Latest / PCMA Convene Podcast / Convene Series: How Radical Joy Shaped the WorldPride Human Rights Conference
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- Convene Podcast Transcript How Radical Joy Shaped the WorldPride Human Rights Conference *Note: the transcript is AI generated, excuse typos and inaccuracies Magdalina Atanassova: Welcome to this Season eight episode of the Convene Podcast, brought to you by Visit Anaheim. What does it look like to design an event that centers radical joy, community, and inclusivity — while still tackling some of the world’s most pressing human rights issues? In this Season 8 episode, I’m joined by Valerie and Roberta Sumner, principals of VRS Meetings & Events, and Natalie Thompson, Vice President of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion for the Capital Pride Alliance. Together, they’ll share the behind-the-scenes of planning the WorldPride Human Rights Conference — from building safe and affirming spaces, to curating meaningful programming, to ensuring that celebration and advocacy went hand in hand. It’s a conversation about intentional design, allyship in action, and the power of events to create lasting impact. We start now. Welcome, ladies, to the Convene Podcast. It's a great pleasure to have you all join. With Pride increasingly being politicized, what does it look like to host a global event like World Pride Human Rights Conference that is both celebratory and uncompromising in its mission? And I would love to hear from Natalie first. Natalie Thompson: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be a part of this conversation. Today, we talk about things being politicized, and we talk about what's happening in the world as it relates to, like, the human rights atrocities for LGBTQ folks. Everything we do is political, right? Everything that we do from the money that we spend, the clothes that we wear, like, everything. And so for us, it was really important to make sure that we didn't shy away from the hard conversations. But we also took the time to really recognize that with resistance, we must also bring in our radical joy as a way to continue to participate in the fight, you know, having to create that balance. And so it was important to us to talk about politics. It was important to us to talk about healthcare needs. It was important to us to talk about all of these topics that are of real importance to people globally. It was important for us to talk about the connections and how, why this is a global issue, why when we talk about human rights and just because we're having a conversation, maybe about what's happening in Uganda or what may be happening in South Africa, what may be happening in, you know, Kentucky, we are all impacted by that. And so our goal was really to make sure that people were able to see themselves, even if the conversation wasn't directly tied to maybe their experience, but they could get really connected to the topic at hand. And then within that, we thought it was really important to nurture and feed the soul. Because if we are going to be out here fighting the good fight, we also have to make sure that we're taking care of our health and wellness. And so we made sure that we had those services available. We needed to make sure that we had mental health supports there. And so we had counselors available. And we also needed to make sure that we recognize that we are amazing, beautiful, complicated, and just spectacular people. So really also creating space to uplift the beauty that is within our community. And I think that really created a really magical moment for this human rights conference as a way to educate, advocate, and activate, which was our theme. How to throw that in there. Magdalina Atanassova: I love that, Valerie. Valerie Sumner: I would say Natalie summed it up perfectly for our role. And the role that we played really, was to talk with the committee, work with Natalie, to kind of bring these tenants to life and create spaces and create the environment so that these then could be realized, all of the topics that Natalie touched on. So for us, that was really exciting because we were able to think about Community Hub design, and we were thinking about how to bring and welcome folks into the environment, how they were going to be working in their workshop rooms. Where would the spaces be for their quiet spaces? There was a neurodivergent room for those folks who we wanted to make that a special spot so that everything had its own little thoughtful design that went with it. As we were designing the general sessions that took place in the National Theater, Roberta can speak to that. We created a campus environment to make sure we were warm, welcoming, and letting these conversations take place in a space that was comfortable and safe for everyone. Magdalina Atanassova: Sounds wonderful. So, Roberta, how did you feed the soul? I would just use this. This phrase from Natalie, which I love. Roberta Sumner: Well, I think in all of the graphics and the things that we put together for the production elements kind of played against what these themes were that we tried to incorporate and make everything seamless across the general sessions, the breakout rooms, and create the environments that were welcoming through lighting, design, graphics. We had a huge LED