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COPS: ALEC BALDWIN ANNOUNCES REALITY SHOW AFTER "SHOOTING WOMAN DEAD" ON SET · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace a stunning and bizarre twist.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Hollywood star Alec Baldwin announcing a new reality show with
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: his family of nine, promising it will be full of love,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: laughter and family highjinks. This as his manslaughter trial looms
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: after he shoots a young mom dead on a movie set,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: say police, who won't have a reality show? Helena Hutchins,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: the young mom now dead, her only child, the little
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: boy so traumatized after learning his mom is dead, he
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: could not speak, He couldn't speak utter a word for days.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: you for being with us.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Hi.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: We have an announcement to me, not.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: This show.
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: We're inviting you to experience the ups and down, the.
• 1:13
  Speaker 5: Crazy we are.
• 1:19
  Speaker 6: I'm coming to TLC.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I'm very rarely without a I'm very rarely at a
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: loss for words. But just you know what, take a
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: listen to our cut twenty one.
• 1:35
  Speaker 7: And when I got through to the doctor and spoke
• 1:39
  Speaker 7: with him and he detailed exactly what had happened and
• 1:42
  Speaker 7: that she didn't survive, I mean I was I was heartbroken.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Guys, you are hearing Hutchins's husband. That's Matt Hutchins speaking
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: to our friends at NBC. When I got through to
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: the doctor and spoke with him, he detailed exactly what
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: had happened and that she did not survive. I was
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: heart broken. Okay, this is what I like to do.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Whenever I have a jewry I like to take them
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: back to the moment of the incident if I can,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: because we can talk about it till we're blue in
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: the face. But nothing can take the place of a
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: nine to one one call. Listen, let me.
• 2:22
  Speaker 8: Try emergency Bonanza Creek Grants. Two people accidentally shot on
• 2:29
  Speaker 8: a movie set by a prop done. We need help immediately,
• 2:33
  Speaker 8: Bonanza Creek Grants. Come on, stay almost phone with me.
• 2:35
  Speaker 8: We're going to get some help. Okay, Okay, what is
• 2:38
  Speaker 8: your name?
• 2:38
  Speaker 6: Don't hang up?
• 2:39
  Speaker 8: Okay, hold on just one second. It sounds like somebody
• 2:42
  Speaker 8: else is calling for better miss. It's good, everybody should be.
• 2:48
  Speaker 8: We need some help of director in our cameraman as
• 2:51
  Speaker 8: camera woman has been shot? Are they going to take
• 2:53
  Speaker 8: them to the roads? So was it loaded with a
• 2:55
  Speaker 8: real bullet or one? I don't I cannot tell you that.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, I'm sure that if it were a fake bullet,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: such as a blank This young mom would be bleeding
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  Speaker 1: out on the floor of a movie set after Alec
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Baldwin pulls a trigger. According to him, he didn't pull
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: the trigger. It went off on its own. I guess
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: whiless in his hand. But the disturbing part right now,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: in addition to this young mom's death while everybody's standing
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: around trying to figure out what to do and if
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: it was a real bullet, is that Alec Baldwin and
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: his wife and their seven children have now announced a
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: reality show full of love, laughter and family hijinks. Kella
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Brantley joining me, investigative reporter, Dailymail dot Com. Kella, how
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: many days did her only child go without being able
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: to speak after his mother's death.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Helena Hutchens son was clearly traumatized from the death
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: of his mother. And then you see there her husband
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: talking about the trauma that they also endured. And at
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: the same time you do see Alec Baldwin starting a
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  Speaker 3: reality show. It's tentatively called The Baldwins. It's set to
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: come out on TLC in twenty twenty five, so we'll
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: all be looking out for that one.
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  Speaker 1: Kilab Brantley joining us from dailymail dot Com. It was
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  Speaker 1: actually two days. Two days. The little boy could not
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  Speaker 1: speak after hearing the news his mother was dead. You know, Kila,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: hold on, I'm going to circle back to you. Let
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: me go straight out to doctor John delatorre joining us
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: psychologist mediator specializing and forensic psychology. Doctor Delatory, thank you
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  Speaker 1: for being with us. What is that psychological or psychiatric
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: phenomena when you literally cannot speak. I've heard of it,
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  Speaker 1: just like I've heard of where people get a horrible shot,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: their hair turns gray overnight, but you lose the ability
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  Speaker 1: to speak. And that's what happened to her little boy
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  Speaker 1: when he learns mommy is shot dead on a movie set.
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  Speaker 1: She goes to work that morning and bam, never comes home.
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  Speaker 1: What is it?
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  Speaker 9: It's called selective mutism, Nancy. And honestly, what the kid
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  Speaker 9: is experiencing is a trauma response. It's a pretty severe
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  Speaker 9: trauma response because of the severity with which he lost
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  Speaker 9: his mother.
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  Speaker 10: Right.
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  Speaker 9: Usually these things can be kind of proportional your response
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  Speaker 9: to whatever the trauma is, and sometimes it's just so
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  Speaker 9: overwhelming that you can't even process it. You dissociate from
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  Speaker 9: the fact that you're even existing in the real world.
