Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Dancing in Heels - Commercial Dance vs. Theatre Dance

Transcript

Dancing in Heels - Commercial Dance vs. Theatre Dance · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance, from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: If you're a competitive dancer, chances are you own nearly every dance team known to man, except perhaps heels.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: In the commercial and theatrical dance world, dancing in health is the rule, not the exception.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: So why don't more competitive dancers know how to dance and yields?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: On episode 105 of Making the Impact, commercial dancer Monica Giovanna and theater dancer Sky Maddox join us for this hot topic in the dance world.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Hey y'all, welcome to the tweet's episode of Making the Impact.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host Leslie Mueller.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Hey Courtney, can you believe that it's almost the end of season three?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, and I'm so upset about it! I can't believe it's flown by.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I feel I mean, every time we do this, it seems like we just did the first one of the season.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Time flies when you're having fun.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we've had so many amazing topics on season three.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we recently released our hundredth episode.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: So this is actually 105, everybody, but our hundredth episode, I hope you had a chance to listen.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we uh had a giveaway on our Facebook community, and it's been really awesome to see on one of how you entered was please share your favorite podcast episode out of all of our hundred episodes.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just been so cool seeing people reference episodes from all three seasons, all the way back to season one.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I like the people, it's most of the people are giving reasons why.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just like, oh, episode 42, it's it's because A, B, and C.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I really like to hear, you know, that we really are making the impact.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: So We are.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yay! So by the way, speaking of our Facebook community, if you have not joined, head on over to Facebook and type in Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast community, and join us there.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: We have about 1,600 people over there and growing and counting.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think that by the end of season three, we will probably have over 2,000 members in that group.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, and like we'll have to do another giveaway then.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: We like a giveaway.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: We have a giveaway.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: But like always, we want to share our sponsors who are supporting this week's episode on Making the Impact.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: And this week's sponsor is Dance Costumes by Urzua.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Dance Costumes by Urzua offers high-end custom, one-of-a-kind costumes for all genres of dance.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: From edgy contemporary to professional tutus to subtle Leos and Sparkling Minotaurs, and from sweet lyricals to fun musical theater costumes.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Choose from a wide selection of fabrics, including hand painted fabrics and custom printed fabrics.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Add feathers, rhinestones, embellishments, and more to bring your vision to life.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Head on over to dance costumes by Erzua.com now to view all of their designs and use our exclusive podcast promo code Impact15 in all caps at checkout to receive 15% off all costumes and dancewear.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: And this season we have started something new uh at the dance competitions that are affiliated with IDA.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: We have the Making the Impact Award.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: The Making the Impact Award is presented at all of our IDA affiliated competition events that have at least one IDA judge on the panel.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's sponsored by IDA and the podcast, and is essentially a judge's choice award that the judges get to collaborate on throughout the weekend and choose an entry that they feel spoke to them.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it could be making the impact through performance, execution, choreography, just something that they can't stop talking about all weekend.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um so we have a couple of winners we want to share with you today from our recent competitions.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Congratulations to Chloe Weitzman, her solo That Man from Gone Dancing in Oyster Bay, New York, won the Making the Impact Award at Spirit of Dance Awards in Long Island, New York.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Congratulations.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, Chloe, I got to see that number.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't have anything to do with choosing the awards when I direct at competitions.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm always super psyched to see who the judges choose.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that was a very, very good dance.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm super happy for you.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yay, I love that.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: And another really cool fun fact about our new making the impact award is that we have a studio that won the award twice already this season at two separate IDA affiliated competitions.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: How cool is that! I'm so excited for the studio.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought that was just so awesome to see that registration come in.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: And they also won for two different routines from their studio as well.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: So congrats to Visions Dance Academy in Matthews, North Carolina for being the first studio to win our award twice in one season.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Their large group Chicago won at Star Talent Productions in Fort Mill, South Carolina, and their large group Turning Tables won at Epic Dance Showcase in Spartanburg, South Carolina.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: So congrats to all of the winners who have received the Making the Impact Award this season at an IDA affiliated competition.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully you'll be next.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: All right, y'all.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's time to jump into this week's episode.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: And this is an episode that I have been dying to do for since season one, honestly, because this is something I'm really passionate about, and that is dancing in heels.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that I'm so passionate about it because I teach in heels to the younger generation, and usually theater jazz or Broadway jazz on conventions, and nine times out of ten, there aren't many dancers that have heels on in the class.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I find that a little bit strange.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I will say, like personally, and we'll we'll dive into this, you know, in the discussion, but I wasn't brought up training in heels.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: No one told me that that's something that I needed to learn how to do.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then I get to New York City to be a professional, and everyone is dancing in heels, and it was actually Leslie and I will have funny stories to share from our very first time dancing in heels together if we're a Caribbean.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: That was interesting.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: So a mess.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: So this is something that I think is really important for young dancers to start hearing from other experienced heel dancers, I would say.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to actually cover both sides of the spectrum from dancing and heels for like commercial hip-hop and also dancing and heels on the theater jazz side of things.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really excited to welcome two brand new guests to our podcast today.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And first guest I'd love to welcome is coming from the West Coast.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: She's going to tackle the commercial side of things.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually know I've known this dancer for a very, very long time because she grew up in the Maryland dance competition scene alongside me.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I grew up competing against her studio.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And now she's killing it out in LA.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super excited to welcome Monica Giovanna to the podcast.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Courtney.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's so lovely seeing you again.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I know.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's so great to have you here.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I've just been admiring your career out there.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: You've truly been killing it.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: You've danced with everyone.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait for you to tell the world who you've danced for.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I'm just so proud of you.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: You've really, you're making such so much, you have so much success on LA.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're killing it.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very excited to tackle this because I feel like it is a very underrated topic that when you go into the professional world, it's like it hits you like a ton of bricks, and you're like, wait a minute.