wall at the Plenary, kind of looking at that to showcase sponsors, speakers, highlight all of that stuff, all of that good stuff. Valerie Sumner: So I think the one space that was really exciting that we designed was this community Hub environment that was really our gathering spot for everyone throughout the conference, throughout the three days. It was a place to network, to just have a conversation, to gather, to meet speakers. We had organizations there participating with us. If you had a question or you wanted to talk with someone, you could go and connect with that organization. But it really seemed to work nicely. It was a flow, and it was always busy. There always seemed to be People meeting, convening, or just having a little time to be quiet. So that was nice. It was nice to see that work the way we thought it was going to work and it came together. So that was great. Magdalina Atanassova: I love the fact that you're addressing that it worked like you hoped it would work. So how did you communicate that to participants? Natalie Thompson: So we did a lot of communication through email and then we had our Sched app. And so we wanted to use like a one stop shop kind of, you know, process where through the SCAD app they had access to the calendar of events and they knew what was happening every day, all day. And so we put a lot of information there. And throughout the conference we were communicating with them through the app app of don't forget to check this out and go here and we have this available. And so that really allowed for folks to really not just get connected to like what was happening sort of session and workshop wise, but it really got them to understand that, oh, I could register every single day because it tells me in the SCAD app that, you know, just because I'm not going to be able to be there on the first day, I'll still be able to register. It also allowed for folks to know that we had a community space and that we had a counseling room. And, you know, like with any conference that's over multiple days, like the first day folks were a little bit shy and they were like, do I go here? I don't know. And then by the second and third day, folks were just clamoring to use these spaces. And like, as we were going through the space and we were seeing like our material sort of like dwindle down from our sensory room or we were running into the counselors and they were like, oh, this was a busy day. But it was like, really empowering. And so communication was key. And sometimes you think back to an event and like, oh, we could have done this, we could have done that. But I think that having one place for folks to go was really impactful. And having one space where we could get connected to not only just the attendees, but also to all of our speakers was also really great. So everyone knew that they had the, I don't know, it was like almost one of those things, like you were invited, like really making sure that they knew that they were invited to all of these spaces and nothing was off limits. Roberta Sumner: We also did a lot of branding and a lot of signage throughout the jw, which I think really helped people navigate where these spaces were that they could go to and centrally locating on one level, the sensory room, the counseling room, the wellness room. So it was easy for folks to find. And if they were looking for counseling, maybe they walked by the wellness room and were like, oh, wow, this is really cool too. I'll stop in there. So I think the way we designed how these spaces work together also made the journey for the attendee that much easier when they arrived. Valerie Sumner: I think the glue that held it all together was our volunteer program as well. It was really critical. One of the co chairs of the committee, Thomas, really put that together, and it really worked so well to have so many volunteers there that were just, you know, the grassroots of welcome to the conference and how can I help you? And can I get you connected and always there to be a resource for someone who might need a direction or just need an extra helping hand or whatever that might be. And I know volunteers, different conferences have different ways to work with volunteers, but this, I think, was a really good piece for that glue to make all this come together. Magdalina Atanassova: And I wonder, what was your approach when it came to working with partners? You know, the hotels, venues, vendors, how did you align them to the goals that you had for the event? Because all that does not happen without them. Roberta Sumner: I think communication. I went on multiple visits, site visits with both venues, multiple times, explaining who this group was, why we were here, the importance of this event, and then just reinforcing what it is we were trying to accomplish, you know, making sure everyone in the hotel, like, was aware that we were coming and that this was our purpose. So I did a lot of communication and a lot of visits with all of our partners, our venue partners. I worked a lot with our production team, explained, you know, this is how. Natalie Thompson: How. Roberta Sumner: Why this is important. This is why the texts need to be this. And I think that really sent the message that everybody was on the same page and we were all here for one goal. Valerie Sumner: The security