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  Speaker 9: You regress back into whatever fantasy life or whatever sort
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  Speaker 9: of dream like state that you can be in in
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  Speaker 9: order to just kind of navigate the hurtful and very
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  Speaker 9: vulnerable feelings that you have, especially with the loss of
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  Speaker 9: your mother. And there's no way that he really understand
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  Speaker 9: did what exactly was that happened?
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  Speaker 11: He will when it.
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  Speaker 9: As he gets older. He just knows that she's gone
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  Speaker 9: and she's never coming back. And that's so overwhelming, even
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  Speaker 9: for anyone, especially a little kid.
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  Speaker 1: I've actually had crime victims that go into, as doctor
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  Speaker 1: John Delatory described, a dream state after trauma. Doctor Delatory,
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  Speaker 1: they go back to a time before the murder or
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: the rape or the molestation. But typically they go back
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  Speaker 1: in their mind and they live in a dream state
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  Speaker 1: where the murder never happened and they're still, for instance,
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  Speaker 1: with their family at night for supper and sitting around
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  Speaker 1: the TV watching a program together. They actually live in
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  Speaker 1: that world, not in the reality of their loved one
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  Speaker 1: having been murdered. What is that called, you said, selected mutism?
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  Speaker 1: When the little boy can spin for at least two days,
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  Speaker 1: what is that when you live in a dream stay
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  Speaker 1: you're functioning seemingly normally, but you think your whole family
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  Speaker 1: is still alive.
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  Speaker 9: Well, this is part of a dissociation, depersonalization, but ultimately
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  Speaker 9: what we're talking about is an avoidance. It's almost like,
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  Speaker 9: even if you were to walk up to the person
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  Speaker 9: and say, hey, you know, you know this thing happened
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  Speaker 9: to you, they will say that it didn't. No matter
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  Speaker 9: how many years it's long since been. They will never
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  Speaker 9: sort of incorporate that trauma into their being. They'll never
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  Speaker 9: incorporate it as a memory of any kind, just because
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  Speaker 9: the mind can only take so much. There's only so
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  Speaker 9: much that you can sort of process as a human being.
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  Speaker 9: And the more overwhelming something becomes, the more taxing it
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  Speaker 9: becomes on your coping resources, the more likely you are
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  Speaker 9: to engage in these kinds of extreme examples of trauma responses.
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  Speaker 1: I can only imagine it's worse on a child that
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  Speaker 1: already has no coping mechanism at all, doesn't understand what's happening.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, at that age, your mum, it's the single
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  Speaker 1: most important person in your world. You don't really even
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  Speaker 1: know of another world, and then to find out Mommy's
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  Speaker 1: dead just like that, Hey, Daryl Cohen is joining me
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  Speaker 1: now former felony prosecutor in inner city Atlanta, with me
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  Speaker 1: now high profile defense attorney at Cohen Cooper E Stephen Allen, Darryl,
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  Speaker 1: before you put on your boxing gloves and start arguing
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  Speaker 1: with me about this case, taking Alec Baldwin's side and
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: jumping on the bandwagon of his Realities show, I want
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: to have you cast your mind back to the days
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: when you were prosecuting. You know what I hated, Darryl,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: As you know, I hated having to put a victim
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  Speaker 1: on the stand and make them re live what happened
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  Speaker 1: to them, or in the case of a murder, putting
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  Speaker 1: a family member on the stand to relive. I hate
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: even doing it on this program. I feel horrible because
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: I know what it feels like being a crime victim
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: and having to testify, for instance. But it's the state's duty.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: The state has to do it. In other words, you,
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  Speaker 1: when you are a prosecutor at ME, you have to
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  Speaker 1: put that evidence up. And Daryl, have you ever had
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  Speaker 1: a victim. I'm thinking of one girl victim right now.
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  Speaker 1: She actually she's about fourteen. She actually put her head
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  Speaker 1: down on the witness stand in the middle. Well, really
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of the direct examination. And I mean
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  Speaker 1: she had been raped multiple times. It was horrible. But
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  Speaker 1: the point is you have to somehow get the victim
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  Speaker 1: to speak, and it's horrible. Have you ever experienced that
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  Speaker 1: as a prosecutor.
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  Speaker 10: I have, Nancy, And as much as I hated to
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  Speaker 10: put that victim on the stand, if my victim, such
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  Speaker 10: as the one you just mentioned, put her head on
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  Speaker 10: the witness stand, and that is the most telling, most
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  Speaker 10: compelling testimony ever in front of a jury. It may
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  Speaker 10: not be evidence, but it's really what happened, and a
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  Speaker 10: jury will hear and see that far more than there
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  Speaker 10: will listen to her testimony.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, we're talking about miss Hutchins,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Helena Hutchins little boy and for days, days after his
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  Speaker 1: mom was shot dead on the set of rust Alec
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  Speaker 1: Baldwin's movie, Helena Hutchins's son could not speak with that
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  Speaker 1: in mind. Listen, when we have an announcement to meet.
