Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Is the wrong man charged with killing Tara Grinstead?

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Is the wrong man charged with killing Tara Grinstead? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious ex M Triumph
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Speaker 1: Channel one thirty till on Saturday, October twenty two and
0:14
Speaker 1: two thousand five, Tera Grinstead went missing from her residence.
0:17
Speaker 1: As the hours turned into days, days in two weeks,
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Speaker 1: weeks in two months, and eventually months into years, the
0:24
Speaker 1: search efforts never ceased. A few days ago, an individual
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Speaker 1: came forward and reported that they had information into Terror's disappearance.
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Speaker 1: Enough probable cause was discovered so we could swear out
0:35
Speaker 1: and arrest warrant charging Ryan Alexander Duke with the murder
0:40
Speaker 1: of Tera Grinstead. So we always believed that it would
0:43
Speaker 1: be solved. We just did not know when we go
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Speaker 1: live in the search for a missing beauty queen turned
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Speaker 1: history teacher who vanished after a cook out. The entire
0:59
Speaker 1: town of Oscilla searching still for Tara Grinstead. But where
1:06
Speaker 1: is she? What are police missing? What is that missing? Clue?
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Speaker 1: Exclusive coverage right now with an expert in the search
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Speaker 1: for Tera Grinstead. I mean it, See Grace, this is
1:21
Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Oscilla is
1:24
Speaker 1: a beautiful small town. I've been there many many times,
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Speaker 1: including into Tara Grinstead's home, and I can tell you,
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Speaker 1: Dr Maurice Godwin, that the inside of her home looked
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Speaker 1: like a little jewel box. Her mother, following her disappearance,
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Speaker 1: gave me a tour of her home, and it looked
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Speaker 1: like it was straight out of one of my favorite magazines,
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Speaker 1: Ballard Designs. Okay, Dr god When I don't expect you
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Speaker 1: to know about home furnishings, but her home, it looked
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Speaker 1: like she had decorated it by hand, and every room
2:01
Speaker 1: was like a little masterpiece. It was tiny, tiny, but
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Speaker 1: I noticed that everything was not in place in her bedroom.
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Speaker 1: Tera Grinstead, a beauty queen turned history teacher seeking her PhD,
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Speaker 1: goes missing mysteriously two. Dr Maurice Godwin, who specializes in
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Speaker 1: forensics and psychology, actually was hired by Terra's family to
2:33
Speaker 1: get to the bottom of her disappearance. You know, we
2:37
Speaker 1: know that one arrest has been made, and arrest of
2:41
Speaker 1: someone nobody expected, a student of hers, about two or
2:47
Speaker 1: three years before she went missing. But this case is
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Speaker 1: far from over. Let's go back, Dr Godwin and review
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Speaker 1: what we know to be true as we still search
3:00
Speaker 1: for Terry Grinstead and whoever may have been involved in
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Speaker 1: her disappearance. Doctor god would take me back to the
3:07
Speaker 1: day she went missing. What happened? She had some girls
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Speaker 1: over because during paget story, uh, the paget stuff and
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Speaker 1: everything and try to trying to coach kids and stuff
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Speaker 1: and how to be in beauty pagets, the makeup, the hair,
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Speaker 1: dear Lord in Heaven, that is an ordeal grande. So
3:26
Speaker 1: she was mentoring these young girls, that's right. So during
3:29
Speaker 1: the day on October uh twenty, that sarady, she had
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Speaker 1: some girls over to her home and uh they were
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Speaker 1: during hair and makeup for preparation for a beauty uh
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Speaker 1: paget that night that Sara to night and Fitzgerald she
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Speaker 1: was going to the beauty padget. Also miss Sweet Potato
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Speaker 1: Paget and so hey, wait a minute, wait a minute.
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Speaker 1: With several people there that I'm a little shot. I've
3:55
Speaker 1: got two producers in the room with me, and one
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Speaker 1: is actually laughing when you said miss sweet Potato. And
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Speaker 1: I've only resent that, Jackie. I've never disagreed with you before.
4:03
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you why. That's a lot of hard work.
4:07
Speaker 1: And people pass off these contestants as dumb bunnies. That
4:11
Speaker 1: is so not true. You go try to squeeze into
4:14
Speaker 1: a size to swimsuit and answer difficult questions about politics
4:17
Speaker 1: and geography. Good luck, mommy. Okay, Well she was doing
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Speaker 1: it for a scholarship money. Yes, that's right, and that's
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Speaker 1: that's really there. I hope you heard that, Jackie. Okay,
4:28
Speaker 1: just stop gesticulating at me. Okay, back to Dr Godwin going.
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Speaker 1: I mean that was the only reason. Really, she was
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Speaker 1: doing a scholarship money. And so she went to off
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Speaker 1: its Geryl and she left about seven thirty one of
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Speaker 1: her um the girls that was at the paget, named Dana.
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Speaker 1: She walked with Tara out to Tara's car and um.
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Speaker 1: Despite other reports and stuff, a few recent reports in
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Speaker 1: the last six months, Tara was in good spirits and
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Speaker 1: and Tara told her that she had to go to
4:59
Speaker 1: her boss BBC. Right, it was was that her was
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Speaker 1: that the Prince School principal or their superintendent of schools?
5:05
Speaker 1: It was the superintendent of the school. Right. Did he
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Speaker 1: refuse to take a DNA test? Yes, but he refused,
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Speaker 1: he refused, But they got it anyhow how did they
5:15
Speaker 1: get it? They would never tell me. But you know what,
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Speaker 1: it's so it's so easy to get DNA. You know,
5:21
Speaker 1: you watch somebody a restaurant. The minute they get up,
5:23
Speaker 1: you go get their glass. Bam done. You know, a
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Speaker 1: lot several cases and I've researched this have been solved.
