Latest / Brands, Beats & Bytes / Album 7 Track 11 - Running Your Race w/LaDonna Gooden

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Album 7 Track 11 - Running Your Race w/LaDonna Gooden · Brands, Beats & Bytes

• LaDonna Gooden DC: [00:00:00] Brand Nerds. Brand Nerds, Brand Nerds, back at you with another podcast of Brands, Beats and Bytes. All right, Brand Nerds. I'm gonna start off doing something that the producers hate, all the producers of the podcast hate when I do this. I'm going to date the show. I'm gonna date the show, Larry, gotta do it. LT: Getting us in trouble again. DC: One more time. One more. I'm gonna get into the doghouse Brand Nerds, but this one is worth it. Today is May 7th, 2025. Yesterday was May 6th, 2025. Imagine that something very interesting happened yesterday morning at 10:00 AM. Asia Wilson's shoes. This is Asia Wilson Center for the Las Vegas ACEs, former South Carolina Gamecock. Shout Coach Staley. She had her signature shoes called the "A Ones" not to be confused with the Air Force. Ones A Ones by Nike. [00:01:00] They went on sale Larry at 10:00 AM at 10 0 5. They were sold out. Wow. All gone. No more left, right? This does not happen in the world of women's shoes, athletic shoes. This just does not happen. But it's happening now because women's sports in general, but specifically basketball is on fire. In Fuego. Why am I bringing that up? Brand Nerds? Because sports is a really big deal and people that have grown up in sports learned some things that, some of us that did not grow up in sports. I know you grew up in sports, Larry, for, uh, playing organized sports. I did not. That the rest of us do not learn. And if you were constructing the ideal executive of today, I would submit Larry that they would have the following four elements. They know something about [00:02:00] sports, they know something about marketing, they know something about tech. They know something about finance. If you have an executive that understands all of those areas, you got a special kind of a species of executive there. And then finally, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll say this. This guest that we have coming up, Brand Nerds has all of that and more. She also has the experience of being with a big company in tech, that acquired our little small company in in tech. And so I can remember some meetings that we had early on where now this is, this is before we were doing Zooms and all that kinda stuff. It was mostly like conference calls and that kind of thing. 'cause we hadn't met face to face yet, Larry. We were just hearing each other on the phone. LT: Right. DC: And I can imagine Larry that as she heard me talk because their company acquired not only our company, they acquired a big company that had already acquired our company. So we were really little, we were important and we thought we were pretty hot [00:03:00] stuff. Larry, I am sure she and others were listening to, to me on the other side side of that phone going, who the hell is this dude right here? What's, what's wrong with that character? Alright then now before I give it to you, Larry, I know I'm taking long Brand Nerds, but we have in the building today, as Charles Barkley would say, in this parlance,. an "ath-e-lete", a corporate "ath-e-lete". Who do we have with us today, LT? LT: Oh man. What a great setup, DC, we have LaDonna Gooden in the house. Welcome, LaDonna. LaDonna Gooden: Thank you. LT: LaDonna. LaDonna Gooden: Excited to be here. LT: DC does these, you know, usually just kicks it to me. But what a great preface that he's given because he is, he really did set you up, uh, where you are, four for four. So now we have to give the detail so the Brand Nerd understand that. So, okay. Brand Nerd... DC: Hey. Hey Larry, can I just say something as well? Sorry to interrupt you Flow brother. I too was wondering who was on the other side of that phone too. I was like, who is this lady right here? [00:04:00] Who is this LaDonna person? Alright, go ahead Larry. Sorry. LT: That's funny. So Brand Nerds, or as mentioned, LaDonna is someone we really think the world of and we are really looking forward to having on the podcast. LaDonna is a self-described ruckus maker. Community, community advocate who continually promotes equitable and inclusive entrepreneurial ecosystems. Let's walk you through her really successful journey and you will see why LaDonna attends Princeton University, where she's captain of the track team and that's what DC was alluding to, growing up in sports, and she earns our undergrad degree in romance languages and literature. LaDonna gets her career start at Acadian Asset Management, where at this financial services institution as an A VP, she leads marketing and sales focused on the Midwest region of an international equity investment portfolio. All right. LaDonna then decides to go back to grad school at the University of Pennsylvania where she is a Howard E Mitchell Scholar and goes on [00:05:00] to earn an MA in International Global Studies and an MBA in international finance, while also serving as marketing chair for the Whitney M Young Memorial Conference, which is a forum for prominent black business and civic leaders. While in grad school, she does an internship with the infamous Enron company performing financial analysis of a large water concession in Morocco for mergers and acquisitions team, and conducts the due diligence in French, hence the undergrad degree. After grad school, LaDonna joined Sprint, and this is what DC was alluding to, and this is where LaDonna and DC meet, as DC was talking about, when DC was the CMO of Boost Mobile, which was then owned by Sprint When that happened. LaDonna has a great seven year time at Sprint. She starts in the executive rotation program where her roles include Director of an Analytics and Customer Experience Metrics, Chief of Staff for COO, responsible for strategy development, and [00:06:00] delivery of cost efficiency, and managing technical testing of an $8 billion product launch and network upgrade. LaDonna eventually settles in as Senior Director of Strategic Alliances Managing P and L for Sprint's, mobile virtual network operator. Business inclusive of partnership management, operations, pricing, and strategy. And this includes development activity for both Virgin Mobile and the Boost Mobile brand. So you see where DC and LaDonna were, uh, interconnecting there. Okay. LaDonna then gets an excellent opportunity to become a general manager for Telephia a San Francisco based startup, which is eventually acquired by Nielsen, where they provide consulting and analytics support for wireless brands and consumer electronics companies. LaDonna and her team help inform and strengthen clients' marketing strategy effectiveness, and business operations through delivering their special sauce of data analytics, insights and recommendations. Alright, Brand Nerd, so, check out what LaDonna does after [00:07:00] more than 10 great years at phi. She leverages all her wonderful business and marketing experience to become founder of Launch KC, LaDonna and Launch KC partner with the Kaufman Foundation and Alt Cap, a nonprofit organization and they help small businesses led by mar by women and people of color through targeted marketing and operational strategies. In addition to this work, LaDonna also works with multiple startups and small businesses as a growth advisor, establishing a great reputation for turnarounds. Uh, she then serves also as economic development fellow, the city of Kansas City, where she helps develop policy supporting CP KC Stadium, which is the world's first stadium purpose built for a professional women's team. This pioneering project has helped catalyze a new movement of purpose-driven infrastructure for women's athletics. I. All of this great work leads LaDonna to be introduced to ShotTracker, where she eventually becomes the COO. This is a [00:08:00] great confluence of all that LaDonna has done, including her time as a D one track athlete. ShotTracker is a cutting edge sports technology company revolution revolutionizing the way basketball is played, coached and experienced. LaDonna may let us know, but I think they have plans to expand outside of basketball too. As the ShotTracker COO LaDonna has been instrumental in optimizing the visualization of data to make realtime analytics impactful during practices games, and increasingly as a means to engage fans. Her work champions the availability and use of a advanced analytics to support winning strategies in both women's and men's basketball at all levels, as well as improved brand recognition and enhanced storytelling for content creators. Lastly, LaDonna has been very active in the volunteer world in multiple ways, including serving as a youth track coach for Phenoms track and field. Secretary for USA Track and Field Region Nine, Vice Chair for KC Young Audiences, [00:09:00] Finance Chair for Niles, home for Children, Board Member for Cap and Gown Club of Princeton, and Chairperson of the Board for Land Bank of Kansas City. We are really looking forward to this one and know you will enjoy. Welcome to Brands, Beats and Bytes. LaDonna Gooden. LaDonna Gooden: Wow. Wow. You do your homework, Larry. Thank