Latest / The Touch of a Mustang / Before You Can Guide a Horse You Have to Understand Yourself with Justin Dunn | Episode 2

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Before You Can Guide a Horse You Have to Understand Yourself with Justin Dunn | Episode 2 · The Touch of a Mustang

• 0:00
  When you got your mind and your body connected to where your
• 0:02
  brain is monitoring your body systems, your muscles are
• 0:05
  relaxed, your breath is not short and shallow, your thoughts
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  are not erratic and chaotic, and you're literally presenting to
• 0:13
  the horse something so true and honest.
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  And your being, they will pick up on that, and then they will
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  be drawn out of curiosity to it because they they feel it, they
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  understand it, it. It's harmony.
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  It's an agreement. They're healers on this planet,
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  with the power to soften the suffering of mankind.
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  Yet they have remained in the recesses of the world, abused,
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  discarded, and labeled as trash. This is the touch of a Mustang.
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  I am your host, Shalise Clough, and I'm here to tell the story
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  of wild horses, Mustangs and the humans who are discovering and
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  sharing their gifts while working to protect their
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  well-being and preserve their spirit so this divine power
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  won't be lost. Join us on this quest with the
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  Wild Mustang. Justin Dunn is a Nationally
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  Recognized Trainer and Clinician that teaches Mustang
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  Horsemanship and is the owner of American Mustang School where he
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  provides Suicide Prevention and Life coaching programs to the
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  military and public. In 2023, he released his
• 1:19
  award-winning book, A Horse to Guide Me.
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  Justin developed a bitless bridle when I personally use,
• 1:23
  which is available and manufactured by Weaver Leather.
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  Justin's mission is to promote mental health and mental
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  awareness while preserving and utilizing the gifts of America's
• 1:33
  wild horses. Justin helps his clients change
• 1:35
  their mindset to find greater fulfillment and peace.
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  American Mustang School has a 100% success rate in their
• 1:42
  suicide prevention program. Justin owns nine horses
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  consisting of BLM Mustangs and rescue horses, some once
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  considered untrainable. Justin, thanks for being here.
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  I'm super excited about this conversation.
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  This bit of a full circle moment for me because you were one of
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  the trainers that really helped me with my first Mustang,
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  Sylvanie. And now it's probably 8 years
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  later, and now you're helping me launch this podcast with the 2nd
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  episode and the 1st guest on it. So thank you for all your
• 2:15
  support and for being here, and I'm really excited to talk about
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  the work that you do. And thanks for having me, she
• 2:23
  lease. This is fun.
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  This is awesome. I'm so happy to see you doing a
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  podcast, and all of your remarkable progress with your
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  Mustangs just gives me chills. Actually, I love it and that's
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  what I want for everyone. It's been an awesome journey
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  that I never could have anticipated and honestly there
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  were times I thought about giving up.
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  I mentioned this to you before I got a really stuck place when I
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  met you. And you are the one who kind of
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  reassured you can train this horse if you want to and that
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  was that was huge for me. So thank you.
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  To start off, can you just kind of share with everybody a little
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  bit about how you got involved in horses and especially how did
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  Mustangs become such a huge part of your life?
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  So my background with horses started as far back as I could
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  remember. I was probably 5 years old and I
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  had a little horse, Little Pony. His name was Chico, and I went
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  to him to basically seek refuge or cause gaps and you know,
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  dominant, repetitive thoughts that I was having due to my
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  parents divorcing. And that's not a fun thing to go
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  through for anyone. So especially as a child in the
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  behavioral development stages of the 5-6 year old horses really
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  just made the world normal to me.
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  Kind of Fast forward to Mustangs.
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  They they did it again for me as an adult and you know they
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  command an undivided attention from me personally.
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  So getting my first Mustang I was intrigued as I explained in
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  the book. But my second Mustang just
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  captured so much more of my attention.
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  My being it took me 14 days to touch him and he had been
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  handled before but but very negatively.
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  He he looked at it as the humans were a threat and just didn't
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  want any part of it. So for me to invest the time it
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  took to touch him, the very first touch, something happened
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  and it's a little difficult to describe, but the first time I
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  touched him, I knew right then that there was something much
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  bigger than both of us that I wanted to explore.
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  You know, it's kind of like the unknown.
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  No Fear came into play, no nothing human as far as
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  limitations existed in that very moment of that first touch.
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  So I was hooked. There is something undescribable
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  about it. Do you think part of you
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  recognizing that was because it was difficult, that it he wasn't
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  maybe as easy as some of the other horses?
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  Or you couldn't just go up and touch him, right?
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  Away, Yeah, I think. I think what happened is they
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  caused us to develop an awareness if we want to continue
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  to the engagement. I had to present to him
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  something worthy for him to even want to be with.
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  And in doing that I had to look at myself and what exactly am I
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  presenting? Why is the cause and effect
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  taking place here? And I should say today, I know a
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  whole lot more than I did back then.
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  And each horse since then has prepared me for the next horse,
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  next human, which leads to today's that initial contact
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  with that second Mustang discovery about myself.
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  And that was looking inward and then presenting outward,
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  observing feedback from the Mustang, from from the horse,
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  and being willing to make changes and present again and
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  develop what we call a feedback loop.
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  But I must say, I didn't know any of these things that we're
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  getting ready to discuss. You know, I went into it as a
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  erratic, chaotic thinker, erratic, chaotic actions and
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  thinking I had it together, thinking I knew, you know what,
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  what I was doing. But the the, you know, the
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  actual clarity through engagement, I started to
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  realize, Oh my gosh, I'm. I'm not.
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  I don't have, I don't have control of myself.
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  How am I supposed to, you know, get control of this Mustang,
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  which I later learned I couldn't control him.
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  He's too much too powerful. That's something that really
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  surprises me. That experience of not maybe
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  having that control is very typical of people and working
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  with horses and Mustangs in particular.
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  What do you think it was that allowed you to recognize that
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  maybe it wasn't the horse to blame, maybe it was something
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  that you personally needed to change, And I've even
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  experienced that myself a lot of times.
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  We think, all right, I need to, you know, get different
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  equipment or I need to, you know, just find different ways
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  to be in control to maybe, like, fix the horse instead of coming
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  and looking at ourselves and figuring out like, oh, maybe
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  this is something with me that needs fix, not the horse.
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  Well, I've learned that the things that are most obvious or
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  the hardest to see right in front of our eyes.
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  Whenever I look at a Mustang horse today, I'll look at them,
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  but then I look at them again for what they really are and
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  they and they show me how to look inward and align myself and
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  then properly present, observe feedback from them, willingness
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  in myself to change and present again to get desired results.
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  If I try to force or take anything, the alignments are off
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  and the horse responds. If they're way off, he'll react
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  and I can explain the difference as we go on.
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  Whenever I would go inward and align 4 things within myself,
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  the horse willingly flowed to me or willingly came with me.
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  If I got out of alignment within myself, the horse would resist
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  or definitely show signs of resentment.
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  So in order to really create willingness in the horse to
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  present or give feedback and desirable results, I had to
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  align 4 things. Four things that I have to align
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  today and which I learned over the course of 20 years.
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  Four things, two pathways of communication, an inner pathway
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  and an outer pathway. Inner pathway is obviously for
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  me. It's obvious that I have to
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  control my thoughts, control my emotions.
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  The outer has controlled my attitude and controlled my
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  actions. When those four things are in
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  alignment and presented correctly, not forcing or not
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  taking the horse will come right over to me, no problem.
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  So that's that's probably the best answer for that question.
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  This seems like it's something you recognized a little bit in
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  your first pony, Chico, that the way approached him really
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  changed that. I mean, you were a young kid
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  when that was happening. That's not usually insights
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  people get. Do you think or do you think
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  that's something that kind of naturally comes with the horse?
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  Well, I do know that as a human specie, we're born into this
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  world disoriented or the only specie that way.
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  So exposure to the horse from five years old, I started really
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  discovering what I can look back on now as far as reflectively
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  thinking about it. I discovered about 10 years of
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  age go look inward. What if I didn't know what to
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  do? What would I do?
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  And I would just go inward and think what what should I do?
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  And then I would come up with an answer and present it, you know,
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  in other words, example. I wouldn't know how to lead a
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  horse. This particular horse, when he
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  didn't want to go, I didn't know.
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  Which is a problem, I think lots of people have horses, you know,
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  like trying to get them to do what we want them to do.
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  Yeah. So I would pull on him and he
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  would pull on me. And then we, of course, we know
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  who's going to win that tug of war.
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  And then I would get scared because you know, I didn't want
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  him to run away. And then I couldn't catch him
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  and just all these little thoughts go through a 10 year
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  old's mind. So I'd just start singing to him
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  and then he would just follow me wherever I went.
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  Looking back on it, I know that I changed my thoughts, my
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  emotion, my attitude and ultimately my action.
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  I wasn't pulling on him. I'd just walk away and he'd come
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  with me, you know, willingly. So that was probably the first
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  discovery without really knowing how to explain it to anyone, but
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  looking at it today, I can explain it very clearly.
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  When did you recognize that as a 10 year old or is that something
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  you kind of realized later on that what you were changing when
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  you were doing that was your was the way you were thinking about
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  the situation, the emotions you were having about it changing
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  from, you know, this intense desire and need to have them
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  with you to letting go of that control?
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  Is that something you realized at a young age or did come over?
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  Time. But we need to give you one
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  answer. Like yes.
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  However, it's not that simple. It was a glimpse into the future
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  and it. Was kind of a start of it.
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  Yeah, it was a start. So the compounding effect is,
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  you know, law of compensation time going on.
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  It reaffirmed that initial practice that I did with that
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  little horse that OK, I'm on to something now.
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  I didn't just pick it up and keep on going from 10 years old.
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  There was a lot of, I'll call it outward influences or
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  distractions in in that. But yeah, as I'm sitting here
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  today looking back on it, yeah, that's when I first probably say
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  yes. I discovered that's what we got
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  to do. We got to go inward, get in
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  alignment with those four things present and when it is in
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  harmony or agreement with the horse and nature, things will
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  flow to us in an attraction. We attract it at that point.
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  So I'm a human and that and obviously a horse is a horse and
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  they're strong, but we share a lot of the same things.
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  We actually share the four things.
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  Thoughts, emotions, attitude, action, whatever they're
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  thinking, they're reflecting in their body through action, their
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  non verbal communication. But it's still the same like.
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  You didn't start becoming a horse trainer at 12 years old.
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  There was a lot in between there and you talk about with both
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  Chico and then the second Mustang you had, how they helped
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  you to get out of your head, out of your racing thoughts.
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  Yeah, 'cause what it is, is when we're disoriented and then we're
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  influenced by social constructs, we could just call it or you
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  know, where we live, our environment.
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  By social constructs, you're talking about the expectations
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  around us. Yeah, like go to school, get a
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  degree, get a job, retire, die. Yeah, as a simple way to to say
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  it, we develop. Or I I'll just speak for myself.
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  I've developed doubts. I've developed fears, and it
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  didn't really have coping mechanisms for those fears or
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  those doubts. Horses, they, they don't care
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  about those things. They don't care about status,
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  race, fortune, fame, none of that stuff.
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  The only thing they care about is how much we care about them.
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  In order to prove it to them, we have to care about ourselves and
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  present what we expect. So I wanted to start paying
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  attention to how I thought they perceived me and how I perceive
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  myself and how far apart were those.
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  So the development of awareness starts to take place because
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  outside influences definitely have an effect on us.
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  But we have a choice based on what we choose to think about a
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  thought that pops in or an emotion from that thought.
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  And then ultimately an action and practicing horsemanship get
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  to develop the ability or exercise a muscle that we all
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  know we have, we just don't know how to exercise it and get real
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  time feedback, Nanosecond feedback from a horse, a Mustang
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  is very good at this because they're acutely aware of their
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  surroundings. They are think to survive
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  beings, they analyze everything, life and death.
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  So it's very real to them. They abide in laws of nature, so
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  that way they can sustain life efficiently, effectively,
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  generation after generation. If they break those laws of
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  nature, it's usually penalty of death.
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  See, we can drift out of those. We don't have to stay within
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  those or abide in those. We actually do things to kind of
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  defy those laws. I mean we build a airplane to
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  defy gravity. You know, we parachute and defy
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  gravity. Horses, you know, they
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  understand those and they they don't really try to do that.
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  So whenever we want to present ourselves to them, we have to
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  kind of let things go. Doubts, fears, preconceived
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  notions, the, you know, the past, dwelling on the past,
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  anticipating the future, have to bring ourselves into the moment
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  and present something true and honest to them.
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  And that is the most efficient, effective way to develop a
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  relationship and definitely a willing partner in the
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  relationship. Whenever I would align with the
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  laws of nature, with the spiritual element to and create
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  an agreement or or harmonize with the horse, they flow right
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  to me. The the information becomes
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  available. They'll flow right to me because
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  they see and feel the alignments.
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  They can look at a person and perceive them as something that
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  is be a benefit, so they'll they'll come to that.
• 17:28
  If it's no benefit, they rebuild.
• 17:31
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• 17:34
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• 17:36
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• 17:40
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• 17:43
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• 17:48
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  Horses really don't care about our outside characteristics, but
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  they do seem acutely aware of our fears and doubts and like
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  you say, the way we perceive ourselves.
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  So those worries that we have about ourselves, the horse seems
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  to catch on to. I know in my experience, anxiety
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  that I had about things going a particular way or worries seem
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  to reflect a lot about in my inability to do what I was
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  wanting to do with my Mustang when we were brand new.
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  Yeah, see horses, The Mustangs, we'll just stick with Mustangs.
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  They analyze things, life and death, so they're acutely aware
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  of their surroundings. They think to survive.
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  So if we're paying attention to an artificial barrier is what it
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  is, it's restriction in our mind causes tension in our bodies.
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  They're going to pay attention to that.
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  If our shoulders are tense and they're up about 3mm, if our
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  breathing is short and shallow. If our thoughts are racing and
• 18:52
  and we're nervous, they they just are aware of it.
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  It's not like that's a bad or a good it's just an awareness when
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  we present to them and then they they respond in a manner.
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  I I use an interactive system to get predictable results.
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  So whenever I present to them, they'll respond in a manner to
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  based on the individual 'cause me the effect of presenting
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  differently, being willing to change, and in doing that
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  interactive system for predictable results.
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  Goals are are there, but I don't have any specific goal I'm
• 19:30
  trying to achieve in a specific timeline, so that frees up a lot
• 19:34
  of pressure, a lot of stresses. The energy, which is
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  information, can actually flow in a circular feedback loop
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  between myself and the horse. I'm going to add one more
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  element. When you got your mind and your
• 19:47
  body connected to where your brain is monitoring your body
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  systems, your muscles are relaxed, your short, your your
• 19:53
  breath is not short and shallow, your thoughts are not erratic
• 19:57
  and chaotic, and you're literally presenting to the
• 20:00
  horse something so true and honest.
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  And your being, they will pick up on that, and then they will
• 20:06
  be drawn out of curiosity to it. Because they they feel it, they
• 20:11
  understand it. It's harmony, it's an agreement.
• 20:15
  So whenever that happens, things go great.
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  You know, obviously when we're not in alignment and we're
• 20:22
  presenting, things don't go so great.
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  That's when it's like, OK, good, this I get some feedback to make
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  a different, make a change and make a different presentation.
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  And that's the learning, that's the that's the how, that's the
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  how, That's the process and that's what it's so hard to
• 20:43
  define because I can't create that energy or information and I
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  can't destroy it. It's unique to each individual
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  and horse that shares it and when it's recognized, you know,
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  and then that horse they know and then the partnership or
• 20:59
  relationship grows into something so wonderful that, you
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  know, if we didn't have horses, we'd all be really in trouble,
• 21:09
  so. That's something that makes it
• 21:12
  so that you can do what you do so well is that you said you
• 21:16
  know something goes wrong and you say good.
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  That is not the approach that most people take with their
• 21:21
  horses. They probably take the approach
• 21:24
  something went wrong. Now I need to fix it, whereas
• 21:28
  you're taking that as information.
• 21:30
  Absolutely. If, if if it was easy and horses
• 21:36
  would just, you know, I'd do something.
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  They give me feedback and there's no discovery, there's no
• 21:44
  unknown. It's just cut and dry.
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  I would get bored myself and probably move on.
• 21:50
  But the advanced intricacies of horsemanship, the more I learn
• 21:55
  about it, the more I realize I don't know.