team was really important with this one, too. And Roberta spent a lot of time. They were just phenomenal, very welcoming. They were almost ambassadors. They became part of the team, part of the crew. So you didn't. I mean, you knew they were present, but it wasn't like it was. They were present, but they were very, very approachable. So it was nice to have them that feeling. And everyone felt comfortable, I think, and confident that things were okay. Roberta Sumner: Well, I think we had comments from folks that were like, I felt safe, but I didn't feel like it was in my face, kind of security. So a lot of people told us that. Valerie Sumner: And that took A lot of meetings and conversation and understanding. So that was great. Natalie Thompson: And I think that was one of the key pillars of what we heard a lot from community of how are we going to be safe in these events. And so, you know, when we talk about creating events for community, really listening to community needs and finding out like, what is possible there. And it's really nice to work with folks who are all on the same page, you know, same mission, vision and values of security is necessary. But sometimes security feels more domineering and it feels really aggressive and uncomfortable. So really finding that sweet spot of, you know, security needs to be present. We need there to be sort of a visual presence, but we also need there to feel like an affirming presence. And so getting that middle ground wise, I don't necessarily think an easy feat all the time of making that happen. And so I just want to give like a big shout out to like Valor and Roberta, the BRS team. And then we have our security team on our security number on our team that really worked well together. And it doesn't always happen. So, like, it doesn't sound exciting, but it's actually very exciting. Magdalina Atanassova: I actually would say event planners would be very excited about this part because we need to do it. Natalie Thompson: We're all very aware. Magdalina Atanassova: And I understand when you say, you know, when security feels a bit too much and it actually makes you feel uneasy. So I'm so glad to hear that this was not the case. And I'm sure we can spend and actually create a whole episode on the logistics behind that. Valerie Sumner: With conferences like this and looking at these communities, to Natalie's point, it's really important to understand and know your audience, know your participants, understand where their concerns are, understand where their confidences are. That's really key. And that starts at the beginning. And that was wonderful working with Natalie and the entire Capital Pride alliance team. They so, so knew and understood what, what that audience is, expect expectations are and what, what the concerns are. And that was key, that was critical. That helps us build all these things into the design. So really important. Magdalina Atanassova: And speaking of design decisions, do you have anything specific that comes to mind that actually help the attendees to feel not only safe, but also represented and supported throughout the event? You know, maybe some, like I said, other event planners can takeaway. Natalie Thompson: Yeah. So for the, for the team, we just did an expression of interest form. So we had this idea of we want to do a call to action. And so we want folks to leave the conference with an idea of how they wanted to show up in this Human rights space. But we decided that it was really important to not over manage what that looked like. We picked sort of like key pillars of what are some of, like the topic areas that we want to make sure that we do have represented in this space. And so we really looked at religion being a hot topic. We looked at politics and policy and advocacy being a hot topic. We looked at leadership and, you know, another, like healthcare, mental health, like some of these more overarching global topics. And then we realized that we want to create space for even things that we may not even really be thinking about. And so we had conversations with people about a group in Africa that is a. There's an ally motorcycle group who is providing support to folks. And it was like we were able to bring in this conversation to talk about what does allyship look like in a way that many of us may not recognize. And so it was important that community dictated what was being presented and that it was our job to really look at how can we fit this all in? You know, we can't necessarily fit everything in, but how do we really take from all of these different leaders and these advocates in these different spaces and just create the space? That was our job, was creating the space, and they got to create the content. And our job was to help them facilitate that. And that was the most important bit for us, is that community dictated a lot of what happened in that space, but in a way that was not sort of haphazard, but more aligned. So I don't know if that a hundred percent makes sense, but it was sort of like finding that balance again. Like, this was about a balance in every aspect. And that balance of what are our high sort of, this is what we definitely want to have to. This is something that is completely, maybe unknown to the community, that this is happening in the world. And it would be really great