotes because I went and looked them up. And I was like, it might have even been a player, not a coach. I don't know. But you guys can look it up. Success is like the rent. I think the quote is success is like the rent, it's due every month. I think that's the quote.
• 24:38
  Carly Ries: Okay. Perfect. Well, Moe, this has been so insightful. You're just great. Where can people find you to learn more?
• 24:45
  Moe Choice: You can Google Moe there's only one MoeChoice. So you can Google MoeChoice. LinkedIn is where I hang out the most, and I've got something for your audience if they would like. I run a live master class where I teach the framework, the six figure framework. I give you the framework, I explain to you how it works, I show you how successful it was and how it is and how it has been, and I run this once every few weeks.
• 25:07
  So if you go to moechoice, moechoice.com/podcast, you can sign up. And for your guests who sign up to that, they'll get two other bonuses as well. It's explained on the landing page, and they can sign up for my master class. And then you can see me deliver live my 6 figure freedom framework.
• 25:26
  Joe Rando: Alright.
• 25:27
  Carly Ries: So nice of you to do. We will include all that in the show notes. Thank you so much, and thank you so so much for coming on the show.
• 25:33
  Moe Choice: Thank you for having me.
• 25:35
  Carly Ries: And listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. As always, please leave that five star review. Share this episode with a friend, and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform including YouTube. And we will see you next time on The Aspiring Solopreneur. You may be going solo in business, but that doesn't mean you're alone.
• 25:53
  In fact, millions of people are in your shoes, running a one person business and figuring it out as they go. So why not connect with them and learn from each other's successes and failures? At LifeStarr, we're creating a one person business community where you can go to meet and get advice from other solopreneurs. Be sure to join in on the conversations at community.lifestarr.com.