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: I'm having Yeah, this is a show.
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: We're inviting you to his home, experience the ups and
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  Speaker 4: downs and.
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: The crazy we are the from coming to TLC again.
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  Speaker 1: I see that, and I'm thinking of this seven year
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  Speaker 1: old little boy without his mother, not able to speak,
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  Speaker 1: and I'm actually speeciless. I mean, what are they planning
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen for the whole family as part of the
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: is it TLC? Reality series to go visit Daddy behind bars?
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Because that's where he's going. How's that going to be
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  Speaker 1: on TLC? That's full of hijinks and love and laughter.
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  Speaker 1: You're confusing I'm not confusing anything.
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  Speaker 10: You're completely confusing it.
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  Speaker 8: Now.
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  Speaker 10: Let me tell you, I am probably the only person
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  Speaker 10: on your show that has ever been shot and killed
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  Speaker 10: on a movie set. It was heat of the night.
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  Speaker 10: Carol Connor was there, and I know what the protocol is.
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  Speaker 10: Alec Baldwin is maybe criminally not guilty, but civilly libel
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  Speaker 10: because it was his production. Having said that.
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  Speaker 1: Is that what you call a Freudian slip? He's maybe no,
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  Speaker 1: criminally not guilty. You just said that that I just said,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin is maybe criminally not guilty. See you know what,
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  Speaker 1: You're a veteran defense attorney, but even you have a
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  Speaker 1: slip of the tongue. Wasn't a while and tell the truth,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: don't you?
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  Speaker 10: I always tell the truth. I don't always remember what
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  Speaker 10: I say Nancy, he is not criminally He is not
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  Speaker 10: kriminally guilty. You have to remember what you said if
• 12:43
  Speaker 10: you tell not the truth. The truth is based on
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  Speaker 10: the facts. The way a set is supposed to go.
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  Speaker 2: What is the art.
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  Speaker 10: It is the armorer, the person who provides the weapon
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  Speaker 10: to the actor. He had no responsibility to check that
• 13:00
  Speaker 10: weapon to see whether or not it was trot see
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  Speaker 10: whether or not was anything other than a prop gun.
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  Speaker 10: He did, whether he fired it or not, that is irrelevant.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, Johannas chum Wayno is with me, film and TV
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  Speaker 1: safety expert. He's the CEO of v ip Star Network. Okay,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: that sounds impressive. Vip Star Network, Johannas, thank you for
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: being with us, Johannas. Isn't it true, contrary to what
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen just spouted off? Isn't it true that on
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: a movie set you're never supposed to point a real gun.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: This was a real gun. It's not a prop gun.
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  Speaker 1: A real gun at a person and pull the trigger.
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  Speaker 6: I mean, and that's a real gun with a live
• 13:49
  Speaker 6: board is obviously going to have a detrimental effect to
• 13:53
  Speaker 6: anybody that that gun is pointed to. And so you know,
• 13:56
  Speaker 6: the common aspect of how you you know, film a
• 14:00
  Speaker 6: movie in an environment where you're using live ammunition and
• 14:03
  Speaker 6: a live handgun.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Well, he's saying, you didn't know there was live ammo. Johannis,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: who differentiates this scenario from what you're saying. Baldwin is
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: insisting a he didn't pull the trigger. Okay, that's bs right,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: because the FBI has already done tests on this particular
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: gun and they say there's no way to going off
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: on its own. But I'm talking about movie protocol. When
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: you're not dealing with a prop gun, you're dealing with
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: a real gun. You're not supposed to point it is
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: somebody and pull the trigger.
• 14:39
  Speaker 6: Ever, I mean, this dates back to several decades in
• 14:43
  Speaker 6: terms of how movies have been made, and really, as
• 14:46
  Speaker 6: we look at the changes that are being made Nancy
• 14:47
  Speaker 6: into the future, this is what we're looking at in
• 14:49
  Speaker 6: terms of what type of ammunition can you use? Really,
• 14:52
  Speaker 6: the dummy bull this is what's been the common terminology
• 14:56
  Speaker 6: being used in this situation with Russ. Clearly we know
• 14:59
  Speaker 6: that it wasn't a me a bullet, It was a
• 15:01
  Speaker 6: real bullet and a real gun that caused the death
• 15:05
  Speaker 6: of Alena Hutchinson, and so we'll still learn more as
• 15:08
  Speaker 6: as a trial continues, if he's going to be found guilty,
• 15:11
  Speaker 6: if he's not going to be found guilty. To your point,
• 15:13
  Speaker 6: I definitely different in my opinion in terms of mister
• 15:16
  Speaker 6: Cohen's opinion that he just mentioned.
• 15:19
  Speaker 8: We have two injuries from a movie gun shock. Okay,
• 15:24
  Speaker 8: we're getting out there already. Just stay on the phone
• 15:26
  Speaker 8: with me. Okay, that yelled at me at lunch because
• 15:31
  Speaker 8: ask him about the visions?
