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The (X) Hamster Files - The Pilot (featuring Agent Ioan Morris) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:01
The xhamster Files featuring Agent Joe Ford and Agent Joan
0:09
Morris. Episode 1 The pilot.
0:15
Hello, Joan. Hello.
0:17
How you doing today? I'm, well, I'm ready to dive
0:21
into the world of conspiracies, 90s television.
0:24
We're in sort of virgin territory here, aren't we?
0:27
I've never discussed before program on hamster.
0:31
Wow. I'm I'm thrilled to be the first
0:34
agent to join you on this particular case.
0:37
When I got the Smith that there was anybody out there that knew
0:40
about The X-Files as much as I did, I was like, right, come on,
0:43
let's do this thing and you answered the call.
0:46
So thank you very much. Can I start by asking you?
0:52
What's? Your relationship with The
0:53
X-Files, how did you find it and did you do the run?
0:57
And sort of what are your overall thoughts on it?
1:01
I came across it, I guess, when I was a kid, slightly too young
1:05
to be watching it in the 90s. I have quite a strong memory of
1:09
coming across a book, whether it was a novelisation or an
1:12
original novel, I'm not sure. In WH Smith's in my hometown.
1:18
And then my friend had I think that Squeeze and Tombs VHS.
1:26
I think that's pretty much how they released them early on in
1:28
the UK at least. It was way past my bedtime in
1:31
terms of watching it on BBC 2, so I guess I watched bits and
1:36
pieces here and there. I certainly wasn't following it
1:39
religiously at the time. I then have another memory of
1:43
catching the last episode on BBC Two because I guess they.
1:48
Made the very last episode. The very last episode, because I
1:50
guess they made a big deal out of it being the last episode,
1:54
and by then it had kind of left the cultural conversation.
1:58
Generally, it wasn't. I hope that horseshit wasn't
2:01
what drew you back to watch the run.
2:03
It wasn't particularly, no. Even now I'm not really sure.
2:09
I've seen it a couple more times.
2:10
I still don't really know what happens in that one I.
2:13
Mean today, right, today we're going to talk about.
2:16
The the things that the first episode gets right and wrong.
2:19
As a pilot, that is almost textbook how you don't finish a
2:22
series. But yeah, of course that's.
2:24
Spoilers for long in the future. Yeah, we'll, we'll get there as
2:28
people are apartment to say on these podcasts.
2:31
I then came across it again when I left university and I stayed
2:35
stayed at my friend's sisters for a while and she had every
2:39
series on DVD. So it's one of those things
2:41
where I just watched couple of episodes for bed each night,
2:45
really enjoyed watching it through at that point.
2:48
And I think I did do the full watch through at that point for
2:52
the first time. So I guess in my early 20s was
2:56
when I properly engaged with it several years after it had gone
3:00
off the air. And there's a certain type of
3:03
X-Files episode I'm more keen on, and there's others that I've
3:09
become more tired of the later we go into the series.
3:12
But I think there's generally good stuff to be had along the
3:16
run. The percentages go down.
3:19
The sort of the the squeezes? Or do you veer more towards the
3:23
Anasazi? I'm, I'm way more into the
3:26
monster of the week stuff. Yeah, me too.
3:29
I'm certainly stuff that kind of pushes the format.
3:31
I think the format is incredibly strong for what it is, but it
3:36
absolutely is. It's amazing how far they can
3:39
push it. But that is the kind of stuff
3:42
which was very 90's, the whole postmodern thing that you were
3:45
seeing across television at the time.
3:47
And they took it as far as they could with that style of
3:49
programming. And yeah, those are my
3:52
favourites. But I guess my favorite X-Files
3:56
writer, to be honest, is Darren Morgan.
3:58
So that very specific brand of X-Files is something I'm really
4:03
into. Of course, it couldn't all be
4:05
that. It just would, it would run out
4:07
of steam very quickly if it was all that.
4:10
And the way those episodes work is because they they're sort of
4:15
parodying what The X-Files is. And unless you establish what
4:19
The X-Files is in the 1st place, you can't really parody it.
4:23
Can I do a line then that you'll probably remember?
4:26
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
4:27
He was coming up behind you with a knife.
4:29
You stepped on a pie? Oh, I think it was a custard
4:32
pie. No.
4:32
Was it rhubarb? I never mind.
4:34
A pie. Was he?
4:36
Is he going to kill me, man? They were.
4:38
They're comic masterpieces, aren't they?
4:41
They're beautifully done. Yeah.
4:43
And I think, you know, even starting the pilot, you see what
4:47
Dukovny and Anderson have together, and it only gets
4:51
better than the longer they're acting together.
4:55
Can I put you on the spot for a second and ask you like, think
4:59
of episodes that are absolute highlights that are not Darren
5:02
Morgan episodes because. They're not Darren Morgan.
5:04
Easy. Picks.
5:05
They are easy picks. Well, a recent one I watched
5:09
again was Hollywood AD, which I will grant you doesn't make a
5:16
whole lot of sense. It's not the most satisfying
5:19
episode at the end. I, I couldn't tell you what
5:22
happens at the end, but I just love the, the film stuff, the
5:27
self-awareness. I'm a fan of the Larry Sanders
5:30
Show as well. I don't know if you know that at
5:31
all. No.
5:35
It's a fake talk show. That was written or created by
5:39
and starring Garry Shandling, who played this character, Larry
5:42
Sanders, who was very much like himself, and he was a friend of
5:45
David Duchovny's. So David Duchovny would
5:47
occasionally appear on that show as a slightly obsessive friend
5:52
of Larry's. And then you get the reverse of
5:55
that. It's like a little joke between
5:57
series. Duchovny, yes.
6:00
So he plays into it. So that's that's the one I can
6:04
think of recently that I watched when I think.
6:06
Of when I think about that episode is Duchovny's girlfriend
6:11
saying to Julian Anson, now come on now, I really need to get
6:14
into this role. Can you show me how you run,
6:15
please? And the whole scene plays out
6:18
and Julian Anson is just running back and forth and no one's even
6:21
looking at her at all. Yeah, it's great.
6:25
I mean, there's loads of highlights I could I my mind's
6:29
gone blank. On this like the episode?
6:31
Come on the episode. Yes, that's another one.
6:33
Where they both tell the story and.
6:36
Yeah, very unpleasant versions of each other in their
6:39
respective stories. I think that's probably as funny
6:42
as ending, Darren Morgan wrote as well.
6:44
Just really sharply observed about their relationship and
6:49
it's a kind of style of humour I really, I really do like as
6:53
well. They underplay absolutely
6:54
everything. There's a couple of moments
6:57
actually in this pilot where it's not overplayed at all.
7:01
They just play it a little more enthusiastically than would
7:03
become the case later on with the characters.
7:06
And so that kind of stands out as one of those pilot things
7:08
where just in those little moments they'd make a different
7:11
choice later on. And but they get it really,
7:14
really quickly. That's the joy of watching the
7:17
pilot though, isn't it? It's sort of what they decide to
7:19
do, what their instincts are initially and then how they sort
7:24
of change as it goes along. But my part I, I, the first XL
7:28
episode I saw I will never forget because it terrified the
7:32
life out of me. And now it's, I think it's a bit
7:34
of a dud actually, but I was quite young.