if other people understood that, you know, somebody had an idea and they were like, let me see what happens with it. Because that led us to like that call to action. And that led us to, you know, there are people who may not have a global influence, but they definitely have a regional or local influence. And it's making a difference in their community. How do we elevate that? And so that was our goal. Valerie Sumner: It was fascinating. In the process of going through and working on hundreds, hundreds of ideas and proposals and sessions, Natalie and her team went through tremendous hours of painstakingly making sure that these things were connected. The dots are all kind of put together in a seamless way and trying to fit it all in. And thus the community hub is really important too, because any conversations that were just sparked could happen there, and that let the conversation continue, too. So that was good. Magdalina Atanassova: And now that you allow the community to influence the space and what happened during the days of the event, do you help them, you know, follow through? Is there any mechanism that you're using to help them and see the progress of, of those ideas? Natalie Thompson: Well, I'll start, but Valerie has really been instrumental in helping with that piece. And so the conference, we didn't want it to just be another conference. There's a number of conferences that exist in the world, and they're all great. And so this is not anything about those other conferences, but we really wanted to make sure that this was not one of those conferences that felt inaccessible. And we wanted folks to be able to see themselves. In order for you to see yourself, you need to see representation. You need to know how you might fit into this work. You need to know that there's an opportunity for you to engage, and it doesn't have to be on this large scale or doesn't necessarily have to be political or whatever it is. And so from the very beginning, from our first plenary session, we opened up with really talking about, like, welcome, we want you to see yourselves here, and we want you to, like, think about, where do you fit in? Where do you go from here? And we told everyone that we're going to follow up with you. And so about two weeks after the conference, we sent out a survey to ask, so what'd you think? Did you have a good time? What would you have liked to have seen that we didn't have? And then, you know, now that you've been able to network and process this a little bit more, what do you want to do with this information that you gathered? And so we anonymized that survey because we wanted to make sure that folks had the ability to really give their input. But we're doing another step after that and really sort of doing another expression of interest and like a call to action a little bit. For those of you who are in attendance who have really started something, like, we want to be able to follow you. And so we want to create meetings and set up time. So we're going to be following these people over the next year to identify, like, what they're doing in their own sphere of influence. But also, is there a way for us to promote and support, and we'd like to be able to gather this and synthesize this data to be able to Present it a year from now, and maybe we can do that at the World Pride conference that's happening in Amsterdam in 2026. And we also want to make sure that we don't just let this conference sort of live in this one year, but that we continue to do sort of a summit year after year. And so maybe bringing some of those folks back in to have conversations about what they've been doing, how they can support, or what does support look like for them. So this is really just a starting space for us. You know, we're at the end of the beginning of our journey as we step further into this human rights advocacy space. Valerie Sumner: We were very deliberate, too, about connections during the conference as well, through the SCED access and trying to make sure and allow folks to connect themselves and interconnect themselves and personally build those connections that spark conversations that then could lead to other discussions or perhaps another step in the process. So that was a really a thoughtful kind of strategy on that, in addition to all of the things that Natalie mentioned as a bigger organizational focus for follow up. But that was really important as well. We saw a lot of people using that as a vehicle. And then the outreach from the committee and from the conference is ongoing. So that will encourage them and help them remember and help them trigger maybe a different thought. So it won't just end with June. It will continue into the upcoming months for the communication. So that was good. Natalie Thompson: Yeah. And we've also heard from other people who are at the conference who have already let us know that they are planning on speaking at additional conferences. And we had a youth that was there who was a high schooler. It was our youngest attendee, and we made an exception because we were like, we need our youth to be here. And this high school student was like, I really want to talk about education and, you know, lgbtq, human rights. And so we had them as one of our keynote speakers at the very beginning. We were like, we want to highlight the youth