Latest / Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love / Josie Harris-Walton | Do You Need a Tax Attorney for Your Business?

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Josie Harris-Walton | Do You Need a Tax Attorney for Your Business? · Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love

0:02
Davina Frederick: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the wealthy
0:04
woman lawyer podcast. I'm your host, Davina Frederick. And I am
0:07
so happy to have you here today. And I'm super happy to have a
0:11
friend of mine and guests that I'm going to introduce you to in
0:14
a moment. Her name is Josie Harris Walton, and she's the
0:18
owner and manager of the Walton firm, where she manages the law
0:23
firms corporate and Tax Division. The Walton firm is an
0:26
Atlanta based law firm with a highly specialized tax and
0:30
corporate law attorneys who handle cases regarding tax
0:34
controversy, tax litigation, tax resolution disputes against the
0:38
Internal Revenue Service and Georgia Department of Revenue.
0:41
And corporate law needs strategically, thoroughly and
0:46
worry free. I can't imagine a tax attorney that can guarantee
0:50
worry free, but you probably help your clients get there as
0:53
close as they can get right. Yes, definitely. So Josie, I'm
0:57
so happy to have you here today. Welcome.
1:00
Unknown: Thank you. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. Thank
1:02
you so much.
1:03
Davina Frederick: So why don't you I give a brief introduction
1:06
of your firm, I wanted everybody to get a sense of your practice
1:09
area, you are a real unicorn. In your industry, aren't you? You
1:16
are a black woman, who is a I mean, already, statistically,
1:21
there are not enough black women who are practicing law, but to
1:26
be a tax attorney really put you in an area where there probably
1:29
very few black women. So tell me, tell me, tell me about that.
1:36
Unknown: So I mean, I you know, I wanted to be an attorney, even
1:41
a tax attorney when I was seven years old, well, attorney, but
1:44
like me, and my mom was a she's an accountant. I tell everybody,
1:47
she says she's, she's the protector professional. So I've
1:50
always been around taxes and things of that nature. So I
1:53
didn't really know what I want. I don't want to do corporate.
1:56
And I, I I joined a federal income tax class, and I've been
2:00
hooked ever since I still do corporate work as well. But tax
2:03
is my baby. So I love it. I enjoy it. And people are like,
2:07
are you serious? I'm like, Yes, I literally enjoy going through
2:10
the code, and kind of figuring out what's going to happen with
2:13
the case. And so it's really, I you know, I know a lot of tax
2:18
black tax attorneys, right, I have a group of Atlanta, black
2:21
Texas, Association of Black tax attorneys, right. And it's about
2:26
10 of us in that group. But nobody knows. Nobody knows about
2:32
it. So it's like everyone's like, Oh, my God, you the first
2:34
black tax attorney I've met really, I'm like, really? I know
2:37
a lot of them. And I have two friends who as one was in
2:39
Florida, and and one is an Alabama so yeah, yeah, a couple
2:43
of them. But a lot of people don't. So yeah,
2:45
Davina Frederick: I think statistically, it's rare, like
2:47
so, you know, but certainly it makes a lot of sense for you to
2:51
know a lot of other a lot of other people who are doing what
2:54
you're doing, and especially other people of color and women
2:57
of color. But I think you're also rare among attorneys
3:01
because of your love for taxes. I would say that most attorneys
3:06
I meet speak with they're like taxes, oh, my goodness, oh my
3:09
god, it's wonderful to have people like you love taxes,
3:13
because the rest of us need people like you to help us
3:16
because if you're a business owner, you're going to be
3:18
dealing with tax issues. And it's very, it's one of the most
3:22
of it's one thing that I see crop up again, and again, and
3:26
again, with small business owners, the how they're trying
3:31
to figure out how to be a business owner. And they forget
3:35
about taxes, and they're not really sure how to how to
3:41
navigate that it feels so scary. So tell me what, tell me what is
3:47
like working with your clients and kind of how you serve your
3:49
clients, Who's your ideal client? How do you serve them?
3:52
And how do you help them sort of get through a tax problem?
