Latest / The Dustlight Archives / NXIVM: Episode 3: The Cafritz Family, DC Real Estate, And Charles Manson

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NXIVM: Episode 3: The Cafritz Family, DC Real Estate, And Charles Manson · The Dustlight Archives

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Jimmy Falangong, one of the greatest to ever do it, was fond of saying, All history is family history.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a simple saying, but it is absolutely brilliant in both its pithiness and its depth.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: The deeper you research into parapolitics, the more you realize that the family unit is the first layer of cultural control, and that there are people out there with long multi-generational narratives or psychologies that are unfamiliar to you because you didn't grow up in them.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: The mistake the less rigorous analysts of this dynamic make is to imagine there are five families that all control everything.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong, the Rothschilds hold tremendous power, and will in fact be showing up in the margins of this story before it's over.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: But them, or the Rockefellers, or the Bushes, are not in fact omnipotent and expertly puppeteering every aspect of the world we live in.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: There is a larger, deeper force at play here, and they are but one strata in a strange ecosystem of complicity that includes thousands of little families all playing their part, spurred on by the material advantages bestowed upon them and a sort of ever snowballing, increasingly normalized, parasitical relationship with the institutions they serve.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: If there's no ethical consumption under capitalism, and this show operates under the assumption that there isn't, then most of us live at the bottom rung.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: We work in institutions that launder money, sell goods made by coerced labor, or distribute propaganda.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: We go home and unwind with products built on exploitation.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's the baseline.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody like Keith Rainier or the Salzmans exist a little higher up on this tree, consciously dominating and causing human misery for their advantage in more direct ways.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: But still seemingly disparate satellites in the larger picture, who found a grift, turned off their consciences if they ever had them, and took advantage of it.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: But as we travel even a little higher, we begin to find larger networks with longer histories, small ecosystems that control and perpetuate the system on a deeper level than those that came before.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Groups whose histories go back further and who inculcated this pathology into their children, or even their children's children, until normal itself looks very different.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: In these families, the idea of sacrificing a child, emotionally, socially, or physically, stops being unthinkable.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: It becomes a rational transaction inside a closed moral economy.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And if Nancy and Lauren Salzman showed us what happens when pathology is passed down one generation, the Kaffritz family shows us what it looks like when it calcifies over a few more.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Dust Light Archives.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, so I think this is the moment where our story really starts to spiral out and to turn into something bigger than what we are usually told.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think in the first two episodes, not counting the prologue, you know, the stories I've told you about Keith Rainier or Nancy Salzman, I may be able to point out some incongruities, or there may be things to examine that are not normally examined when this story is told.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, you could pretty much map the the typical mainstream story onto this.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: You just would you would have to change exactly what roles Keith and Nancy and Lauren had and where the power lied a little bit, but it's still not that wild of a story.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's still at the end of the day, it's like okay, an MLM guy and a woman in the neurolinguistic programming got together and they created a business that turned into a cult.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: But this is the moment, and it's far from the last moment, to be honest.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: I in fact, I would like to believe the way I've structured this that every week we are going to go deeper and weirder from here on out.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Cafferit's family is the first moment where you really have to be like, okay, what the fuck were they doing here?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And who are these people?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because these people are really powerful DC billionaires and major real estate developers, and they are I won't call them old money, but they're not Nouveau Reach either.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you will find Pamela all over every telling of this story.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: She is somebody who is with Keith from the very beginning.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: She is in some ways his other second in command.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: If Nancy Salzman is the software to his hardware, then Pamela Kafritz is almost like a surrogate wife.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: You will find her in a ton of photos, you will find her all over in the documentary The Vow, just kind of hanging out in the background of scenes.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And she doesn't get brought up that much.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Not for how often she is visibly there.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like she is physically in these spaces so often that I would say it almost strikes me as odd how little her name and who she is actually comes up in these stories.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess like let's start with their family history a little bit.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So Morris Kafritz was born in 1878.