Latest / MIDDLE GROUND - Real Conversations on Faith, Identity & Becoming — Through Brynne's LDS Lens of Curiosity, Love and Doubt / You Are Enough Right Now: Faith, Perfection & The Spark of Christ Within — Jennifer Roskelly
Transcript
- Brynne (01:08) Jennifer Roskelly, I'm so excited to have you here tonight. How are you doing? Good. Jennifer (01:12) Thanks for having me, Bran, excited to be here. Yeah, we're gonna... Brynne (01:15) I'm going to talk about Jennifer's faith journey. First of all, she and I became friends mostly through our kids, Ava wanted to play date. Yes. With my Ross. And so we met up at the park and we dove right into life. we're with me if you're feeling it. Jennifer (01:27) Yep, she sure did. Yep. We sure did. Yep, and right back at you. Yeah. Yep. I remember opening up really quickly. We met for a little kids play date. Yeah. And I'm definitely not surface level either. I very much just believe in like, ⁓ serving the light like of Christ and all of us and how to bring that further out. And, ⁓ how to befriend someone really. just love getting to know others and befriending them and doing what I can for them. then she, this amazing Bryn Erickson told me about this amazing podcast and so much more than that. But yeah, I said, I better be your first person, first supporter. I'm not your first supporter podcaster, but I am happily in line. So here I am. Brynne (02:20) It's gonna be a beautiful conversation. Jennifer has shared such beautiful insights and different perspective than I've heard from a lot of other people. She can quote scripture like nobody's business and in my mind she's like a modern-day Isaiah because she speaks these beautiful thoughts that I really have to sit with and think about and ⁓ I'm really excited for you to share your perspective and what has resonated with you. where you found truth and what guides you today. So you ready to dive into it? Yep, let's do it. Let's do it. Jennifer (02:57) You are seriously also just real quickly before we start you're so nice to say all those things. Brynne (03:02) Well, it's so true. Jennifer (03:03) Yeah, thank you. That actually really means a lot to me. So I think where you put like your work and where you put your determination and motivation to find out truth in life and ⁓ really, ⁓ which is my big thing that I focus on, which is the parables of Jesus and actually like what they mean. And I only take it to my heart if it applies to every single person, because that's what I truly believe. I believe if it excludes anyone, it is not of Christ but of man, ⁓ or something that is even lesser than that, is mingling with scriptures and how can we divide versus unify together in Christ with one hope, one peace, one mind, one heart. Brynne (03:48) Yeah, I've been that word has been servicing a lot for me lately that word exclude and exclusive. And yeah, that resonates a lot with me too. That's awesome. So before we dive in, let's talk a little bit about your upbringing just so we have kind of a foundation of Jennifer's life. What did that look like with spirituality or religion for you? Jennifer (03:58) Yeah, me too. ⁓ dominantly raised LDS, ⁓ had a great life. I, my, you know, we didn't always have the coolest, brightest thing, you know, when it first came out, like a lot of other kids, ⁓ around me had, but I always knew for sure I had the best family. Like I, from a very early age loved scripture. I loved, I felt always close like, ⁓ with heaven, guess you could say, yeah, that's probably a good word for it. Like I always felt close with heaven when I was little. I was like that little, just a young, innocent child, right? That like Jesus truly did love to serve and be around all the time. Like I truly felt like I had a really amazing, incredible childhood blessed with good parents. But we grew up middle-class and so I got accepted into a performing arts school. had to audition for that. We got accepted into that for dance and music. And then around high school time, we took a family trip out here to Utah. My mom fell in love with the mountains and the beauty of Utah. And my dad grew up here. And so actually, I'm pretty sure your grandpa taught my dad. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he told you to say hello. But yeah, that's funny. So But I, so we came out here around high school time. Finished out high school here in Utah. And that's where I met my husband, Tyler. So yes, born in cross country. Yep. Born in New York, upstate, like Corning bath area, about 45 minutes from Palmyra for all the LDS listeners for non LDS listeners. Palmyra is like the area where Joseph Smith, you know, prayed to know, you know, Brynne (05:44) and you were previously in New York. Jennifer (06:04) what church he should join and he had visions from God, which we believe that everyone can receive, not just LDS people. Brynne (06:11) Absolutely. Love that. Okay, so that was your upbringing. Did you ever have questions or doubts growing up or concerns? Jennifer (06:21) I definitely relied on my, I would say I probably just more write like word in word out, kind of relied on my parents' testimony because that's what I was taught around for a while. ⁓ Started to have my questions a little bit of like, who am I? What is my purpose on this earth? Why am I actually here? If Joseph Smith can talk to Christ face to face, why can't I? Why does Joseph Smith? ⁓ receive more love of God than I have, what is in his heart that's not in mine, just like some really in-depth questions that I feel everyone personally should ask because no man is greater than no woman and no woman is greater than any other person also and Christ wants to talk to all of us, man and women equally, that's his promise and so ⁓ we're all true sons and daughters in his kingdom and that's really cool when you start to understand what that means and how it changes the world and how it changes you. ⁓ And so anyways, ⁓ yeah, I certainly had my questions that mainly that