3:57
worryfree? Well,
3:59
Unknown: my ideal client right now, which has shifted is tax
4:02
professional. So because of course I love tax person,
4:05
because my mom was a tax professional, that I've moved
4:08
kind of into the tax professional realm where I see
4:12
that, you know, it was about maybe five or six years ago, I
4:17
started getting tax professionals when it came to
4:19
due diligence, because of course, you know, with the IRS
4:21
tax professionals have a due diligence they have they have to
4:24
maintain regarding if they're filing certain, you know, tax
4:27
returns, and so and getting certain declines or getting
4:30
certain credits. So I kind of skimmed into that start learning
4:35
it and actually love the due diligence process of them. And
4:38
then also I just love tax professionals anyway, and so
4:41
they became my clients. So pretty much an ideal client is a
4:44
tax professional. On one spectrum, our tax professional
4:48
who you know, may want to understand the due diligence
4:51
process that doesn't understand and stay in compliance. That's
4:55
the main thing standard compliance with the IRS rules of
4:58
what they supposed to do on a tax return. And so that's kind
5:01
of the ideal client that I've kind of skimmed towards a little
5:04
bit. But if I'm going back to my business owners, it's mostly
5:08
small business, almost probably between one and 5 million, who
5:13
may have a tax issue where they disagree with the IRS, they went
5:17
to an audit or they get, you know, a payroll issue. You have
5:21
no idea how many small businesses don't have any idea
5:23
that they supposed to actually file Georgia Department or law,
5:25
labor, payroll and payroll taxes, they have no idea. And so
5:29
I say, you didn't know that. It's like, no, nobody ever told
5:32
me I supposed to file this. And so, you know, working with them,
5:35
and others to help them understand those type of things,
5:38
is like my ideal client. I just, I love it. And also, I love the
5:41
the gating. So if it's a litigation issue, I want to be
5:44
involved. Up to so I'm big on that as well. I've gotten I
5:50
know, right? litigate, and I have a criminal attorney who was
5:55
awesome. We partnered together because of course, it's a it's
5:59
the financial part of the PPP. And then it's the criminal part
6:02
of PPP. And so if they get in trouble, we both work together
6:05
and try to help them as much as possible. Wow.
6:10
Davina Frederick: I, I, you, you're talking about tax
6:15
professionals, I find that so interesting, because I think a
6:18
lot of business owners probably think well, I've got my CPA,
6:22
there's my tax professional, and I don't need a tax attorney and
6:27
a CPA. How, how common is it for CPAs to sort of seek out tax
6:33
attorneys is probably happens much more than, you know, people
6:37
who business owners think that that CPAs and other tax
6:41
professionals, have those relationships with tax
6:44
attorneys. Tell us about that.
6:45
Unknown: So yeah, so I mean, I, because I do have a lot of CPAs
6:50
and tax professional as my clients on tax taxpayers as
6:53
clients, they, they, you know, they have, like I said, they
6:57
have due diligence issues, or not even that they really not
7:00
sure what the law is on there. And they're saying, Josie, can
7:02
you look at this correspondence from the IRS? Can you help me
7:05
decipher? What's the issue? What, you know, what I need to
7:08
tell my client to do? You know, or even that just even being
7:12
able to say, Hey, I can't litigate? Because I don't you
7:15
know, that's not what I do. I want to send it off to a tax
7:19
attorney, I don't know any tax attorneys. So that's kind of
7:22
where I've came in at what I'm saying, Okay, I am the middle
7:26
person between all of this, let me be that person on the middle
7:29
person? Well, we call ourselves as a scale because you know, we
7:32
use a scale. So we're the balance between the tax
7:33
professional and the IRS, because we balance them and tell
7:37
them, hey, you should be good client should be doing this, or
7:39
you should be doing that. So that's kind of the difference.
7:41
And that's how my clients look at me as in as a nother eye.
7:46
Because, of course, they know how to they know how to prepare
7:49
return, but defending a return or defending either defending an
7:53
issue, that's something they come to a tax attorney for.
7:57
Davina Frederick: Right? Right. And, and the laws, you know,
8:02
it's already complicated enough for lay people. And then you
8:05
have people who work in that area, even, you know, every time
8:08
I go see my accountant every year, there's always changes in
8:11
the law. And it really affects what we do and what we're not
8:15
doing, you know, and so I think, you know, having that person
8:20
there that can answer those legal questions for you, so that
8:24
you can keep up so you can keep up on things and you can double
8:26
check yourself before you tell the client something. Yeah, it's
8:30
a wonderful idea. Dan, you actually have you started a new
8:33
business, just helping other tax professionals, those tax
8:38
preparers. And it is like a a hotline or a concierge service
8:45
where you help them it's a subscription based service, why
8:48
don't you tell us a little bit about that kind of how that idea
8:50
came to you.
8:51
Unknown: So because I represent so many tax professionals and
8:54
I've seen that you know, all I'm saying you know what, Josie if I
8:57
just had to you and if I knew this prior to going to the
9:00
island prior to my client getting this island or
9:04
correspondence or whatever, and having to go through all this
9:07
process, I would have I would have been good I would have I
9:10
just had to know the law and knowing what I needed to do on
9:12
this issue. And so since I since I have that so much I say you
9:16
know what, what about if I do like a because this is something
9:21
I work for h&r block and I work for legal shield, which is you
9:24
know, legal shows institution based program, I work for one of
9:27
the law firms, and I work for HR HR block has exactly that. So if
9:31
they have a franchisee, or someone franchisor, who goes in
9:36
and does the tax returns, they have questions, they have a back
9:39
office to hammer that and I did I was one of the people who did
9:42
that. And then I also licorice. I was like, Oh, this would be so
9:45
good for tax professionals. So I call it tax pros cons there. So
9:49
it's a concierge service where you can call a tax attorney and
9:54
ask a question about either you or your client or anything that
9:57
you have a question about regarding benefits. As
10:00
professional, even corporate, I've included corporate in there
10:02
because a lot of people want to know about their corporations
10:06
because they are small business owners as well. So they want to
10:09
know about their, you know what they need to trademark and as
10:12
well I've added that in there as well. So I'm building a built a
10:16
team of different tax professionals and corporate
10:19
corporate attorneys all around the world, I'm building that
10:22
team, where they're going to be able to help me with it all you
10:25
got to do you can text chat, message, a phone, you need to
10:30
debate get your question answered. And you can upload
10:32
correspondence and we will review them for you. And it's a
10:35
subscription basis amongst us and based on. So I call it
10:39
concierge service because of hotel. So I named it. It's
10:43
called the The penthouse, which is the higher which is 497 a
10:46
month. And then I have the executive suite, which is 297 a
10:50
month, and you have the standard 497 a month for somebody who may
10:54
just be starting now, but they need that service but cannot
10:56
afford to be in a penthouse, they can actually see us being a
10:59
standard and still get the same level of service. So that kind
11:02
of is going to work out. Yeah. So it's became people are
11:05
actually waiting. It starts November 1.
