Latest / She Speaks Life - Christian Women, Strengthen Your Faith, Bible Study, Grow Spiritually In Christ / The Lies That Divide Women And Get In The Way Of Sacred Sisterhoood With Natalie Runion

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The Lies That Divide Women And Get In The Way Of Sacred Sisterhoood With Natalie Runion · She Speaks Life - Christian Women, Strengthen Your Faith, Bible Study, Grow Spiritually In Christ

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  Hey, welcome back to She Speaks Life.
• 0:02
  Hey, if you haven't already caught on yet, in addition to
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  the interview episodes, I also have been doing solo episodes
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  called Fuel Your Life, where we're diving into ways to
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  fortify our faith and to put into practice God's word over
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  any situation we face, putting truth into action, along with
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  stocking the fire of the Holy Spirit that is in US.
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  And in these teaching episodes, we will be personalizing
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  scripture and I'll be walking us through powerful ways that will
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  bring us into a deeper relationship with Jesus and
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  letting the Holy Spirit lead us with enthusiasm for everything
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  God has planned for us. If you want to follow along, you
• 0:47
  can jump to my website and get your copy of the Serenity
• 0:50
  Journal, but it's absolutely not required to engage in these solo
• 0:55
  teaching episodes. OK, I hope you'll meet me there
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  to today I have with me best selling author and pastor
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  Natalie Rooney talking about her book called I don't Even like
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  women and other lies that get in the way of sacred sisterhood.
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  In this episode, Natalie tackles the struggles many Christian
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  women face in building meaningful friendships.
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  And with her signature honesty and biblical insight, Natalie
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  flips the script on the lies that keep us distant and the
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  fear of rejection Going through comparison and past hurts, and
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  really shows us how God's design for Sacred sisterhood can
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  transform our spiritual journey. Drawing from her raised to stay
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  ministry and personal experiences, Natalie offers
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  practical steps to heal and embrace life giving female
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  relationships. This book she wrote equips us to
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  move beyond insecurities, foster spiritual growth, and live out
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  your calling with boldness and joy.
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  I absolutely love my time with Natalie, and I know you will
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  too. So OK, if you're ready, I'm
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  ready. Here's my guest, Natalie
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  Roonian. Hi, Natalie.
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  Welcome to She Speaks Live. I'm so excited you are on here
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  with us today. Oh gosh, thanks so much for
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  having me, Jamie. It's great to be with you guys.
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  I've had so much fun reading your book that we are going to
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  be diving into. It's called I Don't Even Like
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  Women and Other lies that get in the way of sacred sisterhood.
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  And I just got a laugh because I have a testimony about this that
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  I'm going to share in a minute. But also, as I was reading your
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  book, it's like sitting on my couch and my kids are home from
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  college and they know I'm in the women's ministry and they know I
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  have. She speaks like podcasts.
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  It's all about women. So all they're seeing is the
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  bold title. I don't even like women.
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  So they were like, Oh my goodness, what's going on with
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  mom? Are you OK?
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  You don't like women anymore? So I just love it because then
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  in the subtitle you have and other lies that get in the way
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  of sacred sisterhood. So we are going to be talking
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  about the lies that get in the way of us really nurturing and
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  flourishing in our female friendships with each other.
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  So I'm so glad you're on here to share this important, essential
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  message with us. And before we do, I always love
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  to start it off with asking the guests what is their favorite
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  Scripture verse and why. You know, I have been spending a
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  ton of time in the book of Acts this new year and I have found
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  myself in Acts chapter 1, the very beginning in verse 12
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  through 14. And the disciples have just
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  basically watched Jesus ascend into heaven.
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  And I'm sure they were disappointed that they weren't
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  going to get to finish out their ministry with him.
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  And it says in that Scripture that the disciples decided that
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  they were in this together until the very end, completely united
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  in prayer. And I was just thinking about
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  how we as the church, if we could just get our minds wrapped
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  around this, that we are in this together, completely united in
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  prayer. It even says in the message
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  translation, message translation, the women included,
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  that was Jesus's mother, Mary. And I just love how we, as both
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  male and female, brothers and sisters, we're in this together
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  to the very end, completely united in prayer and mission
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  with the Great Commission. And so I've been really inspired
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  by that as I've been talking to other podcasters and Christians
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  and pastors just to spur us on together as the family of God
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  that we sit in this like, you know, spiritual upper room that
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  we're in now. And we just know no matter how
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  hard it gets, we're going to keep going to the very end.
