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Transcript

“We got him !(?)” · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: On today's show, a grand jury in Manhattan votes to
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: indict Donald Trump. The right turns a school shooting into
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: a culture war. Kevin McCarthy wants Joe Biden to pay
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: a debt ceiling ransom. And Congress might want to ban TikTok.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: Then I talked to the Democrat responsible for the single
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: biggest upset of the 2022 midterms, Congresswoman Marie Glusenkamp Perez.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: But first, a few housekeeping notes. The first two episodes
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: of Stiffed are out now. This is the newest series
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: from Crooked Media and iHeartRadio that takes you on a
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: wild ride through the rise and fall of Viva, the
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: erotic magazine for women. In this eight-part series, host Jennifer
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: Romolini takes you back to New York City in 1973,
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: where Porn King publisher Bob Guccione started a magazine that
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: rocked the publishing world. With a team of feminist writers
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: and editors behind it, Viva had full frontal male nudity, Dan.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Whoa.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Full frontal. Turn around and pause on that.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Check an email, and I hear you just yelling full
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: frontal nudity at the top of your lungs.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: Wanted to make sure you were paying attention during the housekeeping, Dan.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: A fashion section run by Anna Wintour and cover stars
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: like Bianca Jagger. But were they doomed to fail from
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: the beginning? Find out by listening for free right now
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: on your favorite podcast platform. First two episodes of Stiffed
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: are out right now. Also, Women's History Month may be ending,
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: but the conversation continues on Crooked Media's Hysteria. If you're
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: tired of women's issues getting sanitized and trivialized, Erin Ryan
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: and Alyssa Mastromonaco are giving their smart, hilarious takes today.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: on the political and cultural landscape every Thursday, wherever you
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: get your podcasts. All right, let's get to the news. Dan,
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: we got him.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: It's done. It's over.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, so here's what happened. Just so you're all following
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: along at home.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: We recorded the pod, the Thursday pod, and then 10
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: minutes after it was released, 10 minutes, Dan, we learned
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: the news that Donald Trump has been indicted.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I just was sitting... At my computer, I saw a
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Slack message pop up that said, the Thursday pod curse.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: What could this be? Could it be the thing? Yes,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: it was the thing.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: I was in a meeting and didn't even know any
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: of this was happening. Unusual for me, host of Offline.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: I had my phone in my pocket. I wasn't even
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: looking at my phone. Walked back to my desk. And
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: then I heard Michael Martinez just said something like, oh,
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: he was indicted. And I'm like, wait, he was indicted?
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: What?
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: And then everyone's like, oh, yeah, Trump was just indicted.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, thank God the pod's not out yet.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: And then someone told me the pod hadn't been done out.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I have always assumed that the moment Trump was indicted,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: if you or John or Tommy were in a meeting.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Someone would come barreling through the wall like the Kool-Aid
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: man to tell you that. I can't believe they're like–
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: there's no offense to your media company, which I depend
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: on for my livelihood, that there's no meeting so important
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: that it cannot be interrupted for news that Donald Trump
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: has been indicted.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I think Tommy still doesn't know. He's been walking around
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: here somewhere. He hasn't even– yeah.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: He's just like looking at maps of the Donbas.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Anyway, okay.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: So we can't talk about too much right here because
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: we know very little. By the time you hear this pod,
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: hopefully there'll be more information. But basically what happened is
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: a couple sources told the New York Times, and now NBC, CNN,
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: and other outlets have confirmed, every outlet in the world,
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: that the grand jury has voted to indict Donald Trump.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: We don't know the exact charges just yet. We don't
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: know exactly when he will surrender, though we assume that
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: it's been reported in the New York Times that in
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: the coming days, District Attorney Alvin Bragg We'll negotiate the
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: terms of surrender with Trump and the Secret Service and
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: his staff, and he will come.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: And he will be arraigned.
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: We will then find out what exactly the charges are. Obviously,
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: they're focused on hush money payments to Stormy Daniels, but
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: there could be other parts to the indictment. Again, we
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: don't know yet, so we're going to wait and find out.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: But it's funny because when we originally recorded this pod,
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: we talked about the fact that the Manhattan grand jury
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: was reportedly going on a previously scheduled hiatus starting on
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: April 5th. and wasn't going to hear evidence in the
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: Trump case until April 24th. You know, the loophole on
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: that was always, well, maybe they'll vote between now and
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: when they go on hiatus on April 5th.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: And sure enough, that's what happened.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Here we are. Donald Trump has been indicted.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: What do you think, Dan? What's your take?
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Let me see.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Quick take.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: My hot take based on no information on something we've
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: been talking about for literally weeks now. I mean, we
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: tried to do this last week when we thought the
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: indictment was going to drop the next day or moments
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: after that podcast. So I'll try to do this again.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is a historic moment. It shouldn't get
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: lost in whatever the absurd truths are going to come,
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: what the MAGA media idiots say is that the former
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: president of the United States and the leading contender to
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: be the Republican nominee for president again was indicted for
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: a crime. and is going to be pursuing that presidency
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: while also trying to fight a conviction in court. That
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: is a gigantic deal, and there's a lot of questions
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: to be answered and things to be explored with the
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: fact that most of his party is going to stick
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: with him right through this and defend him to the core,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: even despite whatever electoral and political implications this may have.
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's remember that much of the 2016 election revolved
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: around The fact that Hillary Clinton was under federal investigation
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: for email protocol to which she was cleared of any
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: charges and not indicted at all. And that still hurt
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: her considerably. And here we are with Donald Trump actually
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: being indicted.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, Tommy, you want to come in?
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Finally, someone who interrupted a meeting on a free in
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: the crooked media.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: And now we have Donald Trump who has been indicted.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: One of potentially multiple indictments. And, perhaps the least severe
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: indictment in terms of the crime committed.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: And maybe this will spark an indictment fever among all
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: the other people investigating Donald Trump.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, one of the questions we asked in the
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: old part of the pod that you're not going to
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: hear is, will Jack Smith now beat Alvin Bragg to
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: get the first indictment of Donald Trump? Now it looks
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: like Bragg wins. Bragg wins the race, but special counsel
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Jack Smith is out there He has got a federal
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: judge has ordered Mike Pence to testify of hang Mike
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: Pence fame about his interactions with Donald Trump leading up
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: to January 6th. And another federal judge ordered Mark Meadows
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: and a bunch of other Trump senior staff to testify
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: as well. So the January 6th investigation by the special
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: counsel is proceeding. The classified documents investigation. is proceeding as
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: is the Fulton County DA's investigation into Trump overturning the
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: election in Georgia.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: And I think if I remember correctly from many pods ago,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: talking about that looming indictment in Fulton County, that grand jury,
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: I think they seek grand juries on a monthly basis.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: And next week is the first week in April. So
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: they may get cracking on that one too, because Fannie
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Willis is sitting on a recommendation, which we have, we
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: don't know, but we have reason to believe is that
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: the people around Donald Trump and possibly Donald Trump included
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: should be indicted.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Man, this is, it's indictment season. Here it is.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: In like a lion, out like a lamb.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: Okay, so when we come back, you will hear the
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: rest of the show minus the original indictment talk, which
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: is certainly events have overtaken that. And then we'll be
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: back on Monday's pod to have, you know, better takes.