that are out here doing it. Right. So. And then they decided to stay the whole time. And I was really excited to see. And they were like, this is, I feel, affirmed. I feel like people are taking me serious as an advocate in this space, and they've already been asked to speak at a number of different other conferences and other spaces globally. And I'm just like, this is amazing. And we've heard from so many of our other speakers and other people that were in attendance that they're already making connections. And it was happening immediately. Folks were really energized and really excited about what we can do now. And that was one of our most important goals, is that folks didn't sort of, you know, walk away, and like, a year from now, they're thinking about it, but they took action immediately. And I. I mean, it was. It was beautiful to witness. Valerie Sumner: Yes. Magdalina Atanassova: Were there any other speakers that stood out or, you know, you had, like, this high schooler. You had an unexpected reaction. Natalie Thompson: Honestly, I think all of our speakers were phenomenal. Like, I don't know that I could put it into. Like, this was a highlight. They were all highlights. And I didn't. You know, you don't always expect that. You don't always just think, like, everything's going to be great. But it was great. And just because it was, people showed up to, like, hear something, and it might have sparked interest, or they were like, oh, you know, I'll just go to this one and see what happens. And so we had folks who are pride leaders that were there. We had politicians that were there. We had former representatives of the un we had of a trans kid who's also in healthcare, talking about their experience as an ally, as healthcare provider. And it was a space where everyone was, I think, elevated to a space of, we are all in this together. And it wasn't sort of, I'm looking at you or you're looking at me, but it was, we are working together. And I don't know that I've ever experienced that at a conference before where everyone was just. It was a beautiful community moment to see that, you know, this person who was in high school was not seen as, like, an inexperienced youth, but they were seen as an expert in their, like, field. And that we're looking at these healthcare providers and, like, you know, they're being looked at as experts, but they're also in conversation with community members who are providing them with additional information for them to think about. And so watching that The Q&As happen and watching them engage with each other, like, the amount of mutual respect that was just present in that space, even in times of, like, critique and, like, really wanting community to, like, bring in, like, what's missing here was just really beautiful to see. And like, this. Watching the speakers, like, really get in there and, like, all right, let's talk about this. Let's take this back to the community hub. Let's. Let's continue that conversation. I mean, I don't want to, like, toot our horn, but, like, it was awesome. Yeah. Valerie Sumner: Yeah, it's pretty amazing. I think I might just throw One other thing too, I don't think we mentioned it at all yet, but there are other things that came into play with the design and with this connection piece. We had an art mode that was created throughout conference. We also had some music, you know, kind of integrated into the breaks and such. The interesting thing to me was to watch this kind of dynamic growth between the first day, the second day, and the third day when this mural that we were working on was really a three day process. The first day was I was talking about justice, and then one day was talking about wellness, and the next day was talking about radical joy. So. And the engagement. As the days went on, everybody seemed to come back and they were conversations about these things and they had to come back and put their little piece on the mural for that day. And it was really exciting to see that and have it. See it spark other conversations, which I thought was really interesting. As I was watching everyone work on this mural, there were conversations that were talking about sessions and other future activations and future activities, and then also the art. So it was really nice to see that kind of playful piece too, that led to a nice community feeling. Magdalina Atanassova: And you described the event as a space for radical joy. So now in hindsight, how did that intention actually show up across the sessions, the physical space and the attendee experience? Roberta Sumner: Well, the radical joy, I think was present throughout. I spent most of my time at the National Theater with the general sessions and we, the energy and the participants and we had to like, make some last minute adjustments. We did a dance off at one point and like, I was surprised at the engagement that happened and you know, it helped that the MC for that day was amazing. But, you know, like, you could just see it. Everybody, everybody's hands went up like, I want to participate. You know, so that was kind of cool to see, like people being that engaged. There was lots of Q and A for the participants. Like, lots of questions were being asked of the speakers. So that was interesting. And some of the questions were pretty hard that some of the