• 7:23
  unknown: Yeah.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Not ready.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: So um if you wouldn't mind sharing with our listeners a little bit more about you, uh, where you're from, where you trained, and any career credits you'd like to share.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, uh, like Courtney said, I grew up in Baltimore, Maryland, uh, in a super competitive environment, two studios, uh Dance Explosion and Spotlight, Studio of Dance.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, super competitive.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: And then I moved on into college dance team world, which I kind of got stumbled into.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: And then as soon as I graduated college, I moved out to LA and kind of hit the ground running with um the industry, dance industry.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: But I definitely grew up in a technical environment.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: Hip hop got introduced into my life around 13, 14.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and heels, I feel like always naturally was just something I was interested in, but I never really trained in it while I was in studio dance.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: So, yes, I came to LA, got introduced into the industry, and pretty quickly started working.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: Some of my credits include Prince, Justin Bieber, Jennifer Lopez, Camila Cabello, Gwen Stefani, a bunch of A-lists, a bunch of amazing people that I've gotten amazing opportunities to work with.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: And Kiel's has been incorporated in probably 95% of those jobs.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm really glad that you guys brought this topic up and that we're speaking about it because it is really important, especially for young dancers, to know how to like get introduced to it and how to take care of themselves while they're doing it.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: And then so when they get on the job, they know exactly how to handle them their not only their dancing, but also their bodies.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I absolutely agree.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't wait to dive into this with you.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for joining us on this one.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And our next special guest who is joining us, coming from New York, and the theater dance side of this heels discussion, is someone who I have admired for so many years.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: I have been in the audition room with her.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: We've never done shows together, sadly, although we should change that.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And she is one of the fiercest dancers you'll ever meet.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to welcome Sky Maddox to our podcast.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Sky.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, thanks for having me.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're so welcome.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I already said this to you personally, but for all of our listeners, when I was casting this podcast, I was trying to think, all right, we need somebody that's got, you know, the LA side.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then I immediately thought of Monica.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Then I was like, all right, so many choices for the theater dance side of people to cast.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: But then I was like, Sky.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Sky is it.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that she wants to join it, join us.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm glad that you're here.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, me too.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit more about you and your training and where you grew up and what brought you to New York and then any credits you'd like to share.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm originally from a little teeny town called Danville, New Hampshire.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's so small.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I grew up dancing at my mom's studio.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: She had a studio uh in Salem, New Hampshire for about 17 years.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it was we did a little bit of competition dance, but we weren't a competition-centric studio.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, I was there until I was about 15 and then she closed her studio and I ended up going to Jeanette Neil's studio in Boston and did their pre-professional uh program there for a couple of years.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then I chose to forego college.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: I actually uh graduated as a junior from high school.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: I graduated early.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um just to move to New York and start dancing.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: I just knew I wanted to just kind of dive in.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I uh yeah, I I moved to New York when I was seventeen and I started auditioning right away and West Side Story, the the 2009 revival was coming around.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up auditioning for that.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: I got cast on the international tour, and that sort of was the start of my professional career.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've had a long history with West Side Story throughout my career.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I it was my Broadway debut.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: I did three different productions with that 2009 revival, like the national tour, the international tour of Broadway.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And uh most recently I just did the Steven Spielberg adaptation that was in theaters recently.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that was really a treat.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I primarily work uh in theater.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: I've done uh three Broadway shows on the Town and Carousel were my other two shows, besides West Eye Story.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, I've done a bit of film and TV as well.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was on Fossy Verdon and Smash on TV.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you know, it's the dancer life.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: You just kind of jump around and see, you know, what takes you to the next thing.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's me.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And Sky is currently teaching some fierce classes in New York City at Broadway Dance Center and Steps on Broadway that all of you listeners can join in virtually if or sign up for a class if you're heading through New York City this summer.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: We definitely wear heels in that class.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: So love that.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: All right, y'all.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Let's jump on into this heels chat.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yay.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so thanks, ladies, for joining us.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, super psyched to hear more about your experience and any advice you have uh for young dancers looking to get into the professional world because I mean, it's just heels for women.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: It really just is.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: If you're talking about commercial and theater dance, like if you're in the concert dance world, maybe you get 50%, you know, barefoot, 50% some kind of shoe.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, you know, for most of what we do, it's gonna be heels.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm curious to know, do either of you remember like the very first time you put on a character shoe and what that was like?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean, I don't remember specifically like putting it on being like, whoa, but I do remember the first couple of times.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember because it was such a strange shoe.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was almost like I don't I I don't know.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was a character shoe, but maybe it was not for theater dance.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe it was more of a a ballet shoe or something.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've never come across this type of heel since then.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And they were hand-me-downs from my mom.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: So they were like this little it was probably like a two-inch heel max.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a completely flexible sole.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was almost like a full sole, like it wasn't a split sole situation, it was like full suede sole, and you could point your foot like you would in like a uh a jazz shoe or something like that, and it was just like the one strap across the ankle.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a little bit of a little bit of a teaching shoe or something.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of, yeah.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I know what you're talking about.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's almost like the equivalent of like a padini on a ballet teacher or something like that, but like a baby heel.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's so strange.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, so I remember working in those and feeling like, oh, my feet look like awesome in these because you could just point your foot and there was no um resistance from like a hard sole or anything.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I was like, oh, I need to actually put on real heels.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I graduated from that too.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Monica, any any memories from you?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like growing up, I was always fascinated by heels.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: Mind you, I'm five too.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I just naturally was always like in a platform, like at amusement parks and all that kind of stuff.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: I was always naturally very invested in heel, but it was definitely a difference when I started dancing in them.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think we did a production when I was like 16.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: It was a musical theater production, but we were by no means doing it.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: It was definitely more of an acting musical theater base.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: It was by no means really doing like fuetes or anything in heels yet.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I feel like that was the first time, but it was definitely the classic like character heel.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't too, it was about two inches, so it wasn't too extreme.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: Because now, you know, like we get into the industry and it's like I'm in a six-inch steep mat and it's flat.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely then I was like, okay, and again, growing up kind of just fancying heels, I was kind of ready for it, but it's definitely a weight-bearing difference when you're going to think it's a totally those little character shoes that Skye's talking about.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: That was my first character shoe as well.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and they're just they're just called um Leo's used to make them.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so they're black, they're suede sold, they have a little hard heel.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: They don't make them anymore though.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can't you can't you can't find them.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um I didn't think so.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: But but yeah, that's a little that was a legitimate shoe, and it like kind of was your intro into a character shoe, so you could point your foot.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's over.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's what I was wearing.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, no point.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, no.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll share mine, and mine, I will say that my very first introduction to some type of heel was probably a heeled tap shoe.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I got introduced to a heeled tap shoe before I got introduced to the show.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: I forgot about your letter heel.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm and like we didn't really, we never really tapped in heels, but there was like one dance that they wanted us to be a little bit more, you know, classic tap, and that was like my first time, which that's a whole nother discussion.