Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / The 90s Alt-Rock Explosion [Episode 329]

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The 90s Alt-Rock Explosion [Episode 329] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: It's an in depth look at the alt rock explosion
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: of the nineties. How did it all begin, what effect
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: did it have on not just music but pop culture,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: and how did it come to an end. All of
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: that coming up next on Booked on Rock, We're totally
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: rock and roll.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'll leave you you're reading. Little Hands says
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: it's time to rock and roll.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Roll up, I totally booked. Welcome back to book don Rock,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the podcast for those about to read and rock. I'm
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Eric Senach. Back for another visit on the podcast is
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: author Greg Prado, whose latest book is titled Alternative for
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: the Masses, the Nineties Alt Rock Revolution and Oral History. Greg,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I have decided to do an official count because I
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: know last few visits. You're asking, yes, are do you
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: have the most visits on the podcast? Okay, this is
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: your eleventh appearance on the podcast. You are out tied
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: with the great Martin pop Off.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Ah.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so you have eleven? He has eleven? Who will
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: get to twelve? First? We shall see.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Well, at the end of this episode, I will announce
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: what my next book project is. Maybe that will lead
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: to a twelfth appearance.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's a teaser and you just told me what
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: it is.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: This is a huge but we're gonna we're gonna save
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: it till the end of this interview. You got to
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: listen to this whole interview.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, huge news. So we'll get to that.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: So we're at the perfect age when this era of
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: music that you cover in this book blew up.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Yep?
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, can you say it? In the introduction? Most articles
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: and documentaries they make it seem as if Nirvana just
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: came out of nowhere and grunge rock was overnight, But
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: there was a long lead up to this. I mean,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: this goes back to as far as mid eighties, maybe
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: even before that.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean we can go back to the
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: late sixties if you want, with like the Stooges. I mean,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: that was the seeds of punk rock, you know, five Stooges.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: But I mean, really, you know, if you want to
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: just kind of yeah, most people point to the eighties,
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: you know, with Jane's addiction ram those bands.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Is that the goal of this book to tell the
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: complete story.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: The goal of the book for me is I always
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: have to make this clear. I love Nirvana, I love
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Kurt Cobain, but there were a lot of other bands,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: and in fact, bands that I loved as much as
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Nirvana and still love as much as Nirvana. It's not
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: just Nirvana. It's become over the years people. You know,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: when you walk into Target, you're assaulted with Nirvana shirts
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: being sold. You don't see so many shudder to think
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: shirts being sold or Sebado shirts being sold. You know
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying, which I mean, you know, of course
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Nirvana far outsold those other bands, but I mean I
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: listened to Faith No More, Blind, Melon, Smashing Pumpkins, first
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: two albums, primuses early album. You know, there's so many
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: bands I listened to as much as Nirvana and love
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: as much as Nirvana. So I kind of just wanted
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: to shine the spotlight on maybe some other bands that
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: either people don't know about, or maybe that people forgot
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: about and maybe able to rediscover through this book.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Talk about the early alt rock scene. These bands were
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: literally the alternative to what commercial radio and MTV were playing.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Chapter one, titled setting the Stage. Alt rock was like
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: a tea cattle simmering throughout the eighties slowly and then
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: boom it hits. And there's some There are some great
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: quotes in this chapter, Corey Glover of Living Color, one
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: of my all time favorite bands, talks about Soundgarden opening
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: for Living Color. This is very early on and he
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: was blown away by this, talk about that early scene.
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  Speaker 2: So the late eighties at that point, I'm just talking
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  Speaker 2: about from my personal experience I'm listening to. I'm listening
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: to primarily heavy metal. Then I know, with me, my
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: friends and a lot of people probably we are kind
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: of becoming sick and tired of just like what MTV
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: is playing, it's very predictable. The production of the late
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: eighties is just I can't even listen to it. I mean,
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: just to give an example, Sadly, the great Ace Freely
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: recently passed away, and I was listening to some of
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: his eighties solo albums, and his first album is good,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: you know, the the production sonically is good. But then
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: I put on I heard a song off his nineteen
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: eighty nine album, which is called trouble Walking. It was
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: actually the title track, and to me, it was like unlistenable,
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  Speaker 2: not because of the song, but just the production is
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: so harsh and so eighties, with that cannon drum and
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: it's just so you know, and it's.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Said built for built for stadiums and arenas. It had
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: that big sound to it, but now it's funny. Pearl
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Jam was kind of pissed off about with ten. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: it was produced like a def Leppard album and that's
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: not what they wanted and then they ended up remixing
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: it years later.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, but you know, it's funny is we just talked
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: to I just mentioned that specific song by Ace fairly
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: sounding the way it sounded, and it's like harsh and
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: just but meanwhile, it's funny. He came from the band
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Kiss in the seventies there. Early to mid albums are
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: some of my favorite sounding albums cause they sound so live,
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: and especially the first actual live album is the most
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: you know a bit you know. Of course, what's funny
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: is I'm going to say it sounds very live. We
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: all know that it was heavily, heavily overdubbed, so it's
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: not really alive, but.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: But still sad. Yeah, yeah, it's funny to say. I
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: was just blasting alive on my way home today before
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: this interview.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: But to get back to your original question, so in
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: the late eighties, it just you know, there were some
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: great bands. Of course, we had Jane's Addiction. But for
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: people like me that were just kind of getting out
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: of heavy metal or looking to maybe broaden air like horizons.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: There were certain bands that are definitely the britin between
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: heavy metal to then what becomes alternative or is alternative
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: that then becomes huge in the early nineties, bands like
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Faith No More, Jane's Addiction, Living Color, Sound Garden, those
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: band and then of course later we have also Smashing Pumpkins.
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  Speaker 2: So those bands really I think connect the dots for
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of people that were maybe into hard rock,
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: heavy metal, but wanted to you know, listen to alternative rock,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: or just wanted something a little bit different that wasn't
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: just heavy metal. I think that was you know, like
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  Speaker 2: those bands I think we can thank for kind of
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  Speaker 2: setting the stage a bit.
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  Speaker 1: And they were all playing in clubs, not big venues,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: kind of pockets around the country. We know Seattle of course,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: but these bands were all out there. They're playing, they're
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: not they're under the radar, but they're out there for
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: a while.
