Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Pretty Woman with Andrea Werhun and Nicole Bazuin

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Pretty Woman with Andrea Werhun and Nicole Bazuin · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On The Bechdel Cast. The questions asked if movies have
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Hey, Jamie, Hey, Caitlyn, look at this necklace. I got you.
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: Wow, And that's so nice.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: That part of the movie was giving me cal Hockley
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: giving the Heart of the Ocean to Rose.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: It is a very low stakes Heart of the Ocean. Yeah, yeah,
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: very low stakes.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he's just borrowing it, right, he didn't even
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: buy it for her.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: It's a loner. We're not worried about where it comes from.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: And I think that it gets returned, you know, without
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: a problem. I feel like it's Deis X necklace, like,
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: but you're just like, no, it just ends up being
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: a nice necklace. And then it snaps closed and she goes,
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: oh with all five thousand of her teeth, and we
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: love and worship every single one of them.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: We sure do. Hello and welcome to the Bechdel Cast.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: My name is Caitlyn Deronte.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: My name is Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: where we take a look at your favorite movies using
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: an intersectional feminist lens and using the Bechdel Test as
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: a jumping off point for discussion. Caitlin H. What is
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: the Bechdel Test?
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you it is a mediometric created by dear
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: friend of the show, Alison Bechdel, first appearing in her
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: comic dis To Watch Out for It requires that for
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: our standards, because there are many different versions of it.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: But for us, do two characters of a marginalized gender
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: have names? Do they speak to each other? And is
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: there conversation about something other than a man? And we
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: particularly like it when it's narratively meaningful and not just
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: throw a dialogue that could be cut from the movie
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: and it would make no difference.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: So today we are covering We're sort of like I
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: think this is sort of the theme of the tenure
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: of the podcasting. So many movies that you would think
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: we would have covered in the last ten years, but
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: somehow we didn't. One of the most I think influential
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  Speaker 3: movies of its generation, one of the most successful movies
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: in all of movies at the time of its release.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: We are at long last covering Pretty Women nineteen ninety
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: directed by Gary Marshall and written by a writer named J. F.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Lawton.
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  Speaker 3: I don't know, and we have two incredible guests to
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: cover it with you. Just a little peak behind the curtain.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: We're recording this in the future, and I wanted to say, like,
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: we could have talked about this movie for five consecutive hours. Yes,
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: this is a rich, rich, rich text that there's been
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: a lot of different reactions to over the years. There
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: is definitely stuff we didn't have time to get to
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: because of time constraints for this episode. If there is
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: a perspective or I thought you had about this movie
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: that we didn't cover in the space this episode, we'd
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: love to hear it, either you know, reach us out
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: to us on social media or especially if you're a
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: member of our patreon aka Patreon. It's a fun place
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: to have community discussion as well. Yeah. Yeah, with that,
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: let's let's get into it. Let's get our guests in
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: the mix.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: They are the filmmakers behind Modern Whore, director Nicole Design
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: and writer performer Andrea Warehan. Welcome, Hey, thanks so much
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: for being here.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're so excited to be talking to you about
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  Speaker 3: this movie and to be talking to you about your
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: movie congratulations.
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much. Thanks for having us. We're so excited.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: Of course, the pleasure is all ours. Let our listeners
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: know a little bit more about the documentary and sort
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: of how it came together over the years.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, So, Modern Whore is a hybrid documentary directed by
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  Speaker 4: myself and co created with Andrea Ware, who is the subject.
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: Slash star because this is a hybrid documentary where she
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: not only talks to you know, the audience about her
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: experiences as a es scort and stripper working in Toronto,
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: she also acts out those experiences in a series of
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  Speaker 4: highly stylized reenactments that really run the gamut from humorous
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: to uncomfortable to sad or scary, but ultimately that we
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: want to be joyful and offer something new in terms
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: of sex work representation.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really enjoyable and affecting to watch. We're curious
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  Speaker 2: because at the top of the documentary you say that
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: in movies, books, media, in general, sex workers are usually
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: depicted as either victims or villains. And because our show
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: is all about representation and media, could you talk a
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: little bit more about your impressions of the way sex
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: workers are represented on screen. Traditionally, historically, et cetera.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not pretty.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: It's not pretty woman, it's woman, and.
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  Speaker 5: The hooker usually ends up dead or is the punchline
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: or is you know, pretty woman. Obviously we've got the
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: hooker with a heart gold story, but we've also got
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: a hooker in a dumpster.
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  Speaker 2: At the beginning.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, right at the beginning to set us up,
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  Speaker 5: like that's what we expect when we see sex workers
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: on screen. So yeah, I think that that's like the
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: general sort of range of depictions that we see from
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  Speaker 5: the brains of voyeuristic civilians with their nefarious intentions. When
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: it comes to depicting us on screen, we're we're like
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: manic pixie dream whorees. You know, we show up to
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  Speaker 5: further the plot, but we don't actually ever get our
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: own stories. We don't have nuanced it's very like one
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  Speaker 5: note and yeah, we usually end up dead.
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  Speaker 2: Totally, so many tropes, so many you know, the object
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: of the punchline kind of thing.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: And you use the documentary to sort of expand I
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: mean bringing in your friends who are sex workers and
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  Speaker 3: also just a diverse group of perspectives in sex work specifically. Yeah,
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: how did that come together? And I don't know, I
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: really appreciated that there was, especially after watching Pretty Woman,
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  Speaker 3: a diverse group of sex workers and artists with Nuance
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: and you know, like just all this and everyone's so funny. Anyways,
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: what was it like sort of bringing this group together
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: for the movie and kind of revisiting this period of
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: your life.
• 6:47
  Speaker 5: Well, I'm happy to say that, you know, all of
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  Speaker 5: those sex workers that are featured in the film are
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  Speaker 5: people have collaborated with artistically in the past, and they're friends.
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: So like, there are people that I know. They're not
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  Speaker 5: just you know, figures of representation to be dropped into
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: the film to check a box, you know, their real
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: life people that I know that are making art or
• 7:08
  Speaker 5: you know, living their lives and doing advocacy and also
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: come to this work with you know, vastly different backgrounds
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  Speaker 5: and experiences. But at the end of the day, what
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  Speaker 5: we all have in common is that we believe that
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  Speaker 5: each and every sex worker deserves to be treated with
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: dignity and respect, you know, regardless of that experience. So
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: it was great to get them all on board to
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  Speaker 5: be in the film, you know, pretty early on in
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: the process, and those interviews in the film arise out
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: of you know, continuous conversations with them about what they
• 7:42
  Speaker 5: feel comfortable talking about on screen. You know, what we
• 7:46
  Speaker 5: wanted to bring to life in the movie. What were
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: the topics related to sex work that we never get
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: to see on screen? And you know, all of those
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  Speaker 5: sex workers brought something of themselves and what they feel
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: like they never get to see to the movie, which
• 8:03
  Speaker 5: is you know, enormously incredible. And I think it was
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: really important since this was an adaptation of my memoir.
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  Speaker 5: You knows, it's a very prescient critique that I am
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  Speaker 5: a cis white femme who has written a sex work memoir.
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  Speaker 5: Like you stop me if you've heard this one. It's
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  Speaker 5: a common thing, and we need to be able to,
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  Speaker 5: you know, open the door to other sex worker experiences
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  Speaker 5: and other sex worker voices to be able to tell
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  Speaker 5: their own stories. It's extremely important and understanding that, like,
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  Speaker 5: I'm not going to be able to do that, and
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  Speaker 5: I shouldn't do that. That's not my role. I'm not
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  Speaker 5: here to speak for anybody. It's important for sex workers
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  Speaker 5: always to be able to speak for themselves totally.
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  Speaker 2: And it's really impressive the wide range of topics that
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  Speaker 2: you cover with your collaborators, colleagues, fellow sex workers. You're
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: talking about the criminalization of sex work. You're talking about
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  Speaker 2: the importance of community. You're talking about not being given
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  Speaker 2: opportunities to meet your fellow co workers and experience solidarity
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  Speaker 2: in some cases. You talk about shame, you talk about
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  Speaker 2: romantic relationships, you talk about trauma, porn like it's there's
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: so many and that's just the tip of the Iceberg
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: parentheses Titanic reference.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: But I love it.
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: You know what Rose was posing nude? I guess not
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: for money, but like like one of the.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: French girls that she pays him exactly.
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: Yes, yes, you're in going to bring her into the folds, right.
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  Speaker 2: And So, because you're such a huge advocate of the
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  Speaker 2: importance of sex workers telling their own stories, what are
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  Speaker 2: some ways you would like to see representations of sex
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  Speaker 2: work and sex workers in fiction, in movies and television.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, And are there any specific productions movies, books, whatever
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  Speaker 3: it is that you're like more people should be talking
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  Speaker 3: about this.