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  I love that, you know, and it's just an important reminder to
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  have that unity because together we can build the Kingdom way
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  better. I mean, we're not meant to build
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  the Kingdom by ourselves individually.
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  We're meant to build the Kingdom together.
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  And it's, it's what you are talking about in this book is
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  getting rid of that junk that gets in the way of unity.
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  And so this is the stuff that we're going to be getting into.
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  And so so here we go. I I'm so glad you are on here
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  listening to this message, my friend, and love that you're on
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  here, Natalie, to just give us this practical help to
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  strengthen relationships inside the church and outside.
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  And I know you talk a lot about that in the book.
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  And as a body of Christ, as sisters in Christ, you talk
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  about sacred sisterhood and what that actually is and how can we
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  really live that out. So I just wanted to share
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  briefly that I had my own experience.
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  I was in a church plant and the pastors wife just woman's
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  ministry was not her gig. She did.
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  She did not like it. And so we had our first ladies
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  night out at her home, and she announced to all the women there
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  that she doesn't even like women.
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  And everybody just was like gasped, you know, they're like
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  stunned, Wait, did we just hear that right?
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  You know, like, so. And she did this to introduce me
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  to be the women's ministry lead or director.
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  And it was just so funny because I thought, wow, that was pretty
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  transparent. I know she's shared that with me
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  and that's why she didn't want to take on the role.
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  And she's like, you know, you've got the gift for this, you know,
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  take over. But I never thought in a million
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  years that would come out of her mouth in front of the women.
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  So we are going to talk about this title that you have on this
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  book. And it's so intriguing and
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  compelling. So tell us about your story on
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  this and why you wrote this book.
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  Why this title? Well, I've been a pastors kid
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  and then went into full time ministry pretty quickly into my
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  20s and 30s and I was always in worship.
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  I was a worship leader, worship pastor and I was also a gym
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  teacher. You know, when you start out in
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  ministry, a lot of times you're by vocational.
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  And so as a worship leader, as someone in an athletic field, I
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  was around a lot of guys, you know, and I would always just
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  say, well, I just get along better with guys.
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  You know, it's kind of what I said.
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  I never did a sorority in college.
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  I was always just in mixed groups a lot more than I was
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  with all women. And so when I was about 40, I
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  was on church staff as a worship leader, and I got a call one day
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  to come see my boss. And he sat me down.
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  And he's like, look, Natalie, we think you're a great worship
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  leader, but we think you actually have a teaching gift,
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  and we want to move you into the women's pastor role.
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  And I remember sitting there and just being like, I didn't move
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  my family, you know, 1200 miles to be a women's pastor.
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  And I literally looked at him and I said, why would you do
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  that? I don't even like women.
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  Like, what makes you think that I would even want this job?
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  And it was over the course of being their women's pastor for
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  five or six years that I actually did start to have my
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  heart broken for God's daughters.
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  I learned that I didn't just love women, I actually liked
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  them. And then as raised to stay, the
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  ministry that I have now started to expand.
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  I left church staff and I travel now all over the world,
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  preaching and teaching, teaching at churches.
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  And I do a lot of women's conferences.
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  And so when I get picked up from the airport, I typically start
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  some conversation and I'll ask the pastor's wife or the women's
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  pastor. So how did you get into this
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  role? And I'm not even joking.
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  Over the last three years, 9 out of 10 women will literally say
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  these words or some variation of, I don't know, I don't even
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  like women. And I found myself so intrigued
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  by that. I was like, you know what my
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  next book needs to be called? I don't even like women because
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  there is a reason that out of all of the things that women
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  could be unified on, this is something that actually unifies
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  us is our not liking each other. And really psychologically, what
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  are we actually saying when we say that?
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  And so this book became kind of like a passion project for me to
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  just really unpack what are we saying when we say that?
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  Do we mean it or is it just kind of a disclaimer because we've
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  just heard everybody else say it?
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  Right, yeah, I know, I I hear it a lot too.
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  But and I love how God will use us in areas that, you know, is
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  not by human understanding something that we have a passion
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  for. So there's something there that
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  God wants to work through US and it's character building.
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  And, you know, there's a lot of things that go into being a a
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  pastor over women's ministry. There's a lot of different
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  things you got to deal with, different personalities and, you
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  know, leadership, but then people that are participants,
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  attendees of the church and just the dynamics and having to work
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  through it all. And so it's not an easy job.