you so much. What a great, great welcome. Wow. I, it's like, who is that person? Thanks. I'm so excited to be here and reconnect with you both. Uh, this is, I'm looking forward to this today. LT: As are we. DC: Yeah. LaDonna. Larry does an exceptional job of this. Every time we have one of these, uh, podcasts, it's a joy for me to hear him do his thing and to watch the response of the guest hearing this about themselves. It's almost like the guests are having this out of body experience and they're listening to it as if Larry's talking [00:10:00] about someone other than them. Right. It's very funny to me. Very funny. But Larry, mad respect, brother. Mad respect. Okay, LaDonna. We're gonna go to... LT: You know, you know, D, sorry to interrupt you. I don't like that because it's all, it's all done by LaDonna, right? Like, I'm just, I'm just spitting the words. That's it. LaDonna Gooden: No, but you make 'em sound really good. So appreciate. DC: Yes, you do, brother. Yes, you do. LaDonna our, uh, section here is Get Comfy. We do this before we get into our, our questions. So, uh, Brand Nerds, uh, in 2008. In the wireless space. There were three or four big players at the time. Um, the big players were, um, Sprint, they were one of the big dogs out there. Verizon was one of the big dogs. AT&T, they were, they were big dog, but they had a brand called Cingular, spelled with a c uh, uh, Cingular. [00:11:00] Nextel was also one of the big dogs. And then you had some smaller players at the time. And believe it or not, back in 2008, T-Mobile was a small player, uh, Brand Nerds, They were not this big company that they are now. And then you had like Metro PCS and then you had these MVNOs, these little small, um. Me, uh, what, what was MVNO? The, uh, acronym for, LaDonna Gooden: uh, Virtual Network Operators. DC: Got it. Mobile. Mobile Virtual Network Operators. I got, I forgot. It's a mouthful. Thank, thank you. LaDonna. MVNO. Okay. So we were an MVNO at, uh, at Boost Mobile. Now Sprint, uh, uh, Sprint, Brand Nerds. They acquired Nextel in 2008 for $35 billion. Wow. 35. This is in 2008. 35 billion. So this is major money and they, it was marketed La Donna, remember this is. A, uh, a, a, a partnership of mutuals, that [00:12:00] kind of thing. But Sprite, I mean, not Sprite. Sprint bought, Sprint bought Nextel. So even though they marketed as these two companies, no, no, no. Sprint was buying. And so Sprint had this campus in, uh, Kansas City, and it was a sprawling campus, Larry. This thing was sprawling and, uh, and, and so all the buildings looked the same. They were maybe like three or four story buildings, brick, grass, grassy knolls between them all. Exactly. It, it, it lacked a little passion to, to me. And so we had a nickname for it, which LaDonna knows, we called it Shawshank. Okay. We called it, we called that Campus Shawshank. Now compare that to Boost Mobile. LT: That's great. DC: And I arrived, we were at 51 Discovery in Irvine, California, which was a strip mall, little strip mall, LaDonna Gooden: Yes. DC: That we moved from the strip mall to another place was Surfboards, BMX Bikes. All of this kinda stuff was going on in [00:13:00] our offices as compared to Shawshake. So now I'm arriving at a point, LaDonna, my mother, this passed. She used to say, baby, when I would drone, I'd say, she'd say, baby, are you arriving at a point? And I would say, yes, yes ma'am. I'm arriving at a point, but LaDonna, I'm arriving at a point. LaDonna Gooden: Okay. DC: This is a question about culture. Yes. You were, you were at Sprint doing these wonderful things at Sprint when Sprint was like ripping and roaring, one of the top companies in the world. You guys acquire Nextel and Boost Mobile and you get this little small Boost mobile operation that's very different culturally than Sprint. You are sitting there watching this happen, helping make it happen, that kind of thing. What was going on for you from a culture perspective? Because I just say this, uh, Brand Nerds, is that you had no reason, I didn't think, to sort of protect us, [00:14:00] help us continue to be who we were inside of this labyrinth called Sprint. What was that like for you as an executive? Both sides. LaDonna Gooden: Yeah. Oh my gosh. You're bringing back some great memories. Um, you know, so it's an interesting time. I think, um, you know, marketing, messaging, positioning, all those things really matter. Uh, you know, when you think about those consolidation to the big three. Mm-hmm. So, at the time, you know, Verizon and at and t were the kind of the two big dogs. Mm-hmm. And everybody else was chasing them and mm-hmm. You know, one of the reasons we were doing the merger was to, you know, have the scale that we talked about. Mm-hmm. Ntel had these assets, and on paper, I just remember doing, looking at the analysis just about the two major brands mm-hmm. That Sprint and Nextel were really complimentary on paper in so many ways. You have Mm. Two very different embedded [00:15:00] bases. You know, Nextel was very much, you know, kind of a working collar, you know, blue collar type of clientele, small business, a lot of construction, a lot of logistics businesses. And Sprint really had grown up, if you, do you remember the pin drop and long distance? DC: Oh yes. LaDonna Gooden: That's a great ad. You know? DC: Yes. LaDonna Gooden: Last forever, um, had really focused on, um, you know, the bi, the larger business community. And so this paper looked great. It was a merger of equals, which is something always I think to be studied. When we branded Sprint, Nextel, um, and then Sprint had Virgin Mobile in its arsenal, Nextel had Boost in its arsenal. And you know, we're gonna be a house of brands, a branded house. Um. I think you know the question long-winded way, 'cause I'm arriving at my point now too. You know, was the goal [00:16:00] was to win. I think that was really, um, what I remember most was all this was, um, at an inflection point where this, the technologies were gonna be changing. The, um, you know, the customer bases were so much larger for Verizon and AT&T that this was really a chance for both of our organizations to get together and win. And so, Boost had been this great success story coming out of Australia and coming into the United States, and so very different. Mm-hmm. And I think there was a recognition that, um, we had to do things differently. Um, and could the sprint, the master brand or the, the, the larger brand handle that? Maybe not, but you know, I just remember, uh, thinking this is something really special. The growth trajectory is great. The customers were incredibly loyal. This is something that has to be protected and right. Mm-hmm. And celebrated.[00:17:00] DC: I'm glad you did LaDonna, because none of us fully knew what was going to happen after the, the merger. We didn't know, uh, if we were gonna be subsumed right by the, uh, by the mothership and not allowed to, uh, to do what we. Uh, what we did, what we thought we did pretty well, and you and, and many others made certain that we did. And as we think about the game now, uh, Brand Nerds, T-Mobile, uh, then goes on to purchase, uh, Sprint. And Sprint had attempted to purchase T-Mobile. The FCC did not allow that to, uh, to, to happen. And so, um, uh, and so now T-Mobile is one of the big players in the, uh, in the marketplace. Just, just a fascinating story. Another quick, um, story here. Uh, back in 1997, the CMO of Sprint, at that time it was a gentleman named Tom Wegman, I think was his name. [00:18:00] Tom Wegman was one of the, um, uh, uh, Brand Week's Marketers of the year. Mm-hmm. And he is one of the folks responsible for the pin drop. You mentioned that as a campaign. It's one of the famous campaigns, uh, of, of all time. That same year, he and I were at a hotel at the Ritz Carlton in, um, in, uh, let me see. Laguna Beach. LaDonna Gooden: Yeah. DC: In, in, in Laguna Beach. Being honored as Brand Week, Brand Week's Marketers of the Year. I was there for Sprite, he was there for Sprint. I met that dude then having no idea. Sometime later I'd be in his business. LaDonna Gooden: Shows you how things come around. Definitely. DC: Yep. It does. Larry, anything for you before we get to uh, five questions, brother? LT: No, go ahead. I, I enjoyed listening to that. DC: Alright, here we go. Five questions. LaDonna. LaDonna Gooden: Okay. DC: Larry and I go back and forth until we arrive at five. Alright. Uh, I'm, I'm, I'm just curious, Larry, as to what her [00:19:00] answer's gonna be on, on this one, but, okay. Here we go. LaDonna, take yourself back. Okay. First branding experience, the first one for you where you were like, oh wow. Like this, this, I love this brand. I, I, I got to have this brand. I've got to spend time with this brand. In fact, I'm so into this brand. It kind of feels like a first love the experience of it. What, what was that brand for you? LaDonna Gooden: Oh my gosh. Well, the way you ask it is, feels like a setup for, uh, the answer I'm about to give. Uh, you know, the, um, the first brand that I really, um, just could not get out of my mind and has really been a motivation my entire life, quite frankly mm-hmm. Was the Olympics, and so Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. The