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  Speaker 2: There's one thing, personally, a personal experience in the late eighties,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: well throughout the eighties, I started regularly going to concerts
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  Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty six that was when I was old
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  Speaker 2: enough to start going, and from eighty six through the
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: rest of the eighties, all I saw were arena shows
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  Speaker 2: because that's all I thought there really was, and that
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: was all that me and my friends went to. The
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: first club show I ever saw would have been in
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: early nineteen ninety, I think March of nineteen ninety. There
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: was a club called Lamore in Brooklyn, New York, and
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: I saw a bill that was Voivot headlining Soundgarden in
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: the Middle Faith in the War opening Oh wow. And
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: that was a life changing show just because at that
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: point I really connected with Faith No War. But seeing
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: them live and being so close it was totally unlike,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, to love a band and to be that
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  Speaker 2: close and to just be blown away. It's totally different
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: than me sitting in the way back last row of
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Nasau Coliseum trying to squint to see what Steven Tyler
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  Speaker 2: is doing. You know, it's just a totally different ballgame,
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  Speaker 2: totally different vibe, different energy. Guys jumping in the audience.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, you know you're not going to see Paul
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Stanley jump in the audience, you know.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Right right? Yeah? I mean that was the sign that
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: something was coming very soon. You know exactly, Let's go
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: back to Jane' Addiction. They are so important, And I
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: was fortunate enough to have a college roommate who was
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: into Jane's Addiction early on, huge fan played their stuff
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: all the time, and I came around to them and
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: then eventually became a huge fan. As you're writ in
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: the book, the importance of Jane's Addictions nineteen ninety to
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one infiltration of the mainstream cannot be overstated.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Matt Pinfield, you talk to for the book, longtime DJ,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: former MTV VJ, told you this band should be credited
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: as the most important. Talk about Jane's Addiction and why
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: they're so important.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Well, like I said, Jane's Addiction really appealed to so
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: many different people, and they were huge without really having
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: a big mega hit single like they never had, like
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: a smells like teen Spirit. The song been quite Stealing,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: was popular, but it wasn't like a top ten single.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: The song called Mountain Song was also huge amongst just
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: rock fans and then and it seems like over the years,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: the song, Jane says, has become almost like a stairway
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: to heaven for like alternative rock people. But when it
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: first came out, it was somewhat popular, but it wasn't
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: what it's become now, which is like an all time
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: classic song. So the thing that I think really makes
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Jane's addiction so important is, of course Lallapalooza. That's what
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: really I think proved to people like, yes, there's something
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: going on, there's something on the horizon, you don't have
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: to be stuck listening to. I mean, I hate to
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: name bands, but like you know, Winger, you know, you
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: don't have to, which you know, honestly, you know, Winger
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: gets a very bad rap because they are great musicians.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Kip Winger is a very I don't know if you
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: know this. He actually writes like symphonies and stuff.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Now yeah, yeah, he was nominated for a Grammy.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean, honestly, you know, I shouldn't even
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: bad mouth Winger because they're actually very talented. I'm talking
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: more about like at that point, it's like the fourth
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: and fifth wave of like bad like you know, hair metal,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: where it's just nothing original, which is funny. If we
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: skip now to about nineteen ninety five, then we have
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: the fourth or fifth waves of like Nirvana and Pearl
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: jam right.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it came back around the same thing.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: And so it's funny how just the circle that it's
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: always the same no matter what, a band will come
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: out that changes everything. Say Guns and Roses drops. Then
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: you don't get bands that do their own unique version
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: of Guns and Roses. You get bands that are just
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: mimicking Guns and Roses. And the record labels love that
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: because that's easy just to put out a band that
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: sounds just like you know, Guns n' Roses and hopefully
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: they're going to score a hit. You know, that type
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: of type. You know, so that that has always gone
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: on in music, that will always go on music, back
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: to the Beatles, back to everybody.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: I'm curious what you think of Kennedy's quote in the book.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Kennedy was a long time MTVVJ. Yeah, she told you
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: that if Jans and Dixon didn't break up in nineteen
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: ninety one, they would have been right behind Nirvana in
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: terms of massive popularity. What do you think about that?
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: If they stay together in the nineties, what would they
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: have become.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: I think it's possible, but then again, I don't know
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: how Middle America. I mean, one thing to Perry Ferrell's credit,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: he was really pushing things. I mean, now the whole
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: transgender thing and everything is, you know, I think much
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: more welcomed and much more like accepted. It's definitely much
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: more discussed. Late eighties early nineties, there was still a
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: lot of like homophobia and things like that. If you
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: just look at some of the comedians of the time,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: some of like the song lyrics, whether it be hip
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: hop or you know, certain metal bands. You know. So
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know how much Jane's Addiction would have been
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: able to go over in you know, some state that's
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: maybe not that progressive. But I mean, who knows, you know,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: it could have happened. You know, we don't know. I mean,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: of course, David Bowie was huge right in the seventies,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: and that was even further back in the quote unquote
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: dark ages of progressive thinking and things like that. Yeah,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: so we never know. I mean, personally, I love Jaan's Addiction.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: That's also a band that I listened to as much,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: especially for that period in the early nineties, that I
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: loved as much as as Nirvana.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Nothing shocking is It's perfect, there's nothing.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: And they also break up just at their peak, which
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: I personally think was a mistake. They should have kept going,
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: but they broke up.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: When they broke up, let's talk about Nirvana specifically Nevermind.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: That's unquestionably the moment that knocked the door down. Let
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: all the old rock slash grunge rock bands in. Matt Pinfield,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: going back to him again, he told you that nobody
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: could have predicted how big Nevermind would be. No, and
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: he says, I if they said that, they'd be lying
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: to you. What did you think of Nirvana when you
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: first heard smells like teen Spirit?
