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The Cubs Look Flat + Full Pitching Staff Breakdown w/ CB · Monday Morning Cubs Show

0:06
SPEAKER_00: Good morning, good afternoon, and evening, Chicago Cubs fans, and welcome back to the Monday Morning Cubs Show.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: Today is Monday, April 6th.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: It is your host, Carl.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh Mahoney's out on a work trip, but we do have a sub, one of my close personal friends, and a great Chicago Cubs fan, a very astute baseball fan.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: A guy named CB will be joining the show today.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: But before we get to CB, I just want to say up front, uh obviously this has been an extremely disappointing start to the season based on the expectations that we had.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: I think that's going to be a popular theme we're going to capture in today's show.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: With that being said, welcome, CB.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: How disappointed are you in the Chicago Cubs right now?
0:48
SPEAKER_01: Carl, thanks for having me.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: First, let me just address the maniacs.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: I am one of you, so I'm excited to be here.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, big shoes to Phil with Mahoney out for today.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'll probably bring some similar takes as him, so just excited.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: But as far as disappointing, um, I'm there, man.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm not happy.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: I think you and I were discussing it a little bit.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh we got a chance to see each other the weekend.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm just the one word that I use is this team just looks flat.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: And we'll get into that more.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: But flat is kind of, you know, I I love this roster.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: I love the guys on it.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: I probably was a little too optimistic to think that we could cakewalk this division.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, but we're in for another 162, man.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, the way they're playing right now, I'm not really confident.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: So we'll get into everything.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: That's my initial thought.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Glad to have you on the show.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: I think people are really gonna enjoy you on the show, and I've tried to get you on the show for a number of months now, so schedules have aligned.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, so obviously, again, thank you, pal.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, excited to be here.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, love talking ball with you, Carl.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: Love talking ball with a Mahoney.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, a couple of my favorite people to talk Cubs with.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: Cubs is on my mind all the time, so we're we're here, we're ready to roll.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: With that in mind, you know, one of our close personal friends that you and I share, CB, is the man behind Thirsty Vaquero, and this is a perfect time to tell maniacs, go get yourself some on Amazon.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: It's a Mexican-style soda with the signature spicy finish that's all bite, no rattle.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: CB, which is your favorite flavor?
2:16
SPEAKER_00: Mango Muerte, spicy watermelon, or Lamon Ladron?
2:20
SPEAKER_01: Spicy watermelon, it stuck with me.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: First time I had it, actually, Thirsty Vaquero, a couple guys came over to my house.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: I believe you were there as well, Carl.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was just in sampling portion, and I uh I couldn't I couldn't stop drinking it.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, the time of year is coming for that for that watermelon beverage.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: It gets warmer, you're on the patio.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh, they're all great.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: I I just draw to the watermelon.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: And it's an easy crowd pleaser.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: You know, when you have people over, how many times you've thrown, you know, whatever, domestics in the bottom of a cooler with a sheet of ice on top and just prayed for a miracle that people enjoy themselves.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, Thirsty Vacero will take it to that next level.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: Like it will absolutely add that extra spice, that kick when we say all bite and all rattle.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: It's the type of thing.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: Somebody's gonna have it.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm telling you, you want it in your fridge, and it's best acquired on Amazon three bold flavors.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: If you're in between, get a sampler platter, get a pick, get a full, get a full fucking get all three, you know.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: So that's available to you.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: That's why we can do Thirsty Vicero, uh, or why we can do the Monday morning cub show is because of Thirsty Vicero.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: And as I'm sitting here and I'm about to enjoy and present this great conversation with CB, I'm just blessed and grateful to say thank you to Thirsty Vicaro for sponsoring the Monday morning cub show.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: And I just encourage maniacs, give it a shot, throw it in the fridge, throw it in your next Amazon cart.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's good shit.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: It's good shit.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, give it a shot, like you said.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's also a couple, you're having people over.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's the the wife's friends, you don't know well, maybe it's a neighbor coming over, you bust that out.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: You're like, hey, have you tried this Mexican style soda?
3:51
SPEAKER_01: It's a crowd pleaser, people love it.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, get some in your fridge, get some in the cooler, um, and and and let's watch some Cubs baseball while having a thirsty of a carol.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: If your old lady's pregnant too, so just something to think about.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: All right, so we're talking about Cubs here, we're talking about the Chicago Cubs, and just a popular thing you know, we do on this show is a is a exercise of conversation is ball or strike, just to get the thing rolling.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: And I I feel like that's an appropriate starting point for you, just because, you know, like this is your first appearance on the Monday morning cub show.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: So I guess we'll just start here.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, baller strike, Cade Horton's injury has the potential to give us the worst injury news in Chicago since D Rose.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: Potential is the key word here.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, when's the last time we saw a young guy get injured?
4:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, like this, so tragically, he's so good.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: Am I overreacting to compare it to Derrick Rose, or where would you compare, I suppose, where does it register with you?
4:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you might be overacting a little bit, but yep, it has a chance to it has a chance to be that because now what we're doing is uh we're depending on Justin Steele coming back a little early from his Tommy John.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: What if he it's gonna take him a while to bounce back?
4:59
SPEAKER_01: I'd be ready.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: You know, I loved where we sat six weeks ago looking at the starting rotation.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: I was like, do we get Zach Allen?
5:06
SPEAKER_01: No, we don't need him.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: We have six guys, we have seven guys, we have Assad down in triple A.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: We have Ray, who's been great in the swing.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then Tyone looks like trash in spring training.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: He looked good in the first start, and we'll see how he does this week.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, you get that great news about Justice Steele, we're rolling, baby.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: We're rolling.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: And then Kate Horton shut down.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, we haven't heard the news yet, as far as I haven't heard the news yet.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you have, but um, I don't like where it sits.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: I don't like the tears coming off, coming back into the courthouse.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he knows where it is.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: Um this could be really bad if we if we need to depend on Justice Steele and we're gonna go into the deadline looking for another arm, just like we always do.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: So I was conflicted to say, do I start with Eddie Cabrera and him being successful through his first two starts, or do I open with Caden Horton's injury?
5:54
SPEAKER_00: And ultimately I decided Cade Horton's injury because it's just gonna be a significantly Eddie Cabrera needs to have 10 big fucking starts in a row for it to overcome the Cade Horton injury news.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: Cade Horton being out for the season, and I've made issue before with his lower half just not being big enough for the the amount of force behind it when you have a short arm delivery, too.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: There's just so much force in the shoulder and the arm, the elbow, the wrist, the tendons, all that shit.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: And I've said before, with the amount of force that he throws, this is why you value size and pitchers, is because they have the the body size to absorb just the day to day.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, there's so much wear and tear that it goes into your body.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: So seeing that Cade Horton's body early into the season falls apart.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, obviously for him, you feel bad.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: You feel bad.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: I was distraught when it first had when it first broke.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: I was so mad.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: I was like just pacing.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: I didn't, I was like, I knew, especially after the tiger stuff, if I put a video out in that moment, I would get fucking roasted for how serious I took it.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to, you know, I I have a couple Cubs group chats.
6:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm with with you on one of them.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: It's one of my favorite things, look at my phone and see that that Cubs chat pop.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: But I think I wrote in our group, hey, this is not good.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: And I sent that.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: I almost was like, why did I send that?
7:11
SPEAKER_01: You know, but I 162 games, man, you live and die.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: And Kate Horton, I was so excited about him last year.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, they had that pitch count last year.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: He wasn't throwing a lot.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then he got shut down, and now we're right back kind of at square one, or taking 10 steps back, most likely.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: But most likely.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: Most likely.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: What but what would you say is best case scenario here?
