Latest / After Maghrib 🌙 / Identity & The Muslim Community (Ft. Nouri Sardar)

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Identity & The Muslim Community (Ft. Nouri Sardar) · After Maghrib 🌙

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Salaam alaikum, everyone. Welcome back to the after
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marketing podcast. Hope you had a fantastic week
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wanted to talk to you this week about something a bit.
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Interesting, we were scrolling through Tick-Tock recently and
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we saw a caption which said Arabs invented Islam.
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If you're not Arab, don't call yourself a Muslim.
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That is something which blew our minds.
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We don't know really where to begin but I think I should start
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by asking and Arabs say that Ali start y direction.
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I'm excited. But I'm very glad because we
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have a dear friend in town the poet.
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Shouted for zany. Nor'easter does not mind.
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They come, here we come. Hey there, bro.
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Oh, good. It's going great to be here.
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Yeah, it's good to have you back side.
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It's good to be in your presence, your presence.
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Episodes. Every single one is that legit
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know, as an ICU on YouTube apis? Like in those carry on?
1:06
That's good. I see some episodes.
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Much fun conversations. How's life in the u.s.?
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It's nice. Yeah, it's interesting ups and
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downs. Having sit down.
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Read my gas. No, I haven't addressed by one.
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Make America great. Yeah.
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Busy Trump hats. Mmm.
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We don't smile. Think it's It sounds really
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strange to say, but I don't think it's as racist as people.
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Kind of think is on drugs. When I'm there, everyone asked
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me all your from London. Oh, you guys have loved
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stabbings, don't you? Yes, all you Staples corner you
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guys. No, it's just because, like, I
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think the news really like over, blows a lot, of course, of
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what's Happening. Of course, things are bad there
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as though everywhere. But living there and seeing
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people day-to-day, I mean, you do get areas are very racist.
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Yeah, but generally they say I think people are, you know,
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people are folks. Themselves are not liable to
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stuff, you might have some questions about Islam and stuff.
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But generally, I think people are quite nice, may be
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intrigued, because I travel a lot in the states.
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Like, I'm always like praying and airports and stuff.
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Yeah. And the nice thing about You can
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have a conversation. Anyone like I was telling you
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when I came back to Heathrow you did the other conversation with
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someone as I do. You know where you from is like
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Neverland. But oh, what are we doing?
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I live there. Okay, I start speaking to
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myself. Oh yeah, I moved to the US and
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he was ignoring me and you can walk talk and I'll have a safe
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flight. He's like yes by.
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I remember that London. If you don't like to speak in
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America's opposite, America's the opposite, have a
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conversation with that, which I like to have a conversation.
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Every time I go to the US that she hits me, no matter how many
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times I go, you can be anywhere you walk into a shop.
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Hello, sir. How are you have a great day?
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Like, it's hits you hard. It's a nice.
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It's a nice Vibe. He's very polite, and like the
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inquisitive, and it's a place to communicate his.
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I was themselves and you're kind of in your box, I think, if
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you're not an American or if you're born and bred London out,
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it will take you a while to adjust Arnold.
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I'm loving you personally, really.
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So there's ups and downs for sure.
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But like, the thing is, you guys know.
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I used to go there every year anyway for like, you know, for
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traveling stuff. And It's a bigger being a big
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adjustment and in many ways but there's a lot of positives.
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I like, will you come back to the UK?
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Never. Okay.
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No, should I move to the states everyone?
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Okay, right now. So do you consider?
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I think this is probably a good place to start.
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Do you consider yourself American or British British?
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Put a pool? Yeah, British passport.
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It's weird because like I was having this conversation with
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other friends as well. It's like it just feels so weird
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because I was as long as I live in London.
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I was born and raised in London. Everything about me is as long
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as I open my eyes and till age 32.
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And now, I'm living on the other side in a place.
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I've never really spent a lot of time in Cross, the opening faces
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that are different in communities that are different.
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It's interesting, it's nice. It's different like an adventure
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but it's very strange. It's there's actually I need
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from you is not when he says he recommends doing Hydra because
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he goes the old Your anxiety make you stronger stuff like
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them. Just like, you know, look
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exactly. But it's really true.
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You really feel it because such a weight on your mind, like,
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everything I do from beginning, that's why people travel, of
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course. Now the holiday will not just
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have it also like living there like figuring out from them how
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taxes work to figure out your all the healthcare system and
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things like that with my life in that country.
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You got our work from the beginning, you'll build your
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credit again, it's very it's interesting.
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It's fun. But going back to the point, I
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think there is definitely racism.
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There's in places where I've been to like, well, you know,
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trying between cities where you can feel the racism people.
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But generally, you know, people on the ground, I think people
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are just very, very nice, the focus on their own lives and
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their own communities here. I actually feel like the racism
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is more hidden because here people are very tribal there in
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like their own community and stuff.
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You have like the Pakistani community in one side and every
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time you go to an area, it's specific to an ethnicity usually
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in different parts of or people are used to come together based
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on ethnicity but that's enough. People.
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So, everyone's America, you know, obviously they have their
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roots in the they all identify Zimmer.
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Yeah, they're more American than we are pretty sure.
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When you say the racism here is, is more subtle Jimmy within the
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Shell community or just jumps anxiety.
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I mean, short distances, your community.
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But Here, For example, I've realized the UK is very tribal.
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Yeah, here, we will come here. The first thing I do is seek out
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their own, kind, their own races, or country.
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And as a result, you have all these different kinds of tribes
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that are like scrunched together, which is why you have
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all this like, you know, securing is mmm.
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Gang problems, you know, crimes and stuff, and that kind of
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racism, which stands for okay. With this kind of person.
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You are that kind of person, but we're living in the same area.
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So we're going to give a bit of a distance.
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Yeah. But that's like, you have to
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assimilate, you have to become American.
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So you know, that is historically with the country is
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about such a Melting Pot, you know?
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So I feel like, I'm sure there's racism in both countries and
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here we can see, it's getting worse but I think it's much more
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subtle and I would argue much more.
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I don't know what's more dangerous but I've become more
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aware of it as I kind of like growing up and realizing how
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things are with it. Do you feel Arabs own Aslam?
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Definitely not personal? It's not what you think.
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Arabs think they own this love, I miss a blanket statement, of
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course, Monty Hall. You can't like, you know, of
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course what letter would generalize.
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I think it's interesting because you guys, I think you're you're
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kind of in the same boat because your hold your butt, your
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granddad was living in Iraq, right?
