Latest / Chirping Zebras / MIKE LALOR | Chirping Zebras Podcast | Ep #127

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MIKE LALOR | Chirping Zebras Podcast | Ep #127 · Chirping Zebras

• Mark: Hello everyone and welcome to Chirping Zebras Mark Riley virtually alongside Gino Binda. And we want to right off the hop thank our sponsor, the referees, Creesh, One Stop Shop, for all your referee needs from scheduling and training, payment. They do it all. Also want to give a shout out to AOA Studios. And we also want to remind you to like and subscribe on the YouTube and follow us on all the social medias, the Instagram, the Facebook, and of course. Geno: The TikTok. Mark: Thank you, Gino. And also check us out at chirpingzeebers dot com. And this weekend in in youth hockey seemed to be a little more quiet. Geno: No. Mark: I was away, so I don't know. Geno: No, it's it all sucks. Mark: No. All right. Well, we had Johnny Supan on last week from Heads Up Hockey and had a long talk about all the craziness in youth hockey. So doesn't Geno: Yeah, he was great. Mark: doesn't seem to be going away. unfortunately. Geno: No, he has a good good program over there. Mark: Yep. And and so I'm Geno: And we'll g get reffin'. Mark: I kinda yeah, yeah, he did say he wanted to come back to ref. So that's good. Yeah. Geno: Yeah. Got one. Mark: this past weekend, speaking about refing, I was able to go down to Tampa for the face off of Heroes, and Warrior for Life Fund, our f our our good friends over there, Captain Ryan Crowley and Frank Simonetti. Much like Bozeman brought me down, I did a comedy show after the welcome dinner and then reffed all the games. Geno: Did you bring T shirts down with you this time? Mark: he I didn't. I should have. but w it it was cool because it it was John Eccles with Special Ops hockey, special Geno: Mm, I get the hat. Mark: operations hockey and special forces trust was kinda yeah, there. you got the hat on. Perfect. he's supposed speaking of t shirts, he's supposed to send us some. Geno: Mm. Mark: And then Special Forces Trust was kind of like the host of it. And they had a great team. And then the Lightning Warriors, right out of Tampa, was the fourth team. And it was a great tournament, great hockey. the NHLers, you know, our guest today, Mike Lawler, he was down there along with Andrew Alberts, our buddy Albi, I Ally Afradi, quite a few former Geno: Big Al. Mark: guests here on the Zebras, which was kind of cool, and a bunch of A bunch of future guests. Al C Cord was there. Brad Lukovich was there. it was it was a really, really cool event. I got to meet Geno: Did you get hit with any pucks? Mark: one, one from Special Ops, the defenseman. He's lucky he's he was Green Beret, or I would Geno: Mm. Mark: have fought him. He hit me right in the ass with a clear out. just as and he had his head down, he knew it. He felt bad. Geno: Hel Hell Gills took a slap shot off my father's ass. One Mark: Did he? Geno: of those like brewing you know, we used to do the training camps and shit and yeah, he did the Mark: yeah, yeah. Geno: we did the black and gold game, took one right off the Mark: yeah. Yep. Geno: Think he got run over too on the lines, yeah. Mark: he he probably did. but it was really it was really cool. Geno: I was shit my pants, but no. Mark: You know, you know you know who's fun was Zenon Kanopka. just Geno: Trapping you. Mark: yeah, he was chirping me and but really just a fun, you know, a fun guy. Danny Paye was there, he was coaching because he he broke his foot. n and and not with a good story. Geno: Mm. You used to coach a Kenesius. Yeah. Used to be a Kenesius with my yeah, with Trevor. Mark: Yep. really good guy. And it w it was just a great event. Got to see a lot of a a lot of guys that, you know, throughout the you know, Warrior for Life Fund I've gotten to meet and those guys are Geno: That's cool. Mark: just, you know, rock solid. And Tampa I I have Geno: Tampa's great. Mark: you Tampa, I've never I had never been to Tampa. Geno: I've been in Tampa for two Frozen Fools. One I worked, one I was a spectator. Yeah, it was the year after I got off the ice. my buddy Joe Sullivan and Ryan Hershey and I think Johnny Grant did that one. Yeah. It was awesome to see those those boys, my NCHC crews worked at Frozen Fool down in Tampa. And I just got to sit by the pool and drink all weekend 'cause I had At the time I wasn't any responsibility for Orlando Cocky yet. My father still had the position. I was just kinda floating. So it was good. Yeah. It is fun. Mark: The way to be. All right. Tampa's a cool city. and yeah, it really is. Jamie Hushcroft was down there too. he was he was really cool. all the guys were great. And it was a really great experience. If you never if you haven't checked out Face Off of Heroes, we did T Off of Heroes, the big golf tournament at Granite Lynx. if you haven't checked out the Warrior for Life fund, you should. It's it's an incredible program that works with the retired and active Navy SEALs and Gold Star families down in Virginia Beach. And and, you know, Special Ops hockey, Special Forces Trust, Lightning Warriors. there was some players from the Panthers Warriors there. So a Geno: Mm. Mark: lot of good lot of good stuff, a lot of fun, a lot of laughs. So I think we might be going back to Bozeman next year, but you know, I could always use a second ref. I was out there alone all day, so just saying maybe maybe both zebras will have to go next time. I'll see. Yeah, Geno: Yeah, if I can c if I can cut it in the schedule. Mark: I know. I know you're a pretty z pretty busy man. But today was great. We had Mike Lawler on, longtime NHL, Stanley Cup winner with the Montreal. A Geno: A lot of good stairs a lot of good stories, yeah. Mark: lot of good stories. He played with a lot of different people in his career, had a great career. rookie season wins the Stanley Cup with Montreal a year after winning the Calder Tro Calder Cup with the the Sherbrooke Canadians in the American League. So this is a good one. A lot of great hockey stories and a lot of names that you'll recognize for sure, guys that Mike played with and against. So as I say, without further ado, let's give a listen to Mike Lalor Mike, welcome to the Chirping Zebras. Great to have you on, man. Mike Lalor: Hi Mark, good to see you again. Good, good to see Geno: Ike, how's it going? Thanks for being on. Mike Lalor: you. Mark: We finally got you on here. Mike Lalor: Yeah. Mark: Not for lack of trying to schedule, right? Mike Lalor: So well, good to be here and thank you. Mark: No worries. Now I I I talked about it in the opening, but this past weekend we were part of the face off of Heroes. and and actually we've both been part of two of what w this weekend was incredible. You know, from your perspective, what was your experience with it? Mike Lalor: It it was it was incredible. you know, just over a year ago when we were out in Bozeman for the first one, that was a great experience, but you're never quite sure, you know, whoever you know, the way the weekend unfolded and Bozeman was incredible, but to come back and do it a second time in Tampa, a lot of the, you know, familiar faces and you know the routine and the From the gentleman's game to the draft, to the games themselves. But my take was everything was just a little bit faster and more intense Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: this year than it was in Bozeman, but all in the best way. Like these guys wanted to win, they were all they all had hockey experience, they could skate and they're all twenty to thirty years younger than I am, so Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: it was fun. Geno: Price of polka went Mark: It was de Geno: up. Mike Lalor: Yeah. Mark: Yeah, it it definitely was faster and like one of the the first time special ops hockey played Special Forces Trust, that game got spicy right away. Mike Lalor: Yeah. It's we were watching that one because we played the first game against the Tampa group and you know, they had a few guys that weren't the strongest skaters, so was you know, we won that one and and then we watched the game after us. We're like, my god Knowing we had to play the winner of that game. Mark: Yeah. Mike Lalor: we had w We had to bring our A game and I think we whoever whichever team we won, it it came right down to the end. We we won with pulling the goalie and goal mouth jam and I must admit you were in perfect position to call that goal across in the line. So you haven't lost your Mark: Thank you. I was. Geno: I think it was gonna be a Mike Lalor: touch. Mark: Gino, you would have been proud of me. I was right on that net. Geno: would have been a goal either way. Mark: Right on that net. And and the other team still bitched at me. Geno: That's awesome. I mean those charity Mike Lalor: yeah. Mark: Insane it wasn't. Geno: games you do, like it doesn't matter, like street hockey, anything, the you're gonna get chirped as a referee. Those are the worst things to referee. Mike Lalor: Yeah. Mark: Yeah, well, I was saying how you get hockey guys, especially guys that played at a high level, and you have military guys, you know, once that switch, that competitive switch goes on, it's not shutting off. You know, and it got, you know, it got intense in those games. And that championship game when you guys played special ops, you know, that was that got yelled at a few times. Mike Lalor: Well, we had lost to Special Ops the game before, and then we had to turn around and play him again for the championship. And Xena Xenon Kanopka Geno: Hmm. Mike Lalor: man. He have you have you talked to him since? Mark: yeah, no, after Gino, he was pissed. I called the penalty on Al Seacourt for a trip. And of course, Geno: Was it a trip? Mark: yeah, no, it was definitely a trip. And Mike Lalor: Yeah, sir once. Mark: yeah, it was right in front of your bench. And so they score on the on the on the penalty shot. So, you know, now he's just he well that's when he slapshot of the puck na me against the boards. And I said, I'll give you a 10. I don't care if it's a charity game. And but then I called him offside with nine seconds left. He was like three feet offside and he snapped and he was yelling at me in the handshake line. It was hilarious. So after the game, I was like, He's gonna kick my ass, you know. But he came up to me Mike Lalor: Mm-hmm. Mark: and he's like, Listen, I don't think it was a trip. L C cord wants to talk to you about it. He's like, and the offside was bullshit. You let a bunch go. He goes, but I still love you, man. 