Latest / Pit Talk / Is Lando Norris's title dream over? United States GP Review

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Is Lando Norris's title dream over? United States GP Review · Pit Talk

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Pit Talk, a Fox Sports and
0:02
Speaker 1: Speed Cafe Formula one podcast. On today's episode, Ferrari takes
0:07
Speaker 1: it's second one two of the season, with charl Leclair
0:10
Speaker 1: leading Carla Science back into Constructors Championship contention, and Max
0:15
Speaker 1: Vestappen beats Lando Norris to third in a controversial finish
0:19
Speaker 1: to the race that's put the Briton's outside title hopes
0:22
Speaker 1: on the brink. My name's Michael Lamonado, motorsport writer for
0:25
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Australia. It's great to have your company and
0:28
Speaker 1: the company of my co host from Speed Cafe. After
0:32
Speaker 1: watching the United States Grand Prix, he's fully prepared to
0:34
Speaker 1: support Liam Lawson's bid for Australian citizenship.
0:37
Speaker 2: It's Matt Gosh, I've already got the hat. And for
0:41
Speaker 2: those that don't get the joke, in the La Motorswat
0:44
Speaker 2: Festival vouchery, Botas was there and we indoctrinated him as
0:47
Speaker 2: an Australian by presenting him with a hat with a kangaroo.
0:50
Speaker 2: In fact that Michael can see one just serve my
0:52
Speaker 2: shoulder here. So yeah, we'll get a hat printed. We
0:57
Speaker 2: might even get a stuffed sep put in like an
1:01
Speaker 2: Australian cricket shirt because cricket's not at the Commonwealth Games
1:06
Speaker 2: or any make up for that, and we'll just fully
1:09
Speaker 2: embrace him. We'll even wearing songs heading down to Bunnings
1:12
Speaker 2: for a sanger and onions in in in no times,
1:17
Speaker 2: it'll be no workers, mate.
1:19
Speaker 1: Yes, I do like that. You are the one man
1:22
Speaker 1: who has formed converting drivers to Australian.
1:27
Speaker 2: Impressive stat Yeah, no worry should we right?
1:29
Speaker 1: Yeah? I like it a lot. But look if you're
1:34
Speaker 1: worried no cricket the Comonwealth Games. I believe it's at
1:35
Speaker 1: the Olympics, isn't it so even bigger stage, so something
1:39
Speaker 1: in there.
1:39
Speaker 2: There you go, but yeah, not by the sport.
1:41
Speaker 1: But anyway, no, I like that's a different, different discussion.
1:44
Speaker 2: Move seamlessly, on quickly, quickly.
1:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, Now United States Grand Prix forming on was
1:48
Speaker 1: back after a second mid season break for the first
1:51
Speaker 1: of the final six rounds of the season to decide
1:54
Speaker 1: both titles. And we're one race into the first triple header,
1:57
Speaker 1: which will take us to Mexico this weekend and then
2:00
Speaker 1: zill the weekend after, and all the news was saved
2:03
Speaker 1: up for pretty much the three or four days before
2:05
Speaker 1: this weekend started. So let's catch you up with everything
2:08
Speaker 1: you might have missed since last week's episode, and we
2:11
Speaker 1: begin with Red Bull Racing being the focus of pitlane
2:14
Speaker 1: speculation leading up to the United States Grand Prix after
2:17
Speaker 1: rival teams lobby the FIA to look into a device
2:20
Speaker 1: with which the front section of the floor, the bib
2:23
Speaker 1: or the tea tray could be adjusted from the cockpit,
2:25
Speaker 1: with McLaren ceo Zach Brown even coming remarkably close to
2:29
Speaker 1: labeling the team as having cheated Matt. Red Bull Racing
2:31
Speaker 1: is obviously denied that charge, but is redesigning the part
2:35
Speaker 1: to comply with FIA requests.
2:38
Speaker 2: It does comply. This is the thing. The concern here
2:41
Speaker 2: is surrounding whether or not that it is comparatively easily accessible.
2:47
Speaker 2: Was that exploited in part for my conditions? That's ultimately
2:51
Speaker 2: the crux of the matter. There are things they can
2:53
Speaker 2: do to seal it and satisfy that going forward, But
2:55
Speaker 2: has it been done historically? There are some who that
3:00
Speaker 2: it has. Read Bull obviously vehemently denies that's ever been
3:04
Speaker 2: the case. It's been there for three years, they claim. Interestingly,
3:09
Speaker 2: I first got wind of this on the Wednesday night
3:13
Speaker 2: Thursday night. It was a couple of days before the
3:14
Speaker 2: Australian Grand Prix and I went to Red Bull. In
3:18
Speaker 2: the first article I wrote, i'd actually gone to Red
3:20
Speaker 2: Bull and asked, this has been labeled. You've been fingered
3:23
Speaker 2: as the team in question here, can you confirm or deny?
3:26
Speaker 2: And they vehemently denied it, and as a result I
3:29
Speaker 2: didn't name the team. It was only when the Telegraph
3:31
Speaker 2: came out a day or two later naming the team
3:34
Speaker 2: that it all sort of started to snowball from that
3:37
Speaker 2: point on because Red Bull denied it. And then they
3:39
Speaker 2: come and said, well, actually, yeap kind of was us.
3:43
Speaker 2: So there's varying degrees of wrongs and I guess it
3:48
Speaker 2: depends where your allegiances sit here. It needs to be
3:52
Speaker 2: underlined that Red Bull has not demonstrably broken the rules,
3:57
Speaker 2: no matter what everyone else is trying to stir up
3:59
Speaker 2: at this point.
4:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. No rules have been broken,
4:02
Speaker 1: just the potential existed to maybe make it slightly easier
4:05
Speaker 1: to have broken the rules potentially. So, but it's exactly
4:08
Speaker 1: the kind of topic that teams love to run with.
4:10
Speaker 1: So it's probably not the last we've heard of it.
4:11
Speaker 1: But McLaren, which has been so much on the front
4:13
Speaker 1: foot in trying to put pressure on Red Bull for
4:16
Speaker 1: that matter, has found itself under deeper technical scrutiny of
4:19
Speaker 1: its own following revelations that had been asked to change
4:22
Speaker 1: the design of its low downforce rear wing in Azerbaijan.
4:26
Speaker 1: It's since admitted it's had to change other wings too
4:28
Speaker 1: to satisfy new potential FIA interpretations of regulations around flexibility, and.
4:35
Speaker 2: It denied that to begin with as well. Over the
4:38
Speaker 2: weekend it was put to McLaren, you know, have you
4:41
Speaker 2: had to change more than just the back of your wing? No?
4:44
Speaker 2: And then it comes out that no, they've actually had
4:46
Speaker 2: to change their entire suite of wings to satisfy that interpretation,
4:51
Speaker 2: which again what McLaren has done has been perfectly within
4:54
Speaker 2: the rules. They don't have to change their wings. That
4:58
Speaker 2: the FIA has a different interpretation is great. That's that's
5:01
Speaker 2: the FIA's interpretation. The people that actually matter when it
5:04
Speaker 2: comes to passing that as legal or not, the scrutiniers.
5:08
Speaker 2: So you can choose to take the FIA's advice on
5:12
Speaker 2: board and make those modifications, or you can choose to
5:14
Speaker 2: ignore it and run the gauntlet with the stewards. Given
5:17
Speaker 2: McLaren's position, you'd be stupid to run that gauntlet. So
5:20
Speaker 2: you take the advice of the FIA and make the changes.
5:23
Speaker 2: But again, this is a device that was passed legal
5:26
Speaker 2: in Baku, has passed every scrutineering test all season. It's
5:32
Speaker 2: a bit like, if you think of it, way back
5:33
Speaker 2: in the day, like the Brad and Fan car. The
5:36
Speaker 2: car was perfectly legal at that point. They then changed
5:39
Speaker 2: the interpretation, the interpretation and some regulations and from that
5:41
Speaker 2: point forward the car was legal. The cars ever banned,
5:45
Speaker 2: despite what some people might tell you, It was just
5:47
Speaker 2: the interpretation of regulations changed. And that's what's happened here,
5:50
Speaker 2: just on a much more minute scale.
5:53
Speaker 1: Let's move on now to the FIA World Motorsport Council,
5:56
Speaker 1: which during the week building up to the United States
5:58
Speaker 1: Grand Prix announced that Formula one and we'll ditch the
6:00
Speaker 1: bonus point for fastest laps from next year, just six
6:04
Speaker 1: laps after its introduction in twenty nineteen. This comes just
6:08
Speaker 1: weeks after moderate controversy in Singapore where Daniel Ricardo took
6:12
Speaker 1: the fastest lap and deprived Lando Norris of a bonus
6:15
Speaker 1: point for his championship campaign. Yeah.
