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Legally Brunette: The Menendez Brothers & Jillian Michaels · Legally Brunette

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hi guys, welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I'll
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: be your host Emily Simpson and oh oh you need
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: to set up and Shane and Shane. First of all,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: we are going to go into the Menindez Brothers because
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: obviously they've had a big week this week. They were
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: both went up before the Pearl Boards, and I think
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: maybe we should just do a little little background just
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: to see, you know, just to cover how we got
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: to this point. We've covered Meninda's many many times. Are
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: actually our very first episode for Legally Brunette was on
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: the Menindez Brothers, and so if you haven't listened to it,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: go back and find it. I think it was a
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: really good episode because I had done so much research
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: and read the book written by Robert Rand and studied
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: as much as possible, so.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Every video, watched, every possible house.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: I went to their house, I stalked them. I've done
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: everything possible that I could to know as much as
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: I could. Anyway, so they are on they went before
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: the parole board this week, and that the parole board
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: came about because they were on a two track system.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: If you guys remember we've talked about this before. They
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: had a habeas petition that was basically based on new
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: evidence that came out later, which was a letter from
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: a cousin of Eric's corroborating that there was sexual abuse
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: in the relationship with Jose. And then there was also
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: the boy, the guy from the Menudo band, that came
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: forward that said that he had been sexually abused by
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Jose as well. So those two pieces of new evidence
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: put them on track for a possible new hearing, new trial,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: and that was the habeas route that is still ongoing.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: This other route that led to them being in front
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: of the parole board was the resentencing, and that was
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: in front of Judge Ryan, and I don't remember the
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: exact date, but it was I don't know, maybe a
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: month or so ago or a couple of months. I
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: don't have time flies, I can't even keep track. But
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Judge Ryan re sentenced the Menendez brothers to instead of
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: life without parole, to life with the eligibility for paroles.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: So that's how they've ended up. From fifty years to life,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: it was fifty years to life with the eligibility for parole,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: which has now put them in front of the parole board.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: So Eric and separately, not together.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Not together. They have separate parole hearings. Lyles was yesterday,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Eric's was the day before, and I'm sure, as we
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: all know, just based upon the headlines and the news,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: both of them were denied parole. Let's talk about first
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: of all, which is an interesting thought, is because they
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: had separate parole hearings, one could have been paroled and
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: one could have not, which would have been a really
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: probably i mean devastating scenario for them, as well as
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: an interesting scenario that one could have been paroled and
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: one could have stayed in prison. We know now that
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: didn't happen. They were both denied parole, So let's talk
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: about why they were denied.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: And they both had different not just different dates, but
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: they had different boards that they were in front of them.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: They did. They were both in different in front of
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: different parle boards, and each brother had a different commissioner
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: that was that was heading up the parle board. So
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of the issues with the denial was this
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: contraband that had to do with cell phones. So official
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: stress that such devices posed serious security risks in prisons,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: often tied to gang's drugs or violence. This is when
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: it had to do with Eric. Eric acknowledged that using
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: a phone to stay connected with his wife and for entertainment,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: which he likes to watch YouTube, listen to music, et cetera,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: and apparently also watch pornography. Lyle turned to phones when
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: he realized his communications with his wife and family. Even
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: though Lyle isn't married any longer. I believe he's now divorced.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: And then there was like a young girlfriend and we
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: got married.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: I think he's married. Toy did married and divorce in prison?
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I think maybe he was married twice. And then
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: there was like a young girlfriend that came and visited him.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: That was like from the UK. Anyway, that's a whole
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: nother podcast to the parole hearings. But he realized that
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: his communications with his wife and family were being monitored
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: and sold to tabloids. So he saw cell phones as
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: a privacy major in a way to stay in touch
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: with his wife during a stressful time in their marriage.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: So that was the reasoning that both of them gave
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: for using cell phones in prison. First of all, my
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: question is who how do they get the cell phone?
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: And who pays the bill?
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Well, someone on the outside pays the bill. I imagine, well,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: why not his wife? Yeah, so you think or maybe
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: maybe in the divorce proceedings he gets some type of
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: alimony and he uses it to pay the phone.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but he can't be paying his cell phone bill
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: from was he log on and pay a cell phone bill?