• 21:57
  And that keeps me curious. That keeps me wanting and
• 22:01
  desiring. And whenever you go into it with
• 22:04
  that mindset, horses pick up on it and they want to give you
• 22:07
  what you need the most. They're willingly ready to
• 22:12
  reveal to you the most beautiful, true and honest
• 22:15
  things they possess. And they're all different.
• 22:18
  I've never met an identical horse.
• 22:22
  They're all different. There's always gems to mind.
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  There's there's new discoveries to be made.
• 22:27
  And it's not just from the horse.
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  It's about ourselves. We we go inward, we present
• 22:33
  outward and then we repeat it based on information the horse
• 22:37
  gives us. And you know, I call it a
• 22:40
  feedback loop. We also do that with the one who
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  spoke all things into existence. It's no different.
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  The horse and us were created by the same being or intelligence
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  that created all things. So in alignment with that, a
• 23:00
  spiritual realm comes into play. And you know, I think the Native
• 23:04
  Americans, they had it down really well and definitely
• 23:10
  something there for us all to learn.
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  The the thing that I really love the most about that spiritual
• 23:18
  element is we'll get information when it's the right time, when
• 23:25
  we need it the most, when we're ready to receive it, when we've
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  aligned everything and we've opened enough to where it can
• 23:31
  flow right in. It's not forced, it's not taken.
• 23:36
  We're doing things to attract it.
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  The information, the energy, however person wants to describe
• 23:43
  it, But the horses they know, they pick up on it and they
• 23:47
  actually help us get it faster then if we could try to do it on
• 23:52
  our own. Yeah, I really love that.
• 23:54
  I definitely, when I got my Mustang, was not planning on all
• 23:57
  the lessons that I would learn from her.
• 24:00
  And you talk about, you know, God or our creator and how that
• 24:07
  be all in alignment. And I know for me, like, it
• 24:10
  almost seems like there's kind of an awareness that something
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  was coming down the pipeline in my life and there was a horse
• 24:19
  there and would teach me the lessons I needed, you know, in
• 24:24
  my personal life as I was trying to to figure them out.
• 24:28
  That's something that's been really powerful to me, is how
• 24:34
  how that all comes together. It's life.
• 24:37
  It's it's a life. It's beautiful.
• 24:40
  And we weren't made to come here and suffer.
• 24:44
  The horses don't suffer. They're they're enlightened, No
• 24:47
  struggle. That's that's kind of what I
• 24:49
  defined. Enlightenment is no struggle,
• 24:52
  and they're just fine out there eating grass, doing their thing.
• 24:57
  When we invite them into the human element, there's a
• 25:02
  awesomeness to it. And presenting ourselves, you
• 25:07
  know, almost coming out of the human element that we've been,
• 25:10
  you know, this, I guess we've been brainwashed to.
• 25:14
  Do we get to drop all of that temporarily or forever and truly
• 25:22
  present ourselves to another living being that isn't
• 25:26
  corrupted, especially a wild Mustang?
• 25:28
  You know, I'm not. I got to clarify this real
• 25:30
  quick. When I say wild Mustang, I I
• 25:33
  don't mean not gentle. They're they're gentle.
• 25:36
  We don't gentle. A wild Mustang, They're already
• 25:40
  gentle. Wild just means uninterrupted by
• 25:43
  man. It's kind of like a wildflower,
• 25:46
  you know? We didn't plant it.
• 25:47
  It grows wild. It's nature, you know, grown.
• 25:50
  Same thing with the wild horse. So inviting them into the human
• 25:54
  element, done correctly, we are going to probably make the
• 25:59
  biggest transition or transformation in order to
• 26:03
  create this relationship that we are so desiring.
• 26:08
  So when I say wild Mustang, it's not like I go and take this
• 26:11
  horse and gentle them because they're, you know, they're crazy
• 26:15
  or anything like that. It's just that they're they
• 26:19
  abide in laws of nature and if a person doesn't understand even
• 26:22
  what those laws are, it's going to be real tricky to to get
• 26:25
  anything accomplished. And that's where a lot of people
• 26:32
  make mistakes trying to force compliance and go against laws
• 26:38
  of nature that that horse was born into and and abides by.
• 26:42
  And then the the results are, you know, not to the
• 26:47
  satisfaction of the person. So then they label the horse a
• 26:50
  certain label generally, you know, wrong and it's not fair.
• 26:56
  So I just want to point that out as far as when we're talking
• 26:59
  about wild Mustangs, they're they're grown in nature and we
• 27:04
  have to invite them into the human element.
• 27:06
  And in order to create a relationship, we've got to be
• 27:12
  willing to change and pretty much go their way rather than
• 27:17
  expect them to come our way, if that makes sense.
• 27:21
  Yeah, And it's really interesting the way you
• 27:24
  discussed enlightenment and it being the absence of struggle.
• 27:27
  Because it seems like a lot of the time when we bring horses
• 27:33
  into our lives, we also unfortunately kind of bring that
• 27:36
  struggle if we're not willing to learn from them.
• 27:41
  Let go of a lot of the rules of horsemanship is what I at least
• 27:47
  have found. A lot of the things I thought
• 27:49
  were the ways that you were supposed to do it didn't work
• 27:53
  because it did create struggle, and it wasn't really until
• 27:57
  stepped back and thought, OK, this isn't working.
• 28:00
  Or sometimes even like, I just don't feel good about this
• 28:03
  advice I'm getting. It just doesn't feel right.
• 28:05
  You know that that struggle would disappear.
• 28:11
  Well, through traditional horse training practices, it's
• 28:17
  misleading. You know what works on one horse
• 28:20
  isn't going to work on another. Cookie cutter mentality is
• 28:23
  really ineffective in the long run.
• 28:27
  Goal oriented mindsets, You're definitely going to get into
• 28:31
  trouble because you know winners and losers, they both have
• 28:35
  goals. Winners have a interactive
• 28:39
  system for predictable results and the goals come.
• 28:45
  But if we follow a system to get those predictable results,
• 28:50
  there's it's so much less stress.
• 28:52
  It's so much more engagement or clarity through engagement then
• 28:57
  rather goal focus or goal oriented, people will just say
• 29:04
  focus on getting a saddle on a horse in a certain amount of
• 29:07
  time. And yeah, I fell into that in
• 29:12
  the early days and like, well, OK, I got this goal and I've got
• 29:17
  to do it within a certain amount of time.
• 29:20
  Well, I would focus on that so much.
• 29:22
  I would, I would skip a bunch of stuff and there'd be holes in
• 29:25
  training, we call it. And it's like this horse doesn't
• 29:28
  even want to stand here and relax, much less let me put a
• 29:31
  saddle and pad on its back. So the whole point is develop a
• 29:37
  system and, you know, it's got to be an interactive system
• 29:41
  because they're two living creatures, you know, me and the
• 29:43
  horse. And then we've got to do it to
• 29:46
  where we follow the system and get predictable results.
• 29:50
  And then that'll gauge how much time it'll take.
• 29:53
  I mean, it actually just takes the time it takes.
• 29:55
  And you'll also find that it's a lot shorter than what you'd
• 29:58
  initially think because tensions in the body are released
• 30:03
  restrictions in the mind. And not when I say restrictions
• 30:06
  in mind, I'm talking about doubt, fear, anxiety, confusion.
• 30:12
  All of those are just restrictions in the mind that
• 30:14
  cause tension in the body. And when the brain is monitoring
• 30:17
  body systems, it's saying get away from this and dependent on
• 30:22
  the Mustang or the person, their survival instinct, however
• 30:26
  strong that is, will generally determine how difficult it's
• 30:30
  going to be to try to force compliance.
• 30:33
  And when you have an interactive system and you find out how
• 30:37
  acute that survival instinct is, played with hundreds of Mustangs
• 30:44
  and their range is all over the place and then it changes as
• 30:49
  time goes on. You know, I'll have a horse.
• 30:51
  We talk about Harley. He was labeled as untrainable by
• 30:56
  the alone. And the the very guy that kind
• 31:00
  of signed off because of who I was, he told me that he's like,
• 31:04
  if there's anybody else this horse would go to long term, he
• 31:06
  wouldn't go with you. And that's a little Harley,
• 31:09
  little Black Horse. He was going under panels, over
• 31:12
  panels. He's so scared, running from
• 31:14
  everything. And they said they're going to
• 31:16
  hold that. We see thousands of horses come
• 31:18
  through Canyon City. This particular horse, we would
• 31:21
  not OK him to go with just anybody.
• 31:24
  But I'm here to tell you I I offloaded him at my house in my
• 31:29
  round pen. He shook like, thank you for
• 31:33
  busting me out of jail. And then I was riding in five
• 31:35
  days. I hold an interactive system to
• 31:38
  get predictable results. I didn't force compliance.
• 31:41
  I didn't force submission with pain or fear of pain.
• 31:44
  I asked him questions, which questions or pressure and
• 31:50
  release of pressure as a thank you.
• 31:52
  So on a scale of one to 10, I always start at A1, ask with
• 31:56
  pressure and then increase the intensity of the pressure to get
• 31:59
  the desired response and then release it as a thank you and
• 32:02
  then wash, rinse, repeat. And that's how it goes forever.
• 32:05
  So I never use bits or spurs or anything that would cause a
• 32:09
  restriction in that horse's mind or tension in his body.
• 32:13
  So he doesn't know to fear me. He doesn't know that I'm ever,
• 32:17
  there's pain. There's never any of that use.
• 32:20
  So he doesn't even know how strong he is.
• 32:22
  You know, 5 year old kids can lead him around and they bump on
• 32:25
  the lead rope. He he knows to come to that.
• 32:27
  It's not like I tied him to a truck and, you know, forced him
• 32:30
  to do it. That never is good.
• 32:33
  Inviting them into the human element correctly and then
• 32:37
  following this interactive system to get these predictable
• 32:40
  results. And you find out about the
• 32:42
  individual and then make those necessary changes for that
• 32:46
  individual. When you talk about your
• 32:47
  interactive system and also like your feedback loop, you're
• 32:51
  basically saying that it's almost like a conversation.
• 32:55
  Not verbally right, but you look, you do something, you look
• 33:01
  and see that how the horse responds and then you adjust
• 33:05
  according to that. Yes.
• 33:06
  I designed a series of five questions and follow rules and
• 33:13
  philosophies and beliefs and apply those as needed per
• 33:18
  individual. And whenever that interactive
• 33:22
  system is utilized, the horses can relate.
• 33:28
  You know, they're they're creatures of habit.
• 33:30
  They understand processes, so following specific system and
• 33:37
  allowing the processes to take place, they recognize very
• 33:42
  quickly that they have a voice. And in those questions, I'm
• 33:50
  asking them what they need for me to help them grow and develop
• 33:56
  into the horse that I desire, into the horse that they want to
• 34:00
  be. That I, you know, I want them to
• 34:02
  work in their sweet spot. So I don't want to ask a horse
• 34:07
  to do something that he's not capable of doing, of course, but
• 34:11
  but not comfortable doing either.
• 34:14
  It's it's just not going to work in what I do.
• 34:17
  You know, at American Mustang School, we're promoting mental
• 34:21
  health and Wellness. If the horse isn't mentally
• 34:24
  healthy and well, it's going to be very difficult for me to add
• 34:28
  in a human and allow that horse to be a team mate or team member
• 34:33
  and depend on them to do things where I fall short.
• 34:39
  So when I interact with a horse, yes, the conversation is I'm
• 34:45
  asking questions and I'm making changes within myself to present
• 34:49
  to them to get desirable results because that gives them a voice.
• 34:54
  It's not that I'm trying to force them to comply and do what
• 34:57
  I say, it's I want to ask you to help me, Come with me, Let's do
• 35:01
  this mission together. And then, yeah, you're showing
• 35:05
  me a better way. Cool.
• 35:05
  Let's let's do it that way. Because why would I want to
• 35:09
  inhibit that horse's ability to go and pinpoint what that person
• 35:14
  needs the most and and not give them?
• 35:18
  Because I did something to create a restriction in the mind
• 35:21
  or attention in the body and they're they're worried about me
• 35:25
  rather than performing at their highest you know level to to do
• 35:32
  what they're called to do in this life.
• 35:34
  You know, I I understand that I can't interrupt, that I can't
• 35:39
  irritate, that I can't obstruct it.
• 35:41
  Is is probably the best word. One thing that I think is super
• 35:45
  important that you said is talking about a timeline.
• 35:49
  I know, especially with Mustang, that was one thing when I first
• 35:52
  got my mare that probably really created a lot of unnecessary
• 35:56
  struggle for me because I didn't know much about Mustangs.
• 36:00
  You get in the Mustang world, first thing you see are the
• 36:02
  extreme Mustang makeovers and all these people that are
• 36:06
  training their horses in 30, sixty, 90 days, they're just
• 36:10
  fantastic. And so for me, I started
• 36:13
  comparing myself to that and that was a huge place where I
• 36:17
  would start feeling like I couldn't do it, like I wasn't
• 36:20
  good enough rather than this is brand new virtually, you know
• 36:25
  and I have learning to do and that's going to take more time.
• 36:29
  And also I think it depends too on on the way we want to do it.
• 36:35
  For some reason some horses will react OK to force you know they
• 36:42
  are pretty compliant, can force compliance with some horses.
• 36:49
  But with my first mayor that wasn't the case at all.
• 36:53
  She made it pretty clear that you're going to have to figure
• 36:55
  something else out because I'm not just going along with what
• 36:58
  you want letting go of that timeline.
• 37:03
  But, and I I would even say it's still maybe good to have goals
• 37:07
  but to not put a timeline on it. That's a lot to unpack as far as
• 37:13
  what time we have, but it's summarizing, it's based on the
• 37:17
  individual horse and it's based on the individual person and
• 37:21
  then the connections that are made there.
• 37:23
  So yes, you can force compliance and then you know time and
• 37:27
  memory come into play. But different horses will
• 37:30
  tolerate different levels and degrees of force compliance.
• 37:33
  Yes, of course I could go make a horse, do what I needed to do in
• 37:37
  a 30 day period, no problem. And you know, if I'm training
• 37:40
  for a client and my goals are to do that and make money and then
• 37:44
  the horse takes second place, yeah, no problem.
• 37:47
  But when I follow philosophies of the horse comes first,
• 37:49
  everything else second, I can't do it.
• 37:51
  I'd be breaking my own rules and then I wouldn't be creating the
• 37:56
  willingness in the individual horse that that I'm after and
• 38:01
  there's there's going to be some residue left from from then on
• 38:07
  that's probably going to be a negative at some point.
• 38:10
  So you you said something about extreme Mustang makeovers and
• 38:14
  the and comparing see that's competition.
• 38:18
  A competitive mindset will always do that in in my
• 38:21
  horsemanship I want creative mindset so I don't have any I
• 38:26
  don't have anything to prove the the I've done Mustang makeovers
• 38:31
  and I looked at it in two ways. I'm like well I can go in here
• 38:35
  and I can put this horse 2nd place, I can train, I can get
• 38:39
  them doing anything. Judges up there want to see and
• 38:43
  you know we basically pay for an opinion.
• 38:45
  So I can, I can do that. I mean I know how it works and I
• 38:48
  can do it. However, the people sitting in
• 38:53
  those stands, if I'm training this horse to adopt to them,
• 38:57
  I've got to kind of train the horse to them.
• 39:00
  You know just because I can do it doesn't mean they can do it.
• 39:02
  And then where's the where's the advantage or where's the.
• 39:06
  It's almost a disservice to the horse at that point.
• 39:09
  You know, I make promises to horses when I'm training them or
• 39:11
  when I'm creating a relationship with them.
• 39:14
  And I might just pause and say I've adopted every Mustang
• 39:18
  makeover horse I did back. No one else got them because
• 39:22
  promises. But the thing about it is yeah
• 39:26
  if we're in competitive mindset we can force compliance to these
• 39:30
  horses and is that good for them in the long run that that's kind
• 39:35
  of up to the person that's doing it.
• 39:37
  You know do they like yeah this is no problem then that's that
• 39:41
  that's on them. My perspective is the horse
• 39:45
  takes second to anything we're we're in we're in trouble.
• 39:49
  And I I never wanted to go into that realm.
• 39:53
  I I played with it and toyed with it, but it just I was too
• 39:56
  far into understanding how to build a relationship with with
• 40:01
  the wild Horse before I did any of that stuff.
