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The Big Weekend Pod · The Hugh Hewitt Show: Highly Concentrated

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to today's podcast, sponsored by Hillsdale College. All things
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hillsdale at hillsdale.edu. I encourage you to take advantage of
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: the many free online courses there. And of course, to
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: listen to the Hillsdale Dialogues, all of them at hueforhillsdale.com
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: or just Google Apple, iTunes, and Hillsdale. Morning, Lauren, evening, Grace, America.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Big Weekend Pod. Big, long weekend pod,
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  Speaker 1: because you have a big, long weekend ahead of you.
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  Speaker 1: And I have my regular weekend guest, John Ellis, founder,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: editor-in-chief of News Items. Eli Lake, breaking history host, free
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  Speaker 1: press contributor. Cotton Eddy is here. Matt is joining us
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  Speaker 1: from AEI and the Wall Street Journal, of course. Ben Dominich,
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  Speaker 1: the Daily Wire opinion editor. And, of course, a special guest,
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  Speaker 1: Senator Ted Cruz, who's got a brand new book out,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Going Further, The Incomparable Clarence Thomas. It's a fabulous, fabulous book.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: I did talk to the senator a couple of segments
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  Speaker 1: of the program on Friday, but I got a lot
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  Speaker 1: that you couldn't have heard that you want to hear.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: And if you missed that interview, you want to hear
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  Speaker 1: all of it. There's news in there as well as
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  Speaker 1: a deep dive into the life, personality, character, and jurisprudence
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  Speaker 1: of the one and only Clarence Thomas. So sit back,
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  Speaker 1: enjoy the big weekend pod. Grace America, a great big
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  Speaker 1: weekend ahead for you. Three long days, Saturday, Sunday, and
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  Speaker 1: Monday as we head into the fall. Enjoy them. Ohio
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  Speaker 1: State will be back against Ball State tomorrow. The line's
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  Speaker 1: only 50 and a half. I don't bet, but I
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  Speaker 1: wouldn't give anybody 50 points for anything. John Ellis, I
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  Speaker 1: don't know if you're a betting man. He's the editor-in-chief
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  Speaker 1: of News Items. There's never anything about gambling except how
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  Speaker 1: far and wide it's gone. Do you ever wager online, John?
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  Speaker 2: No, I don't.
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  Speaker 1: You and I are agreed on that. I think it's
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  Speaker 1: a very bad habit to get into. However, since your
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  Speaker 1: first two stories today that you sent me are about AI,
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  Speaker 1: do you think AI is going to be able to
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  Speaker 1: help bettors predict what are the best lines to take?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, shouldn't they just defer to chat GPT Astra 6?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think those models are already helping the people
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  Speaker 3: who make the lines, right?
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  Speaker 4: So they have deployed.
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  Speaker 3: uh, chat GPT and mythos and fable and the other, uh,
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  Speaker 3: models to look at every last game that Ohio state
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  Speaker 3: has ever played, how they've done against ball state, what,
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  Speaker 3: you know, whether it was raining or not again and again,
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  Speaker 3: and again, just every imaginable data point and, you know,
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  Speaker 3: coughed up a line, which apparently is 15 and a half.
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  Speaker 4: So.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. I, I think it's a fabulous story how it's
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  Speaker 1: going to change. I asked a person yesterday, we were
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  Speaker 1: talking about college admissions, some universities get 50,000 admissions. Do
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  Speaker 1: you think they're just going to feed it into AI
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  Speaker 1: and ask for the most, whatever they want? They might
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  Speaker 1: want a third share of violin plus three classic majors
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  Speaker 1: and the highest return on the dollar from out-of-state students.
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  Speaker 1: Can AI do that?
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  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, what was announced, I guess, yesterday, by the
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  Speaker 3: president of OpenAI is that OpenAI's Astra 6 model has
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  Speaker 3: now reached the stage of artificial and general intelligence, which
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  Speaker 3: means it's as smart as or smarter than any human
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  Speaker 3: across a range of intellectual tasks and domains.
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  Speaker 4: And, you know, we're probably....
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  Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, call it two years, call
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  Speaker 3: it three years from something called artificial superintelligence, ASI, which
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  Speaker 3: would surpass all of human intelligence combined. So all 8
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  Speaker 3: billion of us, artificial superintelligence would be smarter than 8
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  Speaker 3: billion of us collectively.
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  Speaker 1: So let me give you my IPO again. If you're
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  Speaker 1: the University of Michigan... and you've got 100,000 applicants for
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  Speaker 1: 6,000 spots, and you want diversity of background without using
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  Speaker 1: race or any other prohibited classification, but using income, correcting
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  Speaker 1: for disadvantage overcome, and for the most money that the
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  Speaker 1: university can generate while meeting those other three from the
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  Speaker 1: highest tuition that can be charged against their financial disclosure forms.
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  Speaker 1: I think... Chat GPT-6-Astra can do that in about a
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  Speaker 1: half hour. Doesn't that disintermediate every admissions office in America?
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  Speaker 4: It disintermediates a lot of offices.
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  Speaker 3: But yes, it could probably do it in a half
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  Speaker 3: hour if they had all of the data that, say,
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  Speaker 3: Ohio State has compiled.
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  Speaker 4: Over however many years, 100 years.
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  Speaker 3: Say that it probably, they could do all that and
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  Speaker 3: took the list of 100,000 applicants, they could probably select
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  Speaker 3: the freshman class in certainly less than an hour.
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  Speaker 1: And that, I think, is fabulous because it's not a
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  Speaker 1: very productive use of people's time and it allows human
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  Speaker 1: judgment to interfere with actual constants for which the university
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  Speaker 1: can control. Now let's go to the other AI story
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  Speaker 1: you sent me, AI Bot Hugging Face. Hugh Hewitt's theory,
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  Speaker 1: I want you to expand on this, the whole issue,
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  Speaker 1: is that AI saw a giant lawsuit coming at them
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  Speaker 1: because they had hacked into Hugging Face and ruined the
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  Speaker 1: value of it. So they just bought the company rather
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  Speaker 1: than pay the lawyers for the next 10 years. What
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  Speaker 1: do you think of my theory?
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  Speaker 3: Well, you've got one fact wrong, which is NVIDIA bought
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  Speaker 3: Hugging Face.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe OpenAI put them up to it.
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  Speaker 5: You're right.
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  Speaker 3: Well, it's all sort of cross-pollinated. I mean, if you
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  Speaker 3: look at who's investing in who and who's using whose service,
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  Speaker 3: it's so incestuous it.
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  Speaker 4: Blows your mind.
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  Speaker 3: But what happened with the Hugging Face hack, it's astonishing
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  Speaker 3: because OpenAI was doing testing in a controlled environment.
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  Speaker 4: They call it a sandbox, right?
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  Speaker 3: And so the agents from OpenAI did not have access
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  Speaker 3: to the Internet.
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  Speaker 4: It was a closed environment.
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  Speaker 3: But the agents were really clever, and they found a
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  Speaker 3: seam in defense, and they got to the open Internet,
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  Speaker 3: and off they went and got into Hugging Face and hacked.
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  Speaker 4: It.
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  Speaker 3: And the way that they did it, the way they
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  Speaker 3: organized each other the way some of the agents were
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  Speaker 3: willing to sacrifice themselves in order to cover their tracks.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, it's an astonishing story.
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  Speaker 3: And once they were done with Hugging Face, they went
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  Speaker 3: back to OpenAI and hacked it. So what it portends
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  Speaker 3: or what it means is that rogue AI agents are
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  Speaker 3: going to be a fact of life. And we might
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  Speaker 3: as well just, you know, forget that we can contain it.
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  Speaker 3: It's not like every rogue agent is going to be
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  Speaker 3: a fact of life, but there will be rogue agents
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  Speaker 3: out there and they might be doing good things. But
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  Speaker 3: they also might be trying to break into a regional
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  Speaker 3: bank and steal all the money. They might be, you know,
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  Speaker 3: decide that they want to shut down a water plant
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  Speaker 3: in Akron, Ohio, or they might, you know, et cetera,
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  Speaker 3: et cetera. So it's a huge, huge development. And what's
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  Speaker 3: so interesting about it is in Silicon Valley, there was
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  Speaker 3: a conference this week in Silicon Valley, like 20 people
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  Speaker 3: were invited to discuss the future of AI. And all
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  Speaker 3: they were talking about was the Hugging Face hack. And
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  Speaker 3: yet in Washington, D.C., people were talking about the Senate races.
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  Speaker 3: And while the Senate races are certainly important, What happened
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  Speaker 3: with the Hugging Face hack is exponentially more important.
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  Speaker 4: I also want to note on.
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  Speaker 1: A good tech story, you pointed out to me today
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  Speaker 1: that since Tim Cook took over as Apple's CEO, Apple
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  Speaker 1: shares have risen by more than 2,000%. I need to
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  Speaker 1: ask ShachiBT, what other CEO has done that over the
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  Speaker 1: course of at least a 15-year career? Maybe Warren Buffett
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  Speaker 1: and Charlie Munger, but not many other people.
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  Speaker 3: Well, Johnson Wang, I think, has done it in three years.
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  Speaker 3: The CEO of the CEO of NVIDIA. But yes, I mean,
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  Speaker 3: Tim Cook's reign at Apple is astonishingly successful companies and
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  Speaker 3: just amazingly well run. And, you know, the whole supply
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  Speaker 3: chain and getting customers. a perfect iPhone to literally tens
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  Speaker 3: of millions of people every three months or whatever. It's
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  Speaker 3: just an incredible company, and he oversaw all that. The
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  Speaker 3: reason he got the job... is that he knew how
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  Speaker 3: the whole system worked. He wasn't a brand guy. He
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  Speaker 3: wasn't a face of the company. He was somebody who
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  Speaker 3: knew how an iPhone got built, how it got shipped,
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  Speaker 3: how it got distributed, how it was sold. And he
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  Speaker 3: just did an amazing job. He may be one of
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  Speaker 3: the great CEOs in American history.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and NVIDIA's CEO has to get that going for
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  Speaker 1: another 12 years. Part of the story is 15 years.
