Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Steph Paynes

Transcript

Steph Paynes · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Podcast. My
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: guest today is Steph Payne, guitarist and leading force of
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: the band les Zeppelin. Steph, good to have you on
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: the podcast.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Hey, thanks, Bob, it's fantastic to be here. Thanks for
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: having me.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Let's start from the beginning. Is Steph Payin's your real name?
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's my real name. But there is a small
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: little difference, and that is there's a why in it.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: When when I was born there was no why, so
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: it was P. A. N. E. S. And that's the truth.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: And you're the first one to hear it. But it's
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: a funny story, which if I go into it.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Well tell the story. We're here, We're here.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: This is all right, Okay, okay. It sort of ties
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: in because I put the Y in my name after
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: I moved to England the first time, which is a
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: long time ago, right after college, and I had found
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: myself working, you know, trying to be a big rock
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: star and make it and do all this stuff because
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: you know, British Invasion rock was my favorite thing. So
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: I thought I have to go to England. And while
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I was here, at that point, I started to write
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: for the music press, and I was writing for the
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: NME actually, and when I got my first story published,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: I realized, because I was paranoid about working without a
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: work permit, that if I put a Y in the name,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: they could not prove that it was me, because there's
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: a why in the name and all my passport there isn't.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: So that was my thinking and ever since it became
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: my name and it stuck. So there's a wine.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, there's a lot to unpact there, but I'm going
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: to go back to original theme. Les Zeppelin would imply
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: that it's an act of lesbians. What is the truth?
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, I knew you were going to get there. I
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: didn't think it would be second. I thought it would
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: be first. We have always had a don't ask, don't
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: tell policy since the beginning of the band. Lots of
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: reasons for that, but I figured I basically, in a nutshell,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: I'd get into trouble either way, So don't ask, don't tell,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: and we welcome speculation. We're fine with whatever anybody thinks.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: And people actually like to guess, so it's fun.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, you yourself have been married, have children, You certainly
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: have lived a heterosexual lifestyle, So the question because naming
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: it led Zeppelin, was that to gain attention or was
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: that because that was the easiest play on the name
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: led Zeppelin? How did you come up with it? Long?
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, I will tell you my mother came up with it.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Believe it or not. My mother, this is true. She
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: was an English professor, and she was fantastic with puns
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: and you know, writing. I mean, it was wonderful. She
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: used to write poetry and everything. But she was the
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: quickest person with a pun that I'd ever met. And
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: we were sitting around the table and I had already
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: started this, I mean, had this idea to start this band,
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: and I was gung ho, and we were trying to
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: think of names, and there were all sorts of really
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: bad names being put on the table as bands, do
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: you know, cover your tablecloth with bad names? And she
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: just turns to me and says, lez Zeppelin. Now, I
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: had never heard my mother even say the word lesbian
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: okay out loud. But it was the most brilliant thing
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: I ever heard. I just that was it. There was
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: no question in my mind that that had to be
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: the name of the band. And I think, honestly, I
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: think it's like the best band name ever. Maybe not ever,
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: but it's up there.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, for those people unfamiliar with les Zeppelin, how would
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: you describe the band?
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, it's you mean trying to describe led Zeppelin in
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: and of itself.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: And someone goes to a led Zeppelin show, someone listens
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: to your music, what are they getting? What is the
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: ethos of the band? What is it you're selling?
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, they will get a powerful, very passion very spontaneous
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: show that is all around the songs of led Zeppelin.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: We play the songs as they are written most of
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: the time, but we improvise where they used to improvise.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: And it's kind of an amazing thing because we focus
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: more on the spirit of the band, i would say,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: and the incredible combination of musicianship that made them who
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: they are, which is why this band has to be
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: so organic, because we are playing together as musicians like
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: they were and trying to achieve that special sort of
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: magical moment of intensity, and that really is our goal.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: And you know, sometimes I'll play a solo. I mean
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: a lot of the solos I play at this point
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: are you know, in Jimmy Page's style, but they're not
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: exactly what Jimmy played, and my hope is maybe he
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: would have played it at some point, but it's much
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: more evocative, I think, to.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Go for.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: That essence of the band, and I think people react
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: to it feeling like they've really been to a led
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Zeppelin show, much more than if we just copied everything
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: they played, which is frankly no interest to me.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: However, having seen the act, it's not like going to
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: see Bob Dylan today and saying, you know, he played
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: a song that's famous and I didn't recognize that. The
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: songs generally speaking, are very faithful to the originals.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, because you have to be. I mean, it's brilliant
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: music and you have to be faithful, like, for example,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: the Ocean. Well, let's take that song. It's kind of
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: such a perfect package. I never changed the guitar solos
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: for that. We never change the arrangements. But you know,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: we're only four people, so we play it live like
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: they played it, So our renditions are how they played
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: it live. We don't have extra people on stage to
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: fill all the guitar parts. We're not trying to replicate
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: the albums. But you know, a song like the Ocean
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: is very, very true to form. It'll sound like it
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: sounds on the record without the extra guitar tracks. It
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: sounds like they played how it sounded when they played
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: it live.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: But just to nail this down, what is different is
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: primarily is solos, etc. You're going to the show, You're
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: if you close your eyes, theoretically you say, okay, this
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: is led Zeppelin live. Yes, would you agree with that?
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's my goal. It works, though it succeeds.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: How'd you come up with the idea?
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Pow? Oh gosh, it's really kind of boring. It's boring, Bob,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: It's really boring. I mean, frankly, I just love the
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: music of Led Zeppelin. I mean it was a pure
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: act of indulgence. And I was between gigs. I had
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: spent a time playing with Ronnie Specter. That had been
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: my last gig, I guess, and I was in the
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: mood to really dig down and get intense with the guitar.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: I frankly hadn't really studied Jimmy Page. Before i'd studied
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Jimmy Hendrix, I'd studied a lot of jazz, I'd studied
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: other players, but Jimmy was fascinating to me, and I
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: really wanted to see if I could get into his zeitgeist,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: you know, So I thought, this will be fun. Why
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: don't I just you know, if I could be in
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: any band in the whole world, what would it be
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: led Zeppelin? So I thought, you know, I took the
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: leap like a little bit of an idiot and said,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: why not, let's just play led Zeppelin? And I sort
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: of set off to do it, and that was really it.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Just I figured, we'll play a gig once a month.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: I'll get a couple of girls together, because I knew
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: that it would be better with all girls, and maybe
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: we'll make fifty bucks and have a beer and it'll
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: be really fun and kind of get all rocks off.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: But once I started the band, it turned out to
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: be a much more work than that, way much more work.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: And then the level of interest in the group was immediate.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: This is twenty twenty four. I'm sorry, two thousand and four.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: It's been twenty years actually, and I realized I was
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: onto something.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Let's start with the work. You say it was much
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: more work? Can you go deeper there?
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, okay. First I had to find three other
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: people girls I wanted, girls I had been in one
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: other all girl band that was amazing and very powerful,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: so I had no doubt that girls could do it
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: and probably better. Where were they?
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Oh well, we just have to stop there for one second.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Why probably? Why probably better? Or was that just an
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: offhand comment?
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: It was kind of offhand, but it was kind of
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: the way I felt. I just my latter The one
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: all girl band I had been in was called one
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: nine hundred Bucks, and it was in the nineties, so
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: it was kind of like a Jane's Addiction kind of band.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: We were compared to them a lot, and we were
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: compared to and I'm telling you, Bob, it was the
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: most powerful band I've ever played in. And I've played
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: in a lot of bands with a lot of guys,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: not that they can't do it. There was just something
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: about that band and the intensity of it, So in
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: my mind, I had no doubt girls could do it.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Can they do it better? Well? Now I think that,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: But then you know, I think my band does it better.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I'm going to stop you for one second. Since led
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Zeppelin is an all male band, macho males here that
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: they can't use the word girls. They must use the
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: word women. From your perspective, What is your take on that.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Girls is fine with me? I don't. I have no
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: interest in that kind of semantic volleyball. And I would
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: take you to task on saying that led Zeppelin were macha,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: because I think they were pretty far from macho. I
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: think there was a lot of posturing and a lot
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: of sort of you know, peacock feathers, strutting and all
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: the rest, and it was very sexual. But if you
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: think about how led Zeppelin looked like girls kind of.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: If you think about the beautiful texture and dynamics of
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: their music, from gentle sort of Celtic folk through to
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: a whole lot of love or something like that, it
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: runs the spectrum. And I never consider it cock rock,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: as many people have said, or particularly macho, but somehow
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: it has that reputation. I mean, maybe you can explain it.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: No, I think those words came out of my mouth
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: and I was doubting. I'm good for you for calling
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: me on it. But let's go back to the narrative.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: So you say, Okay, I'm going to do this. First,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: I have to find three other girls. So what did
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: you do?
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: I just word of mouth. I just asked everybody and
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: I mean everybody, like people who were bankers, people who
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: were in restaurants. I was like hairdressers. I just figured
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: if I put the word out, someone will know somebody.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: And in fact, that's exactly how that band came together.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Somebody saying, oh, my friend, my hairdresser in fact plays drums,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: and my brother went to a party and called me
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: up and said, I think I found your singer like that,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: and that the drummer. I knew what the drummer from
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: the all girl band that I mentioned, and I called her. Initially,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: her name was Chip English, and she went off to
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: play with the Luna Chiics, if you know who they are.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: But Chip is an incredibly intense drummer, and she joined up.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: She was gung ho for about a month and a
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: half until she realized how much work it was, and
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: then it was I'm not doing this. This is too
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: much practicing. So I then, you know, found another drummer
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: word of mouth. But yeah, it was all sort of.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: It was a little magical, Bob, I got to tell
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: you a little bit dark and magical.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: From the moment you say I'm going to start looking
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: till you find the other three players. How long a
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: period of time is that.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: I would say about a month and a half, two months.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, So do you find the players? What's the next step?
