Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / 3 innocent men wrongly convicted of murder - All Star Roundtable Discussion

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3 innocent men wrongly convicted of murder - All Star Roundtable Discussion · Nightmare Success In and Out

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What happens when he works here? Becomes your reality.
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Hi. I'm Brian Cassidy.
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Welcome to the nightmare. Success in and out podcast,
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where we explore a, how to overcome your fears.
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And Nightmares is set yourself free.
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We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
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Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
0:20
These stories can be inspiring. Sometimes sad, there's some
0:24
humor but hopefully you can come away with a nugget of something
0:27
that will help you knock down some of the prisons.
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You It up in your own mind. All right, now, I measure
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success in and out listeners. We are back with a special
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edition. This one is not your normal
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number success podcast because Marvin cotton, one of my
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all-time favorite interviews. If you guys are playing the
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board game, he was on a few months ago and one heck of a
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story if you if you remember Marvin was sentenced to life
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without Parole in. As an innocent man and served 19
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years, 7 months, 12 days. And there is a big case that's
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going on. It's a hearing with Lamar
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Johnson. And one of the cool things about
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this is is this is a call these exoneree Crusaders because these
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guys, they follow around and, and it's a group.
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I mean, there's there's a lot of these people out there that were
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wrongly convicted of murder and we're fine.
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Finally released. And if you guys are listening to
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the most recent podcast that came out Thursday, Durrell
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Burton is one of those guys who serve 24 years and finally got
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free. But anyway, I want to welcome
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everybody in Marvin cotton. Welcome my man, good to have you
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louder. Always about her and then I've
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got kin Nixon down here in the corner.
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We're on a little Zoom here. Ken did 16 years and finally is
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sitting in front of us as a free man.
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And then Eric Anderson, who was nine years and you guys are are
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you all from the Michigan area? Yes, sir.
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Yeah, we are from Detroit. Michigan.
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If I'm not mistaken and I might be wrong about this, but I think
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I'm somewhat right? There was an Integrity unit put
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in play. Was it three or four years ago?
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I can't remember the time period, but there was like
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thirty four and a half years, three and a half years old for
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and am I right about the number? There was like 34 men that have
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been released since that Integrity unit was put into
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play. Yeah, it's up to about 36 now.
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But you pretty much all point. So guys, tell me, you've
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actually been sitting in the hearing every day with Lamar,
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the Lamar Johnson hearing and man, it makes your head spin
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when you hear what happened, and but it.
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But what is interesting though, is you find out as you read
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through all these different cases like this, it's not
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unusual. It's just one of these cases
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that this happened. This way.
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What do you what's your always take on?
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On MAR Johnson and what is going on this week in the courtroom?
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I think what we're seeing and Lamar Johnson's case is
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historic, the judge is No Nonsense.
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You know, he's not tolerating any rhetoric, the repetitive
3:36
behavior that you typically see in these types of hearings, the
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judges definitely not tolerating it.
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I think the other the just from the visual effects of what we're
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seeing in the courtroom. It's not very often that you see
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a local prosecutor team up with an Innocence Project.
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No, to free. Somebody know that A bet that
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that's that's a new one, but it's also a trend that you're
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starting to see around the country where you have
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like-minded people that are really trying to see Justice
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served, right? It's not about stacking
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convictions. It's about getting it right?
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As long as there's an innocent person in prison, there's a true
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killer that is free to roam the streets and victimized Society,
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people like him Gardner, Tricia Bushnell Rojo, these are people
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that are true Advocates that roof Years and to see both of
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them would. And what would traditionally be
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an adversarial position to be on the same team?
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Now is Monumental, and I think there was a new law that was
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passed in 2021 and Missouri that this couldn't have even taken
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place before that. Before they pass this new
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statute where new people could. Our people could actually have
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these hearings before a judge and that's Missouri's a little
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bit behind on the curve here, from, from Allah.
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Other states. But at least we're getting into
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a situation where these these cases can be heard yet.
