Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Deep Sea Diver

Transcript

Deep Sea Diver · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

0:08
Speaker 1: Pushkin. Just a quick note here. You can listen to
0:15
Speaker 1: all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist,
0:18
Speaker 1: which you can find a link to in the show
0:20
Speaker 1: notes for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced
0:24
Speaker 1: in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect all right.
0:29
Speaker 1: Enjoy the episode. There's no playbook for successfully releasing music
0:34
Speaker 1: during a pandemic, especially if you're an indie artist. The
0:38
Speaker 1: stakes really couldn't be higher, but Deep Sea Diver has
0:41
Speaker 1: managed to put all that aside to drop a thrilling
0:44
Speaker 1: and relevant new album. That's the lead singer Jessica Dobson
0:49
Speaker 1: singing the title track of Deep Sea Diver's third album,
0:52
Speaker 1: Impossible Wait. While the Seattle based band only recently started
0:56
Speaker 1: their assent in to indie rock stardom, Jessica Dobson has
0:59
Speaker 1: played in some the genre's most defining bands. She toured
1:02
Speaker 1: the world as lead guitarists for Beck and the Shins
1:05
Speaker 1: and played keyboard and bass for the Yeah Yeah Yaz.
1:08
Speaker 1: In twenty fifteen, Jessica formed Deep Sea Diver with her
1:11
Speaker 1: husband and drummer Peter Manson, and the wake of their
1:14
Speaker 1: new album, Broken Record producer Leah Rose talked to Jessica
1:18
Speaker 1: about how I Stay at Home livestream series inspired her
1:21
Speaker 1: to write a pandemic anthem and record time. Jessica also
1:25
Speaker 1: talks about how volunteering at a shelter for homeless sex
1:27
Speaker 1: workers helped her overcome a vicious bout of depression and
1:31
Speaker 1: write what she considers to be the best album of
1:33
Speaker 1: her career. This is broken record liner notes for the
1:40
Speaker 1: digital Age. I'm justin Richmondson. Here's Leah Rose with Jessica
1:48
Speaker 1: Dobson of Deep Sea Diver. Let's talk a little bit
1:52
Speaker 1: about your new album. Yeah, so, how has the pandemic
1:56
Speaker 1: changed the release and the marketing? Well, you know, most dramatically,
2:01
Speaker 1: no touring for everybody, that's you know, the most foreign thing.
2:06
Speaker 1: Usually this is the time you're getting ready to hit
2:08
Speaker 1: the road and like, if there's any momentum, keep pushing
2:11
Speaker 1: that momentum forward, you know. And that's always been how
2:15
Speaker 1: we've gained new new fans and follows. Is just like
2:20
Speaker 1: with the live show and meeting other bands on the road,
2:23
Speaker 1: and it really is devastating, but we've tried to pivot
2:28
Speaker 1: and be as scrappy as possible and you know, try
2:32
Speaker 1: to figure out what it looks like for us to
2:35
Speaker 1: I guess the only presence you can have now is online,
2:38
Speaker 1: and so just like figuring out how we want to
2:41
Speaker 1: do that and be creative with that that medium, and
2:45
Speaker 1: then have you had to sort of reimagine how you
2:48
Speaker 1: present the live show or even the new music now
2:51
Speaker 1: that everything's just kind of like on zoom or you're
2:53
Speaker 1: live streaming. Absolutely for a while we were doing like
2:58
Speaker 1: a weekly live stream when this first hit and Stop
3:02
Speaker 1: Pretending came out of the stay home tours like live
3:06
Speaker 1: streams that we were doing on Sunday nights, and Peter
3:09
Speaker 1: had this like crazy idea, like I think it was
3:12
Speaker 1: the first live stream we did. At the end of
3:15
Speaker 1: the live stream, he played a drum beat We recorded
3:18
Speaker 1: it live as we were showing people it on like Instagram,
3:21
Speaker 1: and he said, Okay, this drum beat that I just played,
3:24
Speaker 1: we recorded it and we're going to upload it to dropbox.
3:26
Speaker 1: Whoever wants to download it, take it and write your
3:29
Speaker 1: own song to it. At the end of that week,
3:32
Speaker 1: like people's submissions were due, because I was so interested
3:35
Speaker 1: to see, like, Okay, obviously everyone has a different brain,
3:37
Speaker 1: different melotic sensibilities. There's going to be so many different submission.
