Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Michael Saylor is selling Bitcoin?! but here’s why it’s good for the price... | EP 1498

Transcript

Michael Saylor is selling Bitcoin?! but here’s why it’s good for the price... | EP 1498 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:02
  Michael Saylor and Strategy CEO Fong Lee both confirm that
• 0:06
  MicroStrategy will be selling some of their 818,000 Bitcoin.
• 0:13
  These announcements came last night on Strategy's earning call
• 0:16
  and surprisingly, it hasn't had an impact on the price.
• 0:20
  Bitcoin touch $82,000 this morning despite the biggest
• 0:24
  corporate holder talking about selling some of their treasury.
• 0:29
  I'm going to play you the two clips and then we will answer
• 0:32
  some of the questions that many of you are probably having right
• 0:37
  now. So let's start with the first
• 0:38
  one. This first one is Michael
• 0:40
  Saylor. These are very short clips.
• 0:42
  I I'm not trying to play them like out of context here.
• 0:45
  I'm just giving you the meat of this.
• 0:47
  And again, I'm going to follow it up with the Fong Lee clip.
• 0:52
  You buy Bitcoin with credit, you let it appreciate and then you
• 0:57
  sell Bitcoin to pay the dividend.
• 0:59
  And as long as you're you're issuing credit and excess of the
• 1:03
  break even point, then this business works and and grows
• 1:08
  forever. So very clearly a big divide
• 1:13
  from what we've heard sailors say for many years of never sell
• 1:17
  your Bitcoin. And now it seems like the
• 1:19
  strategy playbook is evolving a little bit.
• 1:22
  But before I fully break it down and show you some of the
• 1:24
  headlines, here's Fong Lee. And six, not necessarily most
• 1:29
  importantly, but maybe most notable, we will sell Bitcoin
• 1:32
  when it's advantageous to the company, right?
• 1:34
  We're not going to sit back and and and just say, you know,
• 1:36
  we'll never sell the Bitcoin. We want to be net aggregators of
• 1:38
  Bitcoin, increasing our total Bitcoin, but more importantly
• 1:41
  increasing our Bitcoin per share because we think that is what is
• 1:43
  going to be most accretive long term for MSTR and for the
• 1:46
  coming. So obviously very surprising
• 1:50
  kind of turn of events here. Oops.
• 1:52
  And everyone on Twitter was freaking out that everyone was
• 1:57
  tweeting like, wait, what's going on?
• 1:59
  I thought it was never sell your Bitcoin.
• 2:01
  And now we're getting to the point where they're actively
• 2:05
  talking about selling Bitcoin. Obviously, from a lot of
• 2:09
  people's perspectives, it's most likely the case that they're
• 2:11
  thinking, well, one of the biggest bulls in Bitcoin is now
• 2:15
  talking about selling Bitcoin. You know, it took what, five
• 2:18
  years of him basically as the pied piper out here saying to
• 2:22
  everyone, you just acquired Bitcoin for the long term.
• 2:25
  You never sell your Bitcoin. We are never going to sell
• 2:27
  Bitcoin. And now it seems like things
• 2:30
  have changed a little bit. Now, what is that big change?
• 2:33
  Obviously, I think it is the fact that Sailor has more than
• 2:37
  just the MSTR common stock. He's got the strike, the
• 2:41
  stretch, the stride, all of these other products now.
• 2:46
  And I think part of this conversation is what we've been
• 2:51
  saying on this show in regards to the Bitcoin treasury
• 2:53
  companies. It's becoming very obvious to
• 2:56
  almost everyone in the Bitcoin space that there's not much of A
• 3:00
  business model by just buying Bitcoin and acquiring Bitcoin
• 3:03
  and then expecting people to give you money.
• 3:06
  The cash flow problem is the biggest problem for these
• 3:10
  Bitcoin treasury companies. And now we're realizing, or
• 3:12
  maybe, you know, Sailor and Fong Li and Strategy knew all along
• 3:17
  that this would finally be the end goal.
• 3:19
  Now in conversation of how much impact will this have in my
• 3:26
  opinion, kind of doubtful, but let's go to some of the social
• 3:29
  media commentary about it. Obviously, I think everyone saw
• 3:33
  this one. If you're on Twitter, watch your
• 3:35
  guru comes out does a tweet Michael Saylor strategy proposes
• 3:39
  selling some Bitcoin to pay dividends.
• 3:41
  You buy Bitcoin with credit, you let it appreciate and then you
• 3:44
  sell Bitcoin to pay dividend. And then if you were looking
• 3:47
  through Google this morning on the Bitcoin news story, almost
• 3:52
  every media organization ran with that quote.
• 3:56
  Uh oh, sailor, the biggest bull in Bitcoin is going to sell
• 3:59
  Bitcoin. It's over.
• 4:00
  Even the bulls are getting bearish on Bitcoin.
• 4:03
  Even the bulls no longer believe in Bitcoin and you can see, you
• 4:07
  know, coin desk strategy way selling Bitcoin to fund
• 4:10
  dividends amid Q1 net loss. Also, that was other one of the
• 4:14
  other big kind of news stories that came out of this is that
• 4:17
  strategy reported a 12 1/2 billion dollar Q1 loss US
• 4:22
  obviously, I think that's just because of the the price action
• 4:25
  was negative through Q1. So you can see there is a lot of
• 4:29
  negative sentiment building around strategy.
• 4:31
  Personally, I think they are trying to fudge strategy here
• 4:34
  fudge Sailor, but there is a there is, you know, a move away
• 4:38
  from the narrative that we've heard from Sailor but going
• 4:41
  further. Yahoo Finance strategy shares
• 4:43
  slip after a wider than expected loss on Bitcoin declines.
• 4:46
  Michael Saylor said he would never sell Bitcoin.
• 4:48
  Now he says he might strategy from Bloomberg strategy sailors
• 4:52
  signals potential shift to Bitcoin sales etcetera,
• 4:56
  etcetera, etcetera or Reuters sailors strategy post wider
• 4:59
  quarterly loss on Bitcoin slump. So as you can see, there is, I
• 5:04
  don't want to say necessarily a coordinated attack here, but
• 5:08
  there is a very clear narrative trying to be built out right now
• 5:15
  that one of the biggest bulls in Bitcoin literally as I've been
• 5:18
  saying for a while, the guy that's probably keeping us out
• 5:21
  of like the 40K gulag in price has now shifted and said we are
• 5:27
  going to sell some Bitcoin now. Is this really that big of a
• 5:32
  deal? It's it's probably the question
• 5:34
  that I'm asking here because I think we all understand the
• 5:38
  Bitcoin treasury strategy. The financial side of how a
• 5:43
  Bitcoin treasury company will survive is one of the big
• 5:48
  conversations. Hence why last week at the
• 5:52
  Bitcoin conference, we heard Jack Mahler's partner with
• 5:56
  Tethers for 21 Capital and Electron.
• 5:58
  And the whole idea was, look, if you want to be a Bitcoin
• 6:02
  treasury company, we think the next move will be you need cash
• 6:06
  flow. Now, Sailors Strategy doesn't
• 6:09
  have no pun intended. Sailors Company, their business
• 6:13
  strategy, again no pun intended, does not really have cash flow
• 6:18
  in a traditional sense. The only money coming in is
• 6:21
  basically people trying to buy their equity, you know, trying
• 6:25
  to attract investors so that they can issue more credit,
• 6:29
  issue more stock, so they can buy more Bitcoin.
• 6:33
  A lot of people have been calling it as Ponzi and, and a
• 6:35
  lot of people cynical Bitcoiners.
• 6:36
  Some of my friends are like the Ponzi's up guys.
• 6:40
  The Ponzi is over for Sailor and he's and the rubber's finally
• 6:43
  hitting the road. Now.
• 6:45
  This is probably the general cynical take of what Sailor was
• 6:49
  saying. I think from a business
• 6:51
  perspective, from a financial perspective, I don't think it's
• 6:54
  really that crazy of an idea. It, it's, it seems more of like
• 7:00
  an asset balance sheet management move.
• 7:03
  Obviously like, you know, water is wet, but in context of how
• 7:09
  much capital is being brought in through the stretch, strike,
• 7:13
  stride, all the other products that Sailor has created through
• 7:17
  strategy, I I really don't think it's going to be a huge deal.
• 7:22
  The headlines and the tweets and the engagement are making it
• 7:25
  seem as if Saylor basically said we're going to liquidate our
• 7:29
  entire Bitcoin treasury because we're going to have trouble to
• 7:33
  pay back our dividends, which is clearly not the case.
• 7:37
  If you see a the Michael Saylor tweet, which yeah, he tweeted
• 7:41
  this this morning, which I think obviously this is a tweet that
• 7:47
  he made because he saw the backlash on Twitter.
• 7:51
  He saw the people freaking out, he saw the anti sentiment
• 7:56
  towards his business move. And so here's what Saylor
• 7:59
  tweeted this morning, which I think lends to the idea of
• 8:05
  they're not going to be selling their whole strategy or whole
• 8:08
  Bitcoin holdings. And he goes Bitcoin capital
• 8:10
  gains fund, the stretch credit dividends.
• 8:13
  That is a stark difference from the clip that we saw, though
• 8:18
  obviously he did clarify a little better in in the tweet
• 8:21
  than necessarily in that sound bite that was circulating.
• 8:26
  But he's not saying, hey, we are going to be forced to sell
• 8:30
  Bitcoin to pay back these dividends.
• 8:33
  He's basically saying, look, the games we get from holding this
• 8:36
  Bitcoin, we will take some off the table so that we can
• 8:39
  continue paying our dividend, which I think is where the
• 8:43
  balance sheet idea makes perfect sense.
• 8:45
  And maybe you're not the biggest fan of that idea.
• 8:48
  I know a lot of people in the chat, a lot of Bitcoiners have
• 8:51
  this idea, I'm going to hold this Bitcoin forever.
• 8:53
  I'm never going to sell it. Why would you sell the best
• 8:55
  pristine collateral, best money in the world?
• 8:58
  Well, this is a business and obviously if you have some
• 9:02
  capital gains or further, when I was thinking through this this
• 9:06
  morning, I'm like, I mean, he's basically saying like, yeah, I
• 9:09
  have, you know, 30K, you know, 30K in debt this month.
• 9:15
  I have 100K in gains this month. It's not that big of a deal to
• 9:21
  be like, yeah, OK, I'm going to, I'm going to just pay this off
• 9:23
  with some of my games here. It's like a simple financial
• 9:27
  move, but again, the headlines going around right now, and this
• 9:30
  is probably where the broader sentiment perspective comes in.
• 9:36
  What did it sound like when you saw this on Twitter?
• 9:38
  What did the initial kind of engagement tweets essentially
• 9:42
  say? It's like, oh, Sailor's going to
• 9:44
  sell his whole Bitcoin treasury holdings like it's over.
• 9:47
  The biggest bear, our biggest bull is finally going to get out
• 9:50
  of the market. We knew this was going to
• 9:52
  happen. And you see everyone ran with
• 9:54
  that. In actuality, when he kind of,
• 9:58
  you know, unpacks it, he's like, yeah, we we will sell some of
• 10:01
  our Bitcoin, but only the the capital gains of it.
• 10:04
  Only a very small portion of our stack are we going to sell to
• 10:08
  pay these dividends, which isn't that crazy.