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Practice? Practice, practice, practice. It's kind of like location, location, location,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, and this is the thing. It's not can
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: you play it technic glean? Okay, that's I mean, there
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: is some of that. There is a lot of that too,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: because it's crazy, some of some of Jimmy's riffs. I
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: mean they're insane, right, So there is that, But when
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: you begin to play the music, you realize how much
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: else there is, how many other little details and in
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: you and sort of musical innuendos and the feel and
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: the way you have to lay back in all of
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: those things and then play together. I mean, it's it's
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: a lot. And you know, I think once we started going,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: because we're girls and I'll say girls because we were girls. Yeah,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: because we were girls, I knew that we had to
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: be twice as good as any guys, no question, because
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: we would be met by instant skepticism, which we were,
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: so we really you know, wood shedded is that the term.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: We just practiced for six months until we dared to
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: play a gig.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Wow, So how did you decide you were ready.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Well, I think we got through a set list the
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: songs we could play. There was power in the band.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: I mean we'd go to a rehearsal studio and people
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: would sit outside the door and listen in, you know,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: including the guys that worked there. So we started to feel, Okay,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: this is cool. We got it. You know. We just
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: had to jump off at some point. So there was
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: also another little detail, and that is I was nine
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: months pregnant for our first gigs. Okay, yeah, so you
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: know how Jimmy holds the guitar sideways like I have
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: a side saddle. I was doing that. So I figured,
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: let's let's get in a couple of gigs before I
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: get this little creature out, and then we can go
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: gung home. So that we had to be ready at
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: some point to play a few gigs.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, you do a couple of gigs, you have a child.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: How long until you start playing again?
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: About a month and a half.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, very quickly. Okay, so yes, let's go back before
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: you have the baby. Tell me about the first couple
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: of gigs, how you get them. But the reaction is
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: how you experienced it.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: You know, we were a bit. It was a bit scary.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: But we played out of New York City because I
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: didn't want to play in New York City yet. And
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: there were these small clubs up in Connecticut because our
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: singer at the time was from Avon, Connecticut. So we
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: played this place called Sully's, and we played this place
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: called the Hungry Tiger, and they were small clubs, and
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: people went nuts, I mean instantly. And I'm telling you
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: those gigs were not very good. I mean, you know,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: by standards now, I mean there was a lot that
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: was wrong with the sound, if I'm going to be
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: picky and playing it correctly. But there was this energy
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: and there was a desire to see four girls playing
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: led Zeppelin. I mean it was just like everyone wanted
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: didn't see it. So the clubs were full and people
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: went nuts.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, especially today you're talking two thousand and four. That's
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: you know, when things really start to change from the
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: old music business to the new music business. Hey, you
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: formed the band, b rehearsed the band, See you're ready
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: to do it. How'd you get the gigs? Did you
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: personally call? Was there an agent? Was there a manager?
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: How did you get the gigs?
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Right? So? None of the above. Yes, I personally called
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: the singer called because she knew the guy at Sully's
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: or whatever. We had no agent, no manager, just the
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: four of us with lots of opinions, and it was
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: it was just like that, like any kind of baby
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: band starting out, super fun. We were so excited, you know,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: when a hundred people showed up and we made two
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: hundred and fifty bucks, I mean it was a lot,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: three hundred dollars or something. And within I would say
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: a year, we had an agent, and shortly after that
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: we were approached by managers the whole gamut, and it
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: was one point we had a business manager, we had PRP,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: we had everything. You know, it just sort of snowballed.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: But at first, now.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, you have the baby, you start playing again, Walk
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: me a little bit slower. How many gigs you're playing,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: How you get the agent, and how it starts to develop.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: So mostly at the beginning, it was maybe one gig
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: on a Saturday or Friday. Occasionally we would play. As
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: we progressed, we would start to play match them up,
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe we could play here and there. But
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: that really started to come a little later once we
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: had an agent. So they were kind of one offs.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Sometimes we'd have to stay in a hotel or something,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: but they were all fairly local. So we rented a van,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, like a mini van. I don't
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: even know if they exist anymore. It's an suv or something.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: But and we piled our stuff in and drove ourselves up,
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: played this crazy intense music for an hour and a half,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: then packed it up and drove home. So it was
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: a lot. It was a lot, but it was so rewarding.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, it started as a lark. When in your brain
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: did it turn into more than a lark?
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I think that pretty quickly. I realized that I had
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: something on my hands. You know, I've spent years previous
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: to this, early on in trying to crack the music business.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: I had a million original bands. You know. For a
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: while I was out as a singer songwriter, I was
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: playing another bands, and everyone was just trying to get
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: to that point where they'd even get an agent. When
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: les Zeppelin came out, everyone wanted to hear it. The
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: promoters did not even ask when I mean, they just
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: it was an automatic. Yes, it was sort of like
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: the easiest thing. And that was unusual. It was you know,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: when things are meant to happen, they just happened. There
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: was no resistance. So I realized pretty fast, Wow, this
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: is different. This has potential to grow a bit larger.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Did I think it would become what it actually became. No,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: not in a million years. I mean it's been twenty
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: years I've been doing this, and we've had unbelievable experiences
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: doing stuff that bands like ours should never have done.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: I think, but what are you talking about?
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Not never have done, not never have done? But would
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: ha had never done? Is what I meant? Like playing
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: major festivals like we played at the Metropolitan Museum of
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Art for the Play It Loud exhibit. We toured all
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: over the world, Japan, we released records in Japan. Eddie
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: krane Or produced our first record. You know, crazy surreal
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. And of course Jimmy came to our gig.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: It's just a lot of you know, Bonneroo. We played
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: at Bonnaroo and it was I don't think there had
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: been a cover band like ours at Bonnaroo ever, and
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: it was tens of thousands of people.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you start in two thousand and four, it's
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. Has this been a continuous forgetting COVID
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: which is its own world? Has this been a continuous upswing?
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Have there been ups and downs? And what is the
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: status of the act today?
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Ah? How much time do we have?
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Time?
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, No, it's lots of ups and downs, lots, you know,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: like anything. I mean, various things happened that that involved
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: just dips in the you know, we were soaring for
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: a while, and then it just seemed to settle down.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: And then I had a complete lineup change, and that
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: stopped me in my tracks. And I could have just
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: stopped at that point, except I didn't think we were finished,
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: so I had to get a whole new band together.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: That band was great. That continued for a while, So
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: I've had lineup changes along the way, and you know,
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: I think generally speaking, we've been very lucky to be
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: able to tour for twenty years and have audiences and
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: make money and continue in that, and that's never really dipped.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: It's just that it's sometimes it may have been a
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: little more you know, crazy and maybe popular than others,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: but a lot of stuff changed during the life of
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: the band, Like where you used to have newspaper articles
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: in radio, which we did a lot of. All of
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: that disappeared, and I think it took there was some
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: time to get used to how to operate in this
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: new sort of music business paradigm with online stuff and
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: social media, and you know, I think a lot of
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: people struggled. But we went through that change and it
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: you know, it was a little bumpy here and there,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: but generally speaking, we managed to work. Right now, this
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: band that's together has been together about six years, so
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: it's it's an incredible group. And you know, every lineup
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: had its beautiful qualities. I think this lineup was, without
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: doubt that best musicianship, no question, and it's very sophisticated.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, bands have arcs. Was the fall off in publicity
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: and radio because it was no longer a novelty or
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: was it a change in the marketplace?
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: Change in the marketplace? There were no radio stations. They
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: were dropping, dropping like flies. And if you toured somewhere
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: in the country, you know, used to try to set
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: up a studio radio thing you'd play, you know, going
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: to California or something and then talk about it. But
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: all of that stuff disappeared, you know, and newspapers it's
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: sort of nobody if they did stories. Nobody was really
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: reading newspapers much. So I think it was it wasn't us.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: We just had to figure out a different way to
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: market ourselves.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you coasting at this point or are you
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: continuing to market yourself in these alternative ways as we
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: used to say.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: We're We're trying, We're continuing. There was a learning curve,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: but yeah, we just we just kept plugging away. I'm
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: very stubborn. I'm a very stubborn person, and I don't
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: give up easily, you know, and I wasn't going to
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: let the entire shift of the music business, you know,
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: make me give up.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Well, okay, so let's start. Do you have a mailing list?
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: We did, but we now have a huge Facebook, Instagram,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: what else? A TikTok page we put out. You know,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: we do advertising. There is there is a following on
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: bands in town. We have people following it, which is
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: kind of a mailing list, so people can sign up
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: for that. But we don't really do direct mail as
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: it were, so much as we do these other things.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, who is doing the posting? Who is coordinating this?
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: Well? Right now we have we're so lucky to have
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: our wonderful jack of all trades and master of all
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Joan ch who is our bass player, keyboard player, mandolin player.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: She also plays a dozen other instruments. But she has
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: a degree in marketing and social media, so she's very
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: good at that, and she pushes us to make little,
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: you know, shout outs and do silly things and give
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: her materials so that she can post it. And we
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: also do advertising, and sometimes I hire social media people
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: to really plug a show, you know, and we do
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: our own advertising too.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: So so tell me about first. You said you had
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: to get a whole new band.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Why, Well, there were different reasons throughout the twenty some
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: odd years, but basically I think, you know, people sort
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: of run their course with a group, except for me,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: you know, the guitar player remains the same, I guess.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: But you know, this was my baby, so I don't
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: ever get sick of it. I don't ever, you know,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: feel like it's too much work or whatever that is.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: So there were some of that, but some of the
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: players got pulled away by other things. Like one of
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: our singers got a gig as a on Broadway as understudy,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: and it was great money and she took that, so
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: you know, I totally understand that, But then we had
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: to find another sing so it was things like that too.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of amazed that the band has lasted in
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: its sort of some form or this form for so long,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: because bands don't last that long. I think we're around
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: twice as long as Led Zeppelin actually were.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: So okay, focusing back on band members, did you ever
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: have to fire a band member?