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: He is a Lithuanian immigrant, and he moved to New York when he was 10 in DC shortly after.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: And when he got here pretty quickly, his parents bought some property in DC.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, they were like bowling alleys and saloons, bars, places like this.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is important to understand that's the sort of situation he grew up in.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that so much of this family and the role that they play in our government really comes down to this sort of ability to socially connect and to bring people together, particularly through real estate, as we'll see.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: So there's something about it that I think is very poetic, I think is very accurate to the larger picture that the first thing they owned was bowling alleys and saloons.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, where do where did these people from the Pentagon and from the OSS and PC staffers and places like that go when they're not working?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Where do they have their informal conversations?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one of those places would be in certain buildings like this.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: But we will see the family move more towards the center of this sort of social network as time moves on.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, if bowling alleys and bars are kind of the outside ring of these sorts of informal social networks, things like house parties and buildings where these people live, as well as like spaces for them to click clandestinely meet, are even more so.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they're deeper inside of the circle.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, what the Wikipedia story is, the kind of mainstream view of what happens around the 1940s is that the US military-industrial complex is winding down.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, World War II has just ended, and as this is happening, Morris Kaferitz spends over a million dollars on a property that ends up being a great investment, I'll say, once the National Security Act of 1947 happens, and the Cold War ramps up and the CIA and the DOD come into existence.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And what this property basically was, is it was like an apartment building called River House Apartments that was literally right next door to the Pentagon.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: He was basically the landlord for a ton of people who were directly involved in these groups.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I was saying before, if you assume that these outside businesses are kind of the first ring, now we're moving in a little bit.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're getting a little bit closer to the center to where the real action happens.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I know the official story is that you know he made a really good purchase at the right time with a major loan.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: I really question whether he had some sort of insider knowledge because this was a massive loan for a person that was still not terribly wealthy.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: They were doing all right, they owned some property, their family owned some property, but a million-dollar loan is no joke, and he was able to buy this place for pennies on the dollar right before this 1947 National Security Act.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Either there's more going on here, or he's just a very, very lucky man.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: If I had to guess, I kind of suspect that him and his family already had some connections, and this idea was sort of nascently floating around that DC and the DC intelligence community were about to blow up.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these sorts of things don't happen without people talking and they don't happen spontaneously.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: You actually do have to, you know, create the groundwork.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: I have to imagine that they probably had some sort of an idea that, you know, that this was going to be a good investment.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Especially because at this point, too, Morris would have married this woman named Gwendolyn Detweiler in 1929.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, she'd obviously become Gwendolyn Kafritz once they're married.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: She was another daughter of immigrants who was sort of a generation ahead of him as far as her wealth and her connections, and she would actually throw these like big social events at her home.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I tried looking into these social events, and you know, especially with all of this Epstein stuff going on and everything, when you hear that, you know, are you like, is this like a Roy Cohn, Epstein, like black male sort of thing?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think it is.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was really more so just dinners, I guess.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Dinners and galas and parties for people to kind of let their hair down and to, you know, talk business in informal settings.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, you know, if you were making these connections before from overhearing conversations in the bar and getting to know people over a few drinks, now the bar is basically your home.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, these these Gala's were famous enough that there was even a sort of like a battle of the hostesses type thing that was framed in the tabloids and the media of the time between her and this name woman named Pearl Metzah.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: The truth of the matter is that like the whole framing is kind of silly because they were doing different things.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Pearl Metza, I think, was really uh dealing more with politicians and you know, senators, and even the president, Lady Bird Johnson, was one of her friends.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I think that Gwendolyn Kafritz was hosting the bureaucracy and she was dealing more with them.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And also as time will go on, this family will get involved more in philanthropy.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: They will get more involved in like having awards and stuff like that.