• 10:10
  This is what I think Sailor has been saying for a very long
• 10:14
  time, though obviously on Twitter and through the media.
• 10:19
  It, it is an interesting headline to say the least.
• 10:22
  It's like, oh wait, didn't you used to say for years, never
• 10:25
  sell your Bitcoin And now is your company in trouble and
• 10:29
  you'd realize you have to sell Bitcoin or further, you are
• 10:32
  being forced to sell Bitcoin. And it's like, no, he's like,
• 10:35
  I'm going to, I'm going to take some of the gains.
• 10:38
  Keep this thing going It it's really not that crazy of an
• 10:42
  idea, you know, taking off say, I don't know 5000 Bitcoin when
• 10:48
  you're adding what what did he add to 1st Q1?
• 10:51
  I think the numbers were like 80,000 plus Bitcoin.
• 10:55
  It's not it's not that crazy. It's really not that big of a
• 10:59
  deal, but I think because Sailor has been so vocal on this idea
• 11:04
  of never sell your Bitcoin, now he's saying, oh, I have to sell
• 11:08
  Bitcoin or we will sell Bitcoin. I think it, I think it's making
• 11:13
  a lot of people uncomfortable here.
• 11:14
  I, I think a lot of people are looking at these, this headline
• 11:19
  and they're really worried about their bags.
• 11:21
  They're like, oh, no, Sailor is going to get in trouble and he's
• 11:24
  going to have to liquidate his entire holdings.
• 11:25
  And then we're going to really go into the gulags.
• 11:28
  It's over for the bull run. Like, what about my bags,
• 11:32
  Sailor? I thought you were going to pump
• 11:33
  up the, the price of Bitcoin. I thought you were going to save
• 11:36
  us here. I thought you're our savior and
• 11:38
  now you're telling us you're going to sell Bitcoin.
• 11:40
  I think it's overblown. Obviously it is a stark move
• 11:45
  from previous narratives, but it's really not that crazy of a
• 11:49
  move when you do a little 2nd order thinking here, it's it's
• 11:54
  really a minor move, but what do we know?
• 11:57
  What do I know? I'm just seeing the narratives
• 12:00
  happen on Twitter, on the corporate press, and I think
• 12:05
  this is just a continuation of the sailor hit pieces.
• 12:08
  It's just evolving, You know, what's the, what did we used to
• 12:11
  say, Nico? They're not bringing their best
• 12:13
  anymore. You know, the, the FUD is not
• 12:16
  getting any better. It's just progress.
• 12:18
  Wait, you had a you had a, what's your quote?
• 12:20
  What's your quote? The FUD is suffering from
• 12:24
  inflation. All right, so first of all,
• 12:25
  happy to be back guys. Got to give a shout out to Opti.
• 12:30
  The Bitcoin conference was absolutely crazy last week and
• 12:34
  it literally took a lot out of me.
• 12:37
  But a couple of things to unpack.
• 12:39
  So major announcement by 21 with the proposed merger of Electron
• 12:46
  and Strike, this would be the first true Bitcoin stock that
• 12:54
  actually has cash flow, right? Because a lot of the other
• 12:58
  treasury companies, they don't necessarily have cash flow.
• 13:03
  This would be the first. I wouldn't even call it a
• 13:06
  treasury company. I would just use Mahler's own
• 13:08
  words, a Bitcoin company that it has cash flow, it has a
• 13:16
  treasury, and it has multiple sources of revenue that all have
• 13:20
  to do with Bitcoin, right? So that's a first.
• 13:23
  That's massive, massive news. Now is it a coincidence?
• 13:29
  Is it destiny or whatever you want to call it the week after
• 13:34
  they made this massive, massive announcement?
• 13:36
  Because again, 21 wouldn't be in a position to have to sell their
• 13:40
  Bitcoin in the 1st place because they have the necessary cash
• 13:43
  flow. But this brings me to, and I'm
• 13:47
  again, this isn't my personal opinions.
• 13:49
  I'm just going to read you guys some of the comments that were
• 13:55
  posted. So this is Bob Lucas very well
• 13:58
  followed kind of like analysts and stuff.
• 14:00
  And he said these are what these are his words, not mine.
• 14:05
  Bob Lucas says sell Bitcoin to pay for, to pay somebody for
• 14:09
  giving you money to buy Bitcoin. Wait and nobody thought
• 14:12
  financial history thought of this.
• 14:15
  I'll let you guys. That's a good tweet.
• 14:17
  I'll let you guys interpret that as you can, but I kept telling
• 14:21
  you guys that the, the the stretch product was like the
• 14:28
  iPhone moment and it was a it was a massive, massive deal.
• 14:30
  And the reason it was a massive deal is because for fixed income
• 14:34
  investors, it would give it would be giving you that 11 1/2%
• 14:38
  yearly return, which is absolutely massive.
• 14:41
  But at the same time, you find you find themselves in these
• 14:45
  situations where because strategy doesn't have the
• 14:51
  necessary cash flow to justify its valuation or does it have
• 14:56
  the necessary cash flow in order to pay for those dividends, they
• 15:01
  might be put in a situation where they have to sell their
• 15:04
  Bitcoin. And, and again, I, I wouldn't
• 15:07
  criticize that statement so much, but from a stockholder's
• 15:12
  perspective, and I don't hold any strategy.
• 15:14
  I don't really hold stocks at all.
• 15:16
  I'm just a very simple guy and I buy spot Bitcoin if I had spot
• 15:20
  Bitcoin and I would put it in self custody if I had spot
• 15:22
  Bitcoin. But Sailor did say for the
• 15:28
  longest time, and this was his line, you never sell your
• 15:32
  Bitcoin over and over and over and over again.
• 15:35
  And everyone remembers that. And all those posts were
• 15:40
  essentially being recycled online over and over and over
• 15:43
  again. So when this announcement was
• 15:45
  made yesterday, if you're a strategy holder, I'm not saying
• 15:51
  that the stock isn't going to perform really well and I'm not
• 15:54
  questioning Sailors abilities whatsoever.
• 15:59
  The guy's clearly a genius. He has clearly experienced in
• 16:02
  the financial markets. He survivedthe.com crash, you
• 16:05
  know, he survived for 20 years for his stock basically going
• 16:08
  sideways. He managed to keep control of
• 16:10
  his company and then he, you know, pulled off of 1 of the
• 16:14
  biggest comebacks in in market history where his stock went
• 16:19
  from $20 a share, where it was for like 20 years.
• 16:23
  And he was basically saying there was nothing we could do.
• 16:25
  We couldn't compete with Microsoft.
• 16:27
  And the stock went all the way up to $500.00.
• 16:29
  So you can't discredit Sailor. You can't say, oh, look, he sold
• 16:33
  his Bitcoin now, now it's a wrap.
• 16:34
  Pack it up. You know, the ponzi's unroll,
• 16:37
  the ponzi's unraveling. No, no, no, I'm not saying that
• 16:40
  whatsoever. What I am saying is ammunition
• 16:43
  was given to the trolls. Ammunition was given to the
• 16:47
  people that are strategy haters. Ammunition was given to the
• 16:51
  people that had doubts on on Bitcoin treasury companies.
• 16:55
  Ammunition was given to them. And that ammunition that was
• 16:59
  given to them was sailor for many years saying you shall
• 17:04
  never sell your Bitcoin, that he made it one of his rules, right?
• 17:08
  So now you have it like a couple years later where strategies put
• 17:12
  in a position where they're seeing their earnings and
• 17:14
  they're like, Hey, guys, like we might be in a position where we
• 17:17
  have to sell our Bitcoin. And obviously that's not a good
• 17:22
  look. Like I'll be honest, and I'm a
• 17:24
  big sailor fan, right? But the big news, the big news
• 17:28
  out of all this, guys, is, and I've been telling you this since
• 17:31
  October, if you guys have been tuning into the show, ladies and
• 17:35
  gentlemen, this is what capitulation looks like, boys
• 17:40
  and girls. This is what bottoming out looks
• 17:45
  like, boys and girls. In October, I told you that this
• 17:48
  cycle what would happen was that you would see the treasury
• 17:53
  companies having to sell their Bitcoin.
• 17:56
  We never thought, and I was on record saying this, I never
• 17:59
  thought strategy would be one of these treasury companies.
• 18:04
  But even the treasury company of the treasury companies is now
• 18:08
  going out on record and saying, hey, we might be put in a
• 18:11
  position where we have to sell our Bitcoin, right?
• 18:14
  And I told you guys, if you want to see what capitulation looks
• 18:18
  like, this is it. You're watching it in 4K right
• 18:23
  now. I know a lot of people have been
• 18:25
  criticizing me, Opti included calling.
• 18:28
  Me. A calling me a calling me a bear
• 18:31
  and saying, hey Nico, you're a bear and and you're this and
• 18:35
  you're that. OK, fair enough.
• 18:40
  What I'm trying to say is I think that if we hold these
• 18:45
  price levels for the next three months or so, if we channel
• 18:51
  between the 80K and the 60K region, I think there's a very
• 18:56
  high probability that the bottom was in.
• 18:59
  And I'm going and I'm going on record saying that.
• 19:02
  Yeah, 40% late, but all right, I'll give it to you.
• 19:04
  I'm going, I'm going on record saying that, hey, listen, you
• 19:07
  got October wrong. I might have gotten this.
• 19:10
  Wrong. Let's go.
• 19:11
  Hey, let's go. Let's go.
• 19:12
  Let's see what happens over the next three months.
• 19:14
  The next three months are really is really what's going to show
• 19:19
  is really what's going to show who was right and who was wrong
• 19:23
  and and all. Of that stuff, maybe we're just
• 19:25
  half right, but. I'm going to be really, I'm
• 19:28
  going to be paying attention to the summer months because there
• 19:31
  is a very famous quote, right, which is sell in May and then go
• 19:35
  away. So can Bitcoin hold these price
• 19:39
  levels again, it's between 80 and 60K.
• 19:42
  Can it range between 80 and 60K over the summer?
• 19:46
  If it can, then I think the bottom is in.
• 19:49
  There's a very high probability that the bottom is in.
• 19:52
  If we can get through the summer and we're still above the 60K
• 19:55
  region. I, I don't see us going down
• 19:58
  into the 50s and the 40s and the high 30s.
• 20:01
  I just don't see it happening just because of again, the this
• 20:07
  cycle was different in in the, in the sense that we didn't have
• 20:11
  a euphoric top, We didn't have a euphoric top.
• 20:15
  We what we had was a a top on apathy.
• 20:20
  So to think that the bear cycle would play differently is very
• 20:26
  logical because if we didn't have a euphoric top, why would
• 20:31
  we not? Why would we have a 70 to 80%
• 20:34
  correction? Because usually when you have
• 20:37
  those euphoric tops, that's when the mania comes in.
• 20:40
  That's when retail starts to pile in.
• 20:42
  And those are the first people that capitulate when the when
• 20:45
  the price starts going down, right?
• 20:47
  So we didn't really have that influx of mania of retail mania
• 20:51
  coming in. So we really going to have that
• 20:55
  capitulation of retail mania going out.
• 20:58
  That's the big question. So I am feeling more bullish
• 21:02
  than I was feeling towards the beginning of the year.
• 21:06
  And I think the question on everybody's mind is, is the
• 21:09
  bottom in right? And I don't think anyone has the
• 21:11
  answer to that question. I think we're just observers,
• 21:13
  we're commentators and we'll keep you guys informed.