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Well, I just want to say Matt Pinfield is one
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: hundred percent right. At that point in ninety one, I
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: was pretty well aware of what was going on with
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: like the Underground and stuff like that. And the only
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: thing I ever heard, the only way I ever even
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: saw any mentioned of Nirvana. There were a few photos
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: a year before of Chris Cornell wearing a Nirvana's shirt.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: That's the only thing I ever knew about Nirvana before
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: or it was a very weird thing. Before Nevermind came out.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: There was definitely a buzz like I would be reading
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: writ magazine or I remember even reading I think it
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: was like Billboard magazine and people were praising this album.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: They're like, oh, this album is what like, you know,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: I forget what the quote was, but like this is
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: what teenagers listened to in the back of their cars
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: or like it was like some really intense descriptions meaning
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: that this is a very important album that's really going
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: to shake things up and also change things. And uh yeah,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: I mean similar to you know, Guns n' Roses a
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: few years back, and then also Metallica, they was just
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: a buzz, you know Metallica around Master of Puppets. It
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: was like a undeniable buzz guns n' Roses with Appetite
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: for destruction. You couldn't deny that there was a buzz,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: and you couldn't predict it. There was no way to
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: predict that these band. And it's funny to how all
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: these albums come out within like a few Master of
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Puppets is in eighty six, Appetite in eighty seven, the
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Black Album in ninety one, and then we have never
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Mind and also ninety one, So these huge, mega selling
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: albums all come out kind of at the same you know,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: like the same error almost.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: He talked to Butch Vig, who produced the album. He
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: said the album changed his life, but he didn't like
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: talking about it for a while. Why was that? And
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: then what changed his mind? He started talking about it again.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: He talked to you about that.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: I believe, he said. When he was he went back
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: and worked on like a twenty or twenty fifth year
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: anniversary or ten or I forgot what the year was,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: but some anniversary edition. But I mean everyone's different. I mean,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: I you know, some people I guess get you know,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: don't want to talk. I guess maybe also because of
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: the way that Kurk Cobain died and everything, maybe it
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: left like bad, like in the memories or something.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: And butch Vig produced a lot of albums by other bands,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: so I'm sure that was that was part of it too.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: In fact, I'll tell you what my favorite butch Viig
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: productions are not Nirvana. It's actually the first two Smashing
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Pumpkins albums.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love Sime's Dream.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Siamese Dream I think is by far but butch Vig's
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: best production. Yep, that's just my personal observation.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: I just did an episode on My Bloody Valentine, which
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I knew little to nothing about and didn't realize how
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: influential they were and didn't realize that, Yeah, how brilliant,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: how brilliant Kevin Shields was and is and Smashing Pumpkins,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Billy Corgan heavily influenced by the sound, the guitar sound,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: the production, and you could hear it in Simey's Dream.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: What's funny is I got turned onto that band? I
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: remember it was would have been in ninety two. I
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: got turned on to them, and it was through or
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: May no, maybe ninety three ninety three. I was reading
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: an interview with Vernon Reed of the band Living Color,
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: who I was a huge band of and I'm still
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: a big fan of, and he was talking about albums.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: He was listening to what he mentioned, the Loveless album
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: by Simon Excuse Me, by Loveless by My Bloody Valentine.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: And I remember back in the days, if there were
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: some CDs you had that you did not like, you
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: can you can go to the record store and trade
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: them in and get store credit. So I grabbed some
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: CDs I was not listening to anymore, and I traded
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: in for My Bloody Valentine, And at first it did
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: not really register. I thought it was okay, but it
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: didn't really I don't know there was something. I guess
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: it was because it was so different sounding than what
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: I was listening to. Yeah, but over the years, I've
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: become a massive fan of that. That's one of my
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: favorite albums of all time, especially of the nineties.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: I can't stop listening to Loveless, every single song on that.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: It's addictive. I was telling the author about that, I said,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: thank you for introducing me to this band. Yes, some
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: sidebars in this book that are great. Once titled Madonna
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Goes Grunge. The band Candlebox signed by Madonna's label Maverick.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: They got to hang out with her after a show.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, I believe it was. I think he's I think
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Kevin Martin says that it was after a Rush show
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: at Madison Square Garden. If I'm not missaging, Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, yes.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: And and I think Madonna's big quote on her suggestion
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: to Kevin is, oh, you know, you really got to
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: read to like get yourself to be like a better lyricist.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: And I got to say, I'm not the biggest Madonna fan,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: but her lyrics I don't think of really her strong.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, has anyone really ever said, oh, I love
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Madonna's lyrics.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Right exactly. Yeah, what a moment though, that lis'en. You
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: devote a chapter to how the nineties alt rock movement
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: had a big effect on not just the music of
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: the time, but fashion, politics, and even the way audiences
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: behaved in concert. What did the people you spoke with
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: that to say about how much the band's influenced politics,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: because that was huge. MTV was was a huge influence
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: on young people voting in the early nineties, the ninety
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: two election.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in nineteen ninety two, MTV had to think called
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Rock the Vote, and it was a series of commercials
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: where you had people like Chris Cornell. I remember just
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: suggesting that people go vote. I remember going to Lollapaloosa
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety two and Al Jorgensen from the band Ministry,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: at the end of the show brought his daughter out
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: on stage and she was very young, and she said
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: and he said, I forget the exact quote, but it
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: was like, you know, for the children of tomorrow, we
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: all have to vote, or something like that. And I
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: remember even Dave Mustain of the band Megadeth, although they're
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: not alternative rock, he was. He did a whole thing
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: in the summer where he was I think at the
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Democratic Convention and he was the MTV correspondent and he
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: was like interviewing people like politicians and stuff. So MTV
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: was really, really was really integral in a part of
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: the whole process of the upcoming upcoming election, which was
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Bill Clinton and also the first George Bush. And yeah,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: people pointed that for swaying the election in Clinton's way
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: because they made I remember, like Bush came off looking
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: very old and like not hip, and Bill Clinton came
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: off as like a younger, more hip or with it
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: type candidate. So he wound up winning in a lot
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: of people point to MTV's influence for that. I've definitely
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: read that over the years.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Didn't you play saxophone on Arsenio Hall right now? The
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: other thing was stage diving?
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Oh yes? Was the other thing crowdsurfing? I have to say, yeah,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: I never crowdsurfed, and I hated crowdsurfing because I remember,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: what's the difference.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Between stage diving and crowdsurfing, isn't that?
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, stage diving because you have to go on the
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: stage and you jump out in the audience at least yeah,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: so that that at least you see someone coming at
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: you so you can put up your hand. Crowdsurfing I
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: hated because I remember too specific actually a few specific shows.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: I remember seeing Faith the More at roseland Living Color
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: at roseland and seeing Blind Melon a few times in
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: smaller venues and you were watching the audience so you
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: can't see obviously what's behind you, and someone with their
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: nice big Doc Martin shoe is coming behind you and
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: hits you, or it kicks you as hard as they
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: can in the back of your head so you have
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: no way of I remember there was at the Faith
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: the More show, I tried getting as close as I could,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: and I lasted for me one or two songs. I
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: found myself at one point just watch you with my
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: hands like this because I was just bracing myself. I
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: was like, you know what for at this I just
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: went in the back. So yeah, at that point, you know,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: at that point it was it was getting too popular,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: even you know, it was different than seeing Faith the
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: More the More, where it's a thousand or two thousand people.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Then we go to Roselane, which is like, you know,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: a few thousand people.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: So when did moshpitz get bag wasn't that run the
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: same time.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was I'm trying to think when I would
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: have the first show ever was so I mean well,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I mean mashing. Really you could say thrash metal really
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: brought that to the metal audience with Slayer and things
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: like that. I know, like Slayer shows would have mosh
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: pits back and also of course Anthrax had the song
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: called Caught in Amash, So I really you could you
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: could credit thrash metal for really bringing washing into rock music.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: It wasn't really alternative alternative alternative music of the nineties.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Of course, co op to that, and I remember going
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: to like Fishbone shows and there was insane washing and