7:36
It's the werewolf 1 shapes in episode 1.
7:39
Do you remember when they go out and it's sort of native, Native
7:42
Americans and they're burning pyres and one of the Native
7:46
Americans is turning into a werewolf and there's this huge
7:50
close up of the transformation of the werewolf, right?
7:53
And it just was the most terrifying thing I'd ever seen
7:56
in my life. I remember watching it in the
7:57
dark, like with a cold sweat, really tight watching it.
8:02
And I was like, oh, I need to see more of this.
8:04
This is great because I love things that that frighten the
8:06
pants off me. Very quickly went back and
8:10
watched the rest of the first season because I seem to
8:12
remember Double double VHS is coming out.
8:17
At one point I swear I had VHS, or at least I I got the season
8:21
sets when they were coming out and watched them that way.
8:25
And it's not hyperbole for me to say that The X-Files is probably
8:31
responsible for my voice plaguing the airwaves as much as
8:36
it is because it was watching that first series of The X-Files
8:41
where something clicked in my brain.
8:42
And I really wanted to understand the nuts and bolts of
8:48
a television episode in terms of production, in terms of because
8:51
I just had never seen anything that stylish.
8:54
And it felt so sophisticated to me.
8:56
I just wanted to understand it, the narrative, the
8:59
characterization, just pulling apart a piece of and I've got we
9:03
had this little Yamaha typewriter and I've still got
9:07
these dreadful little mini reviews I did of like the first
9:10
season, these little paragraphs. Maybe I'll put them out
9:14
alongside this. But from there I then did my
9:17
website where I did much longer X file review.
9:23
Let me give you some kudos here because those reviews were
9:26
definitely I don't know when quite you wrote them.
9:28
Do you remember what year you wrote that was?
9:30
It was about 10-15 years ago. OK, so soon.
9:34
It wasn't the first time I've watched the series, but perhaps
9:37
the second time through I was doing a little more cherry
9:39
picking. Most certainly using your
9:41
reviews to to help with that. Bless you and I was
9:45
complimenting you and your IQ earlier.
9:47
Now here. We are but and I looking at The
9:51
X-Files overall, I was obsessed with the show in the first four
9:56
years. I would say.
9:58
I think I had a bit of a wobble with Five 6.
10:01
I loved when it got sort of more comedy focused.
10:03
So they moved to Los Angeles. Seven I thought was quite poor
10:07
and I would be really interested to go back because I think and a
10:11
sudden discovery. I've had enough by that point
10:13
and they ain't getting on. And the storytelling is a little
10:17
bland. There's some highlights and I do
10:19
genuinely think there's an injection of energy when Robert
10:24
Patrick comes in and Anna Bev Gish.
10:26
But then unfortunately that sort of fizzes out because you take
10:29
Molder out of the equation and a lot of people stop watching.
10:33
Yeah. I mean, the core of it is this
10:36
unanswerable mystery that is never going to have a
10:40
satisfactory conclusion to it, right?
10:43
So just the way that kind of TV is made is they're going to keep
10:47
making it as long as they can. It's not the model we
10:52
necessarily use now. And so it was just built at a
10:56
different time. I think there are a few points
10:59
during the run that you could have fairly satisfactorily ended
11:03
it, and they go beyond them probably several times.
11:08
I. Think that's why I just made
11:09
that. Reinvention in a Because I just
11:11
couldn't do serious season 7 again.
11:14
No, because. It did.
11:16
It did feel a bit. No, I think at that point you
11:18
probably a couple of seasons passed where that main mythos
11:22
wasn't had any relation to anything.
11:26
But I mean, I'm certainly saying as far as highlights are
11:29
concerned, if sort of in the early seasons, they're half the
11:32
series are generally highlights, but there's like two or three
11:36
bangers every single year that you pull out and say that is
11:40
even in those last two years. I don't know if you remember the
11:42
episode release in the last season, which explains what
11:45
happens to John Docket's sum. And everyone's expecting, you
11:50
know, aliens and all the sort of stuff they did with Samantha for
11:53
Mulder. And it turns out he was
11:55
literally, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, going
11:57
round on his bike, was seen by a criminal and had to be killed
12:02
because he saw the wrong thing. And it's an amazing bit of
12:05
drama. And that's like 5 or 6 episodes
12:07
before the series out bowed out. Yeah, that's the ultimate
12:13
X-Files twist, that it was just a normal everyday appearance.
12:17
It was a criminal, yeah. Well, look, let's skip into the
12:22
pilot then and see what we can find in here.
12:26
Now, I, I did a little bit of reading, but mostly all I had to
12:30
do is watch this bloody thing. And honestly, I was taken back
12:34
30 years or so as soon as Sir Marc Snow that that creepy music
12:41
and we're in that forest. I just pointed at the TV and
12:45
went my God that is the most iconic forest in all of.
12:48
Television. How did you feel going back and
12:51
watching this? Because this is old TV now.
12:54
It is old TV but I think we both watched the shiny new high
12:58
definition versions which look great.
13:02
The only floors they use the wrong fonts, of course, which
13:04
for someone like me is it's a shame, but I can get over it.
13:11
No, most people don't notice, but Oh well.
13:16
Of course that the first thing I noticed was there's no theme
13:19
music, which is often the case for pilots, American pilots.
13:23
And I assume it's like a budgetary thing.
13:27
They don't want to commit to giving that part of the budget
13:30
way, especially the title sequence.
13:33
Perhaps more than the title music, but that is also iconic
13:39
that it's weird to be thrown into this series without it.
13:44
I don't think in a way you don't miss it.
13:47
It's just such a part of the equation of the rest of the
13:50
series that is notable as far as a piece of drama you don't
13:53
notice. If you asked the the layman on
13:56
the streets and you just said The X-Files, they would hum the
13:58
theme tune right straight away. Yeah, that.
14:01
I mean, that's something I do know.
14:02
I've just remembered that there was like a dance remix, The
14:05
X-Files theme, really, when it first came out in the UK.
14:09
Yeah, it became quite a big thing.
14:10
And that may have been one of my first interactions with the
14:15
series, with this terrible dance remix theme tune.
14:19
But yeah, it opens up. It's it occurred to me that it
14:24
really is a procedural. It's a crime procedural series.
14:28
And so they show you the, the crime as it were, in this case,
14:32
a paranormal occurrence. And then you're going to find
14:35
out what happens in the rest of the episode.
14:38
And it's so obvious when you think about it, it's such a
14:42
great idea that it seems easy. But it that's the trick of it is
14:47
that and the skill of it, more than the trick is that it feels
14:51
easy because it all works so well.
14:54
I mean, the odd thing about sort of leaning into paranoia and
14:59
conspiracy theories is that it feels so hokey now because we've
15:03
had 30 years of it. But when this came out, that was
15:06
quite fresh, wasn't it? Like, I don't, I don't remember
15:09
watching anything that sort of went down this rabbit hole too
15:12
often. No, I'm I'm not really aware of
15:15
what the cultural context of it was.