• 21:16
  But sitting at $82,000 is, is pretty good.
• 21:20
  I think that's a 20%, you know, rise from the high and you know,
• 21:25
  crazy, crazy news happening overall in just the, the, the
• 21:28
  Bitcoin world, right, with the 21 announcement last week and
• 21:32
  then the sailor announcement this week that it's never a dull
• 21:36
  or boring day in the Bitcoin industry.
• 21:39
  Debatable. Something happened.
• 21:42
  Highly debatable. Wait, wait.
• 21:43
  I I do want to, I do. I do kind of have to push back
• 21:46
  on, on the capitulation of Bitcoin treasury strategy stuff,
• 21:49
  though it is being taken as one. Like this could potentially be
• 21:55
  one of those signals that in hindsight, we look back and be
• 21:58
  like, yeah, you know, Sailor basically saying he's going to
• 22:01
  sell some Bitcoin should have been very obvious that like
• 22:04
  we're at the bottom. But I think to be clear,
• 22:07
  especially from what Sailor tweeted, they're basically
• 22:11
  implying that when it goes back up, they will sell some Bitcoin
• 22:16
  to pay some dividends. He did say Bitcoin capital gains
• 22:19
  here. So I don't think it's
• 22:22
  necessarily a bear market bottom like we're running out of money.
• 22:28
  I, I think that's where a lot of the context is being overblown.
• 22:33
  I, I don't think he, basically, I don't think Fon Lee or Michael
• 22:36
  Saylor either said we might have to sell, we might have to
• 22:40
  liquidate our Bitcoin treasury to pay the dividends again, to
• 22:44
  be clear, Saylor said Bitcoin capital gains pays stretch
• 22:48
  dividends, hence implying when the price goes up they will sell
• 22:53
  some of their Bitcoin to pay the dividends.
• 22:55
  Yeah, but I mean, like and and I see a lot of people like coming
• 22:59
  in and and you know, the again, these are people that are cooked
• 23:03
  obviously holds a lot of strategy stock.
• 23:05
  And and I do hear them saying like basically like look like,
• 23:09
  you know, Sailor might sell a little bit of Bitcoin this week,
• 23:12
  but he ends up buying more Bitcoin the next week.
• 23:14
  But listen, if you just boil it down to first principles, right,
• 23:21
  which I think is really, really, really important, right, is
• 23:27
  look, ultimately this wouldn't have been a big issue.
• 23:32
  I ultimately, I don't think that this would have been like, you
• 23:35
  know. Wouldn't be news.
• 23:36
  It wouldn't even be news. It wouldn't.
• 23:37
  Even been been news, the fundamental problem is the
• 23:42
  promise, right? The fundamental.
• 23:44
  Problem. Is the slogan you don't sell
• 23:47
  your Bitcoin, right? That that is the fundamental
• 23:50
  issue here is that that was said, that was like that was
• 23:55
  like, you know, put on it like became part of like the the
• 23:59
  Bitcoin lexicon. Like you don't sell your
• 24:01
  Bitcoin, but then it's like you don't sell your Bitcoin, but in
• 24:06
  a particular situation you could have to sell your Bitcoin well.
• 24:10
  I mean, just to sound bite, don't sell your Bitcoin.
• 24:12
  It sounds really good. But like everyone's like it's
• 24:15
  money. I want to use my money
• 24:17
  eventually. Like in that context, it's like,
• 24:19
  yeah, I get just don't sell your whole stack.
• 24:21
  But let me, let me and let me like kind of like add on that,
• 24:25
  right? Like it's interesting to me
• 24:27
  because Sailor, ultimately he is class of 2021, right?
• 24:34
  But it's 20/20 though I think. 20, 2020-2021 was when he made
• 24:38
  the announcement. Was it at the Bitcoin conference
• 24:40
  in my? Yeah, but he was stacking in
• 24:42
  2020. I guess he was stacking in 2020.
• 24:44
  People didn't know, so he's class of 2020.
• 24:47
  Now here's the thing, if you've been in this industry long
• 24:52
  enough and you've survived a couple cycles, you all know at
• 24:58
  this point that the you don't sell your Bitcoin does not.
• 25:03
  Work right if you're all in. If you're all in.
• 25:06
  Right. Which sailor is?
• 25:07
  And a lot of us took that, right?
• 25:09
  A lot of us. A lot of us, you know.
• 25:13
  Now, Nico, now you're giving them ammunition.
• 25:15
  Went down that route so, but this is something that you only
• 25:20
  learn through paying your dues. The only difference here is that
• 25:25
  Sailor has a lot more capital, it's a lot more public, there's
• 25:30
  a lot more eyeballs on it. So me telling my friends and
• 25:35
  family, hey, don't sell your Bitcoin in 2017 and 2018 and
• 25:40
  2019. And then, you know, me having to
• 25:43
  sell a little bit of Bitcoin because, you know, perhaps I got
• 25:45
  overextended or something like that, like whatever, that
• 25:49
  doesn't really matter. Like it doesn't really hold
• 25:51
  weight. Like people forget about it,
• 25:52
  right? Because I'm not a massive
• 25:55
  publicly traded company, but when Saylor does it, it's a lot
• 25:58
  more eyeballs. But what I'm the point I'm
• 26:00
  trying to make is that he's just going through the same cycles
• 26:03
  that all of us have gone through.
• 26:05
  If you've been in the space and if you've held through multiple
• 26:09
  cycles, that's the only fundamental difference, ladies
• 26:13
  and gentlemen. So yeah, I mean, that's my
• 26:17
  that's my take on all this is that I think it I think it would
• 26:21
  have been a nothing burger of news.
• 26:23
  Totally. But the fact that he made it
• 26:26
  part of his brand and his identity not to sell your
• 26:29
  Bitcoin, I think gives the trolls and the strategy haters
• 26:34
  and the treasury company haters a ton of ammunition
• 26:37
  simultaneously at the same time the announcement last week.
• 26:43
  By the timing isn't. By 21 was massive.
• 26:47
  It was huge and the reason it was huge and, and Mahler's has
• 26:52
  been, you know, he did a show on this, he did a keynote on this.
• 26:55
  I think I saw a good tweet. I'll, I'll pull it up.
• 26:56
  Is that it's going to be really the only Bitcoin company that
• 27:02
  had that's publicly traded that holds a lot of Bitcoin.
• 27:06
  I think they're the second largest holder of Bitcoin that
• 27:11
  their business model isn't going to be about essentially
• 27:20
  financial engineering to accumulate more Bitcoin.
• 27:24
  Their business model is going to be about growing the cash flows
• 27:29
  for 21. There is no other Bitcoin
• 27:34
  company that's publicly traded that falls into that category.
• 27:39
  That again, not only covers not only covers a sector of the
• 27:44
  space, it covers multiple sectors of the space, right.
• 27:49
  So that I find very, very interesting.
• 27:52
  And then again, simultaneously, this happens the next week with
• 27:58
  Sailor, which kind of proves the point of what Mahler's was
• 28:03
  saying, because that was the thesis.
• 28:04
  So it's like, listen, you can have a company that's holding
• 28:08
  Bitcoin, but if it doesn't produce cash flows, is it really
• 28:13
  a company? Because that was the whole
• 28:15
  treasury thing, guys. Like that's what a lot of people
• 28:18
  like. That's what a lot of people
• 28:20
  missed. And there was a mania phase for
• 28:22
  Bitcoin. It just the mania phase didn't
• 28:25
  happen in it didn't happen in the spot Bitcoin market.
• 28:31
  It happened in the Bitcoin treasury markets.
• 28:33
  And I think it got to a point where it was just like it, it,
• 28:38
  it, it entered A euphoric mania phase.
• 28:40
  The valuations didn't make sense, right?
• 28:43
  Because like a lot of these companies were trading like 2 or
• 28:46
  3 or 4 or 5 * M NAV, which is the amount of Bitcoin that
• 28:50
  they're holding, but they didn't have the cash flows to go along
• 28:54
  with it. And then when the mania kind of
• 28:56
  blew up and, and you know, the prices started correcting, you
• 29:01
  know, a lot of these companies went below their M NAV.
• 29:04
  And if these companies were below their M NAV, the question
• 29:08
  is, is like why would I buy a treasury company that's below M
• 29:14
  NAV where there is a ton of there's a ton of there's a ton
• 29:24
  of risk in terms of dilution and in terms of management and in
• 29:29
  terms of execution. Why would I take on that
• 29:32
  additional risk if I can just buy spot Bitcoin without having
• 29:37
  to take that risk? You can make the argument that
• 29:40
  you are taking that risk because you want to levered play on
• 29:45
  Bitcoin. You can make that argument and
• 29:49
  that argument maybe holds water. I, I have no doubt that that
• 29:53
  levered play during a bull market I think could potentially
• 29:57
  work in your favor. But you are taking additional
• 30:00
  risk. And what is that additional
• 30:01
  risk? You're taking counterparty risk,
• 30:04
  right? Ultimately, if it's not your
• 30:06
  Bitcoin in self custody, it's not your Bitcoin.
• 30:08
  And that secondary risk is you're taking a risk on the
• 30:12
  management, you're taking a risk on the execution, and you're
• 30:17
  also being diluted potentially. So there's three separate topics
• 30:21
  there that, you know, you kind of have to consider and you kind
• 30:26
  of have to digest and think about because this is what
• 30:31
  ultimately ended up playing out, man.
• 30:32
  Like the bear market conditions or the Bitcoin price conditions
• 30:37
  for strategy, they put them in a in a corner to essentially have
• 30:42
  to potentially sell a portion of their stack to, to pay their
• 30:46
  dividends. Now you could see how that could
• 30:48
  spiral, which is another conversation, right?
• 30:51
  You could see how if this bear marking continues and if we go
• 30:56
  down to the 506040K region, bro, what?
• 31:01
  What else do you think they're going to do?
• 31:03
  Right? So yeah, I mean, it's, it's a
• 31:07
  lot of things happening at the same time, is what I'm saying.
• 31:10
  Yeah, and and here's the for the audio listeners, the Jack
• 31:12
  Muller's tweet that goes, yes, cash flow plus Bitcoin treasury
• 31:16
  is a dream. We're working on it.
• 31:18
  So obviously the the timing of all of this, I think is very
• 31:24
  inter inter sorry, interconnected to say the least.
• 31:27
  So I think it wouldn't like Nico said, it wouldn't have been a
• 31:31
  new story if Saylor's brand wasn't built on it.
• 31:34
  But as we've been covering for the last, I don't even know how
• 31:38
  many months, Nico, like when, when did the Bitcoin treasury
• 31:41
  companies all start collapsing? You know, four or five months
• 31:44
  ago we've been saying, look, there is an evolution happening
• 31:48
  right now in the Bitcoin treasury space.
• 31:50
  We've all realized that the hype that we all expected in Bitcoin
• 31:54
  ended up in the Bitcoin treasury space.
• 31:56
  And now that hype is dying down, there is, you know, a
• 32:01
  reiteration of how do we continue to do this?
• 32:05
  How do we actually provide value to people?
• 32:07
  And I think this is one of those cases.
• 32:09
  It really does seem like a nothing burger to to me, or
• 32:14
  rather in like the grand scheme of things, but.
