Latest / GAIN Momentum / Having Fun at C-Level Through Friend-Style Service | with Mike Hirschler

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Having Fun at C-Level Through Friend-Style Service | with Mike Hirschler · GAIN Momentum

• ​GAIN Momentum episode #78: Having Fun at C-Level Through Friend-Style Service | with Mike Hirschler === Adam Mogelonsky: Welcome to the GAIN Momentum Podcast, focusing on timeless lessons from senior leaders in hospitality, travel, food service, and technology. I'm joined by my cohost Mike Cohen, and our special guest today is Mike Hirschler, Chief Growth Officer at Staypineapple. Mike, how are you? Mike Hirschler: Doing great. It's sunny day here in the Pacific Northwest, sunny. So, uh, I'm doing fabulous. Just a Michael Cohen: Well, that's, uh, that, that's a rare occurrence. So it's a special day in the Pacific Northwest then. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Mike Hirschler: little secret in the summertime. This is a pretty neat place to be. In fact, I think I read somewhere, uh, that, uh, Seattle is one of the top two domestic destinations this year for, uh, summer trials. We're pretty. Michael Cohen: You go. I mean, I, I, I, it's a beautiful spot. I love, I love traveling, doing business there and, and great to be with you, Adam, as well. Uh, nice to be contributing to what we do at [00:01:00] the GAIN Momentum Podcast, so thank you. Adam Mogelonsky: So, I mean, there is a sense of place that comes along with state pineapple and its roots in the Pacific Northwest along the West coast. Mike, start us off. Talk about. The brand, how it started, and this whole idea of out of the ordinary hospitality. Mike Hirschler: Sure. Well, uh, started with parking lots. So if you ever come, uh, if you ever come up to the Seattle area, uh, chances are. In lot, you'll park in a parking lot. So our um, and uh, obviously as the built, uh, quite a parking lot if you will. Um, and then that translated into commercial real estate. And, um, and on, uh, Michelle Barnett's side of the family, which is Michelle Pineapple. She joined the commercial real estate side with her, uh, with her [00:02:00] parents. And, um, but she had had a career in hospitality before that. Uh, and when coming back to the, to the family company said, let's get into the hotel business. Um, and it all started with buying several distressed assets in, in Seattle and, and turning them into something special. Um, initially those three hotels were managed by a third party. Sha and her family then created the Maxwell Hotel, which was the first ground up build. And at that point decided we should try doing this on our own, uh, and let's see if we can turn this into something. And that's how P Hospitality was born. Probably about, I say about 13, 14 years ago. As time went on it, the, the company expanded through opportunistic, uh, purchases of hotels down the West coast. It started with Portland, San Francisco. San Diego. San Francisco was completely overhauled, uh, gut renovation [00:03:00] of, of a just a cool historic building on, on Gary Street. And at that point I was like, well, we cut scale here. We turn this into a brand. 'cause we've got two cool ideas to make this fun and unique and different. That's how State Pineapple is. Brand was born. Then over this ensuing years extended on to Chicago, Boston, and New York, and that's our current footprint. Um, and just, just before, uh, the pandemic hit, we'd been approached by an outside ownership group, it was going to purchase those original three and asked if we would consider. As many owners do leverage that, that, uh, those sales into something else. And that was when I think the light bulb initially went off. And obviously the, the pandemic kind of put a halt to the sale and obviously put a halt to growth, uh, and expansion plans. There's a lot of recovery and the, the ensuing several years. We actually think it was really good thing [00:04:00] because it allowed us to really start to hone in on what it's, that is our differentiation. and here we are today. Uh, we've actually, we're backing, we've backed into management by selling off several of our assets. In fact, again, those original three hotels, three separate ownership groups, all three of those sales were unencumbered because we wanted to fight for the management contracts, and we got. All three management contracts, which we excited about. So we're, we're moving in the asset light direction, um, to really focus on what it's that, that we believe we can do best. And that is to be a really cool different lifestyle brand, uh, and, bring it out to other markets. Michael Cohen: I think it's so interesting, Mike. Um, and I'm going to do a compare and contrast, which is very pejorative, and of course it's, you know, state pineapple is a different scenario, different, uh, uh, different vibe, but. There was a time when Jovie and Kimpton, and you know where I'm going with [00:05:00] this here, Mike Hirschler: You're not you. You did not you. You're not the first to make that comparison. We've done that ourselves. We like to think of ourselves as Kim in about late nineties, Michael Cohen: So, you know what, then, I'm really happy I brought it up because I know it's an sort of an obvious it's, but, but I, they were a client of mine at HQ level and so is Jo Aviv and for technology and innovation for years. And, um, I'll just say it, it was some of the greatest work to be involved in. Um, and I, and, and this is about state pineapple, but I love the, um. The essence perhaps, or maybe even the hat tip or however you wanna