Olympic brand, uh, you know, there are so many moments. Um, [00:20:00] you know, the, the. The boycott in eighties was nationalism, it was Cold War, it was US DC: Mm-hmm. LaDonna Gooden: Versus Russia. DC: Mm-hmm. LaDonna Gooden: It was Debbie Thomas versus Katerina Vit. DC: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. LaDonna Gooden: I mean, the characters in the stories, it was Dan versus Dan, you know, Carl LT: Reebok campaign. LaDonna Gooden: Yeah. I mean, there are so many, it, it, it has been, um, just one of those brands, the colors, the rings, you know, every time I see that, it, it talks the potential of, I. Uh, human, uh, potential. It talks about excellence. Um mm-hmm. It really talks about cross boundary. Yeah. Cross border. You know, I think sports has, has always had that unifying potential, um, in so many ways. And you think about, you know, young children in, um, the Middle East playing soccer together, or football as they call it. Um, it is something that [00:21:00] has consumed me, you know, from a personal goal perspective, but also mm-hmm. You know, a brand that I, I watch closely and, you know, and, and protective us. We think about what's, what's an amateur athlete, what's a professional athlete? What mm-hmm. What does the Olympics. How has it evolved? Right. I think as brands, they have to continue to grow and adapt and, and, you know, be relevant, uh, to the communities and the time that they're in. So that's the, the, the long-winded answer to your question. DC: Hmm. Well, I love this. That's good, Larry. LT: So, LaDonna, it's really interesting, I think, can you, can you also maybe talk about how it personal for you being someone who is a division one track athlete, like was, was the Olympics for folks in track and field? Like that's the ultimate, is that part of where you're, why this is so, uh, connective for you? LaDonna Gooden: Sure. I mean, it's, it [00:22:00] is an interesting time now, right? You have the launch of Grand Slam Track. You know, when I ran track, um, you know, there, that was how you showcased, LT: right? LaDonna Gooden: Track athletes. There was really no other time, right? Mm-hmm. That garnered, you know, television support. Uh, and so every four years you would rally around and, and see who, um, who was the, you know, winner who, who were the ones that were in the spotlight. Um, you know, and it was a long time to wait. So, you know, track athletes I think were real, uh, real, real dedicated. 'cause we, at that point, we had to wait a really long time to hear the stories. And so it's been something that has inspired me, right? You know, the dedication to someone to be there, you know, four years later that's, uh, you know, a work ethic and a discipline that, uh. Always meant something to me. That's what the Olympics really meant. Um, you know, getting to the highest [00:23:00] level, staying there and, um, you know, continuing to grow. Uh, and, you know, raise the bar. LT: I, I asked you that question for reason Lana. Um, okay. Because, uh, want the Brand Nerds to understand track and swimming, I think are in the same boat as it relates to this. Like for the Olympics, those two sports become what you think when you think Olympics. Those two sports really mm-hmm. Come to the forefront. Right. And you better be on point for those that week because Brand Nerds the swimming's first week of the Olympics in the summer and track is second. And that's done on purpose because they're both such a high profile events that they don't, I think there might be one day where they overlap, you know, where the swimming finals and then they have early track, um, you know, uh. Um, things going on. But I was involved, uh, my Powerade days, we [00:24:00] started something called the Powerade Athletic Club. LaDonna. LaDonna Gooden: Okay. And LT: he came with Nike to come and we won up and coming athletes and, um, Maurice Green ended up being a gold, winning a gold medal. He was on our, on on our team. And I got to see the track world up and close and I just, I, DC's heard me talk about it. The track and field folks are just amazing. You synopsize track and field people to me, just like who are really all around smart go getting people and you better be on point for that week. Like you think about Mary Decker Slaney way back in the, in the 84 Olympics. She was the, she was the, you know, favorite for her races. I think she was the 800 and 1500 and she got tripped. And it was at the time was a huge deal and she didn't win a medal and that was it. Yeah. Like you, it's so unforgiving. And so I just admire folks who are track athletes because [00:25:00] you, you go from being nondescript to then one week every four years, it's the top thing that the whole world is looking at you. It is like feast or famine and it, and it's, and and I, that's why I was asking that question because that becomes the ultimate for track folks. LaDonna Gooden: It is. It's a defining moment. Uh, there's a lot of pressure with that. Yeah. LT: And that's right. LaDonna Gooden: Ola Bud. Uh, incident. LT: Ola Bud. Right. Trip. Mary Delany. Yep. DC: Mm. I'll I'll say this and then we'll move to the next question. So, brand nerds. Uh, in the world of sports as well as the corporate world, you will hear many talk about talent. So in, in sports. Folks may talk about speed or they may talk about athleticism or dexterity. Um, the same can be said on the corporate side. They were, oh man, this, this person, their ability to analyze data [00:26:00] quickly or they, they're just so talented or their, their strategic abilities or their leadership abilities. There's one thing about track athletes that I think is a little different. It supersedes these other athletic talents and it's about the fact that a track athlete, when they train, it's grueling. Mm-hmm. It's not sexy, just grueling. Uh, and so, uh, there's a talent Brand Nerds to just working hard. Yep. And what I know about LaDonna is like, don't let the smooth taste fully fooly. Okay. All right. Lana LaDonna will grind. Yeah. And, and I think part of that comes Madonna, from your track background, is that maybe there might be someone who might know something you don't know. Maybe there might be someone who might make a little fancy political move in the corporate world and you're like, Ooh, that's a new one. But what they're not gonna [00:27:00] do is outwork you that that's what's not gonna happen, LaDonna, right? So remember that brand nerds. All right, Larry, let's hit the second question, brother. LT: Let's do it. Okay. So LaDonna. Yeah. Uh, who has had or is having the most influence on your career? LaDonna Gooden: Wow. Uh, you know, as long as I've been working at, there's so many people and I'm always so grateful that people that have like poured into me or been able to give me advice, um, you know, grateful for those leaders that mentioned my name when I wasn't in the room. You know, you always gotta appreciate that, um, lift you up. People that have been willing to rehire me. I think just in terms of, uh. A pivotal moment in my career. I'm going to talk about the COO at, at Sprint that, um, DC was referencing during the time of the merger, just because that was such, um, I, I'd say so many lessons from a business perspective learned. But, um, you know, Lin Lauer, you know, rest in peace, it was just an incredible mentor mm-hmm. [00:28:00] To me. Um, he really, uh, poured into me, um, at a time when, uh, I was his Chief of Staff. It was the lead team at Sprint was all included, all men. Mm-hmm. Uh, so I was the youngest person in the room. I was the only woman in the room, and I was only the Black person in the room as well. And so, um, he did a couple of things there. He really, um, took the time to get to know me, um, and really. Became an advocate for diversity at, in a time when it wasn't popular. And so, um, we would have really big conversations about how I would try to show up, emulating his practices, and it didn't work for me. