Latest / Gorls Unplugged / BookTok, Casting Backlash & the Off-Campus Controversy

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BookTok, Casting Backlash & the Off-Campus Controversy · Gorls Unplugged

0:00
So we weren't planning on filming this episode, but the
0:03
Internet and more importantly, Book Talk seems to literally be
0:07
losing their minds over the casting of Off Campus.
0:13
And I feel like this is something that this has kind of
0:17
been a point for me of something we've been discussing for a
0:20
while of book talk is almost becoming a less and less less
0:25
safe space for people. And the way people have reacted
0:30
to this, in my opinion, has been so foul that we decided we
0:36
needed to talk about this. Let's talk about it, get it on
0:39
air for people to discuss because I'm not happy about the
0:43
way that people are acting. No, I mean, my immediate
0:48
reaction to some of the videos on Book Talk were Kim, there's
0:53
people that are dying. I just think Kardashians moment.
0:59
Yeah, come on guys, let's get it together.
1:05
But there's just so much entitlement I feel.
1:10
So for those of you that don't know and are fresh into this
1:13
episode and haven't seen it, maybe you've been on holiday and
1:16
avoiding TikTok. This week Amazon Prime have
1:20
announced who they have casted for Off Campus which was written
1:24
by Elle Kennedy. It's a college hockey romance
1:28
series. I personally am really excited
1:31
for the show, but they've done the casting and people are up in
1:36
arms about who they have casted to play these characters and
1:42
they're not just up in arms about it.
1:44
They are being quite vile. I have seen videos of people
1:50
calling the characters ugly, that it's the worst casting
1:55
they've ever seen. People in Hollywood don't know
1:58
what they're doing. And I'm, I'm, I am, I'm
2:03
completely dumbfounded by it. And I'm so surprised at the way
2:08
that fans of this series and people that have come into the
2:11
book talk community can behave like this and think it's OK.
2:16
So obviously I've taken some strong opinions to this.
2:20
I normally really stay out of any book talk drama because I'm
2:24
not about that life. However, I have a really strong
2:28
feelings on bullying and seeing some of the behaviours I
2:32
instantly like went on to my platform and started talking
2:35
about it. But we haven't really spoken
2:37
this week actually specifically too much about the casting.
2:40
So what was your immediate thoughts on the casting when you
2:44
saw it? So my immediate thoughts were
2:47
just that, Oh my gosh, we finally got a cast.
2:50
Like, I was just excited about the news of having a cast for
2:54
this, you know, adaptation that we've been waiting a while for.
2:57
And for those that don't know, me and Tor both absolutely love
3:01
L Kennedy books. Like, I literally have a shelf
3:03
up here and it is start to finish.
3:05
L Kennedy. Like, so we were excited.
3:09
When I looked at the pictures a bit closer, I was a bit
3:11
confused. I couldn't really tell who was
3:14
supposed to be who. And it wasn't what I imagined,
3:17
I'll be honest. But I sent the link to our book
3:22
club group chat and I was just like, oh, this is a surprising
3:26
choice. And then that was the end of it,
3:28
really. I feel like, you know, And I
3:31
looked at it a bit more and I saw that the guy that they cast
3:35
for Garrett was, I can't remember his name, Belmont
3:38
somebody. I was like, oh, actually I'm
3:42
really excited about that because I've seen him in Along
3:44
for the Ride on Netflix, which is also a book adaptation that
3:48
he was not really how I imagined him in that, but he was so good
3:52
that I ended up enjoying it. And I said, I'm sure that will
3:54
happen with off campus as well. So my initial reactions were
3:58
also a tiny bit surprise and disappointment like other
4:01
people. But I got over it very quickly
4:04
because I did some research and, you know, then that was that.
4:09
And did it, Do you feel like it surprised you, like people's
4:12
reactions online, how intense they were?
4:16
Nothing surprises me anymore with casting.
4:19
Absolutely nothing. I knew.
4:21
I knew because as soon as I had seen the Instagram post, even
4:25
though I saw it within 20 minutes of it being posted
4:28
already. The comments on Elle Kennedy
4:32
like her actual collaboration pose with Prime already was so
4:36
disrespectful. So I I honestly have like 0
4:42
expectations for casting announcements anymore.
4:44
Nobody is. Ever.
4:45
Happy. Yeah, I am the first thing I saw
4:50
about it because I I mean, you know what I'm like with the
4:52
group chat? Like sometimes if it's like 100
4:54
messages and I'm having a crazy afternoon with the kids, I just
4:57
skip past it. But I didn't, I don't remember
4:59
seeing anything about the casting.
5:02
The first thing that I saw was a video I sat outside Zoda's score
5:07
about to pick her up and it was a big creator slamming,
5:16
absolutely slamming it. And she put her put like a
5:19
screen grab up and green screened herself talking about
5:21
it. So it was a quick flash, but I
5:24
was like, I wasn't I wasn't surprised you don't.
5:28
I personally don't expect castings to be hit the nail on
5:31
the head exactly. The description in the book is
5:34
going to be the exact description like on screen.
5:38
It's just unrealistic to expect that you're going to be able to
5:41
fit to every mould. And reading through the
5:44
comments, like I said earlier, was just, it was foul.
5:47
The language that was being used, the sense of entitlement
5:50
to have characters exactly how you imagine them.