3:41
Speaker 1: I actually didn't know how many people were going to participate,
3:43
Speaker 1: and we ended up getting like seventy people sent in
3:46
Speaker 1: songs with this one looped drum beat, and towards the
3:50
Speaker 1: end of the week when it was due, I hadn't
3:52
Speaker 1: even started writing on that drum beat yet, and I
3:55
Speaker 1: was like, that's kind of lame if I asked people
3:56
Speaker 1: to write, like write a song, but I don't even
3:59
Speaker 1: do it. Yeah. So I sat in the studio and
4:04
Speaker 1: I tried to write to the drum beat, and whatever
4:06
Speaker 1: was coming out was kind of lifeless. And I ended
4:08
Speaker 1: up going on a walk and I came back and
4:12
Speaker 1: then stop pretending just came out. So it was written
4:15
Speaker 1: in a day, it was mixed the next day by
4:18
Speaker 1: me in the home studio, and then it was released
4:20
Speaker 1: the next day after that. Never done anything like that.
4:23
Speaker 1: And it has the line everything's falling apart. Yeah, honey,
4:28
Speaker 1: I can't pretend to understand why everything's falling apart. Yeah. Yeah,
4:32
Speaker 1: I've been singing that around the house my little two
4:34
Speaker 1: year old sweet yea, so good, thank you. Yeah. I
4:39
Speaker 1: definitely was, you know, a song very much influenced, you know,
4:43
Speaker 1: by the times. It's just like it's so yeah, everything
4:47
Speaker 1: was just so unsure and still is. There's no end
4:50
Speaker 1: date to what's going on right now, and it's just
4:53
Speaker 1: like almost like, Okay, I could write like a terror
4:57
Speaker 1: filled song or just something I just kind of like,
4:59
Speaker 1: all right, call Spada spade. The situation is totally messed up,
5:02
Speaker 1: and I don't know what's going on, and I can't
5:04
Speaker 1: pretend to understand. But just like I don't know the
5:07
Speaker 1: resilience of the human spirit and relating on that meant
5:11
Speaker 1: a lot to me. And so for some reason, yeah,
5:13
Speaker 1: the song came out. Stop pretending. So your sound classically
5:18
Speaker 1: is sort of really warm and poppy, fuzzy, sort of dreamy.
5:25
Speaker 1: How would you say that your sound has evolved over
5:29
Speaker 1: the course of the three albums. I think that the
5:33
Speaker 1: first album was kind of leaning more into like jangly
5:38
Speaker 1: pop songs like you Go Running kind of you know,
5:42
Speaker 1: at the time, was influenced more by like Phoenix and
5:46
Speaker 1: the Smiths, and but then also total contrast, like a
5:51
Speaker 1: lot of ballads that were darker. I love Nick Cave
5:54
Speaker 1: and and so I was kind of just like finding
5:55
Speaker 1: my footing in in the first record and then the
5:59
Speaker 1: second one, and I think I I really tried to
6:03
Speaker 1: step out more with like leading with guitar, and so
6:07
Speaker 1: there was a lot more jammy moments and guitar solos
6:10
Speaker 1: and heaviness. And then this record I kind of feel
6:13
Speaker 1: like I I came home again to like some of
6:16
Speaker 1: my my like earlier influences a lot more like narrative
6:21
Speaker 1: storytelling and songwriting. It's something that I had kind of
6:25
Speaker 1: dismissed for a while or didn't think I was good
6:27
Speaker 1: enough at. And so I think a lot these songs
6:30
Speaker 1: breathed really well, and they maybe are not as heavy
6:34
Speaker 1: in terms of like the rock world that maybe Secrets
6:37
Speaker 1: lived in. They are a lot more vulnerable, so I
6:40
Speaker 1: don't And then musically there's still like a lot of
6:44
Speaker 1: those stabby guitar and moments that I think I tried
6:47
Speaker 1: to write a lot of like what I perceived as
6:50
Speaker 1: that sounded almost like I'm singing a lyric melody, but
6:54
Speaker 1: through guitar there's a lot of those moments. So it's
6:57
Speaker 1: an extension of my voice instead of just like heaviness
7:00
Speaker 1: and loudness and jamminess and feedback and all that. So, yeah,
7:04
Speaker 1: it's a lot more melodic. Yeah it's super catchy. You know,
7:09
Speaker 1: I've listened to the album a lot over the last week,
7:12
Speaker 1: and it's like by the second or third listen, it's
7:16
Speaker 1: like I feel like I'm right there and I know
7:17
Speaker 1: the melodies and they're totally synking in. That's awesome. How
7:22
Speaker 1: do you not play a melody that you've already heard
7:25
Speaker 1: from another song, or how do you even know if
7:28
Speaker 1: you're yeah, you know, like recreating something unconsciously. That seems
7:34
Speaker 1: like the hardest part of songwriting. I just feel like
7:36
Speaker 1: I would sit down and you know, play like something
7:40
Speaker 1: like something very obvious and well known totally. There have
7:43
Speaker 1: been moments where I literally have I mean I know
7:46
Speaker 1: I have it on voice memos where somewhere of just
7:48
Speaker 1: like being so excited to show Peter he's my partner
7:52
Speaker 1: in the band or the whole band, just like check
7:54
Speaker 1: out this new song, and then someone goes like, yeah,
7:56
Speaker 1: that's like a feist song, like that melody right there
8:00
Speaker 1: or whatever, like and you know, something that I'll be
8:03
Speaker 1: so excited about, and I'll just have I just yeah,
8:06
Speaker 1: be wrapped up in the moment not even realize that
8:08
Speaker 1: it's like a total rip off. And then other times
8:11
Speaker 1: I write songs by ripping off melodies, so then I
8:15
Speaker 1: can get into the mindset of that artist or like
8:20
Speaker 1: literally just like pretending and trying to get out of,
8:25
Speaker 1: you know, my headspace and then from there having the
8:29
Speaker 1: freedom to make it my own. Yeah. Kevin Parker from
8:33
Speaker 1: Tam and Paulo was talking about the same thing, and
8:35
Speaker 1: he was saying, when he writes, he often tries to
8:38
Speaker 1: make a continuation of a song, right, like He'll listen.