was one of them. If Joseph Smith can see God, why can't I? Yeah. And so I started to pray real hard. ⁓ Started to have battles of self worth, self doubt. I know the answer to battles is faith. So I started to, every time I would have a challenge come to me that would feel like it would overtake me, I would sit on it for a good couple of days probably really think about what I was being mentally challenged with, what thoughts were trying to make my heart feel heavy. And then I would immediately take that to prayer and say, I want you to reverse this. I know that there's better answers waiting for me. And that is exactly where I started to receive visions, receive dreams, receive moments of the future to come. I am not afraid at all of anything to come. I'm actually very prepared for it. ⁓ because I feel like I've been, like I said, putting in the work to be calm. Brynne (08:18) I love how you said you asked for it. Like you wanted the answers. Which ironically is what Joseph Smith did. Simple. And I've learned a lot about rote prayer and just the sake of prayer to saying that you've done it. The earnest prayer of seeking. Jennifer (08:21) Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's crazy, right? it's so simple. That's important. And that is the reason. Yeah. It's important to know the difference between the route and the reason. know, like the route is that we read scriptures. The route is that we pray. The route is that we fast for faith to receive answers to our fasting and, you know, for whatever various reasons that we're fasting or right, whatever that is on a spiritual journey of what that looks like for each individual. ⁓ But the reason that we do something is enlightenment. And that's what comes when we follow the route, when we're true to our reason and our root reason of why we're trying to receive further light and knowledge. Brynne (09:23) think a part of that is not only enlightenment but maybe connection. Jennifer (09:26) Absolutely. yeah, absolutely. And in fact, not to bring up scriptures, but to bring up scriptures, because that's what I love doing. ⁓ Is that's why Peter says light and knowledge be multiplied. It's actually a literal fulfillment. And that is coming to every single person living and breathing that has never seen yet still believed. And what we have never seen is the power of the body changing and becoming translated. And then what we see as we believe that we, our own bodies, our own true LDS, you know, to talk in LDS terms and then to relate it to non-LDS terms. LDS terms is each body is a celestial room waiting to receive light and enlightenment and knowledge that is in connection with everyone. That we can literally endure the physical presence of Jesus who is obviously still here on this earth. I don't know if anyone doesn't know that, but Jesus is still here on this earth waiting to receive us. as his new spirit children. It's actually really, it's so simple and it's so marvelous. And yeah, I love talking about it, but yeah, that's it's, we are absolutely all connected to each other. And then when the body starts to become a translated being, which is also why it's actually what Joseph Smith could never hang up. ⁓ I don't know if you've, you know, if, if anyone that is listening or if you've ever read into it, but that's the one thing that Joseph Smith could never receive an answer of. It's really curious. He wanted to know when the time of his translated body, of the time of the millennium, the time of Jesus Christ coming to back in his fullness of glory, putting on his fullness of robes, he didn't receive an answer because it wasn't his to receive the answer to. The incredible thing is that it's ours. And the answer is very simple. It's when our bodies begin to change and become enlightened with light to give to our dead ancestry on the other side of the veil, the most incredible reunions that will ever be made. is when Jesus Christ parts this veil and our faith is equal to the faith of the veil being parted. And then we receive our ancestors, one world. There's no longer that side and this side. It's one world. It's unified in peace, in hope, in faith. The Garden of Eden again, truly. Like truly, truly, truly. And this is why Jesus, I love studying the words of Jesus because he said, everything in its beginning, condescends and then it reverts back to its beginning. He condescended. Exactly. That's true original form. right. Yeah. He condescended. He is now glorified. We are in our most condescended form and now God, the power of God, because of our faith through his only begotten son, Jesus, now we become glorified and now we become into his, we literally walk into his presence because this is the world that is waiting to become the next. incredible throne where everything sees all like it's beautiful. It's just the whole universal aspect of it. Stars moving. Stars move because the faith you move stars like every you know did God create stars for us or did God create us to be inheritors of the stars? It's it's we are a true connection to everything everything. It's amazing not to go so deep but to go so deep it's incredible. Brynne (12:50) Okay, so I'm sure everyone's catching on what I meant by Jennifer's like an Isaiah. It's beautiful, it's poetic, it's deep. And we dove right in. ⁓ I want to circle back to a lot of the things that you said. But before I do, ⁓ so you started with your pivotal question of wanting to seek out. Jennifer (13:14) ⁓ absolutely. 