• 32:16
  A a a nothing burger for now. Yeah, the Ponzi is good for now,
• 32:22
  but. Later, The thing is like, I
• 32:25
  don't know. I don't know if it's look.
• 32:27
  Look, it's it's not a Ponzi. It's just that's just a joke.
• 32:29
  That's just a joke. Well, look, so I I think we
• 32:35
  really have to boil it down to this, right?
• 32:38
  Like so like if what if you define what a Ponzi is, right?
• 32:45
  You find what a Ponzi is. Like from Google, a Ponzi is you
• 32:49
  take money from someone to pay out, you know, new people coming
• 32:53
  in. Oh wait, you take money from new
• 32:55
  people to pay out the old people in in in the scheme.
• 32:59
  That's why the cash flow part is so important.
• 33:03
  Ponzi for the people. That's why that should be
• 33:05
  sailors. New Marketing.
• 33:07
  I didn't say that that's why the cash flow part is so important.
• 33:11
  Like, that's why it's so, so important because again, you
• 33:15
  have an actual business that's actually producing revenue,
• 33:19
  that's actually producing revenue that they can use to buy
• 33:22
  Bitcoin rather than, you know, taking out loans or diluting
• 33:26
  their stock or any of this stuff.
• 33:29
  They actually have cash flow to buy more Bitcoin, which again,
• 33:34
  technically Opti, we do run a Bitcoin company.
• 33:38
  We're not going out there. We're.
• 33:40
  A Bitcoin treasury company. We're not going, I mean
• 33:43
  technically, we technically any company that has Bitcoin on
• 33:46
  their treasuries. I got AI got a new scheme here.
• 33:49
  You got tokenize Opti send me cash.
• 33:52
  Oh my Bitcoin. I don't know the returns No, I'm
• 33:56
  trolling. I'm trolling.
• 33:56
  I'm trolling so. What I'm, what I'm trying to say
• 33:58
  is like, like, you know, I think that there is a fundamental
• 34:02
  shift and with that announcement that came last.
• 34:05
  Week. I think that's the biggest
• 34:07
  signal. Here like it really kind of
• 34:09
  proves that, right. Like ultimately, if you don't
• 34:11
  have a cash flow producing business behind your business,
• 34:18
  is it really a business? And how much financial
• 34:21
  engineering could you get away with?
• 34:23
  Or, or put another way, just taking people's money to buy
• 34:28
  Bitcoin isn't a business. I think that's what the market
• 34:32
  has. Signaled that's that's yeah,
• 34:34
  that's. I think that's what the market
• 34:36
  has signaled. And I think that the market got
• 34:37
  carried away with the mania of the treasury companies.
• 34:40
  They pumped like crazy. But there there's there's this
• 34:43
  massive correction. And even with the price
• 34:45
  recovering, a lot of these, a lot of these treasury companies
• 34:48
  are not above their M NAV. So as an investor, would I want
• 34:53
  to buy one of those companies It it doesn't make sense.
• 34:57
  I'd rather just want to buy spot Bitcoin, right?
• 34:59
  Because then you then you take, you take on additional risk.
• 35:02
  That additional risk is dilution, the, the custody
• 35:07
  aspect and the, the execution by management.
• 35:14
  So you're taking on additional risk for that.
• 35:16
  Is that worth it for you as an investor?
• 35:20
  It could be like, who knows, right?
• 35:22
  But I think This is why that 21 announcement was so big, right?
• 35:26
  Because like really for the first time, you actually have a
• 35:30
  massive Bitcoin company. I think he called it the Bitcoin
• 35:34
  company that is focusing on generating cash flows and
• 35:39
  they're going to use those cash flows to buy more Bitcoin rather
• 35:42
  than financial engineering to buy more Bitcoin, which I don't
• 35:47
  have the technical expertise or know how to tell you how that's
• 35:50
  going to end. But I do have a whole lot of
• 35:53
  common sense. And you know, we, we've, we've
• 35:58
  seen this before, right? Where which is shots fired?
• 36:02
  What do you mean? You're like, yeah, you know, I
• 36:08
  think Mahler's is right, but, and I got some common sense, I
• 36:11
  don't know about what Sailor's doing anyway.
• 36:14
  I mean, I remember, I remember talking, I remember I had an
• 36:17
  interview with Mahler's at the Plan B in at Plan B in El
• 36:23
  Salvador before any of this stuff went down.
• 36:26
  And I asked him that same question along the lines, you
• 36:33
  guys could look at the recording, right?
• 36:35
  And I alluded to, you know, hey, so like, so is this a good like,
• 36:41
  are you, you know, it's is this the model?
• 36:43
  That's what what's happening. And I remember Mahler stepping
• 36:46
  in saying, I didn't say that. I didn't say that I didn't say
• 36:48
  that, right? And then he clearly saw the
• 36:51
  writing on the wall. And then Mahlers and his
• 36:54
  partners pivoted completely, right?
• 36:57
  So now they are a company that's generating cash flow, right?
• 37:02
  Which is how companies are supposed to.
• 37:04
  Yeah, that's just like a company.
• 37:06
  That's how that's how simply runs.
• 37:09
  That's how companies run. What you do is you generate
• 37:12
  revenue, you generate profits, and then you put some of those
• 37:15
  profits into your treasury. That treasury could be cash or
• 37:19
  that treasury could be Bitcoin, right?
• 37:22
  But I think what a lot of these treasury companies are doing is
• 37:25
  that they're in a way they're taking on a form of leverage.
• 37:30
  That's really what it that's. Literally what it is.
• 37:32
  That's literally what they're. Doing and they're diluting
• 37:34
  their, their shareholders in the process, right.
• 37:37
  So I think it was a. Huge.
• 37:38
  I think the best comparison I've heard is like sailors basically
• 37:42
  just doing what the Bank of England has done.
• 37:44
  You know, you, you take, you take debt to acquire assets.
• 37:48
  It's like that's what they've been doing for a long time now.
• 37:50
  They're just doing it on a Bitcoin standard.
• 37:52
  So I, I don't think what Nico and I are saying, it's
• 37:56
  necessarily that we think, you know, strategy is going to go
• 37:59
  down like we're, we're not here to pile in on the FUD.
• 38:01
  Oh, by the way. Mahler's went hard, did he?
• 38:05
  On on strategy. I I must have missed that.
• 38:07
  Mahler's went hard on strategy. He was calling outlook.
• 38:11
  Let's just boil it down to first principles, right?
• 38:14
  And again, we're observers here. I'm a big fan of what Saylor has
• 38:17
  done and I'm a big fan of what what Mahler's has done.
• 38:22
  I'm a big fan of any builder in the space in the Bitcoin space
• 38:25
  because I see a lot of people that are judging on the
• 38:28
  sidelines and you know what judge judge not the man in the
• 38:32
  arena. It is so difficult guys, and I'm
• 38:35
  speaking from first hand experience.
• 38:37
  I we might just be a small, you know, media company in the
• 38:40
  Bitcoin space, but speaking from first hand experience, it is
• 38:44
  incredibly difficult to build. It is incredibly easy to just,
• 38:50
  you know, cast judgement on the builders.
• 38:52
  So I'm not casting judgement on Sailor and I'm not casting
• 38:57
  judgement on any of the other treasury companies like
• 39:00
  Nakamoto, for example, not casting judgement on any of
• 39:03
  those. But I will say again, from a
• 39:06
  first principles perspective, if you're a company, what is the
• 39:10
  point of your of the company? The point of the company is to
• 39:13
  generate cash flows and you get a valuation based on the cash
• 39:18
  flows that you're generating. What Saylor has done with
• 39:21
  strategy, again, a lot of this I don't understand.
• 39:25
  I know that his core business is not generating the cash flows to
• 39:31
  justify the valuation that strategy has.
• 39:34
  And this applies to a lot of the other treasury companies as
• 39:38
  well. I think you need, and again,
• 39:43
  I'm, I'm not, don't, don't come from a finance background.
• 39:46
  I think you need a company that generates cash flows to be
• 39:51
  behind that company. Just basic first principles, one
• 39:56
  O. One, yeah, we're real we're
• 39:57
  we're real wait, we're I can't see we are rebuilding A
• 40:03
  profitable company from first principles.
• 40:06
  Oh, you need to make money so that you can save profits and
• 40:10
  and. And again, I, I, I, I don't.
• 40:12
  And but again, I can't. I can't, I can't cat.
• 40:15
  I can't cast judgment on Sailor and I can't cast judgement on,
• 40:21
  you know, on any of his things because first of all, I don't
• 40:23
  have the expertise. And again, judge, judge not the
• 40:27
  man in the arena and I'm not in that arena.
• 40:29
  I'm not in the publicly traded Bitcoin treasury company arena
• 40:34
  for me to cast my judgement or my opinion on this.
• 40:37
  What I could do is just offer my commentary as a mere observer,
• 40:42
  right? And I think again, all of this
• 40:45
  to weave it back in and to close the loop, I think all of this
• 40:50
  could have been avoided if he just didn't say never sell your
• 40:54
  Bitcoin. If you didn't say that line, all
• 40:56
  of this could have been. Avoided.
• 40:57
  Well, you know, I feel this pain because I also say a lot of
• 41:00
  stupid stuff, put my foot in my mouth.
• 41:04
  You know, when you talk a lot, it's just kind of part of the
• 41:08
  game. You know, you say some things
• 41:11
  and you forget what you said a few years ago and they're like,
• 41:14
  you're contradicting yourself and you're like, well, it is
• 41:19
  what it is. It is what it is.
• 41:21
  Yeah, yeah. But listen, ultimately, I'm
• 41:25
  bullish on strategy, I'm bullish on sailor, I'm bullish on 21,
• 41:29
  I'm bullish on all Bitcoin companies.
• 41:31
  I'm bullish on this entire space.
• 41:33
  If you don't have Bitcoin on your treasury, if you're not
• 41:37
  actively, you know, putting your neck on the line and you're not
• 41:42
  actively building on Bitcoin and you don't have Bitcoin on your
• 41:45
  treasury, those are the people that I would criticize.
• 41:49
  Those are the losers in this game, the people that are
• 41:52
  actively taking risks and they're actively building.
• 41:55
  However which way they see like, you know, they feel like
• 41:58
  building. Ultimately, the free market is
• 42:00
  going to decide who the winners and the losers are.
• 42:02
  We're going to observe and we're going to comment on all of this.
• 42:06
  It's just funny how this played out and it, it, it is, you know,
• 42:11
  it, it. It's the timing, the timing.
• 42:13
  It's it's the timing. It's a little bit comedic as
• 42:15
  well, right? But yeah man, I mean, don't sell
• 42:20
  your Bitcoin, but. Don't sell your Bitcoin asterisk
• 42:26
  asterisk, right? And this is something that I've
• 42:30
  been humbled enough to be in this position where it's like,
• 42:33
  yeah, I'm, I'm never going to sell my Bitcoin.
• 42:36
  I've been put in positions where I've had to sell my Bitcoin to
• 42:40
  live or to, to, to, you know, pay for expenses or stuff like
• 42:43
  that. So it's like, I think the the
• 42:45
  American Huddle said it best, right?
• 42:47
  And American Huddle's been in the space for so long.
• 42:50
  And he was like, listen, like it is incredibly hard to huddle.
• 42:54
  It's so hard to huddle. Like it's easy in theory.
• 42:57
  If you think about it, it's so easy.