5:54
And I'm sorry, but if you can sit there even as a bunch of
5:58
friends, you're bat shit crazy if you think you're going to be
6:01
able to get the casting right because we all imagine
6:03
characters so differently. Like you live in La La lands.
6:08
I mean realistically when they're described in the books,
6:13
we have a hair colour, an eye colour and an age.
6:18
That's probably, there's not probably too much more to it
6:21
than that. There's no detail on facial
6:23
features. You know, you might get an eye
6:25
colour. Skin colour we know with Al
6:29
Kennedy tends to be 1 skin colour.
6:32
And that also leads to another point is that she said from the
6:36
beginning with this casting that they are going to be making it
6:39
more diverse. So if you were a fan of her, so
6:43
much so that you had a strong reaction to the casting, surely
6:47
you would know that information or you would have taken the time
6:50
to research. Yeah, and it and it and it
6:53
baffles me because on one hand, book talk in general, you know,
6:58
screaming out for more diversity.
7:01
And I would put money on how many of those people that are
7:05
screaming about the casting look back through their feeds and
7:08
that they'll be like, what to read if you're looking for more
7:11
diversity. And yet they're up in arms
7:14
because every single character is not exactly how it's
7:17
described in the book. And let's face it, you, like you
7:22
said, you get hair colour and eye colour, a skin colour, but
7:28
you, from the personality of what, what and who you're
7:32
reading, you build out this kind of perfect person in your mind
7:38
like you're not, you're never going to get that.
7:41
Yeah, it's just unrealistic as well.
7:43
And like people's fan casts sometimes, a lot of the time are
7:48
pictures they have pulled from Pinterest.
7:51
Like do you even know if this person acts?
7:56
Exists. You could.
7:57
Be a person with a good camera, yeah.
8:00
I mean, do you know how good that acting is?
8:02
Do you like the the people? That is the person that's often
8:05
fan casted as Tucker is literally about 34.
8:09
Like you want him to play a college character and then now.
8:14
Who's the character that plays that woman that she's in Bridget
8:19
Jones, but she's also the the ghost girl in Harry Potter?
8:23
Oh yeah, the one that's. She's like 50.
8:27
But yes, I do. I do get, I absolutely get your
8:30
point. Like realistically, it's not
8:33
easy to cast someone that's much older.
8:35
And most people that are reading this, this is this is new adult
8:40
fiction off campus. It's new adult.
8:42
We're talking about college aged people.
8:45
Most of the say most the demographic of people reading
8:50
it, they're aged like 16 up to like their 40s and 50s.
8:55
Yeah, so everyone's going to imagine something different
8:57
anyway. But also like the guy that they
9:00
have cast for Garrett is I think 27 or 28 and the girl that's
9:05
playing Hannah is 18. And they that people are kind of
9:09
up in arms about that as well because of the age difference
9:11
between them. So you really can't win because
9:14
they had cast someone older, the people that they actually wanted
9:18
to play, the off campus characters, then that would have
9:22
just been happening in tenfold. So yeah, which which do you
9:25
want? Make your mind up.
9:28
And that's the thing, you're never going to make everyone
9:30
happy. Never.
9:32
Absolutely never. And that's why I really wasn't
9:36
surprised because this has been happening for as long as I can
9:40
remember. Like this has been happening
9:42
since I was a teenager and all my favorite books were being
9:45
adapted onto screen. Yeah.
9:48
At the end of the day, a good film or a good TV show is a good
9:52
film or a good TV show. It doesn't matter who is playing
9:55
them, but it's either good or it's not.
9:57
It could be the best looking people in the world fit the
10:01
characters perfectly to AT, but it could still be terrible.
10:06
So on that, have you ever like book to screen adaptations like
10:10
you? I have a couple of I have one
10:13
specific example of this, but you read a lot of books and love
10:18
to watch TV and film. So do you have anywhere it's
10:21
either been like perfect on the nose that but the acting's been
10:25
terrible or it's been completely different and you love them.
10:28
Like, let's talk about it because I feel like people
10:30
aren't thinking about that, that this has happened before and
10:34
we've loved it. Yeah, my perfect example of a
10:38
casting that I did not initially like was when I saw the Twilight
10:43
cast. And people our age who can
10:47
remember that time might remember that there was
10:50
literally a petition to get Robert no longer cast as Edward
10:55
because people wouldn't. Remember that.
10:57
Yeah, people were not happy. And people also were not as
11:00
happy with Kristen, but less so than Edward, because obviously
11:04
he's meant to be the same perfect man.
11:07
People were not happy with Rosalie.
11:09
People were happy with Alice until they saw her in the film
11:13
and then they said she was too tall.
11:15
So that one was a really, really big 1.
11:18
And I also was not at the start not thrilled with Robert
11:23
Pattinson being cast as Edward because he just looked nothing
11:26
like I imagined. And I had seen Harry Potter and
11:30
didn't even really like him as Cedric that much.
11:32
Like he was fine, but I didn't fancy him.
11:35
So I was also not happy. I did not sign the petition even
11:40
back then, I would like to add. But this is where expectations
11:46
come in, I think because from the beginning Stephanie Meyer
11:50
had said that her dream Edward was Henry Cavill, who at the
11:55
time. Was sorry what?