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, once, I sort of didn't fire. I didn't fire
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: her exactly. I saw an avenue that I could take
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: to make her quit and it worked. She had already
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: quit five times, and I figured she'll quit again. There's
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: no question. If she makes this request and I say no,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: she's bound to quit again because all of us had
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: had enough. She was a little unstable and we'd had enough.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: So okay. So one can say it's your band.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's my band, but everyone who plays in
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: the band feels very passionate about it and they feel
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: like it's their band as well. Because that's the nature
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: of this music. You cannot play it without having that
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: exist on stage. You can't just have backup players doing
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: their bit. You have to be huddling in the middle
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: of the stage, staring at each other, throwing riffs back
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: and forth and being in the moment. And that is
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: a very intimate, involved way to play music. Far too
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: rare these days, but that's what it is, and that's
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: what I love most about it.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, do you split the money equally?
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: No, but I pay for everything.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Okay. Can you make a living on lives Zeppelin? Yeah?
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it depends on what you consider a living. Could
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: I could I find some very you know, cheap place
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: to pull up and maybe run the band? It depends.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, now it's super expensive to tour, so it's uh,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: it's challenging sometimes, but generally speaking, yes, this is my
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: this is my job.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: So if you're not living on a subsistence level, how
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: are you paying the bills other than lives? Zuppelin?
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Well, I've you know, I had, I owned an apartment
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: in New York City and you sold that. I had
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: help from my ex for a while. I uh, just investments,
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: being smart with the money, stuff like that. We've had
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: times when it you know, we'll play private parties or something.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: You know, the money vascillates. It's it's okay, you know,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: I make money as a musician. I'm lucky.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, the other three women, if you the band has
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: been together for six years, are they living on the
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: income from le Zeppelin or are they doing other things?
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: And what might they be?
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, everyone has They all have other things that they do.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: So Marlaine our singer, she's an actress and she does voiceovers,
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: so that's a big gig for her. She mainly does that.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: You know, this is the only band she's in at
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: the moment. Joan the bass player, she has a bunch
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: of other bands. And our drummer is I would say,
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: well the drummer where with Now she has a full
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: time job, but it's very flexible so she can work remotely.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: So everyone is secure. Plus they have good living situations.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: They have partners, and their partners are okay. You know,
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: they handle a lot too, So nobody in the band
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: feels desperate for money. It's a good situation to have
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: because it's not where everyone is up tight. This is
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: not enough money to play, and you know we're not
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: getting enough. I mean, you know, I'll take gigs where
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: I lose money playing, but you know, you keep a
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: band working, so it's okay. So I think everyone's okay
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: with it, and they're not totally reliant at.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: This point in time. How many gigs a year does
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: les Zeppelin do?
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: I would say we averaged thirty five to forty gigs
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: a year, give or take. It's mostly weekends.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: And is it waxed in Wane? Where were there other
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: years where you played more?
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Yes? Absolutely. I mean there were times when we were
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: doing European tours and we were out for a month,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: or we were in Japan, or we were in Australia,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: We've done you know where it was much more constant,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: lots more gigs and playing. You know, we had an
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: agent who was booking us like mad and that that's
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: really what you need. You know, someone's booking you like that.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: And I will say that when I started this band
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: and in the early days, there were not so many
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: of these other bands playing led Zeppelin. Now there are
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: a plethora of these bands. And it's sometimes hard to
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: described to promoters what the difference is aside from us
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: being all girls or all women as it were. They
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: don't really know, and some of them don't really care
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: because if they can just get people through the door
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: and buy alcohol whatever, you know, whoever gives them the
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: lowest price, but I was not dealing with that. Early on.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: We were much more unique in our just existence. Forget
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: about the way we played it, which I still believe
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: we are unique in that way. But there just weren't
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: so many of these bands, and it's made it tough for.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: So how do you actually get the gigs today? Do
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: you have an agent today?
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, we do have a great agent working for us.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: We are playing mostly theaters, and now that people know
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: who we are, the promoters know who we are, so yeah,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: it's it's good. But you know you have to book
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: it so that some other led Zeppelin band isn't down
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: the block on the same night. You know that's happened,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: and then you know it's crazy.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: Have you ever gone to see these other lads up
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: win bands and say, you know they're better than we are.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: No, you can answer that in a second. I've seen
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: the big ones.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: If your agent said, okay, I can book you on
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: one hundred dates this year, would you say set it up?
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: You say, oh, that's just too much work. I'm too old.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: I've been there, done that. I'm forty's pretty good.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: I'd say, what's the money? No, good question, Bob I'd
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: have to ask the girls what they wanted to do.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: You know, if they all were in, then I'd be in.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty game at this at this point, at any point.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: That's just you know. I love being on stage. I
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: love meeting people. I love the sound of the guitar.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: I just you know, I I can't see giving it up.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: It's just part of who I am. And I'm happy
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: to play. I don't know, I imagine myself not playing.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: So okay, let's go back to the beginning. Where'd you
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: grow up?
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: I grew up in Long Island, in a town called
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: Great Neck, New York.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: You see, your mother was a college professor. What did
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: your father do for a living?
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: So my dad was a publisher and he worked at home.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: He had his own business and he put out all
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: sorts of publications that they used to call employee relations magazines.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: He went to j school and this is what he did.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: So he had, you know, big businesses like Bloomingdale's or
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: a big you know, King Cullin, or he had a
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: lot of supermarkets and Hurts, you know, was a client,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: but he would put out their in house publications. So
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: it was kind of like a house organ You know,
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: for the employees to read, they'd read about themselves. They
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: have stories about what's happening in this store that store.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: And it was a good business. And he did the
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: whole thing himself.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: And how many kids in the family just too other
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: and myself, your brother older or younger, what's he up to.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: He's a little younger. And he was a violinist, very
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: serious violinist, so also a musician, and now he's writing
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: for television. He's writing US series for MGM. Plus if
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: you've ever seen The Godfather of Harlem, he's a writer
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: on that.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Okay. So if he's a serious violinist and you're a musician,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: was there music in the house. There must have been
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: some driving force if you're both into music.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: There was music all the time. I mean, my mother
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: was a pianist, but not any professional, but she wasn't bad,
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: you know, she was pretty good. And my dad loved
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: music but didn't play anything. He played stuff for us,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: like there was a lot of classical music mostly that
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: they liked. They did not like rock and roll. I
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: was on my own with that. But the one thing
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: that my dad played for me from when I was
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: a wee little child was Django Reinhart from as long
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: as I can remember. He loved Jango Reinhart, and I
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: grew up listening to that, and I still think he's
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: the greatest guitarist who ever lived.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: So what point do you start playing an instrument?
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Well, I asked for a guitar at five and got
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: it for my sixth birthday. So I played it a
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: little bit, and then I put it under the piano,
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: and then I took it back out from under the
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: piano at about eight years old and learned a few
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: chords and I was off. That was it?
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Well, a little bit slower. What do you you know?
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Did you take lessons? What was the music you were
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: listening to? How'd you learn how to play?
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: All by ear? No lessons?
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: So if you're eight years old, what are you playing?
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Oh? I was playing folky music like James Taylor. I
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: was getting into finger picking and beatle songs and stuff
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: like that. I was interested in. Yeah, and it was
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: fairly easy for me, you know, so, so I wasn't
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: frustrated with it, which is why I kept doing it.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: And at some point, when I was a tween, I
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: guess they called them a tween, I did go for
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: the summer, I went for two summers to this place
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: called the Guitar Workshop, which was out on Long Island,
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: and it was kind of this hippie commune of guitar players.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: No real rock and roll, but a lot of classical,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: a lot of finger picking, a lot of blues. And
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: there was one guy there who played jazz. And the
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: second I went for just the summer, it was kind
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: of like you know, the Guitar Institute. It was just
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: a cram eight hour day of playing different classes and
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: technique and ear training and stuff. And when I heard
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: this guy play jazz, that was it. I just signed
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: up for the whole jazz program and that's what I studied.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: So I did that for two summers.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: And you were how old when you do that?
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: I would say, thirteen fourteen.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's the summer. You come back home. What are
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: you playing at home? Are you interested in forming beans?
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: What's going on?
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to I'm just trying to be Joe passed.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: I was like, I wasn't forming bands really well. I
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: played in the high school jazz band. I was doing that.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: I played with a few kids who were into jazz,
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: but I was not playing rock, and I was not
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: doing that. I was a real jazz head, which is
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: funny but actually turned out to be really helpful later on,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: I think with playing led Zeppelin actually, But yeah, it
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: wasn't until I got to college that I started getting
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: into bands.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, you ended up going to Brown in Rhode Island,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: so one would assume you were a good student.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: I guess you could assume that, although you know, I
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: wasn't the greatest student in the world, but I was
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: good enough, and I had a lot of, as they say,
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: other things on my resume, as it were. I'd worked
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: on the hill on Capitol Hill for two summers for congressman,
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: which nobody did in high school. And I did that
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: in high school. And I was a writer, so I
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: could I still actually writing is the other thing I do.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: So I could write my application pretty well. And I
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: just had these and then I had jet you know,
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: I had the guitar play. I just had a lot
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: of different things, and it appealed to that to schools,
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: as it were. But yeah, I was all right, My
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: grades were all right.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: How'd you end up working on Capitol Hill?
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Well, there was a congressman in our town that my
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: parents had helped write some of his campaign speeches. It's
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: a Democrat from New York called Lester Wolfe, and we
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: met one day. I mean I got introduced to him,
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: actually at a temple. He went to the same temple,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: and I just asked him and he said, yeah, your
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: send me a letter. And I did. I sent him
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: a letter and I got in and then I loved it.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: They loved me. So I went back the next summer.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, today, are you disillusioned with politics or you think
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: there's a future?