• 42:59
  Why is it easy? Just hold your Bitcoin.
• 43:01
  Just hold your Bitcoin. But it is so difficult because
• 43:05
  you have to shoulder, you have to live through the volatility
• 43:10
  of those ups and downs, right? So I think the take away from
• 43:15
  this is, and what American Huddle said, is make sure that
• 43:18
  you keep the majority of your stack.
• 43:21
  That's exactly what I said. That's the key take away.
• 43:23
  That's the whole take away that's.
• 43:25
  The key take away, because it's like, OK, if you make it over
• 43:28
  the finish line a decade from now and let's say you don't have
• 43:33
  100% of your stock, but let's say you have 80% of your stock,
• 43:37
  you're going to be more than all right, You're going to be
• 43:40
  thriving, right? So, you know, but again, we all
• 43:44
  have to go through this. We all have to go through this
• 43:46
  experience. We all have to go through, you
• 43:49
  know. It's also like, since we're in
• 43:51
  media, you know that nuance doesn't hit as hard as just
• 43:54
  like, never. Sell your Bitcoin.
• 43:55
  It's like. Hey, never sell your Bitcoin,
• 43:58
  but just like make it over with most of your stack, it just
• 44:01
  doesn't ring the same way so it. Doesn't ring the same way.
• 44:03
  It doesn't ring the same way. And I think, I think sailors,
• 44:06
  OK, we're gonna end it with this and then we're gonna go to the
• 44:08
  next. Segment yeah, 45 minutes on
• 44:10
  this. Wow, Nika's been gone for a
• 44:11
  while. We're ranting.
• 44:12
  Never sell your Bitcoin unless you absolutely have to sell
• 44:17
  your. See that doesn't have the same
• 44:18
  ring. It doesn't have the same ring,
• 44:20
  but that, I think that's the key take away here.
• 44:22
  That's the rule I've been living by if I had Bitcoin, and that's
• 44:26
  the rule Opti's been living by if he had.
• 44:28
  I don't hold Bitcoin. If he had Bitcoin, and I think
• 44:31
  that's the rule that every bitcoiner should be living by,
• 44:34
  is try to keep as much as your Bitcoin as humanly possible and
• 44:39
  only sell if you really, really have to.
• 44:43
  But again, that doesn't ring as well.
• 44:44
  It doesn't have the ring. That doesn't slap.
• 44:46
  Yeah, that doesn't slap. That's too many words, all
• 44:48
  right. Rewind.
• 44:49
  Just never sell your Bitcoin. We're back to stage one.
• 44:52
  Never sell your Bitcoin, ladies and gentlemen.
• 44:55
  But anyways, a lots of interesting things going on,
• 44:59
  lots of things to cover on today's show.
• 45:01
  Thank you guys so much for tuning in.
• 45:03
  Happy to be back in the in the hot seat.
• 45:05
  Man, it's it's been quite a while.
• 45:07
  It's literally a hot seat. It is a hot.
• 45:10
  Seat. I don't know how we wear hoodies
• 45:11
  in here. Really hot in here.
• 45:13
  Anyway, it's going to. Be a great show, guys.
• 45:15
  We're going to be right back in just a little bit.
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• 47:30
  All right guys, we are back for the numbers and the current
• 47:35
  Bitcoin price is $81,480, which is a 35.4% discount from all
• 47:46
  time high. We are at a $1.63 trillion
• 47:48
  market cap and the block height is let's refresh this block
• 47:52
  height is 948,194. OK guys.
• 47:57
  So should I pull out the chart to give you context to this one?
• 48:03
  No, no, I I'm not going to do that.
• 48:05
  I'm not going to subject you to that.
• 48:07
  But obviously as we've been covering or rather as I've been
• 48:12
  covering on the show, we are seeing some very frothy price
• 48:17
  action right now. And I think yesterday I said, or
• 48:20
  actually since Friday, I've been basically saying if we get into
• 48:25
  the 808182 ish range, then the conversation is getting very
• 48:33
  interesting. It it is, you know, I, I, Nico
• 48:36
  will be back in one minute. So we will chat about this.
• 48:38
  He had to jump on a call real quick.
• 48:41
  If we get past this kind of range area that we're right now
• 48:46
  roughly around 82 K, maybe maybe just a tad bit higher, it does
• 48:51
  start to invalidate the idea that we're going to be in a bear
• 48:56
  market until October. I know you guys don't
• 49:00
  necessarily always like the fact that we do talk about price on
• 49:04
  this show, but if you're not a hardcore bitcoiner, that's what
• 49:08
  you're looking at and I've said it multiple times on this show.
• 49:10
  I think look, there's other aspects of Bitcoin besides the
• 49:14
  price that are very interesting, which we talk about all the
• 49:16
  time. Censorship resistance,
• 49:18
  permission list, you know, peer-to-peer money, 21 million
• 49:21
  hard cap, all that good stuff. But I'm also, for lack of better
• 49:27
  term, like a free market guy. And I think price does give us a
• 49:31
  lot of signal of what's going on.
• 49:33
  Anyways, there is a lot of conversations going on right now
• 49:37
  on Twitter in regards to the status quo idea of a four year
• 49:44
  cycle playing out. Basically, we're probably going,
• 49:48
  you know, this might be up in May, sell in May and then we're
• 49:52
  going to be in a bear market until October.
• 49:55
  And then there's probably more of my lane where I'm like we're
• 49:58
  already almost 40% off the bottom.
• 50:01
  I think we I think, I think the bear market's over guys.
• 50:04
  OK, But I'm not the only one saying this stuff.
• 50:07
  OK, here is just maybe some interesting signals on chain or
• 50:15
  rather metrics to kind of keep in mind of where we currently
• 50:19
  are. So I know a lot of people, as I
• 50:23
  said, hold on. Whoa, my screen's freaking out.
• 50:28
  I know many people probably don't care because it's like,
• 50:31
  I'm just buying Bitcoin. Like we said in the last
• 50:33
  segment, never sell your you're like, I'm just buying Bitcoin.
• 50:35
  I'm holding it for 10 years. I really don't care about the
• 50:38
  price. I only come here just to hang
• 50:39
  out with my Bros. Totally get that.
• 50:42
  There's another faction of people that are very high price.
• 50:46
  Did you kick me off? So here is the the metrics and
• 50:52
  signals that this is probably like the best analysis.
• 50:55
  And maybe it's just me confirming my bias.
• 50:58
  But anyways, the first one is by James Van Stratton who is a
• 51:03
  senior analyst at Coindesk. Interesting take hard, very
• 51:09
  spicy ending here, which I do fundamentally agree with.
• 51:12
  So he goes. Even though Bitcoin is below the
• 51:14
  200 day moving average, which by definition is bearish, Bitcoin
• 51:17
  has kept itself above the short term hodler cost basis and true
• 51:22
  market mean you've had you have had oil at 1:15 and master MSTR
• 51:30
  spooking the market with Bitcoin sales and Bitcoin is up.
• 51:34
  The bottom is in the four year cycle is over and we have all
• 51:38
  time highs this year. Hold on, hold on, hold on where
• 51:41
  Where is my where's my horns here?
• 51:47
  Have I not been saying this? This is why I'm saying this.
• 51:51
  This is why I'm bringing this up.
• 51:52
  But going further, I like this one from check.
• 51:55
  Maybe this one is on the same line, very similar kind of
• 52:00
  perspective. He's saying pretty much the same
• 52:02
  thing and he goes wow dude my charts are or my tabs are messed
• 52:08
  up. He goes bears first line of
• 52:10
  defense was 78 K in line with the short term holder cost basis
• 52:14
  and true market mean. Their second line of defense is
• 52:19
  the 200 day moving average at 83 K, which I'd extend to 85 K
• 52:26
  given the large supply cluster in that zone.
• 52:30
  You lose that and the bears last stand is 95 K at the 50 week
• 52:34
  moving average. But by the time you get to the
• 52:36
  bears last stand, you just have to ask yourself, how did we end
• 52:41
  up here? Which is the best part about
• 52:45
  this is I got Nico back. Look, I've been, I'm telling
• 52:54
  you, I don't know, but as I mentioned the last couple of
• 52:58
  days, this, this 8283 K range is probably the most interesting
• 53:03
  range currently. If we break out to the upside
• 53:05
  into the 85 I, I think I think we can all admit sooner rather
• 53:12
  than later that the bottom has been in.
• 53:14
  Yeah, I mean, I'm sticking to what I said in the beginning.
• 53:16
  Of the show. Like I what I'm paying attention
• 53:19
  to is like what bitcoins price action is going to be during the
• 53:22
  summer if Bitcoin if Bitcoin maintains these levels during
• 53:27
  the. Summer.
• 53:30
  Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. If Bitcoin maintains these
• 53:32
  levels over the summer, I'm feeling very optimistic about
• 53:39
  I'm feeling very optimistic about whether Bitcoins bottom
• 53:43
  has whether Bitcoin has put in a bottom or not Big time, Eric.
• 53:48
  'S in the chat. What up bro?
• 53:50
  Now listen, so that's really what I'm paying attention to is,
• 53:54
  is Bitcoin going to maintain between the 80 and 60K region
• 53:59
  over the summer? If it does, then I think the
• 54:03
  bottom has been in and now going back to the comment before I had
• 54:07
  to step out, James says even though Bitcoin is below the 200
• 54:11
  DMA, which by definition is bearish, Bitcoin has kept itself
• 54:15
  above the STH cost basis and true market mean.
• 54:18
  Also by the way, I think the 200 day moving average right now is
• 54:23
  like 58 or 60 K let. Me.
• 54:27
  See, I no, I think it's 83. No, it's not.
• 54:33
  You've had cycle's over and we have all time highs this year.
• 54:43
  I mean, I don't know how much I believe I, I don't know how how
• 54:46
  strongly or whatever, but I will tell you this.
• 54:48
  Here we go, 200 day moving average which is in blue.
• 54:52
  I will tell you this, it's 83 two.
• 54:54
  If this does happen, if this does happen, what he's saying,
• 54:58
  which is the bottom is in the four year cycle is over and
• 55:01
  we're hitting the 100K region by the end of the year, I mean at.
• 55:05
  That point. We are in completely uncharted
• 55:10
  territory dude. 190K by end of the year?
• 55:14
  That would be absolutely bonkers in my opinion.
• 55:20
  So let's see what happens, and I'm here.
• 55:25
  For all time high by end of year.
• 55:27
  You're calling it. It will do, without a doubt.
• 55:30
  You're calling it. I like.
• 55:31
  I know it's wrong last year, but this is my year.
• 55:35
  This is my year now. This is my year anyways guys, we
• 55:39
  still have a ton of news to get to.
• 55:42
  Colombia wants to mine Bitcoin with surplus renewable energy.
• 55:47
  Another country, Max Keiser's The global hash war is
• 55:52
  accelerating. You have another country now, a
• 55:54
  Latin American country that is basically saying hey, we have a
• 55:59
  ton of surplus renewable energy. Hey, against all the Bitcoin
• 56:03
  mining haters, they weren't being very honest and specific
• 56:08
  on what type of energy Bitcoin mining uses.
• 56:12
  It wouldn't make sense to set up a mining facility in the middle
• 56:15
  of Manhattan, would it? You have to obviously mine where
• 56:19
  the electricity is cheap and it's basic supply and demand.
• 56:24
  If there's a ton of supply, the electricity should be cheap.