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And that's, that's interesting in and of itself is because, you
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know, in Michigan, for example, we didn't have to go through the
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legislator to put some law on the books to tell prosecutors
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that they can do something that the law doesn't prevent them
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from doing. And we should never put public
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pool or innocence. We should never put the value of
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a dollar on innocence. So when we see that type of
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thing when we've said in prison for so many years being
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innocent, you know, that's, that's like one of the most
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ugliest sites to us, you know, we don't get paid to be here, we
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don't have any personal interest with the exception of wanting to
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see Justice and someone not go through something that we went
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through. Right.
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You know, but the fact that he even had to be a battle to say,
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you know, here in Missouri with with Kevin Strickland and Lamar
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Johnson case, they putting procedure over innocence, right.
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Wait, did he bring up Kevin Strickland?
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Marvin, was he released last year?
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Yeah. Yes.
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And that was in the kiss. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
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We started coming down here for Kevin Strickland, as well as
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Lamar Johnson last year, and we've been advocating heavily
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for them as well as prisoners all over the country.
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You know, in Ohio, Indiana, Michigan.
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Of course, we've had several hearings that we participated in
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and testified in on behalf of me and that we believe are innocent
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back home in Michigan. So we Here in Missouri right
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now. But we're still on Zoom cause
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and, and, and trying to Advocate and help people back in
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Michigan, get out of prison as well.
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Innocent people, that's imprisonment as well as get them
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resources. Yeah, because you put a voice to
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it and that's what has to be done.
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I, I've had several friends call and talk about it because you're
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the timing of Daryl Burton's podcast this week.
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And then you guys being in town. It's got a conversation going
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with in groups and St. Louis here about.
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Wow, how does this happen? Can you guys give the high
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points of what you see went wrong?
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In this case, the bar Johnson's case, I think different things,
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stand out for all of us but can definitely start that off.
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We were just talking about this. Yeah, we're definitely were just
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talking about this. I think the number one issue is
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the misidentification. Historically.
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Statistically we have, what can be considered a highly highly
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red flag when it comes to identification statistic?
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Lee cross-racial identification is inherently suspect.
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Not only is it inherently suspect and this particular case
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that same witness is not coming forward saying I screwed up but
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I'm sure I didn't see what I saw when I said I saw what I saw.
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So now you're put in a situation where this is a double
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misidentification. He, he's telling you he did
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wrong and it's cross-racial where we know this has been
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ineffective throughout the years.
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The other thing that is you can't buy S is the government
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misconduct. You have documented evidence
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that the government compensated, a witness to do, what they
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needed him to do at that particular time without it on
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the record. It's been stated without that
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witness, there's no case against the Mark Johnson, right?
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So without the incentive to testify, there is no witness for
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Lamar Johnston, the Mark Johnson doesn't go to prison.
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So I mean when you combine those two things for me there is no
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case here. Marvin.
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You're on mute. Yeah, and for me along the same
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lines because it's kind of hard to find many points.
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Although we can find many points within the same issue because
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literally the only thing that they had in order to charge and
9:14
convict him, was this particular witness and the witness said
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that the two men that he sing has ski masses on and with the
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eyes cut out. So he made identification with
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what you see here. This area right in here is where
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he made his identification to sent a man to prison for the
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rest of his life. So and his first two lineups, he
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didn't pick anybody out, right? And he went and according to his
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own testimony and his affidavit. But according to his own
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testimony, when he told the officers that he didn't, he
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can't pick anybody out. He acts to office.
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He actually Therefore, who do you want me to pick up?
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You tell me who you want to God. And I said, he actually said
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this. And the detective.
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According to this witness said, pick three and four.
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He said, okay, three and four. And that's exactly what he did.
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And that should never rob a man of twenty-eight years of his
10:19
life. That's shouldn't Rob, that
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shouldn't rob a person for 28 minutes of their life, right?