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  I commend you, but I'm sure it gets you on your knees daily to
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  just get downloads from the Lord and take your prayers and
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  everything else that you need to get through this role that God
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  has put you in. And so I love for you to share.
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  You had touched on us being designed as women to build the
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  Kingdom of God and that we need each other.
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  You said that there's some biblical references as to what
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  that means to be sisterhood, how God designed us.
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  What scriptures did you study on at?
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  Well, first of all, there's not a lot of examples in the Bible
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  of friendship in between women. I mean, we see it among men in
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  the Scriptures, but really we know the story of Ruth and Naomi
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  as just. That's a very popular story for
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  women's conferences. And we see a little bit of this
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  relationship between Mary and Elizabeth where we see, you
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  know, Mary finds out she's pregnant with Jesus.
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  She runs to Elizabeth, who's her cousin, who's also pregnant with
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  John the Baptist, who had been waiting for a child for a very
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  long time. And Mary comes in and kind of
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  steals her Thunder and is like, hey, look, I'm pregnant too.
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  But I'm not only pregnant, I'm pregnant with the Son of God.
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  And we see how, you know, Elizabeth could have been
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  jealous of that, but instead she begins to prophecy over Mary and
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  who Mary was carrying. And even John and the Baptist
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  leaps in her womb at the presence of being in the
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  presence of God. And so we see little examples of
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  what it looks like to be what we would call a sacred sister.
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  Now, when I use that word sacred, I don't mean like a
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  Beyoncé or a Taylor Swift sisterhood.
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  What I'm talking about is a sanctuary of sisterhood.
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  I'm talking about a safe place. When we think of something being
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  sacred, it's set apart. It's purposefully set to be
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  something that one can walk into and find a safe haven.
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  It's a place that has been consecrated for a purpose.
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  And I believe that as women from the beginning, when God
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  intentionally made us in the garden.
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  And I start the book off talking about this garden tension where
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  the snake comes in and he targets the woman and he gets
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  her to question if God actually said what she heard him say and
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  how the lies already start at the beginning of creation and
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  creeping into women's minds about our identity and about
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  what God is speaking over us. And so throughout the entire
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  book, I take us on what I hope is a biblical journey to see
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  that sisterhood isn't just sleepovers and girls weekends
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  and braiding each other's hair and girl power and feminism, but
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  it's a safe sanctuary for women to have maybe just one or two
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  women in our lives who hold us accountable, who sit with us in
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  hard seasons, who are our secret keepers, who help us raise our
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  babies or walk us through singlehood or whatever that
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  looks like. That will be.
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  Our rider dies. And I don't mean that in what we
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  often see as a friendship in the movies.
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  These are the scripts that I kind of talk about.
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  You know, I'm not talking about sitcom friendship.
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  I'm talking about those friends that sit with you through the
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  loss of a spouse and the loss of parents and, you know, getting
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  divorced and going through life changes that a lot of times make
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  us feel like we need to isolate. And so Sacred Sisterhood is
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  finding that safe friendship, that sister who will walk with
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  you even when things aren't good, and stay with you.
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  And it's that safe space that so many of us are longing for.
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  Yeah, that's so good. And I'm just like, while you're
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  speaking about this, I'm just imagining myself like in a room
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  and even when it's like a Bible study at someone's house.
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  How so many of us don't get up and give a warm embrace or a
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  hug. It's just, you know, like, hi,
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  you know, and we instantly kind of have this wall up for no
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  reason. What what do you think that is
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  like stemming from the maybe we're feeling insecure right
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  away. It's us.
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  We don't want to be rejected if we did stand up and hug
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  somebody. But like, why do we have this
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  automatic, I shouldn't say coldness, but just not this warm
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  embrace because I know when I've walked in the room and there was
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  that one lady that came and like gave me this Big Bear hug.
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  It was like, oh, you know, I belong.
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  I have a seat at this table, you know, and I remember do that to
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  the other, to the person coming, you know, you do that.
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  You know how it feels. So you do that.
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  So why is it just this though? Like not an automatic thing for
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  us? I mean, I think it traces back
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  to our childhood, to our teenage years.
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  There are so many scripts that are written for us when we go
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  into elementary school. So you'll hear about the Mean
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  Girls or the girls who don't let you sit at their table or the
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  girls that don't play with you at recess.
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  And when I think back to being a kid in the 80s and 90s, I mean,
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  we were all about our outfits and our hair.
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  And, you know, you hung with people who looked like you and
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  who had the same kind of house as you.
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  And so you begin to believe these scripts that I'm only
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  wanted in these circles or I'm only accepted with these types
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  of people. And then you get to high school.