'Cause I said, You're not does this mean you're not coming on the podcast? He goes, No, no, I still love you, but you sucked in that game. So Mike Lalor: That was that's the first time I met him. And man, he he brought it this weekend. He was so much fun. He was the life of the party and in the games, his intensity and his skill. And man, he I don't know how late he stayed out each night, but man, he worked hard the next day. He was Mark: he was out late 'cause Mike Lalor: Yeah. Mark: I was with him both nights. And let's just say it's Geno: Don't break routine. Mark: yeah, it's a good thing I don't drink anymore, or else you might not Mike Lalor: Yeah. Mark: have seen me on Saturday. So Mike Lalor: yeah. Mark: they were out late. But what was cool for me too is the different pros that were there. It wasn't the same, you know, some of the guys like you and and Albi, Ally of Freddy, but you know, there was there was new guys like Al Seacord and Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: Yeah. Mark: Brad Lukovich, you know, Zee. So that was that was kind of the cool part. as far as, you know, the event itself, it was it it kind of brought a fresh, fresh look to it. Mike Lalor: Yeah, for me, like when I get invited and get to do these things, which I love, yeah, you don't know who you're whose paths you're gonna cross, who you're gonna run into. And guys that were maybe your teammates or that you played in the same era and competed against or even the guys like Daniel Pae, you know, like I Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: I watched him, you know, through his career here at the Bruins and the Cup and you know, the To meet him and get to know him is exciting for me. And but Al Secord. Al's a little bit older than I am. I watched him play junior in Ontario when I was a kid, and he was just tough as nails. the Hamilton Fin Cups, I believe they won the c Memorial Cup when he was there, which Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: is a big deal. And and that he He was so tough, so skilled, you know, was a big bad brewing. And I don't know, five, six years later, whatever, you know, he'd been in the league at and I I'm playing in the NHL and I'm playing against him. He's one of the guys, and I think every player has a handful of guys that when you're on the ice, you're kind of pinching yourself. You're like, I'm like, holy Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: shit, I'm on the ice with Al Secord. Like, how cool is this? So Even all these years later to be on the ice with him again, I'm like, I'm on the ice with L Secor. This is so cool. Now, as long as he doesn't beat me up. Geno: Keep those gloves glued on. Mark: It it it it's cool and refreshing to hear like someone like yourself, an X NHL or a Stanley Cup champion, to feel that way the same as you know, we feel, you know, I felt I feel that same way when, you know, Ally Afrady gives me a hug and I'm like, This is Ally Afrady. You know, like I grew up watching him. You know, Gino, you Mike Lalor: Yeah. Mark: had that when Al came on the podcast. Geno: yeah. Right. And then you see him at the golf course and like you're just having a having a beer with Alli Afredi and you're like, this is pretty cool. Mike Lalor: Yeah. Al and I were teammates w when I was with the Washington Capitals for two years and we roomed together. One I do remember. Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: and so you know, we became friends and you know, Al was bigger than life and Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: the hardest slap shot and you got me, you know, a defensive Mark: Mm-hmm. Mike Lalor: defenseman. And You know, he's he's just great. And what I love about Al is that he walks into a room and he's an intimidating guy, Geno: Yes. Mike Lalor: you know, just his his look, you know. It's like, my god, this that's Al I afraid he like he's a he's an animal, you know. But you've never met a softer, more sensitive, kind Geno: Gentle giant. Mike Lalor: individual. And I just laughing 'cause hey yeah, that's hell but you gotta get to know this guy's awesome. yeah. Mark: And super, super smart. Like you know, Geno: Yeah, he's Yes. Mark: and it just so cerebral. And y if you looked at him, you'd be like, This guy is a biker, like, you know, Mike Lalor: Yeah. Mark: what is he gonna offer? And then he goes off on thermodynamics and the laws of relativity and and you're like, Mike Lalor: Yeah. Mark: All right. Mike Lalor: Yeah. So yeah. So it's great Geno: Yeah, w wicked competitive. Mike Lalor: seeing all those guys. Mark: Well, you Gino didn't hear the story, but the story with Brad Lukovich is hilarious. Mike Lalor: So I Brad was coming into the league when I was leaving. And so I played the my last season was a ninety six, ninety seven season with the Dallas Stars. We come out of training camp. I think it was in Vale, and we're gonna play the first exhibition game against the Calgary Flames. I think it was in the it wasn't in Canada. We were playing somewhere, some small town up in northern US. And And Al's telling or I'm sorry, Brad's telling the story on the Friday night. And he goes, Yeah. And Mike was my first roommate. I had no recollection of that. I was like stunned. I didn't know. I couldn't contribute to the story. I couldn't freaking do anything. Geno: Ha ha ha ha. Mike Lalor: I was shocked. And so Saturday night, it was after our event and everything, and we're having a couple beers. And I'm like, Brad, you gotta tell me like. I was your first roommate. Like you caught me off guard last night. I Geno: Mm-hmm. Mike Lalor: I really I'm embarrassed, you know. And he Geno: That's funny. Mike Lalor: he made me feel good. He's like, no, no, don't worry about it. It was the first game and made it sound like it was whatever it was, but I I felt bad and I did a like was I a good roommate? Like was I was like Mark: Ha ha ha. Mike Lalor: good to you? Like if I'm a veteran and you're the rookie coming up, I should have been. more in tune than but I was telling Mark, I was at the end of my career. I had enough things to worry about. Geno: gonna say how many how many different roommates did you have? Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like just a Mike Lalor: Yeah, like just for those exhibition games, it's a one-off, you know? so Geno: Right. right, yeah. That's funny. Mike Lalor: but he that was a good one. Mark: That was hilarious. now we I I brought it up a second ago, but we ask anyone who won the cup, what's that like to lift that over your head? Mike Lalor: It's heavier than you think it is. Geno: Mm. Mark: Yeah. Mike Lalor: 35 pounds, but you know, everyone lifts it up with such energy and stuff that it looks like it's a feather and it's it's not like Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: so you grab it, you better have a good hold on it because you're like, holy sh don't drop it. it's I think like I wish I could go back to To that final game and that time on the ice, because you the one thing I do remember is just how exhausted, like when that final buzzard Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: went, you know, and the puck was chipped out of the zone. And because we were the last minute or so, Calgary had the goalie pulled, they're pressing, they're kept coming close, you know, and we're we're trying to hang on to a one goal lead. And, you know, with I don't know. few seconds left we finally got the puck out of the zone and you you're watching the seconds tick off and the final horn goes. And for myself, I don't know if I was more happy that we won or more relieved that we didn't have to play one more game. Because you're just that's how tired I was that man, I don't know if I got another game in me. These things are killing you. But In saying that, you ev at the end of every playoff game and in the Stanley Cup finals, it was it was exhausting. Like you left everything on the ice, but you play every other day. So you get a good night's sleep and you eat and you rest the next day. You're ready to go when the pucks dropped again. But that final thing, when the buzzard went, it was a relief. And then you're on the ice. celebrating and hugging and finally you get a turn to hold the cup and it's all a blur. Like I don't have Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: actual like like I don't remember what that felt like because there's so much going on. but I will say that in the weeks after you truly felt like and now like I guess not that I've ever been to