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: things like that.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Fishbone, Yeah, my roommate loved Fishbone too.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: I have never moshed in my life. I've never crowdsurfed,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: I have never staged o. I just stood in the
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: back and watched and tried to just enjoy the music.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: And that's why you're here today. It may not be
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: standing here today.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: You know. Quickly. I'll just tell you I saw a
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: show once. It was It would have been the fall
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: of ninety one, just as never Mind was hitting. I
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: was going to Stonybrook University and there was a double
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: bill that played the Gymnasium of Stonybrook. It was Fishbone
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: headlining with Primus below them, and it was insane just
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: how vicious the washing and crowdsurfing was. There were people
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: that are coming out. There was one poor girl came
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: out on a stretcher. I don't know how injured she was,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: but I mean it was just totally insane. I just
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: could never understand what the attraction was of that.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Greg Prato back on the podcast. His latest book is
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: titled Alternative for the Masses, the Nineties Alt Rock Revolution
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: and Oral History. A quote from Lou Barlow from Dinosaur
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Junior in the book on the band covering Peter Frampton
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: showed me the way and it wasn't a sarcastic take
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: on it. Talk about how the seventies influenced a lot
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: of these all rock bands of the nineties.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, the thing I loved so much about the seventies
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: is the production. That's my favorite productions all the band
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: It seems like all the albums that I love the
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: most from the seventies, I just love the production. I
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: love the production of Physical Graffiti, never mind the ballocks,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Kiss Rock and roll Over, I think is a great production.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: And what's great about those albums I just mentioned it
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: sounds like just a band on a stage with just
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: everything is micd and you just let it rip and
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: just indust record it. And that's totally what you get
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: with a lot of the nineties productions, or even it
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: starred in the late eighties with we mentioned Dinosaur Junior,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: then as we go on Sonic Youth and you know
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: bands like that, it's more of a real production. It's
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: not like that horrible late eighties where that drum, that
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: horrible drum gated sand that it's like a cannon, Yeah,
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: cannon going off that it's just so dated and bad sounding.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, as much as I love Living Color, I
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: go back and listening to Vivid, and even Vivid sometimes
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: has that bad drum thing, which is a shame because
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Will Calhoun the drum in Living Color is absolutely phenomenal.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Absolutely and that album Vivid from stuck to finish. So
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: that's that's a perfect album.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know what's funny is they put out an
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: album that tends to get overlooked in nineteen ninety three
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: called Stain, and that's my favorite Living Color album. It's
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: a very dark sounding album and I love when bands
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: get dark like I love of course Van Halen fair warning.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: We talked about in the past.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Stayn has Type on it, right, yes, no, no, no.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Type is on their second album, which is called Times Up.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, times Up, that's right.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, Stain has the big hit on that was called
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: was called leave It Alone.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, great song.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then and then they had a song on
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: it that should have been a hit, but unfortunately the video,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: like what I talk about in the book, it wasn't
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: even me that says it's it's other people. What's funny
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: with alternative rock, It was definitely kind of a scaling
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: back with like you know, the shows were in clubs
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: and things like that. The production was more raw. But
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: one thing that never got one thing that didn't change
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: the production for music videos. It were still these hundreds
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: of thousands of dollars with these stupid directors thinking I
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: mean not all of them, but like certain directors thinking
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: that they're making mini movies. So anyway, so to get
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: back to living color for the song nothing this like,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: the video just wasn't appealing. It wasn't that good. So
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: the singles never did anything and never took off. It
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: may have been a hit in like other countries, but
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: it should have been a massive hit here and it
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: just never took off. And I say it could be
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: in doing part to the video not being very good.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's another great song. And I do remember
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: rock Radio playing the single on there.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, should have should should have been a hit
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: in the album Stain should have been massive too. I
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: love that album to this day. I love that album.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Very experimental band. I saw them at Toad's place in
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: New Haven and they were doing some crazy shit man
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: where people were There were some people that are expecting,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: like when are we going to hear all the popular stuff?
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: And they were just they would go into these long
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: instrumental jams like fusion and stuff like that, which I
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: appreciate it. I loved it. And they're still they're still together.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I mean there's still.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: I saw them two years ago on a bill they
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: were They went on first and then the band Extreme
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: was headlining. And I'll share a secret with you and
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: everyone listening to this, Okay, Living Color, Blue Away Extreme
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: ooh yeah, So I'm just gonna I'm just gonna put
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: it out there. I was so amazed it was. They
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: were so phenomenal. They look great, sounded great, the set
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: list was great. I highly recommend people go see Living Color.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: They're as good now as they were back when I
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: saw them in the early nineties.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Their basis, Doug Wimbish is lives right near me here
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: in Hartford, Connecticut.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah. Corey Glover is one of the most underrated
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: singers ever. He to this day, and I've even told him,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: I said, you're singing now better than like you ever have.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: He really I put him up there. Like I talk
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: about in the book, there's a whole chapter about singers,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: and the part of the reason why I wanted to
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: do that chapter is I wanted to you know, of
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: course I love Chris Cornell, but it seems like everyone
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: was like, oh yeah, the nineties alternative rock singers, Oh yeah,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Chris Cornell was the best. He absolutely was the best.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: But so is Jeff Buckley, so is b York, so
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: is Shannon Hoon, so is Corey Glover, so is Lane Staley.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: The list goes on and on.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: YEP agreed handful of producers who played a big role
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: in some of the decades standout albums, one being Steve Albini.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: You were one of the last people to interview him
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: before he passed away. He produced in Utero from Nirvana.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Who are some of the other big producers and what
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: made them stand out the nineties sound? We were just
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: talking about the eighties sound. What made those guys stand out?
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: And did they capture the raw sound the raw energy
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: of these bands?
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: Right? Well, one gentleman that I indued for the book
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: who's very underrated producer is Paul Keith excuse me, Paul Q. COLDERI.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: He produced Holes Live through This, but then he produced
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: great albums by the band called Morphine, who's one of
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: my favorite. I absolutely love that band. They never really
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: get the credit that they deserve. He also produced the
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: first radio Head album, actually I think I think co
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: produced it. The album called Pablo Honey that has the
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: song Creep on it that everyone knows sure that he
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: pointed out, has over a billion streams on Spotify, which
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: probably is equal to it like about five five or
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: like ten dollars in probably royalties at this point.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, but he's an underrated producer because you don't
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: hear that name a lot.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah, yeah, you didn't. Really, you don't really hear
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: that much about him, so yeah, I was able to
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: get him for this book. Butch Vig, of course is
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: is a is a fantastic producer. But I'm always going
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: to say Sime's Dream is his uh top top production.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: It.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, of course never Mind is great, but Siamese
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Dream is just a fantastic production.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: It is the guitar tone, absolutely Fantasmic's guitar. Yeah, we
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: talked about my Bloody Valentine. They are part of the
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: shoegaze genre, and you do get into some of the
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: other subgenres from the nineties. All country is one interesting genre.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: What are some of the other ones that you know?
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: It's funny it seems like with alternative rocket, all these
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: different subgenres. You start having bands like Rage against the
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Machine that starts merging rap with stuff. But as I
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: talk about in the book, there was a band that
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: predated them called Urban Dance Squad that tends to also
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: get overlooked, and they were really the first band to
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: truly merge rap and also rock music. And I'll be honest,
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: it's gonna be very possibly controversial comment. I prefer Urban
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Dance Squad over Rage Against the Machine. Especially Urban Dance
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Squad's first album, which is called Mental Flaws for the Globe.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: I highly recommend if you like Rage Against the Machine
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: check out that album. That album is fantastic, and I
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: personally prefer it moreover. I mean, of course I respect
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Rage Against the Machine, very very original band, Tom Morello,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: of course, phenomenal guitarist, highly highly original. But I prefer
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Urban Dance Squad.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Urban Dance Squad. I gotta be honest with you, I
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: don't think I've ever listened to an Urban Dance Squad song.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: They had a hit song in nineteen ninety ninety one
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: called Deeper Shade of Soul.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, I must have heard that one.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw them open up for a Living Color
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety one in early ninety one.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Was there a video for it?