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  And those then are even more so amplified through clicks and
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  through different demographics of people.
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  And if you watch old shows from the 90s, it's like, these are
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  the jocks and these are the cheerleaders, and these are the
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  popular kids, and these are the nerds, right?
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  So people are categorized at very young ages and then we get
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  into the church or we get into corporate America and now we'll,
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  these are the leaders and these are the CEO's and these are the
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  ones who went to college and these are the ones who are in
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  sororities. And we're constantly being
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  categorized based off of scripts written for us by the world, not
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  by the Bible. And then we find ourselves in a
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  Bible study or in a small group or in a church where we should
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  all be on equal ground, where everyone is a child of God,
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  everyone is created equal in the eyes and the of God.
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  And those scripts are still screaming over us.
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  They don't look like you, they don't sound like you.
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  You don't know them, you can't trust them.
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  That woman seems so catty. That woman looks like she would
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  be really like a gossip. And we immediately start writing
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  scripts for each other. And so we're sitting in a room
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  and we're already assigning people where they belong before
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  we even have a conversation based off of our own
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  insecurities. And you're right.
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  All it takes is one woman crossing that bridge and giving
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  a hug to break that. I used to break that wall down.
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  But the question is, who will be the model of a sanctuary of
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  sisterhood in those rooms when we're all afraid of the word you
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  used rejection. So good and so true.
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  I love reading about the chapter about gossip because I think
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  that is a huge struggle among women is gossip, and it's
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  actually one of the things in Proverbs, I believe it is
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  Proverbs 6 that God hates is gossip.
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  But we tend to get entrapped in it.
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  Either, you know, we're doing the gossip or we're just
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  associated in it in a conversation.
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  So how do we deal with gossip when that is so relevant around
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  us? You know, I feel like gossip is
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  one of those easy things that women can unite on.
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  It's I don't have to talk about myself.
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  We don't have to talk about you. We can talk about someone else
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  that we equally don't like or that we are equally, you know,
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  embarrassed of or whatever it might be.
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  And so it looks like it's unifying when in reality, it's
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  the most divisive thing we can do because we've learned with
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  time, hopefully, that people who gossip with us probably gossip
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  about us. And I know in the church, a lot
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  of times gossip comes in the form of prayer requests.
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  We sit in a room and we say, well, I heard this about sister
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  so and so's daughter or this divorce or this affair.
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  And we're all very concerned about this.
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  And this is a pseudo sisterhood. Gossip creates a pseudo
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  sisterhood that is not sacred. It's actually the most unsafe
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  sisterhood that you can be in because gossip is just the egos
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  demand to be heard when we have nothing important or of value to
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  say. And so when we sit in a room and
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  we're gossiping, it's either because we're actually very
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  unimaginable people or we're just not nice and we are hateful
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  and we're exactly what our parents told us not to be.
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  If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at
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  all. And so the thing that's
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  infuriating about gossip is I believe the enemy uses it to
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  create a pseudo sisterhood that actually makes us more afraid of
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  each other than for each other. And the buck has to stop with us
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  as believers. Like when we are in a room and
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  gossip starts, it has to to stop with us.
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  And I don't know about you, but I've never been in a room where
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  I've said something and actually retracted that and said, wow,
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  I'm really sorry. I shouldn't have said that.
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  Please forgive me. Where someone has actually been
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  angry at me for repenting for gossip.
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  It's actually raised the level of the room when I have said,
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  whoa, that's too far. I shouldn't have said that.
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  Like, I take it back. I think we have to start being
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  better models of that as women of God, in the church
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  especially. Yeah, take responsibility for
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  it. And I think, too, the more we're
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  entrenched in the Word on a daily basis, and we're just
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  automatically more sensitive to the Holy Spirit and that
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  conviction like before you open your mouth.
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  You usually kind of get this tug, like maybe you shouldn't be
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  saying that, you know, And so you hold back and you hold your
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  tongue and you don't say it or, you know, you make a mistake and
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  you do say it. And I love how you said, you
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  know, be upfront about it, apologize right away.
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  And so I think that definitely diffuses it all and holds it
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  back from spreading like wildfire.
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  Yeah. So good on that definition on
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  gossip and how we can avoid it. And I always tell my daughter,
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  like, just step away. Be like, I I don't want to be a
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  part of this conversation. Just step away If like you're in
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  a group setting, right, of gossip.