6:18
Speaker 2: I'm really on the fence with this one. I don't
6:20
Speaker 2: mind that it was there, but at the same time,
6:23
Speaker 2: I can see the potential for it to be abused
6:27
Speaker 2: from a sporting perspectives, So I don't mind that it's
6:29
Speaker 2: not there. It's kind of a eh response for me.
6:33
Speaker 2: What was more interesting, I think for the World Modesport
6:35
Speaker 2: Council is acknowledgment that the technical regulations were subject to
6:41
Speaker 2: extensive enhancements to the aerodynamic regulations, which have been subject
6:45
Speaker 2: to a strong collaboration between FIAFO and the Formula One teams.
6:50
Speaker 2: Basically meaning the cars were going to be too slow
6:52
Speaker 2: around the corners and they've fixed the rules six months
6:56
Speaker 2: out before they take effect or yeah, no months out
7:00
Speaker 2: before they take effect. Sorry, basically, so they're not slower
7:04
Speaker 2: than Formula two.
7:05
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well you say eighteen months before they take effect,
7:07
Speaker 1: it's two months before they start being built, so the
7:10
Speaker 1: timeline is much narrower.
7:12
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, well before they can be designed. So yeah, yeah,
7:16
Speaker 2: that's where I was trueing myself up. Because you can
7:18
Speaker 2: only begin aerodynamic design. You can do other stuff. You
7:22
Speaker 2: can do all the plumbing and basic underpinnings of the
7:26
Speaker 2: car now, but the aerodynamic stuff you can only do
7:28
Speaker 2: from January one next year, unless you're entreaty, in which
7:30
Speaker 2: case you can have the new car before Christmas.
7:35
Speaker 1: Let's go over to RV now, where team principal Laurel
7:37
Speaker 1: Meckis has admitted his team could have handled Daniel Ricardo's
7:42
Speaker 1: departure from the sport better, describing it as both frustrating
7:46
Speaker 1: and not ideal, though he insisted Ricardo had known the
7:49
Speaker 1: plan all along.
7:51
Speaker 2: And the award for studying depleting obvious goes too.
7:56
Speaker 1: Look say the alternative Championship for later on, please.
8:00
Speaker 2: My only disappointment from that was that he didn't use
8:03
Speaker 2: the term suboptimal because I just love it. There wasn't
8:08
Speaker 2: enough Formula one jargon in there for my liking. Look,
8:11
Speaker 2: we all knew it. We all knew it was Daniel's
8:14
Speaker 2: last race in Singapore. It's just for whatever reason, we
8:17
Speaker 2: couldn't say it, and therefore us in the media couldn't
8:20
Speaker 2: couldn't write it because it was speculation. This is the
8:24
Speaker 2: challenge that we have in the media and that we
8:27
Speaker 2: often know things, but if we can't validate it, we're
8:30
Speaker 2: writing speculation. So we need to frame it appropriately and
8:34
Speaker 2: as a result, we can only ever frame it as
8:35
Speaker 2: thought to be or understood, or believed or expected that
8:39
Speaker 2: we all knew it at the time. He didn't get
8:41
Speaker 2: the send off he deserved, but ultimately I go back
8:44
Speaker 2: to what I've said before, he knew what he was
8:46
Speaker 2: getting into when he signed up the double line to
8:49
Speaker 2: replace Nick de Resee. Because that treatment was given to Derese.
8:52
Speaker 2: He's not the first driver to get copper. He won't
8:55
Speaker 2: be the last. It's just the brutal nature of Formula one.
8:58
Speaker 2: When it's done with you, it will spit you out
9:00
Speaker 2: pretty pretty haphazardly.
9:03
Speaker 1: I like the three of our five news stories are
9:05
Speaker 1: essentially teams lying when I asked questions, but a more
9:08
Speaker 1: positive one. Williams has received a welcome boost, both morally
9:12
Speaker 1: but mostly financially, after one hundred million shares were sold
9:16
Speaker 1: earlier this month, raking in around one hundred and ninety
9:18
Speaker 1: five million bucks.
9:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's in Australian money. That's so. The shares went
9:22
Speaker 2: for one hundred for a pound each Bridge pound, So
9:25
Speaker 2: one hundred million pound has gone into that team from
9:29
Speaker 2: Donalton Capital. It must be must be said, so their
9:33
Speaker 2: total investment in that team, including all the top ups
9:36
Speaker 2: that they've done to this point, and the acquisition of
9:40
Speaker 2: the team is about eight hundred and twenty seven million
9:43
Speaker 2: dollars Australian or about five hundred and fifty two US,
9:48
Speaker 2: And given the team is worth just over a billion
9:52
Speaker 2: one point one billion or thereabouts, it's sort of getting
9:55
Speaker 2: into dangerous territory in terms of almost over capitalizing. Now
9:58
Speaker 2: Doryalton are almost the point where they can't invest anymore
10:02
Speaker 2: or they just completely eradicate their possibility for a profit.
10:06
Speaker 2: So they need to spend this one hundred million. Well,
10:10
Speaker 2: what we don't know is exactly what it's for. The
10:12
Speaker 2: team did have a one hundred and sixty million dollar loss,
10:16
Speaker 2: off the top my head, hundred and sixty four million
10:17
Speaker 2: dollar loss post tax deficit on its twenty twenty three accounts.
10:22
Speaker 2: That'll be slightly better this year, you would think, But
10:26
Speaker 2: you know it's it's it's not desperate times, but they
10:29
Speaker 2: need to be careful because financially the team can start
10:33
Speaker 2: to enterprecare us a little period here.
10:35
Speaker 1: It's interesting to look at it like that, isn't it.
10:37
Speaker 1: Because they bought the team from Memory for two hundred
10:40
Speaker 1: odd million dollars probably US.
10:42
Speaker 2: Two hundred million US. Yeah, so three hundred million AUSTRAI
10:45
Speaker 2: or one hundred and fifty two million pounds.
10:46
Speaker 1: So you think about how essentially got bargain basement price
10:49
Speaker 1: at a time before the team started increasing in value
10:51
Speaker 1: and of being able to invest. That's subsequent hundreds of
10:54
Speaker 1: millions of dollars, you've said, presumably in improving the state
10:56
Speaker 1: of the team, whereas they would have started with you know,
10:58
Speaker 1: about a billion bucks spin and then had to spend
11:00
Speaker 1: that to improve the team to begin with. So if
11:03
Speaker 1: it does come good in the end, James Vale's leading
11:05
Speaker 1: the team, Carlo Science, Alex Albon, et cetera, maybe it'll
11:07
Speaker 1: all look really very much worth it. But that is
11:10
Speaker 1: very much long term project for Williams, although it did
11:14
Speaker 1: score a couple of points this weekend with Franco Colopinto.
11:16
Speaker 1: How good?
11:17
Speaker 2: How good has Colopinto been? Just just go off on
11:19
Speaker 2: a side for a second. How good has Franco Colopinto been?
11:22
Speaker 2: For me? He's been the standout of the season.
11:24
Speaker 1: Yes, he's really rocketed up very high onto the postseason
11:28
Speaker 1: driver ranking board. I think because it's a combination too
11:31
Speaker 1: that he isn't it one. He's absolutely sees his opportunity.
11:34
Speaker 1: He's made the most of this, hasn't run into it
11:36
Speaker 1: thinking he's going to become good in the last two
11:37
Speaker 1: races or something. He's really gone out and grabbed it
11:39
Speaker 1: with both hands immediately and actually shown that he is
11:43
Speaker 1: Formula one material, not just in speed but in composure.
11:46
Speaker 2: And he looks like it in center. Yeah, it looks
11:48
Speaker 2: so much like Anton Center. It's ridiculous. Yes, And maybe
11:51
Speaker 2: that's it. Yeah.
11:52
Speaker 1: Look, and I think there is something in sort of
11:54
Speaker 1: reigniting the days of having lots of South Americans on
11:57
Speaker 1: the grid, you know, I like that. And already stefanot
11:59
Speaker 1: to Meticcar is thinting that maybe we should go on
12:01
Speaker 1: race in Argentina. GP can't seem to get that done anymore.
12:05
Speaker 2: If we go to Argentina over a wonder, then that
12:08
Speaker 2: gets my massive tick of approval.
12:11
Speaker 1: Let's move on now, map to the United States Grand Prix.