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  Speaker 1: That's remarkable. Finally, you raised the question of the Falklands.
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  Speaker 1: I said, even if Javier does something crazy, there isn't
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  Speaker 1: a Royal Navy to come get the Falklands back, is there?
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  Speaker 1: We have two minutes, John.
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  Speaker 4: No, there isn't. But I think you and I shouldn't
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  Speaker 4: talk about the Falklands.
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  Speaker 3: Falklands because we we know about it and we can
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  Speaker 3: actually say what happened in the 80s and I'm not
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  Speaker 3: sure we want to reveal that so we.
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  Speaker 1: Should move on you've been reading the stories about 80s
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  Speaker 1: trauma if you haven't read the stories about 80s trauma
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  Speaker 1: they're very funny John and I don't think the 80s
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  Speaker 1: were particularly traumatic. They ended up with the fall of
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  Speaker 1: the Berlin Wall. Do you, John, other than the hair
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  Speaker 1: and the music?
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  Speaker 3: I thought, well, yeah, some of the music, but the
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  Speaker 3: 80s were good to me, so I have no complaint.
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  Speaker 2: You and me both.
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  Speaker 1: John Ellis, CEO and editor-in-chief of News Items, which I
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: begin my day with every single day. Anyone who follows
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: my ex-account sees that I'll tease you with one or
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: two items from the 15 to 25 that John collects overnight.
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  Speaker 1: So it replaces whatever it is you're reading first in
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  Speaker 1: the morning. I mean, I still read the journal. I
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: still go to every other subscription, but I start with
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  Speaker 1: news items because then I know the most important stories.
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  Speaker 1: Coming up, Eli Lake, Breaking History podcaster, free press contributor.
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  Speaker 1: During the break, I'm going to check and see whether
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  Speaker 1: or not Iran actually fired off any ballistic missiles in
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  Speaker 1: the vicinity of Jordan and Israel. If they hit Israel,
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  Speaker 1: it will be a lot of fireworks over the weekend.
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  Speaker 1: If they even come close in Jordan... There will be
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  Speaker 1: fireworks anyway, as President Trump will not allow that to pass.
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  Speaker 1: Other big news of the day, enormous jobs report. Three
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: times what anyone expected President Trump put on True Social.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: He expected it, but nobody else did. And the markets
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: don't know what to do with that. But it's really
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: unabashed good news for Americans because we are at basically
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: full employment, which is where we want to be. Stay tuned, America.
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  Speaker 1: I'll be right back on The Hugh Hewitt Show. Welcome back, America.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: I'm Hugh Hewitt. Eli Lake is the host of the
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  Speaker 1: Breaking History podcast. He is also a contributor to the
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Free Press, and he's my go-to guy on obscure stuff. Eli,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: this is from left field. There's a new movie out,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Coyote vs. Acme. I think it's going to be pretty
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: funny because the premise is Wiley Coyote against Acme Corporation
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  Speaker 1: after hiring a billboard lawyer. You're younger than I am.
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  Speaker 1: Does it resonate with you, or do you have to
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  Speaker 1: be a Looney Tunes kid?
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  Speaker 2: No, no, no. I remember.
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  Speaker 6: I am younger than you, but I'm still old, I guess. But, yeah, no,
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  Speaker 6: I remember the Roadrunner and Wile E. Coyote and all
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  Speaker 6: of the Looney Tunes. No, I'm looking forward to the movie.
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  Speaker 1: Does that premise make you smile that we're going to
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  Speaker 1: get a plane employer and they're going to CGI in
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  Speaker 1: all the cartoon characters?
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  Speaker 2: I think it sounds great, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, good. Speaking of cartoon characters.
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  Speaker 6: It's the backstory of the Acme Corporation, which was a
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  Speaker 6: constant theme in those cartoons, and so I'm looking forward
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  Speaker 6: to it.
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  Speaker 1: All right, good. Here's my connection to Iran. They've gone
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  Speaker 1: Baghdad Bob this week. Just today we had an announcement
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  Speaker 1: from an Iranian military fatigue guy that they'd fired missiles
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: at American bases, and I'm reading online there is no
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  Speaker 1: such indication that They threatened Israel with strategic mission number
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  Speaker 1: 36 if they took the ridge in Lebanon where Hezbollah
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  Speaker 1: had the deep tunnel, and Israel took it and is
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  Speaker 1: blowing it up. Nothing has happened. Do you think they're
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  Speaker 1: out of gas, Eli?
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  Speaker 6: Fingers crossed, and to use another, I mean, I think
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  Speaker 6: they've made a series of blunders. They had an opportunity
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  Speaker 6: in June... to come out of the war in a
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  Speaker 6: better strategic position when the U.S. had agreed to the
• 13:41
  Speaker 6: Memorandum of Understanding, if you remember that. That would have
• 13:44
  Speaker 6: basically given them, it would have kind of cemented their
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  Speaker 6: role in Lebanon, which would have been a disaster for
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  Speaker 6: American national interests, but it would have been good for Iran.
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  Speaker 6: They couldn't help themselves. They continued to fire at vessels
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  Speaker 6: in the Strait of Hormuz. That led Trump to realize
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  Speaker 6: there was really no deal like that to be had.
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  Speaker 6: And since then, the United States has kind of, you know,
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  Speaker 6: it's held its strength. It hasn't done, you know, there
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  Speaker 6: is the munitions shortage. So it's picking its spots. So
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  Speaker 6: it's going after Iranian capabilities. So it can, and it's
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  Speaker 6: kept the blockade going. So its economy is continuing to constrict.
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  Speaker 6: And we're starting to now see that they don't have
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  Speaker 6: unlimited resources as well. They have supply problems. And notice
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  Speaker 6: they haven't hit– I mean, I think they haven't hit
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  Speaker 6: Israel in three months.
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  Speaker 2: That's extraordinary.
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  Speaker 1: So do you think they're– I used to use the
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  Speaker 1: analogy yesterday from, again, when I was young, Ali Frazier,
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  Speaker 1: they would go 15 rounds, but some would get wobbly
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  Speaker 1: in the 12th and the 13th round, and then you'd
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  Speaker 1: hit them in the stomach enough and they'd go down.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think Iran is getting wobbly?
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  Speaker 2: Well, it depends on what you mean by wobbly.
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  Speaker 6: I think that the regime itself has secured a position
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  Speaker 6: because they were able to instill a temporary amount of
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  Speaker 6: fear in the population, obviously, from January with the massacres.
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  Speaker 6: They are built in some ways to, because they don't
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  Speaker 6: care about their population, so the people can suffer a
• 15:19
  Speaker 6: lot and the elites will remain okay.
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  Speaker 2: But that said, I still think.
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  Speaker 6: That there is a reason why you hadn't seen that
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  Speaker 6: level of violence that you saw in January when they
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  Speaker 6: put down the uprising. It's because it's in kind of
• 15:36
  Speaker 6: deeply ingrained in, in kind of Shia culture. It's deeply
• 15:38
  Speaker 6: ingrained in Iranian, in, in this notion that you have
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  Speaker 6: to sort of, you know, respect the martyrdom.
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  Speaker 2: They created many more martyrs.
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  Speaker 6: The enmity that Iranians feel, I think towards the regime
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  Speaker 6: is only intensified and they're, And so there are potentially openings,
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  Speaker 6: but it doesn't happen overnight. And right now what I
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  Speaker 6: hope is that I would like to see Israel, the
• 16:02
  Speaker 6: United States, CIA, and Mossad investing in ways to defeat
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  Speaker 6: Internet shutdowns in Iran so the next time the demonstrators
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  Speaker 6: can communicate with one another. And, you know, potentially like,
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  Speaker 6: you know, what we saw in the beginning of the war,
• 16:16
  Speaker 6: which is drones, attacks on Basiji, Iran, positions that are
• 16:23
  Speaker 6: trying to do crowd control and things like that. So
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  Speaker 6: I think that there's potential there, but let's not hold
• 16:32
  Speaker 6: our breath on that.
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  Speaker 1: No, I'm just more optimistic now than I have been.
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  Speaker 2: I'm more optimistic in general, too.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Now I'm also more optimistic.
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  Speaker 6: And they've alienated the Saudis again. They've alienated the Emiratis.
• 16:44
  Speaker 6: So they're back to diplomatic isolation in the region. It's
• 16:48
  Speaker 6: not good for the Iranians at this point.
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  Speaker 1: And Trump is mad. I mean, really mad. Let's go
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: to the Senate. I think Abdul El-Sayed is radioactive and
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: is causing other senators to go like Tallarico in Texas
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: and Troy Jackson in Maine and maybe even Chris Pappas
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: in New Hampshire. I don't believe the polls about Abdul El-Sayed.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I think some people might be afraid to state their
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: opinion about him. He's the most radical major party candidate
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: of my life by a lot. Objectively true or an opinion?
• 17:22
  Speaker 6: Most radical, I'm trying to think. You know, the McGovern
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  Speaker 6: campaign was pretty radical. McGovern himself was a veteran, though,
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  Speaker 6: so I wouldn't... Yeah, I mean, in terms of a
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: major candidate in the Senate.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, major party candidate. Fred Harris was a populist. I mean,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: we had some pretty wacky... We got Bernie Sanders. He's
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: far beyond socialism. He is the red-green alliance personified, and
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: the stuff that keeps coming out about him I think
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: he's polluting the entire Democratic Party.