8:42
Speaker 1: He was like talking about a beach House song that
8:44
Speaker 1: he was obsessed with, and then he tried to write
8:47
Speaker 1: like the next volume of that song. Yeah, that's a
8:50
Speaker 1: great idea. Anything that helps. Like, we just get in
8:54
Speaker 1: our heads all the time, and there's so many reasons,
8:56
Speaker 1: you know, why not to push forward on a song,
8:58
Speaker 1: and so all of the little tools are so necessary
9:02
Speaker 1: and helpful. So you produced this album, right, co produced? Yeah,
9:07
Speaker 1: my first one. I think I've been producing my whole
9:10
Speaker 1: life without knowing it and without giving it the official title,
9:14
Speaker 1: but like or attempting to produce things. But this was
9:18
Speaker 1: the first official one. Yeah. Did you come to it
9:21
Speaker 1: with an overall vision for the project? I first came
9:25
Speaker 1: to it actually in a very scared place. I at
9:30
Speaker 1: the time when we were going to record this this
9:36
Speaker 1: record that that's coming out now. We had already attempted
9:40
Speaker 1: twice to make a record coming right off the heels
9:44
Speaker 1: of Like Secrets, and it didn't go well. And I
9:47
Speaker 1: was in a pretty low, dark place and questioning a lot.
9:52
Speaker 1: And I had finally, like I had a couple of
9:55
Speaker 1: songs that I saw some sparks in, but I was
9:57
Speaker 1: still in a pretty pretty low place. And Peter came
10:01
Speaker 1: downstairs remember one day, and he was like, I think
10:03
Speaker 1: you're going to produce this record. You need to produce
10:05
Speaker 1: this record, And I just instantly started crying. I don't
10:09
Speaker 1: know why, but I just was in such a fucked
10:13
Speaker 1: up place and just like didn't even have the self
10:16
Speaker 1: confidence to think that, like, yeah, that's a good idea.
10:19
Speaker 1: So was that more pressure? Did that feel like oh no, no,
10:22
Speaker 1: I have two jobs to do? Yeah? I know it
10:24
Speaker 1: felt like, oh no, if I step into that role,
10:27
Speaker 1: like this record will never get made or I'll overthink it.
10:32
Speaker 1: Then if it doesn't do well, it will really be
10:35
Speaker 1: all on me because I produced it. And so there's
10:38
Speaker 1: so much fear wrapped up in that and for a
10:42
Speaker 1: number of reasons, but like basically in the end, I
10:46
Speaker 1: was just like, you know what I need to do this,
10:48
Speaker 1: and I think I'm prepared to do it, and I'm
10:51
Speaker 1: ready to jump up over that cliff. And I basically
10:55
Speaker 1: sought out like a co producer for the things that
10:58
Speaker 1: I knew that I was not, like I needed a
11:01
Speaker 1: right hand man of just like I'm not good at
11:04
Speaker 1: time management. I will press record a thousand times and
11:08
Speaker 1: then not even use it. And Andy, So, Andy Park
11:11
Speaker 1: was my co producer for this, and there's so many
11:13
Speaker 1: wonderful things he brought to the table and really challenged
11:17
Speaker 1: me to like sharpen the tip on all of the
11:19
Speaker 1: songs and the lyrics. And yeah, it was such a fun,
11:24
Speaker 1: joyful experience. That's amazing. Also, it sounds like exactly what
11:29
Speaker 1: you needed to do. I think so too. Yeah, I
11:32
Speaker 1: think a lot of things had been preparing me for
11:34
Speaker 1: this record. I lived in records when I was a kid,
11:38
Speaker 1: just I didn't realize that it was like kind of
11:40
Speaker 1: a producer mindset. But I would pick apart different frequencies
11:43
Speaker 1: and Okay, these are the highs and these are the
11:45
Speaker 1: lows of the song, and I would try to imagine
11:47
Speaker 1: how they would get those sounds. And so, yeah, it
11:50
Speaker 1: feels like I was preparing myself my whole life, but
11:54
Speaker 1: just didn't know it. Well, yeah, maybe you didn't have
11:56
Speaker 1: the language for it yet exactly the intention and you
12:00
Speaker 1: had the interest really Yeah, totally. On Lights Out the song,
12:05
Speaker 1: I was just curious from a producers standpoint, there's a
12:08
Speaker 1: little what sounds like a little vocal sample at the
12:11
Speaker 1: beginning of the song, and then the whole you know,
12:13
Speaker 1: the beat drops and it sort of disappears from that moment.
