Latest / All The Right Movies / Casino (1995) | Ep. 13 - Part 1

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Casino (1995) | Ep. 13 - Part 1 · All The Right Movies

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All their movies. At that time, Vegas was a place
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where millions of suckers flew in every year on their own
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nickel and left behind about a billion dollars.
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But at night, you couldn't see the desert that surrounds Las
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Vegas. But it's in the desert where
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lots of the town's problems are solved.
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And a lot of holes in the desert and a lot of problems are buried
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in those holes. Samias Rothstein runs the
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Tangiers Casino in Las Vegas for the bosses back home.
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For a man who bets on sure things, it all crumbles because
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of his long shot relationships with his wife Ginger and his
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friend, the fearsome Nikki Santoro.
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Casino was released five years after Goodfellas, but
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comparisons between the two saw casino eclipse for many years.
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Now it's coming out of the shadows thanks to some great
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performances and Scorsese on Dizzy in top four.
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My name is Luke and with me are Matt.
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It cannot happen. What not happen you fucking Momo
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and Westie? You took your boots off, you put
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your feet on the table, you shit kicking stinky horseman.
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You were smelling motherfucker you.
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All the Right Movies being given the keys to the Tangiers and
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we're selling people the casino dream for cash.
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Hello everyone, Happy New Year and welcome back to All the
1:36
Right Movies and I pop and podcast on classic and hit
1:39
films. Nice.
1:41
The boys are back in town, we've had some time off, and now we're
1:44
reinvigorated and relocated to Las Vegas to bring you the story
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of Martin Scorsese's mafia opus in the desert.
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It's Casino. Before we get started, it's time
1:53
to talk about Patreon. And if you haven't heard us
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talking about this already, then you're in for a real treat for
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our biggest fans. You can sign up to be an All the
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Right Movies Patreon supporter and get access to every single
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podcast that we've produced so far.
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Only our most recent 20 podcasts are available on general
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release. The rest are in our archive,
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available exclusively for our Patreon supporters.
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There are 44 classic podcasts and counting in the archive,
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along with forty other podcasts that we've created exclusively
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for Patreon. Some of those were on general
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release last year, but now they're all tucked away for our
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patrons. So if you want to hear us
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talking about things like The Godfather or Aliens, The
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Exorcist, Star Wars, even masses of the universe, you'll find
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them all if you sign up to be an ATRM period supporter.
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All invite what's on the last one?
2:42
So go to patreon.com/all the Right Movies to sign up and show
2:45
your support. A New Year's resolution you'll
2:48
want to stick to, for sure. Oh, for sure.
2:52
Back to the table then fellas. Matt, why do you want to talk
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about casino? I want to talk about Casino
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because of the reason he kind of mentioned in the introduction,
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Ed, It's a film that's been in the shadow of Goodfellas for far
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too long. I was so glad that it won the
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pole. I think it deserves its its
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moment in the sun because the thing even now would sell very,
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very underrated by people when they talk about Scorsese.
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And I think when you bring it up in conversation, you never know
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what people are going to say about it.
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Some people do love it. Some people don't read it at
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all. So I'm really fascinated to hear
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why you guys think about it. And then for me personally, this
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is the first time I've been able to talk about Scorsese on a on
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an episode. So brilliant.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wasn't on the other one.
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So first time with Scorsese for me, which I'm excited about.
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And also in this film, we get to talk about the single funniest
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moment in any Scorsese film outside of World for Wall
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Street. I look forward to hearing about
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what? That is.
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I know. Very nice.
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When I watched it when it was first released on video and I
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was excited about it because I was crazy about Goodfellas and I
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liked it, but I didn't watch it over and over like Goodfellas.
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In the years since I've seen it maybe 3 or 4 times.
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So not Lords. And I think it's just because
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it's, it's so goddamn long. It is long.
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Yeah, it is. And if you've got a choice
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between this and Goodfellas, it's Goodfellas every time.
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But upon rewatching it, doing loads of work for this, it's an
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incredible achievement, great performances and some eye water
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and visuals. And like you might, I'm excited
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to dive in and just because of with you guys interested what
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you've got to say about it. Yeah.
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Yeah, I'm the same. If you know when you watch a
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film and you go, oh, when's this going to start?
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That you watch this film, you go, fucking hell, when's it's
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going to end? It's just absolutely relentless.
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It's like, it's like watching the neon tapestry while you're
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on a travel later. You're not allowed to stop and
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it's just going around the room. You're just watching this thing
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just kind of going around and you're just fucking.
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It's dazzling. It's one of Scorsese's best for
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me, and it seems like he's in perfect control of it.
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I think in anyone else's hands this would have been a complete
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mess. I think everything's really,
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really top notch about you, with the soundtracks incredible, the
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cinematography, the performances, everything is so
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good. But can you have too much of a
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good thing? I'm interested to know what you
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guys think about that, so let's find out.
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We'll find out. Casino was Co written by Nick
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Pileggi and Martin Scorsese, directed by Scorsese and
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produced by Barbara Defina for Kappa Productions, distributed
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by Universal Pictures and released on the 22nd of November
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1995. Filmed on location in Las Vegas,
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it stars Robert De Niro, Sharon Stone, Joe Pesci, Don Rickles,
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Frank Vincent and James Woods. Yes it does.
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OK, so we're travelling to Las Vegas on our own dime, where
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there are a lot of bodies buried in the desert.
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We're. Going to be here all fucking
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night. After an explosive opening with
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Soul Bass title sequence, we're introduced to master handicapper
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Sam Ace Rothstein. Ace was given the Tangiers
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Casino to run by the guys back home.
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Then we're transported back 10 years earlier as Ace takes us
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through the setup of the casino. And that's where our
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conversation starts. And it ends with Nikki getting
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handy with a fountain pen. I'm going to start us off by
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talking about the Count Room. I think it's just fantastic all
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done in one shot, which is really impressive.
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And I think at times it feels like the entire film is done in
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1 take. It's just dizzy spinning round
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and round and round. I get the sense that that
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decision was made to make the count room disoriented and it's
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hard to keep up. And added to that, that the
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voice over changes from Ace to Nikki speaking.
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He's talking about the guy taking the money right under the
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very nose of everyone else in the room who are all turning a
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blind eye because God forbid they should make a mistake and
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forget the steal. Yeah, it's brilliant.
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And Pesci's voice over past the Jag off guard who gets an extra
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C note a week to watch the door in, out, Hello, goodbye.
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It's great and it's all over in a flash.
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But it just shows you how deep the criminality goes in Vegas
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and is a setup for a story beat in about 2 1/2 hours time.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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The majority of the film was done on location of various
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places in Vegas apart from the camp room because Scorsese
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wasn't allowed inside. So this is a set, one of the
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very few in the film. Doesn't look like it.
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I mean, it's seamless from the scene order this no?
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It's amazing. It's probably the only time
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where you can tell it's supposed to be 1 continuous shot, but
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there is that moment at the door when the door opens.
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You do have that slight transition that's gone into a
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set, but that's just perfectly done where the camera floats
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around. It's just, it's just incredible.
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You know, you straight in. It's fantastic.
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Yeah, and I think you also know that straight away this is going
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to be a much more complex film than Goodfellas is, because in
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that voice, often it's talking about the link between the mob,
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the casinos, the teams to the union.
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What am I focusing on? What's going on?
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And there's two voice overs as well.
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Exactly. Two voice overs, just stop
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talking at me, Please. Just let me like try to get a
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handle. What the story you see.
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But I think there's a great line in here when Nikki is talking
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about Ace and he says I don't think he ever enjoyed himself,
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but that's just the way he was. And we'll talk about the
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character later. But that's such a key insight
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into him as a man, I think. Yeah, that thing with the with
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the two voice overs, I think I've watched this so many times
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preparing for this is that I hear it like when I'm doing
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day-to-day things, I hear like a positive from De Niro and then I
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hear Pesci. So like if I'm going to get
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petrol and then just go to the supermarket, it's like, so I got
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to fill up and then I got to get to the supermarket and then when
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I get there, it's like this fucking guy had enough money to
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get a lot of fuel and then buy all the groceries.
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It's fucking. Like this fat fuck over here.
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Yeah, I dealt with everything I do.
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The scene, the art that I really like here in the opening is that
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when it goes to the bosses back home in Kansas City, and I think
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the way the camera moves kind of mirrors the current room.
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It just kind of, it goes between everybody, but it's just how
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unglamorous it is. Like these boys are in charge of
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everything. And it's just in the back of
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this grocery store. And it mirrors that scene for
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me. And Goodfellas, when they're in
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the prison and they're just preparing food.
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And that's just really important to them.
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You see Scorsese's mom, you're like, yes, she's in there again.
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And then the balls look fucking incredible.
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Just looks unreal. They're just dipping the bread
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in, going between everybody, and the main guys just got that
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heavenly top light. And you say if you got a round
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Number on this and he's like, yeah, it's like he gives him the
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weight. He's like, so what's that like?
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That's not important exactly. It's about 70 grand.
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It's all right. OK, That makes sense to me.
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So I just love the way that kind of parallels Vegas in that
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really unglamorous way. It's very similar in the way the
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camera moves and the way it introduces the characters that
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are important. I think that's really well done.
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And that's just all the way through the film, to be honest.
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Yeah, incredible stuff. Stand out for me though is how
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this whole sequence ends, which is when Nikki just stopped the
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guy with a pair. Oh.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, I. Mean it's nasty like and one
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thing for me like I found when I was pulling my notes together
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for this, I did find myself compounded to Goodfellas a lot.
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Obviously saw this for me when you compare it to Tommy stomping
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on Billy Pats, Yeah, I think this is all more shocking
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because in Goodfellas that is like simmering for a good few
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minutes. Yeah, he Busters won't shut up
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and Tommy's trying to control himself until he snaps.
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I think it's so different here because I don't think Nikki
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snaps is so she just sees he has been insulted.
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And you do, of course. Right.
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OK. This is what I do when he gets
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insulted straight into him. He snapped before he got to
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Vegas. Yeah, it's happy.
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It's. Not even a temper thing.
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And the fact that it's a pen and not knife makes it all more
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horrible to me. It's just such a horrible,
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horrible image. And then when it ends on that
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slow mall, the cigarette smoke rising up like Nicki looking
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proper satanic. And I think what's interesting
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is Ace is looking at him in complete shock and straight away
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you can see this isn't it Jimmy and Tommy relationship either
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not thick as thieves. You can see there's already a
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bit of a divide between them and it's it's amount of convenience
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if anything, the both needy sort of to get ahead.
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But I think it's just such a shocking way to end the scene
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and that dialogue, You know, you beat him with a knife, he comes
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back with a gun. And if you beat him with a gun,
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you better kill him because he'll keep going back and back
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until one of you is dead. Fantastic.
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Yeah, that's amazing. De Niro's voice over.
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He's saying. While I was trying to figure out
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why the guy was seeing what he was seeing.
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Nick, he just hit him. He just hit him.
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It's great that, you know, you mentioned that the about the
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smoke. The whole room's stuffed with
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that cigarette smoke. The lightning is so striking and
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the spotlights are beaming down through that cigarette smoke.
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It looks amazing. Yeah, it looks unreal.
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Robert Richardson shot this. It was the first time working
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with Scorsese. If you watch his work, he's done
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in like, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, uses that really
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heavenly top light. And he uses it a lot here, like
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all the way through the film. It's fantastic.
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And I think in this scene as well, it's really interesting
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that it is an actual pen. Scorsese heard this story about
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a guy just getting stabbed in prison and nobody thought twice
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about it, and he just went Adam with a pen.
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But that's what you would use to kind of write things down and
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get your thoughts on paper. And it's a sign of intelligence.
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And it's like the pen is mightier than the sword.
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And at this time, it just isn't. It is the sword.
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And I think that's just how you live and die in Vegas.
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Or it's definitely Nikki's way of dealing with things.
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It hasn't went like it's just action.
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Still when he's on the ground, gurgling his last breath.
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You go down there. You.
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Told my friend to go fuck himself.
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You. Took your boots off?
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You put your feet on the table, shit kicking, stinky horseman
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horse smiling motherfucker you, you fuck me up over there
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sticking all in the fucking desert.
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Well, after this scene, Ace is captivated by Ginger, the
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glorious blonde at the craps table.
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And for a guy who likes you with things, he bets the rest of his
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life on a real long shot and proposes to her.
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Our conversation continues with Ace's proposal, their wedding,
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and Ginger being showered with jewels and furs.
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Wester, you you want to take this one first.
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Yeah, I think the introduction to Ginger, first of all is
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fantastic. And all that Scorsese's favorite
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shot in the film is that bird's eye view shot of a thrown the
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chips in the air. I think it's just it's it's just
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how many shots are in that that are perfect about 9.
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And it's just throwing chips in the air.
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It's just so fucking stupidly well done.
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But I just love it when their their relationship develops and
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then you get that proposal and what a proposal that is.
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It's just so empty. But then at the same time just
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comfortable. Yeah.
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Just loaded with this false promise of just, you know, I
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mean, I would marry him. Let's be honest.
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If someone said that to me, I don't give a fuck who it is.
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It's like, what is love anywhere?
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To mutual respect, the devotion from one person to another, you
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know, if we've got that foundation to mutual describe
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you put respect. Well, kind of work on it.
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But that's mirrored at the end of the film when he turns around
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and says, well, you never loved us anyway at the start.
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But he doesn't tell her to, which is great.
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She just blatantly says, look, I'm not in love with you.
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And he just dangles carrot after carrot and jewel after jewel and
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cash after cash. And then he wonders why it went
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wrong. But it's like, you know, do you
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want to take a chance? She's kind of like, well, Jeff,
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fuck it. You know, she's that's all she's
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doing. It's just it's brilliantly
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played out. You just go, well, he's fucked
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here. This is the worst proposal I've
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ever seen on film. And you know for a fact it's
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going to go absolutely. Or I let's just get into.
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It's just fantastic. Yeah, yeah.
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I mean, the marriage is doomed from the gecko.
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She tells, like you were saying, where she tells me she's not in
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love with him, but he says it can grow as long as there's a
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mutual respect. I mean just a terrible basis for
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any relationship. Yeah, so needy, isn't it?
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Oh, it's awful. But it's so mafia though.
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The mutual respect mutual. Yeah, they.
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Say all right, all right. It's never going to work.
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But they were both far too blinded by their own irrational
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desires to see a Ginger seduced by Sam says that he's going to
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set her up for the rest of her life.
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And Sam says that when he married her, he knew all the
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stories. But I didn't give a fuck.
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I'm Sam Rothstein, I can change it.
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Ego completely gets the better of them.
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And then at the wedding, when we get like telephone conversation
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with Lester, like Sam with Ginger, Lester is Ginger's
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Achilles heel. It's like a relationship that
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completely unexplainable, but he's just got his hooks in it
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like she has with Sam. And he's on the other end of the
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phone and we get to, we talk about Jimmy Woods later, but
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he's doing court with the prostitute.
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He couldn't give a fuck because he's his pimp hustler.
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And this is a great setup because I think it sets up that
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love triangle between Sam, Ginger and Lester.
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Great. Yeah, and that situation was
14:59
James Woods idea, wasn't it? He's like, I'm going to be with
15:01
a with a hooker doing blow on the end of the phone and he's
15:03
going to see my personality straight away.
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And Scorsese, he was like, yeah, that's perfect.
15:07
Brilliant. Oily as fuck.
15:08
In this James Woods. He's disgusting.
15:10
Horrible Tash. Amazing going.
15:14
To grow one, yeah, I mean, because it is set up as just a
15:18
horrible, horrible my would try from the gecko.
15:20
And I think it emphasizes that when he does bring a home for
15:23
the first time and she sees the house and she sees the jewels
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and all that stuff that he's bought for it.
15:28
And actually, while things really clever is when I think
15:31
when we look at it as an audience, or certainly I do, it
15:33
actually makes me feel a little sick, like that level of
15:36
decadence. It's just nauseating.
15:38
And I think the way that Scott says he shows you that is very
15:40
clever because all that gold looks really tacky.
15:44
Yeah. When gold is supposed to be this
15:46
thing that everybody wants and looks after, it looks horrible.
15:49
The fair court. That's disgusting.
15:51
And yeah, it goes through the whole film wearing some of the
15:55
worst suits I've ever seen in my life.
15:57
Oh, I disagree. I disagree.
15:59
Oh, do you think that even by the time you see him, he's got
16:01
that pink serum with the white slacks?
16:03
Fucking right. Oh is that like burnt orange
16:06
number later on though? Yeah, well, you know.
16:09
They're all fucking horrible. They're all.
16:12
Amazing. He's got like 70 of them.
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I think the point is all like, and what the scene is saying is
16:18
no amount of money you will ever buy you class or style.
16:21
And we can see that because it just looks horrible.
16:23
The stuff they've got to go on. To some she would, you know, it
16:25
did cost the earth, but you know, there's no like elegance
16:28
or class to it and she just calls it stuff.
16:31
It's no replacement for genuine love or affection.
16:33
And the fact that he has to ask her if he can trust her, even at
16:36
this stage, you know, if there was genuine love there, you
16:38
wouldn't have to do that. Yeah, it's just proof that the
16:41
more you have of something, the less valuable it is.
16:43
I think that's that's kind of how they made that and there's
16:45
no love there. If they had a lot of love, then
16:47
that's where the value would be. But he's trying to kind of
16:50
incorporate all of this tacky crap to replace that.
16:52
And then just you can see it a mile often is never going to
16:54
work. But yeah, it's just that it's
16:56
not valuable at all in that amount.
16:58
A little mention to what a difference a day made.
17:02
Washington playing over the top thematically, That's amazing.
17:06
Everything with Lester in our reservations about Sam have just
17:09
gone because she's been showered by all the the jewels and furs
17:11
she could have ever hoped for. I love that.
17:13
And that happens throughout. We could mention every song that
17:16
happens over every scene when how relevant it is, but we just
17:18
haven't got time. So with Ginger and the money in
17:24
place, Sam feels like he has himself covered.
17:27
But that's all going to change. Oh yes, the director.