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That didn't even warn a conversation because that wasn't
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Um, a real identification. Well, I think one of the things
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that identification, Marvin, I think one of the things that is
10:37
so important is to bring light to this, because I think
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everybody, if they woke up in the middle of night, one of
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their biggest nightmares would be to be identified in a police
10:46
lineup and not be guilty. And and especially if you're
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talking about something like murder, you know, that carries
10:54
life without parole that that is has got to be Ranked in the top
11:00
1, 2 3 of somebody's nightmare of how do you, how do you deal
11:05
with that? After that happens?
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Because you know, going back to Darryl Burton situation his
11:14
thing. He wasn't even in town when it
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happened and the person who Miss identified him.
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The characteristics was a person was 54 55, and he's 510 511.
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There's a light skinned person to are durable It was a
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dark-skinned person, so everything was wrong, but it
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didn't matter. It only took 30 minutes for that
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deliberation to happen with the jury.
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And he ended up to go to the 47 bloodiest, acres in the
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Americas. What Time Magazine dubbed it at
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the time? That that's the thing.
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You know what, what you what you guys are doing bringing light to
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this? It's got his stay.
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There's got to catch momentum to it because and I think you know
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what you were saying, can I think there is some momentum to
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it? I feel like there were talking
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more about it now than we have. I just feel like there's some
12:08
type of General conversation like was said, I don't think you
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see a situation where you've got the Missouri attorney general,
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and and the st. Louis attorney that, that are on
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opposite sides of the fence here.
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That doesn't really happen, very often.
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Unless your you've got some momentum behind the situation of
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the that is so out of bounds it's just so far out that you're
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like man we gotta do something about this.
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Absolutely. You want to go Eric.
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Hey, I'm going to go with that being said, that's part of the
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reason why we're here. We're here to bridge the gap,
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you know, to put a face to the issue.
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The issue is that The mean Progressive prosecutors a nice
12:58
commission until you units. They need people that cares
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about the issue at hand is no reason why the murder Johnson
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should still be sent to prison after 28 years and they know
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that the identification was suggestive.
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They know he was compensated for this testimony is nothing that
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signifies that he did this other than the person that was paid to
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make a statement to say, yes, the market, the one I did it.
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Other than that, we'll do. They have there should be more
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hair attorney, general, right? She should be way more.
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They have an attorney general fighting the conviction, so you
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just going to fight every conviction.
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I mean you only going to fight every convention we do.
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Right? Let the man now.
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Why are you? Why are you fighting Justice?
13:45
No. Part of their duty is to stand
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on Justice to make sure just to serve just not sir.
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So now give this man just as day from the unjust is that you all
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gave him? Yes.
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And I think that's one of the other things that's really tough
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is that once you're put into the system and once you're convicted
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it is so tough to untangle that it is almost like, you know,
14:07
just you trying to, you're trying to change something.
14:11
That the system, as you know, a huge weight is you got to push
14:16
it back up and try to Scurry underneath it to get through
14:20
and, man, that's a tough lift. What's even what's even more
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unique about Lamar situation, though?
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Lamar and Kevin Strickland. What's even more unique
14:31
specifically to them? Is we're looking at a situation
14:34
where it's the government, fighting the government.
14:36
Yes, about somebody's life. Like, when you boil this down
14:39
to, what's happening in this court, Vroom.
14:42
It's the government fighting the government.
14:45
Somebody's life hangs in the balance because the government
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can't figure out who's right. Who's wrong, right?
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That man's life is hanging in the balance right now, over
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politics, literally. I don't think it gets any.
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You can't simplify it any more than that.
15:02
And then to go back to earlier point that you made about this
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new law in Missouri. Yes, this is a historic law.
15:11
This is something that changes the landscape, the legal
15:13
landscape in Missouri. But how many people had to die
15:17
before that law was passed? How many people suffered through
15:20
prison sets and died in prison or on Missouri death row?