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  Was that, is that something you would suggest if you were like
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  in in a Group, A conversation and there's like a handful of
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  you just kind of we shouldn't be talking about this.
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  I mean, it takes a very confident young woman,
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  especially in a group of people, to be the voice of reason.
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  And I think again, to your point of rejection, if you are already
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  operating with insecurities about your own identity in that
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  group or your own belongingness, you're more likely to just join
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  in rather than be the voice that says, I can't be part of this
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  because then it puts all that attention back on you that
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  you've been trying to avoid. You know, I think of the story
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  of the stoning of of Steven and how all of these people are
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  throwing stones. And they said, though in the
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  scriptures, it says that though I think it was that Saul Paul
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  was there, he was holding the coats.
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  And I think what's so interesting is that a lot of us
• 21:41
  may not be the ones throwing the words of gossip, but we could be
• 21:44
  holding the coats of those who are.
• 21:46
  And I do believe that for a lot of women, we've become coat
• 21:49
  holders out of just our sheer fear of being rejected by the
• 21:53
  group we're trying to feel wanted in.
• 21:55
  And gossip just feels like a low hanging fruit to belong.
• 21:59
  And so I always say, you may not be throwing the stone, but you
• 22:02
  might be holding the coat and and that's just as equally as
• 22:05
  bad. Yeah, and I think that fear of
• 22:09
  rejection goes all the way back to us and our identity in Christ
• 22:15
  right and feeling worthy and I I just wanted to read something
• 22:20
  that I dog eared. I mean, you had so many good
• 22:24
  things in this book. I I was like highlighting,
• 22:26
  tagging everything but talking about insecurity and the fear of
• 22:31
  rejection. It just stems from not really
• 22:34
  knowing who you are in Christ your identity and it was at the
• 22:38
  very tail end of page 83 and you said sister you are more than
• 22:42
  what you do for God. Your worth lies and being a Co
• 22:45
  heir with Christ who has a seat at the table of the almighty
• 22:48
  King who owns the cattle on 1000 hills and you lack nothing.
• 22:53
  Your security is found in your eternal home, not your earthly
• 22:58
  assignment. Your value is in what you store
• 23:02
  in heaven, not here on this earth.
• 23:06
  And I think if we like, walked around just with this one
• 23:09
  paragraph, it would get rid of that fear of rejection.
• 23:13
  It would get rid of that insecurity and therefore get rid
• 23:18
  of gossip because like you said, it's all stemmed from that.
• 23:21
  Why we gossip? Yeah, and the identity piece,
• 23:25
  again, is built into us at such an early age that This is why
• 23:29
  professional biblical counseling is such a beautiful tool in the
• 23:32
  family of God. It's why having counselors and
• 23:36
  disciples and mentors to really help us debunk these lies we've
• 23:39
  believed about ourselves. So when we say we don't like
• 23:42
  women, a lot of the times it's because we don't like ourselves.
• 23:45
  And there are things about women that strike a chord in a
• 23:49
  negative way with us because it's like looking in a mirror.
• 23:52
  Like I don't want to be that and so I don't want to be around
• 23:55
  that because I don't want to be that.
• 23:57
  And a lot of that just comes from this lack of identity.
• 24:00
  We see ourselves as orphans instead of Co heirs.
• 24:03
  We see ourselves with a scarcity mentality and having generosity
• 24:07
  be our guide. And so we can't be generous if
• 24:10
  we're constantly afraid we're going to lose something.
• 24:12
  And so that identity piece is something that we have to 1st
• 24:15
  work on in ourselves before we can demand it from other people.
• 24:20
  And I also have to understand that my worth is not tied to how
• 24:23
  a woman perceives me or how I'm welcomed into a certain group of
• 24:27
  people. And again, this is daily
• 24:30
  surrender of saying, OK, God, I am yours before I am theirs.
• 24:33
  I am walking with you before I'm walking with them.
• 24:36
  Like, there has to be just such a constant brain shift all the
• 24:40
  time. And I think we get tired.
• 24:42
  We're we it's exhausting to wake up every day and have to renew
• 24:45
  our mind. But to your point, being in the
• 24:48
  word of God is the only way to renew our mind.
• 24:50
  Yeah. It all goes back.
• 24:53
  That's word, right? So good.
• 24:55
  It's foundational. It's Our Daily Bread.
• 24:58
  We have to eat it daily and nurse ourselves spiritually,
• 25:01
  physically, emotionally. OK, how do what's the antidote
• 25:06
  for jealousy? Let's talk a little bit about
• 25:08
  jealousy in comparison. What's the antidote?
