Latest / Wander the World with Pippa Hudson / Wander the World: Walking the Camino for a good cause

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Wander the World: Walking the Camino for a good cause · Wander the World with Pippa Hudson

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Talking about a subject which I know is special to
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of our visitors, and I know that because
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: the first time I ever heard the term Camino was
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: on the show in this host chair. It was a
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: concept I'd never encountered before. I'd never known anybody who
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: had walked a Camino. It was completely new territory to me.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: And that day, which must have been very early back
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: in sort of 2014 or so, our lines were flooded
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: with Cape Talk listeners sharing their own experiences of a Camino.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: So I'm thrilled today to have the chance to go
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: back to it and to talk about it now from
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: a completely different perspective, because now I'm 50. I've got
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: several friends who for their 50th birthdays and beyond that
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: decided to go and do Caminos. I know people who
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: have walked Caminos in Spain, in France, in Portugal and
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: all over the place. And suddenly it's a concept that
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: begins to look a whole lot more attractive to me personally.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: That little nugget in the back of my head going,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: I really think one day I should try and do that. Well,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: I hope I'm going to be further inspired by our
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: interview today, because with me in studio are two people
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: who are recently returned from their Camino. Alvin and Jean
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Whitten walked a section through Spain, over a thousand kilometers.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: And it's a journey that wasn't just about a travel
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: experience and a personal sort of wish to explore. There
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: was a why behind this walk that is very special
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: as well. So I'm so looking forward to hearing all
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: about it. Welcome to Cape Talk.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. Jean, when did you start first
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: imagining the thought of doing a Camino and what made
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: you decide it was something you wanted to do?
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: Well, I retired from work. I worked for the Human
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: Sciences Research Council and I finished at the end of
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: 2017 when I turned 60. And it was on my
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: bucket list ever since. And I always shared the idea
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: with Alvin and he was equally keen to do it.
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: And then we spent five years in Mozambique.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, wonderful.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: Working there. And on our return, we started saving and
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: preparing for this trip. A dream come true, which we
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: now realized just two months ago.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: So it's all very, very fresh. Alvin, when did you
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: actually set off and how long did you spend on
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: the Camino?
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Well, we set off on the 3rd of September and
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: walked for 32 days to Santiago. So Santiago is actually
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: the place that all the pilgrims– it's called a pilgrimage.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: And everybody goes and they get to Santiago. And it's
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: believed that the remains of the Apostle James has been
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: interred there. And that's what the call was. So, yeah,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: 32 days of walking. It was an amazing experience. Truly. Yeah.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: You know, we're actually living a dream. And you have
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: to pinch yourself to say, we are actually here. This
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: is something we are doing. And I'm just so thankful
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: to have done it with my best buddy.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, the concept might sound strange to somebody who
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: has never talked about this or heard about the experience
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: of a Camino because how is that any different from
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: going on a very long hike? Jean, it's not a hike.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: It's a walk and it's a walk that is Very self-directed,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: I know. You can make your Camino as long or
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: as short as you want it to be, the pace
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: that you set each day, how much you choose to
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: carry or not carry, whether you choose to pre-book accommodation
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: or to just go with the flow. You can sort
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: of self-style it. How did you two decide to do it?
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: And tell us a little bit about what your Camino
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: looked like.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, well, as you mentioned, you can plan your own Camino.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: So we decided that we would carry our own luggage,
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: be as minimalistic as possible and we decided that we'd
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: probably do it over 40 days in order to give
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: ourselves enough time. We were unaware of the terrain. We
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: had been watching very many YouTube videos so we knew
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: of what it looked like and we then also wanted
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: to experience the beauty of the creation and For us,
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: that was very beautiful. And in addition, the meeting of
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: all the most wonderful people on the same journey from all.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Over the world.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: How do you spot one another, Alvin? I mean, obviously,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: it's clear if you are strangers walking on a trail
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: that probably the person who's walking in front of you
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: or behind you is also on a Camino. But there's
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: more to it than that. There is a sort of
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: a sense of community and there are certain markers that
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: help you identify each other. Not so.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, definitely. How do you spot one another? I mean,
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: you just see them walking there with a backpack. And
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: there's a strong sense of community. We sleep in hostels,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: so it's shared accommodation. It's shared facilities. And then also
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: we share meals also. And they come from so many
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: different parts of the world. The emblem for the Camino
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: is the scallop shell.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: And the scallop shell, you will know this, has lines
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: that's all moving in the same direction. And you say
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: to yourself, this is really what the Camino is about.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: It's people from all walks of life, all cultures, all religions,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: all languages, and all walking to one point. And it's
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: such a beautiful analogy for me in life because we
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: are just so different. And we don't realize we are
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: all actually walking in the same direction. So there's that
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: strong sense of sharing and the strong sense of joy.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: I just want to touch upon something else. So you said, yes,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: you can choose the length of your Camino. Some people
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: walk shorter distances. Others walk longer. Others come back to continue.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: But we wanted our Camino to have a deeper purpose.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: And so up front already we decided we were going
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: to walk every day. So to give meaning and purpose
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: to our walk, because there was an added, what we
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: wanted to do was to raise funds for an NGO.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: And we said to the folk, we're going to record
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: every day. We will be transparent. We'll let you know
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: what we are doing so that you can share in
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: the journey with us. And Jean and I, that was
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: our dream.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Jean, tell us more about the NGO that you were supporting.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Because as I said at the start, this was sort
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: of the key driver as much as it was a
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: personal dream and adventure. That sense of purpose that kept
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: you going and got you up every day was very important.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: Right. So we have moved to the area of Sedgefield,
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: which is on the Garden Road. And been living there
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: just for three years since Alvin retired from work.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: And.