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Did you.
• 15:34
  Speaker 8: And yell at me. He's first abstructed guns. He's responsible
• 15:37
  Speaker 8: for MAMMI no, no, no, I'm a script supervivor. I
• 15:41
  Speaker 8: ran home. People were injured, true that I know of.
• 15:45
  Speaker 8: I was hearing. We were rehearsing and it went off,
• 15:47
  Speaker 8: and I ran out. We all ran out.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Bombshell.
• 15:50
  Speaker 10: Tonight.
• 15:50
  Speaker 12: Alec Baldwin parades new TLC reality show amidst a civil
• 15:54
  Speaker 12: suit for his cinematographer's depth, only months before his trial
• 15:58
  Speaker 12: on manslaughter charges. A prop gun and properly loaded with
• 16:02
  Speaker 12: live rounds, goes off on set during rehearsals for Alec
• 16:05
  Speaker 12: Baldwin's film Rust. Two crew members hit cinematographer Helena Hutchins
• 16:10
  Speaker 12: and director Joel Suza. Hutchins is critically injured and rushed
• 16:13
  Speaker 12: to the hospital. Despite life saving efforts, Hutchins succumbs to
• 16:17
  Speaker 12: her injuries and.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Now a TLC reality show has been announced where Alec Baldwin,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: his wife, and their seven children share all of the love, laughter,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: drama and family hijinks this as his manslaughter trial is looming.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: I wonder what Miss Hutchins family thinks about the reality show.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: You know, Johannes chum Way joining us from vip Star Network.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: I've asked you twice now and I've yet to get
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: a straight answer out of you. I don't guess you're
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: on the ball and payroll or part of the knee
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: reality series. I don't know that tremuno question, and I'd
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: like to get a yes no answer if possible. Isn't
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: it protocol SOP standard operating procedure that on a movie set,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: when working with a real gun, not a dummy gun
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: a prop gun, you are not to point the real
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: gun at a person and pull the trigger.
• 17:24
  Speaker 10: That is accurate.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know what took so long to get
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: that out of you. Listen, I'm a JD, not a DDS.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to pull teeth. But I can
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: certainly try joining me now Paul's zeit police commander out
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: of this jurisdiction. By the way, an author of stop
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: him from killing them. He is Screen Actors Guild and
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: he's experienced using firearms with the blanks during live action
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: movie scenes such as Terminator Paul's it's like, thank you
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: for being with us? Okay, follow up on what I
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: pulled out of Johanna's Chimoyno.
• 18:06
  Speaker 11: Absolutely not.
• 18:07
  Speaker 13: And as a matter of fact, you have a sanitary
• 18:09
  Speaker 13: environment to make sure live rounds are not introduced into
• 18:13
  Speaker 13: that environment, and that is the responsibility of any safety
• 18:18
  Speaker 13: officer on set.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: As far as aiming a weapon at someone, again, that's
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: not okay, especially this weapon, given the fact that it
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: has nothing in its barrel except allegedly a blank round,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: which we now know is a live round.
• 18:34
  Speaker 11: Bottom line is that firearm went off, it was aimed.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: At the person that it actually killed, and the person
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: that had it in their hands is mister Baldwin. So
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: statutorily this meets New Mexico state statue.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: You know, it's amazing of that Baldwin keep saying he
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: didn't pull the trigger and the gun quote went off
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: on its own while in his hand. But I want
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: to rage to everyone back to the time that Helene
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Hutchins was shot dead on the set of Rust. With
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: the nine on one call.
• 19:12
  Speaker 8: Listen, well part of the body was injured. I'm not sure.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not in there.
• 19:17
  Speaker 12: Fine, is there more than one wound?
• 19:20
  Speaker 8: I think there's one on an individual, one on two individuals. Okay, yeah,
• 19:26
  Speaker 8: Canthony maultlen, I'll see exactly want to do next? We say,
• 19:31
  Speaker 8: I'm going to tell you how to stop the bleeding.
• 19:33
  Speaker 8: Listen carefully, make sure we do it right.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: We do.
• 19:37
  Speaker 8: We do have a medic on medical ont They're already
• 19:40
  Speaker 8: doing that. Believe is the bleeding control. I'm allowed to
• 19:46
  Speaker 8: get it.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know about the medic on the set of Rust,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: but having been on multiple movie and TV sets, very
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: often there's somebody running around with a little plastic box
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: that has like band aids and back in it some aspirin.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know how that's going to help anything. But
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: I want to go back to Keila Brantley, investigative reporter,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Dailymail dot Com. Keilla, I'm looking back at the verbatim
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: transcript of these nine on one calls, and the dispatch
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: officer is wise enough to say, so is it loaded
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: with a real bullet? And even in the heat of
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: the moment of a life threatening emergency, everybody on the
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: other end goes, I don't know. I can't tell you that. Well,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: the woman is dying, bleeding out. That ain't from a
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: blake kila, But everybody's already in CYA cover your rear
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: end mode. I don't know if it was a live bullet.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Maybe she just fell. I can't believe the two faced
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: nature to dupluscity of this answer. I can't tell you
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: that she's bleeding out right in front of her.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: Well, I think what you're seeing here is that everyone
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: on set was shocked that it was a live around
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: in the gun. Because there's several protocols that you're supposed
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: to go to that you're supposed to go through. That
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: means that there should not be a live round in
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: that gun. Obviously that was the fault of the armorer
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: who has been sentenced. And then another step there is
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: Alec Baldwin, who, as you said, should not have been
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: pointing that gun towards anyone.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: I specifically want defense attorney, high profile defense attorney at that,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Darryl Cohen to hear what Alec Baldwin said. Listen, well,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: the trigger wasn't put I didn't pull the trigger. So
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: you never pulled the trigger?