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think we need to do a tap in heels episode because that's hard to do, everybody, FYI.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I would say my very first introduction to like dancing in character heels was, and I do not recommend this, on the job was my first uh time dancing in a in a character heel with Leslie Mailer, doing my very first first professional job with Royal Caribbean cruise lines, and we auditioned in flats, we we rehearsed in flats, and then all of a sudden they're like, Well, you know you're gonna be in heels.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Here's all four pairs.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Here's all the heels you're gonna wear.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: You should start breaking up your news also, by the way, at the time.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Which but Leslie, you danced in heels prior to that.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I at school.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: So where I went to school at OCU, if you were tall, you got to be in the Roquette precision style numbers.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: I am five feet tall, so I did not get to do that.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't get to do that.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: I was a good tap dancer, but I was never cast in a tap sh tap number.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I took tap class in flats, they didn't require you to do it in heels.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I was in one jazz dance at one point that was in heels, but it was another one of those sort of let's walk around and look pretty in heels and not actually do a turn or a leap or anything.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, not really.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and certainly not in the shoes that they that capacity.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: In the shoes that they gave us back then.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: So these days, from what I understand about cruise ship life, you are in the Laduca.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: You're either asked to bring your Laducas or you're you're in a flexible split sole character shoe of some brand that makes them.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: But back in the day, we were in a three-inch hard-soled capezio character shoe, which you know they rubberized, which thank God.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: But they were just clumpy bricks, and you were expected to do like switch leaps on a moving ship.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: In a heel that you've never danced in in your life.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the choreographer saying, like, all right, dancers, put your heels on, and she like literally just made us walk across the floor and we looked like Bambi because we didn't know how to walk.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've worn a heel in life before that, but like to do like a showgirl strut across the stage.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: We were all the short girls.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: The other girls were 18, I was 23, and we were like, I mean, maybe we can do this.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: I lost a toenail that summer, like it was rough.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, the worst.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but yeah, heels don't do not recommend starting your career uh having never danced in a heel before and then being asked to do it on a cruise ship.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Nope.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that is very much why I wanted to have this discussion, which you know, we are sharing so much knowledge on this podcast, but like that is a horror story for me as a professional that I don't want any of the future professionals to have to experience.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: It you should not be dancing in a heel for the very first time on the job.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Do not do like me, okay?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, you kind of mentioned it a little bit, Monica, but like the weight bear, like the weight transfer of a heel versus a flat.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have do you remember that or how how long did it take for you to kind of like navigate what that was and like even the transition from like the starter heels that we all started in at like two inches to like now going to a three or a four?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: What was that transition like?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: I definitely think honestly, I'm still getting used to it.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: I've been in the industry nine years now, but I still think I'm getting used to it because honestly, when you're in a sneaker, I didn't realize for myself, maybe it's being like a technically trained dancer that I definitely dance more in my toes.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: So then when I go to transition into the heel, then it's it's over.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just like tumbling over the front.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm trying to turn and I'm falling all over the place.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I feel like it's still a thing I'm still trying to navigate, but I find it easier when we are in rehearsals to kind of either ask for the heels that we'll be using in the show or asking, like, are we gonna be in heels?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: So that way we can prep and actually do all the movement in a heel before the job comes because it is a complete setup.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's all it's like glorious when they're like, actually, your guests are gonna be in sneakers.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_03: We're like, oh thank god.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, it's definitely things.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think just preparing for it is definitely something I'm trying to get better at because you never know either.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like sometimes people like you to take class in a thinner heel, but then you get on the job and it's a chunky heel.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you don't know if you're gonna be on dirt or if you're gonna be on a nice marley stage.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: You just have no idea.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: So it's definitely trying to be prepared and understand where your weight changes are.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I'll intentionally wear heavier shoes so that I'm more grounded in my heel.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like a not a Timberlin.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think we've moved out of that phase, but just like a heavier, like Nike shoe or Yeezy or something that like really grounds me so that I'm like prepared to stay in my heel, especially if we're doing anything technical.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: Forget it.
• 21:03
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And actually that uh when you were talking about like the different uh like heel, like a skinny heel versus a thicker heel, that actually kind of uh reminded me of the fact that like a theater heel is usually has a little bit more of a sturdy, uh chunkier heel.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you do have the ability to feel a little bit more stable and less wobbly, and that will allow you to have a stronger standing leg and bass as you're doing more technical things like bob bobs or leaps, even.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas like ballroom heels, for example, usually have a little bit more of a skinnier heel.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And there have been many times, and like those two heels, which we'll get into theater heels versus ballroom heels are very different types of heels meant for two different very types of dancing.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like you shouldn't be trying to do jetes and leaps in a ballroom heel.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's not meant for that.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: But like there's so many times I think that you know, parents are well well, you have a pair of the heels.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Put them on for everything.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, actually, there's like heels for every style of dance that you do that you need that are going to s help support you properly and safely.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's so many times when I'm teaching theater jazz and people roll up in like a ballroom heel and I'm like, yo, you can't, you're gonna roll your you're gonna break your ankle.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like truly.
• 22:18
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like honestly, there was this unspoken thing in LA where all of a sudden it was like better to have taller, skinnier heels because it made your lines look better, which is valid, but it's over a chunk of it.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: Just totally valid.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: But coming to a ballroom heel or sorry, with a ballroom heel or a character shoe to a heels class in LA.
• 22:37
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, they don't know, you know, they don't know.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: I literally wear Steve Madden six-inch skinny heel with the bottom is like a Timberland boot.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I can but it's like that doesn't make any sense either.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think there's a brand of shoe that a lot of girls started wearing, um burr burr shoe or burr.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was gonna ask what that is because I I've heard about it.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't uh invested in them yet or really tried them, but it's definitely I think a morph between a commercial everyday heel and a character heel.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: Kind of make it easier for dancers, but I have not gotten into those yet.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we'll like link to those in the show notes.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think that I've heard of a lot of LA dancers wearing them.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: They have like a little like lace up the front type of open toe situation, and they're almost like a little booty sort of, which feels a little bit more supportive, which is you know nice for your ankle, but I do think they're a little on the pricier end.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and that's what we can kind of dive into a little bit with Sky in the theater world.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're just not gonna get an inexpensive quality dance heel.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's impossible.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: So what do you wear, Sky?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: I do think I know the answer.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: I wear Lajukas.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: I wear Lajukas for the most part.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: The goal is to try to, you know, get into a show where you can take your show shoes afterwards.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: That is like my yeah, that's the nicest thing.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny because I spent the pandemic uh dancing, and before that really, dancing in my June is busting out all over boots from carousel, which was my last Broadway show.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, they're like depending on the shows, especially with revivals, it's all period shows.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that means different heel heights, different heel shapes.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: On the town was actually it didn't really have that bell at the bottom like Laducas do.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was a skinnier heel because it was the nineteen forties and we were doing like incredibly athletic dancing in that show.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so unstable and it was like a three and a half inch heel.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I spent the pandemic and a l a little bit before that too in my character boots uh from Carousel because they were custom shoes and it's a lower heel.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably like an I don't even know if it's two inches.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: It might be like one and three quarters or something like that.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And they just feel amazing.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like I feel like I can dance like I'm in bare feet in those shoes because they're so fitted to my foot and it's a lower heel, which is something I've realized in the past couple of years.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't think I if if given the choice, I don't think I'll ever dance in a three-inch heel again because it's so it you have so much more access to dancing fuller in a shorter heel.