17:36
Next up, we're talking about an ATRM favorite, Everybody's
17:38
Favorite, Martin Scorsese in a Decade, which had already seen
17:42
him direct Goodfellas, Cape Fear and The Age of Innocence, who
17:45
returned back to his tried and tested gangster genre for Casino
17:48
Westy. What do you think of his work
17:50
here? It's just pure Scorsese.
17:51
No one else can do this and no one else has done it.
17:54
People have tried and failed left, right and center since
17:56
even since Goodfellas, people have failed.
17:57
And he kind of just maybe saw what other people were doing,
18:00
just said give us it here. This is how you do it again.
18:02
And just. Absolutely nails.
18:04
I mean, he was quoted as saying it's three hours, no plot.
18:06
Lot of action, lot of story, but no plot.
18:09
Who on earth wants to direct that?
18:11
And who could? You know, it's just the amount
18:14
of movement that he puts in this.
18:15
The way he talks to Richardson about how he wants the camera to
18:18
move. And if the camera is not moving,
18:19
then something in the frame is moving.
18:21
And if it's static, it's not static for longer.
18:23
Just whip pants or something else, or it goes somewhere else.
18:26
And he's just got this real command over everything.
18:29
And even the freeze frames is a voice over.
18:31
So everything moves, everything's got this real pace
18:34
and this real energy. And I think it's just pure
18:36
Scorsese. And he's just having absolutely
18:38
loads of fun with it. And it's the way he works with
18:40
actors and the way he gives them room.
18:42
Because a lot of Pesci and De Niro's lines were improvised.
18:46
But it's on him giving them that kind of the start, the middle
18:48
and the end and saying you put that together and having that
18:51
trust in these guys. I mean, it's passion, De Niro,
18:54
But which of the director has that kind of relationship to
18:56
pull this out of those guys? And it's just pure Scorsese.
18:59
It's just a lot of fun. It's a lot of violence.
19:01
And it's just just makes your head spin how good it is.
19:04
Really. Yeah.
19:05
And not, like I say, if nobody else could have done this but
19:07
Martin Scorsese. Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's a
19:09
lot of violence. I know that.
19:11
I'm, I'm, I'm continuing this like Goodfellas narrative here.
19:13
But his work here definitely gets overshadowed by all of his
19:17
other outstanding work in the previous 20 years.
19:20
It's not one that I would ever put up with the likes of Mean
19:22
Streets, Taxi Driver, even the King of Comedy, But he set such
19:25
a high bar that this looks like a day at the beach for casino.
19:28
Back to the gangster genre again.
19:30
All right, OK, standard Scorsese, but strip all of that
19:34
away and they're just endless incredible Scorsese moments to
19:37
list in this film. And he approaches the whole
19:39
thing with such like a breathless energy.
19:41
I mean, it looks like it's been shot by a 20 year old, this
19:44
film. Constantly moving, never
19:47
stopping for breath. Like you said, Westie.
19:48
And for a three hour film with a load of characters, some of
19:51
which only show up in a scene or two, it could have been very,
19:54
very easy to make it overly complicated or too much of A
19:56
drag. But it's a complete breeze.
19:59
Yeah. Couple of stand out Scorsese
20:02
moments. I really love that aerial shot
20:04
of Vegas at night. One of the first shots in the
20:06
film Aces voice over. He says that at night you can
20:09
see the desert surrounding Vegas and a lot of problems are buried
20:12
in the halls in that desert. Just great dialogue with Vegas
20:15
lit up in the darkness like it's fizzing with energy.
20:17
Incredible. And.
20:19
The mystery surrounded it. Brilliant.
20:20
Yeah, amazing. And I do like that he manages to
20:23
crowbar his mother into the film too.
20:24
Like you said, Westie, of course.
20:26
I think she just turns up. She just turns up.
20:29
She's amazing. She plays the mother of Piscano
20:31
the the Kansas City under boss and I love that scene where he's
20:34
complaining about his trips to Vegas to his brother-in-law and
20:37
to her his mother cussing all over the place and she's fabric
20:40
lasted a oh wow, why are? You talking?
20:44
About tabs, the counter. Take it easy.
20:46
You're going to have a heart attack.
20:49
She's brilliant. This was the first film that
20:53
Scorsese edited digitally in him, and Thelma Shoemaker made
20:57
16 different cuts of that scene with his mouth.
21:02
Performance, great. But like you said, Wesley,
21:09
though, it is violent, very, very violent.
21:12
And I do have a complaint about that in the film.
21:15
I'm certainly no prude, but the violence here is really, really,
21:18
really tough to swallow. One example, and we'll get to
21:21
some of this later on, but the smashing of the hand in that
21:23
scene where the two guys are signaling across the table,
21:26
Yeah, fantastic, brutal. And it's not left to your
21:29
imagination. And you take it away and then it
21:31
grows and grows and you think it's bloodier than it actually
21:33
was. This close up of his hand being
21:35
smashed with a hammer and a break and the bones and Jesus.
21:38
Christ, it's what? He pulls his hand off the table
21:40
because you think, oh, well, obviously that's a prosthetic
21:42
and his hands under the table, but he pulls off and grabs a
21:45
hold of it. It's like.
21:46
What they did to my hand, man. You can take the hammer or you
21:51
can get out of here. I'll get out of here.
21:54
He's classed that guy, yeah, doesn't even have to think twice
21:56
yet. I'll just leave, yeah.
21:58
Yeah, that's the first assistant director of the film.
22:01
He's actually, it's like Scorsese first assistant
22:03
director. Fantastic performance for him.
22:05
Like, it's brilliant. But the violence does just leave
22:08
me with a bad taste in my mouth. And we'll come on to the other
22:11
moments as we as we continue our conversation.
22:14
Yeah, there'll be plenty more. There is, Matt.
22:18
What do you think? It's Scorsese's work.
22:19
Well, it's very much in his ballpark, isn't it?
22:21
Crime, violent sex, drugs, toxic masculinity, it's all in there.
22:25
But in terms of crime, what a fine interest from with Scorsese
22:28
is. He's never really interested in
22:30
the mechanics office. He doesn't really care how is
22:33
Nikki get to the top. He's more interested in the
22:35
lifestyle that it brings and how that lifestyle is all always
22:39
ultimately unsatisfying. And it's unsatisfying because of
22:42
another topic that he always comes back to, which is this
22:44
toxic, self-destructive masculinity.
22:47
Scorsese time and time again comes back to these men in his
22:50
films who have all the power that could want, all the wealth,
22:53
all the influence, and yet they're always, always bloat and
22:56
it's always through their own behavior.
22:58
People like Jacob Motor raging bullets, not bad luck.
23:00
It's him. These men always bring
23:02
themselves down and I think in terms of all the drugs and the
23:06
power that Scorsese shows in this film, the thing about it is
23:10
he understands how addictive these things are, but he never,
23:13
ever makes them look cool, which I think is a very tricky thing
23:16
to pull off without it seem like he's lecturing everybody about
23:19
it and he never does. I think that's one of the things
23:21
he's so good at doing is showing us how addiction works and
23:24
making us realize the end. People get addicted because they
23:26
love how it makes them feel, but it never leads to a happy
23:29
ending. Nothing.
23:30
You see that in Casino with the drugs, with the money, with the
23:33
power, nothing that these people get addicted to and isn't a good
23:36
result for anyone. And I think the way that Scott
23:38
says he puts that in a film is really clever because I don't
23:41
feel like after something I've been like, you know, had a
23:44
finger wagon lesson for three hours.
23:46
You know, I think he deals in a very clever, very mature way.
23:50
You know, in other films, one of the things Scott says he talks
23:52
about a lot, or he also comes back to his Catholicism and
23:56
faith and religion, which you don't really get here.
23:58
But I think what you do get from Scorsese is even though he shows
24:02
you all this violence and all this horrendous behavior, I
24:04
think he always shows you it from a very moral viewpoint.
24:08
He always like makes you realize one way or the other that this
24:11
is always bad. And I think he does here.
24:13
And I think again, it to show us how clever he is doing it,
24:16
though, because he just integrates it into the story and
24:18
into the characters. And he doesn't flinch from it.
24:20
But you know, he doesn't moralize about it either.
24:23
He just says this is what happens.
24:25
So thematically, I think there's everything that he likes to talk
24:28
about and even some people we know criticize the film for
24:30
that, saying he's he's retreading all ground.
24:32
But I think if he makes it as fascinating as he does here,
24:35
then our person don't have a problem with it.
24:37
And then technically what he does here, I think he's just
24:39
pulling, you know, tricks out of his sleeve left, right and
24:42
center. Like he's just on top form.
24:44
He's got all of these tools at his disposal and he uses them
24:47
all. So voice overs, but you know, 2
24:49
voice overs at the same time. Voice overs that people on
24:52
screen react to, which I've never seen before.
24:55
That's amazing when that opening voice over and the Kansas bosses
24:59
kind of look up and stay into the camera.
25:01
Because. He's talking about them.
25:03
That's amazing montage is cross feared, really inventive
25:06
editing. The style of this film, it's
25:08
just like reeks of confidence, but it's style with the point
25:12
he's not too sure enough for the sacred, which I think a lot of
25:14
Scorsese imitators don't understand people who RIP off
25:17
Scorsese. The thing is just about the
25:19
style, but it's not this always substance.
25:21
There's always a point and there's a point because he knows
25:24
this is the only way we will spend 3 hours with these people
25:27
watching this pretty horrible story unfold is if he makes it
25:30
just glorious to look at, which he does.
25:33
I think his work, he was top. Yeah.
25:36
Fantastic. Well we mentioned it in the same
25:38
breath as Goodfellas already quite a few times.
25:40
But Wesley, how do you feel it compares to Goodfellas?
25:43
Compare and contrast Goodfellas casino.
25:45
It's going to compare and contrast quite heavily, isn't
25:48
it? Because like Matt said, like
25:49
it's Scorsese, it's his ballpark.
25:51
Well, he built the stadium like it's the Scorsese stadium.
25:54
So if you're going to have, you can have more than one game in
25:57
there, it's going to look similar.
25:58
He's going to be the same, he's going to use the same players
26:01
and the same tactics, but if you win, then that's what you've got
26:04
to do. If you won't before you do it
26:05
again. And I think there's a lot of
26:07
things in here. I mean, the love is strange
26:09
moment compared to sunshine of your love moment is hand in
26:11
hand, the pen scene in the shine box like we've talked about.
26:15
And then, you know, when we get to the end of the film and he's,
26:17
you know, Billy bats kills him with the bats.
26:19
It's just kind of like it's pretty hand in hand and just
26:23
some of it's right on the nose and some of it isn't.
26:25
But to me Casino seems like it almost breaks the 4th wall.
26:28
It's just somehow it's like it dresses better, it moves faster,
26:32
it's more slick. And I think that's what you
26:35
wanted to do. I think this is more like a a
26:37
jumped up cousin of Goodfellas as it is like a RIP off of it.
26:40
I think it's just it's not a sequel, it's nothing to do with
26:43
it. But this is like kind of the
26:44
brass ring that the mafia were looking to achieve in
26:47
Goodfellas. And Goodfellas is the
26:48
underbelly. It's a little bit slow, it's a
26:50
little bit grittier. There is elements in this that
26:53
do mirror Goodfellas, but he's allowed to do that because he
26:56
did Goodfellas. He does it with style and does
26:59
it as a little bit of a nod. Yeah, Yeah, I think, I mean,
27:03
it's got, I mean shit loads in common with Goodfellas.
27:06
It's got like that emphasis on on mafia and the hierarchy both
27:10
its main protagonists are outsiders somewhat.
27:13
Both Ace and Henry are Jewish, where Henry's like half, half
27:17
Jewish. The good half, yeah.
27:20
And then you've got Pesci is the out of control Pitbull enforcer
27:24
kind of very similar. A lot of the cast are the same
27:26
as collaboration with Nick Pileggi and it's about organized
27:29
crime. Obviously the Goodfellow shows,
27:30
like those lower echelons of them open seen all kind of shows
27:34
the operation at the top level, but I think they've got similar
27:37
themes, greed, betrayal, excess. But I think casinos main focus
27:41
is on like the breakdown of relationships.
27:43
And I think that's laid out in the narration of the star ways
27:46
is and when you love somebody, you've got to trust them.
27:48
There's no other way. You've got to give them the key
27:50
to everything that's yours. Otherwise what's the point?
27:52
So it's got a main focus on that.
27:54
And also there's a lot of emphasis placed on fashion.
27:57
We've talked about it already, but Aces costumes are out of
28:00
control. Yeah, and I suppose Goodfellas
28:05
Henrys progress is plotted throughout the film where Ace is
28:08
already there. He's already in position.
28:11
Yeah. What about you, Matt?
28:12
Looking at these two films back-to-back, I think the
28:14
difference to me is torn because Goodfellas is a warm film.
28:18
It's a film that invites you in. It says look at this, look at
28:21
these guys, see how fun their lifestyle is.
28:23
Wouldn't you like it better? Come and sit down, have a drink,
28:25
Have some idea? Exactly.
28:27
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It does that and it's really
28:29
clever doing that because by the time you get to the point where
28:32
I would say it's when Spider gets killed, that's when the
28:34
film turns and that's when you realize actually this is pretty
28:37
horrible. These are despicable people.
28:39
But by that point you've been suckered into it in your
28:41
complexity. You're in that lifestyle where
28:43
it's different. To me, Casino is called right
28:45
from the outset. I don't think Scorsese, he makes
28:47
any attempt to try and get you on their side at all or try to
28:51
get you involved in that lifestyle.
28:53
It's fascinated by it, yeah, but it has no pretense that these
28:56
people are beyond horrible. And you get that even with the
29:00
way it presents Vegas, you know, Vegas is this place people
29:02
think, oh, it's really stylish. It's really fun.
29:04
Actually. I think when you get into it,
29:06
Scorsese makes it look a bit cheap and a bit tacky.
29:09
Like some of those dealers. They have ridiculously bad hair
29:12
pieces. Tans, yeah.
29:15
Crazy tans, crazy tans, This suits look quite tatty and
29:18
that's the difference to me. Goodfellas It's a film that
29:20
invites you in because it's going to make you complicit.
29:23
Casino right from the start. It just holds you with an arms
29:25
length and it's going to show you something, but it doesn't
29:27
want you to get involved with it.
29:29
Yeah, Goodfellas kind of invites you into the family home and
29:31
gives you a seat around the table and if you if you play by
29:34
the rules, then you're going to be fine.
29:35
Whereas casinos just basically a standing at the door smoking a
29:39
tub, gives you 100 grand, tells you to come in and he's going to
29:41
fuck you over anyway. I mean.
29:46
Goodfellas, you get an arm around the shoulder from Jimmy
29:48
Conway, yeah. Yeah, lovely.
29:52
As mentioned at the top, the film was shot on location in
29:54
Vegas, with the now defunct Riviera Casino filling in as the
29:58
fictional Tangiers Casino, which itself was based on the Stardust
30:01
Casino, which closed in 2006. Scott says he makes reference to
30:06
the real casino name in the soundtrap.
30:07
I play in the track Stardust on three separate occasions in the
30:10
film. Yeah, there's an instrumental
30:12
version as well, isn't it? Yeah.
30:14
There's a there's a spoken word version in the credits right at
30:17
the end. He's.
30:18
Just having a fucking laugh at him.
30:23
He arranged the shoots in the casino for six weeks midnight at
30:26
10:00 AM, the off peak time for the casino and the only occupied
30:29
a small corner while they were in there, but the place was
30:32
still open and the background a real casino goes, not extras.
30:35
And for added authenticity Scorsese.
30:37
He used real dealers and pit bosses as well.
30:40
Classic, classic Scorsese and it only came about because he had a
30:44
window in his schedule. He was originally slated to
30:46
direct Clockers, but when called on the idea and handed the
30:49
direct and reins over to Spike Lee, but he stayed on as a
30:51
producer like you, he said. Wesley Scorsese worked with DP
30:55
Robert Richardson for the first time on Casino.
30:57
He had worked Lords with Oliver Stone.
30:59
He would go on to work with Scorsese and seven times in
31:02
total, and he recommended that he and Richardson watch a few
31:05
flicks from his private collection before they start of.
31:08
Course he did. Those films were T Men from 1947
31:12
Raw deal, not 1986. It's the 1948 version.
31:17
I hope so. I.
31:18
Think the Mr. Trick on that one there.
31:20
Yeah. And the film called Slightly
31:22
Scarlet from 1956. They were all shot by John Olton
31:26
and had the film noir aura that's Course says he wanted for
31:29
Casino as well. This is the first film that
31:32
Richardson shot on Super 35 format, which just gives you a
31:35
little bit more room on the negative.
31:37
And Richardson saw the final Prince and he was incredibly
31:40
disappointed by the look of it. Really it's.
31:43
Glorious. It's fucking amazing.
31:49
So now we're going to move over to our first Patreon question.
31:52
I mentioned the benefits of being an ATR and Patreon
31:54
supporter at the top. Another one is that you can ask
31:56
us questions and we'll answer them on the show.
31:58
So here's our first one of the year from Ryan Chippo.
32:01
How you doing Ryan? Hello, Ryan.
32:02
Hello. Ryan, Ryan asks.
32:04
Is Scorsese on your Mount Rushmore of directors?
32:06
Who are your four favorite directors of all time and what
32:09
qualifications are necessary to make that list?
32:12
Few questions in there, Matt. Do you want to take a shot in
32:15
one of them or all of them? Yeah, I'll do that.
32:17
So man, Rushmark Cubic would be on there.
32:19
Of course he would be on there. Sure.
32:21
Hitchcock And then there's 4 heads on Rush.
32:24
I was in there. So there's four.
32:26
Yeah, right. For well, well, these two are
32:27
going to have to show your head because I put the corn brothers
32:29
on there as well. OK.
32:33
You know, yeah, yeah, basically, you know, Hoffington hop draw,
32:36
you know. Grotesque command Rushmore, the
32:40
man with two heads on there as well.
32:41
Yeah, delve into the dark mind of Matt.
32:46
Well, I don't want to be in fed Ethan, just have Joel on there
32:49
and then like. Greek mythology.
32:54
And then what did Ryan say? Qualifications.
32:56
I don't think there are any qualifications for me, to be
32:58
honest. It's, you know, it's like any
33:00
kind of artistic endeavor. I don't think there should be
33:03
rules or restrictions on it because otherwise everything
33:05
would be kind of the same. So for me, I've picked 4 very
33:08
different directors there for different reasons.