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Speaker 1: There's the pizza case where they got somebody to eat
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Speaker 1: pizza and then the left over crust. They got DNA
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Speaker 1: off of it. You can get DNA office stamp. I've
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Speaker 1: got DNA in a case I tried out of spit
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Speaker 1: that somebody spit on the ground and actually on the
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Speaker 1: victim off a cigarette. But it ain't brain surgery. Okay,
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Speaker 1: So they got DNA from him. You know. That left
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Speaker 1: him under a cloud of suspicion because he refused to
5:54
Speaker 1: give d N a but he, as it turns out,
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Speaker 1: he had absolutely nothing to do with this. I had
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Speaker 1: to go ahead, but he was I mean, I had
6:02
Speaker 1: him on my radar for a long time and he
6:04
Speaker 1: refused to talk to me in six anyway, she went
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Speaker 1: to his barbecue, arriving about eight o'clock PM, and she
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Speaker 1: had a good time. She was chatting and stuff and
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Speaker 1: she um. During that time at the barbecue, she received
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Speaker 1: a number of phone calls. Wait a minute, did she
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Speaker 1: arrive and leave alone? Yes? Okay, she arrived at eight
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Speaker 1: o'clock PM something. The phone calls, they claimed with paget
6:30
Speaker 1: girls calling her to thank her and everything. But about
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Speaker 1: ten twenty she received a phone call and that was
6:37
Speaker 1: the detective from Perry, Georgia and he still had a
6:42
Speaker 1: crush on her. Yeah, they were seeing each other anyway.
6:45
Speaker 1: They said the goodbyes and she said I love you too.
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Speaker 1: That was at ten twenty. So she left around eleven
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Speaker 1: o'clock and it's zero point seven tenths of a mile
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Speaker 1: from the house to her house. She drove back to
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Speaker 1: her house and she was She was never seen since. Wow,
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Speaker 1: I didn't know it was such a short distance. Dr Godwin.
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Speaker 1: So this is what I know. I know that she
7:11
Speaker 1: was a neat freak, and I know that on her
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Speaker 1: her vehicle when they when police looked at it after
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Speaker 1: she was reported missing, it was covered in mud and
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Speaker 1: she would never have done that, and that the driver's
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Speaker 1: seat had been pushed back, which all you ladies you
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Speaker 1: know what I mean. It is so irritating you get
7:34
Speaker 1: in your car and your husband or some guy has
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Speaker 1: been in it and I can't even I'm only five one.
7:39
Speaker 1: I can't even touch the gas. Okay. So they noticed
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Speaker 1: that immediately she lived alone, so who else that evening
7:48
Speaker 1: had driven her car and gotten it filthy? There were
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Speaker 1: items in her vehicle that you would expect to be
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Speaker 1: stolen if somebody had taken a joy ride or tried
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Speaker 1: to steal. Yeah, in the center console. And not only that.
8:02
Speaker 1: In her bedroom, h there were reportedly a string of
8:06
Speaker 1: pearls on the floor that had been broken, and there
8:12
Speaker 1: was an injury to one of the posts on her bed. Yeah,
8:15
Speaker 1: I found that. Oh you were the one that found that.
8:18
Speaker 1: Please describe that for me. Surprisingly, I was down on
8:22
Speaker 1: the floor crawling. She had the old timmy wooden floor
8:27
Speaker 1: and they were varnished and stuff. But I was down
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Speaker 1: on the floor crawling and I saw I saw the
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Speaker 1: bed at the end on the side she slept was
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Speaker 1: split right into and the piece was laying in the
8:38
Speaker 1: middle of the bed star I mean under the bed,
8:41
Speaker 1: in the middle of the floor, under the bed. Also
8:44
Speaker 1: under there was a big, a whole box full of
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Speaker 1: letters and everything from her ex boyfriend, uh Marcus, and
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Speaker 1: it had some dust on it. I'm not sure why
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Speaker 1: GB I didn't collect any of that, you know. Also,
8:56
Speaker 1: a lamp was the skew. A lamp shade was a
9:00
Speaker 1: skew and she would let me let me just say
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Speaker 1: something about that. It's more than the lamp of shade
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Speaker 1: being a skewed. Uh. The actual plastic lamp socket, the
9:11
Speaker 1: bulk socket were screwed into, was actually broke and the
9:15
Speaker 1: and uh completely bent to the right and broken, and
9:19
Speaker 1: that plastic piece was found. I found it under the bed.
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Speaker 1: You know, it's amazing that you found all this and
9:25
Speaker 1: police didn't. So let me understand another fine points here.
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Speaker 1: The the bedpost that was broken and the piece of
9:35
Speaker 1: it was under the bed. Was it near the lamp,
9:38
Speaker 1: the broken lamp. No, No, it was at the foot.
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Speaker 1: Was it on the same side, Yeah, So it seems
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Speaker 1: as if the struggle may have started at the the struggle,
9:50
Speaker 1: whether it started, that was between the bedpost and the
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Speaker 1: lamp on the same side that she slept on, as
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Speaker 1: if she may have been getting into bed and then
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Speaker 1: a struggle ensued. That's in the bedroom, that's correct. You know.
10:04
Speaker 1: I went down there and looked all over town, searched
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Speaker 1: everything I could, went through her house, went through her yard. Oh,
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Speaker 1: speaking of her yard, doctor Godwin, what was found in
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Speaker 1: her yard about ten ft from the concrete front porch,
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Speaker 1: as you walked directly out of the front door, laying
10:23
Speaker 1: um right on the edge in pine straw. And the
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Speaker 1: grass um was a flesh color white, a latex glove one.
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Speaker 1: And if you go back and look at the original
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Speaker 1: photographs from the g b I, from all that glove
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Speaker 1: and stuff, if you go back and look at it,
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Speaker 1: the glove just wasn't laying on top of the pine straw.
10:47
Speaker 1: Somebody had pulled back the pine straw. And you know
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Speaker 1: under a new pines stroll on the top is dark brown,
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Speaker 1: black type pine straw. Somebody had pulled that back some too,
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Speaker 1: almost to the ground. The glove was laying in a
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Speaker 1: little valley so so it just didn't fall out and
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Speaker 1: land on the on the pin stroll. There was a
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Speaker 1: little pull out area where that somebody had taken their
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Speaker 1: fingers and raped it back a little bit, and and
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Speaker 1: that glove was laying in in there and that They
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Speaker 1: did DNA analysis on that and it came back uh
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Speaker 1: to a full DNA profile or white male. But the
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Speaker 1: problem is, and they never knew who the white male was. No.