100%. Brynne (13:17) Yep. You were how old at the time? I... Jennifer (13:20) I was actually, I was about 15. Okay. Yeah, I was pretty young, but I was going through some pretty tough family things and it really did make me truly understand, is the faith that Joseph Smith must have been going through right now. Oh, this is some of the challenges that he must have faced. And I found myself in a very relatable situation to, right, my hero, my idol, right? and not to take on the LDS, but a little bit to, you ⁓ to maybe question how often we put the leaders on a pedestal when we should just truly look at them. And I mean this with all the respect that I can say, we truly should look at them as our brothers and brothers make mistakes, right? Sisters and brothers fight all the time, but they make mistakes and so do we. And they are no better than you. That's all I have to say. And when you realize... When you realize the faith of yourself, when you see yourself as you see them, as Christ sees you, then you see your beauty in Christ also. And it really does become, it's nothing malice, it's nothing in any sort of way negative, but it's actually a true unburdenship. It's a true actually entering into the fold of a love and a gospel of peace and a gospel of desire to attain true life. Right? Like all of us are kind of in this, what, you know, what is, right? Like what is life? What is the point of being here with this incredible body house of treasures that God has given us, right? Like there is only one Brynn Erikson in this whole universe. There's only one Brynn Erikson. How does Brynn Erikson bring the light in all of her to life? Like, you know, and that's, that's where true, the true brother sisterhood really is an equal for one another. Brynne (15:21) I love that. so did you just become consumed in wanting to know more and understand more or did that kind of mind upon mind like grow as you got older? Jennifer (15:39) Yeah, so it kind of started in my early years. I wrote a book. It's called Paragon. It's like a seven series book. I did. It's a seven series book. It's not published, but I'm actually like, I'm like, OK, I should publish it. I feel like it's time. Yeah. And it's actually just ⁓ all about, you know, man becoming more powerful beyond what they thought they could through exactly what we're talking about, you know, through faith, through question, through overcoming challenges. That's such a huge one. As we're entering into this, you know, mass shift of where Jesus truly does want to melt. I don't want to say melt, also just kind of... Well, yeah, right. It's more of like this. We're in a corrupt world and it's more of the corrupt world shedding its skin and becoming incorruptible. Like, and I have a lot of shedding to do, right? Like we all have a lot of, you know, what unhealthy habit can I shed and put away? and receive this new much greater habit. So it's a lot of that. Scriptures, girl, you just quoted it. That's exactly right though. Yeah, it truly is. It is a shedding of the natural man, putting on your perfect bodily image, which is exactly why it's so, everything we say, Brynne (16:44) natural man becoming a new creature. Jennifer (17:03) People are like, what does that mean? And I'm just like, no, it means exactly what it means. It's actually literal. Like it's very truly literal. Like everyone should just look at life so literally. Jesus is the son of God, very plain and simple. I am a daughter of God, very plain and simple. Jesus, you know, a lot of people say like they're translated, but people are like, I don't know what translated means, right? Or so they're like, okay, you know, they're glowing, right? Like Jesus is like a very, literally he is a, Jesus is a man that is surrounded in light, quite literally. Literally, he has a countenance that is glowing because he perfected through his flesh. And good thing, good glory, we don't have to do it according to the law, because that was his role, right? But now our role is to do that through faith. Like it's so, and we get to do, and we get to do that through faith. And that's exactly why he's still here on this world waiting for us. Like he is nowhere else. He's right here. He is our spiritual father. He is waiting to receive us as his new sons and daughters and give us a great big hug and saying, wow, your faith is the reason why we came down from the throne. Brynne (18:15) So it's not, ⁓ so we're not trying to Jesus and Heavenly Father. We're not trying to earn or return or yeah, all of those words. Jennifer (18:21) reached. We, I would say in like a one sentence, man, I love this. You're like really challenging my thoughts, like off the cuff, I love it. But I would say in one sentence, there is nothing we could do to earn, right? Like, I mean, and you can, you can, right? Like you can do your good works. You can do all those incredible things, right? But at the end of the day, the law. the law according to the first biblical cursing that God brought upon Adam and Eve, all the way down, He fulfilled. Now, now, because He fulfilled this, God loves Jesus so much, this is where grace comes in. Now, we, because of our faith, and then our works to prove thereafter, but because of our faith, then we get to, in some what, enjoy this beautiful transition because of our faith, and we are the Isaiah, there is an exodus, a Moses type exodus that leads directly to Jesus. And it's because the faithful put on their light, they put on their understanding, they ask the questions early, they challenge themselves, they go through really hard downward, right? It's a condescension of test, ascension of light and knowledge, condescension of ⁓ greater challenge because of your light and knowledge. reciprocated with the greater comeback of further light and knowledge, right? Until the day when this world melts away and the faithful truly have inherited Jesus in the flesh. Like Jesus is waiting for our faith to begin a work in us and change us to walk into his presence. ⁓ Because that was not a sentence at all. So in a sentence short, in a sentence short, I would say, It's not about earning, it's not about doing, though I do believe in doing those things, but it's more about are we humble? Is our faith open? Is our heart ready to receive ⁓ just how nothing we are without Him, without the works of Jesus? But then because of that, are we ready to receive literally something beyond our imagination? because that's the style that's coming. That's