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My dad was born in Iraq. Yeah, my dad's side has a rocky
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Heritage and American or rocky so me I'm gorgeous.
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It's weird for me because I grew up in a Sunni Community.
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Yeah, I'm Pakistani. Yeah, but I kind of split into
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your own Community but I'm British I'm living in America.
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It's very strange. Do not even about it to anyone.
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Exactly of those, you know, I'm wrong, Rocky.
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I know, I'm from Detroit to California and one of our
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friends is that living there. And I landed on Thursday and I
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was there for like, a few days. I learned early on Thursday, I
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don't have a cause like, you know, I get See some friends I
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called them. And he was like, braunability.
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I would work. I can't see you today.
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So it's kind of upsetting with my do.
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Like I don't know anyone here. The guy that people from the
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airport from karbala Iraq. Yeah he's okay, let's go out to
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eat and he brought all his friends are also from cover and
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we're sitting down together and I felt so at home, I was like,
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isn't it weird that British Pakistani who lives in?
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Detroit is in California. Feels most at home when he's
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among couple days. I found it.
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It's a very weird thing. It's a very weird thing but for
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sure, like article were like, yeah, but think that thing is
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like for Me, I've realized like I didn't even use very fluid,
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like, I'm polish. I don't consider myself one
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thing, which is why, you know, like in our community, like
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everyone goes back to Nigeria for back-to-back, dodo, back to
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bayrou or your back to Pakistan to revisit the roots for me,
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it's like, well, I was born and raised in the UK.
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That's kind of, like my home. So I don't really feel at home
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when I go east, you know, I don't feel at home, but you feel
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at home in caterpillar to an extent to an extent.
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Because once this year's finished, I know your friends
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are seeing their families and stuff, and you just kind of
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like, you know, younger Yes. Like you okay.
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Now I don't feel at home either. I mean, we live in a society
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now, which is labeling people more than ever before.
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So, no matter how much you try to identify and keep your
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identification identification consistent throughout the course
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of your life. There's more and more and more
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questions about identity and all of that being raised, whether
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it's in terms of your nationality, your gender, your
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orientation, all of these things.
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And I think that will trick will.
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I believe trickle into the Muslim Maybe at some point and
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the thing is the beautiful thing about the Western Muslim
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Community is that we are all children of diaspora, the all
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our parents have shifted from one part of the world to this
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spot so it's already we're bored with it.
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You no matter how kind of highlight you all, how cold you
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are, you are, how Pakistani white and you're living a born
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and bred in the UK, you're still born into an integrated society
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and you've still got like different opinions on things.
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But what's interesting is that here.
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So I think the whole root of this thing is figure out who you
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are and I feel like yeah, people are very uncomfortable through
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the The blanket statement based on what I've seen people
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contracted with. Yeah, and lucky people.
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Yeah, people of people can be very uncomfortable with, who
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they are. And as a result, you have all
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this and more sense. So, again, it's a tribal thing,
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it's like, you know, I'm I'm part of this community or even
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like this opposed to terrorism here, really?
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I believe it stems from Love and you know, uncertainty about who
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you are before you cling to your identity and a result.
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As a result, everyone who's different from you is wrong
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ever, who is different from? You needs to be folk, you know,
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either physically or verbally, right?
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So on America is very different. See, that America is like, we
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are, we have our Roots, where arab-american, or where, Rocky,
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or were Asian American or, you know, pakistani-american where
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we have our Roots, which I'm proud of, but we're American as
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well as much more of acceptance about who you are and where
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you're living. I think that's really important,
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being comfortable, who you are. It really leads to, you know, I
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think a more cohesive and better Society, ultimately save, can I
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ask you a question gone? Okay, so you know this Tick-Tock
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and I'll just repeat if anyone missed earlier We read a tick,
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tock is said, Arabs invented Islam, which is it itself is
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just like a crazy statement. There's no one invented Islam.
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But anyway, Arabs invented Islam, if you're not an Arab,
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you're not, don't call yourself a Muslim.
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Can I ask you? Got ya, as an Arab do you feel
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any sort of superiority or even for example a pride which may
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creep into becoming superiority? Due to the back to where you're
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from the language you speak or anything like that and all
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honesty? No, I'll say no and it's not
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just me. I'm trying to, like, hide
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something, but yeah, I've never ever thought of it from that
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perspective, but I'm going to answer that in a way from how I
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understood it is that when you see an Arab, you automatically
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think that Muslim correct? That's, that's, that's how I
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grow. By the way, surprised to find it
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weird. If I found out there was like a
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Jewish Arab or like a Christian era, but it's impossible and
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sometimes, you know, someone can look so Arab, you can even
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assume his Muslim as name is Mike, Michael like, what's going
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on because we automatically have like this perception that Arabs
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are Muslim automatically but no, I don't think so.
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Inventive is your okay? So let's get more specific or
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credible? I Iraqi Shia.
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Yes. Yeah.
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Do you feel a sense of ownership when you seen on araki's or
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anyone of any background doing 0 than 1%?
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Of course, as example? No, no, no, okay.
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Just like how you go to bed care for higher education.
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Tamra the whole world. No matter where you are.
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All seven continents, same thing with karbala you don't feel
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like, you know, it's interesting.
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So I really good like example, of kind of trying to portray
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with the point I make is African-American.
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Muslims. Yeah.
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So I've been interacting with a lot in American.
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I realized like they are the whole thing is, like, like we've
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been here for, like, hundreds of years in America.
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So, we are really the only native Muslim Americans in the
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country. The rest that came came in last
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50, 60, even 100 years, arable, Pakistani or whatnot, because
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like, we shouldn't have to. So one guy with enemies, like we
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shouldn't have to adapt to that culture because we have our own
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culture. So, he was even telling me like
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this. This guy who is a good friend of
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mine who I really respect, he built the house as well.
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It's significant. And he was saying was we, for
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example, a group of people who listen to hip-hop, that's
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revolutionary because that's part of our culture.
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You know, we do a lot of things that you might not do.
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And here's how you can help even having a lot of conversations
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with me, in regards, to the way we look at religion because if
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you take that same thing, the same way.
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You preach religion and the same, we understand religion and
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put it inside the ghetto, put in Compton or what so an Oakland,
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you know, people won't understand it.
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But if you take the principles and you bring those in, then
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they can adapt to it, you know. So, for example, his soul He was
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a true. What's the order when it comes
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to pick up? For example, what there's a few
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things he said was I want to see him on the podcast but his
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General arguments. I look, if you look at the idea
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of or what six, what's accepted in, yes, in society, right?