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, I'll tell you. I just kind of stopped
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: reading newspapers or listening to anything for a good long while.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: But now I'm like a political junkie again. I just can't.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: I can't not check in with it every hour or something.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: But it's a good question. I think it's a really
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: dark time. But one thing I will never forget. When
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: I was an intern on the Hill, sometimes the interns
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: got to go to these presentations or speakers would come.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: And one of the speakers who came to speak to us,
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: he was already quite sick and was fairly old at
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: that point, was Hubert Humphrey. So I'm dating myself a little,
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: but Hubert Humphrey came and talked to all the interns,
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: and I'll never forget it because he said, sort of,
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: this thing goes. Don't lose hope in this country or
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: in this system. It's going to seem like at times
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: when it's beyond help, but you've got to believe in it.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: It is a good system, it does work. Don't lose
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: hope in it. And I remember that. I'll never forget
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: it because I thought, Wow, that's a guy that could
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: have easily lost hope in it, because you know, he
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: lost a bunch of time. It was very frustrating career
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: for him. So I have to believe that it'll come
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: back around.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, So you go to college. Do you have any
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: idea you want to make your living in music? What
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: are you thinking when you go?
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Well, I was sort of I was kind of hedge
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: in my bets a little like I majored in international
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: relations because I was interested in all that stuff. But really,
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: deep down, I just wanted to be a rock star.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'll just say it, that's what I wanted.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: It sounds childish, but that's was my dream, you know.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: So at the so I sort of set off to
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: do it after I graduated.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: Before you graduated, you say you started playing in bands
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: in college. Tell us about that.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: Well, I played. I played in a sort of new
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: wave band. It wasn't very good, but we thought we
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: were good. And you know, we wrote all the music.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: We did some covers like I don't know Joe Jackson
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: covers or what else did we do? Even Born to
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: Be Wild. We had a weird mix of things. But
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: we looked amazing. We really looked great, Like we had
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: the coolest looking people on the campus, without doubt. But
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: you know, black leather pants and spiked heels and I
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: was the only girl that one of our players had
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: a bouffontaire do I mean? We really look good. We
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: sounded eh. But all those guys went off to law
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: school after I wanted, you know, let's let's try it,
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: let's try it, but they just they all went to
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: law school. So that's when I graduated. I went to England.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, a little bit slower. You're a girl.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: There's a lot, there's a lot, Bob, Yeah.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're a girl. You say in this band, you know,
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: we hear all about sexism, opportunities. You're a guitar player.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Did you find you know, obstacles in your way or
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: you just another guitar player and you found opportunities.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: I have to say that in that environment, certainly, at
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: a school like that, there wasn't sexism, not overtly, not
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: from my bandmate. I was the lead guitarist. There was
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: another guitar player, so no, and I was the guitar
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: player in this stage band. That was just an audition.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: It was later and before it's certainly in high school.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: I had to prove myself and you know, everyone assumed
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: I couldn't play. And there was tryouts for the stage
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: band in high school, and some snotty kid was, hey,
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: you could play rhythm and I'll play lead, and I
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: just sort of looked at him like, well, all right,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: we'll see. And sure enough, you know, the audition came
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: and came around and he took his solo and it
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: was all blues and not even good blues over jazz changes.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: And then I just sort of, you know, laughed to
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: myself in my seat because when it came to me,
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: I knew how to play jazz, so I was, you know,
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: da nadauata and his face was just so things that
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: happened a lot, but not at school a little later.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: Even in England, you know, there were some of it,
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: but it didn't stop me. I mean I figured out
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: just they'll hear me play and that'll be that end
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: of conversation. So I wasn't deeply affected by it.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, you graduate from college, you see, my goal is
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: to be a rock star. Yes, so tell us about
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: why you went to England, what the path was, what
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: was in your head and what actually happened.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, so much to my parents' chagrin to take
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: that beautiful degree and go to England to be a
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: rock star. Fine, you know, but they were very look,
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: they didn't like the idea, but they supported it once
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: I was determined and they knew they weren't going to
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: stop me. So I came over all by myself with
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: a Les Paul in a hardcover case, schlepping it around
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: because it was heavies and a suitcase. And I had
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: a friend who was here because I had done a
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: semester abroad in political science with a program with the
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: London School of Economics. So I did make a friend.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: I stayed with her for a while and then I
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: found a cold water flat somewhere and started auditioning for bands,
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: and I also had a few letters of introduction so
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: that I ended up working for a literary agent part time,
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: so there was a little money coming in, so that's
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: what I did. I joined a band and it was
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: a super progressive, crazy intricate band with two scotsmen and
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: I think it was called The Death's Heads Piano Players
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: or something, but it was in German. Why I joined
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: this band, I don't know, but it was very challenging
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: and it got nowhere. So eventually, on that along that path,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: after about a year or so, I did start it's
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: a story, but I did start writing for the music
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: press and I became a rock journalist quite seriously, and
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: that kind of became my second track for a good
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: long while. So I was running for the enemy as
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: a freelancer. And what year we in, Well we're in
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: the eighties.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we're in the eighties. You're writing for the memy.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: What's happening with your goal to become a rock star?
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: Well, that band fizzled out, That was no good. So
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: I ended up in you know, another band or that
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: had promise but was again it's one of these stories.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Where it implodes because the people are so nuts. We
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: actually had some sort of publishing deal with CBS, but
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: we went to make a record and that the singer
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: showed up and he was so drunk he could I mean,
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: he just couldn't sing. And the producer, who was Bruce
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Thomas from Elvis Costello's band, Yeah, he walked out on
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: the session because this guy was such a clown. Got
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: we got him back, but it took some doing. But
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: that just you know, that didn't We played a few
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: big gigs and opened for some people, but that also
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: went puff. And then what happened is I was writing
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: a lot, but I needed a work permit and the
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: nmy said that they would get one for me. So
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: I left the country because they had to stay out
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: of the country for a while, you know, And at
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: that time it was tough in England. You know, they
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: were really crunching down on people coming over and taking
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: jobs and it was I was a little paranoid about that,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: so it was hard to get in. People were questioning
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: you all of that. So I stayed in the States
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: for a while waiting for this work permit, and basically
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: it never came through. So I stayed in New York
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: City doing what writing, Mostly writing. I played in a
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: few bands here and there. I started to play myself
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: as a singer songwriter. I was kind of sick of band,
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: so I went out kind of Billy Bragg style, you know,
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: just with a guitar, guitar and my vocal and I
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: wrote a bunch of songs, a whole bunch of songs,
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: and I kind of played around New York City, mostly
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: to very few people. And I had, you know, promises
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: from this guy and promises from that. You know. It
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: was that kind of thing. And didn't you know, I
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: had my own band, I had other bands, and I
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: just did that for years. But then there got to
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: be a point when I kind of got sick of
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: I really I burned out on it. It was too
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: much rejection. I had too much energy. The other band
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: people were too unreliable, and I just kind of stopped
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: for a couple of years. I put my guitars in
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: the closet and I stopped, and I started on a novel,
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: which I wrote. But then I saved by Joey Ramone
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: who called me up. And I hadn't played the guitar
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: in a long time. And Joey liked my playing because
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: he had seen me with that all girl band I
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: mentioned before, and he was looking for a guitar player
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: to join Ronnie Spector's band because he was working with her,
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: and he thought I'd be good because he wanted youth
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: energy in her band rather than just side musicians. So
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: I flew to Yeah, I flew in, and I was
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: living in California at the time, actually in San Francisco
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: with my boyfriend who then became my husband, and I
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: played with Ronnie for a couple of years. It was
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: fantastic and I was so happy playing. It's like it
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: was like a gift. I had been given this gift
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: of music again that I could play and be happy
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: and not worry about if I was going to get
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: a record deal, and not worry about this, and just
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: have fun on stage. And it was really fantastic. And
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: I think that that whole experience sort of fed this
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: les Zeppelin thing because I just wanted to do it
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: out of pure joy and love with the music. That's it,
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: that's all. I had no other agenda and no other plans,
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: and I think that's why it worked.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, you graduate from college, you want to become a
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: rock star.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: Ultimately, that sounds so cliched, Bob oh no no.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: No headline, no no, no. People don't understand it. Most
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: talent is fifty percent the raw desire, you know, and
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: especially someone who's educated. Whatever. I mean, it's a dream.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: But my question ultimately is when you decide to put
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: the guitar back in the case, how how hard was
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: it to give up the dream?
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: Impossible? Nearly impossible. That's why I wrote a novel. I
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: had to funnel it into something else that I did
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: that was creative that I loved. And I hadn't written
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: a novel before. I'd written lots of stories and some
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: short stories and stuff, but I just dove into that.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: It was like trying to get over a death. I
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: know that sounds really sort of hyperbolic, but it was
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: like something died and I just didn't know what to do.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: So I wrote, and that was the tonic. It was
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: the only tonic for me. Really.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: How old were you at that point and what ended
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: up happening with the novel?
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, I can't tell you how old I was, but
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: you can guess, but you know old enough the novel.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: I had an age four it's a pretty good novel.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: I mean I did get a very you know, fairly
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: good literary agent and she helped me head it edited
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: a little, and she sent it out. She didn't send
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: it out a lot. She sent it out maybe two
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: eight to ten publishers and they liked it, but no
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: one bit. So the novel is still waiting to be read,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: and I will. I will get it out there at
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: some point, but I'm working on another novel now, so
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: I'm focused on that.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: Okay. At this distance, do you still feel as positive
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: about the novel or you say, now there was some distance, Well,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: it really wasn't that great.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: So I'm very, very very hard on myself with everything
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: I do. I mean writing less so, but I was
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: very hard on myself with my guitar playing hard. I
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: still am. I think it's a good novel. I let
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: someone read it recently and she really loved it, so
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: I think it's I think it. My mother thought it
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: was a great novel, so I'll take.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: That, okay. And what was it about?