12:14
Speaker 1: We'll talk about Ferraris one two and what that means
12:16
Speaker 1: for the Constructor's Championship a little bit later on, but
12:18
Speaker 1: let's start really with the biggest talking point of this weekend,
12:21
Speaker 1: which was Lando Norris versus Max Verstappen. Norris had been
12:25
Speaker 1: closing gradually in on Verstappen's championship lead over the last
12:29
Speaker 1: month or so, certainly since the mid season break, and this,
12:32
Speaker 1: of course, as we said, the first of the last
12:34
Speaker 1: six races of the season, this was the run in
12:37
Speaker 1: which he really started to need to make big inroads
12:40
Speaker 1: on Verstapan's lee. Now they qualified on the front row,
12:45
Speaker 1: Lando Norris remarkably, in fact consideringly qualifying went ahead of
12:48
Speaker 1: Max Verstappen from pole position. But they came to blows
12:52
Speaker 1: not once but twice over the course of the race,
12:54
Speaker 1: and it ended with for Stappen outscoring Norris not just
12:57
Speaker 1: in the race but over the course of the weekend
12:58
Speaker 1: for the first time since the Belgian Grand Prix, putting
13:01
Speaker 1: the championship picture back a step. Let's dissect this incident
13:05
Speaker 1: by incident, I think, because there are true, really distinct
13:09
Speaker 1: things that happen in this race, although in my opinion
13:11
Speaker 1: they both kind of reflect the same thing from the
13:14
Speaker 1: Norris championship perspective. Started right off the line into turn one,
13:18
Speaker 1: Norris actually got quite a good start. This is to
13:21
Speaker 1: the point where it felt like it really had banished
13:23
Speaker 1: those demons of having poor starts and losing the lead
13:26
Speaker 1: by the end of the first lap. Moved to the
13:28
Speaker 1: left to cover Max for Staffen, but not really anywhere
13:32
Speaker 1: enough considering it was Max for Staffan who he was
13:34
Speaker 1: racing left, I think probably two car wits between himself
13:37
Speaker 1: and the edge of the track, and completely unsurprisingly Max
13:41
Speaker 1: with Staffen, inserted his car in that gap. They did
13:44
Speaker 1: both leave the track with Stappen emerged with what not
13:47
Speaker 1: the lead, but with second place ahead of Norris in fourth.
13:51
Speaker 1: Norris wasn't happy, McLaren wasn't happy. Stewart didn't really seem
13:54
Speaker 1: to care. What was your take on this incident?
13:58
Speaker 2: This takes me back to a piece of commentary from
14:02
Speaker 2: I think it was at Townsville, a Supercars event many
14:05
Speaker 2: years ago. It was a support category there and the
14:08
Speaker 2: co commentator at the time, as for their expert inside,
14:11
Speaker 2: said it just didn't turn left enough. This was after
14:16
Speaker 2: the car ended up firmly in the barrier, and it's
14:20
Speaker 2: exactly what's happened in Lando's case here. He just didn't
14:23
Speaker 2: turn left enough. He'd left a red bull width on
14:26
Speaker 2: the inside, and when you're going against as fierce a
14:29
Speaker 2: competitor as Max mustappen. If you leave half a red
14:33
Speaker 2: Bull with up the inside, he's going to have a
14:35
Speaker 2: good goal at making it a full red Bull. So
14:37
Speaker 2: you can't give him that opening, and Lando did, and
14:41
Speaker 2: it's just I wonder if it's inexperience on Lando's part,
14:45
Speaker 2: having not battled for a championship, and certainly maybe not
14:48
Speaker 2: with with Max understanding how desperate the links that Max
14:53
Speaker 2: will go to to win. We know he's absolutely ruthless.
14:58
Speaker 2: We saw that in twenty twenty one in the battle
15:00
Speaker 2: with Lewis. But Lando wasn't part of that. He was
15:03
Speaker 2: sitting back watching it from a distance, and perhaps that's
15:05
Speaker 2: faded into his distant memory because now that he's effectively
15:09
Speaker 2: in Lewis's position, he's making mistakes that for me, they
15:14
Speaker 2: just strike me as a driver inexperience in fighting for
15:18
Speaker 2: a championship. He's leaving openings, he's leaving opportunities, and at
15:23
Speaker 2: that end of town, he can't make those mistakes because
15:26
Speaker 2: you get punished, and that, I think then sets a
15:29
Speaker 2: negative mindset for the rest of the race, because at
15:31
Speaker 2: turn one you've been done in you feel how done by,
15:34
Speaker 2: not necessarily because of the track limits, although that is
15:36
Speaker 2: certainly going to be part of it. But because you've
15:38
Speaker 2: been left red faced even before you got to the
15:40
Speaker 2: apex of turn one. You've got off the line, you've
15:42
Speaker 2: got the start, you've got the race lead, it's all
15:45
Speaker 2: in your favor, and then you make the mistake that
15:47
Speaker 2: opens the door, creates the opportunity and then sees you
15:50
Speaker 2: pushed wide.
15:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, for me, it really shows it is the term
15:53
Speaker 1: to be an experienced thing. But I think in particular
15:56
Speaker 1: it's the inexperience relatively of racing Forstappan, who races almost
16:02
Speaker 1: differently to most other drivers, and that he's always pretty
16:05
Speaker 1: much at one hundred percent. If he thinks he's got
16:07
Speaker 1: a sniff of a chance of beating you in a
16:09
Speaker 1: battle or in a race, he is at one hundred percent.
16:11
Speaker 1: It really only when he knows he's got no hope
16:14
Speaker 1: that you know, for example, in the Netherlands, he didn't
16:17
Speaker 1: really put up much of a fight because he knew
16:18
Speaker 1: that there was really no point there. It's that lack
16:22
Speaker 1: of comfort street fighting, I think in Formula one and
16:26
Speaker 1: that was exhibit very much a Turn one where he
16:28
Speaker 1: just didn't seem to countenance the concept that Max might
16:32
Speaker 1: take the full width of the track, push him wide
16:33
Speaker 1: and really get his elbows out so early. Perhaps there's
16:36
Speaker 1: an element of also Norris knowing in the back of
16:38
Speaker 1: his mind that if this is a championship contending year,
16:41
Speaker 1: he's the one at this point in time who can't
16:43
Speaker 1: afford to retire from a race. It's all well and
16:44
Speaker 1: good for Max to put himself in a position to
16:46
Speaker 1: crash doesn't really affect his championship lead. But if Norris
16:49
Speaker 1: crashes out of the race, then I really is game
16:51
Speaker 1: over on the spot. So maybe that played a role.
16:54
Speaker 1: But I think this also then reverberated into the second incident,
16:57
Speaker 1: the one that really became the talking point of the race,
16:59
Speaker 1: which was around four or five laps to go at
17:02
Speaker 1: the end of the Grand Prix. It had been nearly
17:04
Speaker 1: ten laps that Norris had been battling to get past Max,
17:06
Speaker 1: Withstappen on freshertize in a car that at that point
17:09
Speaker 1: of the race looked quicker. Tried to take him around
17:11
Speaker 1: the outside of turn twelve, which was the end of
17:13
Speaker 1: that long back straight, and Max did almost just sort
17:16
Speaker 1: of the same thing that he did at turn one,
17:18
Speaker 1: which is got onto the apex but really took up
17:21
Speaker 1: the maximum with a little bit more of the track
17:23
Speaker 1: forced Norris off the track. But Norris then kept his
17:26
Speaker 1: foot in. Either he saw it coming or he understood
17:29
Speaker 1: what he was about to do and executed the pass
17:31
Speaker 1: off the track. There are two, I guess ways of
17:34
Speaker 1: looking at this. One is that Stappan forced him off
17:37
Speaker 1: the track. One is that Norris passed off the track.
17:39
Speaker 1: Stewart sided with Norris in this case, but I think
17:42
Speaker 1: that was also very much a typical max for Stappen defense. Clearly,
17:46
Speaker 1: it is legal according to the Stewards, but it's become
17:50
Speaker 1: a major talking point because it's it's divided opinions in
17:53
Speaker 1: a way almost evenly, I think, in a way that
17:56
Speaker 1: few talking topics over this season. I think of maybe
18:01
Speaker 1: with the exception of that clash in Austria, though even
18:03
Speaker 1: then I think most people cited against Max. What was
18:06
Speaker 1: your take on this one? Do you think the Steward's
18:08
Speaker 1: got this one right? Or is the question really whether
18:10
Speaker 1: or not the rules are fit for purpose?
18:12
Speaker 2: Yere, There's a couple of issues to really unpick it
18:15
Speaker 2: this one. Firstly is that that corner this wasn't the
18:18
Speaker 2: only incident like this that we saw at that particular corner.