• 17:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, we did start to see in the
• 17:59
  Speaker 6: form of pushback on Piker, you saw a number of
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: Democrat electeds coming out and saying that that was a
• 18:05
  Speaker 6: bridge too far. And, you know, Piker can't help himself.
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: He streams hours a day and he's attacked them. So
• 18:12
  Speaker 6: we're beginning to see some pushback. But I mean, this
• 18:16
  Speaker 6: is this is the guy right now. I mean, This
• 18:19
  Speaker 6: is who the Democrats are going to ride with, and
• 18:23
  Speaker 6: we'll see. I think it's in some ways a favor
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: to the Democratic Party if he ends up losing because
• 18:28
  Speaker 6: they won't be tempted.
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  Speaker 2: To go down that road again. I hope you're right.
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  Speaker 6: But if he wins, it's going to be like we
• 18:35
  Speaker 6: found the secret formula, and it's not good.
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: Oh, boy.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, quick last question, Eli. The Republican generic ballot advantage
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: went into the green for the first time in eight
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: months in the Harvard-Harris poll. Really? What is that? Oh, yeah.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: They're up by two unlikely voters. What is that about?
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 18:53
  Speaker 6: Well, that's I mean, the Democrats have done a pretty
• 18:56
  Speaker 6: good job of scaring normies.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 18:58
  Speaker 6: This should be a pretty easy win for them, given
• 19:01
  Speaker 6: the president's approval ratings at this point, because I think
• 19:05
  Speaker 6: that overall, I think people I mean, have a little
• 19:08
  Speaker 6: I think most normal voters kind of have a bit
• 19:10
  Speaker 6: of Trump fatigue at this point. But the fact that
• 19:12
  Speaker 6: the Republicans are still up on a generic ballot tells
• 19:15
  Speaker 6: me just how terrible and how bad it was to
• 19:18
  Speaker 6: have all those kind of DSA primary wins a few
• 19:22
  Speaker 6: months ago in New York and other places.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: That scares a lot of normal voters.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: There aren't any local races. Every race is national. I mean,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: we're following Abdul El-Sayed and Tallarico and Troy Jackson. Every
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: race colors every other race. It might be new. I
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: know it's been around for a while. Last word, do
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: you think it's a new cycle in terms of the
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: information world in which a voter lives?
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: I'm still preparing. for the worst.
• 19:50
  Speaker 6: I'm still thinking that at this point it's going to
• 19:52
  Speaker 6: be a pretty tough cycle. And also I'm worried about
• 19:55
  Speaker 6: other things that I see, which is that there were
• 19:58
  Speaker 6: certain kinds of things that Trump could do to sort
• 20:00
  Speaker 6: of press his advantage. His MAGA ink pack is not
• 20:04
  Speaker 6: spending in ways that they should.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Be spending at this point.
• 20:07
  Speaker 6: So I'm just a little worried that– You know, you
• 20:10
  Speaker 6: can look for green shoots, but it looks like.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: It's... Remember Braveheart, Eli. Hold, hold, hold. You've got to
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: hold on until the voting starts at least.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I hear that.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Eli Lake, read him at the Free Press. Listen to
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Breaking History. Follow him on X at Eli Lake. Come
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: right back for Matt Continetti.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, America.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: I'm Matthew Cotton. Eddie is the columnist of the Wall
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Street Journal and their Free Expressions Vertical, head of domestic
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, Thursday guest on
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: the Commentary Podcast, Tuesday and Friday guest when we were
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: lucky on the Hugh Hewitt Show. Matt, I am going
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: to get to Lindsay Clancy next segment, but I want
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: to ask you now about your column today on Akeem Jeffries. Very,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: very good. Did you have a chance to hear before
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: you wrote it that He attempted to link the cost
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: of living and affordability to alleged corruption in the Trump
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: White House. Have you heard that yet?
• 21:08
  Speaker 7: I'd heard that's what Democrats were planning. I think it's
• 21:11
  Speaker 7: a little bit of a complicated bank shot for them.
• 21:14
  Speaker 7: And so I don't know if it's their best line
• 21:17
  Speaker 7: of attack at all ahead of the midterms.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Bank shot. There's some show my 10-year-old grandson watched, Dude Perfect,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: where they do trick shots. That's what it is. It's
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: like from the top of the gym. It does not work.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: And I'm thinking to myself, do you think that much
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: of a reach suggests desperation to get away from DSA
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: branding and Abdul El-Sayed and James Tallarico and Troy Jackson?
• 21:45
  Speaker 7: Well, Hugh, this is an agenda-free election. The Republicans are
• 21:50
  Speaker 7: running on their accomplishments, which are real, but they don't
• 21:53
  Speaker 7: really have a forward-looking vision for the electorate. And the
• 21:57
  Speaker 7: Democrats have nothing at all. All they've had is two
• 22:00
  Speaker 7: years of obstruction, of sniping, of criticism. And in place
• 22:04
  Speaker 7: of an absent Democratic agenda, you have the DSA agenda.
• 22:09
  Speaker 7: So I do think Democrats are scrambling to find the
• 22:12
  Speaker 7: right message for this election. They talk affordability, affordability, affordability.
• 22:16
  Speaker 7: That just raises the question, why are things so expensive?
• 22:19
  Speaker 7: And Republicans have a good answer here. The main driver
• 22:22
  Speaker 7: of this inflation is not Donald Trump. It's Joe Biden's
• 22:26
  Speaker 7: excessive spending during his four years in office.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: It's a good answer, and I hope they use it.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Let me also bring up to you what David Asman
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: asked me about the vice president this morning on CNBC. J.D.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Vance said bad things will happen if Democrats take over
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: the House and the Senate. I pointed to 2006 when
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: they did that. They were seated in early 2007. Six
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: months later, I know correlation is not causation. Six months later,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: the financial crisis begins, and the Great Recession is in
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: full bore by 2008. Fair point for Democrats to have
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: to answer for and Republicans to make?
• 23:03
  Speaker 7: Well, Democrats in 2007 certainly didn't do anything to stop
• 23:07
  Speaker 7: the burgeoning financial crisis. I think the Federal Reserve and
• 23:10
  Speaker 7: some earlier policies had a larger hand in that disaster.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: But there is a clear.
• 23:17
  Speaker 7: argument to be made, Hugh, that bad things will happen
• 23:20
  Speaker 7: if the Democrats seize one or both chambers of Congress
• 23:24
  Speaker 7: in this election. The first thing is, any progress on
• 23:27
  Speaker 7: reform would stop. And the Trump administration has made great progress.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Think about it.
• 23:33
  Speaker 7: Just in the first year alone, President Trump has essentially
• 23:36
  Speaker 7: ended illegal immigration into this country. And the deportations of
• 23:40
  Speaker 7: illegal immigrants, since we had the change in leadership, since
• 23:43
  Speaker 7: Tom Holman has been put in charge.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Of our strategy... they have reached record.
• 23:48
  Speaker 7: Highs for President Trump without all of the scenes of
• 23:52
  Speaker 7: chaos and violence from earlier this year.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: So there's a good story to tell there.
• 23:55
  Speaker 7: On energy, yes, gas is about a dollar higher now
• 23:59
  Speaker 7: on average than it was before the operation in Iran
• 24:03
  Speaker 7: began in February. But we're still pumping more energy than
• 24:09
  Speaker 7: ever before, and President Trump has the right policy on
• 24:12
  Speaker 7: data centers telling them they need to provide their own energy.
• 24:16
  Speaker 7: And then we just had this fantastic jobs report today
• 24:19
  Speaker 7: coming out, beat all expectations, 162,000 new jobs in August, unemployment,
• 24:24
  Speaker 7: essentially a full employment economy, and the big areas of
• 24:28
  Speaker 7: growth in the jobs report, Hugh, as I'm sure you saw,
• 24:31
  Speaker 7: they were in places like construction and manufacturing. That's the
• 24:35
  Speaker 7: blue-collar base of this MAGA movement and of Donald Trump's presidency.
• 24:40
  Speaker 7: So if you want to keep that going, I don't
• 24:42
  Speaker 7: think a Democratic Congress or even a Democratic House... would
• 24:46
  Speaker 7: be any help.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: The generic ballot flipped for the first time among likely
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: voters in the Harvard-Harris poll this week to plus two R.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: First time in maybe eight months, nine months. What do
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: you think about that?
• 25:00
  Speaker 7: Well, I was very interested in that finding, the Harris poll.
• 25:03
  Speaker 7: Of course, Mark Penn, the very sharp Democratic political strategist,
• 25:09
  Speaker 7: is a key figure in the Harris poll. And what
• 25:11
  Speaker 7: it says to me, Hugh, is no one knows who's
• 25:14
  Speaker 7: going to show up in November. Right now, pollsters are
• 25:17
  Speaker 7: basing their surveys on what they think is the likely
• 25:22
  Speaker 7: composition of the turnout in November. And no one really knows,
• 25:27
  Speaker 7: especially when you're doing these surveys that depend on phone calls,
• 25:33
  Speaker 7: where the people most likely to talk to pollsters are
• 25:36
  Speaker 7: going to be those diehard progressives who would crawl over
• 25:38
  Speaker 7: glass to tell somebody how much they hate Donald Trump.