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: Takes that are Takes that have marinated over a weekend
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: of analysis and possibly more reporting.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what we're going to do.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: RIP to our top analysis and excellent jokes from that
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: section of the pod that no one over here.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: We will be right back with the rest of the
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: originally scheduled Thursday pod.
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: We have a few stories to cover, starting with the
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: fallout from another gut-wrenching mass shooting at a Nashville elementary
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: school that left six people dead. including three nine-year-old students.
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: It was America's 130th mass shooting this year. A reminder,
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: it is only the end of March. And the 19th
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: school shooting. Altogether, we've lost 63 children to gun crimes
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: in 2023. In Nashville, the killer was reportedly a 28-year-old
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: former student at the private Christian school who was able
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: to legally purchase seven firearms, including the AR-15 used in
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: the shooting. despite being under care for an emotional disorder.
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: But the fact that weapons of war are easily accessible
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: to young people with mental health issues hasn't really been
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: mentioned by Republican politicians or right-wing media types, who've instead
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: focused on the gender identity of the killer.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: There is a theory that the trans identity may have
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: played a role in the motivation of the shooting. We
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: also don't know the extent to which drug therapy of
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: any sort, transgender related or non-transgender related, also might have
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: come into play here.
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: We can only talk about the guns. We can't know
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: what kind of drugs she was taking, what kind of
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: hormones or SSRIs or benzodiazepines.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: We can only guess.
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: The trans movement is targeting Christians, including with violence. So
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: Christianity and transgender orthodoxy are wholly incompatible theologies. They can
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: never be reconciled. They are on a collision course with
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: each other. One side is likely to draw blood before
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: the other side.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: That's just a small sampling of what has quickly become
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: the right-wing obsession of the week. Politicians like J.D. Vance
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: and Marjorie Taylor Greene have also used the shooting to
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: demonize all trans people.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: It's vile.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: It is dangerous at a time when violence against trans
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: people is at an all-time high. And it's just gross.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: What's the best way to respond to that garbage, do
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: you think?
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: I think it has to be stated that just because
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: the one individual who did this heinous act may happen
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: to be trans says nothing about the trans community or
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: any other trans person walking the face of the planet.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: And to suggest otherwise, as you say, is deeply dangerous.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: It is an absolutely dangerous thing to do that could
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: potentially lead to more violence. And so I think it
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: is completely fair to tell these attention-starved hobgoblins to fuck
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: right off. for the way they talk about this. It
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: is absolutely, it's disgusting and it's dangerous. Now, we take
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: a deep breath and we think about how we respond
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: to this in a political context, how individual folks like us,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Democratic politicians, et cetera, deal with this. And I think
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: it is important to acknowledge that Democrats have a moral obligation,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: a political imperative to stand up here, to defend trans
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: people from these accusations, from the bigotry emanating from Republicans,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: from the laws that are being passed across this country.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: We absolutely have to do that. And the way I
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: would do it in this instance is to say that
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Republicans are trying to demonize trans people and divide this
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: country to distract from the fact that they oppose the
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: common sense bipartisan solutions that would prevent tragedies like these.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Bans on assault weapons, universal background checks, red flag laws
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: that would prevent dangerous people from getting access to guns.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: That is why they are doing this. And it is,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: and we should call that fact out and not try
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: to ignore this. It's not taking the bait. It is
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: doing the right thing and providing context and facts about
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: what is happening. It is not playing their game. It's
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: calling out their game.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, look out of the thousands of horrific mass shootings,
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: this country has endured over the last decade. Three of
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: the killers have been trans more than 99%. Uh, of
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: the killers are cisgender. Most are men, most are white,
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: most have mental health issues. Some are motivated by hate
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: towards people who are different than them, usually because of
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: their race or ethnicity or religion. What they all had
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: in common was easy access to guns, which also, by
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: the way, separates them from all of the cis white
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: men with mental health issues or extremist views in other countries,
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: because they don't have as easy access to guns in
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: other countries.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: And so they don't have as many mass shootings. And
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: that's just, that's also true. I mean, the right you're
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: calling out the rights game here.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: And this is, this is what they're, this is what
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: they've been trying to do now for the last several years.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: Like they want us to believe that because a mass
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: shooter happened to be trans, that we should be afraid
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: of all trans people, even though trans people are far,
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: far more likely to be the victims of violence and
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: the perpetrators of violence. But you know, someone's, they need
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: a villain. Someone's got to be the villain. Muslims, gays, Jews, immigrants.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: Now it's trans people coming for our kids.
• 13:10
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: And it's, it's not like, oh, I have concerns about
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: pronouns or bathrooms or sports. It's now, you hear it
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: from Tucker, you hear it from all these folks on Fox,
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: you hear it from Ben Shapiro. These are violent radicals
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: who are coming for our kids, right? So we need
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: a parents' rights movement. And it's like, you know what?
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: How about a fucking parents' rights movement for us too? Like,
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: I think parents should have the right to send their
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: kids to a school where they're not going to be
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: murdered in their classroom. And parents should have the right
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: to send their kids to a school where they're going
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: to be taught to show respect and kindness to every
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: other person they meet. Whatever they look like, wherever they
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: come from, wherever their family looks like, that's like a
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: parents' rights movement that I think Democrats should demand. I
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: think we should demand that we should send our kids
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: to school where they don't ban books or try to
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: cover up uncomfortable parts of our history. You know, it's
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: just like, I totally agree that we cannot, it's not
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: about taking the bait. It's like, don't let them own
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: the issue of like what parents want and what's good
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: for our kids. Because what they want is, this is bullshit.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: They are trying to play a game where they fucking
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: scare people and they turn people against one another and
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: particularly people against groups who may be different, who people
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: don't have experience with, right? And so they know there's
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: a lot of people in this country who maybe don't
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: know a trans person. And so they're going to scare
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: the shit out of those people by making shit up
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: about what the trans people want. When all they really want,
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: when all trans people really want is to fucking be
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: left alone to live their lives.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Republican ideology demands a scary other. You can look at
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: every Republican election and they pick one every single time
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: and a societal acceptance grows for those groups. As those
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: groups gain more political power or more civil rights, they
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: move on to the next one. And so in 2004,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: the Republicans ran a campaign that was based entirely on
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: a completely bullshit constitutional amendment to gin up homophobia to
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: get their base. And as the country became more comfortable
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: with gay marriage and civil rights for gay Americans, they
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: switched to trans people. And they're going to keep going
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: and going and going. That's what they've been doing for
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: the entire history of the modern Republican Party.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And we should and we should not look.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: And there was another like a PBS poll yesterday, a
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: marriage poll, too, that showed there, you know, it's like
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: up to 60 percent of Americans don't support a ban
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: on gender affirming therapy. They don't support a ban on
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: drag shows as is happening in Tennessee and other places.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: So they don't support this bullshit. And Democrats should know
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: that and feel confident about that when you go out
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: and actually do what you said is our moral obligation
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: to actually defend all groups from Republican attacks that Republicans
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: try to otherize. President Biden and other Democrats have called
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: on Congress to reinstate the assault weapons ban. Democrats in
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: state houses have been trying to pass other gun safety
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: measures like background checks, red flag laws, and raising the
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: age to buy semi-automatic rifles. They keep running into a
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: wall of opposition from most Republicans and even some Democrats.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: You know, we have the same fucking conversation every time
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: a mass shooting happens. Like, and it feels like nothing
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: ever changes. You know, obviously there was a bipartisan, first
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: bipartisan gun safety legislation in a decade.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Passed last year. So that's good.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: And yet, every single one of these mass shootings, there's
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: another AR-15 at play here. And there's another someone who had,
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: there should have been a red flag law, someone who
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: had mental health issues was able to buy a weapon
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: of war. How do Democrats start changing the politics on
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: this issue? Where do we even begin?