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know that there was an award called the Distinguished Government Employees Award that the Kafritzes funded.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: They also funded the Kennedy Center for a very long time, which I know has been in the news again recently.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so as time goes on, the Kafritzes they get more and more DC real estate.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And they start buying office buildings in parking garages where people are able to come and have discrete meetings.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, okay, even the river house apartments that they owned originally was so connected to the Pentagon that there were literally red phones inside of the building that you could pick up and it would directly link you to the Pentagon on a closed phone line.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: So this is, I mean, this is a real company town for spies.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: But as they expand out, they do, they build these office buildings, they build these parking garages.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for all of my tunnel fans out there, one thing that they would do is they would build these parking garages where you could hum inside of them and then move through tunnels underneath the city to different buildings where you could have meetings so that this would be very secure.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: That you know, you couldn't if you wanted to meet somebody and you wanted to do it in secret without the press knowing or running into somebody, the Kaffritzes could definitely help you with that.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And while I don't think the Kafritzes were necessarily engaging directly in blackmail schemes, I think that when you own those sorts of properties, you are definitely going to start being privy to information that others would like to keep secret, and that gives you a certain level of power.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so Morris Kaffritz, he dies in 1964.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: His one son, Calvin Kaffritz, takes over, and in fact, one of the big things he owns is the building that DARPA was located in.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: It is 3701 North Fairfax, and he owned it from the 1980s until 2012.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, I hope already kind of, you know, with some of these facts I'm laying out, you're starting to get a picture of how kind of quietly powerful these people are.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: But if not, I mean, I think certainly it tells you something when a family owns the building where one of the most strange secretive projects in arguably maybe all of American history is happening.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the point where things start getting really kind of psychedelically weird, because we're gonna talk about Charlene Reitzman, who would marry into the Kaffritz family.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: She would marry Kelvin Kaffritz's brother Conrad, and she was a heiress of a massive oil fortune on her own.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Her family were major DC socialites with close connections to, I mean, the Kennedys and the Johnsons, as well as tons of other people, and she is going to have a story that has so many strange parallels to Pamela Kaffritz of Netzium that comes later that it's almost hard to make any sense of because Charlene Kaffritz was a member of the Manson family.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: She obviously she was not when she married Conrad.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: They were married for a little bit, and at a certain point the story goes that she started getting into kind of the hippie LSD Manson scene, and that her and him got a divorce.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: She got two million dollars in the settlement and went off to travel around with the Manson family and basically spent all of that two million dollars on funding them, which on its own could definitely be read as a woman who is kind of going off the rails a little bit, getting involved in this weird weird cult and funding them.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: But another way you could read it, especially with all of the weird parallels, the fact that this is not the last time that this very specific family will be involved in a massive cult scandal.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Another way you could hypothetically read it, is that for some reason or another, she took Kaffrit's money and then was able to separate it from them in a way where it did not affect their reputation and then use it to fund this cult.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: And her story is so strange, anyways.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there is a great podcast called What is the Process by Rotting Jewels that I think does a great job of, I forget what episode it is.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's episode nine covers her story.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually the first place where I ran into this.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's weird the way when you're doing research like this sometimes that you know I'm just I'm just listening out of recreation to this podcast, and all of a sudden I hear a Kafritz get brought up, and I'm like, wait a minute, I've been learning about the Cafritzes.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: So then, you know, I dug in deeper, but she she does have a pretty good segment on Charlene.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Ed Sanders, the guy who wrote the family, has a lot of really wild claims about her and her time in the Manson family.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: He uh believed, well, okay, I guess I'll say what we know for a fact is she was traveling with them and she was recording a bunch of stuff they were doing, particularly in Reno, particularly in 1968 and 1969, and a bunch of these videotapes she still had once members of the family got arrested, and she was telling people that what was on these videotapes would turn the entire investigation on its head.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we know for a fact.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what Ed Sanders in his book would tell you, and I will say I am inclined to believe him because he strikes me as a pretty good, pretty, pretty thorough investigator who doesn't tend to speak out of pocket and admitted he couldn't prove it, but felt there was enough evidence in there to put it in his book, a book that faced lawsuits, by the way, from places like the Process Church.