Latest / The Good Builder Podcast / The Daily Dose #343 | James Drever: How QA Build Became the Fastest Growing Builder in Queensland

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The Daily Dose #343 | James Drever: How QA Build Became the Fastest Growing Builder in Queensland · The Good Builder Podcast

• Az (00:00) This episode is brought to you by The Pulse from Australian Building Research. This will show you how every customer feels before they even tell you. The program tracks the heartbeat of customer satisfaction and team performance across every job in real time. So you fix the small stuff before it becomes a bad review, a variation blowout, or a client who won't refer you. Get in touch with them today, head to Australian Building Research.com.au. And find out more about the pulse, they will do a little trial for you. So go and check them out. All right, let's get into it. Az (00:58) Good morning and welcome to the Good Builder Podcast. I'm going to start this one a little bit differently because years ago, when I left a job, they told me that they're going to find someone 10% better than me. And it stuck with me, not because it hurt, but because I never believed it. I always believed that people were, you know, the heart and soul of businesses and the success. Or not success of a business can fall on the people that you have in there. And I tell you what, I got to have lunch with a pretty freaking impressive gentleman the other week. his name is James Drever CEO of QA Build, and he made me believe that you know my gut instinct was true. Like this gentleman has done things that But I'd I'd dreamed of. I'll I've I've wanted to do. he's doing things the entire industry wants to do, and they are the fastest growing builder in Queensland. the stuff that we talked about just energized me from the way he holds himself, the way he talks about mindset, and the way he actually supported me when I was sitting there looking at this gentleman, going, my god, I'm meeting this rock star and I want to be just like you. But he said, you know, you found your niche, keep plugging away, keep having a Shot. Mate, now they are the fastest growing builder in Queensland and the biggest builder in Queensland. I reckon they're going to be the biggest builder in Australia. The called QA build, quality assured build, so beyond the scale, they build to the best standard that we have in the industry, and they're doing it at scale, which is extra hard. This gentleman started off as a chippy, went through As a national building manager at Gem Life, which is impressive in itself, and now he's the CEO, as I said, of QA Build. And what makes them interesting is the scale and, as I said, quality and quality of the gentleman I'm about to talk to. So, mate, I was a bit nervous before this pod. I actually forgot to press record, didn't I, mate? and and started the intro. But I think I'm good now. Nerves are calming, and I am so pumped to welcome. one of my heroes. I I'll I'm happy to say that now after meeting you, mate, like you're an icon to me, you're a legend. I really appreciate your time. James, how are you? I'm good. Yeah. You probably haven't been called that before, mate, but you know, I I'm a bit of a weird bloke and and people kinda know that. But I I I started this thing The Good Builder because I admired, you know, what the great builders are doing out there and people like yourself. And I thought we need to shine light on these people. Like the celebrities get all the media attention. I reckon blokes like you should get the media attention. So that's why I started this thing. And yeah, we just thought I'd bring you on here today to get to know, you know, get the the community to know a little bit more about you, how you do what you do, which as I said at that lunch I was just blown away. I walked away going. Mate, that was like the coolest stuff I've ever heard. and yeah, so where did it kind of all start for you, James? And it's quite interesting because where you are now wasn't where you sort of started as a kid. No. No well. Started back here on the coast and back then builders were builders when they had an apprentices. So, you know, doing full stick frames, you're doing your timber fascia and gutter, installing your own roofs, like that's what your trade was. Yeah. So growing up and then and I never thought I would ever when I was on the tools doing would I wanna then be where I am now. But that's the journey. Sometimes we always don't know the path we're gonna be on. Yeah. You just take each day as come and you take it an opportunity when you see it and someone sees that in you. That's the key. Someone sees something in you and you gotta then take it and believe it yourself. Yeah, yeah. Well it was kind of a a really interesting journey, as I said. and what we talked about beforehand and something that you're very passionate about is inspiring the youth and all of that sort of thing, James. And and you know, we won't go too deep into what you sort of said to me at that particular lunch, but you were talking about, you know, you're a bit of A obviously a great surfer and you're kind of into that and you didn't know where you were gonna go. And then you you know, and now being the CEA s CEO, sorry, of Q Build, and then now running a few programs and different things like that. Like how how did you transition and what how did that all kind of come about as well? I think it was when I look back at everything now and Through where I was growing through the industry and taking over different roles and going in, there was still a key factor that always played of mind that, you know, when COVID hit, it was probably one of the worst times, I think, in the world's history. But also everyone thought that it would turn the opposite way, like, everyone's gonna be home, but the building industry didn't. We got turned on our head and it's never, never recovered basically since, and it's just been on this crazy trajectory. But when you looked at what was coming through the industry. Of the young talent and everything else, carpentry has changed and evolved and it's not what it was. Yeah. And what scares me is I sit there and think, what does it look like for us in 30 years? Yeah. No one's talking about that is where will we be in 30 years' time with what we're bringing through the industry? Yeah. Kids aren't interested to do the apprenticeships. Yeah. Well, why? That's the first question is why? No one's asking that question. No. No. You know, you look at the numbers of when lockies. Like I fully believe that is going to be a trade that becomes obsolete. Yeah. Yeah. There's not enough