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: And especially in theater dance, you know, it's you really have to be able to move quickly and directional like quick directional changes and stuff like that.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it that's difficult in a higher heel.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: I can't like I have little to no experience in commercial heels.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: I literally don't know how you guys do it.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Not a clue.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how we do it, honestly.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm like, oh my gosh, and the the non-flexibility of the shoes is crazy.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say, I think it's super telling with that of your technique when it comes to the heel, like especially the height or anything, it is like game over.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: No technique, it's you can see it clear as day.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hold on for your life and music.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: I know it is an art.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, the one time I've really had to use non-dance heels was on Smash, and we were in these like eldo, like platform type shoes, and it was awful.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: My feet were in so much pain.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think the platform was actually like plastic.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: There were these like clear shoes, and we were doing this really grounded choreography.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I even remember one of the steps was modeled after like Muhammad Ali, like really into the ground, like those quick, quick steps.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: And we're in these like clacky, like plastic shoes, and it was awful.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, it just hurts my feet and my soul a little bit.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I I've uh diverted from the original question.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: What was your original question?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we do here.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's great.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's how this works.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the question was what you wear, and I assumed it was Laduca's.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think for for people across the country who, you know, Laduca is a shoe brand that is out of New York City.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: They have a tiny little store.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: They are non-refundable, expensive shoes that you cannot buy at your local dancer store.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: However, that is like the shoe of this style of dance.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of a marker of professionalism.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's a marker of, you know, wanting to take things seriously.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I will have, I have to admit, you know, having been a professional dancer, I was not into the Laducas.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: To me, for my small foot, though those heels are too belled.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: They look, they look silly on me, I think.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I just wasn't willing to spend the money.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think for students across the country and teachers to to sort of, if you're not willing to spend and listen, folks, they're expensive.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm talking over$300.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: $300 to$300 over$300, depending on the style, depending on the color, depending on if you have a little bit of a few.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: They for a while.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: They do.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: They do last for a while.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: You must take care of them.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: But like, listen, if you're if you have a 14-year-old dancer who's still growing, I don't know how many people are going to spend$300 on a shoe.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: However, the shoe I wore as a professional dancer, and many brands make them now the flexible shoes, is the block split flex.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: Block split flex.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: Solid splits for training shoes.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: But that's kind of a really nice starter shoe.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: Sodanza makes one as well.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: That is also a good thing.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think I might have to do the Sodansa too.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: They're good starter shoes.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: They look very similar.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, the block heel is smaller physically.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: So like if you have a small foot, that was better for me.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't feel like a clown walking around with this giant tapered heel.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: But it is one of those things that, like, if you as a studio owner or a dance parent is interested in purchasing a heel for your dancers, I think the split sole shoes, whether you're going to go Laduca or another brand, are probably the better way to go because most brands do make a regular character shoe that's a full sole.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: And those are the ones you sort of see at like community theater, high school musical theater production with the wooden bottom.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: You just sort of clump around and you know.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's maybe not the first shoe you want to buy unless you're gonna be in, you know, our town where you stand there and sing.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it's important, like you kind of said, and I'm glad we're talking price point because you didn't it is you can't get a you can't get a character shoe that's under a hundred dollars that's gonna help keep you safe, make your feet look good, allow you to actually do what you need to do on the stage.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm just letting you know.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, like if there's anyone out there, I mean I think the split flex are like$85.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: I I think they're a little like close to$100.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: They're under$100 if they're not a hundred.
• 29:49
  unknown: Yeah.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: So like I would say that's the best recommendation.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: But if you are going on to discount dance and you are buying a shoe that is$25 to$4D for D dollars and have a throw it out.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's it I I you know if you're going to want to start incorporating heels into your training, you have to make sure that you're investing in the proper tools to do so.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't do it with those.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, I'm just letting everyone know because there's so many times that I'm like excited when I see dancers at the stage and they have a heel on and they can barely point their foot, they're slip-sliding all over the place because they have wooden bottoms, they didn't get them rubbered, they didn't get the get swayed on the bottom.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's a lot of issues with like thank you, dance brands, for creating these heels, I guess.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: But also, if you're doing a solo, if you're doing a group, that's part of the costume fee.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be able to invest in it, or it's not even worth it, to be honest.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: I went there.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: You did.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and listen, when when you're wearing I think, you know, if if you're gonna do, like I said, if you're doing a number that doesn't require a lot of fancy footwork or technique or grounded choreography, you know, if you really are doing more of an acting-based musical theater piece at competition when you're 12, okay, you know, buy a junior footlight.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: They are they do exist.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: They've been around for 50 years for a reason, because there's a there's a place in the world for them.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a place for us.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but it is probably not, you know, when you when you do your version of America a dance competition.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: If you're doing it right, you need to be in a split sole, flexible heel because otherwise all you're gonna do is get docked points for not pointing your foot because you can't, because the shoe's preventing you from pointing your foot.
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• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm really glad that you brought up Sky, the whole like heel height discrepancy thing, because I think that a lot of people don't like I've gotten questions so many times from people like, I'm gonna buy my first Leducas, which heel height should I get?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I always tell everyone to get two and a half.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, agree.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, we're all shorties in on this pod.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like Sky's the tallest.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: You're not even that tall, Sky.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're like five four, maybe?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: Five five, yeah.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're five five.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I thought you were a little shorter.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's tall.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Not yeah, right.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's tall to us, all of us over here.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Five, two and under, but um I've always wanted the three inch because I'm I like kind of like what you mentioned, Monica.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just want the extra height.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: I just feel like it elongates my lines and I feel like sometimes I feel stumpy in my two and a half inch heels.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: It just my weight's further back and my arch.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: I have flat feet too, so I need like that extra, you know, oomp to get me up there.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I have also noticed as I've gotten older that like if I'm going to a rehearsal, I'm putting on my two and a half inch heels because that extra half inch is just it it is hard to be in all day long.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: And if I go to an audition and I want my legs and lines to look, you know, really great and I'm in them for an hour, cute, I can make it through that.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: But when you're training and when you are going like when you're in rehearsals, I think that two and a half is perfectly fine.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and also I think it depends on what the piece you're doing or what the show you're doing calls for.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, three inches looks beautiful when you're standing there and when you're doing more like I don't know, like pose centric choreography or like if it's a lot of walking around, if it's a lot of like stylized lines.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're doing really athletic dancing, yeah, I I really don't think there's a huge difference between the half inch, even a full inch, like come down an inch.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's you know, sometimes you have time periods that you have to adhere to.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, for me, especially as I'm teaching now and seeing sort of this new generation of dancers coming up and how they work in heels, how they use them, even down to how the shoes sort of like shape themselves because of the way they use them when they point to their foot.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a three-inch heel really can affect someone's dancing as opposed to two inches.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's a big difference between how much plie you need to give yourself, where your weight is.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's a tough negotiation and I feel like it's a a much harder struggle when I'm in a three-inch heel than when I'm dancing in my little uh like kitten heel uh carousel shoes.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think in the long run an audience member is gonna be like, they should be in a a higher heel.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like no, your feet are moving too fast.