7:32
SPEAKER_00: Best case scenario is four to six weeks.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: And he's back, and it's just a thing that popped up, and that they can you know, massage it, tiger bomb it, whatever they do, you know, they got stuff going on, ultrasound machines, they can put stuff back in place pretty quickly.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: But for Cade Horton, here's the issue is like I'm thinking about this.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: Like, if it was our high school team, like, yeah, dude, we need Cade Horton back, you know, it's the college team, like, when can Cade come?
8:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, here's the reality is that this guy is worth like 25 million dollars a season.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: He's already shown it, everybody knows it.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: So he has no personal incentive to return until he is absolutely 100%, which who knows, dude.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm in the I'm in my head thinking, like, will he ever be 100?
8:19
SPEAKER_00: Is this who he is?
8:20
SPEAKER_00: Is he a guy who just like is he dealt?
8:22
SPEAKER_00: This is why he was on a pitch count.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't want to complain about him being injury prone.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: I I I this is where I want to ask you this because do you want him to come back and and this is gonna sound stupid to the maniacs listening?
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Do you want him to come back in six weeks and then be on that pitch count the rest of the year and exhaust our bullpen?
8:43
SPEAKER_01: Or do you want him just to get right and come back next year, whether it's April or July, no matter, you know, depending on how long it takes, and we have Kate Horton back.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: And and I'm not sending the group chat text being like, why is Craig taking him out after 44 pitches our bullpennies a day?
8:58
SPEAKER_01: Um what do you what do you want?
9:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously we want to be healthy, but what's what's the best case scenario as far as for the team?
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: Are we locked in on the fact that this has to happen either like this June or next June?
9:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think a I think an ideal circumstance for me is that Kate Horton comes back around the trade deadline at 100%, so we don't have to trade for anybody.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: We can do that storyline, like that's our biggest trade activity.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: It's a trade, yeah.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: There's always a warrant every year.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: We're getting him back.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, it pisses me off.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: It at least it would have been nice to get a couple starts out of him before forearm stuff, so it could have lined up better with Justin Steele.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: So, like, that was my other thing.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: Baller strike to you.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh, Justin Steele, way more urgency, way more urgency without getting to A to get back and B, be good when you're back.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: See, before Kate Horton got hurt, we were more like just wait till Steel, and whenever he wants to show up, as long as he's now it's like, uh, hey, what are you doing in May?
9:54
SPEAKER_00: You ready to go, dude?
9:55
SPEAKER_00: Mother's Day?
9:56
SPEAKER_00: What do you say about that?
9:57
SPEAKER_01: Here's my meatball take because I, you know, I I love baseball, but I'm I'm probably more on the Mahoney side where I I go off a lot of gut and meatball, and Carl is really good about describing everything.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: My meatball take is that I I think Justin Seele steel has the balls to be like, yep, we're ready.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: Mother's Day's coming around.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm ready to throw.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: Is that good or bad?
10:17
SPEAKER_01: It's not for me to say, but he's the right guy, mindset-wise, that I would be like, okay, when he's ready, he knows he's ready.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: My strategy, I feel like a poker player.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: No, this is a bad analogy.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: I'll just tell you what my strategy is, and then maybe we'll come up with an analogy for it.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: No fucking poker player.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: Uh I was watching Casino Royale this weekend, that's why I was thinking about it.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, no, I think if you ask me individually about each pitcher, my answer is always gonna gear towards I want them thriving in the second half down the stretch towards the playoffs, and that applies to everybody Shoda, Boyd, you know, obviously Kate Horton.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: We're talking about him, Justin Steele.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, but if I say that for everyone, then where's the urgency now in April, in May?
11:07
SPEAKER_00: So we have to deploy some urgency.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: And I do think Matt Boyd can pitch with it, and and will pitch at the top of the rotation in the first half.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: He looks like he's got swing and miss stuff.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, I do think it gives Justin Steele just a little bit more of a bump to like not only is it gonna be nice when you come back, but like it's a way different animal when it's like we need you to come back.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: And he isn't signed in the long term, is he?
11:31
SPEAKER_00: No.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: This may be a diabolical situation for him.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe this helps his mental timeline.
11:38
SPEAKER_01: Maybe he maybe he's like, okay, now I know I have to come back earlier, uh get my body right.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: Um he's a he he's a dog though.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: He like he's a guy you want to have the ball, which could worry me a little bit because maybe he tries to come back too quickly.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: But uh the doctors cleared him.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: I still it's like that weird kind of middle round where he's cleared for full activity, but he's definitely not ready.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's gonna make his rehab starts.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: That'll be cool.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Will he go as far as South Bend, or is it just gonna be Tennessee Smoky, or will it just be Iowa Cubs?
12:07
SPEAKER_00: That'll be interesting.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: Let's get in the car and go see him throw at South Bend, and then we can have a recap show on the way back.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's something that's gone from baseball is the full stop minor league comeback tour.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: Like I feel back in the day, it used to be a regular thing where you'd have to go to A-ball, high A, double A, triple A, make all four stops, buy four team dinners, tip four different clubhouse attendants, just be to be down in the minors for four different stops.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: You gotta earn it back, dude.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: I don't you do that to Justin Steele, you're probably in some big trouble.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: I would guess he gets a double A start, then some triple A starts.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: But it again, the shitty part is, and maybe this is a different conversation if the Cubs are five and two through seven games, or what I shouldn't say that, or seven and two through nine games.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe it's a different conversation, but the reality is they're four and five, so we're just reacting to what's in front of us.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: And now that just makes me think there's urgency, there's probably no more or less urgency in this clubhouse as I ration through it.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: There's too many veterans, there's no way Craig Council gives a shit.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: They're down four, you know, they're four and five.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: No.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: Where where are you at with with I guess we should say ball or strike?
13:19
SPEAKER_00: Do you like Craig Council?
13:21
SPEAKER_01: I've been hard on them, I'll be honest.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: I everyone loves him.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: I I think I think C B is it a ball or a strike?
13:28
SPEAKER_01: You're killing the audience.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: You won't say ball or strike.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: This is a ball.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: Um thank you.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: You pay him so much money.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: He comes in.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: I didn't love I didn't love, I don't love the way he handles the the staff much.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: Um this is the year he's gonna have to show something.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, what is his third year in?
13:48
SPEAKER_01: He he's like he's the highest paid manager.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: It's not even close, is it?
13:52
SPEAKER_01: As far as the thing is paid second.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: Um he's paid for an injury like Kate Horton to happen and to fix it.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: Well said.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: This is this is why you pay Craig Council$8 million because now he's smart enough to figure out how to fill those innings.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's the way the team is talking about is how do we fill the 140, 150 innings Kate Horton was gonna give you.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but then I you know, I look up at the standings and Milwaukee's seven and two.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: They they didn't they're not missing them.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: I know.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: I I was gonna make the point at the start of the show, it might be too early to talk about other teams in the division, but do you want to talk?
14:30
SPEAKER_00: Milwaukee looks good.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna bring them up, they look good.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: Milwaukee looks good.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, there was kind of being my ball that was gonna have the ball and strike, and I don't know if you want me to say it now was if I you know a month ago I thought we'd walk and win this division in 97 games.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: Now you're looking at Milwaukee, they're juggernaut right now.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's early, obviously.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: They played the White Sox.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, Pirates look good.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: Reds pitchings looked good, and they're missing a couple starters.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: We got some competition in this.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's gonna be as easy as we thought.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: I think there's some urgency that needs to start pretty pretty quickly here.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: Baller strike me.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: What is it?