12:16
Speaker 1: What was the thinking behind that? The one that says
12:19
Speaker 1: hot Mike? Oh, is that what it says? Yeah, And
12:23
Speaker 1: I don't know why I said hot Mike, but there's
12:27
Speaker 1: we're always trying to like keep spirits light in the studio.
12:30
Speaker 1: But that's actually interesting that you asked me this question,
12:33
Speaker 1: because I wanted moments on this record that brought you
12:38
Speaker 1: into a different world and then also back, and then
12:40
Speaker 1: I wanted you to be able to feel like you're
12:42
Speaker 1: in the studio with us too. Yeah, it's cool. It's
12:45
Speaker 1: almost like you're there right before the song starts totally
12:48
Speaker 1: and hearing you know, two or three seconds before the
12:51
Speaker 1: band starts playing, you feel the power of the band
12:54
Speaker 1: in a new way. Yeah. Absolutely, I think there's a
12:57
Speaker 1: lot of moments like that on like Broken Social Scene records.
13:02
Speaker 1: You hear that and a lot of hip hop records
13:04
Speaker 1: actually too. I mean I'm sure you know, yes, yeah,
13:07
Speaker 1: that's what it reminded me of. Yeah, I specially love
13:11
Speaker 1: kind of especially those reprises like that Kendrick Lamar does
13:14
Speaker 1: and they're thematic and like it feels like he's talking
13:19
Speaker 1: directly to you, and so yeah, I'm a big fan
13:23
Speaker 1: of that. Very cool. That song is just undeniable. I mean,
13:27
Speaker 1: that's one of the real one of the songs that
13:29
Speaker 1: really like hooked its claws and to me quick it
13:32
Speaker 1: always kind of amazes me how short it is because
13:35
Speaker 1: it seems like there's a lot packed into it. But
13:37
Speaker 1: the songs on this record in general are shorter, and
13:41
Speaker 1: I didn't try to do that, but somehow it came
13:44
Speaker 1: out that way. But these little ones a little fireball
13:50
Speaker 1: that's lights out from Deep Sea Diver's new album, Impossible Way.
13:54
Speaker 1: We'll hear more from Leah Rose and Jessica Dobson after
13:57
Speaker 1: a break. Here's more of Leo Rose's conversation with Jessica Dobson. So,
14:06
Speaker 1: I'm curious about your thoughts about the music industry because
14:08
Speaker 1: you've been in the music industry for a really long time. Yeah,
14:13
Speaker 1: you were signed at nineteen with Atlantic. What type of
14:17
Speaker 1: music were you making back then, and how did that
14:19
Speaker 1: happen At that time? That was kind of like like
14:24
Speaker 1: right before the Atlantic Records deal happened, I was playing
14:27
Speaker 1: coffee shops around like I grew up in Lahabra Fullerton
14:31
Speaker 1: area and was just kind of like just starting to
14:34
Speaker 1: come onto the scene and meet new people. And one
14:37
Speaker 1: of the first people I met was this guy Eli Thompson,
14:42
Speaker 1: and he played with Richard Swift, who has since passed
14:47
Speaker 1: and rest in peace, Richard. We played together in the Shins.
14:51
Speaker 1: That's when I started buying a ton of records and
14:52
Speaker 1: going omiba like every Sunday, and they were expanding my
14:57
Speaker 1: little eighteen nineteen year old brain and they kind of
15:01
Speaker 1: took me under their wing and we recorded my first demos.