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, there was. It's a video of like people skateboarding
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: in a pool.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, wow.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm sure once you hear
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: it you'll say, oh yeah, Now I remember that it
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: was played pretty heavily for like a month or so
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: on good old MTV.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Wow. So what are some of the other subgenres from
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: the nineties that well, I.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Mean, really the top I mean, you already said shoegaze,
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: that to me is definitely high up there. You know.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: One thing I just to viewer off for a second.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: One thing that was great about doing this book too,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: is I went back and listened to albums or even
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: heard some albums that I maybe didn't or wasn't that
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: familiar with. Like, I went back and heard them. And
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: there was an album that I loved and teen ninety
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: four by the band Lush called Split, and I had
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: not heard that in decades, and I went back and
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: listened to it and I fell in love with it again.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: It's one of my favorite nineties albums. I love that album,
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: and that band is one of the leading shoegaze type bands.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Of course, My Bloody Valentine is probably the top top
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: shoegaze band. Yeah, the name, the name shoegaze was given
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: to that genre as kind of an insult. It was
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: from a British journalist or it was someone or a
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: British manager. I freak, I don't know, excuse me. It
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: was a British record label person that said, all these bands,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: all they do is they just they're strumming their guitars
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: and just looking down at their shoes. They don't even
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: care about the audience that you know, which you know,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: I guess that that was the reaction I guess to
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: what you know was going on at the time with
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: all the like big arena rock type of things.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, shoegaze or dream pop is the other.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Pop dream pop yet? And then of course you also
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: we also have britpop we can't forget right, which is
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: of course Oasis and Blurr in those bands which I'll
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: tell you I never really connected with. I don't know
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: if it's because I'm here in the States, but but
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: I mean probably not, because there's plenty of other British
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: bands I love, So I don't know brit pop Oasis,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: I was into the verb for a while. That was
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: a band I was into for a while, but yeah,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Oasis went right over my head for some reason. I
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: don't know why.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: What would be an example of an alt country band.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Wilco is usual pointy two Uncle Tupelo, I think is
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: another band that's listed again. It's funny, that's one.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: What makes it alt country?
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I guess it's it had country. I
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: had like a country twang. But maybe you're it maybe
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: fit well, you know, listen If you go back and
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: listen to some of Nirvana unplugged, it's not it's not country,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: but it's definitely folk, right right. Mark the Great Mark Lannigan,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: late Great Mark Landigan, some of his solo stuff had
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a country thing to it. He
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: put out a great album in ninety four called I
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: guess called Whiskey in the Holy Ghost, which really I
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: should know since I did a bloody book about Mark Lanigan.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: But great book.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: See, that's the bad thing about putting out so many books.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: You tend to forget song titles and things that go
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: in certain books.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: It's one of your eleven appearances, people can find it.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but certain alternative bands had country leanings in it.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: So maybe listening to wil Coe after you hear Nirvana unplugged,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: there wasn't that much of a stretch, And maybe that's
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: the thing that connects the dots a little bit.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: You could say, how about female rockers in the nineties,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: A lot of female rockers who's in Vega Lennis Morris said,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: just off the top of my head, cranberries, yes, lush, lush, Yeah.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: What was cool about the female rockers that came out
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: during that period? Too, was they weren't just pretty faces
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: and you just you know, throw guitar, strap, guitar on
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: the shoulder and let's see, you know, let's just do
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: the best we can. These are badass musicians.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean the one thing too that you know,
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: look back in the late eighties when you looked at
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: rock music for you know, by and large, especially when
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: it came to like metal, it was almost exclusively just men,
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: white men. You know. Then you get to the nineties
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: alternative rock and it's you know, it's men, women, different races,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: you know, it's like all which to me was a
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: throwback to the late sixties early seventies when you had
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: bands like Santanas, Line the Family Stone, which was great.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: So that's what also made it very unique.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Liz Fair was another one from the nineties.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: There were some fantastic female performed ex excuse me, there
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: were some fantastic female alternative artists like b York was phenomenal.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: You had also PJ. Harvey who was fantastic. She was great.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Lush again, I love Lush. That's one of my favorites
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: from especially the nineties. There were two singers I think
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: there was well, the lead singer in My Bloody Valentine
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: was a woman. There were actually two females in that band.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: So oh and then you know, and again by going
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: back to the book and me getting reconnected with some
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: bands I hadn't heard a long time. A band called Helium,
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: which is a very underrated band. That's a great band
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: as well. And yeah, that that's a female fronted band,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: A band called a band called also Royal Trucks. Yeah,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: influenced by the Velvet Underground, you could say, they're also
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: very a very cool, unique band from from the time.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: There's a story in the book Royal Trucks blew an
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: entire advance on drugs. Jennifer Hirama's the vocalists. Yeah, and
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: what did she tell you about that? That's a true story?
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well there was most of it.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say. One thing that I did with
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: this book is there were a few stories over the
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: years that were never really confirmed. So yeah, I was.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: I asked her about that. That was a famous story
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: in the Alt Rock Underground that Royal Trucks blew a
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: whole album advance on drugs. And it's partly true and
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: part it is true, but it wasn't like a huge
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: million dollar advance. It was not a lot of money,
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: but still, I mean it was a quote unquote album advanced.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: I guess it is true. But then there was also
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: one of the cool interviews I did for this book
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: was Ian Mackay from the band Fugazi, and he also
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: set the record straight. There was a famous story over
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: the years that people always talked about that supposedly he
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: and Fugazi turned down a million dollar album deal offer
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: from Ahmed Ertigan, and he talked about that, and that
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: wasn't necessarily true. One thing he did talk about which
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: I never knew, there was another label that came along,
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: dream Works, that offered him also the Kings to the Kingdom,
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: and he said no because they had their own label
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: and they were totally Their label is called Discord Records,
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: and they were able to call the shots and be
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: in control of everything. And they were like, Nah, we
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: just want to do our thing. We don't need you guys.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Now, this story about Google Doll's name, I've never heard
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: this before. I don't know if it's been out there,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: but there is a story behind it. The song is
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: about somebody. Johnny Resnick wrote it about somebody an MTV VJ.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is about Alan Hunter.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Johnny Resliy kind of crush on. Wow, who knew? Do
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: you want to tell the story? Are you gonna yes?