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, the, the, the message wasn't received in the same way, even though I was carrying his water or, you know, working on an initiative that he had [00:29:00] given to me. So that was one, um, area. Another, as a leader, he was great. Uh, I don't think anyone would ever accuse him of being a soft and fuzzy guy. I think, do you see I say that. Um, but he, no, no, not at all. DC: Not at all. LaDonna Gooden: But he was great with feedback if you were ready to receive it. I mean, so. I just remember him bringing me into his office one day and playing a, a voicemail message I had left for him and to, uh, to give me feedback about the voicemail message, which was, Hey, I know you left that sent me at 11 o'clock at night. You were tired. I know you had left the office after everyone else. And I want you to know, um, you know, your energy matters, right? Mm. So deliver the message. Um, and if instead of giving me three messages, give me one and get, and deliver it three times, you know, break it up and, you know, so, but it was the care and time that the COO of a 27 billion [00:30:00] company, dollar company at the time, you know? Hmm. Took the time to actually give specific examples. I think as athletes, you know, like that in the moment, feedback is always so great and that has really shaped the way I talk and, and do things. And you know, he was also really, uh, a big family man, or talked about family. So, you know, we get alignment up front. This was someone that never called me on the weekend. Um, you know, we were doing, I was working all crazy hours. Crazy hours, as you can imagine, during a merger. DC: Oh yeah. LaDonna Gooden: And, you know, we would talk on a Friday and the staff meeting was 7:00 AM on Monday now. He knew that I was up at four and I was going to, I, 'cause I had a young child at the time, and that time with my son was really important because I was missing all those days, evenings, Monday through Friday. And I really wanted to spend the weekend. That wasn't a problem for him, you know? So, you know. [00:31:00] He knew I was at four, I was ready to go at six 30 and at seven the meeting would start. We were, you know, and the week would start. And so I think the alignment and the trust and, you know, just the respect for boundaries was something that, um, really I take away, uh, from him and his leadership that I try to emulate, you know, to this day. Like I tell people and they go on vacation and just check in before you check out. I'm not gonna try. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna try to respect your, um, that, that boundary and if you've got something going on or something should happen and we just need to, it, it'll be an emergency. If I reach out to you on you're vacation, I'm not gonna do it as a matter of course, so. LT: I love that D. Anything to add? DC: Well, I, I can definitely attest to what LaDonna said. Uh, there, there was no warm and fuzziness coming from, uh, from Lamb. There was, you, you, you weren't, you weren't getting that. LaDonna Gooden: No. DC: Uh, but [00:32:00] I do have a question for you, uh, LaDonna. 'cause you mentioned something that caught my attention. You said when you would try to show up and emulate him. LaDonna Gooden: Yes. DC: The message didn't land in the same, uh, way as it did with him. LaDonna Gooden: Yeah. DC: When did you recognize that and what did you do about it? LaDonna Gooden: Um, so that's, there's so many instances, um, you know, as COO, you know, you touch everything. And so I was touching finance. A lot of what I did was, um, create the corporate communication or write his speeches for Wall Street and in our investor community. So I would have to get messaging from all the department heads, head of marketing, head of sales, and yeah. Is this. Is the information real? Is it accurate? Mm. You know, and so I am challenging or perceived to be challenging people that are much more [00:33:00] senior, much more experienced. Mm-hmm. Because at the end of the day, I could not give him unvetted, you know, information. Right. Because once it was out there, it was, you know, it, it really set the tone. Um, and so I, I remember talking to our head of finance at, at one point and just trying to get an understanding of some of the financial information. Uh, and I, I think I was perceived as, you know, having, um, you know, that's where I, Glen could had this ability to look at numbers and know they were wrong. And DC: Mm. LaDonna Gooden: You know, he taught me some tricks and I knew was looking at some numbers and I knew they were wrong. And, uh, you know, I, I said, I don't think this is correct. And, uh, that quickly turned into. Kind of a verbally abusive, uh, kinda situation. DC: Mm-hmm. LaDonna Gooden: Uh, you know, one that really shook me at my core at the time, and, and, you know, and so I really had to sit back and think, [00:34:00] um, you know, I, I shared that experience with him, not for him to take action, but more. DC: Yep, yep. LaDonna Gooden: This is something I'm gonna have to do, you know, so a lot of what I started doing was the meeting before the meeting, right? So this is what I'm gonna be asking, like, setting up the expectations. This is gonna be the standard. There can't be any mistakes. So if I come back for mistakes or believe that I want you to check on something, it's because, you know, we, we had a double and triple check everything. And so, you know, creating a standard, you know, creating the expectation and setting a standard that, you know, two people are gonna have to vet the numbers before it gets to the CEO at a minimum, right? Mm-hmm. So, DC: mm-hmm. LaDonna Gooden: Um, you know, those were some of the things. Um, it probably wasn't then, it was much later, but it was something that continued to grow is I had to show up as myself and I had mm-hmm. Get comfortable with that. Uh, I think were many, you know, early times in my career, like I said, I was kind of the only multiple, only [00:35:00] in the room. Yeah. And so I was working really hard to fit in and make people comfortable. And in that I was making myself uncomfortable and dysregulated. So I really needed to find, and that's been, you know, an evolution over time. LT: Well, that's a tough thing to balance. It really is. DC: Oh, uh, Larry, uh, I, I just wanna share this, uh, context matters Brand Nerds. So we're talking, 2008 is when, uh, sprint acquired Nextel. And I said it was $35 billion. Now $35 billion was a lot then. It's a lot now. So we're, we're, we're talking 17 years ago, uh, roughly. And, um, that's a lot of money. To put it in context, the largest acquisition, some of them of that year, uh, Philip Morris, [00:36:00] they said this, the international side of Philip Morris said, listen, we're, we're gonna buy all our shares up and we're gonna be this company so that we don't have to worry about anybody trying to take us over. So we're gonna just handle it ourselves by wearing on shares. $113 billion. InBev bought Anheuser-Busch, $60 billion. Bank of America acquired Merrill Lynch. $48.8 billion. So we're talking the elite of the elite, the biggest of the biggest corporate acquisitions of that year. And in the history of business, LaDonna was in the room helping to make an orchestrate that that's a lot as the youngest person, the only woman, and the only, uh, and the only Black person like this, this is, this is high stuff, brand nerds. Very, very intense. [00:37:00] Very intense. And by the way, I can assure you just to understanding the sprint culture as I knew it, there was no handholding. No, yeah. There was no, there was no handholding for, for LaDonna. And then, and then I, I'll say this, this, this will be the last thing I'll say on it, is that for Glen to play the voicemail for you? LaDonna Gooden: Yes. DC: Then talk to you about that. Make one point, not three. There are a couple things. The first one is that LaDonna, if he thought you weren't open to it, he never plays that. Right? Right. Yeah. He, he, he would never, he would just go, uh, and you probably would not have been chief of of staff for very long. Right? And so it's important for people to understand LaDonna, and I've known this about you for decades now, is that as good as you are, you are always open to any feedback that will help you get better. In fact, I've seen you in meetings and situations where the way [00:38:00] something is coming at you ain't all that nice. And you will find a way to parse what's good in it and then you'll deal with the delivery and that kind of thing. So, very important skill, very important skill. LaDonna Gooden: Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. Yeah. It's, um, you know, something you have to do, right? You have to be able to, uh, you know, address the, the feedback. I think that's the athlete in me too, right? Ah, that's right. You, it's, you want, if you want this goal, you wanna achieve this. Like we, they're hard truths that have to be delivered, so, DC: Yeah. LT: Yeah. No, that's, that, that's right. That's the athlete. And how do you get better too? Yeah, yeah. Having that mentality of how, how do I get better? Yeah. Which is, which is really cool. Dee, I think, uh, we're ready to go to the next question. DC: Let's do it. Okay. Uh, LaDonna you, you've, you've probably had different types of competitive jewelry draped around [00:39:00] your neck at different times. Uh, you, you are, you are an Ivy Leaguer, and by the way, the conference, the, uh, the conference that you, marketing conference that you chaired. At, uh, at, uh, at Penn Warden is one of the renowned conferences in the world, not just for black folks, but for all folks. Some of the best leaders, uh, in the world have come through that conference. They've spoken at that conference. They're billionaires that have been at that conference. And to chair, like, to chair that is like the, uh, in, in the business in, in the MBA world to, to chair that conference is like the equivalent I would think of being the head of like the, the Harvard Review, if you're in law, uh, in, in the Ivy League. So ev everyone, especially all Black folks, we all knew about that conference. I don't care where we went to business school. We all knew about that conference. All right, so you've had many successes, LaDonna, but this question has nothing to do with any of those. Okay. Not at [00:40:00] all. I don't want to hear about any successes in this question. What we wanna