Latest / WoT Spoilers / Under an Oak - Knife of Dreams chapter 36 - EP508

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Under an Oak - Knife of Dreams chapter 36 - EP508 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time spoilers podcast. It's the
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Mayor Witch chapter which coming back from my marriage. I
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: mean basically, if we if we hadn't taken a break
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: from me getting married, Matt would have gotten married pretty
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: much on the same day I did. In the podcast
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: time Yeah, yeah, a little trippy weddings everywhere, weddings everywhere,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Bell's bells ringing. Of course, Matt's like, but I'm already
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: kind of half married, so it's been a really long
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: ceremony since he started it, and now too on's finishing it.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an engagement's an engagement period, gotcha?
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Gotcha? Weirdest engagement every Probably. I guess I should read
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: a sing on this.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, under an oak with the harp as the symbol,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: I guess because Tom is sort of the foil for Matt.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this, I was thinking, like, it's Furic Careed going
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: after Tom and this is tom symbol, So it's like Tom.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Marilynd's mentioned a bunch in this chapter, and it's like
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: almost because it's from Furick Creed's POV. It's the banner
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: in his head what it should be.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: It's a weird choice, but it's kind of fun.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Should have been the hand, it should have been right foxes,
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: or or the red band sign yeah, but instead it's Tom.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or even like an a Sean Chan symbol because
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: of two.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or of fur careed himself.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Right right yeah, But but no, it's.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: It's the Red Herring, which is like, oh my god.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: At this point in the series, you're like, Okay, I
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: get you're trying to get us to identify with Fioric Creed,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: but like, do you think we don't know who Tom
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Maryland is? Like? Are you are you thinking we forgot?
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Like there's some sort of Jordan feels like he's playing
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: a trick on us, But I think, I mean, he's
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: just really diving into that POV writing that he loves
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: so much.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I think he's he's staring at us
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: through the fourth wall and being like, do you see
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: what I did there? You see what I did that?
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I was pretty good?
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah no. And and in a lot
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: of ways, you know this, this is sort of his
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: way of saying, here's where my characters are in this moment.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: I'm having the Stranger ride up, and they've changed a
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: lot since I first described them. Let me have another
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: stranger describe them with their current status. And that's what
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: a lot of this chapter is is fr a careed
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: describing characters that we already know who they are.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, getting sort of an.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Updated description of in the leveled up Yeah yeah, yeah.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they've they've all leveled up and are kind of
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: more in their final form. They're basically ready for the
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: last battle. They are not our bumpkins anymore. Not that
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Tom was ever a bumpkin, but really any of them
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: except Matt, but you know, our Ammondsfield five. It's like
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: we need to see them from an external POV to
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: really appreciate how much the five of them have grown.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm hm, So I guess I should read a
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: sin chapter thirty six, Under an Oak. The sun stood
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: well above the mountains as Karreed rode through the trees
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: towards the so called Maltive Narrows, perhaps two leagues ahead.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: The five mile wide gap in the mountains carried the
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: road from Abu Dhar to Luguard, a mile south of him,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: well short of the narrows, though he would find the
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: camp Ajimbura had located for him. Ajimbura had not been
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: a fool enough to try entering the camp. So Koreed
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: still did not know whether he was riding into a
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: death trap for nothing. No, not for nothing. For the
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: High Lady Tuan, any death WatchGuard was ready to die
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: for her. Their honor was duty, and duty often meant death.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: The sky held only billowing white clouds, with no threat
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: of rain. He'd always hoped to die in the sunlight.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: He had brought just a small party adjimbura on his
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: white footed chestnut to show the way. Of course, the
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: wiry little man had cut off his white streaked red braid,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: a measure of his great devotion. The hill tribes took
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: these braids as trophies from those they killed in their
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: endless feuds, and to be with that one was to
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: be disgraced in the eyes of all the tribes and
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: the families. A self proclaimed coward. That devotion was to Kreed,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: rather than the High Lady or the Crystal throne. But
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Kared's own devotion was such that it came to the
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: same thing. Two of the guards rode at Kared's back,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: and the red and green armor buffeted till it shone
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: like his own Heratha, and a pair of gardeners strode
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: along with their long halted axes on their shoulders, easily
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: keeping pace with the horses. Their armor glistened as well. Melateine,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: the High Lady's dorsaldom, her long gray hair tied with
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: a bright red ribbon today was on a high stepped
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: gray the silvery length of the adam connecting her left
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: wrists to Mylan's neck. There had been little that could
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: be done to make those two appear more impressive. The
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: adewm and Melowtine's blue dress, the red panels on the skirts,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: and bosom holding the silver forked lightning bolts should draw
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: the eye. Taken together, no one should notice Ajimbora at all.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: The rest were back with massage in case it was
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: truly a death trap. I'll stop reading there. That's quite
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: a read in there. Yeah, that was a good It
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: is a good scene.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: K is A is a lyrical man. He describes things well.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a bit of a poet.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah time he literally both were liking as the poet.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Yah, he's both so yeah, I just love the description
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: he's got. He's setting up Agimbora to basically sneak out
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: and run away and get help if they find the
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: High Lady tu On.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, to take back well, not to get help, but
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: to take back the news that she is in fact here, right,
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: like if he can lay if Ajimbura is able to
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: lay eyes on or Kared is able to lay eyes
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: on tu On, then that information has to get back
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: to the others, like whether or not this goes well,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Like they need to know that she is here.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: And who are the others? The others are like the
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: rest of the people.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: He does, Okay, he takes a small contingent of that
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: force into the camp and the rest are just a
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: few miles away. So yeah, like if it all goes
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: to hell, Aujenburer will lead the rest of them back
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: and they'll smash and get too on and all that.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: And then it's interesting that they brought the eyes to
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: die Domani.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Yes they did.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: That's that's quite the issue.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Later it's because she isn't really useful in battle, and
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: so it's like, yeah, let's bring her to heal or
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: to create skylights basically anything. But it's more of a distraction, right.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: They need a soul dam and Domani for appearance's sake,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: for a s for the threat display of it all,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: but they can't risk actually doing violence because it could
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: get tooon killed. So it's like, yeah, bring the one
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: who's only good for healing in a way that the
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: rest are not. And in the off chance we do
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: end up in a violent situation, we could, you know,
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: last last dish effort, we could use healing, which he
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: also is like worse than Matt on his opinions about
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: magical healing right well, have a lot of similarities between
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Kreed and Matt. I definitely get something like, oh yeah,
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: my dad will like you kind of energy like his dad, right,
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: And the fact that him and matter kind of similarly.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: You're like, oh yeah, no, they're going to be a
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: good match because he's like her dad.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: So that makes total sense. I like that comparison that
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: this is like a stepdad almost right, like.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Because her actual father was not at all present in
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: her life, like she mentions her mother had loved her father,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: like the Prince of the Ravens, was not a force
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: in the picture as far as I can tell. For
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: two one, I think he might have been dead or
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: imprisoned or something like. I don't think he was literally around.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: So Kared, as her bodyguard, is like the father figure, stepdad.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: He's the one who's actually there taking care of her,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: albeit at you know, the distance of a bodyguard, but
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: in her world, a bodyguard is going to be like
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: the most intimate contact you have with another human. Right. So,
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: so Lucia is mom kared his dad?
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally right, because even if the people who birthed
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: are still around, they're off ruling an empire and doing
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: whatever they do, right, they have No, they don't really
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: interact with their children because most of the children are
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: going to get killed by each other, right, So.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Like, and that's just not what rich ruling people do.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: They just they don't raise their own kids.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: I thought she had some younger siblings, So I thought
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: the Prince of the Ravens would still be around for
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: like a little while, or at least a Prince of
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: the Ravens is around. It might not be like, you know,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: they might get replaced on a regular basis, right, Like,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: it's not necessarily the same father.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Right or maybe he's just you know, defanged and kept
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: in a room and used for stud now and then yeah,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: that's I'm just saying it's the shan Chan. I'm sure
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: the right Jesus Christ. But you know, kids are kids.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: They're gonna impress on whoever takes care of them. It's
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: just how kids are either way.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: If you he's definitely dead now Samarog made sure of that.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure. So yeah, all that to say,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: But like Kared's son died going back into a burning
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: building getting people out, which we always you know, compare
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: Matt to Swansa who went into a burning building, and
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: it's like, oh, okay, So Kared's son is the kind
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: of person that Matt has been favorably compared to in
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: a way that we recognize, Like, yeah, he totally is
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: going to approve of this kid for his daughter, like right,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: and he does at the end, Right, He's like oh,
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: because you know, at the very end, she asks like how,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: you know, what did you think of him? He's like, well,
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: I mean he seems perfect for you basically, so you know,
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: thumbs up, I guess.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Interesting note agin Burah no dedication to the Crystal Throne
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: or the High Lady, because he's never knelt to the
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Crystal Throne. He's never been compelled by it.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: And that also implies that his loyalty to Kreed is
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: completely outside of the purview of the Crystal Throne as well. Right,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: for whatever reason he's loyal to Creed, has nothing to
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: do with that power structure.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: But then that goes back to that hill. We've seen
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: other examples of those people from that particular tribe attaching
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: themselves to important people.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: It's a thing that happens in shan Chan. I'm guessing
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: it's some sort of because Okay, again, shaw Chan's America, right, right,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: So do you know how like Americans have their super
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: problematic obsession with indigenous people. Yes, I feel like this
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: is an iteration of that. Right, There's these indigenous shon
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Chan people that like are mostly just driven up into
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: the hills to like scratch out whatever meager existence on
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: subpar land. But sometimes, for some reasons, some of them
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: just really like being a second in command mascot going
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: around with their big nice shan Chan buddy and going
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: on adventures with them. And you know, I just I
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: just put that together right now, But I think that
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: might be kind of what's going on there.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I think we talked about that briefly in the last episode.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, you may very well have. I have yet
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: to edit it. The episode that is coming out in
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: two days. Yeah yet to edit.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: You're doing? That is how that works? Yes, the day
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: before always.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, we got to like make sure that
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: we have like a nice lead time so that I
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: can procrastinate and burn it all up on not getting ahead.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Was supposed to us.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: What the AUDHD.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Anyway, Yeah, I probably used to complain too much. But
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: it's hard sometimes to sit down and just make yourself
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: do the editing. Not that it's hard to do the editing,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: but it's hard to make yourself sit down.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the it's the though. If
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you can see it, but I recently,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: just this weekend, got a standing desk that like goes
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: up and down. So now I can stand and work
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: and I'm so excited about it. I love it so much. Okay, yeah,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: so back to the actual chapter.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So that they're they're riding into camp, right, Basically,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: they hear the whistles of the warning of these soldiers
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: saying there's somebody here, but they're not early a threat. Right.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: He spots the coated bird calls. Right, He's like, oh,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: those guys are pretty subtle, aside from the bright red
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: armband that they're wearing in the tree.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Why are they wearing the red armband?