• 40:04
  And I was there for experience more than anything.
• 40:08
  And then it was comforting to know I was in a creative mindset
• 40:12
  and and the pressures were off to get to see what happens to
• 40:16
  people in a competitive mindset and it really tears them up.
• 40:20
  I had really good friends that I competed with, we'll call it.
• 40:24
  And I watched them have breakdowns right in front of me.
• 40:26
  And, you know, I tried to be consoling and, you know,
• 40:30
  uplifting and, you know, help them because it's a lot of
• 40:33
  pressure on people to try to compete against other people.
• 40:36
  And, you know, they, they see one little perspective of that.
• 40:41
  And then their mind just carries them all the way away forever,
• 40:45
  you know, into realms that are uncontrollable.
• 40:50
  And that's not what it's about. You know, there's healthy
• 40:53
  competition. Don't get me wrong.
• 40:54
  I'm not knocking Mustang makeovers.
• 40:56
  I'm not knocking competing on horses in any discipline
• 41:00
  whatsoever. What I would knock is if it
• 41:04
  tears down the mental Wellness in the person or the horse.
• 41:10
  And the end result is, you know, trauma that can't be, you know,
• 41:16
  repaired. That's not what we want, you
• 41:19
  know that. I know great minded people,
• 41:21
  great minded horses competing together and doing wonderful
• 41:24
  things. And yeah, they got it down, they
• 41:27
  got it right, so. It's such a tricky balance
• 41:30
  because there is, you know, there's something really amazing
• 41:35
  about seeing someone compete at a really high level or succeed
• 41:38
  in, you know, just some really amazing feats.
• 41:42
  But like you say on the other end, there can be kind of a dark
• 41:45
  side to that. And so it seems like there's a
• 41:48
  really tricky balance to be able to reach high levels without
• 41:55
  sacrificing yourself or you know, in this case, horses.
• 42:00
  How do you think we can make sure that we're keeping that
• 42:03
  balance for people who are wanting to compete?
• 42:08
  I don't compete per SE, but as I already said in my head, I was
• 42:12
  competing. Even if you're not going into
• 42:14
  competition, how do you keep that balance to not be comparing
• 42:18
  but still push yourself to improve?
• 42:21
  Well, you got to consciously be aware of what you're thinking,
• 42:26
  feeling, attitude, actions. So if you're in a fixed mindset,
• 42:30
  you know kind of bracing against change, not willing to change,
• 42:36
  you got to develop an awareness. You got to become conscious of
• 42:39
  what mindset you're in. If you're in a growth mindset
• 42:42
  where you're curious and and you want to discover, you know, all
• 42:47
  the beautiful things horses have to offer us as humans, that's my
• 42:52
  advice. Go for that.
• 42:53
  Because the the most successful competitors I've ever talked
• 42:57
  with or met, they are in that creative mindset and they'll
• 43:03
  rise to levels so much faster and further than than those that
• 43:09
  are in the you know the competitive mindset that's so
• 43:12
  limiting and it you know goal oriented.
• 43:15
  You know the the successful people are in alignment.
• 43:19
  They're in alignment with their themselves and what they
• 43:22
  present, the feedback they get, the changes are willing to be
• 43:25
  made in the presentation. Again horse picks up on that and
• 43:29
  will perform better for them than they can actually train
• 43:31
  them to do. I've talked with a lot of people
• 43:34
  and they'll they'll say, man, yeah, I wanted Tim, I'll just
• 43:37
  give you an example. I wanted him to do flying lead
• 43:40
  changes, but he showed me a much better way and he I didn't train
• 43:45
  him to do that. He did it on his own.
• 43:48
  And I know exactly what they're talking about because I did a
• 43:50
  camp for children with cancer for six years and those horses
• 43:53
  would do things for those kids I didn't train them to do.
• 43:56
  And that's how real it is. This is the if I had to find
• 44:01
  something that was real in this life, this is the most
• 44:05
  authentically real thing I've ever played with.
• 44:07
  You know wild Mustang horses and people and then watching them
• 44:12
  interact and transformation be made in people.
• 44:17
  Horses are pretty stable in that.
• 44:19
  But I've I've had some traumatized horses where I've
• 44:21
  helped them you know go through transformation and and reassess
• 44:26
  and re perceive things to where they're comfortable and thriving
• 44:29
  and their lives are enriched. But mostly it's people these
• 44:33
  days. You know, I have nine horses and
• 44:34
  people come through the gates and I get to see my own horses
• 44:38
  that I know very well. Work.
• 44:39
  I don't even wanna get woo, woo, but work magic, you know, work
• 44:42
  miracles. They'll do things I can't train
• 44:44
  them to do. Yeah, I've.
• 44:46
  I've seen that too. Just in And when I was comparing
• 44:50
  myself just how much fear and doubt crept in, even to the
• 44:54
  point like going back to fixed mindset, which is definitely
• 44:59
  something my horse has kind of taught me to overcome.
• 45:02
  Because when I was young in school, I did very well.
• 45:05
  So everything I learned was like you're smart or you're not, you
• 45:08
  know, like you either get an A or you don't.
• 45:11
  And so that's kind of the mindset that I definitely
• 45:14
  developed just through culture. But that doubt and that fear was
• 45:19
  definitely a big piece to me and my horsemanship, like thinking,
• 45:25
  you know, I just don't have what other people have.
• 45:29
  Or maybe my horse would be better off with someone else,
• 45:34
  'cause I don't, I don't know how to do this.
• 45:36
  I'm obviously not very good at it because this is taking us
• 45:39
  years, not months type of thing. So yeah, I can.
• 45:44
  I can really relate to how, how letting go of that doubt and
• 45:49
  fear. And you kind of said that that's
• 45:51
  something you struggled with doubt and fear probably early
• 45:55
  on, I'm guessing. What were some of the ways that
• 45:58
  you overcame that or learned how to address that in a better way,
• 46:02
  'cause I think I don't know. For me, at least, it's still
• 46:06
  something that's there. But now I can maybe talk myself
• 46:09
  down from it better than I could before.
• 46:11
  Yeah, so doubts and fear. No one's immune to that.
• 46:16
  We're all gonna go through those type things.
• 46:20
  The the single most important thing is developing awareness
• 46:24
  and realizing what you perceive yourself to be presenting to the
• 46:30
  world and what the world perceives you, and then how far
• 46:33
  apart those are. Whenever you can realize or
• 46:37
  become so aware of yourself, doubt and fear, they they fall
• 46:42
  away. Or maybe they're just managed.
• 46:46
  You have you have ways to manage them because there's going to
• 46:50
  keep coming back. I mean, I'm not immune to doubt
• 46:52
  and I'm not immune to fear, even to this day.
• 46:55
  But I can manage it so much better.
• 46:57
  Having played with wild horses for so long, I I don't even look
• 47:02
  at doubt and fear the same way. Whenever maybe the emotion comes
• 47:07
  from, you know, thoughts of doubt or fear, my attitude is
• 47:12
  triggered to be like, oh cool, a challenge.
• 47:14
  We get to figure this out. This is something we're going to
• 47:17
  grow from as opposed to before it might have been, man, I don't
• 47:21
  know. And then that fear of the
• 47:25
  unknown was probably worse than the actual thing we're doing.
• 47:29
  So, you know, you want to, you want to overcome those kind of
• 47:33
  doubts and fears, strap yourself to it and go, you know, it's
• 47:37
  it's just that simple. A lot of people, they struggle
• 47:40
  with that first step. You know, I strap myself to a
• 47:43
  wild Mustang horses and I went and that helped me drop doubt
• 47:49
  fears or learn to manage them. And through time the awareness
• 47:54
  just becomes so strong, especially in the three things
• 47:59
  that I I really value and that's mind body, spiritual connection
• 48:03
  within myself. Doubt and fear.
• 48:07
  You know maybe I just understand the definition better but but
• 48:10
  there's nothing to doubt. It's there's just really nothing
• 48:14
  to doubt. It's an artificial bearer that
• 48:16
  that restricts the mind and then causes tensions in the body.
• 48:20
  And you know, once you're stay centered long enough, you'll
• 48:24
  start to feel you're coming off that center and then you can do
• 48:27
  things, think and do things to become different, which is
• 48:32
  centeredness, go back, get back centered and no struggle, which
• 48:38
  is enlightenment. So those those things, they've
• 48:42
  got to be practiced and I'll go. I'll keep referring to my
• 48:45
  interactive system for predictable results when I start
• 48:48
  to feel off center. I know what to do these days to
• 48:53
  trigger, you know, responses that are going to give me those
• 48:57
  predictable results. I can give you examples like
• 49:00
  with horses too young horse that that may present fear or
• 49:06
  confusion or doubt anxiety. I will intentionally do
• 49:09
  something to trigger a body response of relaxation in the
• 49:12
  horse so that the brain monitoring the body can tell the
• 49:15
  brain, hey, free up restrictions of doubt and confusion and
• 49:20
  anxiety, take a deep breath, relax, and then allow those
• 49:24
  processes to catch up and go again.
• 49:28
  So in doing that, I do that to myself, away from the horn.
• 49:31
  I mean, you do that with horses where you can kind of show
• 49:36
  relaxation with yourself and that can go over to them.
• 49:40
  I got something we can do with other people.
• 49:42
  That's something that we can do for ourselves, where, like you
• 49:45
  say, if we can have the awareness, I think a lot of
• 49:48
  times we don't have that awareness.
• 49:50
  We maybe are feeling that stress and anxiety, but we're not
• 49:56
  attuned enough to ourselves to realize I'm stressed right now.
• 49:59
  That's why, you know, my heart's racing.
• 50:02
  I feel ready to explode or whatever it might be.
• 50:05
  But if we can recognize I'm starting to get stressed, this
• 50:08
  is making me uncomfortable. We can kind of take that step
• 50:11
  back, take a deep breath, change our situation, kind of all the
• 50:17
  same stuff that you're talking about, what you do with horses,
• 50:20
  right? Absolutely.
• 50:21
  Because you're a lot of people, when they feel stressed or
• 50:25
  uncomfortable, they look outward for the release.
• 50:29
  When it's go inward to get the release, When you go inward, you
• 50:34
  can control that outward. There's no way to control
• 50:39
  outward. You know, I I can't do it.
• 50:42
  I've tried. I've tried to control the horse.
• 50:44
  I've tried to control my wife. I've tried to control my kids.
• 50:47
  I've tried to control outward situations.
• 50:51
  It's not a. We're not able to do it.
• 50:55
  And I I think that goes really deep even into our culture that
• 50:58
  we're looking so much for outside easy fixes and just so
• 51:05
  many areas that I can think of when a lot of times, I would say
• 51:09
  most of the time it's something we need to change first with our
• 51:14
  thinking, which then effects our emotions and which also changes
• 51:18
  the choices we make for ourselves, the behavior that we
• 51:21
  have. Yes, because four things I can
• 51:24
  control are thoughts and emotion which is the internal pathway of
• 51:27
  communication. Attitude and action is an
• 51:29
  external pathway of communication and non verbal
• 51:32
  communication with horses or humans.
• 51:35
  If I'm in alignment with all of those things, centered harmony
• 51:38
  which is agreement, balance, I can control myself which has a
• 51:46
  great impact on the circumstance or situation I find myself in.
• 51:51
  You can almost bend reality when you get there.
• 51:56
  So people you know, they'll watch me play with a horse that
• 52:01
  they've labeled and I'll, I'll do what I'm telling you through
• 52:06
  the interactive system to get predictable results.
• 52:09
  I mean, I'm no wizard, but I've been called that once.
• 52:13
  Yeah. But it's.
• 52:16
  Looks like it sometimes when you take a horse that is not
• 52:19
  reacting well and can almost immediately change it, yeah.
• 52:24
  Yeah. It's powerful, I think.
• 52:26
  At American Mustang School had designed 5 levels of we go
• 52:30
  through in a horsemanship and practicing horsemanship, you
• 52:33
  know, and I'll just run through them real quick.
• 52:34
  But grooming for mindset, you know a lot of people groom their
• 52:37
  horse for the tack up, but are they going inward in their own
• 52:41
  self and you know, analyzing what they're thinking and then
• 52:45
  what they're presenting ultimately because whatever
• 52:48
  we're thinking and doing, we're becoming.
• 52:49
  So if I want calm, quiet thoughts, I need to be aware if
• 52:54
  that's what I've got. If I'm in the moment, I need to
• 52:57
  be aware of that thought. Am I here, or am I thinking
• 52:59
  about something in the past, or am I anticipating the future?
• 53:02
  Am I brushing this horse faster than he wants to be brushed
• 53:05
  because I'm in a hurry? I've got to get him in a trailer
• 53:07
  to get to a clinic or or whatever.
• 53:09
  I mean, I've been there. I've done it all.
• 53:11
  So I the point is, is analyze that in level one we call it,
• 53:16
  analyze what we're thinking, what we're feeling, what our
• 53:19
  attitude is and what we're presenting in action.
• 53:22
  Would you also say that for you, that's the first step to
• 53:25
  awareness is to be able to take the step back to analyze it,
• 53:29
  even if you're not really sure how to maybe analyze it well
• 53:32
  yet? I'd say at some point, yes.
• 53:35
  Today for me, before my before I'm totally consciously awake,
• 53:40
  before my feet hit the floor. I'm grooming for mindset.
• 53:44
  I I'm, I'm deciding what are my thoughts?
• 53:47
  Do I want to wake up and complain about something or do I
• 53:50
  want to wake up and compliment something?
• 53:53
  You know, generally what we think and do we become.
• 53:55
  So if I say as my eyes wake up coming back conscious, I'll
• 54:02
  think this that's grooming for mindset starts before I ever go
• 54:06
  out there and play with a horse or interact with a human.
• 54:08
  I do it myself. So my feet are coming out of the
• 54:11
  bed in process of hitting the floor, and I will make the
• 54:15
  decision by the time both of them hit.
• 54:17
  Yes, I want to compliment something today.
• 54:20
  I want to think about what I want to do and become so
• 54:24
  whenever I get up. The first thing I say to my
• 54:27
  wife, you know, is something positive, something, you know,
• 54:31
  that would create a desire for her to want to sit and have
• 54:35
  coffee with me. You know, that's the interaction
• 54:37
  that starts right there. And then I'm analyzing and and
• 54:40
  it's not hard. I'm not, I'm not trying to say,
• 54:43
  oh man, you've really got to do this.
• 54:45
  You consciously do it. It becomes natural through the
• 54:47
  subplots. So at some point you've got to,
• 54:50
  like, I got to get a handle on this.
• 54:52
  But through laws of repetition, it solidifies into a habit.
• 54:57
  And I think you say it's not hard.
• 54:59
  And when you break it down to where you're doing like one
• 55:02
  small thing, I think it becomes so it's not hard.
• 55:06
  But I think a lot of times we say instead of I'm just going to
• 55:10
  get up and compliment someone in the morning, we kind of say I
• 55:13
  want to be a more positive person.
• 55:15
  And it seems like we're fighting this battle that's not possible
• 55:19
  because we're trying to take this big chunk of who we are and
• 55:23
  these behaviors that we've learned over time again and
• 55:25
  again and again and try and just change it through sheer force,
• 55:30
  which I would say is not a very strong power compared to learned
• 55:35
  behavior. Yeah.
• 55:38
  You know, back in five years of age when I, you know, went
• 55:42
  through some things, you know, divorced my parents, I started
• 55:46
  thinking in a in a different way obviously.
• 55:49
  And and then I got glimpses of what thinking and doing and
• 55:52
  becoming would be. And then getting with horses, I
• 55:57
  got a mirror basically. It's kind of well known.
• 56:01
  You know, horses are like mirrors.
• 56:03
  But I start playing with a horse.
• 56:05
  I could see, wow, if I think and do something different, I get a
• 56:09
  different outcome or feedback and then circumstances change.
• 56:14
  So yeah, as a young age I got that glimpse.
• 56:16
  But as we grow, whether you consciously are aware or not,
• 56:20
  whatever you think and do you become, So people get into a
• 56:23
  ditch or a rut, they're thinking a certain way, they're doing a
• 56:27
  certain thing and and maybe they just start watching TVA little
• 56:32
  bit longer each day, compounding effect over time to where
• 56:35
  they're like, man, I watch five hours of TVA day, you know, and
• 56:39
  then they consciously become aware of, like, man, I'm
• 56:41
  watching 5 hours of TVA Day, yeah.