15:19
I tend to think the stuff in the 90s, the 90s, his, you know, in
15:23
terms of history was kind of a fairly peaceful, fairly stable
15:27
era compared to now, at least it feels like.
15:30
So I think it's in those stable, more peaceful eras perhaps, that
15:36
you can start to pull at these threads these days.
15:39
If you did a series about a conspiracy theorist in the lead,
15:43
then it would have a whole different feel, I'd imagine.
15:45
Then, well, there's talk of them doing a reboot, isn't there?
15:48
But so that is a fascinating thing about it is that you've
15:52
got this protagonist who is so anti government, I'm not sure,
15:58
anti government, perhaps that's the wrong term, but he doesn't
16:02
trust the government. And that does, I would imagine,
16:06
feel like a fresh protagonist in 1993 when it comes out.
16:11
It's sort of bold for America, you know, to examine the
16:14
hierarchy of power when given. You know, there's a fair amount
16:18
of political indoctrination in America.
16:21
Oh sorry, no, that's my conspiracy theories.
16:24
Now, I'm sure they'll emerge as this goes on.
16:27
Of course. And then, well, we'll Fast
16:35
forward right to the end because the end is no dropping the stuff
16:38
off in the Pentagon. And so I wondered, oh, is that
16:41
like a new building at the time? But no, it was 50 years old at
16:43
the time. And I have to think people knew
16:46
of the Pentagon in America. How much it was known
16:49
internationally, I don't know. But I guess suggesting a proper
16:56
government conspiracy would have been kind of a, a new thing to
17:01
see on TV. I'm not sure, Right.
17:03
It feels like it, yeah. She's there getting the
17:06
assignment at the start of the episode and our cigarette
17:08
smoking man is there, you know, drawing on this fag on the
17:12
filing cabinet, but and without a single word of dialogue and
17:16
somehow being menacing because of it.
17:19
And then Fast forward to the end, he's the one that obviously
17:22
heads into the Pentagon and puts the alien implant into that.
17:25
And that's such a potent image that last.
17:27
It's sort of that huge warehouse full of alien gobbins, or so we
17:32
assume. Like Can you imagine this was a
17:34
one off and this was never picked up as that is a that
17:37
alone is a premise I think that's just ripe to be explored.
17:41
It is, yeah. It's it's kind of interesting to
17:43
me how close it gets to being a one off.
17:46
You feel like if they had another 30 minutes, you could
17:49
get to the point where Scully believes it entirely and then
17:55
you've got a big action based pay off or something.
17:58
Because that's the fascinating thing about about this is that
18:01
it's really how close she gets to believing it all.
18:05
And then you've got to pull right back to make it a long
18:08
running series. Sometimes unbelievably so.
18:12
But it's nicely done in this pilot, I think.
18:16
At the end there, yeah, when he's seeing a foolproof of
18:18
everything that he's ever thought.
18:20
And she's just over the rise and goes, oh, I saw a light.
18:23
What was it? Yeah.
18:25
It's like. It's the first instance of him
18:28
not quite seeing what happened and.
18:32
That happens many times. In Oh yeah, it does.
18:35
And this it becomes sort of increasingly difficult to thread
18:40
the needle, needle of plausible deniability.
18:44
The most? Egregious one.
18:45
Do you remember in Shadows the one with the ghosts?
18:48
And Molder's up against the wall and he's being strangled by the
18:50
ghost and. He's like, oh, Scott, it's got
18:52
it. And.
18:53
Then eventually the ghost just drops him and then.
18:54
At that exact. Point she walks in the door and
18:56
goes. Molder, what's happening?
18:58
For God's sakes, she. Doesn't.
19:00
Want to slow woman? I think she just doesn't want to
19:02
have to deal with the paperwork. That's, that must be it.
19:04
She's just standing outside waiting for the noise and the
19:08
lights to die down. And then she goes, oh, I didn't
19:10
see it, sorry. Well, I've got a question for
19:13
you then. How do you think this works as a
19:17
pilot in terms of 1, delivering the premise of the show and two,
19:24
enticing you to watch more episodes?
19:27
Because I think that's sort of the 201 introducing the
19:30
characters. But let's let's do those two
19:31
first. I think it's a great pilot.
19:35
I I'm fascinated by pilots of first episodes because they are
19:39
so tricky to do. What you choose to put in, what
19:43
you choose to leave out, just getting the basic premise over
19:49
is a tricky thing to do. What this has that you can't
19:54
fake is the chemistry between the leads.
19:57
And so it could be a lesser pilot and still have that and
20:01
you'd be drawn in by them, I think.
20:04
But it does everything very purposely and intriguingly.
20:10
The first time we see Mulder and Scully together, you immediately
20:15
set out the basic dynamic of science versus faith or
20:20
scepticism versus belief. And just in that one scene,
20:24
you're going, OK, I know how this is going to work from now
20:26
on. And so it then the rest of the
20:29
episode becomes a bit of a push and pull of how much is she
20:35
going to believe? How much is he going to be able
20:37
to convince her? And there's a yeah, as we said,
20:40
there's a point in the episode where he almost has to pull her
20:43
back, which is great that we get there.
20:45
Even the first episode, it's after that bit where she gets a
20:49
little bit loopy in the graveyard, which is a
20:53
wonderfully played scene. It is one of those she.
20:56
Just starts laughing at the mouth.
20:57
And that's one of the that's that one of those examples I was
21:02
mentioning earlier of perhaps she wouldn't have done that
21:04
later on. Perhaps that doesn't quite feel
21:06
like the character, but it's so lovely here.
21:11
And then in the next scene, they're going to see Billy
21:13
Miles, and he's got the stuff on his feet and she's convinced and
21:17
she's going, I'm going to write this up.
21:18
And Mulder is the one who has to pull her back, which is a lovely
21:22
little reversal in their dynamic to have that set already.
21:26
She's going. Billy Moles was in the.
21:29
Forest it's completely impossible like.
21:32
Yeah, but the fact that he has to pull her back just a little
21:38
bit shows how well established the dynamic is already at that
21:41
point in the first episode that they can reverse it.
21:45
And you feel like, OK, I'm getting all of this.
21:49
Like, he's mine to her, isn't it?
21:50
No, dude, yet. But you've got to write it up in
21:52
your report, right? You have to justify this this
21:56
this theory that you now have. Yeah.
21:59
Whereas they all think I'm mad already.
22:01
Yeah, I can get away with that. Sorry.
22:04
What was your second question about?
22:06
Well, and and in in terms of enticing you to keep watching.
22:11
Wholeheartedly, I'm enticed to carry on watching.
22:14
It's it's it's all there in the first episode.
22:23
You don't necessarily get the this is what really clever about
22:27
it is that I looked on for the episodes to come and the next
22:31
one is about the airline pilots, airline Air Force pilots, what I
22:36
mean? And you introduce the mysterious
22:38
shadowy character who's going to be Mulder's mentor for the
22:41
series. That's your series long arc and
22:44
then. Some trouble navigating his
22:46
name. You know on this.
22:47
Yes, indeed. And then the episode after that
22:51
is Squeeze, so you start your monster of the week premise.