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Is that just because they're red arms? That's just a
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: thing that they do. It's it's very so like Karita's
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: right to mock them for it, like, who were you
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: showing off for the people that you're hiding from that?
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Come on, God, but whatever.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: And so he rides in to see the seven or
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: eight thousand men that Matt has, which is a far
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: underrestmid of what was it, thirty thousand, forty thousand that
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: they thought he needed to put out the Yeah, so
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: you know, clearly we know the cranks basically make them
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: be able to put out four times five times as
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: many bolts.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a major force multiplier that possible.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Right, And that's why they've been unable to find them,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: because it's this relatively small force and they're looking for
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: a bigger force. All those sorts of things.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, he walks in with a bunch of
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: incorrect assumptions, looks around and takes a view of the camp,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: which is objectively correct. He has all the wrong interpretations,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: but his observations are all correct. Again, he's a very
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: cool dude, Like when he looks at people and assises
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: the situation. He's not like almrat More instantly putting meaning
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: on things. He just observes and then puts it together.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: He still puts it together wrong, but at least there's
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: a one two step process to it well.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: And don't forget the reason he puts it together wrong
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: is because for him to figure out what actually happened,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: he would have to understand that Taveren are making things
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: that are otherwise extremely unlikely happen. He even says multiple
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: times like, there's no way these two things could be related.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: That's too much of a coincidence. And it's like not
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: if you're dealing with Tavern, you don't know that, you
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: don't believe in Tavern first of all, don't know about it,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: don't know about it. And then second of all is
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: just like, dude, there's no way that could possibly be.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: So I understand why you're coming to the false conclusion
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: based on the facts that.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: You have well, and plus I mean I reference almat Moore,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: not randomly like he is the reason Kreda is here.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Almar at Moore's House of Cards nonsense. That is the
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: starting assumption that Kared has right. That's where Kurita is
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: starting that is not square one, that is square negative
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: ten knowing what the hell is going on? Now, he
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: comes up to speed very quickly, but he's starting at
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: a major disadvantage with respects to objectively what is happening.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: The other fun thing is that he thinks that he
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: has terrible odds, and I'm like, don't worry, baby, you're
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: walking into the halo of Matt Coffin. Terrible odds are
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: kind of his thing, the fact that you're taking this
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: very unlikely proposition in there but into the field of
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Matt Coffin, Like, He'll be fine, You'll be that improbable.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Things are going to work out, You're going to be
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: good doing the story. Now, it's all right.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: But in no way does he know that? Right of course,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: how could he know?
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: How could he know?
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: He writes in someone mentions Lord Matt, He's like, the
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: hell's that? I don't give a shit. Uh take me
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: take me to Tom Marilyn.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Tom Onis rise up. It is like, yeah, Matt
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: described that armor. And he's like, who the who the
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: fuck is Matt? First of all, rude, I introduce yourself.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Second of all, who the fuck is Matt? And like
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: that's what it's like, Tom Marilyn is the spymaster and
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: who the fuck is Matt? Or like Careed's two main thoughts.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: It's like, ah, not to mention this has nothing to
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: do with the White Tower, right, which he's assuming that
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: this is all the direction of the White Tower is
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: actually the direction of the Dragon reborn, right, And he
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: doesn't even want what they're doing. This is just Matt
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: doing stuff off the cuff.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, Matt Randon did not send Matt to
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: deal with the Daughter of the Nine Moons, Like this
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: is entirely an emergent property of Matt being in the equation.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: So okay, Creed talks about his mad plan.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: What is his plan to walk in and bluff their
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: way to getting too on back?
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, Like, what's his bluff that he.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Has far more men than Matt does, that Matt is
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: in an untenable situation and he's going to be crushed
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: between two massive forces. And Matt says, I know your
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: real size. That was the gamble was that he could
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: get on having more people than he did.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Not only do I know your real size, but the
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: other force is going the wrong direction.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: So yeah, no, yeah, Korea was just really hoping he
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: could just bald face lie his way through the situation.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: And it's a bad plan. He knows it's a bad plan.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: He does it anyway because he's you know, fixated on
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: his goal, but like, it is a bad plan. I mean,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: I will admit it is a bad plan. The only
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: reason it works is because he's applying it to Matt,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: who's like, you are exactly what I asked for. Because
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: this is what Matt wanted the whole time, was safe
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: transport for TWU on back out. He never meant to
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: take her with him. It was something that happened because
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: she inserted herself into his escapade, so then he had
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: to take her for the immediate term. And those whole
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: rest of the time he's been like, how the hell
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: do I get her back.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Without betraying everybody else?
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Right, and now an armored uber has just rolled up
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: right right, He's like, wow, which exactly what I needed.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: You You have how many O gear with you? Okay? Cool?
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Like that's really all Matt had to hear, is like,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: oh you got a couple of tanks? Yeah, no, okay,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: you can take her. Yeah that's fine.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as long as two one consents, I completely trust her,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: and two on of course, is like, oh yeah, no,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: that's my stepdad's uncle whatever you know, caretaker guy?
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, right, right, right? Yeah? Do you still have the
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: doll I gave you as a child? Yes? Okay, you
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: trust this man? Right? Like that's that is such an
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: amazing sort of level.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: I want to get into it a little bit more, but.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I love that interaction between them.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's what it makes Tuon. It redeems her character
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: a lot based on everything else we know about her.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, this interaction can be a load bearing support in
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: the redemption of Tuon first.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and also one of the reasons why I
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: think she had hope and why I wish she'd had
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: evolved more in the last three books.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: But right exactly, this is the interaction that's like, oh, yeah, no,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: there's material we can work with here. There is a
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: good person to help emerge from out under the slavery brainwashing,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: like for real.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I love that he sees mister Sonan and goes,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: oh wait, I stayed at your.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Somehow. This is the least surprising face to see at
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: the circle.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I love that so much. Yeah, and
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: then then we get these this. I'm just gonna read
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: this para two paragraphs, but I think are just like
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: a bunch of descriptions of our main characters.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Give us some of that lovely Jordan pros.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: A tall, lean, white haired man with mustaches nearly as
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: long as her office was sitting cross legged on a
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: striped blanket across a stone's board from a slender woman
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: with her hair and many beaded braids. That's Domon Eludra.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: He quirked an eyebrow at Kared, shook his head, and
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: returned to pursuing the cross hatched board. She glared pure
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: hatred at Kreed and those him, because she doesn't like
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: that they slaughtered.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: All of her people, her entire guild clan.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: A gnarled old fellow with long white hair, was lying
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: on another blanket with a remarkably ugly young boy. Jesus Christ, Jordan,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: leave Oliver alone. You mean playing some game or another
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: on a piece of red cloth spider webbed with black lines.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: That's Nolan and Oliver playing Snakes and Foxes quintessential.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: They sat up, the boy, studying the O gear with interest.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: The man with one hand hovering as if to reach
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: for a knife beneath his coat. A dangerous man and
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: wary perhaps he was Marilyn. Two men and two women
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: sitting together on campstools had been conversing when Kared stood
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: up rode up, but as he was stepping down, a
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: stern faced woman stood and fixed her blue eyes on
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: his in very nearly a challenge. She wore a sword
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: on a wide leather strap slanting across her chest the
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: way some sailors did. Her hair was close cropped and
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: rather cut rather than cut in the style of the
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: low blood. Her fingernails were short and none were lackered.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: But he was certain she was a Ghenan temroth, which
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: honestly great description of a Guenan, especially if you think
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: of her as prime to become a Gwayne's warder.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this like short hair, short nails, swords strapped across
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: her chest. I mean she is just like going full on,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: you know, barbarian mode.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally totally. And she's just like arms crossed, stern faced,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: with her own bodyguard at her back, like.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, and she's not doing any of this painting her
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: nail shit, That stuff chips, right, like she is now, like.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: She never wanted to be a girly girl. That bloodshit
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: was just like not for her, Like yeah, no, she's
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: ready to go be an absolute barbarian for Agwayn, and
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: that is what we all deserved.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: A heavy set man with his hair as short as
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: hers and one of those odd illanoor beards, stood beside
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: her domon one hand on the hilt of a short sword,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: staring at Kared as if he intended to second her challenge.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: A pretty woman with dark waist long hair and the
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: same rosebud mouth as the tera Bonner stood and for
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: a moment it seems she might kneel or prostrate herself,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: but then she straightened and looked him right in the eyes.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's god damn it. Yeah, like yes, Sarah, all
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: your work with againan s Lylwyn and with Julian like
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: it's paying off. It's paying off, like that friendship. Or
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: she was like, no, you look me in the eyes,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: like you look us all in the eyes, like it's
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: paying off. You can see Sarah looking Kared in the eyes.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: We love to see it.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: The therapy after being imprisoned by the dark, the black
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: a Jah coming back then being taken as demon No docoveil, docoveil,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: thank you, Yeah, by the the sean Chan. Right so
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: that's twice now, been at the hands of dark friends
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: and Orchard, right so.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: And she's still managing to come out of it.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: The last man, a lean fellow in a peculiar red
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: cap who looked carved from dark wood, gave a loud
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: laugh and flung his arms around her. The grinning stare
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: he gave Greed could only be called triumphant.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, He's like, yeah, that's right, I got my
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: girl back. Fuck you guys and your stupid slavery system.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, that's I just the description of all
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: our main characters, particularly of a Guinan, was just really
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: really good. I think from an outsider perspective.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: It's satisfying, delicious, it's just so good, so good. Our
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: party is ready for the big boss.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: And oh god, this just it makes me I wish
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Gawain had died protecting a GWayne in her sleep from
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: the shawn Chan assassins. She shouldn't have woken up in
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: time to heal him, and from then on Agaenan was
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: her warder.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe we can't just rewrite the books instead of
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: podcasting through the books as written, we can just podcast
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: the experience of.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: I wish I was a better writer. But as we
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: were discussing, reading does not make you a good writer.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: I'm a decent writer. I think we could workshop, but
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: I think I could create enough of scaffolding that we
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: as a community could could workshop it into something we
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: all agree with.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: I'm here for that.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: I don't have the time, but I do I think
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: have the raw skill.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: So then sort of we come up upon the group
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: of isid I and former soul Doom.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, they all come running up in a cluster.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Right, and they see them and Demany, the Demane being
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: a former I sid I sureI. And this is where
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: we get into the estuary.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Sherianne just literally threw at the wall for that one.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: I saw. Yeah, and she's got a history. But essentially,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: in the fires of Heaven, she was taken. She resisted
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: for a while, was shipped off to sean Chan, was
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: broken there, came back, Tuon adopted her and trained her herself,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: and now she's a loyal Schooledom. Yeah.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: I thought it was that Tuon picked her up in
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: shan Chan.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, possibly, possibly.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: No, I believe that like she literally has a thought
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: about like that, and yeah, brought her back over the
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: ocean because now she was fixed or whatever, and yeah
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: that wait, so she got taken in Fires of Heaven?
