Latest / The Fourcast / Virginia Roberts Giuffre was ‘gaslit’ by UK government, Met police and Prince Andrew say her family

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Virginia Roberts Giuffre was ‘gaslit’ by UK government, Met police and Prince Andrew say her family · The Fourcast

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  They were just girls and they were begging the world to
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  believe them and fight for them. She just continued to read it,
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  like what is it going to take for people to finally believe
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  me? And by continuously being gas
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  lit by the UK government, the UK Metropolitan Police, the US
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  government, here, her mind took a very large toll.
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  Virginia did first speak to the Metropolitan Police in London as
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  far back as May 2015. They decided not to continue
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  with any investigation. They reviewed that again in
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  2019, deciding again not to investigate.
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  Is it time for them to review those decisions?
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  100% what else does it have to take?
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  I think the cost of proof is too high for these survivors.
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  Hello and welcome to the forecast.
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  In 2011, Virginia Roberts Jeffrey became known as the most
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  outspoken victim of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.
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  Her campaigning against their abuse and trafficking helped to
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  get justice for many women. But she was perhaps best known
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  for a now infamous photograph taken when she was aged just 17.
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  Meeting with Prince Andrew. She claimed it was taken prior
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  to one of three times she was forced to have sex with the
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  King's brother. There were encounters he denies
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  took place but which have led to his public downfall, with Prince
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  Andrew reportedly paying around £12 million to Virginia Giuffre,
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  formally ending a civil case brought against him in the US
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  earlier this year, Virginia took her own life before she died.
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  She wrote a memoir and made it clear that she wanted the world
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  to read it. Today I'm joined by her brother
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  and sister-in-law, Sky and Amanda Roberts, to talk about
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  the woman behind the headlines, the legacy she leaves, and the
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  story that she wanted to tell in her own words.
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  Can I just begin by asking you, Sky?
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  I'm imagining it is a bittersweet moment.
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  Virginia's story will be published tomorrow.
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  Finally, in her own words, the whole story.
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  But she's not here. That must be quite difficult for
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  you. Yeah, I think it's, you know,
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  the best way to put it is over the last couple of weeks, we've
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  had a lot of happy tears and a lot of sad tears because we've
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  had many moments where she's been vindicated because of her
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  ability to tell her story. And I think people are finally
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  realizing the magnitude of what she was able to accomplish
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  during her time here. And, you know, we're sort of
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  left in place here on the advocacy piece.
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  And a lot of people like, well, why are you guys coming forward
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  now? And the truth is, is that, you
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  know, she always wanted to protect us from these.
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  I remember her so clearly saying, like, I never want this
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  evil to touch you or anyone in this world.
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  So it is really, really difficult to come forward.
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  But she would be, she'd be really proud of this moment.
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  It's a very vindicating moment for her.
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  I was going to ask you about exactly that.
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  I have heard you speak really movingly about how much Virginia
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  tried to protect you as her younger brother.
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  There are clearly some really difficult details in the book
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  that she feared she would die as a sex slave at the hands of
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  Epstein. I mean, are there things that
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  you have had to read that you have had to face for the first
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  time? I think we knew a lot of the
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  information that was going to come out.
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  She was very transparent with us about sort of some of the
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  intimate details that were going to be in there.
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  However, it's very different when you read it on a page.
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  I think, you know, growing up, I had known there were threats in
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  my life, at least specifically from Epstein and Maxwell.
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  That's something that she had shared with me.
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  But it's just very different when it jumps out at you on the
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  page. And, you know, I want to be
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  clear, like it's, it's crazy, 'cause you can hear her voice in
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  that book like I can, I can read the pages and I just feel like I
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  can hear her in there. And I want to commend, you know,
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  Amy Wallace and the, the, you know, Penguin Random House for
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  coming out because the truth is like it's, it's, it's really
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  hard read, but I think it's very impactful.
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  She suffered a great deal throughout her life, that is
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  clear. One of the things that has
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  struck me endlessly about this story is there's so much talk
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  about how rich Jeffrey Epstein was, all his friends, the
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  private planes, the private island, the fancy houses.
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  It's a world that you know, all for connotations of glamour in
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  this context, all details that hide the brutal reality of what
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  was happening to Virginia and the other girls.
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  But your sister's book will expose this all for what it was,
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  which was exploitation, violence, sexual violence.
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  I think that is why this book is so important for a read.