• 56:28
  And where is there a ton of excess electricity?
• 56:31
  Again, it's these renewable energy sources that tend to be
• 56:35
  in isolated locations. Therefore, it doesn't really
• 56:40
  make sense for them to get transported over long distances.
• 56:44
  And that's where the Bitcoin miners come in and they buy that
• 56:47
  excess power. Now, if you're a government and
• 56:51
  you're sitting on again, a a giant hydroelectric dam and
• 56:55
  you're only using 20 to 30% of that hydroelectric capacity,
• 56:59
  that extra capacity you can use to mine Bitcoin, which again is
• 57:04
  more revenue for the local government.
• 57:07
  It creates jobs, it's a win win situation and Colombia is seeing
• 57:13
  what Paraguay is doing and it looks like they want to follow
• 57:16
  in the footsteps. But again, this is just a
• 57:18
  headline. Let's see if they actually
• 57:20
  follow through with it. Guys, we're going to be right
• 57:22
  back after the break in just a little bit.
• 57:25
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  simply all right ladies and gentlemen, we are back.
• 59:15
  This is the articles referring to Colombia wants to mine
• 59:19
  Bitcoin with surplus renewable energy.
• 59:22
  The president of Colombia said Caribbean's coast, the
• 59:25
  Columbia's Caribbean coast, could host Bitcoin mining
• 59:28
  facilities powered by surplus renewable energy, following a
• 59:32
  path similar to Paraguay. So, I mean, is this surprising
• 59:39
  at all? No, not at all.
• 59:42
  Here it says a 2024 World Bank report.
• 59:47
  Opti, could you cut to you for a second?
• 59:51
  Thank you. A 2024 World Bank report found
• 59:54
  Columbia generates as much as 75% of its electricity from
• 59:59
  renewable sources, more than twice the global average.
• 1:00:02
  The Caribbean coast in particular, has wind and solar
• 1:00:05
  capacity that the country has barely tapped commercially.
• 1:00:09
  This is what I was talking about earlier, guys.
• 1:00:14
  And we actually simply actually had the privilege of being able
• 1:00:17
  to go to Itapu Dam to see. One of our partners facilities
• 1:00:23
  getting built out, which was of course Hive Digital
• 1:00:26
  Technologies, they just, they built out these facilities and
• 1:00:30
  it was so crazy in like record time.
• 1:00:32
  It was so amazing to see. And I got to tour the Itapu Dam.
• 1:00:36
  And basically the Itapu Dam is its massive dam and it's sitting
• 1:00:41
  on the border of Brazil and Paraguay and Brazil and Paraguay
• 1:00:44
  essentially share the resources of the of the dam.
• 1:00:48
  The thing is the dam is so isolated that there's it has so
• 1:00:53
  much capacity, it's just not being used.
• 1:00:58
  And this is where Bitcoin miners come in, because Bitcoin miners
• 1:01:01
  essentially, they can be flown anywhere, they can be taken
• 1:01:05
  anywhere around the world, They can be plugged in.
• 1:01:07
  They don't really require a very fast Internet connection and
• 1:01:12
  boom, all of a sudden that an excess energy that was otherwise
• 1:01:17
  going to waste, it wasn't being used, it wasn't being utilized,
• 1:01:21
  is now being transformed into sweet, sweet Satoshi's.
• 1:01:24
  That's a win for HIVE. Obviously, That's a win for the
• 1:01:28
  government of Paraguay. That's a win for the local
• 1:01:30
  communities. Electrical infrastructure gets
• 1:01:34
  built out locally. The government gets more tax
• 1:01:38
  revenue and of course hive benefits, right, because they're
• 1:01:41
  mining more Bitcoin. So this is this what you're
• 1:01:46
  seeing, ladies and gentlemen, is going to continue to accelerate
• 1:01:51
  all around the world. And what it's going to do is
• 1:01:53
  it's going to make the global energy grid more efficient
• 1:01:58
  because all of a sudden any type of cheap and, and it has to be
• 1:02:03
  a, a, a stable jurisdiction, of course, but any cheap source of
• 1:02:08
  power that's not being used, eventually people are going to
• 1:02:12
  realize, hey, wait a second, we can turn that into Bitcoin and
• 1:02:16
  we have nothing to lose, right? So this is what the government
• 1:02:19
  of, of Paraguay. And again, the one of the most
• 1:02:21
  expensive things to do with Bitcoin mining is building out
• 1:02:25
  the infrastructure itself. But if you already have a dam
• 1:02:28
  there, if you already have all this extra, you know, renewable
• 1:02:34
  energy that's not being tapped into, it says it right there.
• 1:02:37
  The Caribbean coast in particular has wind and solar
• 1:02:39
  capacity. The country is barely tapped
• 1:02:41
  commercially like it's an it's an absolute no brainer.
• 1:02:46
  It's a win win for everyone. And This is why we went so hard
• 1:02:50
  when the New York Times was attacking Bitcoin.
• 1:02:54
  Why am I hearing myself when they doctored the foot, the
• 1:02:59
  picture that that infamous New York Times article and then
• 1:03:02
  Pierre Richard, I think he was with Riot at the time, came out
• 1:03:05
  and like just basically was trolling them because they were
• 1:03:07
  making the case that Bitcoin mining was generating all these
• 1:03:10
  CO2 emissions. And that's not true.
• 1:03:13
  They use electricity. That's true.
• 1:03:16
  But what are these miners actually, you know, like hot
• 1:03:21
  air, hot air and noise. You could say hot air and noise,
• 1:03:25
  right? You could say those are the only
• 1:03:26
  two things that they there. There's an that that, that, that
• 1:03:29
  they output, right? So this is an absolute no
• 1:03:32
  brainer. And this is going to
• 1:03:33
  fundamentally change the world. And it's going to be a win win
• 1:03:36
  for everybody. It's going to be a win win for
• 1:03:38
  the local communities. It's going to be a win win for
• 1:03:40
  the governments. It's going to be a win win for
• 1:03:43
  the companies that go in there and develop these sites.
• 1:03:47
  So I'm super glad to see that it's going in this direction.
• 1:03:52
  And again, Paraguay really, you know, being the vanguard in this
• 1:03:56
  and really setting, you know, the example, this is how this is
• 1:04:00
  going to happen everywhere, ladies and gentlemen, like the
• 1:04:02
  next 10 to 20 years, any site that is not tapped into, any
• 1:04:09
  site that has stranded excess energy or excess energy
• 1:04:15
  capability, they're going to end up mining Bitcoin.
• 1:04:19
  I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm going to go on record saying that because
• 1:04:23
  it's so obvious. Why would, why would you just
• 1:04:26
  have that empty? This is the reason, by the way,
• 1:04:29
  that that China had so much mining, by the way, because they
• 1:04:33
  had so much excess energy because of the dams that they
• 1:04:37
  built out because it's like kind of like this, like centrally
• 1:04:39
  plans. It's a semi, you know, it's like
• 1:04:42
  a semi free market semi centrally planned.
• 1:04:46
  But anyways, had all this excess energy capability.
• 1:04:51
  And that's why China ended up having so much of the hash rate.
• 1:04:54
  And then they banned that they they banned Bitcoin mining.
• 1:04:56
  By the way, 15% of the hash rate still is in China.
• 1:05:00
  So it wasn't a completely effective ban, but the hash rate
• 1:05:04
  decentralized in the process. The hash rate is higher than
• 1:05:08
  it's ever been, continues to hit records.
• 1:05:12
  And now countries are realizing, wait a second, we can turn this
• 1:05:16
  excess energy into Bitcoin, which is money, right?
• 1:05:20
  So win, win, right? So as much as the legacy media
• 1:05:23
  had such a problem with Bitcoin mining and they they paid for
• 1:05:27
  these campaigns and you know, it, it, it was like really like,
• 1:05:31
  you know, it was a propaganda war trying to attack and
• 1:05:35
  demonize Bitcoin mining. I wonder why?
• 1:05:39
  But you know, ultimately free market forces win eventually.
• 1:05:43
  You know, propaganda could only do so much.
• 1:05:46
  What they're working with is coercion, manipulation and
• 1:05:49
  propaganda. And what we're working with is
• 1:05:50
  incentives. And I think incentives always
• 1:05:53
  rule the day, win the day. So then the next piece of news
• 1:06:00
  is this is a post by Eleanor Tourette and she is a journalist
• 1:06:07
  and host of Crypto America. She was formerly at Fox
• 1:06:11
  Business. She says new a divide is forming
• 1:06:14
  in bank land over the yield compromise.
• 1:06:17
  Big banks with consumer facing arms are taking issue while
• 1:06:20
  those without appear more comfortable with the final
• 1:06:23
  language. Some community banks all are
• 1:06:25
  also signalling support, though ICBA, which stands for
• 1:06:30
  Independent Community Bank, which represents them in
• 1:06:33
  Washington, is voicing concerns following my conversation with a
• 1:06:36
  larger bank that shares the concerns of the trades.
• 1:06:39
  The core issue is that the language is drafted too narrowly
• 1:06:42
  and still leaves room for crypto firms to work around the
• 1:06:44
  restriction. In their view, it's not a true
• 1:06:48
  compromise because it doesn't eliminate yield completely, it
• 1:06:51
  changes how it's offered. So again, this goes back to what
• 1:06:55
  is the main thing stopping the Clarity Act?
• 1:06:58
  The main thing stopping the Clarity Act is that the banks
• 1:07:00
  fear that consumers are going to withdraw their deposits and put
• 1:07:06
  it on exchanges or anything that's offering yield because
• 1:07:11
  ultimately these banks are not offering interest on their
• 1:07:14
  deposits. Like you can play with the
• 1:07:16
  wording, you can play with the yield word, you can play with
• 1:07:18
  the reward word, you can play with the interest word.
• 1:07:21
  But ultimately it's interest, right?
• 1:07:23
  The big banks right now, if you have a deposit and let's say,
• 1:07:27
  you know, one of the big banks in, in the United States,
• 1:07:29
  they're not paying you interest on that, even though they're
• 1:07:32
  making money off of your money, right?
• 1:07:35
  And This is why the banks fear the, the, the Clarity Act.
• 1:07:40
  This is why they fear a lot of these exchanges that are
• 1:07:44
  offering whatever you want to call it, interest yields,
• 1:07:48
  rewards, whatever you want to call it, right?
• 1:07:51
  They don't want people taking their deposits out.
• 1:07:54
  And I know some people already that don't even have accounts
• 1:07:58
  with the legacy banking system. They're already using the new
• 1:08:03
  apps, they're already using Cash App, they're already using
• 1:08:07
  Coinbase, they're already using XY and Z as an alternative to
• 1:08:12
  the traditional banking system. Because again, like, why should
• 1:08:16
  I pay $15.00 a month for you to hold my money and you're not
• 1:08:19
  even going to pay me interest on that?
• 1:08:21
  So the banks aren't willing to compete in the free market.
• 1:08:25
  They're trying to use Washington to try to get their way, which,
• 1:08:28
  you know, I don't think it's very competitive at all, right?
• 1:08:32
  Which again leads to a deeper question like is this really a
• 1:08:36
  free market? Like, are the banks really
• 1:08:38
  interested in competition? Because this doesn't really look
• 1:08:41
  like competitive behavior. This looks more like cartel like
• 1:08:44
  behavior to be honest with you. So anyways, quick update on the
• 1:08:48
  Clarity Act. Let's see if it gets past.