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: What do we actually like, when did she get taken
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: in Fires of Heaven? What what encounter with the shan
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Chan was that?
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Let me pull it up. I had it just a
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: second ago. Sorry, the Great Hunt, not the Fires of Heaven.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: I apologize, Okay, yeah, I was just like I would
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: have thought that would have been like, yeah, the end
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: of Great Hunt.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, she was taken in the Great Hunt.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: She's taken back to shan Chan, we find out in
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Winter's Heart chapter fourteen.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so and that also makes more sense timeline
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: wise because Tuon hadn't yet taken off in Great Hunt, right,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: because she's one of the last ships, right, like there's
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: the forerunners and then there's the full return.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Right right, and some of the ships made it back
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: from do my as well as before too On left shawn.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Chan, I mean from Falma, not too might as wells.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Thank you, I swear my brain. I don't know why
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: it does that.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, large cataclismic battle with Rand at the center. I
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: mean the same, same, different. But yeah, they've been sending
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: ships back. It's not like sailing across the Pacific. It's
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: like sailing across the Atlantic. It's a much narrower ocean
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: than all the eyes that I ever think when they
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: talk about the probability of there being armies on the
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: other side, it's like you could have just sent a
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: ship to check it's.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Not that far, right. Yeah, the map doesn't make it
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: seem like it's all that far at all.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, especially if you look at the updated map that
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: has proper shan Chan in the southern hemisphere like it,
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: it wouldn't have been. I guess maybe if you send
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: a ship over there and they get captured, then you'll
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: never hear from them again, and you'll assume the ocean
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: goes forever.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it's essentially the world feels very
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: much like Randland is Europe, sean Chan is the America's.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: There is no Africa.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Africa just went under the leaves in the breaking.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: I guess, which I mean, Okay, Jordan, did you really
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: just I guess that's one way to get he just
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: got rid of Africa, really, and.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Then all the brown people are on boat. Yeah, yeah,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: the continent sank, so now they're only on boats. It's
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, he does have dark people throughout both Sean
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Chan and Europe, Americas and the Americas and Europe. And
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: there's Shara, which we just know so little about.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Well that's clearly Asia.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, I know, but like we don't we don't
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: have it. Yeah, yeah, it is kind of weird how
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: he just deleted Africa, right, like Australia we couldn't have.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like there's just there's an analog to every.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: It except except the Mother continents except you know, yeah
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: that was a choice he made.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: H can sit on that one for a second.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: So Yeah, we have a little bit of the back
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: and forth with the Ice to Die about how she's
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: an ic to die. I know she's not. She's a demani.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: She's gone, she's different. She would have betrayed us. We
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: can't save her. We have we have a bit of
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: them going back and forth about that she's.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Broken and this idea that once you're broken, there's no
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: redeeming you. I don't know how much I like it
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: and how much it's just like no, you could like
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: save her and like recover from PTSC.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: But well, in this case, I feel like Jordan has
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: made it very clear that he agrees with that. But
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: the Ice to Die are so hide bound and stuck
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: in their ways that they have not come to terms
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: with that, and they should, I think, But I think
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: at this point Jordan has made it very clear that no,
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: you can come out of it. It just takes a
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: lot of time and patience in a safe space to
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: work through it. And the Eyes to Die historically don't
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: do trauma therapy. They just say suppress it, and you
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: can't suppress being enslaved. You actually have to work through that.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: So it's the Eyes to Die who are wrong. And
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: I think Jordan knows what he's saying.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: What do you mean, Agwayne has totally worked, not worked
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: through her pain.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: She's a nice to die yep.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's why she dies at the end.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Really yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then the High Lady
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Tuon rides up and careed, you know, like the clouds part,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: the angel voices rained down. You know, she's here. Her
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: head's you know, got hair coming out of it, but
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: it's her, it's her. He's so happy.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: I wonder if she remembers me. Probably not meanwhile her,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Oh it's my dad.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Literally literally like you think I'm gonna not know you
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: after only ten years or whatever, like yeah. And then also,
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: you know, Matt rolls up, but he just gets completely ignored.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: And and this is the as soon as the clouds
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: part and the angels sit down, ajim Bora is out
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: of his saddle, out of his out of the party.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: He is slipping back to camp. Like ten minutes later,
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: the other guys know, yeah, she's here. Everyone get ready
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: to see what happens next.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Right, which is which is just careed riding out with
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: two on in this possession and saying let's go. Well,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: actually they end up going with Matt. Right, Well we'll
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: get to that one.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: We'll get to that. But yes, it's they, but they
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: all know to be on high alert that this was
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: not a wild goose chase. She is, in fact here
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: we have a very disparaging description of Matt. And then
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Matt rolls up and starts telling both the Suldom and
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: the Eyes said I what to do, and very much
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: confuses Kared. Here's a man walking up being like, you
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: stop holding the power. You stop holding the power. Everyone
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: stop holding the power, and I can tell and he's like,
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: are you an asham On? Like what is happening?
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: How?
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: How?
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's just him with his He's gotten really
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: good at reading the medallion, right when it turns cold,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: it's a little bit like reading the medallion and a
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: little bit reading the people. Right, He's bluffed a little
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: bit on that, Like he knows how people react to
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: each other, so when it turns cold, he's like, oh,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: that's you. Oh, now that's you exactly.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: He has very good intuition for who is creating the signal,
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: and he has a sense for like how much power
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: is being held by how cold it gets, right, Like,
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: it's actually a very interestingly sensitive instrument. And yeah, his
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: knowledge of people is enough to put the rest together.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Which I mean, it is just this like it to me.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: The idea is it absorbs ambient magic, right, and that's
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: why it turns cold, and so the more magic that's ambient,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: the colder it's going to get. So the idea is
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: very simple. But yeah, it does become very sensitive to
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: just ambient magic. And that's that's a cool way to
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: think about something that absorbed magic weaves tossed at it.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, there's sort of like there's an ambient energy
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: field around magic being done that will trigger a magic
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: negating device. And we don't quite know what the field is,
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: but one assumes like in the ten minus foot kind
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: of range, Like I'm assuming it doesn't go very far,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: but far enough.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I believe it also gets cold once people are using sideine.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know that. We see him around a
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: lot of Ashaman or Rand with the medallions. We don't
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: knowing what it is or whatever, but I can't imagine
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: that it would be any different. Oh, and we do
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: see the medallion getting used in the last battle against
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Demondred quite successfully. It's not with Matt, so the cold
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: factor is not really there, but it clearly eats the magic,
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: so we know it works on siding.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, because for a while, when Matt was killed with
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: the lightning, right, that was a male channeler, and so
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: there was a big debate and even I think in
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: his own head, right, I think Rand said, oh, it
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: doesn't protect him from the male half of the channeling
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: because he was killed. But Robert Jordan has said no,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: the lightning is in effect like a stone being tossed.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, the electricity is what killed Matt.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Not the site right sideine, so which I'm like, okay,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: that's a little fucking technical, but all right, right, like
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: because I guess they weren't. He wasn't necessarily weaving air
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: and fire together to create lightning. He was just pulling
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: lightning out of the sky and directing it.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Who even knows how lightning works in the right especially
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: not fighting.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's my only thing with Matt and the
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: medallion is for a while we really did think it
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: didn't work against sideine, but but obviously later it's been
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: proven many times over that it works against both.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: But we just don't get that same kind of description
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: of like getting cold because he's near an ashaman doing
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: a gateway or whatever. Like it's all right with women
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: that we get that level of description.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Fuji saying it gets hot with sidine and cold with sidar.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: That would be kind of interesting.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: It would suck. I'm getting frost, but I'm getting heat.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: That would be that'd be awkward. Can we just have
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: some like may well, because then if men and women
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: works together in the room, then it would just stay
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: a nice ambient temperature and just sort of vibrate.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, that makes sense. Just like maybe half
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: hot half cold.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like in the ancient symbol of ice to die,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: like sort of just swirling like a like a waiting symbol,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: you know, Oh yeah, like a loading circle, but.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Just around and around and around. You can feel it
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: like pulsating with temperature.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: It'd be a really cool like stem toy. Honestly, someone
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: invent that. That sounds cool.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: What I would do is I just get a disc
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: of very highly conductive like maybe like a copper disc,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: and put a circular heating like a ring of heating elements,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: and then just take turns alternating and have the heat
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: We're like, go in a circle, and I bet you
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: it would feel sort of like a spiraling.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: That'd be dope. I want a thermal loading circle.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Thermal loading circle.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: As a sensory toy. That's a very specifically weird request.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Very still though, sounds pretty cool. This is not a
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: relative to the chapter, not at all. Yeah, so yeah,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: the two on and Solusia think that the banter between
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Matt and the Isi die is very funny. And Careta
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: is like, oh good, she's kept her spirits up in captivity,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Like meanwhile, we know that like she's been having a
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: ball on this wild ass field trip, like teasing Matt
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: and getting into discussions with Mistress on on and just
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: generally living a very not sheltered high lady existence a
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: bar to a dive bar. Like she's been having so
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: much fun and she knows she has to go back
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: to her real life eventually. It's like Roman holiday kind
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: of thing. Yeah, totally a little bit, and you know,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: so she knows that she has to go back. You know,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: her dad showed up with the cars. All right, I
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: gotta go. But like you know, she has not had
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: a difficult time keeping her spirits up. She's been having
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: no ball.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: It's it's almost like a pre honeymoon totally, totally like
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: the honeymoon before the marriage or the engagement honeymoon. Like, yeah,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: this has been in a big engagement party for her basically.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they even kissed, which is like, ye, Handles.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: It's very scandalous. Did I see a lot of lane
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: in Tuon in these events? They sort of like having
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: away to join the circus? Yeah, yeah, they both did,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: saying circus, these princesses running away to join the circus. Jesus, Yeah,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: they have a lot.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: But t One never wanted to go on the high wire,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: which is one of the big differences between them and
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: the slavery thing, the two big differences.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: The slavery thing. So here's where Koreed tries to bluff
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: General Marilyn right by lying about General Chisen Chisen, basically saying, Chisen, Okay.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter, Titan, Yeah whatever.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Kiteness because and and He's like he's coming, and
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: Matt's like, no, he's not. He's had these five directions
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: and heading five days away and heading in the wrong direction.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, says basically says, give me two on now
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: and I'll let you live because I have overwhelming for us.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: And Matt says, nah, nah, no you don't. But coincidentally,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: the thing I want most in the world is for
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: you to take too on safely back so we can
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: work this out.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: So you can have her anyway, yeahed, Why would this
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: man just release the highlighty after the White Tower had
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: gone to all this trouble of kidnapping her. Why after
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: fighting that short bloody campaign, right, and remember the campaign
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: was designed to get the army to move in the
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: direction it's moving, right, So Matt's and both Matt and
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Creed know that he was successful in getting him to move.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Creed's just hoping that Matt doesn't know.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Right right exactly. He's banking on Matt being a lot
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: dumber than he is, which again Creed knows is a
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: bad gamble because he knows Matt is smart from seeing
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: what he's done. He's like, maybe I can bluff the
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: smart man, Like.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's trying to bluff Tom Marilyn. But it's Matt,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: of course he's doing this. Yeah, yeah, he's just trying
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: to bluff the wrong person.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: He's also like, in addition to being hung up on weight,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: you're just gonna give her to me, he's also hung
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: up on like wait, Thailand's toy general, like, you know,
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: like the his brain is starting to smoke a little bit,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: you know, figure.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: This out, you know wait wait wait wait. Yeah, he's
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: definitely just like wait wait wait wait wait hold on,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: let me no no, no, like that's how I feel
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: like reads just like okay, And but he adapts pretty quickly, yes, right,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: once he figures out what's going on, he does it
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: that pretty quickly. But there's that moment where he's just like, oh, okay,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: this is weird.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and then he's like, wait, you just give
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: her to me. Matt's like no, and he turns to
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: two On and it's like two On, is this cool?