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Speaker 1: Over eleven years they entered it into Kotas they entered
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Speaker 1: to the Georgia DNA they and never got a hit. Okay,
11:35
Speaker 1: hold on, before I get to the very the very
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Speaker 1: most recent. How did you get involved in the case
11:43
Speaker 1: one of the dog holenders uh that was working in
11:46
Speaker 1: OH five? UM we he and I had worked in
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Speaker 1: the Drew Schoden case UH South Dakota, North Dakota, and
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Speaker 1: he knew me and everything. So he told TERA's sister
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Speaker 1: and need about me and UM and she contacted me
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Speaker 1: in UM the first February of oh six, and I
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Speaker 1: didn't take the case because I was busy. She contacted
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Speaker 1: me about three weeks later, and I took the case
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Speaker 1: and then I went down in March of o six.
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Speaker 1: So you were contacted then by Tarra Grinstead's family. What
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Speaker 1: were you able to uncover? And it's amazing to me,
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Speaker 1: and this is no slight against your skills, which are
12:23
Speaker 1: actually renowned, but it's amazing to me that cops didn't
12:27
Speaker 1: find the splintered bed post piece and the broken lamp piece.
12:32
Speaker 1: I mean to me, that's very significant. Well, there was
12:35
Speaker 1: also she was studying to get into the PhD program,
12:38
Speaker 1: so she had one of those thick g R E
12:41
Speaker 1: books okay that was laying on the floor under the
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Speaker 1: edge of the bed. And had dust on it that
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Speaker 1: was still there. I'm just soaking all this in. How
12:50
Speaker 1: did they miss it all? Doctor? I don't know that
12:53
Speaker 1: the rug, the rug beside her bed, I pulled it up.
12:58
Speaker 1: Now you know, it had been like four much. But
13:00
Speaker 1: the thing is I pulled a rug up and in
13:03
Speaker 1: the in the rubber back in some of the a
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Speaker 1: lot of it pulled off. They were stuck to that
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Speaker 1: varnished floor. So uh, it had never been pulled up
13:13
Speaker 1: With me is Dr Maurice Godwin, a doctor whose specialty
13:17
Speaker 1: is forensics and psychology. He was actually employed hired by
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Speaker 1: Tara Grinstead's family to get to the truth of what
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Speaker 1: happened to their beautiful girl, A pageant beauty queen and
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Speaker 1: brainy as well. Beauty queen turned history teachers seeking her
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Speaker 1: pH d who went to college based on beauty pageant
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Speaker 1: scholarship money. Yes, she dated several people in her local
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Speaker 1: town of Oscilla, Georgia, but all that ended when she
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Speaker 1: disappeared after a school barbecue. What happened to Tara Grinstead?
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Speaker 1: I mean, I see grace. This is crime stories. And
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Speaker 1: of course I'm so grateful to not only Dr Godwin
14:02
Speaker 1: for being with us, but you being here with us
14:06
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Speaker 1: Grace zip recruiter dot com. Thank you. I want to
15:38
Speaker 1: get back to Dr Maurice Godwin. Dr Godwin, so years
15:42
Speaker 1: pass and I think everybody really looked at Marcus the boyfriend.
15:47
Speaker 1: They had a very volatile relationship. He was a cop.
15:52
Speaker 1: He had a certain degree of power in town. Uh.
15:55
Speaker 1: You know, cops certainly know where to hide a body.
15:58
Speaker 1: And there's no shortage, you know, within an hour or
16:01
Speaker 1: two hours of Oscilla, there is thousands of acres of
16:04
Speaker 1: swamp land, waterways, you name it. Everyone kind of suspected
16:10
Speaker 1: him because that's just the way of the world. Statistics
16:14
Speaker 1: show when a woman is murdered or goes missing, it's
16:17
Speaker 1: very likely her partner, her ex husband, boyfriend, our partner,
16:23
Speaker 1: and so he naturally came under suspicion. Boy was everybody wrong? Then?
16:29
Speaker 1: What happened? Dr Godwin? Well, there was also um the
16:32
Speaker 1: person the detective she was seeing too, So he was
16:35
Speaker 1: a he was as right, the guy from Perry, Georgia,
16:39
Speaker 1: and he was the last one that we know talked
16:41
Speaker 1: to her on the phone that night, that's right when
16:44
Speaker 1: she got back home that night. She she just disappeared
16:47
Speaker 1: and the glove was found out there and the g B.
16:51
Speaker 1: I mean, what happened was is, um, she didn't show
16:54
Speaker 1: up Monday morning at work, and so the the elderly
16:58
Speaker 1: couple next door. He was a counselman, so he had
17:02
Speaker 1: the chief's cell phone number in his cellphone, so he
17:05
Speaker 1: called the Chief of Azila and um, he came over there,
17:09
Speaker 1: and Joe had a key to the house, so he
17:13
Speaker 1: went in and uh and didn't see anything. And he
17:16
Speaker 1: came back out and death and Joe saw the glove
17:19
Speaker 1: laying on the pin straw, like the Chief said back then,
17:24
Speaker 1: trying to find a needle in the haystack. We don't
17:27
Speaker 1: even know where the haystack is. Dr Maurice Godwin finally
17:31
Speaker 1: led to a very recent arrest after years passing. I
17:37
Speaker 1: imagine her parents are just about giving up because when
17:40
Speaker 1: I met with her mom, her mom looked so burdened
17:44
Speaker 1: and so, I mean, she's a lovely lady. I guess
17:47
Speaker 1: that's where Tara got her good looks, but she just
17:50
Speaker 1: her demeanor was just so like she was carrying the
17:54
Speaker 1: weight of the world on her shoulder. I think he
17:56
Speaker 1: played a role into her health going Dwynlyn definitely. You know,
18:01
Speaker 1: people say that you can die of a broken heart,
18:04
Speaker 1: and I don't think that's altogether wrong. Now, medical doctors
18:08
Speaker 1: will disagree with you, but frankly, what do they know.
18:11
Speaker 1: Um back to the break in the case. I did
18:14
Speaker 1: not see this coming. I did not. Of course. I
18:18
Speaker 1: assume that you should look at her current students, you know.
18:23
Speaker 1: I just as soon I can tell you what myself.
18:27
Speaker 1: And oh fifteen, I was on a national show on
18:30
Speaker 1: this and Anita was on there too, and I made
18:33
Speaker 1: a comment about the g B. I said, after ten years,
18:36
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to change the strategy. You're gonna have
18:38
Speaker 1: to do something, you know, until they are arrested. Ryan
18:42
Speaker 1: and had that one press conference that there was never
18:45
Speaker 1: any press conference about Tara at all in eleven years.