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: It was about it was kind of a dual story
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: of well, it's a first novel, right, so there's a
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: little bit of you know, life experience in there. But
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: it's about a girl who finds that who's in a
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: mental institution because she's driven crazy by her pursuit of
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: being in the music business. Yeah, it comes in, It
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: comes in big time. But it's also about one of
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: the nurses in the mental hospital and her whole life,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: and the two of them interact and the nurse in
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: a nuts. The nurse is bereft of any intense, beautiful,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: adventurous experience, and she starts to feed off this patient
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: who tells her all these stories and she gets very
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: into it.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, we're in this story. Do you meet the gentleman
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: that becomes your husband? And how hard was it to
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: move to San Francisco And what was that like?
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I met him. You will laugh at this.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: I will meet him. While I was writing for the Enemy,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: and I was in New York and I was sent
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: to review or I pitched it one or the other.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: I was set to review a gig by the Dead Kennedys,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: who were playing in New York City. Okay, so I
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: went to this show which was at this place called
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: the World, and it was crumbling. It was like a
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: crumbling ballroom and I was standing at the back and
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: coming up the steps and the banister. It wasn't me
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: who did it, but the banister behind me at some
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: point fell off the wall like and just like half
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: the wall fell down, and this was one of the
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: guys that went to rush and help with it. I
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: saw him. He looked like someone I knew, so I
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: was kind of looking at him, and he looked back
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: at me and we just started talking. You bought me
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: a ginger ale.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: So how did you end up moving to San Francisco?
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: Well, so this guy, you know, we were friendly. He
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: was very easy going at the time, and it was
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: it was nice and we'd go to gigs and stuff
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: like that. So we were compatible in that way eventually.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: And I have to say this, it's when you live
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: in New York. A lot of relationship decisions are made
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: because of apartments, like who can afford an apartment by
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: themselves and who needs a roommate? And if you happen
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: to be seeing somebody and you need an apartment, which
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: is what happened, you are then thrust into this mega
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: decision do I move in with this person? And you know,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: everyone knows once you move in with someone, it's pretty
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: hard to move out, So that's kind of what happened
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: to us, and we just stayed together and we didn't
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: get married or anything. But he was a union organizer
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: or would be, and he did that for a while,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: and then he went back to college to finish his degree.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: He never had his degree. Smart guy, but never So
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: he went to Columbia, got his degree, did so well
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: that he got into law school. And the law school
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: he got into was Stanford, and I thought he should
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: go to Stanford rather than Chicago. I don't know if
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: that was a good choice, but San Francisco was nicer
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: weather than Chicago. I think I was more interested in
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: being there, and he let you know, so we went there.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: That's how I ended up in California and stayed there
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: for a while.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, when you're playing in Ronnie Spector's band, are you
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: living in California or do you move back to New York.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: I was.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: I was going living in both places. I would fly in.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: My parents had an apartment that they in the village,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: and I could stay there. So I had a way
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: to do it. And I wasn't making any money because
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: you know, he was not going to be her manager,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: was not going to pay my airfare, and I didn't
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: want to make it seem it was too hard for
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: me to do the show because I was having so
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: much fun and it was such a gift that I
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: just wanted to play. So I'd fly myself back and
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: forth and basically break even, but it was super fun.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: So I was kind of by coastal.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: How long did you play for Ronnie Specter and what
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: did you learn there?
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: I played with her for a couple of years and
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: we had a couple of amazing shows. We played at
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: a G eight conference for like the leaders of the
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: Western world. That was amazing. You know, Bill Clinton clapping
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: to be my baby. It was just something to behold.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: We went to Japan, just a lot of fun stuff.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: I learned a lot from her. We had some gigs
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: here and there where they were small clubs, and you know, Bob,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: you know how big a star she was. She was huge.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: The ronettes were huge, And there she was in some
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: club where she had a change behind a screen or something,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: and it could not have been fun for her to
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: do that, but I'm telling you, when she got out there,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: no matter where she was, she gave it everything and
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: she was amazing. Her voice was still amazing. She gave
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: it people a show and she turned up and I
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: just thought, damn, you know, that's that's a big lesson.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: Doesn't matter who's it out there, you just that's your
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: job and you do it. And she was a real
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: show person, you know, she was great. So I learned
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: about that too, how to work a stage a little,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: So how did that end?
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: Well, we went to Japan, and after that I kind
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: of was getting the feeling that they were sick of
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: being uncertain and flying, you know, worrying whether I could
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: fly from here or from there because I had a
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: fly you know. So they wanted a more New York
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: based band, and they probably wanted to pay somebody less,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: to be honest with you whatever. And coincidentally, I was
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: pregnant the first time, so it all worked out. I
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: was done with it anyway.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: So how'd you end up back in New York?
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: Well, I thought it would be better to be in
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: New York to be because I had this amazing little kid,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: and my parents had no grandchildren, and I missed New York.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: San Francisco was you know, not doing it for me.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: I was done. I was over. It wasn't mine.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: Yet yes, but you're involved with this man who's going
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: to Stanford law school. As he moved back to New York.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, he was done. He was done with law. With
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: law school. He was working in a firm, and he
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: got a job at a big New York firm, which
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: didn't last long. But that's what happened. So he was willing,
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: although I think he didn't. I think he didn't really
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: want to leave. And I think that that and I
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: kept asking him because I could tell, but he consisted
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: he was fine. But I think that was one of
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: the reasons our relationship sort of went a different way.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: He should have stayed.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: Who blew the whistle? Ultimately him? Were you?
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: I think you know.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: It was no, never mutual.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: No, but we grew apart. We grew apart. I probably
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: realized at first. He realized it pretty quickly and even
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: said it to me. So I don't know how to
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: answer that question.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: It was important. Yeah, yeah, So are you having this
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: child sitting steering in four a wall saying God, I
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: got to do something. What is the genesis of the thought?
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: And then why is it led Zeppelin?
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, this is the great, great, great question. So without
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: trying to be too wordy. I have a problem with
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: that sometimes. I never wanted children, ever, not interested. In fact,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: I kind of thought it was a feminist thing, like
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: women were destroyed by children they'd have. I had friends
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: that went to medical school and business school and then
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: they had a kid and threw it all out the window.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: So I was frightened of that whole thing. I thought,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: you become some sort of zombie, a kid zombie, and
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: that's it. Everything is, all your interests are gone, your
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: life is over all you can about is this toddler
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: or something. So it never interested me. But at the
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: end of the day, I think I felt, do I
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: really want to go through life without any kids at all?
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: And I wasn't sure. So not being sure was the sticker.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: The fact that I wasn't sure meant I either had
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: a move or it be made. This is the decision
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: would be made for me. So I said, all right,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: we'll see what happens. Let's just see, and bingo, that's
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: what happened pretty fast. So I was frightened to death
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: when I you know, when I realized I was going
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: to have this kid, I was scared because I thought
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: this was going to happen to me zombie land. Well,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: guess what I have this little guy, and I have
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: to say he was a great zen baby. He was amazing.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: But I did not feel trapped. In fact, lo and behold,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: the exact opposite happened. I felt empowered by this thing,
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: totally more empowered than I'd ever felt. So I would
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: have to say that just to cut to your question. No,
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: I I was thoroughly enjoying my kids, but also empowered
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: to do things that I wanted to do, and I
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: felt I could do them both. It was a lot
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: of entery, it was difficult, but I did do them both.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: So No, I wasn't staring at four walls. I was
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: totally engaged. It's just that this thing was still there.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: I wanted to do it, and I felt good about
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: everything I fell. Oh, I'll cut a bunch of things out,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: like spending time with people who don't interest me, and
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: I'll form a band. You know, it's like you sort
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: of have to give and take a little.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, how long from that thought until you settle on
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: the concept of leeds Zeppelin.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: Well, let's see, my first was about three and we
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: were in New York, so he was two and a
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: half two and a half ish three, so we were
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: pretty settled in you know that we had some help.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: So it seemed like I could go play a gig.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: Why not play a gig on a weekend. And you know,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: my partner was very he was supportive. He wasn't threatened
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: by it or anything. He thought why not. It was
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: so it was supposed to be some little, you know,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: fifty buck a week, you know thing or fifty buck
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: a month, little escapade where I'd have to work really
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: hard to practice, but it would be fun. And then
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: it turned into something more. And then you know, I
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: had to decide whether I was going to keep doing
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: it or bow out because I had kids. But I
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: didn't bow out. I thought, why bow out, I'll just
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: take them with me, or I'll work around it, or
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: I'll go weekends. It didn't occur to me that I
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: couldn't do it all, I guess, and I think a
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: lot of people make that assumption. They think, oh, I
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: can't do that because I have kids. It's like, well,
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: sure you can. You just you know, you have to
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: have the energy to do it, but sure you can.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of how it was. Really.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: So you decide you want to do something. Do you
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: decide on other things or is it immediately less Zeppelin?
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: Well, this was the thing that was. I just wanted
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: to play. I had the itch to play, so that's
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: why I went in that direction. I wanted to not
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: at that point be Jimmy Page that came later, but
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: I was enamored of his let's just say genius and
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: I wanted to get those riffs. I wanted to dig
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: into what he was doing, which was so encompassing of
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: so many things. That's all I just wanted to play.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, you decide you want to play. It could have
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: been a Beatles cover band, could have been an e
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: Loo cover band. How long and what was the process
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: signing no, it's going to be led Zeppelin or was
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: that a very.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: First Okay, so no, it couldn't have been any of
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: those others, because I know this is going to sound weird.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: I had no idea what a tribute band was. I'd
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: never been in one. I didn't know they existed. To
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: be honest, I know that it's only after I started
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: this band that another tribute band wrote I don't consider
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: us a tribute band, which we can get into in
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: a minute, but wrote to us saying, hey, welcome to
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: the world of tribute bands or whatever it was. And
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: I was horrified because this was not what I had
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: in mind. I did not decide, oh, I'm going to
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: play someone's music and go out there and maybe make money.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: What music can I play? It was totally the reverse.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: It was like, I just want to be in led Zeppelin.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: That's it. Okay, okay, so you were a led Zeppelin fan. Yeah,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: how did you become a led Zeppelin fan?