11:08
Davina Frederick: And that's exciting. Yes. That is super,
11:12
super exciting. I'm happy for you. So do you have do you have
11:15
your website up yet? Can we include that link in the show
11:17
notes?
11:18
Unknown: Yeah, it's on the it's the what the Walton farm if you
11:20
go on there, it's just a service under me. So I've decided to
11:23
service under me under the Walton farm because we still
11:25
want to keep it illegal. Because we that's what we do. I keep it
11:28
on there. So yeah, it'll be you can find out about the services,
11:31
just go into the Walton firm.com and go on and tax postcards
11:34
here. And they'll tell you a little bit about our service and
11:37
about us.
11:38
Davina Frederick: Excellent, excellent. I'm excited. So
11:40
let's, I'm excited for you. I think that's fantastic. So let's
11:44
talk about your law firm and your law firm team. You have six
11:49
people working with you now. About six. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And
11:53
you are all all black woman team. Yeah. Right. So to further
11:59
your unicorn status of loving taxes, loving to litigate about
12:03
taxes. Being a black woman tax attorney, you also have an all
12:08
woman law firm, which I absolutely love to see. Because,
12:12
you know, I'm a champion for women, law firm owners. So I
12:15
love to see that.
12:16
Unknown: Yeah, it didn't have it. I didn't try to make it
12:19
happen that way. It's just that I know so many amazing black
12:23
women who do so many different things. And then with tax pros
12:26
consigliere is it happened the same way, because I did want a
12:30
meal on the Concierge Team, right, but ended up I have three
12:35
attorneys on that team, which is one tax, one corporate, and then
12:40
one is corporate and tax and my division here. And then of
12:43
course, we're looking out for other tax professionals as well.
12:46
But if it happened like that, so now I'm adding those additional
12:50
three women to that to that team as well. So yeah, it's but I
12:54
don't try to I don't really try to do that. It just happens
12:56
either, because I know so many amazing black women that I love.
13:00
And so I like to really give to my community and help out. And
13:03
that's kind of where it kind of happened.
13:06
Davina Frederick: Yeah, so it sounds like you are highly
13:08
attractive and attracting really great attorneys to work with
13:12
you. So that's wonderful. Your talent. Tell us about you
13:15
started your law firm in 2020. But before that, give us kind of
13:21
your journey to sort of we know that you always wanted to be a
13:24
tax attorney since you were a little kid, which is what little
13:28
kid I want to be a ballerina a baseball player or a tax
13:31
attorney.
13:34
Unknown: Yeah, yeah. Cuz I was working with my mom. And she was
13:38
preparing returns because she's an accountant. She was preparing
13:40
returns. And he's always helped. So I thought I was like, Oh, I
13:43
just want to do that. And not really know exactly what it was
13:46
that I thought it was corporate, I always thought it was, you
13:48
know, being a corporate attorney. I was like, Oh, I'm
13:50
going to work for Coca Cola. I'm going to do this, this this. And
13:53
it just didn't happen that way happened where I actually
13:55
started my own firm. But prior to that, of course, I worked
13:59
with dimming Parker, which is a well let's go back. So I have of
14:05
course, a law degree from Carmel and then I went I decided that I
14:09
was gonna want to get taxed more. So I decided, okay, you
14:11
know what, I'm going to, to get my LLM in taxation at DePaul. So
14:17
once upon Chicago, and then I work for a nonprofit, I'm just
14:22
kind of just wanting to understand taxes and a lot of
14:25
people don't do that anymore. But I worked for free for almost
14:28
a year with this nonprofit helping them out with they had
14:31
the IRS issues with different clients and things like that.
14:34
Then I went to Demi Parker which is they are a legal shields
14:40
their corporate clients so I worked there did corporate work
14:43
for them and they came back to them and then I built their kind
14:46
of built their tax division. And then after I found that I wasn't
14:49
going to, you know, probably that was gonna make partner
14:53
that's what I wanted. That's all I've ever wanted was to make
14:56
partner I've always wanted to be no matter where I went. I always
14:58
wanted to be a partner because I like Being able to make
15:01
decisions. And so in 2020, I decided that I was going to open
15:06
up my firm, I opened up doing COVID, which is weird. I've
15:12
already had the firm anyway, but I wasn't doing anything in it.