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I always go back to like I I don't think you actually started seeing three inch heels other than in like you know, things that it like showgirl type things.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Until recently.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you look at the shoes like Don McKechnie was wearing in Music in the Mirror, they're scarcely taller than like an inch and a quarter, two inches.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: Shoes have changed so much in that way.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: And even like uh certain uh dancers uh that I've I've spoken to, I think it was Marianne Lamb who was saying she prefers a hard soul.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: It might not have been Marianne, but it's someone that I was speaking to was like, I I don't know how you dance in Oh, I know who it was.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: It was not even me.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is a friend story.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: So scratch everything I just said.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: My friend Lauren was in Anastasia with Carolyn O'Connor.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: And Carolyn specifically requested uh hard soul shoes because she was like, I don't know how you dancers dance in uh flexible shoes.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's no support.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: So dancing in heels also has I think changed over the years.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um with the heel height, the way it's structured, how your foot is supposed to look.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think getting that flexion like in the toes, like pointing your toes in them is a new thing in the last probably like twenty, twenty-five years or so.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um until then, I think it was mainly like your ankle that you were getting the line from rather than your being able to fully point through your toes.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that yeah, it's just changed so much, and I don't necessarily think you need all the height when you're w uh in theater dance anyway, you know.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: And something I want to bring up with the hard soul versus the soft flexible soul, the Roquettes wear hard soul ledukas, if anyone didn't know that.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I was shocked about because I've always worn so the flexible, soft sole ledukas.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I did the show, and literally I wasn't a Roquette FYI because remember I'm 5'2.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: So um I was in the ensemble.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: But when I did the show, I couldn't believe that these girls were actually breaking their shoes, their hard, their hard soul breaking them and saying, like, well, they give us more support and they last longer because we're doing five shows a day, and our feet can handle like our feet are that strong that we can actually still point through these hard soul dadookas.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I found that fascinating.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: I would have never known that it was a hard soul looking at their feet because they were able to still point it all the way.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like it looked like a flexible shoe.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, and they were different heel heights as well, just so everyone knows that.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to go back to something that Monica mentioned earlier, and that's um having technique while dancing in heel.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about that a little bit.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: I know Monica, you said, you know, I think my technique helped me transition into dancing in something like a six-inch heel, but can we elaborate?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I think I I kind of wish I saw a little bit more technique in heels, if you get what I'm saying.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think that is honestly that is what I will 100% stand with the ballet technique.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely there's a correlation to dancing in heels, regardless of the style or anything.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: There is definitely a correlation.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_03: I think some of the most beautiful heels dancers are uh technicians.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, however, in LA specifically, it has become a theme for uh choreographers to create their own heels uh programs or uh themes or anything like that, um, where sometimes it's more like uh twerking in heels, sometimes it's more hip-hop dancing just in heels, sometimes it's more technicians in heels, sometimes it's sexier uh and more feminine.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: There's really all these different categories, I think, now that we've created an LA, but I think the root of it is 1000% technique and the way that it can resonate a little bit better, I think, in what you're trying to express in a heel when it comes to commercial dancing, because usually it is femininity uh on a job or anything like that, is definitely at the core being a technician.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm kind of curious.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, can you as a technical dancer, you grew up in the scene, you have trained in ballet and all the jazz techniques, can you, as now a commercial hip-hop dancer dancing in heels spot the spot a dancer who is is dancing in heels but possibly wasn't technically trained?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: Can you 1000%, yeah.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then even specifically with certain classes, there are technique elements like turns, chanaes, bot ma's, splits, uh, all these things, and even sometimes acrobatic things that I'm not even probably flexible enough to do sometimes, but it's definitely beneficial.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you can really see it because it's something effortlessly that we don't have to think about.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_03: We can go into a chine, into a drag, into a bot ma, do a fan kick to the floor and not think about it because we're so accustomed and we know where our placement and alignment needs to be to do those things versus maybe stumbling over your feet or you know, having bent knees, which from a normal person eye is like, oh, maybe not, you know, like, oh, it looks prettier when the line is really finished.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that it definitely influences what looks better.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but then again, you do have this uh, you know, a category of hip-hop dancing, like hard hitting, maybe more like booty-shaking styles, which don't require as much uh maybe uh technique in lines.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: However, I still think it uh you need the technique in your core and understanding your alignment because if now you're just gonna tumble over regardless.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why I feel like that's at the base of it.
• 41:13
  unknown: Yeah.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: Before you ever put on a heel, you gotta know how to, you know, have your alignment all together.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Sky, anything to add?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I was gonna say also to sort of piggyback on that.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: You really well, in in theater dance anyway, because you have this flexible soul that you're usually dancing in, you really need to have an understanding of how to work through your feet as well and how to use them, how to be able to use your shoes to your advantage.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: I also and this is kind of like a PSA to students that are starting to train in heels.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: And even to people that are stepping into the professional world right now.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: I would encourage you, you know, if I know everyone's like, I get my first pair of Laduca Can Can boots and it's like a a life moment for everybody.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: And absolutely dance in them.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: But you also need to have an understanding of how to dance in normal heels without the support of the boots.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I know I've talked to so many theater teachers that have been lamenting about this too.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, yes, you have the boots, which inherently look beautiful when you're standing there.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: But the second your foot comes off the ground, if you can't point through those boots, it's a lot of shoe.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: You need a lot of strength to really mold those shoes to your feet.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I see these dancers, they come in, they look beautiful, they look like, you know, their leg's gonna come off the ground and it's gonna be this like Elizabeth Parkinson line.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then their foot comes off the ground and it's like a dead line from the ankle down because they don't know how to point through.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's a great thing to really start uh training and not a boot as well.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: And just to to really understand how your toes are so important to really use.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times I think we think like ball of the foot and that's all there is to it.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: You must, must, must pad through your toes when you're landing, you know, directional changes.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think just with dancing and heels in general, you need to be obsessive about your line and how they look.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like you know, even stepping into like a fourth position in theater dance, there's a difference between your heel being seen by the audience.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit more of like a harsh jazz line, or hiding your heel from the audience, it's a little more of a fluid line.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so apparent in heels because you've got that extra chunk of a heel.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just your heel of your foot.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's yeah, it's really dancing in heels is an art and you need to have like Monica was saying, if Solid, solid, solid foundation of technique to be able to dance your fullest in heels and most especially really articulating through your feet.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important, I think.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry to piggyback on that too.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think not only is it, you know, knowing technique and knowing ballet, but really understanding the technique of a heel, right?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said, like you're not just putting the foot down and the heel and the toe are both touching.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like we need you in releve with the heel off the ground.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: You're dragging the ground, you know, into like a half split that the ankle isn't sickled on the floor.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: You're like picking it up and all that pinky toe.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like even those little technique things that I think you don't really, you know, you learn in ballet, but like when you put the heel on, it's now heavier weight than a ballet shoe.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: And you're like, okay, now I need to learn this like heels technique, which I think can go a long way, even if you necessarily didn't grow up with beautiful ballet technique, at least learning the heels technique when you have the heel on to exactly again, like you said, really know like to point all the way through those feet, even if you don't think about it when you're in a jazz shoe or a sneaker.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: And the other thing to think about too, not like not only do you need to think about your lines and your placement and how you're using the floor, but you need to think about the strength of your ankle.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because you can have a beautiful pointed foot, the wing for days.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: But if that ankle is loosey-goosey, it's over.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's over in a heel.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't have all those other having had two ankle surgeries in the past two years, probably because I danced on a cruise ship in a wonky that ballroom shoe we had for that one member that we were trying to leap in and that just have collapsed under you because the shoe does not support that kind of dancing.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like the strength training of your ankles and all those intrinsic muscles of your feet, like we were saying, uh, Monica in ballet, like you just sort of take it for granted because yes, I'm in ballet and I'm doing my tendus and I'm articulating.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: But like if you lose that when you put on a different shoe, then you're kind of what's the point?