• 21:32
  Speaker 11: No, no, no, no no.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I would never point a to pull a trigger at them.
• 21:35
  Speaker 8: Never.
• 21:36
  Speaker 10: Never.
• 21:36
  Speaker 9: That was the training that I had.
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: You don't point it gun as a man and pull.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: The trigger at that's from our friends over at ABC. Oh,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: I can't wait for the State to play that in
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: front of the jury. I would never. It's not protocol.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: That's not my training to pull the trigger. Agul In,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Well he did.
• 21:55
  Speaker 10: Darryl Nancy that I don't buy. I don't buy the
• 21:59
  Speaker 10: fact that he said he didn't pull the trigger. What
• 22:02
  Speaker 10: I am saying is is protocol. The armorer should have
• 22:06
  Speaker 10: made sure that weapon was not loaded with a live
• 22:11
  Speaker 10: round or rounds. That is what I am saying. I
• 22:14
  Speaker 10: think Alec Baldwin made a stupid mistake, both for the
• 22:17
  Speaker 10: reality show to come out now and also to say
• 22:21
  Speaker 10: he didn't pull the trigger. That is exactly what I'm saying.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, actually you just said two different things. So
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: first you said, I don't buy that. He said, yes,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: you did that. He said he didn't pull the trigger.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: So let me refresh your recollection. Listen, Well, the trigger
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger, so you never
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: pulled the trigger?
• 22:42
  Speaker 6: No, no, no, no.
• 22:43
  Speaker 12: I would never point a gun to anyone to pull
• 22:45
  Speaker 12: a trigger at them.
• 22:46
  Speaker 10: Never.
• 22:46
  Speaker 6: That was the training that I had.
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: You don't point it, good as man and pull trigger.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Okay from our friends at ABC, and thank you ABC.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: He just said it like three times in a row.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: He did say I didn't pull the trigger. I would
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: never point a gun and pull the trigger, but he did.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: So he's totally busted because, as you know, once you
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: lie about one thing, a jury can assume if they
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: wish that you're lying about everything. A lion part can
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: be viewed as a lie in a hole.
• 23:19
  Speaker 10: But that is not what the facts are. He was wrong.
• 23:22
  Speaker 10: I think that he did not tell the truth when
• 23:24
  Speaker 10: he said I didn't pull the trigger. I'm giving you that,
• 23:28
  Speaker 10: But what I'm saying to you is, Nancy, he has
• 23:30
  Speaker 10: no liability. In my view. He had followed protocol in
• 23:35
  Speaker 10: that the armorer is the one who makes sure that
• 23:39
  Speaker 10: the weapon is not loaded. Were there's some stupid moves?
• 23:43
  Speaker 10: Was there civil liability? You bet, but that's it.
• 23:46
  Speaker 14: Despite the tragic and untimely death of cinematographer Helena Hutchins,
• 23:51
  Speaker 14: actor and producer of movie Rust, Alec Baldwin seems to
• 23:55
  Speaker 14: be living his best Hollywood life. Just this week, Baldwin
• 23:59
  Speaker 14: proudly promotes a new reality TV show, The Baldwins, despite
• 24:03
  Speaker 14: being hit with yet another suit by Hudginson's family.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, there you go, but let's see the trailer. Listen
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: him and we have an announcement to me, not.
• 24:20
  Speaker 11: This is about her show.
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: We're inviting you to experience the ups and downs crazy ALC.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, So what exactly did Alec Baldwin say while under
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: police interrogation. I'm not talking about a friendly softball thrown
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: at him on ABC. I'm talking about what did he
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: say to police? Listen, she's right.
• 24:51
  Speaker 6: In front of me.
• 24:52
  Speaker 15: She's as farm for me as I am from between
• 24:56
  Speaker 15: the difference.
• 24:56
  Speaker 11: Between maybe you and the door. Okay for me.
• 25:00
  Speaker 15: She said it was a very tight shot, and the
• 25:01
  Speaker 15: shot was here not being a lead pulling the guns,
• 25:05
  Speaker 15: little lest lead turn cock.
• 25:07
  Speaker 11: Okay, and she's.
• 25:09
  Speaker 15: Right there, one of her in a position she wouldn't
• 25:12
  Speaker 15: ordinarily be if we were shooting and.