people, there's not enough kids that want to go through. Yeah. We've got to start reinventing what that was. But you know, we hear everything say the old school way for a reason. The old school way worked. Yeah. It worked for a hundred years prior to us and it will still continue. We've got to go back to that fundamental. We've got to bring some of that back in. So that's where we've basically launched and gone, well, you know what? We want to grow our own. Yeah. So we've reached out and we've partnered with CSQ and we're basically doing our own trade college. So there's some other big guys out there too. But when I say trade college, it's not just am I focusing on carpentry. I want to focus on every single element and bring back because the older generation that have taught we're they're they're leaving. Yeah. They're coming to their cycle. Yeah. So that's what scares me is when you think in thirty years' time, well, who's teaching? Yeah. Who's bringing that through? No one's got that generation of knowledge anymore. So it's about bringing that back in. I love it. And getting into the schools. Getting out and talking to the schools where that next generation is. Because what are all kids taught? We're all taught the same thing by parents. Yeah. Start here, go to university. But there's some kids there that I was they were told ADHD. Yeah. You know, but that didn't stop me. I just wasn't a kid. That was designed to do school, yeah. But a trade was so there's not enough around that. So there is those kids there that you can get from the schools and then give them a career path. So we have tried trade days where you get people in, you bring them to a site, and because we're so integrated in our business model that we have our own Sybils, we have our own commercial, we have our own residential. You can offer a diverse range to people where not a lot of businesses have that, yeah. But that's where you can get. And you see the excitement in some of these people. And we're not also just doing that tri-trade where it's about just kids. You've got people that are leaving outside businesses now, they're in their late 30s, 40s, going, you know what? I never thought that that's something I'd want to do. Yeah. Like that's cool to see that now. But we're giving that facilities and implementing it so that we can do that now anywhere across Australia. I love it. You know what, James? and I've mentioned this once on the pod before, but I was speaking with the QBCC once and I said, What The biggest issue with with the building industry. and again, we were, you know, I was expecting land, I was expecting red tape, I was expecting the answer to this, and this particular lady in the QBCC, I've got a lot of time for a lot of respect for. not everyone loves the QBCC, but this lady I've got a lot of respect for, and and I do have a lot of respect for the QBCC itself. And she said to me, capturing the knowledge of the people that are leaving the industry. Correct. That's what the number one thing. And I was just blown away going. And I probably sounded like that lady on that movie, and then and you know, but I was like, and then and she was like, No, that's basically it. Correct. We've got a bunch of great builders and people who are taught by either the old school way, as you say, all the old school builders themselves that are leaving the industry and we're gonna lose all of that and we're gonna be in dead. Yeah. Nowhere. There is gone, isn't it? Well, you look back right through the history, the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, immigration was a huge part. Yeah. Italians, Greeks, Croatians, some of the hardest workers you'll ever see. Yeah. But the knowledge that they brought in, but what we had in Australia, it combined. But that's dying. Yeah. And that's what's scary. And that's why I say the next 30 years. So for me, if I can make a change now before it's too late, but then And also I want anyone to know that if we've had those kids come through or adults women, women's a huge factor too, coming into it, we wanted to really tap into. But if we can make a change where out of it. They stay with us or they go to somewhere else. Someone goes, Wow, the quality of what that was was something that I never thought that I'd get. Yeah. That means I've left a legacy behind that will continue to grow, that you can develop that quality, a caliber of people. Because trade isn't about the dollar. To me, a trade was about you wanting to be the best at your craft. Yeah. Yeah. And you were pride and proud to be that. That's what needs to come back. Yeah. Because whenever you spoke to a brick. you watch them you're like wow the way they could slice a brick easy a plaster how they set like yeah everything is an art and to me what we build is an art yeah and I think that's what's been lost along the way is you talk about quality everywhere. For me we have a philosophy and it was handed down through the Pullidge family. If it's not good enough for our own family, then it's not good enough for our clients. Yeah. Wow. And that is what the philosophy for us at QA Builder Quality is sure. We would if it's not good enough for our own, then it's not good enough for our clients. Mate, you have one thing that I was really impressed with when I left and you don't really need to impress me, but was like your vision. And you talk a lot about leaving a legacy. We don't I don't talk to a lot of builders being honest with you. And and I I you're relatively young to be honest with you, that talk about leaving a legacy. Yeah. Yeah, you both don't feel it, because you've been going so hard, and you are one of the hardest workers out there as well. I must say I you know, we don't need to go into that, but mate, you are an absolute monster when it comes comes to getting things done. And that's why I started the pod that way too. Like I I really thought over the last couple of weeks since meeting you and I had this sort of generic beginning and I was like, wait a minute. You know, no, like you're a really special person. And there are other special people out there. But you know, I think it's really key to highlight people. And and and you know, I I love that you've got this philosophy of leaving a legacy. What's kind of the bigger vision for QA build and and like What are you doing there now to set it up for success for the future, if you don't mind me asking? Nah, good question. Yeah. So the legacy is probably been the biggest one for me of being able to have that right. That you can build a product, a system that will continue through time. You don't need to overcomplicate things in life. Life is hard