11:56
Yeah, at the time, Henry Cavill was in the TV show The Tudors,
12:02
and he looks quite different to how he looks now.
12:06
But by the time they made the films, he was way too old.
12:09
And I was about to say. Because when I think about like,
12:13
Robert Pattinson, like Henry Cavill now, I feel like he's
12:16
much older than Robert Pattinson, no.
12:18
Yeah, I think he's probably about 7-8 years older than him.
12:22
I think he's early 40s. Isn't he in Rob's late 30s or
12:24
something? So yeah, that was like
12:30
expectations, you know, were off the wall.
12:33
People wanted this perfect man who was already well established
12:37
and, like, was playing a very charming character in a huge
12:40
show already. And then they got Rob, who at
12:43
the time hadn't worked in something as mainstream as Harry
12:47
Potter for a good few years. So he didn't really have like an
12:50
established audience. But.
12:52
When I saw it, as, you know, I loved it.
12:56
Like I, I, I mean, obviously those films are objectively
13:01
terrible, but I loved them at the time.
13:05
Yeah. The cast meant nothing to me as
13:08
I was watching it. You know, even Rosalie, who
13:10
really doesn't look like how she's described in the books,
13:14
loved her. And.
13:15
And that was where, like, they put diversity, albeit the
13:21
smallest amount in the film because Stephanie Meyer had only
13:24
written all white characters, but they made Laurent black and,
13:28
you know, stuff like. That.
13:32
And I just think you, do you even think about that while
13:35
you're watching it? I, I personally never do.
13:37
I get so into the story that I am just either enjoying it or
13:42
not enjoying it. But rarely am I thinking about
13:45
how they physically look. Yeah, yeah, 100%.
13:49
And I think, I think a really good example of this, let's take
13:53
one of, I would say the most loved TV series by the book
14:00
world, The Vampire Diaries. OK, A lot of people have never
14:03
read the books. I've read them years ago.
14:06
I've read them. Too, but hadn't been so
14:08
infatuated with them that when I started and it had been years
14:11
since I'd read them before. Watch watching the show, yeah.
14:15
If. If the book talk books to Graham
14:20
social media world is was as it is now, then people would have
14:25
hit the roof about the casting. They not only did they change
14:30
the casting, they dramatically changed the storylines, plot
14:35
points. Some things were similar.
14:38
Klaus was completely different, Elena completely different.
14:43
She was blonde like. Elena was more like Caroline in
14:47
the books and Bonnie was redhead.
14:50
Right. Yeah, I think so.
14:52
Yeah, and then I swear like in the books fairly soon, like
14:57
maybe like book two or three, Caroline and Tyler have wolf
15:00
puppies. They get pregnant.
15:03
Like it's so different this. Is what I mean.
15:05
Like if people had done what they've done over off campus, it
15:10
would have complete it could have completely tainted what the
15:14
TV show was and is till this day.
15:17
Yeah, I probably scrolling through Booktop.
15:20
I probably see at least one or two Vampire Diaries videos a day
15:25
on my For you page still. And the show finished fucking
15:28
years ago. And that, that's what frustrates
15:31
me because I'm like, you're not thinking about this.
15:34
These yes, we get TV shows that we don't like.
15:36
They're not good. You're not even giving it a
15:39
chance before you hit the roof. I also just don't think people
15:44
research and don't actually know how casting works.
15:47
They're all saying like, you know, Hollywood's terrible at
15:50
casting. Also, first, the entitlement
15:53
behind that statement is so jarring because these are people
15:57
that have worked in this career. It's not easy to get into
16:00
Hollywood. Like yeah, you know, please do
16:03
not discredit their hard work. But also people, one of the
16:08
things that really irritates me the most is when people are
16:11
like, he's not tall enough, he's not 6 foot three, he's not 6
16:15
foot four. First of all, less than 1% of
16:18
the population is like 6 foot 5 statistically.
16:23
Secondly, if you knew anything about casting you would know
16:27
that they tend not to cast men who are over 6 foot because it
16:32
then means there is a huge difference between them and
16:35
their female counterpart when they are framing the scene.
16:38
If you So Euphoria is a great example of this because Jacob
16:43
Elledy had to lie about his height to get the role of Nate
16:47
Jacobs. He is 6 foot 4IN real life and
16:50
he had to tell them he was 6461. Sorry, because he's too tall to
16:55
play and it's really evident. There's a scene when him and
16:58
Maddie are walking through the corridor and she is about my
17:03
height, I think maybe a little bit smaller and he's.
17:05
Obviously is this like the famous scene that was all over
17:07
book talk means for ages where he's.
17:09
Probably. Probably, and the difference
17:13
between their height is crazy and it's like you never see that
17:17
on screen. I can't think of another example
17:19
where you have. A.
17:20
Really tall guy and a really short girl.
17:23
And that's why because it's difficult to frame.
17:25
So if people research they would know you're never going to get
17:28
your 6 foot 6 fae love interest in a film You.
17:32
It's just not going to happen, sorry.
17:34
And it's interesting because you have such a unique perspective
17:37
on this, in my opinion, because you love films and actually like
17:41
the intricacies of like film making and TV shows, like you
17:44
analyse them. I think we spoke about this in
17:46
our earlier episodes. And you have close people in
17:48
your life that are within the industry as well.
17:51
So it gives you a unique perspective onto like the behind
17:55
the scenes of like how it actually works and what happens.