15:15
And I decided I was like, I'm going full throttle. I'm going
15:18
to actually open me 2020 That's exactly what I do. I'm a full
15:21
service as a Watson firm. Yes.
15:24
Davina Frederick: Yes. Wonderful. Wonderful. And so
15:27
tell us about kind of your growth journey since then. Did
15:30
you hire people immediately? Or were you kind of on your bike by
15:33
yourself for a while a true solo.
15:35
Unknown: I was a true solo for almost a year. A true solo
15:40
almost, yeah, almost a year, maybe even longer than that. I
15:43
just actually hired I hired my paralegal, which I took I stole
15:51
her from Demi.
15:55
Davina Frederick: You recruited I
15:56
Unknown: had I that's what they did. They say I stole it from
16:00
from them. But her. I didn't know she was looking, I
16:03
recruited her from Demi. She was already she used to be my
16:06
assistant there. I recruited her, then I hired as an
16:10
assistant for us. And then I went on to hire an auditor,
16:15
which you know, on a contract basis, and then just kind of
16:18
doing people contract as well, and then went on from there, and
16:22
just kind of start hiring people. And I'm actually looking
16:25
for the system now. But I because because it's getting too
16:29
much for all of us now. But it's crazy. But it's Yeah, so I
16:33
didn't start off like that. I started off doing everything
16:35
myself. And that's why I know how to do everything myself.
16:39
Right? No, anything happens. I know how to go back and do
16:41
everything myself. Yeah,
16:42
Davina Frederick: right. Right. And you so you've grown very
16:45
quickly, because 2020 We're only in 2022. So you've grown pretty
16:49
quickly. And what do you think have been some of the challenges
16:56
that the biggest challenge you have in sort of growing your
16:58
firm?
16:59
Unknown: I think the biggest challenge for me is giving up
17:03
the everything. I am a hands on person. I'm type A and I so I
17:12
want to be able to be in everything. And giving it up and
17:16
letting somebody else pauma. All of that has been hard. For me.
17:19
That's been one of the hardest things for me because I still
17:21
want to be able to go in because, you know, my paralegal
17:25
now she says Josie, you don't need to answer your phones. You
17:29
don't need to answer your calls. You don't need to, you need to
17:31
make sure you tell clients to go back to your staff who's Hi, she
17:35
she's on me all the time about that, but and I nurture my
17:39
clients very well I'm I'm really all into my, they say they say I
17:43
babied them and I feel like I nurture them. I nurture them. So
17:46
I want to be in everything that when they when they call I want
17:48
to answer. And right now it's not happening because I'm
17:52
traveling a lot right now. And you know, we're doing the tax
17:56
professional thing. So it's been hard, but that's the hardest
17:59
thing for me is giving up all that stuff and delegating, I
18:03
don't know how to delegate. And that's been the hardest thing
18:06
for me is delegating even if I have a team that I'm paying, I
18:08
still don't know how to delegate the work to them, which is
18:10
Davina Frederick: you need to grab I just sent an email out
18:13
today. It's going out in about four minutes. So look, you're on
18:17
my list and grab that because you and I are on the same
18:19
wavelength today because I just shared it I have a brand new
18:23
kind of cheat sheet that I've created. It's called delegation
18:27
secrets for women law firm owners who do too much you're
18:31
gonna get that today when you go check your email. So I must be I
18:35
must be read your mind today. That but i do i mean that's the
18:40
big challenge for a lot of women law firm owners and I once had a
18:43
coach told me and I have told this to people many many times
18:46
since he says Davina, you can control all the details you
18:49
certainly that is your choice. If you want to do it, you can
18:52
control the details, he says or you can have growth, but you
18:55
cannot have them both. You cannot control all the details
18:58
and grow the same time. And I thought that was so powerful. I
19:02
was like okay, I get it now I get it.
19:05
Unknown: No, I can you believe I still handle all my payroll?
19:09
Davina Frederick: No, I can't believe that.
19:12
Unknown: I can't give it up and and today somebody call me up
19:15
after all, like, Oh, my God, I don't want to deal with payroll
19:17
right now. And I was like, then, you know, of course somebody
19:20
says in my head. You should already been to give that up a
19:23
long time ago. But I just haven't I haven't given
19:26
Davina Frederick: it yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we definitely have
19:29
to get you delegating more but less so you forget you
19:32
delegating more think of the amount of mental emotional space
19:36
you'll have for these big ideas that you have. And and growing
19:40
that so we'll get to that. But, uh, tell me what do you think is
19:44
like one of the vital sort of lessons that you've learned so
19:49
far along the way for those women law firm owners who are
19:51
kind of coming up behind you. Let them learn from our mistakes
19:55
as I say So is there some vital kind of gold nugget you can
19:59
share that you do? We would again do it differently or
20:02
anything like that yet.