enough as it is. Yeah. So there's a great philosophy, do keep with it, keep it simple, stupid. Yeah. Because then it doesn't cause issues. People don't have to go out. You create too many obstacles and everything else, it creates production loss. So that's where all that philosophy comes. So in it through COVID, I guess we go back a bit. COVID was a real hard time for every builder. Yeah. Roofing became really a big problem. Mother Nature didn't help us with the biggest hailstorm that came through. Off it went. Yeah. So you have to grow and adapt. And I think the biggest thing I learned and was starting to understand was is see a roadblock. Okay, what are we gonna do about the roadblock? Remove the roadblock. What did that look like? Well, if it's a place where it's a business that is not able to supply because they're going everywhere else, well, I'll just buy that business and I'll just then take over myself. When that philosophy started to come, that's where I started to realise well, you know what? There's pathways that no one looks at, no one thinks about, where I went, This is how I then get to the success of where we are. Remove the roadblock, take control of the roadblock, there is no more roadblock. So on that journey we we basically integrated now, so we have our own solar, electrical and air conditioning business incorporated inside. We have our cabinetry business. And we bought a cabinetry business that basically had a staff of about 15. We're now 55 plus. And we're punching out 60 to 70 kitchens a month out of the same size, but robotics are playing a key factor now. So researching, finding more ways that you can be able to still produce and do but do it at scale, but you're in control of your own destiny. I don't want someone else to be controlling my destiny or for my team or for our clients. I want to know that we can control that destiny for them so we can deliver no matter what. I think I want people to rewind that bit. Like all the things that you you talk about, the roadblocks, the way you go through it. And that was the thing that I left it with when speaking to you, James. I was like, there's nothing that's really gonna stop you guys. You're gonna find a way. and and you know, not bring it back to personality, but I think there's a certain personality trait and then obviously culture that you build in the team that enables a builder to be able to do that. Yeah. How how did you build that kind of like I'm just fascinated with how you've done it? How did you build that kind of kind of momentum in this. You built enormous trust in yourself as CEO and then built enormous trust amongst your team to kind of do this stuff. And I know you work super hard, but I how many builds do you have going on at the moment? You you probably are across them all, but you can't be across them all as well. So currently right now Australia, there's 15 16 projects live. It's a headache, but it's one of the best headaches. No day, no day is the same day for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love what we do, but the biggest thing I think I've found in business, and you don't get taught all this stuff. Like, to be honest, I don't think there's anyone that grows up through the industry, and they're like, I went through and I did a course. and understand how to do this. You have it in you. It's about people acknowledging and seeing, but you've got to be able to see it in your staff. You've got to see that potential and be willing to take the risk with them, but put them on a journey with you. For me, hiring like-minded people. If you have that, then the passion, how you are, your energy, your feeling progresses through to your stuff because they feed off it and they want to do better. Yeah. You know, there's times we all sit there and we collaborate a lot. Yeah, yeah. You've got to really invest the time. Like I was saying earlier, you know, like You talk about cultures and workplaces, that was a huge thing to learn. And I've made mistakes along the way, but you learn from your mistake. If you're not willing to learn from your mistake, then you'll just keep making the same mistakes and you'll go nowhere. Yeah. So you've got to be willing to know when you've made a bad, but also look when you've made a good. Yeah. Yeah. You've got to be able to sit in both of them and go, okay, cool. I did good here, I did bad, but there was still the good that came from it. Yeah. It's a yin and the yang. There's always a positive, negative, and everything. Hundred percent. So having that and having and I've got some of the best staff. I treat them like family. To me, staff isn't just staff, they're my family. Yeah. And some people will probably think, well, you know, no, I will never treat my staff that they're just a ticket or a number. No, we're not that. RCO Adrian love the family, love the Pulitch family, they're one of the best families that I could ever have asked to work for. That's cool. But there would vibe how he is, and he's got one of his favourite and his best saying ever. Just get it done. Yeah. I love it. I love it. And it's the philosophy that we live, eat, and go by. Yeah. Just get it done. And we have, and that's why we're keeping the goals. You know, it's funny when you look at the statistics and what's coming through and you know, there's not enough recognition because you know, I love everything. Other build, what everyone does. Yeah. But yeah, we are kicking the goals, but we're not getting the recognition in the industry. No, but we're not out for it either. Yeah. You know what I mean? We're not sitting there to go, we're the top, but we are, I think we're right now. We took Brighton off fifth. Yeah. But it's not being published, it's not being shown. But the data's there, but we don't sit there and go, Well, no, make it. We're just doing what we do. Yeah. We love what we do. Yeah. Yeah. And we're not just building homes where you're just putting someone in. We build communities. Yeah. Lifestyles. Yeah. Yeah. And that was. The other cool thing that you spoke about that I think just from a whole business and even marketing perspective when you're talking down at lunch, again, you just you know where you've come from, where you're going and and the vision and everything, it just blew me away. I thought it was really cool the way you spoke about that. And it and it is a different concept to just building a home, isn't it? Correct. It's totally different. You're building for me when you build for someone, you that person's putting the trust, their faith, and their belief in your product. Yeah. So who am I to turn around and not give them what they've paid