• 56:44
  This isn't what I want, which seems like the first step maybe?
• 56:49
  Yeah, and. Realize this isn't what I want
• 56:51
  anymore. Yeah.
• 56:52
  And so it happens the same way. If you consciously say I want to
• 56:56
  think and do, to become a certain way has a compounding
• 57:00
  effect, You know, years later you go, wow, I'm so thankful I
• 57:03
  started thinking and doing, you know, not watching TV because I
• 57:07
  don't, I'm not, I'm not distracted.
• 57:09
  I had time for other things and growth and development.
• 57:12
  So I become, you know, what I want to become rather than, you
• 57:16
  know, not consciously thinking and doing and becoming something
• 57:20
  I don't want to become. Horsemanship, Mustang.
• 57:22
  Horsemanship taught me that whatever I think and do and
• 57:27
  present, I become. You know that that's just the
• 57:30
  way that's the way it works. But if I'm not consciously aware
• 57:34
  of what I'm doing, I'm still becoming something, but I might
• 57:38
  as well take control of it. So the four things is how I did
• 57:41
  it. I I would, I would pay attention
• 57:44
  to what I'm thinking. How do I feel based on that
• 57:46
  thought? Because thoughts are going to
• 57:48
  come and go. I can't control the thoughts
• 57:50
  that come in. They.
• 57:51
  They do. What I can control is how I
• 57:53
  process them. Do I want to think that thought?
• 57:55
  No. Kick It Out.
• 57:57
  I want a different one. Do I want to feel emotion based
• 58:00
  on that thought? No.
• 58:02
  Change it. Take a deep breath.
• 58:04
  Relax a second. OK, now I got a handle on this.
• 58:07
  Go forward. You know, I'll be sitting on the
• 58:09
  back of a horse sometimes and trash thoughts will come into my
• 58:12
  mind. And they're so good, you know,
• 58:13
  they'll do something subtle or obvious to let me know.
• 58:15
  Hey, you've drifted away. Where are you?
• 58:17
  I'll come back to the moment. Yep.
• 58:19
  I'm here so they're like little guides to help us Orient
• 58:23
  ourselves to become better. That's it.
• 58:26
  Life enrichment for both horse and human.
• 58:28
  As long as we follow the rules, follow the philosophies, follow
• 58:33
  an interactive system to get predictable results, you know
• 58:38
  you'll you'll meet or exceed every goal that you have for
• 58:41
  yourself if you just follow a interactive system for
• 58:45
  predictable results. I've never not accomplished a
• 58:48
  goal. Yes, I can train a horse in 30
• 58:50
  days to to appease a client the right way, but it's because I
• 58:54
  made all these necessary changes to get the desirable results to
• 58:59
  where it made me efficient and effective and still kept the
• 59:02
  horse. Number one, you know I'll
• 59:06
  attract those clients that want that because that comes at a
• 59:08
  premium and I'm I'm very thankful for that.
• 59:12
  So get paid very well to do that.
• 59:15
  But it's it's years and years of practice and experience and then
• 59:18
  people don't care what or how or anything like they care about
• 59:22
  the results. So when they get when they see
• 59:26
  the final result you know say it's a 30 day mule or a horse
• 59:29
  that I train they they go oh wow this this is not the same animal
• 59:35
  that I dropped off to you. Of course I don't let them just
• 59:38
  drop them off to me these days. They've got to be involved,
• 59:40
  otherwise what's the point? But yeah.
• 59:43
  You know, it's it's it's there's so much to these advanced
• 59:47
  intricacies of horsemanship. If you want to get a copy of
• 59:50
  Justin's award-winning book, hop on over to Amazon and search a
• 59:54
  Horse to Guide Me by Justin Dunn.
• 59:57
  You know the biggest thing that could help Mustangs is, you know
• 1:00:01
  if, and this is my opinion, if there was a safety net put in
• 1:00:07
  place to where potential adopter.
• 1:00:11
  Had education before, during and after adoption.
• 1:00:15
  You know, Mustang horses, they're such a beautiful
• 1:00:19
  creature that they deserve a safety net because people,
• 1:00:24
  there's people that struggle, they're struggling.
• 1:00:27
  They need resource for information to help them.
• 1:00:31
  And you know as far as retention of a horse.
• 1:00:34
  You know if a person's just like I don't know where to turn, I
• 1:00:37
  don't know what to do. That's a scary feeling for them.
• 1:00:42
  And and there are a lot of decent people out there like,
• 1:00:45
  look I love this horse, but I know I'm not capable of doing
• 1:00:48
  this. I I need to I need a resource to
• 1:00:51
  help me or I've got to get someone else that can handle
• 1:00:53
  this horse. So American Mustang School
• 1:00:57
  provides that. It's a single resource before,
• 1:01:01
  during and after adoption to where you can utilize an
• 1:01:05
  interactive system to get predictable results and meet
• 1:01:08
  your realistic expectations, your goals.
• 1:01:11
  And then you know some people will say what is a realistic
• 1:01:13
  expectation and I help them through that.
• 1:01:16
  You know it. It's generally clarity through
• 1:01:19
  engagement and finding that awareness of what their
• 1:01:23
  expectations are and then implementing practices to
• 1:01:28
  achieve them. And it's it's it's one of the
• 1:01:32
  biggest things I think that could help Mustangs and people
• 1:01:34
  today not get into trouble. And I've I've designed a
• 1:01:40
  beautiful program and I've just tested it over the last three
• 1:01:43
  years on on some very high minded individuals, elite
• 1:01:49
  special operation forces of our military.
• 1:01:51
  They they only pick the best of the best of those people guys
• 1:01:55
  and girls and they've come out to my school and we've
• 1:01:58
  implemented horsemanship research and development.
• 1:02:02
  We've monitored body systems and the and the people, you know,
• 1:02:07
  the horses are stable. They're they're good.
• 1:02:11
  Our program never stresses a horse because again, horse comes
• 1:02:14
  first. So you know you might hear some
• 1:02:17
  organizations are like, oh, we had to take the horse out of the
• 1:02:20
  therapy program because he's getting too stressed out.
• 1:02:22
  My horses embrace it and love it.
• 1:02:25
  It's therapy for them. So therapy for the therapy
• 1:02:28
  horse, if we want to call it therapy.
• 1:02:31
  Well, that seems like it should be that way.
• 1:02:34
  It should be something that you talk a lot about mutual benefit
• 1:02:37
  between meaning that both the horse gets benefit from it and
• 1:02:41
  the human gets benefit from it. And so it seems like certainly
• 1:02:45
  when therapy is taking place, it should be something that both
• 1:02:49
  parties benefit from, not that one is being just strained and
• 1:02:53
  pulled on. To the other. 1.
• 1:02:56
  Whenever we practice correctly, it's life enrichment for both.
• 1:03:00
  See, the horses just find out they're eating grass and you
• 1:03:03
  know, doing what he's supposed to do.
• 1:03:04
  When we invite him into the human element correctly, he gets
• 1:03:07
  to take part in something much bigger than himself.
• 1:03:11
  He gets to make discoveries and the human element otherwise
• 1:03:14
  wouldn't have made. So it's it's interesting to the
• 1:03:16
  horse, it it creates A curiosity and whenever a horse has
• 1:03:21
  experiences that I'll say challenge them.
• 1:03:25
  But but intrigue them more than anything to to discover more.
• 1:03:29
  Just as me, I want to discover more with this horse.
• 1:03:32
  Like, what's next? What's the unknown?
• 1:03:33
  Where are we going with this? What, what energies are we
• 1:03:37
  tapping into when the horse is doing that same thing?
• 1:03:40
  There's a motivation. You know, they'll have a thought
• 1:03:43
  and then they'll have an emotion.
• 1:03:45
  And maybe that emotion is enthusiasm.
• 1:03:48
  Not to be confused with, you know, excitement or or spooky or
• 1:03:52
  scared, but and enthusiasm to be involved, to step up and and do
• 1:03:57
  something I can't train them to do, especially for another
• 1:04:00
  person that that is huge, that is like wow, this horse is
• 1:04:06
  actually stepping up, doing things I can't train them to do
• 1:04:10
  because it's a reward to the horse.
• 1:04:12
  The horse feels rewarded, benefited.
• 1:04:17
  Life is better than just standing out there swatting
• 1:04:19
  flies, eating grass on the on the plains of of freedom.
• 1:04:23
  Like, like we we like to call it.
• 1:04:26
  But when we asked them to come into the human element
• 1:04:28
  correctly, they're still free. I mean, I ground time, my
• 1:04:31
  horses, they're free to go. And sometimes they do, You know,
• 1:04:34
  it's kind of embarrassing, but it's like a 10 more minutes.
• 1:04:39
  You know how he feels, yeah. All it is, it's just, it's just
• 1:04:42
  a outward gesture of what the horses think and they might be
• 1:04:45
  bored. They walk off.
• 1:04:46
  It's like, well, I've got to engage this horse to create
• 1:04:48
  curiosity. I mean, they're just talking to
• 1:04:50
  me. They're telling me what they
• 1:04:51
  need or maybe they're done. They're like, no, I'm done.
• 1:04:53
  I'm bored with this. So we've got to do something
• 1:04:56
  different, become more important to what they think is important.
• 1:04:58
  So they get a voice. It's not force compliance, you
• 1:05:01
  know, We don't pull them around with a lead rope and make them
• 1:05:06
  do anything. It's, you know, invite them.
• 1:05:09
  It's ask them and they'll tell you.
• 1:05:11
  They'll tell you if yes or no. And then you got to make changes
• 1:05:14
  and present again to get desirable results.
• 1:05:17
  And then once you get into that feedback loop where it's
• 1:05:20
  circular, not intermittent, not interrupted, it flows.
• 1:05:24
  What we're doing is an attraction and it flows
• 1:05:27
  willingly. So if I have a place for that
• 1:05:31
  information or energy to flow to, they willingly flow there.
• 1:05:36
  So, so it may not even be me. It may be the participant that I
• 1:05:39
  have. And see, I've learned my horses.
• 1:05:42
  They love that when I get out of the picture, start fading away
• 1:05:46
  and allow them to step up and and do what they know they need
• 1:05:50
  to do, Oh, I get to witness something so beautiful.
• 1:05:55
  And then the person gets to experience it.
• 1:05:57
  The horses experience it. It's just three lives getting
• 1:06:00
  enriched in nature. But we're at a school.
• 1:06:03
  We're at my horsemanship school. It's it's it's just beautiful.
• 1:06:07
  That's probably the best word right there to describe it.
• 1:06:10
  Yeah. What I think is interesting
• 1:06:12
  about that is it seems like there's so there's traditional
• 1:06:15
  horsemanship and it seems like there's new thoughts and ideas
• 1:06:19
  coming out. And I wouldn't say that people
• 1:06:23
  are almost too soft, but maybe underestimate the capabilities
• 1:06:26
  of horses, where maybe they're like, I don't even want to ride
• 1:06:30
  them, Or maybe letting the horse direct everything.
• 1:06:37
  Interactive system to get predictable results.
• 1:06:39
  You'll have one extreme answer, yeah, I'm going to keep that one
• 1:06:43
  extreme to the other. You know, coddle them, get it?
• 1:06:47
  You know, Yeah. Exactly.
• 1:06:49
  I'm not saying horses don't even do that to themselves in their
• 1:06:53
  own herd. I mean, we as human, if we
• 1:06:55
  follow and I'll say my rules, I'm never going to do anything
• 1:06:59
  to that horse that another horse wouldn't do 10 times worse.
• 1:07:03
  So, you know, I had a lady call in one time.
• 1:07:06
  She's like, you know, he wouldn't cross this Creek.
• 1:07:08
  I knew he wasn't scared and and I know he can do it.
• 1:07:11
  And I know you don't whip your horses, Justin, but what do I
• 1:07:14
  do? And I was like, oh, OK.
• 1:07:16
  So if all those variables are lined up, I have split reins on
• 1:07:20
  my bitless bridle. Split reins, they're, they're 8
• 1:07:23
  foot long. I will take that tail and I will
• 1:07:26
  slap my chaps is pretty hard. And pop that attention.
• 1:07:30
  Like, hey, pay attention, you can go across this Creek.
• 1:07:33
  I know you're not scared. You're just, you know, being
• 1:07:36
  silly essentially or just testing the waters.
• 1:07:38
  They're like, they're like us. They're like, I don't really
• 1:07:41
  want to. What are you going to do about
• 1:07:42
  it? Going back to your interaction,
• 1:07:43
  they're presenting something and kind of seeing how you react.
• 1:07:47
  Yes, absolutely. So I'll, I'll slap my chaps.
• 1:07:51
  If that doesn't work, I'll squeeze, I'll bump, I'll kiss,
• 1:07:55
  pop them in the butt. With the end of that rain, it's
• 1:07:58
  like, hey, this is serious. I really am increasing the
• 1:08:01
  intensity of this question because I know you're not going
• 1:08:04
  to get hurt. I know you know how to do this.
• 1:08:06
  And generally, my horses, I don't even have to do that.
• 1:08:08
  But at some point I may have had to in the early days because
• 1:08:12
  they will test you like they're like kids and you're like, hey,
• 1:08:15
  I wonder if I just say no. Well, it's like, I'm going to
• 1:08:20
  ask you this question, but I may ask in a different way.
• 1:08:25
  And then it's just going to be, I'm going to show you the easy
• 1:08:28
  way out. It's just going to be a matter
• 1:08:29
  of cause and effect at that point.
• 1:08:31
  It's like, well, if you don't want to go forward, I'll just
• 1:08:34
  ask you to do 6 circles and then I'll leave you alone when you go
• 1:08:37
  forward. And then if you stop, I'll ask
• 1:08:39
  you to do 6 circles. And when you go forward, I'll
• 1:08:41
  leave you alone about the third time.
• 1:08:42
  They're like, I don't want to do any more circles.
• 1:08:44
  I'm just going to walk. It's like, great, We both get
• 1:08:46
  what we want. So there's psychology to it.
• 1:08:49
  As far as reverse psychology, maybe.
• 1:08:51
  But there's a psychology to it and it's based on the individual
• 1:08:54
  horse. And you're going to ask them
• 1:08:56
  questions you know, they know the answers to and then you
• 1:08:59
  build upon that. So they get to something they're
• 1:09:01
  confused on. Of course, I'm not going to
• 1:09:04
  increase the intensity of question to to to create more
• 1:09:07
  confusion. I'll take them back and ask them
• 1:09:10
  a question on know they know the answer to, and then you know,
• 1:09:14
  show them what they are confused about in the time it takes to
• 1:09:18
  get them to understand and not be confused.
• 1:09:20
  So getting into the mechanics of training, you know that we could
• 1:09:24
  do a whole another hour on that, but based on the individual's
• 1:09:27
  needs, I'll tailor that interactive system to get
• 1:09:31
  predictable results based on that individual.
• 1:09:33
  Has there ever been a time where maybe a horse told you now and
• 1:09:38
  you adjusted what your expectations were, what your
• 1:09:43
  plans were? All the time.
• 1:09:46
  Meaning like say the horse didn't want to go across the
• 1:09:49
  Creek, Would you ever just not go across the Creek type thing
• 1:09:53
  or where's where's that balance that like this is OK to say no,
• 1:09:57
  this one we're going to work through though.
• 1:09:59
  Boy, I got about 10 answers for this one, but I'm going to give
• 1:10:01
  you a cool analogy. We could go for this, but I'll
• 1:10:04
  go with people. Height of COVID wearing masks.
• 1:10:08
  Wanted to go into Walmart. I wasn't wearing a mask.
• 1:10:11
  They wouldn't let me in. Rather than getting to any kind
• 1:10:14
  of argument or confrontation, you know, I simply asked some
• 1:10:17
  questions. And then I basically was like,
• 1:10:20
  so you're not going to let me in?
• 1:10:20
  She's like, no, it's like, OK, so I left and I just walked to a
• 1:10:24
  different door and went in and that Lady didn't care.
• 1:10:27
  So it's kind of like this. If a horse doesn't want to cross
• 1:10:30
  a Creek, I might not get in an argument.
• 1:10:32
  I might say, OK, don't cross here, Let's let's go do some
• 1:10:36
  figure eights parallel up the Creek.
• 1:10:39
  And I'm just going to get you close to the Creek and we do
• 1:10:42
  Figure 8. So you get to right eye look at
• 1:10:44
  the Creek, left eye look at the Creek.