do it, the, the little bit of flavor that you guys have obviously optimized and expanded upon and made your own. But that gap or space in the North American industry, you know, because of growth and large transactions, of course, like it's great timing, was great timing for state pineapple to kind of fill this important space, even if it's a mind space of consumers and guests [00:06:00] for that kind of boutique. More bespoke, uh, still well priced, not, not, not budget, but not, you know, uh, stratosphere type scenarios and actually get a real feel of the community and the history of the building and et cetera. So I'm just gonna say this, and I don't always say this on this podcast, kudos because there, there was a need for it and I lived it both as a consumer and as a executive. That kind of energy within our industry. So it's really great to see state pineapple grow. Mike Hirschler: truly appreciate hearing you say that. Uh, Mike, and, and you know, I think there's a couple of, couple of things that I'd respond to that one. One is, I, I, it does, it does start with a visionary founder. Um, and I was not here in the days when they would have what they would call big ideas meetings, uh, which really led to the vision and some of the quirky, crazy branding, uh, that serves as the foundation that then [00:07:00] allow, has allowed us as the current exec team to then. Pivot it to how do we then capture that into and monetize that right? And turn into a, a true service model. Um, it was kind of initially focused on product and then that has then been leveraged into, well, we've got a cool quirky product that actually, when you look at our soft goods packages best in class, um, luxury, where it counts is what we like to say. So to your point about what space do we serve, it's for those. Those that are on the aspirational scale, um, may maybe, and to your point, maybe aren't really willing to spend a thousand dollars a night, uh, for, for where some of the luxury properties have gone for standard gastro, but they want character and they want the service experience. The second piece of that is, um, I just, I couldn't be prouder to.[00:08:00] We have 175 combined years of large, um, hotel management, executive leadership experience. So we've, we've been at all of the big brands, but we are in it for the passion of hospitality and. I think we found is that we were all kind of square pegs and round holes as those, as other organizations and Right. Every, there's different needs for different reasons and things happen, but oftentimes the, the larger the scale, uh, the less in tune you are with, with what you're in. End user end. So whether that's the guest or the team member that, that sits on property, and this group has come together and we're like, let's just go have fun. Let's make it fun for our team members. So we make it fun for our guests. And fun doesn't mean that it's a giant party all the time. [00:09:00] It just means that it's like, wow, this is a different place. This is not the bland, this is not the beige, this isn't a dressed up. Um. Boutique hotel, you know, something that has the look in the field, but really is still beholden to a number of different standards that have been focus groups and, and determined in some corporate anonymous corporate office in a business park outside of Washington, dc. Um, and so, you know, it's, it's kind of a fun time. It's always gritty. It's, it's difficult, it's challenging. Uh, I don't call us a startup, but I would say we're definitely an upstart. Um, and, uh, we're excited to see where it goes. Adam Mogelonsky: I have one more point just to sort of bow, tie this, uh, intro here, and that is a phrase I use, which is the story is the specificity. And you mentioned things like boutique, quirky, uh, you know, square pegs, round holes. Can you color that with just a few of the [00:10:00] minor touches that state pineapple does exceptionally well to really color that guest experience and the onsite storytelling. Mm-hmm. Mike Hirschler: Sure. Uh, let's, let's start with the product first. I think, I think there's two, two things on the product side. One is we were opportunistic buyers, and again, Michelle's vision was, let's be in the best markets we. Possibly be, I mean, to sit there and say a 10 hotel brand that is in the seven cities that we're currently located across the country, that's a pretty, that's, that's a pretty big footprint for a, a very small scale organization. And so we were. Our buildings are just crazy different. We go from a 24 foot wide by 25 story tall pencil building, uh, in midtown Manhattan to a, uh, what was it, 207 unit SRO building in the gas lamp of San Diego that was converted into a 96 room [00:11:00] Holiday Inn Express that was sold immediately before opening and all of the case goods that are in that hotel. We're intended for holiday in express to, uh, state Pineapple Chicago, which I was just at. Uh, and it's one of the original skyscrapers in Chicago. Um, Daniel Burnham designed just a complete historic gym, full service property with valet parking, three meal a day restaurant. So. From a, from just a building standpoint, you, every single building has this unique story behind it. It's, it's got a, independent feel. Many of our hotels are independently named. Um, and to give it that feeling, uh, so you get the neighborhood story through the building itself. Then what we do is we do have brand standards, but we keep it tight. We keep it to the things that are, are most important. And there is nothing more important in our view than the soft goods