• 25:16
  Speaker 14: The gun.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, DARYLD Cohen, You've dealt with a lot of defendants,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: as have I, and I've looked at a lot of
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: their interrogations, read them, listened to them when they would
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: start explaining to me, maybe during plea negotiations, and they
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: always get right up to the critical moment, and then
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: suddenly they jump, they jumped to after the critical moment.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Let's just say you and I were robbing a bank
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: and I go, yeah, Cohen and I we went into
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: the bank and I said, man, don't pull a gun,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: and then you know, he pulled the gun and the
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: next thing we were running out of the bank. We'll
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: hold on. There's two dead taillers. How did that get
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: lost in the sauce? The critical moment? And I'm looking
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: at what Ball was says here, reading critically, and he says,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: and she's right there, vulnerable, in a position she would
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: ordinarily be in if we were shooting, and this thing boom,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: she hits the ground. Okay, isn't he leaving out the
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: part where he pulls the trigger and shoots her?
• 26:18
  Speaker 10: Kind of left that part out? Darryl Nancy too many times?
• 26:21
  Speaker 10: And Alec Baldwin is guilty of this when the truth
• 26:24
  Speaker 10: would set you free, or keep your damn big mouth shut,
• 26:28
  Speaker 10: as Judge Lan for you, as secretary, used to say,
• 26:31
  Speaker 10: kyd BMS, keep your damn mouth, big mouth shut. If
• 26:36
  Speaker 10: he had done that, he was far better off than
• 26:39
  Speaker 10: inventing a story that he thought at the time would
• 26:42
  Speaker 10: help him, when in fact it's coming back to bite him.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: It certainly is, because according to the FBI who tested
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: the weapon, there's no way the weapon went off on
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: its own. Back to dailymail dot Com investigative reporter Keilla Brantley,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: what can you tell me about what the FBI says
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: about the trigger pool.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: Well, during Hannah Gutira's case, you saw them bring in
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: the gun, analyze it and say that if it did
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: not go off, something would have to be completely wrong,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: that it would be a broken gun for it not
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: to need someone to pull the trigger to go off.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: So Alec Baldwin's defense that he did not physically pull
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: the trigger, according to experts, is impossible.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: This as the Baldwins announce a reality show on THLC
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: along with other major productions offered there. I'm trying to
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: figure out how Helena Hutchins family is going to react
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: to flipping through the channels and seeing all the quote love,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: laughter and family hijinks. But speaking of the armorer, Hannah
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Guitarra's I've got to very strong suspicion that Ali Baldwin
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: is going to make her the villain in his trial.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Listener as guilty of the volutary manslaughter.
• 28:15
  Speaker 11: As Tarsian count one.
• 28:19
  Speaker 8: Is now guilty and cut Tambers Tarsian count.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: It's going to be so easy since she has been
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: found guilty, to put all the blame on her. But
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: I'm understanding there's a very strong possibility that she will
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: be called to the stand.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Listen, float in it with five of the dumm your
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: own before lunch, and there was.
• 28:44
  Speaker 14: One that want to go in, and.
• 28:45
  Speaker 11: So when we got back from.
• 28:47
  Speaker 8: Lunch, I took the little cleaner guy, I cleaned it
• 28:50
  Speaker 8: out really quick, and I put another dummy in there.
• 28:53
  Speaker 11: Okay, five total events?
• 28:55
  Speaker 10: Can you about Greg?
• 28:57
  Speaker 11: There was something excise.
• 28:59
  Speaker 15: Yeah.
• 29:00
  Speaker 12: Baldwin's attorneys have planned their defense around Hannah gutier As
• 29:04
  Speaker 12: read not testifying against Alec Baldwin at trial. If the
• 29:07
  Speaker 12: defense can prevent Hannah gutier A's read from testifying, Baldwin's
• 29:11
  Speaker 12: team can use her own words and conviction to lay
• 29:13
  Speaker 12: the blame for the shooting squarely on her shoulders. Baldwin's
• 29:16
  Speaker 12: team also claims that anything Gutier as Reid would offer
• 29:20
  Speaker 12: is already available in her previous statements. In giving her
• 29:23
  Speaker 12: immunity from prosecution and the freedom to claim whatever she
• 29:26
  Speaker 12: wants could be highly prejudicial to their case.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Guys, will the armorer who is supposed to be in
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: charge of all weapons on the set, who has been
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: found guilty of involuntary manslaughter? Will she be the escapegoat
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: and Alec Baldwin's trial? Apparently, Baldwin's lawyers are fighting tooth
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: and nail to keep her out of that courtroom, for
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: the jury to never see her, never hear her. But
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: can they do that? Listen?