• 1:10:45
  And we're doing figure eights and we're not where you said no
• 1:10:48
  because I get it, you don't want to do that.
• 1:10:50
  Let's go move up the Creek. I'm going to ask him some
• 1:10:53
  questions that I know you know the answers to and then I'm
• 1:10:55
  going to leave you alone. When you're heading for the
• 1:10:57
  Creek and you step in it, good job.
• 1:11:00
  And then we come out of it and then we step in it and then we
• 1:11:02
  come out of it. Figure 8.
• 1:11:03
  So we're going left eye to the Creek, We step in it parallel.
• 1:11:07
  We go right eye to the Creek. We step in it parallel to the
• 1:11:10
  Creek. I'll never ask a horse go
• 1:11:12
  perpendicular. If they've already told me no,
• 1:11:14
  we're going to parallel it. So I may walk with the Creek.
• 1:11:17
  They look at it their left eye or do figure eights, whatever
• 1:11:20
  the scenario allows and whatever the individual needs.
• 1:11:24
  And then I'll ask them to go parallel to the Creek.
• 1:11:26
  And before you know it, they're stepping in the Creek, coming
• 1:11:28
  right back out, stepping in the Creek in a different direction,
• 1:11:31
  coming right back out. And then they cross the Creek.
• 1:11:34
  And then I asked them to cross back over and then we've crossed
• 1:11:37
  it a couple of times in Figure 8.
• 1:11:38
  So we did Figure 8 over the Creek and then I stop on the
• 1:11:42
  other side of the Creek and like and I ask them, you know, by
• 1:11:45
  pausing, are you scared now was did that do it?
• 1:11:50
  And essentially just by asking questions that they knew the
• 1:11:55
  answers to and not focusing on the goal of crossing the Creek,
• 1:12:01
  I did a more interactive system to get predictable results.
• 1:12:05
  They already crossed the Creek without blowing their mind,
• 1:12:09
  creating too much tension in their body.
• 1:12:11
  Because I'm allowing them to move, I'm not restraining them,
• 1:12:15
  not forcing them to do anything with spurs or whips.
• 1:12:17
  It's asking them to walk in the direction they want to.
• 1:12:20
  However, I'm asking specific questions.
• 1:12:22
  I know they know in the figure eights we've crossed into the
• 1:12:25
  Creek, but I don't care. I'm asking them to come back out
• 1:12:28
  before we knew it. We're on the other side of the
• 1:12:30
  Creek, so just in a summary, I paid attention to the horses
• 1:12:37
  needs. I didn't get them too restricted
• 1:12:39
  in the mind, too much fear, too much doubt, too much confusion.
• 1:12:44
  I freed up that restriction in the mind to where they could
• 1:12:47
  learn something. I created a learning environment
• 1:12:51
  by not forcing compliance, asking questions, reduce or
• 1:12:56
  eliminate all tension in the body.
• 1:12:58
  So by the time we crossed over the Creek, we probably did 15 to
• 1:13:01
  20 Figure 8 beside it, five more figure eights into it, five more
• 1:13:07
  figure eights to crossover it, and then a couple of figure
• 1:13:09
  eights on the other side of it and then do a trigger body
• 1:13:12
  responsive relaxation. I'll take a deep breath, relax
• 1:13:16
  my shoulders, hips, legs that transmits to the horse to where
• 1:13:20
  we can synchronize thoughts, heart rate, muscles, breathing
• 1:13:26
  and then we accomplished an event.
• 1:13:28
  So on the next event, it's going to be less because they know
• 1:13:32
  I've got them number one, I'm going to keep them centered and
• 1:13:34
  balanced in this training and they're going to respond
• 1:13:39
  quietly, not react chaotically. So they're thinking and they're
• 1:13:44
  responding. They're not thinking and
• 1:13:47
  reacting. So there's a balance and any I
• 1:13:53
  don't focus on any outside influence.
• 1:13:56
  I maintain a feedback loop of presenting, observing, making
• 1:14:00
  changes, present again, observing, feedback, make
• 1:14:03
  changes present again. And that's that interactive
• 1:14:06
  system. I will get the goal of crossing
• 1:14:08
  the Creek in very short time and not have blown my horse's mind
• 1:14:14
  or sweated his body to the point exhaustion.
• 1:14:17
  None of that. He can actually think and move
• 1:14:21
  and feel and and and then each event like that gets less and
• 1:14:25
  less to where they may just look up at me and question like do I
• 1:14:29
  have to cross the Creek and then I'll just subtle little leg
• 1:14:32
  cube, yeah. And then we cross the Creek.
• 1:14:34
  It's not even an issue because they want the easy way out of
• 1:14:39
  everything and we just got to show it to them.
• 1:14:41
  So that's everything in US is in that horse everything.
• 1:14:45
  Bones, muscle, blood, heart, guts.
• 1:14:48
  We eat food. Everything's the same except one
• 1:14:51
  thing. We have a divine mind.
• 1:14:55
  We have the ability to create and imagine.
• 1:14:58
  So that's when horses help us become better at doing that.
• 1:15:02
  We've got to get creative. We've got to imagine a way to
• 1:15:06
  become so much better than what we are presenting.
• 1:15:09
  That's not working. We present what does work,
• 1:15:14
  desirable results. Horses will see that, draw to
• 1:15:19
  that and become something they're not, and then you both
• 1:15:22
  lives just got enriched. Yeah, when you talk about that,
• 1:15:27
  there's two things that I know for sure have either impacted me
• 1:15:31
  or stuff that I still maybe have a hard time knowing for myself.
• 1:15:38
  The first one, I guess is how do you get to the point where you
• 1:15:42
  ignore all the outside influences?
• 1:15:44
  Because I can see not now. I think this is something that
• 1:15:47
  would have affected me more before.
• 1:15:49
  But say you're on a trail ride with a bunch of other people and
• 1:15:52
  not start stressing like I'm holding these people up, they're
• 1:15:55
  going to think my horse is I'll behaved, You know, letting those
• 1:15:59
  thoughts I guess get into your head.
• 1:16:01
  How do you, how do you keep those outside influences outside
• 1:16:06
  and I guess not internalize? Them.
• 1:16:08
  Well, the short answer is develop an awareness.
• 1:16:11
  It's the skill that everybody needs to navigate this life
• 1:16:14
  healthy, wealthy and wise. Accomplish and fulfill purposes
• 1:16:18
  won't get there very efficiently or effectively without an
• 1:16:22
  awareness, so I choose my enemies wisely.
• 1:16:26
  If I'm around other like minded people and we've already had a
• 1:16:30
  conversation about what's important, IE the horses, then
• 1:16:35
  it really doesn't have an effect on what people think or what
• 1:16:39
  they care about what they think. I've already surrounded myself
• 1:16:42
  with this, but to answer your question, how do I navigate not
• 1:16:48
  allowing outside influences to affect my inner control of four
• 1:16:52
  things. Thoughts, emotions, attitude,
• 1:16:54
  action. The The short answer is practice
• 1:16:58
  and developing 5 part series of communication with horses on the
• 1:17:01
  ground before I'm ever around their back.
• 1:17:04
  I've I've pretty much discovered every little detail about that
• 1:17:07
  individual in depth and also have revealed some things about
• 1:17:11
  myself in that establishment of feedback loop.
• 1:17:15
  You know, I I present something as a guide and then I observe
• 1:17:20
  and feedback from the horse, and then I make necessary changes
• 1:17:24
  and then I present again, which becomes a corrective feedback
• 1:17:27
  loop on the ground with the horse as I transfer up to their
• 1:17:30
  back and still continue to do those same things.
• 1:17:33
  So I've already prepared the horse myself to communicate, to
• 1:17:39
  have a circular feedback loop before we ever get into any
• 1:17:44
  situation outside of the arena we'll we'll say, or outside of
• 1:17:50
  our comfort zone, so to say. So I don't focus on objects like
• 1:17:56
  a deer or a a bear or a mailbox or a trash truck or other people
• 1:18:00
  or other horses. I focus on me presenting,
• 1:18:04
  presenting to my horse, observing, feedback, making
• 1:18:06
  changes. Do it again.
• 1:18:08
  So in any situation that arises, I'm aware if I'm 90% engaged
• 1:18:13
  with this horse and 10% engaged with what's going on around me
• 1:18:17
  or if you'll flip it, I'm 90% engaged with that and 10% of the
• 1:18:22
  horse, I can actually. Most of the time I think we're
• 1:18:26
  much more focused on the car going by the next obstacle
• 1:18:30
  coming up, what's going to scare them?
• 1:18:33
  Yeah, and see, that's that's playing into the future that'll
• 1:18:37
  never, you know, that's that's anxiety that'll never fall, that
• 1:18:41
  that'll they'll pick up on that energy quick because our body
• 1:18:44
  will do something unconsciously, which generally is tense and
• 1:18:49
  robotic and gripping with your your body.
• 1:18:52
  And the horse feels that energy and and then they come up to it
• 1:18:56
  naturally. So if we can control our
• 1:18:59
  thoughts, emotions, attitude, action, and present to the horse
• 1:19:02
  a well balanced, stable individual, any situation that
• 1:19:07
  arises, they'll actually help us do it.
• 1:19:10
  You know, they're like, hey Justin, you're getting a little
• 1:19:12
  nervous here. What's going on?
• 1:19:13
  And then it'll call my attention to it and be like, oh, you're
• 1:19:16
  right, let me do, let me do something to trigger a body
• 1:19:19
  response of relaxation in myself.
• 1:19:21
  And maybe I ask the horse to do it, which triggers it in myself.
• 1:19:25
  And then we get back balanced in agreement, harmonizing and then
• 1:19:30
  we can go do whatever it is we want to do.
• 1:19:33
  But see, as you do this, the horse follows you for who you're
• 1:19:36
  becoming. They they're observing they're
• 1:19:38
  taking notes and they they're conscious you know they're
• 1:19:41
  aware. So as we interact they'll know
• 1:19:45
  when we're center and they know when we're not and they'll help
• 1:19:48
  us come center because it's it's that fluid feedback loop that's
• 1:19:52
  circular. They like that they they don't
• 1:19:55
  want to intermittent and distorted and confusing that
• 1:19:59
  gets restrictive in their thoughts and tense in their
• 1:20:01
  bodies. So you know escalating all the
• 1:20:04
  way out to to violent. Behavior of bucking, biting,
• 1:20:08
  bolting, kicking, rearing, flipping over backwards, all
• 1:20:10
  that. That's because too fast, too
• 1:20:13
  soon, way out of alignment, not abiding in laws of nature, no
• 1:20:17
  philosophies, no rules, chaos. You know, I'll train a horse for
• 1:20:22
  video. It's like watching paint dry.
• 1:20:24
  It's so boring. I can videos, it's boring.
• 1:20:27
  And I ask people, what do you all want to see?
• 1:20:29
  We want to see you tame down a bucking horse.
• 1:20:31
  And it's like, well, I'd have to create a bucking horse for you
• 1:20:34
  to see that. I don't even want my horses to
• 1:20:36
  know how to buck, so why would I ever get one to do it?
• 1:20:41
  So it's kind of like we when we can maintain a feedback loop
• 1:20:46
  that's so circular, it's so strong.
• 1:20:49
  It's so between me and the horse.
• 1:20:51
  Outside influences have little to no effect on it unless we
• 1:20:55
  allow it to. My horses today, I can ride them
• 1:20:58
  anywhere I want, Any of them. Go pick and we'll go to the town
• 1:21:01
  and there's 50,000 outside influences.
• 1:21:04
  Sometimes my horses will look up to me for guidance, like, hey,
• 1:21:07
  should I be scared of that? Should I?
• 1:21:09
  Should I? Should, what do we do here?
• 1:21:12
  Well, if I'm not paying attention and I don't give them,
• 1:21:15
  you know, the feedback from me they're looking for, they're
• 1:21:17
  going to go into survival mode and do something obvious, like
• 1:21:21
  maybe turn a 180 and go the other way.
• 1:21:24
  And then I'm like, oh, yeah, you were asking.
• 1:21:26
  I I was paying attention and I was thinking something else.
• 1:21:29
  And I'll just ask them to go back in the direction they were
• 1:21:31
  going. And then they're cool.
• 1:21:32
  They're like, OK, good. You're not cargo.
• 1:21:34
  You're actually a live living being, communicating with me.
• 1:21:37
  You know, I watched 5000 different people ride my horses
• 1:21:41
  over the course of a decade, and they were pretty much cargo.
• 1:21:46
  And the horses knew the difference.
• 1:21:48
  They know the difference. So if I ride one of my horses
• 1:21:51
  that's taken 200 different people riding in in the
• 1:21:54
  mountains of Colorado, they're going to know if I'm paying
• 1:21:57
  attention or not. They're going to know if I'm in
• 1:21:59
  alignment with my four things and I'm consciously aware in the
• 1:22:02
  moment presenting to them what I expect from them.
• 1:22:06
  And they like that because they never drift out of that.
• 1:22:08
  They're paying attention right now, all the time in the moment.
• 1:22:12
  So that's why they're so beautiful.
• 1:22:14
  That's why they're so therapeutic.
• 1:22:16
  That's why they're they're a gift to heal humanity.
• 1:22:20
  So OK, this is the other thing I would struggle with and I feel
• 1:22:23
  like I might know the answer that you're going to give to
• 1:22:25
  this. But when I come up against
• 1:22:28
  something so I have this new Mustang, she is, she doesn't
• 1:22:33
  love people you know, she's very she's from the antelope pills
• 1:22:36
  HMA, which I think is in the middle of nowhere.
• 1:22:39
  Wyoming, you know, And so you know, we can do good and I can
• 1:22:43
  rub all over. Next time.
• 1:22:45
  She's like, I don't want you to touch me or whatever.
• 1:22:48
  So one thing I struggle with with her is maybe, you know,
• 1:22:52
  I'll try something. It doesn't seem like it's
• 1:22:54
  working. So then I'm like, maybe what I'm
• 1:22:55
  doing is wrong and I need to try something else.
• 1:22:57
  How do you know that what you're doing, if you keep doing it long
• 1:23:02
  enough, is going to lead to the result that you want?
• 1:23:05
  Like what advice would you, you know, give me and everybody else
• 1:23:09
  that might be facing something like that?
• 1:23:13
  Well, again it's tailored to the horses specific needs.
• 1:23:17
  I'm going to learn that horse nose to tail, hoof to ear in
• 1:23:22
  five part series. I'm going to know what works,
• 1:23:26
  what's most efficient and effective to create the desired
• 1:23:31
  responses from the horse with the horse.
• 1:23:35
  So to answer that, you know specifically, you know in a
• 1:23:39
  scenario if I'm trying something that's not working, I've
• 1:23:45
  generally you know you've got to look at perception and like
• 1:23:48
  whose eyes are we right in, You know what am I labeling right
• 1:23:51
  and wrong is it, is it weak and strong?
• 1:23:54
  It's like well they're doing it, it's just weak.
• 1:23:56
  Well we follow the philosophy of three days.
• 1:24:00
  You know the the concept is the first day they what's what what
• 1:24:03
  did they retain what do I get to get better at presenting And
• 1:24:07
  then the third day Polish it. 4th day might be a rest day.
• 1:24:11
  Fifth day, come back start again on the exact same thing we were
• 1:24:15
  doing and and nine times out of 10 if you allow a little time to
• 1:24:20
  to to solidify the processes you were trying to achieve they get
• 1:24:28
  it. So I've never really come into
• 1:24:31
  man I'm doing this wrong. I wonder if I should keep going
• 1:24:35
  or I'm doing this right and then I'm then something happens where
• 1:24:40
  it's wrong. It's it's so different in my
• 1:24:44
  horsemanship as far as what people try to do and try to
• 1:24:50
  force. And you know, I mean, I I can
• 1:24:52
  watch a video or watch a person in action and I can just pick
• 1:24:55
  it, right. Then it's like, oh, well, you're
• 1:24:57
  trying to go too fast, too soon or you you had it at 15 minutes.
• 1:25:02
  Why did you drill it to an hour? I mean, that's why you got the
• 1:25:05
  undesirable results. So some of that comes with
• 1:25:08
  experience, but it's it's really discovering that individual,
• 1:25:13
  that individual horse, because some horses you can play with
• 1:25:16
  for 45 minutes, they're fine. Some 25 minutes, some an hour
• 1:25:20
  and a half, there's you know what?