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Is this who you want to go back with? And
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: this is when we get the interaction where she says,
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: not only do I trust the death Watch Guard implicitly,
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: I trust my dad death Watch Guard the most. I
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: literally like gave him a doll when I was a
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: little I have kept up on his life, like since
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: he left my service on rotation, Like I super trust
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: this guy.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and she's like, do you still love the doll?
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: He's like I lost everything in the fire, but implying
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: that like if I hadn't, if I had it up
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: to the point when I lost everything, and obviously I
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: would have still kept it if I hadn't lost everything.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Right, exactly, like I would never have lost your doll,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: except for the part where everything went up in flames
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: and I lost like literally you know everything, And then
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: she yeah, is like that means you kept it for
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: ten years? Very sweet, also like super sorry to hear
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: about your personal losses. And he's like who keeps up
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: with that stuff?
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: You know? Right? And like she's not that old because
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: she's how old is tooon? Do we have an official
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: age on her? Isn't she like six?
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: She's twenty nineteen, okay.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: So that that means she must have given it to
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: him as like a five six year old. He kept
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: it for ten years and only lost it a couple
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: of years ago in a fire, right like.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Right, and like, and who keeps up with the personal
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: lives of their former bodyguards when you live in a
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: life full of bodyguards, right like? But also you know,
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: of course she kept up with the guy who saved
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: her when she was a child, and like she gave
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: a doll to like obviously that one's gonna stand out.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: You don't get assassination attempted that many times, even if
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: you're two on you know, like the ones should put
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: their bodies on the line for you are gonna stand out.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: There's just not that many of them that because a
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: lot of them are going to get foiled without anyone
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: nearly dying for you, like.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: The cat's going to take the low par is going
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: to take care of them.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: And plus she was really young, right, so it would
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: have been a very formative assassination attempt You know, all
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: the rest of them are going to be judged against
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: that one and found wanting because that was the most scary.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: You always remember your first It takes attempt exactly.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah we learned that. Yeah, Careed's son was
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: the kind of man who would run into a burning
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: building until he died trying to save.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: People, which is going to make his son law also
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: the same kind of person. And so here Mac goes,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: all right, we're good, you like each other. As soon
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: as she and Slush can get their things together, you
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: take them out of here and ride hard. That's it,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: he says.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: Go Yeah, He's like, all right, simple done, let's let's
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: do this. And then two on is like, but wait, wait,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: I have one one last little stick to put in
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: your spokes.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: You're my husband, bitch.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: Mattrium bloody govin.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Is that is the wording you use, is it not?
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: This had to be a fever dream again.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Dad and boyfriend are both flummoxed in the same way
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: and have the same expression on their faces as a
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: daughter slash girlfriend is doing this right, Like, Karita and
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Matt are both like you what now? In a way
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: that's just like it's bonding them slightly. You know they
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: will forever have this bond of both feeling like the
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: rug was ripped out from them in this moment.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: And that's why Tooon did it in this moment. It
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: is to rip the rug out from under both of them.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: And she wanted her dad there to see her get married.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: That's true. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, but dad
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: and mom right solutions.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: There, right right, Yeah, exactly. And you know Matt has Tom,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Tom's kind of like Matt.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Tom and Julian. Yeah, those are his dirty uncles, let's
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: be honest. But you know that's that's what you want
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: standing up with you at a wedding, is your dirty uncles?
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah for sure, for sure, Yeah, totally.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: So.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a fun, a fun way to end
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: that POV.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: This is where the POV switches to Matt having just
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: gotten married that I will never get married. I will
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: never be a noble now is both?
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you just got married into the imperial family, dude.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Of probably the biggest empire in the world.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not just a noble, you're like the noblest
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: of nobles.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're extremely wealthy and in charge of an empire
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: that uses human bondage's currency. Like ye're you really married
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: up into a problem.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: I love it when he's like, oh, I don't know
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: how to steal from the palace. Oh wait, I own
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: the palace.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Fuck yeah, yeah, but yeah, he thinks about how the
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: dice had been pounding away in his head for days
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: and it's been very anxiety inducing with all the battles,
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: but all it needed was for her to say a
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: few words and boom, there we go, done with the dice.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: All we needed.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: At least this time he knew what had happened. That
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: was so bloody fateful for Matt bloody coffin. It's like, yeah,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: you're married.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is what, like the fourth or fifth
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: time that Tuan has been the reason the dice stopped.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't forget. This is one of the times
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: when he had cascading dice in his head. Remember he
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: had four or five sets, and so a bunch of
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: them were like ending one after the other after the other,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: and they were getting quieter. But now for the first time,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: I think they've finally stopped.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the last set has finally come to rest.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: It's like all of this faithful was leading up to
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: him getting married and becoming the Prince of the Ravens.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's really the becoming the Prince of the
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Ravens part that I think is the fateful part. Marrying
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: to one I don't think is a hugely fateful thing
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: for the sake of the world, like emotionally or even reproductively,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: whatever they do with the Empire, I don't know that
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: that merits the tavernness. But the way that being Prince
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: of the Ravens influences last battle dynamics, yeah that is
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: world saving levels of important.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: And post world saving yeah dynamics as well. Right right,
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: you know this is this is where Jordan is setting
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: out the outrigger stuff just a little bit.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Yep. He's like, oh, yeah, no, Matt needs to have
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: a hook for later.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know you're going too sooner or later,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: but why now? I like you, maybe more than like you,
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: and I enjoy kissing you. Kurry grunted bad energy. Yeah, yeah,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: definitely don't.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: I don't want you.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: Did you did what with her?
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: No?
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: Thank you? Yeah, no, thank you?
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: You held hands in the park. Yeah, And and and
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Matt's like, but we're not falling in love, like you
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: didn't act like a woman falling in love. She's like,
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: I'm not marrying for love. I'm a princess idiot.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: I'm marrying for prophecy. What do you what do you mean?
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: You knew you were going to marry me like this?