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If you have that, if you have that as a kind of gauge for a
13:12
sign principles, then they'll be completely different almost
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sometimes if you go to the get, when you go to African-American
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communities because they have a whole different culture, all
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right? So the way they almost interpret
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religion, sometimes can be different or seen as different,
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you know? And and that's the thing, like
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historically. All religion has come from
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Arabia and Persia. Yeah.
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And as a result, You could argue that it's been seen or
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interpreted through those kind of eyes, as interpreted the
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Americanized to African recognized in the modern-day
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kind of context, you know, I think that's really interesting.
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So it's really like change my thinking about how I think about
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Islam, she Aslam practicing Islam and culture in our society
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because we ultimately here, especially in the UK.
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I would argue most of even in America we are always Clinging
13:57
to who we are, who we were in the east as identities, right?
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A lot of us, haven't really accepted that were in the UK.
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So I spoke about this yesterday, say most of.
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All right, my favorite speaker. Why?
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Because he has in his brain. In his mind, he's understood
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Diamond here in America, you know.
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He's probably like, you know, how he's like, oh, he wants to
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save the union. He gets involved with the phone,
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has a super bowl, faith community, Thanksgiving all that
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stuff. Like he's like, he's like, I'm
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here, I'm living here. Going to embrace the place.
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I'm in because I'm not living in a couple anymore.
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Living in Iraq anymore. All the UK, I'm living in
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Southern California. So I have to understand the
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culture around me especially him as a preacher because I'm a mom,
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he's a preacher, right? So I have to understand, where I
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am, right? If my mindset is still back
14:41
there, then I can't speak to people.
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He goes, he told his really funny story.
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I listen to a lot of his lectures.
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He goes, there was a speaker that I was speaking to.
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He left America, he went back to the East and he goes, I was
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invited to University to give a talk about Islam.
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Yeah. And the MC or whoever the press
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that I was inviting him, she called him up and she extended
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her hand and he goes, I didn't check out and, and I'm proud of
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it, and he's like, well, okay, fine.
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But you made yourself an immediate slum, look, bad in
15:09
front of all the people that were there there to think about
15:12
Islam, right? And he's like, you guys, I
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realized that he didn't understand where he is mindset,
15:16
was still, I'm not talking about shaking hands as a fingerprint
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you're saying, think about the philosophy behind those,
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understand where you are, understand what group you're
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saying and then understand how you can.
15:27
Livia, religion and picture of religion.
15:28
So there's a difference then, of course between because
15:30
naturally, we all do things like which are native to our culture
15:34
where we live. So for example in the UK will be
15:37
will also observe bank holidays and we'll all for, you know, I
15:40
mean like we're conscious of society in the societal Norms
15:44
when we say the same phrases to the same shopkeepers that that
15:47
people of different backgrounds we use and what's going on by
15:49
me? Yeah.
15:49
What's happening? Boss like things like that, two
15:51
weeks and chips then once. But no, the idea being is that
15:55
it's embedded. It in us because we're born
15:57
abroad in the society. But what they're saying is doing
15:59
which is different, as he's actively embracing it and then
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trying to make changes to himself.
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So maybe he can engage short, Islam is compatible, no matter
16:07
where you are, yeah, for sure, that's the point, that's been
16:09
too big but it's not just meant for one area of the world.
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You know, at the same time, I'll see you on the flip side.
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It's also worth remembering that we have so much hate about is
16:18
how Islam is strange. How it's done?
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We'll leave this world. As a strange will always be
16:22
straight to people and how for example, the non-believers will
16:24
never accept you unless you are like So is that kind of fine
16:27
line where you're embracing Identity or what you are, but
16:31
you also not giving up your exact principles course.
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As it was a foundation can be, you know, that can be really
16:38
odds with this like I do right now.
16:39
For example, in America, the LG B TQ thing is a big challenge
16:42
for a lot of people because like, you know, even here in the
16:45
UK even though he actually was things bigger.
16:47
Yeah, in schools, right? It's probably worse.
16:49
But everyone's like look like we appreciate where we are.
16:52
We're not going to enforce our generals but same time.
16:54
We have our principles. Yeah right.
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And have to Abide by them. And that's was weird in America
16:59
that you have the conservatives or the Republicans one side, who
17:02
are pushing, you know, Muslims like erases angle and then you
17:05
have the Democratic and liberal side Progressive side which is
17:08
like, oh we embrace you but comments, we will not ask who
17:11
you are, you understand? So this is kind of like and then
17:15
you just kind of stuck in the mud, you don't answer that.
17:16
Don't want to go. That is that's interesting
17:18
because there's similarities between that mentality.
17:22
And if you're bringing it back to the communities within our
17:25
school of thought, Then I'll move.
17:27
I had been all of that. You might have a case where.
17:29
For example, someone is saying you're welcome to attend our
17:31
Center. You're welcome to in
17:33
participating are modulus but you have to do things out way
17:36
for example, there are, you know, correct me if I'm wrong
17:40
shade but when when it comes to time of morning and you're doing
17:43
Martha more love, them are rocky women.
17:45
Don't stand up and they don't beat their chests.
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There was like the main collects other ways of morning.
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Yeah. And they've got different ways
17:54
of morning and you know, my community.
17:56
He is done for example, the same way as the men do.
17:58
Identically all, for example, in some communities, you hear the
18:02
name of the twelve, holy and Mom, you stand up and on heads
18:04
other committees it down. There are two other.
18:06
So you have to ask, what are some, you sit down, somebody
18:07
stand up. And I've been to places where if
18:10
a guy sitting down during the out of water, then the whole
18:13
mosque is standing up. Everyone's looking at me, who's
18:16
this old? You come to know what I mean?
18:18
So it's we are at risk at some times of doing that.
18:21
We might look at something, you will welcome to enter our space
18:24
but into as we wish. So I remember Oscar told me the
18:27
story I wanted his name. He was like.he convert someone
18:29
to Islam. This is America, right?
18:32
And she goes the next day. She came to the mosque and I was
18:33
borrow, they're doing a lot of Martin, right?
18:37
And he goes, he told me something I say is I know the
18:39
story of someone who loves my to myself, right?
18:41
But it's interesting to think about she said, he goes, she
18:44
told me she goes, say it. The people that the American
18:47
people will never understand this, they will never be able to
18:50
comprehend this. And he's like, that changed my
18:52
whole thinking, because we don't think about that.