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're kind of it's kind of over it.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, like I know everybody is so um these days are so concerned about like using a foot stretcher and making sure my feet are so pretty and like they can be pretty, but they also have to be strong because that's that's your moneymaker, you know.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's why you spend$300 on a pair of shoes because those those babies are what's gonna get you work and you have to protect them as well.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: And with that being said, and like the articulation and strength, something that I say oftentimes, especially to a lot of newer studios or studio owners that approach me saying, I want to start incorporating heels into my training, or even parents that say, How can I get my dancer in heels?
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: I want to like how you kind of said, Monica, that like heels and ballet kind of go hand in hand.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: They absolutely do in the sense that when you get your point shoes, you should get your character heels at the same time.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: It is the same exact thing.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's like, you know, oh my god, point, point, point, yay, yay.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: This achievement.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's exciting.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: That means that your feet have possibly stopped growing.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're strong enough, they're ready for that point shoe.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: And in point, you're learning how to articulate and strengthen your ankles.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: And the same thing is happening in a character shoe.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: If you can go on point, you can dance in a he in a character heel, and you should start incorporating that heel training in your in your dance training at the same exact time.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: All the things that you mentioned, Skye, about articulating through the toe.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's one of the very first things that I notice as someone that doesn't is newer to heels, is they don't understand the articulation.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: They don't understand how do I get into a releve above the heel height that I'm that I'm wearing and find a forced arch in a heel or stepping toe ball heel and letting your heel of your character shoe be the very last thing that steps and not sickling in those beautiful$300 shoes that you just invested in.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have to have the training to support the heels, and that's the same thing.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna just slap a pair of point shoes on never taking a day of ballet in your life.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: There is progress and training to get to point, and your teacher thinks, okay, well, your feet are strong enough now.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: I can see that you understand how to point your feet properly.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now we'll get you in the point shoe.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing has to apply to to the jazz training, honestly, and the ballet training to advance into the character shoe.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where the technique really, you know, comes hand in hand.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's something that more studios should start investing in, honestly.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: If you're gonna do point, you gotta put on a character heel too, y'all.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: Why not?
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: There's also such an opportun Yeah.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's also such an opportunity to not just have to navigate dancing in shoes, but to use them to your advantage.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like and actually dancing in boots has sort of helped me to understand this, but you know, in theater's so many times you're like tweaking your line and sort of rolling off your bunion to do these forced arch lines.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you have that strength in your feet to be able to support yourself, you can really use the shoe to your advantage.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: There are lines I can hit in heels that I can't do in bare feet because I have this little bit of padding around my my toes to be able to sort of hold this shape, but my my toes are strong enough to do that.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and, you know, the the rest of your foot and your ankle as well, too.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, there's there's such I don't know, you have a lot of opportunity to hit these like striking, striking lines that you don't necessarily like going over your toe, for instance, or like yeah, being on your bunion for certain four-starch things.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: You can really, really start using them if you know how to use your feet before you get in the shoe.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so then you don't feel like you're just trying to work with the heels, but you're using them to your advantage as well.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's this is like a we a little tangent, but what you just said, Sky, triggered something that we talk about all the time on the podcast.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it has to do with presentation and footwear.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: So the reason we harp so much, I think, as judges on what you're wearing on your feet, at least I do, if you're in a musical theater solo and you are barefoot or you're in turners, you're not gonna get the same line as you would in a jazz shoe and a fishnet or in a heel and you know, a seamed tight.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like these footwear choices really do matter, especially if you're trying to go for a certain time period, a certain look, a certain style.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you're talking about that, I'm like I I can see you creating this line with the bunion, like it would not look the same in bare feet.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: It just wouldn't look the same, it wouldn't have the same idea, it wouldn't have the same feeling.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like, that's that's why it matters, guys.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think people think sometimes we're just like, we just hate turners.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: We do.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: However, we do there's also a reason why, and that's why.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, agree.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, hold on.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so curious now that we're talking about turners and we have you know, an an LA and a New York vet.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: Have have y'all ever witnessed this is so not heels related.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: Have y'all ever witnessed people go to an audition and do and do you know what we're talking about?
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: Actually.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so there's these like, they're like uh they look like okay, I think they're like rhythmic gymnastics shoes that look like little half, like a half of a ballet shoe on your toes with an elastic strap that goes up across the back of your heel.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: They're like half soles, pure wear to do their little turns on the mat.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: And like that's the popular thing right now in the dance competition world is everyone wears those things.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's them.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: So in jazz, in in musical theater, in lyrical, in contemporary, in acro, everybody's wearing a turner.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_03: They always come off.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm watching competitions on the show come off.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_03: They only wear one.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like, just take them off.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_03: Right now, right.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: On the shoe or take off the shoe.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: The sky is like mind blown right now.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, I've never seen this in my life.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: What is this?