20:04
Unknown: I think, you know, honestly, I really think that I
20:07
probably mind I went and went in by myself, I would have, I would
20:11
have, because I didn't. And I guess that I didn't talk about
20:14
that part. But I did have a in 2016, I opened up a firm with a
20:19
another friend. And she decided she didn't want to practice law
20:22
anymore. And I don't want to practice by myself. So I went
20:23
back to work. And I wouldn't have did that I would have
20:26
stayed in 2016, I should have stayed the course, and then
20:29
maybe brought in another partner. And I think that's one
20:32
of the things I probably wouldn't do about myself. If I
20:34
could go back and do this all over again, I wouldn't have done
20:37
it, you know, I wouldn't did it by myself, I wildly would have
20:39
found them associate brought that person in and then move
20:42
them up the ranks of being partner, because I've never
20:45
wanted to really do it by myself. It just happened like
20:47
that. But that's kind of one of the nuggets, because I you know,
20:50
my whole thing is Josie, you can't do it all. The tribe can't
20:55
do it all. And that's one of the things that has been keeping me
20:58
up all times at night is doing stuff by myself.
21:02
Davina Frederick: Yeah, I've been telling, I've been telling
21:03
people, you can have it all, but you cannot do it all. You can
21:07
have it all, but you can't do it on I think I think women high
21:11
achieving women often conflate the two, we think if I'm going
21:16
to have it all, then I'm going to have to do it all. And we
21:19
don't really realize that that's not what all that hard work that
21:23
got you here is not going to be what gets you to the next level.
21:25
So going to school, yes, that's a youth thing, going to college,
21:29
going to law school, go and get your LLM all that stuff is a
21:31
huge thing. But when you start to scale a business, and you
21:35
want to impact and serve more and more people, you really have
21:39
to start thinking about how, you know, how are we how can we get
21:42
this done? And really, who were powerful questions? Who's going
21:46
to help me get this done? Right? And it can be hard for those of
21:50
us who kind of got where we are on our own merit. And we haven't
21:55
been used to asking for help, right?
21:57
Unknown: You feel like you know, what if I gotta go and do it, if
22:01
they don't mess it up, I'm just gonna do it myself. But you
22:03
gotta you gotta let people do that, you know, I've been proven
22:07
all my bad. I've been you know, but I just, it's still hard.
22:11
Davina Frederick: Yeah, yeah, well, it takes a lot of takes a
22:14
lot of mindset shifts, you know, to get there. But it is like,
22:19
it's like anything else. When you started law school, you
22:22
didn't yet know how to think like a lawyer, and they teach
22:25
you that in law school. So when you came out of law school, you
22:29
had a whole different mindset and then practice. You grow more
22:34
as you practice, and you really learn how to apply to real world
22:37
situations. So it's the same thing with a business you, you
22:41
don't magically just get the knowledge, you get the knowledge
22:44
by doing and failing and doing succeeding and doing and going,
22:48
Oh, no, I wish I hadn't have done that. And that's how you
22:51
grow into the person who can be the CEO of a business, you know,
22:57
which is you're on that journey. And you're really, you're really
23:00
jumping in with both feet too, especially since you're kind of
23:02
starting this other piece of your business, which I think is
23:05
really taking off already for you. So it's wonderful. It's
23:08
wonderful. It's that visionary. And, and, and like the highest
23:11
and best use of your time is to be that visionary, right?
23:15
Because you definitely have a lot of energy and vision, I can
23:18
tell for sure, for sure. So
23:21
Unknown: all my clients lack because I'm a visionary. So I
23:24
was like, Okay, I'll just do, I'll just stay up all times in
23:26
my sleep later, just to make sure I get everything done for
23:29
my clients. And I just is I have to figure something.
23:35
Davina Frederick: Well, we will talk about that. But I want to
23:37
talk I also want to I want to go back to the work that you do
23:40
with your clients. Because give us for those of us who don't
23:44
sort of live in tax litigation, world tax controversy world.
23:50
Give us an idea of like some of the some of the issues that your
23:54
clients come to you with.