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: It's a lovely community with much to do. You really
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: don't need to sit in front of your television every day.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: You can enjoy all sorts of activities. And this NGO
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: is in Sedgefield. It's called Masi Tandani. And Alvin serves
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: on the board. They do so much good work in
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: the community of Sedgefield. They have a creche for children.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: They run a soup kitchen. They have a facility much
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: like a hospice for if you're needing care, post-operative care.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: And they feed many of the people who live in
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: the lower income group housing in the surrounding areas of Smutsville,
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: which is part of Sedgefield. And we identified this to
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: be our beneficiary.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: And I know you've raised, I think it's upwards of
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: R25, 000 and still climbing as a result, which is wonderful.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: As a matter of interest, how did people support? Was
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: it friends and family saying, we'll pay you per kilometre
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: you walk, Alvin? Or did people just make a once-off donation?
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: What did it look like?
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: We just opened it up to them and said, look,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: we were going to walk. and this is the Backer
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Buddy campaign that we've started, they can donate whatever they want.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: And so it was open for all. Masi Tandani means
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: let us love one another. Beautiful. And the way in
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: which that was established, Sedgefield is, as most people see
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: it as Sedgefield, we are not just Sedgefield. We are Smutsville.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: We are Siza Mela. We are a community, you know,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: of different people. social standings and there are such great
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: needs in this community and yeah it's just wonderful to
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: see how everybody reaches out and if I think of
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: Masi Tandani how they how they started out I like
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: the term that they used when they bought the premises
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: there were three families who felt they wanted to buy
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: a premises specifically to help the poor and they purchased
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: this property and on the border of Smutsville and Sedgefield.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: And they've reckoned it to be a ministry to the
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: poor as a witness to the rich. Look how they've
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: tied that in. And today it's still flourishing on that
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: basis and doing very, very well in the community.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Fabulous course to support. I just want to say for
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: anybody who's coming in midway to this conversation that my
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: guests in studio are Alvin and Jean Whitten, who've just
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: returned from walking the Camino in Spain, 30 plus days
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: on the road, on their feet, I should say, and
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: doing it for the purpose of fundraising, as you've just heard,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: but also as part of a sort of a personal
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: mission and I mean, a bucket list item for many people. Jean,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: a huge privilege to see a country on foot because
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: you experience the landscape and the people and the culture
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: completely differently when you're immersed in it like that. Do
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: you want to tell us a little bit about things
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: that you noticed or experienced that you probably would have
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: missed if you'd been there as a tourist on a
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: bus or a train? Sure.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: Well, day one is quite strange. We traveled to France
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: to a town called Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port. And from there, we had
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: to navigate over the Pyrenees Mountains. And the Pyrenees reaches
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: altitudes of 1,250 meters above sea level. Very steep, very taxing.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: And being the first day, you know, you have this
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: backpack on your back, which is not usual, was very tough.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: But the beauty, the views were absolutely amazing. There's a
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: portion of the Camino called the Mesita or the Meseta.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: And for six days, you are walking along mainly flat
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: terrain through wheat fields. It's a different beauty. You appreciate
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: the corn that's growing there and wonderful. What else? Then
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: when you enter the province of Galicia, you have very green,
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: beautiful terrain. And that reminded me a lot of the
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: garden route where we are currently living. Yes, and much
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: of this you don't see if you're just passing by
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: in a vehicle. And to be on foot, wonderful, I
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: must say. We hadn't had a single blister.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I was just about to ask.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: For all of the time that we walked. And beyond Santiago,
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: we did an additional six days of another 100 kilometers
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: to a town called, two towns, with the one called Muchia,
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: and then on to Finisterra, which is known as the
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: end of the world, the end of the earth where
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: the ocean ends.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I think some people carry a rock and throw it
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: into the ocean at the end of that section I've
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: heard before. Personally, by the sounds of things, the less
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: you have to carry that wasn't essential to the trip,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: the better. But that is quite something. All of that
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: distance and no blisters. Had you done any sort of
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: practice hiking before you left or worn in the shoes?
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, how was that possible, Alvin?
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Jean and I are in fact hikers. We are others
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: as well. And we've in fact established our own commando
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: in Sedgefield. It's called the Sedgefield Wilderness Camino. So we
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: are used to hiking and so on. And, Pepper, one
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: other thing I wanted to say was you asked how
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: is it different from driving. You see the sun rise
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: every morning. You know, you smell the vegetation that's around you.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: You are just so close to creation and the creator.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: It's just wonderful.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Completely immersed in all senses, I'm hearing as well. I'd
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: love to hear from other listeners who've walked their Camino
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: because it's different for everybody, I know. But if you'd
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: like to share it with us, please do send a
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: WhatsApp to 0725671567 or ask a question as Lloyd has done.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Lloyd wants to know, how do you join this Camino?