17:58
Yeah, exactly. And, and that's why it's just
18:01
like, I wish, I wish so badly that most of all in these
18:05
situations, people would research before they comment.
18:09
People would actually take the time to go away.
18:13
And in this case, look at the cast, look at them in other
18:16
things before forming an opinion.
18:18
Because do you know how many videos I've seen in the last
18:20
couple of days where people have put clips together of the actors
18:24
in other things where they've got different hair colours and
18:27
they've been styled differently? Oh, actually, he looks really
18:30
hot here. Oh, actually, he's been blonde
18:32
in this before. I think people are backtracking
18:36
because they are seeing the the negative response to their
18:43
negative behaviour. And I think people are thinking
18:47
and this is what I think is so frustrating moving away from off
18:52
campus and and more general generalistic of book talk.
18:56
And I see it less on bookstagram.
18:59
It seems to be like a much more like because it's more like the
19:01
aesthetics and stuff, isn't it? But but top people are
19:04
opinionated. And I do feel we've had this
19:07
conversation recently. There is this rising sense of
19:10
negativity in the book talk world and these real, this mean
19:14
girl energy, mean girl cliques of people.
19:19
And I really hate it because I feel like it's so different to
19:22
where we came in like what, 3, three years ago now?
19:24
Is that really how long it's been?
19:26
And I know even when we came in, like people that had already
19:29
been on like, you know, really original kind of people that had
19:32
been on there for a couple of years already was, you know, it
19:35
feels different already. But now it's complete.
19:40
It's completely different. The energy feels different, the
19:42
types of people feel different, and you can really see it.
19:47
Yeah, I mean, I think the great thing about book talk is that it
19:51
has made books bigger than they ever were before.
19:54
You know, when I was a teenager, I had one friend who liked
19:58
reading as much as I did, and she still reads now, so shout
20:01
out her. But it's just like now it is
20:06
reached so far into other areas of the Internet that we have all
20:12
different types of people at all different points coming in with
20:16
very strong opinions. And they may be.
20:19
Don't take the time to get to know the community and really,
20:23
really think about what they want to put out into this space.
20:27
And that kind of ties in with something else as well, which is
20:31
I really think, like, in general, whether it's book talk
20:35
or just across the whole Internet, people do not think
20:38
about the digital footprint they are leaving behind.
20:42
Yeah, you know. That's a good point.
20:44
You are under 25 and you are commenting horrendous vile
20:50
comments on fancast or anything calling people ugly, saying they
20:54
look 40. That is a really bad digital
20:58
footprint to leave behind. Employers could see that.
21:02
Like it could even just put people off you that you know in
21:05
your real life if they see you acting like this.
21:08
Like 100% people do not think about their digital footprint
21:14
and take it seriously. I don't.
21:17
Think I completely agree because even years ago when you know,
21:21
TikTok wasn't even around Instagram was that Facebook was
21:27
probably like the most like prominent and you know, I work
21:30
in HR. I've seen people's careers be
21:33
flattened by these types of comments.
21:37
You know, you go to conferences and you hear companies come in
21:41
and talk about social media when it was on the rise and how their
21:47
employees should be using it properly.
21:49
Companies look at it. Yeah.
21:51
And people lose their jobs over things that they say, even if it
21:54
is meant in jerseys, in personal time.
21:59
You know, I've seen some, I've seen some wild things that I
22:01
feel like, oh, I feel so bad for that person that they lost their
22:03
job over that. I can imagine me saying that in
22:06
a WhatsApp chat to my friends. Yeah, not online where everybody
22:11
can see it. And we'll always be able to see
22:15
it. Even if you go back and delete
22:16
your comments. How many people, like that's for
22:20
instance, that video that I was speaking about earlier,
22:25
thousands of people have commented on that.
22:27
How many people have already saved that video onto their own
22:30
devices to send it to someone else?
22:33
So even if you go in and realise I've made a real Boo Boo here, I
22:36
need to go and delete my comment, it can still be found.
22:39
Other people are re uploading it.
22:42
Yeah, it's the ones that get so much attention.
22:45
Yeah, and like, you know, people green screen record rather than
22:48
stitch, like there's so many variables that mean it's not as
22:52
simple as just deleting something.
22:55
And also, you know, realistically, how long do you
22:58
think you're going to be able to be a content creator?
23:01
Do you think if even if you, I don't care how many followers
23:04
you have, you could have a million?
23:06
Do you think if you're a 25 year old talking about books right
23:09
now that when you're 57 you're still going to be doing this
23:12
full time? Probably not.
23:14
The chances are. So some point you are going to,
23:17
if you're a full time creator, you're going to have to enter
23:20
the workforce again. Like just think about it before
23:26
you commit to stuff like that. Obviously.
23:28
I mean, I feel like I have a, a unique perspective on this as
23:32
well because I did do a video once that was quite critical in
23:37
tone, I would say. And it got a lot of traction.
23:42
Like I'm talking 900,000 views and that's.
23:45
Crazy. The vast majority, like 90% of
23:48
the comments were people heavily disagreeing with me, calling me
23:52
names, you know, like anything. And it was because I negatively
23:57
reviewed a book quite harshly. Now, when I did that video, I
24:01
did use click bait techniques of like starting the video, holding
24:05
the book and kind of like looking at it in disgust.
