Latest / Boner and Mirror Tarot / I Don't Want An All-Night Buffet
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- Molly: Hello and welcome to Bona and Mira Tarot, the delightfully irresponsible little sibling of Bona and Mira Tarot. My name is Molly and every week three Tarot cards will end this podcast. One gets fucked, one gets married and one gets pushed off a cliff. It's childish, it is completely subjective and it is surprisingly revealing because if you know me and you know Bona and Mira Tarot, you'll know that I don't believe the Tarot is about predicting the future. It's a mirror. a way of meeting yourself through symbolism and psychology, embodiment and the wisdom of the cards. And Bona Emeritaro takes exactly the same approach, just with a lot more giggling. put three tarot archetypes through the highly scientific and deeply philosophical game of fuck, marry, push off a cliff. Which archetype deserves your undying devotion? Which one's worth a passionate fling and which one absolutely needs to get into the sea? Along the way, we'll explore what the cards reveal about attraction, avoidance, projection, shadow, values, and the wonderfully strange ways we make meaning. Expect depth psychology, archetypes, embodiments, the odd tantric tangents, and plenty of opportunities to laugh at yourself. And if you want to take the game off the podcast and into your own tarot practice, then I've made something for you. A little field guide called Tarot After Dark. It's packed with ridiculous tarot games, guided reflections, explorations of projection and desire. So you can make your own terrible decisions. and then get curious about what the hell that might reveal about you. you can grab it completely free through the link in my show notes or the link in my bio on Instagram. So whether you're here for the psychology, the Tarot or your own deeply irrational grudge against the Seven of Cups, welcome to Bona and Miratorro. Let's shuffle the cards, suspend our dignity, and see who's getting married today. Hello and welcome back to another episode of Bona and Mirror Tarot. I am absolutely delighted to welcome a dear friend of mine today, so welcome Hannah. Please could you tell the listeners who you are, what it is that you do, your relationship to tarot and meaning-making? Hannah: Hi, I'm so excited to be here and like 5 % nervous, it's like naughty. So I'm Hannah, I do lots of different things. I read tarot and I learned from Molly and I'm hypnotherapist and I'm also like a trainer and a speaker. And I talk lots about lots of different things, but a lot of stuff that's related to like mental health and wellbeing and like birth, death, belonging, like all the big juicy stuff of life. And then I do kind of more, more kind of regular training as well. But this side of things is something that I'm really excited to have a like a little cheeky chat about. And my Molly: Thank Hannah: relationship to meaning making. that's like a funny question, isn't it? That you don't get asked very often. I make meaning out of everything. I love it. I love finding meaning in very, very minuscule things in life. And I love stories as well. My memory works on stories. And if you know me, you'll know that I'm someone that loves to tell stories as well and kind of like join the dots between things. So yeah, a deep and involved Molly: No. Hannah: lifelong relationship with meaning making. Molly: Thank you so much, a big welcome to you. Are you ready to pull some cards and maybe make some questionable or very very obvious choices on behalf of the tarot? Hannah: 100%, yeah. Molly: Amazing, let's do this. I'm gonna pull from my deck which is the Lightseers and let's see what happens. Okay, so we have got some interesting cards. Okay, so we have the six of pentacles. We have the seven of cups. Hannah: OK. Molly: And then we have the nine of pentacles. Hannah: Hi. Molly: So, we'll Hannah: you Molly: start with the Six of Pentacles. The Six of Pentacles, if we're working in the Pentacles, that means that we're working with the realm of Earth, the physical realm, and what it means to be related to the physical experience of being human. And the Six itself, the Rider-Waite-Smith depiction is someone giving. this depiction is a little bit more cyclical as it's got kind of that infinity symbol going around but the idea being about giving and receiving and for me the six of pentacles often comes up in a reading when somebody is in reflection or potentially takes the opportunity to reflect about their relationship to giving and receiving and what it means to be in that reciprocal relationship of giving and receiving. Similarly in the Pentacles we have the Nine so we're still in that realm of earth, body and relationship to the external but we're further along the journey now and the Nine of Pentacles may or may not be one of my favorite cards the Rider Waite Smith depiction is Hannah: Is it the fruity one? Is it the bishop or the pittonette? Molly: It's the one with the woman holding a glass of wine