• 25:11
  Because I know that is something that you know, is a toxic thing
• 25:16
  among women also. I believe the antidote is
• 25:20
  generosity, radical generosity. When I think about preferring
• 25:25
  women over myself now that doesn't mean putting my health
• 25:29
  over other people. It doesn't mean being the
• 25:30
  sacrificial lamb. I'm not talking about that.
• 25:33
  But when I am in a role of a leader or I'm part of a team and
• 25:38
  I began to champion other women to do their God-given called
• 25:42
  thing without thinking that their win is my loss or their
• 25:47
  success is my failure. When I am generous with my time,
• 25:50
  my talent, my treasure, every resource that I have, and I
• 25:55
  began to champion women to be the sister that God has called
• 25:59
  them to be. It will defuse jealousy
• 26:01
  comparison competition because it is the heart of the Father.
• 26:05
  And that is something that we as women, I believe we are
• 26:09
  caregivers at heart, but I also believe that we are generous at
• 26:14
  heart. And if the enemy is afraid, he
• 26:16
  has to be afraid of us at some level to fight us the way that
• 26:20
  he does. When it comes to unity, I truly
• 26:22
  believe that unity and generosity are the two biggest
• 26:26
  weapons we have in our tool belt as women to combat some of these
• 26:30
  lies that the enemy is throwing at us.
• 26:32
  And to be generous is not just financially, it's not just with
• 26:37
  our words, but it's with our ability to pastor each other in
• 26:41
  seasons where we feel most isolated ourselves.
• 26:45
  So I might be going through a hard thing as sisters going
• 26:48
  through a hard thing, but I'm going to take the casserole to
• 26:51
  their house, even though I really wish somebody would bring
• 26:54
  me a casserole. There is something about that,
• 26:57
  that generosity that we then get in return.
• 27:01
  And I think that yes, there are going to be seasons that we are
• 27:04
  going to need sisters to be sisters to us.
• 27:06
  And I hear that a lot in the community that I have online is
• 27:10
  I'm just tired of being always being the one who gives and
• 27:13
  gives and I don't get anything back in return.
• 27:16
  And I sit in the tension with women who feel that because I
• 27:18
  felt that way before too. But I've also seen the Lord give
• 27:22
  back to me tenfold, maybe a year down the road, where He has
• 27:28
  blessed me with people that serve me above and beyond.
• 27:31
  And so I would say, don't withhold just because you feel
• 27:34
  like you haven't been receiving in return.
• 27:36
  Continue to be generous and the Lord is going to restore to you
• 27:41
  10 times what you've given. And I do believe that for all of
• 27:44
  us. That's so good because it goes
• 27:47
  back to who are you serving? You're you do things unto the
• 27:51
  Lord, you're serving the Lord and those things that you do.
• 27:54
  And I think our flesh can get involved and be like, well,
• 27:58
  you're not getting anything back in return, you know, but it's
• 28:02
  not about getting something in return from humans, from other
• 28:07
  people. When we give, just knowing that
• 28:10
  God sees us and we're doing it to serve him and that he sees
• 28:15
  it, he'll reward it and it's, you know, an eternal thing, not
• 28:20
  something that we're trying to get from somebody else.
• 28:23
  So I would love for us to talk about.
• 28:27
  I know, I'm sure cattiness just kind of, you know, envelops all
• 28:32
  of this, right? Just, you know, but why do you
• 28:36
  think? Because I see this so much in
• 28:38
  the church, inside the walls of the church, which is so sad.
• 28:42
  We form these groups inside of church often, especially in
• 28:46
  woman's ministry. So how can we overcome that
• 28:49
  cattiness? How can we?
• 28:51
  How can we break that up? Well, we get the word catfight
• 28:54
  or the phrase catfight from cattiness.
• 28:56
  And it really is just when you think about what cats fight
• 29:00
  over, it's they're just looking at each other like there's
• 29:03
  nothing for them to really be mad about.
• 29:05
  I mean, they're just maybe they're on the same territory.
• 29:08
  Maybe they're fighting over a piece of food, but it's never
• 29:11
  anything that's like life or death, right?
• 29:13
  And so I think for a lot of us, this cattiness, this is a
• 29:16
  nitpicking stuff that we just let become a major.
• 29:20
  When it's a minor, it's, it's something that we're having a
• 29:23
  bad day. We might be going through an
• 29:26
  emotional season, we might be having a a hard time and we
• 29:29
  haven't talked to anybody about it.