15:04
Speaker 1: So out of those demos, there was a song called
15:07
Speaker 1: most Sundays that I kind of had this very like
15:10
Speaker 1: I guess you could say rich just Swift an Elliott
15:12
Speaker 1: Smith kind of swung beat, and that was the song
15:16
Speaker 1: that kind of, I guess, put me on the map
15:18
Speaker 1: in front of these major labeled types. My manager at
15:22
Speaker 1: the time, I media showcases. I didn't know what I
15:24
Speaker 1: was doing. I just showed up and played the songs
15:27
Speaker 1: in my band, and then it seemed pretty crazy. All
15:30
Speaker 1: of a sudden, there was a deal on the table
15:33
Speaker 1: and I was super young, and I was like, oh,
15:35
Speaker 1: if I don't take this, then I guess nothing will
15:38
Speaker 1: like this will come again, so I should probably take
15:40
Speaker 1: this deal. So once I signed the deal and kind
15:44
Speaker 1: of felt like I was in this weird, faceless system,
15:47
Speaker 1: like I think that's where I started getting anxiety, but
15:50
Speaker 1: didn't know what that was either at the time. I
15:52
Speaker 1: ended up like losing my voice for I think my
15:54
Speaker 1: actual speaking voice and singing voice for five months. It
15:57
Speaker 1: was the craziest experience that seems very and bolic, honestly,
16:01
Speaker 1: like I wasn't lost on me. I know, it's super crazy.
16:06
Speaker 1: I think you know, since that time, like as I've
16:10
Speaker 1: reflected a lot more on it, I think I've been
16:13
Speaker 1: searching for that for I'm always searching for like musical
16:17
Speaker 1: community and more connection. Because that took me out of
16:20
Speaker 1: it right away and control totally. Yeah. I heard Katy
16:25
Speaker 1: Perry talking about this, and she because she was trying
16:28
Speaker 1: to like make it and break through for so long,
16:32
Speaker 1: and she was at it, and she was in that
16:34
Speaker 1: Christian realm too, like Christian music realm, I think beginning
16:38
Speaker 1: started out, yeah, which is a totally different scene, but yeah,
16:42
Speaker 1: and I think she was at it for like ten years.
16:44
Speaker 1: And then she made the most Unchristian song ever, right right,
16:48
Speaker 1: it's a girl, and she like totally blew up. Yeah,
16:52
Speaker 1: but I think even she was like totally surprised. But
16:55
Speaker 1: I think that's the key, though. You never know when
16:57
Speaker 1: something's gonna quote unquote work, whatever that means. And I
17:02
Speaker 1: think I think that's a good example because she put
17:05
Speaker 1: in the work like it didn't come out of nothing,
17:08
Speaker 1: and whatever she thought was a failure like set her
17:11
Speaker 1: up for that moment. And then you know, you could
17:14
Speaker 1: flash forward today and you know, like it's like nobody
17:19
Speaker 1: can recreate their successes, and you go through these valleys
17:22
Speaker 1: and peaks of what success looks like to you as
17:24
Speaker 1: an artist, and I don't know, it's just kind of
17:27
Speaker 1: so much as right place, right time, and this weird
17:30
Speaker 1: alchemy of a ton of things. Yeah, and then what
17:35
Speaker 1: ended up happening to the deal, I was just so sad. Music,
17:39
Speaker 1: the joy of it was absolutely squeezed out of it
17:43
Speaker 1: for me, and just having experienced like different kinds of
17:46
Speaker 1: rejection amidst what looked like a big quote unquote success,
17:49
Speaker 1: it was a failure for me, and like I was embarrassed.
17:54
Speaker 1: I didn't know what to do, and I ended up
17:56
Speaker 1: just kind of putting my head in the sand and
17:59
Speaker 1: stopped playing z for like a year and ran a
18:02
Speaker 1: coffee shop, like I was like a partial investor and
18:05
Speaker 1: just like totally doing Like Peter, who's now I'm married
18:10
Speaker 1: to him and he's in the band, he plays drums.
18:12
Speaker 1: He at the time, we were just best friends and
18:14
Speaker 1: he came down and he was like, what the fuck
18:16
Speaker 1: are you doing? Why are you running a coffee shop?
18:18
Speaker 1: You should be playing music, And like totally helped me
18:22
Speaker 1: out of and back into just playing again and find
18:26
Speaker 1: being able to find joy in it. So that was
18:29
Speaker 1: pretty sweet. You're like, I'm marrying you. Thank you, Yeah,
18:32
Speaker 1: thank you? Yeah, good choice. Yeah totally. And what's it
18:38
Speaker 1: like collaborating with your husband? How does that change the
18:41
Speaker 1: dynamic of your relationship? Are you always talking about music
18:45
Speaker 1: at home or are you able to sort of like
18:48
Speaker 1: compartmentalize those conversations it's tricky to compartmentalize the conversations. We
18:55
Speaker 1: definitely both have the brains that don't know how to
18:57
Speaker 1: shut things we're passionate about off. But I am so
19:03
Speaker 1: grateful for Peter. I mean just personally as my partner,
19:06
Speaker 1: but then in a musical setting we couldn't be any different. Um.
