Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Murder In Moscow: Bryan Kohberger, The New York Times And The Termination Letter

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Murder In Moscow: Bryan Kohberger, The New York Times And The Termination Letter · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. We've
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: heard a lot now about Brian Koberger and how he
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: was under investigation at Washington State University prior to, during,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: and after the murders were committed in Moscow. Well, we
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: have heard that from a lot of sources and now
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: the New York Times has an article out talking about
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: this very thing. So let's dive right into the article.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: And let's see what the New York Times is talking about. Headline,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: University investigated Idaho suspect's behavior around the time of the killings.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger had a verbal altercation with a professor and
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: was investigated over his behavior around female students before he
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: was charged in four murders. And to tell you the truth,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: it doesn't look good for Brian Kohlberger. Again, circumstantial. And
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: certainly not something I'd be willing to convict him over
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: if I was a juror. But when you look at
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: all of this evidence that is being compiled, for me,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: this is the most damning as far as what people
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: have to say about Brian Koberger. Because I really don't
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: care what he was up to when he was 18,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: 17 years old. Sure, it helps get an idea of
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: how he became what he became. But I think it's
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: much more relevant to take a look at how he
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: was doing leading up to these murders. and if he
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: was having altercations with his professor, and he was considered
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: a creep around women, that certainly fits with all of
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: the categories that we heard about previously to Brian Koberger
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: being arrested. Him being an incel, somebody who hates women,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: all of it tracks. This article was authored by Mike
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Baker and Nicholas Bogle Burroughs. The PhD student charged with
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: murdering four University of Idaho undergraduates displayed such troubling behavior
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: in the weeks around the killings that his university investigated
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: his conduct around women, counseled him over a verbal altercation
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: with a professor, and ultimately fired him from his job
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: as a teaching assistant, according to interviews and the university record. Now,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: you want to talk about spiraling? You want to talk
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: about being in an absolute freefall and bottoming out? This
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: is what we're talking about. Less than two weeks before
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  Speaker 1: the killings in November, the PhD student Brian Koberger was
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: called to a meeting with faculty members to discuss growing
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: concerns about his behavior, according to the record, a timeline
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: the university prepared in justifying its decision to terminate him.
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  Speaker 1: The meeting was part of a series of discussions over Mr.
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  Speaker 1: Koberger's conduct during his criminology studies at Washington State University,
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  Speaker 1: which lies about seven miles west of the University of Idaho. Now,
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  Speaker 1: if I'm the professor and this dude just shows up
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden has all of these behavioral
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: issues right away, we're talking about a month into this gig.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I would have sat him down that day and been like, buddy,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: you're done. There has to be a ton of students
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: out there that would literally do anything to have this
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: kind of position. And here's Brian Kohlberger with his whole
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: entire future set up for him and allegedly throws it
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: all away and goes and commits a quadruple homicide. The
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: faculty's concerns with Mr. Koberger grew in the weeks after
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: the November 13th killings, though he had not yet been
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: identified as a suspect. They culminated in the criminal justice
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: department's unusual decision to terminate Mr. Koberger from his teaching
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: assistant role in December, shortly before his arrest, according to
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: three people familiar with his time at the university, and
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: the formal letter was sent to Mr. Koberger informing him
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  Speaker 1: that he failed to meet the conditions required to maintain
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: his funding under the program. And there were some people
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: out there saying, well, he lost his job. That doesn't
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: mean he's going to go commit murder. But it wasn't
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: just losing his job, right? He lost everything. When he
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: lost his teaching assistant's job, he lost his way. He
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: has no way to pay for school now. He has
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: no way to continue his studies. So it's a big
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  Speaker 1: problem for Brian Koberger. And for you or I, it
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  Speaker 1: would be a gigantic setback, right? But we're not going
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  Speaker 1: to go out and commit murder over it. But when
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  Speaker 1: you have the kind of mind and you're wired the
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: way the government tells us Kohlberger is, it's a completely
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: different story and it doesn't take much to launch you
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: into orbit. The faculty made the decision at the department's
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: end of year meeting in December, during which professors were
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  Speaker 1: also told that some female students reported that Mr. Kohlberger
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: had made them feel uncomfortable. In one of those instances, Mr.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Kohlberger was accused of following a female student to her car,
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  Speaker 1: according to two people familiar with the situation who spoke
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  Speaker 1: on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized
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  Speaker 1: to discuss the case. And once again, for people out
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  Speaker 1: there who are not hip to how this works, a
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: lot of these journalists, a lot of these outlets have
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  Speaker 1: previous relationships with sources who are going to have information
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  Speaker 1: about this case, whether it's the FBI, a local police officer,
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  Speaker 1: a local prosecutor, whatever. There's going to be information that
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: gets leaked. And when you're an outlet like the New
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: York Times, you're going to have some sources. Now, I'm
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: not the biggest fan of the way the New York
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Times handles their business these days, but when they're running
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: something like this, chances are they have done their due diligence.