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  We get caught up in the salaciousness of of survivors
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  naming names and what this book does, it really makes you take a
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  step back and peek through the eyes of a vulnerable young girl,
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  young child, teenager, what this world was like.
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  And it really does address that, right?
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  Because so many people critiqued these girls for saying, you
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  know, they could have just left and and, you know, they received
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  money. So and, and it was lavish and
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  that salaciousness of it, but it was abuse, It was coercive
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  control, it was intimidation, it was threats to their lives.
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  It was a violent. And I think it like brings back
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  the humanity, especially if you're a parent, this could
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  happen to your own child, you know, and you really see that.
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  You really see that, like this is the girl next door and it
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  could have been my neighbor, it could be my child, it could be a
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  family member. And it really just brings you
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  back to that that shock and that humanity and it makes you want
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  to act. It makes you want to fight.
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  For that little girl. Who was begging?
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  The world to stand up for her. They were just girls and they
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  were begging the world to believe them and fight for them.
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  And I think that's what's so powerful about this book,
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  because you really see that little girl begging for that
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  healing and that justice. And you absolutely get the sense
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  that she was begging for accountability for people to
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  take responsibility. And not only do the individuals
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  fail to take responsibility, but the organisations, the
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  structures around them, in too many instances didn't force
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  anyone to take responsibility. Yeah, I think that's another
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  thing that it does. And I think with this Jeffrey
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  Epstein, Dillane Maxwell case and why it's so strong and why
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  people. Care.
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  About this case so much, it's, it's not just about the abuse of
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  children, which is heinous, but it also shows the exposure of
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  systems that have said for far too long, there is one set of
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  laws for the rich and powerful, and then there is another set of
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  laws for those who aren't. And, and it makes people angry
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  because it's gone on for decades.
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  And it really is that exposure of the abuse of power of, of the
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  abuse of the rich and powerful, the lengths that they went to
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  intimidate these girls, to discredit them, to defame them,
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  threatening their lives. It makes you angry as a person
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  because it's like that. That could have been my child.
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  And why are we allowing these systems to exist?
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  We have to do better. We have to go after legislation
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  and we have to expose those who have been abusing their
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  positions for far too long. Alongside the work that both of
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  you are doing, the book is the sort of posthumous continuation
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  of that fight for accountability.
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  Now, obviously, we got the announcement last week that
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  Prince Andrew has voluntarily agreed to give up his royal
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  titles. Is this in your view enough, or
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  should this actually be the beginning of a new process to
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  look at again at his involvement with Epstein?
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  Yeah, really happy you asked that, because I think what the
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  book is is it's more of it. And I think what happened with
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  Prince Andrew wasn't, it's not justice, it's acknowledgement.
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  It's saying something could have happened here.
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  And they're kind of starting to take some sort of action to that
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  now. You know, he didn't do himself
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  any favors by any means, especially with, you know,
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  commenting in 2018 that, you know, he had ceased contact.
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  And then in 2011, we've got this set of emails that are released
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  that essentially say we'll play again soon and we're in this
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  together, right? So do I think it's enough?
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  No, absolutely not. I think we have a lot of work to
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  do. I can hear my sister saying that
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  she she would not stop here. So I would say it's not justice,
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  it's acknowledgement. And we need to be able to
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  separate those two things because there is more work to do
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  and there's more people that are complicit here, not just Prince
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  Andrew, but so many others that we need to be held to account.
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  And I want to ask you a couple of things about about potential
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  justice, potential, more potential accountability.
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  First of all, though, if you don't mind, he has voluntarily
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  given up these titles. They he wasn't forced, although
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  there's discussions in the background reports that the king
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  did try to force his hand. Should the king strip him of the
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  title of Prince, do you think? I think yes, I think again,
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  it's, it's just, it's not enough.
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  I think survivors have been living in the shadows with this
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  trauma that has happened to them.
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  They haven't been able to heal for so long.
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  When do we actually start to see repercussions that that really
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  affect him? I think that we can go further.
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  That would be something that we would ask because that title,
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  and and this is the thing that struck Virginia so much, is the
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  title of a Prince. There's a certain expectation
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  when you meet a Prince that that they are of this esteem, that
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  they are gentlemen. And and that specific feeling
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  for her was such a let down. It's just like, oh, a Prince
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  could do this too. And so, yes, I do think that we
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  need to go further. I think, you know, the royal
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  family needs to really go further on this and there should
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  be more repercussions for his actions.