the top of Mount Everest, but you were you were at the top of the world, you know, and you got feel like that for several weeks until training camp started again. But and and then I think you kind of put it aside. It's a great experience, but now you're on to another training camp, you're getting ready for another season, and can I stay in the lineup, can I stay on the team? Can I contribute? Geno: Mm-hmm. Mike Lalor: Can we repeat winning and all those things? And I went through I I won it my rookie year, the eighty five, eighty six season, and then played in the league for twelve years to the ninety-six ninety seven season. And I think that once I retired, winning the cup every year after that meant more. You know, I think when I was playing I always thought I was gonna do it again. but when it didn't happen and it's done, it just every playoff season, every, you know, May, June, whenever the cup's awarded, boy, it's it's a great feeling to have have had that experience and privilege of winning. So it almost means more to me after I retired than than that. And It's I don't know. It it was special, so and still is. Mark: Well, y y I guess you realize that it it's not as easy as it seems. And especially as a rookie, you win it your first year, you know, why wouldn't you do it every year? You know. Mike Lalor: Yeah. Why Geno: Right. Mike Lalor: not? And the year before the eighty eighty-five, eighty seven the eighty-four, eighty-five season, I was in the American Hockey League and we won the Calder Cup. And we had a really good American Hockey League team, the Sherbrooke Canadians. We won the Calder Cup on May twenty-fourth, and I was roommates with Brian Scrooge, and we lived together in Sherbrooke and we're They had a parade for us in Sherbrooke and it was a great weekend party. And we're just sitting in the wee hours of the morning. The sun was coming up. And it's like, man, this is so winning the Calder Cup was so much fun. Can you imagine what it would be like to win the Stanley Cup? Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: And a year to the date, May twenty-fourth, a year later, we won the cup and we were on a parade going down St. Catherine Street and Brian and I were in the same car and the only downside to that is that Brian took an elbow in the final game and broke his jaw. So it's he wasn't feeling too good during the parade, but you wouldn't know it by him. But that was tough. So Geno: No, but that makes you appreciate your your journey too, right? And your journey through the American League and grinding it out and, you know, seeing what it takes to be a pro and then when you're actually are a pro, 'cause I think a lot of guys now are getting fast tracked into the NHL and I don't think they're spending enough time or it's actually valued enough to stay in the you know, the American League. Like I look at p who's the kid Portis or he's a fourth liner right now for the Bruins. And, you know, if he's producing goals in the fourth line, he just spent the whole year in the American League. Now he's up. I think it's so much value. Like how how mu how valuable do you did you put on the American league and your time there? Yeah. Mike Lalor: for myself and my own development because I I was a so called late bloomer. I grew up in Ontario. I played in the OHL and typically you get drafted to the OHL like you would to the NHL. But I wasn't drafted to the OHL. played a year of tier two junior and then got a tryout with the Brantford Alexanders, you know, OHL and played two years there. And then I wasn't drafted to the NHL and got a tryout with Montreal. And knowing that when I my first training camp in Montreal, I wasn't gonna there's no way I'm gonna go in there and make the Montreal Canadians. I'm a friggin' a good junior hockey player out of the OHL Larry Robinson, Chris Chelios, Rick Green, I don't like whoever was there, like, like there's no way. But if I could go to training camp and they could send me down to the American Hockey League and I could sign a a contract and and play and prove myself at that level, then maybe, you know, who knows where it'll lead. And It's exactly what happened. my first year, I go to training camp. They send me down to it was Nova Scotia Voyageurs at that time, playing Nova Scotia for the year, for the year. And I have John Brofi as a coach. And Geno: No boy. Mike Lalor: you know, John Brofe is right out of slap shot and Geno: Yep. Mark: Yes he is. Mike Lalor: legitimately. And he was he's as wacky as all the stories of as you heard. And They're endless and they never get old. Mark: He he coached He coached in Richmond when I I mean Hampton Roads when I was in the East Coast League. So I had some brofe interactions. Mike Lalor: see if My God, he had that white hair and he'd put one foot on the bench and he'd be yelling and his face would be red and his Mark: Ha ha ha. Mike Lalor: voice would go up like three octaves, you know, like Mark: Yep. Yep. Mike Lalor: fuck. But the one thing, he would he was a hard coach. He worked as hard every day in practice. And and I can say he taught me what it was to work hard. every day. I thought I worked hard. Everybody thinks they work hard, but to actually Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: have to work hard with him, he was the best. he was the hardest, but you hear that about a lot of guys, you know. he taught me what it was to work hard every day. And then so that was Halifax. The next year I go back to training camp in Montreal. I'm a better player, but you know still have a ways to go. They after training camp, they send me right back down. This time they moved the team from Halifax to Sherbrooke and played in Sherbrooke we had Pierre Kramer as our coach, right out of the Quebec League, very French. And he he was great. He didn't overcoach. You know, he was a good coach, but he did not overcoach and he let us play. a lot different than John Brophy yelling at us and killing us every day, but he let us play. Jean Amel came down and was an assistant coach and his steadiness and, you know, even keel and hockey intelligence, you know, helped help form us young guys. And then the end of the playoffs came or the end of the season came and we started the playoffs and the junior teams that were finished, like they sent Stefan Richet down, Patrick Waugh down, maybe Claude Lemieux. there were like four really good junior players that came down. And we just really got better with every game, every series and won the Calder Cup. And that was a confidence builder. Like I felt like I could honestly say I'm I'm a good American Hockey League player. And went to training camp the third year in Montreal and just played my game. and at the end of training camp was called into the coach's office and they said, Congratulations, Mike, you've made the team find a place to live. You'll be the seventh defenseman, you'll be in and out of the lineup. But you know, so that was kind of my journey and the advantage of playing in the minors. Plus, you know, I worked You gotta work hard to get there, but then you work twice as hard to stay there. And that was really that was that team. We started that eighty-five, eighty-six season with seven rookies, a rookie head coach. By the end of the season, Dave Maley joined us. So we had eight rookies. And that's a third of your team that are first year players. And for all of us, we all had to work hard and And not just because Chris Nylon fucking threatened us on day one. Geno: Mm-hmm. Mike Lalor: Literally. Day Mark: What was that like? Mike Lalor: one. It's training camps over. We made the the team, you know, we we had a day off and now it's the first day of practice with the team and we're gonna play our first game in a few days. And as we're getting dressed and we're in were the seven rookies were in various stages, you know, tying your skates and getting ready for the first practice. And Knuckles goes around and points, you, you, you, you, you know, you're like, yes, sir. You know? And you follow him out of the locker room down this hallway to what was the wives lounge. And he's and he's he's kind of kind and nice, you know, like, hey, you guys. You got Bob Ganey, Larry Robinson, Mario Tromblay, and he went, you know, these guys, they've won cups. They're older. They don't know how many more, you know, opportunities they're gonna have. It's our responsibility to friggin' make sure that we try to give them another chance to win. And so he was kind of like we're hanging on every word, like, yeah, knuckles. And then he gave it the old knuckles. And if you fucking don't, you're gonna Geno: Yeah. Mike Lalor: fucking answer to me. Geno: Bring in and knock down. Send straight. Mike Lalor: Now we're like terrified, right? We're like, holy shit, you fucking better work hard every you'd be getting a two-hand stick across the back of the legs. So we're it we're it's Christmas time. Midway through the season, and I don't know if it still works this way, but you're kind of a rookie until you've played 40 games in the NHL, or at least it was that way. And now we're all at the 40 game mark, so We're kind of tech we're still in our rookie season, but we're technically not rookies, right? We're half ha past the halfway mark. And we're it's around the holidays and we head out for a a long road trip out to the West Coast. We end up in LA and they always build in days, you know, to have off there and you know, so cold in Montreal and it's summer in LA. And we're practicing at this rink. And it was just a shitty old rink, you know, the