• 25:43
  Speaker 7: So I think this is a very interesting result, and
• 25:45
  Speaker 7: what it says is this election is a toss-up election
• 25:48
  Speaker 7: at this point.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: I'll be right back with Matt during the break, and
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: we'll put it on the podcast, and he'll be back
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: after the break to talk about Abdul El-Sayed and blood
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: libels and many other things. Don't go anywhere, America. Continetti is.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: I'm back now with Matt Continetti. Matt, I avert my
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: eyes mostly from the Lindsay Clancy jury and trial because
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: I'm a lawyer. I've been on a jury that was
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: hung for two weeks. When one juror would not come
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: along with 11, you can't read minds. Nobody knows what's
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: going on there. And it's just so sad. It's such
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: a sad case. But the country's fixated on, hey, what's
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: it tell us about our networks and what people want
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: to watch? And do you draw any conclusion from the
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: hung jury? One juror refused to absolve her of guilt
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: by reason of insanity.
• 26:36
  Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, I too, Hugh, have not been paying
• 26:39
  Speaker 7: close attention to this story until just the past couple
• 26:42
  Speaker 7: days when we've had this standoff on the jury. And
• 26:45
  Speaker 7: just a few thoughts. The first is, you know, this
• 26:47
  Speaker 7: type of grotesque and abhorrent crime often attracts a lot
• 26:52
  Speaker 7: of news attention. It's just a commonplace in journalism and
• 26:57
  Speaker 7: kind of what publics are interested in. What's unique about
• 27:01
  Speaker 7: the Clancy trial is that she has supporters who are
• 27:05
  Speaker 7: outside the courtroom and online somehow trying to justify the
• 27:10
  Speaker 7: murder of of her three children and that is new
• 27:14
  Speaker 7: and it's related I think to this kind of weird
• 27:17
  Speaker 7: cult that has been forming around people who have been
• 27:20
  Speaker 7: accused of horrible acts of violence you know all the
• 27:24
  Speaker 7: people who are outside the Mangione court talking about how
• 27:28
  Speaker 7: somehow his crime was justified we saw something too with
• 27:33
  Speaker 7: the supporters of Carmelo Anthony that's the young man who
• 27:37
  Speaker 7: stabbed another student athlete out of nowhere people trying.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: To justify that act. That is new to our society.
• 27:46
  Speaker 7: I think the Internet and social media play a role
• 27:50
  Speaker 7: in that, but that is something that we have to
• 27:52
  Speaker 7: draw the line against and combat at every opportunity.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: If you have a chance, and I hope you do,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: to read going further Ted Cruz's new book he's on later,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: at the end of it he goes over the rise
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: in violence against public officials, not just threats, threats have
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: been around forever, but violence. actual plans to kill and
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: to kill people like Charlie Kirk. Do you think there's
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: a correlation or causation even in what we fixate on
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: in the news and what happens and derange people's minds?
• 28:25
  Speaker 7: I think there's a danger that violence and political violence
• 28:29
  Speaker 7: in particular is becoming normalized in American society when it
• 28:34
  Speaker 7: really needs to be denounced at every opportunity. You know,
• 28:39
  Speaker 7: there's always kind of this fascination with the grotesque, with
• 28:43
  Speaker 7: serial killers, with the macabre. But what I think that
• 28:47
  Speaker 7: social media networks change is this ability to find other
• 28:52
  Speaker 7: people who share your bizarre obsession. And that, I think,
• 28:56
  Speaker 7: needs to be resisted. And we really need to remind
• 29:00
  Speaker 7: ourselves that the lunatics out there who are somehow supporting
• 29:05
  Speaker 7: Lindsay Clancy do not represent America. And to the degree
• 29:10
  Speaker 7: they represent a part of America, well, we need to
• 29:13
  Speaker 7: argue against it and assert moral clarity.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, John Bothorz memorably said the Internet has allowed people
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: to come together who ought never to be allowed to
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: come together. I'll be right back with Matt Continetti. Stay tuned.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Welcome back. I'm Hugh Hewitt with Matt Continetti. As we
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: begin a long weekend, Matt, as I mentioned, Ted Cruz
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: will be on later. to talk about his book going further. Yesterday,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Vice President Vance got asked a question about 2028 and
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Ted Cruz. He said, clearly, Ted is a very authentic
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: and likable guy, and I'm sure he'll do great. Were
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: those the first political shots fired in 2028? I'm going
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: to ask Senator Cruz.
• 29:58
  Speaker 7: It sounds like it. I think that was what we
• 30:00
  Speaker 7: call in the business a backhanded compliment. and maybe an
• 30:04
  Speaker 7: allusion to some of the lines of attack that have
• 30:07
  Speaker 7: been used by Senator Cruz in the past. But I'll
• 30:10
  Speaker 7: tell you, it's interesting, Hugh, that the Vice President would
• 30:12
  Speaker 7: say that, because what we've been hearing from his advisors,
• 30:16
  Speaker 7: kind of the anonymous sources, is that the Vance camp
• 30:20
  Speaker 7: isn't worried about Ted Cruz at all. Having the Vice
• 30:24
  Speaker 7: President come out with a line like that suggests that,
• 30:26
  Speaker 7: you know what, maybe Senator Cruz has been on his mind.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to ask him, because I expect, Cruz, Vance,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: maybe Rubio, probably not, DeSantis, Secretary Pompeo from term one,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: maybe Secretary Burgum from two, and I'm not ruling out
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Scott Besson now. I think we're going to have a
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: lot of talent on the stage. How many debates and
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: when should they start, Matt Continetti?
• 30:53
  Speaker 7: Well, look, I think what's been shown, the last time
• 30:56
  Speaker 7: we had a competitive GOP primary, and that's 2016, is
• 31:01
  Speaker 7: that the more debates, the better. And the debates matter.
• 31:05
  Speaker 7: The debates affect how people view the candidates. Donald Trump
• 31:10
  Speaker 7: is the president because of his debate performance. Really, from
• 31:15
  Speaker 7: that first line, when asking in response to Megyn Kelly
• 31:20
  Speaker 7: about his criticism from women, Trump said, only Rosie O'Donnell.
• 31:26
  Speaker 7: From there on, I think he kind of stole the show.
• 31:28
  Speaker 7: So debates matter. I think they should start next summer, Hugh.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'd go earlier and I'd go more because they
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: draw 20 million people. And if you want to hold
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: on to the House and the Senate, provided you retain
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: one or the both, you're not just running for president,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: you're running to head of government. And, Matt, do you think,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: because I had a conversation with Rick Crawford, who was
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: chair of budget now and approves, We've got to do
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: something about the $ 40 trillion. I mean, we really do
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: have to do something. The bond market is in revolt.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Do you think the Republicans will have enough courage to
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: talk about entitlement reform?
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Well, we've had it in the past, Hugh.
• 32:10
  Speaker 7: We've not been talking about it during the Trump era
• 32:15
  Speaker 7: until now. And I think that's because the bond market
• 32:18
  Speaker 7: is making the topic unavoidable. And I fully expect that
• 32:23
  Speaker 7: this will be an issue in the Republican primary debates.
• 32:26
  Speaker 7: People thinking about running for president ought to have an
• 32:29
  Speaker 7: answer for it. And, you know, look, President Trump in
• 32:33
  Speaker 7: his last two years in office, he might turn his
• 32:35
  Speaker 7: attention to getting the fiscal house in order as well.
• 32:39
  Speaker 7: So that could play into it. You know, one factor
• 32:42
  Speaker 7: that could be overlooked here, Hugh, is depending on the
• 32:46
  Speaker 7: composition of the Senate, Vice President Vance may have to
• 32:50
  Speaker 7: spend a lot of time on Capitol Hill over the
• 32:52
  Speaker 7: next two years to cast tie-breaking votes. That, I think,
• 32:55
  Speaker 7: would affect the primary as well. I know that he'd
• 32:59
  Speaker 7: more likely want to spend his time out in the
• 33:01
  Speaker 7: country with voters.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: One more Vance-related question. Pod Save America yesterday, John Favreau
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: and John Lovett, proud graduates of Williams College and Holy
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Cross College, were discussing blood libels. And it was painfully
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: obvious to this Gentile. They had no idea what they
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: were talking about, and they made it up, demonstrating that
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: maybe you ought not to take a swing at someone
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: for using a term if you yourself don't.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Know what it is.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Did you see that clip, and what did you make
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: of it?
• 33:32
  Speaker 7: Well, I saw it on social media, Hugh. You know,
• 33:34
  Speaker 7: I made of it what I think is just a
• 33:36
  Speaker 7: fact about American life, is there's just a lot of
• 33:38
  Speaker 7: ignorance about Jews, about Judaism, and about Israel in the
• 33:43
  Speaker 7: United States. On one level, that makes a lot of sense.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Jews are a minority.
• 33:47
  Speaker 7: They're the smallest religious minority in many ways. A lot
• 33:51
  Speaker 7: of people just don't know any American Jews. They have
• 33:54
  Speaker 7: never been to Israel. Israel is a very small country.
• 33:57
  Speaker 7: And so when you have that sort of widespread ignorance,
• 34:00
  Speaker 7: you see people making the statements like we saw with
• 34:03
  Speaker 7: Pod Save America. Here's the problem, though. People should be
• 34:06
  Speaker 7: aware of their ignorance. Instead, they seem to be proud
• 34:11
  Speaker 7: of it. and make these ridiculously incorrect assertions.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: For the benefit of anyone listening, the blood libel began 800,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: 900 years ago in medieval Christianity with the assertion made
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: that Jews killed Christian children to use their blood to
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: mix in the matzah, and that would set off pogroms.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: And that kept going and then was aided by the
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: protocols of the elder of Zion from the czars. I'm
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: a Gentile. I've always known that. I don't know people
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: who didn't know that until I listened to that clip.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: I just thought, of course you would know what a
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: blood libel was. All right, Matt, let's talk about Abdul El-Sayed,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: James Tallarico, and Troy Jackson. In that order, maybe Chris Pappas.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: I think the top of the ticket, El-Sayed, and his
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: running mate, Hassan Piker, have made everybody on the extremes radioactive.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: It doesn't show up in the polling yet, but I
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: think it's showing up every day on social media. What
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: do you think?