like the risk and reward that is coming when you put faith and trust in God because Jesus has done enough. Brynne (21:06) So what do believe for those that have not chosen the path of being led by faith and Christ? Jennifer (21:15) ⁓ Are we talking about people that would like turn their backs and curse God and commit sin as in like murder, cheating, stealing everything under that scope? Is that kind of what the question leads to? Brynne (21:27) or even just even the people that might say that being a good person is enough. ⁓ Jennifer (21:33) Okay, yeah, I definitely think ⁓ so Exodus 1, right? So Isaiah, right? We kind of see four main changes of humanity, I'll say, ⁓ that receive the Garden of Eden again, which is this world to come. ⁓ The first that Isaiah talks about is what we've just mainly talked about. A lot of the, ⁓ you know, my heart is going through it. ⁓ And then vice versa, the gifts of God will come to those people. You'll start receiving dreams. You'll start Asking more questions because of your dreams. God, I've never had a dream like this. What does it mean? Give me further light and knowledge and receive, and I have faith I can receive these things from you because I've already been receiving certain dreams. And those continue and then they get greater and greater and greater, right? And of course the challenges according to a law of opposition, which I do believe in is at play a little bit here as well. ⁓ as we fight, challenge with faith. we always increase. That's kind of like my mantra, right? Like when you're going through a challenge, Jennifer, you understand it, understand what bothers you in that challenge, and then pray for the ability to overcome that challenge. Like give me the insight, give me the example, give me the practices, the mind skills, the mindsets that I need to change. Brynne (22:53) Surely the people that are trying to live a faith, like faith guided, be a good person, contribute to the goodness of mankind. Yes. Not necessarily have to be a religious person. Jennifer (23:05) So many people inherit the kingdom of Zion before LDS people. cannot even tell you how many yeah, like uh-huh. Yeah, just it's a very much and and and ⁓ I've seen many for example, I'll bring up like a dream that I had. It was very say this the world was like very segregated at this point it was you either believe in yourself because of Christ Brynne (23:11) in the LDS phase. Jennifer (23:35) and Jesus and you're walking just fine, ⁓ you just have this aura about you and you're like literally protected quite literally by this like cascading veil of light, excuse me, this like veil of light. Or you really aren't and you really do fall under the precepts of men, you fall away, like it's, there will be one point where just truly the world is so, divided, ⁓ it's more so like they deny the potential of themselves. It truly is like ⁓ a... ⁓ How to put that comfortably, right? Because that's a tough thought and it's a scary thought, right? To deny our potential. But I guess it kind of just really is like that. Yeah, like what it entails. I mean, I guess quite literally the scripture is, know, those that deny me do not receive me. I mean, I guess that sounds tough, but also, you know, but also like, ⁓ you know, the parables of Christ, know, thou knew I was a harsh man, you know. Brynne (24:28) Like you don't want to. Jennifer (24:49) Like at some point we need to understand who we are and if we deny our part of Christ that is constantly trying to save us, constantly trying to agree us, constantly trying to anoint us with light. Well then yeah, that has a cost. Brynne (25:05) Do you think there will be, do you think that there will be a, for lack of better word, happy outcome for everyone? Jennifer (25:14) I believe in this like middle stage to come where like Zion begins to kind of like shed its skin, know, God gives everyone a chance, right? It's all kind of like the, know, mom and dad are gathering all their kids, you know, that kind of style of thinking, you know, good parents, right? Good parents protect their children, right? Like, so there is absolutely that. I believe there is a chance, but then, you know, also, John the beloved to bring up some further scripture, John the beloved is very clear. You know, I am your brother through trial and tribulation. I mean, there's definitely tough stages to come. So we're sons and daughters of the most high, but you know, to get there takes heart. It takes ⁓ a desire to learn who we are, where we are. I think where we are is a big one. A lot of people get lost of where we are. ⁓ you know, so that we can come back home and enter into the presence of Christ and be led directly and only by Him. Brynne (26:21) So where have you gone to find this information and make sense of it? Jennifer (26:29) ⁓ I started with scripture about, I was 20 years old. ⁓ I heavily dove into New Testament about 25 years old. I began reading, you know, outside sources, Pistis Sophia, you know, and then, you know, jumping back to the brethren's, you know, the doctrine of Christ, Christ the beloved, ⁓ the lost gospels. ⁓ you know, of Mary Magdalene, Lost Gospels of Thomas. I mean, and you know, the Egyptian scrolls are amazing. I actually, it's been quite awesome. Like reading through those, I found a lot of ⁓ comforts of, wow, they literally talked about the exact thing that I truly believe is coming. it's, so it's just a repetition, right? It's a repeating of history, because that's how we can know God is reliable. Will history repeat? And God is reliable. And right, the time. of newness does come again because the oldness is now done away with. That's why Jesus says, am guarding this world. I am the guard of the oven. Essentially, he is the guard before this world becomes a fire glass crystal, incredible, yurumum, thumbum, you know, the throne. He is the guard of this world before this world becomes a new throne in the heavens. so, ⁓ and everything happens in between then, but. ⁓ Yeah, I feel like the middle ground looks a lot of self-seeking. In short, to answer your question, ⁓ a lot of us will quickly, really, really fastly, like instantly turn to what the heck is going on with the world? Why? You know, what do I do for my family? What does this mean? And so many people will quickly turn to God and then God leads them to the light of themselves. And then the power of themselves becomes multiplied. And then, you know, And then mothers and fathers teach their children what has worked for them. And then, you know, a true process of, you know, 2000 stripling warriors, right? I don't, I don't need a sword. My faith is enough, right? Like those are the times that are coming after this quick turn, after, you know, some events will happen. 