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: No, I'll say it's actually Kennedy, Yeah, the VJ Kennedy,
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: who now is best known for her political TV hosting stuff. Right,
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: what's funny? My parents watch you know, political stuff. I personally,
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: I'm not into politics at all, but they were very
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: They're like, oh, yeah, you know, we know how we
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: like her. She's on the TV doing interviews, blah blah blah,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, you know, back in the nineties she was
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: all about like alternative music, and she's like, oh, I
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: didn't know that, so now.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: She figured it out. He didn't say anything, but she
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: figured it out and then ran into him or talk
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: to him on the phone. No, she ran into him
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: and said that's about me, isn't it? Yes?
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Exactly? Yeah.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: And then he was married, wasn't he?
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, he was, he was married, but he he felt
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: a deep attraction to her and they hung out and
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: but she, you know, didn't want to, I guess, become
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: his girlfriend because he because she knew that he was
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: actually married. So it just wound up ending, But then
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: he wound up and wrote that song, and yees, she
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: heard the song. I think she heard it as like
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: a advanced cassette, and she heard the lyrics, and she
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: put two and two together, and she confronted him, and
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: about ten years ago she put out she put out
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: her own book, and she talked a little bit and that.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I wanted I when I spoke to her
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: for this book, I wanted her to retell the story.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: And I think she even expanded a little bit on it,
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: maybe included a few things she didn't talk about previously.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: There's a particular line in the song, like this is
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: the line. Maybe for a while there was a specific
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: line that really had her.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: I'll be honest, I was never a big fan of
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: that song, So I can't really I can't. I bet
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: the lyrics I can't tell. I mean, I could recount
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: the lyrics to the song Galaxy from the band Blind Melon,
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: but not so much the song name by the band
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Googoo Donalds.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Same here, right, Galaxy is a great song. Yes, Chapter
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: nineteen titled Second Waivers. At one point, we start to
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: see these bands popping up and they're jumping on the Bandwagon.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: You mentioned it by the mid nineties, right, that's is
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: that when it starts to really start to happen. And
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: who are some of the bands who took the most
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: heat for this?
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, about ninety four to ninety five is when we
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: start getting some very obvious bands that are just kind
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: of like not really see. The thing that I love
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: so much about the early nineties bands is they were
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: all doing something unique. Nine Schnails didn't sound did not
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: sound like Smashing Pumpkins, Smashing Pumpkins, didn't sound like blind Melon.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Blind Melon didn't sound like Primus, on and on and on.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: At a certain point, you start getting bands that are
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: shamelessly ripping off Nirvana, shamelessly ripping off Pearl Jam. Where
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: you have these bands where the music sounds like Nirvana
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: but the vocalist sounds like Laane Staley vice versa. Like
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: stuff is weird stuff going on? I mean the band
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: that comes to mind automatically is the band Bush that
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: got a lot of heat. But music is so awful
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: at this time that when I hear a Bush song now,
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, it's actually not that bad. I can
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: a Bush song from nineteen ninety four to nineteen ninety
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: five is a pleasure to hear. Then most of the
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: mainstream rock music that I tend. You know that I
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: hear on commercials and stuff nowadays.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: It's so true. Yeah.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: And then also you have to give Gavin Rossdale credit.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: He wrote all those songs himself. I'mlike, now, where you
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: have all these Schlemiel's hiring like fifty professional songwriters to
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: write one stupid song.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: You know, I always love stone Table Pilots, but they
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: were kind of umped in with that, right they were
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: jam ripoff and I just.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: I will give stun Table Pilots credit. Their first album
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: I was never really a big fan of, which is
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: called core. It's very very derivative. But to their credit,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: from the second album on, they totally ditched the whole. Like,
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: for instance, Scott Wiland was a great singer, but on
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: the first album he's I think too much Eddie vetterish,
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: But from the second album on, he's not sounding anything
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: at all like like Vetter.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: They became their own band from that.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. Yes, so Stuntile Pilots, I don't at the time,
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: they definitely caught a lot of heat, but I wouldn't
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: even put them in like the ripoff type bands, which
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: then of course leads the late nineties early two thousands,
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: which the net the net year of it is uh
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: nickelback and also bands like that, Ah God, Jesus horrible. Yeah,
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: just yeah, I mean yeah, I'll admit I once did
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: interview the singer from Creed and he was a very
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: nice chap on the phone. But that's that. Yeah, yeah,
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: but which is not a fan of their music, not
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: a fan of yeah, just uh didn't do it for me.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: I love the stories in the book. Like we mentioned
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: the name by Google dolls. Just behind that, there was
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: a song from the movie Jerry Maguire that inspired an
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: ever Clear classic. Ever Clear one of my favorite bands
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: that come out of that period too. By the way,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: what was this the song? Now?
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: It's a Bruce Springsteen song. It's something garden, is it?
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Do you know what? It's called? Secret, Secret Garden? There
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: we go, Okay, yeah, yeah, he's uh he art. Alex
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: Zachus tells a really good story that he had a
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: bit of writer's block and he was trying desperately. He
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: he kept trying to come up with a follow up
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: album to their big hit album, and he kept submitting
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: it to the record label, and there is one guy
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: he kept working with, I think it was the A
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: and R guy, and he keeps saying like, it's not there,
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: it's not there yet, it's not there yet. Trust me,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: you're gonna put if we put it out now, it'll
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: do okay, but it's not gonna do what you wanted
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: to do. So then Art had a very bad thing
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: of writer's block and just started really doubting himself. And
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: he was in New York City by himself, walking the street,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: was very very depressed, and he went to see the
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: movie called Jerry Maguire and there was that Springsteen song
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: in it, and something about that song inspired him. And
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: then he went back and he talked about I forgot
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: what song he wrote her songs, but it inspired him,
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: and finally he wrote songs that he submitted, and the
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: A and R guy was like, good and yes, now
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: we finally have an album worthy of a follow up
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: and everything.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: So they had a big run. They did.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: They did that, and also again give him credit, I'm
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: pretty sure he wrote all those songs himself, or at
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: least most of those songs himself.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: So yeah, you know, the death of Kirk Cobain April
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four. Did that moment alter the course of
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: all rock? Was it the beginning of the end? Or
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: was it already on the decline and going to commercial
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: at that point?