• 1:25:23
  What can we keep this horse engaged on and for how long?
• 1:25:28
  So it's a formula, and to give you one quick short answer, it's
• 1:25:33
  an interactive system to get. Yeah, that's what that was going
• 1:25:37
  to be included in. The answer I have that I I've
• 1:25:42
  mastered that And that's that's one of the things that American
• 1:25:46
  Mustang School is excelling at in our area and people are
• 1:25:51
  trailering in from, you know, close states, Kentucky,
• 1:25:55
  Tennessee, Virginia, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida,
• 1:26:00
  Florida coming in. But it's it's one of those
• 1:26:02
  things that it works, it's not a question it works and it's
• 1:26:11
  tailorable to people. It's tailorable to horses, all
• 1:26:15
  breeds. Mustangs are my favorite and
• 1:26:19
  that's what I focus on the most. But around here, where I live,
• 1:26:24
  there's all kinds of, you know, breeds.
• 1:26:26
  And I guess to put a plug in, which we'll also do it at the
• 1:26:29
  end, but you talk a lot about the five part series.
• 1:26:31
  I know that's something that's like a place where I started
• 1:26:35
  with my Mustang, was learning that, and you do talk about it
• 1:26:38
  in the book, so that's definitely a source.
• 1:26:41
  But where else can people kind of see this, learn from you
• 1:26:44
  about this now? I know I learned in a group that
• 1:26:48
  I joined with you. What's the best way to do it
• 1:26:50
  now? I'm so glad you asked.
• 1:26:55
  Well, new for 2024, I've started a weekly zoom session that's
• 1:27:00
  very private. It's I'm not sure how large it's
• 1:27:05
  going to be. You know, this week, February
• 1:27:08
  6th is our first one and I've already got a four people signed
• 1:27:14
  up for that and it probably will remain small because I like, I
• 1:27:19
  like to keep things like that small.
• 1:27:22
  And then, you know, maybe it'll grow a little bit, but that's
• 1:27:25
  the best place because that's exactly what we're talking
• 1:27:27
  about. And I am going to store these
• 1:27:30
  for about a year so people can still have access to them.
• 1:27:33
  And I'd go to my website to join that Zoom session, but that's
• 1:27:40
  exactly what we're talking about.
• 1:27:41
  Five part series. I'll give you a little overview.
• 1:27:43
  You know, it's a series of five questions you can ask any horse
• 1:27:47
  to get a deeper understanding of that horse.
• 1:27:50
  The beautiful thing about it is you get a deeper understanding
• 1:27:54
  of yourself. The horse will get a deeper
• 1:27:56
  understanding of themselves. The horse gets a deeper
• 1:27:59
  understanding of us. So it's a feedback loop that's
• 1:28:03
  getting established to not only discover but enhance each
• 1:28:10
  individual, the person and the horse.
• 1:28:11
  It's a mantra, It's something we can always go to.
• 1:28:15
  When there's any doubt arising, any confusion, any anything you
• 1:28:20
  don't want, you go and engage in the five part series which is
• 1:28:24
  establishing communication. We call it Level 2.
• 1:28:29
  And that's the the key ingredient to establishing that
• 1:28:35
  interactive system for predictable results, because
• 1:28:38
  we're learning about the individual.
• 1:28:39
  It's like picking up your cell phone and calling your horse
• 1:28:42
  and, like, ask him questions. How do you feel 5 feet from me?
• 1:28:46
  Wild Mustang? Oh, you're a lot more relaxed
• 1:28:49
  there. You don't.
• 1:28:50
  Not so much at 3 feet. OK, great.
• 1:28:53
  How do you discover that? Well, I designed a series of
• 1:28:57
  five questions to ask the horse. Where are you most comfortable
• 1:29:00
  at distance from me on question number one.
• 1:29:04
  Question #2 are, where are you most comfortable with me?
• 1:29:08
  On your left side or your right side?
• 1:29:11
  That's two and three. Question, Question four, are you
• 1:29:14
  willing to come back to me? Question #5, will you stand
• 1:29:19
  ground, tied and relaxed? I'm going to trigger a body
• 1:29:22
  response of relaxation in you when I drop this rope.
• 1:29:25
  It's your benefit to your benefit.
• 1:29:28
  It's also to my benefit because it's so cool to have a horse
• 1:29:31
  that'll ground tie. But it's it's that five
• 1:29:34
  questions. And then we pause, breathe
• 1:29:38
  together, observe each other for who we are, and then we'll ask
• 1:29:42
  those questions again. The horse gets a voice and then
• 1:29:47
  the horse starts thinking and the horse starts behaving and
• 1:29:50
  the horse starts becoming. And it's a direct reflection of
• 1:29:54
  what we're thinking and doing through action and presenting to
• 1:29:58
  the horse. In turn we're becoming.
• 1:30:01
  So whatever you think and do you become, that's just, that's it.
• 1:30:05
  If you're consciously thinking and doing, you have a little
• 1:30:08
  more control of what you become. If you're not, you pretty much
• 1:30:12
  fall victim to whatever you think and do.
• 1:30:15
  And that's the majority of the United States.
• 1:30:18
  A lot of people are. They're just, they're thinking
• 1:30:22
  and they're doing. They're not consciously aware of
• 1:30:24
  what it is. They have no interactive system.
• 1:30:27
  They don't know how to get predictable results.
• 1:30:30
  They don't know why they fail, which no one ever fails.
• 1:30:33
  It's temporary defeat. If you quit, you fail.
• 1:30:38
  But it's just not being, not having a system that that's
• 1:30:43
  just, that's it. And I've designed it and I've
• 1:30:46
  implemented it in, in the past three years, really implemented
• 1:30:50
  it and to the highest levels of our military and government.
• 1:30:55
  And it's tried, true, proven to work 100% on any horse, on any
• 1:31:00
  person. Yeah.
• 1:31:02
  And I really feel like that's something we can't emphasize
• 1:31:04
  enough because I think it's not an idea.
• 1:31:08
  It's maybe an idea that's out there, but I don't know that
• 1:31:10
  people really believe it for themselves that you have that
• 1:31:14
  control. I've mentioned to you before, I
• 1:31:17
  teach psychology and I have this assignment that students do
• 1:31:21
  where they kind of experiment with if they can control their
• 1:31:24
  emotions. And some students will be really
• 1:31:27
  open to it and they'll come away having gained a lot of skills
• 1:31:31
  from this assignment. And I'll have other students
• 1:31:33
  whose conclusion at the end is, no, you can't change it.
• 1:31:38
  And so I think it's really important to realize that you
• 1:31:43
  can change your emotions. It's hard when you're in the
• 1:31:45
  middle of like, a big strong emotion.
• 1:31:47
  But if you can go back to that initial thought, like where it
• 1:31:50
  started and kind of grab it there, you said that even you
• 1:31:53
  still have these negative thoughts that might pop up.
• 1:31:57
  But you're good enough now that you can, like, grab it right
• 1:32:00
  away, recognize for what it is, and then consciously bring in a
• 1:32:04
  different thought. Well, it's almost like I'll look
• 1:32:09
  at it as a trigger, so to speak. So, so a thought comes in.
• 1:32:14
  My motion changed. I'm going to where I'm I'm aware
• 1:32:17
  and then my attitude might have changed.
• 1:32:19
  But by then I've it's triggered different thoughts to replace
• 1:32:24
  the initial thought, to replace the initial emotion, to where
• 1:32:28
  the action is controlled. I'll give you an example.
• 1:32:31
  I used to get really upset when people cut me off in traffic.
• 1:32:35
  Nowadays it's like, Nah, maybe their house is on fire.
• 1:32:38
  I don't care. So it's just something that
• 1:32:41
  simple. And it's through practicing
• 1:32:43
  horsemanship that I developed the skill of awareness to
• 1:32:47
  control the four things I talk about.
• 1:32:49
  Thoughts, emotion, attitude, action.
• 1:32:52
  And then practicing horsemanship allowed me to identify.
• 1:32:54
  Wow, that's an internal thing. So I can have a thought and
• 1:32:58
  emotion no one's going to know. But reflection of what I do in
• 1:33:05
  my what I do in my action is a reflection of what I've been
• 1:33:08
  thinking or am thinking. So if my attitude and my action
• 1:33:12
  change, then people can know. So I'm pretty good about
• 1:33:17
  controlling myself in any situation.
• 1:33:20
  You know, in a in a big contract negotiation with the government,
• 1:33:25
  you know I'm sitting at a big executive table or whatever I
• 1:33:28
  can, I can do a push back so to speak and go, I don't like these
• 1:33:31
  thoughts, I don't like these emotions.
• 1:33:33
  I definitely don't like the attitude that I'm getting.
• 1:33:36
  So I'm not going to show this action.
• 1:33:39
  That's that trigger I'm talking about to where I'll go replace
• 1:33:42
  the thought, replace the emotion, attitude changes and
• 1:33:46
  then the action comes out and something I would desire rather
• 1:33:49
  than not desire and then boom, we land a big contract, you
• 1:33:53
  know. So it's it's like changing
• 1:33:55
  myself, presenting what I truly expect and then almost creating
• 1:34:01
  the circumstance I want in humans or horses.
• 1:34:05
  So it gives you this sixth sense that five senses are very
• 1:34:12
  limited and and gaining. Yeah, that I goes really well
• 1:34:19
  back with what you're saying with the five part series, which
• 1:34:21
  is where you've empty implemented these very basic
• 1:34:26
  small tasks that you've perfected.
• 1:34:29
  And it sounds like you do the same thing with your thoughts
• 1:34:32
  where you kind of practice when the stakes weren't high.
• 1:34:35
  You know, you practice those things with your horse when you
• 1:34:38
  weren't in traffic with five cars going by or whatnot.
• 1:34:42
  So that when you did get into that situation, because you had
• 1:34:45
  practiced and taken the time to make those small changes, that
• 1:34:51
  when it came to those big things, when you're in this big
• 1:34:53
  negotiation, you can fall back on those really simple practices
• 1:34:59
  of, you know, catching that thought, changing it, kind of
• 1:35:03
  looking at how you're feeling and what you need to do to alter
• 1:35:06
  that emotion. Well, horsemanship, Mustangs
• 1:35:10
  especially, taught me that I had that muscle and exercise that
• 1:35:13
  muscle. And you know, you your words
• 1:35:16
  were perfected. I'm still trying to perfect it,
• 1:35:20
  but it's it's so much easier today than five years ago, than
• 1:35:25
  10 years ago, than 20 years ago. It's when you consciously become
• 1:35:30
  aware that we have the ability to navigate this life and create
• 1:35:35
  circumstances we want. I owe that to the wild Mustang
• 1:35:39
  horse. Life is no struggle.
• 1:35:43
  We become enlightened. We really can look at life in a
• 1:35:48
  whole new perspective. And then other things that were
• 1:35:52
  important fall away and then things that weren't important
• 1:35:54
  become important. And then all aspects of our
• 1:35:58
  lives change. You know, financial, religion,
• 1:36:02
  politics, all of those things are just things and we can allow
• 1:36:08
  them to affect us negatively, positively.
• 1:36:12
  It can be a promotion to us or a degrading and we have that
• 1:36:18
  choice and how much time we want to invest in promoting ourselves
• 1:36:24
  to become better or how much time we want to spend and not
• 1:36:29
  you know it's it's just analyzing things for what they
• 1:36:33
  are and becoming aware and then defining it for ourselves
• 1:36:39
  according to how it's going to enhance or enrich our lives.
• 1:36:43
  You know just words alone just using different words can change
• 1:36:48
  so much. You know I play with horses I
• 1:36:51
  don't work them. You know I there's I've never
• 1:36:54
  met a bad horse bad behavior but they were just weakened
• 1:36:59
  something and I needed to strengthen it and then I found
• 1:37:02
  out their strengths and I utilize them to to our both of
• 1:37:05
  our advantage that's like that with people too we we do the
• 1:37:09
  same thing and and my life coaching part of horsemanship.
• 1:37:13
  You know people come in and they're in a dark place and it's
• 1:37:16
  it's just a weakness that they're they're getting
• 1:37:19
  attacked. You know one of their weaknesses
• 1:37:22
  is getting attacked and they're not sure how to overcome it.
• 1:37:25
  You know I used to have an anger issue that that was more defined
• 1:37:29
  in in doubt and fear. I would get angry about it when
• 1:37:32
  I when I doubted something and couldn't figure it out or I had
• 1:37:35
  a fear about something and didn't know how to manage it.
• 1:37:37
  I I would get angry and my anger would come out.
• 1:37:41
  So the most beneficial peripheral benefit of practicing
• 1:37:45
  Mustang horsemanship is being able to not be angry, not not
• 1:37:50
  have that loss of control through anger.
• 1:37:53
  I guess it's called anger management.
• 1:37:55
  But that awareness is something that through practicing, you
• 1:38:02
  don't fall victim to those things, you know?
• 1:38:04
  I don't. I don't get angry.
• 1:38:06
  And when I do, I know how to come out of it before action.
• 1:38:09
  Really, you know, it's something I don't want.
• 1:38:12
  And for me, when I start to go drifting into that anger
• 1:38:16
  gratitude. I'll override that thought of
• 1:38:19
  anger with gratitude. I'll be so thankful for that
• 1:38:21
  breath of air I can draw to wait 2 seconds and then recalibrate
• 1:38:25
  and and go do what it is I needed to do.
• 1:38:27
  But you know, my children, my horses, just being able to
• 1:38:32
  overcome what it is I'm in the moment trying to overcome.
• 1:38:35
  It's like this is a cool challenge.
• 1:38:37
  I I, I did start drift to anger, but wow, look at me.
• 1:38:41
  I'm not angry. I'm actually grateful for this
• 1:38:44
  actual thing happening in this moment where most people would
• 1:38:48
  be like, this sucks. I'd be like, no, this is not
• 1:38:51
  this does not suck. This is actually good.
• 1:38:54
  This is. I'm going to be getting to come
• 1:38:55
  stronger. I'm going to find new
• 1:38:57
  information. There's we're mining something
• 1:38:59
  here that I wouldn't have got to mine had I not.
• 1:39:03
  I love that. I think that's such a rare
• 1:39:05
  mindset, I would even say these days.
• 1:39:09
  And you said a lot of stuff there that would be so great to
• 1:39:12
  talk about, but one was not that it's not perfection, It's never
• 1:39:17
  perfect. And I think that's important to
• 1:39:20
  real to recognize that you may be working really hard to like
• 1:39:26
  change your horse, change your thoughts, change whatever.
• 1:39:29
  And it's not always going to go your way.
• 1:39:32
  And that's OK. If you fall, if you make a
• 1:39:35
  mistake, if you let your thoughts run away, if your horse
• 1:39:37
  Spooks in traffic, well maybe not traffic, but if your horse
• 1:39:41
  Spooks, if your horse Spooks at a rabbit, don't want it running
• 1:39:47
  into traffic. Just that we always have the
• 1:39:52
  chance to come back and change it.
• 1:39:54
  And for me, like I said that fixed mindset, like I would
• 1:39:57
  really run with that and be like, no, I just, you know,
• 1:40:00
  can't do it. I.
• 1:40:02
  I'm messed up. I don't know what I'm doing.
• 1:40:03
  Other people just have more talent at it or whatever it
• 1:40:07
  might be. But almost always it's practice.
• 1:40:11
  It's a it's keeping going, especially when it's hard.
• 1:40:17
  And I love the other thing you said about it makes a
• 1:40:20
  difference. Just our view of how we look at
• 1:40:22
  it. I think in the world today, we
• 1:40:24
  see a lot of, like I talked a little bit about before, a lot
• 1:40:28
  of blame conversations about how things are the fault of
• 1:40:32
  something outside of ourselves And whether that's true or not,
• 1:40:38
  which I think is a really hard principle, whether something
• 1:40:42
  outside of us did 'cause something bad to happen.
• 1:40:45
  Still, the answer is to look at what we have control over.
• 1:40:50
  And we don't have control other people over other people.
• 1:40:55
  And a lot of the things around us, we can't make someone
• 1:40:57
  apologize for something, you know, that we were hurt by or
• 1:41:01
  whatnot, but we can choose the way we look at that, you know,
• 1:41:04
  whether that's OK? Well, now I know I don't want to
• 1:41:07
  go out riding with these people because I felt really bad when,
• 1:41:11
  you know, I was criticized because I was having to learn
• 1:41:14
  and work through something. And so I think that's such an
• 1:41:18
  important message, just that we do have so much we can control,
• 1:41:25
  but it's almost all internal. Yep.