15:26
Before there was an Avenue to actually prove innocence in the
15:30
state of Missouri. At that law was passed in 2021.
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There's a lot of people that didn't make it to see 2021, a
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lot of innocent people that didn't make it.
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See 2021. So guys what a lot of go ahead?
15:45
Eric sorry. Um honestly I would say a lot of
15:47
innocent people living livid see the age of 21 in the Free World.
15:52
Yeah. It's a deep deep thought when
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you think about it that way that you know there's so many people
16:00
that actually being innocent in an environment that they
16:04
obviously didn't choose and should have been there died in
16:07
there and it's that's disturbing beyond what disturbing can mean.
16:12
But guys, what is the what somebody's listening to this?
16:18
What, what should they be doing? You know, we're very big on
16:25
accountability and the only people that can hold a
16:30
government agency or entity accountable is the people.
16:34
So, that starts with awareness, that starts with educating
16:38
ourselves with what should be happening.
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What we want to see happening and and and after awareness
16:46
becomes engagement, people have to engage elected officials.
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They have to engage. Age those that are sitting in
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seats that are that have control over the masses of our lives,
16:59
like we have to engage. So what we do is we put a face
17:04
to it, we give as much education as we can and then we hit the
17:09
ground and we get in our cars and we drive and get on
17:12
airplanes. And we actually come out here
17:14
and engage with people. We know that the government was
17:17
set up on the premise of the People by the people and we
17:21
really believe that Even though a lot of our experiences prove
17:27
otherwise, we're going to hold to what the Constitution saying,
17:30
we're going to hold people to account and every member of
17:32
society have that same obligation responsibility and
17:36
Duty. Hold our elected officials
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accountable. Yeah.
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No one will want to lay in their bed every night while their
17:44
family member. And they know that their family
17:47
member is innocent sitting in a cold prison cell.
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Only we can change that. Only the public can engage
17:56
government in a way you know? Yes they are endowed with this
18:00
power that we give them. We have to hold them accountable
18:04
and check it when we see they're not doing something right, they
18:07
have to be held accountable and only we can do it.
18:10
That has nothing to do with Republican or Democrat
18:14
Progressive or Concerta has nothing to do with that because
18:17
innocence don't have a political party.
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I got that from my brother Ken. Nixon innocence do.
18:22
Of a political party, it does not.
18:25
And and and people have to stop siding with politics when it
18:30
comes to human life because he could easily be you, anytime the
18:35
government get away with doing the wrong thing.
18:37
That just me, it just made it easier for them to do it to you.
18:40
Yeah, good point really good point for those that, Are not
18:50
engaged in the political aspect of it.
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There's other ways that you can get involved as well.
18:54
There's Criminal Justice Reform, organizations, all across this
18:57
country. There's National ones.
18:59
There's local ones their Statewide ones, there's always
19:03
something to do. There's always something whether
19:06
it's volunteering on the weekends or donating money or
19:10
lending yourself to being able to lend a helping hand making
19:14
copies. There's an innocence
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organizations all over the country.
19:19
Innocence projects take volunteers, they take interns
19:22
for college students, there's all sorts of ways that we're now
19:25
profit. You know, the work that we're
19:27
doing it is self-funded, right? There's there's all sorts of
19:32
startups that are showing a Criminal Justice Reform to be
19:37
honest. It's sexy right now.
19:38
Everybody's talking about Criminal Justice Reform.
19:41
I guarantee you there's a space for anybody and it doesn't make
19:45
a difference. You know, what you're gifted at,
19:47
whether it's, you know, web, Design or creative stuff.
19:51
There is a space for you. In this industry, we need help
19:55
lawyers progressives conservatives, conservatives,
19:59
have a voice in this movement, whether you believe it or not,
20:01
conservatives have a voice, right?
20:03
If everything was all one side, we would never get anywhere.
20:06
We need to hear from people. We need to hear the good, the
20:09
bad, the ugly, that's how we make change.