23:57
Unknown: So most of my issues are with the IRS. I've been
24:02
getting more of Georgia Department of Revenue lately,
24:03
but most of the IRS so most of the time with a small business,
24:07
it happens where of course, you know, 10% of clients are
24:11
audited. So based on his schedule C's maybe 1120 assets,
24:15
I'm sorry, which S corporations or C corporations. And so they
24:19
are audited by the IRS just to verify they have all the
24:22
documents, verify whatever they reported on their tax returns is
24:25
actually valid, and they can substantiate it with
24:27
documentation. So normally what happens with me they come in
24:31
they say hey, Josie, I need this. They are they've been
24:35
audited me. They're asking me for all these documentation. I
24:38
need you to verify I have everything I need. And I need
24:40
you to represent me against the IRS to do that. And so that's
24:45
kind of where I started that and then now I'm at the point where
24:47
it's not litigation where the IRS has said, No, that's not
24:51
true. We feel like you did not substantiate and now we're going
24:53
to charge you this big fee. They charge you this big tax fee and
24:57
you have to pay it or you go to court and So now I come in where
25:01
they go into court. And so I'm litigating and saying, verify,
25:04
okay, women, is this correct or not is always correct or not,
25:08
things like that. payroll issues, I, you know, I get those
25:12
where someone may have not paid their payroll as an employer, as
25:16
an employer, you're responsible for making sure that payroll has
25:19
been paid to employees, and maybe the taxes have been paid
25:22
as well. So if you don't do that, then the IRS can do what
25:26
they call a penalty, a civil penalty against you. And then I
25:29
come in, we're trying to remove the penalty trying to verify
25:31
what happen if there was actually an issue involved. And
25:35
then I also have where I said PPP loans on criminal, also the
25:39
criminal attacks as well, because I work with a criminal
25:43
attorney, and we do criminal tax issues, where a tax professional
25:48
may have had a due diligence issue, and it escalated to a
25:52
criminal issue because they were actually it was a fraud. And so
25:58
now they are being indicted, and they could actually possibly go
26:02
to jail. And so we represent them as well. And then the PPP
26:05
loans where, you know, individuals, small businesses go
26:09
up long, poopy long, maybe they're supposed to get all that
26:11
money, and we represent them as well. So that's kind of the
26:16
niches of of my firm right now. I used to do what they call
26:20
resolution, which was offering compromises, you know, some kind
26:23
of resolution with IRS. I don't handle those as much anymore. I
26:26
actually have someone who handle those. For me, a company that I
26:29
work with very well hands off for me retag Callum, which is
26:33
some of the London ladies who my auditors well, they handle some
26:37
of those issues.
26:39
Davina Frederick: Yeah, yeah. So do you tend to be successful
26:44
going up against the IRS and litigation? I do a lot of Yeah,
26:49
I was gonna say I think a lot of people would have the idea that
26:51
like, the IRS is Goliath, and, you know, they wouldn't be very
26:56
successful going up against them.
26:58
Unknown: Because the thing my team is, we're so interested to
27:01
talk about what we do. Like it starts with compliance, making
27:04
sure that the all the documents are correct for the IRS, I have
27:08
a discovery department, which discovers verify all the
27:11
information, go out and get the tax code. And then I have an
27:14
audit department, which audits all of the stuff that's already
27:17
been done. And if we see that there is no way of winning, then
27:22
I'm going to advise my client of that I'm very transparent, my
27:25
client, I will say, Look, we can settle, we can try to negotiate,
27:28
but we're not going to win. If I'm going to court. That means I
27:31
truly have done the research and everything and got to the point
27:34
where saying, you are correct. We need to go to court and we
27:37
need to defend this. And that's what happens. And when it
27:39
happens like that I'm usually right.
27:42
Davina Frederick: Yeah, yeah. You can work with clients all
27:46
over the country all over United States and really all over the
27:49
world if it's a tax if it's US tax issue. Right. Right. And
27:52
then you also do anything that state state tax related in
27:57
Georgia then because that's where you're alleging
27:59
Unknown: are in Alabama, because I'm on Bama. I have licensed in
28:04
Alabama as well. So Alabama and Georgia, I normally hammer those
28:07
with Department of Revenue, but if there's someone who has a
28:12
state issue that I do try to find a a tax attorney there in
28:16
another state. That's why I found so many tax attorneys
28:19
because I haven't either so that's why I have so many tax
28:22
attorneys I know
28:23
Davina Frederick: because I've looked Yeah cuz you've had to
28:25
have built up that resource bank of people so because I imagine
28:29
if people have US tax issues that a lot oftentimes state sort
28:34
of gets wrapped in there and some in some way like income tax
28:38
some states have state income tax and so I imagine it gets
28:42
complicated and resort have to bring in somebody else right?
28:45
Unknown: Oh, yeah. So with Georgia like versus Georgia
28:48
which I'm you know, I'm I have licensed here, but if the IRS
28:52
audit you and they they're in there is a tax liability for it,
28:56
because which means your your income went up, which means now
28:59
you have more taxes, they send that down to Georgia, and they
29:02
say, you know, you're getting Georgia saying hey, yeah, your
29:06
income taxes went up for the IRS, we want our money too. And
29:10
so you got to route us some documentation showing that you
29:13
actually did all this. So it's a whole new whole new audit that
29:17
goes on so yeah, and on that didn't happen to all states who
29:20
have income taxes.
29:22
Davina Frederick: It's making me have like an anxiety attack just
29:25
listening to you because it's always my accountant. Just, you
29:30
know, we file extensions, and he's just gotten our personal
29:32
return done and everything. And yeah, the taxes every year. It's
29:37
always i i, i My Business Manager talks to our accountant
29:41
and I'm like, You guys have to get it together and I'll do
29:45
whatever exactly that is so I dealing with it and we just got
29:50
an extension, I guess here in Florida because of the flooding.