15:05
SPEAKER_00: Baller strike, we're gonna win the division.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna win the division.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: That's a strike.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: Baller strike, they're gonna win the division.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: Strike.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: This ABS, man, we're getting the challenge system out on this one.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: What was a clear strike a week ago, two weeks ago, I would have argued.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: Because here's the thing it's not just that we're four and five, it is losing Cade Horton, and it's losing Kate Horton before Justin Steele comes back.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: We still have deep listen, we still have deep pitching.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: I've made the arguments we could sustain a major injury to the starting rotation.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we can mean we can sustain an injury to our everyday position players.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: We've had both of them now, Cade Horton and Nose Suzuki.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: So staying on the pitching step for a second, though, ball or strike, Ben Brown should not be pitching seriously in major league baseball for the Chicago Cubs.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: Long inning, maybe relief.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: What's his role?
15:55
SPEAKER_00: That's a strike.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: That's a strike.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: He he needs he needs to go down for a little while.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: Um I I he was what top of mind.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: He was one of the first things I wrote down.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: I was I knew I was gonna speak to you today about this.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not like he lit the world on fire last year.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he he was no good last year, he didn't look good yesterday.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, he needs some time away to figure it out.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: I love his stuff.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: I I wanted to look back, I couldn't find this text I sent you before last season.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: Excited about Ben Brown and like how do we use him?
16:27
SPEAKER_01: Is he gonna be a swing guy?
16:28
SPEAKER_01: Is he gonna be a starter?
16:29
SPEAKER_01: He has that nasty stuff.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: He could be a late in late inning high-leverage guy.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: I have confidence he could do zero of that right now after watching him pitch all last year and already this year.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: When he gets uh when he gets on the mound, I I I just I can't take it right now.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: He needs six weeks away, a month away.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: And again, that's why we pay Craig Council.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: Can we figure out how to backfill that?
16:50
SPEAKER_00: We need to break Ben Brown's heart, and that might mean trading him or DFA.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: He may not be good until he has his heart broken again.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: And I mean that maybe when he was with the Phillies organization, he could have felt because he came over in the Dave Roberts trade.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: I think in 22 or 1 or whatever, but maybe the sentiment he had was like I was overlooked with the Phillies.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: He's kind of always been an overlooked guy, he didn't get drafted very high, but obviously the stuff plays.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, mentally I couldn't think any less of a player, and that's because he has such great stuff.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: It's in it's incredible to me he could have such great stuff and be such a huge pussy at the same time.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: Like the fact those two things exist.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: The best comparison I would think of is like a really soft offensive lineman who's just got all the physical traits and just jumps off the board.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: Like, this guy's gonna be a mauler, and then you get in the trenches, you're like, wait, why is this guy such a bitch?
17:40
SPEAKER_00: That's what Ben Brown is as a pitcher for people who can't understand why he's not better.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: It's because he is a pussy.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, he's still I think the thing that bothers me about him a lot is I was watching yesterday, he threw a couple pitches.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: I was like, that is a nasty pitch.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, this guy's got the stop.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: Don't do it, dude.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: I hate it.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm telling you, this I have a I have a struggle with this because then I'm like, okay, maybe I'm too hard on him, but no, he he he needs time to wait.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't go as far as DFA him right now, um, because they might need him, but he's not the guy right now.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: He's he's like dating a stripper.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm sure there's moments it's awesome, buddy.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: It's just he's his strippers, he's gonna blow you, you know, in the back of whatever.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: You're waiting for your Wendy's frosty, and you're getting a Hummer in the front seat.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's part of what you get with Ben Brown, is that sometimes it's like, man, this is awesome, but at the same time, he's a dirty stripper, he's an Atlanta stripper, he's definitely gonna get out and he's there's no way he's gonna be loyal to there's no way you're gonna have a good long-term experience with this filthy stripper that is Ben Brown.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: That's just who it is.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: Emotionally, it's gonna break you, but you're gonna have those moments where you go, that's a great pitch.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: He looked great that inning.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: I wish I wish she was like this all the time.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: She's not going, she's a stripper.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: So bringing like br you don't want to bring the stripper home to your parents on Easter, and you don't want Ben Brown pitching in the E thing against the Dallas.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: No, I get the confession though.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: These are now otherwise, though, I do like her bullpen.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Uh, they used Webb in a high-leverage situation that kind of bothered some people.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: He shit his pants, give it up three runs, I suppose.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: But like that, you're paying this guy as a veteran free agent to come in.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: You can't just say you're not gonna pitch high-leverage situations, like everybody's pitching.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: This is like early in the season, everybody's gonna pitch some high-leverage situations.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: Everyone's gonna pitch.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: It's the second game of a doubleheader, and he's like not a terrible pitcher historically, he's an older guy.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: We don't have these young shitheads that are throwing the ball over the place.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: It's like you just see older guys that are rusty early in the season, is how I'm rationing my way through the bullpen.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I suppose I'm starting with Webb because he recently surrendered multiple runs at the end of a game, but there's other victims here, Phil Maeton, etc.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: Bullpen hasn't looked great, but it's early.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, kind of goes back to what I said.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: The whole team kind of looks flat.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: The thing that's discouraging is you could point to, hey, we've been playing in Chicago, we played in Cleveland, it's cold, we can't get the bats going, but then why are we letting up three runs from a from a high leverage reliever?
20:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I mean, it's early.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm trying not to get too hard on the bullpen.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: Bullpen's are really weird things to build.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you'll spend a lot of money and you think you have a great bullpen and they're trash.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: And then sometimes you put together a 39-year-old who was teaching geometry six months before and he's got an ear to have 2.2.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: So, like, let's let's give the bullpen some time.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: Um after after I just trashed Ben Brown for about 10 minutes.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna give the bullpen some time.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: But that that's a little different since we have that.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: We we'd have longer history with Ben Brown here.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: I have more confidence in the bullpen than like anything else about this team.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh no, the defense.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, defense first because you have just littered with gold gloves, and that's the most predictable thing.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: But then the bullpen after that.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: So I'm I can endure these early season issues.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: There's several reasons why I can endure them.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: But the easiest part is just the trust in the bullpen comes from a place of if you look at each individual guy and them being veterans and them having really established careers prior to the season, like there aren't weak links.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: The only weak like storyline here is like can and I this is a crazy thing because people love him, but like literally the softest storyline for me in the bullpen is like is Daniel Palencia a lockdown elite closer, top end tier one MLB closer, or right behind like the Edwin Diaz's.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: Is he in that conversation?
21:34
SPEAKER_00: A lot of people immediately say yes, but to me that the rest of the bullpen is I have more confidence that Phil Mayton's a setup is a shutdown setup guy, even though he fucking stinks right now.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: Like I love the bullpen.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm with you in Palencia.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: I love I love his stuff.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: He's got the potential to be a Diaz.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: He's not there yet, in my opinion.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: No, he need he needs more time, but he could he could prove it.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I don't take a lot of stock in the world baseball classic.
21:59
SPEAKER_01: I did watch every game.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Because I love baseball.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: And high leverage stuff when he's passionate, man, he he is pretty lights out.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: And if we could see that come September, come August, come playoff time, he's got the stuff for it.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: He couldn't get into that tier really quickly.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: He can get by with his fastball and his combination of breaking stuff right now, which includes a very good but inconsistent splitter and like a very average to below average slider that works off of a plus plus fastball.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: So like if one of these two secondary pitches emerge, then he should be.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: Like if it's mid-July and he has a feel for the splitter, and it'll come with time.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: Like it's just gonna come with time and experience and all that stuff.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: But I'm just if he does get that second pitch, then he's it he will absolutely ascend into that because he has the mental side is there in that world baseball classic, watching him pitch in late innings against Japan and the United States, visualizing that for my team.
23:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: And the Cubs fans will give him that, and Wrigley gives him that intro.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: He has everything behind him to be elite.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: So I'm saying this because I introduced it originally as my softest storyline, and as we ration through it, it's like I'm pretty confident he is gonna be very good.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: So that's all the more reason why I have confidence in the bullpen because, as I'm saying, the softest thing I could talk about, I'm I'm hard in on.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm a hard yes.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: And you you'll probably know better, but I feel like his secondary pitches have been have been really improving.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, after the all-star break last year, into this year, uh small sample this year, obviously.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: But um, he was always one of those guys that remember when he was up and down a couple years ago, it's like he throws gas, and this is awesome.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: We need guys that throw hard, but then he was up and down, up and down, up and down.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: He's missing a lot.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: Um I I like the the trajectory, and I'm with you too.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: That it's a really soft, like, oh, is this an issue?
24:00
SPEAKER_01: No, we both I think we both agree no it's not an issue.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: We should be happy with him.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, love the bullpen.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: Last thing I have on pitching staff, and I should have brought this up earlier.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh Shodi Imanaga, I think looks pretty good.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: So I agree.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: And and correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like he's been good to start the season a lot since he's been a cub.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: He's had good, good Aprils, good Mays.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you worry about when the weather warms up a little bit, that that fastball that's not too not too heavy, it's it's a little too high and it gets taken out of the yard.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I agree.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh he he looked good this weekend.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm happy with where he's at.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: And we need him now, man.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: Thank God he opted in.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: I know all these things that were luxuries.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, how good can Matt Boy would be?
24:42
SPEAKER_00: Now it's like we need you to be as good as possible.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, like where is Shodi?
24:46
SPEAKER_00: Like, we need you back to All-Star instead of Shoda.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: And I guess maybe the team's not that urgent.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: Maybe the urgency is more in the fan base, just because, you know, we live, dude, we l especially guys like you and me, yeah, living in breathing 162.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I don't think inside the clubhouse it's like that.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: I think they're much more patient, relaxed.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, guys like Colin Ray are walking around with their dick hanging out at the club.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: Like people just feel good.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: I think those guys feel fine.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Dan's Dan's not worried.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: He he's in the he's in the locker room, we're smiling, he's having a good time, he's going home to his family.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I it's it is you and me, though.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: People who watch 162, uh even when the line air in the final four, I'm still got one eye in the cubs, or probably both eyes on the cubs.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: So um it's a it's a grind, but we're ready for it.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: We're ready for it.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna prop the phone up for the final four game.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: I was maybe this is like the only time I've been truly, truly happy that a game was postponed.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm gonna have to be looking at this box score, watching this Yukon game.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: This is gonna absolutely destroy me mentally, you know.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: Great setup, though.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: Great, great season.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: A little peek behind the curtain.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: They had a ball game on at Joe's on weed, and one team was watching it.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't the Cubs there were, but it's somebody was there watching the ball game.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: The Red Sox were on.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: I'll set the stage.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: We're in the back room at Joe's on weed, which is a large bar in Chicago that hosts country music concerts, and one of the two owners is an Illinois guy in an Illinois booster, and they had they were throwing a big Illinois party, obviously, watch party.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: And so in the back room at Joe's, I mean, there's not exaggerating, there's 75 TVs, all 80-inch plasmas, you know, whatever the technology, like big, big TVs.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: And you're right, one of them.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: We were trying to get all the games on Illinois, and they're like, somebody's watching this game.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: It was Red Sox Padres.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: Insane.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: If you're a maniac and you're like listening to this and you're the guy who had the Joe Z, you kept the Red Sox game on.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: I want to meet you, I want to buy a cold one, I want to be your friend.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: That's just a hell of a move.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: I love that guy.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: I love that guy.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: You know, there were people being like, Why is this game on?
26:57
SPEAKER_01: And some guys stand there, he's like, I had the under.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: He's sweating up with the bullpen.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: I would be surprised if Tommy Ed had it then.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: And that's why the fucking game was on, because he's one of those two.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: Love those guys.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: If you're familiar with Joe Zan Weed, obviously support it.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: If you're listening to the show and you don't know Joes on Weed, that's truly an anomaly to me.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: I that would that's that would be insane to me.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh, do you have any other takes in around the pigeon staff?
27:23
SPEAKER_00: Do you want to move over to catcher?
27:24
SPEAKER_00: It's probably like my favorite take on this team is a baller strike about the catching position.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: I I think we're ready to move on to catcher.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, I I've got I've got some thoughts on them as well.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: So go ahead.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: No, give me your ball.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: This is you said to me at the bar, you were like, I got a fucking baller, I got a baller strike for you, Val.
27:41
SPEAKER_01: I didn't phrase it right the right first time because you kind of rolled your eyes at me when I first said it.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: But baller strike, come Memorial Day, Miguel Omayas is catching two out of every three games.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: Strike.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: It's his team.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: It's his we're bad.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: The sooner we let him be a leader, the better off we're all gonna be.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: He he's had such an interesting career because you know it was the big prospect.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: Kind of forgotten about after a couple years of being down in the miners, got hurt, had Tommy John as a catcher.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: Last year, obviously, when he got hurt, I believe it was his ankle towards the end of the year.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember exactly.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: I remember being crushed, he was hurt, but um I like Kelly a lot.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: Great year last year.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: There's something different when Miguel May is up at the plate in my mind that just kind of gives a little bit of fear to the opposing team, and I'm more confident watching him play.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: I think he's ready.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: This is his year that he should be able to take off.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: He can handle a pitching staff.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, and he's been doing a great job with it thus far.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: So that that's my take.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: Kelly's great.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: I love him.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: Maybe you could DH here there, but uh this should be Amaya should be behind the dish.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: And here's my old school baseball guy take on is we need some more Latin players in the fucking lineup, pal.
28:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, no.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: I agree.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not I'm being we need more, and here's what it like point at Moisis by Asteros right now, whatever.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: Slow start to the season, swag, confidence, inspires it from the lineup, or however, brings it every single day, every single day.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: A Maya will have the presence on the field.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: It's the way Wilson Gontreus played, and I'm not pointing this out as a meatball thing.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh, it is a reality that that is how Miguel Amaya plays.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: He captures the stereotype of a fucking Latin guy who's gonna go out and bust his ass 162, wants to get paid, wants to be a leader, all that shit.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: He checks all those boxes.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: The question is like whether or not he's healthy.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: Now, some freak accidents, bad obliques, the ankle injury when he came back from the oblique.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think Tommy John as a catcher is super weird.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for pointing that out.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: That's just crazy to me, you know.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: But they are throwing for every pitch he's catching, he's throwing the ball back to the mound, my friends.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh tone it down back there.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: Not shouldn't have too much tension on that arm.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: But nevertheless, I think it's a great talking point because I think Carson Kelly was awesome last year, and we're lucky to have him.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: I think he mashes left-handed pitching, but we're better off with Biasteros as the guy.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's gonna happen, though.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: Not with this lineup, not with this team, not with this player.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: Like as long as Danzby Swanson and Nico Warner are up the middle, like I'm and Craig Council's running this team, it's Carson Kelly's our starting catcher.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: So I don't I think it's a ball because uh of Craig Council, but I think it should be a strike.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree with you.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: I agree with you.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: Maybe there's an element of locker room leadership that Kelly brings that I don't think he really would need to, but you know, catchers always naturally have to be some sort of a leader.
30:27
SPEAKER_01: Um you said it.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: Horner and Swanson kind of, I think they run that locker.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: Um I'd like to see more of Miguel Amaya.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: I think I think he just I think that he the Cubs could be a better team when Amaya is is hitting on all cylinders, and I think it's his time.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, Kelly's not here dogging Kelly, he's a good player.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: It's like I'm not this isn't you know Todd Hunley, you know, back in the day when they signed him for a bunch of money and he couldn't hit and they were just throwing him out there.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: Kelly can do the job.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm just excited about Amaya.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: If they're gonna DH Amaya and have Carson Kelly hit fourth against Lefty, he's doing that because there's no Saya right now.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: When Saya comes back, that'll change things.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: So then we're I'm sincerely behind this catcher conversation as one of like the unique debate points for this team, yeah, because everything else is pretty simple, yeah.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: You know, I guess we can argue about Pete as a player, but as far as playing time or lineup construction, should Amaya be catching instead of Carson Kelly if they're both healthy and say is back and we're against a lefty and say is gonna hit cleanup.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Can Amaya overcome Kelly and how well does he have to play to overcome Carson Kelly if Carson Kelly's not as good as he was last year against lefties?