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: So that's that moment when they both wait, we both
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: were prophesied, that's why we did it, and he goes,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: oh yeah. He talks about the snakes and the foxes
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: and the prophecy, saying he was going to marry the
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: daughter of nine moons, and I said, I vouch for him.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: Kind of ish ish fat lot of help she was
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: with her, So I understand and supposed Lee's right, all
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: the the mish mush words.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Around, but I don't think yeah, but yeah, no, he
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: gives it to her straight. He tells her exactly what happened,
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: very succinctly reprises the events, and she completely disbelieves him,
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: and the eyes tod I try to help and only
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: make it worse. It's very funny.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, she turns around and goes, yeah, I had a
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: foretelling basically from a you know, demani can have foretellings basically,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: which is we've seen that many times.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: But apparently in Sean Chan you can do it on command.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: You can just like read fortunes and have that like
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: trigger of foretelling.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Apparently you can ask for it. It's not It's one
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: of those things where I don't think it always works.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Right, but it works more than it does in the
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: Westlands and Randland Europe.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: I wonder about that. I wonder how much the foretellings
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: are conscious right, like because the way it.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: Gets described early is like it's so random that like
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: you could never like you could never be like, I'm
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: gonna go visit Elaida and see if she has a
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: foretelling for me today, like hers didn't work like that.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: No, But I think that's because she's so self centered.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: She only has those when she's because she has a
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: couple of them at very opportune moments, like when she
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: talks to rand There's a couple others. I can't remember
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: exactly off the top of my head, but I feel
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: like she's a couple of times where she's like, I'm
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: going to have a prophecy now because that's important and
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: I need the power, and like she has to be
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: in the right head space. But I would be willing
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: to believe that if you could figure out what that
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: headspace was, you could tap into it. More often.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that is true. She basically does a foretelling
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: or command in book one. It happens to her randomly
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: other times, but that one was very on command. Marqueze
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: was like, do you have a foretelling to offer? And
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: a lot it was like sure.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Do yep, and Nikola as well, I feel like has
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: a more aunt. She's like, yeah, that's.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: That's an interesting idea that, yeah, you it's not perfect control,
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: but there is a level of if you meditate the
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: right way and put yourself in the right headspace, especially
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: with the training they have mentally to channel the one power,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: it seems like a small step, right to be on
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: the brink of something else supernatural.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: I kind of think of it as tapping into Min's
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: ability in the same way that like you can channel
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: to get into tele ron riad. That doesn't make you
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: a dream walker, right, Having the foretelling and using the
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: power to access the visions doesn't make you a doom seer,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: but it does sort of. It is that same ability
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: that they're tapping into, which doesn't work all the time,
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: but when you know, you know, and it often happens
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: for the people in front of you, right, Like, there's
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: just this yeah, and maybe maybe the people, you know,
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: there's different abilities between the isid eye and the soul
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: dom and maybe the sool dom. They've forgotten healing, but
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: maybe they understand foretelling better. Right, Where do all the
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: stuff around Tuon and her visions and the ants marching
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: and all that kind of crap, These the pathetic visions
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: that seem to be much more common and underwell understood
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: in Sean Chan. And the way Jordan compares that sort
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: of thing in Shawn to the very legitimate teller on
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: riodd stuff that we have here in Randland, right, and
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: all the other things that she finds ridiculous, makes me
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: think that we're supposed to take them with, you know,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: supposed to like agree that they could mean something, but
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: they're just not specific enough to mean anything. But then
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: maybe the grain of truth is they understand doom seers
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: and foretellers better, and that works more on command.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: I like that. I like the idea that their loss
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: of knowledge and retention of knowledge followed significantly different paths
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: to the point of manifesting all most different talents. It's
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: almost like talents are speciating out just because of how
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: information does or doesn't get lost. I think that plugs
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: the holes pretty well.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: And U Spidancle makes a good point that a lot
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: of the foretellings in Randland are old right pre the split.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: Maybe, oh yeah.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Maybe a lot of the eyes at Eye that understood
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: for telling went with the Hawkings army over to sean.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: Chan and or the wars after he sent that fleet
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: over burned out a lot of the isidai whose state
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: who had that knowledge for whatever reason? Who knows what
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: kind of book burnings fucking Ardur Hawkin got up to
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: when he was in his end stage decline, Like, Yeah,
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: that's an interesting point that there was sort of a
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: break in the foretelling usefulness that didn't happen in shan Chan.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: That does sort of imply that they took a more
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: complete understanding of it with them across the ocean. Oh
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: that's really cool.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: But then it's also clearly corrupted, because certainly the Corinthian
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: cycle is corrupted by the Dark one, more so for
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: the Empire. Yeah, right, because they've they changed it when
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: the Empire took over. They corrupted a lot of the
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: foretellings to be in favor of the Empire.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: But that can't fully corrupt their knowledge of how foretelling
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: works like, it's useful enough that they have to keep
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: the base knowledge of how to like, yeah, make people
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: more easily suggestible to trigger foretellings on command, and have
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: a bigger library of possible explanations for what a foretelling
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: might mean. And yeah, perhaps overly enthusiastic and creative interpretation
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: of what ants and birds might mean.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what the the ran kneeling to the crystal throne.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: That's one of those things that I'm like, ah, God,
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: it was in a foretelling and he did it to film.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: But is that one of those things that he kneeled
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: because it was something they wanted him to do because
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: it was a corrupted prophecy? Or was that an actual
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: prophecy that he fulfilled by kneeling? Right, Like, at what
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: point is the prophecy creating.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: Itselfs Yeah, right, it's it's prophecy in paradox. I'm at
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: a certain point I'm just gonna have to pull a
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: Janeway and be like, nope, we're not doing paradoxes.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: And he knew he was fulfilling paradox because he knew
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: that the Sean, you know, Tuan said the prophecy requires
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: that you kneel. He's like, fine, if that's what you want,
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: I'll do it, and he kneels really quick and is like, there,
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: I got out of the way. I fulfilled your stupid prophecy.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: Let's go right, which takes all the meaning out of it,
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: which further suggests that it's not a real prophecy, and
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: so if he hadn't done it, it would have been fine. Right,
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: it's an invert, it's an opposite paradox. It resolves itself
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: too neatly.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: So Tuon basically gives him the prophecy. Right, she says
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: to Matt, here's the prophecy that said I would marry you.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: When We've talked about this many times, but I'll read
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: it one more time. Beware the fox that makes the
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: ravens fly, for he will marry you and carry you away.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: Beware the man who remembers hawk Wing's face, for he
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: will marry you and set you free. Beware the man
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: of the red hand, for him you will marry, and
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: none other fox. It makes ravens fly. That's his ring.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: The ring. Yeah, he will marry you and carry you away,
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: he says, I will you know you're my bloody wife.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: And carry carry her away?
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Right, right, be where the man remembers Hawkings face. She
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: asks him if he remembers He says no, but she
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: clearly clocks that as a lie and goes, oh, you do,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: which is crazy, for he will marry you and set
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: you free. He just set her free. Yeah, yeah, right,
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: and beware the man of the red hand, the band
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: of the red hand. For him, you will marry and
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: none other.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: Which implies that you know he's going to outlive her,
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: or they're going to die together, or some sort of
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: like okay, and this marriage will last long enough that
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: you don't need to worry about other options like or
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: he's going to die very soon and you're going to
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: pull a Queen Victoria and just be in mourning for
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: the next thousand.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: Years, right, and yeah, that's that's the prophecies. They're both like,
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: I didn't love you at first, but now I think
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: I could love you because the prophecy said we would marry,
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: and it's I love little like paradox marriage love. Would
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: they have fallen in love without the prophecy? Does it matter?
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, ultimately it doesn't matter because it's what happened.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: It's kind of the same thing as with men and
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: rand right where men is like, well, knew from second
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: I saw you i'd fall in love with you, and
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: I was mad about it, and then eventually I decided
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: I didn't care because I love you. And it's just like,
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: what change other than habit, you know? And yeah, it's
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: kind of like, I don't I don't think that Matt
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: and Tuon really had any chemistry aside from the I've
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: been propheside to be with you, so I have to
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: be interested. But I don't really feel like they would
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: have had chemistry without a push from both sides.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it really feels like the pattern is an overbearing
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: parent doing arranged marriages here like yeah, yeah.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I completely agree with religion. Tuan would not
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: have looked at him without the prophecy. She would have
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: beheaded him for me himself.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: Absolutely thinking more like Randon Man. Maybe yeah.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: No, the only reason that he gets away with so
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: much with her is because she's expects him to become
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: her husband, Like if if there wasn't that, she'd be like,
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not tolerating this clown, not for for a hot minute.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: And also, I don't think he ever have been interested
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: in learning about her and and learning about her and
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: all of that stuff that he did to quote unquote
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: court her, where he was really just basically courting himself
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: into liking her, Like he never would have put that
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: effort out because she's a noble and he doesn't do
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: that with nobles and he doesn't like nobles. Blah blah
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: blah yah yam yo.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: Like he only put in the effort because he thought
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: he was already caught exactly exactly.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: He's like, well, since I'm basically married, I might as
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: well get to know my basically wife, right. He never
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: had a choice. And so it's like they seem to
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: be fine at making chemistry. But I don't think that
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: it would have happened otherwise at all. But they're they're
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: making it work. They're gonna make it work. It's gonna
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: be a fine marriage.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: It reminds me a little bit of the Shakespearean thing
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: where they're like, oh, we want these two people together.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: Let's go tell them that they're in love with each other,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: and then they'll start hitting on each other and it'll
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: make it seem like they're in love with each other,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: and then they'll be in love.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: That is my least favorite kind of court of matchma.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: I hate those plots. They make me so annoyed, and like,
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: let people make their own bad decisions. You don't need
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: to make bad decisions for them, Like.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: God that this is the pattern being person the pattern.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Go sit in a corner, you're drunk.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Seriously the pattern. And by the pattern, I mean Robert
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: Jordan is like, okay, now you two get together, and
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: YouTube get together and YouTube gets now kiss. There's definitely
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: like he takes his fictional characters in just as like okay,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: all of y'all like yeah, Sue On and Gareth Brann
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: like all that.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah it's no, I mean, and and yeah it's I
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: can see the literary heritage back to Shakespeare. That doesn't
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: mean I like it.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: The pattern is drunk.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: Here here, here's an interesting pin in the in the
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: slavery argument, because they're they're they're parting, right, there's the
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: whole like kiss thing. But Matt says, the next time
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: I see Sean Shan, I expect it will be on
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: the field somewhere. You are not my enemy, but your
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: empire is. Nor are you my enemy, husband, But I
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: live to serve the empire, and I'm just like, at
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: a certain point, you need to believe people when they
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: tell you who they are. Right, she sees herself as
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: synonymous with empire, So you need to make up your
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: mind if you are with or against empire, Like you
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: don't get to have both, Matt, You're going to have
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: to convince her to not be into slavery, or you're
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: gonna have to kill her like she is Empire. You
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: can't divorce her from that. It's not gonna happen.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I underline this. I double on online this right,
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: like this is really where and it didn't get addressed
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: as much as I wanted it to in the last
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: couple of books because exactly it just didn't. Right, Like
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: this is this is the detail of like Matt and
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: Tuon where he doesn't want to make her the enemy,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: but the empire is. They're going to have to fight.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: There's gonna be a civil fucking war. Yeah yeah, right,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: Like that's the only resolution I see going on within
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: the Shawn.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: Chan Yeah, because again, America Slave Empire. You don't undo
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: what original same based system without a crack and a
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: few hundred thousand eggs. Unfortunately, like I just I don't
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: see Seawan Chan handling this information and change better than
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: actual America, did you know?
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: So? Wait, were the Outrigor novels just an excuse for
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: Robert Jordan to write another American revolution story just in
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: shawn Civil War? Yeah? Sorry, yeah, civil war story in
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: because remember he wrote a bunch of stuff about that
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: era in the South, did he Well, oh god, let
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: me let me say this correct some really fast googling. Yeah,
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: the Fallen Blood by Reagan O'Neill, which is a pen
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: name of Robert Jordan. In Fallen Blood Escaping Brutal English
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: Overlords seventeen sixties, irishman Michael Fallon becomes an indentured to Charleston,
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: South Carolina merchant Thomas Carver, where his infatuation with Carver's
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: sensual daughter Elizabeth causes life changing complications.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, so that is revolutionary. But yeah, maybe he was.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: He was interested in writing some Civil War period stuff
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: and in fantasyland and was like, yeah, no, Sean Chan
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: will have a civil war. I'll get to write my
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: civil war. But with wizards it'll be great.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's exactly what I was thinking.
