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Pax8 Roadshow Special - Phylip Morgan · Partnerships Unraveled

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Partnerships Unraveled, the podcast where we dive deep into the mysteries and secrets of partnerships and the channel.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Coming to you from PAX 8 Beyond, I'm glad to sit down with Philip Morgan from PAX 8.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm fantastic, Michelle, and thanks for uh getting me on the show and having the opportunity to talk to you today.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really looking forward to this one.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, a lot to talk about.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: But to begin with, can you give me a little bit of an introduction about yourself and a bit of your background?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um I'm Philip Morgan, and today I am Senior Vice President of Marketplace and Channel Expansion IMIMEA.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And basically that's a code name for I'm helping partners transform from MSP to MIP.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but my history is I'm a according to CRN, I'm a veteran of the industry now, which means I think I wrote a note about that.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, which means I think I should be retiring or something.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm I love what I do, and I uh I'm a former MSP and exited uh my MSP uh business in uh 2000.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you've basically seen both sides of that coin almost.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, that that's brilliant.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um I took a look at your profile, obviously.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: I found out you're you're a veteran channel chief.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's wonderful to hear into great accolades.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: But what I noticed with it was that you spent 30 years, over 30 years, building scaling tech companies.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now I know that over the past 30 years, there's been a lot of buzzwords, right?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's been a lot of trends, some stick, some don't.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think a good example for me is SAS.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, SAS before it became real SAS, everybody said they were SAS and they just had like a server in a basement somewhere.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then it stuck, it became real, and now multi-tenant sauce is table stake.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious, what convinced you that the MIP MIP transition isn't just another rebrand, but a real structural change in what partners can do?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, my the business case for that would be what we are seeing right now, okay?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you saw uh Scott's presentation this morning, um, which is basically the prophecy that he gave us really back last year.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: We see it really big happening before our very eyes.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um, Scott and the team's view was that this was not an evolution, so we couldn't go and say, you know, because we say in the industry, don't we?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Msp 1.0, 2.0, 3, uh 2.5 at best, maybe.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And Scott and the team's view was this was an a revolution, not an evolution, right?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: This was like steam, electricity, the PC, all of the cloud, all of these things that we see.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: It was a cataclysmic change that was going to give us cognitive power that we've never had before.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we see that happening right now.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, things like, for example, Michelle, you know, you know, we used to talk last year about the accuracy of them.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we'd be talking about hallucinations and everything else like that.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, a lot of that, they get it, the models are getting better and better and better.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and we don't kind of talk about that much now.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really the business case that we'd be making for why MIP is possibly here to stay.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I think that's a fascinating angle.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I also think that obviously you need people to carry that, you know, that to carry that narrative.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, how are you empowering M uh MSPs or MIPs at the moment to to trust that vision and to start uh putting their ducks in a row to actually get there in the coming, let's say, year, or if we look at how fast AI moves the next week?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: So the first statement that I was saying, Michelle, is you you actually don't have to change.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're still selling fax machines today.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: We we are really fancy ones.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: We there are there are thousands of companies across the planet that are doing break fix, right?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell you what, I love it because if my phone's broke, I want somebody to fix it, right?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so break fix, you can make an honest living out of lots of different things.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: The business case that we are making is that the opportunity for the trusted advisor, can I use that phrase rather than put it into MSP or whatever it is, right?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: The opportunity for the trusted advisor that the MSP is, is moving from being the technology advisor to the business to becoming the business advisor to the business because they have to manage and they have to put the governance, risk, and compliance around the humans that are in the workforce, okay?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Cybersecurity awareness training and all the stuff that you have to do every day, right?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Human risk, yeah.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Human risk.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we have to manage intelligence risk in the same way, right?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: We're all gonna have digital team members, we're all gonna have agents working for us one day.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, who's gonna manage that workforce?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the MIP play.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I think that makes a lot of sense.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it also obviously it's it's not an easy shift conceptually, right?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because these these um not only solutions keep popping up, but obviously also threats keep popping up, challenges keep uh popping up.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: So every time AI moves forward, the threats coming into AI move forward as well.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a lot of this is really about also engagement, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: So how would you say that Paxate is maybe shaping their engagement model to bring MSPs along on this ride?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think we're gonna see, first of all, what we are trying to do, you know, lots of announcements that we've done today in terms of the Managed Intelligence Alliance.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, so starting at that level, we're trying to work with Microsoft and the frontier firm, other frontier firms to actually bring order to, I'm not gonna say chaos, uh, I think that would be unfair.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, bring order to structures that are required.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, we saw anthropic and the release of a model context protocol, MCP.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of a little bit of a breakthrough moment of how agents are gonna talk to agents.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Or think about let's go back IP IP version four, right?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're now running out of IP addresses, IP version four served as well.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to version six right now.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So there's lots of connective tissue that's required for the intelligence layer.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we are trying to move the market at that level and bring it all the way down then to agent store and tools and technology and services and the managed intelligence services that we've launched today, those four key products that we've done.