22:54
So it's all very deliberately laid out, but the fundamentals
23:01
of the series are set out here and they're so well constructed.
23:08
The the one little off thing I noticed about the kind of format
23:11
stuff was that they list the date on the captions when they
23:14
go to the different locations and it's about 18 months before
23:19
it this the episode is broadcast.
23:21
So that feels kind of weird. It makes a lot of sense if you
23:25
think that these places and names are there to represent the
23:32
reports. I suppose I always assumed
23:34
that's what they were there for, so it makes sense they would
23:36
have a date there, but already it it makes things too
23:40
complicated if you have to think about dates and all that kind of
23:43
thing. I mean, I can't tell you how
23:44
many names of States and places in America that I learned
23:48
because of the that I had no clue about.
23:50
I mean, I didn't know about Oregon before I watched this
23:52
episode, but. Yeah, they mostly look like
23:55
Vancouver found. Or at least.
23:59
You're learning the names, yes, but you're learning the names,
24:02
so that's good. You know my one sticking point
24:05
with and I agree with you. I think they lay down the
24:08
characters brilliantly. The premise is automatically
24:13
engaging because because Molder is down in the basement and
24:20
mocked, and because this is a bit of a, this isn't exactly
24:25
career progression for Scully. They're the fall guys, right?
24:31
And so you're automatically on the side of the fall guys and
24:35
you want them to succeed or you want them to prove what they're
24:38
trying to prove just to to show the God damn authority figures
24:42
above them. You know that.
24:43
Yeah, they're the outsiders within the system, their rage
24:47
again against the machine from within.
24:50
It's really good. Scully's sort of, you know, she
24:53
is on this side technically and is there to unofficially debunk
24:59
The X-Files with scientific write ups of these absurd cases.
25:05
And the joy I think of the first couple of series is watching how
25:09
she slowly moves over to molder side with the more proof that
25:14
she gets and the terrible things that she.
25:15
I mean, there are times when she goes through terrible things and
25:18
then still at the end was going, well, we don't know.
25:20
Do I'm like, I don't know really.
25:22
You were dragged through that school hall by a poltergeist,
25:24
you know. Come on now.
25:26
Yeah. What's the line for you?
25:28
What? What needs to happen for you to
25:29
believe all this stuff? I'm not sure the.
25:31
Only time it's truly awkward is when Molda's out at the show in
25:35
series Series 8 and she has to be the believer and it's like,
25:38
well, you've changed the tune very quickly.
25:41
And she goes, I'm doing it in honour of Molda.
25:43
She has a line alongside that. But the one thing that I didn't
25:47
like, and I think this shows just somebody that's that's
25:51
written some TV but hasn't started a lot of shows is when
25:55
they meet each other. It's a wonderful scene where
25:57
they meet each other down in the basement for the first time.
25:59
You know, nobody down here but the FBI's most unwanted is how
26:04
they both literally say the others bio.
26:08
So we get every single fact about that character, their
26:12
education, their career history and all that.
26:15
And I was like, yes, that was a very.
26:18
Yeah, they do. It.
26:20
Is it is a lot of exposition up front.
26:23
I kind of don't mind because the nature of the series as a
26:27
procedural, if you choose to look at it that way, that's how
26:30
these people talk. They're they're exchanging
26:33
information so they can get on with what they're supposed to be
26:35
doing, which in this case is investigating this thing.
26:38
So. Slyly as well, he's saying,
26:40
yeah, I know who you are. And she's saying, yeah, well, I
26:42
know who. Right.
26:43
So that's that's quite fun. It was just how I was like, OK,
26:46
yeah. All right.
26:47
Yeah, I saw I haven't a complete back story on both characters
26:50
now. Thank you very much.
26:51
Am I right in thinking he implies that she's not the first
26:54
to be partnered with him? Right?
26:56
He's scared off previous ones. Funny I found was when he goes
27:01
wow you rewrote Einstein that is bold.
27:04
I can't remember. The exact line.
27:07
They don't actually, you know, what they might do in this kind
27:09
of thing these days, add a little more friction between
27:13
them, but there isn't actually that much friction between them.
27:16
And I, I think that's nice. They have a sexual tension or
27:19
just. No, I I just mean in terms of
27:22
the opposition, their their positions, in terms of their
27:27
beliefs and what they're there to do.
27:31
Mulder is really quite friendly with her.
27:34
He wants to convince her. Maybe that's the angle they're
27:37
taking. He doesn't want to push her
27:39
away. He sees that there's a chance to
27:42
to make a convert here. And I think that's there's a
27:48
scene in the middle that the story kind of stops for him to
27:51
tell the story about his sister. You know, there's, there's a
27:55
preamble that kind of justifies it.
27:58
But you do get the impression that this is a well worn story
28:01
and he knows how to tell this anecdote.
28:05
And that's his, that's his trump card to get people over the edge
28:11
to believe what he's saying. You know I.
28:13
Also got the impression though that he tells that story and
28:15
people just roll their eyes and go, yeah, she.
28:17
Was quite possibly it is a. Scully actually listens, doesn't
28:20
she? She's.
28:20
Yeah. I mean, it's a beautifully shot
28:22
scene in the hotel. Hotel, isn't it?
28:24
Yeah. All shadows and sort of drizzly
28:26
rain coming down. And it.
28:30
Yeah, in terms of where it is in the episode, it feels fine to
28:33
have that breather there, I think.
28:35
Yeah. I had a thaw about Duchovny's
28:39
casting, right? Because I think Anderson is
28:44
great straight out of the park, right?
28:46
She's perfect casting for Scully, and I don't think she
28:50
puts a foot wrong in 11 seasons. I think she's the incredible
28:55
actress. I think Duchovny's a little more
28:58
nervous to be fronting a show and he doesn't have as
29:03
naturalistic a way because he's got the sort of quirky lines to
29:06
say. And he does get there.
29:07
You absolutely get there very quickly.
29:10
But also as well, how that character is characterized is
29:14
sort of like a geeky, you know, bit of a loser.
29:20
And then David Duchovny comes in and plays him and looks like a
29:23
male model. And I quite like the the tension
29:27
though there between how he's characterized and who they.
29:32
Yeah, he becomes. There's a couple of moments, I
29:36
know what you're saying about the leading man thing, because
29:38
there's a moment early on where they walk into the graveyard and
29:41
he cracks a joke and then immediately turns serious and
29:44
says get this to the morgue or whatever it is, wherever they
29:47
need to look into the body. Thanks.
29:54
They doesn't quite nail. And then there's the moment
29:56
later on where he's whooping and everything after he's discovered
30:00
they've been through a time slip and it just doesn't quite feel
30:04
like the character. So maybe that's, you know,
30:06
that's just a natural thing where the writers become used to
30:09
the actors and then write more to their strengths.
30:12
It just takes time in some cases.
30:14
I can't believe that the network didn't want Gillian Anderson
30:18
because they want to they more typically beautiful.
30:22
I mean typically beautiful. Are you mad?
30:25
It is baffling. It is absolutely baffling.