• 1:08:49
  They are running out of time. We are burning daylight.
• 1:08:54
  The Democrats most likely will take back the House in November.
• 1:08:57
  It's a kind of a 5050 in the Senate.
• 1:08:59
  If and when that happens, the, there's no chance the Clarity
• 1:09:04
  Act passes until at least 20-30. And then in 20-30, that depends
• 1:09:10
  if Republicans hold the presidency, if Republicans hold
• 1:09:14
  the House, and if Republicans hold the Senate, right.
• 1:09:17
  And I hope my, my big hope out of all of this is I hope that it
• 1:09:21
  stops being a partisan issue. And I hope that it becomes
• 1:09:25
  bipartisan because ultimately Bitcoin is for anyone.
• 1:09:29
  Bitcoin is for people that are ideologically on the left and
• 1:09:33
  people. Bitcoin is for people that are
• 1:09:35
  ideologically on the right. It helps everybody.
• 1:09:38
  Bitcoin is money for the people. It helps you save and again, you
• 1:09:42
  don't get hurt by the inflation tax, so to speak, which
• 1:09:46
  disproportionately affects the lower and middle classes the
• 1:09:51
  most, I might add. So anyways, that's my take on
• 1:09:54
  that. Can I, can I add a little
• 1:09:55
  context on this because because I brought it up to the not, not
• 1:09:58
  on that second part, the Clarity Act stuff.
• 1:09:59
  So guys, if you remember, I think it was Monday.
• 1:10:02
  Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was Monday that I, I gave you the
• 1:10:06
  update over over the weekend. It seemed as if we finally got
• 1:10:11
  the quote UN quote compromise on the Clarity Act.
• 1:10:13
  It seemed at least from all coverage that we were getting,
• 1:10:18
  that the banks had finally compromise on the stable coin
• 1:10:21
  reward yield. That seemed like they were good
• 1:10:23
  on the wording. We got a lot of the people in
• 1:10:27
  the quote crypto industry, particularly like Coinbase, they
• 1:10:31
  were like, look, we're not entirely happy with the
• 1:10:34
  compromise, but it's enough to get the whole bill through.
• 1:10:39
  And then yesterday, later in the day, actually I think it was
• 1:10:44
  Monday night, after I covered this, we got basically this
• 1:10:50
  update here where apparently the banks came up and they were
• 1:10:58
  like, actually we're not happy with this wording here.
• 1:11:00
  This compromise isn't good enough.
• 1:11:02
  We got to, we got to change this whole thing.
• 1:11:05
  And remember, at least from the reporting that we got at least
• 1:11:09
  the latest update that we got on yesterday, no wait, sorry, on
• 1:11:15
  Monday, is that the markup was going to happen on next Monday.
• 1:11:26
  And now and on that timeline, they were saying July or yeah,
• 1:11:33
  like middle July. It's going to pass now with this
• 1:11:36
  new controversy here that the banks aren't happy.
• 1:11:40
  I'm hearing them say that it's going to happen by August, which
• 1:11:43
  is exactly what I keep saying. It seems like it's just
• 1:11:47
  constantly being delayed. And now in the context of its
• 1:11:51
  what, 5 months basically of arguing over this Clarity Act
• 1:11:56
  going through, it seems like this might be the tactic that
• 1:12:00
  they're literally just trying to run out the clock before the
• 1:12:05
  midterms pop up. So who knows?
• 1:12:09
  Obviously, as I keep covering, everyone's expecting if this
• 1:12:12
  passes, then a lot of capital is going to flow in.
• 1:12:15
  It seems like the update we got on Monday or over the weekend,
• 1:12:19
  like, oh, we're we're going to get it through this week.
• 1:12:22
  Now we just, we start again. We've had another roadblock.
• 1:12:25
  So I, I guess at this point we shouldn't even be holding our
• 1:12:28
  breath. It might pass, probably.
• 1:12:33
  Not, but let's see. Let's see what happens.
• 1:12:35
  All right, guys, we're going to be right back right after the
• 1:12:37
  break. I want to give a shout out to
• 1:12:39
  our partner Hive Digital Technologies.
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  mining footprint and channels that same scale into high
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  At Hive, you've got dual engines, Bitcoin and AI humming,
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  roaring, accelerating and unison.
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  infrastructure. You can catch the latest buzz at
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  All right, we are back. We are back.
• 1:14:18
  All right, guys, let's do a debrief of yeah, yeah, yeah, you
• 1:14:21
  know. You guys are probably sick of me
• 1:14:23
  all last week losing my mind hearing imaginary hammers up
• 1:14:27
  here, but I actually we haven't even talked really about the.
• 1:14:31
  Conference at. All like, I don't even know what
• 1:14:34
  happened over there. So Nico, debrief on the
• 1:14:36
  conference. What's your thoughts this year?
• 1:14:38
  Yeah, so I mean, look, first of all, shout out to the Bitcoin
• 1:14:41
  conference team. They always do such a great job,
• 1:14:45
  you know, putting it together and.
• 1:14:47
  Wait, you see our boy Nick? Of course.
• 1:14:51
  And shout. Out to Nick.
• 1:14:52
  And yeah, he's a homie. And yeah, it was, it was a great
• 1:14:57
  conference like always. They do such a great job, you
• 1:15:01
  know, on the floor and on the programming.
• 1:15:04
  I got to speak on stage regarding self custody, which
• 1:15:08
  was really cool with a couple other Bitcoiners, which was
• 1:15:12
  fantastic. I got to interview a bunch of
• 1:15:14
  people from the entire industry will be dropping those
• 1:15:17
  interviews on X throughout the week.
• 1:15:19
  But the biggest take away from the conference for me was, you
• 1:15:25
  know, the bear market conferences.
• 1:15:27
  It really. That was going to be my
• 1:15:29
  question. Did it feel like a bear market
• 1:15:30
  conference? Yes and no.
• 1:15:34
  OK, So yes, because like obviously there wasn't as many
• 1:15:39
  people as the year before or there wasn't as many people as
• 1:15:41
  like when Trump obviously spoke at the conference.
• 1:15:46
  But you guys have to understand that the market conditions were
• 1:15:48
  were way different back then. However, there was a lot of
• 1:15:56
  people, there was a lot of people and the people that went
• 1:16:00
  are people that really, really believe in Bitcoin because if
• 1:16:04
  you're going to a Bitcoin conference when the price is
• 1:16:07
  down, I saw Mike Cernovich was there.
• 1:16:10
  We got to interview Tristan Thompson, right NBA champion,
• 1:16:15
  which was really cool. The Simply booth was poppin.
• 1:16:19
  Shout out to the Bitcoin Magazine team for for for for
• 1:16:23
  hooking that up. And the our zoomers for.
• 1:16:27
  Shout out to the zoomers for holding it down and shout out to
• 1:16:30
  Weinekis as well. So we didn't bring as much as
• 1:16:34
  the team this year, which I kind of regret because I called Opti
• 1:16:39
  the first day and I was like, dude, how do we set up these
• 1:16:40
  lights? Yeah.
• 1:16:42
  OK. Look, Full disclosure, I do
• 1:16:44
  everything at these conferences because just a pretty face.
• 1:16:48
  So it's it's, it's A tag team effort, OK, It's A tag team
• 1:16:52
  effort. It's AI.
• 1:16:54
  Don't know, you just exposed yourself bro.
• 1:16:56
  It's A tag team effort between the entire team.
• 1:16:59
  But yes, I tend to do the interviews back-to-back to
• 1:17:02
  back-to-back, and then Opti helps produce it.
• 1:17:05
  Wow, those roles? Really.
• 1:17:07
  Lessening my role. Those roles were were were
• 1:17:09
  changed this year where the zoomers really Bryson was
• 1:17:13
  producing and of course, shout out to Daniel as well, who was
• 1:17:17
  holding down the simply booth. So it was a great conference
• 1:17:20
  overall, but I think the biggest take away was the Jack Mahler's
• 1:17:24
  announcement of the Bitcoin company.
• 1:17:27
  Actually, I, I, I brought it up and I don't mean to cut you off,
• 1:17:30
  but another big announcement coming out of this.
• 1:17:33
  It was actually multiple ones. It was I I think like Jack
• 1:17:36
  Mahler's and Jack Dorsey. The Jacks took over the
• 1:17:39
  conference cause Jack Dorsey's the new bit key and the Did you
• 1:17:44
  see the Square payments in person?
• 1:17:47
  Yeah, and I have to, I actually brought a bit key.
• 1:17:50
  The new, you got the new one. I got the new bit key.
• 1:17:52
  I have to show it to you guys. But yeah, you go to bit key dot
• 1:17:55
  worlds I have. To update, I think those were
• 1:17:56
  the best. I think I have to redo the ad
• 1:17:58
  but Jack. Squared took over the bit, key
• 1:18:01
  the bit. Key The new bit key is.
• 1:18:03
  It's fantastic. I haven't even seen it has a
• 1:18:07
  screen on the back. We're gonna we're gonna do a
• 1:18:09
  reveal on tomorrow, tomorrow show.
• 1:18:11
  I have to update the ad, but yeah, it was, it was a, it was a
• 1:18:15
  great conference overall. If someone said don't talk about
• 1:18:18
  the conference, we just started dumping.
• 1:18:20
  It was a great, it was a great conference overall.
• 1:18:23
  It was a great time. I I got to race super cars,
• 1:18:25
  which was really cool. I, I I was showing them.
• 1:18:28
  I was showing them. Which was super, super cool.
• 1:18:31
  I got to race a Corvette, like a, a Corvette supercar.
• 1:18:34
  Like it's like not street legal. It's like only meant for race
• 1:18:37
  tracks. And it was so funny on the, on
• 1:18:41
  the like my like the instructor that I had, which was awesome,
• 1:18:45
  was like, you know, like you're going really fast and you're,
• 1:18:48
  you're it's like a it's like a technical course.
• 1:18:51
  So like, you know, he's like brake, brake, you know, like
• 1:18:53
  change the shift. Wait, is he like in your ear or
• 1:18:55
  is he like he's like he's in your ear, He's in your ear.
• 1:18:57
  He's not like you're wearing a headphone, you're wearing a
• 1:18:59
  he's. Like brake, brake break.
• 1:19:01
  And on the last lap I just ignored him and I just.
• 1:19:05
  Crashed. No, I was, I was like drifting
• 1:19:08
  and I was like going like this with the wheel and like I was
• 1:19:10
  having a whole lot of fun. But yeah, man, that was that was
• 1:19:14
  fantastic. So overall, it was a great
• 1:19:16
  conference, lots of signal this year.
• 1:19:18
  Every conference is good, man. Every conference is good.
• 1:19:21
  If you're trying to get a job in the industry, if you're just
• 1:19:24
  trying to hang out with fellow Bitcoiners, if you're trying to
• 1:19:26
  meet your favorite Bitcoiners like perhaps the ones that
• 1:19:29
  written books, the ones that your favorite podcasters, these
• 1:19:32
  conferences are the place to go because that's where you're
• 1:19:34
  gonna get to meet them in the flesh, in person.
• 1:19:36
  Wait not not to dox one of our zoomers.
• 1:19:39
  Specifically, specifically the bear market conferences are some
• 1:19:42
  of the best because there's less people.