31:45
SPEAKER_00: That's a great thing to be paying attention to for Cubs fans.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: It's an exciting thing because if it could only mean Kelly's not gonna drop off big, he's not gonna have a bad year.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: He might drop off a little bit from production last year, but if Miguel Amaya can take this starting job and credit counsel has to put under the line because of the way he's hitting, this team's winning the division.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: Do you have any like reservation about a Maya, I guess, moving forward as injuries?
32:18
SPEAKER_00: So, like, my let me be let me ask this better.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: What how do you view Amaya knowing that he has a weird collection of injury history and then like a serious one with the oblique stuff?
32:28
SPEAKER_00: Does that bother you?
32:29
SPEAKER_00: He's had a lot of injuries.
32:30
SPEAKER_01: I think JD brought up yesterday in the telecast where he's like, I don't I think the most games he's played is like 117, which I mean he's a catcher, but um it worries me that there's it seems like you know, we freak injury, the oblique, the ankle, running the first base.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: There's a pattern of injuries, and that does worry me a little bit.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: Um but I think you know, if we can overcome, I think this is he needs he wants to get paid too.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: Who did we talk about earlier?
32:56
SPEAKER_01: He wants to get paid, Justin Seal.
32:58
SPEAKER_01: This is Amaya's kind of chance to like to get into that level to be a number one catcher.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, I like the way that him and Kelly kind of I like how Craig handles the catching situation right now.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: I just want Amaya to be catching war games because I think that means it's really, really good for Chicago Cubs.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: I agree wholeheartedly.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: I loved talking to you about uh talking with you about this Saturday night.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad we got to have this conversation on the podcast as we talk Saturday night.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, and I think it was while we were having this conversation, I was like, fuck it, come on the show Monday.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: If my I don't think I think Tim's out of town.
33:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: May not be a big deal to a lot of people listening to this right now, but just sink your teeth into the catching position.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, have you do you like spaller strike?
33:42
SPEAKER_00: Do you like Michael Bush leading off against right-handed pitching?
33:45
SPEAKER_00: Baller strike, you like it.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: I don't.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: I I I I don't know why I think Nico Horner could be an everyday leadoff hitter.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: He puts the ball in play.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: I know he doesn't walk a lot, but he puts the ball in play.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't strike out.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: I think Michael Bush has power, and I get like it's different now.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: Like you can get power, it's good to have power at the lead-up position, but hitting him two, and we'll see how Bregman plays, and we'll see how you know the rest of the lineup shakes out when Saya comes back.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: But I I I like Bush down a little bit in the order.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: I just like starting off with Nico.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: He puts in good professional at bats.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what's the upside of Bush leading off?
34:22
SPEAKER_00: Is the OBP he has against righties that much better than Nico Horner?
34:28
SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: I it's so weird that Nico hits fifth and Bush leads off.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: But maybe that's just modern baseball to say Bush should get the most at bats against right-hand pitching.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: I can't figure it out, man.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: Carl, there's a maniac right now that is listening to me talk, doesn't know who I am.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, this guy's an idiot.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't know anything about the analytics, doesn't know about the OBPs.
34:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm going off field right now.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: I did not look at you.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: Um I love the way Nico Warner hits, and everyone should love and appreciate the way Nico Warner hits.
34:57
SPEAKER_01: I don't care what anything says, he's a baseball player in every sense, and I'd like to see him lead off.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: Now, if I get shit on for that take, that's fine.
35:06
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's fine.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: I think most I think most people are aligned with you, and I think 35 minutes into the show and this conversation with you.
35:13
SPEAKER_00: You know, if someone's listening to this and has doubts about your baseball acumen or how closely you follow the Cubs or anything, just because you don't have Nico's, you know, weighted, wait, run created plus against ready's off the top of your head.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: That's crazy to me.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, I've thoroughly enjoyed this discussion.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to make our way to the outfield.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh, as it as it stands with the lineup, I think maybe I'm overestimating.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: I'd be interested to know truly from an analytics and then from a professional standpoint, you know, in the modern game, because I you could get this answer from a thousand players on Twitter, but in the modern game, how much does it matter that a the same guy leads off every day?
35:48
SPEAKER_00: And how much does it matter if you're gonna have Nico lead off then hit fifth, and you're gonna have Bush hit fifth against lefties?
35:54
SPEAKER_00: How much does any of this shit really matter?
35:57
SPEAKER_00: I would assume having the same guy lead off like helps.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: I would just call me crazy and old-fashioned, but I just cannot get over the idea that the same guy every day that that consistency doesn't add up in the end of the day.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: And we've talked a lot about clubhouse culture, and I think that kind of adds to it.
36:16
SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'm the leadoff hitter.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: I think that makes sense for me as well.
36:20
SPEAKER_01: Um bats a leadoff spot.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: I don't care if you're hitting six home runs a year, it's important to start a game.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: You know, you want to see multiple pitches, you want to see a guy who's gonna put the bat on the ball.
36:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, not to say Michael, my I love Michael Bush, by the way.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, this is making it sound like I'm I'm standing for Nico.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: It's nothing against Michael Bush.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: I think he could be really well suited in that five spot.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think we'd have a lot of production that way.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, it especially when Saya comes back.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: Because either say it hits four, you know, and then Pete Crow Armstrong hits down towards the end of the lineup, yeah, or say it hits three and Ian Happ hits four, or you move Bush up to four.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: But Bush is only gonna benefit one say it comes back.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: And I would love to see those two be paired in the lineup together.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't think that's gonna happen with Bush leading off.
37:13
SPEAKER_00: And we could be making something out of nothing.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: Like Bush could turn out to be you know the best leadoff hitter against ready's.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: I don't have those analytics in front of me.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: I just I'm with you, Nico Horner.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: He's running well, he looks great, he hits the ball the right side, he doesn't strike out.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: It's just perfect in those situations where we're still doing this.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: I don't give a fuck if it's 1927 or 2027, whatever.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: Like you still have the concept of turning the lineup over late in games.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: So when it gets I love love having Nico Horner as a leadoff if in a high-leverage situation with two outs, he is probably our best hitter historically.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, he's gonna put the he's gonna put the bat on the ball.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's why I I saw something on Twitter a couple weeks ago, and it was kind of funny.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: They showed one of those amazing Cleveland Indians 1990s lineups with Manny and everyone in there.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: Omar Visco was hitting two, and all the comments were like, How could you hit Omar Vascill two in this lineup?
38:12
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I get it because he probably had six home runs or something.
38:16
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but it's like that was one of the best lineups of all time.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: It's looked back on like with the best lineup in the 90s, and people are still just like, How could you hit him two?
38:24
SPEAKER_01: That's so stupid.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: It's like they didn't win the one.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe they have a good point.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it had to be there.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's different.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: If you were there, you'd understand why Omar Visquell hit two.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: Love that guy.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: Because Robbie Alamar hit three, Kenny Lofton hit one, Jim Tomey four, Manny Ramirez was hitting like six, Sandy Alomar seven.
38:43
SPEAKER_00: Albert Bell was in there too, or maybe he was on the socks at that point.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think you're I think he was gone.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that I mean that's a stack lineup.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: But to your point, like I do like if if if Craig said, hey, Michael or Nico, you're the one hitter every day.
39:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm for that.