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Then we're coming down again around enablement with things like the MIP program that we've actually shown the how of the why of the um uh the Agentic Affection Point report we released last year.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and really trying to empower those MSPs that want to move to become managed intelligence providers, but they've got the help and support and the tools to do it.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, fascinating.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you're talking about those partners that really do want to make that shift or that revolution, uh, and empowered by your programs, empowered by your tools, empowered by this vision, I would almost say.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what do the partners that do that best, what do the MSPs who do that best have in common?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the first thing I would say that they have in common is they are really taking the time to look at the opportunity and assess it.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I mean by that, I know personally two MSPs in my country in Wales.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's where I live.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I know two MSPs that have looked at the market and where it's at at the moment, and they will not be making the move to become an MIP.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: They will not become a managed intelligence provider.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: They have enough business from IT services and the support and security layer of what they're doing, and they have made the decision is they're gonna partner with a managed intelligence provider.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: So the the mindset, skill set, and tool set that's required to do things like data and AI readiness assessments, uh, to do the governance, risk, and compliance, and then equally the tools that are required that would come from our agent store rather than our marketplace, right?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, those tools are different.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then the way that they need to be connected together and work together in a business is slightly different.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: So the skills that we're doing, um, and the big thing that I am trying to encourage people to do is to step back and assess the market and then make a decision.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you want to go the managed intelligence provider route, reach out to your cam, reach out to our academy team, consume all the learning and say, right, how can I believe begin my journey today?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's such a unique perspective.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Something triggered a thought in my mind.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like how you approach tech ecosystems, right?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh if you have a solution, you can go direct to market, but sometimes you don't have a full solution for a complex enterprise play, and you work with other tech vendors to make that happen for the end customer because it's about the outcome.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about being everything to everyone.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I've never thought about it this way where an MSP can almost build their own MSP ecosystem where the services they provide are uh encapsulated in what multiple MSPs offer, and then you have a an MI MIP that's just split up into different kinds of fractions, which I think is a really interesting way of looking at it.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I agree with you.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the reason I agree with you is because I prefer this term trusted advisor.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the reason I think it's more helpful sometimes for us to use that is the MSP or the MIP is not just the trusted advisor or the only trusted advisor to the SMB that they are serving.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Most of them have an accountant or CPA that you would say over here in the US, right?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they definitely have a solicitor or a lawyer that's helping them.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: They maybe use outsourced HR.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them outsource their marketing to a marketing agency.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: So SMBs are used to using trusted advisors.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that partnership way of working um is something that's going to become more commonplace.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of more than a like a gig economy.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: We go on Fiverr.com, find somebody that could do that.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's because there's governance, risk, and compliance required around most of those wrappers.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I need a HR advisor because HR regulation in employing my team, right?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I need legal advice because of the law.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: I need accountant because I've I've got to keep the state happy and pay my taxes, right?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we're seeing in the EU in particular, we're seeing AI coming, uh legislation with Dora coming in, and already we've got numerous cyber cybersecurity frameworks all across the planet right now, depending on where um people decide to conduct their business.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think also for an end customer, um I think it doesn't often really even they're they're not looking behind the curtain, right?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: What an they want a solution that an MSP offers, they want that trusted advisor, and who that trusted advisor works with basically barring any legal conversation about uh they're just looking for the solution.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: And if an MSP can provide that working together with multiple MSPs, I think the end customer will like they're not going to notice.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So building this up internally this way, and basically saying you don't need to be everything to everyone from an MSP perspective, right?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Focus on what you're good at and what you're not good at, find other trusted advisors that you can build this almost MSP ecosystem with.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you, and and that's why I tell us tell MSPs one of the things they need to be aware of in any business at the moment, right?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Is I call them the two DBs.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: So DB1 is the digital buyer, okay?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I have children that are I'm an empty nester now, and I have no teenage children there in their 20s anymore, but they don't want to talk to me, right?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: They will voice note me, they will kind of text me.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: They do not want a conversation with their dad, right?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, they will over a meal if they're coming around the house or whatever is, but it's a change shift that's happening.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: And look, it happens to all of us.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to talk to the taxi driver anymore, we want to get on an Uber app, right?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: We we want to order our food that way through an app.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: So the digital buyer is here, and that's affecting that the way that they purchase services, but equally, the other DB that's here is the death of brand.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you take transportation.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: You and I might be married to brands.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I drive a Mercedes-Benz or I drive a Chevrolet, I love the brand.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna change.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but right now the digital buyers coming in, they see transport as a commodity.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: They don't care what brand it is, as long as it's$200 a month, right?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or$300 a month, and so they want another subscription.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing they actually care about their phone, uh about their uh car, they see the car as a device, and it better have kind of Apple Play and it better link to all my gadgetry because they see a car as a device for transportation.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's an utility, it's exactly that.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I think because the market shifts are happening at the moment, the you know, I'm a Cisco gold reseller, gold partner, that the the those kind of logos that were on the bottom of our websites are less important now than they used to be.