• 29:30
  And it just takes one thing right to rub us the wrong way.
• 29:33
  And so we'll pick a fight, we'll pick out something that isn't
• 29:37
  even a major and it becomes a major thing.
• 29:40
  And so in the church world, for a lot of women, it comes down to
• 29:45
  conversations. You said this about me.
• 29:49
  Whatever things that if you would just be honest and just be
• 29:52
  willing to have a hard conversation, could be resolved
• 29:54
  in two seconds. And so, so much offense takes
• 29:57
  root. We allow cattiness to rule and
• 30:00
  reign, especially in our women's ministries.
• 30:02
  And so a couple of ways that I really had to combat that in our
• 30:05
  women's ministry, because it was a very large women's ministry
• 30:08
  was #1 not allowing cliques to form based off of age
• 30:12
  demographic, where they went to college, how many children they
• 30:17
  had, single, married. We really went after a multi
• 30:20
  generational, multiethnic, every kind of woman you can think of
• 30:26
  we wanted in that room. And then we assigned them tables
• 30:30
  where they were put at tables with women who didn't look like
• 30:33
  them, didn't grow up like them, didn't worship like them.
• 30:36
  And those women became each other's life group.
• 30:39
  They celebrated births, deaths, weddings, funerals.
• 30:43
  I mean, they were with each other through some pretty big
• 30:45
  life events. And the only way we could really
• 30:47
  get away from that cattiness was to break up those women who were
• 30:51
  in constant competition with each other, whether it was what
• 30:54
  kind of kids they had or grades or sports or whatever that was.
• 30:57
  And for women's ministry in particular, one of the greatest
• 31:01
  divisions we see is amongst the younger women and the older
• 31:03
  women. And we really need multi
• 31:06
  generational leadership in our women's ministries.
• 31:09
  And So what that looks like is creating women's ministries or
• 31:12
  events, if you don't have a women's ministry, at least
• 31:15
  events that are Invitational for high school to women in their
• 31:19
  80s. And that takes a lot of
• 31:21
  intentionality. It takes a team of women who are
• 31:24
  multi generational and it takes time to form that.
• 31:27
  And I will also say that staff women are among some of the most
• 31:32
  caddy because they somehow feel like they are exempt from
• 31:36
  needing to be part of women's ministry.
• 31:38
  And really, they are some of the most influential voices that we
• 31:41
  could have in women's ministry because they know the culture
• 31:45
  the best. And so I am really going after
• 31:48
  staff women to say, I know you work at the church.
• 31:51
  I know your husbands might be pastors, but your role in the
• 31:55
  church cannot be taken by volunteers.
• 31:58
  We need our staff women to help create that culture of unity and
• 32:03
  of inclusion. And it a lot of times we'll take
• 32:06
  those more influential voices to model it for us.
• 32:09
  Yeah, that is so good because just being a part of that, the
• 32:13
  leadership, you don't even realize just in that in itself
• 32:18
  separates. But if we get involved and
• 32:21
  we're, you know, hands on with them, it's just there's no
• 32:25
  separation there. It's not like, oh, I'm on staff
• 32:29
  and I don't, I don't, you know, need to be a part of this, you
• 32:32
  know, but like when staff is involved, like you said, it does
• 32:38
  just blend it together. And also it's crucial to that we
• 32:43
  can pour into others. I think to just not being so
• 32:48
  sensitive. It could be as like, oh, she
• 32:50
  gave me a weird look on Sunday morning, you know, or she didn't
• 32:55
  say hi back or she didn't give me a hug, you know, And I think
• 32:58
  we build these offenses, like you said, we magnify.
• 33:01
  It could be they're having a bad day or whatever.
• 33:04
  They're going through something. We need to operate spiritually
• 33:09
  mature. Like we cannot be these babies
• 33:13
  who are constantly sensitive over all these little tiny
• 33:17
  things that and get rid of assumptions.
• 33:20
  I think we get in trouble when we just assume things and then
• 33:23
  we create these imaginations. I mean, that's the verse cast
• 33:26
  down all imaginations that don't submit to the Word of God, that
• 33:31
  go against the word of God and submit them to the word of God
• 33:35
  by, you know, capturing that thought and turning it into
• 33:38
  truth. And so that is exactly if we do
• 33:41
  that every single time, then we're not going to get offended
• 33:44
  over those tiny little things. And that would avoid this
• 33:47
  cattiness also so. And this, you know, this is this
• 33:51
  might make some people mad, but you know, I honestly do think
• 33:54
  that some women just put off an air about them too, that they
• 33:57
  are the kind of personality that can't be corrected or can't be
• 34:01
  confronted or can't be touched. And you know, we all have
• 34:06
  different personalities. We've all heard about Enneagram
• 34:09
  and personality tests and stuff. But I don't care what test you
• 34:13
  take. It is never an excuse not to be
• 34:17
  Jesus. Yes.