looking very decadent and next to the kind of the vineyard and I really like to think of her as the moment where you you've planted all the seeds, you've put the effort and the work in and you've grown this beautiful kind of bush. Is it a bush of grapes? I don't know. Hannah: No, not that. I call it the Fruity Bush card, but I don't think that's the name. Molly: The fruity bush card, the fruity bush, mean, that definitely belongs on the podcast, the fruity bush card. But yeah, she's put in all the effort, she's grown all of kind of these grapes and she has a glass of wine because ultimately the invitation of the card is to be in pleasure in the present. It's delighting, finding pleasure in what is and not waiting. It's the card of like, I mean, I'm very good at being like, I'll do the thing when dot dot dot fill in the blank. And she really calls me and calls you into that experience of like, why not now? Why not enjoy now? And then the last card that we have is the seven of cups. So the cups is our soup of water and feeling. through the lens of the heart and the feeling function. So this is really how we navigate and analyze our experience through the lens of feeling and value. The seven is our trickster paradox energy. So with the seven of cups, there is the risk of the feeling function becoming overinflated in its capacity to decide or to decipher. And so the depiction often is kind of seven cups with these fantastical items in them. There is a very big element of dream big in the seven of cups, but also I like this depiction because there's kind of a mystery about what's underneath the cups. You can't quite see what there is. Hannah: and I'll see you time. Molly: And I think it really calls to the, it calls to the need for the swords. And you know, we can. talk about the swords all day long and about kind of sometimes that sticky relationship with them, but the Seven of Cups is really like actually in this moment, I need the discernment of a sword rather than my feelings becoming over inflated in its capacity to discern for me. Because when we allow feeling and value to kind of make the choices, we can become a little bit too expansive or a little bit too dreamy. So that's the paradox of the Seven. It's like... dream big, dream of all these fantastical things, but also maybe a slight over-estimation or an overconfidence with the feeling capacity to choose. So those are our three cards. Now what you thinking? Hannah: yes so i have like what i'm realizing as you're talking is that i've got nicknames for like pretty much all the cards so the seven of cups is the mystery man he's like a mystery magician we had the fruity bush didn't we and and the six is like the here you go because that's what it Molly: I Hannah: looks like in the rider eightsmith that i've got yeah i've got lots of thoughts i actually had the seven in my pile of red flags as well because i Molly: Mmmmm Hannah: and I remember when we looked at it together when I was studying with you and it's like, it is a very enticing card and it's kind of original form, isn't it? It's got all these like beautiful cups, all these magical things inside and you can kind of have any of them but we don't know what they all are. That's going off a cliff. I'm not interested in that. Like that's got to be off the Molly: Ooh. Hannah: cliff. That's, yeah, I'm not up for like, like, I need some directness. I need to know what's going on. I like dreaming big and I like all of the kind of... I like potential and I like, I'm very, I don't know what the word is, I suppose like optimistic and hopeful and I have like a big expensive view of what is possible, but also that can be such a distraction, can't it? I think that card for me, that would be a danger zone. Molly: I think the Seven of Cups, like you described it perfectly, that danger zone. Like it absolutely is deliciously dangerous in its capacity to kind of, yeah, reel you in into kind of dreaming big. And like you, there's nothing, you know, I don't find anything wrong with dreaming big. I love dreaming big and I love Hannah: Yeah. Molly: having this fantasy of what I think I would like my life to look like and the jewels that I would like to have. not like physical jewels, I've got enough crystals, I don't need to buy any more. Or maybe the unlimited pile of tarot decks that I will accumulate over years. Like I've got this dream of what this podcast is gonna become. And so I, no means I'm saying don't dream big, that absolutely is not the kind of intention, but there's something, yeah, attention of the opposite, there's something deliciously dangerous about allowing that... that dreaming big to be the guiding compass of making decisions. I think it is one of those moments where we need to really, yeah, pull on the strength of discernment, pull on the strength of the sword to cut away and to be able to support the Seven of Cups. Because I think the Seven of Cups absolutely needs to be there. We need to have that Piscean dream big, but then it needs to be holding