• 29:58
  Speaker 7: Hannah Gutier is Reid, found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in
• 30:01
  Speaker 7: the Rust shooting, pleads the fifth during a pre trial
• 30:04
  Speaker 7: hearing for Alec Baldwin. Goodier has read intends to avoid
• 30:07
  Speaker 7: incriminating herself while appealing her conviction. Prosecutors have now asked
• 30:10
  Speaker 7: the judge to grant Gutier has read use immunity so
• 30:14
  Speaker 7: that she may testify a Baldwin's trial without her statements
• 30:16
  Speaker 7: evicting her legal standing. In a phone call from prison,
• 30:19
  Speaker 7: Gutier has read says she wants to see Alec Baldwin
• 30:22
  Speaker 7: in jail. The judge will decide if she will testify
• 30:25
  Speaker 7: against the Emmy Award winner at a trial. This summer.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace two daral co In, a
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: high profile lawyer former prosecutor. Let's break it down in
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: simple terms. Immunity use immunity sometimes called single use immunity.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: She has, even though she's been convicted, the right to
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: at least assert the Fifth Amendment to remain silent, even
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: though she's already been convicted at trial. Why because she's
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: got an appeal go and she's appealing that conviction, all right,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: so she still has the Fifth to protect her. She
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: cannot be forced to take the stand. However, if the
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: state gives her immunity or use immunity immunity for the
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: purposes of this testimony, she can get out there and
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: incriminate herself, but it can never be used against her.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: So if the state grants her use immunity, she has
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: no recourse to take the Fifth Amendment because what she's
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: going to say cannot be held against her. She's set
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: the creek without a paddle, and so is Baldwin. Before
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: I go and throw that to Dearyll Cohen, Paul Zike,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: if she testifies at Baldwin's trial, what do you expect
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: her to say?
• 31:58
  Speaker 11: I expect her.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: To put the blame and or the primary obligation of
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: the security of that movie set to ensure that there's
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: no live I am on that movie set.
• 32:09
  Speaker 11: He's the one that hired her. He has a large
• 32:12
  Speaker 11: role that he plays in this movie.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: And you know, she's going to make sure that the
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Jerry knows that, and she's gonna shift some of this
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: over there on him.
• 32:22
  Speaker 11: And that makes sense. And you know, when you look
• 32:24
  Speaker 11: at this reality.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: TV show, I think that's a direct response to kind
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: of humanizing him a little bit. Right, So before this
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: goes to trial, you see him with his kids and
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: everything's great. Hey, wait, maybe he isn't the villain so
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: to speak, that people have made him out to be.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: And I think that's intentional.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: You know, Killen Brantley dailymil dot Com. That's a really
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: good point Zeke just made. Many people are speculating, Wow,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Alet Balwin needs the money, he's had to sell his place.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: I guess it was in Martha's Vineyard now a reality show.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: But maybe Zeke is right that this is a very
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: well orchestrated attempt to humanize him and make him not
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: the bad guy in the eyes of the jury.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: Well, from a pr standpoint, Nancy, this does have the
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: potential to be a really good play. For the last
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: two plus years, Alec Baldwin has been associated with this tragedy.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: You look at headlines and it's Alec Baldwin indicted, it's
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: Alec Baldwin potential killer. It's everything bad to do with
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: this case. So now it's a sort of rebrand that
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: makes him look like a doting dad, like a family man,
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: and hopefully in this case you'll be able to see
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: the behind the scenes and maybe humanize him a little
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: bit more where you see potentially his struggle with this case,
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: how hard it's been for him personally and emotionally dealing
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: with all this.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Is that what you expect? What do you what create us?
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: If any do you give? Rumors? Kill a brandtley that
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: he really needs the money?
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: Oh well, that's definitely a money grab here. Obviously he
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: has mounting legal fees. He has seven mouths to feed
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: on top of that, so there's no doubt. We don't
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: know exactly how much he's being paid for this, but
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: he will be making a good payday off of it.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Which one is it money or pr or both? Listen?
• 34:08
  Speaker 7: Just in time for his manslaughter trial, Alec Baldwin announces
• 34:11
  Speaker 7: a new family reality show that will air on TLC.
• 34:14
  Speaker 7: The video teaser offers a glimpse into the Baldwin family,
• 34:17
  Speaker 7: with seven young children and a marriage with a twenty
• 34:19
  Speaker 7: five year age gap between the couple. Attorney Gloria Alrid,
• 34:23
  Speaker 7: who represents Helena Hutchins's parents and sister in a civil
• 34:26
  Speaker 7: suit against Baldwin, claims the show is a calculated public
• 34:29
  Speaker 7: relations move to influence the jury pool in New Mexico,
• 34:32
  Speaker 7: making Baldwin out to be a compassionate family.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: Man who handed you your weapon in the day candidate
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: okay and physically handed.
• 34:43
  Speaker 15: She would show me the gun, okay, or she said colgun.
• 34:48
  Speaker 15: She said, test it for some language to she handed
• 34:51
  Speaker 15: it was sign did she said, do you want to check?
• 34:54
  Speaker 15: I know someone went soldier?
• 34:55
  Speaker 8: I said broad.
• 34:58
  Speaker 10: So and the first AI.