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely. I think like if we want to see
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  Speaker 5: representations of sex work change, we need to give decision
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  Speaker 5: making positions on TV and film sets. Two sex workers,
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  Speaker 5: you know, sex workers need to be writing their own depictions.
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  Speaker 5: We need to be directing these films, We need to
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  Speaker 5: be producing these films, editing these films. Opportunities need to
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  Speaker 5: be given to sex workers on any production that is
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: about sex work. If you don't have a sex worker
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  Speaker 5: with decision making power on that side, I just don't
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  Speaker 5: think that representation is ever going to be accurate. So
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: we need to pay sex workers to do that labor.
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: And you know, I hope one of the sort of
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: impacts of the film is that people understand just like
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  Speaker 5: how many sex workers are also artists.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Totally, you know, we who can.
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: Afford to be an artist in this economy, Like nobody's
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: doing that? But yeah, no one, it's unless you're a
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: NEPO baby like you come from generational wealth, like you
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: have those connections. Good for you. Most of us have
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: to work for a living, and sex work just presents
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: this opportunity to make a solid amount of money in
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: a short period of time with a flexible schedule that
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: really works well as artists, and so there is no
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: shortage of artistic talent. And I'm thinking about, like, you know,
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: the labor of producing it's really not that different from
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: being an independent sex worker, and you have to manage
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: all of these different things at the same time you're
• 11:45
  Speaker 5: doing all these jobs. Of course, you could be a
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: producer on a film and one sex work shouldn't ever
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: be a barrier to accessing these these jobs on a
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: film set. And so I just, you know, I think
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: that that's going to be really important for turning the
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: page on you know, thousands of years of representation of
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: sex work that don't involve us doing that labor. But
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: of course, like I'm thinking about fuck Toys, like fucked Toys, amazing,
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: amazing film Shadow to Annapurna, like truly that film is
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: so it feels like the future of sex work cinema.
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: And it's such a thrill to be kind of like
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: out with our movies at the same time. And we've
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: we've talked a lot together. We haven't been able to
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: meet in person yet shout out to the US border forever,
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: but you know, one day we will meet and will
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: be so so, so so happy. But yeah, that film
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: is like a really good example of sex workers being
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: in charge of that representation and demonstrating just how fucking
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: talented we are and that we have an eye that
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: no one else has when it comes to our labor.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, we've got to cover fuck toys.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: It's so good good.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Is there anything else you too wanted to say about
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: your film before we chat about Pretty Woman?
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: I will say one more thing. So our film starts
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: with Andrea making the assertion that, you know, the typical
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: depictions of sex work are typically victim or villain archetypes.
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: And you know, she also offers something along the way
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: that could be a new archetype called the fem vital
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: as opposed to a fatal. So certainly, I think this
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: is a film that just feels like a natural fit
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: to have your lens on. And I'm just really excited
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: to have had you highlight our project and think about,
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: you know, furthering the representations of sex work and having
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: that kind of thoughtfulness about.
• 14:00
  Speaker 6: The way that these archetypes exist on screen.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Totally. One of the closing sentiments of the documentary is
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: wanting to move away from the representation of a sex
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: worker needing a white knight to come and rescue them.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: And I don't know if that was a direct reference
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: to pretty Women or if it was just a more
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: of a reference to a general trope, But but it, really,
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: It can be both.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're so we're so excited about the viv and like,
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: truly in the first ten minutes, I was like, Oh,
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: our listeners are going to flip for modern horror, so congratulations.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: I'm just like cystoked.
• 14:39
  Speaker 5: Thank you.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's take a quick break and then we'll come
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: back to discuss Pretty Women and we're back.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: Before we get into the recap, what are your respective
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: histories with the movie Pretty Woman.
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: I have been reflecting on when I would have encountered
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: this film for the first time, and I think I
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: would have been a tween. I think I might have
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: been twelve when I watched this for the first time,
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: and you know, I was a kid who when I
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: heard the Cinderella Story as a bedtime story, my immediate
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: response was again, you know, I loved that kind of
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: story of you know, the Cinderella story, and so I
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: think I was certainly a prime target for that kind
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: of film being charming, you know. And I also really
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: loved and have always loved My Fair Lady with Audrey
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: Hepburn from nineteen sixty four, So you know, both stories
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: have that Cinderella element, and also both stories have that
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: Pygmalion origin that's in there, definitely exactly. So, you know,
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: I think that they kind of played into this core
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: fairy tale, satisfying makeover comedy story that that I really,
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: you know, felt into, felt engaged y. You know, you
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: love the Roy Orbison song right off the bat. It's
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: just so wonderful, and so to revisit that film again
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: over the years, it becomes one of those films that's
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: really interesting to revisit at different points in your life
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: and see your perceptions of it evolve.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Andrew, how about you.
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: I don't have anything nearly as eloquent to say about
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: my association with Pretty Woman. I don't recall ever having
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: like a super strong reaction to it. But I also
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: tend to have an aversion to anything I feel like
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: I'm supposed to watch or I'm supposed to like, So
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: there's like a bit of an avoidance there. But obviously,
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: as a sex worker, it's the penultimate sex worker film,
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: you know, so I feel like I felt kind of
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: like neutral or maybe avoidant about it. Fair and rewatching
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: it this weekend to talk about it was such a
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: revealing experience for myself.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Well, I can't wait to learn more about that.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Caitlyn, what about you? What's your I actually I don't
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: know your history with this movie.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: I saw it for the first time during the Great
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Caitlin Movie binge of two thousand and five, and then
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: I think maybe once or twice since then, so I've
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: seen it two or three times over the years, but
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: it had been probably ten or fifteen years since I
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: most recently saw it, so it was interesting to go back.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: You know, there are those iconic moments that everyone remembers
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: from it, like the bubble bath scene and the like
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: snapping the necklace case shut, all those like iconic moments,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: the red Dress.
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: Big Mistake, Huge, the big Mistake Huge.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: I sort of forgot that that was where that came from,
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: like I've said that, having no idea where it came from, so.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: I remember those. But yeah, it was definitely interesting rewatching,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: especially in the context of having just watched the documentary
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Modern Horre. So there's so much to talk about. Can't
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: wait to do it, Jamie, what's your history with it?
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: Andrea is similar to you, like I avoided this like
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: this and like The Godfather, like all of these movies
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: that I was just like, I don't need to watch this,
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: and actually it's cool that I haven't, and I stand
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: by that, but I did. I saw this movie for
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: the first time last year because this is the movie
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: that we've gotten requests for for years, because I mean
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: it's I guess something I didn't realize when I finally
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: did watch it was how like I knew it was
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: obviously a very influential movie, but that this was like
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: the highest grossing R rated movie until like last year.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: It made half a billion dollars in nineteen ninety, which
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: is terrifying.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: It was the fifth highest grossing movie of the time,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: just behind Star Wars et an Indiana Jones movie, and Jaws.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: That's how much of a worldwide phenomenon this movie was.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: I knew it was a classic, but I like and
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: people talk about it a lot, but yeah, I was
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: not aware of like just how big a movie it
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: was in its time. I love Julia Roberts, but as
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: this movie goes on, it just gets more and more frustrating,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: and by the end, I'm like tearing the skin off
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: my face and I have no attachment to it. So
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: by the last scene, I'm like screaming at the television
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: like it's a sports game. But yeah, I don't know.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: I'm excited to talk about it.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's dive into the recap and we'll go from there. Okay,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: quick content warning at the very top, because there's a
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: brief moment toward the end of the movie that involves
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: physical and sexual assault. We meet Edward Lewis played by
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Richard gear. He is a businessman who's in LA for
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: a work trip. He leaves at the party he's at,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: takes his lawyer, Phil Stuckey is his name, his car,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: and he's played by Jason Alexander.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the first shot of the movie is Jason Alexander
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: doing close up magic, which okay, I was not on
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: my bingo card for things that would happen in this movie.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: It's not him, it's not but he pops out right
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: behind the magician almost like a magic trick, and so
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: it looks like him, but it's a different guy.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: That's disappointing to hear. I know, I know.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: But anyway, Edward Lewis, he drives off in this car
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: and he's trying to get to Beverly Hills, but he's
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: getting lost along the way. Meanwhile, we meet Vivian Ward
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: played by Julia Roberts. She is a sex worker who
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: is getting ready for work that night. She's broke. She
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: has to climb out of the window to avoid her landlord.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: She heads into a club and confronts her roommate Kit
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: played by Laura san Giacomo, who used their rent money
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: to buy drugs and so they need to make some
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: money asap, and they start working their section of Hollywood Boulevard,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: and that's when Richard pulls up and asks Vivian for
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: directions for Beverly Hills. She gets in his car to
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: personally escort him to his fancy hotel, and when they arrive,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: he invites her to join him. They go up to
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Edward's penthouse room. She's getting looks from the stuffy rich
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: people inside. She's mocking them, and then when they're settled
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: in the room, she's expecting that Edward wants to have
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: sex right away, but he doesn't want to rush things,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: and he pays her to stay the whole night, and eventually,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: after like chatting, lounging watching some I Love Lucy, she
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: starts to undress. He asks what she's willing to do.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: She says everything except kiss on the mouth, so instead
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: she kisses him on the penis. The next morning, he
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: reveals what he does for a living, which is to.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: The worst answer ever.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: Every like romantic lead in nineties rom coms have like
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: a truly horrific job, like it, and it gives worse.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: His job gets worse because he ends up building worship.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: He's like mister military industrial complex. And then at the
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: end he's like, all right, you can continue to build
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: naval destroyers. You're like, now, are we rooting for this?