33:10
With Cubic, I picked him because the way he just went from genre
33:14
to genre, I find really incredible.
33:15
He never repeated himself. That's not something I could say
33:18
about Hitchcock or Carpenter, to be fair.
33:21
You know, they're kind of stuck to a very kind of narrow field
33:23
of interest, I guess, kind of thrillers, horrors and that's
33:25
it. But I do love that film.
33:27
So the only thing I did was I picked 2 favorites, I would say
33:31
Cohens and John Carpenter, and then I picked two who as well as
33:34
being favorites, I think they're just historically significant
33:37
and important when talking about film, which is why I went for
33:40
Cubic and Hitchcock. Right.
33:41
Nice. That reasoned.
33:43
There you go, Ryan. There's Matt.
33:45
Reason. Yeah, Wesley, have you got any
33:46
reasoning behind yours? Well, obviously I went above and
33:49
beyond because I always do this paper and questions and just
33:51
doing more than. The chosen 8.
33:54
Yeah. And ranked them.
33:55
Man rush for absolutely massive heads from the back.
34:00
End as well. You know what it is, you just
34:02
know it's too well. I have chosen 8.
34:06
I imagine four of them are fictional movie directors as
34:09
well. No.
34:09
Movie. Director doesn't stop getting
34:12
stop getting off your station. But like for me, the the
34:15
qualification is just kind of the look that they create, the
34:18
tone of the films, the feel of the films, the performances that
34:21
can get from actors, originality, but at the same
34:23
time innovation and the style that they bring.
34:26
So I've done modern day directors that I would put up
34:29
there now and then I've done kind of the influencers who
34:32
would be the classic Mount Rushmore.
34:34
So the classic Mount Rushmore would be Hitchcock, John Ford,
34:37
Kurosawa, Sir Giuliani. For me, I think they're very,
34:41
very influential. And then if an updated version,
34:43
it would be Scorsese, Kubrick, Spielberg and Tarantino.
34:47
Nice. Yeah, great shouts.
34:50
Yeah, I think we've all got very different choices here as well.
34:54
My Mount Rushmore directors, there's not, there aren't eight.
34:57
I've stick to form. There's only four and not not
34:59
one of them have got 2 heads either.
35:02
So you've answered the question properly, is that?
35:03
Yeah, I have, yeah. You took it seriously.
35:06
I. Did yeah like one of mine
35:10
doesn't have like 2 heads or one eye in the middle of a head or
35:13
whatever your point format. Four on the front, 4 on the
35:16
back. But I think what qualifies them
35:22
for me personally is the sense of visceral excitement that I
35:25
get from watching their films. I think it's primal.
35:27
I don't immediately recognize the reason why I love the films.
35:30
I just know that they're amazing and they strike a call.
35:33
But it's only upon rewatchers and maybe doing work for this
35:36
that I'll identify various elements that make me crazy and
35:40
tick my boxes. So my Mount Rushmore are
35:43
Scorsese William freakin. Of course.
35:46
David Fincher and Brian De Palma.
35:49
I thought you can see Brian Brown there.
35:51
That's fine. If you directed a one film,
35:53
Westie Elder said. It's Brian Brown.
35:59
I'm not saying that they're the best directors, but they're just
36:02
the ones that make the films that I love without casting a
36:05
critical eye. It's just from the gut.
36:07
Yeah, well, no one would go and visit that, I don't think.
36:10
Part of you. This is perfect.
36:14
People are either fucking these guys freaking.
36:16
You'd have to have a written explanation out.
36:23
You know where people like this is a photo spot and like, what's
36:25
this mean? Oh yeah.
36:26
He did The French Connection, The Exorcist, and then
36:29
dissipated. Yeah.
36:30
Yeah, people do gritty New York 70s thrillers.
36:33
I think they did. Yeah, that's fine.
36:35
No problem. Yes, yes they did, and.
36:40
It doesn't even look like them. How?
36:41
How long did it take to build this Mount Rushmore?
36:43
Just an hour and a half after that.
36:48
Very good, very good. I hadn't noticed the the
36:52
similarity of the themes running between the four directors.
36:55
They're Wesley and you're totally blown apart my my
36:58
tastes. I haven't have just cemented
37:02
them into a mountain. OK, well I'm going to end our
37:07
discussion about Scorsese with a quote from the great man
37:10
himself. He said Casino is a film of
37:12
excess because we're showing a world of excess.
37:14
So we had an excess of voice over colour and music.
37:18
And I think you can add violence in the mix there as well, Marty.
37:21
The cast. Moving into the cast of Casino,
37:30
there are three eye-catching performances and we're starting
37:33
with the main man, Sam Eartherstein, played by Robert
37:36
De Niro, a fixture on all the right movies.
37:39
Westie De Niro here. Yeah, De Niro here, he's
37:42
amazing. He's just so watchable, just got
37:44
this real persona that he's just thoroughly enjoying every single
37:49
moment. It's just so nuanced and then at
37:52
the same time, so bombastic. And I think he totally shines in
37:55
this film, but not only for himself.
37:57
I think he sets up a platform for everyone to shine.
38:00
Everyone's better when he's in the scene with them.
38:03
It's just fantastic how he just allows people the space to move
38:07
and the reactions he gives to other actors and he just, he
38:09
owns the film, but it just feels like he carries it so easily.
38:13
For me, this is just classic De Niro.
38:15
He owns the character, He's believable as the character and
38:18
just the little things that he puts into it.
38:19
I mean, I don't know if you know, but he figured out that
38:21
the continuity because of so many takes, and this guy was a
38:24
chainsmoker, but he holds the cigarette at the same distance
38:27
from his fingers where the ash would be.
38:29
So he kind of changes his hand to the position so it looks like
38:31
the cigarette isn't going down. So you can see that like kind of
38:34
through the film, just them little bit.
38:36
The sunglasses he chooses, he chores, all the sunglasses,
38:39
they're all fucking fantastic. Sunglasses are amazing.
38:42
Yeah, he's just on point. I love De Niro, and I think
38:45
you've got Goodfellas where you see he takes a back seat there,
38:49
but this gives him a chance to move forward.
38:51
But at the same time, he brings everyone forward with him, and I
38:54
think that's an incredible trait for an actor.
38:56
Like I say, he doesn't show 1 sign of insecurity here, it's
38:59
just pure confidence, pure performance, pure acting
39:02
prowess, pure De Niro. Well, I agree with you, Westie,
39:05
but I think he's very understated in this film.
39:08
You're welcome. You're wrong.
39:16
I think he's really understated in the film because we don't get
39:18
the usual like De Niro volcano, which I think is just right for
39:22
the character. He plays it.
39:23
He plays it down very, very much.
39:24
Ace is constantly undermined by Nicky, and I love that.
39:27
He's always frustrated with his actions, always looking for a
39:30
way to get him out of the picture.
39:31
I love that it's set up that Ace has got everything down cold
39:34
from the start, and we see that sprinkled throughout the film
39:37
because he's so meticulous. The dancers are a pound
39:39
overweight and they're out an equal amount of blueberries in
39:42
each muffin. An equal amount in each muffin
39:44
do. You know how long that's going
39:45
to take. Even when he's in bed, his
39:50
nighttime viewing is the security footage from the
39:52
Tangiers. Great.
39:55
Great. What a touch.
39:58
But he even takes his pants off when he's sitting down in his
40:01
office so that they don't crease.
40:03
And he and a great use of sock suspenders as well.
40:06
That's something that I strive for.
40:07
When I get a bit older, it's more acceptable.
40:09
I'm wearing those every day. Fantastic.
40:15
A little bit as well. It just relate to his character,
40:17
especially in the office is that yes.
40:18
No sign behind him with the tiny yes no.
40:21
No, brilliant. There are loads of great ace
40:25
moments, but my favorite is is fleeting and very, very subtle.
40:29
But it's when this young kid comes over to Salmon Ginger at
40:32
this function, and he tells us she's one of the most gorgeous
40:34
women he's ever seen and kisses a hand and says that you're a
40:37
lucky man, Mr. Rothstein. And Sam is clearly furious, but
40:40
he keeps it all together. He kind of nods his head down
40:43
and says, thank you. Thanks for that compliment.
40:44
Totally insensate. Yeah.
40:46
And then the voice overcomes, and he says he's one of the kids
40:49
from the casino. Nice kid.
40:50
Bright boy. What balls on this fucking kid.
40:52
I fired him the next day. I love that.
40:58
And as we've discussed and we'll continue to discuss, great
41:02
wardrobe. Matt, what do you think of De
41:06
Niro as Rothstein? The way I look at it is it's
41:09
another compulsive point of Goodfellas is kind of the way I
41:12
wanted to talk about it because Jimmy Conway and that he's
41:14
funny, he's charming, you can understand why people want to be
41:17
around him. He's going to be a good time.
41:19
That's absolutely not the case with ASAP.
41:22
And I'm struggling to think of another De Niro performance
41:24
where he smiles as little as he does here.
41:27
And even when he does smile, you know, when you get in a
41:30
situation with someone who could be like a friend or a partner
41:32
and you've really pissed them off.
41:34
And so you're trying to make make them smile by sticking like
41:36
your fingers in the cheeks and doing that.
41:39
But they're not having any of it.
41:40
And they're still previous idea. That's what he looks like when
41:43
he smiles. Like the smile never reaches the
41:46
eyes. Needs to say that.
41:48
Totally false. And it's exactly that moment you
41:50
talked about there, Luke, When that young kid gives them the
41:53
gives Ginger the compliment. He doesn't understand
41:55
compliments. He doesn't understand joy or
41:57
humor. And I think that makes him a
41:59
really fascinating character because he just wants power for
42:02
power's sake. He has everything that money can
42:04
buy, but he doesn't know how to enjoy any of it.
42:07
So he just wants the control over the casinos of the staff,
42:11
Ginger, even Nikki. And you know, This is why it
42:15
isn't just an hero playing the same character again.
42:17
He's playing a man who just wants complete control at all
42:20
times. And one moment really stands out
42:22
for me is when he's had that confrontation with Nikki in the
42:25
desert and Nikki storms off, gets in the car, drives away and
42:28
that like huge cloud of sand billows over him.
42:31
And he doesn't flinch. He doesn't want to show 1 like
42:35
moment of weakness, doesn't want to cough, doesn't want to try.
42:37
And like Sheila's eyes, he just stands and that's it.
42:39
Wave all from because he has to be in control.
42:42
He has to make sure that if Nikki's looking in like his rear
42:45
mirror, Adam, that he's not bothered by this, you know,
42:49
which I think sums them up. Comfort comes second.
42:51
And that sense control extends what I said at the beginning.
42:55
One of the funniest things I've ever seen in the Scorsese film.
42:58
Briefly, but it's one when he kicks off about the unequal
43:02
amount of blueberries in his blueberry muffin.
43:04
That. It just kills me every time
43:07
because apparently he partly improvised it as well.
43:09
You know, he broke open that blueberry muffin.
43:12
And you notice Kevin Pollock's had much more.
43:14
And he just went with it, which is why if you watch that scene
43:16
again, Kevin Pollak says, what are you doing?
43:18
Because, you know, Danny would just totally veered off script.
43:21
And then the shot the rest of the scene around that.
43:23
Yeah. And yeah, I think find that
43:25
scene absolutely hilarious. And yeah, Tony, you're in this.
43:28
He's like the film, basically. It's very underappreciated.
43:31
Yeah, yeah. He had a lot of involvement in
43:34
the character's wardrobe be based the the glasses on the
43:36
style of Lou Wasserman, who was a like a legendary talent agent
43:40
and Universal studio head. He worked with costume designer
43:43
Rita Ryak to get aces looked down.
43:45
And Ryak said that the costumes reflect the story.
43:47
So as it progresses and becomes more chaotic, the costume covers
43:50
become more chaotic as well. Yeah.
43:53
And this is accounts for Rothstein's costumes, which as
43:55
discussed are an assault on the ice.
43:59
Wears around 70 different outfits in the film.
44:02
Like like Diana Ross, loads of costume changes.
44:09
It's Rostein. This, well, the costume budget
44:17
over $1 million by over $1 million, should I say fantastic.
44:21
The character is Sam Rothstein is based on Frank Lefty
44:24
Rosenthal who was retired from his dodgy dealings living out in
44:27
Florida. Nick Pileggi, the Co writer of
44:30
the film, approached him about writing a story about his time
44:32
in Vegas, which he didn't dismiss but wasn't interested in
44:35
taking any active part in the production.
44:36
But that wasn't until he found out that Scorsese was directed
44:39
and Deniro was playing him and he was fully on board and he
44:41
wanted to set up a meet with De Niro.
44:43
And his involvement also encouraged his former source.
44:45
It's out of the woodwork to advise on the film, so gives a
44:48
much more authenticity. Yeah, perhaps more punch.
44:51
Yeah, it definitely does. Lefty saw the film once, had a
44:54
rough cut screen with Nick Pileggi and he had positive
44:57
things to say about it. But near the end of his days, he
44:59
said that it lacked the detail of what I did.
45:02
Said there are scenes where Rosenthal's character repeat the
45:04
same thing twice and I would only tell you to do something
45:07
one time. That's all I needed.
45:09
Right. And he was furious at the scene
45:10
where Ace juggles on the TV show.
45:12
He said it, resented it because it made him look foolish, and
45:14
that's not something he ever did.
45:16
Yeah, yeah. Works for the film though.
45:18
It does. Yeah, it absolutely does.
45:20
Actually, on that Aces High TV show, Don Rickles, who plays
45:23
Bill Sherbet in the film Aces right hand man.
45:25
He's brilliant. He's amazing.
45:28
He's fantastic. He's fantastic.
45:29
Yeah. Rickles actually made an
45:30
appearance on the real Frank Rosenthal show.
45:32
No, he. Did because obviously.
45:34
He's a stand up comic, yeah. All right, Yeah.
45:37
De Niro was just a massive fan of Rickles.
45:39
He was in awe of them growing up and seeing him on TV.
45:41
And Rickles. I don't know if you've seen
45:43
clips online but Rickles would constantly take the piss out of
45:45
De Niro and Sethi and that all he did was mumbling, mumbling,
45:48
mumbling non-stop mumbling all the time.
45:53
Great. You know you're a lying lowlife
45:56
motherfucking gambling degenerate prick.
45:59
I know that's what you are. Our next member of the cast is
46:01
Sharon Stone, who plays Ginger McKenna, the object of Sam's
46:05
gears and affection. Matt, what do you think about
46:07
Stone as Ginger? Well, last year we did a Take 30
46:09
episode on it, didn't we? Which?
46:11
Was. Which was very funny.
46:15
If any new parents haven't listened to that yet, go and
46:18
check that out. That was a good episode.
46:20
But I think I think we did all say the same thing though, which
46:22
is that Casino is her absolute career highlight.
46:25
And you know, good reason for saying that.
46:27
She does do some very good work, and I think the best I would say
46:29
about is that she goes tour to tour with Dineo and Pesci
46:33
throughout this film. And I don't think there's a
46:35
moment where she's ever out of her class at all.
46:38
So I get to the end of this film and I always feel the same.
46:40
I just think it's a real shame this is her only real bright
46:44
spot in her career because it felt like this should have been,
46:46
not just propelled her. It may be a thing.
46:48
Wow. You know what, Shawn?
46:49
Song. She can actually act.
46:50
She's a really good actress. And so it's a shame that it
46:53
didn't really. But yeah, as a performance, I
46:56
think what's interesting is that I don't think Ginger is written
46:59
with an awful lot of depth in the way that is Nicky.
47:02
I think it's very typical Scorsese, to be honest.
47:05
I think he very rarely finds his female characters as interesting
47:09
as he does his males. And I think that's true of
47:10
Ginger, which is very typical Scorsese female protagonists who
47:15
you only really see her in respect to how she's affected by
47:18
all the male characters around her and what they do and how
47:21
their actions affect her. So a bit like Lorraine Fraco and
47:24
Goodfellas or Kathy Moriarty and raging.
47:26
I think that's just how Scott says he views these characters.
47:30
It's just not his real area of interest.
47:32
And it's a shame because I'd say there's some quality work here.
47:34
You can completely understand why Ace gets smitten with her
47:37
immediately and and I do have a lot of sympathy for her.
47:40
For someone who to be honest is not very nice and she doesn't
47:43
really do a lot to earn sympathy.
47:44
I've Been Stoned just manages to bring enough to the performance
47:47
that you do feel sorry for her as she kind of sinks back into
47:50
addiction. Just a shred.
47:52
Yeah, just a shred. Just a shred, just enough, just
47:55
enough. She doesn't make like
47:57
unbelievably like saccharine sweet Wrentham.
48:00
But just as you said, just that little bit of humanity in there
48:03
that you do feel sorry for her, you know, particularly when it
48:05
gets to rent. So yeah, I think she's just good
48:08
work. The fact that Ginger isn't a
48:09
brilliant character, that's not really on her, I would say.
48:12
Yeah, I think the character of Ginger is pretty much a
48:14
reflection of the story itself. Like glamorous and enticing and
48:18
beautiful on the outside, but rotten at the core with an
48:21
inevitable disastrous ending. Stone's character does echo the
48:24
dangerous glamour of Catherine Trammell for me and Basic
48:27
Instincts, but the performance is 1,000,000 miles away from her
48:30
in that film. Yeah, of course, 1,000,000
48:32
miles. Billion miles.
48:36
Keeps knickers on for a start. At last.
48:44
I think it's very interesting that a woman like Ginger who
48:46
could have like any man in the world essentially that's the way
48:48
she's portrayed. All the riches that you could
48:50
ever imagine is levelled by a 2 bit pimp like Lester Diamond.
48:55
Appearances aren't as clear cut as they appear and and kind of
48:58
like the complexity of human relationship and emotions is is
49:02
explored there. I like that.
49:04
Yeah, I think the rule came at the right time for Stone because
49:06
she couldn't go on be in this screen siren forever.
49:09
She wasn't getting younger either, although the fact that
49:12
she'd never reached these heights again, I think may have
49:14
something to do with Scorsese getting as much out of her as
49:17
possible, like as much out of all of his actors as possible.