hands with the Queen of Swords, who's a little bit like, I love your enthusiasm, but. we need to rein it in a little bit. And so I agree, I mean, I agree it's going to go off the cliff. I do have a little curiosity about what it would be like to fart. Hannah: I mean, I feel like it would be an all-nighter. I don't think anyone's sleeping in that direction. Molly: It would be. No one's sleeping. And then he's pulling all these different toys out of the bag. They're all laid Hannah: as well. Molly: out in cups. He's, Hannah: Again, it's different characters. Molly: hmm. And then he, and then like, there's a, what are they called? You know, those like things in hotels, the bell jar things, but yeah. What Hannah: Yeah, and then they out. Yeah, I don't know what they're called, but yeah. Molly: are they? Someone tell us what they're called. Anyway, he's got those and like, lifts it up and it's like chocolate covered strawberries and there's another one and it's a dildo. Like it would be an all-nighter filled with a lot of fun but given the three that we have Hannah: Yeah. Molly: I think he does have to go off the cliff. I'm so sorry. Hannah: He thought, I know, it would be interesting. You're selling it to me now. But I think for me, I'm like, so my chart is very like fire and water. And I'm so in my astrology chart. And so I'm very prone to getting stuck in that potential. Like, what about this? and then there's this and we could do this. And that kind of like endless buffet and just standing there and being like, I don't know what to pick. Because there's so many things. And I need that fiery side. I think that, yeah, it's not going anywhere. It'd be a fun night, but there'd be a danger of getting stuck, I reckon. Not moving Molly: Mmmmm Hannah: forward. So I think just for the sake of kind of the medium to long term, we're just gonna have to push them off. Molly: Yeah, put those boundaries in. I think, yeah, going in it with open eyes would potentially support those boundaries. I mean, we've got two other fairly beautiful cards to discuss. So I think Seven of Cups is off the cliff, which Hannah: happening. Molly: means that you now have the six and the nine of Pentacles, one of which you need to fuck and one you need to marry. What are you thinking? Hannah: Well, it's really difficult because like I'm very gut-led and my gut wants to settle down with the nine because I can see like, I know pentacles are very like earthly delights and carnal and off the flesh. So it might lean more towards the foot category. But who doesn't want to settle down if someone wants to like live in the juiciness of the life? Who doesn't want that for the rest of their life? Why would you save that for a one night stand? Why would you not Molly: and Hannah: live there? Why don't you want to live in the garden with the wine and the fruity bush? With someone Molly: Mmm. Hannah: that's like, yeah, fuck it, YOLO, come on, let's enjoy. Molly: Fuck it, YOLO, let's enjoy is absolutely the tagline of the Nine of Pentacles. And I agree, that was the way that I'm going. And I've got an interesting exploration of the Six of Pentacles when we get there. But the Nine of Pentacles for me, it's a really interesting card because I've spent a lot of my life doing the, I will do X when fill in the blank, kind of when I am skinnier, richer, more. famous, more interesting, clever, you know, like all of those things that we use to deceive ourselves into thinking that we don't deserve it now or that we can't do it now. so, Hannah: utterly. Molly: and so the Nine of Pentacles as a partner would be someone who really brings me into that. Yeah, the idea of worth. And I suppose I'm, I'm projecting both in a positive and negative way onto the of pentacles. Negative in the way that I don't necessarily want my worth to be coming from another person. It absolutely needs to be from me. But equally, when I'm looking at the nine of pentacles, I'm like, yeah, like that is something that I want to cultivate for myself. And how beautiful would it be to have that reflected in a partner? Someone who can, you know, not just tell you you're worth it, drink the wine. but also entice you into a relationship that allows you to believe in your core that you are worth having a glass of wine, going on holiday, doing all of those things that bring you pleasure and joy, sitting in the garden. So yeah, I think it would be a very beautiful marriage. Hannah: I think I can't turn that down. Who doesn't want to come home to that? Molly: Mmm. Mmm. You'd come home and there'd be wine in a glass in the garden, strawberries. I mean, I've said strawberries twice in this episode. Someone get me some strawberries. Hannah: You have. Yes. Molly: But you know, then there'd be like an easel with some paints and Hannah: Yes! Molly: you'd go and sit in the garden, watch the sunset, and that would be the evening that you partake in, which I absolutely could do with. Someone find me a Nine of Pentacles partner, please. Hannah: I think that's what might