39:01
SPEAKER_01: Now they don't really like when Michael Bush hits against lefties very much, which I think he did better than a lot of people thought.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: He was serviceable, he was pretty solid.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, but Nico get hit both, so we don't have to worry about that mixed match ready lefty.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: We had Nico hit him first.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: And I think the catching debate is a way bigger debate than like where Michael Bush and just for reference point.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: Like, I know we just got done talking.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm not trying to go back down this catch a rabbit hole.
39:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: But just for context of where I put these two storylines of like where who what's our who's our leadoff hitter?
39:34
SPEAKER_00: I mean, who's getting the bulk of the catching duty is significantly more important to me.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: Than where these guys are hitting in the lineup.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: We're in the middle of the lineup, so let's stay in the middle of the lineup.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: Baller strike, you're okay if if Ian Hap leads the National League in strikeouts like he currently does.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: If it also means he leads the National League in home runs as he currently does, baller strike.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: That's a strike.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, if he's leading the league in home runs, you can't pass that up.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, he is striking out too much for my liking.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I mean, if he's gonna keep up a home run pace with towards the top of the National League, you kind of gotta you kind of gotta live and die with that.
40:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't see him being top five, top ten at home runs the NL at the end of the year.
40:13
SPEAKER_01: I don't see that.
40:14
SPEAKER_01: No, not even close.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: Shot.
40:16
SPEAKER_01: No shot.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: That this this could be another you know moot point here.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, he strikes out too much.
40:22
SPEAKER_01: He does.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: It's early, but he's been striking out too much.
40:26
SPEAKER_01: And I love Ian Happ, but it's something something's got to change there.
40:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's tough.
40:31
SPEAKER_00: He hits from both sides of the plate.
40:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's why he strikes out so much because he has two different swings.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: That's a fact.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: Like, he just he knows the strike zone well.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: It's just he has swing and miss, he's geared for power.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: I'll take this trade-off a thousand out of a thousand times, won't ever ask twice about it.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: He does give you a gold glove in you know left field.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: So you the question here though is like Ian Hap is not a big league three hit three-hitter at all.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: No, at all.
40:57
SPEAKER_00: No, he needs to be hitting fifth or sixth in this lineup.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: So it just comes back to say being healthy.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: Say it can hit third.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: Say it's a three-hitter.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: Do you what do you where does Craig Pencil and Ian when see it comes back?
41:09
SPEAKER_01: Is it gonna be six?
41:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't hap's kind of been all up and down all over the lineup.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, and they'll they'll find their groove in in the summer when it starts getting warmer and everything kind of starts coming back to level.
41:21
SPEAKER_01: But I'd like to see Bregman Bregman two say a three, and you know, PCA four, maybe if he's or maybe lower, but Bregman two say a three is basically what I and and Horner One is what I want to see locked in.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: See, but I think this here's the one time I'll push back on lineup construction shit.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: I don't think you can go three in the same three in a row, three ready's in a row.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:42
SPEAKER_00: So then I come back and I go, can Bush hit second?
41:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't want Bush hitting second against lefties.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: So then I guess if you are against, but then here's a stupid point.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: You can go three in a row against a lefty.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: You'll see it all the time.
41:54
SPEAKER_00: We'll go fucking eight in a row against a lefty.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: So why is that different against it ready?
41:58
SPEAKER_00: Why did I just make that point?
41:59
SPEAKER_00: Why did I just push back like that?
42:00
SPEAKER_00: Why can't we go ready, ready, ready?
42:02
SPEAKER_01: I think a lot changed though.
42:03
SPEAKER_01: Remember, you know, with the new bullpen rule where they have to face three hitters when it was when it was a guy when you know 15 years ago when we were watching playoff baseball, they'd have three relievers coming to face three to the guys in the seventh inning.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: Um that was where it mattered more.
42:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, these guys need to if you're a two-hitter for the Chicago Cubs and Alex Bregman is and he's worth every penny they're paying him, it shouldn't matter if you have a righty or lefty up, or someone could throw from both sides of the both sides, you know, right and lefty.
42:31
SPEAKER_01: He's your two-hitter, you're paying him to be a two-hitter.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: Let's produce.
42:34
SPEAKER_01: And he will.
42:36
SPEAKER_00: Are you locked in, ball or strike?
42:38
SPEAKER_00: Alex Bregman should be the two-hitter duration of the season, regardless of who's pitching.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: We pull out the lineup card, Bregman two, no questions asked.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: That's a strike.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: And if and if he can't be the two-hitter, I think that there's he's not playing well.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: If he's in the lineup, he has to hit two.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:57
SPEAKER_00: My problem is that if he's gonna carry an OPS like at 780, I I think you're giving him the two spot out of respect out of him wearing the Letterman jacket, having 175 million dollar contract.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: Like we prom but did we promise him in offseason talks that like you will hit two?
43:11
SPEAKER_00: He's one of those guys who wants to hit two, wants to hit two, wants to wear number three.
43:15
SPEAKER_01: Oh, you wore him, ever, because he he's the second overall pick.
43:18
SPEAKER_01: You know that story, right?
43:19
SPEAKER_01: That's why I wore two.
43:22
SPEAKER_00: Do you know that out of high school they were gonna draft him in the supplemental round?
43:27
SPEAKER_00: And he was furious.
43:29
SPEAKER_00: His dad, him and his dad were sitting at the fucking kitchen table.
43:33
SPEAKER_00: Part of my language, Lizard King.
43:36
SPEAKER_00: And uh telling it with the agent, tell telling teams that called him, you could have taken me in the first round.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm going LSU.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I told you guys, don't take if you're gonna take me, take me in the first round.
43:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm only gonna get drafted if I get drafted in the first round.
43:49
SPEAKER_00: They're sitting there going, we're taking a first supplemental 36 overall, pound sand.
43:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to LSU.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: First team all American as a freshman.
43:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, talk about a chip on your shoulder.
43:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, now it's like Good point.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: It's not arrogance as much as it's I don't want to enter the your system not being a first rounder, and I know I'm good enough to be a first rounder.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: And there's a big difference between entering the system as a first rounder, entering someone's system as a second rounder or supplemental pick.
44:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:14
SPEAKER_00: The first rounder gets all the treatment gets the best treatment.
44:17
SPEAKER_00: You get the most money, the best treatment, the best attention, etc.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: So that's Bregnant's character.
44:23
SPEAKER_00: Now the question is at 30, whatever years old, he has number two hitting duties, regardless, right?
44:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:30
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
44:31
SPEAKER_01: He should be.
44:32
SPEAKER_01: If he's not, one of two things happen.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: Either he's not producing, which is not great for this team, or someone is so much better this year that came out of nowhere that needs to hit two.
44:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:44
SPEAKER_00: I don't see either likelihood at.
44:46
SPEAKER_00: I think he's just gonna be an average, he's gonna grade out to be a slightly below average MLB two hitter this year.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: Like when you pull up every two-hitter and you char him out at the end of the year, Bregman, even though he's a good player, yeah, I think Bregman will be in the bottom 15 of MLB two hitters.
45:04
SPEAKER_01: We'll be hearing his name a lot.
45:06
SPEAKER_01: Shout out Thirsty Vacero on those lineup previews, and it'll be the second one.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: We won't even have to memorize it.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: Easy way to go.
45:14
SPEAKER_00: And speaking of, I do a lot of these lineup previews.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if you see these things on Twitter, obviously, I'll tell you, I feel the consistency from Craig Council early in the season.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: There's been times I've done lineup previews with Craig.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what the hell is this about?
45:28
SPEAKER_00: These were born out of the fact that Joe Madden was always changing the lineup like insanely.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: So Craig historically, in the first two seasons under Cubs leadership, uh took a while to figure him out.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: He settled in mid of last year.