49:20
I don't think there are many who are in a Scorsese film that put
49:22
in better performances under other directors.
49:25
Yeah. What I like about Stone's
49:27
performance, she plays it with like that sleight of hand thing
49:31
that Ginger has and does all the all the way through really well.
49:35
Everything slipped very discreetly from her hand to the
49:37
Valley of the Pit bosses in that High Roller scene.
49:40
She slips chips into her purse and then brings out the
49:42
lipstick. Really great move.
49:44
And I think Stone pulls this off with like that effortless cool.
49:47
I think she's great at doing that.
49:48
Yeah. But the character, like you
49:50
said, Matt, the character of Ginger is just so dislikable.
49:53
I can't think of too many movie characters with so few redeeming
49:56
characteristics. She's, I mean, she's basically
49:59
got none. But regardless of that
50:03
behaviour, it is hard to watch her getting dragged through the
50:05
house by Sam or getting roofed up by Nikki or completely
50:08
mistreated by Leicester. Yeah, awful.
50:11
What do you think of her Westie? Yeah, I think this performance,
50:14
you can see she's very much emotionally stripped and very
50:18
much open and immerses herself into the character, which, you
50:21
know, should play. It should be applauded, really,
50:22
considering what the character does go through.
50:24
I think it's very, very believable the way you see a
50:27
slow decline. You know, I miss mismatched love
50:30
for Leicester, a growing anxiety throughout the whole film.
50:33
It's all very believable. I mean, she's just consistently
50:36
a hustler all the way through. She just tries to hustle the
50:38
wrong people and she just starts losing and she starts being
50:41
confused. And then, you know, she gets
50:43
involved with Nicki and she gets lower, lower down and just, you
50:47
know, a despicable character. But a lot of it is, you know,
50:50
the the product of her environment and the environment
50:52
that she chooses to put herself in.
50:54
She has got the capacity of love and she understands that she
50:57
just fell in love with the wrong person.
50:59
I think if she fell in love with the right person, I think she
51:01
might be a character that you would think, you know, she
51:03
could. She does have the ability to be
51:05
a lovely person. I think that is underneath.
51:08
But Stone pushes that so far down and it's just prepared to
51:11
get dragged through the house by Sam and do it herself and have
51:14
our legs black and blue throughout the rest of the shoot
51:17
and just, you know, go through that real physical and emotional
51:20
punishment. I mean, there's a fantastic
51:22
scene. It's when she's on the phone to
51:25
Sam talking about coming back and will you take his package to
51:28
the phone booth and Amy's in the car and she's got a hand up on
51:31
the phone. You see both of her hands and
51:33
her hand drops. But she was under so much
51:34
anxiety in this scene, she had to be calmed down.
51:37
Scorsese's sitting on the floor cross legged, holding her hand.
51:41
She brings a hand down and he's kind of like just squeezing out
51:44
to calm that down because she said, I'm going to overplay
51:46
this, I'm going to overplay it. And then at one point the hand
51:48
goes down. She just brings up a tissue.
51:49
Scorsese he actually gave her that just went it's fine.
51:52
Keeps it, keeps it really level. And if you if you know that
51:56
about how much she was putting into it and how much direction
51:59
Scorsese was given her, that's the level that the one do for
52:02
this. I think it's a it's a great
52:04
performance, but like I say, it's a tough one to watch.
52:07
Yeah, it is. It is very much, but unlike De
52:10
Niro and Pesci, Stone wasn't the only one in the running for the
52:13
role of Ginger. A lot of big names were
52:15
considered, including Rene Russo, Cameron Diaz, Nicole
52:19
Kidman, Melanie Griffith, Uma Thurman, Madonna and Michelle
52:23
Pfeiffer. Any of those names do you think
52:25
could do as good a job? But Pfeiffer actually turned it
52:29
down, didn't she, because she said it was too similar to her
52:31
character in Scarface. That's right.
52:33
Yeah. So it wasn't necessarily she
52:36
that could, it would have, should have been.
52:37
Pfeiffer could have, would have, should have.
52:38
You know, that was it. It was done.
52:39
She kind of turned it down at Madonna, maybe.
52:43
And then I think it would have been a very, very similar
52:47
performance. I think Scorsese would.
52:48
Scorsese would have had to work harder with Madonna.
52:51
He would have had to work less hard with Pfeiffer.
52:53
And he just kind of settled on stone because I think he just
52:56
went right. She's right in the middle.
52:58
She's she's got the ability to do it if I can pull it out of
53:00
her. And I know that he applied for
53:03
the audition and that just was really menial saying, Oh yeah,
53:06
he's Marty's on another meeting or Marty's out to dinner and he
53:09
can't do anything. And she was like, right, well,
53:10
he's just take the piss. So the phone for 1/3 audition
53:13
and she says, no, I'm not doing it.
53:14
I'm going out to lunch. So Scorsese found out where she
53:16
was going to lunch and turned up at the restaurant and just kind
53:19
of pleaded with that to say, look, I really want you to do
53:21
this, can you do it? And I think that spurred her
53:23
article. Yeah, well, he believes in his.
53:24
Then I'll get it done. So he kind of knew what he was
53:26
doing from the get go. But I think I think she's great.
53:29
Anyone else in it might, you might not have that level of
53:32
believability and probably wouldn't have taken it as far as
53:34
you took it. Yeah, maybe not.
53:36
Yeah, I think you've got to give Stone a lot of credit, really.
53:39
She fought off all of that, that talent pool that we've just
53:43
talked about there and loads of talent.
53:45
She did the same for Basic Instincts.
53:46
There were hundred names up for the role of Catherine Trammell
53:49
and Basic Instincts. So I think, you know, at least
53:51
she's fought hard to get where she's got.
53:53
I think just with those two roles, 2 most famous roles.
53:57
Yeah, she's been in the right place at the right time twice.
54:00
Yeah, no love for the specialist from USD.
54:07
No, no, not for. So she was warned against
54:12
starring in the film. Her advisors told her that this
54:14
woman, so it was unsympathetic. She ties a kid to the bed, which
54:17
is unforgivable. That's absolutely outrageous.
54:21
Doing lines in front of us saying you shouldn't really do
54:23
this. Yeah, you shouldn't do this.
54:25
Yeah. And she was told, Sharon, we
54:27
don't think you should go there. But she was desperate to be
54:29
directed by Scorsese and star officer Deniro, 2, her idols
54:33
from a young age. But she had tried to work with
54:35
Scorsese 15 years earlier. She auditioned for the part of
54:38
Vicki in Raging Bull, but obviously didn't get it.
54:41
Right. And just like De Niro, Sharon
54:43
Stone has a customized wardrobe, but she only had around 40
54:46
costume changes, not the 70, right?
54:49
And that white and gold dress in the film was really, really
54:52
heavy and weighed 45 lbs and triggered off back pain from an
54:55
old injury suffering for our heart.
54:57
Yeah, in more ways than one. Hopefully you'll be coming out
55:02
of your coma and guess what? I'll split your fucking head
55:06
open again because I'm fucking stupid.
55:09
I don't give a fuck about jail. That's my business.
55:13
That's what I do. Our final cast member is Joe
55:16
Pesci who plays the out of control mob enforcer Nikki
55:19
Santoro. Yeah.
55:21
Matt, what do you think of Pesci as Nikki?
55:24
I think is Nikki. I think this mod of the
55:26
character then Pesci is often given credit for to to bring up
55:29
another Goodfellas comparison. I don't think he's just a carbon
55:32
copy of Tommy. I think look at Tommy in that
55:35
film. I think he's born into that
55:36
lifestyle. He understands the rules and he
55:40
he obeys them. Whereas I think Nicky just
55:42
doesn't care. He has such an all consuming
55:44
lust for power, doesn't give a fuck, doesn't care about rules,
55:48
wants what he wants, doesn't care what he has to do or who he
55:51
has to piss off to get it. And I think there are the
55:53
interests and aspects that go alongside that.
55:56
The fact that when he's robbing houses, he has to turn the
55:58
photos over because he doesn't like the photographs looking at
56:01
him. The fact that he's got such a
56:03
genuine love for his son, he has to get back every morning,
56:06
whatever he's been doing to make him pancakes every morning.
56:08
It's really fascinating just watching this guy going from,
56:11
like, a complete homicide or rage to real sensitivity in the
56:15
strangest of ways. And because it's especially
56:18
yeah, he obviously brings this intimidation to the role, of
56:20
course, because that's what he's great at doing.
56:22
But it's who he has to bring it against here because he because
56:25
of the fallout, the half he has to go up against a New York and
56:28
he has to convince you that he is someone who could genuinely
56:31
threaten him, which I think he does really, really well.
56:33
And as well as I know Pesci's character, he was based on a
56:36
real life mob heavy called Tony Spillotro.
56:39
And when he was made-up in costume with the makeup, he
56:42
actually bought quite a resemblance to him.
56:44
And when they were shooting on scene, as he said, like the shot
56:47
on action in actual casinos use real life pit bosses.
56:50
And some of those pit bosses had had run insurance with with
56:53
splotron real life, and apparently some of them nearly
56:55
faded when the saw Pesci just stroll in looking like so.
56:59
Amazing. He does look like him, yeah.
57:01
He does, yeah. So to have that effect on the
57:03
extras in this film must have just, like, maxed up his
57:06
performance even more because he's pretty terrifying.
57:09
But I think there's a lot going on with him that people don't
57:12
really give enough credit for. Yeah, I totally agree.
57:14
There's a lot below the surface with Pesci here.
57:17
He's got a lot going on, and it's a lot more intelligence to
57:20
this performance than people give him credit for because he
57:22
he sits back a lot and he's very kind of nuanced and he's very
57:26
relaxed in some bits. I mean, when when they stand in
57:29
there and he first turns up, he's like, yeah, I'm here, I'm
57:31
here with him. And he points to Sam and he's
57:33
standing there and they're like, yeah, Carmichael's gone.
57:35
Yeah, he's got his bags. I don't know.
57:36
Carman's not here. Carman's out.
57:39
Yeah, he's just got the toothpaste.
57:41
And he's just. Yeah, yeah.
57:43
And it's just the back of his head and he's just shrugging.
57:45
And he's kind of like, yeah. And they didn't, didn't sign the
57:48
papers. I don't fucking need those
57:49
anymore. But it's just little things like
57:52
that, still intimidating, but very, very quiet.
57:55
And I think he does that really well.
57:56
He has that balance between, like Matt was saying, the
57:59
sensitivity and this absolute homicidal maniac.
58:02
And Pesci brings that in, this real authenticity to the
58:05
character. I think through his performance,
58:06
he's really authentic to the rule, and nobody else but Pesci
58:09
could do that. I mean, he looked like the guy
58:10
anyway. But in this he totally totally
58:14
understands the assignment and nails it.
58:16
Yeah, I agree. In one of his earliest scenes,
58:18
he says I couldn't wait to get my hands on Vegas.
58:21
And he's like a kid in a candy store just busting heads and
58:23
generally just being the scourge of everything and everyone in
58:26
Vegas. Angry little bastard.
58:29
I really like his physicality. When he's kicking the guy with a
58:32
fountain pen or when they're busting up the guy in the street
58:35
and he's kicking. When he gets tired, he starts
58:37
kicking with his entire body. He puts everything in there and
58:40
his back goes back. Yeah, yeah, Great.
58:44
Well, Pesci explodes on screen and he's got memorable moment
58:46
after memorable moment. I really like it when Sam is
58:49
threatening that he's going to be put in the black book and
58:52
Nicki says that thing's a bunch of bullshit anywhere.
58:54
They've got two names in there, and one of them is still Al
58:56
Capone. Funny line, really funny line.
59:01
And that meet up that you mentioned, math, that meet up
59:03
that he has with Sam in the desert, he doesn't give Sam a
59:06
chance to even breathe during that exchange.
59:09
Storms out the car, doesn't it? Yeah, I'm the only thing that
59:12
matters out here, not your country clubs or your fucking TV
59:15
shows. And what the fuck are you doing
59:17
on TV anyhow? You only exist out of here
59:20
because of me. He's great, He's fantastic.
59:24
But because he's so outlandish, I think he does sometimes
59:27
venture into that cartoon villain, right?
59:29
And I think that's because he's doing things that are just
59:31
completely, like, mind bogglingly out of control.
59:34
But the former mobster turned motivational speaker Michael
59:37
Francesi. He reviewed Casino for accuracy,
59:40
and he said that Pesci's performance is the most
59:42
realistic he's ever seen on screen.
59:45
Wow. Wow, that's believable.
59:47
I do, however, find it very difficult to watch the sex
59:50
scenes between Ginger and Nikki. Yeah, and I'm going to explain
59:54
myself here. I think you're supposed to
59:56
though. Luke, just turn the brightness
59:59
up you. Mean damn.
1:00:04
Damn. Off and the sound.
1:00:08
I would imagine that stone is double the height of Pesci,
1:00:11
which makes even just the sheer mechanics of them being together
1:00:14
very hard to believe and tough to even work out in your own
1:00:18
head. And then when they're having sex
1:00:20
they're all breathy and he's sweating like a pig.
1:00:23
It's disgusting to watch. Should just be the top of his
1:00:26
head and just his hand on a shoulder, shouldn't it really,
1:00:28
if you think about it? And also Stone Pesci.
1:00:34
He's having a laugh, isn't he? Yeah, well, you know.
1:00:37
Well, you versus that. Actually just hitting rock
1:00:39
bottom though, isn't. She is as pushes on the way
1:00:41
down. Like you said Matt.
1:00:43
The character of Tommy is based on mafia enforcer Tony the Ant
1:00:47
Spellateral, nicknamed the Ant by the FBI in the media.
1:00:51
A shortened version of the FBI's actual name for him.
1:00:53
That little piss Ant. Yeah, yeah.
1:00:59
The Ant was partnered up in Vegas with Lefty and it's
1:01:02
believed that he killed about 25 people for the mob, and the
1:01:04
Vegas crime rate went up by 70% after he showed up in the city.
1:01:09
Fucking hell. Jesus.
1:01:11
Almost double of all the crime in the city since he got there.
1:01:18
Pesci's then wife called Claudia Harrow.
1:01:21
She had a small part to play in the film.
1:01:22
She plays Trudy, the band leader on the TV show Aces Hi Aces Hi
1:01:27
that person and they later divorced and she remarried.
1:01:31
In 2000, she was convicted on two counts of attempted murder
1:01:34
when she hired a hit man to kill her ex-husband.
1:01:37
The one after Pesci. Look, he escaped for the little
1:01:39
fella. He was, he was a stuntman,
1:01:41
wasn't he? Yes, he was.
1:01:43
Yes, stuntman. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:01:44
That reminds us of like Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
1:01:52
Before we get to our second Patreon question, we've got a
1:01:56
little word from our sponsors here.
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Absolutely sounds amazing. Yeah, really helpful.
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Yeah, wonderful. It's always nice to know those
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people out there who are willing to help.
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And if you know, you should always reach out if you need
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that kind of service. And it's lovely to know that
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these people are out there. Absolutely great guys.
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So to finish on the cast, we've got our second Patreon question.
1:04:41
This one comes from Bobby Pringle.
1:04:43
Hello, Bobby. Hello.
1:04:44
Bobby. Bobby says Pesci is great again,
1:04:47
but who's winning a fight between Nikki and Tommy from
1:04:50
Goodfellas? Oh.
1:04:52
Tough, tough one. What do you say, Westie?
1:04:54
Is a tough one. There's going to have to just be
1:04:56
one deciding factor and I'm going to go for Tommy winning
1:05:00
for the sole reason that he would go after Nicky's son,
1:05:05
Little Nicky. Wow.
1:05:07
It's an Achilles heel. Tommy doesn't have an Achilles
1:05:09
heel apart from going after everybody, doesn't care about
1:05:11
anyone really, just cares about himself.
1:05:13
So yeah, because Nicky's got Little Nicky, it's leverage.
1:05:16
So I think Tommy would would get him on that.
1:05:18
OK, well the opposite of you, Westie and mine is going to
1:05:23
mirror in a certain way. I mean, they both have a same
1:05:25
main streak. They both get whacked when they
1:05:28
don't say you come in and they're both angry little
1:05:29
bastards as well. But I'm going with Nikki because
1:05:32
he's obviously he's outrageous. There's no stopping until he's
1:05:35
dead. But I think Tommy is a little
1:05:36
more sensitive and I think you could disarm him with talk about
1:05:40
his mother and then when he's. Right.
1:05:41
Car drops, Yeah. That's where Nikki would pounce.
1:05:44
Yeah, Can I borrow this knife? Oh my, it's a sin.
1:05:48
I'll. Bring it back, I'll bring it
1:05:50
back. The hoof.
1:05:53
You get to decide and vote Matt. Who wins?
1:05:57
Well, I think they did get in a fight, you know, in the elev
1:06:00
when Roddy Pipe and Keith David have that.
1:06:02
Goes on. Forever.
1:06:04
Yeah, that's what their fight would be like.
1:06:06
Or like those who are like Wander Brothers cartoons, you
1:06:08
know, when the characters would find it's just like a big dust
1:06:11
ball and you get like fists and legs popping out and stuff like
1:06:14
that. That's what they're fighting.
1:06:16
Honestly, I don't think I would win.
1:06:18
I think they would both end up dead at the same time because
1:06:21
like Rocky stop and they would just keep on going on until
1:06:25
they've just dropped dead at the same time.
1:06:27
Yeah, they'll probably go. It'll go on for ages until they
1:06:30
both had this one better dialogue that was exactly the
1:06:32
same line. And they just went, I'm going to
1:06:33
kill you, you dumb motherfucker. You said the same thing at the
1:06:37
same time. And then they'll kind of gang up
1:06:40
and then take over everything. So nobody wins then?
1:06:45
It's a draw. Nobody wins.
1:06:46
It's a draw. It's a draw in my my scenario.
1:06:48
Yeah, I'm happy with that. So three eye-catching lead
1:06:54
performances and Casino not forgetting the great support by
1:06:56
Don Rickles, Kevin Pollock and Frank Vincent.
1:06:59
Indeed, the middle. Into the middle act of Casino,
1:07:09
Nicky's behavior becomes too hot for the powers that be and he
1:07:12
finally gets put in the Black Book along with Al Capone.