100%. Yeah. 100. I'm teaching my kid all the time. Like, Hey, where's your spark of Jesus? Oh, my soul is in my heart. My heart is the true covering for my soul. Okay. Yep. Good. Like, Brynne (28:41) Is it happening now? Jennifer (28:54) You know, where is your direct authority? ⁓ my, you know, my authority is my pineal gland, just like Abraham taught his sons and daughters. We need to listen to our own godly spark that is one with Jesus, right? So that's what begins to come alive in everyone. So it truly is understanding yourself, and then you can be understood with everyone else. so, yeah, like a child. Brynne (29:19) Yes, which is stated a lot. Jennifer (29:22) Stated so much stated so much like a child. It truly it's that simple like a child. My daughter teaches me all the time. One day she was drawing me a picture. She should it. She folded the paper in half. Half a heart was on the outside of the paper. But then when you opened it up, you know, thinking you would have the other half of the heart. Instead, she just drew a giant sunbeam like a literal sun, a yellow sun coming out of her heart. Immediately when she drew me that picture, she was like, Mommy, I just want to. Like show you this drawing, like this is what's inside our hearts, because this is what you're teaching me. In that moment, I was like, my gosh, I teach her things, and then she teaches me so much of a greater understanding just to have the visual alone. It really did set it in stone. And it's so simple. And once again, if it doesn't apply to everyone, I throw it out. Immediately I throw it out because Christ's love is for everyone. Everyone. And everyone has a living, breathing. beating heart on this side of the world right now. So everyone has a spark of Christ in them. That is a little sunbeam seed ready to grow and multiply. How amazing? Like it's truly that simple. Brynne (30:30) is amazing and so simple. You always take scripture so literally. Jennifer (30:35) No, actually it was, I had no idea what Isaiah said. No idea, I had no idea what, you know, the times of Kings said. I actually struggled with scripture ⁓ quite a lot until I started to actually have my own like faith evolution. I don't really like to call it a Yeah. I like that. Don't really like to call it a faith crisis, but a faith evolution. And it really has been that because ⁓ I can talk about things so comfortably now. ⁓ because I know they're true in my heart and I know Christ is true with me. Like I know. He's got exactly. Yeah, exactly. He likes me. Yeah, he sure does. And and he likes me so much that I know he knows I'm going to blast it out to everyone else because he gives me truth. And I really do believe that wholeheartedly. Like and it's again, it's because it is my one law. Like if it doesn't apply to everyone, I just I don't need to worry about it. Brynne (31:08) you. Jennifer (31:33) So, yeah, everyone truly is of equal worth and equal value in the kingdom to come. And everyone gets the same chance to get there, everyone. Very clear, very clear. And like I said, right, tribulation, desolation, we're in that now. People don't know we're in that now, but we're in that now, right? And again, it's holding onto faith as times get worse and as the body... Brynne (31:45) Yeah, it'll be more clear. Jennifer (32:02) of yourself becomes alive. And then also, right, opposition and challenge begins to change too. Hey, why did I go through this? I don't understand this. What's happening? Fast about it. Maybe fasting makes you feel better. Maybe praying makes you feel better because then you get, you know, a dream in the night like Joseph of old did, right? Joseph spiritual gift, Joseph of Egypt I'm talking, his gift was dreams, right? Like, so all of everything, everything is like all a car. God is like, okay, kids, what do you want? Give me a list, it is all a cart. Why? Because it can be that like Jesus paid every law, now every desire and heartfelt true, know, strife and striving to receive Jesus. It's all a cart. Like God is waiting to give us those incredible things. You just have to ask. And also believe, believe that you can literally, I mean, I tell, I love this like, And so many people, this is where I lose a lot of people, but that's okay. It's not an easy road, but I tell this all the time. I'm like, what if dying wasn't natural? Like what if dying wasn't natural? Because Adam lived a thousand years. Like that's a long time, right? That's a super long time. What if inheriting Jesus, because John says so, you know, spoiler alert, but like John the beloved is 2000 years old now. Like, does anyone ever actually think about that? Like his literal mortal body is 2000 years old and he's still walking, excuse me, he's still walking this earth. So at some point we need to understand, ⁓ that's probably why he said Jesus has one foot on the left and one foot on the right because he's waiting for people to truly understand their own treasures of the gift that we have, which is our body. It is a true gift from God. And when we understand the incredible treasures and rooms of light our own body has to come alive, it really is just all based on faith. you know, do you have the ability to believe