Latest / Success Story with Scott Clary / Lessons - Navigating Pregnancy and Work | Stephanie Kramer - Chief Human Resources Officer at L'Oréal

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Lessons - Navigating Pregnancy and Work | Stephanie Kramer - Chief Human Resources Officer at L'Oréal · Success Story with Scott Clary

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  In this Lessons episode, discover the hidden pressures many face in the workplace while
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  navigating deeply personal challenges like pregnancy, loss, and family planning.
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  Learn
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  how secrecy, perception, and societal norms shape these experiences.
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  Explore surprising
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  data on career impacts and uncover strategies to foster confidence and support in professional
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  environments.
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  So two things that I want to go into.
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  I want to talk about some of those other stats and facts that you've uncovered,
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  being the researcher that you are,
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  which is probably the best possible person to write a book about a topic like this
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  because you dive into the details and data.
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  But another interesting thing that you just mentioned
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  is the psychology of this whole experience.
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  You mentioned one word.
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  You mentioned the word secret, and I think that's very interesting because if you have worked, and I'm pretty sure most people listen to this podcast, work a significant amount of hours in a week, you spend more time with the people at work than sometimes you even do with your own family.
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  You know, it's not great, but it's a reality for a lot of people.
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  And when you have something so personal that is a secret, I can only imagine how much that weighs on you.
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  So let's actually unpack why do we have to keep these things a secret from our peers at work?
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  Why is this something that we feel uncomfortable speaking about before a certain point?
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  well you know it's it's one of these things that's there's so many things that people feel um
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  that are hidden that are invisible weights you know that you're you're carrying on your shoulders
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  every day when you show up at work the interest interesting thing about pregnancy is that this
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  is something physical pregnancy and there's so many ways that people become parents but physical
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  pregnancy, there is a literal point where, and I will talk a little bit about the impact on the
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  pandemic, but where it's kind of revealed for you.
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  So, you know, that's one is that you feel
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  kind of a pressure that at some point, whether you want to or not, it's going to be revealed.
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  And actually, that was one of my own personal experiences.
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  I remember because after suffering
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  loss, I was so afraid to share for two reasons.
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  One, I had my own fear of getting my hopes up,
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  you know, and I think like the idea of sharing this good news and then having to backtrack.
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  And the second part, which is very rational, is also the fear of perception.
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  You know, what will change?
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  How will people view me?
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  And by the way, whether or not it actually
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  does happen, and I will tell you that certainly both extremes still happen today in the workplace,
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  I think that there's still this feeling of both the forcing function of physical pregnancy,
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  but also the combination of what you tell yourself and how you feel comfortable.
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  And then also the
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  other side of perception.
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  And, you know, one thing we were talking about earlier, but is
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  the conversations that you may want to have, they don't have to be the same.
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  And I think
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  the hard thing is, and the great thing is actually that so many people now are more willing to share
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  these stories.
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  And personally, like, I mean, I needed to be 10 years in order to be comfortable
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  to be sharing this with you right now.
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  And some women, they may become pregnant and the next day
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  they're ready to share.
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  So one of the reasons why I also wrote the book by delineating the phases
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  is because for some people, the third phase, which is called the hush, which is the secret time,
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  it might be a day, you know, you might be at a place of work where you're super comfortable.
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  And in fact, that might be how you are as well, where you're just more open to sharing.
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  And
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  you'd rather have if something, you know, doesn't happen well, that you'd rather have people around
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  you and other people might not feel comfortable that way.
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  So instead, I try in the book to give
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  some framework that, you know, if it's you, and that's what you want to say, and you know who you
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  need to tell me exactly what you're going to say and others that maybe use language more like I'm
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  going through something personal, I'll let you know if I need anything from you, versus I'm going
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  through, you know, fertility treatments, and I'm going to have these appointments in which they do
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  X, Y, Z, and you need to, you know, both can have the same end goal of making you confident and feel
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  supported and establish what you may need in that moment from whomever that is.
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  Is it HR?
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  Is it your
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  boss?
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  Is it a peer?
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  Is it an ally at the workplace?
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  And they can be done in different ways.
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  So let's dive into some of the data that you discovered while prepping for writing this book.
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  So what are some of the data points that you uncovered?
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  What are some of the common misconceptions that people still believe?
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  All of that, because I think that data is very powerful, and I'm sure there's some positive that comes from data.