1:07:15
This ignites a reign of terror across Vegas.
1:07:18
Blood is spilled and eyeballs are popped as Nikki confirms
1:07:21
himself as the new boss of Las Vegas.
1:07:23
And I'm going to go first here, and I want to talk about the use
1:07:25
of can't you hear me knocking by the stones?
1:07:39
Great track, Great track. And I just love, like, the
1:07:44
slickness of just this whole sequence with the song bubbling
1:07:47
underneath. It plays his Nikki busts open
1:07:49
every diamond store, turns his bedroom into a bank vault, and
1:07:52
then enlists Charlie Clarke cases banker to help legitimize
1:07:55
his money. And all of this is happening at
1:07:57
such a pace. Boom, boom, boom.
1:07:59
The camera's swooping from right to left and up and down, and
1:08:02
it's like a dance with the camera and the characters,
1:08:04
They're all moving in perfect synchronicity.
1:08:06
And the song itself, it plays over 7 minutes, 7 minutes song.
1:08:10
And I can't think of any other example where the entirety of a
1:08:14
song of the length of this plays until the very end of the song.
1:08:17
And there's no cuts in it, it just plays all the way through.
1:08:20
It's amazing stuff. Really cool.
1:08:23
That's Sax. It's just that opening track and
1:08:25
shot without. When the guitar comes in, it's
1:08:27
just and and and and and. It's moving across everybody.
1:08:30
I got a crew. Oh yeah.
1:08:32
That's the first thing. They're the same.
1:08:34
Fucking amazing, yeah. Crazy.
1:08:36
Yeah, there's lots of fantastic details in this bit.
1:08:39
Oh amazing. Absolutely.
1:08:40
I love it when you see where he's going to put his money
1:08:43
because he can't just keep hiding it in his closet all the
1:08:45
time. So he starts investing in these
1:08:46
different areas and he gets you get Sam's banker and to kind of
1:08:50
invest some of the money and then he puts it into restaurants
1:08:52
and it's just that little seed of him in that restaurant.
1:08:54
And then you see Dominic, he just spits in the sandwich.
1:08:58
God fucks he doing that. This is classic.
1:09:01
He can't he can't even run a restaurant properly and he wraps
1:09:04
a sandwich and then you say give it, gives it to the cops and
1:09:07
you're like, yes, that's perfect actually, because I thought that
1:09:09
was doing that for a normal customer because what is so sick
1:09:12
of it? But they're like, it does this
1:09:13
meaning behind it and hilarity behind it.
1:09:15
And then when you see how good Nick is at actually running that
1:09:18
restaurant and he's just walking through and you've got that
1:09:20
great track and shot and he's just walking up with different
1:09:22
people as they turned you into a messenger as well as he I'll do
1:09:25
anything. He's just got that kind of real
1:09:28
panache about him and it's just brilliant.
1:09:29
And then he said when he's interested in the showgirls and
1:09:31
all he does is like, walks into the parking lot with her and
1:09:34
he's just talking about veal pink, veal white.
1:09:36
You know, you got a beating again, tenderize it.
1:09:38
And then just kind of pushes her head down.
1:09:41
It's just so derogatory. Got to be real tender, you know
1:09:44
what I mean? Yeah, it's horrible.
1:09:47
It's just it just shows that he's positioned really, really
1:09:50
well and what Scorsese he does all the way through this film.
1:09:53
There's just so many set pieces that look so expensive, you
1:09:57
could base a whole film in them. Like that restaurant, you do a
1:10:00
whole film in there, it looks absolutely massive.
1:10:02
Like when you know people are getting shot in the kind of
1:10:04
turnover, the restaurant that's going to start shooting people,
1:10:06
that could be the end sequence to any of the film, but it's in
1:10:09
there for like 20 seconds, 30 seconds.
1:10:12
It shows his personality yet again that he's just really
1:10:14
likable and dead, kind of like very sophisticated when he wants
1:10:18
to be and then just an absolute nightmare.
1:10:21
But that opening bit when he spits in the sandwich and just
1:10:23
gives it to the cops, I just think that's a master stroke and
1:10:25
choke out a motherfucker. Hey, how you doing?
1:10:29
Great, the whole thing for me, this section, it's all about
1:10:33
Nikki and I think it's one of these bits of the film where you
1:10:36
do realize there's fall Mortarim than you maybe think, because I
1:10:40
love that line at the beginning where he first gets told that
1:10:43
he's banned and yes, well, could I still go to this casino to get
1:10:47
one of those sandwiches that I like it like it humanizes him in
1:10:50
a way. He's got a favorite sandwich and
1:10:52
he's really annoyed he's not going to be able to get his
1:10:55
favorite sandwich. I mean, we would all be really
1:10:57
annoyed at that. There's sorts of little insights
1:11:00
to him. You know, when he's talking to
1:11:01
that guy at the bar, he's been gambling his money away instead
1:11:03
of paying rent and paying utility bills again, the
1:11:06
groceries in for his kids. And Nikki is genuinely really
1:11:09
upset at him. And I can't imagine for one
1:11:11
second if we're going to do the whole comparison thing again,
1:11:14
don't imagine for one second Tommy would give a shit in a
1:11:16
similar situation in good. Tommy wouldn't care about anyone
1:11:19
else, Nikki genuinely does not. Just saying that's a really
1:11:22
fascinating way to look at his character because there is this
1:11:25
soft side to Nikki and it just pops up in the weed.
1:11:28
As to places I say given the guy the money making breakfast for
1:11:32
some, even when Nikki is telling that story about the diner that
1:11:34
gets shut off, he sounds genuinely really sad about the
1:11:37
fact that the waitress got killed because she was then a
1:11:40
night off just just working an extra shift.
1:11:42
I think Nikki is a really interesting character.
1:11:45
Very strange contrast. Nothing.
1:11:47
This whole sequence demonstrates that better than anywhere else.
1:11:51
Then he does spoil himself, Matt, because I want to talk
1:11:53
about one of the most notorious scenes in the film, the moment
1:11:56
where they're beating Tony dogs. Tony Dogs great name for a name.
1:12:01
And Nikki saying don't make me be the bad guy.
1:12:03
Yeah, because this is like the only bad thing he's done.
1:12:06
Don't make a fuck out of me. He's put ice picks to his balls
1:12:10
already now don't think he's the bad guy.
1:12:12
Don't make me the bad guy for this moment.
1:12:15
Like I said before, it's this is too much for me to take.
1:12:18
This is the this is the the pinnacle.
1:12:20
I suppose maybe with the end as well.
1:12:22
Like I was saying earlier though, the violence this is
1:12:24
just, it's unpalatable. It takes a completely over the
1:12:27
edge of acceptability. The eye popping scene.
1:12:29
Yeah. And the reason that this scene
1:12:31
fails so graphically over the top is because Scorsese included
1:12:34
it to distract the MPAA to allow other violence scenes to remain
1:12:38
uncut. He didn't expect the head in the
1:12:40
Vice scene to stay, but, you know, they seem fine with it.
1:12:43
Yeah. That's cool.
1:12:45
Keep that horrible. It's very blinking.
1:12:47
You'll miss it though. No pun intended.
1:12:54
But I think it's the suggestion of it and and what that person's
1:12:57
had to go through to get to this final part.
1:12:59
And then and you do see like the spray of it coming out in the
1:13:03
shot and that, yeah, I think it's more the idea of it than
1:13:07
what you actually see. But it but the idea of it is too
1:13:10
much for me to stomach. And it does sing gratuitously
1:13:14
violent. It's it's alleged that the Ant,
1:13:16
the actual person that Nikki is based on, did use a vice as a
1:13:19
form of interrogation. He was trying to get information
1:13:22
about a hit on the Scalvo brothers out of this fella
1:13:25
called Billy McCarthy, a fellow gangster.
1:13:28
And the and Beetle McCarthy stabbed him in the testicles
1:13:31
with an ice pick, as is explained on screen but not
1:13:34
shown on screen, thankfully. Then put his head in a vice
1:13:37
where he reportedly shrank his head to 5 inches wide and his
1:13:42
eye popped out. You know, I mean, that's
1:13:44
actually, this is actually happened.
1:13:45
Well, reportedly, this is what actually happened, yeah.
1:13:47
Looks like Beetlejuice at the end.
1:13:53
Unlike this film, McCarthy was eventually covered in light, a
1:13:56
fluid and set on fire. Just grizzly stuff.
1:13:58
He, yeah, he survived the vice in the head door and then they
1:14:01
just set him on fire. Ice picks and the Tasers.
1:14:03
Jesus, somewhere to go. Not not like slit.
1:14:06
You throw it like they do in the film.
1:14:08
Or you know, give him a semi dignified death.
1:14:11
Set him on fire. Outrageous.
1:14:13
Tell me it. Happened to me.
1:14:14
What happened to you? You lost your control, lost
1:14:16
control, you lost you, and you're fucking.
1:14:18
Walking around like John Barrymore, a fucking pink robe
1:14:20
and a fucking a cigarette holder.
1:14:23
After this, Ginger's substance abuse sparrows out of controls,
1:14:26
the boss is back home and not happy that they're being
1:14:28
skimmed, and Philip Green is sued by his silent partner.
1:14:31
We're looking at the sequence that starts with Nicknie
1:14:33
threatening to bust Aces Bankers head and ends up with bodies
1:14:37
popping up all over town. And.
1:14:39
And I want to talk about that first moments, the exchange
1:14:41
between Nicky and Charlie Clarke, Aces banker.
1:14:43
Yeah, it's fantastic. I just love that Nicky comes in
1:14:46
there and he's all sweetness and light and he says that he, he
1:14:49
wants his money back. And Clark kind of laughs it off.
1:14:52
So Nikki says very calmly, very politely, that he should maybe
1:14:55
explain and what he does. And Clark's all bought in what
1:14:58
he's nodding his head. And well, yes, that would be,
1:15:00
that would be very nice to hear. Go on then.
1:15:04
And then Nikki tears it. This detailed reign of violence
1:15:07
that he's going to rain down on him.
1:15:08
He's going to walk down to the bank tomorrow, get up, walk down
1:15:11
to the bank and crack his head wide open.
1:15:14
Then when he's coming out of jail, hopefully he'll be coming
1:15:16
out of his coma. And guess what?
1:15:18
I split your fucking head open again because I'm fucking
1:15:20
stupid. I don't give a fuck about going
1:15:22
to jail. That's my business, that's what
1:15:24
I do. Holy shit.
1:15:25
And Clark starts to shit himself.
1:15:27
He's really deep breathing. He's asking Sam for help, and
1:15:30
when Nikki ushers him out, he says to Ace.
1:15:33
You think you've got the point? Yeah, brilliant.
1:15:38
Great. In this scene, there's a there's
1:15:40
a photo on the counter and it is of Lefty Rosenthal and the Ant
1:15:43
spell out draw the people that Deniro Peshi Karen based on,
1:15:46
right? And I do adore that exchange
1:15:49
between Nikki and Ace that follows.
1:15:51
Ace wants to run like a square joint and he wants no business
1:15:54
with Nikki. And he says that Nikki's lost
1:15:56
control and Nikki comes back at him.
1:15:58
I've lost control. Look at you.
1:15:59
You're walking around like John Barrymore.
1:16:02
A fucking pink robe and a fucking fucking cigarette
1:16:04
holder. I love that, like you said,
1:16:10
Wesley scores, Susie encouraged improvisation, giving them a
1:16:13
starting end point. And I think you can say that
1:16:15
here because Pesci stumbles over those words like a fucking
1:16:18
cigarette holder. But I think it feels right for
1:16:20
the scene because he's so enraged.
1:16:21
Yeah, it's fantastic, though. Great dialogue.
1:16:25
That scene really sticks out. For me, there's just that lovely
1:16:29
parallel that we mentioned earlier between this and
1:16:31
Goodfellas and just shows how more fast-paced and how much
1:16:34
score says you wanted to just kind of blast through this film
1:16:36
because you've got all the bodies being found.
1:16:38
It's all being blamed on Nikki. But just the way the camera just
1:16:41
starts really close and then just spins up to these aerial
1:16:45
shots of people on the floor. There's a close up of the of the
1:16:48
mink court and just the Fox's head and it's just.
1:16:50
Whatever the fuck it is. And it just kind of spins all
1:16:53
the way up the guy in the car with his head back and his mouth
1:16:56
open. And then it freeze frames on a
1:16:57
flash going off off the camera. It's just like blinking.
1:17:00
You miss it. This is just absolute genius.
1:17:02
And then there's that car bomb outside the house where it just
1:17:04
triggers and it just goes and like fucking hell.
1:17:07
And then it's just the voice over.
1:17:08
You've got the dual voice over again where you've got some
1:17:11
coming in from one side. And then Nick, he was playing
1:17:13
the victim and just kind of the blame me for everything, even
1:17:15
though, you know, and he's just being questioned.
1:17:17
He's coming out of the court and it's just this brilliant back
1:17:20
and forth. But the comparison to this and
1:17:22
obviously the Layla scene in Goodfellas, which is on for
1:17:24
about two minutes, 20 seconds, this is about 25 seconds.
1:17:28
So that's the comparison between the two if you want.
1:17:30
It's pretty much the same thing happening except Scorsese.
1:17:34
He's just like, this is how fast-paced Casino is.
1:17:36
This is how breakneck speed this is, this is how little time I've
1:17:39
got for this sequence and how much time he had for it in
1:17:42
Goodfellas. So if you compare that, that
1:17:44
kind of contrast sports of both the films for me and just shows
1:17:47
kind of the pace of both and what he's trying to explain and
1:17:49
what he's trying to do. Fantastic news of Gimme Shelter
1:17:52
in that, yeah. Yeah, it's a live Max.
1:17:55
Into the the original two different versions they splice
1:17:59
together. Amazing.
1:18:00
Brilliant. Yeah, classic Scorsese.
1:18:02
And one thing about casino is I do find it genuinely funny and I
1:18:07
didn't remember it being as funny as it did.
1:18:09
And there's there's a great Nikki moment and it's very, very
1:18:12
throwaway. And it's when he's being pursued
1:18:14
by that pack report as the followed him outside.
1:18:16
And it's a line that just really tickles me.
1:18:18
He says to one of them. Watch yourself.
1:18:20
You're going to get runned over. He sounds genuinely really
1:18:22
concerned. Of course, no, you don't even
1:18:25
see who he's talking to. But one of them, he's like
1:18:26
generally concerned this report is going to get knocked over.
1:18:29
And in fact, he says, run over that that.
1:18:31
Makes me smile as well. The way he describes that.
1:18:34
But then it does send on again, another really funny sequence,
1:18:37
one of the funniest in film, which is when that FBI spike in
1:18:40
rooms out of gas landed in Ace is Ground.
1:18:43
I mean, it's proper fascicle stuff and it's just it's used so
1:18:47
because it illustrates the difference between Ace and Nikki
1:18:50
not disappointed. It illustrates that beautifully.
1:18:53
Is he's sitting there, he's seething like wildly, like
1:18:57
volcanically angry because he's in a business mate and he's
1:19:00
trying to restore his reputation.
1:19:02
He attend his innocence. Nikki thinks it's hilarious
1:19:05
thinks it's the funniest thing you know, says to school, right
1:19:08
let's say potshots the plane so you can hit it just start
1:19:11
walking golf balls through onto the plane.
1:19:13
Absolutely hilarious. It's fantastic.
1:19:15
It's just more evidence of this schism that's going between them
1:19:18
and how Nikki is losing control. And you know, you know, it's
1:19:20
only going to end up one way now.
1:19:22
You can hear the noise of the golf balls hitting off the plane
1:19:26
as Ace is just sitting there. Like you saying in that quiet
1:19:28
fury, it's. Just one of the things where you
1:19:31
go, oh, this could be in a film, It's just so farcical.
1:19:33
But that actually happened. But it was mechanical failure on
1:19:36
the plane, wasn't it? It wasn't running out of fuel.
1:19:38
But that's I think the running out of fuel makes it funnier
1:19:39
because obviously they've got nothing to kind of latch onto,
1:19:42
so they need to keep going and keep going.
1:19:43
So it gives their like gives Ace a little bit more prowess of
1:19:46
like he's not giving anything away.
1:19:48
But I still think it's really funny how the funniest bits in
1:19:50
this film actually based on things that really happened.
1:19:53
Yeah, and the most violent and outrageous things actually
1:19:56
happened as well. Well, yeah, yeah.
1:19:58
Great sequence. So with Nikki dealing with
1:20:00
degenerate animals, he takes control of Vegas.
1:20:02
But in his line of work, things don't run so smoothly.
1:20:06
Oh, I'm sorry things don't run so smoothly.
1:20:15
The crew. We're now looking at 2 elements
1:20:20
of the Casino Crew, starting with a screenplay written by
1:20:23
Martin Scorsese and Nicholas Pileggi.
1:20:25
And I mean, where do you start here?
1:20:27
Because it's so dense with dialogue and block beats and the
1:20:31
characters come go and they're all integral to the story.
1:20:35
And like you said, Wesley Scorsese said he's the first
1:20:38
person to admit that there's no plot, just story. 3 hours, no
1:20:40
plot, a lot of action, a lot of story, no plot.
1:20:44
But what I think is really impressive are the plot or the
1:20:46
story threads that all come together in one like crescendo,
1:20:50
murder and overdoses and excess right at the end.
1:20:53
I think it's quite something like, and this is not the only
1:20:55
example of this, but Green's partner who starts a lawsuit
1:20:58
against him, but she gets popped by Nicki and that leads to
1:21:01
Green's squeaky clean image being tarnished, which then
1:21:04
leads to Ace in that he's the boss, which leads to the
1:21:07
country. Your calls brother-in-law asking
1:21:08
questions about whether he's got a game license.
1:21:11
And that thing leads to this thing and the other thing, and
1:21:13
it all leads to this inevitable finale.
1:21:15
Great story beats, really impressive writing, and it whips
1:21:18
along with such a pace, combined with the Scorsese direction as
1:21:22
well. And that's just one of them that
1:21:24
leads us to the finale. There are others like Nikki and
1:21:26
Ginger's affair, the consequences of which dovetail
1:21:28
with the plot strands. And I think really, it's
1:21:31
outstanding, right? And I don't think the dialogues
1:21:33
as iconic or as fun to quote or as memorable as Goodfellas, so
1:21:38
it loses a few marks in that respect.