me for? Yeah, wow. You're there to give them and for what we do in our demographic, you know, it could potentially be their last home forever. Yeah. So the least I can do is make sure I'm giving them the best of what they deserve for the end of the time. They've done their time through for us in Australia. So the least I can do is give them that back. And at Gemlife that's what they provide. It's not about us, it's about the lifestyles and the communities That are built. Hmm. Yeah, fascinating, mate. Well, as you've grown so quickly and you are the fastest growing builder in Queensland right now, that's true. The stats, Australian construction data, I used to be part of that business and sold it off. But they reported that you guys are the biggest, and that is pure QBCC data based on builds, and it is the right data. What were some of the weaknesses, but maybe some of the kinks that you saw along the way as you were scaling the business. Was it about that control and that that you spoke about before you needed more control over things because you wanted to deliver a more superior product to the market or or what was it? A bit of both. A bit of both. Yeah. we've still got like you look at everything from COVID, COVID's still playing a key factor with councils. There's not enough people in them to A get the permits. We've seen it everywhere. Builders everywhere across Queensland will be saying that now, like land releases, hold ups, you know. But again, who's responsible for this? The governments and the councils, but the councils don't have enough staff to get through, but they've got enough red tape coming from the government. They're wanting us to build houses. Yeah. But they're also roadblocking at the same time. So how do you meant to do something? So So for us, okay, we work with that, but we push hard every day. Same thing, you find a robot there, go around until you find another one that releases it and gets it open. My job is to make sure that when I get told we're good to go, well we're ready. Yeah. We'll never not be ready. It's about making sure keep it simple, stupid, works. So our business model is very structured. And for me too, we're a business that, you know, I wanted a a business that ran that, you know, we're we released anywhere to nearly a hundred jobs a month. Wow. Our offers reduce. producers and the site teams are producing. Now in that we land bank. So when I say land bank, I want to turn around that I'm two months ahead of construction at all times. So from a drafting, an estimating architecture, interiors, that whole team's always working, but they're working two months in advance of what we are right now. Right. We're always working a year in front so that you're always progressing. So that you're not being reactive. So something happens, you're not just, I've got to fix it now. You're already ahead of it because that's where the key success has come from. Yeah. Forward thinking. Forward planning is the key and having it too that say you know you don't want to talk, but like say you lose an estimator, yeah. That can cripple a business pretty quick. But if I'm 20 jobs in front, I've got two months now that I don't have to worry about what's gone aside. I've now got two months to find a replacement. Do other people think and run? No. No, that's what we see a lot in the industry, hey James. And this is why, again, I was I was you know, quite fascinated with the way you run the business and the way that QA and Gem Life run. a lot of the industry is quite reactive in the way it reacts to things. Even, you know, you're you're very proactive in the way you think about the the wider macro environmental stuff that goes on. And you're looking at that and you're wondering what's that gonna look like in 30 years. You look at the apprenticeship stuff as we just talked about. What are we what is My working team, when I retire, what's that going to look like? That's how you think. And that's fascinating. So when you kind of are talking about future proofing QA build and and and doing more of that sort of stuff in terms of construction. What else are you doing in that space? In like you were talking about the robotics. I'll be able to talk about that robotics we can touch on. We can touch on a bit. And I can cut this bit if you want, change. So we have been in the background for nearly four years now, developing and looking at it because we know that the Olympics is coming. And We all know the government doesn't want to talk about it right now of You know, they're still telling us we need to produce all these houses. So let's be realistic, let's talk about what does that really look like for the building industry. Yeah. And pretty bullshit that the government doesn't want to support us, help, but they're gonna suck this business dry to make sure that they can build a stadium for the Olympics. Well, what about the rest of the taxpayers and the people that live, eat and breathe in Australia that want homes, but we can't because there's not enough workforce. Yeah. So yeah, we were preempting and going. So So how do you do to still achieve the numbers that you need to do, but you want to go bigger? Yeah. And when I say bigger, like we want to be growing astronomically, and you've seen that, we are. So I want to go bigger. So for me, it's looking at and there's a race for sips. We're all watching, everyone's looking. So, you know, we're talking four years ago, we came up with an idea. And we've been working way and thinking at that. Now, in that, there's some that I'll talk, but the main thing is for me, when you think sips, what do you think right now? A house that sits on the back of a truck and it's complete. Yeah. But it's not because you need either two or three of them to combine together, don't you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you know, I love what the others are doing in Australia. Like, take my hat off to everyone that thinks out of the square and is wanting to do. But for me, I sat there and went, hmm, okay. I think we're looking at the wrong way because you're still only producing one. Where I want to be able to produce three, four homes on one truck. Yeah. Fire out. So in that and ship it out, now that gets me excited. So we've done it, we've tested it, and now that will come in soon. The next legacy for me there. And in that, that's what will be able to curb what's coming, but also make sure I can still produce exactly the same product I'm doing right now, but at a scale from a manufacturing point of view. This is why I love the industry. People like you, and there's other businesses out there that take it on their own shoulders