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: I don't week.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know it was horrible, but currently his job
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: is to buy and sell multimillion dollar companies. And so
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: the contrast between these two people's lives is becoming more
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: and more clear because he's rich, highly educated, very prim
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: and proper.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: Ding evil shit. It seems like without naps, like no naps,
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: no bathroom breaks, he's not eating.
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, But as he points out in the film,
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: they both do the same thing for a living. They
• 23:25
  Speaker 5: both screw people for money.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: Yes, yep, that's like nice try movie.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: One is a noble profession and the other one is
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: whatever the fuck he's doing.
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: I don't know if my ghost of her is calling
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: it a noble profession.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: But anyway, the contrast, so he's rich and all this stuff,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: she's broke, scrappy, a high school dropout. Despite their differences,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Edward tells her he's going to be in town for
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: a week and that he would like her to spend
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: that week with him, and they negotiate a rate of
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: paying her three thousand dollars for the week. He also
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: gives her money to buy quote unquote more appropriate clothing,
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: so she goes to shops on Rodeo Drive, but she's
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: getting more dirty looks from the shopkeepers. Some even tell
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: her to leave, so she gives up and returns to
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Edward's hotel, where she's hassled by the hotel manager, Bernard Barney.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: I feel like I will always be Joe from The
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: Princess Diaries to me, and he's basically playing the same
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: character in this movie.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, here was a thought I had, and I'm sure
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: it's not an original thought, but Princess Diaries is pretty
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: woman for a PG audience junior to the point it
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: has some of the same cast and the same director.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Garie Marshall.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: Well, that's yeah, that's Hector Alizondo. I think is in
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: every single Gary Marshall movie. I'm pretty sure that they're
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: like they are, they're tight, best buds. And then Larry
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: Miller is in both movies Akatesca. Oh my god, I
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: always forget because I'm always like, who is that. It's
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: always Polo Putnesca.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: It's always yeah every time, because he plays one of
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: the shopkeepers in Pretty Woman.
• 25:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah, the obscene amount of money.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: And so this hotel manager pulls Vivian into his office
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: to kind of reprimand her or maybe kick her out,
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: but they reach an understanding and then he arranges for
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: her to go to a boutique where she'll be taken
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: care of. And so she goes and gets a cocktail
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: dress for dinner that night, followed by her returning to
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Barney for help with like dinner etiquette.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: Which is like literally what he does in the Princess.
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: Diaries as well, just that it's a little type cast.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he's like, this is the guy who teaches
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: you what fork t is.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: For some reason, I also thought it was very Kathy
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Bates in Titanic Coded, where she's like, start on the out,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: fork lesson, start on the outside and work your way
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: in Wow. Four Lessons of cinema history. Yeah, we're's the
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: supercut of that. Okay. So that evening, Vivian and Edward
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: go to dinner with a business associate of Edwards, this
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: guy named mister Morse and his grandson. But the dinner
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: doesn't go well for anyone because Vivian is struggling with
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: the utensils and the food. Edward is insulting the guys
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: about the purchase of their company. So they are pissed
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: off and they storm away.
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: Okay, but they are charmed by her. Then nobody's mad
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: Vivian right, to be fair, It's not like, oh she said,
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: dumb Moore, She's just fucking everything up. But it's more
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: she's just like goofy Lucille bawling.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. I mean, to know Vivian is to love her,
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: and I mean it's also it's like Julia Roberts.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: She's so perfect, she's so charming. Yeah.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: And so after dinner, Edward and Vivian deprief and this
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: is the scene where they realize maybe they have more
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: in common that they than they thought. They both screw
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: people for money, they also have to detach emotionally to
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: be able to do their jobs and then a little
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: later they're canoodling and he keeps trying to kiss her
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: on the lips, but she's like, uh uh ah, that's
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: too intimate. So now they're just like caressing each other
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: on top of a grand piano. That scene, to me
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: is very hot. It is yeah, yes, beautiful the piano.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: Fuck. I mean it literally felt like I was like, oh,
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: I would watch the porn version of this. I'm sure
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: it exists. Yeah, I would like to see it.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: There are like men in the room that I think
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: like hotel staff that he sends away.
• 27:55
  Speaker 5: I'm just like, okay, that's easy. Your power for good.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I was like that for some reason, that detail
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: in that scene is so hot, Like I don't know,
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: he's like, please leave, I have to fuck on this piano,
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: and they're like totally awaken it.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: They're like exactly exactly. Yeah, okay, so the next Okay.
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: I did notice in the credits that that was an
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: original Richard Gear song that he was playing. No kidding,
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: he got the music credit for that.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Richard Gear. I mean it. It's like, I I'm
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: not gonna call him underrated. He's pretty rated, but he's
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: great and he has excellent politics. Which is like you
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: rarely get both.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: Also, maybe the only actor who has played a sex
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: worker in American Jigglow and a client in Pretty Woman.
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: Shout out to him, he's the real MVB.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: I still haven't seen American Jiggle you do? Do you
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: like it? Okay?
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: Cool?
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: Fucking love it.
• 28:49
  Speaker 6: It's really good, Telly.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: I need to see it too. Yeah. Okay. So the
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: next day, Vivian goes shopping for more clothes. This is
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: when we get the famous shopping montage while Roy Orbison's
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: song Pretty Woman is playing, and she buys a bunch
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: of again quote unquote appropriate elegant upperclass clothing. Meanwhile, something
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: something business Edward is rethinking buying Morse's company because of
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: something that Vivian said, maybe.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Which never really nothing really ever comes of that, because
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: I really love that she goes out of her way
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: to make an excellent point, which is, you don't build anything,
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: you don't make anything. You suck like you kind of
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: you kind of suck. Your job is made up. And
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: he repeats that but then sort of just well continue
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: to do it or he's like, oh no, that's why,
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: but that's why he lets the guys keep their military industrial.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Right, that's why he pivots and he's like.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: You make weapons of mass destruction.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: You're like, I'm gonna help.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: You're like, no, this is the business to shut down Edward.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's nuts. Yeah, He's like, oh, I guess
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: I should build and make things.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: I know, like naval destroyer, wore crime device, started Natsy's shop, Like,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: come on, I.
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: Love that he came to that after what literally taking
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: his socks off and walking on grass.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: He goes out. I love the scene where I wrote
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: down like Edward touches grass.
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: It's like, you know what, I'm gonna let them do
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: it build those ships.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: It's nuts.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: He has like so many love interests in this era
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: of rom Com. He's just useless. He's useless but so rich.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: That's true, he is. He reminded me a lot. I
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: was thinking a lot about Tom Hanks and You've got Mail,
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: who to me is like the evil rom com protagonist
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: because he's like shutting down Meg Ryan's bookstore.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's mister Barnes and Noble or whatever.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: An then we cut to a polo match that Edward
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: brings Vivian to all the rich people. Are like, who
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: is that woman that Edward is with? And then Phil
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: stucky thinks that she's there to commit corporate espionage and
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Edward is like, don't worry, she's a sex worker, except
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: he uses different language than that, So then Phil goes
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: up to her, being like, Edward told me what you
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: do for a living. Maybe we could get together sometime.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: He's being very sleazy about it, and Vivian is hurt
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: and pissed at Edward about this, and she wants to
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: call off the rest of their arrangement, but he apologizes
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: and asks her to stay. She says, okay, just don't
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: hurt me again. They ca noodle some more in bed.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: She tells him her backstory, including how she got into
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: sex work, and he says, you're so bright and special.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: You could be so much more than that, and we'll
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: talk about that. Then they're getting ready for an evening out.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: This is the necklace case snap thing. They bored a
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: private jet to San Francisco, where he takes her to
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: the opera. She's incredibly moved by it. The next day,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: this is the like Edward takes off work to touch
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: grass with Vivian and oh my gosh, are they falling
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: in love.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: He's doing that, like he's like reading her Shakespeare quotes
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: in the park. You're just like, it's so, it's so corny.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: I was there. I don't know it would work for
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: some For me, I was like if I was held
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: hostage in someone's arms while they read Shakespeare quotes to me,
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: I would not I just wouldn't love it. But to
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: each their own.