24:08
Yeah, that was on me. Like I knew what I was doing and
24:12
it was I got those views. But for me, that wasn't worth it
24:18
and I've never done it again since because although it got me
24:22
views and engagement and whatever, I did not like the
24:25
negativity that it put out into the universe.
24:28
So I answered the video and I never did that kind of click
24:32
bait video again. But there are so many big
24:36
creators on Book Talk who know exactly, exactly what they are
24:40
doing when they make these negative videos.
24:44
They know what they're doing. They are using very strategic
24:47
techniques. So do not also believe that
24:51
these people are just oh, I, I didn't mean it like that.
24:53
No, you. Did so at least.
24:57
Yeah, I completely agree. And moving on to that subject,
25:01
because I, I feel like it's, it's a really important one,
25:07
these creators with these huge followings encouraging this type
25:14
of behaviour. That's what that's what stresses
25:17
me out because I think creators like that, whether it's in the
25:22
whether it's in the book top world, the makeup world, the
25:24
hair world, whatever mum top, whatever it might be, you are
25:30
influencing many people and not just many people really young,
25:36
malleable, easily influenced minds.
25:41
You are helping breed the hate in teenagers that leads to kids
25:50
so young being clinically depressed and unfortunately
25:54
making, you know, very awful decisions about their lives.
26:00
And I just think, God, how? And I'm going to get upset
26:04
because I just think as a mum, you're hurting my kids, you're
26:09
hurting kids around you. Like, how can you?
26:13
How can you think that's OK? Yeah, but I think they don't
26:17
even see it like that. They don't even think about the
26:19
repercussions of what they're doing.
26:21
They don't think outside of trying to get likes and
26:24
comments. That is their goal, getting
26:27
books, getting likes, getting comments, getting followers.
26:29
That is all they care about. And unfortunately, I feel like
26:33
it's so accessible now for anyone to do content creation
26:39
that there are more and more like mean people doing it.
26:44
You know, back in the day when you were just watching
26:45
Youtubers, it wasn't so easy to just pick up a camera and film
26:50
your thoughts and reviews. You know, not many people did it
26:53
because, yeah, technology hadn't kind of advanced enough yet, but
26:58
now anyone can do it. It just means there are so many
27:02
different types of people who don't really have any respect
27:06
for critiquing, for reviewing as kind of like an art form almost.
27:12
I mean, you know, like that's there's so many people that
27:15
don't even review books. They just say this was crap or
27:21
this was great, you know? The.
27:23
Yeah, Landscape specifically really needs to like change.
27:30
Just because it's short form content doesn't mean you can't
27:32
use critical thinking, doesn't mean you can't actually create
27:38
meaningful content. Yeah, that is impactful and
27:41
positive, and you can be impactful and positive but still
27:44
give a negative opinion. Like the two don't have to be
27:48
mutually exclusive. I still do wrap ups and things
27:50
where I talk about, you know, books that I didn't like.
27:54
You made a really good point there about people don't think
27:59
about it. Which?
28:00
Which I do get, but because do you think that people sometimes
28:05
forget the influence they have? And what's the line, in my
28:10
opinion, between forgetting and just being completely
28:16
irresponsible with what they say and share?
28:21
I don't think people forget because if you we're obviously
28:24
both content creators with a very kind of small audience, you
28:28
know, under 50,000 and but. When we say it like that,
28:35
actually, because I feel like I do forget because collectively
28:40
between us, we have over 50,000 followers.
28:44
Yeah, put 50,000 people in front of you.
28:47
And I don't, I don't by any means think of myself as an
28:50
influencer at all. I don't.
28:53
I think of myself as a content creator.
28:55
Yes, I'd like to earn extra income from what I do, but I
28:59
also find it fun and it's a hobby for me that makes me happy
29:03
outside of my job and my kids. But when you think about the
29:06
fact that if you put 50,000 people in front of us, that, you
29:11
know, and even without that, a video that pops off to nearly
29:15
1,000,000 people because of the platform that you have built for
29:19
yourself, Yeah. You know, that's so much
29:25
responsibility that we should be thinking about all the time when
29:28
we're posting content, in my opinion.
29:31
Yeah. So I guess maybe then I would
29:32
alter my answer. And I don't think you forget if
29:36
you already have a big audience. If you have.
29:41
I don't know, let's say 500,000 followers, 100,000 followers,
29:47
tons of YouTube subscribers. I don't think you are forgetting
29:52
how many people are going to see your videos because I would be
29:55
terrified every time I uploaded something that there was a
29:58
mistake left in there. Yeah.
30:00
So you would be thinking about how many people are going to see
30:03
your content for us with a smaller audience.
30:07
And obviously that full audience as well does not engage with
30:10
every post at all. It's like 10%.
30:14
So if that Sundays. Yeah.
30:18
Well, I saw a post today that actually fits in really well.
30:21
This it said 250 views is a sold out movie screen. 1000 views,
30:27
you know is a conference hall and so on so forth. 20,000 is
30:32
the O2 Arena like. That's crazy, isn't it?
30:36
Yeah, to put it into context, it is still a big number of people
30:41
taking your opinions on board. No matter, like even if you have
30:45
those 300 views, that's still 300 people that could be
30:49
influenced and then go off and influence their friends and
30:52
family themselves. So it is a huge responsibility.