• 1:41:30
  Yeah, that You said it beautifully.
• 1:41:33
  Because that's exactly what what it is.
• 1:41:36
  Internal. You know, we're we're a living
• 1:41:38
  being and outside influences are going to come into our eyes, our
• 1:41:43
  ears. We're going to process that
• 1:41:45
  information and what how we process it is up to us.
• 1:41:49
  And if we're consciously aware of ourselves and we exercise our
• 1:41:54
  right to make choices, sometimes it's tough because you don't
• 1:41:58
  have information, so you there's always information available.
• 1:42:03
  We have to proactively go get it.
• 1:42:06
  We have to think and do to become, you know, the guys that
• 1:42:09
  built the airplane that flies through the air right now, that
• 1:42:12
  has the Internet and air conditioning, you know, that
• 1:42:15
  didn't just come about. You know these guys mind
• 1:42:19
  resources within themselves and compiled information made
• 1:42:23
  different choices to what we see now.
• 1:42:26
  The airplane. All the things are available.
• 1:42:28
  My point all the things are available that we need.
• 1:42:32
  We just have to proactively go think and do to become and get
• 1:42:36
  them. You know, it's it's a it's a
• 1:42:40
  lifelong journey, you know, to to discover.
• 1:42:44
  And in doing that, that's what the fun part of life is for me.
• 1:42:49
  It's like, what is? Stay curious.
• 1:42:51
  What's the unknown? What?
• 1:42:52
  What's what's out there? What's around the next corner
• 1:42:55
  that keeps me so curious in horsemanship, I think enhanced
• 1:43:00
  that or maybe sparked that in me speaking for me.
• 1:43:07
  Yeah, I mean, I relate to that also because I think one thing
• 1:43:10
  that Horsemanship does for me is it takes me away from the
• 1:43:14
  cultural part that for me always included a lot of shoulds.
• 1:43:20
  You should be this, you should act like this.
• 1:43:23
  You should get good grades, you should, you know, get the job,
• 1:43:26
  go to work, all those things that we should do.
• 1:43:28
  I feel like when I'm with horses, a lot of that falls
• 1:43:32
  away. And I think because you don't
• 1:43:35
  have all those external pressures, if it is just you and
• 1:43:37
  the horse and you can kind of either whether it's you're in a
• 1:43:42
  situation where there's not a lot of people and other things
• 1:43:44
  around or you can just do that mentally where you can tune out
• 1:43:48
  all those noises and stuff. But for me with the horse that
• 1:43:51
  happens really naturally that it's almost like I can, I know
• 1:43:57
  myself better. I can maybe you talk about like
• 1:44:01
  kind of coming to know the horse.
• 1:44:03
  I feel like we have to do that for ourselves as well because it
• 1:44:06
  gets so boggled down and like the culture and what we should
• 1:44:10
  be doing and the box that we should fit into with the horse.
• 1:44:14
  It seems like that can kind of fall away and it can be, you
• 1:44:18
  know, more authentic, more true to ourselves and how we really
• 1:44:21
  feel internally. That's almost fought against a
• 1:44:24
  lot when we're in just society. The scripture talks about
• 1:44:28
  proving all things and hold on to what's good.
• 1:44:31
  And then whose eyes? Are we right in?
• 1:44:34
  Are we right in other people's eyes?
• 1:44:36
  Are we right in our own eyes now?
• 1:44:38
  We write in the horses eyes. Those are developed through
• 1:44:43
  interaction, awareness, clarity through engagement to gain
• 1:44:47
  awareness. You know, utilizing techniques
• 1:44:49
  that do work to gain this awareness.
• 1:44:53
  You know, no one's up there with us on our horse when we're when
• 1:44:57
  we're riding or when we're gone. So their opinions and their
• 1:45:01
  whatever influence should not matter.
• 1:45:05
  It really doesn't matter. So what's true and honest does
• 1:45:09
  matter. And when you go inward and you
• 1:45:12
  align and present to that horse, and you are OK with changing
• 1:45:17
  based on feedback because the horse is only going to give you
• 1:45:19
  the truth. They're not.
• 1:45:21
  They don't have a reason to lie. They're going to give you what's
• 1:45:24
  true and honest back. You process that and then make
• 1:45:29
  the necessary corrective changes present again.
• 1:45:33
  And then you get into that feedback loop to where outside
• 1:45:36
  influences have little to no effect on it.
• 1:45:38
  And then do you know how you prove it and know that it's
• 1:45:41
  right? It works and it works desirable
• 1:45:45
  and it enhances and it enriches. You feel it, you know it.
• 1:45:49
  It's it's so true and honest. You wouldn't want to do anything
• 1:45:52
  else regardless of what someone says.
• 1:45:55
  You know I went up against that a little bit.
• 1:45:57
  You know in the in the early days of going bitless and and
• 1:46:02
  making changes in in a culture that I was in where people had
• 1:46:06
  traditional practices and you know they wore spurs and they
• 1:46:09
  they they dominated their horses and and looked at animals
• 1:46:15
  beneath them, cattle, horses, whatever.
• 1:46:21
  When I said look I'm going to prove this is that true?
• 1:46:25
  And then I just made a hard, fast decision.
• 1:46:28
  No, it's not true. Our animals are equal.
• 1:46:32
  They're not beneath us. You know, they serve a purpose
• 1:46:36
  on this life just like we do. They they need to fulfill it and
• 1:46:41
  and we should not obstruct that or or create an irritation in
• 1:46:45
  that. And they're designed for certain
• 1:46:47
  things to fulfill their purpose. So they're the thinking in that
• 1:46:53
  realm. It's only going to inhibit
• 1:46:57
  advancement. It's going to inhibit the
• 1:47:00
  ability to grow and develop and fulfill the purposes we are all
• 1:47:04
  called to do, you know, and we can go dive deep on all that.
• 1:47:08
  But when I made that change for myself, I didn't really care
• 1:47:12
  what other people thought anymore.
• 1:47:13
  It's like, no, I'm going to ride my Mustang in a in a in a bit
• 1:47:16
  less bridle and I'm going to ask them questions.
• 1:47:19
  I love bitless bridle because I took over 5000 people trail
• 1:47:23
  riding on my horses and they never once yanked on my horse's
• 1:47:27
  mouth and caused them pain. So why wouldn't I love it?
• 1:47:32
  You know, my horses love it and I love my horses.
• 1:47:35
  So I have an extreme knowledge in this, and whenever a horse
• 1:47:42
  focuses on pain, that's just where his attention went, and I
• 1:47:49
  want my horses to focus on me and the questions I'm asking,
• 1:47:53
  not the equipment I'm using to ask with ask it with.
• 1:47:56
  So very well to what a person's opinion is, I want them to focus
• 1:48:01
  on me, not what that person's opinion is.
• 1:48:04
  So outside influences have little to no effect on our
• 1:48:07
  relationship. But of course if I'm if I'm
• 1:48:11
  wrong in something, I'll listen to someone and you know if they
• 1:48:15
  if they if I prove it to be, I'll change.
• 1:48:18
  Man, I want the best for myself. I want the best for my horses
• 1:48:21
  and I want the best for the people that I share horsemanship
• 1:48:24
  with. So I'm open.
• 1:48:26
  I'm not just fixed mindset on. I'm not going to listen.
• 1:48:30
  You know if somebody can prove to me like no, the bit enhances
• 1:48:33
  the horse's mouth, you need to use it.
• 1:48:36
  I may I may change but no one's ever come forth and and and
• 1:48:40
  proven it to me. You know they have they'll have
• 1:48:43
  some excuses and this and that. You know.
• 1:48:45
  Oh I use a bit and I don't hurt my horse.
• 1:48:47
  Well OK good, good. That's you and your horses
• 1:48:50
  feedback loop. Great.
• 1:48:52
  I'm going to teach my horses according to me and the
• 1:48:56
  information I have Privy to, and then I'm going to teach other
• 1:49:00
  people with my horses how to interact based on the
• 1:49:04
  information I'm Privy to. So you know, I follow rules,
• 1:49:08
  philosophies, beliefs, and an interactive system to get
• 1:49:11
  predictable results and it never fails.
• 1:49:13
  I know the title of the podcast. I think you you did bring up
• 1:49:21
  some really key points that I found to also be true, and one
• 1:49:25
  was you have to get to the point where you don't care what other
• 1:49:27
  people think, that that was like a huge thing for me.
• 1:49:32
  I remember when I was just saddle training my first Mustang
• 1:49:37
  and we hadn't been out on the trails much.
• 1:49:40
  There was someone who offered to come over and we were going to
• 1:49:43
  ride with them and she hadn't really been.
• 1:49:46
  Actually, this was probably a little bit down the line because
• 1:49:48
  I had my second Mustang, but she hadn't been around other horses
• 1:49:51
  a lot. And I kind of told myself, you
• 1:49:53
  know what, if she's not comfortable and if she's hyped
• 1:49:56
  up like I'm, I'm not going to ride her, we're just going to
• 1:49:59
  walk. And I'm pretty sure the person I
• 1:50:03
  was with. So my daughter and I went with a
• 1:50:06
  friend and his kids and I'm pretty sure he thought I was an
• 1:50:09
  idiot because I was walking my horse.
• 1:50:12
  But I was at the point where I was like, I don't care.
• 1:50:16
  I want this to like to be a good experience.
• 1:50:18
  I don't want something bad to happen.
• 1:50:21
  And also I kind of know what I can handle anxiety wise.
• 1:50:24
  And if we're ready for this, which I didn't feel ready and I
• 1:50:29
  wanted to kind of gauge that and be open to her, not so committed
• 1:50:33
  that like we were going to ride this.
• 1:50:35
  So I really think for me that's been a huge thing to not care
• 1:50:39
  what other people think to get to that point where it's not
• 1:50:42
  much of an influence at all. And then the other thing that
• 1:50:48
  has made a difference for me, you talked a lot about how you
• 1:50:53
  were taught a pretty harsh way to train horses.
• 1:50:56
  And when I first got my Mustang, there were different ideas and
• 1:51:01
  things. I would kind of look around at
• 1:51:03
  the different horse trainers and some stuff to me felt really
• 1:51:07
  good and right. And then there were other things
• 1:51:09
  that I just personally didn't. It just didn't seem like it was
• 1:51:12
  right. I feel like this kind of goes to
• 1:51:14
  maybe a sixth sense that we have like something internally that's
• 1:51:18
  trying to direct us in a better direction that the outside
• 1:51:21
  forces maybe aren't telling us. But for me, that was a big
• 1:51:25
  thing, and that was something that I was really attracted to
• 1:51:28
  when I found your training is that a lot of it seemed to
• 1:51:32
  resonate more with how I wanted to have the relationship with my
• 1:51:36
  horse. And I think another important
• 1:51:38
  point, you said that you would listen to some people if they
• 1:51:42
  had good information to give you.
• 1:51:44
  And I think it's really important when we're looking to
• 1:51:46
  where we get information, is it from someone who's doing what we
• 1:51:50
  want to do and in the way we want to do it?
• 1:51:52
  And I think that has a huge impact if we're looking to for
• 1:51:58
  looking to someone who's already done kind of what we're wanting
• 1:52:01
  to do and that they've been able to do it effectively in a way
• 1:52:04
  that we can feel good about. I think that's what I found when
• 1:52:08
  I ran into your training methods and your all the things that you
• 1:52:12
  taught. Yeah, you know it's we're a
• 1:52:16
  social creature. We're supposed to interact.
• 1:52:19
  We'll gather with like minded believers and their strength in
• 1:52:23
  numbers and that's that's the way I and building American
• 1:52:28
  Mustang School right now. I'm I'm gathering a community of
• 1:52:31
  people that have a centered desire for life enrichment for
• 1:52:38
  horses and people. I mean, that's that's pretty
• 1:52:41
  much it in a nutshell. But the wild Mustang especially
• 1:52:44
  and then the military, you know, are my 2 passions.
• 1:52:49
  But the the thing about listening to other people, it
• 1:52:54
  goes back to prove all things hold on to what's good because
• 1:52:56
  I've learned some of the best things from the worst people as
• 1:52:59
  far as where they were at that time.
• 1:53:02
  Now everybody can grow and develop and change and become
• 1:53:05
  something different. But I, you know certain times
• 1:53:07
  that you you align or you paths cross so to speak.
• 1:53:13
  I don't really like to judge anybody.
• 1:53:15
  It's it's kind of like well where they are today.
• 1:53:18
  I I don't agree with that and I'm not going to implement that.
• 1:53:21
  But then I've crossed paths with them later and they'd changed
• 1:53:26
  and it's like, Oh yeah, that's pretty good.
• 1:53:28
  I'll do that too. So it's that openness and that
• 1:53:32
  creative mindset that is going to be much more of an advantage
• 1:53:37
  than a disadvantage. And you know, outside
• 1:53:41
  influences, they go back to what you process them as.
• 1:53:46
  You can control those as you take them in through your eyes,
• 1:53:50
  your ears and process them. You can say, you know, through
• 1:53:53
  those two senses, you can say yes or no.
• 1:53:56
  It's just that simple. And you know, humans, we, we
• 1:54:00
  like to create our own worry, you know, create our own
• 1:54:04
  aversions, I guess is a better word.
• 1:54:06
  We care what other people think when generally they're not even
• 1:54:11
  thinking about us. You know, we're not even on
• 1:54:14
  their radar. So it's like pay attention to
• 1:54:17
  ourselves, you know, got to take care of ourselves first or we
• 1:54:23
  can't take care of anything else.
• 1:54:25
  So mentally, physically, spiritually, we have to be
• 1:54:29
  strengthening ourselves every single day, every single day and
• 1:54:34
  then presenting to the world and then observing feedback from the
• 1:54:39
  world, making changes, do it again.
• 1:54:42
  I mean that's that's that's how it works.
• 1:54:45
  And people can have a choice, they can either do it or don't
• 1:54:49
  or they can consciously do it or not.
• 1:54:51
  And at the end of the day, whatever you think and do, you
• 1:54:56
  become. It's just that simple.
• 1:54:57
  Right. Yeah.
• 1:54:59
  We really do create our reality through our thoughts.
• 1:55:03
  It goes back to how we were talking about how they label
• 1:55:06
  horses. For a lot of people, Mustangs
• 1:55:10
  are seen. I remember when I got, when I
• 1:55:13
  was thinking about getting a Mustang, people would tell me
• 1:55:15
  that's such a bad idea. They're so dangerous.
• 1:55:19
  And so for many people, we really do create the reality
• 1:55:22
  through the words we used, through our perception and the
• 1:55:26
  thoughts that we allow into it, and which is a really powerful
• 1:55:30
  principle, I think, because that means that we can create any
• 1:55:34
  reality we want. Really.
• 1:55:36
  We can, like you say, look at these hard things that are
• 1:55:38
  happening and say this is great. I got to learn something new.
• 1:55:44
  I think that's having that creative mindset is a challenge,
• 1:55:48
  though. Yeah, I could be.
• 1:55:51
  But think of it this way. Developing a creative mindset is
• 1:55:57
  staying curious and all of us that well.
• 1:56:02
  I shouldn't speak for everyone, but most of the people I know
• 1:56:05
  that got into Mustangs was a a sheer curiosity.
• 1:56:08
  Like what is it to be like? What is, what is it going to be
• 1:56:11
  like? Wow, they're so majestic.
• 1:56:13
  You know, there's a there was a draw or a pull.
• 1:56:17
  And I think it's much bigger than just the Mustang.
• 1:56:20
  I think it's that information that we're all longing for that
• 1:56:23
  to flow into us to give us answers, you know, the the three
• 1:56:27
  answers everybody wants. Where do we come from while
• 1:56:29
  we're here? Where are we going?
• 1:56:30
  You know and and horses, they have the ability to to create
• 1:56:35
  some sort of a conduit to discover that And the wild ones
• 1:56:41
  especially because they haven't been domesticated and atrophied
• 1:56:44
  and a lot of the things Mustangs haven't that that unknown is
• 1:56:50
  such a draw. I mean man has to create.
• 1:56:54
  I mean, I know, OK, I'm going to say something that may, may, may
• 1:56:58
  make some people mad or whatever, but I know we haven't
• 1:57:00
  gone to the moon. We would have built something up
• 1:57:02
  there already. You know, we want to create
• 1:57:05
  stuff. That is really true that we
• 1:57:06
  always want to create, no? That's funny.