• 34:18
  And I know there are a lot of introverted women who are like,
• 34:20
  why would confront that woman? But she's just so loud or she's
• 34:24
  just so aggressive or she, she's known for, she's just going to
• 34:28
  talk about me. And we have got to get past
• 34:29
  that. We have to be able as sisters to
• 34:31
  allow our iron to sharpen iron the women God has called us to
• 34:35
  be, which is honorable and honest and caring and loving.
• 34:38
  And we do need to treat Matthew 18 as if it's for us as well.
• 34:43
  No matter how scary another woman may perceive to be, that's
• 34:47
  her fallen self. That's not who she is in Christ.
• 34:50
  And nobody is too scary or too intimidating that they aren't to
• 34:55
  be held accountable for not treating people well or
• 34:58
  misbehaving or not being Jesus, you know?
• 35:01
  Yep, so good. That's our goal is to be like
• 35:04
  Jesus here on earth and to grow his Kingdom.
• 35:07
  OK, well I love talking with you and at the end of each
• 35:12
  conversation you have an opportunity to share a take away
• 35:15
  for the listener to ponder on or take action in.
• 35:18
  And then where can we find your book and any goodies you have to
• 35:21
  offer? I just want to encourage every
• 35:23
  woman to not isolate in fear of getting hurt by a sister.
• 35:26
  I think a lot of us as we get older, we just think our circle
• 35:30
  gets smaller and we isolate to just our families or just our,
• 35:33
  our friends or our kids that, you know, maybe we've known our
• 35:36
  whole lives. And I just want to encourage you
• 35:38
  that sacred sisterhood is for all of us.
• 35:40
  And God did create woman for a reason and he has created many
• 35:45
  of us for a reason. And that sacred sisterhood is
• 35:48
  not hard to find, though we will have to fight for it.
• 35:51
  We will have to contend for it, and I think that for a lot of
• 35:56
  us, we're afraid, but I just want to encourage you.
• 35:58
  Don't be afraid. Be the woman at the Bible study
• 36:00
  to go around and give hugs or take cookies or take little
• 36:04
  gifts or just write the note or the e-mail to encourage another
• 36:08
  friend that you maybe haven't seen in a while.
• 36:10
  Just don't isolate yourself out of fear of rejection, but start
• 36:14
  to rewrite the scripts through the word of God over who you are
• 36:18
  so that you can become more confident to invite women into
• 36:21
  your life and into your story. Because we really are A to be
• 36:25
  reckoned with when we're united. Yes, so good.
• 36:28
  Amen. OK, where can people find your
• 36:30
  book and find you? Well, you can follow along with
• 36:33
  the Raised to Stay community over on Instagram and Facebook.
• 36:37
  We talk a lot about healthy church culture over there, women
• 36:40
  being part of that. And all of the books that I have
• 36:43
  written, including this one that comes out September 2nd is on
• 36:46
  Amazon books-a-million Christian book, walmart.com.
• 36:50
  And it would be awesome for everybody to pre-order because
• 36:52
  we really want this book to get out to the nation.
• 36:55
  Yes I know the pre-orders are important girls so get this
• 36:59
  book. I've read it front to back is so
• 37:02
  good. You don't want to miss this
• 37:04
  read. I loved it.
• 37:05
  So thank you Natalie. I just had so much fun having
• 37:10
  this conversation with you. Thank you for having me, it was
• 37:12
  great. Thank.
• 37:14
  You so much for listening today and I trust that God has
• 37:18
  encouraged you through this story.
• 37:20
  Did you know this podcast is on YouTube Hop on there and
• 37:24
  subscribe and you can see a live recording of each episode and
• 37:29
  For more information on this ministry and to access free
• 37:32
  downloads, please visit my website at jamieelizabeth.com.
• 37:37
  That's JAYME elizabeth.com and let's connect beyond this
• 37:43
  podcast by going to my Instagram handle, Jamie Elizabeth.
• 37:46
  She speaks life or Facebook. Until next time, my friend, I
• 37:50
  hope God reveals himself through your own life story.