30:56
I feel like I've understood that more in the last two years.
31:01
Feel like the first year that I was on book talk, I probably did
31:03
not take it very seriously because I was just getting
31:06
started and I was just having fun.
31:08
The last two years specifically in my case, since like October
31:13
23, I've then understood the magnitude of what I put out
31:18
there and the influence that has and the kinds of influence I
31:22
want to have, but I don't know that everyone thinks about it
31:27
like that. I I don't think that everyone
31:30
does and they should. And I do understand that
31:35
sometimes speaking about controversial topics can be
31:40
super scary. I myself get really worried that
31:45
I'm going to say the wrong thing, whether it's about
31:48
sexuality, whether it's about race, whether it's about war.
31:52
I get so in my own head that I'm going to say the wrong thing
31:57
that I choose not to talk about it because I'm so freaked out
32:01
about the backlash because I and, and that's another point,
32:05
right? You get fearful of it because of
32:08
book top cancellation. The cancel culture over the last
32:13
18 to 24 months I would say has been so insane and infuriates me
32:18
no end that I've watched lovely creators authors get cancelled
32:26
and really like lose steam so quickly over one person making a
32:30
video. And yet creators like this that
32:34
are consistently saying nasty, hurtful, influential things to
32:41
their followings, people just just continue to follow them.
32:46
And I'm like, how? How have we ended up in this
32:49
space where Nast It's like being in a highly dramatized American
32:54
TV show in a fucking high school, like the Mean Girls,
32:59
like everyone every because everyone wants to be their
33:02
friend. No, mate, they're never going to
33:03
be your friend. Even if they're nice to you, if
33:05
they saw you walking down the street, they are going to
33:08
fucking blank you. And I would much rather I have a
33:11
small 30K following with a small like small to largest.
33:16
Would I call it a small group? I feel like I know so many
33:20
things about so many of my mutuals like and I constantly
33:25
make friends. Yes, I'm not best friends with
33:27
everybody who interacts with my content that people, but people
33:32
that consistently have I've built friendships with.
33:35
Let's take Gem for instance. She's been interacting with my
33:38
content for the longest time. Slowly and progressively we've
33:42
built a friendship. And I finally got to meet her
33:44
the other week and I was like, you are a fucking babe like.
33:47
She's. So lovely, so nice to be around
33:51
warm. And I think that's how it
33:53
naturally happens. But if anyone, if I met anyone
33:56
at an event and they were like, oh, I love your content, like
33:59
I've been following you for all, I would always be so nice.
34:03
Like try and have a conversation with them.
34:05
Like I'm super fucking awkward. Let's face it, I'm not very good
34:07
at small talk, but it would always be nice to anyone.
34:11
And some of these creators we know, what I know through the
34:16
last couple of weeks, have actually been called out
34:19
recently for their mean girl behaviour.
34:23
Yeah, I mean, it's just very clicky.
34:25
And you know as well that even though they seem like the cute
34:27
little friendship group, they're just using each other for views.
34:31
So there's that too. It's so clear when people do
34:35
that. All the state of state fronting.
34:37
Listen, you know what I mean, I've got a big mouth.
34:41
But no, I completely agree. Like book talk for us has
34:46
always, I think, been about community.
34:49
Like that is something that me and you really focus on both of
34:54
us. I personally try to reply to
34:56
every comment I get. I I know people that like my
35:01
videos who have never commented, like I know their usernames.
35:04
I look out for them, but there's people that do comment that I
35:07
look forward to their comments, you know, like book club people
35:12
that when they first started liking our content, you know,
35:16
they didn't have their own accounts, but now they have like
35:18
books to grams and I love seeing their content and their
35:22
recommendations. Like I view it as community not
35:26
following me per SE. Like I I respect them and look
35:32
forward to what they have to say as much as they probably look
35:35
forward to our reviews or recommendations.
35:39
So I just think it all comes down to who you follow and how
35:44
you choose to diversify your FYP.
35:46
And you know, there's, there's bad, there's like a negative
35:52
perception of, of book talkers who have a large following but
35:55
don't follow many people. But actually, that probably
35:59
means they have curated their FYP.
36:01
Like I, I have done this. I have gone through who I was
36:04
following and called it right down to people I trust who I
36:09
know are good people, who share good recommendations, who are
36:13
not filled with negativity and drama and who value the same
36:17
things that I do. And I think that's what's
36:20
important is finding those people to follow because they
36:22
are, they are out there. There's loads of creators that
36:24
are absolutely amazing. Yeah, absolutely.
36:28
And if anybody needs a list of good, nice, lovely, genuinely
36:32
loving creators, then we can give that to you.
36:34
Let us know. I'm sure that we could create a
36:36
little mini series on TikTok or something about like creators
36:40
that we absolutely love. Whether they've got 500
36:43
followers or 500,000 followers, there are plenty of them out
36:46
there that are just like the nicest fucking people.
36:48
Like genuinely would be like they're so lovely to spend time
36:53
around or talk to. But I also I, I do want to point
37:00
out as well that creators do have a responsibility to be more
37:07
mindful about what they post on their foot platforms.
37:10
But I do think it's an important to point out that.
37:14
If even if. You're a small creator, large
37:16
creator, or whether you don't post yourself and you just are a
37:20
consumer of content, you have your own responsibility to.