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  There's a really ongoing debate here now around those people who
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  feel that more needs to be done. There's a discussion now about
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  whether the British Parliament could change the law so it would
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  make it easier for the King to formally remove the titles that
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  Andrew has only voluntarily agreed not to use.
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  But senior members of our government are saying this is
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  not an issue for Parliament. We would be led by the monarchy.
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  Is that disappointing to you? Yes, I mean, I think anytime you
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  you put obstacles in place that would essentially be able to
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  bring people to justice, that is absolutely unfortunate.
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  It's a it's a disjustice to the people of the UK.
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  It's a disjustice to survivors out there of Jeffrey Epstein,
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  Glen Maxwell, amongst many others.
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  So yes, I would say it's very disappointing that any form of
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  government, including the US, we have our own work to do here,
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  would put any obstacles in place to bring any of these men,
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  women, powerful figures to account.
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  It has emerged that the Metropolitan Police here are now
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  looking into these claims. I know you've heard them, that
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  Prince Andrew asked his police protection officer to try to
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  uncover information about Virginia.
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  What did you think when you heard this?
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  I think, again, it's just further vindication for
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  Virginia. Why would you need to go through
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  those links first of all, if you're not guilty?
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  That that's the one thing that like, struck me.
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  And then it also reaffirms like the difficulties that these
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  survivors were coming up against, that they're willing to
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  use their power to like, intimidate them and, and go
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  after them and, and defame them and find ways to discredit them.
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  And like, how egregious is that? Especially a Prince to do
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  something like that and abuse his power and position to get
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  essentially someone to try to discredit a child.
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  She was a child at the time, so that it wasn't so much a shock,
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  to be quite honest. I think, you know, Virginia had
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  been saying it for so long that people had tried to intimidate
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  her and try to threaten her. So it wasn't much of A shock.
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  Again, it felt like a vindication of this is exactly
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  what she's been screaming for decades, and now we're finally
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  seeing the truth surface. And it's interesting the lengths
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  that the the Prince appeared to go to managed to get her Social
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  Security number, to ask his close protection officer to
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  gather information about Virginia.
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  All of this about a young woman he would later say he had no
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  recollection of ever meeting. Yeah.
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  I mean, I would say it further vindicates her.
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  I mean, she, I remember an interview where she said, you
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  know, he's saying one thing, I'm saying this and only one of us
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  is telling the truth. And that person is me.
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  And I think that is that's a very powerful statement now
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  because his actions are speaking louder than words.
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  And she would be coming forward fully vindicated right now
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  saying, do you see? I told you the entire time and
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  now the world is starting to believe because, you know,
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  there's this slow trickle of information including, you know,
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  what you had just stated about obtaining.
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  I mean, why would you want to obtain somebody's Social
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  Security or, or, you know, information if they're, if they,
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  if in one way shape or form you weren't potentially complicit?
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  I mean, it's difficult for you, I know because in a way you're
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  fighting on 2/2 continents, aren't you?
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  You, you have your battles at home.
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  And also here in terms of we know now that the Met Police are
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  investigating this idea that he asked his personal protection
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  officer to investigate Virginia, as far as we can see.
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  Do you have confidence in the Met Police to do this properly?
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  I don't live in the UKI can't say that I know their everyday
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  workings. What I can say is that this is
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  this is a global cover up and abuse of systematic power that
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  we've seen over and over. I know that currently, right
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  now, we're extremely let down by our own government, and they
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  have the key to a lot of information.
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  What I what I feel is happening right now is so much evidence,
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  and this is just one fraction of it, but it's inescapable.
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  And the people are putting the pressure on their local
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  governments to do the right thing and further investigate.
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  So I don't know that I have full trust in government and I know
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  there are some really great police officers and detectives
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  there that want to do the right thing.
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  But I feel where our trust really lies is in the people and
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  our voice and our ability to put them in the positions to do
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  their jobs and to do the right thing and protect our
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  vulnerable. So that that's really where I
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  feel our trust lies and their actions will put the faith back.
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  People will have more faith in them if they do decide to do
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  this and really investigate. And, and just on that point of
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  investigation, I absolutely take what you're saying about
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  understanding how we operate. But just you'll know of course,
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  that Virginia did first speak to the Metropolitan Police in
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  London as far back as May 2015. They decided not to continue
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  with any investigation. They reviewed that again in
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  2019, deciding again not to investigate.