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Sure he has a cell phone, is a smartphone. He
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: probably has email and everything.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, you can Venmo and Jaelic probably Vene won
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: each other. You know.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: It just seems odd to me. But I mean, obviously
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: I've never been in prison, but it seems odd to me.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: I guess there's just I picture like someone's in prison
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: and that they're just being watched twenty four to seven.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: But I guess there are a lot of opportunities where
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: you can pull off a cell phone. Here's a cell
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: phone and do it on the download and people don't
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: know and all right. Also another reason that they were
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: denied bail was that there were many moments where they
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: were not considered model prisoners. Eric faced questions about associating
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: himself with a prison gang called the quote two fivers.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know what that means, but the number two
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: and the number five.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the two fivers and helping them with a tax scheme.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: In twenty thirteen, he claimed that he only did so
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: to survive the violent gang. He also used drugs and
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: alcohol in his very early years in prison, but noted
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: that he had been sober for more than a decade.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: I did read this in an article after his parole
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: was denied, because Eric was first, and I thought, how, now,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: how do you get involved in a tax fraud? Do
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: you pay taxes when you're in prison?
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Well, if you're married, I guess file married, but living separately, I.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Don't know.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Separately. Yeah, so I don't know.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I guess Eric was involved in some type of tax scheme.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: But again, I need a prison insider to come on
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: the podcast and answer these questions because I want to
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: know what it's like like for real, not just from
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: the outside reading articles, but I want to know. I
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: want to know the cell phone usage. I want to
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: know how a tax fraud scheme goes on in prison.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: I want to know if he's filing taxes. I want
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: to know all the things that does he have income.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: I did think it was good though that I mean,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: he's been sober for ten years. That's commendable.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Well, shouldn't he have been sober for thirty five years
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: or however long he's been.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: No He claims that he did use drugs and alcohol
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: in his early years in prison, but that he's been
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: sober for the past ten. Lyle's record was less severe,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: but still drew criticism from the commissioners, who said he
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: demonstrated quote anti social personality traits like deception, minimization, and
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: rule breaking that lie beneath that positive surface. You know,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: here's another question I have, and this is what I
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: thought when I read this, when they say he has
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: anti social personality. Whatever, he's been in prison for thirty
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: five years. He went into prison when he was like,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: you know, twenty one or something. I mean, wouldn't you
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: expect that someone that spent the last thirty five years
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: in their life maybe does suffer some type of anti.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: So he's very grumpy. He's grumpy, and he doesn't appreciate what.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: He doesn't show a lot of gratitude. I mean, it's
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: like I sometimes when I read these decisions and what
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: they're saying, you know, as far as his personality, I think, well,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: what kind of personality do you expect someone to have
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: after thirty five years of being locked up in prison.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: I would love to see, like a result of someone
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: that did get off after thirty years, and what was
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: it that they did, you mean.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: What was their personality like after they spent the day perfect?
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: They have a flawless record.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine. That was an good question and a
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: point I would like to make is anyone spending thirty
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: five years in prison, I can't imagine anyone would have
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: a flawless record and a pristine personality analysis the amount
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: of violence that you're dealing with, you probably have to
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: make a lot of decisions to stay alive. Possibly maybe
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: you have to make decisions or do things that you
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily do, but you have to survive. I think
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: you wake up and think, how am I gonna You might.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Get a fight, but you started it. But you started
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: as a proactive measure because they were going they're going
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: to attack you or something, or I got to set
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: the stand.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, I can't imagine that you can go through
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: thirty five years of prison without some type of mark
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: on your record, because I'm sure that you are put
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: into situations where you are forced to make decisions and
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: to act in ways where you're just surviving as opposed
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: to following rules. So I don't know how you know
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: feasible that is that someone just has a clean record
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: after all that time.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Even on the outside, one has a clean record.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you have antisocial personality too. Jan's like everybody,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: everybody's out of the house by nine pm.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: I'd probably be happier. The JEL set no responsibilities right.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: There were also concerns about the death of Kitty Menindaz
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: and this was something else I thought about before the
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: decisions came out. When we were when they had separate
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: parole hearings. I remember thinking, when it comes to separate
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: parole hearings, Lyle definitely acted differently the night of the
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: murders as opposed to Eric, because Lyle was the one
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: who well, they both went into the den and they
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: shot both of them. They both had shotguns. Lyle was
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: the one that left and went and reloaded and went
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: back and then shot his mom. So really, if you
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: want to look at the facts of the case and
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: maybe who was more culpable, you could have put that
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: on Lyle and then that would have maybe made a
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: difference in whether he was paroled or not, or whether
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Eric was or not. But anyway, it ended up being
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: that the panel pointed out that the way their mother,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Kitty Menendez, was killed, and how the brothers attempted to