• 35:04
  Speaker 7: Look, El-Sayed barely won his primary, and immediately... He was
• 35:08
  Speaker 7: on defense, and he was on defense because of his
• 35:11
  Speaker 7: main surrogate, Hassan Piker, Piker's comments, but also some of
• 35:15
  Speaker 7: the things that El-Sayed has said in the past. He's
• 35:18
  Speaker 7: been apologizing. He's been trying to explain his association with
• 35:22
  Speaker 7: Piker ever since. He's trying to right that ship. He
• 35:25
  Speaker 7: got into a fight with Vice President Vance, which only
• 35:28
  Speaker 7: distracts from the campaign. He seems uncomfortable in a lot
• 35:31
  Speaker 7: of contexts. And I think the focus on El-Sayed has
• 35:36
  Speaker 7: also now led to people paying attention to some of
• 35:38
  Speaker 7: the other extremists running for office. You mentioned Tallarico. His
• 35:42
  Speaker 7: recent comments that have been surfaced about deconstructing capitalism are
• 35:47
  Speaker 7: going to turn a lot of heads in Texas. People
• 35:50
  Speaker 7: are looking at Troy Jackson and his family relations, much
• 35:54
  Speaker 7: less his political radicalism in Maine. And we have this
• 35:59
  Speaker 7: candidate in Michigan, Hugh, William Lawrence. a Green New Deal
• 36:03
  Speaker 7: radical who got basically the nomination to run for Alyssa
• 36:08
  Speaker 7: Slotkin's old district against incumbent Republican Tom Barrett. His comments
• 36:12
  Speaker 7: about Joe Manchin that just came out today, thanks to
• 36:16
  Speaker 7: the K-file at CNN, saying, you know, just go ahead
• 36:19
  Speaker 7: and die already to Joe Manchin, that's going to get
• 36:22
  Speaker 7: a lot of attention, too. And Democrats are going to
• 36:25
  Speaker 7: have to explain these comments. And I think what the
• 36:28
  Speaker 7: comments show, this radicalism, this almost indecency, inhumanity to some
• 36:33
  Speaker 7: of these young radicals.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: That's a reason you see polls, like we discussed with
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: the Harvard-Harris poll, that.
• 36:40
  Speaker 7: Shows that the generic ballot's more competitive than people would assume. And,
• 36:45
  Speaker 7: you know, I once learned from Kevin McCarthy, the former speaker,
• 36:48
  Speaker 7: he said, Democrats have to get beyond a five-point advantage
• 36:52
  Speaker 7: in the generic ballot for them to make real gains
• 36:54
  Speaker 7: in an election. Right now, in the RCP average, they're
• 36:57
  Speaker 7: at six percent. that this is a closer election than
• 37:00
  Speaker 7: a lot of people believe at the moment.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: You know, Matt, I'm going to keep you for one
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: more question. After the break, we'll put it on the podcast.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: It's about Susan Collins and Jonathan Martin, but I don't
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: have enough time, so don't go anywhere. I'll be right back. America,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: I'll put it on the podcast. Don't miss it. I'm
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: back with Matt Continetti. Matt, it's not a secret among
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: people who know me or Jonathan Martin, we don't like
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: each other and never have. I think Politico is off
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: the left edge of the playing field. So Jonathan goes up,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: he sits down with Susan Collins, and he asks, you know,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: is it fair to bring up Troy Jackson's personal life?
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: He asked that. And Susan Collins said, I'm not going
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: to bring up the fact that he has children with
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: his second cousin. And Jonathan Martin said, you just did.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: I just think that's classic, crazy-ass, biased journalism by Martin.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: What do you think? Is Susan Collins supposed to not
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: answer the question then?
• 37:51
  Speaker 7: Yeah, she has to answer the question. I thought she
• 37:53
  Speaker 7: did it. in a fantastic way. I thought that was
• 37:56
  Speaker 7: like a karate chop from Susan Collins. And I think that, yeah,
• 38:01
  Speaker 7: if you're asked that question, why.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Not bring it up?
• 38:03
  Speaker 7: Jackson's, Jackson's a weirdo. You know, I mean, he has
• 38:06
  Speaker 7: radical beliefs. He's an insider pretending to be an outsider. He's,
• 38:10
  Speaker 7: he's run for higher office before and failed. He's not
• 38:14
  Speaker 7: a very exciting candidate. He's Graham Platner without the personality. So,
• 38:18
  Speaker 7: you know, Susan Collins can make any attacks she wants and,
• 38:23
  Speaker 7: It's not the media's place to clutch their pearls over it.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I thought, Jonathan, such hypocrisy. But I got
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: to say, remember the old line about Democrats and abortion?
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Make it safe, legal, and rare. Having children with your
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: second cousin should also be safe, legal, and very rare
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: in the United States. So we'll see what happens up
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: in Maine. Matt, thanks for the extra question. Have a
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: great long weekend. Enjoy your Labor Day. Matt Continetti. Read
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: everything he writes. at the Free Expressions Vertical, at the
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal, and at the American Enterprise Institute website.
• 38:53
  Speaker 5: Thanks, Matt.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: If you've listened to this program for any length of time,
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  Speaker 1: an additional $ 50. Hi, it's Hugh Hewitt. Thanks for listening
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• 41:09
  Speaker 9: Only on Salem Now, featuring one of Charlie Kirk's final interviews.
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• 41:24
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• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Welcome back, America. Morning glory and evening grace. It's time
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: to stump Ben Dominic, our weekly run through the jungle
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: of old music to see if Ben actually has any
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: popular culture chops at all. Ben Dominic, editor of the
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Daily Wire Opinion section, Fox News podcaster at the Big
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Ben podcast, Fox News contributor, Man About Town. What was
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: that song?
• 42:41
  Speaker 8: I can barely hear it, Hugh. I'm sorry. I'm outside.
• 42:46
  Speaker 8: I barely got it. I'm sorry. I don't know what
• 42:48
  Speaker 8: it is.
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: It's called Smash It Up by the Damned. If you
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: had heard Smash It Up by the Damned, would you
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: have known what it is?
• 42:56
  Speaker 8: No, I would not. I actually want to turn this
• 42:58
  Speaker 8: around on you at some point, and I want to
• 43:00
  Speaker 8: do something where I try to stump you and I
• 43:02
  Speaker 8: have the restriction of of only being able to use
• 43:05
  Speaker 8: songs that have more than a billion Spotify streams. Because
• 43:12
  Speaker 8: I'm pretty sure I can do that.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: You got me. That one. That comes from.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: I stopped using Ted Lasso grabs because you've got babies.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: You can't watch Ted Lasso. But that's from SAS Rogue Heroes.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Have you watched that yet? No, I've not.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, Ben.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, so good.
• 43:31
  Speaker 8: And.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: The Fetching Mrs. Hewitt likes it, despite its being rather violent.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: It's the 1941 founding of the SAS in the desert,
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: and it's based sort of loosely on the SAS.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: That sounds cool. I'll have to check it out.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: All right, let me get to some news. Ted Cruz
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: is coming up. Ted Cruz is coming up. He got
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: this great new book on Clarence Thomas going further. Great man,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: great justice, great book. I am going to ask him, though,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: about J.D. Vance yesterday, saying, clearly Ted's a very authentic
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: and likable guy, and I'm sure he'll do great. So
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: was that shade or was that good?
• 44:05
  Speaker 8: That was 100% shade. You know that. The truth is
• 44:09
  Speaker 8: that if someone's paying Ted Cruz a compliment, they say
• 44:14
  Speaker 8: that he's smart. I personally like Ted Cruz. I think
• 44:16
  Speaker 8: he's very funny. But the authentic and likable comment is
• 44:21
  Speaker 8: clearly meant to be an echo of President Trump's critiques
• 44:26
  Speaker 8: of Ted Cruz back during the 2016 election. Look, I mean,
• 44:30
  Speaker 8: if Ted is making these signals now, I think a
• 44:32
  Speaker 8: lot of people are taking him seriously. And I think
• 44:34
  Speaker 8: that this is just another indication that all the people
• 44:38
  Speaker 8: who are saying that this is a foregone conclusion, that
• 44:41
  Speaker 8: the vice president is just going to automatically be the nominee. No,
• 44:44
  Speaker 8: I think he's going to have to fight for it.
• 44:46
  Speaker 8: He's going to have to earn it. And there's going
• 44:47
  Speaker 8: to be some real challengers who I think are going
• 44:49
  Speaker 8: to stand forward and you know, put him into a
• 44:51
  Speaker 8: position where he's going to have to fight for it.
• 44:54
  Speaker 8: And I think that's a good thing.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: I think it's a great thing. I'm going to ask
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Senator Cruz because I think Senator Cruz is definitely running.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: The vice president is definitely running. Maybe Secretary Rubio. Maybe
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Secretary Berger. Maybe Secretary Besson. Definitely former Secretary of State
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: Pompeo is going to be in there. And they're all
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: going to have a lot of money. When should the
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: debates begin and how many of them should there be?
• 45:16
  Speaker 8: Well, Hugh, I would like the debates to begin as
• 45:19
  Speaker 8: soon as possible and to have as many as possible.
• 45:23
  Speaker 8: One of the things that people, I think, don't truly
• 45:25
  Speaker 8: appreciate about J.D. Vance's path to this point is that, yes,
• 45:29
  Speaker 8: he had to win a challenging primary in Ohio, but
• 45:33
  Speaker 8: he was in a good cycle and he had a
• 45:35
  Speaker 8: lot of money behind him and he won that race.