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  Another complaint comes forward in 2021.
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  They decide not to investigate. That year our program handed
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  them Virginia civil claim. They decided not to investigate.
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  Is it time for them to review those decisions, do you think?
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  100% What else does it have to take?
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  I think the cost of proof is too high for these survivors and
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  we've seen that over and over again.
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  What else will it take for you to actually stand up and do the
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  right thing? Now is the time, This is the
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  opportunity to say that we are going to make a change and all
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  of our governments that we're going to operate the way that we
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  are intended to operate and we're going to protect those
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  that deserve to be protected. And it doesn't matter who is
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  being implicated. There is no separate law for
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  those in power. And this is it's beyond time.
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  Let's do the right thing. And, and if the Metropolitan
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  Police don't investigate or, or, or review their decisions, there
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  is a police, a police watchdog here, do you think they must
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  step in and say to the Met, we're going to look at those
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  decisions you took in the light of what is coming forward now?
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  Absolutely. I think it's very similar to
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  what's happening here in the US. The Department of Justice
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  decided that there was no credible information when we
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  know that that's far from the truth.
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  And then our House of Representatives in our Senate
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  decided to take it a step further and subpoena documents.
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  And so every branch of government needs to take this
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  seriously. If one door closes and you have
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  the opportunity to reopen that door, you should take it upon
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  yourself to do that. And Sky, can I ask you,
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  Virginia's story, like the story of so many abuse victims, is
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  littered with being gas lit by individuals who don't take
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  responsibility, by the organisations that don't force
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  them to take accountability. How hard was that for Virginia
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  to go to the Met Police say here in the UK and constantly have
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  them say we're not going to investigate.
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  Do you think that did take a toll on her?
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  I do. I think she, you know, she gives
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  this such strong appearance on camera, but we got to know her
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  behind closed doors. Obviously, we're her family,
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  right? And so she would, you know, I
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  guess she just continued to read it.
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  Like, what is it going to take for people to finally believe
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  me? Like, what do I have to do to
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  show that I'm a truth teller? And by continuously being gas
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  lit by the UK government, the UK Metropolitan Police, the US
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  government here, I mean, she was incredibly hurt by the
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  sweetheart deal that Jeffrey Epstein was given by Alex
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  Acosta. I mean, it was a kick.
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  It was just a kick in the stomach to her that every single
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  time you feel like you would get to that point of justice or I'm
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  doing the right thing, somebody from the side would come in and
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  essentially dismiss her or dismiss her claims.
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  And now to what Amanda was saying too.
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  Now the the public is coming forward and saying no, there's
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  just too much substantial evidence here.
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  Every document leak, every e-mail leak, it stinks of a
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  cover up. And I think it's time that we
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  get back and use our voices for good.
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  And our government needs to remind themselves they work for
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  us. They don't work and it's not the
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  other way around. So we need to give them a stark
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  reminder that you know it's time to do the right thing.
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  And I know this is difficult, but watching her get knocked
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  back after knocked back, what do you think that did to her
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  personally? I think it's the story of a lot
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  of survivors out there that they constantly feel like they're
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  getting these wins, these little wins, and then there's just this
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  big knock from the side. I mean, we can tell you that we
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  feel it in advocacy a lot of times where we feel like.
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  You get these little wins, these little knocks, right?
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  But then like, what are we actually doing about it?
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  Like, so I think what we need to start doing and what she would
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  be requesting, what she was always her question requesting
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  was we're tired of talking about it.
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  The survivors are tired of just having to talk about it.
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  We have to take some sort of action here.
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  Actions speak a hell of a lot louder than words.
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  And so, you know, I think it took in a tremendous toll on her
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  through time. I will say during the last
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  couple weeks of her life, I was with her.
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  She was really proud. She was really proud of her
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  survivor sister. She was really proud of what she
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  was able to accomplish, accomplish with Glenn Maxwell
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  and Jeffrey Epstein. This book was really to to kind
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  of, I wouldn't say close a chapter, but reopen a chapter to
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  where we can really start asking ourselves some questions.
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  And I do think, again, it's a vindicating moment for her.
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  There's a whole different story to tell on her own personal life
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  that maybe took a larger toll on her towards the end.