18:21
Speaker 2: So there is an issue at that corner and that
18:23
Speaker 2: probably needs to be addressed. I know there are complications
18:26
Speaker 2: around that, but probably something like what they've done the
18:30
Speaker 2: back half of the one ring in terms of gravel
18:33
Speaker 2: and whatever else. There's gotta be something they can do
18:35
Speaker 2: to solve that issue so that this doesn't become a
18:37
Speaker 2: problem going forward. Because you know, it wasn't just Lando Max.
18:42
Speaker 2: There was was George Russell had an incident there. I
18:46
Speaker 2: think Pierre Gaslely was his there as well as Okik.
18:49
Speaker 2: It was one of the one of the other McLaren's
18:53
Speaker 2: over the weekend. You know, the orange cars very confusing.
18:59
Speaker 1: There should be a rule just as a decide of
19:01
Speaker 1: suddenly rocking up with the same color scheme as a
19:04
Speaker 1: rival car, Well.
19:05
Speaker 2: If you can't make it work through technical updates, paint
19:08
Speaker 2: the car the same color and hope. But that's not
19:14
Speaker 2: fair enough. But so that's one issue, which is the
19:18
Speaker 2: design of the track and that runoff section that probably
19:22
Speaker 2: needs to be addressed longer term. That's not solving the
19:24
Speaker 2: issue here. The racing rules is another issue. I think
19:29
Speaker 2: the reason we're talking about that is a byproduct of
19:32
Speaker 2: the track design. We don't talk about the rules of
19:34
Speaker 2: engagement at any other corner at any other point during
19:37
Speaker 2: the year, because the tracks have typically punished them just naturally.
19:41
Speaker 2: So I think that argument also disappears if you address
19:44
Speaker 2: the circuit. And again it's complicated because there's Motor GP there,
19:49
Speaker 2: there's car there's sports cars, there's all sorts of stuff
19:53
Speaker 2: that race at that circuit and one of the big
19:55
Speaker 2: things for any circuit, And this is a criticism that
19:58
Speaker 2: Tilka often gets, which I think think it's probably a
20:00
Speaker 2: little bit unfair. You know, you're well healed enthusiasts who
20:05
Speaker 2: just want to go out and thrash their Porsches and
20:07
Speaker 2: McLarens and Ferraris and whatever. As to munds, they don't
20:10
Speaker 2: want to go and ruin their cars if they make
20:12
Speaker 2: a little mistake. So you don't want to have big
20:14
Speaker 2: expansive runoffs there that you go and destroy the paintwork
20:17
Speaker 2: on these several hundred thousand dollar cars, because that's your
20:20
Speaker 2: bread and butter to these circuits. The Grand Prix usually
20:23
Speaker 2: makes a loss. That's just your that's your marketing budget.
20:26
Speaker 2: It's all these other events during the year, so you
20:28
Speaker 2: need to be advocated for them. So that's not a
20:30
Speaker 2: simple solution. However, basing it on what we saw, I
20:37
Speaker 2: actually sided with Max for the pure fact that that
20:40
Speaker 2: was always going to happen. If you're a racer, if
20:42
Speaker 2: you've got to drive steaming up around the outside of you,
20:45
Speaker 2: we know that in Formula one you can close that door,
20:48
Speaker 2: you can take the racing line. So you're always going
20:50
Speaker 2: to do that, aren't you. You take the apex, you walk
20:52
Speaker 2: a little bit on the apex so they can't cut
20:54
Speaker 2: back under you, and then you run out to the
20:57
Speaker 2: exit curb and you close off that avenue so they
20:59
Speaker 2: can't nip under you for the next next corner either.
21:03
Speaker 2: It's just logical racecraft. And I think at that point
21:08
Speaker 2: Lando was getting a little bit desperate, a little bit flustered.
21:11
Speaker 2: Time was running out, his tire advantage was diminishing because
21:14
Speaker 2: he'd been in the slipstream and whatever for a few laps,
21:17
Speaker 2: tires were likely overheating. All of that got on top
21:20
Speaker 2: of him and he made a poor choice and then
21:22
Speaker 2: compounded that by not doing either one of two things.
21:26
Speaker 2: And he could have done either of these in my opinion,
21:28
Speaker 2: and it probably would have been okay. The first is
21:30
Speaker 2: just get on with it and go, because if you
21:33
Speaker 2: look at him as he came on to the front straight,
21:34
Speaker 2: he was only marginally aheaded, almost like he was about
21:37
Speaker 2: to see the place back, and then he didn't. He
21:39
Speaker 2: went very aggressive into turn one, which is probably something
21:41
Speaker 2: he should have done off the start, but he went
21:45
Speaker 2: very aggressive into turn one. The other thing he should
21:47
Speaker 2: have done is immediately see the space, see the place
21:54
Speaker 2: and have another go, because if he's got the tire advantage,
21:58
Speaker 2: maybe he's got a chance to make the past stick.
22:00
Speaker 2: Maybe Max gets the penalty because maybe then the officials,
22:04
Speaker 2: rather than judging Lando to have gained advantage by leaving
22:08
Speaker 2: the track, they go the other way and team that
22:10
Speaker 2: Max gained an advantage by not losing a position by going
22:12
Speaker 2: off track. I think by doing either one of those things,
22:17
Speaker 2: he potentially would have got the pass. Obviously, this is
22:19
Speaker 2: living in hindsight and it's difficult to do in the
22:21
Speaker 2: car at the time. But if I was to a
22:23
Speaker 2: portion blame or who was more in the wrong on balance,
22:28
Speaker 2: I think the steward's got it correct.
22:31
Speaker 1: I think that's fair. The way I sort of look
22:34
Speaker 1: at it is that I don't think it would have
22:36
Speaker 1: been right for Norris to keep the position, and that's
22:38
Speaker 1: why I kind of side with the Steward's interpretation in
22:42
Speaker 1: a broad sense. But for me, Max's defense cutting off
22:47
Speaker 1: the apex taking the full width of the track is
22:49
Speaker 1: only valid if he can stay on the track, and
22:52
Speaker 1: I think that's the difference for me. I think there's
22:53
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with you know, opening up the steely,
22:56
Speaker 1: open up steering, releasing the brakes, making sure you get
22:58
Speaker 1: to that apex first, somewhat artificially in a way you
23:01
Speaker 1: wouldn't if you were on your own at that corner,
23:03
Speaker 1: so long as you can keep yourself on the track,
23:05
Speaker 1: because then that is a genuine defense. You can claim
23:07
Speaker 1: the corner, you get the abbe ex first, and you
23:09
Speaker 1: also finish on the track. I think for me it
23:11
Speaker 1: changes a little bit the fact that he couldn't keep
23:13
Speaker 1: himself on the track, even though it was very close
23:15
Speaker 1: call fine Margins, he was close to staying on the track.
23:18
Speaker 1: That for me then opens that question, well, is that
23:22
Speaker 1: defense legitimate. It's almost like, really just a mistake. He's
23:24
Speaker 1: made an error, and that should then entitle Norris to
23:27
Speaker 1: have been able to make that pass. I do then
23:30
Speaker 1: see the argument though that Norris should have been probably
23:32
Speaker 1: wiser to the fact that he was battling Maxistaff and
23:34
Speaker 1: this was going to happen. After all, he did battle
23:36
Speaker 1: Max for probably a similar number of laps. Actually, they'd
23:38
Speaker 1: have to go back and have a look in Austria
23:40
Speaker 1: and saw almost the full toolkit of Maxwistaff and defensive
23:43
Speaker 1: techniques there, and should have known that there was going
23:45
Speaker 1: to be more coming for him this weekend. So in
23:48
Speaker 1: that sense I think unbalanced. It again wouldn't have felt
23:50
Speaker 1: right for Norris to have simply got past there, considering
23:53
Speaker 1: he didn't do enough to capitalize on the fact that
23:55
Speaker 1: Verstappen slightly overreached. But for me, there's a little bit
23:59
Speaker 1: of blame on both sides. Stwar's kind of acknowledged that,
24:01
Speaker 1: which I thought was interesting, but still gave the penalty
24:03
Speaker 1: to Norris. I would say though, that the five second penalty,
24:05
Speaker 1: which is less than you normally get for these kinds
24:08
Speaker 1: of incidance, because remember this was happening a lot last
24:10
Speaker 1: year where drivers were overtaking off the track. I think
24:12
Speaker 1: George Russell did it a couple of times in fact,
24:14
Speaker 1: But if they knew they could make a five second gap,
24:17
Speaker 1: then essentially the penalty was worthless, and that's why this
24:19
Speaker 1: year it's been increased to ten seconds. By reducing it
24:21
Speaker 1: back to five for this incident, it's almost like the
24:23
Speaker 1: Steward's going, well, we're going to give you a chance
24:25
Speaker 1: to just do what you would have done last year,
24:26
Speaker 1: and that way nothing happens. But he fell short, but
24:29
Speaker 1: I think nine tenths of a second, so he had
24:33
Speaker 1: his chance, I guess, so maybe actually, on balance, yeah,
24:35
Speaker 1: I really do agree with the Stewart's decision more than
24:37
Speaker 1: I even thought, because kind of gave a chance for
24:39
Speaker 1: everyone to get something out of it, and in the
24:41
Speaker 1: end Max got that little bit extra out of it
24:43
Speaker 1: because he did abide that bit closer by the rules
24:46
Speaker 1: as they're ridden at the moment. So I think, on
24:49
Speaker 1: balance it does kind of make sense. But the result, Matt,
24:52
Speaker 1: is that Max outscored Land over the course of the
24:54
Speaker 1: weekend by five points a couple in the Sprint and
24:57
Speaker 1: then three more in the Grand Prix. That's now fifty
25:00
Speaker 1: seven points between them with five rounds remaining. That's eleven
25:03
Speaker 1: point four points per round turnaround required for Norris to
25:06
Speaker 1: win the championship. That feels quite distant.
25:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's basically Lando winning every race and max
25:14
Speaker 2: not being on the podium. Effectively, i'd have to actually
25:17
Speaker 2: really go in and crunch numbers, but at a very
25:21
Speaker 2: rough level. That's kind of that great now as that
25:24
Speaker 2: gap to the point where I'm pretty confident in saying
25:27
Speaker 2: that Maximstappan is going to win the championship or at
25:29
Speaker 2: least seal the championship in Las Vegas.
25:31
Speaker 1: Vegas.
25:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think this is going to go to
25:32
Speaker 2: the wire. He's got fifty seven points, so provided he
25:36
Speaker 2: doesn't hemorrhage points in Mexico or Brazil, which are venues
25:40
Speaker 2: that Red Bull has typically gone well gone well at,
25:44
Speaker 2: we'll see, We'll see what happens. But I just I
25:47
Speaker 2: can't see him getting beaten purely because Red Bull also
25:51
Speaker 2: seems to have found something in the United States. Whatever
25:54
Speaker 2: upgrade they had on the floor, it was comparably small
25:57
Speaker 2: light right. If you look at the list of upgraded
25:58
Speaker 2: parts that Red Bull bought versus what McLaren bought, McLaren's
26:03
Speaker 2: was pretty much a full package, where where Red Bulls
26:06
Speaker 2: was a floor in a circuit specific there's one extra
26:10
Speaker 2: bit of circuit specific bit for calling I think it
26:13
Speaker 2: was the airbox. It was a pretty minimal upgrade, but
26:17
Speaker 2: whatever it did seem to resonate with certainly Max more
26:21
Speaker 2: than more than Checho and Red Bulls seemed to be
26:26
Speaker 2: in the sprint miles ahead in the race on par
26:29
Speaker 2: with McLaren So that's an interesting change in dynamic as well,
26:34
Speaker 2: given that really since arguably the Melia Romagna Grand Prix
26:39
Speaker 2: back in May. I mean, I know Max has had
26:42
Speaker 2: win since then, but really since round seven McLaren's had
26:45
Speaker 2: the run of run of things. So this is a
26:48
Speaker 2: this is an important race in that dynamic.
26:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so.
26:53
Speaker 2: It is.
26:53
Speaker 1: Like you said, there's the two elements of it. It's
26:55
Speaker 1: that Max hasn't won in a while and still didn't
26:57
Speaker 1: win this weekend, but was certainly more competitive and is
26:59
Speaker 1: the first sort of off weekend McLaren's had an off
27:03
Speaker 1: being relative yere, they're still in good edge of the podium,
27:05
Speaker 1: but off weekend McClaren's had in months. Belgian Grand Prix maybe,
27:08
Speaker 1: but then Oscar was riddy in contention for the victory there,
27:11
Speaker 1: you'd have to go back all the way to I
27:13
Speaker 1: don't even know it, maybe past Austria. Before Austria, Yeah,
27:17
Speaker 1: it's been a long time since McLaren has sort of
27:19
Speaker 1: looked relatively unconvincing. I've done some mats for you, though,
27:22
Speaker 1: Just to go back half a step, Norris would need
27:24
Speaker 1: to win all five remaining Grand Prix with the bonus
27:26
Speaker 1: point for fastest lap and with vistap and finishing off
27:29
Speaker 1: the podium at every race to get the job done.
27:31
Speaker 1: I think that would include winds sprint races as well.
27:34
Speaker 1: Eleven point four points per round. That is a big
27:37
Speaker 1: mountain to climb. But Matt, it wouldn't even make the
27:40
Speaker 1: top five greatest comebacks. I've written this with Fox Sports Today,
27:43
Speaker 1: greatest comeback. I think we've talked about this briefly in
27:45
Speaker 1: previous episodes. Kimy Rerichen in two thousand and seven needed
27:48
Speaker 1: to score This is corrected for today's points as well
27:50
Speaker 1: as we can compare them twenty one point twenty five
27:53
Speaker 1: points per round in the last two rounds to beat
27:55
Speaker 1: Lewis Hamilton that title. Okay, there's asterisks over James Hard
27:58
Speaker 1: overcoming Nicki Lauder obvious, but you had to overcome fifteen
28:02
Speaker 1: points seven points per round over the last three Grand Prix.
28:05
Speaker 1: That was after pick you that it came back. I
28:06
Speaker 1: guess if you want to balance that out, Alam Pross
28:08
Speaker 1: defeated Nigel Manton nineteen eighty six fifteen point three points
28:11
Speaker 1: per round. Over the last two Grand Prix Pik Over
28:14
Speaker 1: Prost in eighty three, thirteen points per round, and even
28:17
Speaker 1: Fashion Medal defeating Fernando Alonso in twenty ten twelve and
28:20
Speaker 1: a half points per round to close that one out,
28:23
Speaker 1: and then you would get to Lando Norris if he
28:25
Speaker 1: would have beat Max Vistapan to the championship.
28:27
Speaker 2: That's some fabulous, fabulous work there, Michael. I my hat
28:33
Speaker 2: off to you because I love stuff like that, and
28:35
Speaker 2: that's yeah, yeah, I'm just thinking back to some of
28:39
Speaker 2: those championships and you don't realize it at the time,
28:42
Speaker 2: particularly that the raichen And Championship, because you had that
28:45
Speaker 2: the bitterness of what was happening at McLaren's sort of
28:48
Speaker 2: distracted you from just what Rykenan was doing. But it's yeah,
28:52
Speaker 2: I mean, it's I guess it's still game on based
28:55
Speaker 2: on those numbers, me having just said he's going to
28:59
Speaker 2: win it in Las Vegas. But yeah, I've roll on Mexico.
29:04
Speaker 2: If only it were We're oh, it is this.
29:10
Speaker 1: Okay? Matt, Let's have a look at the constructors championship.
29:13
Speaker 1: Now you mentioned there, Red Bull seems like it's found
29:15
Speaker 1: something here. But while we might say the driver's championship
29:19
Speaker 1: picture is sort of fading away, notwithstanding that there have
29:21
Speaker 1: been bigger comebacks in for midda one history, the constructor's
29:24
Speaker 1: championship picture is tightening considerably, partly because McLaren had a
29:27
Speaker 1: somewhat unconvincing weekend, partly though, because Ferrari had such a
29:31
Speaker 1: good weekend a one two finish. Admittedly did take until
29:34
Speaker 1: Sunday for the team to really grab that headline result,
29:36
Speaker 1: but if you look back at all the competitive sessions
29:39
Speaker 1: was really there or thereabouts, but circumstances meant that it
29:42
Speaker 1: never really got the big result when you have to
29:44
Speaker 1: only have to look at Carlos Science's fast finish to
29:46
Speaker 1: the sprint, having lost so much time battling Charlotte Clair
29:49
Speaker 1: to realize actually it probably was sprint winning pace in
29:52
Speaker 1: that car, had it just worked a little smoother for
29:54
Speaker 1: the team. Red Bull is forty points behind McLaren. Ferrari
29:58
Speaker 1: is only eight points behind Red Bull Racing. Now, this
30:02
Speaker 1: was a really big weekend, not just for the points,
30:04
Speaker 1: but also I guess for validation of what Carlor Science
30:07
Speaker 1: in particular has been saying, which is that if the
30:09
Speaker 1: upgrades the team has brought since the mid season break,
30:13
Speaker 1: we're going to work because the team had been so
30:15
Speaker 1: competitive the last four weeks, they'd have to work here
30:17
Speaker 1: for them to be sustainable, for them to say, actually
30:20
Speaker 1: we are back in this. It doesn't get more emphatic
30:23
Speaker 1: than a one two finish for the upgrades. As a verification,
30:26
Speaker 1: Does it mean the team is back in it? Do
30:28
Speaker 1: you feel like we've seen enough here? And to go
30:31
Speaker 1: to the question really on Charlotte Claire's lips, if not
30:34
Speaker 1: anyone else's, can it win a Constructors Championship?