be what we're all looking for in a partner. Molly: Which leaves us fucking The Six of Pentacles, which Hannah: Yeah. Molly: I'm curious about. You tell me what you think and then I'll go through my of mind-making stories. Hannah: Well, I mean, it's kind of ended up there by a process of elimination, but I guess with the six, we're thinking about our relationship to kind of giving and receiving. And I think in the original one, there's like in the Rider Waite Smith, there's somebody up and somebody down, Molly: Hmm. Hannah: isn't there? Which I don't love that depiction because I don't think it, it doesn't conjure up the fullness of the meaning of the card for me. It looks kind of like, I find it a bit condescending. But when we think about giving and receiving, I mean, that's sex innit? That's what it's all about and I feel like that could be a fun place to work it out. I feel like that Molly: Mmm. Hannah: might be, you know, I don't want my whole marriage to be like sussing out how are we, who's giving what, like that's boring. But for a night, I think that that could be some, that could be some fun. Molly: I yet a hard agree on everything you've just said and like I'm so curious and interested to make the decision to fuck this card and I will tell you for why. Tell me why ain't nothing Hannah: Tell me why. Molly: but anyway I will tell you for why because when I pull the six of pentacles and I'm not saying that this is kind of a collective everybody gets the same meaning but But variably and very often the conversation becomes around difficulty in receiving and then therefore will often go into a conversation about worth around receiving. And I think that the Six of Pentacles does kind of scratch the surface of a potentially collective wounding around women and receiving and worth. Hannah: you Molly: So. And I'll speak, the collective is maybe a little bit too big to go into in a podcast episode, so I can speak on my own personal experience. I find receiving really difficult in a intimate relationship. I know this of myself and I know that I will often overperform and over give because there is something deeply terrifying to me about receiving. and about being seen just as is. So my tendencies are to over give, to compensate, to compensate for my difficulty in receiving. Like I'll be like, no, no, no, I'll do all of this. And, do we not have time? okay. nevermind. And that's like such a tendency of mine. And I've tried to make it a practice to allow the receiving to happen, but I find it so terrifying. I find it very vulnerable and I think that that is my own depiction of how I see my worth played out in a very real and very visceral way. Like it feels very much like the most visceral symbol of how I feel about myself is Hannah: you Molly: being struggling to receive in intimacy. All this to say that I absolutely would fuck the card. but I think that it would be very much an experiment in kind of like maybe a bit of conscious sex, conscious kink in the way that it's like, Hannah: and Molly: let's experiment with what it feels like to just receive. this would be a more intentional, this isn't like, I've met you at a bar and I'm gonna fuck you. This is like, mm. engaging with someone who I'm like, I find it really difficult to receive and they're like, I love to give so let's experiment with that and see how that feels is my, how I feel like my experience with the six of pentacles would be. Hannah: love that I really love that and I really relate I think the things like in general in a broader sense but also with what you said some of the things that I am happiest and most comfortable giving I find the most difficult to receive like it feels like that's how the scales go when you were talking and when I'm thinking about the card I'm also looking at I've got the modern witch one here because I can't find my love one it's giving like sub and dom isn't it it's giving a bit of you be this guy, I'll be this guy, and then next time we're gonna swap and you are gonna be in that one that you're not used to being. Do you know what I mean? And I think that might be really fun. I think Molly: and Hannah: that could be a really good little like, yeah, a little exercise in some role play Molly: so I have been exploring the relationship between Tarot and Kink for a while, kind of beneath the scenes. It's certainly potentially the direction that my master's thesis is gonna go. And when I think about that Dom sub relationship, there are other cards that I would have immediately picked as, you know, like the Emperor and Empress as a... as a pair feel like a very obvious pick as well. But the more we're talking, the more I'm like, my goodness, the six of pentacles is absolutely a dom sub card in the way that I think that there is sometimes the misconception about a dom sub dynamic where there is an imbalance of power. And I Hannah: Mmm. Molly: think that kind of, that's where some, you know, some of the misconceptions around conscious kink lie. is around that imbalance of power, but