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: Well, honestly, it wasn't until a little later, or I
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: was not. I had some of their albums growing up,
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: but I wasn't a huge fan until I don't know,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: I guess maybe thirty in my thirties or something, when
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: I was starting to get more exposed to their music
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: through some band members, and I just couldn't believe. And
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: then and then I started listening to it, and my
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: mother in law bought me the box set for Christmas,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: and that was it for me. You know, all the albums.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: That was the rabbit hole. I just I just fell
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: into the rabbit hole and I just thought, you know,
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: this music is kind of a lot better than everything
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: else I've been listening to I've been playing, it's just
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: a lot better. And I just was absolutely hooked. And
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: that's what and I became more obsessed with it.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you get these other three girls together. LED's
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: up when not all their music sounds the same? How
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: do you decide what you're gonna play?
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: Ah? Good question. Well, some of some of it was,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: you know, let's start with the basics, let's let's let's
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: take the canon and do this sort of necessary songs,
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: and then you had to look at them and see
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: if it was possible to do now. Luckily, and this
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: was a bit of magic just when I was starting
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: this band, that How the West was one CD and
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: DVD came out. It was like a godsend because the
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: DVD was like a playbook literally to how they were
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: handled it as four people. So I I could see
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: what lines Jimmy picked to play out of the ten
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: guitar layers. We could see how they finished songs that
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: trailed out on a record, what do they do? We
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: had this whole guy set before us, like you know,
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: the Book of Mormon or something, so that was really handy.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: So a lot of the songs we started with were
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: those songs that we could sort of have a guide too,
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: but it was a pretty basic setlist and if we
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: found stuff was too hardly, you know, like we didn't
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: start off playing four sticks or Achilles Last Stand or something.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: We got to that eventually, but much later.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, As you say, you're a four piece and always
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: have been without extra players, how hard and how long
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: did it take you to learn to play those parts?
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: You know, you're carrying almost a complete band. It's essentially
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: a trio with a lead singer.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: That's right, and I've always loved that. You know, Cream
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: was my other favorite band. It is it's basically a
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: power trio, which means the guitar it's totally naked. I
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: mean you're playing solos over just bass and drums most
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: of the time. There's no rhythm guitar, there's nothing, there's
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: no safety net man, nothing just out there and it's formidable.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: But you know, that's what got me, That's what intrigued me.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be that kind of play. I wanted
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: to do that. It was. It was hard, though, it
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: took me just I don't know if I could put
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: a time on it, because I think I'm still learning
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: to be honest with you. But I think about five
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: or six months before I felt I could really step
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: on a stage and deliver something with integrity. I didn't
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: want to just play it. It had to have integrity
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: in its other dimensions. So maybe six months and then
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: it took a few years of really digging down to
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: keep getting better and better and better. But I've watched,
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: you know, my own playing change, and you know, it
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: would stay at a certain level and then leap up
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: a little, and then leap up a little. So it's
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: just kind of like that. That's the way it is.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: And I still think I can get better, you know,
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: I'm hoping.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know, today we have the internet that goes
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: deep into how they made all these records, but you're
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: starting before that becomes a really big thing. I mean
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: you're listening to the records. Yeah, to a degree, you
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: have how the West was won, and you could see
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: what guitar is playing, But how do you figure out
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: how to actually replicate those sounds with the guitar, with
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: the effect, with the amps, with all the other elements
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: that go in.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: Ah that honestly, by ear, I sat there like an
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: bloodite with the CD or the record or there was Spotify. Well,
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: I don't even know what it was on. I could
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: get it somewhere. I don't remember how I kept repeating it,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: but I would literally sit and repeat it and play
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: it and backwind and replay it, and you know, just
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: over and over and over, and then I'd start to
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: hear something different in it, so I'd realize, Aha, there's that,
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: and aha, there's that, and he's wiggling the note here
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: not there. Like it was all just literally by ear
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: and a little bit by watching. But you know those
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: videos that they're not all on his fingers. You can't
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: learn it by it's all over the place. So and
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: I used a little bit of tablature to get me oriented.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: But a lot of the time the tablature is wrong,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: so you listen to it and it's like, no, that's
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: not it, you know. But that's how I play by ear,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: And it's very old fashioned, but I think it's the
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: way that Jimmy Page learned to play or and Eric
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: Clapton and all those guys. So it was kind of
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: in the style of what they did. It was really
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: not very technical technically, going.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're learning by ear since you went to this
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: summer camp for two years. Did you learn how to
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: read music?
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: Well? Not really. No, I can't really read music. I
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: can read a little piano music on the right hand,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: because I took some piano lessons when I was little.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: But maybe if I really tried to get it back,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: I could read a little. But music on the guitar,
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: like if it's not tab, it's just insanely hard because
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: there are so many positions for the same notes, and
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: that would be useless to me, absolutely useless. The TAB
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: I could get through a little bit, but I don't
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: read it that well either.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, how much equipment do you need to replicate Jimmy
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: Page's sound? I mean he had the last ball, he
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: had the Gibson with the two necks. How much did
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: you need and how much do you have?
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: So this is kind of a trick question. As I said,
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: I had the basic thing. I did not have all
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: of his stacks. I had one martial amp. It was
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: a JCM eight hundred because I could overdrive it. And
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: I do have a Plexi as well, but it's it
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: doesn't have a master volume, and it's just way too loud.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: And to get Jimmy sound, it has to be way
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: too loud. I mean, it's got to be up at eight.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: I know what his settings are, and it's just and
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: his amp was more beefed up, so you're not really
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: going to get that tone he's going to get unless
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: you can do that. So you have to just sort
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: of get as close as you can by overdriving it.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: But you can't overdrive it that much because he didn't
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: play like modern guitars. He didn't play with all that
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: dirt and overdrive, which basically means you can play with
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: your left hand and you don't even have to pick
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: the note. You know, most modern guitarists are so in
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: this sound sort of whirlwind that it's just a very
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: different tech style. I mean, Jimmy was playing all of it.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: It's super hard. So you've got the amp, and I
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: just copied what he had, which was not much. It's
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: basically a wah it's I had like this Kate. I
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: had this Klon type pedal to push it a little,
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: a Phase ninety, an mx R a Phase ninety, and
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: I did have one other. What did I have that's
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: really I mean, that's mostly it and an echoplex, sorry,
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: an echoplex, and I had the old echoplex, the tape
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: echoplex and a theremin. Yeah, I did his whole thing.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: But that is basically what you have to work with.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: If you want to sound like Jimmy Page, you have
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: to you have to learn to play the notes like
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: he played them, and that is how you sound like him.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: No equipment's going to make you sound like it.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: So how'd you end up working with Eddie Kramer?
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: Again? It was another like crazy balls out steph moment
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: where I said to our manager we were going to
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: make a record, and we were making lists of producers,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: and I just said, you know, I always used to
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: joke with the girls about Eddie Kramer. Why don't you
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: know Eddie Kramer Shoot's going to come and produce a record?
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: And they'd laugh at me. So I said to Alan,
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: who was our manager, go, I don't know, should you
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: ask him? He goes, I'll ask him. Couldn't hurt to ask, right,
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: So he called him up and he asked him, and
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: Eddie checked out our stuff and he thought, I guess
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: we were good enough. So I'm sitting in my office
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: one day with a guitar and the phone rings as
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: they did then, and I picked it up and he goes, oh, hello,
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: it's Eddie Kramer, and you know, I nearly fell off
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: my chair because bingo, that was it. I just said
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: skin and he did it. So he came to New York.
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: We put him up and he produced this record, this
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: first record.
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: What was it like? Would you learn working with Eddie Kreamer?
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: I'll say there were some surreal moments, you know how
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: on Physical Graffiti, which we have had discussed where in
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: a Black Country Woman before that track, there's the you
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: know Robert going, oh, there's Eddie. You got to get
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: the those planes off right? He says this thing right,
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: So we would joke about that. But do you know
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: what it felt like to have that voice in the
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: control room saying rolling I mean like literally rolling nuts?
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: It was just like I'd entered some other dimension of
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: notting a crazy Zeppelin vortex. The one thing I will
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: tell you, And he was great. He was very nice
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: to us. Maybe not so nice to some of the
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: other people in the studio, but he was nice to us.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: That's all I'll say about that. But there was one
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: day when and this was a devil death day, when
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: I realized it was the guitar solo day, that I
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: was going to go in just me and Eddie and
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: I was going to play all the solos, and I'm
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: telling you, Bob, I nearly threw up. I mean I
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: was like, am I out of my mind? I was like,
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: what am I thinking? This guy sat with Jimmy Hendricks
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: for his old career, this guy sat with Jimmy Page
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: and whoever else, And I'm going to go in and
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: I'm going to play the solos. I was like, I'm
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: out forget about. This is crazy. And I don't know
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: what I did push ups or something, and I had
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: no choice. I had to go and do it. So
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: I went in, you know, scared to death, and it
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: was just me and him. We spent an hour or
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: two finding the right amp because Jimmy didn't use the
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: Marshall to play the solos, you know, the supro maybe
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: some other stuff. But we found this crazy little amp
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: which was a vox Nova, which is not a guitar
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: amp at all. It's actually an amp for horns, if
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: that makes any sense. It's a weird little amp, but
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: it sounded great. You turn it all the way up
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: and it just had the right crunch and something about
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: the tone. So I basically we chose that, and I
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: think the first song I tried to play was Communication Breakdown.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: So I went into this. I wed in and there's
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: Eddie Kramer and there's Roland, you know, and I just
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: played the solo and I actually played it okay, and
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: he stopped after it. He goes, come in here. I
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: think that's it. I'm like, you don't want me to
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: do it again. He's like, come out here, and he
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: played it. He goes, you did it, that's it. One take.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: He goes, I'll tell you something. He said. I wasn't
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: sure you could do this. He goes, but you can
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: do it. So after that we were good.