hear about in this question is. Your largest F up. I'm talking about the danky one that you made, LaDonna. Not, not, oh, well, you know, my boss did this or somebody gave me the wrong data. No, no. You made the era and it was a big 'em. It was a big 'em. And most importantly, what you learned from it. LaDonna Gooden: Sure. Okay. Well, I mean, if you're not messing up, you're not trying hard. Right? Yeah. I think that's the big thing. Yeah. Uh, there are many, um, I thought of, um, I think the, one of the things that comes to mind is early on in my career, I was given an opportunity, uh, to go to Japan to court some potential partners for business. Uh, so really to present some co-branding opportunities, joint venture opportunities. And so how, um, they might work with, uh, the [00:41:00] corporation I was working with at the time. And so it was initially supposed to be me and a senior executive, and ultimately the senior executive backed out. And I, I, you know, I have, I was having my moment, here I am, big shot. I'm going to Japan, I'm, mm-hmm. And most of the meetings were through an interpreter. Um, you know, so, um, you know, we had a present presentation set up for all 'em, uh, that I worked on, the initial one, and then it was replicated. So each one was supposed to be, um, you know, customized to the prospective partner. And I get into this one meeting, uh, with Fujitsu, I think that's fair to say. And DC: mm-hmm. LaDonna Gooden: I'm presenting it. I'm seeing faces and I'm thinking. Just keep going, you know? Don't you know, don't get, don't be nervous. Keep going. Uh, I was presenting the wrong [00:42:00] information to Fujitsu. I was presenting another company's debt to Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. So, oh, it only because, and people were polite and people were willing to let me step and stay all in it. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Door, right. And then, you know, finally, you know, the interpreter said, are, are you talking about Fujitsu? And I looked, and it's not, oh my goodness. I mean, this is probably 20 minutes into a 60 minute presentation. Oh. You know, so you do, you know, you do, you do your best to rally in that circumstance. 'cause I actually. The one thing I had done, I had done the homework, so I knew what the material is, so I stopped talking off the slides. Right. So that was like, because we had to, 'cause we had to take a, LT: Yeah, okay. Yeah. Took the slides away. Right. LaDonna Gooden: You put that way I take slides away. Right. Uh, and that was challenging, right? Because, um, it was visual because it was still, we were talking about cross-cultural, so I'm still [00:43:00] talking to a Japanese audience, so something to look at. Um, you know, but I quickly ex, you know, tried to explain what the difference was. Um, and then I, you know, selected a few slides to go for. But, you know, in retrospect, I mean, it, there was just error upon error there. And, you know, I'm a big believer in, you know, learn the lesson, don't repeat the lesson, so, mm-hmm. It was clear, you know, so details matter, uh, review everything, you know. So that was, um, something early on I had trust and I hadn't verified. And I think that was the mistake. You can do that. With a team that that's established. But I think this was a relationship that was new, um, and I needed to trust and verify and really go through. I think the second piece was just controlling the narrative on my own. I had really acquiesced to a senior leader who was going to do the presentation and then, you know, backed out. And I think, [00:44:00] um, in retrospect, things I would do differently is really like work to incorporate my own voice into that rather than, again, showing up as someone else, uh, to tell the story the way they would. Um, you know, and then I think the biggest piece, and this was probably one that I think I really try to take pride in, is we've all been in those rooms where someone just takes up all the oxygen, they're just talking and talking. DC: Mm-hmm. LaDonna Gooden: And they're not listening. And I think being a good executive, a good marketer, good salesperson, you. You gotta listen. And I was seeing the visual clues. I did, you know, uh, pick up on that, but I didn't pause. Right. And that, that check in and the alignment. Are we good? DC: Mm-hmm. LaDonna Gooden: Can I continue, have the permission to continue? Do you understand? Do you have a different view? Like, what [00:45:00] issues do we wanna try to address upfront? Mm-hmm. I think those were kind of the big takeaways because that was, uh, you know, just, just a tough, tough meeting. Mm-hmm. LT: This is a great one, right? This is a great one. DC: This is, this is, this is phenomenal. Go ahead. Let, this is phenomen. LT: So LaDonna phenomen a phenomenal f up. You've, you've, um, what's really cool is you immediately went to like what you learned from it, and I'm, I'm guessing you've never even come close to presenting the wrong material in, in, in a meeting because, you know, that's just one small thing. So what was the, what was the outcome once you did flip the switch and, you know, you realized what was happening and you, you took the slides down and you went, you know, were, was it one of those that, oh, the relationship or potential relationship with these folks is, is over or were they sympathetic in any way? Were, were you able to salvage it? LaDonna Gooden: [00:46:00] Yeah. Um, we didn't end up doing a partnership, but I don't think it was because of that meeting. I, we actually had multiple meetings and ultimately the bus, it was a business decision. But I think, um, like people are human and I think the real piece of that. That I think resonated and allowed people to stay engaged and continue to ask questions, which is what I would say is a successful outcome after all that, um, you know, was I owned the mistake, right? I mean right. I, I, look, I've, I've, this is, you know, the incorrect information and I apologize and here's what you know we're gonna do. And, you know, so I think, you know, owning, taking ownership of when you make the errors is super important. DC: Mm-hmm. LaDonna Gooden: Um, and allow, you know, them to continue to stay engaged. And, you know, I still had many one-on-ones after the fact. And so, um, you [00:47:00] know, getting the ba the correct information to them as quickly as possible after so they could review it as well. And then setting up another interaction. You know, obviously not in person at that point, but, um, you know, really, you know, taking the pains and time to, uh, have some, you know, follow up conversations. LT: Oh, I love this. D what are you thinking? DC: Um, I'm thinking that this is one of the most raw and vulnerable examples that we have ever heard on our podcast. LT: Yes. DC: And for that LaDonna, we are incredibly grateful. Thank you. LT: Yes. DC: Uh, thank you for that. Yeah. That was, LaDonna Gooden: It was tough. DC: Yeah. Uh, LaDonna, I'm, I'm reminded of a story, um, that I experienced when I was at the Coca-Cola company. Mm-hmm. So sometimes people that, um, had relationships with the company, celebrities, they would come in and visit with [00:48:00] senior management. LT: I know where this going. DC: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And on, on this particular occasion, uh, we had famed NASCAR driver, Tony Stewart. LaDonna Gooden: Okay. DC: He was addressing our, um, our leadership team. And, um, I asked him a question. I said, Hey, um, Tony. When you are in the final few laps of a race and you are leading and there is someone like barreling down on the back of your car, like bumping your behind, what's going through your mind? And he, he paused, he looked, uh, I actually, I said, what's the first thing you do? I'm sorry. I said, what's the first thing you do? He paused, he looked LaDonna, and he said, the first thing I do is I slow down. I slow down. Now they're going one 90, you know, [00:49:00] 180, maybe 200. And I'm like, slow down. So he continues LaDonna, he says, yes. I slow down to assess the situation because even though the car may be going really fast, and I'm paraphrasing here. My mind has to slow down. Yeah. So that I can determine what I'm going to do about this situation that's happening right behind me when I've got a few more, uh, laps to go. I thought that to be a, a have a level of irony. LT: Yeah. DC: That was difficult to conceive. And when I think about your example, LaDonna, as you are, you're talking and you're seeing these blank stair faces, it could have been because of, you could have thought, well, I ha I'm having an interpreter, so I don't know how it's landing through the interpreter. It could be, you could have thought this could be cultural. They just kind of sit and wait. It, it could have been a whole number of [00:50:00] things. LaDonna Gooden: Right. DC: But you were moving so fast, LaDonna, right. That you hadn't slowed down enough to assess, okay, what, what's happening here? So for you to own that. To also have this Russian trust but verify thing going on. This is gold. It's, yeah, this is gold. 'cause I've done that countless times. LT: We all have. DC: Countless times. So thank you so much for, for sharing that. Uh, LaDonna, thank you. Thank you very much. LaDonna Gooden: I love that you talked about the NASCAR driver. 