30:38
Speaker 2: No? And the reason I say that is just that
30:46
Speaker 2: Ferrari shows these flashes of brilliance and it has done
30:50
Speaker 2: for many years really, even going back to you when
30:56
Speaker 2: Charlote Claire was battling Max for the championship, and even
31:00
Speaker 2: before that when Fernando Alonso was there and slashin Vettel.
31:03
Speaker 2: It shows these moments of brilliance, but for whatever reason,
31:05
Speaker 2: it can't sustain them. So you'll see these headline results
31:08
Speaker 2: and it will hold on for a race or two
31:11
Speaker 2: and then it'll drop the ball somewhere, and we've seen
31:13
Speaker 2: that already this year. You know that there've been standout
31:16
Speaker 2: performances Monaco Springs to mind, Melbourne did well to capitalize
31:21
Speaker 2: with Carlos, but there's been other events where it's been
31:25
Speaker 2: absolutely nowhere. So suggesting that Ferrari is now a championship
31:31
Speaker 2: contender based on the increased performance of one event, I
31:38
Speaker 2: think that's that's judging it a little bit too early. Also,
31:44
Speaker 2: we're going to a circuit that's a little bit unusual
31:46
Speaker 2: in Mexico and then again in Brazil and then again
31:51
Speaker 2: in Las Vegas. We're not going back to a circuit
31:54
Speaker 2: like Cota for I mean arguably into l Abu Dhabi,
31:57
Speaker 2: So we can't put the horse before the cart in
32:03
Speaker 2: that aspect. It was a fabulous weekend for Ferrari, absolutely
32:06
Speaker 2: no doubt. You know, it made a significant inroad on
32:11
Speaker 2: Red Ball, and Red Bull's performance wasn't especially brilliant if
32:16
Speaker 2: you actually look at the number of points that scored,
32:18
Speaker 2: it was only sort of roughly on average with what
32:19
Speaker 2: it was doing through the middle part of the year. Conversely,
32:22
Speaker 2: McLaren's is only sort of marginally below what it's been
32:25
Speaker 2: doing on average all year or for the most part
32:27
Speaker 2: of the year, certainly since you know, since sort of
32:30
Speaker 2: Japan or thereabouts. So Ferrari made a huge step in Austin,
32:36
Speaker 2: but it's one step. You know, there's going to be
32:39
Speaker 2: times where Mclarenal's still the points or Red Bull still
32:42
Speaker 2: the points. That's the EBB and follow that you see
32:45
Speaker 2: among those top three teams, and then you've got the
32:47
Speaker 2: Mercedes wild card in there. You know, they have the
32:49
Speaker 2: odd flash weekends. You think of the British Grand Prix
32:53
Speaker 2: where they just got it right, a couple of others
32:55
Speaker 2: as well. And it's not just as simple as Ferrari's
32:59
Speaker 2: got better. It is now good, and therefore it is
33:01
Speaker 2: now a championship contender. It's how Ferrari's form on any
33:06
Speaker 2: given weekend mixers with the form of the other three
33:09
Speaker 2: potential contenders two most serious but most three other contenders
33:15
Speaker 2: in terms of what it's potentially is like. And on
33:18
Speaker 2: the balance, it hasn't been consistent enough to score the
33:21
Speaker 2: points it needs to overhaul McLaren. I think it can
33:25
Speaker 2: get Red Bull, and that's more a commentary, not necessarily
33:30
Speaker 2: a Red Bull or Ferrari. That's more a commentary of
33:32
Speaker 2: Sergeo Perez. But I don't think it will get it
33:37
Speaker 2: will get McLaren because what's it need? Forty eight points?
33:41
Speaker 2: What's your championship? Say about that? Has that ever been
33:44
Speaker 2: done before?
33:44
Speaker 1: No, I'd have to have a Lot'd have to do
33:46
Speaker 1: a new one. About the teams. Let's look at it ourselves.
33:48
Speaker 2: All that praise I gave you before, gone gone, that.
33:53
Speaker 1: Is more than one week ends with a point of
33:55
Speaker 1: the team's championship. So you've got to quate that to
33:57
Speaker 1: more than twenty five points as a driver, I suppose,
34:00
Speaker 1: if you want to put that into a slightly different context.
34:02
Speaker 1: So not unbelievable with five rounds to go, but it
34:04
Speaker 1: would need to show a longer run of impressive perform
34:08
Speaker 1: before we consider that. But Red Bull Racing certainly looks vulnerable, right.
34:11
Speaker 1: Eight points is nothing in the constructors championship, And like
34:14
Speaker 1: you say, Sergio Perez is really the defining factor here.
34:18
Speaker 1: Another deeply underwhelming weekend. Didn't score in the sprint, qualified tenth,
34:23
Speaker 1: finished seventh, finished closer to Liam Lawson behind him than
34:27
Speaker 1: Max was Staffing ahead of him. Read into that what
34:29
Speaker 1: you would like, But this is now five round since
34:33
Speaker 1: the mid season break. Remember this was originally sort of
34:36
Speaker 1: like a little bit of a vote of confidence in
34:39
Speaker 1: Peris to turn things around at those tracks that he's
34:41
Speaker 1: historically done well out well. He did that at one
34:43
Speaker 1: in Azerbaijan, a genuinely good weekend for him. He deserves
34:46
Speaker 1: credit for that. They crashed out of it the last
34:49
Speaker 1: couple of laps, but let's ignore that for a second.
34:51
Speaker 1: But at the other tracks, really has been performing pretty
34:54
Speaker 1: much as he has all year. There hasn't been a
34:56
Speaker 1: notable uplift in performances this weekend. Okay, he didn't have
34:59
Speaker 1: the full upgrades available a Red Bull racing, but he
35:01
Speaker 1: finished forty odd seconds behind Max with staff and I
35:04
Speaker 1: don't think the upgrade was worth forty seconds of race time.
35:06
Speaker 1: What's that equate to three quarters of a second to
35:09
Speaker 1: lap over the course of the race, more or less
35:11
Speaker 1: like that would be a significant upgrade if that's what
35:13
Speaker 1: it was. And you know, okay, he was stuck in traffic,
35:15
Speaker 1: but Max also as Battlinglando at the end. I think
35:18
Speaker 1: it's fair to say he didn't have a great race,
35:20
Speaker 1: but Liam Lawson did because that is the comparison element
35:23
Speaker 1: here is come back in pretty much explicitly a shootout
35:26
Speaker 1: for a chance to replace Sergio Perez. Started nineteenth, finished
35:30
Speaker 1: in the points, really solid race, finished ahead of his
35:33
Speaker 1: team at Yuki Snoda. Okay, the strategy was different, but
35:35
Speaker 1: nonetheless really solid performance from him. There must be ahead
35:40
Speaker 1: of Sergio Perez's home Grand Prix this weekend, a massive,
35:44
Speaker 1: massive ratcheting up of pressure because this time last year,
35:47
Speaker 1: if we compare his slumps here on ear, he was
35:49
Speaker 1: starting to sort of get a little bit better enough
35:51
Speaker 1: that Red Bull Racing felt like, okay, we could be
35:53
Speaker 1: a bit confident taking him the next year. There just
35:55
Speaker 1: aren't any signs of that at the moment.
35:57
Speaker 2: It's really not and it's a massive because it seems
36:03
Speaker 2: harsh and brutal to say this, but Sergio Peis is
36:06
Speaker 2: going to lose Red Bull Racing in the Constructors World
36:08
Speaker 2: Championship and with that comes a significant amount of money,
36:12
Speaker 2: far more money than what Sergo Peis is bringing to
36:15
Speaker 2: the team. So at the moment he is a liability
36:18
Speaker 2: to Red Bull Racing because yes, he brings Mexican money
36:22
Speaker 2: in the way of is it Claro or whatever it is,
36:26
Speaker 2: telmex and whatever, you know, you're talking prize money for
36:30
Speaker 2: winning the World Championship, the bragging rights, everything else that
36:34
Speaker 2: comes with the prestige of winning that competition. So there's
36:38
Speaker 2: there's a huge amount riding on Sergio Perez and he's
36:43
Speaker 2: shown really since the middle part of last year that
36:49
Speaker 2: he's just not the man for the job the very
36:52
Speaker 2: start of last and I think this even goes back
36:54
Speaker 2: to Miami last year where he got absolutely decimated by
36:57
Speaker 2: Max and it destroyed his confidence and he's never really recovered.