old LA Kings, you know, Geno: yeah. Mike Lalor: and practice rink. The ice was sloped and guys are all hung over and whatever. Geno: These guys are spoiled now. Ugh. Mike Lalor: yeah. they don't know what it was. I wish I could remember that old rink in LA, but man. Geno: Those practice ring facilities are phenomenal. Mike Lalor: And so we're we're skating and next thing Stephanie Richet's lying face down at like center ice and just typical, like no one saw what happened. And we're all gathered around Steph like and he's like wailing in pain. And it's like what happened? Bob Gaty skates up, takes one look at Chris. Geno: Yeah. Mike Lalor: Bob never swore, right? And he just like a dad. Chris, you can't be doing that. He knew. And Duncles is like, Bob, I fucking told him. I told him Mark: Ha ha. Mike Lalor: if they weren't working hard, they were gonna have to answer to me. He was fucking around. Fucking Douglas like two-handed him. Mark: Jesus. Mike Lalor: Bob just like, Chris, you can't be doing that. but that was one of the great speeches that I remember from that rookie year was day one. And and all of us being first year players, you had no choice. You you had to work hard every day for myself to try to get in the lineup, try not to get sent down and to stay two more weeks to get another paycheck, you know. And man, it was and in the end we just got better and the team had the right. makeup of a championship team. And we just had a 40 year reunion for that 86 team. and some they had the kind of a you know where the guys are on stage, like a handful of them and they're being asked questions. And Bob Ganey was asked to reflect on wh why our team was successful and stuff. And here's a guy who went on to be a general manager and won a Stanley Cup and knows what the makings of a team were. And We had that and that still applies today. Like you look at the Florida Panthers or well, take Geno: Mm-hmm. Mike Lalor: the Carolina hurricanes, right? Skilled and tough and gritty and just you know head down and just doing what it takes, you know, and you know, Geno: Play like their coach. Yeah. Mike Lalor: and and and guys accepting Roles. Like Bob pointed out, like a guy like we had, Ryan Walter, who was a first round pick to the Washington Capitals back, you know, probably in the late 70s, was with us. and he's a skilled, talented player, a first pick overall. And and he accepted his third slash fourth line role. He he was a bear to play against, won crucial face offs, you know, and You know, you had Bobby Smith who was big and tall and, you know, not easy to push around. And you had Craig Ludwig on defense and Larry Robinson and just all the makings, you know, of of a well balanced team. And you know, it it w worked out for us. So fortunate that way. Mark: Th that rookie class that you were with, there was some pretty well known names in there that went on to have incredible careers. Mike Lalor: The one thing like that team, we were A, we all finished the season together. and and then everybody went on to like eight, ten, twelve plus fourteen years, sixteen year careers. And you know, Brian Scrooge played went Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: to the Stanley Cup finals four times, won twice, was the captain of at least two NHL teams. Sergio Momessa went on and played ten plus years and had a great career. obviously Claude Lemieux, you know, f four Stanley Cups on three different teams, but it's really almost four because he was with with Montreal, with New Jersey, with Colorado, and then back to New Jersey. So Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: and Stefan Richet went on. you know, scored fifty goals a couple of times and played, you know, Geno: He's a Bruins killer. Mike Lalor: yeah. my god. He he wasn't he Geno: Hm he killed us. Mike Lalor: he unleashed that shot. He was he could fire that puck. and then obviously Patrick Wamp, you know, to to you know Hall of Famer and four Stanley Cups or whatever he's got. Yeah, two in Montreal, two in Colorado. Yeah, so it was a you know, not only we made it through that year, but everybody went on to eight, ten plush years of of playing, which I think is you know, makes search of art look like a genius. Mark: Right? What you know, I asked the question because Claude Demieux is such a polarizing figure and Mike Lalor: Yes. Mark: you know, hated in some towns, including Boston. you know, we had Darren McCarty on and he talked about it. how is he as a teammate? Because I've heard he was a pretty good teammate. You just didn't want to play against him. Mike Lalor: You didn't even want to practice against them. Mark: Ha ha ha ha ha. Geno: Yeah. Mike Lalor: But but Geno: Well put. Mike Lalor: Clo Cloed was the best. Like I don't think he'll ever well, there'll be a couple guys that could say but I I love Claude and he was awesome. And we sat beside each other in the locker room. And he man, he he irritated his teammates and annoyed his opponents. Like Geno: Mm. Mark: Ha ha ha Mike Lalor: He covered them both, you know. But the funny thing was, like you'd you'd walk out of the rink and he was the best. He was the best Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: friend, best teammate, and everything. But you go into the rink and you're on the ice practicing and he would just like he'd piss you off. because for me, it would be we'd be doing like a one on one drill. Right? The defensemen are in the center of the ice, the forwards are split in each corner, and they'd come out and the defenseman would go up, pivot, and you'd play a Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: one-on-one. Well, okay, it's hard to beat somebody one on one, and you know, you'd get them, steer them to the boards, and okay, the play's over. And he'd push off, grab the puck, go in, and score. Now the goalie's not ready, like he thinks it's a done play. I'm think it's a done play and he freaking barrels in and scores and then he cheers like yeah now now the coach's head freaking flips around like this he's like tap my neck there's lawler he got beat you know Geno: Ha ha. Mike Lalor: And you're like, fuck off, Cloude. Like, you know. And so then you go through it and now, like, say, say you're my you're the defenseman in front of me, like, say it's you, Mark. I'm like, hey, Mark, it's all right, Claude's up, I got him. Mark: Yeah. Mike Lalor: So I take them again, steer them off to the boards, but this time I crush them, right? Geno: Right. Mike Lalor: He's looking at the ear hole of his helmet. And he's like, October neck on this, what the fuck? He's not the Stanley Cup playoffs. And you're like, fuck you, Clone. Like. And it was just that was practice with Clone, just always battling. But he in doing that, like, as much as it kind of irritated you at the time or whatever, you were never angry, because when practice was over, it was over. And You look back at that and tell those stories, it's like you need teammates like that, guys Geno: Yes. Mike Lalor: to push you that hard in practice, because it's the only way you're gonna get better. And Claude, he only knew one speed. He he worked hard. And you know, you come to the games and that guy, my god, he he competed and he you know, he pissed a lot of people off and that whole Colorado Detroit Red Wing, those five years, my God, what a what an era for those two teams at Western Division, the NHL, you know, and then you throw Geno: Right. That was awesome. Mike Lalor: New Jer New Jersey in there. The three of those teams just killed each other all the time. So but they were they were great teams. And you know, I'm honored to have played with Claude Lemieux and to know him and to call him a friend and He he was he was a good guy and it's sad that he passed, but Ken Danico on the NHL network was, you know, visibly like shaken up and they were they asked him to talk about Claude and he he was talking about him and there's only so much you can say on national TV, but reading between the lines. I'm like, that guy never changed. He was the same in New Jersey and Colorado. And you know, every everyone Geno: They all had success. Yeah. Mike Lalor: loved him. I always thought my relationship with Clone and was like the old wily coyote and the sheepdog, Ralph and Sam, you know? Geno: Mm-hmm. Mark: Yeah. Mike Lalor: Like they punch the clock and check in and then They'd work all day and the sheepdog would be freaking killing the wily coyote and then they would check out. Good night Sam. Good night, Ralph. You know. Geno: Great analogy. Mark: Yeah. We love that analogy. That's awesome Geno: It's awesome. Mark: to hear. you played with some incredible players. Who was the one that stands out the most? Mike Lalor: man. well Brett Hall. he that guy could score goals and Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: he could shoot the puck and how somebody gets don't know where they find the time and the space and the power and the one thing about Brett Hall, like everyone, you know, he scored more than he missed the net, but When he missed the net and that puck hit the glass, you were like, my god, it Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: sounded like it would it should have gone through the glass. Like that's how how strong he was. and he had an incredible hockey IQ. he he knew the game and he almost had a persona like he didn't he didn't even enjoy playing hockey, he just did it and you know, but I think deep down he did enjoy it. He was awfully good at it. The problem was that there are not many guys in the league that could be on that same IQ level. Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: So some guys had a had a tough time playing with them and he he wasn't that patient with Mike Lawler or a young a young Rod Brendamore. Roddy was centering was centering Brett Hall. And we're breaking out of the zone and Brett's going down the wing and Rod, one of the most intense, hardworking guys, you know, everything's guys out there, and this was like rookie year or second year, and he he sends a pass across and it's gotta be 20 feet in front of Brad Hall. Like normally guys just chase it down, right? Not Brad. He just like stopped in the neutral zone. Like it gave it like. Mark: Ha ha ha. Mike Lalor: Why was Geno: Ha ha. Mike Lalor: that? like I think there were 18,000 people on the stands that w like took a gasp, like, really? Did he just do that? And but he he was awesome. I mean all his goals and stuff and I hurt was listening to the podcast and Mike Keane was interviewed and he told a story that Brett broke his stick and you know guys hand their stick over the bench and he took Brett Hall takes Mike Keene's stick, looks at it, drops it. Comes back around the bench and grabs someone else's stick. Keener says to Hully after, like, hey, what was that about? He goes, what was I gonna do with that stick? Dump it in. But that's that's Brett, you know, and Geno: Yeah. Mike Lalor: but he was great. Timu Salani, I was in Winnipeg his rookie year when he scored 76 goals, and that guy was he Geno: He was awesome. Mark: That's crazy. Seventy six goals. Mike Lalor: He was so fast. He could go from zero to eighty. He could be standing still at the blue line, offensive blue line, standing still and still split the defenseman, you know. Geno: Yeah. Mike Lalor: And he went through the first part of that season, you know, scoring goals at an incredible rate. And, you know, by the the time you get Halfway through, teams are like, Who is this guy? We gotta slow him down. And back in that era, well, let's just play more physical on them. And we were in Toronto, and guys were you could tell them the first period, they were gonna make it hard on Timo. And they were whacking them and checking them and just and friggin' all Timu had enough. He friggin' laid three guys out and just was like, Well, I guess we don't have to worry about Timu. You know, he could handle himself. He was incredibly tough, strong, a nice, a great player. And the best compliment I heard is John Paddock, who was our coach, who said as good a team as good a player as Timo is, he's a better person. And I just don't think there's any anyone more fitting of that compliment than than Timu. But I mean Mike Madonna, you go on twelve years on six different teams. there's so many great players to play with in that. So yeah, very fortunate. So sorry they had to all put up with me. Geno: Yeah. Mark: Yeah. With y Brett Hull, I mean, and we just hung with Ally Afredi and the sticks back then were nowhere near what they are now. Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: Right. Mark: how do you think th the technology on the sticks would affect those guys? Because I mean, Hull had such an incredible shot with a wooden stick. Mike Lalor: Yeah. it's everything, right? Every generation, everybody's an inch taller, ten pounds heavier, that much stronger. The I mean, we watch the NHL today, the skill level of these guys, just at the speed they're doing, like Connor McDavid and with a flip of the wrist that pucks like a bullet, you know, and feather Geno: Ridiculous. Mike Lalor: in the pucks and that freaking What do you call it? From behind the net, putting it on the toe and wrapping it around you know, like Geno: S saw that this weekend. Yeah, the the Michigan. Yeah. Mike Lalor: I mean, we never thought about even that that that was possible. We'd take our wooden sticks, flip the puck up and try to bounce it off a blade of your stick. That was that was our skill level. Geno: Remember Ally Afrady telling me that it was all about technique. I go, Would you have a harder shot than you know, with with with the technology now? And he goes, Well, it was all momentum for me. He goes, I just kept skating through the slap shot, right? And he goes, It was all it was Mike Lalor: Yeah. Geno: all technique. I was like, interesting. But yeah, but I mean the Mike Lalor: Yeah. Yeah. Geno: technology, you're right. The the you even said it at the beginning of the podcast. Like, you're watching the speed and skill of these young kids and the it's it's ridiculous how how good these guys are now. compared to Mike Lalor: Yeah. And even filters down to the youth level. Like, Geno: Yep. Mike Lalor: my God, you're you're still refereeing, right, Mark? And Mark: Yeah. Geno: Yeah. I mean I see him in the ranks my daughter's playing, like it's ridiculous, yeah. Mike Lalor: and Gino, the same thing. You're in enough ranks watching the youth younger players that aren't even in division one or call or the pros and freaking they're good. Geno: I'm watching these eight-year-olds that can't even read and they're asking to do things on the ice, you know, that I didn't do when I was a banum. It's absolutely ridiculous. I'm like, this kid can't even fucking do math. Never mind. And Mike Lalor: Yeah. Geno: you're asking him to do this at eight years old and flip and do turn and spin a rammer and and do top dog. Like, I don't think I lifted the puck till I was at least eleven. Like these kids are shooting pucks every day. Like, it's unbelievable what's going on in youth hockey right now. Mike Lalor: Yeah. that was a good podcast you guys had a coup Geno: Don't me get me started, Mike. Mike Lalor: last week. Maybe it was your last one just talking about the the state of youth hockey and you know how intense it is at every level from kids to coaches to parents to you know. So hopefully everyone's Geno: So I mean no, you you bring Mike Lalor: finding the fun in the game still. Geno: No, they are. And you know, like I I I bring this up then when you played, right? I and it it's kind of frowned upon to you know, it's it's kinda cheap, it's kinda dirty. You mentioned like the slash in the back of the legs, right? Like these kids Mike Lalor: Right. Geno: are now swinging their sticks at kids' heads. Like we we never did that. Like you'd be gone and done. Like you would never play again. But we were taught how to be irritating and how to, you know, get away with a couple of little things just to be It'll leave a bruise, but I'm not gonna put the kid in the hospital, right? Mike Lalor: Yeah. And and I think that like if some of the outrageous things that have happened recently, like if anything close to that would have happened back in the day, your Geno: Police itself. Mike Lalor: coaches would address it and then your parents would address it. Like, man, my dad would be bullshit at me if I initiated or did something, you know, that crossed the line. Geno: Right. Mike Lalor: you know, it's Geno: But but the problem now, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. though I just Mike Lalor: You know the No, that's okay. Go ahead. Geno: think I just think the the problem now is all this stuff maybe did happen here and there, but now these kids are all getting publicly shamed, right? Now it's all in the internet. You can't hide from it. You heard about it, and you're like, Mike Lalor: Yeah. Geno: okay. And then these kids are getting disciplined, they are getting yelled at, they are getting scolded. Like like my daughter slashed a girl in the back of the legs as a goalie the other day, and I I know I I I was no, we're not doing that, right? Like a slash a slash, right? Boom, boom, tat for tat. But we're not just gonna start swinging our sticks to swing our sticks, right? And there's a time and a place for it and you know, whatever, and and a way to do it with with some gamanship. Now I think these kids are are just it's too far gone. With the internet. Mike Lalor: Y your s your daughter didn't give me the oath. What about Billy Smith? Ron Hextahl! Are you kidding me, Dad? Geno: yeah, yeah. Yeah, yes. I know, right? Mark: Yeah. Geno: A sod and shop. Right? I mean it all happened. Mike Lalor: my god. Geno: I mean, all this stuff it it still existed back in the day, but it policed Mike Lalor: Yeah. Geno: itself and it wasn't you weren't I think publicly shamed as as you are nowadays. I think it's just different, I don't know, broadcasting throughout hockey. And it's only five Mike Lalor: Yeah. Geno: five percent of it. It doesn't happen every game. It's not a it's it's not the norm. Mike Lalor: Yeah. That's I mean I have a grandson who's eight years old playing Needham youth hockey and it's fun watching the kids just play, you know, Geno: Yeah. Mike Lalor: and and they are out there having fun. it's it's nice. So it's Geno: Yeah, ninety five percent of it's it's it's enjoyable, it's fun. And you know, I I just think that like I I'm watching it too. I'm I'm in these ranks and you're seeing teams with like three subs Mike Lalor: Okay. Geno: and two subs and people running rink to rink and we had over eighty games canceled in the last two weekends. that's obnoxious. Like they were scheduled and probably forty of were were signed with referees, fifty of and boom, they're all canceled. And then we're shuffling things around. Because there's so many different teams and kids are playing on different ones, girls are playing on guy teams. It's it's absolutely absurd how many programs Mike Lalor: Yeah. Geno: there are and there's not enough kids