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  But certainly this took a toll on her throughout the many
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  years. And I hope her kids can see
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  their mom for what she truly is, which is an international and an
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  American hero. And that pride she felt in those
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  last weeks, did you get any sense that it was in any way it
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  was outweighed by the toll that everything else had taken on
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  her? I mean, with reading this book,
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  you'll see clearly the story of her survivor, a story of a
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  victim really to begin with, that goes into a survivor, her
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  body and took a tremendous toll through the years from the
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  people that had abused her. I mean, this wasn't just like
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  this was like very heinous acts. This was very aggressive acts
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  that these men were, were doing to her.
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  I mean, it was, it was, it's, it's very raw in there when you
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  read it because it's not just, I don't know, it's, it's, it's not
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  sensational at any point. It just becomes something that
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  that you just feel tremendously hurt by.
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  And so I do think her body took and her mind took a very large
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  toll through the years, but she had a lot of personal tolls in
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  her personal life towards the end there that I think led to
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  the ultimate decision of her taking her life.
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  Just in terms of, as you say, the people coming out to show
• 22:38
  their support to say enough is enough here and to, to look for
• 22:41
  more action. Obviously the, the, the move
• 22:46
  with, with Prince Andrew and his titles is one step of, of
• 22:51
  accountability. And I know that you're you're
• 22:54
  pleased that that's happened. We've got evidence from court
• 22:56
  papers that show lawyers sent a letter to Prince Andrew asking
• 23:00
  him to Co operate. The letter was FedEx to
• 23:03
  Buckingham Palace. The Palace refused delivery.
• 23:06
  Do they owe you? Do they owe Virginia's legacy in
• 23:12
  terms of doing more now because of that?
• 23:15
  Absolutely. I think they owe answers.
• 23:19
  At the very least. I think they owe not just
• 23:22
  Virginia, but but the UK people, they owe that.
• 23:27
  These are people that they essentially look up to.
• 23:30
  They are supposed to be a represented representation of of
• 23:35
  truth and trust. And I think they owe that moment
• 23:41
  to sit down and be questions and and answer the questions that
• 23:45
  have been asked of them for decades.
• 23:48
  They owe Virginia that for sure, and they owe their people that.
• 23:53
  So would you like to see the king or the palace put pressure
• 23:56
  on Prince Andrew, who always said he would answer questions
• 23:59
  about what he knew, but he never has.
• 24:03
  So would you like to see more pressure exerted him on him to
• 24:07
  do that? Absolutely.
• 24:09
  I just don't think that this can be avoidable anymore.
• 24:12
  There's just too much coming out and I think it's beyond time.
• 24:16
  We can't continue to let this hide in the shadows and, and
• 24:20
  everyone is being put in that corner of having our own
• 24:25
  government is, is avoiding having to answer questions and
• 24:30
  people are tired of it. And so it is time.
• 24:33
  I, I would hope that he would pressure his brother to do the
• 24:37
  right thing. I think he's already putting him
• 24:40
  in a position of pressure where he's had to relinquish his
• 24:43
  titles. I think there needs to be more
• 24:46
  for sure. And can I ask, I mean, in many
• 24:49
  ways that you sort of allude to this fact that at least the
• 24:51
  Prince moving to to step down away from raw life some years
• 24:56
  ago, stopping using these titles is some accountability for
• 25:01
  Virginia. What hope of that is there for
• 25:04
  you at home? It's what we're fighting for
• 25:08
  every single day. I hope that our government
• 25:14
  remembers, like Sky said earlier, that they work for us
• 25:17
  and not the other way around. We have to look back to the
• 25:21
  foundation of our government and separation of powers.
• 25:24
  And, and we're calling on our representatives to do the right
• 25:28
  thing. You're you're an elected
• 25:30
  official. And so there is hope that they
• 25:34
  can come back to their roots and acknowledge and recognize what
• 25:37
  they swore to do. And that was to protect their
• 25:40
  people. And so we're going to keep
• 25:42
  pushing until that happens, whatever that takes, we're going
• 25:46
  to keep pushing for it because it is the right thing to do.
• 25:49
  And it's beyond time. And the US government has the
• 25:53
  power to do this. We know they do.
• 25:56
  And we're going to continue to hold them accountable.
• 26:00
  And what does accountability in the US look like?
• 26:02
  What exactly is it that you need to see?