that your body can be changed to endure breaking that veil with your faith and seeing Christ face to face and then learning from there, right? It's just, it's the seeds of hope. It's the seeds of question. It's the seeds of... ⁓ change. It's just, you know, our minds, we've been stuck in this like really awful mortal corruptible trap. And when Christ sets you free, right, it's the sky's the limit and ⁓ our bodies will begin to change. Many people will receive Jesus in the flesh that are living on this side of the veil right now. And it's because exactly as Isaiah said, heaven Brynne (34:39) Yeah. Jennifer (34:55) is now actually, and this is what's so cool, heaven is now actually needing to learn from the people of earth. And that's never been said before, that that's our time that they're looking forward to now. It is a reversal. It's a change. Yeah. Brynne (35:10) Interesting. Do you get to share these thoughts very often with people? ⁓ Jennifer (35:17) Perhaps some, I mean, these are some pretty deep conversations and deep thoughts we're circling, but I would say with some friends, like, just, we love it. Like we just love to, you know, binge Jesus and contemplate, right? Like, cause that's all you can do. yeah, and you know, and understand the millennium, right? Like so many people are like, what is the millennium? Right? And I'm like, I don't know. It's one day, but one day is a thousand years to Jesus, you know? So what does that even mean? Right. And that's what I mean about the whole mind shift of what can my body endure? Well, I'll tell you right now, like John's been a part of two millenniums so far, right? Because technically a millennium is a thousand years. So, you know, and he and I do believe he's still tearing just as Jesus is still tearing. Only Jesus is tearing a little bit in greater light than he is. Right. Because he did a lot more than John. But. ⁓ So, but essentially that's what we're waiting for. We're waiting for faith. We're waiting for bodily changes. We're waiting for countenance, know, whatever you want to call it, aura changes or, know, honey glows, you know, people about, you know, or, you know, think LDS referred to it a lot as, you know, a new spiritual creature, new garments, the true garments coming alive, you know, all of those amazing, the fire insurance cloaks, you know, like, our, but. At the end of the day, it's our bodies changing in order to endure the literal presence of Christ. Yep. That's what it is. It's really that simple. Brynne (36:54) Let's talk about the spark. ⁓ Jennifer (36:59) The spark. do. the spark and us all. Brynne (37:05) the lights, the spark, how it comes, what it does, and why this is so meaningful to you. Jennifer (37:13) Okay, so I believe each of us have a light of Christ in us. Abraham, when he was toiling, right? And this is what's really cool. I don't know why, and it's not because one is favorite over the other. Like I said, we're both equal, men and women are both equal, but God makes men work. He makes them toil and not to say women don't toil because we certainly work in toil, but we work in toil in different ways. And so ⁓ Abraham, for example, ⁓ had to go through, you know, a very, challenging test. ⁓ I mean, his only son, right, Isaac, ⁓ excuse me, not his only son, but his only son through Sarah, Isaac. ⁓ ⁓ Sorry, sorry Ishmael. His son through Sarah, Isaac, ⁓ really was regarded as a son he wanted to teach the stars about, right? And again, I don't know why, right? Because Abraham, that's what Abraham felt in his heart, right? ⁓ But needless to say, God was like, you're gonna sacrifice your youngest. it clearly was symbolic of God giving his... only begotten son, clearly. ⁓ And that's like really tough for me to compartmentalize. ⁓ I think it would be hard for anyone, right? So I'm gonna sacrifice my son because God wants me to, right? Like that's just in general, right? ⁓ But he did those things. Isaac was not young when that happened. Isaac was a very grown man. He understood fully and he helped his dad because Isaac had faith also. So that's like, you know. Again, very symbolic of Jesus. Jesus had faith, Jesus knew he must... Exactly, he very much understood. ⁓ And at the end, the story goes angels came down, saved him, he was fine. And so after spinning and toiling, know, wrestling, that's the word, wrestling with God, ⁓ literally he, the place where his son was saved, which is symbolic of his spark, a flesh of God in him, his son, which is also symbolic of Christ, right? The son of God. So when we talk about the son, we talk about Jesus, which is the fullness of all of our little lights, right, in him, or a little, little, little tiny spark with a seed of hope that can grow to be big, right? And that's, we are all sons and daughters of God. That's the kind of universal theory, right? this storyline is going with. Abraham, after going through that test and being faithful, wrestled and named the place Peniel. He said, it was where I saw and heard the spark and voice of God. Okay, wow. Christ said, I am one with the Father and I see and hear. in the mind and heart the voice of God and it leadeth me in my life and that is how I know how to walk. The father walks before the son. Bet me anything, and I am definitely going to ask this question to Christ myself, but bet me anything, he saw in dreams his whole entire life before it happened. That's how he knew to stop at the Samaritan Well. It's how he knew he saw himself. do these things that gave him faith to do these things when reality came and presented the moment to him. ⁓ I have had many dreams where I kid you not, it feels so real. I can only say when it happens in reality, and I use if really loosely because I do believe it's when, but when it happens in reality, I will feel so comfortable. I will only have to need the faith to act. That is it. So it's amazing that he says, I am the light in each of you that speaks. Wow. Okay. So basically, and he also says, you need to