playing. There really isn't. Mike Lalor: Wow. And yeah, it's a journey for these kids. I hope they're I hope them and their parents enjoy the journey 'cause it's it's a blast. It can be a blast. So Geno: I I mean there's something to be said about it. Enjoy the journey. I tell all these kids all the time and you know, her goalie coach says it too. It's like, listen, she's eleven. You don't want to break her yet, right? Like just let her have fun, let her go twirl around, but work hard and you know, instill Mike Lalor: Yeah. Geno: those good work and habits and when time to be serious, be serious. But don't come off the ice c all like yeah, you wanna win games, but like it's not the Mike Lalor: Yeah. Geno: end of the world. You're not slamming your stick, you're not, you know, let's have good behavior Mike Lalor: Okay. Geno: and have good traits and you know, values and that's Mike Lalor: yeah. Geno: what I want out of it. I don't want I don't care about the victory. Mike Lalor: I think one of the best things about sports, whether it's hockey or kids are playing other sports, it's it's the adversity that they're gonna face Geno: Yes. Mike Lalor: along the way. And through that adversity, that builds character. And if you can allow the kids to to deal with it and not jump out and, you know, I'll go talk to the coach or I'll go talk to, you know, the referee or yeah, I don't know, whatever it might be, you know. Geno: Right. Mike Lalor: to deal with it and I think there's a lot of a lot of good opportunities with kids in sports to to learn those lessons at a young age and hopefully it'll do them well as they Geno: Filter down, right? Mike Lalor: as they go into college and into life. So Mark: W being being zebras, how was your relationship with the referees when you played? Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: I wanna say pretty good. Like, hey, I wanted to be really friendly to the linesman in case somebody wanted to beat me up, like jump in there quick. Mark: Ha ha ha Mike Lalor: Don't let anything go too long. that's Mike, he's in over his head. Let's get in there. Mark: Yeah. Mike Lalor: no, the referees it just respectful, you know, and Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: I Think I I hope I respected the game and my opponents and my teammates and coaches and everyone else along the way. The one thing about hockey is it it's emotional. Like, man, because the physicalness of it and you you can't help but you know, the passion, the Geno: No out of bounds. Mike Lalor: emotion, the intensity, like it You get fired up and it gets the fans fired up and everything. And that's I think that's one of the great things about hockey is the emotion that it can evoke. but so with the referees it was pretty good. I loved Paul Stewart as a referee. Geno: Two cat. Mike Lalor: and I think it was on one of your last podcasts you're talking about refereeing and calling I I forget what your conversation was, but it might you might remember. But the NHL put an inst was it instigating penalty, not instigating, embellishing penalty in. Mark: Yep. Mike Lalor: And Stewie was like one of the only ones who was willing to call it. Like you gotta have the balls to call that. And you know, Stewie would. And it just hopefully like he would do it. in the first period and it would set the tempo for the rest of the game because guys Geno: Right. Mike Lalor: just played hard and you nobody was like crossing the line or flopping or anything. It was it was good. So Stewie was he was fun. you know, always colorful when he was out there and you know you'd get slashed and look at him to call a penalty and call you a pussy, you know What, you don't think he deserved that? All right. Geno: Yeah. Fair enough. Mike Lalor: Fair enough. Mark: That sounds just like Stewie. Geno: That's officiating. Mike Lalor: man. so I don't know, all the referees. you know, I think the le the game is much better with the two referee system. Geno: Mm, it's too fast. Mike Lalor: you know, with one one referee, Andy Van Helleman. Remember him? Mark: He was my boss in the East Coast League. Love Andy. Mike Lalor: really? So really nice guy, you know, rough ton of games and stuff. And he we're I'm with St. Louis, we're playing in Detroit and it's late in the game and it's a big game. It must be it's not a playoff game, but end of the season and the points meant something. Steve Iserman's playing with Detroit and I'm playing with St. Louis and defensemen and face-offs in our zone, and it's gotta be like less than five minutes to play in the game, and it a a five on five fight breaks out, and and when that happens, you're just grabbing the closest guy to you, and I grab Steve Eiserman. Well Hey, we're both the same age. We played junior against each other. It's Steve Iserman. Like he's, you know, the captain Geno: The guy. Mike Lalor: and like not that I could f fight, but you know, I'm not gonna fight him, you know, or do anything. I respect him too much. And lo and behold, he freaking hauls off and hammers me, you know, and Steve could fight. He never saw him fight because he never had to, but he and I knew he could fight, but I just didn't expect him. To beat me up. So he freaking clocks me, and I'm like, shit, you know, caught off guard. And now we're grappling and fighting, and I'm and he's got my sweater over my head, and I push him to the boards. And in the old Joe Lewis arena back in the late 80s or whatever it was, the glass Geno: Okay, no. Mike Lalor: wasn't as high up as it was. So Fans could actually stand on the board in their seats and kind of prop themselves over. And I've got my sweater kind of blinded. I got Steve all tied up. And I get these fans like, you fucking sucklawer, you fucking touch him, Mark: What? Mike Lalor: I'm gonna kill you. Like, you know. And I'm like, my god, what do I get myself into here? So Geno: Now you fight in the stadium. Mike Lalor: Fans are yelling at me, Steve, we're tied up now. Nothing's happening. And my sweater's over, my shoulder pads are off. And Andy Van Helliban, he was the only referee out by himself, and there's sticks and gloves everywhere. And it was like right out of slapshot. He comes up and like point, you two fighting? No. Both Mark: Yeah. Mike Lalor: of us like, no. He goes, Okay. So we let go. I put my shoulder pads back on and my shirt and stuff and pick up the gloves and when he finally clears up all the mess and the ice is set, face offs to the left are are goalie in our end and Steve's taking the face off and I'm out there playing. So Geno: Good old days. Mike Lalor: it the good old days. So now I don't know, a couple year a few years go by. And I'm playing at a charity golf tournament out in eastern Canada, Nova Scotia, Cape Breton, maybe. And we would fly into we flew into Halifax, and then we're taking a like a two hour bus ride up to the golf course and resort area. And Andy's on the bus. And there's coolers of beer, and all the guys are, you know, just having a good time, great stories, and I'm talking with Andy and I'm like, hey Andy, do you remember? You know, like I'm wondering, am I remembering it right or whatever? he goes, yeah, I remember that. I wasn't gonna give you guys a penalty. Geno: That's pretty nut. Mike Lalor: I'm like, okay, good. Geno: No Mike Lalor: As long as I wasn't imagining it. But Geno: That's awesome. Mike Lalor: yeah, I never had a reason to have any beefs with any referees or linesmen or anything like that. So It was good. Just respect the game and respect everybody's job. Let the coaches coach. The refs ref and and that. Geno: That's just it. Like just let the like especially youth hockey, just ignore the referees, act like they don't exist, and coach the shit out of your team. And that's it. Mike Lalor: Yeah. So that's Mark: Speaking of coaching, you you played for a lot of different coaches. What was what was the type of coach you liked to play for? And who was your favorite coach that you kind of did, you know, got along with or kind of fit your style? Mike Lalor: I don't know. I think I don't know which like you at the end of the day I've respected all my coaches. But you know, as far as like liking them, getting along, felt like there was a little more interactions at like with John Brophy and Pierre Kramer, you know. and then in the NHL, it's like when I was in Montreal, we had Jean Perron as the head coach. And Jacques Le Perriere was the defensive coach. There were only two coaches on the bench. That was it. And I don't in three years, other than that first, like that meeting in the coach's room after training camp when Jean welcomed me to the team, I don't think I talked to him for the next three years. You know, like I'd be sitting in the room and he'd be giving his talks and stuff. But all my interactions were with Jacques Le Perriere. Like I I love that guy. Like he was he was a mentor. He he helped me if I wasn't in the lineup. He you know, whatever. He was the defensive coach. And that's that's who I liked and really got along with. And then St. Louis, we had Brian Sutter, you know, he was just a hard-nosed, intense guy, twenty-four-seven. Like he never seemed take his foot off the pedal. You know, you could have three days off and walk into the rink and he'd have a scowl on his face, you know? and and then John Purpich was the assistant coach. that was in Washington. but Terry Murray in Washington and Terry was a quiet guy. He didn't Geno: Terry. Mike Lalor: say too much. John Purpich was the assistant like D D coach, but I don't know. Just you just went out and played. there wasn't much interaction with the with the coaches. Like I wasn't getting called into the coaches' office or them sitting down to explain. You you just sort of knew you were either in the lineup or out of the lineup. And if you were out of the lineup, well, you better figure out what you gotta do to get back in. And if you're playing six minutes a night or eighteen minutes a night, like You kinda know what it takes and you just it's up to you to work harder to to win the coach's confidence in to you know to play. I liked John Paddock in Winnipeg. He was he was a hard nosed guy. He he worked us hard. I think too hard at the NHL level, like practices ever you know, we play the next day. My I got traded from Washington to Winnipeg. I met the team in Detroit for a morning skate. That morning skate was as hard as any practice we had in Washington that year. I was like, my God. I don't know if I'm gonna last here. Mark: Yeah. Mike Lalor: but John was just a good a good guy. They're all they're all good. They're all doing their job. And I think as a player you always think you know more and than the coach does and And it was when I retired and I started to coach youth hockey. what an eye-opening experience. Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: these kids that are like eight and ten years old and I'm coaching and it was my first year, second year out of hockey, and I'm starting to coach. I I felt like I better get a pen and paper and write every coach I had a letter of apology that I'm sorry because I thought I knew more than you guys did. It was Mark: Ha ha ha. Geno: The di Mike Lalor: so and through that prod not that I did write the letters, but I should have and could apologize. I probably have apologized to every one of them who I've run into since. Geno: Mm-hmm. Mike Lalor: but I think I I respected all of them, you know, Ken Hitchcock. you know, all these guys, they got their own unique way about them, but they're only pushing you and the team to to win collectively as a group. And you know, some did it better than others, but they all had the same purpose in mind. So it was yeah, I learned from them all. Geno: You you prove my point with you know, coaching youth hockey that you've you played years and years and years of pro hockey, but when you're a coach at a U eight, U ten level, you're an amateur coach, right? Like Mike Lalor: Yeah. Geno: you're all amateurs. Like that's a different type of type of hockey game. It's not the same. And the expectation of a U eight, U ten game needs to change and it's unbelievable the expectations of people at for a U eight, U ten game. And what the Mike Lalor: Yeah. Geno: what what the whole purpose of us being in the rink is. And it's Yeah. But yeah, that's my point with the guys yelling and screaming behind the bench. I'm like, listen, pal, you're an amateur coach. Like you weren't coaching here for for years and years. I go, you you were off playing pro hockey. This is this has been going on, right? So it's a lot different. Mike Lalor: When I when I was started coaching the the kids in those first couple of years, I'd I'd run into guys that I played played against, you know, and knew Geno: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Mike Lalor: from pro hockey and I'm like, this'll be good. And this Geno: Yeah. Mike Lalor: one guy I don't know, down on the South Shore he was coaching and I'm chatting with him before the game, like, you know, we're joking, telling stories and stuff and Now we're on the benches and we're playing. He was out of his fucking mind. Like I was like, Geno: Isn't it wild? Isn't it fucking wild? Mike Lalor: my God, that's freaking embarrassing. Like he's yelling at kids, he's yelling at raps, he's yelling at our players. He's just like, What the fuck? This Geno: It's entitlement. Yeah, fuck off. Yeah. Mike Lalor: guy, I think he just like in my era back in there, I think there was a a group of fathers and coaches who sort of Came through the 70s with the Broad Street bullies and thought Geno: Yep. Mike Lalor: the only reason they didn't make it or they didn't they didn't work hard enough or they weren't tough enough and they were gonna make damn sure that their kids and their teams were gonna be tougher and not get pushed around and be the the Philadelphia Flyers. Like they missed the next era of the Europeans and the skill and the the game evolving. They're like coaching Mark: Ha ha Geno: Yeah, how to play, right? Yeah. Jesus. Mike Lalor: like Neanderthals and it was Some of it was scary, like, man. Mark: We've we've seen plenty of them. Geno: I mean these kids now, I mean I mean, they have all the equipment on the U eights, U tens. Like the like the coach goes, Well, what do I need to do? I go, Well, watch your kid, watch him pop up off the ice and get back in the play with a smile. Like getting bumped is kind of fun and getting knocked down and getting back up is part of the game. You got equipment on, right? I Mike Lalor: Yeah. Geno: go, if your kid's getting up and holding his arm and crying, like, okay, now we we react to the kid, Mike Lalor: Yeah. Geno: right? Make sure he's all right. Not yelling and screaming Mike Lalor: Right. Geno: at the referee because they, you know, whatever. It's like, get up, get back into play. And that's just it. Like I just put up a thing, my daughter skated out the other day, gets great bump, right back into play. Don't don't sit there and yell at the referee because you you fell down on the ice. And, you know, these coaches, they're like, my kid's the smallest and it's physical and he's gonna get hurt. Well, don't put him on the ice. There's no out of bounds in Mike Lalor: Right. Geno: hockey, right? Like, like you got all this Mike Lalor: Yeah. Geno: equipment on. The kid's not gonna get hurt. Mike Lalor: Yeah, that's Geno: I don't know. Mike Lalor: yeah, they were good good coaches for the most part. I'm sure some of would be interesting what if they remembered me or what they would say about me. Geno: Yeah. Mark: That's awesome. who we ask we ask everyone this question. and it's a s it's a crappy question in that it's a tough to answer question. Who's on your Mount Rushmore of hockey? Mike Lalor: man, Bobby Orr, you know, as an eight year old kid, I had a Bobby Orr poster on my bedroom wall. And you know, he's Bobby Orr, like living in Boston. You know, I you don't have to tell anybody. And and he's such a nice gentleman and everything that he's done, and I'm fortunate to have had the pleasure to run into him from time to time. you know, because it's still you know, it's it's pretty pretty neat, you know. and I don't know, can you go back to like like Gordy Howe was the best, you know, Mr. Hockey and playing as long as he did and everything, you know, that he he did for the game and And I think following in Gordy Howe's footsteps is like Wayne Gretzky, you know, like he retired in nine a, we all know what he did for twenty years and the incredible records that he you know, what he did during his time on the ice, but even more importantly, he's been such a great ambassador for the game of hockey. he's I've met him a couple of times. He's an incredibly nice gentleman, you know, and it's he's you know he's coached and he's done charity things and now he's on TNT and he's still part of the game and people like to listen to him, you know. is that three? Geno: Yeah. Mark: Yep. Mike Lalor: man, I don't know. It's you either go to the history of the game and all the great players and but for kind of moving along I I think you gotta go with Mario Lemieux, you know, Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: and you know and it played in his era, but for a guy to to be that skilled and go through what he did with his back and non Hodgkin's lymphoma and you know What do you he missed like half the season, came back and scored fifty goals or what you know, whatever Mark: Yeah. Mike Lalor: things he Geno: Right. Mike Lalor: you know, just incredible. you know, those those are four just off the top of my head, but I'm sure when we hang up from this, which I won't hang up too soon, you Geno: Yes. Yeah, we gotta we gotta wait to have it yeah, download first. Mike Lalor: know, they'll be a lot of guys going through my head and names of you know guys I played with and played against and watched you know yeah they're almost Mark: That's a solid four though. That's a rock solid four. Geno: that's so cool. Yeah. Mike Lalor: can't go wrong with those guys Mark: No. And you Geno: No. Mark: you played against Gretzky and Lemie, right? Mike Lalor: Yes. play the it was here's the story where I'm playing for the Washington Capitals, Terry Murray's the coach, and I was in Washington for two years. I had my first year there, I was horrible. you know, almost played myself out of the league. And I was minus twenty twenty something. that season. Like that's how bad it was for a defensive defenseman to be minus at all, but to be, you know, 20 something, it's Geno: Was the goalie? No. Mike Lalor: not good. man. And so go through the off season and I look in the mirror and you know know it's my responsibility and I commit to the off season and next year's training camp. And I am I'm just dialed in focused and physically, mentally, and play the season. But I could never quite win over Terry Murray's true confidence to to play me, you know? And like I played pretty much every game and stuff, but the minutes you could just tell, like, you know, as we're going on and we had a good team that year. And I guess Sylvain Cote