18:53
And I'm telling you, I like, I used to be a sunny, I know, Amy
18:56
Martin that for me is first right now is very normal life as
18:58
a sudden. They used to freak me out.
19:00
Yeah, because I like, I could never understand that, I didn't
19:02
really understand like, why would somebody do that?
19:04
Never seen it before my life, on the flip side I'm from a Sufi
19:07
Circle, Sophie family. So they they do zika, right?
19:10
And when I show my see, our friends occur that, what the
19:12
hell was this? Like, they don't, they don't get
19:13
it. So, there's always a kind of
19:15
like, you know, other side is bit weird, kind of mentality,
19:18
but also like me to appreciate where we are.
19:21
And what's the best way to practice our religion and
19:24
understand that, you know, Are in a culture that is very
19:28
different to the culture that we that we enjoy, and we appreciate
19:30
sometimes, but you accept that. Would you adopt what you're
19:32
doing? So for example, with bottom in
19:34
that case or Vicar of yours from a Sufi family and so on, do you
19:38
change the way you do things to appease the external?
19:42
So, for me, personally, gave me personally, I have a connection.
19:45
I have a way that I connect the monsoon.
19:46
Correct. Right.
19:47
It's a very specific kind of thought of modulus the Martin
19:49
like that's just how I am. That's how that's that's me my
19:52
personal connection Point Mom if I step outside and let's say,
19:55
for example, I'm going to, you know, No recycle almost in proud
19:57
or go to an ominous, an event, which is not the same
20:01
demographic. I need to understand, what is
20:03
my, what is the playground? Like what, who am I speaking to
20:06
my preaching to and and, you know, embracing the best, the
20:09
best way? You know, we have some people
20:10
for example, that you lose prime example, would you lose, you
20:12
know, how it is with us in Toulouse.
20:14
And this is us what we see is, especially America.
20:16
Sometimes they'll have de luces processions, everyone's doing
20:20
Martin, topless Martin, you know, signs in English.
20:23
And, you know, the average Americans.
20:25
Okay, why should I It looks great.
20:27
Look by Bart, the best. The best thing we did in London,
20:30
2014. I think it was when we did the
20:32
ashram watch and they made it about an anti-terrorism watch,
20:37
remember this? Well, there's no tice's, you
20:39
know, I've got a strange, I found a strange because nobody
20:42
thing is, I was used to a certain way or I know you didn't
20:45
it made the news the next day it was all over the news.
20:49
I was like, it was anti 10,000 wasn't much to consider is up
20:51
against that. That's the point.
20:53
What? Why?
20:54
Why You're going to procession. Why was the philosophy to teach
20:59
people about what I'm saying? So what's the best way to do
21:01
that? You have to ask yourself that
21:02
and that's what we don't do. Unfortunately and look I'm like
21:05
II. Appreciate like, you know, you
21:06
guys know me. I love Arabic loves me.
21:08
I love you know, listen to Matt well and we love your poetry.
21:11
Thank you. And there's other things that
21:27
when I step outside that my community and I'm in a different
21:30
land different, you know, I'm not an obligation ultimately to
21:32
spread that message as best I can.
21:34
So I need to appreciate that, you know, it's a different
21:37
world, a different way of thinking, I don't, you look.
21:40
I think it's very simple. You think about what your, what
21:42
Your Head this is, what's your, what's your goal?
21:45
I remember one time a speaker told me he's like, we want to
21:48
do. We want to do a female modulus,
21:53
so female-led modulus. So the woman will give a lecture
21:55
in front of both. The men and the women, which
21:57
flashes is like crazy, right? I was like, look, I get what
22:00
you're trying to do, I understand it.
22:02
But how about instead of doing that?
22:04
Don't do something that's going to make, people think about what
22:07
your goal is. So your goal is to get a woman
22:09
to give a measures or give a lecture in front of men woman,
22:11
what's the best way to reach that goal?
22:13
Think about like that. That's the best way to look at
22:15
things wrong thing in front, rather than trying to push the
22:17
wave too much. You know?
22:19
So if you figure out what your goal is, let's say you go to
22:21
spread to teach no mrs. Wong say yea or to public
22:24
memory, among the same or to you.
22:26
No, whatever it is. What to spread Islam Weber's
22:28
once you figure out what your goal is, you can figure out and
22:30
who your target audience is. Then you can figure out the best
22:32
way to reach that goal. I think that's the one thing a
22:36
lot of us like his wisdom is having that wisdom to do not
22:39
what we like. But what's right?
22:41
What's wrong? Well that shouldn't.
22:42
That was the me from all of us and expectation of the from like
22:44
Community leaders Cause I don't think cause everyone the problem
22:49
is, if you leave that for us to make decisions, everyone has an
22:52
opinion by things important to see leadership, you know people,
22:55
yeah, I don't know, like look I'm I've become the thing is,
22:59
you know, how it is with communities.
23:00
I'm sure everyone is watching. Can like, listening can really
23:03
like, relate to this. But sometimes some communities
23:06
very difficult to try and get your communities to be on board
23:09
with some stuff. Yeah.
23:10
Or to, you know, I appreciate, you know, your perspectives and
23:13
you can really become an like it can really drive you crazy.
23:16
Crazy trying to, you know, trying to push people to do what
23:21
you want to do. Ultimately I think you just deal
23:23
with the cards that you have with what's within your within
23:27
your effort, you know, within your hands and try your best to,
23:30
you know, change what you can, you know.
23:32
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. I think generally there's,
23:35
there's a responsibility on us to embrace what we have in terms
23:38
of what we've been taught. Don't forget to see if you can
23:41
change programs at the mosque. Yeah, do it.
23:43
If you can't then, you know finally any do what you can't
23:46
Best lives to God the rest. Yeah, they just like whatever is
23:48
within your hand. Like let's say, even me for
23:50
example, like there was a time when I wasn't getting vital to
23:52
recite poetry and it kind of upset me as a common oversight,
23:55
a lot of like, you know, I've got my own platform.
23:56
I can create stuff on Instagram and creative industry that's the
23:59
beauty but I use what was available.
24:01
Yeah. Do I want.
24:02
And that's the thing about this Society in this day and age.
24:05
Now you have like you have new things for example, you've got
24:10
like organizations like youth organizations and London when
24:14
are now more than ever. Accepting people from different
24:17
backgrounds. I went to Iraq e and a rocky,
24:19
ledge youth measures in English in Muharram last year.