• 26:08
  I would say for me, it would be getting these documents
• 26:11
  released. It's important to note that and
• 26:14
  I've heard the argument, while they've released 33,000
• 26:17
  documents, that's 1% of the total documentation that's been
• 26:21
  provided. I know it for a fact because my
• 26:22
  sister gave them a lot of that documentation and they still
• 26:26
  have it and to come and say, Oh, well, no, no, no, we there's
• 26:30
  nothing really to see in here. After they ran their campaign on
• 26:34
  the fact that they would release the documents is kind of a slap
• 26:37
  in the face. And So what real accountability
• 26:39
  here is first getting all all documents released, allowing the
• 26:45
  redactions of the names for people, specifically survivors,
• 26:49
  and then the unredaction of names for anybody that could be
• 26:52
  complicit. And then what we need to do from
• 26:54
  there, We got to take these in steps, right?
• 26:56
  So first step, release the documents.
• 26:58
  Second step, we need to take it up.
• 27:00
  We need to get further and fully investigate anybody that was on
• 27:04
  the flights in the logs, there is a movement of money, video
• 27:08
  evidence of you potentially being in that room.
• 27:11
  I guarantee you there's video evidence of them being people
• 27:14
  being in those rooms and we need to hold them to the fullest
• 27:18
  extent of the law. Whether that's, you know,
• 27:20
  there's a lot of there's a lot of talk around statue of
• 27:23
  limitations, what that looks like.
• 27:25
  But nobody, nobody should be above the law here in the sense
• 27:28
  that if you committed any type of heinous acts against these
• 27:33
  these girls at the time, you need to be held accountable.
• 27:36
  You should be behind bars. You should be with Ghilane
• 27:38
  Maxwell in a maximum security prison, mind you, not a minimum
• 27:42
  security prison and and held accountable.
• 27:45
  We want we want to see every single person that was complicit
• 27:48
  in this sex trafficking ring held to account.
• 27:51
  Just very briefly, when you talk about flights and flight logs,
• 27:54
  we know that flights went in and out of the UK, not just in
• 27:57
  London. Would you like to see those
• 28:00
  flights fully investigated? Yes, I think this, we've kind of
• 28:06
  alluded to this, but this is international and this is, this
• 28:08
  is not just the US, this is not just the UK.
• 28:11
  This is an international investigation that needs to take
• 28:14
  place. And if the UK say is
• 28:16
  safeguarding any type of information that could be
• 28:18
  valuable to the public, to the FBI, which I think they probably
• 28:23
  already have, then, you know, then shame, shame on our
• 28:27
  government, shame on our government for safeguarding and,
• 28:30
  and being pedo protectors. Like this is, you know, I think
• 28:34
  this has been going on for far too long.
• 28:36
  And the fact that it's taken this long to even really start
• 28:39
  this conversation, it's a bit of is an injustice to the
• 28:42
  survivors, but be very, very mindful that we will not stop
• 28:46
  until justice is served. My sister was very clear about
• 28:49
  that. That rings in our head every day
• 28:51
  as we come forward publicly. That rings in every survivor's
• 28:54
  head every day. Because again, it's and this is
• 28:57
  a common theme, but it's the right thing to do.
• 29:00
  A couple more very, very briefly, if you would.
• 29:02
  I mean, what is your message to President Trump on this?
• 29:05
  Remember that you were elected for this position, that your
• 29:11
  constituents who voted for you, your constituents who didn't
• 29:15
  vote for you, you serve every single one of them.
• 29:19
  This is not a party issue. It's not a political toy that
• 29:24
  you or your minute administration can dangle.
• 29:28
  I think we've all reached a point across every single aisle
• 29:33
  where we are asking this of you. You promised from the very
• 29:39
  beginning of your campaign and even your last presidency that
• 29:43
  you would be a president that was going to drain the the
• 29:46
  swamp, that was going to uncover corruption.
• 29:49
  This is one of the biggest cases of corruption, and we're asking
• 29:54
  you to do the right thing. Will you hold to your promise?
• 29:59
  And can I just ask, I know you said you'll keep fighting.
• 30:02
  Your sister fought for such a long time.
• 30:07
  The cost to you is already enormous in losing your sister.
• 30:13
  How do you feel about continuing that fight, potentially for
• 30:19
  years going forward? My sister fought not want to be
• 30:26
  careful, not careful. I want to be very clear here
• 30:28
  that the reason she fought is very at a very human level.