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: I think there's a misunderstanding about the politics of guns.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Democrats have largely changed the politics on the issue. They
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: have changed dramatically in years. The issues that we are
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: talking about, the policies that would go a long way
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: to stopping some of these things from happening are broadly popular.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: And they're broadly popular among all groups. And they're even popular,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: in many cases, among gun owners. This is not a
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: question about messaging. It's a structural impediment in our system
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: that prevents majority policies from being enacted in our government.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: It is because of things that we talk about these
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: all the times. the filibuster, the Senate and Electoral College
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: map that give disproportionate political power to the minority position
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: on issues like guns. And it's the long, hard work
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: of fixing our democracy. It is voting rights. It's getting
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: rid of the filibuster. It's making DC a state. It's
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: giving Puerto Rico the option to be a state. It's
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: reforming the courts because one of the problems we have
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: is that even in states like New York, where Democrats
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: have the power to pass laws, then you have a
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: rigged right-wing Supreme Court who offers completely novel interpretations of
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: the Second Amendment that people wouldn't even begin to proffer
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: for centuries to undercut those laws. And so there is
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: no easy answer. There is no quick message. There's no
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: bumper sticker. There is the long, hard work of bringing
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: our political system in line with majoritarian positions in this country.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: I like, I think that part of this is I
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: just had this interview with Congresswoman Glusenkamp-Perez, who is in
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: a very rural district where she doesn't even support a
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: ban on assault weapons. And when I asked her why,
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: she talked about how it's a tough issue for people
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: in that district.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: And I was like, but why? They use a rifle
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: to go hunting. Why do you need an AR-15?
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: And it sounds like that there's just a lot of
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: people who still need convincing that this isn't just, oh,
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: we won the politics and we have the majority position.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: And now we just got to, you know, add a
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: couple of states and get rid of the filibuster because,
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: you know, like someone else, John Tester, he's up for reelection.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: If he wants an assault weapons ban, he doesn't want
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: an assault weapons ban. So there's a bunch that we
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: don't even have that. I don't think we have 51
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: Democrats for an assault weapons ban.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: We didn't have a majority of the House last time around.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: So obviously there are structural impediments in our democracy to
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: getting through positions that have majority support. But I also
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: think there's some bottom-up politics and conversations that need to
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: happen to continue pushing on this issue.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: And I do agree that we've made progress.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: I was surprised when I did the focus groups for
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: the wilderness last time how many times— like I wasn't
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: surprised that inflation came up all the time from people
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: and abortion because of Dobbs. But I would say the
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: third issue that came up, just people on their own
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: bringing it up was gun violence. And these were like,
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: you know, I was talking to like people on the
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: excerpts of Pittsburgh who were like, I believe in owning
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: a gun. I believe in gun rights, but I think
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: we need to take some common sense steps. I think
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: we need to get rid of assault weapons. So I
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: do think that we have made some progress on the politics,
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: but I think there's probably a lot more work to do.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair. And I think of the
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: three issues that we've talked about here, assault weapons is
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: the most challenging, which seems insane to people like us,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: but that is the case.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: And I do think 51 new state laws last year
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: gun safety laws, in addition to that federal, the first
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: federal legislation in decades. So you are, and those 51
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: state laws include, there was an assault weapons ban in Delaware.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: There was high capacity magazine bans in four other states.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: So you are starting to see some progress on the
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: state level. So people shouldn't lose hope. But I do think, look,
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: if I was, I think part of this is Democrats
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: shouldn't be afraid, right? Like, I don't think there's a
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: ton of consultants who would tell you if you're running
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: a race to like, run ads about guns and gun violence.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: But I don't I think that the fact that we're
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: seeing these horrific massacres in schools, I really believe that
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: will connect with parents, even parents who happen to be
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: gun owners in a more visceral way, at least in
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: some communities.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Turning to this week's other headlines in special counsel Jack
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: Smith's January 6th investigation into Trump. A federal judge has
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: ordered former Vice President Mike Pence of Hank Mike Pence
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: fame to testify against to a grand jury about his
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: conversations with Donald Trump leading up to the day he
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: was almost hung. A judge also ordered Trump Chief of
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: Staff Mark Meadows and other senior White House Trump aides
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: to testify as well.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: What do you think?
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think we... I think there are two
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: points to acknowledge here. One is these prosecutors absolutely have
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: to get this right. And that can take time.
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: Agreed.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: If there is.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: a hole in one of these cases, a piece of
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: exculpatory evidence missed or something, it will dramatically damage the
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: effort for accountability, both legal and political. Even if nothing
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: happens with a criminal case, I think if there was
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: some screw up by federal, state, or local officials trying
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: to charge Donald Trump with a crime, that would be
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: weaponized in a way that could be very damaging to
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: the effort to hold him accountable. The second point here
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: is I think as we are looking at the clock here,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: it seems to me to be possible, maybe even probable,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: that we will reach election day and none of these
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: cases will come to a conclusion. Maybe he'll be indicted
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: for multiple crimes in multiple districts, but it seems very,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: very possible that there will not be a trial, a conviction,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: or anything else. And that once again brings us back
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: to where we have been for so many years, which
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: is the only people who can solve the Trump problem
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: are the voters. It's all of us. It is to
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: beat him and beat him Badly enough this time that
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: it is a mortal blow against mag extremism. I just
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: don't think that we can wait for Fannie Willis or
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Jack Smith or Alvin Bragg to solve this problem for us.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's going to happen.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: But it could also be Chris Christie, Dan. He is
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: the newest potential primary opponent for Donald Trump. He was
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: in New Hampshire this week testing the waters with a
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: town hall where he said that Republicans need a candidate
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: who isn't afraid to take on Trump directly.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Let's listen.
• 23:27
  Speaker 6: You better have somebody on that stage who can do
• 23:31
  Speaker 6: to him what I did to Marco. Because that's the
• 23:36
  Speaker 6: only thing that's going to defeat Donald Trump. You have
• 23:40
  Speaker 6: to be fearless because he will.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Come back.