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: Like, not the problematic wizards like actualizes.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: But he's got guns, so you can do a lot
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: of like early revolutionary war with guns and stuff like that,
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: Like I can definitely see it and getting deep into
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: sort of revolutionary war times in the Sean chan era.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be a mess. Anyway, we are
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: not staying on topic, have fun editing or radio enjoy.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: Oh right, So the next thing that happens is Van
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: and Dredd rolls up and let's and lets everyone know
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: that the plan's going to have to be a little
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: more complicated than tu on just leaving because Sroths asshole
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: dude and a bunch of bloodthirsty mercenaries are bearing down
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: on them and are in the murder the girl who's
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: dark skinned and small, rather than capture her sort of mood,
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: and so it's going to be a killer be killed.
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: I was hoping you get to help me figure out
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: where these troops came from, because to me, they kind
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: of came out of nowhere. They're Soroths who are they.
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: Led by Elbar the hook knows mean guy that's like
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: he's mean to a GWayne and great hunt like he's
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: her man. He is he is SRO's right hand man.
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: Anything that he does is at her behest and he
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: has a force of quote unquote sean chan, who are
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: actually all like local levy. Again, they're not mercenaries, but
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: they're you know, the sean chan in name only kind
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: of soldiers, right, And yeah, he's he's got them all
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: collected together and hyped up about this. There's a reward
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: if you can kill the impostor tu on. She's not
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: the real two on, she's the impostor two on. And
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: none of them are sean shan enough to really give
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: a shit about the potential problem. I think that's part
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: of why Albar's doing this is because regular sean shan would.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Be like, you might know the difference.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they might know the difference, or they might be
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: like hesitant to like, you know, inflict wounds on the
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: Empress or whatever, the Daughter of the Nine wounds. But
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: local guys are just like, oh, it's just some some
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: noble like whatever, kill nobles all the time's right?
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: Politically, like even if it is the real one, like
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: who cares, Right, there's none of this like demi god
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: shit like regular soldiers would have.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: And then Korea goes, oh, I can slip past them.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: So this is the one thing that makes me a
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: little uncertain, like why is it just that Matt has
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of innocence with him and he doesn't think
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: he can.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: Wait what I guess.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: I'm a little confused as to why he thinks that
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: Careed can get by and get them back when he can't.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: I guess it's just because he's escaping.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: No, Matt, he doesn't think the Career can get them by.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: Kreed thinks he can. And Matt's like, no, you fucking can't. Okay, okay,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: but because Careed is in make bad long odds gambles
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: mode right now, just like I can do anything. Two
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: one's here and she's married for some fucking reason, who
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: knows what's gonna happen. I can get past them. And
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: Matt's like, come on, calm down, be real, be real,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: that's not gonna happen. But he also realizes, like the
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: plan was just for Career to take two on and run,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: And now Matt's saying that's not that's not enough, Like
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: even if you could, like you'd have to run through them,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: like it's it's not gonna happen. Like you can get
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: her out if those guys aren't fucking with you, right.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: That's the thing is that Matt says, leave me some
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: of your guys so that way they're not sure which
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: party has two on, and then we'll make sure there's
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: so much noise and so much fanfare that you're a
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: little tiny party with actual two on can like actually
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: slip away.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so he's over here like banging the drum, saying
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: look at me.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, st quiz. Obviously, the much larger force is where
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: the target's going to be, right right. You wouldn't put
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: the target with like a handful of bodyguards. You put
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: the target in the middle of a pristling headchog.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: Also, you wouldn't put the target back to right where
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: you took them from.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: Also that right, so it's it's very easy for careed
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: to get her out if the people that are in
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: that are the problem have a distraction. And Matt's like,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: all right, fine, I'll do the thing I hate most
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: in the world, put myself in danger because now I
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: have a wife and I have to protect her. I
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: do like that. Matt has finally realized that work is
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: in fact better than battle, that battle is one of
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: the worst things you can do. Once he had thought
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: that fighting battles was still better than work. Near enough,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: nine hundred dead in the space of a few days
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: had changed his mind. Again, this is the kind of
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: growth that is about to level out when we switch books.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: But this is like, oh, like he's hockey sticking on
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: his growth right now, you know.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: Right right, Yeah, he's normal. He's like, oh, battle does suck, right,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: even after after all of his memories of all the
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: battles he was in, he has to experience it in
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: person to realize that, like, work is actually not as
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: bad as fighting war.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's a nice moment of like, wow, he
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: is He's not just leveled up in terms of his year,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: he's like leveling up in his mind. He's married, he's
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: would rather not be doing general shit like, yeah, this
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: is very different than a few books ago, Matt, and.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: Very different than the next book Matt. Uh. Yeah. And
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: then you get this switch again, pov switch. Once we
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: get to the end of that where we're back in
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: Tuon's head as she rides away.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she thinks about, you know how easy it
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: is to take off, right, she has exactly one human
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: connection to wrap up and like two items that are
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: worth taking and everything else, all the clothes that Matt
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: bought for her, all the labor that went into so them,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: she just drops it. All all those clothes, all those
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: tiny little pleats, it's all boom. Anyone else can pick
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: through it and have it.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: Well because that was always part of the game. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: that wasn't even about the clothes. It was part of
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: the game that she was playing with Matt exactly.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: But she keeps the rosebuds because that was like his
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: first real overture to her, Like that was when she said,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: I've changed my mind. I think you play very well,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: like the silk rosebud. Is that? So she's like, now
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: I'm going to keep one token from my husband. But
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: the rest of it is all just nonsense. And the
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: only person she says goodbye to is Mistress on On
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: because they actually had robust intellectual debates rather than just
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: weird browbeating.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Because Mistress on On was a nice to eye without
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: the baggage of being a channeler. Yeah, and so she
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: could have the intellectual debate with Mistress and On she
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: should have been having with all of the ice eye.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's something to be said for passing is not
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: what you are.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: And of course Tuoon can sense the the ability to
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: channel on people because she's a channeler herself, right.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: But Mistress an On doesn't have that.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: Nope, she's safe. And I like Careed's assessment of Matt. Yes,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: a good general, high lady, brave, but not overly brave.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: He won't get himself killed just to show how brave
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: he is, I think. And he is adaptable, a man
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: of many layers, and if you'll forgive me, high lady,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: a man in love with you. I saw how he
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: looked at you.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: Big dad energy. He's like that. I think he won't
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: get himself killed and eats into you so glad you
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: got married.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, he loves you and he's not an idiot.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: That's like about his high praise as you can get
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: from a dad figure.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, especially when who just met the dude on the
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: day of the wedding.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: Right Well, but in fairness, he has been following him
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: and like analyzing his plans, and like when you realize
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: that this is the man who was behind all this shit,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: he's like, Oh, that's the person I've been getting to
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: know over the last few months.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Matt, and I think a couple of other characters
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: think about how much you get to know someone through
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: the act of doing battle with them. So yeah, I
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: think the career definitely does feel like he knows he
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: knows Matt parasocially, like our audience feels like they know
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: us because they listen to us, but like we don't
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: know them at all. Like Matt doesn't know Creed at all,
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: but Kreed's been following Matt's work and really likes him
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: a lot. It's a parasocial battle relationship.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Matt Coffin made an onion look like an apple.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: Take that Shrek, I know, I know.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: Every time I read that, I'm like, honestly, did it
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: better than Shrek? Like yeah, yeah. She says she wants
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: to cut her hair, and Kared is like, you don't
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: want to go incognito a little more like nah. At
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: this point, incognito is not is not the move I
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: gotta go, I gotta go cognito.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: Well, and now she removes the veil. At this moment,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: she is no longer the high lady Tuon. She is Fortuna.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: She doesn't know that yet. What she doesn't know that
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: the rest of the of the royal family is.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: All dead no, no, but she is no longer just
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: a high lady. She is y the daughter of the
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: nine Moons. She has removed the veil. This is the
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: moment when she becomes the daughter of the nine Moons.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: I don't think she changes her name, Anna. I think
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: tu On is still her name. She's not Fortuona yet.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, she's out from under the veil.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: No that, because I'm pretty sure being under the veil
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: she was going by tu On. Her full name is Fortuona,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: and as the daughter of the nine Moon, she is
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: for Tuona, daughter of the nine Moons.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: Wait, Tuan is a diminutive of Fortuona.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what, it's right in the middle of it.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go bury my head in the sand and dine.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: Now do you want me?
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: Seriously, I've never I thought she picked that name out
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: of a hat because she was an asshole. Who is
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: lady luck And it was just like my name's fortune.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: Look at the chat Tuon for fo r Tuon, Fortuana
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: Fortuana Tuon is a shortened version of Fortuana.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: I literally thought she was like, I married this lucky
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: guys fortuned with an A at the end because I'm
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: a weird it was Robert Jordan was tired.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: Chat is just blowing up that you didn't know that.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: I wow, Wow, ever, wow.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: Her isn't for Tchuona this whole time? And Tuana is
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: just a diminutive.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And she's going by tu On while she's
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: under the veil, because if she was going by Fortuona,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: everyone want to know who she is. So she shortened
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: her name. Tuon is to matt as Mattrum is to Fortuana.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: No one mentioned it in the chapter where she decided to.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: It didn't start out Fortuona decided to put a veil
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: on and then go by two on forever. That's how
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: the fucking book chapter introduction started. She's been two on
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: ever since forever? What do you mean? That's been her
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: name the whole time she puts the she puts the
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: veil on after she thinks of herself as tu On.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: This garbage, This is a bit like this is this
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: is my I totally see it. I mean, I see
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: the spelling. I just I just this is a I'm
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: a bad speller, you know, words are just blocks. I
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: don't for tu One.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, that's her name.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: It's always been her name. Show me her birth certificate.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, so so we're we're we have we have debate,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: We have debate.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought that they took new names when they
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: moved up, like, not the name they had before. I'm
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: so or or or did do you? Is it like
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: the fashion to take your name and like shove it
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: into the middle of another couple of letters and make
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: a new name that way, but it still holds your
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: old name.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's too much that Matt married
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: lady Luck, right, Like, that's definitely her name is Fortune,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: like Matt married lady Yeah, but did she have the
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: name beforehand?