24:22
Shout out to a foundation. And bro, you had an order must
24:27
Marcia being recited before the lecture.
24:29
I'm thinking, yo, this martial law is incredible because me
24:33
there as a non-arab speaker and I recite myself.
24:36
And I enjoy that. That's how I connect as well.
24:39
That caught my attention, but now we're getting to that stage
24:42
and I don't think 10 years ago and that we also have to thank
24:44
you guys as well. Because English modulus English.
24:47
Poetry English recitation, all of that kind of things has
24:50
involved evolved the community at large.
24:54
Integrated people in it. I think we should move on.
24:57
It's kind of, can I say something?
24:58
Yeah. But you know, you talked about
24:59
culture, everything here. So it's culture destroying
25:04
Islam. I'm going to ask this question
25:05
because you were also bring up the example of Ashura position.
25:09
So, for example, culturally back, let's say in indo-pak, if
25:12
we can go back to those countries, it's fine.
25:14
It's normal for you to Identify a Shia and gonna be your chest,
25:18
think of inertia and the streets, why is it a problem
25:21
here? If it's happening here because
25:22
it destroying Islam, but understand it.
25:24
So culture can technically destroy Islam, it depends on the
25:27
culture again. Like it's just like, if people
25:29
don't understand it, they argue prime example, example.
25:31
So you just mentioned Agra Foundation measures here, you
25:33
know, like we love those modules have that.
25:35
That's that could we grow up that kind of thing setting, you
25:37
know, I recite recent loss Muharram and Dearborn.
25:41
They were Heights. Mosque mostly Lebanese American
25:45
who did This demographic has been in America for the past
25:47
hundred years. Yeah, very Americanized right.
25:50
Yeah, sitting on chairs. All the lights are on, you know,
25:53
no matter at all after the lecture finished I was reciting
25:55
poetry. Right?
25:57
So there was no like I'm like hour-and-a-half Martin that we
25:59
used to yeah, you know, I was like, you know, like this is
26:01
what's good for them, we all works for them, it works for
26:04
them, they work know what to say works for.
26:06
This is how they are. So let me do the best I can in
26:08
them there with Civic environment, right?
26:11
If I try to bring what we have and put it there.
26:13
They want appreciate it. Yeah.
26:15
Sage you asked Is culture killing Islam?
26:17
Yeah. Firstly, if I'm being completely
26:20
honest, I think you're asking it to wrong guys.
26:22
But also to right guys, the reason why I say this, is you
26:24
look around, like, maybe no. Do you agree with me?
26:27
But 90% of people that were surrounded with, have a Homeland
26:31
can speak their mother tongue, fluently have up on nationalist.
26:34
That's one thing you've always loved by the way, is your
26:36
favorite majority of the community will be able to say
26:41
like yeah, we don't feel connected to India but our
26:46
Family migrated from Tanzania for example, but me personally,
26:50
I don't have that. I have like a number of
26:52
countries and I know, for example, the other thing, you
26:54
know, mother tongue waving, the flag, supporting your native
26:58
Homeland in a cricket final or football, fine or whatever it
27:01
is, I don't think that's something me and Lori, what
27:03
understand to? The fullest extent?
27:05
So culture in its rawest form, which is purely like order
27:10
modulus Pakistani modulus and Iraqi Arabic modulus and In
27:16
Persia, she got I'm saying like that in itself.
27:18
I don't think we're qualified to speak or prime example.
27:20
How did you feel when a rock when the golf cart are so happy?
27:23
There you go, there you go. There is my mom.
27:46
You're welcome, you to the rocky.
27:47
I communicate woven this cause I'm not actually a rocky myself,
27:49
right? So there was that kind of
27:51
Disconnect that we feel and I fully ready to what you're
27:53
saying. Maybe I'm hold you as often.
27:54
Yeah, by stroke you are no messages.
28:00
You and he asks you to send me a time and a schedule.
28:03
It's only. I think he's becoming more
28:04
quickly by the minute. So tell you that.
28:06
I need to retire. 758 77088. You know, I really want to give
28:10
like the majority, but but that's normal to me, like, I
28:13
know in our community measure the sauces.
28:16
Says, advertise 7 p.m. for us Chuckles.
28:19
Yeah, 7:37 57 before or after this, you know how many times ma
28:25
sha Allah? I have to, I have to give a
28:26
shout out because I love our computer.
28:27
I don't know, I got it at all but that's that's normal for us,
28:30
like, in the community. I've grown up in, like, on the
28:33
dot timing and people know communities.
28:35
I think for different things, like with me, people will say,
28:37
well ma sha Allah, you guys are so organized.
28:40
And very, you know, people people talk about like the same
28:43
qualities realization punctuality.
28:44
When they talk about closures, Took my Rocky communities.
28:47
There's people talk about passion and a lot of them and
28:49
Messiah, but all of these things claimer like this like set by
28:53
things which are core tenets to the to the community.
28:56
And that identity hosseini cultural about is the same
28:58
because typically has any question was General culture
29:00
cultural code is very like if you meet like non-religious or
29:04
nanshy Iraqis their coaches, complete different to yeah.
29:06
Yeah, we used to know but that makes culture beautiful bro like
29:09
a culture beautifies our practice of religion.
29:12
How do you identify yourself? Yeah, I'd say from binary this
29:25
problem, a big problem I think a big problem we have in our own
29:29
selves, our share is, how do we identify our own selves?
29:33
You know, we have an issue, for example we have a crisis.
29:36
So follow this from our job, we like yeah although all she are
29:39
always lamoille have issues for example but I'm comfortable
29:42
saying I'm a British Shia Muslim.
29:44
I'm not gonna say I'm on a rocky British.
29:45
Yeah. The best, that's why I'm saying
29:47
that we're living in a world. Now, web by the, by the year,
29:50
you have another label added to the list.
29:52
You might follow say, this is Stan email linkedin's life.
29:55
And, for example, before, you know, it, there's infighting
29:58
between people who have looked at this, from the same much, why
30:00
what's the problem? You know, I mean, I'll forget
30:02
even the same larger, like why is there an issue with people
30:05
from from other communities within she Aslam?
30:09
I don't get it. Obviously, you have difference
30:10
of opinion with nausea, some are very politicized someone or but
30:13
that should not affect your relationship.
30:15
With a brother and he waited. One thing that I really
30:18
appreciate about London when I when I travel.
30:20
Yeah. And people like oh you know they
30:22
follow this module, we first module.
30:24
Who cares? Are you guys still there?