experience. [00:12:00] It's your mattress, it's your sheets, it's your towels. And we did a crazy thing. Um, we brought in, we brought in, um. Examples from all of the brands, the top brands that were, were recognized. We cut off the tags and we basically said, okay, what do you like best out each of these different products? And then we went to our vendors and we said, okay, how can you make it better? Um, I have never met anybody that doesn't say that our bath towels are not the most comfy. Most amazing, most absorbent bath towels they've ever used in a hotel. Uh, my, uh, partner insisted when I was asked by a friend that was, uh, that loves bathrobes if I could get him a bathrobe. And she said, well, wait a second. You're gonna get him one and not me one. And so that is the only bathrobe she ever this, uh. Our mattresses at our house are steak, pineapple mattresses. So from a [00:13:00] soft goods experience, which we call the naked experience because they're so comfy, cozy, and clean, uh, you, you don't mind it. You know, everything just touching your body and just. Yourself and wrapped up and everything, uh, and you just, you sleep better. I mean, I just, again, with at, uh, our property in Chicago and I, I sleep so soundly. Um, and that's, you know, that's a personal story. You hear that. So those are the two product things that I think is the building itself. Uh, and then the soft foods experience, which is most important. Our guests, uh, and. Ultimately it comes down to the people and it's the, the direct connection between the team members that are on site and uh, the guests themselves. And there's some really different things from a paradigm perspective that we do, that we can talk more about that really allow us. Allows our teams on site to put all of the [00:14:00] focus into the guests. It allows the managers on site to put all of their focus into the guests and the team members and not get distracted, uh, by the administrative and the bureaucracy. Michael Cohen: It's interesting there. Um, if I can interject, Adam, I really enjoyed Dina's presentation at the Muse Unfold Conference in, in April, um, which was your president, which was such an interesting, uh, she did a wonderful job of, of re reiterating maybe a little more depth what, what we're gonna talk about today. 'cause she had, but, um, karma Energy. It sounds woo woo to some people, but the, you know, this, um, I remember we know how to say yes, or we know to say Yes philosophy, uh, that really struck with me as a observer of, of the conference and her particular panel. And just, you know, let, if we can talk a little bit about that, if that's okay, Adam. The, the reality is that, you know, there, there's tech, there's, there's infrastructure, there's real estate, there's, you know, but [00:15:00] philosophy. And energy from top down, bottom up, side to side I think is so mission critical to what you guys have built and are building as well. Mike Hirschler: It's funny, I was, um. Some folks that had, were in our, our property, uh, this week. Um, and they had seen Dina speak a couple of years ago. Uh, and they had been, they had been spending the better part of a day or two. They were doing some filmography for us. And, uh, they said, you know what's crazy? And they were just like totally shocked. They're like all of the things she said, people do here. And they say, here. And it was just this like, like almost this disbelief. Like, what are you guys, what are you guys feeding everybody? Because you don't see this, right? You always hear there's, and, and not to get cliche and, and certainly not to be, this isn't about our own [00:16:00] ego, but it is. You hear the platitudes that come from the top and then they just. it gets diluted as it goes down and, and whatever is the mission or the vision or the value statement don't always get felt, uh, at the base level, whether that's the guest. Or again, the frontline employees. My background is 25 years in, in hr and so from, from my perspective, there is nobody more important than the frontline team members. Um, the folks that work in, in the office with me here to Constant, I think we do work really, really hard to constantly remind them. We are here to support the 85% of the team members that are in this field. It does not go the other way around. And I think with that, you know, from a cultural standpoint, always re remaining grounded in what it is that we do. Who it is that we serve makes certain [00:17:00] that. You always have a touchstone, and Dina does such a good job from a leadership perspective of, of really carrying forward Michelle's vision as she stepped away, uh, from, you know, from the day-to-day operations of the organization has truly become, you know, and own leader. Um. Dina has been able to carry forth that vision, and I think it, it started because she comes from a real estate and development background. It started in carrying forth the vision of, of the product. But Dina is such a, has such a great charisma and it's such passion for what it's that we do and our people that it just, it was an easy translation to, to make it about. The entirety of the brand. Um, and I, I really do, you know, appreciate you bringing that up because it's, it's special. Uh, it, it can sometimes sound like, okay, they think they've got it all figured out. Uh, but when you talk to our guests, again, I was talking to a potential, um, [00:18:00] uh, partner, um, for, you know, a deal that may be happening. May not happen. You never know how these things go, but she had, she had been to the bar at one of our properties