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  Speaker 1: And if not, all they're doing is digging their own
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  Speaker 1: hole deeper. Because like we've said earlier, there is a
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: big time distrust when it comes to the legacy media.
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  Speaker 1: And of all of the allegations against Koberger, besides obviously
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: the homicides, I think following girls to their car are
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: the biggest ones. What it does is it shows a
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  Speaker 1: pattern of behavior. It doesn't prove anything definitively, but it
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: shows that pattern of behavior that jurors are going to
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: look for. In the case of the female students, the
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: university's investigation did not find Mr. Kohlberger guilty of any wrongdoing,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: two people said, and it was other matters that prompted
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: the decision to eliminate his funding and remove him from
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: the teaching assistant job. That decision, they said, was based
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: on his unsatisfactory performance as a teaching assistant, including his
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: failure to meet the norms of professional behavior and his
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: interactions with faculty. Basically what they're saying is Brian Kohlberger
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: sucked at his job and he couldn't get along with people. Mr.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Kohlberger began having trouble about a month into the fall semester,
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  Speaker 1: his first at Washington State. He had an altercation on
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  Speaker 1: September 23rd with John Snyder, the WSU professor. He was assisting,
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  Speaker 1: according to the termination letter, a copy of which was
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  Speaker 1: obtained by the New York Times. Then on November 2nd,
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  Speaker 1: department leaders met with Mr. Kohlberger to discuss an improvement plan,
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  Speaker 1: the letter recounts. 11 days later, the four University of
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Idaho students were stabbed to death overnight in a home
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  Speaker 1: just off campus in Moscow, Idaho. So take from that
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  Speaker 1: what you will. And there's going to be people that
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: are going to look at it and say, no big deal.
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  Speaker 1: Doesn't mean anything. But for me, I'm trying to look
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: at it in the whole entire entirety of what we know.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: And when you do it like that, things lead into
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  Speaker 1: each other. And a lot of times for killers, there's
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: an incident in their life that sparks their murder spree.
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  Speaker 1: And for Kohlberger, this definitely could have been it. And
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  Speaker 1: this whole situation with the job certainly could have been
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  Speaker 1: that turning point where it went from fantasy to reality.
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  Speaker 1: In the termination document, officials described a second altercation that Mr.
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  Speaker 1: Kohlberger had with the professor after the killings on December 9th.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Later that month, the department decided to remove him from
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  Speaker 1: his position as a teaching assistant, cutting off his pay
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: and saying that he had not made progress regarding professionalism.
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  Speaker 1: Phil Wheeler, a vice president and spokesman for Washington State University,
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  Speaker 1: said a federal student privacy law prohibited him from commenting
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  Speaker 1: in detail on Mr. Koberger's history with the university. He
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: said only that Mr. Koberger was no longer enrolled in
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: the university. Mr. Koberger's lawyer, did not respond to a
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: message seeking comment on Friday. I don't know why they
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: continue to ask the lawyer for any comment. It's not
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: going to happen. She is not going to send any
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  Speaker 1: kind of information to you. There is a gag order.