• 35:00
  Speaker 15: Very often we'll ask periodically he'll say let me check
• 35:05
  Speaker 15: and they'll have two people check.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know too, Johannes chim wayno joining us from
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: vip Star Network Film and say TV Safety expert. Is
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: he trying to cast blame elsewhere? Is that what he's doing?
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: And that interrogation snippet.
• 35:21
  Speaker 6: One hundred percent, Nancy, this is a clear case where
• 35:24
  Speaker 6: he's trying to put blame on on the armor. I mean,
• 35:27
  Speaker 6: I go back to the expert witnesses and the expert
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: teams that we have on our health and safety services, Nancy.
• 35:34
  Speaker 6: When surgeons are operating on patients, they work directly with
• 35:37
  Speaker 6: technicians to hand them over instruments. Where does the liability
• 35:41
  Speaker 6: lie with the surgeon operating on a patient. With the surgeon,
• 35:45
  Speaker 6: it doesn't matter who hands him what. If he leaves
• 35:48
  Speaker 6: product in the patient, who's the blame the surgeon. If
• 35:51
  Speaker 6: he operates on the patient and makes mistakes during the surgery,
• 35:54
  Speaker 6: who's the blame the surgeon? It's not the person that
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: handed him the instruments. And so we're going back and
• 35:59
  Speaker 6: forth between hearing mister Cohen comment that is the armor's
• 36:03
  Speaker 6: fault that handed him a live ammunition loaded firearm versus
• 36:09
  Speaker 6: the blame sitting there with Alec Baldwin. That should have
• 36:11
  Speaker 6: been part of the pre planning, the production, the training,
• 36:15
  Speaker 6: everything related to how you handle firearms. So I heavily
• 36:19
  Speaker 6: disregard or dis approve of the opinion by mister Cohen
• 36:24
  Speaker 6: in terms of whose liability it falls on.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Well, another issue to me is just the simple truth.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's all Alec Baldwin's fault, and I
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: don't think it's all the armor or Hannigatera's fault. I
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: think it's both of their faults. Okay, she handed him
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: a gun with a live round in it, and he
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: pointed the gun at a human, a real gun, not
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: a prop gun, and pulled the trigger and then lied
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: about it and said he didn't pull the trigger. So
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: everything he says now is down the crapper because he's
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: already been caught in one lie. Then you've got the
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: other added culpability that he is the execut to produce
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: her and in charge of everything on this program. Hey,
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: let me circle back to Daryl Cohen again, because we
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: got off the track on the immunity issue. If the
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: armorer Hannigate is is given immunity to testify against Baldwin
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: for the state. She cannot take the fifth. She's got
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: to testify.
• 37:22
  Speaker 10: That's very true. And there's, as you knew, two types
• 37:25
  Speaker 10: of immunity. There's use immunity, which they're offering her, and
• 37:29
  Speaker 10: there's transaction immunity. Transactional immunity is far greater, far better
• 37:35
  Speaker 10: for the person who's about to testify. But she cannot
• 37:38
  Speaker 10: take the fifth. On the other hand, what is she
• 37:41
  Speaker 10: to do about her trial and about the appeal? She
• 37:45
  Speaker 10: is between them, the proverbial rock and hard place. What
• 37:49
  Speaker 10: does she do better to lay low?
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: I want you to hear this. Take a listen.
• 37:54
  Speaker 7: Ever since the shooting death of Helena Hutchings on the
• 37:57
  Speaker 7: set of rust Alec, Baldwin has claimed he did not
• 38:00
  Speaker 7: pulled the trigger, even after an FBI report contradicting Baldwin's
• 38:03
  Speaker 7: account of the shooting, saying the trigger had to have
• 38:05
  Speaker 7: been pulled for the gun to fire. Baldwin says he
• 38:08
  Speaker 7: didn't pull the trigger. The FBI report says their testing
• 38:11
  Speaker 7: proves the gun could not be made to fire without
• 38:14
  Speaker 7: the pull of the trigger. Accidental discharge testing determined that
• 38:17
  Speaker 7: the firearm used in the shooting a forty five cult
• 38:20
  Speaker 7: single action revolver could not have fired without the trigger
• 38:23
  Speaker 7: being pulled. The FBI report also says with the hammer
• 38:27
  Speaker 7: in the quarter half cock and fully cocked positions, the
• 38:30
  Speaker 7: gun could not be made to fire without a pull
• 38:33
  Speaker 7: of the trigger. Ali Baldwin says he didn't pull the trigger.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be hard to fight with the FBI ballistics testing.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Back to Calli brandtleydallymail dot com. Now we hear Baldwin
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: stating in his police interrogation that Katias handed him the gun.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Was she the one that handed him the gun or
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: did an assistant hand him the gun?
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: We have conflicting stories here. We have Alec Baldwin saying
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: that Hannagutierra is handed in the gun. We have police
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: reports saying that it was an assistant director who handed
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: in the gun. But at the end of the day,
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: what we have is a cinematographer who's dead, a son
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: without his mother, and we have two people who are
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: facing the music.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: We wait as justice and foles. Thank you to our
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: guests for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off, good
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: night friend,