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: I feel like we have to remember that this man
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: has never apparently taken a day off in his life,
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: and sure she's the one who's like, come on, just
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: take a day off, just try and not work in
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: for once. And so maybe he's just cosplaying as somebody
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: and like he thinks it's that that's what the weed
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: to do, that's.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: What you're supposed to do.
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's reading Shakespeare quotes in the park.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like, I've heard of Shakespeare in the park.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: Is this it.
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: Flu?
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Anyway, So they're like really vibing and they even kiss
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: on the lips.
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: Turning point, Yeah.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Then it's their last day together, but he wants to
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: see her again and basically like set up a whole
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: new life for her with an apartment, a car, access
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: to his money to go shopping, but that's not enough
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: for her. She wants a dashing night on a white
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: horse to come and rescue her, meaning she wants love, romance, intimacy,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: and he's like, mm, that's nice, but I'm not capable
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: of giving you that right now.
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: He can't afford it.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, his emotional currency, his bank account is empty.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: It's like, I have to go negotiate a weapons of
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: mass destruction deal. I don't have time for intimacy love.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We cut to Edward in his meeting with mister
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Morse and Stucky is furious that Edward is bailing on
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: this very lucrative deal, so Stucky takes it out on Vivian,
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: pays her a visit in the hotel room, tries to
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: rape her. She's fighting him off. He strikes her, and
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: then Edward comes in and intervenes, but he still isn't
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: able to give Vivian the intimacy slash fairy tale ending
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: that she wants, so she leaves and packs up her
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: things and is about to move to San Francisco. Meanwhile,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Edward is heading to the airport, but he decides to
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: have the limo driver take him to Vivian's apartment. She
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: looks out the window and there he is a night
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: on his white stallion limbo thing, and he climbs up
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: the fire escape to her apartment, even though he's afraid
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: of heights, and he quote unquote rescues her and they
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: kiss the end. So let's take another quick break and
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: we will come back to discuss.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's get into it, and we'll let the two
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: of you sort of lead us here. What was sticking
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: out to you on this viewing of of Pretty Women?
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: I felt honestly struck by the Lucille Ball reference when
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: she is sitting at Edward's feet on their first night
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: and watching TV and Lucille Ball is just being a
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: little ham. I think that there was like a connection
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: being made between what she does as a sex worker
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: and what Lucille Ball is doing as this like entertainer,
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: as this comedian, because I think that's sort of what
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: Julia Roberts is bringing to that role. Is this like goofy,
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: goofy girl vibe. And I just I don't know. I
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: felt like the genuine connection that Lucille Ball has with
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: an audience being a woman comedian, and how few women
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: truly have been able to break out and be as
• 36:48
  Speaker 5: successful as she has been, like even still, you know,
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: men still dominate the industry. I just thought that that
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: was such an interesting thing for her to watch and
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: be delighted by, and then also using that moment to
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: initiate the action with her and Edward. I just like,
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: there's something about being a sex worker when you're with
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: a wealthy client and you're being paid a lot of
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: money for your time and you do get to just
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: be a goofball. That is a hidden world that most
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: people will never penetrate. But I really related pretty hard
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: in that moment, sure, and I thought it was quite
• 37:28
  Speaker 5: insightful connection.
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it definitely feels like, you know, the s cargo
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: scene feels a bit Love Lucy. But interestingly, the director
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: Gary Marshall was a writer on I Love Lucy. Oh
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: it's a little bit of a easter egg for his
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: prior work.
• 37:46
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: That also stuck out to me on this viewing because
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: it seems like they like they're interacting with different media
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: throughout the movie, and it always feels very very intentional
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: of they go see La Traviata is about a sex
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: worker who falls in love with a rich guy. I
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: think that she's literally watching My Fair Lady at one point,
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: or like watching the ending of it and starting with Lucy.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: It just, I don't know, put you in a good headspace.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think for all this movie's flaws, it
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: is worth noting that this is a movie and one
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: that again was a huge box office success. Everyone saw
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: this movie. Yeah, And it's about a sex worker who
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: is one of two main characters. So she's not a
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: side character, she's not a plot device, she's not the
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: punchline of a joke. She's actually a protagonist that is
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: given a personality and a sense of humor, and she
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: has shown as someone who is worthy of love. And
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: these are things that we typically don't get when it
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: comes to the representation of sex workers.
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: So the bar is on the floor, to be fair, is.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: It absolutely is now a hell? But that's something you know.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm curious what you both made of Vivian. Like
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: looking back at Vivian as a character in twenty twenty six.
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: I mean I honestly felt utterly charmed by her, to
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: be honest, and I don't I guess like meeting her
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: in twenty twenty six, or like reconnecting with her again,
• 39:27
  Speaker 5: I was surprised by having moved. I felt and actually,
• 39:31
  Speaker 5: in a strange way, how grateful I was for that
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: white night ending. I actually found myself really happy that
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: she got a happy ending.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: Fair totally.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: I was curious. I think it's just the happy ending
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: is was hard for me because he's just like, he's
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: such a piece of shit.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: But it was.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: Interesting learning about like the background of how much this
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: movie changed before it like made it to the screen.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: This is literally a Disney movie, which I was also
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: not aware of, but that it seems like, you know,
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: while this movie plays into certain tropes, the original script
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: played two completely different tropes around sex workers. It was
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: originally a very dark movie called three thousand that was
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: I mean worth saying is written by a straight guy who,
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: from what I can tell, had no actual connections to
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: sex work and was far more you know that. I
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: think in the original version, Vivian was struggling with drug addiction,
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: that she had been a sex worker for much longer
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: than the Vivian of the eventual movie is, and that
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: there is like a very sort of tragic They don't
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: end up together. They don't the happy ending doesn't happen
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: in the original version of the script.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was written as as a cautionary tale, like yes.
• 41:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and we have a million of those exactly. Also,
• 41:07
  Speaker 5: I think the thing I like about that ending too,
• 41:10
  Speaker 5: And this might be controversial to say, because I know
• 41:13
  Speaker 5: that we're you know, the sex worker justice refrain is
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: we don't need to be saved, you know, we don't
• 41:19
  Speaker 5: need a man to save us, like we can easily
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: take care of ourselves. The fact of the matter is,
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: I know so many sex workers personally for whom being
• 41:29
  Speaker 5: quote unquote retired by a client, by a whale, you know,
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: which Edward is, is actually the goal. The goal is
• 41:38
  Speaker 5: actually marrying an extremely rich guy and being set for life.
• 41:43
  Speaker 5: Some people do sex work for that reason. And I
• 41:46
  Speaker 5: think that that's accurate. And I am actually happy for
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: her that she was able to like set those terms
• 41:52
  Speaker 5: for herself beyond the like I've set you up with
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: an apartment, baby, and you're going to be You're gonna
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: be okay, And she's like, I want more than that.
• 42:00
  Speaker 5: And he earned that as far as I'm concerned, as
• 42:03
  Speaker 5: far as a client goes as a great client, go
• 42:05
  Speaker 5: for her girl.
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: And she does say at the end, in response to
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: him rescuing her is that she rescues him right back,
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: and they do underscore that notion. I think they do
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: writing wise, try to set up these two characters, what
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: are their dreams, what are the things that might be
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: holding them back. They're really taking pains to set up
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: what's holding Edward back in terms of his need to
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: control everything, his fear of heights feeling symbolic in terms
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: of not being willing to go outside of his comfort zone.
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: So certainly this is a bit of a manic Pixie
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: dream court that you mentioned earlier. Andrea who comes into
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: his life and disrupts all of that and helps him
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: have his toes, bear in the grass, etc.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: She's like, here, wear this wacky tie that he would
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: never win otherwise.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: He's like it is like it's like a tie with
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: a little pattern on it. He's like, I don't know,
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know it's.
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: True, But I did feel like his outfit in that
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: scene with the tie was my favorite thing that he won.
• 43:12
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it was a.
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: Really good passion with so she really did well picking
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: that tie.