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: cover up the murders afterward, describing those actions as callous
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: and troubling, and if you do know the case, and
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: also I said, we did a very in depth episode
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: on this, which was our first episode. You know, they
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: did immediately afterwards pretend like, you know, it's not like
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: they can't clean They did say it with someone else.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: They did try to point police in the direction of
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: a gang related or no, a mob related hit, you know,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: saying their dad was involved in like shady business practices.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: They did spend a lot of money, their parents' money afterwards.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: So but again, it was thirty five years ago, and
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: at some point, when do you not focus so much
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: on the actual crime that was committed, because we all
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: know it was heinous, and do you focus on the
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: rehabilitation and where they're at now and that they've spent
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: thirty five years in prison. So it says it says
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: basically that they have to wait three years. However, I
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: believe that there's a way that they can apply earlier
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: for parole.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Well, what I have here is written Eric and Lowle
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: must wait at least three years before the next eligible
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: parole hearing. Some indications suggest they may reapply via an
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: administrative review for after one year and get scheduled for
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: hearing in eighteen months. So I guess, you know they might.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know what administrative review means. Maybe that just
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: means they can apply. And if there's they're on track
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: to do whatever they're set out to do as far
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: as good behavior and getting rid of their cell phones
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: and I don't know, paying as taxes or whatever, then
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: you might pay it early as eighteen months.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: Right, And you know they can't appeal this decision, and
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: so I'm sure their attorneys are working on the appeal.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: And I thought this was interesting. The appeal for this
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: parole decision. We'll go before Judge Ryan, who is the
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: judge that resentence them.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, oh, it's the same judge that.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be Judge Ryan that they would be
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: in front of in regards to an appeal to the
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: par board hearing, which I don't know. Maybe that is
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: just a glimmer of hope because obviously he did resentence them,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: so maybe he's more amenable to that that's.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: More familiar with them, so maybe he's come across things
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: that will work in their favor.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so we'll keep following that. Also, here's just some
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: other things that came out of Lyle's hearing yesterday. First
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: of all, I do know that there was some audio
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: from Eric's hearing that was leaked while Lyle was having
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: his hearing.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Oh wow.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: And when the audio was leaked and a news station
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: started running it, Lyle became upset and actually left the hearing.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: And I think he was upset that, Like, I think
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: he felt like that was supposed to stay private, but
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: it was leaked and then everybody was commenting on Eric. Anyway,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Lyle comes back in his commissioner. The commissioner for Lyle
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: was named Commissioner Garland, and she goes into some details
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: about why he was denied parole, and she says that
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: the crime lacks self control, was impulsive and made very
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: poor and that Lyle made poor decisions during the commission
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: of the crime. She says he has poor threat perception
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: with regard to the risk Jose pose and she specifically
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: cited shooting Kitty one final time as extremely callous, which
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: you know we've spoken about before. The commissioner also highlighted
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Lyle's role in the cover up, which was lying to
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: police and working to avoid prosecution. Commissioner Garland also says
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Lyle has a strong support network and good plans for
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: his post release life and is set up for success
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: when he walks out the door, which is all positive.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: She also commends Lyle's lack of violence and his prison record,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: his work on programs inside, and his positive relationships with
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: other inmates and staff. This is a quote from the commissioner.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: We find your remorse is genuine. In many ways, you
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: look like you've been a model and mate. You have
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: been a model inmate in many ways who has demonstrated
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: the potential for change. But despite all those outward positives,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: we see you still struggle with antisocial personality traits like deception, minimization,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: and rule breaking that lie beneath that positive surface. She
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: also goes on to say incarcerated people who break rules
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: are more likely to break rules in society, and that
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: we do understand that you had very little hope of
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: ever being released for many, many years. Citizens are expected
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: to follow the rules, whether or not there is some
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: incentive to do so. I don't know what. I don't
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: know if I necessarily agree. Obviously, they have the statistics
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: and you know, all that to back up what she's saying.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: But to me, when you're in.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: It's like they just described a politician. Yeah right, you
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: don't follow your rules, you lie, you're deceptive.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Right real? Yeah. I just don't know if I believe
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: that you would make the same choices or you the
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: same level of deception in prison as you would outside
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: of prison. I feel like when you're in prison again,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: you're put into a situation where it's a survival type
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: of situation. I don't And also another thing they look at,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: obviously is what the risk is that these two would
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: commit a crime again. And we talked about this earlier.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: To me, I don't think there are risks to society
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: in any way, shape or form. I think what happened
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: was thirty five years ago. It was an isolated event.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: It had to do with traumatic circumstances that they were
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: dealing with within their home at a very young age.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: They made a poor decision. It was a heinous crime.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: I think they've felt remorse for thirty five years. I
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: feel like they've done their time, and I don't think
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: that they're a threat to society.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: No, do you agree?