30:25
Like, mentally you guys recently, that's something we
30:27
left like as a community. Like we don't I gave up on that.
30:30
Don't know why. It's not something that we
30:33
talked about or care about the past 10-15 years, which is
30:36
something I love. I think some of the elders my
30:39
but IJ maybe I generally don't think I'll keep it together.
30:42
I think, anyone under 14. No.
30:43
But, you know, when you go to emerges, for example, you have a
30:46
Pretty you know, decent demographic both ethnic wise and
30:48
in terms of who they know who they are who they follow.
30:50
Yeah. Does it about the module which
30:52
is, you know, I can I still can't believe is a token for
30:56
does not come with a point of contention.
30:57
Like I you are you really still there?
30:59
Like it's very strange. I think you'll find it strange.
31:01
Let me ask you guys another question.
31:02
Yeah, kind of quickfire ones we've talked earlier about this.
31:05
Arab superiority thing and now you're talking about mixing a
31:07
modulus. If someone comes up to you and
31:11
says you're not Arab. For example, an Arab comes up to
31:15
you and says As I can't, you know, you're reciting this wrong
31:18
or name is Roz. I should be a robot, for
31:20
example. Okay, call yourself.
31:23
Heather should be pronounced either.
31:24
So, so awesome. Just happened to me.
31:27
It's really upset me. Okay?
31:29
Really upset me one time I was in d.c.
31:30
Yeah, I was getting food from a food truck.
31:34
I think I was Pakistani rightfully the Pakistani zico,
31:37
he goes away from Allah, from Pakistan originally and you know
31:41
me, I'm like third generation by saying, I don't think you do.
31:44
I wish I could buy. Yeah, it's not my father Keon
31:47
here. Yeah, maybe a few things here
31:49
Tika and I speak Arabic. So, the face.
31:56
Yeah. And he goes to me.
31:58
He was like, oh, so where you from the Pakistan?
32:01
He's not speaking to me, or to other.
32:02
Arms are not speak or do this guy with an ironic.
32:05
Was you kids, you know, you don't, you know, didn't your
32:08
parents teach you or do what's wrong with you?
32:09
Ben, you're getting my Jeep and I was like, wow, like you re
32:12
just threw my my parents, my upbringing, my whole life.
32:15
Experience under the bus. You don't even know me.
32:19
You don't know my my my 2020. I was 25 years. 20 years time,
32:22
you don't know my 26 years of History.
32:24
You don't know what kind of experiences are.
32:26
I've I've had a notice like just one blanket thing is judge me
32:29
like that and it really hurt me and until today like now and
32:33
then I'll see comments online like oh this guy's Pakistani, we
32:36
tend to speak. He has been a strange dreams,
32:39
within Rocky dining and so I know.
32:40
But like I don't I don't fit in the kind of, you know,
32:43
demographic that you want me to fin, like I'm My experience is
32:48
like and you everyone's experience is very fluid and
32:50
very deep, you know, everyone's got like but me I didn't grow up
32:54
in the way you expect people to grow up but they grow up on a
32:56
Civic Community specific culture their parents migrated 20 years
33:00
ago. And that's who they are, you
33:02
know? And I but but let me ask you a
33:03
question which is me by the way, I like it because that's what
33:06
I'm saying. So people will do that and they
33:07
will sometimes harshly judge you for your name or anything about
33:10
your identity. Like for example, you're not
33:12
being able to speak what we're doing.
33:13
People judge you harshly because you're a Pakistani origin.
33:15
Yeah. But that's why I'm saying,
33:17
potentially this concept, whether you agree or not of Arab
33:21
Superior, superiority comes from people.
33:23
Say, well, these guys, they have most imams or if not all the
33:27
imams in the Middle East, or in Iran or whatever.
33:31
And they think the only religion, you know what I mean.
33:34
So when you go to Iraq, you have to understand their culture of,
33:37
to abide by their culture, which personally, I don't think is, is
33:39
wrong at all. I know there's a lot of people
33:42
who feel like that. Do you know what I mean?
33:43
Or, for example, they will respect.
33:46
One who comes to their scent on speaker with proper Margaret and
33:49
they can pronounce they're called on perfectly and that
33:51
that you eat is great. And so on, there's like a level
33:53
of wildest got my base color or something like that because
33:56
you're from a community where people say well, as Wally it
33:59
instead of olive oil in and this is not a joke, like this is an
34:02
actual thing. Like there's there's I've grown
34:04
up listening to Scholars, who struggle to pronounce because of
34:09
their native tongue and yeah, they speak.
34:11
Mmm, but people judge, you know, let me rightly or wrongly but it
34:14
exists but I tell you something and I said is on the podcast in
34:17
front of her, I was listening. Yeah.
34:20
Like ever since I moved God's watching as well, God's watching
34:22
his work. Everything ever since I moved I
34:27
found it very difficult to make friends in the community I'm in
34:30
and I know for a fact the reason is is because everyone there is
34:34
mostly Arab and I'm not calling them, graphic MSP successful.
34:38
I don't have that problem. It's funny because I have the
34:40
problem anywhere else, not in this community.
34:42
You know, in the community outside of, you know, where I am
34:43
now, that's crazy. But it's like, I think it's It's
34:46
not it's not over racism. It is very subtle.
34:48
So oh yeah. Well, you know it's like well
34:51
what will hang out with something that will let you
34:53
know? We don't I hate all the time of
34:54
the way I will call you and let you know.
34:57
Yeah. And I know for a fact that's,
34:59
that's the problem because when I have friends that are Lebanese
35:03
that move to the same Community, oh, come over, you know, bring
35:05
the family, I will have, you know, it's I don't see any of
35:07
that with me, and it's very, very think it's me.
35:12
I'm like, I can handle that. I'm okay.
35:13
But there's people that we know, People are communities that have
35:16
real, like, Rivers, like, coming from, like white backgrounds,
35:19
black backgrounds. Other, my, our backgrounds.
35:22
And they must face it really, really badly and that's by the
35:24
way with me with that with a lot of people knowing who I am put
35:27
them, see me Versailles you know them respecting me with that
35:30
still there is that kind of barrier there with me being
35:32
essentially adopted a rocky. Yeah there's still that barrier
35:35
that I think so much how it is for like a river whose not
35:37
actually you know hasn't got any ties to committee at home and
35:40
who is, you know, remember last year.
35:43
Sorry bro. The race is important, we talked
35:48
about your tax debt which some of the clip.