and sat down and a guest unsolicited started just about how much she loved the hotel, how much loved the staff. Of course I had to say, yeah, we actually pay that person to just sit there us, but it's amazing you, I shameless in plugging. I don't have my vest on right now, but have everywhere that I go and people will just literally just stop and say. Do you work for the brand? And you always in the hospitality business get a little nervous when somebody ask work for, uh, for the brand? And, and I'll say yes, and then it just, it's like it comes pouring outta them because to your point earlier, people are hungry. for true authenticity They like to use authenticity as part of a design aesthetic or [00:19:00] how we're supposed to deliver the service, but they're actually hungry for the, for the actual authenticity. And that means that there may be some. There may be some bumps and bruises to that. Right. You know, you could walk into some of our properties and say, yeah, this hotel could, could probably use a, a refresh. But there's a, there's a reason why people love it. They love it because it, it feels real. it's not, you know, lipstick on, on a pig. Right. It is, it's real. It's representative of where you are and the people that serve you are representative of the community that you're in. Adam Mogelonsky: I want to dive into one other point about your background, talking about culture and working in human resources. Uh, first as background before you joined Staying Pineapple. You were at four Seasons for 15 years. Is that correct? Mike Hirschler: 14 years, 356 days, but I wasn't counting. Adam Mogelonsky: Okay. Yeah, I'm, I'm not that good at math to [00:20:00] know what that adds up to, but, Mike Hirschler: I didn't get my 15 year gift. I'm not still bitter about Adam Mogelonsky: Uh, Mike Hirschler: year. Michael Cohen: Don't, don't. Has it in the mail. It's okay. Mike Hirschler: Yeah. Yeah. I just, I think it, it's still getting, uh, shipped all over the country. Adam Mogelonsky: so, uh, one role you had was director of university relations. Is that correct? Yeah. Mike Hirschler: Yes. That is correct. That is correct. Yeah. Adam Mogelonsky: And we always talk about people, and a part of that is where is the next generation of hoteliers coming from? And in my mind that role, developing a direct relationship between a hotel and a university or a college, is so important for developing, uh, that means of making our industry aspirational. So within that, I'm wondering if you could unpack what you did for that role, how you built that relationship, what initiatives you undertook to really bring to the forefront not only four seasons, but the entire [00:21:00] industry for the next generation of, of career professionals. Mike Hirschler: You're the first person ever ask me that question, so I really, I. Michael Cohen: Doesn't surprise me, Mike does not surprise me. This is not, doesn't surprise me at all. Mike Hirschler: But it does, I think there's a direct correlation between how that all came about and you know what happens here. And it, you know, I've been blessed to work for people for direct, uh, leaders who have seen something in me that I never thought myself. And so they push me to go way outside my comfort zone. Um, how I'm Chief Growth Officer here, that's thanks to Dina. And a call that she made to me while, uh, she got on an airplane. And before I could even contemplate what she was saying to me, uh, she said I had to go, I have to go. They're closing the door. I have to turn off my cell phone. So I couldn't continue to talk. Um, but uh, same, same scenario. Uh, I worked for very visionary. Chief HR at Four [00:22:00] Seasons. He was there for a short period of time, just three years, which is a very short period in the, um, in Four Seasons land, uh, before, uh, he retired, but his name is Ed, ed Evans. And, um, he was just somebody who had come in from completely outside. He has a hospitality free, but he had worked all over, uh, different organizations. Republic Services at one point running their hr. and he came in and really shot holes in the paradigm. Uh, at the time. The Four Seasons is just steeped in history, but right, there was kind of this, there was a little bit of stagnation in terms of the culture, right? Things are, people are saying all right things, but is it really translating? Um, and he really, he came in and shook things up. I remember initially when he started, I was like, who is this guy? Uh, and uh, but then I quickly bought into the, the direction he was going and, and so I was told that I needed to take [00:23:00] over, uh, recruiting at my alma mater. Um, and I'll come out and say it, uh, Cornell's hotel school. So, uh, that goes back because I've always wanted to be in this business and because, uh, my dad was a high school guidance counselor and told me if I wanna be in this business. That's the, the word focus. And so I followed his guidance, even though I came from sunny southern California and ended up in, uh, lake Effect snow, uh, upstate New York. But, uh, at the time we had a huge challenge because the school, there was this massive dichotomy between the reputation of four seasons and the fact students just didn't even bother, uh, engaging with the company. Um, and, it was we had to do something different. And what. I did is I, I'm like, Hey, gimme a challenge and, and you know, an impossible challenge, which was to redefine the reputation of Four Seasons at the Cornell Health School, and let's see what we can do. And so I ended up, uh, meeting with [00:24:00] students and faculty