• 43:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: I was just gonna say, like, in response to you know,
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: you highlighting that the film initially had this other ending,
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: I felt myself watching it this time, especially knowing we
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: were doing the podcast and and trying to pay attention
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: to how they were setting up the characters and the
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: dynamic and the themes. I did feel like the third act
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: felt a little bit more awkward than I remembered, and
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: I perceived it this time wondering if it was partly
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: because it's trying to fit a new ending on something
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: that initially didn't have a happy ending, and so in
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: that third act I felt the corniness a little bit
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: more than before. Of like when he encounters the jewelry
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: box again and you're thinking, oh, he's remembering that moment,
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: you know, on the balcony, and he's just confronted with
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: these little remembrances of her. It all felt a little
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: more ham fisted than I had recalled. But yeah, they
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: got there and they got to that iconic happy ending
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: Andrea mentioned where, you know, there's a lot of moments
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: in this film that I think are beautifully shot, but
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: truly that shot of Julia Roberts with her hair, you know,
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: flowing hair on the fire escape looking down at him
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: beaming is just is just so gorgeous.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: I appreciated on this viewing too just that. I mean,
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: there's always like room for more deep characterization of woman protagonists.
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: But I did like that the movie does go out
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: of its way to say, like, whether she ends up
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: with Edward or not, she's gonna be okay, and that,
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: you know, unlike the original ending of this movie, which
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: sounded really like irritating, was like her and Kit going
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: to Disneyland, staring into the middle distance thinking about how
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: maybe dreams don't come true. You're like, well, that that
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: sucks so much. No one needs to see that, right,
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: it's exhausting. I liked that things don't seem like they're
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: going to work out with Edward, but she has a
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: plan b you know, like she and and it doesn't.
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: At least, I didn't get the feeling that Edward coming
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: back into her life would necessarily disrupt the plans that
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: she had for herself. It didn't see at least. I mean,
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: what I will say of Edward is he cares what
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: she thinks, even if I think his job is quite evil.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: He does care which she thinks and values you know,
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: her perspective on her life and his. So it's like
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: if she wants to go back to school, you do
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: get the feeling that like that's gonna be fine, and
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: she'll go back to school and it'll just maybe look
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: a little bit different.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. For me, the big thing was the fact that
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: she ends up with a client, a wealthy one at that.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: I don't have any problems with that. I have a
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: problem with the way that he treats her along the way,
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: because he's quite I would say, mean, he's always telling her,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: he's like always snapping at her to stop fidgeting and
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: don't sit there, just sit over there instead, Like I
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: don't know, it feels like he's just trying to a
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: big component of her arc is that he's trying to
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: like quote unquote civilize.
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: Her, right, the Pygmalion of it all.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, Like he's introducing her to polite society, and
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: he's teaching her respectability politics, and he's molding her into
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: the person that he wants her to be. Where by
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: the end, it feels like a lot of her maybe
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: not entire identity, but her self expression with the way
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: she dresses and and things like that kind of gets
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: erased because he has molded her into like a polo
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: match watching like s cargo opera lady. But yeah, I'm
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: interested in your takes on that.
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: I mean, they certainly establish him right from his opening
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: scene where he's on the phone breaking up with Jessica.
• 47:29
  Speaker 6: And someone who wants his girlfriend to be at his
• 47:33
  Speaker 6: beck and call.
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, and then there's a reference back to
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: that where Vivian says, oh, you want me to be
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: your beck and call girl. You know, he don't feel
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: like psychologically they're trying to make that association that perhaps
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: he's thinking, oh, you know, I can because I'm seeing
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: a professional and there's money involved, and he does refer
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: to her as his employee. He can and create a
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: scenario where he can have this woman be at his
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: back and call and that can be the nature of
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: their relationship. And I do think, like you said, it
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: produces quite a few uncomfortable sequences as a result of
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: how he treats her, you know. And there's a I
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: found that fight in the pink room of the Penthouse
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: quite emotional to watch, you know, where it builds up
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: to her just about leaving him at that point after
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: he outs her to demon George Costanza, but to Stucky.
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: He outs her to Stucky and you know, she really
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: checks his behavior there and you know, I'm trying to
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: interpret what the thought is behind it, and I would
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: love Andrea's thought too, But yeah, it does feel like
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: they're at least trying to suggest, you know, with her
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: stating again, you know, say I control who, I control
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: the price I control I say you know what and
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: who and how much. She's really asserting her own power,
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: and so it does become a power struggle between them,
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: and he seems to have to have that journey where
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: he realizes that also with this context, she's not really
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: he doesn't have the power that he had wanted, and
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: he has to learn about himself to kind of have
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: their relationship grow in the end. I don't know if
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: it fully achieves what they were going for there, but
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: I think that was sort of an aspect.
• 49:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, my heart sank
• 49:44
  Speaker 5: when he outed her at that.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: The polo match.
• 49:49
  Speaker 5: The polo match, which was such an interesting scene because
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: she was already being poor coded because the other women
• 49:58
  Speaker 5: were identifying her as of you know, Edward's girls or
• 50:02
  Speaker 5: like the flavor of the week. So she's already being
• 50:06
  Speaker 5: stigmatized just by association with Edward. But you know, she's
• 50:11
  Speaker 5: fighting back, you know, she's like, I'm just with him
• 50:13
  Speaker 5: for the sex, you know, and like asserting herself in
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: that type of a situation. But I think, yes, there's
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: this like Pygmalion theme, but fundamentally it's about class drig
• 50:26
  Speaker 5: which is such an important part of being a sex worker,
• 50:30
  Speaker 5: is that you by donning a particular outfit, you can
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: step into the halls of power and go unclocked essentially
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: as a whore. Sure, And I think as a sex
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: worker it's actually a very important skill to have. So
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: when he critiques her for fidgeting, for instance, I don't
• 50:53
  Speaker 5: see it as mean. I actually do see it as
• 50:56
  Speaker 5: an instruction for survival in these environments that actually kind
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: of keeps the boat stafe, okay, because she's not outing
• 51:05
  Speaker 5: herself as someone who like has well, it's you know,
• 51:08
  Speaker 5: she's not outing yourself as poor, right, Like she's not
• 51:11
  Speaker 5: outing herself as a street walker. And the thing is
• 51:14
  Speaker 5: like with sex work, it is truly a profession where
• 51:18
  Speaker 5: you can climb the ranks of class to an extent,
• 51:22
  Speaker 5: not like being out as a sex worker is a
• 51:25
  Speaker 5: different story. But if you're and like, marriage can be
• 51:29
  Speaker 5: a way of subverting class. So I guess I have
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: a different relationship to the way that he instructs her
• 51:39
  Speaker 5: Amelia style. I felt that the way that she dealt
• 51:44
  Speaker 5: with being hurt in that situation felt very real to me,
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: and it hit me pretty hard. I'm pa messing. Maybe
• 51:51
  Speaker 5: that's part of it, but it felt very real. And
• 51:56
  Speaker 5: when you know, Phil comes back and exerts him anger
• 52:01
  Speaker 5: toward Edward against Vivian, Like to me, that was a
• 52:07
  Speaker 5: very like real moment. That's that's part of why men
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: rape women. They're just like angry about other things and
• 52:13
  Speaker 5: they're gonna they see a woman and they want to
• 52:15
  Speaker 5: take what they want and maybe it'll make him feel better,
• 52:18
  Speaker 5: you know, is how he puts it. And the way
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: that Edward reacts to that is important. He has to
• 52:23
  Speaker 5: beat the shit out of his friend and he has.
• 52:25
  Speaker 5: And the other thing too, I clocked in that moment
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: was like, Stucky is also a whore in this situation.
• 52:32
  Speaker 5: He is a paid friend. You think this man is
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: your friend, You've been paying him to be your employee
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: for the last ten years. He's not your friend. He
• 52:40
  Speaker 5: has no loyalty to you. He's ready to rape a
• 52:43
  Speaker 5: woman that you're being so in that way like whoror
• 52:48
  Speaker 5: in the pejorative like metaphorical sense, the way that we
• 52:53
  Speaker 5: use horror as someone who just does anything for money.
• 52:56
  Speaker 5: Well that's what lawyers fucking do. Yeah, So I thought
• 53:02
  Speaker 5: it was interesting that in that moment he he went
• 53:05
  Speaker 5: all in to defend Vivian over this other man he'd
• 53:08
  Speaker 5: been paying for a decade.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Fair, No, thank you for contextualizing that, because I
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: counted like five or six times where he tells her
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: to stop fidgeting, or oh, you look more beautiful when
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: you're not fidgeting, something about her body language. But yeah,
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: recon reframing it as he's helping her, I guess like
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: mask almost or like he's helping her like here's the
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: role that I'm hoping you're able to play during this week,
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: And if you're fidgeting, that implies discomfort and like unfamiliarity
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: with these fancy spaces that I'm taking you to and
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: things like that, so like act natural to fit in.