35:49
Yeah. Well we said we're talking about
35:52
how reverts find it hard to get married or to assimilate into
35:56
communities. We talked about reverts who are
35:59
not visibly non-muslims. Were not Muslims, you get me on
36:03
I for example you look at nobody, you can't tell where
36:05
they sit on your ass here. All you know is he looks
36:07
probably Pakistani therefore is probably a Muslim you know what
36:10
I mean? Yeah so that it as a condiment,
36:13
I hope so no but I'm saying, Like I completely agree with
36:16
you. No.
36:17
But honestly, like for me personally and like, I recommend
36:19
like business advice and was listening.
36:21
And you guys like myself, like, I try my best when I go
36:24
anywhere. If, when I speak to someone, I
36:28
give it my full attention, not just in terms of because people
36:31
speaking me some time, I see this like don't realize like,
36:32
they wonder how you doing boy, okay?
36:34
Yeah, I'll see you around. Yeah, and it's kind of woke up
36:35
still inside the room. Mmm, it's like you don't like,
36:38
it would be nice if we could have actual conversation because
36:40
our house music conversations in that community.
36:44
So I try my best. Like when I was picked on I feel
36:46
the tension, especially, I don't know them, because that's the
36:48
point of our religion. Is it to be merciful, you know,
36:50
we've been friends for many years nor yeah.
36:51
Okay. And decades a lot, a lot, a long
36:54
time, long time. And I don't remember, an
36:57
instance where I thought to myself, either?
36:59
You're a Pakistani. Yeah.
37:00
Well, you know, an Arab, it's never come to my mind, like,
37:03
I've never met a friend, is a friend that and they don't think
37:05
that's something everyone should look at.
37:06
What I have a question for, you know what?
37:08
Yeah, you have Pakistani origin. Yeah, why you identify mainly as
37:13
British? Can I say London London?
37:15
Like I said, okay, forget your from your from Northwest
37:21
Northwest London is really easy. So, your original you identify
37:29
as a Londoner, but how on Earth do you speak Arabic?
37:33
How do you understand Arabic language?
37:34
Speaking on myself? Because from the very you know
37:38
from the very beginning years of our friendship you were talking
37:41
Arabic. Oh I don't know I was shocked.
37:43
Yeah it's weird man. I was like honestly It's weird
37:46
because like, like so when I became she I was like a 15 years
37:49
old. Mmm.
37:51
And I just thought coming to committee that we go to and just
37:54
saying in literature sitting in lectures.
37:56
I was, told me I refused to comment and I was asked you all,
37:59
what is this mean? What is, what is, what does that
38:00
word mean? And somehow I just picked up by
38:03
the way, he'll respond accurately, I know.
38:05
And then when they find out, okay, he's no Arab like, huh,
38:08
forget know Bernard before his Rocky but it's really fun by the
38:10
way. Because now when I go to commute
38:11
sometimes working those be speaking, a rakhi tied behind my
38:14
back, the think you do. Understand what they're saying
38:17
and I won't say anything. But for the job we said we need
38:26
to bring Nori in a rocky citizenship, back in the day.
38:28
But if your bumper, I appreciate a lot more now, I
38:43
think I definitely appreciate those who Don't hit me the most
38:47
of. Can I be really honest song?
38:49
What you said about feeling welcomed the community, right?
38:52
I'm telling you. Like I never.
38:54
And the thing is, like I never realized this until I moved.
38:57
Yeah. Like I never I never realize how
38:59
anything is me. Like I'm Puttin a about this.
39:01
Like I'm very well that I am very close to being alone.
39:04
I know and I traveled what I do. You're very, I love that I
39:07
travel alone like I'm okay with them happy and even then, so I
39:12
get, I'm not lonely but I get more into I feel really long and
39:14
it's difficult cause like I know people there are misses them of
39:17
hey let's go up. Yeah sure, bro.
39:19
Yeah, Charles, what's up and show that you know, Jonathan
39:21
Cheban absolute like just just formalities and Muhammad is like
39:27
if it was me personally I can maybe because I can see the
39:29
other side. I get it.
39:30
But like, if someone reached out to me a bunch of times I said,
39:33
hey let's go out as some kind of, you know, get the head.
39:35
It's my god-given duty, like, I've got be bit.
39:36
Merciful, he's obviously, moved countries and different world.
39:40
Let me try. And, you know, let me be a bit
39:42
merciful and act like the prophet and and trying welcome
39:45
in him. But don't like this.
39:50
I'm trying I'm not making a blanket statement.
39:51
There are not people that I do know, then they're good friends
39:53
of mine but it's like I expect more from religious community.
39:56
Yeah I expect more expect a higher standard.
39:59
I don't see that and I know that even here, we get lost in that
40:02
as well because when I was living here we are, you know, is
40:04
you lost in your work? You lost in your kind of Social
40:06
Circle to reach out to you and you too busy for it, right?
40:08
So I get the other side of it as well, but my point is that we
40:11
should really try and, you know, be more merciful to others.
40:15
And be more welcoming others. Especially those you go to the
40:17
most seasoned sitting by himself.
40:19
Yeah. You see a river whose singing by
40:20
himself? Go sit with them.
40:22
Yeah. Like one thing I loved most was
40:25
that of showers is Savory of al-hussein.
40:27
Never forget him how he used to go to and this guy.
40:31
I see Reno say Riyadh Missouri and we used to go to Zenia.
40:37
I'll never forget like he'll be the only guy sitting with the
40:40
youth. I can he's thirteen, fourteen,
40:42
fifteen just eating with them. That's Mercy West Lucknow.
40:45
Like, real conversations with it, me too, me, too.
40:48
Like I see that now because for example, Marshall lights, a real
40:51
past orders kids. Most of all martial arts
40:54
training behind the scenes, which is allowing.
40:58
We have, we have, we have very sparse age range, aftermarket
41:01
team. I'm just going to say no re on
41:05
all honesty. I read that post.
41:06
Although I don't feel lonely, but I really wanted to tell you
41:09
on not alone, God is always there with you.
41:12
Thanks, never mind. You all you message me.
41:13
I don't know. Yeah, I just messaged you.
41:15
But I was going to say God is always with you was like he
41:18
should know the thing. Is that, that that's the so for
41:20
me I'm always like, okay, it's the way my mind works is if I'm
41:23
going through something something how big or small, is
41:25
it okay? What was the point of this?
41:27
How much 12? So I realized the point of this
41:29
for me is just to have to work on God and have him as your best
41:32
friend. You don't worry.