1:21:40
But the structure of this, the screenplay and the story and how
1:21:43
they all connect and how they all come together at the end,
1:21:46
great. I feel like one of the major
1:21:48
themes of the film is of self destruction and failing
1:21:51
relationships. Ginger's greed and substance
1:21:53
excess becomes her undoing. And Aces downfall is that he
1:21:56
lets someone like Ginger into his life and he knows that she's
1:21:59
completely the opposite of him, still lets her in, getting away
1:22:02
with all sorts of stuff to bring him down.
1:22:04
And he can add into that the involvement of Nikki in the
1:22:06
operation, and he falls foul because he places himself right
1:22:09
in the middle of that crumbling relationship with Ace and
1:22:11
Ginger. And I think that's just great
1:22:13
intertwining of the characters for me.
1:22:15
Yeah. Yeah, for me, it's all about the
1:22:16
details. I can't think of another score,
1:22:20
says he found. That.
1:22:20
I think builds a world as detailed and as carefully as
1:22:24
this one does. We get at the beginning the
1:22:26
setup, explaining how the casinos work behind the scenes,
1:22:29
as mentioned for the links to the mob, the links to the teams
1:22:31
as union, bringing in all these different elements.
1:22:34
It's all interconnected. It's not just, you know, one
1:22:36
person behind the scenes rating it all in.
1:22:38
The money goes here and it goes then then it goes over there.
1:22:41
It's all just head spin and stuff.
1:22:42
And you can tell every bit of research has ended up on screen.
1:22:46
And I do truly feel at the end of three hours that I've kind of
1:22:49
black been held by the hand through this world in a way that
1:22:53
that's how that works. That's how this works.
1:22:55
And this is there's a bit that's not see, that's a bit that's
1:22:57
not. And this is, you know, all those
1:22:58
bits about the different job titles that is has to take on to
1:23:02
like avoid getting out of trouble.
1:23:04
All that stuff, all those details, all that stuff is
1:23:06
really, really good. I think in terms of themes, I
1:23:09
think it is probably fairly well tread.
1:23:11
So you have friends who become rivals and then there's a woman
1:23:14
caught in the middle. It's all very self-destructive
1:23:16
behavior, and one comes out of it in one piece.
1:23:18
So from that sense, I don't think there's anything truly
1:23:22
different or outstanding there. But it's the world that the
1:23:25
script gives you and the fact that it gives you this world,
1:23:28
which isn't a nice place to be at all.
1:23:30
And it's 3 hours with no one who is particularly likable.
1:23:33
But you're completely transfixed bias.
1:23:35
And I think because it achieves out at a script level, that's
1:23:38
why Scott says he can just basically just rub his hands and
1:23:40
go, right, I'm going to go to absolute town.
1:23:43
Yes, on a visual level, because the script is so so solid.
1:23:46
Yeah, I mean, I'm the same. I just love how linear this is
1:23:49
and it doesn't really deviate from the bar that it sets
1:23:52
itself. And I know there was 16 drafts
1:23:54
of the screenplay, which shows how much this was going
1:23:57
backwards and forwards and the fact that Palladia didn't even
1:24:00
finish the book until the film was started to shoot.
1:24:02
So it says the source is we're going to base a film on a book.
1:24:05
He said, oh, what's the book exam writing at the minute?
1:24:07
Say, right, so let's let's have a look.
1:24:09
So he kind of it's almost in tandem with writing the novel
1:24:12
and it is the screenplay. So I think it kind of goes hand
1:24:15
in hand. But the more research I've done
1:24:17
on this, the more that comes apparent that it is more fact
1:24:20
than fiction. It is actually actually exist in
1:24:23
the real world. And there's not really a world
1:24:25
to build, more of a world to show.
1:24:27
And I think they know exactly what they're doing.
1:24:29
I think it's absolute genius and very, very intricate and how
1:24:32
some of the facts are changed, but not changed so that the
1:24:35
unbelievable. But it doesn't indict anybody.
1:24:38
It doesn't basically open up court cases.
1:24:40
Again, it doesn't go so far as to kind of say, oh shit, we
1:24:43
didn't know about that. It's genius.
1:24:45
And how they've got all of that information cleared at all.
1:24:47
They know exactly what to change, how to change it, how to
1:24:50
make shotgun things really funny.
1:24:52
And I think from a writing point of view, it's a perfect example
1:24:54
of how to go from I started with nothing and I ended with
1:24:57
nothing. It goes full circle and brings
1:25:00
you back where you started. And he starts off, you know, as
1:25:03
a hustler and ends up as a hustler and doesn't really go
1:25:05
anywhere but shows that journey, which I think is what life is.
1:25:08
You come with nothing and you leave with nothing.
1:25:11
You know nothing, that you can't take anything with you and you
1:25:12
can't bring anything with you. It's what you do in the middle
1:25:14
of that. It's very, very entertaining and
1:25:16
I think the writing is absolutely top notch.
1:25:18
And you can tell there's so much confidence from these guys that
1:25:21
does come from the right and the Goodfellas and how successful
1:25:23
that was. That is a little bit more of a
1:25:25
template of how we're going to do it.
1:25:27
The voice overs are perfectly written.
1:25:29
I think some of the because some of the dialogue is improvised.
1:25:31
Again, how can that be so tight? How can it all fit together?
1:25:35
It's just because everybody is, no pun intended, but everybody
1:25:38
is on the same page every single step of the way.
1:25:42
And I think a lot of that is down to the right.
1:25:44
And you've got to have a blueprint, and it's an
1:25:45
incredible blueprint. Some of the details I couldn't
1:25:48
believe. I thought it was going to be
1:25:49
embellished, but pretty much everything happened.
1:25:52
Everything in the film happened in real life, which is it's mind
1:25:55
boggling. I was the Universal lawyers who
1:25:58
suggested changing the names to to avoid catching heat from the
1:26:00
mob. And also the hub of the
1:26:03
operation was Chicago, which is never referenced in the film.
1:26:05
It's changed to back home, Yeah. Back home sometime ago.
1:26:09
Yeah, back home sometime. Yeah.
1:26:10
Yeah. And in another way of covering
1:26:14
themselves, the credits say that the films adapted from a true
1:26:16
story as opposed to based on which allowed more creative
1:26:19
license. Despite this course is he said
1:26:21
that pretty much everything in the film is true.
1:26:23
And I mean, if the if the eye pop is true, then it's a fair
1:26:26
bet that the rest of it is true as well.
1:26:28
Yeah, absolutely. Also, the screenplay has an
1:26:30
abundance of swearing. The F word is used.
1:26:34
Do you know how many times? Oh, is it 400 and 64160?
1:26:39
You're almost. Yeah, it's 43435. 435 all right.
1:26:43
Which is on average every 24 seconds.
1:26:52
I'm what counts out here, not your fucking country clubs or
1:26:55
your fucking TV shows. And what the fuck are you doing
1:26:59
on TV anyhow? Move over to the soundtrack.
1:27:01
There are 76 songs in the film, and he's another average for
1:27:04
you. That's a different song playing
1:27:06
every two minutes, 20 seconds roughly.
1:27:09
Fucking hell. So, Westie, what do you think of
1:27:11
the soundtrack? Well, I mean, it's, I've been
1:27:15
listening to this for the last three weeks and I haven't
1:27:17
listened to any Christmas songs because this is just too good to
1:27:19
turn off. It's just one after the other.
1:27:23
And you just think Scorsese's taste is just so unbelievably
1:27:28
good. And it's not just the songs that
1:27:30
he's chosen, it's the fact that every song matches the scene
1:27:33
that it's in and gives it more depth.
1:27:35
And there's no, there's nothing tongue in cheek about that.
1:27:37
There's nothing like cheap about that.
1:27:40
It's just done. The directors have tried it and
1:27:43
you just go, oh, yeah, you've added that in just to add an
1:27:45
emotion or just to say, all right, I can't explain what this
1:27:48
scenes about. So he has a song to, you know
1:27:50
what this song is about. The scene I'm going to talk
1:27:52
about later on is when they're sitting in the car and they're
1:27:54
just having that discussion because they know that there's
1:27:57
wiretaps everywhere and go your own way is playing there when
1:28:00
she's left him and he's kind of go his own way.
1:28:02
And you just think that's so on the nose.
1:28:05
It's so fucking brilliantly, brilliantly done.
1:28:07
It's just like Tarantino does the same thing.
1:28:10
I think there's there's this, I think Reservoir Dog soundtrack,
1:28:13
the Pulp Fiction soundtrack, incredible.
1:28:14
The Zodiac soundtrack are incredible.
1:28:16
But this is easily top five of all time.
1:28:19
I mean, every song on here is necessary and amazing.
1:28:23
Just brilliant. Covers all genres, covers all
1:28:25
time. It's just fucking I mean the
1:28:28
money this must have cost Every song needs to be licensed the.
1:28:30
Seven-year. What 6 Rolling Stones tracks in
1:28:34
there? I won't give you shelter.
1:28:35
Which one? All of them, please.
1:28:40
So I would start which one all of them please.
1:28:42
It's just like and spoken word version, I want, you know,
1:28:45
instrumental version. And it's not over, it's not over
1:28:47
the top. It's just so brilliantly,
1:28:49
brilliantly done. It's an absolute lesson on how
1:28:52
you match visuals to popular music.
1:28:54
It's fucking masterpiece. The soundtrack, it's
1:28:57
unbelievable. It is.
1:28:59
It is just want to draw your attention back to something that
1:29:02
you said, Westie and everybody does it every time we talk, but
1:29:06
every time this is top five soundtracks.
1:29:08
We decided that we've decided that about 10 different times on
1:29:12
the different conversations and a new one pops in with a new
1:29:16
film that we cover now. This is in the top five.
1:29:22
It has to be because it's because we haven't watched them
1:29:24
for that long and you forget and then you're watching them.
1:29:26
You know what? But the point of this soundtrack
1:29:28
is it's it's subtle because a lot of them songs you don't hear
1:29:31
because there's voice over others dialogue and you'll only
1:29:33
hear snippets maybe like 10 seconds.
1:29:35
I mean, me, Shazam almost smashed when I was listening to
1:29:38
what it was just it was just constantly like pause the
1:29:43
dialogue and find a bit of the music where it kicks in.
1:29:45
You've got 5 seconds to Shazam it.
1:29:47
You should do that. Watch the film.
1:29:48
And if you can't Shazam a song, you have to have a shot.
1:29:50
You'd be absolutely moral in the first like 45 minutes.
1:29:55
It's impossible to do, but brilliantly played.
1:29:57
It's just there, it's just underneath.
1:29:58
It's genius. Yeah, it is.
1:30:00
It is amazing. Matt, what do you think?
1:30:03
Yeah, I completely agree with with every word he said there.
1:30:07
And the only thing at top five, the only thing I'd say is it's a
1:30:15
bit of a weird one for me because on one hand I'm just
1:30:18
incomplete. Or if Scorsese, his ability to
1:30:20
put all this together in his head, to write this film, to
1:30:24
direct this film, and also just to be composing that soundtrack
1:30:27
in a set as he goes along and to fit it all together.
1:30:30
This song goes into that, then this one's going to come in.
1:30:32
Then this version of that song you heard 10 minutes ago, it's
1:30:34
going to come in, but not that. Divorce satisfaction straight in
1:30:39
there. Yeah, yeah.
1:30:40
Exactly. I mean.
1:30:42
Yeah. All versions.
1:30:44
All versions. But like I say, this is very
1:30:47
personal thing, but for me it's almost the point where it
1:30:50
becomes overbearing. And I don't know if it's just
1:30:52
some kind of thing with like neurological thing with my
1:30:55
brain, but when the music is constant for so long and there's
1:30:59
like such a complicated plot going on at the same time, the
1:31:02
music almost becomes kind of wallpaper to me.
1:31:05
And I kind of end up tuning it out because I just like have to
1:31:07
focus on the visuals and the plot.
1:31:09
So listening to it in itself for me is the best experience of the
1:31:13
soundtrack. I mean individually loads of
1:31:15
amazing tracks, but just for me very personally to the point of
1:31:19
overkill where I can't really distinguish some songs from
1:31:22
others at some points. I know what you mean.
1:31:25
I think it's repeat view in that makes you notice.
1:31:28
Oh, that you didn't even notice that song was in there.
1:31:30
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
1:31:32
It's classic. Scorsese isn't No score, no
1:31:34
original music to speak of. All all pop songs of the era.
1:31:37
And six Stone songs, of course. Of course, as many Stone songs
1:31:42
as possible. Get them in there, no.
1:31:44
Score. No score just says it.
1:31:54
Boom boom, boom. That's great.
1:31:58
It's one of the things that keeps the film moving at the
1:32:01
pace that it does for me, along with the writing and direction.
1:32:03
They all form part of this like 100 mile an hour juggernaut to
1:32:07
just constantly move, constantly going, constantly getting your
1:32:10
head in a spin. I really love the moment where
1:32:13
Kiki hitch a cow. It takes them for 2 million
1:32:15
downstairs and free soap and towels upstairs, but they get
1:32:18
them back by fake. And the plane was on the Fritz.
1:32:21
And Rickles is awesome where he's in there better downhill
1:32:24
and up there. And then he's faking.
1:32:27
He's faking the fury and no other flights being available.
1:32:30
And then as the limo comes rolling back into the casino,
1:32:32
there's this incredible swoop and more angle shot in the pace.
1:32:35
As he's waiting at the hotel entrance, the in crowd by Adobe
1:32:38
Gray is playing. Amazing song, Amazing moment.
1:32:42
Possibly my favorite song in the film.
1:32:44
And then there's this in another incredible song.
1:32:46
Kicks in straight away as that scene cuts and it's a tight shot
1:32:49
of Nikki and Ace comes in behind him, but beside him and the kind
1:32:52
of like, side by side. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:32:55
And compared to what? By Eddie Harris and Les McCann.
1:32:57
God. Damn it, I'm trying to make it
1:33:00
real. Compared to what?
1:33:05
Ah. It's just absolutely incredible.
1:33:08
And it's a comparison of the characters in that shot.
1:33:10
Yeah. Genius.
1:33:12
Yeah. Great.
1:33:14
Matt, have you got a favorite moment like that?
1:33:16
Like music and visuals? Oh totally, it's one of the big
1:33:19
ones to 20th seize ginger on the casino for almost chips open
1:33:23
yeah and you have estranged by Mickey and Sylvie kicks in
1:33:26
because. That freeze frame.
1:33:27
Yeah, or the freeze frame. It's perfect.
1:33:30
I don't know if I've seen a more perfect freeze frame than that,
1:33:32
to be honest. It's so good.
1:33:34
But that guitar in draw, that is the sound of instant attraction,
1:33:38
isn't it? Like when you see someone, you
1:33:44
just think, wow, that's the sound.
1:33:45
Of course, off in your head, that's hard to begin.
1:33:48
You know, just a great example of that classic Scorsese needle
1:33:52
drop. And yeah, just want to mention
1:33:53
again, signal up with that freeze frame.
1:33:55
It's just astonishing. Yeah.
1:33:57
And that push in is on ACE. Probably the only time he has a
1:34:01
genuine smile on his face. Yeah.
1:34:03
Yeah, it is. Everything disappears in the
1:34:06
casino for years. It goes slow more after that
1:34:08
freeze for him and then she's she's the only person in the
1:34:10
casino, the only person in the world and like all of his
1:34:13
scrutiny is completely out of the window.
1:34:15
It all melts away and she completely disarms of West.
1:34:18
Have you got 1? I've got 70. 8 back-to-back, 2
1:34:26
heads on one of them. I've written so many and then
1:34:31
crossed the boat and then written another one, but the one
1:34:33
that stands out for me is just one of the coolest sequences in
1:34:36
the whole film. It's when Ace is figuring out
1:34:38
that the guys are cheating at Blackjack and you've got I Am
1:34:41
Superstitious by Jeff Beck on there.
1:34:43
Just that guitar line and then them little bits of wow.
1:34:46
It's just the space between the guitar and the vocal is perfect
1:34:50
for our Ace is figuring something out by seeing it and
1:34:53
then thinking about it and then speaking it.
1:34:54
So you've got like the guitars almost.
1:34:56
He's mine just going with the riff
1:35:09
and then it's like the the vocals come out and that's him.
1:35:11
Just explain it and this guy over.
1:35:13
He has left his cards too high and it's just fucking signal.
1:35:15
He wasn't so fucking greedy and you're just saying that could be
1:35:18
the lyrics to this song. It's just it's that good.
1:35:21
It's just a perfect moment. And all the shots that are just
1:35:23
combining, the overhead shot, the close-ups of the cards, the
1:35:27
kind of the when it goes to his leg and you say you're tapping
1:35:29
in the Morse cord, It's just that whole sequence is
1:35:32
fantastic. Put that song over the top and
1:35:34
it's just ice cold. It's so fucking cool.
1:35:38
It is What a song. Great early vocal by Rod Stewart
1:35:41
in that song as well. Raspy voice.
1:35:44
Fantastic. Just that guitar line from Jeff
1:35:46
Beck. It's just.
1:35:47
Outrageous. That's great.
1:35:49
Just damn little. Just fucking love it.
1:35:51
Brilliant. Great.
1:35:52
So great writing and music as you would expect from a Scorsese
1:35:55
film, but credit should also go to the production design of Rita
1:35:58
Rayak, Thelma Schoolmakers editing and of course Robert
1:36:01
Richardson's amazingly bright cinematography.
1:36:05
Oh indeed, the end. Moving into the final act, Ace
1:36:14
tries to legitimize his reputation by starring in his
1:36:16
own talk show, but things out of his control threaten everything.
1:36:20
Ginger takes Amy shopping in Beverly Hills, but when Sam
1:36:22
calls the hotel, he finds out that Mister and Mrs. Rothstein
1:36:25
have both checked out. And we're looking at the
1:36:27
sequence that starts with Ginger and Amy missing and ends with
1:36:29
Ace throwing Ginger out of the house.
1:36:31
And I want to start us off by talking about Jimmy Woods here
1:36:35
and in general. Really.
1:36:36
About time. About time.