speakers weren't quite sure how to answer, you know, but you know, they're like, but we can continue that conversation, you know, so it was, it was great to see that kind of engagement because you, I mean, at conferences sometimes you're like Q and A and everyone sits there. This was like, everybody raised their hand or wanted, or wanted to participate. So there were some fun little things like that that happened throughout the conference. Valerie Sumner: The vibe was really, was really positive. It was, everybody was, you know, engaged most of the interactions and the audience and like, Roberta, even the ushers, where they were, they were all into it at the National Theater. They were excited and they were, you know, they were sharing their joy. Even the security detail with. Into the theater. They were all welcoming and joyful. So it was really. It was exciting. It was. It wasn't like a huge. Every little piece was. Had a little joy in it, which was great. Natalie Thompson: I think one of the spaces that really helped us to capture that joy really goes back to the mural. Like, that was a really joyous space. And it was almost like in the cut a little bit. So it was almost like it was contained joy in that space. So, like, it was a little bit quiet. Valerie Sumner: It's like. Natalie Thompson: Yeah. And then we also wanted to end the conference in a really fun way. So we asked some, you know, nationally or, like, internationally known drag queens to come in and just sort of. They had a conversation around the importance. And we know that's big conversation when that's being a huge politicized conversation right now. And then we were like, what would it look like for us just to end with some really dope drag performances and just, like, let people go off into the rest of the weekend on this, like, joyous high? And so it was just. It started off really fun, and we really wanted to, like, make it a sandwich. We really wanted to sort of, like, start off, like, fun and then sort of like, get into the meat and potatoes of it and then like, sort of end on that high again. And so it was really good to see, but I think they're both right that it was just joy throughout the entire time, even when it was hard. But there was, like, there was a want and a willingness to, like, talk about the hard conversations, but also not lose sight of, we're here to celebrate also. And, like, both things can be true, and that's okay. And I think sometimes that's missing in community because things are really hard right now that we sort of maybe get lost in the suffering. We get lost in the news that we hear. And it doesn't always have to be like that. And one does not have to exist when the other one and the other one can't. So it was just a reminder that we have to celebrate ourselves because, you know, no one else is going to do it. Magdalina Atanassova: Absolutely. That's a very important message, especially I feel for event planners. Sometimes it feels like a rush. You do an event and then you're off to the next one or to the next edition without really stopping to celebrate. So thank you for bringing it Up. What lessons would you share with planners or associations who want to support marginalized communities through their events but are nervous about backlash, funding or safety? Roberta Sumner: I think you just need to do it and you need to plan for every scenario because if you don't keep the conversation going, nothing will change, nothing will, there'll be no results. So creating the environment that we did that was safe, that was comfortable, that was happy, that was joyous is key to recognizing what those marginalized communities are other societies need and just creating that space for them and going to all the extremes that we did to make it inclusive, to have the closed captioning, to have the language translation available, to have the ASL interpreters for every session for both the in person and the virtual audience. Like just making sure that you're covering all your bases and making everyone feel welcome and cared for and don't not do something because that's basically inaction and nothing's going to change. So you've got to keep the conversation in the forefront, you've got to keep it going. And you can do that in a very respectable, nice, comforting fashion, I believe. And that's what I think Natalie and her team and we did for the. Natalie Thompson: Human Rights Conference, well, I would just say, you know, nothing about us, without us. And so if any event planner is wanting to do an event for any community, the community has to be a part of it. And so recognizing sort of what are the boundaries around that. And so like, where do you need to show up? Just understanding the boundaries, understanding being a part of the conversation. And I think for any event to be successful, everyone must be aligned with the mission. Everyone must be in line with the intention. And when I talk about intention and I talk about mission, we're not talking about outcome because when we are really attached to the outcome, we lose sight of like those magical moments where things get to shift into that space to make it the event we want it to be. And so just recognizing that setting that intention is really important and working through that so you can reach an outcome that's really affirming for everybody. Roberta