41:32
I'll be honest as your best friend, by the way.
41:45
Many of our kind of. So without saying the place
41:47
called people might relate to it, be okay with being alone, be
41:49
okay. With people not replying to you,
41:51
be okay. With people not like, you know,
41:53
inviting you all and, and calling you be okay with the
41:57
fact that you might be a river and the community that is except
41:59
you. It's tough, It's Not Easy spot.
42:01
The strongest is part of the struggle is very, very
42:03
difficult. And the thing is, so, the reason
42:05
I'm so vocal about this is because I never thought that
42:07
this would be something that affects me, because I'm very
42:10
okay with being alone like a Maraca.
42:12
Like when I was living here, we never saw various each other
42:15
once once. A few months and there was that
42:16
big of a deal. Like, I was, okay, all this
42:18
whole almost every day to find yourself and to find the
42:32
true path, you did that alone. You integrated to a new culture.
42:35
You did that alone, you learn a new language of that loan.
42:37
Of course, you moved to a new country at yourself and all of
42:40
those things you did and you were able to handle.
42:43
And whilst doing that, of course your Introvert person.
42:46
So like you said, you'll as long as I've known you which what
42:50
nearly probably 10 years is, I you've always been comfortable
42:53
doing that. No, I mean but if you like the
42:55
the reason I'm Brooklyn was like I said, it's because there's
42:57
people out there have it worse. Of course, of course not that
42:59
and but when you go to know saying next time, look for
43:01
people on the sides, that's what I'm saying.
43:03
You know, you asked me what we talked earlier, I said that's
43:05
what hit me because there's probably a lot of people who we
43:08
don't realize, because we're going to the same.
43:11
Mosque we go to, I guarantee you love people, listen to podcasts
43:13
are in that position right now, this woman, sure, I'm sure.
43:15
We have to be conscious. I mean, I'm a brother by local
43:19
Center who I knew from University.
43:21
I used to study in Birmingham, as I Pro, will you do here?
43:24
Because I move to London, I was like, yeah, man.
43:26
Let's go out sometime, never hit my behalf and I think that is
43:30
good of course, from from my end, it may not have been
43:34
conscious and definitely wasn't intentional but now that's
43:37
become something. Which I've clocked.
43:39
Yes, become conscious to me. So I think in sha Allah we all
43:42
can do, sometimes people's circumstances changed.
43:44
So do not always Caleb. Oh yeah, yeah, so so bad.
43:48
I'll give a caveat like they're not even on my part is that
43:50
there needs to be a big like, you know, posted Bond and
43:53
understand that people have your situations.
43:54
But I'm speaking on a very general level, of course, like
43:57
the welcoming just be a nice guy.
43:58
Yeah, - it's difficult with those who you've not seen
44:04
recently or never met before even with your friends like
44:07
check it out. Yeah, well The Profit we talk to
44:11
you later, bro. Walk away.
44:12
You wouldn't do that. He'll always come and check on
44:13
you, but there's story again from same way.
44:15
Before that had the prophet. And this is a big thing.
44:17
I'll mention it in detail and father, send you back.
44:20
Rinse Aid. Was the first that isn't
44:25
sticking to your word is a big thing for me.
44:27
Like, I try my whenever I can however, small is.
44:30
How big is stick to my word? Yeah, and he goes the prophet
44:33
one time. He promised someone whom.
44:34
He's also Heal Me him on a certain day at a certain time.
44:37
He wait three days for him. No way.
44:40
People don't come home and you know, I gave the guy my would
44:42
have to be here, right? And that's and so once again you
44:45
tell us about I'll hit you up, I'll give you a call and Shalala
44:47
last minute, they cancel out. That's a no.
44:49
But that's a promise. Yeah, you're right promise even
44:51
me, some people expect it but sometimes I've been in
44:53
situations where I've told someone let's go out and it's
44:55
been so difficult for me to go, but I'm like, you know, I give
44:57
you my word, I'm gonna come. Yeah, I don't care.
44:59
I don't care if I lose money, I don't care if it was because my,
45:01
if you're not worth your word, then as a man, what you were
45:04
very say, you know, Moment On by his time, by the way.
45:06
So if you give us someone like I'm going to see you at 8:00 on
45:09
that specific day. Yeah.
45:10
And you can also log in it which is say the same his time and it
45:13
wasn't about being late to the podcast.
45:15
You're never late, huh? No matter.
45:17
How late you are, interesting.
45:45
To the UK back to UK. I'm Hanna Kim.
45:47
At know when you coming back. Oh, Charles you go back to the
45:50
US, public few months. When we do, we can we actually
45:53
go like a date and time for you. Make it, you know why we've been
46:12
gone for a year? Yeah, I know, you know what's
46:14
crazy eye? My system is, I left.
46:17
I came back on the same day that I left the house without
46:20
realizing IG. Yeah, I had no idea.
46:22
That's crazy. Well, I bless you and your
46:25
family always and keep doing what you're doing, man.
46:27
Honestly, you've got family here and I don't just mean.
46:30
Of course, you'll find you've got us and, you know, we've
46:33
built, I think in a little bit TV with everyone is Barker's, is
46:37
this your family? Yeah, that's it on me.
46:38
Hmm? Years old.
46:40
High school memories and used to Say what was yours downstairs?
46:48
I'll say I'm still here. 20 years there no progression.
46:56
Anyway, guys, if you're, if you haven't already hit, subscribe,
46:59
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47:00
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47:13
If you've guys have got any ideas, what?
47:15
You want to hear about drop that in the comments section Below?
47:18
Have you just moved to a new community?
47:20
How do you feel? Do you feel ABS or superiority
47:23
and have a superiority complex and Islam do?
47:26
For example, you feel that people don't give you their
47:28
word, do people promise you one thing and don't deliver.
47:32
This is what we want to hear guys.
47:33
Want to hear your honest and and and very very transparent
47:36
feedback in sha Allah on the discussion and really own.
47:39
Anything else you want to say anything Dad?
47:41
Let's hit that subscribe button and if there's anything you want
47:44
to add that, we have missed on. Has conversation leaving the
47:46
comments on the Charlotte. We can continue this
47:48
conversation with everyone. Thank you very much.
47:51
She'll see you. Until next time, take me with
47:54
you to the states. Come Faith form is Doggies.
47:57
Get back together for when I say, come on, I mean it's like
48:02
you take us. I will try to get him to commit.
48:07
Our guys have a great week. We'll see you next week.
48:13
Was that while they called?