to improve the industry and actually. I don't know, maybe there's the wrong way to say it, but trying to achieve the g the goals, which are pretty freaking outlandish and roadblocked by a bunch of different stuff that is out of your control at times and you're finding ways to do it. Now, coming from being a chi this is, you know, coming from being a chippy, this is why like mate, you're one of the best leaders I've ever spoken to and one of the most forward-thinking business people, and I've worked in other industries. How has your kind of role changed now becoming CEO? Are you really always thinking about innovation, culture and those things? Or are you also driving the business operationally as well, James? All of it. All of it. You have to. How come? I I believe if you're not, you get complacent. You get complacent, you start to slip. I Our brains and no different how Adrian works, he doesn't stop thinking he's always about, just get it done. Let's grow, let's be better. Always improving. I believe if you're not always looking to improve and keep tinkering and going, you become a bit stagnant. And when you become a bit stagnant, things can pretty much start turning off. When you're at your peak, how do you keep at the peak? We've seen a lot of big businesses over the years, they do really well, but the culture factor plays a big factor there you can work for businesses and you go wow like they're a great company to work for and then a staff member come in saying happen and next minute it changes that dynamic that's where I'll never let that happen because I don't want that for the business. So that's where having again the like minded staff but checking with them always and giving them giving them that responsibility themselves that they can make change they can do. How do you make a decision when if you cripple them to not allow them to learned that they made that call. A right or a wrong. Yeah. You know, the philosophy when we're taught with kids is, you know, hot water. Yeah. Your parents tell you that's hot, don't touch. What do you do? Yeah. Well the only way you learn as a kid is you won't put your hand under the tap and you got burnt. Yeah. And you go, All right, now I know why my parents done with that. Yeah. Same philosophy for me with businesses, I'll give the tools, give the guidance. But it's okay, staff will make mistakes. Yeah. But as long as they learn from their mistakes then they understand and then they have that drive factor themselves. That want to go, okay, I won't do that again. Yeah. And they excel themselves and then they grow their own teams. Yeah, yeah. No, I love it. And you talk about this drive and stuff like that. And you constantly talk about this legacy, this drive, your vision, all these different things. And when we also sat down at lunch, you kind of just you described yourself as pretty intense. Yeah. If you don't mind me saying this on the podcast. And and like I think I said to you at the end of the lunch. I'm not going to confuse your intensity or or lack of better word, aggressiveness in the the space of getting shit done for passion. Correct. And I reckon that's that sums you up for me. Like you are the most passionate bloke I've ever met about this industry. And then you are actually doing stuff about it. Like you're doing it. You don't just talk shit about it. And you said to me another thing. You said to me, you know, a dangero it was not a dangerous man, but it was like you know, someone that you want to deal with can walk the walk and can also talk. Yep. And that's and and I think that defines you. Where where does all that like passion and everything come from? And where yeah, where did that come My grandfather I loved it as a great man, hard man. and basically I never had a dad growing up. Yeah. And he was a big key factor and with my uncle, but you know, you're talking from Melbourne where the Doc days, that's where the family grew and did. So Art Yaker and he came through and he's was teachings too was you will only meet certain people in your life. The ones that can talk the talk, the ones that will walk the walk. But the one that can put the two together, they're the people you want to be around because they will go places. That stuck with me, man. Correct. And it stuck with me when you said to me, because in the industry I've been known as quite a few things. But way you described it s resonated with me the most because I sat there and went actually, yeah. And it passion, if you love what you do, you'll go at it and give it everything. And you can see it in certain stuff and everything else. They're the ones you want to make sure you always wear, but even some of the others check in and do. But you can get that out of people if you invest it back in. It's about investing it, gives you the rewards back at the end of the day. Yeah, and you know what, like you flyed me up so much when we had that lunch that I I was like, if this good builder thing all fucks up and it's never gonna work, I'd be I was like, I would work for this guy because every day I would walk in, I know I'm part of something bigger, I know I'm part of something better, I know I'm part of a company that wants to grow and change this industry, and I know I've got a bloke sitting there that has the as much passion or more than me, and it would just fire me up to get stuff done. You know, it's kind of like it's almost like a footy team. Yeah, you know, the guys that are around you, the girls that are around you, you know. They lift you to a new level. And I think you do that a lot, man. Well, that's the best way to describe it. What you said there, you can watch when you see teams where they're losing. Yeah. And it takes that person in the team and others to lift them up, and you can turn that right around. Yeah. Business is exactly the same model. Yeah. If you are willing to do that and fight and show them, it just takes one person to stand up in the industry against it. And I think that was the biggest learning is like through COVID, we watched the people, businesses out there, whether it's suppliers and everything else. And a lot of them out there from CSR, Knuff, James Hardy's a lot of them. We've had some big talks and they know where I. Sit and align with but also too, you do wrong. I'll hold you accountable. Yeah, there's not enough of that being done. No. You just sit there and accept and go. I partner with people in the industry that stand by their product. Yeah. Because a warranty to me, if you're saying your product is the best, well, if it fails and there is a problem, show me that you're going to honor it. Yeah. And that was one of the