30:28
I mean, to be fair, and I did say I'll bring this up, her
30:31
Bridget Jones sort of granny pants that she wears in this
30:33
episode, they do her no favours at all.
30:36
I'm not sure that's her. I'm not sure that is her, you
30:39
know. Well, couldn't they have given
30:41
the double better knickers? I mean, come on.
30:43
Now maybe as we, as we alluded to when we were messaging not
30:48
just about this, obviously that is the kind of thing you just
30:52
get in pilots where people are in a state of undress or nudity
30:55
sometimes that you will never get.
30:58
Again. You meant granny pants, right?
31:00
Yes. I've seen so many pilots where
31:02
people are wearing granny pants, it's unbelievable.
31:04
Think of other times when Scully actually is naked in the XRS.
31:09
Nothing is springing to mind. Certainly I think I would
31:13
remember, but I don't remember, I think.
31:15
You would. I know David Duchovny certainly
31:19
is in Speedos in the series 2 episode.
31:21
That is ingrained upon my memory.
31:25
But As for Julian Anderson, I just think she, she knows his
31:30
character. She's done all of the homework
31:32
she needs to do. And yeah, every beat of this
31:36
story, and she's asked to play some pretty wacky scenes.
31:40
She's so compelling. She's so convincing.
31:43
She is. I remember last time I'd watched
31:46
the the pilot episode, I had not that long ago watched Silence
31:51
the Lambs beforehand as well. And you see so much of Clarissa
31:56
Starling. Is that her name?
31:59
It's Clarissa something, I'm sure you say so.
32:02
And that's another very capable professional redhead.
32:08
And you see the lineage there, what they're going for.
32:11
So maybe. Though Clarice don't.
32:13
You Clarice. My God, Clarissa.
32:15
I can't believe I just thought of Clarissa.
32:18
That was another 90s TV show, isn't it?
32:22
And yeah, so I felt you could see the lineage there.
32:25
So maybe there was some sense that that's what she was doing.
32:28
That was like if that was a performance note a bit like
32:32
this. But you're right, she just gets
32:34
it straight away. She's a fantastic actor, but
32:40
almost every moment in this just feels like it could be from a
32:43
couple of series down the line. Carter says that she can.
32:46
She was the one person that came in and and did the audition with
32:51
like a crisp intensity. I think he describes it as well.
32:55
He's like, yes, that's that is it.
32:57
That's what we need for Scully and someone who takes it that
33:00
seriously because she does have funny moments throughout the
33:03
run. She's kind of a serious
33:05
character. She is.
33:07
She can be very funny in an extremely dry way.
33:14
But the other thing is that never once do you question the
33:18
accent. Like, I didn't even know she
33:21
spoke with a British accent until after the series was
33:24
ended. I don't think so.
33:27
That's the kind of thing we pick up.
33:29
A British person doing an American accent.
33:31
Never questioned it at all. Really impressive.
33:35
How do you imagine this series would have played out?
33:39
Because the will they won't. They think it's definitely
33:42
there. They do the moonlighting thing
33:43
in The X-Files and keep them apart for an impressive period
33:47
of time. I think it's six seasons or
33:50
something like that. There was 2 scenes shot with
33:55
Scully's boyfriend as played by Tim Ransom who's in a couple of
34:00
deep space. 9 episodes as Jack the Oh God how do I say it
34:05
nicely, the genetically engineered.
34:10
Right. Yes.
34:11
Troublemaker and they decided very quickly, no, we don't want
34:16
her in a relationship. That's such an odd Rd. not
34:20
taken, isn't it? It feels completely wrong.
34:22
Which? Instinct as well, isn't it, to
34:24
go down like this. This is what's going to sell
34:27
this to to certain people, to the shippers, certainly.
34:31
Yeah, that's that would have been a tough thing to then get
34:34
back out of if they'd set it up that way.
34:39
But you don't notice that that is what was in there in the 1st
34:44
place. That's pretty smart bit of
34:46
editing and especially creative instinct, I think.
34:49
Yeah. What about the mystery that's
34:51
here then? So we open with a young girl in.
34:56
She's in hospital clothes. I can't remember.
34:57
She's in a night dress. Isn't she running through the
34:59
forest? Winds whipping up?
35:01
The lights are blaring. A man with a really bad special
35:06
effect over his face so we can't see who he is, steps into the
35:10
wind and she's gone, you know, And then suddenly people are
35:14
being returned with two little dots marked on their back.
35:18
And. And thus we have our mystery.
35:20
What is going on? Why are these kids being
35:23
abducted? Yeah, and it doesn't feel,
35:26
despite the thing about it being abduction, which implies aliens,
35:29
which is a huge idea, it doesn't feel like too big of a story for
35:33
a pilot, I don't think. It doesn't overwhelm the main
35:37
thing we're watching it for, which is seeing Mulder and
35:39
Scully get to know each other. So it's pitched to the right
35:42
level. The thing I got from it was that
35:46
that you could show it to a non genre TV fan and they understand
35:52
it as a father protecting his son, as being the driving
35:56
dynamic of that story, of the plot.
36:00
So that grounds it in a way that really helps.
36:05
I think bring people in, bring an audience that wouldn't
36:09
normally watch X-Files to watch it because it has that real
36:13
human emotion involved in it and it's easily understandable
36:18
despite all the mad things that happened around it.
36:21
As long as you've got that in there, then I think you're going
36:26
to get the big audience, which you did.
36:28
I think you really hit on something there.
36:30
I I and it is unusual for a science fiction show, which this
36:34
absolutely is, to get like the night of the Super Bowl.
36:39
I think it's Lena Beck's. It's one of the highest rated TV
36:42
episodes of all time. Like, it's an absurd amount of
36:46
people watch that episode. And that's about a man who gets
36:49
decapitated and grows another hit, you know?
36:52
Great episode. But I think because there is
36:57
always 1 foot in the door of normality in The X-Files, they
37:01
never do the alien invasion. That's what Doctor Who would do.
37:05
But you know, they never do all the spaceships coming in and the
37:08
aliens trying to take over the earth.
37:11
And there are as many episodes just about regular people going
37:15
through unusual things. I think that's a really
37:18
important distinction because I I think any the casual viewer
37:23
can watch the Xbox and feel like they're not turning into a
37:27
massive geek. Yeah, that's where, that's where
37:31
having Scully is so important. She's the viewer identification
37:34
figure. Although I think a lot of people
37:36
believed Mulder as well, perhaps increasingly so these days.
37:40
I think it's not the fun part of the premise.
37:42
Though is that depending on where the episode falls?
37:45
Whatever the episode is, you're either on his side or you're on
37:48
her side. Yeah, and it does a very good
37:52
job of like leading you along which path it wants you to.
37:57
I think it's pretty good microcosm of The X-Files of the
37:59
series because it doesn't ever give you any proper answers, but
38:03
it's suggesting to you that you'll probably enjoy the
38:06
journey along the way. So don't worry too much about
38:08
that. Watch 2 very good looking people
38:11
acting nicely, having good chemistry.
38:14
Stylish looking drama like this was a cut above I think.