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: No?
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Based on what I've seen, though, I don't think so.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you wanted to say they should be
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: in there longer because of the crime itself, like deserves
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: a longer sentence, that's that's a different story. But if
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: you're saying that they're a threat to society, therefore they
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: should be in prison, I agree with that.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Also, Commissioner Garland said that I think she was taken
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: aback by this question that she asked Lyle, which was
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: are you a good liar? And he said no. Ultimately,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: she said Lyle needs to be the person that he shows,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: who is the person who is running programs for other inmates.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know if someone asked you on a parole
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: board hearing are you a good liar?
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: I mean that's a what. Yeah, that's not How are
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: you going to answer that? You can't It's a load
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: of question. You can't answer it the right right, there's
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: no good answer.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Right, are you a good liar? Well? If I say yes, yeah.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: It's like when we're kids, you'd run I remember, we'd say,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: like does your mom know you're ugly? Like no, it's like, well, oh,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: your mom doesn't know, you know, but it's like, you
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: can't answer that correctly. No, that's your favor.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: That's a lose lose. So I didn't. I felt like
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: that was a I don't know what you called a
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: trick question, a loaded question, whatever, But it's a question
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: where there's no good answer, there's no exactly. It puts
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: him in a position where you're right, there's no good choice.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: If he says yes, I'm a good liar, then it's like, oh,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: you're being honest, but now nothing we you know, nothing
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: you have said has any weight because you just admitted
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: that you're a good liar. And if you say no,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: you're not a good liar, then it's like, oh, you're lying.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Unless they're trying to say like, not a good liar
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: means you don't do it. You get called out if
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: you do lie, like people know, you don't get away
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: with things. I don't know.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Well, then at the end of this hearing with Lyle,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I think she goes on to give him a little
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: bit of hope, But don't ever not have hope. This
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: denial is not the end. It's a way for you
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: to spend some time to demonstrate to practice what you
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: preach about, who you are, who you want to be,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: don't be somebody different behind closed doors. So she says
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: he'll be considered for an administrative review within one year,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: and Lyle could be moved up to a hearing as
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: soon as eighteen months. And then the hearing adjourned.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Here's we see they have sorry, they have thirty five
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: years or however long, and then in one year, magically
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: it's like, oh, okay, you know, thirty five years, you
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: weren't eligible, you weren't very good, you're not a rule faller, accepted,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: but you know, in the last twelve months, but if
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: you get your app together in the next year, we
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: might let you out.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, I bet. Basically, yeah, that's that's a really
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: good point to make that they've been in prison for
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: thirty five years. But they're saying, don't lose hope. If
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: you can just you know, get your act together in
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: the next year, we might, you know, free you. But
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: is there Here's what I was thinking. Are there consultants
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: that help you? Do you know what I mean?
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Like everything has consultants, Yes, like that probably.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you if you go into pageant there's
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: pageant consultants.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: That teach you, like if child custody, there's child custody
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: hearing consultants. So you go teach you how to you know,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: how to deliver, not not to change the truth, but
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: how to deliver, to express, what to kind of refrain from,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: you know what, what looks? What's bad? A bad look?
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Right? And I know maybe to you listening, maybe that
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: sounded like a dumb question, but it's really not a
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: dumb question. It really is like are there attorneys?