18:49
Speaker 1: It's amazing to me. I know, I know you, and
18:51
Speaker 1: you never I said, you need to change your strategy.
18:53
Speaker 1: So when I got back home, hold on just a moment,
18:56
Speaker 1: doctor Dr Murray Scott win with me. Listen to that announcement.
19:01
Speaker 1: On Saturday, October twenty two and two thousand five, Tera
19:05
Speaker 1: Grinstead went missing from her residence. The Ocello Police Department
19:09
Speaker 1: responded to her residence immediately they suspected foul play. Additional
19:14
Speaker 1: law enforcement resources were requested. The Irwin County Sheriff's Office
19:19
Speaker 1: and the g b I came in and began a
19:21
Speaker 1: search at Terra's house. The troubling thing when you're working
19:25
Speaker 1: an investigation into a missing person's case is that there's
19:28
Speaker 1: generally very little evidence. Terra's home was searched extensively for
19:33
Speaker 1: several days, which produced little physical evidence. As with all
19:37
Speaker 1: missing person cases, the investigation started focusing on terraces, close friends,
19:42
Speaker 1: and associates. Terra was very well known in this community
19:46
Speaker 1: and well liked in her community, so she had many
19:50
Speaker 1: contacts and friends in various parts of the community. As
19:53
Speaker 1: the hours turned into days, days in two weeks, weeks
19:57
Speaker 1: in two months, and eventually months into years, the search
20:01
Speaker 1: efforts never ceased. Through these eleven plus years, the GBI
20:05
Speaker 1: and other law enforcement officers have received hundreds and hundreds
20:10
Speaker 1: of tips. The gb I handles unsolved cases in the
20:14
Speaker 1: same manner we handled our active investigations. All open files
20:18
Speaker 1: are reviewed every couple of months. That way, we do
20:21
Speaker 1: not let we do not have cold cases. Each and
20:25
Speaker 1: every tip that came in was vetted and checked against
20:28
Speaker 1: what we had already done in this investigation. Interviews were conducted,
20:33
Speaker 1: searches were executed, multiple DNA samples were collected. Each lead
20:40
Speaker 1: was thoroughly exhausted. Unfortunately, all of these leads ended with
20:45
Speaker 1: a dead end until the last couple of days. A
20:49
Speaker 1: few days ago, an individual came forward and reported that
20:52
Speaker 1: they had information into terrorist disappearance. This information made it
20:56
Speaker 1: to my office. In our case, Agent Jason Shadell was
21:00
Speaker 1: in out to conduct an interview. This interview generated several
21:03
Speaker 1: more interviews, which was followed up by the rest of
21:06
Speaker 1: our office here. Through these interviews enough probable cause was
21:10
Speaker 1: discovered so we could swear out and a rest warrant
21:13
Speaker 1: charging Ryan Alexander Duke with the murder of Tara Grinstead.
21:20
Speaker 1: Duke was taken into custody yesterday afternoon and the warrant
21:24
Speaker 1: was issued this morning. So that's the announcement you're talking about,
21:28
Speaker 1: Dr God. But who who saw this coming? I mean,
21:31
Speaker 1: this guy never caused a problem at school. They did
21:35
Speaker 1: not have a relationship. I mean I got into it
21:38
Speaker 1: the other day at crime con when it was suggested
21:41
Speaker 1: that she had some kind of illicit sex relationship with
21:45
Speaker 1: this guy one of her students. No, I don't believe
21:48
Speaker 1: that for a minute. If there was all and I
21:50
Speaker 1: do believe sex maybe was the motive behind all this,
21:55
Speaker 1: but it was against her will. I think you're right
21:57
Speaker 1: about that, because if they wanted to steal something, I mean,
22:01
Speaker 1: they could have done it, and I don't. I think
22:04
Speaker 1: you're right about that. And I really am angry about
22:10
Speaker 1: suggestions that she was in the wrong place, that she
22:16
Speaker 1: went quote went somewhere she shouldn't have. That really made
22:20
Speaker 1: me mad. And doctor Godwin, you should have seen the
22:25
Speaker 1: that's right, that's right, thank you, the uproar, the uproar.
22:29
Speaker 1: I should have had you up there on that panel.
22:31
Speaker 1: The uproar that erupted at crime Con when it was
22:35
Speaker 1: suggested that she had a relationship to me that it
22:41
Speaker 1: was being suggested that he had some kind of sex
22:43
Speaker 1: relationship with this boy. I think I think what it
22:47
Speaker 1: was wasn't really saying that. I think he was saying
22:50
Speaker 1: because because she was an emotional wreck over Marcus and
22:55
Speaker 1: and that made her voteable. Uh And and I don't
22:59
Speaker 1: think that was anything. Uh. I think maybe he was
23:03
Speaker 1: saying I think maybe she would go she would have
23:06
Speaker 1: taken a risk and gone some word not to have
23:09
Speaker 1: sex that thing, but gone some wre that put herself
23:12
Speaker 1: at risk. Amante. She was just on the phone with
23:14
Speaker 1: the the current boyfriend from Perry. Now this whole thing
23:18
Speaker 1: with the ex Marcus, the volatile relationship was on again,
23:21
Speaker 1: off again then and he was a cop. Then enter
23:25
Speaker 1: the detective in Perry, a nearby town. She was currently
23:30
Speaker 1: seeing him. I mean nothing, ever, and I said, I
23:34
Speaker 1: taught while I was waiting to get into law school.
23:37
Speaker 1: Nothing would make me interested in a thirteen year old
23:40
Speaker 1: boy except to tell him to sit down and shut up.
23:44
Speaker 1: Uh no, no, Uh, this woman, Terry Grant said, I'm
23:48
Speaker 1: just telling you a beauty queen getting her PhD Uh.
23:52
Speaker 1: She did not was not interested in some history students
23:56
Speaker 1: she had three years before. N Oh, I think everything
23:59
Speaker 1: was against her. Or you notice one thing about the
24:03
Speaker 1: charges and stuff. If they had any evidence that she
24:06
Speaker 1: was taken while she was alive from the house, they
24:11
Speaker 1: were to charge kidnapping and there's no kidnapping charges. Well,
24:16
Speaker 1: I don't know, I disagree. Well, well, let me let
24:19
Speaker 1: me rephrase. I don't know that I disagree with what
24:20
Speaker 1: you said, but I think that they know they cannot
24:23
Speaker 1: prove a kidnapping. I do not think that, Terra Grinstead,
24:28
Speaker 1: I mean you take in the lamp, the broken lamp,
24:30
Speaker 1: the broken bed post, the pearls uh, the car all
24:36
Speaker 1: covered in mud and the seat kicked back. She did
24:40
Speaker 1: not go anywhere willingly. But that in itself, in their minds,
24:44
Speaker 1: may not be enough to prove kidnapping. So just because
24:46
Speaker 1: they don't indict it for kidnapping doesn't mean it ain't.