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like, I know the shoe, but yeah, I didn't realize it was such a thing.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a thing and everything, and I think that's another reason why this imp this discussion is important because regardless if you're gonna go pro or not, yeah, you know, we have two professionals.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: We're we've all been professionals.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, regardless if your dancer is like, I'm gonna be a professional dancer, it's still important to know how to train in different styles of shoes for the genre of dance that you are dancing.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there are requirements once you decide to pursue this or go to school for this or even teach it one day.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: You can't just be like, ah, we're just gonna wear whatever shoe I want for every style of dance.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's not really how it works.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like I mentioned before, I mean, if you are going to start training in heels, it's important to have a commercial heel for hip-hop heels.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that is not a theater character heel, and that is not a ballroom heel, like Monica said.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's not.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: And there is that brand that kind of has the hybrid like dance meets commercial that seems like it could be a good investment if you're moving to Los Angeles and you want to wear those heels, or you can just go the Steve Madden route like Monica and get a fierce pair of Steve Madden that worked for you.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: I highly don't recommend that.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, then don't do that.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_03: After eight hours, yeah.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_03: After eight hours, you're like, my feet are broken.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think the the hopefully I'll send you the link.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: I just looked it up.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it's and I'm surprised honestly Laduca hasn't come out with like a more commercial heel.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly, I feel like it'd be genius for them.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_02: They probably make their time special for people, I would assume.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've seen a lot of music artists wear Laducas, like Katie Perry and Taylor Swift.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: They've worn them for their concerts, but they're like custom made and like, you know, really fancy platform boots or something.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_03: But Caleb there's a brand as well.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we wore them for a show, but I'm not entirely sure the name of those either.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_03: They're kind of mesh on the side, they're the softer sole.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um they're a little flexy, they're not really like stable, but um, I know that she wears them, and I think they even can make them with a platform on the toe for height.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that's my best advice is making sure we have the proper heels for each genre that we're dancing in.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that applies even outside of heel dancing, y'all.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like making sure we have the proper shoes for all styles of dance, whether that's ballet and we're not dancing in socks or half souls in ballet, we put a ballet shoe on canvas or leather.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care what it is, but it better be a ballet shoe.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you can't you can't go to play soccer in a lacrosse shoe or a basketball shoe, or like it just it's literally the same.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I think people forget that sometimes.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have to make that sports comparison for them to understand why you shouldn't be wearing a ballet shoe in a jazz class, or what, you know, vice versa.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 54:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we covered a lot of heel talk, Leslie.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: Are you feeling good about this chat?
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that anything about this before we close out?
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like sorry, I wanted to mention one thing.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_03: Go on.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_03: I think for studio dance specifically, when it comes to looking online and looking at, you know, dance studios like Millennium and Playground and Teamy, like in LA, that are teaching a lot of heels classes.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_03: I think it is important to navigate in studio specifically with children.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think it's so easy to be like heels, sex.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_03: We equate that a little bit when it comes to the commercial world, especially with the music, right?
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like maybe we're dancing to Chris Brown or we're dancing to Usher, whatever it is.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's just really important not to over-sexualize.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, that's a whole nother topic and a whole nother day.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_03: However, I think it's really instead of going in maybe a studio, having bringing in a choreographer or you know, someone teaching heels or wanting to get in into teaching, not necessarily going into these dance studios where their kids are, you know, 18 and under and being um like, here's a choreography, let's learn it.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's really like, let's maybe start walking in the heels.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_03: And really, I think heels dancing is all an internal battle when it comes to the commercial side of it.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like you really need to learn what your femininity is or what your energy is in a heel, because it's different, right?
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_03: From going from a sneaker, now we're in a heel, we feel a little bit more pulled up, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we need to like go that route.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's really about allowing the space for the students to like learn who they are a little bit more internally and what sexy or feminine means to them, because I think that it's kind of getting blurred because we're professionals, right?
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_03: We're in our 20s, 30s, right?
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_03: And we're we're able to exude this type of energy, but that's not maybe natural for even a 16-year-old.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_03: I would never expect them to be able to perform something the same way I do.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_03: So it's definitely learning how to like, you know, grace yourself and all those types of things.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_03: And how does that kind of using more of those ballet terms, I feel like when it comes to children, like how to pour a bra and like all these, you know, soft hands and using those elements when it comes to teaching children specifically, because I'm sure when you guys see it even at competition or anything like that, or if you have an audition on Broadway that's it's you know, children, that you're not like, oh, this is this is sexy, this makes me feel something, right?
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_03: You wanted to feel that like whatever it is is natural to them.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they may be in their practices.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_03: They may be in their 20s, and it's not natural for them to grab themselves in certain areas or touch themselves.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_03: But it's like, you know, I think it's just important to like understand there is a commercial heels genre, but it's not necessarily it doesn't need to be mimicked, it needs to be a feeling and it's more learning yourself in that whole entire space and what that means to you.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really glad you said that because I think that it's taking over the world as far as like social media and all the kids watch it and then they want to do it, and it's like, oh, I'm not quite sure.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like these are adult classes that you're watching that like everyone is of age, everyone are adults can choose to do this movement.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, having someone come in and in you know, might be inspired by their work on adults, but is that work appropriate for children?
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we can still introduce them to what it's like to dance in a heel in an appropriate way by almost giving like a heels crash course instead of just throwing like mature material like choreography at them that's above their head.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I I'm really glad you said that because I think I actually think that could be a really great episode in that, you know, kind of going from like what's appropriate for adults versus what's not appropriate for children type of thing, since that's such a a popular something that's going on in our industry right now, especially with social media.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_03: The music choices, right?
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, you know, like Chris Brown, Usher, like I think I'm saying these male, female artists that are this what they're singing about is grown.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_03: So naturally your movement wants to match that, but that's not necessarily maybe appropriate.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_03: And the things that I I do in LA, I would never go teach that at a studio.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_03: I would, you know, right, but not everyone knows that to know, right?
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like not every choreographer.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, my kids might want to bring this choreographer in or they want to do what they're doing, and it's like, that's great.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_03: It just may not be appropriate.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_03: And and I've heard that that backend response from like the kids, you know, they've their studio owner brings in a choreographer and they're like, you know, it just didn't feel right to do those type of things.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, of course not.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_03: You're 14.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you don't know what this is.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_03: I hope you don't, you know.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess like the question, like my question for you, Monica, in particular, with like that type of class or that type of movement style in a heel in particular, when do you feel like the right time is?
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something that can be introduced at 17, 18, like one of the senior dancers that's like about to break into the industry?
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you feel like that's something they shouldn't even really explore until they actually are of age, like legal adult?
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_03: I don't necessarily think it's it's um, you know, if they're 15, 16, because honestly, some 15, 16-year-olds look older than me now.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like they they look so grown.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_03: So and they're kids are very aware of everything with the internet and things like that.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't necessarily think it's like a now you're 18, here we go.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's just whoever is explaining it to them needs to explain the intention appropriately.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like I maybe in LA I'll be teaching and I'm like, oh, you know, like pretend like maybe you're a little like tipsy in the club.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_03: A 14-year-old has no idea what that means.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_04: You know, yeah.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_03: So the intent in the way it is explained, you know, maybe it's it's um like maybe someone would explain something extravagantly, like, oh grab your you know, your chest, but uh maybe it's more like how see, and that's where it gets so tricky because it's like how do you even how how do you even right?