seek me in your heart first, and then tell me after you have found me in your heart, then you will hear me in your mind and my spark will become alive in you. Like these are very, very simple. And I think man just so overcomplicates it. We need to take it literal. Wow. So. I have a spark in my heart. Well, that's definitely true because that is provable by science. I mean, for the last 80 years, we've been able to see literal heart beating in a mother's womb, right? We all know that life comes from, you know, a seed and an egg when they fertilize, when they fertilize it, like the seed literally creates in its moment of inception with the egg, a literal biological spark of light. that can now be measurable by science. There is YouTube, this is proof everywhere. All you have to do is YouTube spark of life. And it will literally show you a sperm and an egg fertilizing together, becoming equally yoked and creating a spark. And that spark then envelops in on itself. And that's what actually creates the organ of a spiritual heart. How amazing is that, breeze? Brynne (42:35) Have you seen on, is there like. Jennifer (43:01) So it's almost like God is trying to tell us from the very beginning, I have known your very breath, right? This is really clear in Jeremiah one. I have known you before you entered your mother's womb. Wow. Like, I mean, wow. So just the origins, the corruptible-ness of us, but then the incorruptible nature, the incredible origin, the incredible invisibleness of us that is waiting to come to life, waiting to come to light, waiting. to live with Jesus is so simple and it's out there. So what's amazing, right? The first organ formed a heart. Second tissue organ formed the mind. It's the brain. The heart literally grows the brain. How amazing is that? You're essentially saying, Jesus is literally saying to every single person, I am the first. and am the last. Whether in your mother's womb or out on the earth, whether hidden or non-hidden, I am the light of all things, your spark and your mind. I am the one that you feel and you desire and you chase after in heart. And I am the one that you see and hear and come to know through intelligence of the mind that speaks. I am all. I am the all. And you and I are a part of Him, truly. Because we believe we can be such a large part of Him, here we go into the creation of gods that live in His presence happily, and that we love to worship Him, and we love to be like Him. The greatest question I've ever been asked, and actually this came only three days ago by my sister, was, you truly believe you can be like Jesus right now, 100 % with Out, doubt, yes. And everyone can. That is our potential. That is our desire for God to give us. It's really amazing. Brynne (45:10) become like Christ now. Jennifer (45:12) to become like Christ day by day right now. That is what he's waiting for. Very valuable. Because it's not about the law. And in fact, that's why Satan loves to trick us. He loves to trick us with the thoughts of, you will never, don't even think that you are worthy to become like him in this state. You, Brynn, Brynne (45:19) available. Jennifer (45:41) with your imperfect mothering and your imperfect spousing and all these terrible things that are just so the opposite of true. You are the most perfect mother. Like genuinely, if anyone is listening to this, Brynn Erickson literally is such an incredible mother. Every single time I have been with her, you're getting me Terry. See, told you I wasn't gonna do this, but you're making me do it. Every single time I have been with Brynn, all I have seen is, patiently give. Friend supporting, a reliable ear and an aid and a soundboard. Everything that Jesus calls perfect. I really mean that. Everything that Jesus calls perfect, Brin already is. Brynne (46:31) Yeah. That was way too kind of you. Nope. What is so sweet is like, I've done studies on the word. I like etymology. Yes. So I've studied perfection and the way that we describe it is without flaw. And I'm like, what would that even look like? Because flaw is so ⁓ subjective. Jennifer (46:53) So subject. Brynne (46:54) And so then in my studies I learned that actually some other ways that perfection has been translated is from the word complete or whole. I was like, I can do that and it'll be my way. With my flaws, with my imperfections. Jennifer (47:07) Exactly. As me. my gosh, I love that you are bringing this up because to bring up scripture. my gosh, I cannot wait to like actually go into this. I've been all over this actually. I am at in Job. Have you never ever seen or met? This is God talking. Okay, this is God talking. So we're really about to get so real into the definition of perfection. Have you never met? Brynne (47:23) Okay, where you at? Jennifer (47:42) a more perfect servant than my son Job. my gosh. So literally it's not Job's opinion of himself. It's God's, which is so much greater than Job. Like that's the beautiful thing. This is God's opinion of Job. No matter what Job does, no matter what Job hates, no matter what Job denies, this is God's opinion of Job. and he is looking forward to the time of when he himself is reborn again through Christ. And challenges come and he is like, you will never defeat me, Satan, right? And curses come. And then he is cursed with physical ailments. He is cursed with ⁓ bodily ailments. And still his faith completes him. I mean, like repeat that. Faith completes. Because God already called him perfect. So the only missing factor is his response to each challenge. And we only, that's what I mean. It's gonna be this like just the most incredible show as we change. We only need to respond with faith. That's it. And we're complete. We are called complete because of faith. It's amazing. So now fast forward. In our 2026 world, right? No one is perfect. No one's perfect, right? Because I make mistakes. I do things this and that that would be considered wrong in everyone else's eyes. And I actually pointed