24:49
Speaker 1: So I want to get back to how did this
24:52
Speaker 1: guy go under the radar? This student she had three
24:56
Speaker 1: or four years before she goes missing. Who is this guy?
24:59
Speaker 1: Where did he come from? And how did he get busted? Well,
25:04
Speaker 1: let me just say this. When I was talking about
25:06
Speaker 1: changing strategies I got back, you know, fifteen, I said.
25:10
Speaker 1: I was telling the GB I that, and so I
25:12
Speaker 1: need to change my own strategy after ten years. And
25:16
Speaker 1: so that's when I saw the post in January o
25:20
Speaker 1: six on web slutes from Pain and I said, well,
25:24
Speaker 1: maybe here's my strategy after all this long time. Maybe
25:27
Speaker 1: I can use a big the media like a podcast
25:30
Speaker 1: or something that can help this in the case. So
25:33
Speaker 1: I agreed to work with him, and we started the
25:35
Speaker 1: podcast and stuff and I think it played a role
25:40
Speaker 1: in um and fleshing out this uh bo dukes in
25:44
Speaker 1: rhyme do um and so that's that that that was
25:49
Speaker 1: my strategy, uh, the changing strategy and stuff. UM. And
25:53
Speaker 1: I believe if we the podcast had never been done,
25:56
Speaker 1: I don't believe there would have ever been in arrest
25:58
Speaker 1: for a long time. I think he may be right
26:01
Speaker 1: about that. Dr Maurice Godwin. So what can you tell
26:04
Speaker 1: me about the man arrested Ryan? Um? Uh, he went
26:10
Speaker 1: in the military. Uh, but after boot count stuff, he
26:14
Speaker 1: was he was released for some reason. What is his
26:17
Speaker 1: full name, Ryan Alexandra Duke. Because I don't really refer
26:21
Speaker 1: to killers by their excuse me, alleged killers by their
26:25
Speaker 1: first names. I'm not really on a first name basis
26:27
Speaker 1: with him or O j or Jody or top mom.
26:32
Speaker 1: So all right, I thought maybe I lost my mind
26:34
Speaker 1: when he said Ryan. His name is Ryan Alexander Duke. Okay,
26:37
Speaker 1: back to him. Who is this guy? Uh? Well, he
26:40
Speaker 1: was a former student. He went in the military for
26:42
Speaker 1: some reason. After boot count he got out, so he
26:46
Speaker 1: never really went he just went to boot camp basically. Yeah.
26:49
Speaker 1: Then he had um he was you know, employed, unemployed. Um,
26:55
Speaker 1: just hanging around a scilla. Um, I think he had
26:59
Speaker 1: a drinking problem, and I'm not sure about a heavy
27:03
Speaker 1: drug problem. But he had a drinking problem and he
27:05
Speaker 1: was living in october O five with Bow Dukes in Fitzgerald.
27:11
Speaker 1: He comes from um more of an unstable background, uh
27:16
Speaker 1: and everything. Of course, I'm not quite short fullly aware
27:20
Speaker 1: of Bow's background, but Ryan did not come from any
27:25
Speaker 1: privilege or any kind of money or anything like that.
27:28
Speaker 1: Well that's pretty much all of us, Dr Godwin. So
27:32
Speaker 1: what do you think happened and why how did he
27:36
Speaker 1: get busted? I understand someone walked into the police department,
27:41
Speaker 1: the local police department. He gave a tip. Yes, Um,
27:45
Speaker 1: my understanding is is that Bow was a dating a
27:49
Speaker 1: girl and um, they have been dating over a year
27:53
Speaker 1: at this time, so I'm not quite sure if she
27:56
Speaker 1: knew before February of seventeen. Anyway, she found out and
28:02
Speaker 1: she mentioned it to her mom, and it's my understanding
28:05
Speaker 1: her mom uh went to law enforcements. So he the roommate,
28:10
Speaker 1: says something to his girlfriend about Ryan. Alexander Duke though
28:15
Speaker 1: about the um the disappearance and what happened to Tara. Oh,
28:20
Speaker 1: he didn't say he did it. Uh, I'm not quite
28:22
Speaker 1: sure if he told her or not, but he said
28:24
Speaker 1: he knew about it. Anyway, she took it and went
28:27
Speaker 1: to her mother and or or mentioned it in in
28:30
Speaker 1: passing to her mother, and her mother went to law
28:34
Speaker 1: enforcement and uh, then then that's when everything Brother, they
28:38
Speaker 1: approached him, they had to get evidence on it, so
28:41
Speaker 1: they went to him, and he just he threw Ryan
28:44
Speaker 1: under the under the bus. So the mother of the
28:47
Speaker 1: girlfriend goes to Cups. Cups go to Ryan Alexander Duke
28:51
Speaker 1: and then what happens we don't know because of the
28:54
Speaker 1: gaggle or we don't know if the DNA on the
28:56
Speaker 1: globe matches Ryan or anyone. So we don't know at
29:00
Speaker 1: but they must have a probable cost based on Bo's testimony,
29:05
Speaker 1: I mean a Bo's uh you know interview, and then
29:09
Speaker 1: they I think maybe they got some um you know,
29:13
Speaker 1: sort of small confession from Ryan. And then they made
29:16
Speaker 1: the arrest of Ryan. Where why were they digging in
29:20
Speaker 1: a pecan orchard? Well, because that's that was that's owned
29:24
Speaker 1: by Bo's uncle and stuff. And and supposedly after the
29:29
Speaker 1: killing or somehow she got out either she was carried
29:33
Speaker 1: out there or or somehow she was already out there.