1:36:38
I mean, I really, I really got a sauce for James was and I know
1:36:41
like, he's like poison now. Nobody will touch him and he's
1:36:45
an absolute brick. But in the 80s and 90s I did
1:36:49
like him. And I mean, he's just such a
1:36:50
slimeball here with that pimp stash.
1:36:53
Yeah. Incredible, that look and the
1:36:55
costume design perfect for the character.
1:36:57
And he does get what's coming, room in the park and a lot of
1:36:59
the restaurant, and that's satisfying, but still quite
1:37:02
brutal. And I think what makes it
1:37:04
difficult to watch is Stones performance in that Ginger's
1:37:07
hysterical, which I think makes all the difference.
1:37:09
She's screaming and shouting. But this scene in particular,
1:37:11
Woods, is just hilarious. He's got that cream, what looks
1:37:15
like leather suit on. Amazing.
1:37:19
I think Stone's great in this scene as well.
1:37:21
She really sells the emotion, like the on the edge wreck that
1:37:24
she's become. But Lester couldn't give a shit.
1:37:26
He's saying that she's yakking, yakking, yakking, yakking, doing
1:37:29
all this, snapping his hands together.
1:37:31
He also says that he's going to send Amy to Bolivia in a box.
1:37:35
Really, really harsh, but really funny.
1:37:39
Woods heard that Scorsese was interested in working with him,
1:37:41
and he sent him a message about his availability and at Read
1:37:44
anytime, any place, any part, any fee.
1:37:47
Amazing. The thing all of about this
1:37:50
sequence is you introduce to Ginger and Ace's daughter Amy
1:37:53
here, and I just think she's absolutely hilarious.
1:37:57
She's in the middle of a really violent film.
1:37:59
She shares all the scenes with this despicable piece of shit
1:38:02
and Leicester and all she does is have the time of her life by
1:38:06
winding them up. That's his life, definitely.
1:38:09
Has his life. He is so easily triggered.
1:38:11
All she does is stick a tongue out at him and he gets
1:38:14
ridiculously over the top angry and like his reaction to when
1:38:18
she says she wants to go see the Elephant Man.
1:38:20
Just so. Amazing.
1:38:26
Absolutely love that. No going to see any fucking
1:38:28
elephants. We're going to Europe.
1:38:29
Let the adults talk. It's just why is he that angry
1:38:34
at a child? Also said just want to go see
1:38:36
the Elephant Man. He's not even listening.
1:38:39
Is he an elephant? And he kicks off about it.
1:38:43
Doesn't get any fucking elephants.
1:38:45
That smack your face don't give me more shit.
1:38:48
It's. Horrible.
1:38:52
But the best bit by far in this section, the funniest bit, is
1:38:55
when Ginger's on the phone to Ace and in the background you
1:38:57
can see Amy's just got like a little hand back with her and
1:39:00
she's just like batting it off his knee.
1:39:02
She's not like Wallop promoted. It's pretty gentle stuff.
1:39:05
But again, he's just furious. Like.
1:39:08
Absolutely kicking off. She started it.
1:39:10
She started it. And it's like that line.
1:39:12
You just sit there like I'm sending this kid to oblivion in
1:39:14
a fucking box. I mean, his reaction to this
1:39:17
little kid just constantly winding him up, just it's so
1:39:21
fucking funny. And it's the same and it's the
1:39:24
same again. She's on the phone later on in
1:39:26
there in the car behind it and she's just prodding him in the
1:39:28
face. He's like trying to batter go
1:39:31
away. It shouldn't work like this bit
1:39:33
should be like the first thing you could, but it's it's
1:39:35
absolutely side spitting with me.
1:39:37
Absolutely love this bit create kit.
1:39:39
Which is great that, but it's like you're not driving.
1:39:42
Get the passenger seat. You drive because you're driving
1:39:44
me fucking crazy. The actress playing Amy, she was
1:39:51
called Erica Vonteig, and Sharon Stone encouraged her to annoy
1:39:55
Woods all the time. Any opportunity.
1:39:57
She got it. So obviously that accounts for
1:40:00
everything in the film, everything you've just said,
1:40:02
Matt. Brilliant.
1:40:04
The thing is went as well James Woods is that he was shooting
1:40:07
another film at the same time as this and he got all of his
1:40:10
scenes done. He shot everything in 2 days.
1:40:14
Everything. She was just the scourge of him
1:40:17
for two days, prodding, hitting. Him on the knees were a little
1:40:21
back. Well, I live in this part as
1:40:25
well. It's moving away from Leicester
1:40:27
and Ginger for a little while. And it goes back to when she
1:40:29
spoke to Nicki. And he goes back to speak to Ace
1:40:32
about the whole situation, tries to convince him to bring her
1:40:34
back and bring the kid back. Yeah.
1:40:36
And that's so beautifully done. Just from the way Nicki walks up
1:40:39
to the glass and just taps the ring so lightly.
1:40:42
Oh yeah. It's just to get his attention.
1:40:44
Just such a lovely sort of performance.
1:40:45
Then they have to go in the garage because obviously they
1:40:47
don't know who's listening to turn the radio on.
1:40:49
Like I said before, it's go your own way.
1:40:51
She's got her own way. He could go his.
1:40:53
And I love this sequence because this is one of the few
1:40:56
signatures. There's a scene in the desert
1:40:58
which is obviously a stand out, but this for me is where De Niro
1:41:01
and Pesci really, really work because you can tell this
1:41:03
dialogue is pretty much improvised from start to finish.
1:41:07
They know. They know what each other's
1:41:08
motivations isn't. De Niro just constantly saying I
1:41:10
must be fucking crazy, I must be crazy, and he's just not
1:41:13
listening at all. And Nikki thinks he's got the
1:41:15
other hand. He knows what he's doing.
1:41:16
He's in control of it. Why didn't you come to me?
1:41:18
This is family, not business, you know?
1:41:20
So he's sure he's showing his sensitive side, and
1:41:23
unfortunately, Ace cannot see it because his head's in a
1:41:25
different place. If he'd saw the sensitive side
1:41:27
that Mickey's trying to portray here, he might just think,
1:41:29
actually, yeah, I can see what he's doing.
1:41:31
I can emotionally get one up on him, but Nick, he's doing that
1:41:34
when Ace is at his lowest emotionally.
1:41:36
And I think that's really clever from Scorsese do that and just
1:41:39
that you can lower his guard when he knows that Ace God is
1:41:42
right down. Just try to told him, but it's
1:41:45
just the fact that it doesn't really work.
1:41:46
And then he gets on the phone. He just wants me back.
1:41:49
She shouldn't come by herself. And it's all just kind of
1:41:52
wrapped up in this really great little sequence.
1:41:54
And I just love the way that that's done in the garage, in
1:41:56
the car and it just keeps you on the edge.
1:41:59
It's just fantastic, fantastic sequence.
1:42:01
I love that. When Ginger comes back she's so
1:42:03
broken and manipulative that she she manages to work worm her way
1:42:06
back in and his brings her back. But it's not without questioning
1:42:09
their at at dinner and he's really turning the screw and
1:42:12
trying to account for where the money went. 25 grand on three
1:42:15
suits. Yeah, he wants every single
1:42:17
dollar. Yeah, everything.
1:42:20
And that leads to that almighty fight where he drags her out of
1:42:23
the house. It's it's tough to watch, but
1:42:24
still she manages to warm her way back in afterwards when she
1:42:28
comes back to the comes back to the house and she gets into bed.
1:42:31
Take this stiff. And pound it up your fucking
1:42:34
ass. Hit me again.
1:42:41
Take this one and stick it up your sister's ass.
1:42:44
Hit me again. So after this scene, Ginger and
1:42:46
Nikki sleep together, which causes great concern back home
1:42:49
and with me. Of course.
1:42:52
Now Sam is fighting against both of them, together and
1:42:54
individually. And we're looking at the
1:42:56
sequence that starts with Ginger showing up at home, ramming the
1:42:59
car onto the driveway, and ends with Nikki and Dominic getting
1:43:01
popped. And I want to start off by
1:43:03
talking about the pandemonium that Ginger creates outside the
1:43:06
house. She starts off on A10 here,
1:43:09
ramming the car in his car, screaming and swearing hi is a
1:43:13
kite with that beige leather two piece on and she's screaming.
1:43:17
I am Nikki Santoro, he's my new sponsor.
1:43:19
She's completely lost it. Yeah, yeah.
1:43:22
But I think it's a pretty incredible performance from
1:43:24
Storm because she reinforces how unpredictable and out of control
1:43:28
Ginger is, and she's absolutely grotesque.
1:43:31
And compare that scene with the first one at the craps table.
1:43:34
She's a different person. And I think it takes a really
1:43:37
great performance to believe that Ginger that were introduced
1:43:40
to in the casino can get to this place outside the house where
1:43:43
she's out of control, scamming and scheming her way through
1:43:45
everything and sweet talk and every man that she comes across
1:43:48
to to divert their attention. Great.
1:43:51
And the deputies that sure. But Sam's house here at the
1:43:53
Ginger hits the car. Real Vegas deputies who work in
1:43:56
a security on the set. Yeah, you can tell that they
1:43:59
haven't got much dialogue. They say how you been keeping?
1:44:01
Yeah, I'm fine. You know, I'm OK.
1:44:04
My wife's pregnant, yeah. Well if I was just so angry
1:44:09
she's like literally ripping plants out of the garden.
1:44:13
Screaming at everything. Doesn't the newest thing that
1:44:16
comes down some like shrubs? Just going to throw some shrubs
1:44:19
at him? Great.
1:44:21
Love it when the the retaliation here from aces and he just rings
1:44:24
up and it's just like it's just going to come there.
1:44:26
She can do watch it and take everything.
1:44:27
No rap coming down and the phone goes down and then they get into
1:44:29
the mess of the car. That's hilarious.
1:44:31
Fucked and you can hear them coming from like a mile away and
1:44:36
she's like no. And they just got like turn up
1:44:38
and that run in and just this to me is where Ace has completely
1:44:41
lost his power, where he realizes she's got one over on
1:44:44
him. That trust was completely
1:44:46
misjudged. There's nothing he can do.
1:44:48
He's just stood. They said can you not get off of
1:44:50
speeding? Can you not do this?
1:44:51
He's careful to not get caught doing any of the bad things.
1:44:54
And then she's done the worst possible thing to him, but it's
1:44:57
an emotional thing. It's nothing that you can take
1:44:59
the court and say she broke me hard.
1:45:01
It's just it's just evident in his face.
1:45:04
And then she leaves and you just think, oh, fucking hell, she's
1:45:06
gotten away. And then when the FBI pull her
1:45:08
over, I just think that's a fantastic moment for the
1:45:11
audience because you're just like, right, just went too far.
1:45:13
Now she's been caught. She has a witness just going to
1:45:16
give evidence. It's fine.
1:45:17
But it's Stones performance here when she gets out of the car and
1:45:20
she's like, I was just trying to leave.
1:45:22
Yeah, she's broken. Done.
1:45:24
She's absolutely broken and the camera just stays far away
1:45:27
enough for us to see that. And just this whole melee of
1:45:31
just absolute crazy violence that she's thrown at it to try
1:45:34
and get away, it doesn't work. And she can't hustle anymore.
1:45:38
And she knows that you can't. She's gone too far.
1:45:40
And I think just from that little sequence where you just
1:45:42
that complete lack of power from everyone who's had so much power
1:45:46
throughout the film. And that's where real life
1:45:48
creeps in and love and trust and relationships fall apart.
1:45:52
No matter how much money you've got or where you're trying to
1:45:54
run away to, it's always going to find it.
1:45:56
And that's in what, 4 minutes? Fucking brilliant.
1:45:59
Yeah. There's a bit now I find really
1:46:01
sad, which is when she tries to give the money to the cop and
1:46:04
she says, oh, you've been so nice, Yeah.
1:46:06
Yeah, yeah. It's it's a heartbreak and I so
1:46:09
just sells you everything you need to know about her and how
1:46:12
she views like what's important. If someone's been nice to or
1:46:15
I'll have to give them money, I'll.
1:46:16
Give them thousands of pounds. Yeah, yeah, well, that's just
1:46:20
nice to people being nice to her.
1:46:22
That's the point, yeah. And I think this is where that
1:46:24
strand, what comes out, Matt, that we were talking about at
1:46:27
the top, where we do feel for for Ginger and we do feel sorry
1:46:31
for her demise, is 1/2 breaker. Yeah.
1:46:34
But what I do find funny is that that dragon sound of metal, like
1:46:38
you said, Wesley, that you can, you can hear like 1,000,000
1:46:41
miles away and it pulls up to the bank.
1:46:43
And Ginger's reaction is priceless.
1:46:45
It's like a cartoon, like really deep inhale of breath.
1:46:51
They're fantastic. I want to get back to Nikki
1:46:56
though, because obviously he meets this end here, but before
1:46:58
that happens, you've got the character Piscardo, who we
1:47:01
talked about before, whose unintentionally gave the whole
1:47:03
game away through this complaints.
1:47:05
Oh. Yeah, again, and absolutely
1:47:09
darkly hilarious, won't he? Because literally just before he
1:47:12
kills over dead from a heart attack, Nikki is in full
1:47:14
voiceover and he's just called him a fucking balloon head.
1:47:17
And then he drops dead. And I think the timing about the
1:47:21
fucking balloon head, boom, it's the flawed dead.
1:47:24
Really, really funny. But then you get that immediate
1:47:28
contrast from that, a big laugh. And then what happens to Nikki
1:47:31
and Dominic? Because fucking hell, this awful
1:47:34
scoss easy makes you feel this. I mean, the fact that Frankie
1:47:37
turns on him is horrendous enough because Frankie's been
1:47:39
his right hand man throughout the entire film.
1:47:42
But having said that, I don't think it's unexpected because
1:47:44
Frankie is just fucking horrendous.
1:47:46
He's a horrendous person, horrible in this film.
1:47:48
But that violence, I mean, the sound of those bats just lean
1:47:52
into Dominic over and over again.
1:47:55
And the fact that Dominic just before the thorn in that pit, he
1:47:57
just looks like a big, huge lump of tender eyes meat, tender
1:48:02
eyes, veal. And.
1:48:07
And every time you get that shot where they've been thrown into
1:48:10
the pit and they're thrown the soil of them, you can see
1:48:12
they're still breathing. It just makes me sure that every
1:48:15
time it's just ugly, ugly, horrendous.
1:48:17
What happens? But again though Casino, it's a
1:48:20
surprisingly funny film because I always forget Nikki is in full
1:48:23
voice over mode when this happens to him and he interrupts
1:48:26
his own voice over when he first gets hit with the fat.
1:48:29
You get this really comical. It stops.
1:48:33
That's it. Stops mids and.
1:48:35
Brilliant. You know, I don't think I've
1:48:36
ever seen that in the film before.
1:48:37
The character interrupt known voiceover like that.
1:48:40
Now, I've never seen someone like get hit and then that's the
1:48:42
end of the voiceover for the rest of the film.
1:48:44
But yeah, that shot Nikki when they've thrown the the lime over
1:48:48
him and just did the dirt goes on top of him.
1:48:49
But that was an animatronic, wasn't it?
1:48:51
It wasn't actually wasn't actually Pesci in there.
1:48:53
But I mean, you kind of tell like it's fantastic, you know,
1:48:56
it's. Brilliant.
1:48:56
It's done. It's Nikki breaking down here
1:48:58
when Dominic's getting lushed and he's just certainly he's not
1:49:02
scared for himself really. I think he's genuinely
1:49:04
heartbroken for what he's saying.
1:49:06
Disgusting. And not as I mean, it's not as
1:49:08
bad as what actually happened to them, which is very similar to
1:49:12
what happened in Goodfellas. But there wasn't any bats
1:49:14
involved. Apparently they were just kicked
1:49:16
and punched until they died and then buried out in the
1:49:19
cornfield. And then there's a farmer who
1:49:20
found them said he he thought someone had buried a deer and
1:49:23
there was two of them like there were that popped.
1:49:25
So that was to identify the matter of fucking bad it was.
1:49:29
But like, I mean, this is bad. I feel sick after I watch this.
1:49:32
And I think it's probably one of the reasons why casino is hard
1:49:36
to watch because you get to such a point you to score.
1:49:43
Frank Vincent snarl. When he's smacking Dominic,
1:49:46
tough guy, he's smacking him horrible.
1:49:49
Ends up hitting with two bats at the same time as well.
1:49:52
He's just sneaking up behind Nikki and you see him come from
1:49:54
the other side of the car and you just think oh fuck.
1:49:56
But because the voice overs there, yeah, it just takes your
1:49:59
attention away. Then all of a sudden it's bump.
1:50:01
It's brilliant. The real person, that's Nikki
1:50:04
Santoro, is based on the Ant, just like in Goodfellas, he
1:50:06
thought he was being made, but he got whacked instead in that,
1:50:09
in that Chicago basement that you mentioned, Westie.
1:50:11
Yeah, horrible. So we've got our final Patreon
1:50:14
question here, and this one is from Anthony Hodgson.
1:50:17
Hello, Anthony. Hello.
1:50:18
Anthony, Anthony, he says at the end of casino.
1:50:22
I feel genuinely sorry for Nicky and his brother and what they go
1:50:25
through, considering they're both a pair of absolute bastards
1:50:28
who've done horrendous things and things definitely worse than
1:50:31
this to others. My question is, are there any
1:50:33
baddies that the ATRM guys feel sorry for when they finally get
1:50:37
their comeuppance? Matt, have you got an answer?
1:50:40
I have, yeah. Really good question this I
1:50:43
thought really good one. The one I've gone for is Annie
1:50:47
Wilkes, played by Kathy Bates and Misery, because there's no
1:50:51
doubt she's an absolute psycho in that film.
1:50:53
But there's always Lee's little hints throughout the film as to
1:50:56
what a miserable life she's had. There's one particular scene in
1:51:00
that, if you remember when she comes to see James car at night,
1:51:02
it's there's a Thunder song going outside.
1:51:05
You can see she's in like complete depths of depression,
1:51:08
and I just think for someone to be that emotionally involved
1:51:11
with a completely fictional character in a series of boost
1:51:14
like she is in Misery, I think there's something really, really
1:51:17
tragic about that. So yeah, by the end of the film,
1:51:19
I think, you know, her comeuppance totally deserved
1:51:21
100% one James Conde Keller and get out of there.