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  I'm sure there's a lot of negative and unfortunate realities that are still present in the workforce in 2023 that also came from understanding data.
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  Yeah.
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  So it was important for me to have the data to kind of validate some of the hypotheses and just to give some moments where you could be surprised.
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  But I also was very thoughtful in the book to make sure that it didn't feel like even if numbers show that, then it might not be you.
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  So, you know, as I talked about the hush, that's the middle kind of phase.
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  So within the first phase, I call it BTTC, so pre-pregnancy.
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  I did these studies with college-age men and women and non-gender conforming.
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  And 92% of college-age women said that motherhood will have an impact on their career.
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  And it's funny because some people I say that to jump to that it's negative.
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  And it's just an acknowledgement.
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  And in fact, for most of us, it probably should be somewhere near 100% because regardless, if you decide to become a parent, you know, you're making that decision.
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  So there's some level of that, but that's a really high number.
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  And that's me asking college age women today.
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  And the study is in 2021.
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  So this is not old data.
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  And the second question that I asked that was really powerful in that particular phase is one out of two said they chose their major because of it.
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  And in fact, men were almost as high.
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  So again, not necessarily negative, not necessarily positive, but they were thinking about it.
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  And the funny thing is afterwards, I did some subsequent focus groups with college age women
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  around the country because I was like, tell me more about this because I thought it was
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  a pretty big number.
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  I expected there to be some significance to it, but I didn't expect it to be so high.
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  And they said, just no one ever asked me.
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  And so actually this week, I had an event where I was speaking to college age women
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  And it was so cool to hear, you know, primarily Gen Z be so open and excited to talk about something so personal, including even the word pregnancy.
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  They were like, we're so much more likely to talk about an HPV vaccine than we are to talk about someday becoming a parent.
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  And I was like, well, that's really powerful.
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  And another example, I was talking to them and they were like, well, yeah, I'm trying, I'm about to intern at a company.
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  And I was so impressed that they said they offer egg freezing.
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  And I was like, oh, okay, well, tell me more about that.
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  And they were like, listen, I know based off of the type of relationship I want to have
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  that I'm going to need egg freezing someday to start my family.
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  And I thought, oh my gosh, not only did we jump, I think some of the other women in the
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  group to that, that would be to prolong your fertility.
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  This was making her feel safe and included to go to a company that she could then have
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  a benefit that would allow her regardless of the way that her path to pregnancy would
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  happen would be possible.
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  And I was like, okay, that's pretty cool.
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  So that's the pre-preconception phase.
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  Then I mentioned in the trying to conceive, so the TTC, so trying to conceive, the one
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  out of two saying that that had an impact on work.
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  And I think this one is super, super important because, you know, there's some stories in
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  the book and some women that I've talked to, you could be pregnant at work for five years
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  and not have a baby.
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  And that is that secrecy.
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  That's the reality of all the things that you're navigating, the emotions, the intensity,
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  And also the amount of drive and conviction that needs to happen concurrent to while you're working that maybe no one knows about.
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  So I found that an incredibly important time period to be aware of.
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  Then you move into the hush, so the secret phase.
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  And I hear, again, it was really a focus on those conversations that need to happen.
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  And often the concern about what you think you may be judged.
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  So a lot of that language versus in the push, I actually saw that women had an increase in confidence.
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  So, you know, depending on and I broke it down by subsets on on age, et cetera.
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  But in general, there actually is a boost.
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  So there's also something that's like, you know, you were just asking about the things that hold us back.
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  It's it's almost once it's out there, too.
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  And you're also through kind of the health concerns or you may have new health concerns.
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  But it's interesting because there was also these women that also felt this boost that had a positive impact on their career.
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  And in fact, for those who felt more confident, they also increased their effort.
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  So and this is self-reflective information, but that's pretty interesting, too.
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  And then the last part, I call it anticipating the great return or not, because both are valid.
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  and it was interesting the point about an asset in the workplace that, you know, the men with
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  children were more likely to say it than women without children.
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  So I think it's important that
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  we have the conversation where we include everyone and talk about this very normal thing that's
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  likely to happen to 85% of women.
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  You know, it's a big one.
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  So I think those data points for me are
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  linchpins in allowing these stories to kind of form around them for the unique experiences that
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  everyone has.
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  Thanks for tuning in.
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  And if you want to dive deeper into this conversation,
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  check out the links in the description to watch the full episode.
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  See you in the next one.