19:12
Speaker 1: He is, like I love how just kind of eighty
19:16
Speaker 1: with his ideas and he doesn't give a shit about
19:19
Speaker 1: looking foolish. He'll throw like a thousand ideas out into
19:23
Speaker 1: the room and you know, he himself will say like, yeah,
19:27
Speaker 1: like nine nine of these are probably not good or
19:30
Speaker 1: not good, and but the one that makes it's like
19:32
Speaker 1: he's like this burst of energy and these little sports
19:34
Speaker 1: and he's the sparker in the band. Totally. Yeah. I
19:38
Speaker 1: was gonna say, sometimes you need that to get just
19:40
Speaker 1: the ideas flowing and the energy going. Someone just needs
19:43
Speaker 1: to say something and then it'll turn into something totally
19:46
Speaker 1: And I think that like he got that a lot
19:49
Speaker 1: from like, uh like improv kind of yeah, improv. Yes,
19:53
Speaker 1: So he's a yes n a person. There's no like, hey,
19:57
Speaker 1: I don't want to do this thing that you just
19:58
Speaker 1: started us on the path. It's just like, Okay, I'm
20:01
Speaker 1: taking what you just said and then I have to
20:02
Speaker 1: end it. Yes, And and so he's constantly getting on
20:05
Speaker 1: me when I like am not being open to like,
20:09
Speaker 1: let's say, he'll presents something like an idea, musical or
20:12
Speaker 1: creative whatever, and if I like kind of rejected or
20:17
Speaker 1: don't want to get into it, he gets upset. And
20:19
Speaker 1: I totally get that. And that's where I need to
20:23
Speaker 1: be pushed in is just being freer and not as
20:25
Speaker 1: precious about things. So he's just wonderful like in that
20:30
Speaker 1: arena and obviously fantastic drummer and just yeah, he's crazy.
20:35
Speaker 1: He's just like so much energy, yeah, and live like
20:38
Speaker 1: he's it's like so and it's really fun to see
20:41
Speaker 1: like him in and Garrett who plays in the band.
20:45
Speaker 1: He plays bass in the band. Like the way they
20:47
Speaker 1: play off of each other, you know, Peter tends to
20:50
Speaker 1: kind of be like slightly on top of the beat
20:52
Speaker 1: and Gary tends to be just slightly behind, and it's
20:54
Speaker 1: like it's perfect. I love it. And you guys really
20:58
Speaker 1: jam out when you play live. Is that orchestrated ahead
21:02
Speaker 1: of time or does that happen naturally? Is it like
21:04
Speaker 1: a really an authentic jam or is that sort of
21:08
Speaker 1: more pre planned typically. I don't know. It's just one
21:12
Speaker 1: of those magic moments when we go into longer jams
21:15
Speaker 1: and really stretch it out. There's a song on the
21:17
Speaker 1: record called Eisa Red that has like a three minute
21:20
Speaker 1: guitar solo on it, and it gets into this kind
21:23
Speaker 1: of LCD sound system hypnotic groove for like three minutes,
21:30
Speaker 1: and sometimes live we'll tease that out for like ten minutes,
21:34
Speaker 1: and it just depends on what the mood is and
21:38
Speaker 1: it's fun to, I don't know, feel the freedom in
21:42
Speaker 1: terms of like guitar playing, of when you start finding
21:45
Speaker 1: that you're playing things. What you're hearing in your head
21:49
Speaker 1: at that moment in the middle of a live show
21:51
Speaker 1: but you've not necessarily played is coming out on guitar
21:54
Speaker 1: and that's just years of playing. But like, yeah, it's
21:59
Speaker 1: kind of thrilling, and so it's one of my most
22:01
Speaker 1: favorite moments when as a band you can get to
22:04
Speaker 1: those places. We'll be back soon after a break. Before
22:13
Speaker 1: we get into the rest of Leah's conversation with Jessica Dobson.
22:16
Speaker 1: Here's some of the title track off Deep Sea Diver's
22:19
Speaker 1: new album, which features Sharon Vannett. When this song was
22:25
Speaker 1: first written, it was the last song the album was done,
22:29
Speaker 1: and then I asked, like my managers one day, I
22:31
Speaker 1: was like, do you think this record needs another song?
22:34
Speaker 1: And they're like, it wouldn't I mean, it wouldn't hurt
22:36
Speaker 1: to try. Do you want to try to co write?
22:38
Speaker 1: And I was like yeah, And so I went down
22:41
Speaker 1: to California with this woman named Jendas Silvio and Peter
22:45
Speaker 1: came with me too, and I try to show up
22:48
Speaker 1: to this session without any preconceived melodic, lyrical anything, just
22:55
Speaker 1: try to keep my head super clear. But then my
22:58
Speaker 1: personality really came out, like of just like the poh shit,
23:01
Speaker 1: I don't have a plant B and so the without
23:04
Speaker 1: me trying, this lyric just came out in my head.