actually there's a lot of strength in being a sub and allowing and receiving and releasing or relinquishing. And there's Hannah: you Molly: also a lot of softness in being a Dom. There's a lot of care and there's a lot of, yeah, Hannah: Trust. Molly: trust. You have to both be in a very trusting kind of reciprocal relationship. Like Hannah: you Molly: I think the... kind of the stereotypes place it as a rule and balance, actually it does need to be, I mean, equally reciprocal of trust, relinquish, softness. And so what a beautiful exploration to have with the Six of Pentacles is that, yeah, the kind of blurring of the boundaries or at least the interplay between Dom and Sub. There we go. Hannah: yeah, Molly: But I feel very good about our choices. Hannah: I'm really happy when you pulled them I was like because I think it does feel for me like in my tarot journey because I'm a little bit earlier I'm a tarot baby I'm only a couple years in but I feel like the cards with character with like people it's kind of easier isn't it to have an immediate sort of feeling about relationship and who they are and the other cards like the ones that we pulled were all a little bit more in depth I had to think a little bit more about I had to personify them a bit for myself, which is a really, really Molly: you Hannah: cool thing to do. I really enjoy that. And I love one of the exercises that we did that I still think about now, and you said we would, when we were learning the suits about putting a song for each card and for each suit. Molly: Mmm. Hannah: And I would often hear something and be like, I know who that is. That's the Three Swords or that's the Four of Cups. And I really, really Molly: mm-hmm. Hannah: love that. So it's really nice to bring them to life. And I've actually, feel very solid in our choices. I think we've Molly: Yeah, Hannah: done well. Molly: so we have very firm in our choices and we'll settle Hannah: Mm. Molly: for absolutely no less than the Nine of Pentacles as a marriage partner and Hannah: Nerdist. Molly: like no less. And I'm so deeply curious about this exploration with the Six of Pentacles, the slightly edgy, maybe vulnerable, but certainly a really interesting evening where I'm invited to explore my experience of receiving and worth with the Six of Pentacles. So, I'm so sorry, Seven of Cups, you are gonna have to bye bye off the cliff. And yes, just imagining him falling with kind of all of his cups and all the jewels and all the money, all his lovely things. Hannah: all of his lovely things he's brought. I don't want an all night buffet. Do you know what I mean? I want a full meal. I don't want to be picking Molly: and Hannah: him, picking them, chopping and changing. Like great, maybe for a party, but I'm sorry, not tonight. Molly: It's okay, not tonight, not today. Well, I've got two final questions for you. I'm Hannah: Hmm. Molly: asking everyone on the podcast, which is who out of the entire tarot deck do you believe to be the sexiest card and which card is the biggest walking red flag? Hannah: so the sexiest card I was like looking at all the typical ones and they weren't really giving me the feels. My the sexiest card that I picked is the phallic tower. Molly: he's got a big phallus. Hannah: It's just like so dramatic. It's so Molly: Mmm. Hannah: dramatic and it speaks to me about the impermanence of everything and like, you know, my like, we've had lots of death chats, you know how I am quite obsessed with the idea. Well, I don't know. I have a lot of thoughts and feelings around death, but in the context of this question and this card, the fact that nothing is permanent and nothing is guaranteed and that we are all only here for a short ride and we don't know how long it's going to be like. There's that, that makes things very delicious and exciting for me. But also just this, I look at it, look at it. Look at the fire, look at the drama of it all. Like let it burn. Molly: you Hannah: I love that kind of full surrender of that card. That is what it gives Molly: Yeah. Hannah: me. It's just like let go, like fuck it, let it burn. And I just, that fills me with some kind of passion that none of the other cards could do for me. And I have looked, I have tried, but that's the only guy that's doing it for me. Molly: I love that and I mean you know me we've had plenty of discussions about my kind of love relationship with the Tower and I was actually writing yesterday so it is just I mean impeccable timing that you bring this up but I was I think I've said this to you before and if you're listening to this podcast who knows how long this is going to take but I am writing a book called Being a Whore and what it taught me about God and at the moment it is just in like post-it notes and poems and things but it's definitely something that I want to come into fruition. So maybe saying on this podcast will give me some kind of accountability but I was doing a little bit of writing for that and was exploring my relationship to grief and the