'cause it made me think of the float in when you're running, you know, you, the times you run the best, the fastest are often when you're the most relaxed. And in your mind the race is proceeding really slowly. Um, you know, so it just, uh, you know, you're really good at that DC always bringing, bringing things to something [00:51:00] that really crystallizes the point. DC: Thank you. Thank you. Alright, Larry, next question. LT: Yeah, the next question. I'm glad you brought that running thing up too. DC: I am too. I like that a lot. LT: I love that because it, it's, it's, we, we've said this a lot. Slow down to speed up. DC: Yes. LT: And yes. That's why DC's example of Tony Stewart, like you think, how could he slow? But, and and Brand Nerds just to be clear, he's not going slow. He's not like going slower. DC: No. LT: He's in his mind saying, okay, let's assess the situation. DC: That's right. LT: Talking slower, right? DC: Yes. LT: Slow down. So, DC: and be bre breathing slower, right? Yeah. LT: Right. Exactly. Alright, LaDonna, next question. Regarding technology and marketing. Oh, this is such a great one for you. Okay. With all that you've done, can you tell us where you think marketers should lean in or best leverage tech? Or you could go to areas that they should be leery or simply [00:52:00] avoid. LaDonna Gooden: Wow. Um, this is a great question. I don't, you know, uh, I may sound like I'm on the bandwagon for, you know, Ai, uh, generative Ai. Um, we use it a lot. I think it's the buzzword of 24 20. LT: It's okay. Yeah. LaDonna Gooden: Um, you know, but I think we're at an inflection point in terms of, um, you either embrace it or mm-hmm. Or, or not. And so, uh, it's been really interesting, um, and we've tried to use it organizationally to try to create different types of content with aggregating lots of data faster, right? So people can make better decision maker, make better decisions from a performance. But it also had the added benefit of being able to produce more content more quickly. And, uh, I think DC mentioned, I'm a no one's gonna outwork me. So I'm a big [00:53:00] research nerd. I, I research everything. You know, that's my, that's my jam. Um, that's my happy place. Um, you know, because I always felt like I always had to be over prepared. And, um, when I think about some of the things, uh, that allows you to do now from a storytelling perspective is this notion of more personalization. Um, we, we talked about visualization as well, so that's been something that we've been leveraging, trying to leverage because people are visual animals. So how do we aggregate, sift through so much data and then put forth a visual? Uh, and so for efficiency and for efficacy, being able to sort through a lot of information quickly allows you to get to the value added pieces. Mm-hmm. I think like visualization. Like personalization and then this notion that you can monitor, uh, sentiment, right? So, uh, we used to [00:54:00] do in Sprint, you know, people would call into the IVR and, you know, get lost in there and like, what is happening, you know, what's their sentiment, their likelihood to churn, those types of things. I think that's mm-hmm. That's a common business thing. So the ability to do predictive modeling and that, you know, that's for business and it applies to sport as well. So that's the, the great benefit. It goes, it goes, it applies equally well for in, uh, both circumstances, so. LT: Right. No, I'm, I'm glad you hit that because we talked about it a lot in the context that you introduced it, LaDonna that, you know, AI is something that you gotta, you know, take and either fully just dive in. Or if you're going to be scared of it and be fearful of it, good luck to you. That's our view. Right. Um, and you know, we were at a conference at Georgia Tech recently. We've mentioned it a few times on the podcast, and you know, we were actually asked the question, uh, well, you [00:55:00] know, what would you tell undergrad marketing majors and, you know, uh, MBAs who are, you know, with marketing, uh, majors, what should they do as it relates to Ai? Because they're worried that AI's going to take their job. And our advice is that you should lean in all the way you should know Ai, the better than anybody else, because let's face it, young people can dive into technology and really, um, immerse themselves in ways that us older folks don't know as much. And then, then you become the expert. And so that's what you're saying. Hmm. You've gotta dive in and really do everything you can to leverage it in the best way possible. And it sounds like you're doing that at ShotTracker. LaDonna Gooden: Yeah, at ShotTracker. Uh, and then personally, I think the thing, what you just struck, uh, I think just building on that, um, there's a neuroscience right to writing. So I, I think about this. My daughter's graduating from high school now, [00:56:00] and, you know, they didn't learn cursive and, but there is a neuroscience to the learning process of actually doing with your hands. And so I think the, you know, cautionary tale, right? The thing that, uh, I think as leaders we're always having to learn. And so, uh, my mind immediately goes to math, right? You start out, you write the problem with pencil, then you do it with, uh, a calculator, and then you do it in Excel. If you start out in Excel or chat, you, you'd like never understand the process. So I think, DC: yeah, LaDonna Gooden: the, the other end of learn it well, but also don't. Yeah. Um, avoid the learning process. You've gotta like lean into the learning as well. Learn how AI works, how you would solve this problem without it. I think those are requirements to really navigate successfully in this space. LT: Makes a lot of sense. D, anything to add or you wanna hit the next question?[00:57:00] DC: Next question. LaDonna Gooden? LaDonna Gooden: Yes, sir. DC: What are you most proud of? LaDonna Gooden: Oh, great question. Um, you know, you know, I try to be a, you know, a good parent, good mother, show up for my kids, show up for my community. Um, LT: LaDonna, I have to interrupt you. Please shout out your kids. LaDonna Gooden: Sure. Uh, I, uh, two, um, Graham and Camille, they are amazing, um, artists and just kind compassionate human beings, and I love that about them. Um, you know, I've mentioned I've been a coach and so I've been a community leader. So I think the project that I've worked on that really tries to culminate all of these things, you know, from a professional perspective is, you know, my work in the mayor's office when, you know, I was brought in to really focus on equitable economic development and, and [00:58:00] reconnected with the longs who wanted to bring a women's soccer team to Kansas City and wanted to have a stadium purpose-built for women's, uh, sports in particular. And so I think of that in terms of the economic power of women that women build communities. And you know, one of the things that I worked in helping formulate a strategy for the mayor's office was really taking to account. Transportation, how can we make it accessible to all parts of the city and, and girls of different backgrounds? Um, the location can, how can, um, they use the, um, commun create community benefits where you think a lot of sports stadiums in general, like it isn't always, you know, it seems sometimes that it can be one sided. And so that's what people kind of remember. So how can we [00:59:00] make it from a job creation? So there was intentional use of women vendors for the construction and architecture of the project. Um, it was located in a part of the city that is accessible to the Northland Southland. So if you know. Kansas City, like many urban centers, you know, their racial and economic divides, and so this is a, you know, a natural meeting place. Um, you know, so thinking about that, um, and then really thinking about Kansas City as the epicenter of women's sports. So we had the largest turnout for rugby here a couple of days ago. Um, there's so much excitement around that. Um, you know, and so that really just takes into account all the values that I, you know, I've had and tried to display over the last, uh, you know, over the course of my career. Hmm. LT: That's a lot to be proud of. That's super cool. Mm-hmm. That's, that's, that's dope. And what I love about that is it sort [01:00:00] of brings all the parts of you into a place that mm-hmm. Right? That, that you can then take everything that you are about and raise up and that's a beautiful thing. LaDonna Gooden: Yeah. That's the goal. Uh, yeah. I really, yes. Thank you. LT: Anything to add, D?. DC: None for me. Well done. LT: All right. We're LaDonna. We are onto our next segment. What's popping? What's popping, D?? DC: What's popping? LT: La LaDonna. This is our chance to shout out. Shout down to simply air something happening in around marketing today that we think is good fodder for discussion. And I think the biggest problem that you have, LaDonna, is you had about five things. So hopefully you, uh, you have one that comes to the forefront and, uh, this is on you. We'd love to hear what you