29:35
Speaker 1: But that's where No, I mean, you can't. I don't
29:38
Speaker 1: think that her bedroom would be so disheveled if she
29:42
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, so she went home. Okay, yeah,
29:45
Speaker 1: she went home. I think she to me in my
29:48
Speaker 1: in my opinion, I think she was attacked into bedroom
29:51
Speaker 1: and they got her from there and uh or killed
29:54
Speaker 1: her there and carre and carre of body back to
29:56
Speaker 1: Fitzgerald and went to the pecan or and she stayed
30:01
Speaker 1: supposed to there for like a day or whatever, and
30:04
Speaker 1: then they, uh they burned her up, embarrassed her. Okay,
30:10
Speaker 1: slow down, tell me that again. What's your scenario they
30:14
Speaker 1: went after she was killed, that she was carried back
30:18
Speaker 1: to Fitzgerald. They was, she was taken over to the
30:22
Speaker 1: pecan orchard and she was burned up and then she
30:27
Speaker 1: was buried. What are you basing on the burning up? Well,
30:31
Speaker 1: this is our bows um, what he has told people,
30:35
Speaker 1: and that this what's out there. Yes, and plus they've
30:38
Speaker 1: only they only found small fragments of bones and stuff
30:43
Speaker 1: like that, but she was she was definitely burned. But
30:46
Speaker 1: why do you say that? How do you know Tara
30:48
Speaker 1: Grinstead was burnt Well, based on what Bow and then
30:52
Speaker 1: was said. Okay, now let me ask you this. Do
30:55
Speaker 1: you believe Bow was with right Alexander when all this occurred?
31:01
Speaker 1: I think I think bose the killer and I think
31:06
Speaker 1: that I think that she was sexually assaulted in what
31:10
Speaker 1: better way to get rid of a forensic evidence than
31:12
Speaker 1: burning the body? Well, then what role does Ryan Alexander
31:17
Speaker 1: Dup play in it? I think he's very suggestible and uh,
31:22
Speaker 1: I think that he don't even I don't even think
31:24
Speaker 1: that he really even knows. But um, but I think
31:28
Speaker 1: Ryan is a follower Bow as a leader, and I
31:33
Speaker 1: just think they were the Bow. Well, isn't it true
31:38
Speaker 1: that Bo claims in text messages that Ryan Alexander Duke
31:44
Speaker 1: told him he killed Tera in her own bed. Uh,
31:51
Speaker 1: that's what he said, That's right, with one hit. Uh?
31:57
Speaker 1: But I mean supposedly Bo said that that Saturday night
32:01
Speaker 1: there was a people in his house and Fitzgerald and
32:03
Speaker 1: they all was drinking. They passed out except except Ryan,
32:07
Speaker 1: and Ryan took his truck to a sailing and killed
32:11
Speaker 1: her and brought her back. And then suddenly I guess
32:14
Speaker 1: Bo woke up or something, but he told him that
32:16
Speaker 1: he had what he'd done, and he had her in
32:18
Speaker 1: the truck and so. But Bou claims that he didn't
32:21
Speaker 1: see her for until Wednesday. He didn't see the body.
32:24
Speaker 1: He went out there and she was bloated up and stuff.
32:27
Speaker 1: I don't believe that at all, I think he I mean,
32:31
Speaker 1: I don't think Ryan picked out bows a family land
32:37
Speaker 1: to put her on on his own will. I think
32:41
Speaker 1: that Bow was behind uh, he was behind the word
32:45
Speaker 1: that body was dumped at. And you believe that Bow
32:49
Speaker 1: sexually assaulted her? I believe, Oh yeah, I believe it absolutely.
32:54
Speaker 1: Now in the text exchanges that have now been revealed,
33:00
Speaker 1: Bow has actually described watching Tera Grinstead's body burning. Is
33:05
Speaker 1: that true now? He Bow claims it was two full
33:09
Speaker 1: days after the killings that Duke his roommate, showed him
33:15
Speaker 1: terras naked body in the pecan orchard, and that it
33:22
Speaker 1: was his idea to burn the body. That does not
33:24
Speaker 1: ring true to me. If somebody came and said to me,
33:27
Speaker 1: I've got Alan Duke lurking somewhere on this this program.
33:31
Speaker 1: I am here. Alan. If you were to come tell me, hey,
33:34
Speaker 1: I've got a naked body out of my truck bed,
33:36
Speaker 1: you think I'd wait two days to go a look
33:38
Speaker 1: at it. Uh in Oh that that's that's just down
33:43
Speaker 1: right not true right there. I agree with you, Dr
33:45
Speaker 1: god when I agree, Yeah, there's there's a lot that
33:48
Speaker 1: the doctor Godwin has been able to uncover along with
33:51
Speaker 1: the others working what what sticks out to you? The
33:55
Speaker 1: thing that sticks out to me and it's a really
33:57
Speaker 1: concern and the reason that that I think Dr god
34:00
Speaker 1: might think that Bow is implicated more than more than
34:03
Speaker 1: he's admitting to. Is this whole thing about the statute
34:07
Speaker 1: of limitations. Could you go into that with us, Dr Godwin. See,
34:10
Speaker 1: supposedly they got a call, uh probably a week or
34:14
Speaker 1: two or something afterwards she went missing. Uh, they got
34:18
Speaker 1: a call the Herble County Sheriff's department and supposedly, uh,
34:22
Speaker 1: two deputies went to the county line ben Hill county
34:27
Speaker 1: line where which is what Fitzgerald's at, and supposed to
34:31
Speaker 1: they went out there and drove around and searched. Of
34:34
Speaker 1: course there's like three They didn't find anything, so they
34:37
Speaker 1: just left around the pecan orchard. But there's there's no
34:41
Speaker 1: really record of that search. But supposedly the whole thing
34:46
Speaker 1: for this is to suggest that law enforcement somehow knew
34:50
Speaker 1: about um somebody could out there at a bomb fire
34:54
Speaker 1: and stuff. Confessination. We getting way out in the weeds here.