biggest learnings, but pulling in CEOs, GMs, and saying, no, get stuffed. That's bullshit. I'm not going to accept it and the look on their face like F you I love it no fuck you yeah yeah your product yep I'm paying you for it yeah you're not paying me you're the customer correct so you know what honor what you say yeah and that's probably been one of the biggest and that's where that plays like weather techs yeah love it I love the product stand by it carpenters love it like that there has been one of the best things like meeting those guys and what they do yeah so it's those relationships that Able my team and what we do to be able to grow through where we are is because of the supply chain. So we've got people that being with this family because yeah, we we launched Gem Life back in 2017. But prior to that, you know, we were the living gems with the Coolidge family. Yeah, the name still means, and that's that legacy of what that does, and holding people accountable. We've still got people at 35 years deep working for us. How cool suppliers, you know, Sunshine Might of 10 here on the coast. We're 28, 29 year deep relationship, laying down on on the Gold Coast, Bradnams, like there's so many big CSR, Harvey Norman commercial. Those guys have been key supporters and we still back and do. But it's the key relationships play a key factor. Yeah. And exactly the in the the you know my vibe coming across people go they don't know how to and everything else and they can't handle it. But they also there's ones that respect it and get it? And I respect them. When things go bad and we're there will be a correction coming. Like let's all not avoid it. It's there, it's coming. But unless we're willing to stand up and do and that's where your networks and your connections come to play, that's a key factor for me is the relationships. Yeah. Having that, then I can lean on and they also lean on us that will support them. When it does turn and everyone goes, I don't have I need to go to someone, I won't be taking them on because I'll stand by the ones that have been with me the whole time, through the good or bad. Yeah. They're the ones you keep the work team. Yeah. And and you know, when we talked about all that stuff, what I got from it was trust is a really big thing for you. And and to break trust is not doing your job. And and and like when you think about it, that's really simple James. You know what I mean? Like it's really simple. Like of course Like if people and I don't I'm not talking about your situation or anything like that, but if people get offended because you're holding them accountable, because you're breaking my trust, because you're not delivering what I asked you to deliver as your customer. Correct. So I think they, you know, it of course people are gonna get upset. It's like when someone fucks you around in real life, you're gonna tell them off. Yeah, like they told you they're gonna do something, they didn't do it. Why don't you do it? Be a man of your word or woman of your And that's where I loved your grandpa saying, man. Like that. Talk the talk, walk the walk. Do it. Say you're gonna do it, freaking do it. Correct. It's that easy, isn't it? And and and this is why I find you and and gem life and QA build and all that so fascinating because you talk about like The way you talk about it makes complete sense, complete logic, everything you're doing at QA build, but then you talk about the simplicity of of keeping it fairly simple and then scaling at that level where everyone's looking for the golden egg, you know, to probably chase you guys down, but they're not gonna find it, that sort of stuff. They won't. And the simplicity of it too, the way we build, you know, building houses in sixteen weeks and holding that and doing it across everywhere. Look at that is fast. You know, some of where, you know, one of our projects that we've got over Hundred and thirty under construction at once. You know, that's unheard of in one building site, but we are full noise and we don't stop. But the teams love it. I respect my guys. Without them, I can't do what I do. And they all know that, but we reward them just as hard. Yeah, yeah. We may have touched on this. But you know, the amount of projects you just talked about, so you can have what what was it, 160? Was it there's a hundred and thirty under thirty under construction in one project. One project. How do you do that and maintain the quality at that scale? This was the other thing that I was like, whoa, cause you Great ratings, great reviews, everything's great. You talk to all the suppliers, like I talked to Aaron Davy. Yeah, big shout out to you, mate. He was like best builder in probably shouldn't say this, but best builder in Queensland. James, you've got to meet this bloke and QA build. Like how do you maintain that sort of level quality? Yeah. It's an interesting one when you think about quality, right? You can put a house up but it starts at the foundation. Foundation for me starts with the training and to the team. Yeah. You know, as carpenters and then going in and then supervisors, giving them the tools to understand what we look for. Now, what does the industry tell you as a whole? You know, it's here. Well, for me, that's not where my bar is. My bar is here. So it's taking people on that journey to get out of that mindset that, well, we just have to give here. No, we don't just have to give to that. We can aim to be here. So in that, we develop our own systems, our own QA level. and then that's how we implement but also it's education of the trades. Yeah. Because the end of the day, they also look but they go on the journey with us. Every single part of our business is a journey for everyone. Our clients are my teams but then also the subbies. You know, we're punching close to five and a half, six thousand subbies across Australia on our books. But every single one of them we know we can go talk to and when I go around touring I will go up to every one of them, talk to them all. Some get quite intimidating quite a few people on your ears, but the rest, you you know them. So this year's our first ever we're putting back into them and we're doing a race day for our trades. wow. So we're putting it out to them and it's about them. So, you know, partnering up with all of our suppliers and having them there, but giving back to them. Who does that? Not enough. Yeah. We all don't do enough. And that's the reality. Like it's all good for suppliers to do for us, but what about everyone else? Mm-hmm. So if we can change that and give back to them, that shows them that we appreciate and we care because we