• 53:59
  Speaker 5: Also, why is she sitting on every surface palpable and
• 54:02
  Speaker 5: not chairs?
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: I do love that. I'm like I don't know about
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: the like class background of the writer or even at
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: some point like who wrote this movie, because the original
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: version was so different, But I was like, maybe it's
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: just someone who's like what a poor people do do?
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: They just sit on stuff that aren't that aren't chairs,
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: Like like.
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: She should be trained, that's like house training.
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: She just about sits into a plate of eggs.
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: It is a lot. Yeah, I guess the piano too.
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: She's just planting. She's planting wherever.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: She sits on the balcony and is like that does
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: genuinely stress me out every time? Same?
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: I want to because I know we're operating on kind
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: of limited time. I wanted to talk about Vivian's friendship
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: with Kit and just how sex work as a community
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: is presented as well. Yeah, was there anything sticking out
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: to you? I mean, like I adore Kit, me too, Yeah, I.
• 55:04
  Speaker 5: Also adore Kit and I you know, yes, we've got
• 55:08
  Speaker 5: some you know, negative stereotypical representation embodied by Kit, you know,
• 55:14
  Speaker 5: as far as being the drug adult sex worker who's
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: spending rent money on drugs and is pretty nonchalant about
• 55:25
  Speaker 5: the fact that one of their friends has been founded
• 55:27
  Speaker 5: in a dumpster.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, almost acting like, well, well because there's this interesting
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: or bizarre thing where Kit is using drugs and like
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: no judgment, but she's casting judgment on other people who
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: are also using drugs. She's calling a bunch of people
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: crackheads and acting like, well, if they end up dead
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: in a dumpster, they kind of had it coming because
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: they're addicted to crack, but that's not us. So well,
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: I wasn't sure what to make of that.
• 56:02
  Speaker 5: You know, everybody's always trying to punch down doesn't matter.
• 56:06
  Speaker 5: And so I noted this because so the sex worker
• 56:10
  Speaker 5: who was found in the dumpster, her name was Skinny Marie,
• 56:13
  Speaker 5: and Kit said that it's sad, it's sad that she died,
• 56:17
  Speaker 5: but she was a flake, she was a crackhead, and
• 56:20
  Speaker 5: there was a pimp that was trying to straighten her out.
• 56:24
  Speaker 5: And you know, if only she'd gone with the pimp,
• 56:26
  Speaker 5: maybe she wouldn't be in the dumpster. But that was stark.
• 56:30
  Speaker 5: It was definitely stark. One thing that I was confused
• 56:33
  Speaker 5: by was the fact that Vivian was so eager and
• 56:39
  Speaker 5: willing to pass money off to Kit, like in that
• 56:44
  Speaker 5: scene where she leaves money with the Philip concierge. I
• 56:48
  Speaker 5: was like, Okay, first of all, how are you trusting
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: this person who's just like left you totally in the lurch.
• 56:55
  Speaker 5: When it comes to your housing and you're going to
• 56:57
  Speaker 5: trust this person with money when you know they've already
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: spent your money on drugs, that doesn't come up again.
• 57:03
  Speaker 5: That's just a kind of like she takes the money,
• 57:05
  Speaker 5: everything's fine type of a situation. But then at the
• 57:09
  Speaker 5: same time, I do think there's something about Vivian's character,
• 57:12
  Speaker 5: but also about a lot of sex workers where so
• 57:16
  Speaker 5: much of our work, whether it's with our coworkers or
• 57:19
  Speaker 5: our clients, relies on trust. You have to trust that
• 57:24
  Speaker 5: the person you're about to have sex with for money
• 57:26
  Speaker 5: is not going to murder you. You have to trust
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: that your friends are loyal, even if they hurt you
• 57:31
  Speaker 5: on occasion. So I think that there is something very
• 57:35
  Speaker 5: human and real about that trust, even if it's misguided,
• 57:40
  Speaker 5: And I think that's sort of Vivian's wholemo.
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was a little throwned by that as well,
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: but it did feel I don't know, like the energy
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: of it was just that they will have each other's
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: back regardless, because I feel like there's a poorly written
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: version of this where you know, like Vivian as like,
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: fuck you guys, I'm I'm like doing the s cargo thing. Now,
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: But I appreciate at the moments that the story kind
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: of goes out of its way to show that like
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: Vivian has no interest in like leaving her community behind
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: just because she is like sort of falling in love
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: with this really rich guy. And also that like she
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: I think the exception of the like women who were
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: huge assholes to her at that boutique, there is class
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: solidarity to service workers throughout in a way that isn't
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: always extended the other way, especially in the beginning of
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: the story. But that there, I don't know, like there
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: it's usually like little performance choices from Julia Roberts, but
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: that it's clear that you know, Vivian is, you know,
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: even though she is doing the Pygmalion thing to mask
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: in these spaces, she's not like becoming a rich asshole
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: doing this one eighty overnight. She she's like always is
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: very thoroughly herself, and there is like community and class
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: solidarity in everything she does.
• 59:08
  Speaker 5: We respect it.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like her character a lot as far as
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: Edward goes. On the other hand, I can't. I still
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: can't totally shake the feeling that Edward could have treated
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: her better in certain cases. Also, it struck me that
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: he was so appalled that she charges one hundred dollars
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: an hour, as if to say, like, well, your labor
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: isn't worth that amount of money. Meanwhile, he's dealing in
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: like billion dollar deals and it's like, how dare you
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: charge one hundred dollars?
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: But that's typical?
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so typical.
• 59:49
  Speaker 5: It is so accurate.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally and also not clear if.
• 59:54
  Speaker 5: He's not if he's being like facetious or not. I
• 59:57
  Speaker 5: like me, there was like a bit of like playful there.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, I could see that because he doesn't.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: Like try to lowball her or like negotiate lower He's
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 5: just like, oh wow, okay, that's a lot. That's more
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 5: than I thought.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, And I do like that scene where they
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: negotiate and like just to see representation on screen of
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: a woman negotiating for herself and like knowing her work.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: And getting what she wants every single time.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then and then the button on that scene
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: is she says I would have done it for two thousand,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: and he's like I would have paid four yeah, and
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: you're like, well, then pay her four thousand dollars.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but that's yeah, that's that's real. And the thing
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 5: too is like I mean I thought it was confusing,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 5: how like, you know, she's charging one hundred for you know,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 5: the hour, and then he's like, how much will it
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 5: be for the night and she says three hundred, Like
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 5: obviously that's a little like question mark. But also if
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 5: you've ever been in a position where you have to
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 5: negotiate your rate, especially on the spot and really quickly,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 5: and you've never had to do something that would cost
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 5: that much money, it takes a lot of bravery and
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 5: courage to be able to name a number and stand.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 6: By it totally, you know.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 5: And then that's where I think that three thousand number
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: comes into play, because even that's a low number for
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 5: an entire week. Yeah, right, But if we put ourselves
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 5: in her position, she's never asked for three thousand dollars
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 5: in her life, and the way that she feels after
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 5: she gets it, like it's just so palpable and so
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 5: like overwhelmingly that that thrill of asking for something and
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 5: getting it and knowing that you're going to be taken
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 5: care of for this period of time, I mean that
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 5: there's that's it's a good feeling.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 4: Plus the value of that new wardrobe on top of it.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: How much what was the obscene amount of money that
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: he spent. I'm very curious to know something.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: I'd be curious what everybody thinks about. Is the way
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: I guess like this is more of like a general
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: realm com thing in general too that you see from
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: the beginning of time through now is that this movie
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: is like critical of class and not like unwilling to
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: engage with class, but is still like it feels like
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: very clear that this was like written in during the
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: raake and administration. I guess where it does feel like
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: the goal is to have as much as possible, and
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: like there's I don't know, I feel like there there
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: is class critique present in this movie, but it's still
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: like the fantasy of it's a consumerist fantasy to some
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: extent that, you know, the way that she's treated all
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: of a sudden becomes okay because now there's a rich
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: guy vouching for her, which resolves things for her on
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: this day. But I don't know, like there's a little
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: bit of movie language there where it's like the goal
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: is to be respected by rich people, when it's like, well,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: you know, there's certainly power and a shift in your
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: life that comes with that. But it I don't know,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: I mean in a way that is like unsurprising for
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: a rom comm It's like a little overlay, simplistic in
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: a way that felt like ooh, or like I felt
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: like there was room in this story without changing the
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: tone or the characters to like be more critical of
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: class and not have the goal be the Pygmalion thing,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: to just like.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: Be assimilation and to rich person culture.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: And all the military destroyers there that's the worst of it.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I agree.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: I think it feels like Jamie you bumping up against
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: the ship yees spelling, you know, again being an issue
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: because I think in Edwards's character development, if you want
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: to say that, it feels like, you know, he doesn't
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: necessarily in the end do something career wise that actually.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 6: Speaks to who he is.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 4: He's actually upholding, you know, the Grandpa's dream. And I
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 4: think they're trying to say that the significance of that
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: is a sort of like symbolic resolution with edwards recently
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 4: deceased dad, who he had this estrangement from, you know,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: so sort of trying to think of that being like
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: some closure for him. But it doesn't really speak to
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 4: who he is or what he might want to do,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 4: Like I would have loved if somehow they made him
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 4: less materialistic in the end. But like you said, with
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 4: the era in which it was produced, you know, this
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: is a film that it's a rom com, and it's
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: going to play into many fantasies, and certainly one of
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 4: the ones that chooses to do is this kind of
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: fantasy of money being available and flowing and upholding that
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: consumeris fantasy.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: I kind of felt the same way about vis by
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: the end, in the sense that we can imagine that
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: she'll no longer be like, you know, working the streets
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: now that she's partnered with with Edward now, But is
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: there any hobby or passion or creative endeavor or anything
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: like that that she does want to pursue now that
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: she has the freedom to do so, But we don't
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: really get a sense of of what she likes to do.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: Does she say something and I feel like there was
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: a room for that when.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 5: She's in bed with Edward, Does she say something about
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 5: what I thought she was a gearhead or something? Am
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 5: I making that?