37:26
You don't have to call out, you don't have to comment or, you
37:29
know, stir the pot, but you do have a responsibility to if you
37:36
are seeing bad behaviour, negative behaviour that really
37:39
doesn't sit right with you, unfollow them because you guys,
37:44
everybody, us that are consuming the content, we're giving them
37:49
the platform. After I posted my video there,
37:51
really regretted stitching the video, but I'd literally just
37:54
seen it and I was so angry. I just, I just did it, but I
37:59
just gave that creator even more of a platform.
38:02
You know, the 2 or 3000 people that have, you know, gone and
38:06
watched my video have inevitably clicked on her video, watched
38:09
it, added to, you know, the conversation that she is, is
38:15
creating. And a lot of people that have
38:17
commented on my video that completely agree with my stance
38:20
on it have actually then gone on to her post and they're like,
38:23
this is, you know, disgusting behaviour.
38:25
Why are you being like this? But again, even by doing that,
38:28
we're just, we're just adding to their engagement and filling up
38:32
their pockets with money. Realistically, that's what's
38:34
happening. Yeah, and they don't care
38:36
because they she hasn't responded to your video.
38:39
She hasn't responded to any of those comments, you know.
38:42
And which is just proof in my mind that creators like that
38:45
just don't care. Not that I want an argument.
38:47
I didn't do that to cause an argument with another creator.
38:49
That's absolutely not my vibe. Go through my feed people.
38:53
I don't do this very often. But that to me that's just proof
38:56
that she hasn't done another video to say I'm sorry about
39:01
what I've said. I haven't done the right thing
39:04
here. Yeah, and I think accountability
39:07
is a big part of it. Like you do have to reflect on
39:10
what people are saying to you online.
39:12
Like, you know, when I did the Powerless review, there was
39:16
probably like, there was a lot of people who actually agreed
39:19
with me and said like, actually, no, you're not saying anything
39:21
wrong here because you've not attacked the author.
39:23
You've just said your opinion of the book.
39:25
But even then after you didn't. Tag.
39:28
You didn't tag the publisher. You didn't tag the author.
39:30
You weren't calling her outgoing your book.
39:34
Do you know what I mean? I just said why I didn't like it
39:39
so much, but because I had really not liked it, my opinions
39:42
were quite strong. But even after that I was like
39:44
OK, this upset a lot of people so I need to think about how I
39:49
frame my negative reviews in the future, which I have never made
39:54
a video like that since. Whether you agree or disagree on
39:58
whether the video even was, you know, bad.
40:01
I still was like, well, I don't want to put that negativity into
40:04
the world. Yeah.
40:06
So I stopped. Yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree
40:09
more. I think it's it's we can all
40:12
have opinions. It's the way that we frame
40:15
thing. Like I make spoof videos.
40:17
I did one the other day because I've been reading the third book
40:20
in that series. I'm not really enjoying it.
40:23
And I did a voice over being like, like what am I?
40:26
Why am I putting myself through this?
40:28
But that that is part and parcel of being in any community, like
40:33
people are going to have different opinions.
40:36
There is a line for me between that and negative nasty bullying
40:43
type of behaviour. Yeah, 100%.
40:47
It's definitely, there is definitely a line and I don't
40:50
think people always know where that line is.
40:54
And that's how we end up in these situations.
40:56
And people egg each other on as well, you know, like replying to
41:00
each other's comments and just getting more and more angry.
41:03
And it's just icky to see Icky behaviour.
41:08
Icky behaviour. We don't want to see it.
41:11
No. And I'll just reiterate one more
41:13
time, Kim, there's people that are dying.
41:16
OK, Focus on the bigger picture. You can be upset about your fan
41:23
cast, but there is literally people dying.
41:27
So is it that deep? I'm afraid not.
41:31
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
41:33
So. With like, with all of these
41:35
things in mind, what do we think a healthier book talk like?
41:40
How do we think that looks? How should people be behaving in
41:43
your opinion? Well, I think people should be
41:46
reserving their negative energy for things that actually need
41:50
negative energy. For example, I saw a post
41:52
yesterday about a publisher really harming one of their
41:56
authors and in quite a problematic way.
41:59
That is the kind of thing where we could really use people's
42:03
negative energy to turn into something positive and create
42:07
awareness about these kinds of situations.
42:10
Or using, you know, your platform to share diverse
42:14
recommendations and create in depth analysis of the books you
42:21
have read. Whether that is positive or
42:23
negative, but doing it in a very healthy way and really
42:27
understanding what it means to be a reviewer in that space.
42:31
I think that is one thing. The second thing is honestly
42:34
just keeping your negative opinions on people's looks or
42:39
personal characteristics that they cannot change to yourself.
42:44
Do not put them on the Internet. That to me is a kind of two
42:48
prong approach. 1 needs to be people really thinking more
42:53
critically about what they consume, how they consume, and
42:55
how they review it. And the other just needs to be
42:57
people generally being nicer and more respectful.
43:00
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I actually, I actually think
43:04
that publishers have a really important responsibility to be
43:12
looking into the creators that they are are working with
43:15
because they have most, most of these publishers have small
43:21
teams of people that manage like their marketing and their PR and
43:24
who they're sending books out to.
43:26
They're normally pretty embedded in the community.