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, no, pants is saying no, she was known as
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: Tuon athm Corey, pandreg that's been her name. And then
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: after Rand does his bullshit, then she goes with being
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: for Tuona. But there's no fucking way that Robert Jordan
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: didn't didn't do that on goddamn purpose.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: Right, I guess you're right, you're right, You're right. Okay,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: And I've never that.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: I've never seen that because because words are blocks to me,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: I don't see them as a series of letters. I
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: see them as pictures. So I am still blown away
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: by tu On being in the middle of Fortuona, But
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: my mind is slightly less blown now that my reading
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: comprehension has been slightly validated. First check comes for me
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: and breaks my brain, and then they come in and
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: prove that I'm not totally crazy.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: There's still debate going on as to whether Tuon was
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: for short for for Tuana or if she made that
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: up afterwards, Like if you name someone Matt, do you
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: know they're gonna and you're like, oh, informal things, they're
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: gonna be Matrum. We just haven't taken that name yet.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: Does that make sense?
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know one of my friends has a kid.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: She insists on using the full their full name rather
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: than the diminutive, and she's like, do not call my
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: child by the shortened version. Called them by their the
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: entire name. But then I also have another friend with
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: a kid who doesn't mind having the shortened version. So
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: I don't think that there's a convention on this side
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: of the wheel.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: But yeah, if you go back and read the chapter
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: where she takes for Tuana, she does describe that as
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: a new name for Tuana, but there's no way like
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: clearly Tuona is part of fortune.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's just in black and white,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: like it's just there mm hmm. There are coincidences, and
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: there are coincidences like that was on purpose with Jordan's part.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: But oh, I wonder if there's an explanation in uh origins.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so the two sides are one she was born
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: for Fortuona, but she goes by her nickname until she
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: achieves power. Or two she was born Tuon and just
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: made up that new name when she became empress.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, her entry for for Tuona says see chuan
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: in origins. Tuolia is the place of the dead in
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: Finnish mythology, ruled by a king and queen Tuana and
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: Touondar as empress, she later took the name for Tuona,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: reflecting both Fortuona, the Roman goddess of luck, and Devi
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: as Sanskrit word meeting gost oh because her name is
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: Fortuna athen devii pandrag Well, Fortunana was the Roman goddess
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: of luck. So that's simple enough.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, yes, So it seems as though in world
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: she invented the name for Tuana when became empress. I
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: do not believe that Robert Jordan wasn't using twuon as
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: a shortened version of fortune.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: Nodding, nodding to that collective conclusion. My brain is seventy
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: percent broken.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: That clearly Jordan knew about that ahead of time. However,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: in World That's it was the reverse. Yeah it is
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: how I'm going to go with that.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, headca, I think that that balances all the information correctly.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: But I can't believe I never noticed her literal old
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: name is embedded in her new name like. But as
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: as Ligion was pointing out in chat like in the audiobook,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: the emphasis on the vowels is different, so it's no surprise.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: I didn't notice it with my ears, like, but it
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: really is right there in the black and white of
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: the text.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: Also, Wow, that was a great way to finish up
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: this episode is to blow your mind on Fortuana is
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: just an extension of two on good Lord, I.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: Feel like the readout's just moot now, Like, it really
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: does feel that way.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: Do you want to do you want to go ahead
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: and do it? This is sad since we're on.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: POV all right, give you I'll read that now that
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: my brain is jelloed in love with her, Perhaps she
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: thought she might be able to come to love him.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: Her mother had loved her father it was said a
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: man of many layers, mattrim Coffin made an onion look
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: like an apple. She rubbed a hand over her head.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: She was still not accustomed to the feel of hair
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: on her head. I will need a razor first thing.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: It may be best to wait until Abu Dhar. High Lady, No,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: she said gently. If I die, I will die as
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: who I am. I have removed the veil. As you say, Highness, smiling,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: he saluted gauntleted fists striking over his heart hard enough
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: that steel clanged on steel. If we die, we will
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: die as who we are. You notice that that title
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: change from high lady to highness.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, right, he's gone from high lady to princess. She's
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: gone from high Lady Tuon to Princess Tuon.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: I have removed the veils. It's just a verbal declaration,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: just like the wedding. The wedding was just a verbal declaration.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: Her status is also a verbal declarate with witnesses.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so and that, And little does she know, of course,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: that everybody above her or around her in the government
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: has been killed. And that's why she is being hunted right,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: because they want to finish her Suroth wants to finish
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: her off so she can be the new Empress.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's It's as part of her initial getting back
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: into town info Dump is learning that her entire family
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: is dead. It's like, welcome home, we thought you were dead,
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: like literally everyone else you're related to. Yeah, And also
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: I do agree that, like for Tuona, feels like a
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: formalizing of Tuon, Like that does feel like taking a cute, regular,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: everyday name and like fancying it up. So I could
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: see that being kind of her in world reasoning, being
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: like I like my name, but I need a new name,
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: So how can I like keep the old name while
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: also sounding much more official and regal and all that.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: As when I become Empress, you can call me Sethary,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: his majesty Sethary.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it is, it's her. It's her regnal name,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: and she gets to make up whatever she damn well
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: pleases because she's the empress.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: Right. I mean you went with a radiopedia, right, I
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: mean you took a radio.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: True, that is my regnal name is a radiopedia seth Roth.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: I like that. That's really good, Sethroth. That's a better
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: fantasy name. Feist had a book called The Darkness Cethanon.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: That one was pretty goodthon.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: Well, now we're just having fun. You want to turn
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: recording off. Thank you everybody for joining us again this week,
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: and we see next week for the final chapter before
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: the eplogue in Knife of Dreams. And that's what you
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: get by being alive, which is the first thing I
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: said when I turned recording on.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, some things only the live people know, and that
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: is currently four people. There are currently four people who've
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: got to hear all that everyone else. No, Oh, my
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: signal should be better this time. I had some components
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: swapping and setting. Real audio was bad the last two recordings,
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: and this time it looks good and I'm very happy
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: about that.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: Oh no, what happened.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: Well, I was bringing another microphone. I had to pull
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: everything out of here, so I was trying to record
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: with my mom. Oh yeah, I wanted to record together,
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: so I had to pull my equipment out, which meant
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: unplugging everything. Then she brought another microphone into the picture,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: and by the time I put it all back, nothing
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: was the way and I don't remember what the settings were,
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: So it's just sort of a brute force like working
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: my way through it, and then sometimes I swear it
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: just refuses to do things until I let it sleep
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: for a day or two. Like I swear, this computer
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: has moods. It's just like you need an app.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: Sound equipment sometimes has moods. That's what I've learned. It does,
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: it does, it really does. Yeah. I since I have
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: not listened to a pre edited recording in a long
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: long time. Is my microphone quality, it's still just sort
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: of been the same. I haven't had any dips or
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: anything like that. Yeah.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: No, your mic is fine.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: Your room sucks, that's fair.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: And there is a hum in your space that I
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: have to filter out. And I don't think it's the mic.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: I think it's like a fan running somewhere like away
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: and just creating a background. Maybe it's an air conditioner.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's a heater.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: It was probably the air conditioner. Check this recording because
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: I've removed all the air conditioners from the house.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: I love October.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: I do trying to turn off, so anyway we should. Uh, Yeah,
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: my room does kind of suck.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just there's a noise filter I have to
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: put on yours. But it works really well. It's fine,
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: and you know, it's it's very simple reaper rules, right right.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like the signal is good enough that we
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: can filter it down to be tolerable, to be a
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: good signal for the final recording.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: Plus, like as in the editing, the audio quality of
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: much bigger, more fancy podcasts is shittier than what we do.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: Like some of my favorite podcasts are recording in a
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: room worse than yours, you know, and they don't even
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: bother editing anything.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: And it's just like, I really should be batter about
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: putting this up behind me because I feel like with
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: this up and you'll probably have to tell me, but
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: I feel like that dampens the sound and the echo
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: way way way more.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: Even through zoom, I feel like I can hear it's
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: being different and zoom ruins sound.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: I immediately could hear that in my microphone. I need to
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: be better about putting that up because that really does
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: make the room much much more better, much more closed off.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: But you know, I mean, you were kind of in
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: a chaotic space since you've moved, been there getting married.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: This is the first time you've had the brain cells
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: to be like, how is my sound? And I've just
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: been like whatever, I got it and it's fine, we'll
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: address it eventually.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, I mean this room has been so
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: full of boxes and crap. I mean we still have
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: a little bit of stuff left in the garage and
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: on the to do list is to completely rearrange this
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: room right like right now, it's just still kind of
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: a trash room. Everything else has been taken care of,
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: but this room has not been so one thing this room.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: When we designed this room, we didn't plan it for
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: both of us to be working from this room, but
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: never over the last two years has really works more
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: and more from home from She used to have a laptop,
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: but now she just basically works from the desktop that
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: I have to set up here, whereas I use this
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: desktop less and less than I used to, and I
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: just used the laptop setup since I got this again
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: about two years ago. So it's just there's sort of
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: been this change, but we still sort of both have
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: to sit at the same spot, and so there's two
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: computer setups sort of sitting on top of each other.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: And what we really need to do is get another
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: desk and separate them. Hey, so we can both work
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: side by side and b just so we can have
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: like a little bit of a separate space and I
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: can maybe soundproof it a little bit better. But yeah, no,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: I mean it's god wedding brain. It was real. It
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: was just every spoon I had went into the wedding.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: Even the weird sports at the back of.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: The yeah, even the right It was amazing how much
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: thought and effort it took, especially to do it the
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: way we did it, which is where we didn't necessarily
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: pay people to do things for us. We did a
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: lot of it ourselves, got a lot of help from
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: our friends, and that just takes a lot of coordinating
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: and thought of like who's going to do what, how
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: when they're going to do it, all the planning and
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. And a radio was there
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: for a lot of my planning and decision making, and
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: you know, unfortunately was exposed to a lot of my decision
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: That laughs says a lot right there.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: I mean I included it in my speech. It was
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: such a profound part of the experience.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: Oh so it was fun.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: It's one of my It's one of the things that
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: I do. I've I've figured out like there's just sometimes
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: people just need to process. They don't need me to
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: actually remember shit, just a certain part of my brand,
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: like a cool you get out what you need to
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: get out, just just let it all out.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you for being my friend.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: I don't have many. It was a pleasure. I have
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: a lot of digital friends, but not a lot of
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: people that I'm helping with their weddings.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: Right right, No, Yeah, And I'm very lucky to have
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: the friends that I had because because you know this,
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: I looked around and realized that everybody I cared about
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: at that wedding who I wasn't blood related to, I
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: met because I started this podcast.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a good call in this podcast that
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: that was a very good decision that you made.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: That you know, whether all the ups and downs and
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: sideways that this thing has gone through, I'm still very
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: grateful that I have it and I get to do
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: it every week.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: It's no wild house. Sometimes like the randomest decisions end
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: up pivoting everything right right, You're like, this is there's
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: no way that this is going to be a significant
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: change in my life. It's just a little thing I'm
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: gonna do. And then it's like your entire life will
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: never be the same, Like this chapter will always have happened.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: M hmmm, Like.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: It's kind of wild. It's kind of wild. I mean
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: that's mostly what this podcast has been for me too,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: Like just joining it like randomly one day and then
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: now it's like again, this chapter of my life will
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: never have not happened. It just it can't not have happened.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: I've had these experiences.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: Now, and I know we're doing a lot of reflecting,
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: but I think that because we're coming to the end
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: of Robert Jordan's writing, right, Like, it's hard not to
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: reflect back on the journey because in a lot of way,
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: it's not the ending, but it is a ending, right,
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: It is a ending of our podcast going through Robert Jordan.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: And we've got you know, two more Matt chapters and
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: an epilogue and that's you know, new Spring exists, and
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: we'll go back and do it at the into the series.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: But really, this is the last thing that Robert Jordan wrote,
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: and in a lot of ways, it's hard not to
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: reflect back and for me to really you know, when
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: I started this, you know, I counted how many episodes
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: it took it would take to get here, and I
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: did no way ever thought that I would be sitting
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: in this chair doing a podcast on episode five hundred
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: and something.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: Six thirty six. I don't know. There's too many numbers
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: in my head.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: There are way too many numbers in our head. But
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: fortunately I can actually look at it here. We write
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: things down because our brains don't work, aren't reliable.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: Magic of spreadsheets, we have kept our shit together.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: Five oh nine. That's the episode where we are currently recording,
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: which doesn't count the misborn episodes, the just roll with
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: it episodes, the special episodes, I mean, Broken Earth, Broken Earth, right,
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: that whole thing. And not to mention all of the
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: other podcasts that you've taken on and started.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: Editing or just straight up started shut out, used to
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: sew everyone go listen to you. So it's really fun.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: You can listen to my mom tell weird stories.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: That Bitch is Always late. Is gonna make a comeback.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: I swear we're gonna do a microphone swap and it
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: might get a rebranding.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I talked to Chloe at the wedding. Yes, like,
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: so that podcast is coming back?