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: That these were snuff films, which obviously adds a whole other very dark layer to this thing.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: And once the Manson family gets arrested, she goes like in and out of mental health institutions.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: One of those in specific is St.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Elizabeth's, which was a hospital involved in MK Ultra experiments.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was also the hospital where the Kennedy sister got her lobotomy.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: L.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Ron Hubbard at one point worked at this hospital, as well as Hinckley, you know, the uh John Hinckley, the shooter of Ronald Reagan, spent some time there as well.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: I also believe it has ties to fropsy.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then she ends up dying living with her mother in a basement with at 38 years old from an overdose.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: And when she is found and the investigation is done, they catalog the evidence, and the mother is very confused because she says that Charlene had a box of videotapes with her that should have been down there in that basement, but that was never cataloged into evidence and disappeared.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, so you're gonna have to follow me on this family tree for a minute.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: There is another brother beyond Kelvin and Conrad named William Kaffritz, who has a daughter that will grow up to be Pamela Kaffritz of Nexium.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: And she ends up being on the ground floor of Consumer's byline with Keith Rainier in like 1987.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: By 1991, they are living together.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is interesting when I told you last week that I felt like I had found what I felt was pretty close to a Smoking gun for the idea that Heath and Nancy Salzman actually knew each other in the late 80s, a decade before they said.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'll remind you, the reasons I have already laid out is because they were both involved in working with the state in the Albany area, doing typical types of work.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: They both worked for the justice system in the exact same time period, and I don't think it would be much of a stretch to imagine that they could have known each other through that work.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: But what I left out, what I have saved until right now, is that if we go back to Conrad, the man who originally married Charlene, after all of that stuff happens with Charlene, he gets remarried to a woman named Peggy Cooper Kaffritz.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And Peggy Cooper Kaffritz is very good friends with Nancy and Lauren Salzman to the point where she was hosting NLP meetings at her home.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: We don't exactly know what the full extent of their relationship was because in 2009 a fire in Peggy's mansion burned it down, and we lost a bunch of records from that time period, which I will also say 2009 is interesting timing because it's around the very beginning of when Nexium really starts getting investigated.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: But if we know that Nancy and Peggy were friends in the late 80s, and we know that Keith and Pamela were so close, they were starting businesses and living together, I would say that a reasonable person at this point would almost have to disprove the idea that they knew each other because I they're hanging out with like the exact same fucking family, and they're both close to them, they both have close relationships with these people, you know, like it and it's uh woman and her aunt, basically, is you know what we're talking about as far as relational distance here, and they're both living in Albany.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so we kind of talked about Charlene's suspicious death, but this is probably as good of a time as any to get into the two other suspicious deaths, one of them being Pamela's.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: First, I would like to touch on this person named Barb Jesky, who also was involved very early on in Nexium.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, if we're kind of layering this out, like I've said before, as far as like you could almost kind of determine based on the level of family protection that these people have, how much they paid for being in this cult.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: I will say that Pamela Kaffritz is kind of an outlier in this, but we can get to her in a minute.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Barb Jesky definitely follows this pattern perfectly because she had no larger external protection.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: She had no family connections, and in 2014, she got what Nexium doctors would suddenly claim was brain cancer, and she died fairly quickly.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: We don't actually know if she had brain cancer because there is no evidence outside of what these doctors say, and in fact, in her case and in Pamela's case, I will say that even but a lot of uh I'm sorry, I might be repeating myself from an earlier episode, I don't remember, but even a mainstream book or documentary will tend to point out how suspicious these deaths are.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: So Barb Jesky dies in 2014, and in 2017, Pamela gets brain cancer as well, supposedly, and also very rapidly declines.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: After she dies, Keith would keep it a secret for about a year and he would continue to use her credit cards.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Nexium would continue to use her credit cards.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: I should say Nexium, not Keith, because I feel like I'm falling into that trap of kind of blaming this larger organizational thing on a single man.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: With if I frame it that way, it certainly was not only him that was aware of this, and it was not only him that was using these finances.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what the fuck is going on with this family.