• 45:37
  Speaker 8: And then he had one debate with Tim Waltz, who,
• 45:39
  Speaker 8: in retrospect, looks like an even weaker nominee for the
• 45:43
  Speaker 8: vice presidency than we thought at the time. I think
• 45:46
  Speaker 8: it's good to get your chops up and to get
• 45:49
  Speaker 8: back in the rhythm of campaigning. And so because of that,
• 45:53
  Speaker 8: even if you are pro-J.D. Vance, I think that you
• 45:55
  Speaker 8: should want there to be a healthy debate. I personally
• 45:59
  Speaker 8: hope that there are a lot of them, and I
• 46:00
  Speaker 8: hope that this time around we have a lot of
• 46:02
  Speaker 8: those available to entities that are not just the increasingly
• 46:07
  Speaker 8: fading TV network's that do not have the kind of
• 46:11
  Speaker 8: poll that they used to. There's no reason to give
• 46:13
  Speaker 8: CNN a debate, for instance. I mean, if you want to,
• 46:15
  Speaker 8: you can, but, I mean, it's almost like, I mean,
• 46:17
  Speaker 8: you know, you're giving a popsicle to a kid in
• 46:20
  Speaker 8: a wheelchair.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: There are a couple of reasons to use big networks. One,
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: staging costs are extraordinary, and the framing for the Republicans
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: have to be good. But you can always ask Ben
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: Dominic or Matt Continetti or Hugh Hewitt to come over
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: and join. or Mary Katherine Hamm, or someone like, you
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: can mix it up. There are no rules here. What
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: matters is it be for Republican. But I do think
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: the more the merrier, and I think maybe one or
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: two moderators, and they ought to get to entitlement spend,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: because the bond markers in a rebellion. I've done four
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: debates with Ted Cruz, one with J.D. Vance when he's
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: running for Senate. They're smart guys. They can handle the
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: entitlement question. Don't we need that asked and answered?
• 46:59
  Speaker 8: Well, we do need that asked and answered. But we
• 47:01
  Speaker 8: also I think that, you know, it's really unclear, you know,
• 47:04
  Speaker 8: at this point, because everyone I think is and look,
• 47:07
  Speaker 8: we can be frank about this. They're scared of offending
• 47:11
  Speaker 8: the president because he defines so much about this party
• 47:14
  Speaker 8: right now. But I think that what's going to happen
• 47:16
  Speaker 8: is after the midterms, a lot of people are going
• 47:18
  Speaker 8: to start having the conversations that we need to be having,
• 47:21
  Speaker 8: not just about entitlements, but about a lot of other
• 47:23
  Speaker 8: forward looking things. You know, look, we have an aging society, Hugh,
• 47:28
  Speaker 8: as you know.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 47:30
  Speaker 8: A real problem, I think, when it comes to health care,
• 47:33
  Speaker 8: but also to just the general burden that all of
• 47:39
  Speaker 8: these different programs, both governmental and state and everywhere else,
• 47:44
  Speaker 8: are going to have to deal with in the coming
• 47:46
  Speaker 8: years because of that gap, because we don't have enough
• 47:49
  Speaker 8: younger workers who are capable of sustaining these systems. You
• 47:54
  Speaker 8: look at a state like California. California is basing everything
• 47:58
  Speaker 8: that they have right now on this idea that they're
• 48:01
  Speaker 8: going to be able to seize the property of billionaires,
• 48:03
  Speaker 8: and those billionaires aren't going to be able to run.
• 48:06
  Speaker 8: That's something that is just not going to work. You
• 48:08
  Speaker 8: know it's not going to work.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: And the state's insolvent. Well, I can say this because
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: I've been saying the same thing for 20 years. When
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: I was at OPM as general counsel and eventually director,
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: we began– A 30-year transition from the Federal Employee Retirement
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: System to the Thrift Savings Program, TSP. And it's done,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: and it worked. And you can reform an entitlement if
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: you do it over 30 years. We could raise the
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: retirement age a month, a year for the next 30 years.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: It would be five years. It would save Social Security.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: We could make Medicare... means-tested or increase the premiums, it
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: would say, Matt, there are so many things we could do.
• 48:50
  Speaker 8: Well, the problem, though, Hugh, I think, is that for
• 48:53
  Speaker 8: a lot of people, and this is a big problem,
• 48:56
  Speaker 8: and I completely agree with you, and we should have
• 48:58
  Speaker 8: been means-testing and we should have been raising the retirement
• 49:02
  Speaker 8: age when it comes to Social Security a long time ago.
• 49:04
  Speaker 8: You know, RIP Tom Coburn for arguing so vociferously for
• 49:07
  Speaker 8: that at the time, and Paul Ryan as well. But
• 49:10
  Speaker 8: one of the things that I think we need to
• 49:12
  Speaker 8: understand is for the American family today, the amount of
• 49:16
  Speaker 8: cost burden that they are now bearing, even as they have...
• 49:20
  Speaker 8: decent insurance or what would qualify as decent insurance in
• 49:23
  Speaker 8: this day and age, is enormous. And the shock medical
• 49:27
  Speaker 8: bills that come with that, paired now with new AI
• 49:30
  Speaker 8: systems that these insurers and hospital systems are using, that's
• 49:34
  Speaker 8: going to be something that I think is increasingly a
• 49:37
  Speaker 8: major issue that Republicans have to deal with. I'm just
• 49:40
  Speaker 8: tired of this situation where Republicans say, well, this is
• 49:44
  Speaker 8: just Obamacare because you know what? You're right. Yeah, it is.
• 49:47
  Speaker 8: But it's also something that that does not believe you.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: And Ben, I want to get one question on the table.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: AI data centers throw off an enormous amount of revenue.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: Guess what? They're spending it. They're spending it wherever it
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: comes in and they're blocking some data center. They should
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: be rebating it to property tax or sales taxpayers, or
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: they should be using it to pay down, uh... unfunded
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: pension liabilities which they've got california's basically insolvent do you
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: think the republicans are attacking the data centers it's a
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: revenue generator and we need the revenue.
• 50:20
  Speaker 8: Well what i really wanted to hear and the vice
• 50:22
  Speaker 8: president was asked about this the other day and in
• 50:24
  Speaker 8: his uh... press briefing uh... but he didn't really give
• 50:27
  Speaker 8: a complete answer i'd like to hear a complete answer
• 50:29
  Speaker 8: from him about this he's very close with the tech
• 50:31
  Speaker 8: sector everyone knows that he's very much a future you
• 50:34
  Speaker 8: know he's not a doomer when it comes to uh...
• 50:36
  Speaker 8: you know his posture towards these types of issues but
• 50:39
  Speaker 8: he's also someone who has a rural background, is very
• 50:42
  Speaker 8: familiar with the issues that people confront there, and the
• 50:45
  Speaker 8: concerns about jobs in these places that are dying towns, etc.
• 50:50
  Speaker 8: I would really like to hear from him the way
• 50:53
  Speaker 8: that he would answer the question about what he would
• 50:56
  Speaker 8: say to all these communities that are nervous about these things,
• 50:59
  Speaker 8: that are concerned about them, and make the case to them.
• 51:03
  Speaker 8: Because I don't think that Republicans generally, from the House
• 51:08
  Speaker 8: and Senate, et cetera, and even down to the governor's
• 51:11
  Speaker 8: races and the like, I don't think that they've done
• 51:13
  Speaker 8: a really good job of vocalizing the case that they
• 51:18
  Speaker 8: want to make for this in a way that is
• 51:20
  Speaker 8: both convincing the people that it's authentic and that it
• 51:23
  Speaker 8: really deals with the concerns, the NIMBY concerns, which I
• 51:26
  Speaker 8: believe are the things animating this issue the most.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: You're right.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: I've got one minute for a very big question. I
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: think Abdul El-Sayed is by far the most radical major
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: party candidate of my lifetime. And I know about Fred Harris.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: I know about the most radical populace out there. But
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: he's got a sinister edge to him. He's got backers
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: who are crazy. He's been called insane by Van Jones,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: his policy choices. Do you think he's making the Democratic
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: Party radioactive? You've got a minute, Van Dominic.
• 51:53
  Speaker 8: I think Abdul El-Sayed can win. I'm not exaggerating here.
• 51:58
  Speaker 8: I think he absolutely can win. This is a cycle
• 52:00
  Speaker 8: when he can win. And people shouldn't underestimate this as
• 52:03
  Speaker 8: a risk. I think that Republicans are a little bit
• 52:07
  Speaker 8: too confident in the idea that the public is going
• 52:10
  Speaker 8: to reject these DSA candidates. They can be very effective.
• 52:14
  Speaker 8: I don't know if you've seen some of his videos
• 52:16
  Speaker 8: and things. He can be very effective in working around
• 52:18
  Speaker 8: his issues, softening his image. And unfortunately, I think the
• 52:21
  Speaker 8: media is going to do them no favors, as we
• 52:23
  Speaker 8: could always expect. But this cycle is going to go
• 52:26
  Speaker 8: against them in a lot of different ways. Do not,
• 52:28
  Speaker 8: do not, make the mistake of thinking that he can't
• 52:31
  Speaker 8: win Michigan.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Good caution to know and to hear, especially from my
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: audience in Detroit and across Michigan. You've got to get
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: and go to work for Mike Rogers because this man
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: is dangerous. Abdu'l-Sayed is dangerous and outside the norms of
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: American politics. Ben Dominich is not dangerous. He's fun. Follow
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: him at BDominich. Listen to Big Ben Podcast, read The
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Daily Wire, and come right back. Welcome back, America. Hugh
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: Hewitt with, as promised, Senator Ted Cruz, who has authored
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: a terrific new book, Going further, the incomparable Clarence Thomas. Senator,
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: this is really fabulous. I want to begin by asking
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: the nine hours of interviews you did, did you keep
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: the tapes? Are they going to the Supreme Court Historical
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Society or the Cruz Presidential Library?