34:58
Speaker 1: You asked about st atute of limitations. Problem if the
35:03
Speaker 1: statute in a murder case, people, I'm not not murder,
35:07
Speaker 1: but about when it's about when um she was found,
35:13
Speaker 1: if law enforcement knew about it, Does the statute of
35:16
Speaker 1: limitation start then? Or are you trying to say, I'm sorry,
35:22
Speaker 1: I can't make sense of what the two of you
35:24
Speaker 1: were saying. You were saying, first of all, First of all,
35:27
Speaker 1: there is no statute of limitations. Uh. Statute of limitation
35:34
Speaker 1: simply means this, say I run into Walmart and I
35:39
Speaker 1: steal a set of towels. Okay, there's a statute of
35:44
Speaker 1: limitations during which I can be prosecuted on a theft
35:48
Speaker 1: by taking it's probably five years. After five years, if
35:52
Speaker 1: they don't get me, those towels are mine and I'm
35:54
Speaker 1: home free. That's a statue of limitation. But I think
35:58
Speaker 1: the question is when does that start? What? What if
36:01
Speaker 1: law enforcement didn't know anything about that? The off, when
36:04
Speaker 1: does that statute limitation start? This? Okay, first of all
36:08
Speaker 1: in murder, but this is about both I understand you,
36:15
Speaker 1: but are you telling me, the two of you actually
36:18
Speaker 1: telling me you don't think Bou had anything to do
36:22
Speaker 1: with it. They don't have the evidence on him, apparently
36:25
Speaker 1: we don't know because of the gag that right to
36:27
Speaker 1: a jury and let a jury decide. But together, he's
36:32
Speaker 1: only charged in ben Hill. He's not charged in Urban County,
36:36
Speaker 1: not for now with hiding the body, right, disposing the body. Yeah,
36:40
Speaker 1: what casilla evidence and hiding the body and all that
36:43
Speaker 1: is not right now, but that can be amenda. So anyway,
36:47
Speaker 1: the statute in hiding the body would likely start at
36:53
Speaker 1: the time of the murder. Now on hiding a body.
36:57
Speaker 1: The hiding hiding a body of course is not murder.
37:03
Speaker 1: But if you're charged with accessory to murder that they
37:07
Speaker 1: don't have that in Georgia. You know what, You're right,
37:11
Speaker 1: So he'd have to be charged with co defendant and
37:13
Speaker 1: have to be charged as a co defendant and murder.
37:15
Speaker 1: And I think that's what they're working on right now.
37:18
Speaker 1: I think that's what's going on behind the things, But frankly,
37:21
Speaker 1: I don't know what they're doing. Well. The Polae deal
37:24
Speaker 1: or the the he apparently had bow Bow Dukes had
37:28
Speaker 1: some arrangement with the district attorney the prosecutors to be
37:32
Speaker 1: a state witness. But is that still holding, Dr Godwin,
37:36
Speaker 1: I'll tell you I don't. I don't think so, because
37:38
Speaker 1: you know he was a ragin not too long ago.
37:41
Speaker 1: So Dr Godwin, you feel firmly that they have found
37:46
Speaker 1: enough of her body to prove a murder charge, you know,
37:51
Speaker 1: because often said if you don't have a body, you
37:54
Speaker 1: can't prove the case. That's entirely not true. But you
37:57
Speaker 1: believe they have found enough bone fragments to prove what
38:00
Speaker 1: happened to Terra. I believe that they are found enough
38:04
Speaker 1: remains to prove that it is Tera, to prove that
38:07
Speaker 1: it is Terra. And the fact that her bones are
38:09
Speaker 1: fragmented shows a lot where that comes from decomposition over
38:15
Speaker 1: the twelve years and to burning. You won't be no
38:17
Speaker 1: autopsy because there's nothing autopsy. The manner of death you
38:22
Speaker 1: have to base it on somebody's word. Not manner death,
38:24
Speaker 1: I mean the mechanism of death like smothering or stranglation.
38:29
Speaker 1: You have to just base it on Bow's word or
38:32
Speaker 1: or I don't know if Ryan said that or not
38:34
Speaker 1: in a confession. You're just gonna have to base it
38:36
Speaker 1: on that. Well, I'd hate to base anything or what
38:38
Speaker 1: these two may say. What is Terra's family reaction to this? Well,
38:43
Speaker 1: they're thrilled about the rest and they want the monsters
38:47
Speaker 1: to go to prison. And what do people in Oscilla
38:50
Speaker 1: think of this? Do they think they've got the right guy? Yes?
38:53
Speaker 1: I think the people have said of glad there was
38:56
Speaker 1: a rest, and I think they're glad. They'd be glad
38:58
Speaker 1: when this whole thing is overwhelm. Let me ask you this,
39:01
Speaker 1: do you think this should be a death penalty case?
39:03
Speaker 1: Because I I'm glad to hear that. I'm really glad
39:07
Speaker 1: to hear that. Now. Of course it have to move
39:09
Speaker 1: the case out of Oscilla, that's just given. The defense
39:13
Speaker 1: is going to ask for a change of venue. But
39:16
Speaker 1: when do you believe this will go to trial? A year? Mm?
39:21
Speaker 1: Hmmm a year? And do you think bou Dukes, the roommate,
39:26
Speaker 1: is ultimately going to give States evidence against Ryan Alexander Up. Yeah,
39:30
Speaker 1: he's got a problem with defense. He's got a problem
39:33
Speaker 1: because I mean the defense attorney he's got all the
39:36
Speaker 1: files now which were thirty ft that they were thirty
39:39
Speaker 1: ft long, the GBI files, and his heys was thirty
39:42
Speaker 1: ft long before their arrest. So he's got all those files.
39:46
Speaker 1: Now he's gonna try to get one person a reasonable
39:51
Speaker 1: doubt on that jury that Ryan did this himself and
39:55
Speaker 1: try to implicate BO. So with all he's posting, all
39:58
Speaker 1: his screenshots, he can be easily and me ask you,
40:01
Speaker 1: Dr Godwin, what would have made Ryan Alexander Duke do
40:06
Speaker 1: such a thing. If you don't believe they had a
40:09
Speaker 1: sex relationship, which I do not, why would he leave
40:14
Speaker 1: a party and go kill Tara Grinstead or try to
40:18
Speaker 1: assault her and then kill her. I think it's more
40:21
Speaker 1: like both of them were riding around and possibly saw
40:26
Speaker 1: her coming home. Yeah, that's right. Now, there might be
40:29
Speaker 1: another motive behind that, but I don't know it. So
40:32
Speaker 1: your scenario is that they're out riding around, they see her,
40:37
Speaker 1: or they go by her house. I mean she would
40:39
Speaker 1: have recognized Ryan Alexander Duke if he came to the
40:43
Speaker 1: door and that's all it took. Yeah, and you know
40:46
Speaker 1: there's been mentioned that he used a plastic card or
40:49
Speaker 1: something like that to jiggle around and get in into
40:52
Speaker 1: the front door. I don't believe that. Why why don't
40:54
Speaker 1: you believe that? Because even I can break into a
40:57
Speaker 1: door with my driver's license, but i'd I mean, first
41:01
Speaker 1: of all, her front porch light was on, and she
41:03
Speaker 1: had some Halloween declarations up. I mean, and you know,
41:06
Speaker 1: him drinking and stuff. He's standing there with a car
41:09
Speaker 1: trying to if she had a piece of wood in
41:11
Speaker 1: the molding the brick molding of the door frame and
41:15
Speaker 1: stuff all the way down on the left side. Did
41:18
Speaker 1: prevents you, So he would have to sit there and
41:20
Speaker 1: fiddle with this thing and elate at night and stuff. Uh.