• 30:32
  It's very simple. When she held her baby girl for
• 30:34
  the first time and she knew this could never happen again to her
• 30:42
  daughter, to your daughters, to your sisters, and she knew this
• 30:48
  could never happen again. And I think we hold very true on
• 30:52
  that principle as well. I think a lot of these
• 30:54
  survivors, their daughters are reaching those ages where this
• 30:56
  happened to them. And I just, you know, this
• 31:01
  Amanda said it's the biggest international cover up in the
• 31:04
  history of the world. It's a sex trafficking ring that
• 31:08
  essentially went on for decades without any account to any of
• 31:12
  these men, really any investigation, as you've alluded
• 31:15
  to as well. And so we won't stop until
• 31:18
  justice is served because I mean, one, she protected me when
• 31:23
  I was a kid. She's protecting your daughters
• 31:26
  when she came out and her own daughter, my daughter, I, I
• 31:30
  just, I don't see, it's just such a foundation, human level
• 31:33
  is the reason that we're doing this, the reason that we're
• 31:35
  advocating. And you know, I love my sister
• 31:38
  dearly and I hope, I hope she's proud.
• 31:41
  I'm just going to say you can hear how proud you are of her
• 31:46
  she has become. She became such a public figure.
• 31:49
  How do you remember her? Privately as a family, as a
• 31:54
  sister, As a sister-in-law? I remember.
• 31:58
  Her as joy. In spite of everything that she
• 32:03
  had gone through in her life, she still had this capacity for
• 32:06
  joy and love in her life. I remember her as cheeky and
• 32:12
  funny and lighting up the room as soon as she came in and she
• 32:17
  had the ability to just, she was just amazing.
• 32:24
  There is no one like her that will never be anyone like her,
• 32:30
  and we'll just continue to keep her voice alive.
• 32:35
  Sky, would you like to add anything to that?
• 32:36
  You don't have to, but if you want to.
• 32:41
  I think Amanda said it great. I think she was just light.
• 32:44
  She was joy. She's my big sister.
• 32:46
  She, you know, we didn't sit around the family table talking
• 32:51
  about ABS seated Maxwell. We we enjoyed time with each
• 32:53
  other. We got to, you know, to to talk
• 32:58
  about our kids and talk about her kids and, you know, I want I
• 33:01
  hope the world knows like she was such a normal person.
• 33:04
  I mean, I think you're going to get that across in the book too,
• 33:07
  where she really kind of leads you through this.
• 33:09
  This is this is who she was, right?
• 33:11
  She's like she recognizes that points in the book.
• 33:14
  It's one of my favorites is where like I know this is hard.
• 33:17
  Let's take a moment to breathe. Let's let's stop for a moment.
• 33:20
  Let's go shopping, right. Like that was her.
• 33:23
  She could she always wanted to find the best in the world.
• 33:26
  I mean, even to some of her detriment, to be honest, She
• 33:29
  always wanted to see the good in people and not and not the hurt,
• 33:32
  right. She wanted to teach her daughter
• 33:33
  that there was good in this world.
• 33:35
  It wasn't all evil, even though there are evil men that do evil
• 33:38
  things to you. And so, you know, I hope people
• 33:41
  feel that from her, that like motherhood, that love, that
• 33:45
  compassion that you don't always find in somebody that has had
• 33:50
  the things done to her. That, that that happened with
• 33:53
  Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell and so many other people
• 33:56
  that are still walking free today.
• 33:58
  So she's just, she's such a beautiful human being.
• 34:01
  And I and I, again, I'm so excited the world gets an
• 34:04
  opportunity to read her book because I think they're going to
• 34:06
  see that. You clearly miss her very much.
• 34:09
  Every day. Every day, yeah.
• 34:11
  It's, it's just surreal not having her here.
• 34:18
  She should be sitting here talking to you.
• 34:22
  It's such a win for her in so many ways, but it's such a loss
• 34:26
  to us and to the world. But again, I'm glad people get a
• 34:32
  chance to read who she was. You don't always, you know, I
• 34:35
  think Amanda said it's like such a gift sometimes because it's
• 34:39
  not everyday that somebody in your life passes and you get an
• 34:43
  opportunity to really hear what they felt and, and how they felt
• 34:49
  about you. And I.
• 34:50
  And I think that comes across a lot in the book.
• 34:52
  And I felt a lot of love from that book.
• 34:57
  Sky and Amanda Roberts, thank you very much for talking to us
• 34:59
  today. Thank you.
• 35:02
  That's it for this episode of The Forecast.
• 35:04
  Until next time, goodbye.