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's more the intent, I think though.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like I I always say like like even just like energy in your fingers when you're touching, you know, your arm or whatever, or your shoulder, whatever it is, like your what you're going through your head around your head or something, like the intent is energy in your fingers.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's never like correlating it to like, okay, grab here and do this and act like you're doing this, and you're like, wait a minute, they shouldn't know what that is.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_03: I think it it is a blurred line, but I think it's just the intention of how it's being explained to them needs to be a little bit more uh appropriate.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I go, I just default to like common sense.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like most people should be able to judge whether it's appropriate or not.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_00: So go with your instincts.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely more for studio ownership.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_03: It probably is.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right, yeah.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely just doing the research of like it might look great on the internet, but most people taking those classes are of age and are a little bit more experienced in maybe what is being expressed.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like as much as it's great to bring those people in, just understand and maybe have that conversation.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_03: You can bring them in, of course, but having that conversation of like, hey, you know, let's just be mindful of how we're explaining things and the movement specifically.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I definitely think for studios, like the idea of bringing in just a crash course of heels, how to walk in heels.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_02: Some kids do not, you know, kids these days, some of them aren't even wearing a heel as a piece of clothing, just for generally, you know.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so just a technique crash course, I think, is probably the first step.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't have to even come into choreography or you know, anything else besides just let's do a jazz class in heels and see what happens.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_03: Or even uh I think agency auditions in LA and some auditions for jobs that I've been on.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_03: The first thing is put on the heel and walk across the room and that's a cut.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_03: Well, just learning how to walk in them, like that that's base, you know, like we got the technique, we got that, and now let's just learn how to walk and have a feel of a walk.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_03: And that's you know, that's huge.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't even need to yeah, necessarily even be about the steps.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's like just have yeah, have the crash course come in, let's figure out how to stand appropriately in this heel and right how weight changes are and things like that.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, especially if like studios don't have a teacher that ever trained in heels or can demonstrate what it's supposed to look like in heels.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think a lot of studios are like, oh, I want to start, you know, doing heels.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, okay, well, who's who's gonna show how to do it?
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's almost you know, with point, you know, it's a little bit different.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can actually, I think that's slightly different.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, your point your ballet teacher is not putting their point shoes on and showing you what to do.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think it is a visual learn uh for a lot of dancers to really see, oh, that's how you do it.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, now I need I'm gonna replicate that.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_01: So that crash course is a great idea for a lot of studios to take advantage of if they want to start incorporating it and eliminating the choreography aspect that might not be that appropriate sometimes.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_01: You never know.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, y'all.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_01: So many thoughts.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_01: We could talk forever.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_01: I know, truly.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: So many things to chat about.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I think this was so informative and so helpful for so many people.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure a lot of people are gonna go buy some heels now, hopefully.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll we'll link to a a list of different heel brands in our show notes so you can have an idea of where to buy them and how.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: And uh thank you both for sharing your knowledge on both sides of this industry on this topic that's so important.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate you spending your afternoon with us.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having us.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_01: And how we have our guests usually lead us out is just with one final bit of advice or tip.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: You can talk talk to the studio owners, you can talk to the parents, you can talk to the dancers themselves.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_01: Anything you'd like to share to lead us out regarding dancing in heels.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: Good question.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: I might have to think about that for a second.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of go back to what I was talking about earlier, just being able to really understand how to use your feet before you get in heels.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_00: And like you were saying earlier, it's it's just like being in point shoes.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to build up some strength.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_00: You have to have that base foundation before you get in the heels.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, to teachers really be I would say really be conscious about how your kids are working in the heels.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important because, you know, and I say this from experience, I um from doing a lot of athletic dancing in shoes that don't have a whole lot of padding in the bottom.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: I have, you know, these shattered sephamoid bones that have given me, you know, problems throughout my career.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so you want to make sure that your kids are dancing uh safely in them and to really be hypersensitive to how they're using their feet in their shoes.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: And also uh one other thing to pay attention to like the the grip of their shoes.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_00: I see um I actually just a few weeks ago I was at uh a studio and a lot of the kids were dancing in heels and they were dancing really beautifully actually.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: But the stage or studio, you know, you're always gonna get something different when it comes to floors, and that can really be a deal breaker with heels.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I always get my shoes rubbered with cat paw rubber, which is sort of a really light tread that wears down easily, so you always have a little bit.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for theater dance I I use a lot of directional changes and I really need to get into my plie and so if my foot is flipping out from under me I'm lost and uh I go to a lot of these studios where they start they're dancing and heals and they're flip-fliding away and so they're not getting the full benefit of how how you can look when you dance and heal.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I I would just be conscious of that as you're starting to introduce your students to dancing and healed because that can also you know, your feet are the foundation of your entire body.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're gripping to try to keep your feet underneath you at all times, it's gonna work its way up your body and all that leads to knee problems, alignment issues and things like that.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you really want to make sure they have a good grip and just that they're working safely and just keep longevity in mind in terms of you know when they start, they won't necessarily know how to be pros and heals right away.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: So they might do a a few things wrong and that can be harmful.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um so just be mindful of your kids and really keep um trained eyes on them, I think.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_03: I totally agreed.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like all that is amazing information and I think definitely focusing on the technique element, making sure that they know exactly what they're doing in them before they even get in them, and then once they get in them, like you said, giving that grace to let them adjust appropriately.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, depending on the style, just really making sure that the intentions are are really good and that they're understanding like who they are.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_03: Cause I think in heels, it's definitely a learning experience because you are so uncomfortable just a couple inches off the ground, and it does come with a different presence.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like I said, we're more pulled up, we're you know, we're feeling different energies.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_03: So it's definitely allowing that space for you know the students to really learn who they are as they're doing.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's the beautiful part of heels when it comes to child in them, uh, that they really get to learn who they are.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you enjoyed this week's episode all about dancing in yellow.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure to follow our guests on social media.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_01: You can find Monica at MonicaDiavana and Sky at Sky underscore Mat.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcast, Google Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure to check out IBA affiliated competition Star Talent.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: StarTalent will be celebrating their 16th season in 2022.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_01: They are thrilled to continue working with Impact Dance Adjudicators by having IBA judges on their judging panels.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_01: StarTalent holds events in Ohio, Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_01: And their national finals take place in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina from June 15th through 19th.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_01: Their goal is to provide you with an atmosphere that is fun, organized, and fair for dancers, teachers, and parents.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_01: StarTalent believes that competition is about becoming the best dancer you can be in performance and attitude.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_01: Awards are presented by category and division, and high score awards are separated by three levels.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_01: Star Talent also offers cash awards, scholarships, and title opportunities.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_01: To learn more about Star Talent and register now for their upcoming 2022 season, head to StarTalent Productions.com.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_02: Season three of Making the Impact is almost over.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_02: Coming up next, we're bringing you a listener requested topic and the season three wrap up episode.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for tuning in.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you next week.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: Until then, keep dancing.