subsequent exploration of sexuality and kink and intimacy and what you named is something that I really feel is that the grief that I have or the experience of losing my mother As much as I can try and look at consciousness studies, you know, I'm fucking doing a masters on consciousness studies, like this is what I do is I'm trying to learn as much about consciousness and spirituality. and all of the wonderful ways that humans explain and understand meaning. And in doing so, I'm trying to fit my mother's death into one of these frameworks. And yet it just doesn't work because Hannah: chaos. Molly: the moment that I can say like, my goodness, absolutely not only believe, but have had experiences, very visceral experiences of understanding and knowing that... we are non-dual in the divine and that consciousness exists and then goes back into kind of vibrations of consciousness and I absolutely can believe that and do but the moment that I have to grapple with the idea that that's where my mum is it all falls apart like there's absolutely no way that I can do it and so the impermanence of her body and you know we can say that she lives on through thoughts and memories she lives on through a kind of collective consciousness. She lives on through symbol and, you know, lives on through me in my body. The fact is that she is not here in body and the impermanence of that, I think has really catapulted me into an experience of understanding impermanence has made me deeply like appreciative and just obsessed with body and, and like. what a gift it is to touch another body knowing that the body that I'm touching is impermanent and it will not be here and what a precious gift it is. And so for me, like that tower being the sexiest card, I mean, I've always had a love relationship for it, but being the sexiest card, imagine two people knowing that they only have until the morning, what kind of, what passion lies there when that is all that exists. So I- Big thank you for bringing the tower in because I absolutely love that. Hannah: I love it. It's so apocalyptic. It's so timely. just, I Molly: Noooo Hannah: just love it. I really, really love that card. There's so much there and it's like this, it's stormy and it's yeah. And it's the surrender and the impermanence and it's just the full letting go. Yeah. And the fireiness of, and like just the big feelings. You know, I'm really obsessed with those big moments in life, like birth and death and like, you know, like deep full body, like love and passion, those things that like just fill us up with something that's so much bigger than we are. And we have no Molly: and yeah. Hannah: choice but to just surrender and go with it. And that's what that card brings up for me. Like that, and that's Molly: and then. Hannah: everything. That is the essence of everything. Molly: So who's your biggest walking red flag? Hannah: I found that one really difficult because I'm like, what's the word? I see everyone in the best line. And so and I've got like a lot of empathy and I don't want to be mean to any of the cards. But I tell you the one that got me like all the why was me cards, like the ones where someone's like, you know, like those cards kind of all get me but the one that I think is and it's really no shade to the guy by the tree. you know, that's fine. But like, if we're thinking about entering into a partnership or a relationship with someone, four cups, right? Molly: I'm in the... Hannah: Okay. And it's partly because I have got quite a lot of ace of cups energy about me. And there is a real risk if I spend too much of my time and energy and emotion and head space on a four of cups. I would just pour and pour and pour and I'll be like because the four of cups for me is the guy that missed the party and he's all like you know because the three is like yay cheers everyone's having a lovely time in the three and then we go to the four of cups we've got this guy sat by a tree and there's all these cups and he's like I wasn't invited and you know just a bit feeling a bit sorry for myself and then you've got like that kind of ace-ish cup coming through that's like look but there's this and that could be me and I I love that about myself and I love to give that to people, I really do and everyone moves in and out of different spaces in their lives don't they and I'm not trying to say that like if there's people that you know I love I'm a giver I love to give we talked about this but long term that would be risky for me that would be risky and it runneth dry. It might. Molly: Your cup would runneth dry. love how you described yourself as the ace of cups and immediately it was like, hang on a minute. What would that mean for me in relationship with the four who is depicted as being given the ace of cups as a way to orient back towards feeling. And I agree with you. I love your interpretation. I'm gonna add a layer of meaning just because I know... Hannah: Yes, please. Molly: kind of we both really like talking about grief and we've already