• 23:44
  Speaker 6: And right at you. And so you need to think
• 23:47
  Speaker 6: about who's got the skill to do that and who's
• 23:51
  Speaker 6: got the guts to do it because it's not going
• 23:54
  Speaker 6: to end nicely. Donald Trump said a couple weeks ago,
• 23:58
  Speaker 6: I am your retribution. Guess what, everybody? No thanks. The
• 24:04
  Speaker 6: only person he cares about is him. And if we
• 24:08
  Speaker 6: haven't learned that since Election Day of 2020 to today,
• 24:12
  Speaker 6: then we are not paying attention.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: What do you think, Dan? Is Chris Christie the one
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: we've been waiting for?
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Why is he doing that weird stage whisper thing?
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: It's like he's trying to– do you watch Breaking Bad?
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, of course.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: It's like he's trying to do the I'm the one
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: who knocks speech for Breaking Bad. Look, I don't think
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: there is a lane in Republican politics or frankly American
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: life for Trump opponent turned Trump advisor turned Trump debate
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: critic termed almost Trump victim turned Trump critic again. I
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: don't think that's a real thing. I do. If Chris
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Christie's goal is to get in the race and just
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: be the anti-Trump person and the one to have the
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: quote unquote courage to call Trump a loser repeatedly, that
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: probably has some marginal value to defeating Donald Trump. I
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: don't think it ends in Chris Christie getting more than
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: 2% of the votes, but I think he's someone who
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: gets press attention. He's a pretty good performer on stage.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: You could see him getting under Trump's skin in debates. So,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: you know, I guess in the sense that it's marginally
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: helpful content for us, kudos. Welcome to the race.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Two points here.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: One, Is that your prediction for how he finishes? Two points?
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: It's like Connor Roy.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: I'm worried that they're worried that I'm going to get
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: squeezed down from 1%. Isn't 1 the lowest number? That's
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: Christie and Pompeo and the rest. Number one, I went
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: back because I forgot what the debate moment between the
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: specifics of the debate moment between Christie and Rubio. Now
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: that Chris Christie is out there basically saying that his
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: main credential for running against Donald Trump in 2024 is that.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: He brutally assaulted Marco Rubio on a debate stage.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: And it's like Marco Rubio gives this dumb memorized 25
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: second speech about, uh, you know, Barack Obama and Chris
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: Christie points out that it's a, that it's a memorized
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: speech that's talking points. And then like a little later, uh, Marco,
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: because he's a dumbass, trips on his own feet again
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: and just walks right back into the attack by repeating
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: again the 25-second speech.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: About Barack Obama. And Chris Christie merely points out that
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: he did.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: That was it. That's why we need Chris Christie in
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: that arena. Because he was able to point out that
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: the blow-drag talking points candidate repeated himself again on a
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: debate stage.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Look, he took out one of the least talented people
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: to ever run for president in the history of the
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: United States. Kudos to him.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: And also, you alluded to Trump almost making him the victim.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: I forgot, like... Trump knew he had COVID, didn't tell anyone,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: goes to debate prep with Chris Christie, gives Chris Christie COVID,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: puts him in the hospital, calls Chris Christie, and instead
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: of saying, how are you doing, says... are you going
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: to tell people that I was the one who gave
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: it to you?
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Which Chris Christie did not do until his book came
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: out long after the election.
• 27:22
  Speaker 7: Right, right. That was still not enough for Chris Christie
• 27:26
  Speaker 7: because months after the 2020 election, after that happened to him,
• 27:29
  Speaker 7: Laura Ingram's like, okay, so would you vote for Joe
• 27:32
  Speaker 7: Biden if it's Trump Biden in 24 again?
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: And Chris Christie's like, no, I would not vote for
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden. He didn't say he would vote for Donald Trump.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: He also didn't rule it out. But like, come on, man.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: The guy almost killed you. And then you're in the
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: hospital and he calls you up and he's like, hey,
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: you got a tattle on me?
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: It's fucking real. Love it.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Love it.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: But you're right. Yeah. Anytime he's out there attacking Donald Trump. Great.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: We'll take it.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: All right, let's finish up here with Congress, where both
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: parties may soon come together to ban TikTok, even as
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: they remain incapable of simply paying the bills necessary to
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: stave off a global economic crisis. This is, of course,
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: all thanks to Kevin McCarthy and House Republicans who sent
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: a letter to the White House this week that whined
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: about Joe Biden's refusal to engage in hostage negotiations. And
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: they also laid out a few vague demands that include
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: massive spending cuts, reclaiming unspent COVID funds, work requirements for
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: Medicaid and food assistance, lower energy costs, and increased border security.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: Biden wrote back and basically said, come up with an
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: actual budget proposal like I did, and maybe we can talk.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: What do you think McCarthy's up to here? What do
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: you think of Biden's response? And should we be hiding
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: our money in mattresses yet?
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Do we have any current mattress sponsors?
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: So yeah, grab your, get your Helix. There's a spot
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: in the Helix for your money.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 29:09
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Anyhow, McCarthy, I believe– it's always hard to tell like
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: how– why he does certain things. But I think he
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: recognizes that he is at a disadvantage here because the
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: things that his party wants are deeply unpopular and were
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: he to put out a budget, people would know that fact.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: If he doesn't put out a budget, it looks like
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: he's not serious. So he's trying to move the conversation
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: to areas where he might have a little more political support,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: notably– The very famous budget issue. lower energy costs and
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: border security. Look, that is an area where Republicans have
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: some advantage on Democrats in some polls. The problem with
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: that for him is it gives up the game because
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: it proves that he's not in this for– the debt
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: ceiling is not a budget issue. He's only trying to
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: get a Democratic president, Democratic Senate to do things they
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: would not otherwise do if someone wasn't threatening to blow
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: up the global economy if they didn't do it. And
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: so he's trying to kind of.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: He explicitly said that this week because someone's like– some
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: reporter was like, what about your budget proposal? He's like,
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: the budget has nothing to do with the debt ceiling.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: It's separate. Like, yeah, exactly. It's– I mean– He's so dumb.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: He is incredibly down. The thing to worry about here
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: is not– because if this were to stay on its trajectory,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Republicans could still stumble ass backwards into a default for sure.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Kevin McCarthy is always capable of that. And there are
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: reasons to be very worried. But Democrats definitely would– if
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: they held together, would I believe in combination with some
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Senate Republicans be able to force the House Republicans to
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: do some things they wouldn't otherwise do. The challenge here
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: is The one and only Joe Manchin, who decided to
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: take to the pages of the Wall Street Journal to
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: write an insane op-ed attacking Joe Biden and somewhat not
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: so vaguely threatening to work with Republicans on the debt
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: ceiling for unspecified spending cuts.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: He's going to be a real pain in the ass
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: on this.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems that way.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: Because his approval rating in West Virginia took a real
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: dive after he supported the Inflation Reduction Act. And now
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: he thinks he wants to maybe run again, clearly. And
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: it certainly seems like he's going to try to set
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: himself up to either leave the party, become an independent
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: or just, you know, if not run against Joe Biden,
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: the Democrats in this race, because that's probably the only
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: key to his political survival. You can put me down
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: as extremely worried about default, particularly after I read a
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: couple of quotes from Patrick McHenry, who's the financial services
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: committee chair. And he's like a McCarthy ally. He's seen
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: as like a serious budget person. He's also sort of
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: been acting as a bridge between McCarthy and the, and
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: the kooks and the caucus. And he said, just, just
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: this week, I don't see how we get there. I
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: don't even see a path. I've never been more pessimistic
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: about where we stand on the debt ceiling. And we've
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: been in some bad situations before.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Yikes.