is a defensive partner and depending on where we were playing in the change, if it if Gretzky's on the ice in the face-offs in the neutral zone, because we're in LA and they get the last change and I'm out there and you'd hear, you know, you'd get the whistle or the thing from the bench, like, and then you look over and they're like, Hey, which change it up, right? And it's like, yeah, I know, get the fuck off the ice, Mark: Yeah. Mike Lalor: Gretzky's out here, you know. So the puck gets dropped, and the puck just goes from the top of their circles to the top of our circles. There's no time for me to get off. And every second that's ticking, there's more like you know, excitement coming from the band. It's like change, change it up, get the fuck off the ice. So Geno: We're better off with four than than you. Mike Lalor: so, anyways, so I got to play against Gretzky, but it was limited, right? and then so before I get traded from from Washington to Winnipeg, I'm with the Capitals and we play Detroit, LA, Pittsburgh, and who else? So there was Gretzky, Iserman, Fedorov, Lemieux. We played another team that had a fourth all-star. And All four games. We played them like basically all in a row and every game was the same thing. Get off the ice, get like change it up. Like if those guys if I was out against those Mark: Yeah. Mike Lalor: superstars. And then I get traded from Washington to Winnipeg. I meet the team in Detroit. We're playing Detroit that night. John Paddock skated the shit out of me in war pre-game warm-up and or in the morning skate. He's like, okay, Lawler and Tepo Newman and you guys, you have Federoff and Iserman. So the other guys, you know, if if there's a change, whatever, we want Tepo and Lawler out against these guys. I'm like, all of a sudden, I'm like, I can't get off the ice against these guys, you know? And then we go back to Washington for a game, then we go to Pittsburgh, somewhere in there, we play LA right away. We play all the four big guns again. And I'm out there, I'm the guy. Like Tempo, maybe not me, but Tempo. Like it's like, yeah, I'm like, I'm gonna Geno: How bad was Winnipeg? Mike Lalor: love this trade. This is awesome. I I couldn't be on the ice with them two weeks ago, but now hey, get out there. So Mark: That's awesome. Mike Lalor: there was one I was with St. Louis and Gretzky was in LA, and that was my first game in St. Lou in a St. Louis uniform. And I'm in front of the net. There's Vincent Riando, myself, and Gretzky, and just a great picture of the three of us in line, and all anticipating or watching the play. And the next day in the St. Louis Post dispatch, that was like the Geno: Mm. Mike Lalor: pay the picture on the sports section. And so I got you know copies of that picture and the next time LA was in town, I got Gretzky to sign them for me. So that was Geno: that's cool. Mike Lalor: you know, so you you know, the excitement of meeting players and stuff, it's it's it's real. It's always there. You know, the respect you have for for everybody. So Mark: That's awesome. Mike Lalor: Yeah. Mark: Well, Mike, we wanna thank you for coming on, man. This has been awesome. Mike Lalor: All right. Thank you, Mark. And Geno: Yeah, thank you. Mark: And and Mike Lalor: Gino, thank you. And Mark, it was great spending that time down in Tampa and everything and from your show, the comedy that night to the whole weekend. You were on the whole time. So Mark: I did okay. It was a fun it was really a fun weekend and hanging with you guys and of course the SEALs and the Greenberg's the Rangers. Your son's an army ranger, so you know. Mike Lalor: yeah. Mark: it's just really cool to hang with those guys and then yeah, anyone that played in the NHL is to hang with them is cool. So definitely a good time. Mike Lalor: Yeah. So well thank you for for everything and great great being on your podcast finally. Geno: Nah, thanks for yeah, thanks for being on. Mark: All right. Mike Lawler. Thank you. Mike Lalor: Thank you. Mark: Gino, you wanna say it before we finish the recording? Geno: No, no, I don't want yeah, no, we're good. We already said it. Mike Lalor: Yeah. Mark: You already nailed it. Told you that was a good episode. Mike Lawler, what a great guy. Geno: Yes. Yes. Awesome, good stories. yeah, just just an awesome awesome dude. Mark: Yeah. a lot of fun and you know being away with him a couple of times, you get to know people and just just a rock solid dude and and a hell of a hockey player. Still still has it. Geno: I love talking to guys. I love talking to guys that played in that era in the eighties, you know, n early nineties, 'cause that's when like I felt like hockey was at like its greatest time where it wasn't like toxic. Yeah, it was gross. I mean, it wasn't like the the most skilled, but it was just like hockey, you know, just grit, tough. you know, and it kind of shaped where it is now. yeah. I mean it was just a total different era. It's a total different Mark: It definitely. I mean it de Geno: type of game. It's not even like you can't even compare to where it is now 'cause it's all speed and skill. But like it was just a different type of hockey that was I don't know. It was good. Mark: Well, it was it it was it was a lot more physical. I think the skill level, you know, the speed definitely it's faster now, but you had some really freaking skilled guys back then. You know, guys that could easily match the skill of guys today. Not the speed, but the skill. I mean, you you have f guys like Federoff, Geno: But well no, it it's like it Mark: Iserman, guys that Mike mentioned, obviously Geno: But it's like pitching it's like pitching in baseball. Like Randy Johnson was like one of the only guys that threw a hundred and twenty. Now they all throw a hundred and thirty miles an hour. Right? So like now you have they're all Federoffs. They're all you know what I mean? Now you have like you have like all the same type of player now. Like I feel like everybody Mark: Yeah. Geno: coming in is that and you only have like the Crosby's and the Ovechkins, like the McDavid. There's only a couple of those those you know, really, really elite guys. Who else besides McDavid? Who else who's the next who's the next guy that you're gonna say? Matthews? Yeah, like who? Like Mark: McKinnon. I mean, you know. Geno: who's the next like jump off the plate? Th there's a hundred Matthews. McCarr, d there's one. That's a great one. He he jumps off the screen. There's not a whole lot. Like Mark: Makar. Yep. You know, he he does. No. But and and I you know, my thing is, and I know it's hard to compare errand and whatnot, but some of the guys that are are s really skilled now, I don't think would last back in the eighties and nineties. Right? Geno: No, th that's a good point. Right. Mark: They get the bagbeat out of and then and and not just I'm not talking fighting wise. You know, think of how physical it was back. Scott Stevens, if he had one of you know, he he Geno: Well, how we Well look at Timu, right? Like he stuck up for himself. Like those are the guys that lasted. Mark: Yes. Geno: Like if you couldn't do what he did, then you're not you're not surviving. this kid, he's all done. We'll just we'll just beat him up. And that's that. If you if you were an Iserman that could fight, right? If you weren't yet that type of player, you did not survive. That's a good point. Mark: No. Well, and and you know, and and like you look at Eiserman's team, you know, he had Probert, he had Joey Koser, you know, there was there was those enforcers on every team. Geno: Mm-hmm. Guys that did a borrow, right? Mark: But those enforcers could play hockey too. Like they weren't just goons out there barely able to skate. Like, and that dates all the way back to guys like Terry O'Reilly and Chris Nylon. Those guys could play hockey, Geno: Mine Cashman. Mark: you know, and but those guys were the guys hitting the guys that, you know. I don't think a l you know, obviously the elite elites like I I you know Ovechkin could have played in any era, right? he just has that that body type and that toughness. And i so I I think w when people say right now they're everyone's more skilled and everyone's faster and everyone I I d I don't buy that. Everyone is the there's faster skaters comparable to the time. But skill wise, man, it's like the argument I have with a few of my friends about LeBron and Jordan. You know, and everyone says LeBron was more skilled and he's playing against better skilled guys and all this bullshit. It's like, don't give it to me. There's plenty of skill no matter what era you look at. So but it's fun to talk about. And like you said, it's fun to have someone on that played in that era. and and played with with and against all those guys. Geno: Right. Mark: Stop it. Everyone wants to hear the the wrap up. So with that said, thanks, Gino. We'll wrap this up. All right. Like and subscribe. Geno: Yeah, I wanna wrap this up. I got shit to do. I got all this red all these red fucking phone calls to get back to. So stupid. Mark: Well I know. but wanna l like and subscribe on YouTube. follow us on the social medias, the Instagram, the Facebook, and of course Geno: The TikTok. Mark: chirpingzeebers.com for all your merch. Wanna thank our sponsor, the referees crease. Wanna give a shout out to the Warrior for Life Fund and also thank you guys for for watching and listening. and Mike Lawler is our guest today. So great stuff. So For Gino Binda, I'm Mark Riley, and we'll see you next time right here on the Chirping Zebras. Geno Binda: you