38:18
What was what? Certainly by the time you get to
38:20
like season 3, Season 4 and they knew it was a huge success and
38:25
they were pumping some serious money sort of leading up to the
38:27
movie, it was sort of a glossy TV the likes of which I hadn't
38:32
seen before. No, me neither.
38:34
I think there were other examples of series that done
38:36
quite well in the UK. Well obviously Star Trek was one
38:40
of those. It was hugely successful in the
38:42
UK after airing in the US and was it V Was that quite a big
38:46
deal in the UK as well? But I'm not old enough to
38:49
remember that. I recall reading that that had
38:51
done very well internationally looking.
38:52
At me like that when you say you're old enough.
38:55
As if oh, I am. Yes, I do remember.
38:57
Don't even know it's wrong. OK, but X-Files yeah was
39:00
absolutely massive in the UK. It was filling the gap that we
39:07
had left by not having any sci-fi that we were making
39:10
ourselves in this country. Just a classic thing where
39:13
they're showing you how popular this stuff can be.
39:16
Doesn't encourage you to make it yourself.
39:19
Now let's just import it. I mean, what was so clever as
39:21
well was because the mythology was drip fed so slowly,
39:25
especially in the first couple of years, was the the, you know,
39:28
the geeks there that want these big ambitious stories.
39:30
You're sort of building a picture and it's getting bigger
39:33
and bigger and black oil and bees and all sorts, you know,
39:35
shape shifters and and all of that.
39:37
Whereas the rest. Oh, OK, it's just bees this
39:40
week. I can handle that.
39:41
You know, like. Yeah, that's I really like that
39:46
format. It's it's almost certainly pure
39:48
nostalgia. But I do like having the Ark
39:52
stuff and then the monster of the week.
39:55
It might be really irritating to watch as live, I'm not sure
39:59
because I never watched it like that.
40:01
I mean I did from from 5 onwards I was watching live and I never
40:06
had an issue. I just always towards the
40:08
monster. As soon as I realized it was a
40:10
monster of the week, I was like, yes.
40:12
OK, so it was in fact the Ark stuff coming in was irritating.
40:17
Well, no, because I, I just don't think, I don't think it's
40:21
a coherent enough overarching narrative.
40:25
Ultimately. It was initially really
40:27
intriguing. And then somewhere around Redux
40:30
and redux #2 where it was just people going around doing
40:34
monologues for 45 minutes about, you know, alien experiments in
40:38
the past. So I was like, yeah, I'm not
40:39
sure what's happening here. Yeah, the other thing I noticed
40:44
or reading up about it was that it was shot incredibly quickly.
40:47
So it's a really impressive that it looks as good as it does now
40:52
when you see how quickly they made these things.
40:55
I just don't know how they made TV that quickly back then.
40:58
What that volume? What were they doing 26 a year?
41:03
Yeah, at least 24. That standard every year, I
41:06
mean, no wonder they were getting a bit sick of each
41:08
other, Duchovny and Anderson. Well, and that just is a credit
41:12
to the former or the formula they build of all these stories
41:16
that can rely a lot on guest actors on different places where
41:22
our leads don't have to be just a really smartly made TV series.
41:27
Do you have any issues with the plotting of this first episode?
41:32
Because I've got one big, big problem with it.
41:35
And that is when Molda goes, yes, I know who's doing this.
41:39
It's Billy Miles with, with no rationale, no explanation
41:44
whatsoever. But because he said that, and I
41:47
think he's supposed to be our, you know, the sort of the one
41:51
charging the episode forward, suddenly the episode just thinks
41:54
that as well, without any. Kind of reason why it should be
41:58
Billy Miles. It is a big leap, but actually,
42:02
isn't it? That is what drives Scully a bit
42:07
loopy, though, isn't it? So I guess that's their way out
42:09
of it is that she's laughing at the absurdity of this dot that
42:13
he is connected. But yeah, it's because that's
42:16
after all that escalation where the their motel room has been
42:20
burned and the Peggy O'dell gets found dead and all this kind of
42:24
stuff. So yeah, I'm.
42:27
Trying to say that they've built a formula where they can
42:30
literally hang a Lantern on how absurd things are.
42:34
Every week I'm not sure if the first episode you could.
42:38
Say that, I think they get there eventually, don't they, in some
42:41
of those comedies? They do.
42:45
It's. It's not perfect.
42:48
You can maybe go one extra step to getting to that, getting to
42:53
that point, but it doesn't really bother me all that much.
42:56
I was quite forgiving about it to be honest.
42:58
There's so much else going on here, is it we are getting to
43:01
know these people and their relationship.
43:03
There is a nice little domestic drama going on in this sleepy
43:08
town that we're that the the mysteries in and there are some
43:13
wonderful set pieces along the way.
43:15
I've just remembered another moment where Duchovny, it shows
43:18
his naivety. You know when the the hotel gets
43:24
set on fire and he suddenly just goes, damn it, and he's sort of
43:29
punching the air with his? Face.
43:31
I was like, yeah, go again, David, come on.
43:34
Maybe he's just stopped drinking caffeine or something after that
43:37
which didn't see it on screen. Calm down a lot.
43:40
But then I, I think everything rouses for a really impressively
43:44
staged climax where, and it's not just because Billy Miles is
43:47
there with his top off, although I don't object.
43:50
It's, it's because, I mean, I think I was convinced that the
43:54
dad was somehow responsible in this.
43:58
And then the fact that the whole thing is answered.
44:01
Who's doing it? But it's never answered why.
44:05
So it's just left completely open.
44:07
And you know, that isn't picked up until the end of Season 7
44:11
Requiem, where we go back to this town and back to Biddy
44:15
Miles, and all of this is finally put to bed because 7 was
44:19
potentially where the show was going to end.
44:21
OK, I had completely forgotten that.
44:24
No memory that whatsoever. And to be fair, sort of they get
44:27
all the same cast members back. Everyone's happy to come back
44:29
and and sort of sing this show out.
44:31
Interesting. OK, but I that is what the
44:35
series does. It just puts these threads out
44:38
there and it can, if it wants to, go and pick them back up
44:40
again. Most of the time it does not.
44:43
But I'm the sort of person that can't watch Unsolved Mysteries.
44:46
My other half loves it. And I just get to the end of the
44:48
episode and I'm like, I know this is called Unsolved
44:50
Mysteries, but I want a fucking answer as to what this has been
44:54
about. And so like, I'll give you
44:57
another example. Lost I only managed to stick
44:59
with for a year because for me, Lost, it just felt like it was
45:03
piling on mysteries and never given me any answers at all.
45:07
And I can only have a carrot dangled in front of me for so
45:10
long before I go. You can let me eat that.
45:12
No, All right, I'm off. Was this satisfying enough for
45:15
you then, in terms of what it resolved?
45:18
It's because it's because I think the there's the monster of
45:22
the weeks as well as the if it was all conspiracy.
45:25
So loss is like one big arc. If it was all that, I think I I
45:29
would have if Carter hadn't given me adequate explanations
45:33
as we were going. But the fact that you get those
45:35
gems like, you know, every other episode.