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: It's not, as they say, not great.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: I don't, you know, like, I think that, It's tough
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: to talk about the politics of this one because it's like, yeah,
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: I think that the Biden and the Democrats have the
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: upper hand right now because McCarthy's an idiot and clearly
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: they can't even come up with the budget.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: They can't agree.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: In order to take a hostage, you've got to figure
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: out what your demands are. You can't try to take
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: the hostage and then threaten to kill the hostage, but
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: you're like, unless you give me, I don't know.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure yet. You tell me what I'm supposed
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: to ask for. That's what he's saying right now. So like, yeah,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: despite the fact that he's a dipshit, It seems pretty
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: dark right now.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: I don't know how– I think either Kevin McCarthy loses
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: his job or we default. I don't know that Kevin
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: McCarthy can keep his job and we lift the debt
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: ceiling at this point.
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: The folks at Punchbowl reported this week that McCarthy is
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: considering a short-term– to pass a short-term extension to get–
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: to try to line up the debt ceiling and the
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: budget fight. for government funding.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Even though he thinks they don't have to do with
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: each other.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, even though they have no– just out of coincidence,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: that's what that would happen. And that will be– how
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: that plays itself out will tell us a lot. Does
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: he do a clean extension? Does he do what they
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: did in 2011, which is pass a short-term extension with
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: a spending cut attached to it, like a little haircut
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: as they call it? Do Democrats go along with that?
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: It's going to be– it's going to sort of give
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: us the contours of it. But they're time is running
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: short here and we are not making real progress. And
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: that's kind of the wrong framework to look at it
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: because progress is Republicans passing it. Progress is not some
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: fake meeting. It's do they do their actual job? And
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: they have shown less inclination to do so than they
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: did at the outset.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: So put your money in that mattress. Put your money
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: in the Helix. All right.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: I mentioned a potential TikTok ban, which has united politicians
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: from both parties after the company's CEO testified before Congress
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: last week. The goal was to put lawmakers at ease
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: about Chinese ownership of the platform.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: He did the opposite.
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: There's now a bipartisan bill that would give the federal
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: government the authority to regulate technology produced by countries like
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: China that have an adversarial relationship with the United States.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: McCarthy says he's interested in moving something like this legislation
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: through the House. The bill has about 22 sponsors in
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: the Senate, and the White House says that they support
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: it as well. You wrote a message box on this
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: topic last week. What do you think should happen, and
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: what are the politics here for Biden and the Democrats?
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know what should happen and really no one
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: does because it seems pretty clear that the members of
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Congress and the administration who have seen the intelligence on
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: whatever the connections are and then the activity with the
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Chinese government and TikTok are worried. They see there's a threat.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: They have not told us what that is, other than
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: the fact that we know that TikTok has already admitted
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: to spying on a US journalist who was doing reporting
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: on the company, which seems like, I don't know, a
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: giant fucking red flag. But if there is going to
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: be something as drastic as a ban, I think the
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: federal government and the intelligence agencies have to be as
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: transparent as possible about what the reason is. You can't
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: just say, trust us. The intelligence agencies have not earned
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: that right. And I know that's complicated because the information
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: is classified and revealing it could disclose the people and
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: the methods that got us that information. But you can't
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: ban the most popular social media app in the country
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: without explaining it. So I think that if they're going
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: to do that, they have to do it. The White
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: House's support for the bill is interesting because this is
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: really like the Hot Potato Act. It's like Congress isn't
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: going to ban it. They're going to give Joe Biden
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: the ability to ban it. But I think that's part–
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: the reason the White House supports it is to increase
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: leverage on ByteDance to sell TikTok to a US company,
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: which is what the government is trying to force TikTok
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: to do, which would solve a lot of these problems
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: short of a ban. The politics are complicated. China– the
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: American people have never seen China as a greater threat
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: than they do right now, at least in the decades
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: that Gallup has been polling opinions on China.
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: The approval rating of China is 15% in the United States.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: To put that in perspective, Russia is at 9%. So
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: deeply unpopular. There are majorities of just about every single
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: group support banning TikTok. Almost two-thirds believe that the Chinese
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: government is accessing our data. Majorities believe that the Chinese
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: government is using TikTok to influence American politics. The only
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: groups that oppose a ban are Democrats and and younger
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: voters who are disproportionately Democrats and dependent, and that Democrats
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: depend on to win elections. So there are no easy
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: politics in whichever way you go here.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I do think this is tough.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, you raised the concerns about the Chinese government
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: collecting data through the app, which again, a lot of
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: that information is classified, so we don't know. But even
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: that aside, the fact that Chinese Communist Party controls all
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: companies in China, and therefore controls maybe one of the
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: most popular and powerful algorithms in the world right now,
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: and certainly one that a lot of the Americans use,
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: that maybe 100 million Americans use, that's concerning.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: This is an authoritarian government.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: This is a government who is supporting Putin in his war,
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: that has trampled minority rights in China. This is not
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: This is not just some random government across the world
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: that it's only like xenophobia that's driving this, right? They
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: are an authoritarian government that has an adversarial relationship with
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: the United States and controls this algorithm and potentially is collecting.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Data from us. Like, I do think it's a tough one.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: It's not just like, well, a lot of young people
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: like the app, so we can't do anything.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, we've seen foreign governments use American-owned apps to
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: influence our politics, much less popular ones than TikTok. I
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: think we have to be careful on how– like I
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: laid out what the polling says. I think it's possible
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: the politics of a ban are slightly overstated. It's pretty
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: demeaning to young people to suggest that there are all
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: these young people who care about access to abortion and
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: civil rights for all Americans and climate change and all
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: this other stuff. But– If you ban their favorite social
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: media app, they'll sit out the election. I don't think
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: that– Yeah, yeah. But you can see how right-wing forces
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: would weaponize a ban on TikTok to try to drive
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: a wedge between the young voters Democrats need and the
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: 80-year-old president running for re-election. That is Biden's hardest group
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: always is younger voters. So that would be one more
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: brick on the load, one more thing that would– that
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Democrats and Joe Biden would have to navigate. to engender
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: the support and turnout levels you need among that group
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: to win in 2024. So it's complicated.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: And how many young people who are using the app
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: who suddenly see it go away if a ban goes
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: into effect have heard the reasoning for banning the app
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: in the first place, right? Or they just hear something
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: about China and they're like, what are they talking about?
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean? It's a tough, it's a
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: tough argument to not only to make, but to make
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: sure that everyone hears.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you've just taken away the way in which they
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: get news and now you need them to get information.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: So it's like, yes.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: Are they going to get it dying Twitter? You know, some,
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: some progressives have been making the argument like, well, there's,
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: plenty of other American social media companies whose algorithm is bad,
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: like Facebook and Twitter.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, no, I know. They're very bad too.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: We should do something about them as well.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: We should regulate them all. We should regulate them for sure.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: It's not an.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Either or in my mind. Let's not stop at the
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: TikTok algorithm. That's my position. Okay.