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, tell me about meeting Jimmy Page.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, this could be a whole podcast and of itself.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: So it took ten years before I actually met Jimmy,
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: which is probably good actually, because I was so in
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: Jimmy world that, you know, it's probably good. It took
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: ten years, but I met him at the when I
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: didn't know I was really going to meet him. It
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: was the last minute. My friend had an extra ticket.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: My friend who knows Jimmy and who's worked with him
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: and is a con vintage guitar dealer. He had an
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: extra ticket to the premiere of Celebration Day in New
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: York at the zig Field Theater. Did I want to go? Damn? Yeah,
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: this is a half an hour before the show or something.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: I didn't even you know, and I realized I might
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 2: actually meet Jimmy, who knows. I don't know, but I
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: had to get dressed, throw something on race down there
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: we saw the thing, you know, Jimmy and Robert, they
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: all came in the room, and just then being in
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: the room was amazing. But then we got to go
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: to the after party and I thought, okay, you'll probably
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: walk in. I'll get a chance finally to meet him.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: So Jimmy finally comes in after about an hour. I've
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: been hanging out with Joan Jet at the bar, talking
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: about women in music, which is very interesting, and about
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: you know, being a girl guitar player. So Jimmy comes
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: in and this friend of mine grab me and says,
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: we got to get him before he gets lost in
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: this crowd. So we pulls me up, shoves me in
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: front of him and says, Jimmy, this is Steph from
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: Les Zeppelin, and Jimmy stops and he turns and he
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 2: looks at me and he's like, oh wow, great to
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: finally meet you, like, oh my god, thank god, like
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: he actually knows the band and is big hug, right,
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 2: big hug. And we stand back and I say, Jimmy,
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: you know, I got to tell you, and I don't
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: know how I thought of this. He said, it's really
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: hard being you and he just laughed and he goes,
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: it is. I said, yeah it is. He goes, yeah,
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: I know it is. And we had this crazy life
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: because it was he knew I meant more than just
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: playing the guitar and all this stuff. It was everything about,
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: you know, being the Jimmy person. And then he said
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: to me, you know what you're doing out there is
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: really great. It's stunning, especially the first album, and I was,
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: oh my god, he knows the albums like this is.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 2: And then I got to say to him how much
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: his music meant to me and how much love it's
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: brought into my life, and we just stared at each
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: other like love birds. I was fuck because we both
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: have the same love, you know, led Zeppelin, and it
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: was just an instant. Yeah, we were soulmate, we're friends.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: This is it. So then he came around the room.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: I was like done, I didn't need anything after that,
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: but he did come around the room and someone else
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: dragged me over and said, Jimmy, you got to see
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: her band, and we both I was like, no, he knows,
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: it's fine, it's fine. But then we talked for like
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: fifteen twenty minutes and it was it was great. It
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: was really just he was so friendly and it was
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: clearly we liked each other. And I told him, I said, Jimmy,
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: you know we we got you got to see us.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: We have to come to England. Goes yeah, I know,
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: you guys. Last time you were here, I wasn't there.
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: I wasn't in town. I said, well, we'll come again.
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: So after that night, first thing I did is I
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: called this guy in England who was trying to book
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: us a tour who wildly underpaid. I mean, I couldn't
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: even do it because it was no money in it.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 2: But I called him and I said, look, we got
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: to come to England. You know, we got to do it.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: Can you can you arrange it? And he came back
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: the next day with a small tour which which started
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: off with the Isle of Wight. We played at the
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: Isle of Wight. It was it was like I'm telling you,
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: it was nuts. And the next day this is a
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: whole funny story, but you know, I've been I've been
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: sending Jimmy messages or his office telling him when we
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: were going to be there, and he didn't respond to
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: me at that point, so I didn't know if he
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: even knew. But we were coming back from the Isle
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: of Wight and we were in the van on the
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: way to London where we played at this place called
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: the Garage or the Garage, and I open up my
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: little flip phone, you know how it used to be
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: where when you're overseas you have to get one of
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: those Motorola flip phones where you poke at the at
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: the anyway. And I see a message and the message
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: says love Jimmy XOXO. And I look at it and
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: I'm exhausted, right, and I say love Jimmy, and my
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: drummer Lisa, looks over at me and says, steph Jimmy,
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: and I was like, oh oh, and I like go
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: into the messages, and sure enough there was this whole
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: other message and he forgot to sign his name, so
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: the one message said love Jimmy. But then there was
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: a whole other message and it was going on and
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: on about how he was me, Oh, I hope it's
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: going well and blah blah blah, like to try to
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: come and I'm reading it and I'm freaking out. And
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: then I try to start messaging him back. And as
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: I'm poking away at this phone ABC D housing and
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: my hands are sort of shaking, the phone rings. The
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: phone rings in my hand, so I look at it
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: and Lisa again, my goes, Steph, answer the phone. It's like,
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: this is so funny and so silly, it's very Monty
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: Python it. So I answered the phone, and of course
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: it's it's him. Hey, Hello, is this step It's it's
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: Jimmy Page right. I'm like, oh hi, and the whole van,
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: the whole crew silence. And he's a little bit ticked
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: off that I didn't answer him. You know, it's like
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: I didn't know he texted me, because you know, I
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: called you or I texted you, but I said.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, I know I did.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: I didn't see it, and blah blah blah blah. So anyway,
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: he's talking and he's telling me about how he's in
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: the studio he was working on those big three three
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: set reissues that you know, was one, two, and three,
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: and he was in the studio mastering all that stuff.
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: So well, finally, after about ten minutes of a conversation,
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: because well, I'd like to try to come, and uh so,
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 2: maybe just put put me on the guest list, and
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: he gave me his friend's name goes put us put
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: me under this name plus. So I did that. Okay, great, Well,
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: I hope you see you later. I said, come anyway,
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: even if it's you know, halfway done. Great, bye, hang
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: up the phone, and they all look at me, and
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: then there's this like, you know, eruption of So that
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: was I don't know if you even asked me this question,
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: but I'm telling you the whole thing. But then I
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 2: you know, then I have the problem of knowing he
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: might show up and having to play for him. Finally,
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: so that was that was formidable. Well did he show up, Yes,
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: he showed up. I knew he'd show up. I kind
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: of knew, and so I was again, it was kind
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: of like going into the studio with Eddie Kramer, right,
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: I was, Okay, Jimmy is going to be in the audience,
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: and I have to play his solos in front of him.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: And you know, Bob, I took this all very seriously.
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: This is not just oh, let's play he led Zeppel.
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: I mean I was hook line and sinker. I was in.
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: I was a lifer in this stuff. I was so
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: serious about getting it all right, kind of like him.
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: You know, it's not easy being Jimmy how to be right.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: So I realized I had two choices. I could freak
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: out and not be able to go on stage and
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: totally fuck it up right. Or I could just tell myself,
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: you know, I play as if he's in the audience
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: every night, so what difference does it make if he's
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: out there? And that is the little lie that I
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: told myself, and I gave the band a big pep talk,
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: and we were all nervous and we were all freaking out.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: We didn't know if he had come. So we go
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: out and we're playing this show and we're all hyped up.
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: It is super energetic, and I think, excuse me, I
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: think it was during days and confused when he actually
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: walked in. So I'm up there with the bow, right,
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: you just have to imagine this. I'm doing a bo
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: solo and Jimmy is in the back and I did
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: not know this, but the other girls did. They told
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: me later. Everyone else did, and they're like, oh my god,
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: he's out because they saw his white hair. You know
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: he's out there. Oh shit, don't tell Steph. That was like,
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: just don't tell her. So I'm doing the bow solo
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: and we get through days crowd loves it. We play
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: the rest of the show, and at some point toward
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: the end, I did see him in the back, but
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 2: I'd already been playing, so whatever. So after the show,
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: I was in such a state of hyped up crazy,
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: you know, show spirit. We go backstage and he makes
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 2: a beat line for the for the State for the
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: green room, at which point security everyone else got cleared out.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: He got let in and the door closed and that
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: was it. No one else was coming in. And I
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: got to tell you, Bob, when he came in, he
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: was he was kind of beside himself. He was, I mean,
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: I was on mars. I couldn't even really hear any
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: of it. I was so done. I was so spent.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: Everything I had went into that. But he said, that
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: is how it should be done. That's the way this
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: music should be played. Each and every one of you
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 2: are great, but that is that's it, that's what this
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: is about. And I got to tell you that, you know,
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 2: it was amazing. We've done our job, and you know
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: he has since he stayed with us for an hour
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: and we just hung out and then he suggested that
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 2: we take a picture. He suggested it, and you got
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 2: to know that he knew what that meant. So we
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 2: took a pick pictures. I had this this woman who
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: was doing pr for us and she was a great
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: photographer also, and her name is Judy Totten. I don't
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: know if you know who she is, but she used
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: to do a lot of PR in the UK and
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 2: I hired her for this little run and she took
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: some pictures of us that were fantastic. So it was
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: really thank god. I don't know, thank god because if
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: he didn't like it, I don't I'm not sure what
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: I would have done.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, the band's going on the road for the fiftieth
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: the anniversary. You're playing Physical Graffiti start to finish. Tell
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: me about that.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's not our fiftieth anniversary, but we'll talk again
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 2: when that happened. But yes, fiftieth anniversary of Physical Graffiti.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: You know, for some reason, Physical Graffiti was my dream
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: to play it the whole album. Really from the beginning,
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: I just thought, God, that would be so cool and
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 2: so fun because it's so it's kind of got all
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 2: the elements of what Led Zeppelin were, I think in
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: that one double album. It sort of runs the spectrum
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: of the genres that they touched on, and there's some crazy,
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: weird stuff in it, but there are some amazing things
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 2: in it, like you know, ten years Gone, which is
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 2: probably if I were pigeonholed would have to say, is
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 2: my favorite led Zeppelin song. But in my time of
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: dying Cashmir there's just a whole bunch of things that
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: are really sick again, it's cool, you know, there's just
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 2: some some cool stuff. So we got to the point
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: where our promoter, who's our agent, he's started as our promoter,
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 2: suggested it, and this is a couple of years ago.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 2: He said, what about Physical Graffiti? You know, can I
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 2: ever get that from you? And I thought, you know what,
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 2: We're ready to do it. We're ready, let's do it.