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: But what I can say is these two both being in these weird cults, both dying under strange circumstances, and then seemingly, I mean, to a degree with their family's blessing, I mean, I will say Charlene's family put her in mental institutions and kept her away from the public and then never investigated further when she died from mysterious circumstances, which can be read a few different ways.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: But seems a lot more intentional with Pamela.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you're in a family like this, somebody continuing to spend money a year after the member of this family has died, continuing to spend the family's money.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: I find it kind of hard to believe that the family is not aware of this and condoning it on some level.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, they never got her any outside medical help, and she was in the exact same situation as Barb, where she was just basically completely under control of like various Nexium-related doctors, you know, staying inside, you know, getting in-house care at these places.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing that I find very interesting about Pamela's death in 2017, besides the timing, which I will say is interesting because she would have known where all the bodies were buried, she would have a great bird's eye view of this entire thing in a lot of ways because she had been there since the very beginning, and then she dies right before people are gonna have to start testifying and questions are going to have to start being asked.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: But if there's something I find suspicious beyond the timing of it, it would be that they've actually been able to test her hair.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Her body was frozen for a while and then cremated.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: No autopsy has ever been able to be done on it, but we did have hair samples, and these hair samples tested very high for barium and bismuth.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: These are two tracer chemicals that you know get used in radiological medical testing, like if you are looking for a tumor or you know, say something like that.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And at first, that kind of scanned to me with the official story where I'm like, well, if she had brain cancer, you would do tests using these chemicals.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: This actually might be evidence for her actually having brain cancer.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: But then I did a little bit more research and I found out that these chemicals actually, one of the reasons they work so well in medical testing is because they move through you very quickly.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And even somebody who was recently medically tested should not have had these chemicals in their hair.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a chemical in your hair, it means that you have been getting dosed with it for a considerable amount of time, and also at the level they had it is much, much higher than the sort of levels you will find with radiological testing.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then so I started looking into what do these chemicals do at very high doses.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: In particular, bismuth will simulate dementia or Alzheimer's in a person, it will actually make them incredibly confused and incapacitated and unable to make sense of the world around them.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't help but feel like if you were trying to pretend this woman had brain cancer and you waded her up with a bunch of drugs, it would make her act like something was wrong with her brain.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: It would serve a dual function of confirming what you're saying while at the same time also making sure that this person is unable to advocate for themselves.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: So my guess based on the available evidence would be that I think she was probably poisoned to death with these chemicals, especially given that somebody else died of brain cancer just a few years earlier, who also would have had a lot of information, died at a very convenient time, starts to seem like a pattern.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: But then, you know, I have to ask, I have to wonder, like I've already, you know, kind of pointed at a couple of times, what is going on with this family?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't have the answers here.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I did.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think that we are going to discover some stuff about some of the other players in this story over the next couple of weeks that is starting going to start making the picture clearer.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like the facts, as well as I can lay them out, are we have a family that's very connected into DC and the Pentagon and intelligence.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: And they have two women from this family die in cults that, you know, I I almost think, especially even if you read a limited hangout like Tom O'Neill's Chaos or something like that, like I think it's almost just even mainstream the idea today that the Manson family was certainly intelligence adjacent, if not directly involved with intelligence themselves.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I definitely plan to make the case going forward that the exact same thing is the case with Nexium.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that being the case, it all starts to look very strange.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, thank you for tuning in again.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you guys always coming back.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: My sources for this week.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry if you can hear my dog in the background.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: He's very excited about our grocery delivery.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, my sources for this week are HBO's The Vow, uh Still Learning with India, Oxenberg, Don't Call It a Cult by Sarah Bergman, several different news stories on the Kaffritz family, One Country Under Blackmail, Volume One, and oh, the uh What is the Process podcast by Roding Jewels.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for tuning in again.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: I will see you next week.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: And next week we are going to be talking about the Bronfmans, and it is only going to get weirder and weirder.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm very excited.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.