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: When we come back, I'll talk to the new Democratic
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: House member from one of the reddest districts in America,
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: Marie Glusenkamp-Perez. Joining me now is a Democratic freshman representing
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: Washington's 3rd District, Congresswoman Marie Glusenkamp-Perez.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the pod.
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much. So glad to be here.
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: So you are a 34-year-old auto repair shop-owning pro-choice mom
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: who pulled off the biggest upset of the 2022 midterms
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: in a rural district that Donald Trump won twice.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Two questions to start. Why did you do it and
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: how did you do it?
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: Because I didn't want to be represented by a fascist
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: in Congress. That's good. Good answer. There's no one else
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: stepping up. So I was running against this guy, Joe Kent,
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: who's like besties with Matt Goetz. And they like wear
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: each other's T-shirts. He was like holding fundraisers for him.
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: It's cute, but it's horrifying. And he was saying stuff
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: like we should ban all immigration for the next 20
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: years to reestablish a white majority. And like bananas, right?
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: And I really believe like the antidote to this sort
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: of brand of extremism is not like white dudes who
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: have a law degree and no kids. It's people that
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: work in the trades and who live in rural communities
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: and can directly address like the reality of families in
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: America today. Yeah.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: And so- how did you pull it off?
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: Because I know the, the district was represented before by
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: Jamie Herrera Butler, and then Joe Kent wins the primary
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: on the Republican side. And so we have an extreme
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: Republican candidate, but in the district, that's still really tough
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: for a Democrat to win. And I know you won
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: by about 1%. Um, so how did, how did.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: You do it?
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: How did I pull it off? Um, barely. So like
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: it was, it was, it was a squeaker, but, um,
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: So a couple of things like national players, like never
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: got involved in my race. So I never got coaching
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: on how to sound like smart and polished. And I
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: just got to be myself. And I really believe what
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: people want is normalcy. Like we want people that pay
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: their own taxes and like, you know, that are on
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: all the wait lists for daycare and are trying to
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: navigate the world, like running a small business, like that's
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: what people want. And when we're able to communicate that,
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: like that is how we can be relevant in rural communities,
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: people that, you know, work for a living. So yeah,
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: I think, I think, and I also think I'm not,
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: I'm not that special. Like there are candidates like me
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: all over the place that, we could be recruiting, like
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: we could be supporting, and we're not. And we need
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: to do a better job of changing the criteria of
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: who we think makes a good candidate.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: I'm sure you must have encountered quite a few undecided
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: voters during the campaign, either folks who would normally vote Republican,
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: who've probably supported Herrera-Butler in the past, weren't sure what
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: they were going to do, some people who weren't sure
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: if they were even going to vote. what was the
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: most common thing you said or the most common argument
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: you made that sort of changed people's minds, got them
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: off the fence?
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Like the things in America are not going to
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: get better until we start electing a Congress that looks
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: more like America. Like, you know, um, and, and just like,
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: so my, my opponent, Joe Kent is going to be like,
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: he's like the anointed candidate in my race. And this
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: is a guy that's talking about banning, you know, I've, I've,
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: right so when you repeat what he says people people
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: listen to that and you know when we talk about
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: the the reality um listen like nobody stays awake at
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: night worrying about the southern border like that's just not
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: people stay awake at night worrying that their kid is
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: gonna relapse or that you know someone's gonna drop out
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: of school or they're gonna lose their house like Those
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: are the things that not socialism. And I think that's
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: been the most frustrating thing about being actually in D.C.
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: is that we're like voting on the horrors of socialism.
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: And it's like that's not what matters to people. When
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: you talk about what really matters, you know, that that
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: is when that's that's when people listen.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: Why do you think Democrats don't often win districts like yours,
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: rural districts like working class districts, particularly white working class districts. What,
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: what's your assessment of where the party has gone wrong?
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: I think that a lot of these races, people have
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: been left to like self funders. And so I think
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: we're not, we're not, um, pulling from the sort of
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: median of the world. I think that's, that's a part
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: of it for sure. Um, So it's not just about
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: like having the right focus group and the right words.
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: There's not like a magic password to being relevant in
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: the trades and in rural communities. It is literally about like,
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: I get my internet from a radio tower. I get
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: my water from a well. I heat my house with wood.
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: And having candidates that reflect their communities and reflect the
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: experience of their communities. Because it changes how you think
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: about issues and it changes... what your priorities are. So
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: when you've got a wildfire next door, it's really relevant
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: to our timber policies. Like you mentioned, my husband and
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: I own an auto repair shop, work in the garage.
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: When it's 117 degrees outside, I can't work. I can't
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: pay my mortgage. And so Democrats often talk about climate
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: justice in these abstract terms that are not relevant. You
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: have to talk about the actual reality of people who
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: work in the trades can't make money. We can't function.
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: I'm going to get heat stroke working outside.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: There are Democrats who argue that most white working class
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: voters didn't vote for Donald Trump because of his populist grievances,
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: but because of his racial grievances. What do you think
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: about that?
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: Well, I, well, for one thing, I think that there's
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: a tendency to sort of be patronizing towards people that
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: work for a living and like explain their thoughts in
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: like a less than, you know, relevant ways. Um, I
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: also think that anger burns hot and Trump really, um,
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: utilize like anger and fear. Um, I don't know how
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: durable that is when you see like, okay, like being
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: angry doesn't fix things.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: And I, you know, and I also think that like
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: they have spent so much time talking about or like
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: problematizing and like highlighting issues that aren't really relevant to
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: making solutions that it's left open this, this huge gap.
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: So like I'm on ag, the ag committee and, I've
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: been holding a bunch of farm bill listening tours and
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: you know what farmers are talking about? They're talking about
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: antitrust issues because there's been insane consolidation in meatpacking and
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: transportation and marketing. They're talking about antitrust. I'm not hearing
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: Republicans pick that up and run with it. So there
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: are these places that we are not like Republicans are
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: not playing in that really, really, really matter to rural communities,
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: to people who work for a living and, and, They
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: matter to us. And so there is an opportunity if
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: we can listen to people respectfully and take their concerns seriously.
• 48:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: It's interesting hearing you say we need to run candidates
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: who look like the rest of America. I feel like
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: for the last decade or so, the Democratic Party has
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: done a great job putting forward candidates who look like
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: America in terms of race and gender.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: Diversity.
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: I do wonder if I've wondered if we have a
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: problem with class diversity as well.
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: I'm so fucking.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, and like we have a as as
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: the Democratic coalition becomes more college educated. I think the
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: college educated part of the coalition, it's more activist. You
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: have people who are engaged, who are participating. And those
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: are the people that you hear a lot. And that's great.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: But I do wonder if that leaves us open to,
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: you know, the charges that we're not we don't understand
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: how most people in this country live of all races.
• 49:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, and it is paramount that we have equity
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: in education systems. That is paramount. But also, how fucked
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: is it that we don't respect or listen to people
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: until they have a college degree? That's shame. And I
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: see that all the time. I go to these meetings
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: and people are like, They love, like, Democrats love to
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: do this rags to riches story of, like, I'm the
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: first person in my family to go to college. And, like,
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: my dad was a janitor. And, like, look at me now.