do. Yeah, yeah. We're only as good as every single person. It's like a clog and a wheel, right? Every single little clog is an important factor. Yeah. Everything from our own office, our site teams, to all of the subbies get to our finished product, which is the client. Yeah. And that wheel just has to keep spinning around until it hits its final destination. Yeah. my You know, and this is where I I don't mean to go back onto the intensity thing, but like that's where I was like and a although you sort of said it, I was like the passion. Like look what you're doing for the industry. You you just do it with such like such passion. Like I've never heard of a builder put on a trade day. Like for their trades. We never did. I used to help run GJ Gardner. We never used to do anything for it. We didn't even acknowledge them on board tonight. Never used to even talk to them. We have to. And but for me it's a it's a respect level back. Like if if carpenters are doing a solid frame, They clean up. Well, okay, the next trade that comes through goes, you know, I respect that you've given me a clean side. Yeah, that there is key that gives you your quality the whole way through. If you're not willing to spend the time and invest it back into them, you won't get what the product you deserve. Yeah, yeah, man. No, and I think we need more of that. That was another reason. I don't mean talk about the good builder, but we started the good builder. It was around, I'd been involved in a previous business, I told you what we failed at it, but our relationship. relationships with our subbies and trades were just horrible. I never even felt we were on the same team, which was really bad. it wasn't many of my doing I was probably more of the you know, a bit of a softer guy, so I was more of the come on let's get the team together. But you know, when you don't have that in place you can see the detrimental effects that I'll I'll do for you when they're building for you or running away when you ask to go on the next project. Correct. And that's the thing, you c you it's a it's a two way street. You both gotta be able to lean on each other. Yeah. When the good times are good, everyone's happy. Yeah. When the bad times hit, that's where a true builder will come to play of who will stand by, but also a reflection of They subbies. Yeah. You know what? That actually I think defines a bit of you, James. Like you seem like that guy, and like I said, when you know, if if this all fucked up, I'd come work with you because I was like, you're a guy, and I know your team too, that would stand behind you no matter what. Yeah. And if you fuck up, just fix it up. Correct. Get the job done. Do it. And and you just feel so much support. And I think that's where why you've achieved a whole heap of that success as well. But The other thing I wanted to ask you was around the wider construction industry, if you don't mind me. You know, we're going through probably the toughest time we've ever gone through and I think it's just getting worse. And we talked pro prior to this pot around life and how that can impact you know, performance and builders and all sorts of things, your mindset and all that. But where do you think some of the the strongest or or best opportunities are for the construction industry right now. I I think you've al I actually think you're already doing a few of them by training, you know, you you train in college and things like that. But where else do you see some opportunity to better this industry, mate? I think to better the industry also needs to come that we've got to stand up as builders and finally say enough's enough with 'cause the end of the day, every builder right now, we're all trying to hit record numbers and do, but who's winning out of this at the moment is the subbies because rates just keep going. One builder offers another a bit more. So then but at the end of it when you look at it that way, well who's missing out the most is the end consumer. Yeah. So, you know, we were talking earlier offline, right, where Inflation just keeps going up and the government's saying another entry. Every time they keep doing this to this country, what happens to every single other Australian out there is they go, Well, I need more money. Yeah. They go to their employer. So then it just keeps right. We're in this vicious cycle. Yeah. And what how do we change that cycle? We have to stand up and say, No. Enough's enough. Enough's enough. Hold. Because if we don't We're all not gonna survive. Yeah, yeah. No, I completely agree with you. And you can see the we don't get too political on here with the good builder, but like you can see the political shift. And people are going, why is one nation getting in? Why the hell aren't they? Correct. Like if you have a look at it, yeah. Man, they're probably the only party out there, as we spoke about beforehand, that's my belief and I'm you know, my personal belief, not the belief of the good builder, I should say that, but you know, they're the only ones out there that I feel are actually putting Australians first and and looking at ways that to make life easier for us and protecting us and protecting our businesses and the way we do things and more opportunity for Australia. I think that's, you know, the reason why. I think you've hit it, you know, on the head. I agree. Like what they are doing, they're looking out for everyday Australians Yeah. Liberal and Labour, I don't see them doing anything but right now destroying what we are. Yeah, yeah. One thing that I have been dumbfounded by actually, James, and sorry to cut you off, mate, was they're talking about all the discretionary trusts and all the changes you had to make. And then they went out there and said, you know, after the budget, wow, look at look at the thousands of new businesses that have been created after the budget. Of course, when you actually break it down, it's all people restructuring their trust that they can no longer use or whatever. And then just last week, they backflipped on it and said, this may not affect you, but we're gonna put it out for consultation around this. And you know, and and and I don't want you to get political when I'm gonna relate this to leadership, but You look at a leader like yourself and some other great leaders we've had on the podcast and they've they're very definitive and you make a decision and you go with it. Yeah. But it seems like this becomes a popularity contest rather than a a freaking policy that's gonna help anybody. And if it doesn't work, then they'll back upon it. And and for me, that just does my head in. And imagine we ran your building company like that, James. You're like, we're gonna do it this way. Wait a minute, no, we're gonna do it this way. Wait a minute, we're gonna do it this way. Half Of your staff would leave. And your clients and you wouldn't have a building up. And then you look at the guy, you know, that billionaire bloke who Adrian Portelli who's leaving the country and you see all this stuff coming out. And I don't know. I'm sorry if I'm getting a bit political, but I'm I'm just like I think there's not enough talk about it. Yeah. There's not enough with it that everyone we all think it. We all know it. Yeah. But is everyone willing to stand up and do something about it? Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I love about you. I think you would do it. And and and I think you've given me the courage to talk about it. And I wanted to talk about it a little bit on this. podcast over a brief offline chat and I want to put the point out there and and yeah like I think as builders and we and we know some big builders out there if we band together start making a bit of noise around this hopefully you know things can change and you know make it a bit easier. Yeah like we I've watched your stuff and I think it's great. Like you're giving a platform where builders can talk. But it's because we've all got a voice. We've all got things to say and I've got a lot of respect for the ones that are still in here and the ones that are getting like Peter Wood Got a lot of respect for what he's done in the whole of the industry. Yeah. But what scares me is well, who's coming through next? Yeah. You've got a person that is a big advocate, but who's next? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's not enough of that. Yeah. And with the outbuilders, like you know, you talk about when they just relapse on that. Well, let's talk about the little housing stuff. Yeah. They brought out all these new things and builders couldn't do it. They relapsed in seven, eight months and went, okay, we'll we'll just go back. But the cause and effect That they do there, like you said, everyone had to change stuff that wasn't achievable and they went, okay, we've just crippled it. But who's making those decisions? Yeah. Yeah. They're not going to industry leaders. They're not actually wanting to sit with some of the key people and go, well, you know, let's round table that. Well, how about you do that? Yeah. Instead of you guys just making a decision in their cabinet house somewhere in Canberra and dictating that's how the building should be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think I said to you before the potto, James. I'm like. Mate, does anyone because we've had David Harmer come to us who's the head of housing policy of Queensland and mate, I want to put him in front of you. I want a meeting in here with people like yourself and that. So they're not they're talking to the people on the ground. And and that's why I was asking you, do you know, do you get the opportunity to talk to them? Because I I think they need to. you're the ones that are building Australia. You're the ones that are building at that volume that are, you know, trying to achieve these numbers, but if you keep putting roadblocks up and not listening to Yeah. You do stuff. You you you'll make shit happen. There's no doubt about that. You are fastest growing builder in Queensland, fast growing builder in Australia. But it'll make a hell of a lot easier if they actually listen to you. It'd be good if they would. Yeah. But will they? No. Yeah, sad, It is. It's really sad. All right. Well, yeah. Hopefully if anyone's listening, David, mate, if you ever want to come for a meeting, you know, we can get a few builders on and we'd we'd love the opportunity for the Queensland government to, you know, have a chat with some of our great builders that we have here. Well mate, I think I only have one more question for you left and it's our signature question and I could certainly hang out with you all day and like I said I could work for you so I could certainly hang out with you all day. But if you ever need a marketing guy, let me know I can help out there. but mate, you know we called the good builder, James. What do you think makes a good builder? question. What makes a good builder? A good builder for me is I guess what we said earlier. You're you you're basically getting given the trust from a client to produce them their vision and give them that home that they deserve. Yeah. So a good builder being able to provide that and give that. And I think one of the biggest compliments you can ever get as a builder is building for a builder that's been and done himself and go, mate, you've given me one of the most fantastic houses. Yeah. If you can get that type of compliment back from a builder, yeah, then I believe you've done. Yeah. Well I speak a little bit about and I'm not just saying it because as I said at the beginning of this podcast and I don't not gonna cut it because I do believe it you're one of my little icons that I've got out in the industry and I've always believed and I've talked a little bit about trust is the ultimate thing that you're trying to get out there. And if you've got trust, it's like what we talked about the accountability side internally and getting on with your team and the job done. If you've got trust you've won. And it is the most important thing. So I I totally agree. Good builder can build trust with with their clients, with their team, with anyone. I thought it was a really cool, cool answer, man. Yeah, yeah. Well, mate, thank you so much. I actually can't, I was a bit nervous for this one, so sorry if it was a little bit all over the shopping little bits, but I was very mate, I'm I'm very thankful and grateful for your time. I know you're a super busy man when you've got 16, 17 projects and hundreds of build under each project. So that's not 16 or 17 builds for anyone out there that don't know QA build. These are freaking projects. Yeah. And there's thousands of builds Out there all around Australia. This gentleman heads up all of those builds and runs it, you know, the fastest growing team in Queensland, fastest growing builder in Queensland and Australia. It's phenomenal, mate. And I I'm just blown away by, you know, it's you know, coming from what you sort of talk about, a humble, chippy, young bloke. So the freaking knowledge you have now. And I've worked with some great leaders, but I am I you are one of the best in the industry, mate. And I am blessed that you've come and spent a little bit of time with me, man. So thank you. No. So thanks. Yeah. You're a legend. Thanks, James. No worries.