29:54
Flooding that we had. So we get an extension on that but it's it
29:57
is. Yeah, it's something that I am I've had many, many
30:01
conversations with women, law firm owners who don't want to
30:05
think about their taxes, they don't want to file tax, they
30:09
start out and they don't, they're like, Oh, I didn't know
30:11
I was gonna have to do this. And they delay in filing because
30:15
they owe money. And I know one piece of advice is never skip
30:19
filing, even if you owe money, you come up with a payment plan,
30:22
but never skip filing, never know, because
30:25
Unknown: you're gonna receive a non filing penalty. And so
30:27
that's an extra penalty on another penalty, and people
30:29
don't realize like penalties, you get interest on penalties, I
30:33
don't mean that you get interest on interest only to have that
30:35
happen. But it's compounded. And so that can be half of your your
30:40
tax liability. Debt is penalties and interest. And because of the
30:44
fact that you don't file and you're not valid, because of
30:47
course, if you don't file within three years, the IRS has the
30:50
right to file for you. And they're gonna file with no
30:52
exemptions, no deductions, nothing like that. And then now,
30:54
you got to say, and you only have three years to file. So you
30:58
got to now either take it up or see if you can file the returns,
31:02
and hopefully they accept it. So just I tell people never not
31:05
found no matter if you or not never not found and you know, I
31:07
have I have, you know, women business owners, who are my
31:11
clients as well, or who they have been my clients and I
31:13
resolve issues for them. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
31:16
Davina Frederick: Yeah. Yeah. And I think people think that
31:19
attorneys, you know, would know all about tax law because their
31:24
attorneys, you know, the general public assumes attorneys know
31:27
everything about every area of law. And really, if you're not,
31:31
if that's not your area of practice, and that's kind of why
31:35
I call you you unicorn, too, because there's so many people
31:37
out there, you run into a lot of family law attorneys, a lot of
31:41
estate planning attorneys, but especially among women, so. So
31:48
it's always good to have a good tax attorney for and just like,
31:51
it's good to have a good employment law attorney for me,
31:53
because it's not your area of life. So if you're running your
31:55
own law firm, you need these people in your pocket.
31:59
Unknown: If you ask me anything about other law, I'm like, I
32:02
don't know.
32:04
Davina Frederick: Somebody asked you about a divorce all you
32:05
know, is the tax implication. So
32:07
Unknown: that's it. That's it all. I know, that's how I know
32:09
even with the state, because a lot of people think because a
32:11
state and taxes will go hand in hand. But I don't know that part
32:15
of it. I know the implications of a state because I've been in
32:17
some state issues where they had to bring me in about the tax
32:20
implications. But other than that, I don't know anything
32:22
about opening up a state. Now let's look at my mom's like, and
32:24
I'm trying to do me a wheel. Mom, I don't know anything about
32:27
a wheel. I'm gonna do that for you. Because I have no idea. I
32:34
got you. I can tell you
32:36
Davina Frederick: like, you're like I could do a wheel for you.
32:37
But I don't know, if you want it. You won't be right. Tell me
32:43
about your you do have a really strong sort of network that you
32:47
built over time. Tell me kind of what what your marketing, if you
32:51
say you had a marketing strategy, or from a marketing
32:55
method that has helped you grow your business? What kind of
32:57
things do you do to market your business? Well,
33:02
Unknown: when I first started, I didn't do anything. It was just
33:05
word of mouth, right? It was just word of mouth. And but now,
33:09
I really have hired a marketing team that helps a lot with
33:13
social media helps as well with they get me speaking
33:17
engagements. Either also retained someone for just
33:23
helping me how I helped me build a group of people on social
33:27
media. So mainly, I think that's what's been really, a lot of
33:31
that is social media. And then of course, I started this, I
33:34
started to speak a lot. But social media has been really
33:36
good for me, regarding the marketing.
33:39
Davina Frederick: What platforms do you like? Sorry,
33:42
Unknown: what platforms YouTube because I love to talk. So I
33:45
always I'm always putting YouTube video out there. Well,
33:47
we started anyway, I got so many videos that didn't ever go on
33:51
YouTube, because they just didn't in my inbox somewhere.
33:53
And then Facebook. I'm really good at Facebook. LinkedIn, not
33:58
as much, but I think YouTube and Facebook has been to me been the
34:02
most successful for me.
34:03
Davina Frederick: Yeah, yeah, I do think that I do think
34:06
everybody has kind of fine, where they're what they like to
34:08
do, and also where their clients hang out. So a big mistake
34:12
people make is trying to be everywhere, and be everything to
34:15
everybody. And it's, you know, unless you have a team of people
34:18
helping you, you can't do that, you know, so for sure.
34:22
Unknown: Yeah. So it's been I think hiring a marketing team
34:26
really put me up there to where I needed to be at I didn't you
34:30
know, because of course I was doing by myself and I will do
34:34
good really good for a whole month and then next month you'll
34:36
never see me. I will never I was like this can happen. I just
34:41
can't keep doing this. So yeah, so but they have really been
34:44
very good to me.
34:45
Davina Frederick: Good, good, good. Anything else before we
34:48
wrap up today? Is there any thing else that you want to
34:50
leave our audience with some words of wisdom?
34:56
Unknown: Well, you know my words he was in his don't try to do it
34:59
by yourself. Please. I
35:01
Davina Frederick: welcome you.