spoken about it once. But for me sometimes the four of cups is this holding off moment of stagnation because it knows it's about to go into the five. You know, like there's a holding off of depth of feeling in grief and I'm gonna be totally transparent. I spend quite a lot of time there in that Hannah: Yes. Molly: holding off space, but equally Hannah: Yes. Molly: given my experience and my you know, understanding of how delicious and yummy grief can be. There's a little bit of projection from me of like, like why wouldn't you want to be sat in the delicious yumminess of grief? Hannah: Yeah. Molly: I'm also projecting because I know that I often sit in a space at the four of cups of just like, I'm gonna pretend it's not happening, head in the sand. So Hannah: Mmm Molly: yeah, there's a little bit of my projection onto that four of cups of like, what do you mean you don't wanna go into the Scorpio depths of death and destruction? but while equally acknowledging that I also do the same thing. Hannah: Yes, yes and I've been there as well like for sure and I think, it's a funny card but it gives me a feeling. It gives Molly: Mmm. Hannah: me a feeling of danger like for me personally to spend too much time like having been there but I think to spend too much time trying to get someone out who's not ready to move. Molly: Mmmmm Hannah: I think that's what it is of like how much would you give? And he's not even like, in the card that I'm thinking of, he's not even really looking. He's like, not that bothered. And I just think to me, that's like, kind of like pouring all your essence onto the ground. Like there's Molly: you Hannah: the potential of that. That's what that card, that's the feel that it gives me. But I like, I like your, like the reminder to look ahead at what's next as well. Like I'll get into the Scorpio depths. That's fine. I'll come and like party in the pits with you. But like, I'm not, I'm not good. I think I've got the potential to get stuck there too, you know? and I don't Molly: and Hannah: wanna lose myself in trying to pull someone out. Molly: Absolutely. We don't want to lose ourselves in trying to pour our cups into someone that's not even looking. That's not even looking. I mean, I feel like this has been an incredibly rich exploration and I am deeply grateful for your wisdom and your curiosity and all of your insights. I certainly will be looking at the tower slightly differently in my ever, ever changing, everlasting love. relationship with the Tower has just gotten deeper. So I'm very, very grateful. Thank you so much. I'm gonna bring the episode to a close and everyone who's listening, of course, you know what to do. Like, share, comment. Do you agree? Do you disagree? Do you think that we have gone a little bit insane or are you with us standing on the edge of the cliff watching the Seven of Cups flail as he tries to grab onto all of his kind of whimsical jewels? do let us know. You know what to do with our podcast. So I'm going to bid you a big farewell and a final thank you to Hannah. Thank you so much. Hannah: been a pleasure. Thank you, Molly. Molly: See you later, bye bye. And that is a wrap for this episode of Bona and Mira Tarot. A huge thank you to my guests for joining me and making some truly questionable life choices on behalf of the tarot. If you've enjoyed this episode, I would love it if you subscribed, left a review or shared it with someone who would definitely have an argument with a tarot card. And if you've been listening and thinking, I need to play this game, then good news, I have made you something. Tarot After Dark is my completely free field guide to desire, projection and questionable relationships with archetypes. Inside, you'll find Fuck, marry, push off a cliff, tarot date, red flag, green flag, unfortunately hot, and a whole collection of ridiculous ways to play with the cards. alongside slightly more serious psychology of why these games can actually tell us something about ourselves. Because sometimes deciding that you'd shag the night of ones is just funny, and sometimes asking why tells you considerably more than you'd expect. You can download Tarot After Dark for free using the link in the show notes or the link in my bio. And if that gets you curious about the slightly more serious side of my work, come and find me at Bone and Mirror Tarot, where I explore Tarot through depth psychology, embodiment and transpersonal practices. You can find me on Instagram at at bone and mirror Tarot, where I share readings, workshops and all the ways that I use the cards as a doorway into understanding ourselves a little more deeply. And finally, if you're listening and thinking I would love to come on the podcast and make some terrible decisions of my own, I would genuinely love to hear from you. Send me a message and let's make it happen. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, keep laughing, keep getting curious, and remember, we take the tarot seriously, we just don't take ourselves too seriously.