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: Okay, we do learn that, yes, she which is a
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: Julia Roberts thing. This is like the third Julia Roberts
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: movie we've covered where she's like, I know how to
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: fix cars and you're like, okay, that is like that
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: was the nineties dog whistle for I'm not like other
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: girls she does how to fix car.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: I would have loved it if she was like a
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: grease monkey mechanic. I mean, yeah, it had their own
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: garage or something.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: But if she becomes like Jay Leno with just like
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: an enormous garage full of like fifty cars and she's
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: like restoring classic cars or whatever, that would have been nice.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: If there was room for that. I think that we
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: could have known more about that.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 5: But there's room for a sequel. There's a whole world
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 5: where maybe Edward becomes anti capitalist and renounces.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: His way an extremely pretty woman.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: Honestly, the way that they just keep legacy sequeling every
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: movie from like the nineties and early two thousands, I
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: would not be surprised if we see Pretty Woman do
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: at some point.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: It also does make me ask the question, though, could
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 4: it be made today?
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 6: And could it be made today by Disney again?
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: Like it had me reflecting again watching this. You know, Wow,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 4: this was a very specific point in time where this
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 4: film was able to be made and cast America's Sweetheart
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 4: in the title role. And I also think do so
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 4: with this kind of these winks that were so fun,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 4: like having Richard Gear having been Paul Schrader's American Jiglow.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 4: You know, awareness of that in watching this film gives
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 4: it a wink in that casting that I think is
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 4: so fun and clever. And yeah, I don't know that
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 4: I would see Disney doing this again, but obviously it
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: was a point in time where it hit and it
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 4: made all of that money you detailed about, you know,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 4: and yeah, it is really interesting to reflect on that.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: Does anyone have any final thoughts about the film?
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 5: I mean, I just I don't know, if you know,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 5: every sex worker film, every film that touches on sex
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 5: work needs to be realistic, especially if there's a happy ending.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 5: That's my controversial opinion. You know what, let her have
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 5: her happy ending. I don't mind. I don't. I kind
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 5: of love to see a sex worker happy in the end,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 5: and I love to see audiences cheer for a sex
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 5: worker and be charmed by a sex worker. I think
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 5: it's like actually really feel good, and maybe we need
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 5: more of that totally.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, because you can criticize the trope of a
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: sex worker needing to be quote unquote rescued from their job,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: because that certainly is a pervasive trope, and you could
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: easily argue that the movie perpetuates that. But also to
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: your point, sex workers, of course deserve a happy ending.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: And to be like centered in yeah the movie, as
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: a full person, or at least as full a person
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: as you could be in a movie in nineteen ninety.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And there is a trope that she's that character
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 5: engages in, and that's the hooker with the heart of gold,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 5: and that like's she's a hook that doesn't do drugs
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 5: and she's not like the other hookers. But at the
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 5: same time, I don't know, I guess I kind of
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 5: shrug because I still love to see it. I still
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 5: love to see a loved sex worker. I think sex
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 5: worker should be loved, and the way that she gets
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 5: her come up.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 7: I'm just like, go Vivian, you go girl. Yeah, And
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 7: I think you know she as much as you know.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 7: They're both our protagonists. I think that the audience is
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 7: absolutely to me relating the most to the Vivian character.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 7: For sure, you know, there are a few things more
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 7: satisfying cinematically than that big mistake, huge moment where I
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 7: think we're all so invested in that triumph for her
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 7: and it's so palpable, and I think especially that's why
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 7: I think that that first movement of the film, as
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 7: we see her come into her own and have those wins,
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 7: is so wonderful and satisfying, and just the image of her,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 7: it feels like, sure, there's the class drag and there's
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 7: the Pygmalion molding of her, but I'd like to think
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 7: the positive spin could be like her coming into herself
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 7: in some way, or her expression because you know, as
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 7: she's walking down the street in the Pretty Woman.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 6: Song plays, it's just such a beautiful moment.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 5: It really is.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: I know, like we talk, We've talked on so many
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: episodes about the trope of a rom com has to
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: have a shopping montage or a makeover montage, but some
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: of them are really fun and I like this one,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: so I'm not mad about it.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 4: We're allowed to have fun.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 5: And also I'm remembering that scene where Kit visits her
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 5: at the hotel, where Vivian is thinking about breaking things
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 5: off with Edward and Kit's like, are you not out
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 5: of your mind? Like are you what the hell are
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 5: you do not fumble this bag? Yeah, and that's real.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: I also love the every opportunity they get, Kit and
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: Vivian mock the rich people who are clearly looking down
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: on them. Yeah, it's great.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: It's like in just like the little exchange. I just
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: like the chemistry between those two actors is so good too.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: You just like, I don't know, they're so good, but
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: that little moment on that in that same scene with
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: Kit where she's like whatever, poking at Vivian being like, wow,
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: you clean up nice, easy to clean up when you've
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: got a lot of money, and she's like yeah, And
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: like they're they're even though, like I think there's like
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: room to criticize it based on like the way that
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: class is presented in terms of like what is the goal.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: I like that they're all like everyone knows what's happening,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: Like no one's being naive about it, especially in those moments.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: I like, honestly, one of my only things and a
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: bigger thing for me. The first time I saw the
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: movie is I wish Kit came back sooner. I just
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: I think, just I love their friendship so much, and
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 3: so much of the movie takes place strictly in the
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: higher on the west side of la and not downtown.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: That like, Vivian's community disappears for so long, and Kit
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: comes back, like really towards the very end. I wish
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: she'd like come back a little bit sooner.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: But they should it down the shopping montage together, right.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 5: Right, true, that would have been iconic.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: And then she could have used some of that obscene
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: amount of money to buy her friend some clothes.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 5: But then, you know, going to the end again, there's
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 5: that moment of wealthy distribution where Vivian hands over some
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 5: extra cash to Kit and calls it the Edward Scholarship Fund, right, you.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: Know, it's really cool, So I like tear up.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I love that moment, and I think that's that's
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 5: actually so accurate to what sex workers do as far
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 5: as mutual aid is concerned. We take client money and
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 5: we pump it back into the community.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: Love that.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 5: I love that great.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 3: Movie and that we hear like Kit, it's a it's
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: a little exchange. But like she's she's bringing another sex
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: worker who I forget if we like learn her name,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 3: But another sex worker is going to be taking Vivian's
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: place in the apartment. Kid's like, oh yeah, I've got
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: this much like you have to pay a little extra
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: rent because I'm going to be like she's going to
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: continue to be a sex worker, but she's also going
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: to go to beauty school. You like sort of get
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: an idea of like where her life is going now.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: And also, I mean it's a tiny thing, but nineteen
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: ninety the bars in hell, the fact that you know,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 3: Vivian is leaving sex work, Kit is staying, and there
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: isn't like a value judgment placed on that in the
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: way that I think a lesser movie might have tried
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: to like present this as an undesirable fate or whatever.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: But it's like I don't think that the movie, and
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 3: certainly not Vivian judges Kit at. I mean really at
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: any time, Like they're just so, they're just girls I love.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, there's no like envy or anger or like
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 5: you're leaving me behind. It's like Vivian's getting retired. Yeah,
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 5: the retirement is the dream for all the rest of
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 5: their life, for all of them.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, I want to be respectful of your time. Does
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: this movie pass the Bechdel test. Yes, it does. Mostly
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: between Vivian and Kit. They do talk about Edward and
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: this guy named Carlos as well, but they also talk
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: about their work. They talk about the specific terms that
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: they've set for their work. The we say who we
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: say when we say how much I love that? So yeah,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: it's I think passing quite handily as far as the
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: Bechdel cast nipple scale, though, where we rate the movie
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: on a scale of zero to five nipples based on