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, it's fascinating because I'm seeing that happen in my own life as well, that the entire brand loyalty element is almost slowly eroding and it's almost happening without understanding, like or even noticing that it's happening.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: It I I spoke to a large cybersecurity company recently, and it was fascinating.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: He mentioned the the trade-off between brand equity and selling to millions of customers through white-labeled yes, distributors or telcos or whatever.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: And and I wonder what what challenges do you then see?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, even as PAX8 or as any other company, because brand at the end of the day, you need to differentiate in some way.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you then differentiate if the model becomes brand free?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's a brand.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I'm not sure it becomes brand free.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: What I said is people are no longer married to brands.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: So the thing the brand is shifting to it's all about reputation and it's all about how you're seen within the market and how you're delivering.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: So the role of the trusted advisor becomes more and more and more and more important because now we have basically trust has been digitized, and trust now is gonna be agentized.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, so we're gonna have look in the next three years, your agent is gonna be talking to my agent, a digital agent, right?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's gonna say, Hey, should I have this guy on my podcast go and do the homework?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Nah, give him a miss, he doesn't fit with your brand.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: More importantly, um, I don't think he shares the same values as you.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've checked out his social feed, um, and I don't even think he fits in with you, you know, where you are going on.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that kind of brand awareness thing or trust is changing.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's incumbent then upon the trusted advisor wherever you are.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: So say I want to be an M uh managed intelligence provider here in Salt Lake City.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, someone is gonna look at my feed, both as maybe the leader or CEO of that business and also the company brand and their team, they're gonna check out first and say, Hey, do I really want this company to represent me?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think the shift changes are no longer just technical, they are reputational in terms of that brand piece.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Would you would you agree with me that you're seeing that the brand change and what it means now?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think it's a really good point.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and again, now you're saying it, I'm thinking back and I'm I'm seeing it myself as well, where you're looking at, hey, um, am I looking at how a brand presents itself or am I looking at how people are talking about that brand?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I think you're totally right that it then becomes more of a reputational conversation.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I just wonder, and this might be too too specific here, but does the role of like analyst firms, like Gartner, then become more important or less important?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because Gartner obviously is also a brand, and uh uh these analyst firms, some people took them very seriously, some people take them less seriously, but they do talk about the the reputation and the value of these different brands in marketing.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know is the honest answer to that.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: We we're gonna see where it happens, but I'll I'll tell you one thing I do know, okay?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: I noticed here when I sat down uh here to do the recording with you that you're using exactly the same brand of microphone that I use for all of the podcast recording that I do at home in the UK, uh, and that I put my personal setup for doing this stuff.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: I did my research.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you did your research, but all I did was I called a person on our team called Andy Redmond that is into all kind of A V stuff, and I said, Hey, I'm looking to upgrade my equipment at home, what should I go?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: And he gave me the kit list.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so my proposition is that trust is changing.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and if we have agents doing a lot of the grind and the admin and operational piece, it frees up my time then to have more of a conversation with people like Andy or you and say, Hey, this is what I'm thinking of doing, because you guys are the trusted advisors, right?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: That that would be my case for a non-gartner approach.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe it's gonna be blended.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I think it's a great point, and that almost uh it heartens me because that brings the human perspective back into focus uh within this really complicated, changing AI-driven world where it's like, okay, the indeed the admin grind gets offloaded, but the actual experience that becomes a human-to-human interaction.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think that's really a valuable takeaway from that entire narrative is that these things elevate each other.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's the way it should be.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and um a really good example of that.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: I remember um in one of the um Paxaid off sites we had.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: I remember Rob Belgrave, who's on our CUA leadership team here globally.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: I remember um Rob saying, you know, in this agentic world where we all have the same tools, the only thing that differentiates us is our humanity.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I like what Scott Um Chasen says frequently.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: You saw the slide up there today.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: He says, lead with humanity, yeah, scale with artificial intelligence, right?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think that's the the way we're gonna um move forward.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I love it.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think at one point I landed on human-focused, AI-powered, revenue-driven, which I thought those are the three things you have to manage.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, this is fantastic.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I wanted to ask you while we wind down, do you have any final thoughts, assessments, tips, tricks for the audience today at Tax API when Pomasos?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: The the biggest tip um I would say is you know, regret is a terrible thing, isn't it?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we all have regrets.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I met a few partners today that are regretting the one beer too many or the glass of wine they had last night, okay?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe they should have said no.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but as well as that, we can all and we all say, oh, imagine if we put a couple of thousand dollars on Apple back in the day, and we we all have that gut feeling.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe we didn't do the research into it or whatever.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say, if there's a counsel that I would give, rather than a top tip or whatever, it would be hey, from the lens that I have in the current role that I am in, I moved from being chief revenue officer I mayor to this new role.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: I am living and breathing this stuff every single day.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: I would say if a former managed services provider of 20 years and an experienced business of experienced business executive of 30 years is saying, Hey, take some time to take a deep look at this, do the research, and maybe come to your own conclusions.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's something we should do because regret is a terb of yeah.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh major words of wisdom, worth to live by.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Philip, I want to thank you so much for joining us, and uh for you and your audience, see you at the next episode.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much.