35:02
Unknown: I know, learn from me. I mean, you really, because now
35:06
you know, but me doing. Like I said, I do a lot right now I'm
35:10
headed to the big, the biggest, the biggest boss conference in
35:14
Houston, Texas. Sorry. And then on Thursday, I'm speaking
35:19
they're on the tax panel. And then on our comeback, I have my
35:23
home for like Monday, Tuesday, I'm back, I'm gonna I'm headed
35:26
to Vegas for the National Association of tax
35:29
professionals. And now there are a lot of tax professionals that
35:31
do the classes like during this time there, they're getting
35:34
ready, they we do all that find out about all laws, they hire
35:38
new people. And so I've been doing a lot of classes and stuff
35:41
on speaking on due diligence for tax professionals. Now I have no
35:45
other choice but to lean on other people because I'm never
35:47
here. And if I want my clients, and you know, if I hadn't done
35:51
that, in the beginning, I wouldn't have to come home and
35:53
still be doing a lot of work, which I do. But I'm finally
35:56
having to say, You know what, I have to let go because I'm never
36:00
here. And my clients need someone to be here. So at this
36:03
point, I guess I'm going to hire an associate.
36:08
Davina Frederick: Yeah, you're, you're the reluctant grower,
36:10
we're reluctant.
36:13
Unknown: See CEO, Oh, yes. So that's my negatives, like, you
36:18
know, our is crazy. I always tell my clients, if you're
36:21
already prepared, you have to worry about getting prepared.
36:24
Yeah, I wasn't prepared. For all of this, I didn't know it was
36:27
gonna start off and just move like this. And now it has. And
36:30
now like, I'm not prepared for what happens with all my clients
36:33
that I love so much, I gotta make sure they still get what
36:36
they need, because our is in the Georgia Department, and
36:38
everyone's still out there. And so I need to make sure that
36:41
happens. So
36:42
Davina Frederick: yeah, yeah, always. And I really think that
36:46
is a real motivator for growth too, is that we make commitments
36:49
to people. We, we need to back it up. And that's where we
36:55
really start to look at, am I physically capable of doing
37:00
this. So there are only so many hours a day, I do have to sleep
37:02
sometime, right. And that's really, I think, what pushes us
37:05
oftentimes, when we look when we really love our clients, and we
37:08
really love to serve our clients, yeah, that's the thing
37:11
that can really push us into growth, because we know that we
37:15
really want to serve them to a high standard of excellence. And
37:20
also, we can serve more people. Right? If we have a good team,
37:24
right, we can impact more, because you know, there are a
37:25
lot of people out there who need your help.
37:27
Unknown: I know and, you know, my whole thing is, is it not
37:30
gonna find somebody who's a mini me, that's what I want. I want a
37:34
mini me who knows everything who knows, like, the one who's like,
37:39
I do, but I want a mini me and I haven't, I just haven't found
37:42
that mini me yet. And that's, I'm struggling with that on
37:45
because I want my clients and it's like, it's me, that's still
37:48
sitting there with them. Because it's hard when you got me and
37:51
then you get something that may not be what you thought it was.
37:54
And then I think that's hard for clients. So that's so I gotta, I
37:57
gotta, I gotta be able to
37:58
Davina Frederick: pull away if you're wanting to marry me. So
38:01
can I cook? Can I coach you through that real quick, of
38:04
course. So I will tell, I will just tell you this, if you get
38:09
clear on your core values, and you know, what your core values
38:13
are, what the core values of your firm are, and then you hire
38:17
people who align with those core values, that's gonna get they're
38:21
going to have differences, they're not going to be many of
38:23
us are going to be them. But if they align with your core
38:27
values, they're gonna help you provide that standard of service
38:33
to your clients. Right, and so then there and then of course,
38:36
there is a educating the client along the way and expanding
38:40
their mind that they're hiring a firm, and they're hiring a team
38:43
and that actually is good for them, that works their benefit,
38:46
because then they're not sitting waiting for you to get back from
38:48
Vegas, you know, right. So but core values are really the key
38:53
to that mini me kind of thing that you're wanting when you
38:56
figure out what your core values are, the firm's core values are
39:00
and then you start really hiring around those core values. You're
39:04
gonna get those people that you're gonna be like, Oh my God,
39:06
how they relate with this person?
39:08
Unknown: Well, that's the reason why I'm gonna hire you to coach
39:10
me because I'm saying the right here in front of everybody I
39:14
have.
39:15
Davina Frederick: Everybody hears it, it's recorded now.
39:18
Unknown: Here you go. I gotta hire her to teach me my core
39:21
values. Because I don't know.
39:25
Davina Frederick: Josie, thanks so much for being here today. I
39:27
have had so much fun with you, as I always do, we talk. So I
39:30
appreciate you coming on and sharing your story. And I'm
39:34
super excited for you and happy for your, your team and all that
39:38
you're doing all your speaking engagements. And your new
39:42
program is very exciting. So thanks for being here and
39:44
sharing it. Oh, thank you
39:45
Unknown: so much for having me on the I appreciate it so much.
39:48
I love what you do with women. I love what you're trying to do.
39:51
And it's just so inspiring. So keep doing what you're doing and
39:55
thank you so much. And like I said we Yeah, you need to go
39:58
ahead and see more
40:00
Davina Frederick: I thank you thank you have a good day