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, they want to do it. I think
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: Chloe and Never are fantastically funny. Obviously I'm biased. So
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: you know, take that with a grain of salt. But
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: I think we just need to find the right format
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: for them to be funny together. Yeah, and so I
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: think they're going to reformat things anyway.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: That's that's great, And yeah, I'm.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: And yeah, record them in different spaces so you can
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: edit it better and do all that kind of all
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: the lessons learned from the first first time through.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean, speaking of things that have changed
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: because of the podcast. Now I have the production editing thing,
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: which I want to expand, which means I have to
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: figure out how to make and maintain a website. Like
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: these are not things I was planning on learning. But
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: they're all fallout. They're all fall out. They're all fallout
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: from this. It's all because I Rabbert Jordan. It's wild
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: like I had a crush on a boy in fifth grade.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: He gave me a book and that's where it all
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: fucking started, because he he loaned me every book and
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: it was great and I was just and from that,
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm gonna get a fucking giant tattoo. And
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: now here we are staring down the end of the
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: Jordan pages and it's just like, what is life guys,
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: I just reread Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and like,
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: forty two really does feel like the most applicable answer
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: to explain all of this. Forty two genuinely is the
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: only thing that makes all of these different things make sense.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: I love Hitchhiker's Guide because there's just it, just the
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: absurdity just makes sense. Like when you look at quantum
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: fucking physics, the Jiker's Guide makes just as much sense
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: as the reality we're experiencing. On one level. I don't know,
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: it's just that I love the logic behind it that
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: just doesn't make sense but somehow is comforting at the
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: same time it's absurd.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there is there is this just like nothing matters,
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: so everything matters, so nothing matters, and round and round
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: right right sort of thing. And it's it's either deeply
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: unsettling or extremely comforting.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: Answer is yes, yeah, I find and I find it
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: deeply comforting sometimes.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I was reading it with my grandma because my
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: dad was like, you got to read this, and so
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: I know, reread it with her and she did not
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: like it. She but she also didn't like this is
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: how you lose the time war Like she can't handle
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: that like chaotic, abstract, like rolling forward. This makes sense
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: because it doesn't make sense things. She just she just
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: can't vibe with it. And it makes sense because she
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: is both feet nailed firmly to the ground. Grandma, right,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: you know it makes sense. But yeah, then I come
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: talk to you and it's like, yeah, I know all
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: that shit that she hated is actually yeah what is
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: what makes it unsettling? Also is what makes it comforting,
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: Like you just have to come at it from a
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: more millennial and nihilistic perspective.
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, then she is. It's it's all the different ways
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: you can say, oh, nothing matters, right, because you can
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: either be oh god, nothing matters. You can be like,
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: oh nothing matters, like exactly, yeah, exactly, it's it's it's.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: It can be both very comforting and a very very
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: unsettling thing, depending on I think, partially how you were raised.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: I think there's a certain religious aspect where it's that
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: when you grow up with the idea that everything matters,
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: this idea that nothing matters is this antithesis to what
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: you grew up with, and it's really really difficult to process.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: But I never really grew up with that idea. So
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: the idea that nothing matters is always like, oh that
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: that takes the pressure off.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, totally, same same deal. I was raised by
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: two parents who were very into like whatever the weird
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: wika tradition of the week was and psychedelics. Like, they
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: did not have a firm metric for what mattered and
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: what didn't matter. They were just like, ah, no, I mean,
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: whatever matters, it's fine, and so, yeah, I come from
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: a place of much more like just non judgmental curiosity
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: rather than Yeah, there's a religious trauma some people have
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: where they have to think in binaries and it's like
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: very emotionally latent and really hard to unprogram. And yeah,
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: being raised in a slightly less binary, iified space makes
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: it just a little easier to relax into that nothing matters.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: So I can do whatever I want. I can be
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: whoever I want, I can choose whatever values I want.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: And I do. I find some people who are able
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: to shed religion can't necessarily always shed the entirely binary thinking, Like,
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: it's very easy for someone who finds religion to find
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: some other belief system.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've definitely noticed that, and sometimes even the self
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: awareness completely complete selfware isn't enough to actually break it. No, no,
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: and it's just it is what it is.
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: No, it's and it reinforces just how much we are
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: vulnerable or not vulnerable, but how much our early childhood
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: shapes who we are going to be.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's certain shit you just have to learn how
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: to work with. You're never gonna get rid of it.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: You simply have to learn to work with it. Right,
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: Whatever it is, however annoying it is, it just.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: And I feel like that's there's something about being in
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: Like my twenties was about, oh, this is who I
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: am and this is what I can't change about myself.
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: Right in my thirties was like learning to live with
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: that person. And now I have a pretty good idea
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: who I am and a pretty good idea of how
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: to live with that person. And I feel like that
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: makes me. You know, I'm doing pretty good with that, right,
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: Not always, because sometimes that guy's an asshole.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: One of the nastiest, most abusive people you will ever meet,
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: is right. Yeah, yeah, I only have one victim, but
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: trust me, I am one of the most verbally and
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: emotionally abusive that you never fucking met. I just only
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: do it to myself whenever.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: Never starts bad mouthing herself, I'm like, don't talk that
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: way about my wife. I would never let anybody I
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: care about anyone talk about the person I care about
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: that way. Then I also have to ply to myself.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: But like, you know, can't do that because no.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: I mean I've literally seen my mom and my stepdad
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: both like talk to themselves, like start berating themselves and
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: then be like, hey, don't talk to my friends like that.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: It's like, I know, I know, it's a thing. I'm trying.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: I'm trying. I'm trying. It actually makes me pretty awful.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: And when I get in fights with Brandon, because sometimes
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: the mask will slip and I'll start treating him like
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: I treat myself, and that is never a good dynamic. Like, oops,
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: you got too deep into my sense of identity and
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: now you're you're just subject to the same abuse I
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: hurl it myself.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's problematic.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah I could, But such is the glimmerings of self awareness,
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: rightful and ugly.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's that's where I think I'm much better
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: at stopping myself, if not before I do it, at
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: least very early. On in that process and being like, ooh, sorry,
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: that was me, My bad.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, noticing it first, then being able to carve out
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: that microsecond of space. It's it's the work of years.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: It's literally the work of years to get to that
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: fucking point. And I M, yeah, yeah, thirties, thirties is
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: learning to live with it. I would agree with that
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: as a thirty four year old, And I.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: Just wish that the forties didn't also mean you don't
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: have to figure out how to live with a body
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: that's slowly falling apart.
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: That. I do feel like as a person living in
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: the country, I should be able to avoid that. But
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: do I go outside where the exercise equipment of the
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: country is no, because there's bugs and it's sunny.
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: I'm lucky that I've had very physical jobs. I think
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: that that's rand.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: It is like, yeah, finally feeling well enough in his
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: body and also having time to start actually getting back
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: to using it. But like because of his ankle injury,
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: he really hasn't been able to exercise properly in like
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: two years. Yeah, and he's like trying to like jack
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: up a building that needs its you know, foundations, and
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: he's like, I am so sore, I'm so winded, I'm
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: so tired of Like, yeah, two years.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: Man, you lose it fast.
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: He was really fast, and you know it's he had
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: a choice. His ankle got fucked. But like, nonetheless, like
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: with all that's gone on, he hasn't been able to
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: do shit for two years, and it's like he used
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: to be so just like could go forever like and
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: he'll he will be again soon, even though he is
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: almost forty, like, but yeah, he's sort of horrified and
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: how quickly you lose it.
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: So we are way off topic because honestly, it's been
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: a lot. It's been a lot. It's fun to hang out,
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: like we yeah, we did so much together for the
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: wedding and so much hanging out. It's like it's really
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: nice to just chill.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: But we do have a job to do.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: We do have a job. We should probably talk about
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: a chapter because all of this needs to go to
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: the end of the episode.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: Quite It's always funny, like the music ends, all of
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: our after chatter ends and then be a little break
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: and then it will be us starting up at the
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: very beginning, all shipper, right, completely different headspace.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: Uh, well, you know, I think it's good to get started,
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: to get a little practice into us, get into the
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: rhythm before we talk about the chapter. So yeah, for sure,
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: sometimes that takes longer.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: Please rate and review us on your podcast app and
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: consider supporting us on Patreon for ad free episodes. Watt
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: more podcasts from Fox and Draven Media, visit our website
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: at Foxendravenmedia dot com.