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  Speaker 1: Koberger is being held in jail after being charged with
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: four counts of murder. He has said through his lawyer
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  Speaker 1: that he looks forward to being exonerated. The Times previously
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  Speaker 1: reported that students had complained about Mr. Koberger's harsh grading
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: in his teaching assistant role. resulting in a classroom discussion
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  Speaker 1: in which he sought to defend the feedback he provided
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  Speaker 1: the students. Mr. Koberger had entered the program at Washington
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  Speaker 1: State University after earning a master's degree in June at
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: DeSalas University in Center Valley, Pennsylvania, not far from where
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  Speaker 1: he spent his teenage years struggling with emotional problems and
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: drug addiction. Records show after the initial altercation with the
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  Speaker 1: professor on September 23rd, Mr. Koberger met with a university
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  Speaker 1: official to discuss the norms of professional behavior. You mean
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  Speaker 1: to tell me a guy with a master's degree that's
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: going for a PhD doesn't know the norms of professional behavior?
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  Speaker 1: What are you, 12? What are you, in the back
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  Speaker 1: of the room, picking your nose and talking shit while
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: the teacher is teaching you remedial math? What does that
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  Speaker 1: even mean, professional behavior? By October 21st, a professor emailed
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  Speaker 1: him about the way in which you had failed to
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: meet your expectations as a TA thus far in the semester.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Some of the details of Mr. Koberger's troubles and eventual
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: firing were first posted online by an Arkansas woman who
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: has closely followed the case. What? What does that even mean?
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: How does some woman in Arkansas get this information? This
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: case gets weirder and weirder by the minute, folks. The
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  Speaker 1: Idaho students were found stabbed to death in two bedrooms
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  Speaker 1: of the home on November 13th. Madison Mogan and Kaylee
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Gonsalves were both found in one room, while Zanna Kernodle
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: and Ethan Chapin were found in another. According to a
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: police affidavit, the three women all lived in the home,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: the police have said, and Mr. Chapin was visiting Ms. Kernodle,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: his girlfriend. The police said the killings took place around
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  Speaker 1: 4 a.m. For weeks after the killings, investigators did not
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  Speaker 1: identify a suspect. Records show that Mr. Kohlberger was still
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: working in his teaching assistant job at the time and
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: was continuing to grade undergraduate student papers. About a week
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  Speaker 1: after his second altercation with the professor, as the semester
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  Speaker 1: was drawing to a close in December, Mr. Koberger began
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  Speaker 1: driving across country with his father to the family's home
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  Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania. I'm convinced that Koberger knew what was coming
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  Speaker 1: down the pipe at this point, and he wanted to
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  Speaker 1: put as much distance between himself, the murders, and what
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  Speaker 1: had happened at Washington State University. Officials notified Mr. Koberger
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  Speaker 1: of his termination on December 19th, according to the university timeline.
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  Speaker 1: He was arrested at the end of the month. The
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  Speaker 1: authorities cited DNA evidence that appeared to link him to
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: a knife sheath found at the crime scene, video showing
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: a white car in the neighborhood of the crime scene
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  Speaker 1: that resembled Mr. Kohlberger's car, and phone records indicating that Mr.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Kohlberger's phone disconnected from the cell network during those key
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  Speaker 1: early morning hours. A judge has scheduled a June preliminary
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: hearing where prosecutors are set to lay out more of
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: their evidence. All right, well, I wanted to add a
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: little more clarification about this letter. And we had heard
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: about it from News Nation and other outlets. But with
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: the New York Times writing up this piece, I figured
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: we throw that bad boy in the catalog as well.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: That way we continue to build up that context. And
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the best way to do that is to be armed
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: with as much information as possible. All right, folks, that's
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: going to do it for this one. All of the
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: the description box.