23:08
Speaker 1: I was like in the shower before we got there,
23:09
Speaker 1: and I was like, but that was then and this
23:11
Speaker 1: is now. And I just kept hearing that lyric over
23:13
Speaker 1: and over. And then when I got to the Jen's studio,
23:17
Speaker 1: we hopped into it pretty pretty much right away, and
23:20
Speaker 1: she was playing this thing on piano, and I think,
23:22
Speaker 1: out of nervousness, I started playing my guitar and that's
23:26
Speaker 1: where the dun in it, d do do da And
23:31
Speaker 1: she looked at me and she pointed, and she was like,
23:33
Speaker 1: get there, just because she was writing something totally different.
23:37
Speaker 1: And then I mean, that's the gifting of a songwriter.
23:40
Speaker 1: I guess when you're in that world is just you
23:42
Speaker 1: know where to point the energy. And she just totally
23:45
Speaker 1: hound in and she's like, what is that? And I
23:48
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know, I've never played this before ever.
23:51
Speaker 1: Also the gift of collaboration, because if you were alone,
23:53
Speaker 1: you might not have that could have been totally a
23:55
Speaker 1: throwaway one hundred percent. I just was. So it was
24:00
Speaker 1: one of those just magic moments of like being in
24:03
Speaker 1: the room seeing this song come out in like two hours,
24:07
Speaker 1: not a thing was changed after the fact. And then
24:10
Speaker 1: how did Sharon Vanetton get on it? Oh? I love Shan. Yeah,
24:15
Speaker 1: she's one of my favorites. She really is. And so Okay,
24:20
Speaker 1: So her brothers were fans of Deep Sea Diver for
24:23
Speaker 1: like the last three or four years, I think, And
24:25
Speaker 1: I remember, like a long time ago, being tagged by
24:28
Speaker 1: one of her brothers and seeing this thing on Facebook
24:31
Speaker 1: as I'm like, hey, Sharon, this is the band I
24:32
Speaker 1: was telling you about, and I was like, is that
24:34
Speaker 1: Sharon van Etton, Like holy shit, Okay, And then then,
24:38
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't think about that for a while,
24:41
Speaker 1: and then she had this record coming out which was
24:45
Speaker 1: to remind me tomorrow, and I heard the first I
24:49
Speaker 1: think it was the first single, Jupiter four, and I
24:51
Speaker 1: was just like, holy shit, I love this song. And
24:55
Speaker 1: I don't know what compelled me. I just wrote her
24:57
Speaker 1: on Instagram and I just told her how much I
25:01
Speaker 1: respected I so kind of like in the same vein
25:04
Speaker 1: of like Feist, Patti Smith, Cat Power, Nico Case. There's
25:09
Speaker 1: so many like women that I love in respect that
25:11
Speaker 1: create their own timelines for how they want to do things,
25:15
Speaker 1: and there is a total similar thread between all of them,
25:18
Speaker 1: and they're they're people of like great substance. She's one
25:21
Speaker 1: of those women. Yeah, And I said thank you, like,
25:24
Speaker 1: you know, because she stepped away for a second to
25:26
Speaker 1: go to school, she had a kid. It's like all
25:29
Speaker 1: these things that are like in terms of industry standards
25:32
Speaker 1: and how you do things and really sur record every
25:33
Speaker 1: two years and come back, okay, write, start writing and
25:36
Speaker 1: do it again. Like that's a huge finger in the
25:39
Speaker 1: face and I want to be that example too, of
25:42
Speaker 1: just like, now you don't have to follow those rules.
25:45
Speaker 1: And so I saw that in her and I just
25:47
Speaker 1: said thank you. So then a couple months later, she
25:49
Speaker 1: was coming through to the Neptune in Seattle, and I
25:54
Speaker 1: went to that show and then I think I like
25:57
Speaker 1: tagged her on Instagram and in a story and I
25:59
Speaker 1: was just like, there's nowhere else I'd rather be besides here.
26:03
Speaker 1: The night before we finished our record and then the
26:06
Speaker 1: next day we went to the studio to record Impossible Wait.
26:09
Speaker 1: And as we were recording it, I was I asked myself.
26:13
Speaker 1: I think it was internally At first I was like, man,
26:15
Speaker 1: it would be so cool if Sharon sang on this.