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: Here I am, you know, wearing, you know, Brooks Brothers and,
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: you know, like. And, like, you know what? Like, I
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: like your dad. I like that your dad worked for
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: a living. Like, I respect people that fix things and
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: keep the wheels on the bus. And. it is not
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: a reflection on anyone's intelligence, whether or not they have
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: a plaque on their wall saying they went to college.
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: Like there are so many ways to be smart. And
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: until we start valuing that and respecting that, like things
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: aren't going to get better. Yeah.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: Uh, what do you think of Congress so far?
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: I think that Congress has run so many staffer bros here.
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: So many said like, so funny.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Um, As a former staffer bro, I know that's true.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: It's fine. It's true.
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: It's wild. It's wild. It's kind of a badge of
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: honor that I get stopped by security that much and
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: have my wardrobe. The sergeant at arms is like, ma'am,
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: are you wearing jeans? So I think there's a lot
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: of opportunities. to make progress. I'm really encouraged that people
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: seem to want to listen to what I'm talking about.
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: Like that is, that is great news. Um, because like
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: I said, like I'm not super duper special. Like we can,
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: we can, we can do this. This can be like
• 51:50
  Speaker 4: a model and it's imperative that we're doing it that work.
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: You're a parent who's had to process the horrific shooting
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: in Nashville, just like every other parent in America. I
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: know that you're a gun owner who's also in favor
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: of common sense action to reduce gun violence. Why not
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: reinstate the assault weapons ban that has been proven to
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: have worked when it was in effect over 10 years?
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: I struggle with, like, why is it more important for
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: people to have access to to the ars 15s that
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: seem to be involved in every single mass shooting like
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: why why do people need that.
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: Well i mean i think that um yeah a and
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: this is like whatever not to like i have a
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: like yeah like you said like your chances of being
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: shot as a member of congress go through the roof
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: And there are very real credible threats that we get
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: like all the time. There's also a constitutional right to
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: bear arms. And I think that, you know, people that
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: want to have like, I think the deal is like,
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: go talk to your uncle, go talk to your brother-in-law,
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: like build a consensus that, like do the groundwork of
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: having community that believes in things and not expecting top-down legislation.
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: Those hard conversations, like the person-to-person conversations, I think is
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: where the work needs to happen. You know, but yeah,
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, absolutely. Like my kids going to public school,
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: like it's, it's, those are, you know, those are the
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: kinds of things that keep people up at night. And
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: they deserve serious attention and serious work.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: Do you support an assault weapons ban?
• 53:55
  Speaker 5: No.
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: No, I don't.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: Why not?
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: Because there's a constitutional right to it. And so, you know,
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: if we can build the national consensus that a constitutional,
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: you know, that's a different question than should Congress, who
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: by and large, by the way, is representing, like, there
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: are a lot of members from rural districts. There are
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: not that many members who actually live in the rural
• 54:21
  Speaker 4: parts of their rural districts. And so like it, like
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: it really, it is different living in places where the
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: sheriff is not going to be there for an hour.
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: There's not, there's never going to be that.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: I guess my question is, and again, I'm speaking as
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: someone who has not, I'm not a gun owner. I've
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: never fired a gun. I don't know a lot about
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: gun culture. So copping to that for sure. But, I
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: understand why some people might want a handgun for self-defense.
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: I understand why people are hunters. They go shooting, right?
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: But I don't understand the need for the AR-15, the
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: need for the weapons of war, that many rounds, right?
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Because you're right.
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: Even if the sheriff's not going to be there for
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: an hour, someone's going to be able to do a
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: lot more damage in a school with a semi-automatic rifle
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: than they are if they could only buy a handgun.
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, the, the, like, so my opponent Joe
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: Kent talks about, like, he is talking about civil war
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: all the time. And like, he is talking about, like,
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: he believes that like, if the military has the weapon,
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: the U S population should have it. So like tactical nukes, like,
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: you know, and it's, it's like, which by the way,
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: I don't think we should have tactical nukes, you know,
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: but like, It's in the Constitution, and it's something that
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: was not addressed. We have to have these conversations on
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: a person-to-person, neighbor-to-neighbor thing. I don't think the federal government
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: is the tool to address this.
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: So if you can have these conversations person-to-person... Get a
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: community to agree, then get like a state to agree
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: on an assault weapons ban. Like you're saying you sort
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: of start from there. You start at the local level
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: and work your way up.
• 56:21
  Speaker 4: I think that's right. I think that that is the
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: work of rebuilding. Like we don't want to have difficult
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: conversations with each other. We want to have a hammer,
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: you know, or a bludgeon. And like you have to
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: understand how differently different communities work. And that requires knowing
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: your neighbors, getting out from behind like a bumper sticker
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: and having like a real relationship and conversation. Like you
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: should be friends, like you should be friends with Republicans.
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: Like you should have those, like you should go drinking
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: with Republicans because otherwise like you're, that's part of the
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: problem is that we're not doing that.
• 57:05
  Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah.
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I think that, one thing that has
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: happened is as the country has become more geographically polarized,
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: especially that you just don't like all the Republicans that I,
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: I used to hang out with Republicans. They've all become
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: Democrats now.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: You know, I've lived in urban and suburban areas and
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: all the people used to be Bush voters. And now they're,
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: you know, now they're Biden voters.
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: Well, so I live in Skamania County, Washington, where 80%
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: of employed people are employed outside of the county. because
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: there are no jobs left in skimming. So it's like,
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: and that, frankly, that absolutely goes back to market consolidation.
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: Like we have got to have jobs in rural communities
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: so that a diversity of people can stay. And by
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: the way, that also goes back to having rural broadband.
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: Like if you don't have broad, like I believe I'm
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: the only member of Congress that broadband at home. And
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: that means that like so many people can't, So we're,
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: you know, we all get like funneled into one job
• 58:07
  Speaker 4: or one industry. And then when that industry goes belly up,
• 58:10
  Speaker 4: we're all hosed. You know, we're all. So there are
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: basic infrastructure issues that have to be addressed.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: And you're a district that I think voted for Obama. Right.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: And then.
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: Oh, no, no, no, no. My. Oh, no. My district. Oh, yeah.
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: For Obama. Yes.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then twice.
• 58:30
  Speaker 4: And then twice for Trump. Yes, absolutely.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: That's always I think that's it's fascinating to me. I
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: know it's fascinating to a lot of people that there
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: exist a lot of voters out there who cast a
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: ballot for Barack Obama and Donald Trump more than you
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: would think.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: Which goes to show like, you know, that like the.
• 58:49
  Speaker 4: Like arguments for hope are really, really powerful. But when
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: those arguments aren't backed up by substantive– like we have
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: to back up substantive issues. Like permitting reform, fucking critical.
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: Like at every level. Is that why.
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: You're supporting the um, the, the HR one, the house
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: Republican energy package. Is it mainly because of the permanent,
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: are you worried? How much, how worried are you about the, the,
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: you know, that it's going to require all these like
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: more lease sales for oil and gas?