Sumner: Yeah. Valerie Sumner: And I would say for event planners it's, it's really, it's difficult sometimes, but you just have to be brave and you have to be brave and thoughtful and believe in what you're doing and trying to, trying to do and move it forward to the, the best of your ability in the environment that you're in. Because it's really hard. I know it's hard sometimes, but those are the things I would offer just as Thoughts for event planners trying to juggle all that and balance it. Magdalina Atanassova: I hope there will be more hard questions also asked. So when somebody's unsure, just reach out. So I would say to all the event planners that are unsure how to proceed or need more details just to reach out to the three of you and just. I'm sure you are going to share and be able to hold their hand in the process if need be. And speaking about that, how can the rest of the events industry actually help carry that joyful moment forward? Valerie Sumner: I would say the events industry is a pretty big industry, so there's lots of different types of events, obviously. But I would think about your alignment with the mission and the objective and the goals and the passion around the event is really important. And looking at the events industry, taking that passion that you have and others have for that industry or for whatever industry you're in and through the event that you're producing, looking at the ways you can interject and add radical joy moments to it, add purpose to it, make people feel comfortable with it. So I would just say, I guess it's really about how event business, event managers look at that and take that as a goal for when they're planning their strategies and they're planning their conference design to be. That's part of what we do here. That's part of our goal. That's our business of meetings, our business of events, and make that a tenant that drives forward all the events that you're producing. And if every event was doing that, I would assume that. That we would have all this. We'd have tremendous radical joy going on and lots of positive and successful things happening, which we do in events. We see it all the time, people coming together to do great things, solve problems, create solutions. So I think that's what I would say is as a starts with the event planners and works into all of the people around them and the communities they serve. And then it moves forward based on the objectives being prominent in the event. Natalie Thompson: I think it's also pretty cool to just, you know, sort of throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. And so we had a lot of ideas about what we can do. And, you know, when we talked about doing the mural, it wasn't necessarily something we thought about from the very beginning. But I, Valerie was like, oh, I know this person and they are a really great muralist. And we were like, that's such a good idea. And so, like, put all the ideas out there and, like, see what happens. It was pretty, pretty cool. And I had this idea of what if we had, like, a poem, like a World Pride human rights conference poem. And so we had a poem commissioned and it became like this huge thing. But, yeah, it's not necessarily. I think, just don't stick with convention, maybe. I think that's where joy comes in. It doesn't have to always look like everything else. Valerie Sumner: That's a good point. That's a good point. Natalie Thompson: Yeah. Roberta Sumner: I was. I was going to say that. Take chances, do something that's out of the norm, like, you know, because that's. That's innovative. That's different. Don't be afraid to do that, because people were amazed at that poem. And then we had the gal read it at one of the plenary sessions, like that. People told us it was, like, so powerful, you know, like, so don't be afraid to take chances and go out of convention and, you know, do something different. People like it. Natalie Thompson: People push back at first, though, because we did get a bit of pushback. Valerie Sumner: Oh, they do. Roberta Sumner: That's true. Natalie Thompson: And we just said, trust the process. And I think we had faith in ourselves and, like, this idea, and I think we had a lot of fun planning it. And that, I think, really shined in the actual event. Valerie Sumner: There was true inspiration and passion around the whole committee. The whole. It was just. Everybody was. It was. It was heartfelt almost. Right. So there was. It was a higher purpose than. Than just this event. Magdalina Atanassova: So that's how events should be. Was there anything we didn't mention we should before we wrap up? Natalie Thompson: I think we covered it all. Roberta Sumner: Covered a lot of bases. Magdalina Atanassova: Well, thank you so much for. For being on the podcast, for making the time, and for sharing a little bit of radical joy with the rest of the industry. So thank you so much. Natalie Thompson: Thank you, thank you. Magdalina Atanassova: Remember to subscribe to the Convene Podcast on your favorite listening platform to stay updated with our latest episodes. We want to thank our sponsor, Visit Anaheim. Go to VisitAnaheim.org/meetings to learn more. For further industry insights from the Convene team, head over to PCMA.org/convene. My name is Maggie. Stay inspired. Keep inspiring. And until next time.