45:45
SPEAKER_00: Early this year, I can tell you, feels like we're settling in, and he wants to have the lineup predictability.
45:49
SPEAKER_00: I feel like this clubhouse wants it too.
45:51
SPEAKER_00: I think Dansby Swanson's walking around going, Coach, yeah, hey, Craig, need to talk to you.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: Need to get the boys.
45:57
SPEAKER_00: Speaking of Dansby, I the problem with Saya's injury is it forces Swanee into the top six.
46:02
SPEAKER_00: I need a lineup where Swanee plays short and hits seventh, no questions asked.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: I need the same way we're gonna anchor it around Bregman hitting two.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: Can we anchor it with Swanie at seven?
46:12
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to see anything other than that.
46:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree with you.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: That's a great spot for him.
46:16
SPEAKER_01: You don't need you don't need you don't want to have to need Swanson to be your sixth hitter right now.
46:21
SPEAKER_01: No.
46:22
SPEAKER_01: Um I love this.
46:25
SPEAKER_01: He's such a pro.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: I love where he's he and he's happy hitting seventh, I think.
46:29
SPEAKER_01: I don't think he cares.
46:30
SPEAKER_01: He wants to go and he wants to play shortstop and hit, and then like he's a family man, wants to go do his job, go home with his family.
46:36
SPEAKER_00: I've always loved him.
46:38
SPEAKER_00: I lost a little respect for him because the Cubs did this like around town trivia thing I saw on social media, and it was like, How well do you know Chicago?
46:46
SPEAKER_00: And he didn't even know what Jewel was.
46:48
SPEAKER_00: I think I remember he didn't know anything about Chicago.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, bitch.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: Like, and his wife plays here or played here.
46:56
SPEAKER_01: You gotta know a little bit more, man.
46:57
SPEAKER_01: You gotta know a little more.
46:58
SPEAKER_00: You gotta know Jewel.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: But this is a guy who's getting 27 million to live in Chicago.
47:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, where does he actually live?
47:04
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
47:05
SPEAKER_00: Probably has a chef, personal security, you know, probably has multiple assistants, opairs, you name it, guest house.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: He he doesn't know what a carton of milk costs.
47:16
SPEAKER_01: He's not going to to Jewel.
47:18
SPEAKER_01: He's an Ashland and Wellington at Jewel, like, oh, should I get the whole milk?
47:22
SPEAKER_01: Should I get the organic?
47:23
SPEAKER_01: No, he doesn't do that.
47:25
SPEAKER_00: I've enjoyed having you on.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for doing it.
47:27
SPEAKER_00: Do we can we do like another five?
47:28
SPEAKER_00: Do you have five, ten minutes?
47:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, five, ten minutes, absolutely.
47:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I have a baller strike for you.
47:33
SPEAKER_00: Michael Conforto is not a is is a big Michael Conforto is a big leaguer.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: Ball.
47:41
SPEAKER_01: But it's I mean he is.
47:43
SPEAKER_01: I can't take that away from me.
47:44
SPEAKER_01: He's on a big league roster.
47:46
SPEAKER_01: Um did the play yesterday.
47:49
SPEAKER_01: Was it yesterday one over?
47:50
SPEAKER_01: He took like four steps in.
47:52
SPEAKER_01: I used to coach feeder baseball going to high school in the north suburbs of Chicago, and I would bench a player doing that.
47:58
SPEAKER_01: Now you're not gonna bench a big leaguer, I get that, but like, what is wrong with him?
48:03
SPEAKER_01: What are we doing in right field?
48:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, what do we do when say it comes back and we need a another right fielder?
48:08
SPEAKER_01: He should not be on this roster in two weeks the way he's playing right now.
48:11
SPEAKER_00: No, and Kevin Alcatara looks great in triple A.
48:14
SPEAKER_00: Mike Linforda's best days are so far behind him, 10 years behind him.
48:19
SPEAKER_00: His best days, 10 years behind him, and the injury he sustained during COVID.
48:24
SPEAKER_00: If you're familiar with his career and the backstory on this contract situation, Scott Boris essentially coached this guy out of a hundred million dollars because he got offered an extension for the Mets, turned the town, went to free agency, didn't sign with anybody, then it goes into COVID, and then it was revealed during free agency.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: I guess he had a bad shoulder, he was surfboarding or wakeboarding, or he like fucked his shoulder up doing some offseason activity, you know, zip lining in Costa Rica.
48:47
SPEAKER_00: Whatever it brings us to this point.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: He shouldn't be on a roster.
48:50
SPEAKER_00: He looks tracked, can't hit a fastball, can't catch a fly ball, shouldn't be on his team.
48:54
SPEAKER_01: No, I I don't want to see him another thing, righty, lefty, whatever.
48:58
SPEAKER_01: Let's see him at Shaw on right field.
48:59
SPEAKER_01: Let's see if he could play there because you could we need to know if he's a right fielder um early.
49:05
SPEAKER_01: Um because if there's another injury in the outfield, I don't know what they're gonna do.
49:08
SPEAKER_01: And and tell me, what do you think?
49:10
SPEAKER_01: Um what are the early returns on Shaw, in your opinion, playing right field?
49:14
SPEAKER_00: By the average, fine.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: Looks like he'll be great in July.
49:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's his first time ever doing it.
49:20
SPEAKER_00: Like he looked shaky at third base to start the season last year.
49:24
SPEAKER_00: He made some nice plays, but generally speaking, he looked nervous.
49:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think he'll settle in.
49:29
SPEAKER_00: He's a gamer.
49:30
SPEAKER_00: I love that guy.
49:31
SPEAKER_00: I fucking love the way he plays.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: I think he's I think his mental side is lock is rock solid lockdown.
49:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's he's the guy just going back and he's looking at the iPad after every every at bat, every every play in right field.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: Um I I would love if he could become a plus right fielder.
49:51
SPEAKER_01: I love what he's what he does, what he did at third, how he became a really reliable and good third baseman last year.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, he's got the he's an athlete, but I think we just kind of forget about after they sign Bregman, it's like you don't have to worry about depending on Matt Shaw, but they they do need to depend on Matt Shaw this year.
50:08
SPEAKER_01: That's that's the thing.
50:09
SPEAKER_01: They need him, they need another guy that could play multiple positions.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: And um we'll see what happens when Saya comes back, how it all fits.
50:16
SPEAKER_01: I know he'll probably be playing right because you think Saya will DH a bunch still, what what happens with with Mo Baller then?
50:21
SPEAKER_00: I think he DH's some because Mo Baller hasn't been good enough to even make the argument.
50:25
SPEAKER_00: So I think Saya will play right field on a limited basis, maybe against lefties.
50:35
SPEAKER_00: Maybe he'll be the full-time DH.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe maybe Shaw's that, and maybe our lack of outfield depth comes back to bite us.
50:45
SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't know.
50:47
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what we're gonna do.
50:48
SPEAKER_01: Let's go ball or strike.
50:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm getting, you know, I'm I'm working and learning now.
50:52
SPEAKER_01: Take your time.
50:52
SPEAKER_01: Ball or strike, right field is actually a big question mark that we need to be extremely worried about.
50:59
SPEAKER_00: Strike.
51:00
SPEAKER_01: That's a big strike.
51:01
SPEAKER_01: We didn't talk about we were talking about something else earlier being like, well, this might be the biggest headache.
51:05
SPEAKER_01: Is Plenty of second pitch good enough?
51:07
SPEAKER_01: But I the whole time to sit there thing, like I don't have a lot of confidence in right field right now.
51:12
SPEAKER_00: There are few storylines around this team with the bowpen.
51:18
SPEAKER_00: I actually don't think there's much other than how good Plenty can be.
51:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think an underrated storyline is who plays catcher.