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. Before we started recording,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: I was gonna give this a much lower rating than
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: I'm going to now. This conversation really helped because again
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: I was operating on like, he's kind of cruel to
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: her and he becomes a war criminal at the end,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: and I mean, he ta be fair.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 3: He does, he does do that, he does.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: But some of those things have been listen, no client,
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: no clients, that's true. Some of these things have been
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: recontextualized for me. So thanks to the both of you
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: for helping me on my journey, helping me on this
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: character arc of mine. It's so important that this movie
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: humanizes sex workers in a way that, again, most movies
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: do not It gives Vivian humanity, It gives her a
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: point of view, It gives her a character, which, again
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: so many movies struggle tore.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 5: It gives her her character is sitting on everything.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: She's sitting on everything, and she's funny, like she's got
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: a sense of humor. I love it when a woman
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: is allowed to be funny and think things are funny,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: because that's also so rare to see, especially in movies
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: of this era. I love that she gets a happy
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: fairy tale ending, even if it does fall into some
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: trope territory. I still am not a fan of Edward
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: and his obsession with capitalism and the military industrial complex. Also,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: I feel like the Phil Stucky character is there and
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: being as bad as he is to make Edward look
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: not as bad. Also, it's very it's a very white movie.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: So I'm gonna go three nipples.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 5: Woo.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna give it one point five at
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: the at the top of the episode, but I've been swayed,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: so yeah, three nipples, and I'll give them two Vivian
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: and her friends.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 3: Yay, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna get two and a half.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 3: I don't like Edward. I don't like him. I'm happy
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 3: for her. I think he's so boring, and you know,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 3: the naval destroyers. I'm just like, sure, could we have
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: left at But that seems to be like what had
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 3: to happen in every rom com. It's not particular to this,
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 3: It's just a character I can never get on board with.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 3: But in any case, I love, love, love Vivian. I
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: love how this movie. I mean, speaking to what you've
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: been saying the whole episode, Andrea, that this is a
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 3: fantasy that centers a sex worker very lovingly, And how
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 3: many movies, especially movies with this level of like impact
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: and cultural importance, can we say that for Yeah, there's plenty,
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 3: plenty of criticisms to be said about it, but I
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: think that it is like a net good movie. I
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: enjoy watching it. I love the friendship with Vivian and Kit.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 3: So I'll go two and a half. I'll split the
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 3: difference and to give one Vivian one a Kit and
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: then one half too. We didn't have time to talk
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 3: about her, but I always want to acknowledge when there's
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: body doubles in a movie, because I feel like it's
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 3: labored that is very often made invisible Shelley Michelle, great name.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 3: First of all, played Julia Roberts's body double in some
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 3: of the intimate scenes in this movie and some of
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 3: the close up body shots that Shelley Michelle as is
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 3: the poster. The body on the poster Julia roberts head
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 3: is photoshopped on. That is in fact Shelley Michelle. So
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 3: shout out to Shelly Michelle. At her career peak, her
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 3: legs were insured for a million dollars, which is so aspirational.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 3: I don't even know how that would work. Wow, But
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 3: I love that for her. I enjoyed learning about her.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 3: My last half nipple goes to her shoded Shelley.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's wild. I did not know that.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 6: That's right now.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 4: I had heard that that she had a body double
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 4: on the poster, and I wondered at watching it because
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 4: there's that opening scene where you know she's shutting off
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 4: her alarm clock and her face has the pillow over it,
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 4: So I wondered, is.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 6: That a body devil?
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 3: It probably is. Yeah, Well, I think from what I
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: was able to gather, most of the like more intimate
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 3: scenes where you can't see Julia Robert's face is Shelley
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 3: Michelle Coold makes sense.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: How about the two of you for the nipple.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 5: Scale, I guess I would give it four and half nipples. Obviously.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 5: You know, we could do without the sex worker dead
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 5: in the dumpster. She could do without pimps. We could
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 5: do I mean, if you're gonna have a pimp, let's
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 5: have some justice. We could do without the warmongering love interest,
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 5: you know. But all in all, you know, it's funny
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 5: because with Edward it didn't even like his occupation didn't
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 5: even register to me, Like I wasn't even really paying
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 5: attention to Edward. But I think you're both very right
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 5: to draw attention to the fact that he is, like
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 5: he's got an evil job, and that's sort of glossed
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 5: over as just like men in a boardroom. Yeah yeah,
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 5: But at the same time, as a sex worker, we
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 5: have to suspend our judgment for the menu peas all
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 5: the time. So I think I literally am just conditioned
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 5: to do that.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 5: That says more about me than anything else.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 3: Well, we're conditioned to hyper fixate on it because we've
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 3: been We've covered a trillion rom cops.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah right, But I love I love Vivian so much.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 5: I love our little hooker lucial Ball, and I feel
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 5: better off having rewatched that this weekend.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: Amazing, Nicole, how about you?
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so, oh, I guess. So we are doing half nipples.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 3: That's a lot. Yeah, yeah, don't think about it too hard.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: We're grotesque over here.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, Yeah, I think I'm in the three point
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 4: five nipples, and I agree. I love Vivian, and I
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 4: love all the fun that's had along the way while
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 4: still balancing some heavier moments in the film. And I
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 4: think I do feel emotionally connected to Vivian along the way,
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 4: and I felt that really strongly this time. And I
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 4: just want to say a shout out to Gary Marshall's
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 4: direction because I love all of the well choreographed, detailed
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 4: comedy that he brought to the story. And yeah, creating
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 4: that Vivian being like a lucial Ball type, a new
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 4: type of lucille Ball heroine, I agree that that's just
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 4: so wonderful. And yeah, I think as a result, it
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 4: just brings me back to what Andrey and I want
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 4: to do with our film, which is, you know, I
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 4: think of Andrea as a kind of Lucilla ball type. Yeah,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 4: totally has that type of infectious you know, charisma and
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 4: her little Jim Carrey rubber face throughout the film as well,
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 4: and I think she's got people laughing and feeling and
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 4: endearing and charmed and yeah, very nippleworthy. Absolutely, Thanks Nicole
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 4: any time.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: And speaking of the doc, tell us where people can
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: find it and watch it and follow you on any
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: social media or check out any other work you'd like
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: to plug. Yeah.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 4: So Modern Horror is going to be available to buy
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 4: and rent on digital starting May first, so please do
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 4: check it out please. And for myself, I'm on Instagram
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 4: as Nico design Nice.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 5: And you can find me on Instagram at wiener Woman
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 5: w e r Woman.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: Perfect handle, perfect handle, no notes, no notes. Thank you
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 3: so much for enjoining us, and huge, huge congratulations.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 5: Thank you. This was so much fun.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 6: Now, this is awesome.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 3: Come back anytime, truly, yes, come back to talk about
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 3: any movie you want. Let's do American Jigglo next. I
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 3: want to kind of watch it.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 6: It's really good.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: Hell yeah, I can't wait. In the meantime, you can
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: follow us on Instagram at Bechtelcast and you can subscribe
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: to our Patreon aka Matreon. It's the best way to
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: support the show. You get two bonus episodes every single month,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: plus access to the back catalog, and it's only for
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: five dollars a month. That's so much cheaper than one
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: hundred dollars an hour.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: Wow, no comment, all right? You can also follow us
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 3: on Instagram, is the easiest way to keep up on
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 3: what's going on with the show. You know, expect some
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 3: tour announcements later in the year for our ten year anniversary.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: And in the meantime, let's get in our limo and
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 3: go into our happy ending. We The Bechdel Cast is
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 3: a production of iHeartMedia, hosted and produced by Me, Jamie Loftus.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: And Me Caitlyn Dorante. The podcast is also produced by
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: Sophie Lichtermann.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 3: And edited by Caitlyn Durrante. Ever heard of Them? That's Me?
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: And our logo and merch and all of our artwork
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: in fact are designed by Jamie Loftus, Ever heard of her?
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 3: Oh My God? And our theme song, by the way,
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 3: was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 3: Iconic and a special thanks to the one and only
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 3: Aristotle Acevedo.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree Slash
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: Bechdel Cast