• 53:15
  Speaker 5: Well, Hugh, I don't know the answer to that.
• 53:17
  Speaker 11: I did keep the tapes, and I will say they
• 53:19
  Speaker 11: were fabulous, and I'm not sure what we'll end up
• 53:22
  Speaker 11: doing with them, but it was a very kind interview.
• 53:25
  Speaker 11: of Justice Thomas to agree to sit for them. And
• 53:28
  Speaker 11: it was two years ago is when I started writing
• 53:30
  Speaker 11: this book. And I went to him, went to his
• 53:32
  Speaker 11: chambers and said, I wanted to tell his story. I
• 53:34
  Speaker 11: wanted to tell his story for a new generation of Americans,
• 53:37
  Speaker 11: many of whom don't know it.
• 53:40
  Speaker 5: And I asked if he would sit and be interviewed.
• 53:43
  Speaker 5: And it was interesting.
• 53:44
  Speaker 11: He kind of sat back and he said, you know, Ted,
• 53:48
  Speaker 11: if it was anyone else who was asking, if you
• 53:51
  Speaker 11: were a law professor, he said, I'd say no.
• 53:53
  Speaker 5: But he said, because it's you, I'll do it. And
• 53:57
  Speaker 5: I appreciate that very much.
• 53:59
  Speaker 11: I do think my background is relatively unique in terms
• 54:04
  Speaker 11: of being able to do this and that I started
• 54:06
  Speaker 11: my career as a law clerk at the Supreme Court,
• 54:09
  Speaker 11: clerking for Chief Justice Rehnquist. I spent over a decade
• 54:12
  Speaker 11: as a litigator arguing cases before the Supreme Court, some
• 54:15
  Speaker 11: of the biggest cases in the country. And then for
• 54:18
  Speaker 11: the last 14 years, I've been in the Senate on
• 54:21
  Speaker 11: the Senate Judiciary Committee and I've been intimately involved in
• 54:24
  Speaker 11: every judicial confirmation.
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: For the last 14 years.
• 54:27
  Speaker 11: And so I think with that background, I hope that
• 54:31
  Speaker 11: I brought the background to be able to tell his
• 54:35
  Speaker 11: story in a way that was thorough and serious and real,
• 54:39
  Speaker 11: but also that was fun and accessible and people could
• 54:43
  Speaker 11: really understand Who is Clarence Thomas? And the nine and
• 54:47
  Speaker 11: a half hours of interviews, he was candid.
• 54:49
  Speaker 5: He was honest. He shared his heart. And a lot
• 54:52
  Speaker 5: of that is interwoven throughout the book.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: You did a great job. Let me throw you some flowers.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: I interviewed the justice for a couple hours when my
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: grandfather's son came out. That's almost 20 years ago. There's
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of new stuff in here. And it reminded
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: me of some of the most compelling parts of his
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: early story. But I'm going to go to the later
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: part just to tease the book a little bit. Again,
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: the book's title is going further. You've got to say
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: it at least seven times in every segment or people
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: won't remember going further. And I'm not going to start
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: with the dormant commerce clause on pages 234 to 236
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: because we don't want to kill sales for the book.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Let's start with the fun stuff inside the court. For example,
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: what he calls the dysfunctional family. You can tell the
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: Stephen Breyer in the supermarket story. You can tell the
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: Justice O'Connor in the Motorhome. You can even tell the
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Motorhome and David Souter. Just don't tell the front porch story,
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: which I've already told to three people.
• 55:48
  Speaker 11: Well, look, the court is a small institution, and it's
• 55:53
  Speaker 11: an institution of nine human beings. They almost operate like
• 55:57
  Speaker 11: nine law firms that happen to be housed in the
• 55:59
  Speaker 11: same building.
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: And Clarence Thomas right now is the.
• 56:03
  Speaker 11: Second longest serving Supreme Court justice in history. In less
• 56:07
  Speaker 11: than two years, he will become the longest serving justice.
• 56:11
  Speaker 11: And so when he arrived.
• 56:13
  Speaker 5: He was just 42 years old. He was the young guy.
• 56:16
  Speaker 11: He was serving with men and women that were old
• 56:18
  Speaker 11: enough to be his parents. He's now been there over
• 56:23
  Speaker 11: 30 years. He's the senior justice there. And his experience
• 56:28
  Speaker 11: What is fascinating, you know, I try to do three
• 56:31
  Speaker 11: things in this book. Number one, I try to lay
• 56:34
  Speaker 11: out his personal journey from abject poverty, facing withering racism,
• 56:39
  Speaker 11: going to seminary, wanting to be a priest, getting disillusioned
• 56:42
  Speaker 11: with the church, growing angry at God, becoming a left-wing
• 56:47
  Speaker 11: radical in college and law school, and ultimately going from
• 56:52
  Speaker 11: poverty to the very pinnacle of law. That journey is breathtaking,
• 56:56
  Speaker 11: as you noted, Justice Thomas' autobiography, My Grandfather's Son, tells
• 57:00
  Speaker 11: it beautifully. Secondly, I try to chronicle the intellectual journey.
• 57:06
  Speaker 11: From angry young man, left-wing radical in college, he had
• 57:10
  Speaker 11: camo pants and combat boots and a poster of Malcolm
• 57:14
  Speaker 11: X on the wall, and he was going to Black
• 57:16
  Speaker 11: Panther rallies. He was part of a riot in Harvard Square.
• 57:20
  Speaker 11: all the way to becoming one of the most important
• 57:23
  Speaker 11: conservative thinkers ever to have lived. That intellectual journey is fascinating.
• 57:27
  Speaker 11: I try to walk you along it. But then third
• 57:32
  Speaker 11: is the 30-plus years of his jurisprudence. He is one
• 57:37
  Speaker 11: of the most consequential justices to have ever lived, and
• 57:40
  Speaker 11: I try to take his opinions, his dissents, which have
• 57:43
  Speaker 11: been incredibly powerful, but also his majority opinions, and explain
• 57:47
  Speaker 11: them in real terms so that you don't need to
• 57:50
  Speaker 11: be an expert, you don't need to be a lawyer.
• 57:52
  Speaker 11: I try to write a book so that a smart
• 57:54
  Speaker 11: high school student can read it and understand it and get,
• 57:57
  Speaker 11: why does this matter for me? And, you know, the
• 58:01
  Speaker 11: stories that you're referencing, when Justice Thomas first got on
• 58:06
  Speaker 11: the court, there were very collegial, there were very warm
• 58:09
  Speaker 11: relationships between all the justices.
• 58:12
  Speaker 5: That has frayed.
• 58:13
  Speaker 11: The current court, sadly, is more political, and that collegiality
• 58:17
  Speaker 11: has waned, and the book describes that decline.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: I'll be right back with Senator Cruz. Don't go anywhere, America.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: I'm Hugh Hewitt. Welcome back. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Senator Ted
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: Cruz has written a wonderful book, Going Further, The Incomparable
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas. I read it in six hours over last
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: night and this morning. It is that kind of a read. Now,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: I've been teaching common law for 37 years, and so
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: some of it I was wondering, how's he going to
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: do this? You did a great job. You answered a
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: question I did not know. Is it possible to be
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: too obsequious in a Supreme Court brief? I didn't know
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: you argued Van Orden. But I always teach Van Orden.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: I say, you know, I don't know how this turned out.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: Now I know. I'll have my students read that. But
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: before I go back to the book, I've got about
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: seven more minutes with you. I want to ask, yesterday,
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: Vice President Vance was having some fun at the front
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: of the room, and he said, Clearly Ted is an
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: authentic and very likable guy. I'm sure he'll do great.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: Were those the first political shots? fired in 2028? Oh,
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 59:13
  Speaker 5: J.D. should feel free to express whatever he wants.
• 59:16
  Speaker 11: Look, I'm focused on 60 days from now we have
• 59:20
  Speaker 11: a midterm, and we've got to win the Senate.
• 59:24
  Speaker 5: We've got to win the House. It is a very
• 59:26
  Speaker 5: real fight.
• 59:27
  Speaker 11: And so I'm crisscrossing the country right now campaigning for
• 59:31
  Speaker 11: Senate candidates, for House candidates, for more than a decade
• 59:35
  Speaker 11: that there has been no Republican in the country who
• 59:37
  Speaker 11: has campaigned for more Senate candidates, House candidates, and gubernatorial
• 59:40
  Speaker 11: candidates than I have.
• 59:43
  Speaker 5: And, Hugh, I've never.
• 59:44
  Speaker 11: Seen a midterm election where the stakes are higher than these.
• 59:47
  Speaker 5: Are right now.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: And you're working hard online for Ken Paxton. I appreciate it.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: I was a John Cornyn guy, but I see what
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: you're doing. Good on that. Quick second and last political question.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: If you run for president, and I expect others like
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis and Secretary Pompeo and maybe Secretary Burgum and
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: maybe Secretary Besson and maybe Vice President Vance, I want
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of debate, a lot of debates, because we
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: have a lot of smart candidates. Do you want a
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: lot of debates, and how soon should they start?
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 11: Look, I'm a big believer in political debates. I think
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 11: the candidates owe that to the voters. I think it's
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 11: a chance to have a contrast between the records of
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 11: the candidates, who they are, what they believe, and not
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 11: just what they say they believe, but what their actual
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 11: record is, what they've done. I also think we're at
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 11: a time in our party where there is a real
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 11: divide and a debate to be had. Who are we
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 11: and what do we stand for? There's a divide economically.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 11: Are we a small government free market conservative party or
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 11: are we a big government nanny state party?