• 1:57:09
  I'm just joking about the moon thing.
• 1:57:10
  I don't know, maybe we didn't, but.
• 1:57:13
  It's I don't know either. I wasn't there but.
• 1:57:15
  It's it's one thing I've I've figured out in my short little
• 1:57:18
  life community of people is important.
• 1:57:22
  Everyone wants to be competent in what they're doing.
• 1:57:25
  Everyone wants to be authentic and and what they do and know
• 1:57:31
  and they want to be part of something that they're
• 1:57:33
  contributing to that that's valuable.
• 1:57:36
  You know a community they want to be part of a community that
• 1:57:40
  that they're valuable in. And horses are the same way.
• 1:57:43
  You know they have a community. They they want to be competent
• 1:57:46
  of what they're doing and and they're they're already
• 1:57:48
  authentic. You know but people you know
• 1:57:51
  there's there's there's an element to people that when they
• 1:57:54
  drift out of that conscious awareness of what they're
• 1:57:57
  thinking and doing and becoming, they're susceptible to to things
• 1:58:02
  that they don't want and neither does society.
• 1:58:05
  You know, I mean we can go to the extreme of of you know,
• 1:58:09
  we'll just call them bad behavior people.
• 1:58:11
  We don't want that. We want good behavior people and
• 1:58:14
  we want mentally well people. We want happy people.
• 1:58:18
  People find joy in what they do day-to-day and and we want to be
• 1:58:22
  surrounded by those type of people and horsemanship allows
• 1:58:26
  people to. I mean I've found a streamlined
• 1:58:30
  way for people to do that and that's that's a man.
• 1:58:33
  That's a powerful thing. That's a very profound thing to
• 1:58:38
  be a part of to see what these wild horses can actually do for
• 1:58:41
  humanity. In my opinion, they're they're
• 1:58:44
  called to heal broken man. Yeah, I've found the same thing.
• 1:58:50
  And I think you talk a lot about awareness and I don't know if I
• 1:58:53
  would have labeled it like that be before conversations with
• 1:58:56
  you. But there is just this chance to
• 1:59:00
  be with horses that really get you out of all those external
• 1:59:05
  influences that that are maybe promoting, you know, things that
• 1:59:10
  aren't so good, whether it's wasting time on pursuits that
• 1:59:16
  have no value at the end. You mentioned watching TV or
• 1:59:20
  whatever social media these days and just how by having that time
• 1:59:27
  with them we kind of can come back into awareness of
• 1:59:31
  ourselves. It's almost like we get, if you
• 1:59:34
  don't have that in some form, it's so easy to get so sucked in
• 1:59:39
  to to the culture and just the information constantly being
• 1:59:44
  thrown at us that it's very confusing I think.
• 1:59:48
  Yeah. In my advice to anybody that's
• 1:59:50
  in that situation where they they got some confusion about it
• 1:59:55
  make a change, but make make small changes and and try for
• 1:59:58
  seven days and no nothing in seven days is working change.
• 2:00:03
  Try something else. You know people say I want to
• 2:00:06
  adopt A wild Mustang horse. It's like OK and I'm going to
• 2:00:10
  I'm going to train this horse in 30 days and this and that and
• 2:00:12
  it's like all right good, good, that's a good plan.
• 2:00:15
  Have you written down what you're going to do day-to-day
• 2:00:18
  and it like a training log? And then as you do it, you know,
• 2:00:21
  check, check it off and make some changes and they're like,
• 2:00:24
  no, but it, but I got it all in my, in my mind to do this, I'm
• 2:00:27
  going to do it. And it's like, yeah, I love your
• 2:00:30
  enthusiasm, but you're probably not going to do it because you
• 2:00:32
  haven't been doing it. You know, you go from zero to
• 2:00:36
  too much too fast, too soon. And it's kind of like with the
• 2:00:39
  horses, it'll unravel pretty quick.
• 2:00:42
  So you got to set realistic expectations.
• 2:00:46
  You know or have realistic expectations to set goals, but,
• 2:00:51
  you know follow through with the cycles that it takes to do it.
• 2:00:56
  And then it's much easier, you know, to flow, to create a flow
• 2:01:00
  of, you know, information, thinking, doing, creating a
• 2:01:06
  habit that'll solidify and abiding in those laws, you know,
• 2:01:10
  understanding them. A lot of people don't understand
• 2:01:12
  what laws are there. You know, law of compensation,
• 2:01:16
  which is time takes the time it takes.
• 2:01:18
  You know, you go plant a seed and you can't run out there in
• 2:01:22
  three weeks expecting it to be there's.
• 2:01:23
  No substitute for time, yeah. Yeah.
• 2:01:26
  And then there's a formula it takes.
• 2:01:28
  So there's like dirt, water, sunlight, time, wind, all these
• 2:01:32
  things have to happen when they happen.
• 2:01:35
  So in horse training, a wild Mustang, the person has to start
• 2:01:39
  getting in alignment to create an efficient and effective way
• 2:01:43
  of doing it. You know, that's that's what I
• 2:01:46
  studied and and tried to master in the mountains.
• 2:01:49
  That's that's why I can take a wild horse and ride them in
• 2:01:53
  three to 5 to 810 days when you know, comparing some people say,
• 2:02:00
  man, I'm not even on my horse and it's it's it's 111th day,
• 2:02:04
  it's, it's. Been a year.
• 2:02:06
  That's a year for me. Yeah, well, that's OK.
• 2:02:09
  That's a beautiful story that you have that you could tell.
• 2:02:12
  And what you're not accounting for, what I wasn't accounting
• 2:02:15
  for is that you put in your year.
• 2:02:18
  It was just in a different way. You know that time of learning,
• 2:02:21
  like you, like we said, there's no substitute for it.
• 2:02:24
  You put in your time, it was somewhere else.
• 2:02:26
  And now I'm just seeing these results and wondering why am I
• 2:02:29
  not getting these same results when I haven't put in all that
• 2:02:33
  time and effort. And I think that's one of the
• 2:02:36
  best things people can do to help Mustangs is if you're
• 2:02:39
  willing to put in that time to learn about them so that you can
• 2:02:43
  do it yourself. I I know a lot of them end up
• 2:02:46
  and not great places because it's not AI wouldn't say it's an
• 2:02:50
  easy process until maybe you've learned it down the line.
• 2:02:54
  Now I think I would know a lot more if I got a brand new horse.
• 2:02:59
  But I mean, this is 8 years later now, so it's not an
• 2:03:05
  instantaneous process, but I do think it's a huge opportunity to
• 2:03:09
  learn and because it is difficult, you gain so much from
• 2:03:14
  it. Man, I I want to tell your
• 2:03:17
  audience how impressive you are. Six children, Dragon baby.
• 2:03:24
  And I'm gonna get me a Mustang. I mean, there's people that have
• 2:03:27
  priority lists. You know, if you just like, took
• 2:03:30
  that, throw it in the trash and be like, here we go.
• 2:03:32
  I know. I'm almost embarrassed because
• 2:03:34
  I'm like, what? I look back now.
• 2:03:36
  What was I thinking? Like?
• 2:03:37
  I don't know. I was just, I don't know, going
• 2:03:40
  for it, I guess. But go for it, yeah.
• 2:03:43
  Yeah, but it took a lot on the other side, you know, It was
• 2:03:47
  easy getting the horse on the other side.
• 2:03:49
  Yeah, it was. Well, that's a long.
• 2:03:52
  Process. That's the common thing I see in
• 2:03:54
  Mustang people is they're different people.
• 2:03:57
  They're they're go getters. They're they're like I'm gonna
• 2:04:00
  step out and do this. I'm gonna go into the unknown
• 2:04:04
  and you know, it's not for everybody.
• 2:04:07
  I'll say that I I would love for everybody to experience the, the
• 2:04:11
  wealth of knowledge that comes from it.
• 2:04:13
  But you know, I have, I have good friends.
• 2:04:15
  They're they're never going to be training a wild Mustang.
• 2:04:18
  No way. But you know, that's OK.
• 2:04:21
  Yeah, it it's it's a neat experience if it calls you.
• 2:04:26
  I would just say if you feel like this is the thing for you,
• 2:04:30
  but do your work and take your time.
• 2:04:32
  Because it's. I mean, it's probably the place
• 2:04:36
  I've learned more lessons than almost anywhere else in my life.
• 2:04:40
  Maybe anywhere trying to figure figure it all out.
• 2:04:45
  Well, before we close, I'd like to give some good advice, you
• 2:04:49
  know. Yeah.
• 2:04:51
  If a person's listening and they're considering training a
• 2:04:54
  wild horse, or they got one and they're stuck, get a mentor, Get
• 2:04:59
  a coach. Don't be afraid to do that
• 2:05:02
  because a good mentor, a good coach has invested the time.
• 2:05:06
  It takes thousands and thousands of hours, 10s of thousands of
• 2:05:09
  hours. They'll save you so much time.
• 2:05:12
  You'll learn three years of information but won't be three
• 2:05:16
  years older when you get it. And that's that's the best
• 2:05:19
  advice. And you know, prove all things,
• 2:05:22
  hold on to what's good and what works for you.
• 2:05:25
  And you know if it's not jiving dust your feet move on and get a
• 2:05:28
  get a different mentor or or get a different coach.
• 2:05:32
  But it's it's one thing that I didn't do.
• 2:05:37
  You know I'm giving advice right now that I didn't do I didn't go
• 2:05:40
  get a mentor or coach in horsemanship.
• 2:05:42
  I just went straight to the horse and and I was fortunate
• 2:05:46
  that that it worked out the way it did but but I just everything
• 2:05:51
  aligned for me to be able to do that I'm in the mountains
• 2:05:54
  there's there's no coaches. So you know I acquired these
• 2:05:58
  free horses and you know happened to be Mustang and 14
• 2:06:03
  days to touch him. And then you know, I had some
• 2:06:05
  horse experience, but it wasn't good information that I I I knew
• 2:06:09
  wasn't good information. So I had to discover it alone.
• 2:06:12
  But it took, it took, it probably took more time than it
• 2:06:16
  really would have if I had gotten a mentor.
• 2:06:20
  But you know for me it didn't align that way.
• 2:06:23
  But I am here to say I've I listen to mentors now, not
• 2:06:28
  necessarily on horsemanship or horse training, but but on
• 2:06:30
  coaching people. Because I got real good at
• 2:06:33
  horses, but I wasn't necessarily good at people.
• 2:06:36
  And today I listen to mentors explain how to be good with
• 2:06:42
  people. And if you want to be great, you
• 2:06:45
  got to help many, and that's people.
• 2:06:49
  Trade in value is people. You want to earn money and
• 2:06:53
  horsemanship. You need people because horses
• 2:06:56
  will not give you a dollar. People.
• 2:06:59
  That's important and it's it's one of those things going into
• 2:07:03
  it. You know before adoption, during
• 2:07:05
  adoption, and after adoption, get a mentor that you trust and
• 2:07:10
  you know that can coach you and give you the information you
• 2:07:13
  need to be efficient, effective and you know reach the the goals
• 2:07:21
  that you you want. Yeah.
• 2:07:25
  And you talked a lot about the importance of community and then
• 2:07:28
  surrounding yourself with people who help you in positive ways.
• 2:07:33
  And I think that's something I've also found true.
• 2:07:36
  And at the same time, I think it's something that we're both
• 2:07:40
  working on creating. I know that's your intention
• 2:07:44
  with like your Zoom meetings, right?
• 2:07:45
  And then you talk about a mentor.
• 2:07:47
  And I can attest that, like you were a really good mentor for
• 2:07:51
  me. I still did a lot of it on my
• 2:07:53
  own, but it's there were times when you know, like I just
• 2:07:56
  needed that boost or I just needed this piece of
• 2:08:00
  information, a place where I was stuck.
• 2:08:02
  And so I 100% agree with that and I think that you're a great
• 2:08:07
  resource that people can be pointed to for that, you know,
• 2:08:10
  links to how people can find you and take advantage of the work
• 2:08:15
  you do. And I know you have paid
• 2:08:17
  content, you also have free content you offer.
• 2:08:21
  So there's lots of, there's lots of different ways to kind of get
• 2:08:26
  more information. Yeah, American mustangschool.com
• 2:08:30
  is the website. And then we have American
• 2:08:32
  Mustang School on YouTube. That'll be free content and then
• 2:08:39
  weekly zoom sessions for direct access to me, just kind of like
• 2:08:45
  this. And that'll be a group, and
• 2:08:49
  that's paid content. And then I have a Facebook
• 2:08:52
  group. You can find that through my
• 2:08:53
  website. Yeah, And and that's one thing
• 2:08:57
  that helped me a lot was the Facebook group.
• 2:08:59
  Definitely one that I would recommend people where they can
• 2:09:03
  connect with their horses in a really deep way, but at the same
• 2:09:08
  time making progress and doing those things that you dream of.
• 2:09:11
  I know for me, for so long it was a dream to like take my kids
• 2:09:15
  out riding these horses. And I'm doing it now.
• 2:09:19
  And like I say, it's been, you know, that was eight years ago
• 2:09:22
  when I started. But it's so cool to, yeah, to be
• 2:09:27
  on the other side of it and see, see it.
• 2:09:29
  And it wasn't easy at all. There were a lot of obstacles in
• 2:09:33
  the way. But it really is possible to to
• 2:09:37
  get to the place you want to be. Well, if you believe it, if you
• 2:09:40
  think it and you believe it, you you can achieve it.
• 2:09:43
  Here's how I know it's true. I'll It's called a horse to
• 2:09:46
  guide me. And in that book I kind of
• 2:09:49
  reference what you're you're talking about there where if you
• 2:09:52
  if you think it and you believe it, you can achieve it.
• 2:09:56
  And I don't want to spoil that story in the book with the
• 2:09:59
  Mustang of mine, moonshine, but I don't necessarily even want to
• 2:10:04
  ride with a bitless bridle. I don't want to ride with a
• 2:10:07
  saddle. And I have another Mustang that
• 2:10:10
  a lot of people know. She's more famous than I'll ever
• 2:10:12
  be. But her name's Cinnamon, and I
• 2:10:16
  can get on that horse. And when I'm in a total
• 2:10:19
  alignment, I can ride or bridle us and bareback and we can go
• 2:10:23
  anywhere in the world we want to go.
• 2:10:26
  And outside influences will have zero effect on our feedback
• 2:10:30
  loop. And of course, a layman watching
• 2:10:33
  that is like, that's amazing, how do you do that?
• 2:10:36
  But it's based on if you listen to the last two hours of this
• 2:10:40
  podcast, it's based on inner self-control and timing, rhythm
• 2:10:47
  presentation to the horse to get the the feedback, knowing that
• 2:10:53
  horse as an individual and putting them number one and
• 2:10:58
  they'll take care of me when I need them to the most.
• 2:11:01
  Yeah, definitely. Don't be afraid to think outside
• 2:11:05
  how you think it all should. Go have that creative mindset
• 2:11:08
  where you are ready to try things that don't seem like they
• 2:11:13
  maybe make sense. That's right.
• 2:11:15
  Well, thanks for having me on this podcast, Shay.
• 2:11:18
  Lisa, I'm so proud of you for doing this.
• 2:11:20
  So many people will need this. This is good.
• 2:11:23
  Thank you. I'm super excited about it and I
• 2:11:25
  can't tell you how much I appreciate your support and
• 2:11:28
  encouragement. I feel like we could do this
• 2:11:30
  again and dig deeper into some stuff down the line if you're up
• 2:11:34
  for it, so. Let's do it.
• 2:11:36
  My favorite subject. Thank you for joining us and
• 2:11:39
  learning about horses that heal and the humans who help them.
• 2:11:42
  We hope you'll continue with us on this journey.
• 2:11:45
  We'd love for you to subscribe on your favorite platform and
• 2:11:47
  follow the touch of a Mustang on any of the major social media
• 2:11:50
  outlets. Please share with your friends
• 2:11:53
  anyone who loves horses or anyone who might be struggling
• 2:11:56
  and could benefit from this message.
• 2:11:58
  If you have felt the healing power of horses or help them in
• 2:12:02
  their divinely appointed mission, please reach out.
• 2:12:04
  We want to hear your story as we say goodbye.
• 2:12:07
  Always remember that the horse is always there to help you
• 2:12:11
  heal.