• 1:19:44
  So those people that you wanna meet are not as overwhelmed.
• 1:19:47
  And I got to say when I did my panel and I did my panel on
• 1:19:52
  industry day. So industry day is usually a
• 1:19:54
  little bit more quiet because it's not GA, it's not GA day.
• 1:19:57
  So it's not general admission day, It's not as packed.
• 1:20:00
  And after my panel, what like broke my heart.
• 1:20:03
  Like I I could not believe it. No one listened.
• 1:20:07
  When I, when I finished the panel, there was like there was
• 1:20:12
  a line of like 10 or 15 people that wanted to say hi and.
• 1:20:20
  Simply fans. That was crazy.
• 1:20:21
  Simply family. Simply fam.
• 1:20:23
  I took selfies. With all of them.
• 1:20:25
  Thank you guys so much for your support.
• 1:20:27
  Like your messages, like I, I, I almost broke.
• 1:20:31
  Down. Wait, they actually were nice to
• 1:20:33
  you? I almost.
• 1:20:34
  I almost broke. They're like, they're like, I
• 1:20:36
  know Athi's hard on you. Maybe that's for stick.
• 1:20:38
  But Nico, I want to let you know that I love you.
• 1:20:41
  No dude, this is how I show love is I make fun of my friends.
• 1:20:46
  It was, it was so heartfelt because again, like you finish a
• 1:20:50
  panel, usually you just walk off stage and you go back to the
• 1:20:53
  booth and you go back to what you're doing working.
• 1:20:55
  And there was just, you know, I was like, I think it was like 10
• 1:20:59
  or 15 people that literally wanted to meet me, say hello,
• 1:21:03
  talk about the show, say hi to Opti, you know, say hi to
• 1:21:06
  Sophie, say hi to Rustin, say hi to Dante, say hi to Hurley, say
• 1:21:09
  hi to Oceans. Oceans spoke at the conference
• 1:21:12
  as well, which is really cool. And that to me, like, you know,
• 1:21:17
  like literally like, like I, I wanted to cry because again,
• 1:21:21
  like what we see on our end guys, is we see the comments
• 1:21:25
  section. And you guys just make.
• 1:21:26
  Fun of us, which Opti is like really like lively on but like
• 1:21:31
  what we don't like and I see them them amount of people that
• 1:21:34
  are watching and it's a lot of people like this would like I
• 1:21:37
  met you in that line thank you like shout out man, shout out
• 1:21:40
  you Maria. It was it was great and it broke
• 1:21:45
  my heart, man like it like in a good way, because I was like I
• 1:21:49
  finally got to put a face to the number on the screen.
• 1:21:52
  No it. It it made you tear up because
• 1:21:54
  you, you, you remember that not everyone hates you.
• 1:22:00
  No, I'm trolling. I'm trolling.
• 1:22:01
  What I will say is like. Yeah, it always does it.
• 1:22:06
  That's the best part. About it, it felt real like I, I
• 1:22:08
  got to like right now we have, you know, more than five 600
• 1:22:13
  people watching across all the platforms.
• 1:22:16
  That's just a number on a screen like we don't know what that is
• 1:22:19
  right. Like it's just a number.
• 1:22:21
  So, but if you add up that number, like if you think about
• 1:22:24
  it like especially on, like if we have a show that pops off
• 1:22:26
  that day, it's like thousands of people watching us live.
• 1:22:31
  Like it feels good. Opt in are like, yo, this is a
• 1:22:34
  great show and we're talking to to ourselves in the background,
• 1:22:37
  but we don't actually like it's just, it's just a number on the
• 1:22:41
  screen. Like we don't actually know.
• 1:22:43
  And see, I was saying it on Friday.
• 1:22:45
  I'm like, like, you know, my imaginary friend on the other
• 1:22:49
  side of this camera, Like I, I don't see you.
• 1:22:51
  And they're like, damn, we're not even real anymore.
• 1:22:54
  So it, it was great to see you guys in person and that really
• 1:23:00
  meant a lot to me because I got to put a face to the numbers
• 1:23:05
  that that we see on the back end, which is the amount of
• 1:23:07
  people watching. So thank you guys for coming up
• 1:23:10
  to me saying hi. I love taking pictures with you
• 1:23:14
  and, and talking to you guys about the show.
• 1:23:16
  We wouldn't be here without you guys.
• 1:23:18
  So it really, really meant the world to me and the team.
• 1:23:20
  So thank you for that. That, that was that was one of
• 1:23:23
  the highlights of, of, of my conference.
• 1:23:25
  So. And, and I just, I just want to
• 1:23:28
  add one thing we we always say this about the conferences is,
• 1:23:34
  you know, Nico says it constantly.
• 1:23:36
  If you want to get a job in the industry, you go to the
• 1:23:38
  conference. Literally Nico and I wouldn't be
• 1:23:41
  here if it wasn't for what was that, 2022?
• 1:23:43
  Bit block. Boom, yeah.
• 1:23:45
  Well, bit block boom is when we like became friends.
• 1:23:48
  But was it? I think 2022 at Miami 2022 is
• 1:23:53
  when you're like yo, Opti join simply and I'm like bet.
• 1:23:57
  And this year, well, rather last year we hired one of our zoomers
• 1:24:01
  from the conference. He was literally volunteering at
• 1:24:04
  the conference and he just happened to be right by our
• 1:24:07
  booth and he was like, Oh, dude, you guys are the simply guys.
• 1:24:10
  Like I love you guys. And you know, we we just,
• 1:24:14
  anytime we see a zoomer. We're like yo.
• 1:24:17
  Do you want a job like we might have a role for a Zoomer in our
• 1:24:20
  company And he's like really like, all right, cool dude.
• 1:24:24
  And we're like, cool, e-mail us afterwards.
• 1:24:27
  And, and then we hired him and he's one of our rising stars at
• 1:24:31
  our company. And now from one year ago, he
• 1:24:34
  was volunteering at the Bitcoin conference.
• 1:24:37
  And now this year he's at the conference with a Bitcoin
• 1:24:40
  company. And I was, I was joking with
• 1:24:41
  him. I'm like, yo, how's it feel to
• 1:24:43
  be on this side of, of the, you know, Bitcoin conference working
• 1:24:46
  for a company this year? And he's like, it's surreal.
• 1:24:49
  Like it, it's actually crazy. Last year I was volunteering
• 1:24:52
  just because I wanted to help the Bitcoin conference, helping
• 1:24:55
  Bitcoin in any way possible. And now I work for a company on
• 1:24:59
  the other side and I'll mention. Too, like, part of like the, the
• 1:25:02
  Zoomer, like the, the Zoomers is they got to see the interviews.
• 1:25:08
  They got to see the interviews with like some of the
• 1:25:10
  heavyweights in our industry. And you know, again, it's, it's
• 1:25:14
  very different when you see someone on stage and, and
• 1:25:16
  they're talking. But like, you know, the simply
• 1:25:18
  booth was like it. It wasn't small, but it was like
• 1:25:21
  very it was very homey. So Nico in a good mood.
• 1:25:27
  Opti time to strike and demand. I don't even know how to say
• 1:25:29
  that. It's how you say pizza.
• 1:25:31
  Oh, pizza party. There we go.
• 1:25:33
  Pizza party at work? Maybe we should do a pizza party
• 1:25:36
  on Friday. Pizza.
• 1:25:37
  Nah, we're we're getting sushi. Bro, you still owe me that sushi
• 1:25:40
  date. OK, so you know, it was, it was,
• 1:25:46
  it was great to see Daniel's face, just like watching.
• 1:25:49
  I wasn't gonna dox him like that, but I was.
• 1:25:51
  Watching, I mean, everyone knows Daniel.
• 1:25:53
  I don't think so, but whatever it is, it was.
• 1:25:55
  Great to see Daniel's face when we were doing these.
• 1:25:57
  Interviews at four times and. Then he was, and then he was in
• 1:26:00
  the, he was in the booth with the Tristan Thompson interview,
• 1:26:04
  which was like, you know. Probably.
• 1:26:07
  What's it the Lakers? I don't know basketball.
• 1:26:09
  Like that? I think so.
• 1:26:10
  I, I, I know, I know that he's a champion.
• 1:26:12
  Yeah, yeah, I don't know anyways.
• 1:26:13
  Speaking of conferences, we have an amazing conference coming up.
• 1:26:18
  You definitely don't want to miss it.
• 1:26:20
  The Mining Disrupt Conference, July 2020, first through the
• 1:26:23
  23rd in Miami, FL. This is the largest Bitcoin
• 1:26:29
  mining conference on planet earth.
• 1:26:32
  You definitely don't want to miss it again if you want to get
• 1:26:34
  a job in the industry. If you want to know more about
• 1:26:37
  Bitcoin mining, you definitely don't want to miss Mining
• 1:26:41
  Disrupt again. It's July 21st through the 23rd
• 1:26:46
  in Miami, FL 2026. You definitely don't want to
• 1:26:50
  miss it. If you use the link down below
• 1:26:53
  and you use the promo code, I think you'll get 20% off your
• 1:26:56
  tickets. And of course, the simply
• 1:26:58
  Bitcoin crew will be there. We will be live streaming the
• 1:27:01
  conference. We will have a news desk as.
• 1:27:03
  Well, am I getting out of the basement for this one?
• 1:27:05
  Bro it's in Miami, dude. So it's in Miami?
• 1:27:08
  Baby. We don't have to, we don't have
• 1:27:10
  to get on a flight. So and I think, I think we'll,
• 1:27:14
  we'll try to do a show from the floor.
• 1:27:16
  I think we we pulled that off in Texas, I think.
• 1:27:20
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. We pulled that off in Texas.
• 1:27:23
  So we we will, we will try to do a show from the Bitcoin from the
• 1:27:28
  mining disrupts floor. And of course, we'll stream it
• 1:27:32
  to you guys so you guys can see the latest and greatest on
• 1:27:34
  what's happening in the Bitcoin mining industry.
• 1:27:37
  So many exciting things, so many announcements.
• 1:27:40
  Don't want to miss Mining Disrupt July 21st through the
• 1:27:45
  23rd in Miami, FL Get your tickets now.
• 1:27:48
  The promo is in the video slash podcast description.
• 1:27:52
  All right, everybody, happy to be back in the hot seat.
• 1:27:56
  I hope I didn't butcher too much of today's show.
• 1:27:59
  Getting back into the flow of things.
• 1:28:01
  The conference really tough. Your reading is always
• 1:28:04
  butchering. But that's I don't think that's
• 1:28:06
  going to change. But you know, it's back.
• 1:28:09
  It's good to be back in the in the hot seat, guys.
• 1:28:14
  Might have to. We'll see you guys tomorrow for
• 1:28:16
  a brand new episode of Simply Bitcoin Live.
• 1:28:18
  Thank you guys so much for tuning in and for the ones that
• 1:28:22
  I saw you guys at the conference.
• 1:28:23
  It was so great to meet you guys.
• 1:28:25
  Thank you so much for supporting us.
• 1:28:27
  We wouldn't be here without you. See you guys later.
• 1:28:29
  Like the show? Subscribe, share with your
• 1:28:31
  friends, and we'll see you tomorrow.
• 1:28:33
  Today's episode was brought to you by bitcoinwell.com, a
• 1:28:36
  Bitcoin only platform on a mission to enable financial
• 1:28:39
  independence.