have to say and let's talk about it. LaDonna Gooden: Sure. Um, well, I've been so excited. Uh, last year was a huge sports [01:01:00] year, the Olympics, and really just the rise of the WNBA Mm-hmm. And the fastest growing brand, uh, last year. So much energy around, uh, women's sports. Um, the investment in new purpose-built stadiums for women. Um, you know, but for me, this is kind of a time of reckoning. I was thinking my time at Nielsen. So a lot of media and advertising research like women, um, make the financial decisions. And they are the ones that, um, have a huge, have a huge, uh, emphasis on the outcomes for, for sports. And so I'm super excited that it's being embraced not only by women, but uh, men, I think 25 and younger, if I recall the research correctly. Uh. Yeah. Are watching men, women's sports and men's sports in equal measure. So the MA oh wow is, uh, wow. Is having competition from the [01:02:00] WNBA, uh, for some of those younger generations. LT: That's, that's awesome. That's super cool. Look, we've, we've talked about this, uh, a few times on the podcast and we can't talk about it enough, and it's one of those things that in 2024, it seemed like it, it happened out of nowhere. But if you really look underneath, right, this has been something that's been cooking for a while and it just sort of culminated in a lot of great things happening. And so the, that stat that you just brought out, which again goes to your Nielsen background, I had never heard that before. And that is, that's great. That's crazy that you know, that younger, uh, that younger men are actually watching women's and men's sports in equal ways. That's really cool. LaDonna Gooden: Yeah, I think it's an inflection point. I think, uh. You know, I've watched players for a long time. Um, you know, they're, I think last year, you know, you got, you had a story. I think ultimately [01:03:00] marketing and a lot of what drives brand growth are stories. LT: Yep. DC: And so, you know, if you paid attention to college basketball for the prior two years in Iowa versus LT: Yes. LaDonna Gooden: Uh, South Carolina, and then ultimately DC: Oh yeah. LaDonna Gooden: LSU, you know, there was a whole narrative that was going on there. Um, you know, um, that has, that often plays out. It, you know, it reminds me a lot of, uh, the Bird and Magic in, in DC: Yes. LaDonna Gooden: You know, so it's the story that caught. And then you, you have people that weren't necessarily basketball fans recognizing the names of the individuals. So I think that's a. Just an incredible testament to like, finding the story that can really capture people's imagination. 'cause ultimately that's what they're connecting to is, you know, some level of humanity, some, you know, personal experience. LT: Well, you just nailed something [01:04:00] really, the way this has taken place. Caitlyn Clark, people got to know her, right? Yes. You know, um, the, the folks, the, the great players at LSU people got to know them over time. And so where is, you know, take men's, um, you know, there's a certain player from D from that school in Durham. I'm a UNC guy, so I can't say okay, the Cooper flag, but now he's. He's one and done, he's gone. And so there's not the same level of getting to know folks and that's just the way it is. Like, you know, that's just what's, what's really transpired. But that's really helped women's, women's, uh, college basketball for sure. And I dare I say it's probably helping, uh, in softball and in volleyball and in other places too. 'Cause you get to, you get to know people and you, you get to see the, the arc of their stories happen. LaDonna Gooden: Yeah, absolutely. I think it is interesting with women, you mentioned Cooper Flag and one and done that also. The [01:05:00] rules are different for right. Men and women. So the, the women stay in college so you have a chance to get to know and connect them. I think, I think what I'm hearing generally is people are. Don't invest in the men's players quite the same way this year because you know, you don't have the time to get to know who they are, you know, so, you know, Angel Reese is going to tell you you're too little, and DC: Yes. LaDonna Gooden: You're gonna be brash and unapologetic about who she is as a player. Caitlyn Clark's gonna do the logo three. And so that's also what's making women much better for NIL in some ways, in terms of brand, they have large social followings. They are the players that you get to know over time. So the, I think the future is certainly bright and they're bringing that, you know, that [01:06:00] notoriety that brand recognition with them into the WNBA and highlining, the game that has always been great. And players who unfortunately didn't have the social following or, you know, the, quite the, the ability to see on television, right. That you had, uh, this last year I couldn't, I can't tell you how many times I tried to watch games two years ago and I couldn't find them. And yeah, now they're mainstream and on the LT: Yep. LaDonna Gooden: The, the streaming services in a way that they never have been before, which is a testament to, you know, the potential of these, uh, players and support to really drive growth, um, and revenue for those investing. You have, you know, she kang others just investing huge dollars into, um, these teams. And I'm excited about these new teams that have come out and wish there were more. I've seen some great players that are getting cut. LT: Mm hmm. Yes. [01:07:00] Our D our friends at Scripps have been in with, with it the whole whole way. We've, uh, we've done work with those, the folks at Scripps, they've been through it the whole way. So people like that really, really, uh, are there throughout. DC: Yeah, they, they made an investment in WNBA to be a, a primary asset for them. But LaDonna, um, I'm really glad you brought up the WNBA in your, what's popping? I didn't know you were going to do that in your, what's popping? You didn't know I was gonna start the show. Talking about Asia Wilson. LaDonna Gooden: Right. DC: Uh, and the, um, and, and, and, uh, her, her, her Nike A ones, uh, but, uh, I'll go to a quote here. Men lie, women lie numbers. Don't let, let's, let's go to the numbers here this year in the NBA regular season. Average viewers, 1.53 million. This is across ABC, ESPN, [01:08:00] and, uh, and TNT. So 1.53 million. This is the NBA y'all. We talking LeBron, Luca, Jason Tatum, Joker. SGA. So the average, LT: Don't forget my boy Steph. Now. DC: Oh, Steph, sorry. Steph. Steph, Draymond. All these, all these wonderful stars. All these wonderful stars. The average is 1.53 million. LaDonna Gooden: Okay? DC: This is for a regular season, NBA game. Alright, once again, I'm LaDonna. I'm gonna make the producers mad again. Alright, May 3rd of this year, May 3rd, 2025. Caitlyn Clark's team, the Indiana Fever, have a preseason basketball game against the Brazilian national team. Would you like to tell me any of the names of the players on the Brazilian national team? Okay. I don't know. I don't know who they are. One names. LT: You know they do that in Brazil, but I don't, I don't know the name. DC: Okay. I don't, I don't know names either. [01:09:00] It got up to a 1.6. LT: Wow. DC: This is a preseason WNBA preseason game. The Indiana Fever led by Caitlyn Clark playing a national team from Brazil did more than an average NBA game. That is ridiculous. Yeah, that, that's ridiculous. Another thing is that, uh. There are folks who invest early and believe in things early when it comes to women's sports and and beyond. In this case, uh, I wanna mention someone that I think very, very highly, uh, of, and you may know her, uh, LaDonna, but Jocelyn Monroe. LaDonna Gooden: Okay? DC: Yes. Okay. So Monroe is Vice President and Head of Marketing of the KC Current. This is the local football, football as in soccer team in Kansas City. She worked at CAA when [01:10:00] she worked at CAA. She helped one of our clients, Aflac get a partnership with women's basketball and the NCAA the current CMO of Aflac. His name is Garth Knutson. Garth Knutson. What up G? It's one of my boys. He pushed all of Aflac's chips. In NCAA women's basketball. So this is when Dawn Staley was coming up and Caitlyn Clark was doing her thing, angel Reese, all of these other players. So I have incredible respect for those who have pioneered where the women's game is today and where it is going. Love, love that. What's popping? LaDonna Gooden: I love it. I was thinking of, uh, when Boost, when it reminded me of Boost, uh, um, you know, the gorilla marketing strategy and I was thinking, you mentioned Dawn Staley and Aflac and, you know, uh, her [01:11:00] going around with a microphone tell to get people to come to games. Oh, yes. The investment of time and energy to build, you know, not only a program, but a brand and yes, enlightenment and energy around, uh, the sport which continues to build. So, I mean, a lot of, so much, um, you know, I've learned, you know, certainly from you is that whole grassroots, uh, approach to growth. It didn't ha it didn't happen overnight, Larry. I mean, no, there's a lot of people. Exactly. You know, not only money, but you know, personal time and commitment into growing DC: Yes. LaDonna Gooden: This brand for years. DC: Yes. LT: Great stuff. Uh, D, can't believe this, this is what happens La Donna, when we get, you know, folks like you on the show, it goes so fast. Okay. Look up and it's, and it's basically over. DC: It really does. LT: We're, we're at the show close. So I'm gonna posit my learnings. DC's [01:12:00] gonna do his, and if we have a minute, we'll, uh, we'll let you share some one, what you've learned from our conversation. So here's mine. I have five and a bonus. Um, okay. So number one, like Ladonna's learned, understand yourself well enough to know your optimal communication style. That's big, big, big Brand Nerds. Mm-hmm. Number two, like Glen Lauer, rest in peace. Have respect for brand, for boundaries. I love Ladonna's Line. Check in before you check out. That's great. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Number three, like Ladonna's done throughout her career and why she's COO, a big part of the reason why she's COO. Be open to feedback. It's gonna take you a long way. DC: Mm-hmm. LT: Number five, brand nerds. You've heard us say this a million times. Listen, listen, listen. We can't say it enough. Listen before you talk, that's why you have two years and one mouth, listen. Um, and, and actually I got my numbers wrong. The next one I have two [01:13:00] more trust and verify like LaDonna learned in her escapade in Japan. Trust and verify. It's been verified. It. Really important. And then my last one is, own your mistakes Brand Nerds. There's too many people out there in all parts of the world in business and government that don't want to seem like, uh, you know that something's, uh, ill at ease or wrong. And they want to blame others. Do the opposite. Own your mistakes. Quick, little 30 second tangent. DC and I were just talking about this the other day. Steve Kerr, the Warrior's coach, when after they lost game six at home, he walked into the locker room and he said, guys, this loss is on me. Mm-hmm. On me. I didn't prepare you well enough. So guess what happened? Draymond Green came and said, you know what? No, it's on me. Because I wasn't ready to play and all the other players and then they took accountability. And guess what that does? Brand Nerds, it provides a culture where [01:14:00] people are accountable. You own your mistakes, so then it's okay to admit that and then collectively get better. So that's a huge one. Own your mistakes and that's gonna take you and the team. You're with a really long way. Those are mine. DC: Fantastic, Larry. LaDonna. This is the part of the program where I make an attempt and the attempt is for me to articulate what I am feeling from the human that is before me and I do my best LaDonna to, to discern of the 7 billion plus people on this planet. What are some of the things that this person is going to be giving us that if she doesn't give it, we're not gonna get it? Hmm. And so I'm gonna [01:15:00] attempt to do that now. And these become really fun for me, LaDonna, when it involves people that I already know, because what I discover is I don't know them as well as I think I know them. And so I've learned some really, uh, dope things in this conversation with you and Larry. So I will go now into my thoughts. In answer to the question about your first branding experience. You talked about the Olympics and the characters and storylines, and Dan versus Dan, you were interested in the Olympics because you were also in the track. And there's something about track that's unique to typical team sports. You have track athletes who are competing mostly against themselves. Now they may be also competing [01:16:00] against others, but it's a, it's a time-based thing. Can I beat my personal time and many track athletes, you keep me honest on this LaDonna, 'cause I've never been a track athlete. You'll be like, if I run my best race, I gotta worry about nobody else. I just need to worry about my my start. I need to worry about how I get through the turn. If I worry about that, if I concern myself with that. I'm good. So there's almost like a spiritual thing happening where you are doing something in your, uh, for yourself and you are really pushing yourself, yet you are amongst others. So that was the first thing. The second here you are chief, chief of Staff, Glen, rest in power, and you are the youngest, the only woman, and the only black person. Big time stuff is going down. Billions of dollars of [01:17:00] acquisition is going down amongst this group, COO and then the um, the executive committee. And here you are once again, LaDonna alone, yet amongst the team, high stakes. High stakes. You weren't looking around the table going. Okay. Uh, I, I need another woman here that I can maybe go to and who can counsel me. No, no, no. They, she was not there. You weren't going, maybe there's a brother. Can, can we let another brother? He, he or she was not there. That Black person was not there. You weren't going like, can I get somebody that, at least within 10 years of me, no, that person was not there. You were by yourself yet amongst others in a high pressure situation. When we asked you the question about your biggest F up, you went to Japan. Oh, that was a good one. That, that, that, that was a good one. That then led to a discussion of you talking about slowing down to speed up. I gave the [01:18:00] Tony Stewart example, and then you talked about when you are running your fastest, it's like you're in the float. You're in the float. And I was like, Hmm. The float. The float. So here you are once again in Japan, you are alone doing your thing. LaDonna. Yeah. Yet amongst others. And then finally, you talked about your work in the mayor's office and, and how you are doing things to bring sports and other items to people in communities that may not get them. So here you are LaDonna as a former athlete. You may still be an athlete. Now, I don't know, master, um, person who, uh, NBA Ivy League trained finance, um, mergers and acquisition marketing, strategy tech. [01:19:00] And you are probably the only one. We're the only one with that set of experiences. Yet you were amongst a group of folks where you're like, let me try to bring this to the community. So you've had this duality going on, almost spiritual in nature. And so that brings me to this LaDonna. Um, I'm gonna go to Greek culture because you talked about the Olympics. Greek culture, uh, Brand Nerds, if you don't know it, look it up. Heavily influenced by African culture, heavily influenced, particularly Ethiopia. Particularly Ethiopia. But, uh, Nike is a word that we hear. We just think about the, the check. The swoosh. Nike is actually a Greek goddess. Nike is the Greek goddess of victory, of victory. That's that you, LaDonna are the Nike of the Corporate Game. [01:20:00] That's what I think you are. And I just wanna read a little bit about. What that means, this, this thing of being an individual, doing her thing amongst the team. So here we go. Nike, the Greek goddess of victory embodies the spirit of triumphant success. While she's often associated with individual victories in athletic competitions, her symbolism can be, can extend to team context. I'm not gonna read 'em all. I'm just gonna read a couple Collective Achievement. Just as Nike represents victory, her essence can be interpreted as a collective achievement In team settings, team strive for victory together, and each member plays a crucial role in entertaining success. The next one. Motivation and inspiration. Nike symbolizes the drive and determination needed to win. You have a drive to win LaDonna. In a team, this motivation can inspire each member to perform at their best, fostering a culture of excellence and [01:21:00] pushing everyone towards a common goal. This is why I think you are the Nike of the Corporate Game. LaDonna Gooden: Wow. Wow. That's super humbling. Thank you. Oh, um, that is, you know, deep. So I appreciate, I'm, I'm grateful and humble that you would even, uh, posit that, uh, at all. So, um, it's been an incredible journey. It's been incredible spending this time with you. I think, I think the biggest takeaway for this, like in that drive to win, I think this moment of reflection and consideration is incredibly valuable. Uh, so appreciate both of you for, uh, giving that time. And also just thinking about letting people know what their impact is in the moment. Like it's, so many people have helped or been part of my journey and, uh, you never say it enough or, you [01:22:00] know, you've really made me think of some conversation I'd like to have. So I think this is, uh, an incredible, um, you know, moment to consider and I'm looking forward to what's next. LT: That's awesome. That's a mic drop, D, It is, it is. So Brand Nerds, thank you so much for listening to Brands, Beats and Bytes. The executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin, Larry Taman, Hailey Cobbin, Jade Tate, and Tom Dioro. And if you do like this podcast, please subscribe and share and for those on Apple podcasts if you're so inclined, we love those excellent reviews. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and we look forward to next time where we will have more insightful and enlightening talk about marketing.