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Well, it's impossible to say. We don't know what would
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: have happened if Kurt lived. I mean, there's some great
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: quotes in the book. I think one person hits the
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: nail of the head is Craig Wedren, the singer from
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: the band Shutter to Think. He says, when you have
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: people like Kurt Cobain, or Jim Morrison, or Jimi Hendrix
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: or Janice Choplin, when these people die at a young age.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, now I'm just adding my own thing. I'm
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: not putting words in his mouth. But he made a
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: comment or a point similar to this that when these
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: people die at a young age, they die at their peak.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: They're you know, they're they're the most attractive, they've put
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: out nothing but good music, and then you know, they're
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: just that's the image we always have of them in
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: our head. There's no chance of them putting out their
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: van Halen three perhaps, you know, or there's no chance
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: of them putting out their music from the elder or
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: their hot space or their you know, Lulu, you know there's.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: No or just aging aging.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Or falling off the stage or you know, getting plastic
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: surgery that doesn't go well, like all these things that
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: happen to people as they get older and they get
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: crucified for you know, in the oppress. So, you know,
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: when Kurt Cobain died when he did, Nirvana was still
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: hugely popular. But what's funny too, that tends to get forgotten.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: And I remember this as a fact, and Bill Gould
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: from Faith No More confirmed confirmed this in the book.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: Nirvana was kind of looked at as not on the decline,
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: but they definitely had peaked at that point. So if
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Kurt Cobain didn't die when he did, there's always a
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: chance that Nirvana, who know, maybe their next album wouldn't
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: have Maybe they could have possibly declined, but you'd like
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: to think not because they did have a pretty huge
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: you know following still and they were lined up they
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: were going to be on Mallapalooza that summer, so they
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: were still very much in demand. But I mean, just
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: to put things in perspective, I know, Pearl Jam at
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: that point was much bigger, like they put out verses
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: and that I think set the record for like most
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: copies sold, and it was selling millions and millions of
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: albums in the first week exactly so. But but over time,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: of course has gone to be, you know, probably the
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: hugest rock band of the nineties.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: So look what happened with Pearl Jam in the second
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: half of the nineties. Though they're popularity faded, which I.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Think you's to say, the.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: Mainstream audience grows tired of a certain genre and they
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: move on to the next thing, whereas fans like us
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: will stick with a band, but not everybody does, and.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: Then something else you never know. I mean, I'm a
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: huge Smashing Pumpkins fan, just their first two albums. If
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: you told me after Siami's Dream and how much I
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: love them at that point that yeah, from their next
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: album on, it's going to sound like a different band.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: You're not gonna like it. I just never liked the
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: which to me, Melancholy is the hugest album they've ever
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: put out, but it just never ever did it for me.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: It just sounded I am with you.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're singing this, I don't like his singing on that.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: The production. I don't like it sounds like a double
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: album that you're it's been a single album. It sounded
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: like it was all yeah, it just it just lacked
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: the special magic of Sign's dreaming and even Gish I
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: think is better than that.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: So with you on that, Greg, yeah, that I remember
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: there was there were songs that I could pick and
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: choose and really like nineteen seventy nine I would say
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: is probably my favorite.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: I would say if Melancholy was a single album and
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: if you had also Butcher Vig producing, I think that
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: album would have been a thousand times better. Yeah, And
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: then again, that album has sold zillions of copies.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was like ninety five, ninety six, yeah.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Thirty five. Yeah, but then yes, but like what my
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: point is, so yeah, So who's to say that Nirvana's
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: next album wouldn't have sucked? You know, because I would
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: have never guessed because how much I love Smashing Pumpkins
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety four that a year later I just
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: would not like their next album. But the thing for
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: me personally, yes, Kurt Cobaine's death did definitely affect me,
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: but the rock death of the nineties that affected me
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: the most by far, is definitely Shannon Huon.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: We've talked about it many times.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Tellen really connected with me more than most of the
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: other bands, more so than even Nirvana. We all have
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: our bands that we connect with, you know, just on
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: a personal level and also musical level. And Blind Melon
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: and also Shannonhan was that band for me and I
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: was really expecting big things for them, and it just
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: it to this day. You know. It's I hate when
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: musicians die young, or just of course when just about
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: anyone dies young. But Shannon Hoon to me, I really
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: wanted to I would have loved to have seen what
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: they would have done on the next few albums, because
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: that Soup album is probably my favorite album of all
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: the nineties, all rock albums.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Do you know how much of a fan I am?
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: And you wrote two books.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, the first one is called A Devil on
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: One Shoulder and the second one is just merely called Shannon.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: And you've gotten pretty close to the guys in the
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: band because of it.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Actually, Christopher Thorne just texted me yesterday. I sent
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: him a copy of the book and I interviewed Roger
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: Stevens for this book and he Christopher thanked me for
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: put there's a picture of them in that, and there's
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: of Shannon and also Blind Melon music throughout, So that
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: was pretty cool.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess it answers my question. This is the
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: last question, is what do you think? There are a
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: lot of underrated or forgotten bands that you shed light
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: on in this book, which is great. If you had
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: to pick one, who's the most underrated band of the nineties,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: is it Blind Melon?
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: And no, because underrated. I mean that first album sold
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: millions and millions of copies. So you know, Blind Melon
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: is better known than say Morphine, or they're better known
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: than Greatly Buffalo, or they're better known than the band Slint.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: But all those bands are just mentioned are all fantastic.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: So if you had to pick one the most underrated
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: that really didn't get much attention and should have.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Hmm, let's think about that for a second. Yeah, you know,
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: like ah, I mean, it's it's easy for me to
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: say Blind Melon, but the band that I love that
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: I still listen to this album to this day and
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: it's so original and it's definitely not for the masses.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: I understand why it was not a huge album and
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: the band was not huge, but still it should have
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: on like it should have been a perfect world? Is
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: the band Shudder to Think?
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me about these guys. I've never heard anything
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: from them.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: They put out an album called Pony Express Record, and
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: I remember I bought it in late nineteen ninety four
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: because I was such a big Smashing Pumpkins fanatic at
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: that point. I would read interviews or concert reviews and
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: stuff and Shudder to Think was affiliated with Smashing Pumpkins.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: They played shows together. I think they opened for Smashing Pumpkins.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: So it is at the point that like i'd walk
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: in Tower Records and I'd see their CD. I'm like, oh, yeah,
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: I remember them through Smashing Pumpkins. Maybe I'll check this out.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: So I remember buying it. It's one of those albums
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: that you hear it once or twice you're like, eh,
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know about this, but similar to Blind Melon Soup,
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: the more you hear it, the more you get attached
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: to it, and then you realize how fantastic it is
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: and how totally original it is and how timeless it is.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: Matt Pinfield once had a great description of them that
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: they sound like Sheer Heart Attack era Queen.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: Hmm.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: So it's very difficult to It was art rock. It
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: was that Sheer heart Attack Eraic Queen. They came out
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: of Discord Records, which is you know, Fugazi, so it's
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: also post hardcore. It's all these different genres that they
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: were doing. And the singer is a fantastic singer. He
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: can sing up way high, he can do all these
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: different styles of music. Similar almost. I mean, they don't
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: sound like Faith No More, but maybe similar to Faith
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: No More, Angel Dust and also the album King for
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: a Day, Full for a Lifetime that it's all. It's
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: an album has a bunch of different styles on it.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: That's what makes them so unique.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: Midlife Crisis love that song. So that's cool. Though. I
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: got a few bands that I want to give a
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: listen to now, suggestions from you. One band we didn't
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: talk about it at all, which is one of my
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: favorite bands to come out of the nineties, Collective Soul.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: That's a band I actually interviewed the singer for song Facts,
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: and I was debating, like should I put in because
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, the thing something that I kind of enjoyed
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: with this book that I made it a point to do.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: The last two chapters are the stories behind some of
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: the classic alt rock albums of the nineties, and also
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: stories behind some of the classic alt rock songs. And
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: it's from either the actual it's it's from an actual
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: band member or a video director or someone that's somehow
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: affiliated with that album or that song or that band.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: And in some instances, like I may have already had
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: an interview done for like song Facts the website, but
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: I'd say about ninety percent of this book is all
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: original new interviews, but for some of them, I was
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: able to reuse quotes like that. And I interviewed the
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: singer from Collective Soul, and I was on the fence.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: I was like, hmm, should I put him talking about
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: Shine in the book? And just due to time contraits,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: space constraints, I had to ax that.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: So okay, Yeah, that to me one of the most
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: underrated bands, although they were they were huge in the nineties,
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: but I still love them, and I would put Dosage
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: among the best albums of the decade.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: Are you familiar with the album Mighty Joe Moon by
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: Grant Lee Buffalo, No, that's a great album you should
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: check out, Are you okay? And then we also talked
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: about urban Dance Squad, Mental Flaws for the Globe yep.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: And also Sebado's Bake Sale is a fantastic album as well.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: Sebado's Bake Sale.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, Sebado is Lou Barlow. He's also in the
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: band Dinosaur Junior. He's in both bands.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: Sebado is his kind of solo project that he sings
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: and plays. He plays guitar and Sebado plays bass in
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: Dinosaur Junior.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Wow. All right, So the book Alternative for the Masses
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: the nineties Alt Rock Revolution in Oral History out now
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: goodbye wherever books are sold, right, Yeah, absolutely look for
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Engineer's Bookstore. Look for at Gene independent bookstore. If you
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: want to find your nearest independent book store, go to
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: bookdown rock dot com. Where can people find you online? Greg?