41:23
Speaker 1: And do I don't believe that he got in some
41:27
Speaker 1: other way or he used a roost uh two and
41:31
Speaker 1: she opened the door. And you think this struggle went
41:33
Speaker 1: down in her bedroom. He believe I do too, because
41:37
Speaker 1: they have it in there. Yeah, they do. It's in
41:40
Speaker 1: the indictment. And you believe that he killed her right
41:43
Speaker 1: there in the bed that's hed put hit her body
41:48
Speaker 1: in his truck, took her body to a peaco orchard,
41:52
Speaker 1: buried it, burned it and buried it at some point
41:55
Speaker 1: they were in her car though at some point, at
41:58
Speaker 1: some point possible. Uh. But that's you know, I don't know. Uh,
42:03
Speaker 1: you know, it's there's a lot of nuances in this case,
42:06
Speaker 1: and stuff. But to me, in my opinion, Bow is
42:09
Speaker 1: the reason why that the body was in the pecan
42:12
Speaker 1: orchard that chose that location. Ryan did not go out
42:16
Speaker 1: there on his own and and and and dump body
42:19
Speaker 1: out there, and then then later come back and tell
42:21
Speaker 1: Bow later on in a couple of days later. Hey,
42:24
Speaker 1: you know, I just put this over your your uncle's land.
42:27
Speaker 1: I don't believe that at all. How do you think
42:31
Speaker 1: that this is going to play out? Dr Godwin? Well,
42:36
Speaker 1: I hope it goes to trial because uh, you know,
42:39
Speaker 1: inner and a plea and in reading that you know
42:43
Speaker 1: that short narrative, uh you know, and the judge reading
42:45
Speaker 1: it and stuff, and Ryan agree into it and signing
42:47
Speaker 1: off on it and stuff. Well, I think it would
42:50
Speaker 1: leave leave a lot of people hanging. So I think
42:54
Speaker 1: people in the family are are owed case information, and
42:59
Speaker 1: I think that's having a trial is the only way
43:01
Speaker 1: to do that. And um, so I think, um hopefully
43:05
Speaker 1: that this go to trial, and I think Ryan end
43:09
Speaker 1: up getting life without parole, and and I hope that
43:13
Speaker 1: that that bo gets a lot more, a lot more
43:17
Speaker 1: years than a one or two. Well why not the
43:21
Speaker 1: death penalty? Well, I'm not I don't think I don't
43:26
Speaker 1: know if he's this is a it's a definitely the case.
43:29
Speaker 1: We believe it, but I don't know if they've charged
43:32
Speaker 1: with him with that. So yeah, that I don't believe
43:35
Speaker 1: they've included avated circumstances. Yeah. Yeah, they probably took it
43:39
Speaker 1: off the table as a negotiating thing. Well, they haven't
43:43
Speaker 1: negotiated with Ryan Alexander Duke. I don't think. Uh, yeah,
43:48
Speaker 1: I don't know about that they have with bow Duke. Yeah,
43:51
Speaker 1: because basically, uh, that's the only thing we've they've got, uh,
43:57
Speaker 1: except you know, I don't know what the DNA on
43:59
Speaker 1: the glove is and we don't have a body to
44:02
Speaker 1: get sperm or touch DNA or with no soft tissue left,
44:07
Speaker 1: you couldn't get touched DNA anyway. Yeah, And they left
44:10
Speaker 1: the jeans, left the jeans in the in the bedroom.
44:13
Speaker 1: See where you have that belt. Uh, And I mean
44:17
Speaker 1: you know you can do touch DNA and stuff, uh
44:20
Speaker 1: from the genes of where you have to grab areas
44:23
Speaker 1: and stuff and and so what that stuff was left
44:26
Speaker 1: into the clothing was left into bedroom. But the cops
44:30
Speaker 1: got it. No, that's where No, that the clothing was.
44:33
Speaker 1: The genes were left in the bedroom as far as
44:35
Speaker 1: I know. Oh, dear Lord in heaven, where are the
44:39
Speaker 1: genes now? I think a lot of the stuff I
44:43
Speaker 1: win in storage and um and everything. You know, Dr Godwin,
44:50
Speaker 1: I really hate to hear that. And I don't want
44:53
Speaker 1: to trash the cops because they're doing the best they can.
44:55
Speaker 1: Yeah they are. But the g B I, the GB
44:59
Speaker 1: I should of a different approach during the first five
45:04
Speaker 1: years would have made a difference. And the least they
45:07
Speaker 1: should have had some type of a conference called a
45:12
Speaker 1: conference and and update ever five years or over three
45:15
Speaker 1: years or something like that, and they never did that.
45:18
Speaker 1: I think, I'll tell you what happened. But you know,
45:20
Speaker 1: they had a d n A and and d n A,
45:23
Speaker 1: a full DNA and stuff like that makes a lot
45:26
Speaker 1: of investigators lazy. So what they do. They don't really
45:29
Speaker 1: have anything else, so they just wait for a hit.
45:33
Speaker 1: With me is a renowned forensic psychologist who was hired
45:39
Speaker 1: by Tera Grinstead's family to try to find the truth.
45:44
Speaker 1: Dr Maurice Godwin with us as we wait for this
45:48
Speaker 1: case to go to trial, and they murder of a
45:53
Speaker 1: beautiful young woman, a beauty queen turned PhD candidate, Tara
45:58
Speaker 1: Grinstead by Nancy Grace. This describing stories Goodbye Friend,