45:38
Yeah, that's a great show. That is a really good show that
45:41
you do actually get the satisfaction along the way as
45:45
well. So so well constructed for the
45:48
weeks. You always get the answer there,
45:49
don't you? I mean, I do love.
45:51
I don't know if you remember. In the first series, they do the
45:53
Twilight Zone thing. Every bloody week they do it.
45:56
So it's like, OK, the whatever the menace is this week has been
45:59
defeated. And then you get A tag scene of
46:02
like, you know? Oh my God, there was another
46:04
Jersey Devil all. Along, yeah.
46:05
Something like that. Yeah, well, you got to start.
46:10
You got to set up the formula before you can break it.
46:14
I suppose. I was going to ask you, what did
46:16
you think about the pace of it? Because it's quite, in a way
46:19
it's a slower pace because it's that five act American
46:23
structure. It's quite a long version of
46:26
that as well as like 48 minutes. And then it became more like
46:30
4042 over the years. I, I personally thought it did
46:35
pretty well in terms of the pace.
46:36
What did you think? I thought it skips along.
46:39
I mean, it helps that you are going from location to location
46:43
all the time, so it always feels like you're moving.
46:47
But the plot never stopped running, really.
46:51
And it never stopped throwing surprises at you.
46:53
No. Yeah.
46:54
I thought the pace was really strong.
46:56
I mean, I was brought up on this TV in the 90s.
46:59
This is my sort of golden age of television, Buffy, DS9, The
47:03
X-Files, you know, that sort of genre television.
47:05
So that structure I'm so used to now.
47:09
Now I think TV is too fast for me.
47:11
And I quite like the fact that you can have extended dialogue
47:15
scenes, you know, that that maybe injects a little more
47:21
intelligence, a bit more substance in sort of things that
47:24
that the episode's about. Right.
47:27
That's an interesting way of looking at it.
47:29
Yeah. What I what I do like about
47:31
these 2224 episode series is that you have the time to drop
47:38
things in in a very small way. I think we've just the way TV is
47:43
now, people feel compelled to make big dramatic moves in every
47:47
episode. Otherwise people are going to
47:49
get impatient. But with this kind of format,
47:52
you don't need to do that. And just a little bit in each
47:58
episode or every other episode even really bears fruit over a
48:02
long period of time. I think that's why people feel
48:04
the attachment to these characters that they maybe do
48:08
with the maybe they don't with series that are shorter now that
48:13
only happen every two years or something because it's that
48:16
difficult to make TV is that expensive.
48:18
These people were on your TV every week for like half the
48:21
year do. You think the fact that this is
48:25
a procedural, because I think people binge what shows when
48:30
they know the format of what they're going to get, stuff like
48:33
Grey's Anatomy and things like that, you know, that always does
48:35
extremely well for people sort of repeat watching because you
48:39
sort of know the structure of the episode.
48:42
Yeah, I think The X-Files, whilst being a science fiction
48:46
show, whilst wanting to do crazy things, there is a comfort in
48:51
knowing up with Mold and Scully and Scully going, oh, why are we
48:56
going there? And Moldy going, come on, it'll
48:58
be a good holiday. And then they go, and then
49:01
terrible things happen, and then big set pieces, and then it all
49:04
gets tied up with a a file at the end.
49:07
Yeah, this comfort is exactly the word.
49:09
It does feel kind of reassuring to have those beeps along the
49:14
way, those ad breaks. And something you kind of notice
49:18
now with that era of TV is that at the start of each new ad
49:21
break, they just repeat the same information you left with before
49:25
the ad break. You know, like are you saying
49:27
blah blah blah yes, I told you that 2 minutes ago.
49:30
Mini cliffhangers you get though in 90s TV going into the ad
49:34
breaks. Yeah.
49:35
A dramatic exclamation or a plot twist?
49:38
I think it's great. I think it were it gives you
49:41
the, the scaffolding around which to build your, your story.
49:46
OK, it can become formulaic, but if, if used correctly, it's
49:50
really fun. It's why we love the
49:51
cliffhangers and Doctor Who. You know, they, they draw us
49:55
back the next week. That's what they're there for.
49:57
But I think as well, the fact that it is a procedural, that is
50:00
it could be predicted how an episode is going to be plotted
50:04
is when when they get confident. So especially in three, when you
50:08
have those three Darren Morgan scripts and it shakes things up,
50:12
it really you pay attention like War of the Coverages where
50:15
you've got Molder doing the and Scully's at home washing her dog
50:19
for the whole episode. And they're just doing.
50:20
Phone calls to each other throughout the whole thing.
50:22
You're like, what the Hell's this?
50:24
Yeah, why are you going together?
50:27
Yeah, they mentioned the episode I mentioned earlier, Hollywood
50:29
AD where they've got Skinner in the bath in that three-way
50:33
conversation on the phone. Just great.
50:36
But you have to do this pilot episode before you're allowed to
50:39
do that. That's.
50:39
Right. And you've got, well, you've got
50:41
to nail it right. You've got to nail that format
50:43
for yourself. And I think that's what this
50:46
does brilliantly. There is an assuredness in what
50:50
they're doing. I think Carter, and I wouldn't
50:53
always say it because I think Carter is a very unreliable
50:56
writer of his own show. He veers for me between
50:59
delivering the absolute best and the the most pony episodes that
51:03
they did. Yes.
51:06
God, what's that one in? What's that one with the
51:08
computer games called? Do you remember that one with
51:11
Scully going into the computer game with a couple?
51:13
Of guns. Yeah, unfortunately, I do
51:15
remember that. Thanks for reminding me.
51:17
But he also did like Dwayne Barry, you know, which is an
51:20
absolute banger. Yeah.
51:23
Is the Yeah, I think he's very confident about what he's got
51:28
here, and he's really confident in delivering it in this first
51:32
episode. Yeah, as a production, beyond
51:35
the the cast who are great as a production, it is absolutely
51:39
spot on in every regard, apart from the fact that Mulder wears
51:45
a suit that doesn't match. He wears like different coloured
51:48
trousers. What's going on there?
51:49
I don't know if you watch. Around Series 5 is when they
51:52
suddenly get really tailored. Then, you know, Julian Anson has
51:56
been declared the sexiest woman on the planet by FHM magazine at
52:00
this point. And so suddenly they're just
52:02
wearing shades and tailored costumes and they look
52:05
absolutely like movie stars, didn't you think?
52:10
Just one other point was I just thought the direction and I've
52:14
got the man's name here and he only did this episode, Robert
52:18
Mandel. Oh right, just this.
52:20
Yeah, and I'm looking at his wiki page.
52:23
He did like 1 episode of most shows and that was it.
52:27
Not always the pilots. He was that that director that
52:30
sort of came in, did one, made his mark and then left.
52:33
Safe fear of hands, I guess, Yeah.
52:36
What I really noticed watching this was there was a lots of
52:40
lingering on things that in any other show in Grey's Anatomy or
52:45
Casualty or name, any procedural show, yeah, those things would
52:49
just be 10 a penny and perfectly normal.
52:52
But, you know, he's sort of, you know, hovering over a file
52:56
whilst there's Mark, Mark Snow score music playing over it and
53:00
it just become, it feels weird and unsettling in a way that it
53:04
just shouldn't because it's just a shot of a file.