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, so it's going to the Senate, which is
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: like the, the, the saving grace of this bill. And my,
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: my hope is that it goes to the Senate and
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: they pass back something that strips the partisan parts out
• 59:28
  Speaker 4: of it and, keeps the substantive things that we have
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: to have. Like there are so many renewable projects that
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: can't be hooked into the grid or do anyone any
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: good because they can't get the permits to make more
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: power lines. Like it's asinine. It's asinine. And like, and
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: on a broader, on a broader level, like I think
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: for a long time, the sort of group think for
• 59:54
  Speaker 4: Democrats has been democratic policy has been we are going
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: to advance green energy by making fossil fuels more expensive.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 4: And we can not advance green energy on a moral basis.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 4: It has to be on an economic basis because people
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: who work can't fucking pay. Like we're not buying Teslas
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 4: spoiler alert, like people that get pay stubs and look
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: at them, aren't buying a Tesla. And, and, So we
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: have got to win this by, frankly, advancing nuclear, small
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: nuclear reactors, not your grandmother's nuclear, like fusion, fission. We
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: have got to, like solar. So we've got to compete
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: on an economic basis, not off the backs of people
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: that are driving their 1990 Honda Civic.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: Well, and you have to get those people's consent to
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: pass legislation, which is something that we often forget about, too.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: You know, like you could be mad that they don't
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: want to support X or Y, but like you got
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: to convince people. What do you most want to get
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: done in these next two years?
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: That's a great question. I mean, one of the big
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: deals for me in running for Congress is right to
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: repair legislation. I think that is one of, that is
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 4: something that I can see. And that, so that's something
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: that touches everyone, not just people that fix cars for
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 4: a living, but like it's, you know, it's being able
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: to put a new battery in your iPhone. It is
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: being able to change a gasket or a battery out
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 4: in a home medical device. And it, it is absolutely
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: tied to environmental. Like we are filling up our landfills
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: with disposable consumer products and a generation, you know, like,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: 20 years ago, these things were all designed to be
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: repaired and maintained. And the big players here want us
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: to have disposable, you know, like disposable cars, disposable, you know,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: electronics so that we're on this constant cycle of buying
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 4: the newest thing because we can't fix the old thing.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 4: And I really believe like our cultural heritage as Americans is,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 4: is this like DIY belief of like, we can, we
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: can fix our own things. We understand the technology we
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: rely on. And so I, you know, I'm a, the
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: lead on the repair act is my, my, my big
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: act and also the smart act, which are more, you know,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: those are more automotive oriented, but it's, it's groundwork for
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: reaching into more of the things that touch our lives. And,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: and like the, like, I've never bought a new car
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: in my life. Like the middle class relies on a
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: secondary market on a used market for, um, so many
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: of the biggest purchases we make.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: And you know, for all the coastal libs who are listening,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: who don't understand, uh, the right, the right to repair idea. It's,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: it's just, You know, if my iPhone breaks, I can
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: go to the Apple store down at the.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: Grove a mile away and they'll fix it.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: I was reading you said somewhere that the nearest Apple
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: store is like three hours from where you live.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: And so if your phone breaks, what are you going
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: to do?
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you're going to take off from work and you're
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: going to go down there. These things can be done
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 4: at home. And basically at its core, it's an antitrust issue.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: That makes sense.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for for joining and and giving
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: us the perspective of, you know, probably most Americans and
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: most Democrats and a lot in a big chunk of
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: Democrats that doesn't often get heard. So we appreciate you coming.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: Congresswoman Marie Glusenkamp Perez. Good luck and and come back
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: again soon.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much. I'd love to.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: All right. Thanks to Congresswoman- Wait, wait.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: Wait, John.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 6: John.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 8: Before we go, can we have a quickie?
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: We can have a quickie, yes.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, is this another promo for Stift?
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 8: Is the phrase a quickie?
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: Here's a piece from Politico.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 6: Uh-oh.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: Oh.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 8: I'm just going to jump right into it.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: Uh-oh. Because it's quick. Giving this man a mic kit
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: was such a mistake. Just do one take today. Just
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: one take. All right, fine, whatever.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 8: From Politico, a piece titled, Why Glenn Youngkin Would Be
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 8: Crazy Not to Run for President.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: I know this one.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 8: Here's the subheader. The Virginia governor offers two things Republicans need,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 8: a non-hostile alternative to Trump and a compelling centrist challenge
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 8: to Biden.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: Have a quickie. I, uh, this, this was, is by, uh, Politico,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know what he calls himself now, John Harris,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: one of the first Politico people. Now he's just writing
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: columns every once in a while. I find him quite annoying.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: Always have. Some of it's personal, but it's okay.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: And this was excerpted in Playbook the other day, and
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: I immediately copy-pasted the paragraph and sent it to Tommy
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: and Dan Ben Rhodes and said, this guy sucks.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: So that was my take on this piece. And I
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: had no idea you were going to bring it up today.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: I just think it's so funny that there's a chance
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: you have either of us, but particularly Jon Favreau read
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: the Jon Harris Politico column. Of course, there's no way
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: to avoid it. Politico forces it into your brain via Playbook.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: But Elijah, the line that really got me was the
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: one that was excerpted in Playbook, which was something about like,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: do Republicans need someone who's just going to like embrace
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: Trump Or do they need someone who's going to focus
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: on the cultural excesses of the ideological left and win
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: that way? Just assuming that there are cultural excesses of
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: the left that Republicans can run again.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: Just assumes it.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 8: I enjoyed the end where he said a young and candidacy.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 8: The importance of a young king candidacy would be that
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 8: it would be an entertaining addition to the 2024 race.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: So that's important.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: It's entertaining.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: So I will say this. John Harris is a very,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: very smart guy. And I have talked to him and
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: worked with him many, many, many times over the years.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: I think the defining way to understand this column is
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: that when John Harris and Jim Vande Hei, who was
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: the other original Politico founder and now the founder.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: Of Axios- Also the founder of the Innovation Party.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: Just let's keep those 2017 hits coming. When John Harris
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: and Jim VandeHei were pitching the idea to investors for Politico,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: they described it as an ESPN for politics. And that
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: explains that last lesson. Now, that was a phenomenally, phenomenally
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: successful business endeavor. I think it is very debatable the
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: impact it's had on journalism and politics. Whether that has
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: been as positive, I would say no.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: Would you?
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: I would, and I have and will again. But that
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: is ESPN for politics. Let's do it because it'll be
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: entertaining to this entertainment thing that does not really affect
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: my life as a wealthy media baron.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 8: What does a non-hostile alternative to Trump mean?
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: It means he's wearing some sort of fleece vest. That's
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: what I interpreted it as. Yes.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Elijah.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: Thanks for riling us up one more time before the
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: end of the pod. Thanks also to Congresswoman Glusenkamp-Perez for
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: joining us. Don't forget to follow us at Crooked Media
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: on Instagram and TikTok before it's banned.
• 1:08:07
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• 1:08:09
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• 1:08:11
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• 1:08:12
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• 1:08:15
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• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: Everyone have a great weekend and we will talk to
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: you next week.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: Bye everyone.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein.
• 1:08:35
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• 1:08:38
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• 1:08:41
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