36:59
Speaker 2: He's never been the same driver since a little bit
37:02
Speaker 2: like Daniel Riccardo once he left for a Bulls. Never
37:04
Speaker 2: the same driver since the Miami Grand Prix. And it's
37:08
Speaker 2: bizarre that you can pinpoint it this specifically that he
37:13
Speaker 2: got so comprehensively out driven in the same car. Now,
37:18
Speaker 2: it's just a case of what does rebull do as
37:22
Speaker 2: an alternative? Are there alternatives out there? And that's why
37:24
Speaker 2: we're in this position with Daniel Ricardo obviously, because they
37:27
Speaker 2: thought Daniel might be the option. Turned out he couldn't
37:32
Speaker 2: do a better job, or a consistently good enough job
37:35
Speaker 2: to convince Christian Horner and Helmet Marco. Maybe it's curious
37:39
Speaker 2: that Yuki's not whose name is Enter the conversation now
37:41
Speaker 2: and you've got a wonder is that because Yuki is
37:43
Speaker 2: genuinely being considered for that drive or is it designed
37:48
Speaker 2: to add pressure. Conversely, you know you've got Landa Liam
37:51
Speaker 2: Lawson in that conversation as well. There's now talk of
37:54
Speaker 2: Franco colo Pinto coming in. So now you're even starting
37:57
Speaker 2: to wind this up a little bit further where Liam
37:59
Speaker 2: laws And hypothetically goes to Red Bull Racing and then
38:02
Speaker 2: Franco Colopinto maybe comes into be next year. I mean,
38:06
Speaker 2: as I said before, he looks properly good. And then
38:09
Speaker 2: you've got Yukisnoda hanging on for twenty five, probably off
38:13
Speaker 2: to Astamart for twenty six with Honda opens the door
38:16
Speaker 2: potentially for Isaac Hadja or Avid Limladd off the back
38:21
Speaker 2: of him. So he's got this production line coming and
38:23
Speaker 2: this is everything that Red Bull has been working towards
38:27
Speaker 2: over the last six or eight months that Daniel fell
38:30
Speaker 2: victim of in Singapore. Yes, his performances weren't good enough,
38:34
Speaker 2: but it wasn't purely because of performance. It was because
38:37
Speaker 2: red Bull has a problem now, but it has a
38:40
Speaker 2: problem for next year that it now has an opportunity
38:41
Speaker 2: to solve that it didn't before. And it also has
38:44
Speaker 2: a possibility to cover off a risk, be that Maxi
38:47
Speaker 2: staff in choosing to retire or leave the team, or
38:49
Speaker 2: whatever it might be. It has an opportunity to cover
38:52
Speaker 2: off that risk, minimal as it may be or great
38:55
Speaker 2: as it may be, by making some of these changes.
38:57
Speaker 2: Now it's on the front foot going forward, which it's
39:00
Speaker 2: been on the back foot. The reasons in this pursuit
39:02
Speaker 2: is because it's been on the back foot for a
39:03
Speaker 2: long time.
39:05
Speaker 1: There's an interesting question, it's completely hypothetical and impossible to answer,
39:10
Speaker 1: but whether Red Bull Racing has made a mistake by
39:13
Speaker 1: not putting Daniel in the car at the mid season break.
39:15
Speaker 1: Now a lot we've talked about this at length. You
39:17
Speaker 1: can go back and listen to our Daniel Riccardo episodes
39:19
Speaker 1: around the break, and then obviously once he was dropped,
39:22
Speaker 1: there are many reasons why they chose not to. It
39:24
Speaker 1: was the inconsistency of that first quarter of the season
39:27
Speaker 1: that outweighed his relatively good form in a couple of
39:29
Speaker 1: months before the mid season break, evidently, and then there
39:32
Speaker 1: was some supplementary decision making. Let's say that ultimately forced
39:36
Speaker 1: the team's hand with situation. We are the team gambled
39:40
Speaker 1: on Pairs turning his form around. That's obviously not paid off.
39:43
Speaker 1: I see value in the argument that if you were
39:45
Speaker 1: Christian Horner, it might look worse to have made a
39:49
Speaker 1: fairly abrupt chain shacking a driver he'd side only a
39:51
Speaker 1: few months earlier, and then still finished second or third
39:53
Speaker 1: in the Constructors Championship, because then you own that a
39:56
Speaker 1: little bit more than perhaps I guess, let's say the
39:58
Speaker 1: status quo of Sergio Pairs losing it for you and
40:00
Speaker 1: then you can drop at the end of the year.
40:02
Speaker 1: But man, it looks sort of silly in retrospect not
40:04
Speaker 1: to have rolled the dice. Considering this team's only going
40:07
Speaker 1: in one direction on the championship table. It almost it's
40:10
Speaker 1: almost inevitable it's going to finish third. I think Ferrari
40:13
Speaker 1: needs one more good race for us to feel like
40:15
Speaker 1: it can do enough to overhaul it, even if it's
40:17
Speaker 1: not a regular victory contender. Just because Sergio Perry's is
40:20
Speaker 1: always behind both Forrari drivers, inevitably is behind both Forrari drivers,
40:24
Speaker 1: if not also behind Mercedes drivers, which just makes that
40:27
Speaker 1: gap that Deltaus Christian Horner described it unsustainable. So that's
40:31
Speaker 1: sort of one of those great fe hypotheticals. I think
40:34
Speaker 1: that now is genuinely obviously impossible to answer, but it
40:37
Speaker 1: does just make you think. I think we need to
40:39
Speaker 1: get to the end of the year, particularly if you're
40:40
Speaker 1: a red full employees missing a couple of couple of
40:43
Speaker 1: dollars in your championship bonus paypack at the end of
40:45
Speaker 1: the year about what could have been. But Matt, that's
40:48
Speaker 1: the championship picture as it is on paper. Let's talk
40:51
Speaker 1: about the alternative championship now, because that is really heating up.
40:54
Speaker 1: Probably I don't have the championship table in front of me.
40:57
Speaker 2: Probably that no one needs to know the championship table
40:59
Speaker 2: at this point because that kind of ruins the surprise.
41:03
Speaker 2: Although if you do go back through the episodes you
41:05
Speaker 2: can probably figure it out. We might just randomly change
41:08
Speaker 2: it in between, just to make it fun. Because there
41:10
Speaker 2: are no rules for this. This is a glorious thing
41:12
Speaker 2: about the alternative Championship. We make it up as we
41:14
Speaker 2: go along. So I'll kick things off and I'm going
41:18
Speaker 2: to do in a pretty predictable, mundane sort of way.
41:22
Speaker 2: Liam Lawson, how can you not give the kids some points.
41:26
Speaker 2: I couldn't decide how many to give him, so I
41:28
Speaker 2: gave him one for every position that he made up
41:30
Speaker 2: on in the race. I gave him ten points.
41:32
Speaker 1: Nice.
41:33
Speaker 2: I like that. I thought that was I couldn't. I
41:36
Speaker 2: can't make that funny. I'm trying. I can't think of
41:39
Speaker 2: a joke for it.
41:40
Speaker 1: That's okay. I think it's as well deserved. I think
41:42
Speaker 1: he deserves credit, and why not give him credit in
41:45
Speaker 1: this alternative championship. I'm going to start, as his tradition
41:48
Speaker 1: by taking some points away from someone three points off
41:52
Speaker 1: max Forstaffen. That's the difference between the podium and fourth place.
41:55
Speaker 1: Not for the move that he did this weekend. As
41:57
Speaker 1: we've said, I sort of am happy with where that
41:59
Speaker 1: all ended up, but for saying after the race that
42:01
Speaker 1: Lando Norris should just cop the penalty like he did
42:04
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen when he lost third to Kimmy Raichen.
42:06
Speaker 1: But he neglected Matt to mention what he said in
42:09
Speaker 1: his post race comments in that year. These stupid decisions
42:12
Speaker 1: really kill the sport. They kill the race. It's not
42:15
Speaker 1: good for the crowd. I hope next to you nobody
42:17
Speaker 1: comes because the sport like this does not make sense.
42:21
Speaker 1: I don't think that's copying it in the way he
42:24
Speaker 1: anticipated Lando Norris would. So it's three points off to
42:28
Speaker 1: Max for not remembering that key fact.
42:31
Speaker 2: So what you're saying is that Lando really should have
42:32
Speaker 2: teed off a bit harder than he. I think that's
42:36
Speaker 2: the that's the message there. So we just we'll pass
42:39
Speaker 2: that one on to McLaren. Let Land off the leash
42:42
Speaker 2: a bit more so he can go full Max. So
42:47
Speaker 2: speaking of people at McLaren, this isn't Tigler that McLain.