53:07
Yeah. It is very well done and you
53:09
brought him up Mark Snow and just it sounds like The X-Files
53:13
immediately you could drop the score in anywhere along the
53:18
series and it would feel like The X-Files.
53:21
That's really to have all these things go right first time
53:24
round. It's so difficult.
53:26
Most TV series don't have it happen.
53:28
Even some of my favorite TV series ever first episodes.
53:32
You know you it's almost like OK, we have to get through this
53:35
one to get to the next step. This one stands there as a
53:41
really great example of The X-Files and it's really pretty
53:47
special. As far as science fiction ones,
53:49
I think especially are difficult because there's so much to
53:52
establish. This one does have the the
53:55
procedural format there to lean on.
53:58
It does have the, you know, the American Five Act structures
54:01
lean on. So some of the work is already
54:04
done, but the bits that aren't that are so very well done.
54:10
They don't deviate from this, do they?
54:12
Like in the entire run, right up to when they brought it back.
54:15
And I feel that might have been a problem when they brought it
54:17
back because they probably needed to move on then because
54:20
TV had moved on in 20 odd years. Yeah.
54:23
So it's, it's a, it's a, an approach with staying power.
54:28
You know something else and just a very small thing, but I
54:30
noticed loads of rain, probably fake rain, loads of night
54:36
shooting. It might be it might well have
54:38
been they just they just did what they had and loads of night
54:41
shooting, which all feels like there's money on the screen, but
54:47
it also feels so very X-Files. And imagine if it'd been all,
54:53
well, you wouldn't do this stuff all in the day, obviously, but
54:58
it just gets all that stuff spawn.
55:01
It's really, really good. Do you know the the what
55:05
happened in the first series? Like did you did you know about
55:08
how it what very almost didn't get a second series?
55:12
No. So the ratings weren't strong
55:15
for the first series, so it didn't make like an immediate
55:18
impact with the audience. And come what a lot of people,
55:22
including me, considered to be the best episode of The X-Files,
55:26
Beyond the Sea in the middle of the season, it's the lowest rate
55:30
in The X-Files ever. Got it.
55:31
They went down to something like 4 million viewers.
55:33
And in American terms, that's death.
55:36
And at the end of the first series, it literally is the same
55:42
scene that you get at the end of this episode where they're in
55:45
the hotel talking about, oh, and somebody's going to try and
55:47
close down The X-Files. But it's it's mold of saying
55:50
they've closed down The X-Files. I'm really sorry, Scully.
55:53
And that was the end of the show and it was a last minute
55:57
reprieve. I don't think they had anything
55:58
else. And they went well, you know,
56:00
this was good telly. It may not have here, but it was
56:03
good telly. And then halfway through season
56:06
2, those ratings just went in completely the other direction.
56:10
And it just kicked off like, but it was almost a one season show.
56:14
OK. Is it, well, do you know where
56:17
it was that it picked off? You know that it kicked off and
56:19
they start getting the bigger ratings?
56:22
As far as I remember it was around, you know, when Scully
56:25
would got abducted. Dwayne Barrier session.
56:29
Yeah, that is an excellent couple of episodes around that,
56:32
yeah. I think suddenly people that
56:33
cliffhanger wish I'm going to do the line.
56:35
I'm so sorry Molder, I need your help.
56:39
Do you remember on the phone she's screaming for help?
56:42
See, you remember this stuff, I do.
56:44
Remember that stuff? Yeah.
56:45
I think that cliffhanger people like oh boy and I, the
56:48
cliffhanger with the the shapeshifter.
56:52
Do you remember? When he he turns up at Scully's
56:56
hotel room and then mold as Molda, and then Molda phones her
56:59
at the same time and she looks and goes, Oh my God, who the
57:02
Hell's that? I think those those sort of
57:04
cliffhangers in Series 2 and just the IT does lift in our
57:08
second year like everything is on another level, I think.
57:12
I think it does, yeah. I mean, as much as we like the
57:15
monster of the week stuff, I do think it's mostly the Ark stuff
57:19
that got people drawn in that that made it kick off.
57:23
Perhaps they were waiting France as they never got, but that is
57:27
the kind of stuff, especially putting our leads in significant
57:31
amount of jeopardy that got people really invested.
57:34
Yeah. Well, I'm going to do this, and
57:36
I don't ever do this at the end of a podcast, but I fancy doing
57:39
it with The X-Files. And that is if you had to grade
57:45
the pilot. Yeah.
57:46
So we're going from F being the worst of the worst and A+ being
57:53
the best of the best. Where would you put the pilot?
57:58
As a pilot, I think it's an A, maybe The Next Files episodes a
58:02
little bit lower, maybe ABB Plus, but as an as a pilot, it's
58:08
an A it's, it's absolutely up there in terms of this type of
58:12
thing, sci-fi genre, whatever you want to call it.
58:17
And I think it does pretty well in terms of pilots overall that
58:20
I've seen. So yeah, A for pilot B plus as
58:25
an episode. How about you?
58:27
I was going to say B plus because I I agree with you.
58:31
I think as an X file, I mean, that's the first X file.
58:34
It's it's unique. But as an X file, once you've
58:38
done the show, it is almost a little bit mundane.
58:42
But as this is the characters, this is the premise.
58:46
Yeah, it's definitely. So I'd say AB Plus, but I'd
58:50
almost want to give it an A for that last scene of the Smoking
58:54
Man walking through the Pentagon, because I feel that's
58:56
such an iconic image to put at the end of your first episode.
59:02
Let's go B plus then and give it room to get better.
59:05
But that's a pretty high bar to start with, isn't it?
59:08
That is a pretty high bar indeed.
59:11
Well, Yohan, thank you very much for coming on and discussing the
59:16
first episode of The X-Files. Certainly hope I can entice you
59:20
back to talk about more. I'm sure you can.
59:23
But before we out, can you please tell people where they
59:26
can find you if you wish to be found?
59:29
Online, I am. On Twitter I am on Blue Sky
59:31
under variations of the name Yohan Morris.
59:34
I don't I really don't say very much on there at all.
59:38
As I did when I was on another Joe Ford Network podcast.
59:43
I mentioned a an animated short film that I wrote called Spectre
59:48
of the Bear that is on BBC iPlayer currently that is a
59:52
conspiracy themed animated short film.
59:55
It's rather more silly. The conspiracy is about crisps.
59:59
If you need more convincing, it's only 11 minutes long.
1:00:01
If you need more convincing, it's got Craig Robson, Bill Nye
1:00:04
in it. So if you've got. 11 minutes to
1:00:05
spit steaks. You know than crisps.
1:00:09
I know I'm really getting into the important stuff there.
1:00:14
Alien abductions? Who cares?
1:00:16
I love the fact that this this this conspiracy stuff sort of
1:00:19
got his claws. Into you and it came out.
1:00:21
Oh, I could go for hours. Creative endeavours.
1:00:24
I could. Maybe we'll save that for later,
1:00:27
yeah? Thank you so much for your time.
1:00:29
Yeah, you're welcome, Joe A. Pleasure.