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: That's why you needed a cell phone? He had a
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: close pro board consultant.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Right, I mean, I feel like at this point it's like, okay,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: well we went through one round of parole hearings, we
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: didn't do well. We have a year. What do we
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: need to do to get ourselves, you know, prepared for
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: this next parole hearing. Anyway, if anyone has an any
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: insight on that as well, I'd like to know. All right,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: So let's move on to I just wanted to touch
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: briefly on the Gillian Michaels of pop culture because I
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: see her everywhere, and I will tell you I am
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: the biggest fan of Biggest Loser. You know that I
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: watched it all the time and because I realized I'm
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: one of those people that I like shows where there's transformations.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: That's why you make fun of me all the time.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: But I love my six hundred pound life because I
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: get to know them. I root for them. I want
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: to see them, you know, get healthy. Oh I love intervention.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, the success rate and intervention is like
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: is it It's so low tough. But I become so
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: engrossed in their life and I and I'm rooting for them.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: And I think that's what the appeal was with Biggest Loser.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: It was huge. It was you know everyone, you know,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: there was so I think there were like twenty somethings seasons. Anyway,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: So the other day when I was I put Netflix
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: on and I saw that there was a documentary on
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: the Biggest Loser. I clicked on it immediately. I was
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: so excited to watch it. So now we have Jillian
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Michaels's pushing back against the claims made on her and
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: the new Biggest Loser documentary.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: It's called well, let's be clear on the documentary. Is
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: she does not appear in it? Others do? She does not?
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Right? And I read that they reached out to her
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: and asked her to appear in the documentary and she declined,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: which now she's.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Probably glad she didn't, or she did well no, because well, yeah,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: you're right, if she she would be glad she didn't
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: because she's like that. They say a bunch of crap
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: and they edit it in a way where they paint
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: it in a bad light and I don't want to
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: be a part of that, and now I can sue
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: them and hopefully I'll make some money.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Or she's regretting saying no because she doesn't get to
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: voice her own opinion and give her own viewpoint of things.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: It's just everyone else talking.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: And then so yeah, fair point.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Anyway. The documentary is on Netflix. It's called Fit for TV,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: The Reality of the Biggest Loser. I thought it was great.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: I watched I think it's like three episodes. I watched
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: all of them in one night. The series goes back
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: and re examines The Biggest Loser, which aired from two
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: thousand and four until twenty sixteen and briefly returned in
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty, through a very critical lens highlighting the extremes
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: the contestants endured for dramatic weight loss, and you know,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: now watching it as a fifty year old woman as
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: opposed to you know, a twenty something or thirty. How
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: old would I be in two thousand and four. I
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: can't do math thirty. Yeah, so there's a big difference
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: between watching it as a thirty year old watching it
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: as a fifty year old. Because when they were showing
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: some of those flashback scenes of the challenges they made
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: them go through where they had to stack donuts and
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: you know, put donuts in their mouth and run from
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: place to place, and I was like, that's humiliating, it is,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: that's really that is sad.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: The ones I didn't like are that when they tempt
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: them with like junk food, yeah, you know, not not
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: reward them with something, you know, like like a lot
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: of these shows do they reward them with prizes or
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: things to inspire them, But they want to tempt them
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: with crap food, right.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: And then show like you know, chocolate fountains and donuts,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: and I mean it's just it's just making fun of them.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: And I don't think I actually the reason I thought
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: that's why you liked watching it.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: No, I liked to watch the table well, I mean,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: I do love a good dessert table, but I know
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: I really love the whole transformation part of it. So
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Jillian Michaels has been very public. Every time I pull
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: up my new sword source, which we all know is Instagram,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: there's lots She's been doing lots of interviews, and Michaels
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: has addressed the documentary's claims on social media. I know
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: she was posting a lot of things, and she was
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: posting receipts, she was posting screenshots and things. She disputed
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: accusations that she and other trainers gave contestants caffeine pills
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: without approval, sharing what she said were old emails showing
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: that the show's doctor had cleared their use and that
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: fellow trainer Bob Harper had even suggested certain supplements. I
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: did read an article where she said, I know she's
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: mad because she's being blamed and accused of like for
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: her team to win or whatever, that she was giving
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: them caffeine pills to have an edge. And her dispute
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: is that was It's not like I was doing it
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: on the down load, it was approved. She also rejected
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Harper's statement in the series that she failed to reach
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: out after his twenty seventeen heart attack, posting what she
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: described as a screenshot of one of her last text
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: messages to him that claims he's the one who never
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: responds back to her. She did post a text message
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: that said something to the effect of, you know, you
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: never respond to any of my texts. You know, I
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: do find that interesting when people ghost you. Like let's say,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: for example, she shows a text that shows that he's
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: not responding to her. So he allegedly, according to her
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: and her screenshots, ghosted her and wasn't responding. Then he