this to my own spouse, to Tyler. And I'm like, Tyler, did you know that I'm a daughter of God? And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're a daughter of God. And I'm like, I am the daughter of God that is perfect. Brynne (49:51) because Jennifer (49:51) is worthy, that is worthy to inherit this world and see Jesus in the flesh right now. My faith is worthy to break this veil. And he's like, so you think you're like Jesus, like you think you can break the veil? And I'm like, yeah. No, you're not. No, Tyler, yeah. Well, why do you think that? Because God's waiting for me to think that. Because God's waiting for my faith this entire time to ask that. There's no law no man can do. There is no law no man can serve. There is no law no man can be worthy of that Christ has not already done perfectly. Therefore, faith is enough. Asking is enough. And then receiving is believing to see again. That is the work. Yeah. It's really when you talk about spiritual journeys. It is the greatest work. Believing you are enough, believing you are complete because of faith. Yeah, it's amazing. It's gonna surprise so many people, a lot of women especially. Brynne (51:12) Yeah, I'm learning more about and it's hard to believe it is enough as you are. And I can when I really took the two great commandments to heart, well, the three loving God, others and yourself. Yes. I guess been my whole life trying to figure that out. Yeah. Still never do it. It justice in the way I really would have hoped and. Jennifer (51:19) It is so hard. In the way a fallen mortal man's mind would stamp successful. Good thing God does not work according to man's mind, truly. Brynne (51:49) You mentioned that God is a just God. Like, I forget what you said, when I asked you about will everyone receive a happy state. Jennifer (52:02) Yeah, the parable of Jesus being a harsh man. Brynne (52:05) But do believe God is more merciful and just, as the probably portrays? Jennifer (52:08) Absolutely. That's a... ⁓ absolutely. Yeah. Yep. For sure. Brynne (52:14) Yes, it will. Jennifer (52:16) Yep, absolutely. think that's why, to bring up some scripture to combat that, I think that's why all of the Israelites are really stunned when God declares that Sarah shall bear a son. And then their response to that is that, even Sarah called Abraham Lord, and that's a very genetic coding of way of ⁓ addressing Jewish lineage. ⁓ But the reason for that, And then, and very, very quickly is later seen through Moses, right? Because Moses, you know, through the down lineage through Abraham. ⁓ the veiling of Moses is about to be undone. And Moses was told, there is thine only begotten, right? And then there is one in the similitude of thine only begotten. And so it really is a process of understanding the just judgment, but then the faith because of judgment. And ⁓ it's also interesting that truly God says, I love judgment. Because when you think about it, when one judges wisely, one is really happy actually. When we do good things, we use good judgment. I think the word judgment is perceived in such a mortal lens of harshness, but judgment is actually, The laws of the lottery, right? If you get just right or you pick the right way, the right numbers, The judgment is that you just got a lot of money, right? And so, and that's what, and I try to like a little bit sometimes look at it in that way. That's what God wants to give us. When we choose the right path, which is believing in ourselves to be enough to receive the light of Christ within ourselves, the judgment and the reward of that is lots of here in the word of God directly. So that truly every man goes his own way and every woman is led by the word of God. Like it's really cool. ⁓ Yeah, but in general, 100%, I believe very, very, very many much greater days are gonna be sunny rather than a little bit of storms to go through, Brynne (54:35) Awesome. Two things before we close. Yes. ⁓ What does... First one, do you participate in religion or what does worship look like for you if anything? Jennifer (54:48) I love going to church. I love giving little spiritual nuggets that, you know, that come to me. Love helping others think. Others make me think a lot every single time I go. So yeah, I do love congregation. I love gathering. But I do love family Sundays. And I do believe it really is in the home where true church is found and Really, I do love the word church, but ⁓ I do like love the word, you know, Jesus a lot more. I just, a church, ⁓ I love going to many churches. I've been to many churches. I find great people in every church. I love congregating. ⁓ I love coming together, but I do love the light of Jesus in everyone so much more than I love going to church. just cannot even, I cannot even handle it. People are pretty great. They're so amazing. Like, church's people, right? Yes. I love that. Yeah, so I love going to the grocery store as much as I love going to church. I'll get to know a stranger and I'll just be like, gosh, you look amazing today. The light of Christ is really shining through you today. Have a good day, stranger. That's just my attitude. Brynne (55:50) Yes. So beautiful. Okay, if you can leave one thing with people, what is your most prized piece of truth that you wish every human knew? Jennifer (56:22) my gosh, that's such a beautiful question. Yeah, if I had like a mass megaphone to the world, yeah, I would say you are worthy. You are enough. Let the light inside yourself define yourself and who you are and no one else. Brynne (56:26) understood or believed. Everyone. Amen. All right. Well, now everyone knows. Everyone understands what it is to be friends with Jennifer. At least a small glimpse, but it's a treat. So thanks for being here tonight and sharing your beautiful light and what you've gleaned so far. Jennifer (56:58) ⁓ right back at you girl. Thanks so much. Can't wait to be here again if you want me twice. So love you girl. Thanks Brynn. Brynne (57:10) We might have to.