20:12
And this country by respecting each other's opinions and coming
20:15
to a compromise. There's a space for everyone
20:18
here. But when it comes to issues of
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Innocence, I don't think there's a compromise when it comes to
20:23
that nobody should die in prison for a crime.
20:25
They didn't commit that. It's just it's hurtful to think
20:30
about that. This is what our country is
20:32
still. Talking about going into 2023
20:35
that there's innocent people locked in cages that can do
20:38
nothing about it themselves and yeah, we know, Lamar Johnson's
20:42
name, we know Kevin Strickland's names but what about all the
20:45
names? We don't hear what about all the
20:47
names that don't bubbles. To the top, right?
20:50
I mean, that's it takes Advocates.
20:52
It takes people to get off their couches and do something about
20:55
it in order to change the system.
20:57
So, I would say, for everybody, that's listening, if you're
21:00
sitting on your couch and you want to get involved, find a
21:03
way, there's always a way. I was going to say, what
21:07
follow-up on that toucan. Is it?
21:09
The one scary thing that I see in our society right now is that
21:12
we are narrowcasting, you know, the people listened to the what
21:16
they want to listen to go to the place that only.
21:19
Here's what they want to hear and I think for us to break
21:23
through this is that we've got to get away.
21:25
Communication has to be hearing each other so that the movement
21:31
can be what it needs to be, you know, I hope that the Pendulum
21:36
starts swinging, back to normality with people, just
21:39
being able to talk, you know, just being able to discuss
21:44
important issues without one being evil.
21:47
You know, this is we're talking about real things that need to
21:51
change and only way to do that is to have conversations about
21:55
it, and it's got to be that way. Or it doesn't swing the pendulum
22:00
the right way. I agree.
22:05
Definitely, agree, two-way, communication effective,
22:08
listening compromise. These are all things that we
22:12
need, especially, especially and the wrongful conviction
22:18
Community, being able to listen to each other and really hear
22:22
what the other side is saying, is we have to compromise, we
22:27
have to do, you think there's issues to of?
22:30
And do you guys think is changing where You know, a
22:34
narrative takes one path and they go down that path and they
22:38
don't investigate what they should be investigating and War
22:41
for the expediency of of, you know, you get a conviction, you
22:45
get a promotion, you get a conviction, you get movement.
22:50
And it doesn't seem like there's been a lot of What should I say?
22:55
It's the freedom to be able to do that and at tell somebody you
23:02
know to hey that's is three and four but as far as their job
23:06
security and what happens if that conviction happens?
23:08
It's usually in a positive thing that happens, you know it's
23:11
another notch. Another conviction you know the
23:14
further we get away from that. The further the justice is just
23:17
for justice instead of what it does for you in the system you
23:22
know because I feel like that goes all the way.
23:24
Way up. I mean, I think the the justice
23:27
department all the way through from the local level, all the
23:30
way to the federal level. There's there's a, there's a
23:33
piece there that needs to be balanced back to that.
23:36
There's some harm if you cause harm that shouldn't be something
23:40
that goes on reprimanded and unnoticed, There's most
23:46
certainly no accountability on behalf of the government and the
23:50
current when it comes to criminal justice, when it comes
23:53
to Justice, period. There's no, absolutely, no
23:55
accountability. They are protected by law and
24:00
their job security, and I think that you are correct it
24:03
perpetuates the problem, historically it, perpetuates the
24:06
problem. When there's no accountability,
24:08
it leaves them with the freedom to be as destructive and harmful
24:12
as they wish and in some situations, Nations it even
24:16
incentivizes them to do. So when you boil down This
24:21
bigger problem of no accountability.
24:25
It's about case numbers. Right solving crime that the
24:29
police as we know are pressurized, sometimes they're
24:33
incentivized to solve cases. Statistics show that
24:36
historically, you know, closing cases, and case rates are have
24:41
been historically low. So the pressure from the top to
24:45
bring those numbers up causes people, sometimes to do things
24:49
that should be done. Or unjust.