43:29
They know creators, what they're posting about, what they're
43:32
doing. They have responsibility.
43:35
They're sending free books to people and getting paying people
43:40
to put ads on their books. If they are paying people like
43:45
this that I don't, I don't even, I don't even think that I then
43:50
want to work with them myself. Because you are you are part of
43:57
the problem then as the publisher, and I think you have
43:59
a huge responsibility to be thinking about who you're
44:03
working with. Yeah, let's just put it this
44:05
way. One of the biggest book talkers,
44:08
one of the biggest with a million followers, literally
44:11
sexually harassed a hockey player and their wife and still
44:16
gets paid ads. Yeah, it's crazy that.
44:19
To me, and anyone to me, who consumes their content is part
44:23
of the problem, yeah. 100% of your comment.
44:27
On it because I keep seeing mutuals actually comment on
44:29
their posts and I'm like, what are you doing?
44:31
You're literally affiliating yourself.
44:34
That was another instant unfollow for me when that
44:36
happened, same as because I was following said creator from this
44:39
week and I was like instant unfollow.
44:41
I'd already unfollowed both of them when their big was hit so I
44:45
think I'm quite a good judge of character maybe.
44:47
I feel like my FYP is normally super drama free.
44:51
Like I normally know about these things.
44:54
Last you guys will be talking about something.
44:56
I'm like what? How have I missed this?
44:59
Yeah, yeah, crazy, crazy behaviour.
45:04
Yeah, OK, So what would you say to a newer creator who is scared
45:09
to post because of negative energy on book talk?
45:16
I feel like it's such a difficult one because you can
45:18
never control other people's actions.
45:21
You could post the most he see harmless content in the world
45:27
and someone could still have negative things to say about
45:31
you. And I will give the I'll give
45:33
the same advice to people that have messaged me saying, Oh, I'd
45:36
like, I wish that I had the confidence you do to to actually
45:40
post. And I just for me, you have to
45:44
be your most authentic self. That is the key.
45:46
Like authenticity is key for me. I remember in the early days of
45:50
my content where I was trying to be like other creators.
45:54
I was going nowhere, not really making any friends in the
45:58
community. And as soon as I started to be
46:00
more myself, the community grew. The following grew.
46:06
I had more fun with what I was doing.
46:08
I, I wasn't thinking about it after I posted.
46:11
I would just post and and then, you know, later come back to it
46:15
rather than something like, oh, because it felt so felt so
46:17
wrong. And I think if you can be your
46:20
most, most authentic self, you're going to find your
46:22
people. You're going to find the people
46:24
that you genuinely click with that you genuinely have
46:27
friendships with and and that's amazing.
46:30
I've watched so many amazing relationships flourish on this
46:33
app. You know, like us other people
46:36
in our group that we never would have met us besties.
46:40
When I think about someone who I follow and absolutely adore her
46:45
content is an author. Her name's Ali Fisher and she
46:50
just does like the most like fun.
46:52
Like she's just unapologetically herself.
46:55
Her videos always make me smile and she's made 22 friends
47:01
through this app and 1 is in was in the US and I saw a couple of
47:05
months ago, I think it might have been last year, they all
47:08
met up, the three of them like for the first time, all three of
47:11
them together. And I was like watching the
47:13
video. I was like, what?
47:13
Just like a magical freaking moment that you guys have become
47:16
so close that you've all travelled from, you know,
47:19
different parts to just see each other.
47:22
And I just think that's so magical.
47:25
And that's one of the beauties of social media and the
47:29
community that's been created on book Talk.
47:31
And that's what I want everyone to get back to positive space.
47:35
That is about something that we all love rather than tearing
47:41
people down. Because it makes me really sad,
47:44
as we saw earlier. And if you influence my kids to
47:47
do bad things. No, but I agree and also I think
47:57
we should mention that the Gem tour was talking about earlier
48:01
is Gem L Preston and she is actually an indie author and so
48:06
she is someone in this space that we really love and respect
48:10
and so you should all give her books a go because she deserves
48:13
it. Yes, absolutely.
48:15
She is a fancy romance girlie, Yeah.
48:18
And she's just like the best human being, like so supportive,
48:22
so lovely. So definitely little second
48:25
little shout out for Gem there. So if and if this is hit home
48:29
for anyone, please always know, feel free to slide into our DMS.
48:35
We are always happy to talk to anybody.
48:38
Be you, be authentic. Remember that you have your own
48:43
accountability, whether you're just a consumer of content or a
48:47
creator yourself. Please make good decisions and
48:52
we freaking love you. Thanks for listening to our
48:55
crazy, unhinged, off the cuff talk about toxic book talk.
49:02
Yeah, thanks for listening guys. This was a one off episode out
49:05
of sync with our normal schedule but we will resume service
49:09
shortly for a kind of less ranty episode probably.
49:14
But if you agree like Tor said, drop us a comment and let us
49:16
know your thoughts. Otherwise make sure you are
49:19
following us in all the places we're obviously on TikTok.
49:22
We're on Instagram at girls unplugged.
49:24
Then we have a YouTube and a Spotify Also.
49:26
It would really help us out if you can review our Spotify.
49:30
Just a shameless self promo but that would help if you could
49:33
give us a star rating. 5 obviously, but but yeah, thanks
49:39
guys and we will see you next time and.
49:41
Always remember to look after your mental health.