51:24
SPEAKER_00: I think where Michael Bush's against lefties kind of impacts the rest of the lineup is something to be paying attention to.
51:30
SPEAKER_00: You know, right field has been a huge issue that we've we've talked about a lot on this show, um, and have really geared it up since Saya's injury in the world baseball classic.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: The discourse originally was how many home runs can say hit?
51:44
SPEAKER_00: Is say it good enough to play right field every day?
51:47
SPEAKER_00: He's not even available, and it's wreaking havoc, I think, on the middle of our order.
51:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:55
SPEAKER_00: So what do you what are you doing with say when he comes back?
51:58
SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of it's gonna depend on, like you said, is Mo Baller hitting.
52:02
SPEAKER_01: If he's not, he's gotta go back down.
52:03
SPEAKER_01: He's you don't you can't have two DHs on the roster.
52:07
SPEAKER_01: Ideal world, Mo Baller's playing well, say could slide in a DH.
52:13
SPEAKER_01: Matt Shaw continues to progress in right field, and that's kind of like we have two positions in the lineup for Seiya, who's gonna play almost every day.
52:21
SPEAKER_01: Mo Baller and Matt Shaw, and and work that way, then you don't have to worry about saying Michael Conforto anymore because he's gone.
52:28
SPEAKER_01: Um that hate him where I that's where I see it kind of progress.
52:32
SPEAKER_01: That's that's the hope.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: And if Mo Ballers only get if he's only playing twice a week, do you put him in triple A?
52:37
SPEAKER_01: Or do you or or has he earned that has he earned that spot?
52:41
SPEAKER_00: He's too good for triple A.
52:42
SPEAKER_00: And I've blown him so hard on this show.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: I love him more.
52:46
SPEAKER_00: But like he he's gonna hit 360 in triple A, especially after having a cup of coffee in the big leagues.
52:51
SPEAKER_00: You have to keep him in the big leagues.
52:53
SPEAKER_00: Either it's pinch hitter, DH, get him 300 at bats figured out.
52:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if he can't be the DH, I mean he'll he'll be good enough, I think.
53:01
SPEAKER_00: But more importantly, if we're talking about Seya, he's a fucking three hitter.
53:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all right, between Shaw and who hits here and DH is there, and what about Moises?
53:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, we're talking about the three-hitter.
53:12
SPEAKER_00: I want him getting as many at bats as possible, this maximizing Saya's plate appearance because he's one of if not our best right-handed hitter.
53:22
SPEAKER_01: So I drove myself crazy when I just said there's two spots for these three guys because Seya's got one of those spots every day.
53:28
SPEAKER_01: I I that came out wrong.
53:30
SPEAKER_00: No, but injury concerns, dude.
53:32
SPEAKER_00: You have to keep him fresh.
53:33
SPEAKER_00: So that's why you're gonna have you're gonna be doing this dog and pony show.
53:37
SPEAKER_00: He can't play six days a week, you just can't.
53:39
SPEAKER_00: His obliques can't handle it.
53:41
SPEAKER_00: I don't give a shit how good he looks.
53:43
SPEAKER_00: When he comes back, I want him getting serious rest.
53:48
SPEAKER_01: I love Saya.
53:49
SPEAKER_01: I and no one was more down on Seya than I was in the world when he dropped that ball in September a few years back.
53:56
SPEAKER_01: I was like, get this guy off the team.
53:58
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm a pretty for the maniacs that don't know me, I'm a pretty even keel guy.
54:01
SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't fight with people, I don't argue much.
54:04
SPEAKER_01: The Cubs bring out a weird little meatball out of me that like I I can't handle it.
54:08
SPEAKER_01: I need to be a little bit more positive.
54:09
SPEAKER_01: And these are all minor problems.
54:12
SPEAKER_01: This roster's good.
54:13
SPEAKER_01: A little bit of a slow start.
54:14
SPEAKER_01: We've been playing outside.
54:15
SPEAKER_01: I hate using that excuse because the other team plays outside too.
54:18
SPEAKER_01: We're in a dome this week.
54:20
SPEAKER_01: Let's see the bats.
54:21
SPEAKER_01: Let's let we use that term flat.
54:23
SPEAKER_01: Let's not be flat.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: It's a great point.
54:26
SPEAKER_00: So it's opportunity to bounce back, and it's a better team than they're a better roster than they've played.
54:31
SPEAKER_00: When the issue is they look a little flat, that's fine by me.
54:34
SPEAKER_00: It's an older roster, you know, some world baseball classic hangover, turnover team wasn't together entirely in springtime.
54:42
SPEAKER_00: Whatever, however you want, make all the excuses you want.
54:44
SPEAKER_00: But like now, you know, yeah, okay, we're nine games in.
54:48
SPEAKER_00: Let's turn it, let's see a little spark.
54:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, we intentionally didn't even really talk about Peter Armstrong in all this episode.
54:53
SPEAKER_00: That's because he's fine.
54:54
SPEAKER_00: He's good, he's a good player, we're fine.
54:56
SPEAKER_00: We'll do the whole fucking thing on him this Friday, all right?
54:59
SPEAKER_00: So if you're mad we didn't talk about Peter Armstrong, I much wanted to spend my hour with CB getting into some more of the nuanced stuff.
55:05
SPEAKER_00: There's really not any nuance around PCA.
55:07
SPEAKER_00: He's our all-star center fielder, he's amazing, and when his switch gets turned on this season, you'll know it because you'll see it too.
55:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
55:17
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, I'm not really worried about that many people in the roster right now.
55:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm worried as a collective whole how they started, but I'm this division's not gonna be as easy as I thought.
55:27
SPEAKER_01: That's what I've learned and taught myself this since the show started.
55:31
SPEAKER_00: But ball or strike, the Cubs will win the division.
55:36
SPEAKER_01: Strike.
55:37
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's where I want to leave the show.
55:39
SPEAKER_00: So thanks for joining us, CB.
55:41
SPEAKER_00: This is a lot of fun.
55:42
SPEAKER_01: Carl, love talking to you.
55:43
SPEAKER_01: Love the meeting, love the show.
55:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm a listener, so um, I'm excited.
55:47
SPEAKER_01: And you know, we have these conversations off camera a lot.
55:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, and I just bring it on here.
55:52
SPEAKER_01: Happy to phone for Mahoney.
55:53
SPEAKER_01: Love that guy too.
55:54
SPEAKER_01: So um I'm always here if you need me.
55:56
SPEAKER_00: Well, we play a lot of golf together.
55:58
SPEAKER_00: I should have said that in the intro.
55:59
SPEAKER_00: We do so.
55:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can I can pencil in at least every two weeks.
56:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have a six-hour conversation with you about the Chicago Cubs.
56:08
SPEAKER_00: So um, maybe we'll get our friend Joe to join us next time.
56:11
SPEAKER_00: We'll do a three-man weaver, Will Mahoney, or something.
56:14
SPEAKER_00: In the meantime, though, I just want to re-encourage our listeners to check out Thursday Bacaro, Mexican-style soda with the signature spicy finish.
56:20
SPEAKER_00: And if you guys get a chance and enjoy these shows, please leave a five-star review on either of the platform you enjoy it, Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
56:28
SPEAKER_00: It helps the sponsors, it helps grow the show.
56:30
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it, and it helps my self-esteem.
56:32
SPEAKER_00: I hope see, I enjoy seeing these reviews come in.
56:35
SPEAKER_00: So, by all means, and again, most importantly, thank you, CB, for filling in for Mahoney.
56:41
SPEAKER_00: This is a lovely conversation.
56:42
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
56:43
SPEAKER_01: Love being here, and um, I'll keep listening and keep getting those vaqueros.
56:48
SPEAKER_00: Appreciate you, buddy.
56:49
SPEAKER_00: Until next time, guys, go Cubs, we'll see you Friday.