24:52
And I think that that's that's something that that there's a
24:58
lot of good police officers out there, putting their life on the
25:01
line, you know, I know that but for those those those few that
25:06
take away people's freedom and and and put innocent people
25:11
away. Those are the, you know, there
25:12
has to be accountability for that.
25:15
And without that I think the system doesn't quite close the
25:18
gap. Because what it does, is it puts
25:21
It puts unjustly a black mark on the good men and good women,
25:25
doing good things out there, trying to protect the
25:28
communities trying to do the good things because they do.
25:32
But for the people that don't it without them having
25:36
accountability, it gives a black mark and, and unfairly to, to
25:42
the hole and I think the more that we could close that Gap.
25:44
So that those people are held accountable, but the rest are
25:47
recognized for the great job, they do would also be a A great
25:51
turn in the wheel. I want to highlight one point
25:55
when it comes to that video because I know Marvin are gonna
25:57
jump in on this one, but let me highlight one extremely very
26:00
important point when it comes to the police, right?
26:02
We're here this narrative about, you know, it's One Bad Apple was
26:05
too bad apples, that was just a bad cop, but we never hear is
26:10
the good cops getting rid of the bad cops, right?
26:14
If you know that person is bad. Why is it on society?
26:17
Why is it society's responsibility to discover this
26:19
when you knew it was happening for 20 years?
26:21
Yep, if you don't What that black mark on your name?
26:24
Then you do something about right.
26:26
Why is it left to society to come back later on and discover
26:30
that? 30 years later, this guy had a
26:32
documented history of being a bad cop.
26:34
Knew it all along and you did nothing to address it.
26:37
So in my opinion it makes the good cops look.
26:40
Just as bad as the back because you knew it was happening.
26:43
You did nothing to address it. So so I mean it exactly it's
26:47
complicit behavior and then everybody cries out about, well,
26:50
it was just one bad person. Well, you knew it was happening.
26:53
So, why didn't you do anything about if you didn't want that to
26:56
blow back on your name? You should have addressed it
26:58
years before. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:02
Pretty much stole my point. You know, we've kind of we've
27:10
suffered under some of the same, some of the same things.
27:13
So, and I know it's kind of hard for a lot of people in society,
27:19
not to really understand that. And we understand that, At, you
27:25
know, our experience we had in our case is all of our cases as
27:29
well as a lot of other exonerees that we represent and cases that
27:33
we follow all of those cases had corrupt, bad detectives, not
27:40
bad. Detective work, right?
27:42
No intentional, right decisions intentional, things being
27:46
withheld, intentional things being done, lies being injected.
27:52
Not starting with Witnesses but starting with detectives and
27:58
it's not one detective in Detroit, you know, there's been
28:02
many detectives in Detroit that have led to many wrongful
28:06
convictions, some of those Detectives Dozens of out of
28:14
Chicago. Illinois is in in New York.
28:17
We're just a couple of detectives had hundreds of
28:22
wrongful convictions thrown out but it's hard for bad cops to
28:26
exist when they existing amongst a lot of good cops, right.
28:31
We need human beings to really step up.
28:33
I think going into 2023 and Beyond, we really need good.
28:37
Human beings on every level whether Are there police officer
28:40
not we work with law enforcement, I'm doing speaking
28:43
engagements at high schools. So so we're not anti-cop or
28:46
anything like that. We come to the table and give
28:49
our suggestions and put our truce in every opportunity, we
28:53
get not only to make a better Department because, you know,
28:56
they public servants, they work they work for us but also to
29:00
help make a better department for everybody.
29:03
So we come to the table if they have a nonprofit organization
29:06
that they working with, we come to the table.
29:08
So we're not I clap. However, we don't accept
29:12
Injustice on no level from anybody.