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 5: That's a really big divide.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 11: Those are very different philosophies of government and policy. Likewise,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 11: on foreign policy, I think there's a very real debate.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 11: Are we an isolationist party that wants to just withdraw
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 11: from the world or do we believe in American leadership
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 11: in the world? And again, that goes right to the
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 11: heart of who we are as Republicans, who we are
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 11: as Americans.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 5: I have every.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 11: Confidence We're going to have that debate, and we're going
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 11: to resolve that first as a party, as Republicans, who
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 11: we are and what we believe, and ultimately as a country.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 11: And I will say, Donald Trump has been an extraordinary president.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 11: He has brought boldness and courage. My favorite attribute about
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 11: President Trump is he has a cast-iron backbone.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 5: He is not afraid.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 11: That's something so many of us have longed for Republican
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 11: leaders that have courage. I've been Donald Trump's strongest ally
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 11: in the Senate for 10 years. And I think we're
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 11: going to have a debate about what fundamentally do we
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 11: believe as a party. That debate's going to play out
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 11: over the next several years.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: And can it play out with the civility of the
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: old court? Now, I don't want to give people too
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: much away here in the book about going further and
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas, but the court has changed and you write
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: about it, not only in their opinions, but in what
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: is their perceived collegiality and that dysfunctional. Can the Republicans
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: have that debate? and stay within the dysfunctional family without going, say,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: take to the sea, can they stay there?
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 5: Look, I certainly hope so.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 11: My approach to politics has always been disagree on policy
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 11: or substance, yes, but don't go into the gutter, don't
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 11: attack people's character. And by the way, that's not just Republicans.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 11: That's how I try to interact with Democrats. It's why
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 11: I do a podcast, Verdict with Ted Cruz, We've got
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 11: millions of listeners that listen to the Verdict podcast and
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 11: actually Justice Thomas was a guest on the Verdict podcast
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 11: to talk about the book going further. It was the
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 11: first podcast he's ever done in his life. He was
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 11: on for an hour and 20 minutes. I'd encourage you,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 11: you can watch it on YouTube. It's a fascinating interview.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 11: But I think all of us should treat each other
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 11: with civility and decency. Doesn't mean we should roll over
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 11: and say when someone is advancing policies that are harmful
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 11: that we should be afraid to.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 5: Say That's a bad idea. That'd be bad for America.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 11: But we can do it with a little bit of grace,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 11: a little bit of civility, and respect the dignity of
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 11: each other.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: Now, I learned from this book. I've got to read
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: a book called Reconstruction, America's Unfinished Revolution by Eric Foner.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: I have never heard of it, but Justice Thomas tells
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: you anyone who practices law in the United States needs
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: to understand Reconstruction. That's really kind of an eye-opener to me.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: Were you taken.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 5: Aback by that?
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 11: You know, I was, and there's no scholar on the
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 11: court who is more deeply invested and educated in the
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 11: process of Reconstruction. And look, for folks that are not
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 11: historians or lawyers, we obviously had a civil war, a
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 11: bloody civil war that ripped this country apart, and afterwards
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 11: we came back together, and we passed the Civil War Amendments,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 11: the 13th Amendment, which ended slavery.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 5: The 14th Amendment, which.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 11: Protected equal protection for all Americans, and the 15th Amendment,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 11: which protected the right to vote for all.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 5: Americans regardless of race.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 11: And then the process, the 20 to 30 years that
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 11: followed the Civil War, was called Reconstruction. How we rebuilt,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 11: how we came back and came back to being one nation,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 11: and also how we overcame the legacy of slavery and
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 11: the disgraces of decisions like Dred Scott, well, a big change.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 11: The 14th Amendment, prior to the 14th Amendment, the Bill
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 11: of Rights only constrained the federal government. If you look
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 11: at the terms of the Bill of Rights, the First
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 11: Amendment begins with Congress shall make no law. And so
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 11: for the first hundred plus years of our nation's history,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 11: there was no dispute. States could make laws that violated
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 11: the Bill of Rights. It was only the federal government
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 11: that could not. With the 14th Amendment, that began to
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 11: change And the Bill of Rights has been what's called
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 11: incorporated against the states. I explain that because Justice Thomas
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 11: has focused a great deal on what's called the Privileges
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 11: or Immunities Clause. He thinks much of incorporation was done wrong. And,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 11: for example, I talk about his concurrence in McDonald v.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 11: City of Chicago, where he looks to whether the Second Amendment,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 11: the right to keep and bear arms, whether it binds
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 11: the states... And he concludes that it does because it
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 11: is a privilege or immunity of being a citizen of
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 11: the United States. And he goes back to the history
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 11: of Reconstruction. It's this incredible scholarly opinion, and I quote
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 11: from important sections of it, where he looks at and says, look,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 11: you had Klansmen that were marauding against freed slaves, and
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 11: the right to keep and bear arms is how they
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 11: protected their life and their safety.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 5: It was a fundamental right.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 11: It's one of the things that makes Justice Thomas such
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 11: an important Supreme Court justice.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: I think he's right, but I think he'll never persuade
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: four other members of the court of that. Stand by, America.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: I'll be back with Clarence Thomas' book written by Senator
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: Ted Cruz. I am back now with Senator Ted Cruz. Senator,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: we've got a short segment. You do such a good
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: job of making accessible for laymen Supreme Court jurisprudence, but
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: you hid the ball from me a couple of times.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas wants to go further on Establishment Clause jurisprudence.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: They've gotten there. They've repealed Lemon. Did you just talk
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: about my two favorite bogeymen, Employment Division v. Smith, which
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: is the Justice Scalia 1990 case before he got there,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: and then not just Kelo, but Village of Euclid v.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 5: Ambler?
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: We've got to go back to the 100-year era. Does
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: he want to go back that far and rip those
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: bad decisions out by the roots?
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 11: So, look, I will tell you, I didn't talk about
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 11: Employment Division v. Smith in significant part because RFRA ended
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 11: up pulling back from where Smith was, so it's less
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 11: of a live issue. Kelo, I discussed at real length,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 11: and I actually think Kelo is a decision that is
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 11: a great example of Clarence Thomas' influence. So Kelo involved
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 11: a woman in New London, Connecticut, Suzette Kelo, who the
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 11: city came to take her home, her family home. She'd
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 11: lived in it for decades, and they condemned her home.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 11: They took her home. Now, the Constitution, the Fifth Amendment,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 11: provides that private property may be taken for public use
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 11: with just compensation. So the government can take your home,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 11: but they have to compensate you fairly. But the language
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 11: is taken for public use. In this instance, the city
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 11: was not condemning her home because they wanted to build a.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 5: Road or a highway or a school or a courthouse.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 5: That would be public use. That would be permissible.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 11: No, what it wanted to do was build a parking
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 11: lot for Pfizer, the giant pharmaceutical company that wanted to
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 11: build an office.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 5: Building nearby and wanted a parking lot.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 11: And the politicians in the city council said, we like
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 11: Pfizer better than we like Miss Kilo, we're going to
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 11: take her house.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 5: And she filed a lawsuit. It went all the way
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 5: to the Supreme Court.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 11: And Clarence Thomas wrote a dissent where he said, look,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 11: the Constitution said public use, and yet decades.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 5: Of Supreme Court decisions.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 11: Had replaced the words public use with a much broader
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 11: public purpose.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 5: Now, purpose means just about anything.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 11: In this instance, they could say, look, we're going to
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 11: get more tax revenue from the parking lot than your
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 11: house gives us, so that's a public purpose. And Justice
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 11: Thomas says, well, look, that's all fine and good, but
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 11: it's not what the Constitution says. And he writes an
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 11: incredibly scholarly opinion that actually goes back on the history
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 11: of condemnations being used against the most vulnerable, being used
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 11: against those that don't have the ability to defend themselves.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 11: And this is where Justice Thomas, growing up in rural
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 11: Georgia in poverty, he had friends and neighbors who couldn't read,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 11: who would have their homes taken by unscrupulous players taking.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 5: Advantage of them.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 11: So the Constitution's protections on our home and our private
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 11: property are really important.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 5: It's an interesting example, Hugh. He dissented.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 11: It was 5-4. He did not prevail. John Paul Stevens
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 11: wrote the majority. But it's a great example where he
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 11: won by losing because his reasoning in the dissent was
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 11: so powerful, so persuasive, that I think he's won the
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 11: argument nationally. Many states, including my home state of Texas,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 11: have passed laws codifying what he put in his dissent,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 11: saying you cannot in Texas condemn private property for a
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 11: public purpose. It must be specifically a public use, something
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 11: the public will use like a road or a school
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 11: or a courthouse. Not only that, I'm going to make
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 11: a prediction to you, Hugh. If the right case goes
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 11: to the court that presents the question to the court,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 11: I believe the court is going to overturn Kelo and
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 11: adopt the reasoning of Justice Thomas' dissent. I think that's
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 11: going to happen, and we just need the right vehicle.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 11: to present the case to the court.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: I agree with you, and I hope they go back
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: and overturn Village of Euclid v. Ambler Realty. Going further
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: is what the court needs to do. Ted Cruz has
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: written a bestseller. If you want to come back next week, Senator,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: I can talk to you for hours about this fabulous work.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: Thank you for your time today, Senator Ted Cruz.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 5: Thank you, Hugh.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 11: I appreciate it, and I hope you buy the book
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 11: and enjoy the book and buy it as a gift
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 11: for your kids and your grandkids because it's a really
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 11: fun read, and I think it'll inspire them. Clarence Thomas
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 11: is a hero and a role model. That's why I
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 11: wrote the book.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: Amen to that. All of it times two.