1:51:24
But I definitely have big flashes of sympathy for
1:51:28
throughout that film. Really.
1:51:29
Well, I can't stand that character.
1:51:31
I like to. See how I get it either?
1:51:33
I'm not with you on that at all. That character, man.
1:51:38
Wesley, have you got 1? I've got 9.
1:51:43
All set in stone. Yeah, no, actually I've got it.
1:51:47
It depends because some of them you just, is it feeling sorry
1:51:51
for them or is it just a tragic end?
1:51:52
I mean, Darth Vader is a massive 1 that comes around full circle.
1:51:56
He's a bad guy, but was he really from the start?
1:51:58
Roy Batty in Blade Runner, I kind of feel sorry for at the
1:52:01
end. Side Parish in One Hour Photo,
1:52:04
McCauley and Heath De Niro's character.
1:52:06
Feel for that guy. Jerry Lundergaard and Fargo,
1:52:09
That guy. Yeah, great.
1:52:11
It was his deal. Yeah, Golem.
1:52:14
I feel sorry for the end of Lord of the Rings and William Foster,
1:52:18
who was played by Michael Douglas and Fallen Down.
1:52:20
I really feel for that guy. Defence.
1:52:23
Yeah, yeah, Defence. Great.
1:52:25
The one that spanked the mind immediately for me was Roy Batty
1:52:28
in Blade Runner. I don't think I've ever done
1:52:31
such a big 180 after his tease in the rain speech.
1:52:34
Magical stuff. Yeah, that's unbelievable.
1:52:36
Yeah. Couple of that you didn't
1:52:38
mention Harvey Dent in The Dark Knight when he's in that in that
1:52:42
hospital bed. Tommy from Goodfellas and also
1:52:46
Ginger in this film the same thing.
1:52:49
I hate that character all the way through.
1:52:51
And then like we said, there's that flash, which which does
1:52:54
make her a sympathetic character.
1:52:56
Great question, Anthony. Thank you very much.
1:52:58
Yes, nice one. So in the end, after everyone is
1:53:01
bumped off, Ace winds up right back where he started.
1:53:04
He could still pick winners, and he could still make all kinds of
1:53:06
money for people back home. And why mess up a good thing?
1:53:10
And that's that. Reception and awards.
1:53:18
Despite being called Goodfellas in the desert with unfavorable
1:53:20
comparisons to Scorsese's earlier film, Casino was a hit
1:53:24
at the box office. On a $50 million budget, it
1:53:26
returned 110 million. Seems low, but for a three hour
1:53:30
R rated film, it's still pretty good.
1:53:32
Yeah, it was a modest success on the awards circuit.
1:53:35
Scorsese was Golden Globe nominated for best Director, but
1:53:38
it was Sharon Stone that grabbed the limelight.
1:53:40
She won a Golden Globe for a performance and was Oscar
1:53:43
nominated, but lost out two. I'd be amazed if you've got to
1:53:46
put Matt, I think you've got the best chance because you sorry,
1:53:51
Wesley, but you, you've got a, you've got a knack for this kind
1:53:53
of thing. You're absolutely right.
1:53:55
I've got a fucking clue. I mean, I'd be amazed if you've
1:53:59
got a Matt. I think it's either going to be
1:54:04
Susan Sarandon for Dead Man Walking or Kristen's got Thomas
1:54:09
with English Patient. And which one are you going for?
1:54:11
I'll go for Susan Sarandon. Jesus Christ, Matt.
1:54:15
It's all right. You're like Rain Man, the Rain
1:54:17
Man of the Oscars. Well done.
1:54:20
That's the. Subject of mastermind.
1:54:24
Rain Man of the Oscars, here he is. 387291291.
1:54:30
Excellent driver as well I imagine man.
1:54:33
Yeah. I'm good driver, yeah.
1:54:35
That's how to get home for Jeopardy.
1:54:40
Critics like the film as well. Empire gave the film 5 out of
1:54:43
five and summarized by saying it may not be Scorsese's greatest
1:54:46
work, but this guy feeling a little off color is still far,
1:54:49
far better than most people on Fight and Fit for.
1:54:52
It only gets more impressive as time goes on.
1:54:55
Roger Ebert gave the film. What do you think, fellas?
1:54:58
Ebert he didn't he three, I think.
1:55:02
I think he'd give a full marks. Top marks four out of four.
1:55:06
He said that Martin Scorsese's fascinating new film knows a lot
1:55:09
about the Matthews relationship with Las Vegas.
1:55:11
Like The Godfather, it makes us feel like eavesdroppers in a
1:55:14
very secret place. Very nice.
1:55:17
I'm not the rain manner of reviews though.
1:55:18
If I fucking got that right, don't I praise where it's
1:55:22
fucking due? That's fine.
1:55:23
That's fine. Do you really want to be
1:55:27
referred to as the Rain Man of reviews?
1:55:30
Not really. Not really.
1:55:36
Gene Siskel was less than impressed.
1:55:38
He said the film looks great, is memorably acted but breaks no
1:55:42
new ground for Scorsese or his actors and therefore, despite
1:55:45
its pyrotechnics, is a bit of a let down all.
1:55:47
Right. Shame, shame.
1:55:49
Disagree. Well, yeah, I think it just
1:55:52
becomes in the wake so close to Goodfellas that people were a
1:55:54
bit blinded by that. At that time, yeah.
1:55:58
And now Casino has 79% on Rotten Tomatoes and a score of 8.2 out
1:56:01
of 10 on IMDb. With the passage of time, it has
1:56:04
emerged from the shadow of its predecessor and has a very
1:56:07
positive reputation, with some even saying that it eclipses
1:56:10
Goodfellas. Right, all the right movies
1:56:15
ranking. We're calling time on casino,
1:56:19
but not before we do our now world famous, all the right
1:56:23
movies ranking, well famous. Yeah, this is where we all
1:56:27
summarize and give the film a score out of 10.
1:56:29
So Matt, would you like to take this first?
1:56:31
Yes, sure would. There's so many reasons I think
1:56:36
this film shouldn't work. Three hours long, nobody to
1:56:39
really root for, get behind, and the amount of detail is just
1:56:42
overpowering at times. But it is an example of a film
1:56:46
where only one person could have pulled it off.
1:56:48
And it's Scorsese. The way he executes all his
1:56:51
talents here, his style, it's incredible.
1:56:53
But if all this film had was style, I don't think we'd be
1:56:56
talking about it, to be honest, because it wouldn't be half the
1:56:58
film it is. I think there's genuinely
1:57:00
interesting explorations of greed and morality and loyalty
1:57:03
here as well. And I think it's 'cause he takes
1:57:05
all that and he just ramps it up to this almost operatic level of
1:57:09
intensity at times. And as I've said a few times, we
1:57:12
visit in this 234 times. However many times it's been
1:57:16
last few weeks, I've forgotten how funny it is in very, very
1:57:18
dark way. But it is quite hilarious
1:57:20
throughout. And obviously we've all said
1:57:22
throughout, this film doesn't really escape the shadow of
1:57:24
Goodfellas or didn't for a long time.
1:57:27
But I honestly believe if you could have flipped these two
1:57:29
films around in terms of when they released, I think
1:57:31
Goodfellas would still be highly rated.
1:57:33
But I do wonder how many people would think it's a slightly
1:57:36
shallow version of why you get in Casino.
1:57:38
Good point and Good Fellows is undoubtedly iconic.
1:57:42
It's a fantastic film. But after really thinking about
1:57:45
it, I am going to be one of those people.
1:57:46
I do think Casino is the slightly better film.
1:57:49
I think it's I think it's more, I think it's more ambitious, I
1:57:53
think it's got more to see and I think it's more ambiguous.
1:57:56
It does suffer from Ginger not being particularly well written.
1:57:59
Some of the themes are a bit of a retread.
1:58:01
What's course is he has done before?
1:58:03
So it's just shy of being 1 of Scorsese's best, but it's
1:58:06
getting a 9.5 for me. Oh wow, Big Matt Ebert.
1:58:15
So Matt, from that, would you then be saying that you're given
1:58:18
good fellow, I don't want to push you in a corner here, but
1:58:20
it is Goodfellas and nine out nine on 10 for you then yes,
1:58:23
Wow, wow, wow, wow. Fantastic controversial views.
1:58:27
You heard it here first. Well, that's what people are
1:58:29
tuning in for. It is It is your controversial
1:58:32
views, the Rain Man of controversial views.
1:58:38
If that catches on, I'm going to fucking kill you.
1:58:40
I. Want that to catch on?
1:58:46
Don't worry, I'll help. OK, let's see you go, You go.
1:59:02
I apologize in advance of that happening, Matt.
1:59:07
Oh well, how can I follow on from the Rain Man of summaries?
1:59:11
So look, there's no denying it. There's only one reason we're
1:59:18
talking about these films on here is because the great, great
1:59:20
films, and they are culturally impactful and they are fucking
1:59:22
incredibly well made pieces of work, most of them.
1:59:26
And Casino is no exception. It's a phenomenal film.
1:59:29
There's no question about it. Everything about it is first
1:59:31
class. The direction, the art in the
1:59:33
cinematography, the production design, the costume design that
1:59:35
we've all spoken about so highly all the way through.
1:59:38
I don't think we've found many things that have been wrong with
1:59:40
it to comment on that and say actually, yeah, that's that's
1:59:42
not a standard. That's sort of the scratch.
1:59:45
It's that that I have the problem with.
1:59:47
I think it's just the pace is just unrelenting and it's you,
1:59:51
you set a bar and you have to keep up with it.
1:59:54
And it's one of them films that you really need to be in the
1:59:56
mood to watch because it is going to grab you by the lapels
2:00:00
and just pull you through it. And if you're not in the mood
2:00:02
for it, it can be quite hard to sit through.
2:00:05
It can be a tough watch. It can be like, it's just, it's
2:00:08
like eating far too much rich food.
2:00:10
Then you're just like, actually I seen a glass of water like
2:00:12
every 45 minutes. Because that's what Goodfellas
2:00:15
is for me. It's just, you know, it's it has
2:00:17
got them different sections where it does have a pace and it
2:00:20
does have more of a plot and it does slow down and it does have
2:00:24
a payoff. This to me just takes you back
2:00:26
where you started. And then when you finish this
2:00:28
film, I don't think you feel as good as when you've started
2:00:30
watching it. I don't think it has a happy
2:00:31
ending. Goodfellas doesn't necessarily
2:00:33
have a happy ending, but it has a resolution.
2:00:36
This doesn't. It feels like you've been pulled
2:00:38
through the ringer and you're left a little bit cold and a
2:00:40
little bit empty at the end. For what you have been through,
2:00:43
it's an incredibly well made film.
2:00:44
It's got incredible confidence, but did the fact that Goodfellas
2:00:48
for me always sits there as one of the best films I've ever seen
2:00:52
and it's an easy 10 for me. This isn't quite up there just
2:00:55
because it's almost too good of itself and it just needed just
2:01:00
to take its foot off the gas for about 20 minutes and it would
2:01:04
have been up there with Goodfellas I think.
2:01:06
So for that reason it loses .5. So it's a 9.5 for me.
2:01:10
Wow, still big. Yeah.
2:01:13
Well, for me, I mean, where, where to start?
2:01:16
The film's hugely enjoyable experience.
2:01:19
And like you said, Westie, it's exhausted in some respects when
2:01:24
you get to the end of it. I got to the end of it last
2:01:26
night having really watched and really concentrated on it.
2:01:29
And it's it's, I had to take, I had to take a break from
2:01:32
everything and just just decompress.
2:01:36
Just sit in the shower. Cold shower.
2:01:40
Just crying. It just doesn't come up for
2:01:42
breath. It starts at 100 mile an hour
2:01:44
and doesn't slow down for three hours of runtime.
2:01:46
You would think it would sag, and I was expecting him to sag
2:01:48
when I came to revisit it, and it just doesn't.
2:01:50
There are some really great performances and obviously
2:01:52
Scorsese tearing through Vegas with his incredible flair, but
2:01:56
try as I might, it's impossible not to compare this to
2:01:58
Goodfellas. So by that measure, it doesn't
2:02:00
have the rewatch ability of Goodfellas.
2:02:02
The dialogue isn't as memorable for me and like I've been
2:02:05
saying, the violence is way over the top in certain scenes and
2:02:10
that doesn't encourage repeat viewings either.
2:02:12
So for those reasons, I'm going to take a point off and I'm
2:02:15
giving Casino a nine out of 10. Full point.
2:02:18
All right, cool. Full point compared to the other
2:02:21
films in his Canon as well and and there are quite a few that I
2:02:25
prefer outside of this. Oh yeah, definitely, yeah.
2:02:28
Yeah, fair enough. Our 4th and final score for
2:02:30
Casino comes from our Patreon supporters.
2:02:33
Big shout out to those great guys and gals.
2:02:35
Yes, hi guys. They've been voting and I've got
2:02:39
their scores right here, but for some comments and they all
2:02:42
follow the same theme, unsurprisingly, Dean Jones said.
2:02:46
I don't bind this myth that this is better than Goodfellas.
2:02:49
Are you listening to this man? Yes ma'am, instantly
2:02:53
disregarding it. Really belittle and call that a
2:02:58
myth like. It's not Santa Claus.
2:03:06
Oh, it scores easy, all the presents down the chimney in
2:03:08
three hours. Well, he fucking does it, I'll
2:03:12
be honest. But Dean says it's still a great
2:03:19
film with amazing performances. A solid 9.
2:03:22
Fair enough. Still a big score, and Kenny
2:03:24
Morrison said it suffers from comparisons to Goodfellas, but
2:03:28
it's still miles ahead of most others in the gangster genre.
2:03:31
A nine out of 10, Karim Halliwell said.
2:03:34
I don't think the obvious comparisons to Goodfellas should
2:03:36
detract from exactly what it is one of the greatest gangster
2:03:39
films of all time. 10 out of 10. Big 10.
2:03:43
Boom, big scores. So averaging all the scores from
2:03:47
our parents casino got. What do you think out of 10
2:03:50
fellas? 9. 9. 9.5. 9.5 Westie in one The
2:03:57
Rain Man of Patreon scores. Half I would have I would like
2:04:05
to be in the Sam Rofdein of of, you know, keep it relevant.
2:04:10
So with that was in the Patreon scores combined, that leaves
2:04:13
Casino with a very tasty 37.5 out of 40, a very big score.
2:04:18
In comparison, when we covered Goodfellas on the podcast, that
2:04:21
came out with a 39.5 out of 40. Right, that's fair.
2:04:25
That seems fair to me. Does seem fair.
2:04:27
Yeah. Not to matter.
2:04:28
Furious. No.
2:04:29
That's fine. Quietly seething.
2:04:31
Just like it's rough. Well, the planes has landed in
2:04:35
the backyard so I've got that to deal with first and we'll get
2:04:39
around to correcting everyone's scores.
2:04:42
You can go to alltherightmovies.com/leaderboard
2:04:45
to see where Casino ranks in amongst all the other films that
2:04:47
we've covered so far on the podcast.
2:04:49
As mentioned, you can sign up to be an ATR and Patreon supporter.
2:04:52
By visiting patreon.com/all the Right Movies, you get access to
2:04:56
all those podcasts that we mentioned at the top, have a say
2:04:58
in what films that we cover and the score that they get as well.
2:05:01
So loads to keep you busy. Yeah.
2:05:04
Join us again and all the right movies where in two weeks John
2:05:07
Westie MPI will be talking about the end of the century game
2:05:10
changer, The Matrix. Looking forward to that one,
2:05:12
Westie. I am, I'm looking forward to get
2:05:14
plugged in actually. I just like all the information
2:05:17
just to be inserted in the back of me head so I don't have to
2:05:19
watch it over and over and over again because I've seen it so
2:05:21
many times anyway. But yeah, if that could happen,
2:05:23
that would be great. But no, I am looking forward to
2:05:25
it. It's a, it's a long time coming
2:05:27
in a real, like you said, some real game changer.
2:05:29
So yeah, I'm excited about it. Relevant with the new one just
2:05:32
released as well, do you think you'd be talking about that?
2:05:35
No, I'm sure we'll mention it, but I don't think we're going to
2:05:42
go into much. But yeah, it's worth mentioning.
2:05:43
Bad. Rather stick with the original
2:05:45
and not mention any of the other ones.
2:05:46
That's all right. Not to spoil anything, but yeah,
2:05:49
it's just on the first one. And outside of that, our most
2:05:53
recent Patreon exclusive podcast is on Beetlejuice and Batman.
2:05:56
If you haven't listened already, you can sign up to be an ATRM
2:05:59
patron for access to that and all the other podcasts that
2:06:02
we've done so far, with more coming in the future.
2:06:05
Yeah. And if that wasn't enough, we've
2:06:07
got some VIP guests joining the show in the next few weeks to
2:06:10
talk about some of their favorite films.
2:06:12
Look out for those coming out very soon.
2:06:13
Not to be missed. Oh yeah, exciting.
2:06:17
Yeah, very exciting. And in between all of that, you
2:06:19
can catch our daily content across all social media.
2:06:22
On Twitter, we are at AT right movies.
2:06:24
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2:06:27
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2:06:32
Subscribe to our YouTube channel and like our videos because they
2:06:34
are fantastic. Loads of great behind the scenes
2:06:38
movie content. And you should be able to see a
2:06:41
video of this very podcast on there very soon too.
2:06:44
Yes. And finally, our website is all
2:06:46
the right movies.com and that's a wrap.
2:06:48
We're off for a meeting in the desert.
2:06:50
I think we've got a 50% chance of making it out alive.
2:06:53
Well, me and you have. I mean you haven't.
2:06:55
Matt turns up Matty. Batley I like that that can
2:07:05
stick. Like we can use.
2:07:07
That again. Yeah.
2:07:09
Thanks guys. Thanks everyone, see you soon.
2:07:12
Bye bye. We're waiting on Carmike.
2:07:35
Yeah, Lyle for Carmike. He was here before I saw him.
2:07:38
He had a suitcase and everything, and then he left.
2:07:41
Come, I left. Huh.
2:07:42
Come, I left. Who's gone?
2:07:46
That's not it. How my job?