29:15
You know, any fear that any of us had got left a long time ago
29:19
when they bark way into this, you know, and in the in the
29:23
experiences that we undergone, what we use our fearlessness and
29:28
and and we really give our fearlessness like a charity to
29:32
society and we can we do and say what people won't do and say for
29:35
the greater good of everybody, I love that kind of Going around,
29:40
the horn here wrapping up, anything else you guys want to
29:42
get out there while we're talking this up?
29:48
You know, I'm just like to say I'll just like to say not to
29:54
that point many things that point I would like to say, man.
29:58
I love st. Louis.
29:59
All right, let me very. I think we all can agree to when
30:06
we first came down here, it was a challenge.
30:08
Yeah, you know we are from Detroit.
30:11
But we have faith and we had confidence in our self and our
30:15
story and our desire to want to change the world to keep coming
30:20
around to invest our time and our resources into better in
30:27
Missouri. You know I know it's one step at
30:31
a time we stood out whole lot of work to do but I can vouch for
30:37
all of us day. We invested to try to change
30:39
Missouri, one step at a time. I'm that's a big deal and and
30:43
you know, the fact that you guys are doing what you're doing is
30:45
so cool because you are giving a face to the problem and that's
30:52
probably more important than anything.
30:53
A given a face to give it a voice to something that people
30:56
need to know. They might not want to know.
30:58
I mean, I think it scares people to think that these things can
31:01
happen because if it means if it could happen to, you can happen
31:04
to them. And I think sometimes that's
31:06
hard for people to face scares them true.
31:10
And it makes it easy. People to ignore.
31:12
That's what that's what makes it easy for people to, ignore what
31:15
you just said, right there. Marvin, let's talk about your
31:19
book. I've been, I've been looking
31:22
better, not broken, is running. Running wild on Amazon in the
31:26
number one category. What it go man?
31:30
Yeah. Yeah.
31:32
You know, I talk about a lot of what we've been through, but you
31:34
know, more about my personal experience, just the pain of and
31:38
you know, about it as well, just the pain of being incarcerated
31:41
being there, you know, wrongfully convicted that the
31:44
mental anguish, the emotional damage, the loss of
31:47
relationships, I lost, maybe 95% of my relationships and my first
31:50
year of being incarcerated. So you here I go out, you know,
31:54
in there for something I didn't do and I'm losing everything.
31:59
So, My book is a way of giving back in and bringing you know,
32:02
more and more awareness to these issues that we talking about.
32:05
Now here today, I'll tell you this, is it one of the things
32:07
about this podcast is what happens when your worst fear
32:10
becomes your reality. How do you adapt?
32:11
How do you survive? And I think the other part of it
32:14
is, is that after you dab survive, how to use your
32:17
experience? You guys are using your
32:19
experience for the good, you're making a difference and man if
32:23
you guys just keep doing that, we need to put an umbrella over
32:26
the United States to make this stuff happen. so I want to hear
32:31
what you do, you know, with your podcast and and showing how a
32:37
directly impacted person can come out of that accident and
32:43
start a process of repairing themselves, and become a success
32:47
in a lot of cases, like, almost everybody that I've seen, if not
32:51
every single episode, I've seen that you've done you,
32:54
highlighted these amazing success stories that don't Even
32:59
compared to people that haven't never even experienced that type
33:04
of impact. So I love what you're doing.
33:07
You give it a voice you putting on the right face on what change
33:12
looks like and giving it a voice.
33:14
And I appreciate sharing is your platform with exonerees.
33:18
Absolutely, I appreciate that. Marvin well guys thanks for
33:21
coming to st. Louis Eric, thanks for the shout
33:23
out for st. Louis st.
33:24
Louis needs that. Appreciate that.
33:28
I appreciate you for making it happen.
33:29
Happen. All right.
33:30
Marvin Ken, Eric thanks for coming to st.
33:34
Louis, thanks for giving your voice.
33:35
Thanks for supporting Lamar Johnson and hopefully, we can
33:38
get this guy home before Christmas.
33:40
Absolutely a with you soon. Alright guys, see you soon.