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: Because so we just started working on it and there
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: are a couple of songs that are really hard to do,
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 2: Like in the Light near impossible because you just need
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: too many people. With four people, it's almost impossible. But
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: we figured it out and we got a whole multimedia
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: show and it's really I love it, you know, in
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: the Light, I mean I cry, you know, ten years gone.
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 2: I cry. I'm just like I'm up there unless I'm
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 2: really screwing it up and I'm crying for another reason.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 2: But yeah, we're going to play it all year twenty
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 2: twenty five. We have a lot of shows booked, mostly
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: you know theaters, and it's an amazing shows. It's just
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: and then we throw in a couple of rocker numbers
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: after that. But it's it really is so satisfying, but
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: it's not easy to do.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: How long did it take you to learn it? And
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: how long did it take for the band to learn it?
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: It took a while to figure out a couple of things,
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: like in the Light took a while. We had to
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 2: go through different experiments of how to get this sound
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: on the keys, how to get the drone, how to
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 2: turn the drone off. I mean I hit a few things.
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 2: Joan switches keyboards, so that it took a while. I
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 2: don't know I would say it took us a couple
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 2: of months to maybe we really get it so that
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 2: we could play each song pretty well, even down by
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 2: the seaside.
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: How often do you play the guitar and how often
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: do you play these songs?
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 2: I don't practice nearly enough. I admit it. I'm bad.
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: I'm a bad I just I just don't. I should.
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 2: I go through spells of practicing, but I don't play enough,
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 2: and I think if I did, I'd be a lot better. Then.
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: I'm not bad or anything, it's just I think I
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 2: could be even better. But I play when we learn
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 2: something new, I'm constantly playing, and we're always trying to
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 2: add to our repertoire. And then we rehearse, and you know,
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: the girls are really We all learn it on our
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: own and then we come together, so we're pretty prepared
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 2: by the time we actually attempt it. And like I said,
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 2: these girls are amazing musicians, so it's not like we're
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 2: starting from square one. We're already in the feel of
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 2: what we have to do and how we have to play,
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: you know, which is a big thing.
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, so what's your favorite Lids Up One album?
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 2: H have we done this before? I'm not sure we have.
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 2: It's not really a fair question. It's another trick question, Bob.
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I could really say what's my
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 2: favorite that they're all sort of have. I have favorite things,
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 2: I mean one or two or physical graffiti. Maybe would
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: have to narrow it down. But I don't know if
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: you really had a you know what is it a
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 2: knife over my head? And I had to decide probably
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: physical graffiti because of the aforementioned things. I mean, one
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: is amazing because it is you know, I think they
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 2: were at the height of their playing powers. It's just insane,
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: as are their first gigs. I mean, it's that level
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: of playing is amazing. And two is very well crafted.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 2: It's got some great stuff, you know. I guess I'll
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: just say PG just because I have to. You're making
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: me say it.
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, what about you? I always used to say the
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: first album, Now I say physical graffiti. In terms of
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: the second album was way overplayed. I bought it the
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: day came out. You have no idea what it was like.
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: Third album. I saw the band live on that tour.
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: They punched the clock in the Haven. But third album
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: the renaissance of criticism. I believe is unfounded. It's kind
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: of like on Dennis Wilson solo, Wow, these are things
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: I'm familiar with, but they were not that great. Fourth album,
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: you know, Steerway to have we never have to hear,
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: but Battle of Evermore, you know, going to California rock
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: and roll Black Dog don't really mean that much to me.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: But when the levee breaks Houses of the Holy, a
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: lot of people think that's the best. I don't think so,
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: and I certainly believe the two albums after Physical Graffiti
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: presence is not as good as in Through the Outdoor.
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: But they were kind of spent, so they're all listenable.
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 1: But if I play them, I'll play the first, I'll
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: play Physical Graffiti, I'll play stuff off the fourth.
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, so we pretty much agree. I would put presents
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 2: way before in Through the Outdoor. But we can have
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: this discussion on the ski slopes because as it yeah,
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 2: it's a long discussion, but yeah, I basically agree with you.
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: And you know, we did not play Stairway for years. Yeah,
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: the first four or five years at least, we did
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 2: not play Stairway out of choice.
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: So what works live? What does the audience react to
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: most in terms of songs.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 2: Black Dog, rock and roll, whole lot of love.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: So the classic hits, they want to hear those absolutely.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 2: And our sound guy night Bob is always slamming us, saying,
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: you gotta play the hits you just got, you know,
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 2: and this is this is how the set should be.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: And we're just stubborn, you know, We're just like, oh
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 2: but we love four sticks and oh but we love
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, no quarter, I mean no quarter.
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 2: You know you can play that for twenty minutes and
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 2: we have done.
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: If we've done that, the low quarter is long to
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: begin with. Did everybody go to the bathroom?
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 2: Then? Right? No, they go to the bathroom during the
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: acoustic set.
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: Really, yeah, why do you think that is?
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: I just think it gets less loud and they all
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 2: think it's okay to leave. I don't know it's it,
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: but yeah, that's that's when they go so to speak.
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: And are these people out for a casual night or
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: how many of these people are die hard led Zeppelin fans?
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 2: Ah, it's it's a mix. Well, at first, let's put
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 2: it this way. The band is called led Zeppelin, right,
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: so you got half the guys coming because they think
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: we're going to kiss each other or maybe we will, so, hey,
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 2: I want to do that. The music can't be very good,
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: but they might kiss each other. So we got crowds
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: for that, and then of course they would leave saying,
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: oh my god, I can't believe they actually played like that.
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 2: So we got a lot of really hardcore led Zeppelin fans.
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 2: A lot of them are you know guys from I
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 2: would say fifty to seventy maybe, and they are serious,
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 2: but they love the band they do, and I was
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 2: worried about those guys, mostly guys. There were girls too,
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 2: a lot of more girls than you think. But I
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: needn't have worried because they are some of our biggest supporters.
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 2: But now in the last ten years, the audience is kids.
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 2: To the guys that saw them twelve times, little kids
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 2: in the front, and it is the most beautiful thing
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: to see little girls. You know, their earplugs are in,
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 2: they're with their parents, and they're staring up at four
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 2: female musicians, never in their a million years having a
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: thought I cannot do this, this is not what I
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 2: can do, which was the thought I had when I
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 2: was that age and I wanted to be a rock star. Whatever.
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 2: Eric Clapton or whoever. I thought, I can't do this.
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 2: I'm a girl, literally, that's what I thought. But I
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 2: did it anyway, as you can see my personality. But
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 2: those little girls and those little boys, all of them,
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: they just have it. It's great. And there are a
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 2: lot of young people. Sometimes it looks like the seventies.
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 2: I'm like staring out there and there are these kids
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 2: with long hair and jumping up. You know, they're teenagers
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: or twenty. It's like, is this is it nineteen seventy two?
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know, could be?
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 1: Do these little girls and boys come up to you
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: after the show and ask you questions, et cetera.
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: They are some of those kids that are even too
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 2: young or shy, but yes they do. Or like I
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: hand them a pick or something and they're, oh my god,
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 2: they're so enthralled, they really are. They love it. It's amazing.
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 2: It's great.
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: So you've gone on. You said some great things about
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: Jimmy Page. Jimmy doesn't play live much at this point,
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: if at all, but there are a lot of other
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: inter acts of that vintage. We're going out and playing
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: the same songs that they've been playing for fifty years. However,
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: they were the original artists. To what degree do you
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: feel stifled having to do this music all the time?
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't feel stifled at all. I mean,
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 2: there are times I don't want to go on stage
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: and play the Ocean. I'll give you that. I'm not
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: in the mood. I'm not in the mood to start
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 2: into a whole lot of Love with all of its antics,
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 2: because it ends up being this intense, crazy show. We
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: do it a whole show, you know, with the theerremen
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: and lots of improvisation. But once I get into it,
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 2: I'm there and I still love it. I you know,
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 2: I even if it's a road worn set, you know,
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 2: like all the hits which we play or we'll do,
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 2: the song remains the same concert and most of that
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: is all the hits, you know, it's the most including Stairway.
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: You gotta play that. But I don't know, I'm always
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: finding something new in it, and I'm always finding something
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: I didn't catch. So it's fun. It's fun because I'm
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 2: communicating with the band and I don't know what they're
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 2: gonna do all the time, and they don't know what
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna do, and they have to respond, and that's
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 2: what keeps it interesting. And I dare say that's what
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: Jimmy loved.
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: And you said earlier, led Zeppelin is not a tribute band.
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: Experanid that well.
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 2: I think partially for the reason I just said, we
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: do not impersonate led Zeppelin. I would have no interest
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 2: in that whatsoever. And I also don't really have an
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 2: interest in playing every single note that they played that
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 2: I would get bored with. If I had to do that,
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 2: I would feel stifled. Like you said, right, but this
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 2: music breathes. It's not that, and I feel like what
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 2: we have to offer is more of The only word
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 2: I could coin was she incarnation of the band, meaning
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 2: we are a real band. This is our canon of music.
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: We've studied our parts the way the composers wanted us
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 2: to play them, but we still are musicians in our
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 2: own right, and we go out there and once we
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 2: take hold of this material, something of us comes through.
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 2: And you know, we're not scared of that, because if
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: you're looking for exactly the same notes or whatever, you're
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: not going to have that all the time. When it
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 2: comes to see you're going to have something else, something
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 2: being created. And for that reason, We are not a
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 2: tribute band. That's a real band, and you're.
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: A real person, Steph. I want to thank you so
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: much for telling your story and sharing your thoughts with
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 1: my audience.
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 2: It's always a pleasure. Thank you for having me on, Bob, really,
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 2: it's an honor. I love your columns. You're very important
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 2: to our stream of discussion these days, so thank you.
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: Till next time, This is Bob left Stand