26:17
Speaker 1: And then I was in the bathroom and Peter, you
26:20
Speaker 1: just yelled, it's like Sharon messaged you. I was like what,
26:25
Speaker 1: and so I I just went out there and she
26:27
Speaker 1: said the most the most kind words, and eventually I asked,
26:33
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, like, I have this song, do
26:36
Speaker 1: you want to hear it? If you wanted to sing
26:38
Speaker 1: on it, let me know, like here, like I'm totally
26:41
Speaker 1: totally up for whatever. Just like and if it doesn't
26:43
Speaker 1: speak to you, forget, I asked. I find it was
26:46
Speaker 1: like midnight like one night months like a few months later,
26:49
Speaker 1: and a little message came through and it was like,
26:52
Speaker 1: I can do this, and I'm super stoked, and I
26:55
Speaker 1: was just so excited that it worked out. All right,
26:58
Speaker 1: let's talk about Switchblade a little bit. Yeah, it's written
27:01
Speaker 1: in third person. Who who are you talking about? I
27:04
Speaker 1: think it's kind of like a mixture of a lot
27:06
Speaker 1: of stories that I heard firsthand at the Commons with
27:10
Speaker 1: the women I was spending time with. So this organization
27:13
Speaker 1: that I started volunteering at, it's called the Aurora Commons,
27:16
Speaker 1: and it's a safe place for our unhoused neighbors, those
27:21
Speaker 1: that are drug dependent, involved in sex based work on
27:24
Speaker 1: the street, and it's a place where you can come.
27:28
Speaker 1: You don't have to be free of drugs, and there's
27:32
Speaker 1: your treaty with dignity and respect. And I was so
27:34
Speaker 1: drawn to this place because I hadn't found anything like it.
27:37
Speaker 1: And I live off of Aurora, which is like a
27:41
Speaker 1: highway kind of that runs parallel to the five Freeway
27:45
Speaker 1: in Seattle, and a lot of the women, you know,
27:48
Speaker 1: work on the streets by where I live, and you
27:51
Speaker 1: walk I walk by them every day, and you know,
27:55
Speaker 1: we're constantly passing people every day and we have no
27:58
Speaker 1: idea what their stories are, and we make a sumptions
28:00
Speaker 1: and put labels on people, and it's just it's such
28:05
Speaker 1: a disservice to to ourselves and others. But we do
28:09
Speaker 1: have that kind of commentary like that it's harder than
28:12
Speaker 1: you think line, like it's hard to receive. It's hard
28:15
Speaker 1: to receive other people's help. I need other people's help.
28:18
Speaker 1: Like we're all in the same boat. We all carry,
28:20
Speaker 1: like I said, like these little traumas around with us
28:22
Speaker 1: or large traumas, and that can feel so suffocating. And
28:27
Speaker 1: I wanted to write a song just like I hear
28:29
Speaker 1: you and you are important and you belong here. At
28:32
Speaker 1: the beginning of the record, it seems like you are
28:34
Speaker 1: in a really low place. Yes, and then you must
28:38
Speaker 1: be able to build up your confidence. If this is
28:40
Speaker 1: the first time you're producing an album, you have to
28:43
Speaker 1: write all these songs, I imaginetally you write a lot
28:46
Speaker 1: of the instrumental parts as well. Yeah, so that's a
28:49
Speaker 1: huge accomplishment, thank you. And so I'm just wondering, like
28:53
Speaker 1: coming out the other side of that, has that actually
28:56
Speaker 1: helped how you're feeling? Yeah? It did, And like it's
29:02
Speaker 1: just that, you know, the paradox of like you think
29:06
Speaker 1: if you dismantle things and kind of like strip everything away,
29:10
Speaker 1: that it's going to be this naked, crazy place where
29:14
Speaker 1: you might not push through and then you're left looking
29:16
Speaker 1: kind of foolish. But I think that by kind of dismantling,
29:20
Speaker 1: meaning like getting lower, getting into the dirt, like allowing
29:26
Speaker 1: myself to be more compassionate to myself and others and vulnerable,
29:30
Speaker 1: like in that process, like it felt really joyous instead
29:34
Speaker 1: of scary as it was happening. And I think right
29:38
Speaker 1: now I'm just like reveling in the joy of what
29:41
Speaker 1: we created and just being thankful for that. Well, thank
29:45
Speaker 1: you for being so gracious with your time, and thank
29:47
Speaker 1: you for sitting down and talking so much fun. Oh
29:51
Speaker 1: my gosh, the feeling is mutual, and I really appreciate
29:53
Speaker 1: you asking me to be on the show. Thanks to
29:58
Speaker 1: Jessica Dobson for opening up about her creative process with Leah.
30:02
Speaker 1: You can hear Deepsea divers new album Impossible Wait, along
30:05
Speaker 1: with some of our other favorite Deep Sea Diver tracks,
30:07
Speaker 1: on a playlist at Broken record podcast dot com, and
30:11
Speaker 1: be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube
30:13
Speaker 1: dot com slash Broken Record podcast. There you can find
30:16
Speaker 1: extended cuts of new and old episodes. Broken Record is
30:20
Speaker 1: produced with helpful Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler,
30:25
Speaker 1: and its executive produced by Mio Lovell. Broken Record is
30:28
Speaker 1: a production of Pushkin Industries and if you like Broken Record,
30:31
Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review our show on
30:34
Speaker 1: your podcast. Act A theme music is by Kenny Beats.
30:37
Speaker 1: I'm Justin Richard bass