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: has a heart attack in twenty seventeen, and then he says, oh,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: she didn't, you know, reach out to me. But it's like,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: where does the blame lie. If you ghosted her and
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: weren't responding to her and you weren't friends, is she
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: obligated to reach out? I don't know.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: I don't think so.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Michael's further did I claims that she made an inappropriate
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: comment to a contestant contestant saying you're going to make
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: me a millionaire, or that she encouraged unsafe dieting.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Why would wait as if Jillian said you're going to
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: make me amazing Yeah.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: In one of the interviews, I don't remember which contestant was,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: but he claimed that she was just you know, pushing
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: and pushing, pushing and pushing, and said something like, you know,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: don't give up, keep pushing because you're gonna make me
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: a millionaire. You know when we watched I don't remember
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: the one woman's name, but it was the very first.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: It's like they flew them in and they ran on
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: the beach, remember, and this is like this is before.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Wasn't it like make it to the finish line and
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: then you'll you'll make the cut or something like that.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And she nearly died and they had to helicopter
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: her away. And I'm thinking, like literally, like I I
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: work out every day and I wouldn't have been able
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: to run that far and sand and heat on the beach.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: And then and you're talking about people that.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Are stretch and warm up the least, right.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, then these are people that clearly are extremely
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: overweight and have a sedentary that's when you don't move
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: like they don't they don't work out, they don't move
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: a lot. You that's whatever that is, Yes, But and
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: then you put them on a beach and you're like,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: run for as long as you can and as hard
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: as you can.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: And these are people that never tried to work out,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: knew they were overweight, we're okay with it for or
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: we're not okay with it, but they let it be
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: for twenty years. And also he expected them to be
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: like superstars and just run right like they could have
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: done that on their own. They knew that they don't
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: want to do it.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: So he claims that she says, you're going to make
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: me a millionaire, or that she encouraged unsafe dieting. She
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: said that written records, including emails and messages with former
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: participants and producers, supported her account that she promoted a
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: calorie intake of sixteen hundred calories per day. The documentary
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: also alleges that she was forcing contestants to consume less
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: than a thousand calories and addressing Rachel Frederickson's dramatic weight
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: loss during season fifteen, Oh my gosh, that was crazy.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Did you see that? That was in the very last
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: episode of this they show this girl named Rachel Frederickson
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: comes out, you know when they show the dramatic weight loss,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: and you can see everybody's face and they all look
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: shocked because.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: She is so thin, like not like unhealthy.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Thin like unhealthy than not like she hes been working
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: out and she lost the weight and she looks she
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: like gaunt, and you can look at the camera pans
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: to the trainers and they were just like in shock.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: So in addressing this is her name was Rachel Frederickson's
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: dramatic weight loss during season fifteen. Michael's claim that NBC
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: told her if she did not publicly condone Fredericson's appearance,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: NBC would pursue legal action against her. Michael's also added,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: I resigned from the Biggest Losers shortly thereafter. At this time,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: she's considering suing Netflix for the claims made against her,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously without her own input in this documentary,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: since she chose not to be a part of it.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: I know she's thinking this is defamatory. They're accusing her
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: of giving, you know, caffeine pills to contestants when they're
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: claiming that you weren't supposed to do that, and she's saying,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: but we were allowed to do that. She even claims
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: that Bob Harper was saying, why don't we give them
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: some other brand stackers or something, but she said the
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: conversation revolved around her saying, no, let's use the caffeine pills.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: I like because they're cleaner, and that the ban on
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: caffeine was never a rule. Also, when they interviewed doctor Hazanga,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: he's the doctor that's on staff.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: He disapproved of the caffeine pills, right.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Well, I think he disapproved of a lot of things.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: But I think I felt. To me, my takeaway about
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: doctor Hazanga was that I felt like he was genuinely
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: a good guy.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think his health was a concern.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was really looking out for the best interest
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: of the contestants and their health. But the problem is
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: is that you're doing that versus good TV, and you've
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: got production on one side saying, but we have to
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: make good TV. So they got to work out hard,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: and they got to lose weight. We gotta have transformations.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: And ye, you know you're right, because if they didn't
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: have any, if people weren't losing weight every week, no
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: one was going to tune in. Yeah you think, Okay,
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: this show is not working right.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: So in order to make good TV, you have to
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: have a significant transformation and you have to have people
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: dropping weight, and so that's where the line was.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Blowing and just breaking down, you know, because they break
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: him down all the time, right, They're crying, they're falling
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: over remind.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Tactics, you know, when you go to boot camp and
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: the whole point is to break you down so then
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: they can build you up. We will continue to follow
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Jillian Michaels. We'll see if she actually does sue Netflix
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: and we will follow that story. But anyway, thank you
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: guys so much for listening today. We appreciate it.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Thank you