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: Before we make this announcement about the next book.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, go to x dot com slash Greg Prato writer.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: That's always a good place. I'm always posting my latest
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: interviews and articles and book and I was gonna say
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: book ideas, but no, I keep those hush hush but
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: book release dates and things like that. So yeah, I
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: say that's probably the best way. And of course it's
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: go to Amazon and go to the book section, do
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: a search for Greg Prado, and you will be assaulted
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: by a huge amount of books that you could choose from,
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: which I think is perfect for the holiday season, don't you.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Eric, Absolutely, And if you're a sports fan, yes, you've
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: got some books on New York sports. You got the Jets.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: You have the book on the Islanders, the Mets, the Yankees,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: the Mets, the Yanks.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'll tell you it's brutal being.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: A seven Jets. Oh and then I ended up getting
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers, which I was teasing you about. Now I've
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: got it.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say, and you get the Aaron Rodgers.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: That's good.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean the poor Jets. The question is
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: will they go oh in seventeen do you think?
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: I hope they do because I want them to totally
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: clean house, get rid of their head coach, get rid
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: of everything. I want Woody Johnson to even sell the team.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: But I don't think. I don't think that's ever gonna
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: happen anytime soon because he's making too much money. But
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: now they have to clean house. They have to just
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: start from scratch, that that whole organization is just a
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: complete embarrassment.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: You heard it here, folks. Greg Greg Prauto, fan of
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: the Jets, wants them to go in seventeen.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, because that's the only way that's gonna I think
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: create a big change. I think, yeah, I think.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: By the way, this new book is from our friends
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: at Motor Books.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, indeed it is. Yeah. I want to give a
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: shout to them too. They did an absolute, absolutely phenomenal
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: job with formatting it. The photos are fantastic, excellent, excellent
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: jobs to those gentlemen. I give you all a random.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: Applause absolutely, Steve Roth and the guys at Motor Books.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, superb. Thank you guys, preaching to.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: The choir on that one. Yeah, so let's talk about
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: the big news.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, the big news.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: What's the next book?
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: Okay? Me, Like a lot of people were very upset
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: by the great Ace Fairlies passing. And after he passed,
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: I realized, you know, I interviewed Ace a lot of
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: times over the last fifteen years or so. So I
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: went back and looked at the interviews and I realized,
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: you know, I have all these interviews where he talks
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: about pretty much all phase of his career. Because like,
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: although he'd be promoting a solo album. I would always
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: ask some questions about Kiss and about even his personal
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: life and his hobbies and things like that, and he
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: was always a great interview. He was always very honest
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: and very very friendly, a great, great guy. So I thought,
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: you know what if as a tribute to Ace, I
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: put together a book that compiles all the interviews I did,
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: and also do interviews with some people, some very well
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: known rock people that were fans of Ace and them
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: talking about what made him so great, as great and
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: also influential, because I think you'd probably agree with me, Eric,
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: along with probably Eddie Van Hall and Ace Frehley, has
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: to be two or three right behind. As far as
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: how many people he was a huge influence on.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, how many I'm so influential. How many guitar
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: has picked up a guitar because they watched Ace freely
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: or listened to them or saw him on that a
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: live album cover. Right.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: So, the next book, which I'm gonna be Rush releasing,
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna put this out through my own company,
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: Greg Predo, writer, is called I'm Reading It, So don't
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: get the title wrong. Talk to me conversations with Ace
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: Freeley by Greg Prada.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: Oh man, that's so cool, Greg, Yeah, that's just I
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: love Ace. I love Ace, love Kiss, and I think
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: that's great that you're doing that because it's going to
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: give us the story in his words. And that's interesting
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: because I did a tribute episode just this week. I
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: put it out and how many times did I hear
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: brutally honest, honest, told it like it is, but also
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: friendly guy, very nice guy. There's a picture of the picture.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: It's the picture of me and Ace when I did
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: an interview with him back in two thousand and nine.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: I don't if you could see that.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's when Anomaly came out in nine, right, Yes, yeah, yeah,
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: I love that album. That's probably his most personal, deeply
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: personal album.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: He was he was kind of have to sign this
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: to me, he says too, Greg rock on Ace feeling
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: that was nice to him that he signed that for me.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: Ace Ace man one of a kind. I'm still reeling
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: and I'm just listening to nothing but a solo and Kiss.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you know it's it's definitely hit me
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: the same way when of course Eddie van Halen passed
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: away Neil part you know, it's sad that we're just
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: at the age now that these guys are getting old
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: and it's just they just sadly part of life.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: What's different from Eddie with Ace was as a journalist.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll agree. I mean, Ace was a guy
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: who could give great interviews and didn't mind doing interviews.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: Edie was a little shy, didn't want to do that
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: kind of thing. And I think for Ace that helped
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: him a lot, kept him in the spotlight. He always
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: enjoyed talking about and he and again told it like
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: it is he did. So people keep an eye out
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: for that and just do what I do. I will
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: go to Amazon and I signed up. I clicked on
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: the what is it the follow Greg Prado link? Yes, Amazon,
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: So that there you go. All right, Greg, thanks man.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: We will we'll look forward to it. We'll have you
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: back on for that Ace book.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: I hope great.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, yeah cool. We'll share some stories from inside
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: that one. Greg, thanks man.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: Thanks Eric.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: That's it. It's in the books.