42:50
Speaker 2: But I'm just going to single out teen prs in general,
42:55
Speaker 2: given what's happened over the last week and some of
42:58
Speaker 2: the statements that teams have made and then had to
42:59
Speaker 2: go back. I'm going to take one hundred points away
43:01
Speaker 2: from every PR person the INFT lane. Okay, because as journalists,
43:07
Speaker 2: we understand that we play this wonderful game with the
43:10
Speaker 2: sport and the teams and the drivers and everything else.
43:14
Speaker 2: We ask a question, they try and work out what
43:17
Speaker 2: we're getting at, and we dance this Mary dance, and
43:20
Speaker 2: they'll try and deny everything as much as they possibly can.
43:23
Speaker 2: They don't want to give us an opening and so
43:25
Speaker 2: they'll use clever language or an opening in a question
43:31
Speaker 2: to use that as there you've asked specifically about this.
43:34
Speaker 2: I answered you specifically about this, not this thing that
43:37
Speaker 2: you were related to, but you specifically Playing those games
43:40
Speaker 2: is fair, But you don't outright live because as soon
43:42
Speaker 2: as you do that, you break all trust in the
43:45
Speaker 2: paddic And as soon as you do that, as soon
43:47
Speaker 2: as we can't trust what we're being told, all we're
43:51
Speaker 2: doing is writing speculation, in which case you open the
43:54
Speaker 2: floodgates to all sorts of nonsense. So there needs to
43:57
Speaker 2: be this underlying level of trust. This is a very
44:02
Speaker 2: very journalist gripe, but when PR people start lying, it's
44:07
Speaker 2: a massive problem. So I'm taking one hundred points off
44:09
Speaker 2: everyone in pit lane, and so it's a lesson to them.
44:11
Speaker 1: All that's good. I'm going to end with my own
44:12
Speaker 1: personal hobby horse scripe, so I don't feel bad about that.
44:16
Speaker 1: I feel like maybe's the episode for it. But first
44:18
Speaker 1: I'm going to take ten points off the Circuit of
44:20
Speaker 1: the Americas. They do a wonderful job down there. It's
44:22
Speaker 1: great racetrack. It's become one of the ten pole events
44:25
Speaker 1: of the calendar, not just because in the United States
44:27
Speaker 1: it's genuinely good one. But for upon realizing that Daniel
44:31
Speaker 1: Ricardo really wasn't going to turn up, not even in
44:34
Speaker 1: a driving capacity, but in a non driving capacity, organize
44:37
Speaker 1: what I can only describe as a condolences book. People
44:42
Speaker 1: could sign their well wishes to our dearly departed friend,
44:45
Speaker 1: despite the fact Matt he's not dead.
44:49
Speaker 2: He ain't dead yet. Reminds me of a Terry Pratchett loan.
44:55
Speaker 2: But yeah, he's just resting. As I switched seamlessly into Python.
45:04
Speaker 2: That's good.
45:05
Speaker 1: I like that. Yeah.
45:06
Speaker 2: I did see that book on social media and I thought, hmm, yeah,
45:11
Speaker 2: because it wasn't even just in the paddock.
45:13
Speaker 1: Yes, I couldn't tell exactly where it was, but it
45:16
Speaker 1: looked like it was out in.
45:17
Speaker 2: The general spectator area. If someone out there does know,
45:20
Speaker 2: please please let us know, because you occasionally get these books,
45:26
Speaker 2: you know, the say congratulations, thanks, whatever it might be.
45:30
Speaker 2: I seem to remember there was one for Bernie back
45:32
Speaker 2: in the day, and there's been a few others. I remember,
45:37
Speaker 2: sig anyone in Singapore. I can't remember who FORO. It's
45:43
Speaker 2: been a long time I've slept since then. My memory
45:45
Speaker 2: is atrocious. But yes, it was just a bit weird,
45:50
Speaker 2: wasn't it. I mean, he's thirty five, he's just he's
45:54
Speaker 2: just hung up the helmet from a career that's earned
45:57
Speaker 2: him how many millions of dollars and one eight grand prix.
46:01
Speaker 2: I mean, we shouldn't feel sorry for the guy.
46:03
Speaker 1: His life's only just started, that's it.
46:05
Speaker 2: And he's had one hell of a life thus far.
46:08
Speaker 2: That the life that millions and millions and millions of
46:11
Speaker 2: people would give their right leg for. Probably not the
46:16
Speaker 2: right leg that you want to give, because you know
46:18
Speaker 2: that's a throstle pedal leg. You need that one. But
46:21
Speaker 2: you get my point?
46:24
Speaker 1: Very good? All right, bring it home and then I'll
46:26
Speaker 1: wrap it up.
46:29
Speaker 2: None of mine are funny. I'm disappointed to take it.
46:32
Speaker 2: You know what. I was going to take five points
46:34
Speaker 2: off the stewards, but you know I'm going to take
46:36
Speaker 2: ten points off myself for not being funny.
46:37
Speaker 1: Oh, you've entered the championship.
46:40
Speaker 2: I'm now minus ten points for not being funny.
46:44
Speaker 1: Probably puts you in the top three, I imagine.
46:50
Speaker 2: Do I not need to give myself ten points because
46:51
Speaker 2: this turned out to me unintentionally funny?
46:54
Speaker 1: I like it. That's okay, but yeah.
46:56
Speaker 2: So that the Stewards have got away with one again
47:01
Speaker 2: because I've penalized myself.
47:02
Speaker 1: That's good.
47:03
Speaker 2: I've done what Lando should have done and penalized myself.
47:08
Speaker 1: Very good. I like that. All right. This is my
47:10
Speaker 1: own personal hobby horse cry, but I'm taking one hundred
47:12
Speaker 1: points off anyone who uses the phrase in response to
47:16
Speaker 1: any Steward's investigations let them race, because we tried that
47:20
Speaker 1: Matt in twenty twenty one and everyone hated it. Do
47:24
Speaker 1: you remember Max for staff and taking Lewis Hamilton off
47:26
Speaker 1: the track in Brazil and then not being penalized because
47:30
Speaker 1: let them race. A bunch of bad cases of driving
47:34
Speaker 1: incidents happened that year, and not just that year. It
47:36
Speaker 1: was a multi year let them race situation, and it
47:39
Speaker 1: was not optimal to use a Formula one phrase. That's
47:42
Speaker 1: why we've come up with the driving guidelines. You can look,
47:44
Speaker 1: you have your opinions on the driving guidelines. Clearly they
47:46
Speaker 1: maybe are not working perfectly, but it's better to have
47:49
Speaker 1: some rules than no rules at all, because it's just
47:53
Speaker 1: astounding how short term the paddock's memory is that we
47:56
Speaker 1: could be thinking of going back to a situation where
47:58
Speaker 1: it's pretty much no regulations because we've done it before.
48:01
Speaker 1: In fact, it was only three years ago and it
48:04
Speaker 1: wasn't great. So one hundred points off to anyone who
48:06
Speaker 1: dares use that phrase as if it's some golden era
48:09
Speaker 1: of Formula One, because while the championship was a very
48:11
Speaker 1: dramatic at conclusion, it was no gold in Europe. Have you, Adam, have.
48:16
Speaker 3: You ever seen the NASCAR racing cota particularly let them
48:21
Speaker 3: race right, Imagine that in Formula One with open wheelers,
48:24
Speaker 3: where they're just spearing cars anywhere there's a bit of
48:26
Speaker 3: time ac.
48:29
Speaker 2: Like that would turn into like an absolute helicopter crash
48:32
Speaker 2: in no time.
48:33
Speaker 1: Yes, maybe to get it out of the system, we
48:34
Speaker 1: can just have one race and they remind everybody that
48:37
Speaker 1: it's no good. Maybe that's the selection.
48:39
Speaker 2: Maybe we should introduce that testing, make testing more interesting.
48:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, while you've wonder that, that's all the time
48:46
Speaker 1: we've got for Pittalk today. Will be back next week
48:48
Speaker 1: to wrap up all the action from Mexico City. You
48:50
Speaker 1: can subscribe to Pittalk where you get your favorite podcast.
48:53
Speaker 1: You can leave us a rating and a review as well,
48:55
Speaker 1: and you can keep up to date with the latest
48:56
Speaker 1: step on news throughout the round at both Fox sports
48:58
Speaker 1: dot com Dot a You and speak Cafe dot Com.
49:01
Speaker 1: From Matt Coss me Michael Amanato, thank you very much
49:03
Speaker 1: for your company and we'll catch you next week.