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, as you said, you can create your own,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: plan your own. I know there are people who will
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: help coordinate it for you. Where did you turn for
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: advice when you decided that you wanted to walk? Because
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: there are so many different options.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: Yes, well, there is a Facebook page called Camino de Santiago.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: And you can be part of that group where people
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: are asking questions daily. And you learn so much because,
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: you know, there are those who've done it before who
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: would give you tips on how to pack. They give
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: you tips on how much money you need to spend
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: per day for the various options.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: So start on Facebook, Lloyd. Camino de Santiago is what
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: you're looking for.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: So you were in Spain. Again, just to emphasize, there
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: are portions of the Camino in Portugal, in France. You
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: can combine. There are lots of different options and different lengths.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: So if you are a novice who's not used to
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: walking long distances and you want to just try a
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: shorter section– for starters, you can do that as well.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: I say for starters because all of the people that
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I know who went and did one Camino have either
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: already gone back, in some cases three or four times,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: or are busy planning their return to do another section.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Is that something you guys have spoken about, or does
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: it feel like you've done this trip, it was so
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: much planning, and that was it, or do you think
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: that you might go back and try another piece?
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, they say the Camino will call you back. Yes, okay. But,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: you know, just to answer those folk who are asking
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: how do we start.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: In South Africa, there are many local caminos.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: And it's actually advisable to go out and register for
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: one of them. You won't believe how different it is
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: if you have to walk every day for a certain
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: number of kilometers. Sometimes people think, oh, well, I always
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: walk around in my work, my office. It's not the same.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: You know, so get to the local Camino's, get Camino foot.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: It just makes the whole trip so much more enjoyable
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: when you are there and you are ready and you
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: are able to move.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: And I think that's such an important point. You want
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: to be prepared so that you're not spending half the
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: trip worried about blisters and sore feet and injuries and
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: all of those things. You want to be able to
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: fully appreciate and immerse yourself in the adventure. We have
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: had conversations before on the show and in this segment
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: about the Cape Camino. There's a leg along the West
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Coast as well. I know there are many of them.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: So Lloyd, do a little bit of investigation if it's
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: something that is appealing to you and start with a
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: local version of And you may well find yourself very
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: soon booking your tickets for Spain and France. OK, so
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: any final words of advice for those listening who might
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: be contemplating going on one in the near future? You've
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: talked about the importance of the preparation, Alvin. Jean, is
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: there anything else that you would say, maybe something you
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: wish you'd known before you went or a piece of
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: advice on how to make the most of the opportunity?
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Well, it's very costly. And I can assure you that
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: on this Camino, we encountered two other persons from South Africa.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: And only on the second last day of our walking,
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: they had been told that there was a couple from
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: South Africa because you're often staying at the same albergues
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: or following the same route if you're doing the Francis Way.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: And we were told about them. And as I mentioned,
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: we only got to meet them the second last day
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: So it's very far to go. It's quite a costly undertaking.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: And yes, you can do it. You can save well
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: and you can enjoy the experience if you are prepared.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Okay. Thank you.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: One question, I think I know the answer to, but
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: I'm going to put it to you in case you
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: know better than I do. Roy is asking, what does
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Camino mean? I mean, it's the Camino de Santiago, Santiago
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: de Compostela being the end point. I've always understood that
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: to mean the way of Santiago. Is that correct? That
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: is quite correct. Okay, so it's the way of, Roy,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: and it's the Camino de Santiago is the way that
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: ends at Santiago de Compostela. I'm delighted how much interest
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: there is on our WhatsApp line. I hope we have
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: a lot of people with a little spark lit in
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: the back of their brain today. Thinking about it, Jean.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: I'd just like to mention that you do get a Compostela,
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: a certificate at the end of your walk. And in
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: order to qualify for that, you need to just do
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: the last 100 kilometers from Santiago.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: So....
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: We had walked all of the way from France, but
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: there were very many who joined us from a town
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: called Sarria. And there it's a different Camino because folk
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: are coming to do just either five or seven days
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: of walking in order to qualify for the compass teller.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: And you see the difference going into the bathroom. The
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: ladies are there with their GHD.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Striking their hair and putting on mascara.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Putting their mascara on because of the Instagram opportunities coming up.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: But really, it becomes a different Camino then. But it's
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: your Camino. So enjoy what suits you.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing your Camino with us in such
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: a beautiful and heartfelt way. It's been a real pleasure
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: to have you both with us today and hope to
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: bump into you on the Sedgefield Camino one of these days.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: You've been listening to Alvin and Jean Witten. Thank you
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: so much for sharing the experience. I hope it's inspired
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: a couple of Cape Talk listeners to consider exploring it
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: for themselves. And if you already have, please tell us
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: about your Camino with a WhatsApp to 0725671567. Thanks for
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: joining us. Thank you so much.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Thank you.