and administration to find out what was the challenge. And the problem was we were doing the same things that everybody else was doing. So, you know, we were doing the same type of info session. We were doing the same type of interviewing. Nothing we were doing was causing four seasons to stand out as an employer. Commensurate with its standout performance as a guest centric brand. And there was just an expectation if you're for season, you should be doing something different. So the very first year, uh, I took over, we just blew up the whole thing. Uh, we ended up doing an open house. We did a special reception for graduating seniors, people that had been interns with us, uh, people that were gonna be interviewing with us so that they could feel like there was a special event for them. I had our executive chef at our property here in Seattle, developed menu. I had our, our staff create, um, a non-alcoholic, you know, mocktails, uh, so that the students that worked in the kitchens and at the bar could then, you know, actually be. [00:25:00] Creating four Seasons, menu and recipe items. Um, we got into the classroom and engaged at the classroom level. Not to sell the brand, but to, you know, to to be subject matter experts. And so I said, I wanna know exactly where, wherever we're going to speak, where are you at in the curriculum for the semester? So that speaking, uh, in contemporary language to what the students are learning. And it, it totally. Totally changed. We ended up becoming, we got back to our place as the number one employer for graduating seniors within our very first year. And then of course, that then became, well Mike, you did that there. what's next? Right? Um, and so that just built, and that's how I ended up becoming, uh, director of university relations. And then that really was, that then rolled into, uh, the VP of early Careers because we were, that the intention at that point was to then build a roadmap. A, a, a faster [00:26:00] track to the general manager level and the executive team level because Four Seasons had a history or reputation of it takes you, you know, 10 jobs, 20 moves, and 25 years to ever become a gm. And that just doesn't work in this day and age. Unfortunately, a little something, uh, happened in March of 2020. Uh, to bring that all to a halt. I dunno what it could be. so, which is fine because as I like to say, you never know how green the grass is on the other side of the fence until you get thrown over it. Uh, and so much of, of what I learned and was able to do in those, in that forward thinking role. Allowed me to bring it here to stay pineapple and how we approached the people and culture side of things. And then, uh, eventually, obviously now into the growth side. Um, but you're absolutely right, uh, it is about getting into the, it's about meaningfully getting into the universities, getting into the classrooms. So many, [00:27:00] you know, students are hungry to hear reality versus. Theory and um, and you know, I always would challenge anybody that was gonna go peak challenge. I want you to challenge the professor. Because the chances are they've been out of the industry for a while, uh, and the textbook has perfection. But we know this is a, this is a very special and unique business, and you have a perspective to bring to the students that will make the engagement and conversation in the classroom book. Um, so, uh, yeah, so thank you for, again, asking that question. Adam Mogelonsky: No problem. Um, to ask. Next question, to segue, this is a somewhat of a technology podcast. Your title is Chief Growth Officer, not Chief Technology Officer. So I'm wondering, [00:28:00] and I guess Michael is as well, what exactly is your involvement with technology decisions, and if you could speak to how Stay Pineapple overall makes technology decisions at the executive level. Michael Cohen: Can I, can I actually add, ADD or into that, Adam? I think it'd be really interesting. Um, uh, to focus on innovation, I think is maybe more all encompassing versus technology. I think innovation, we, we'd love to hear about that. We have some, uh, great, uh, feedback and opinions about what State Pineapple was doing on the innovation side, but we'd love to hear it from, you know, uh, from the Chief growth Officer. Mike Hirschler: Well, in case, couldn't tell. I can go a little squirrel and, and go long-winded. So, uh, just. Stop me if you, you know, and seriously do interrupt me, uh, if you have a follow up or something that's, uh, you'd, you'd like me to, to, to dive into a little bit more. But, you know, I, I think our innovative spirit again, is born out of the fact that we've always had to be scrappy right from the [00:29:00] very, very beginning. We've had to be opportunistic. Again, allows you to get outside of the traditional paradigms that hold our industry back. And I think that there was something that happened on the technology side, and it's consistent with what I just talked about in terms of product. I think this is actually, we wanna thread innovation through. We didn't go buy a package of goods for our soft goods product. We went and we individually hand selected what? Our team, they took those products home. They used them, they washed them, they slept in them. They, you know, you know, they, dried off after they got out of the shower. And we said, okay, what is the best towel? What is the best sheet? What is the best mattress? What is the best, uh, bathrobe? Right? It didn't matter that it was, you know, it, it was all a la carte really. Right. [00:30:00] That same approach has been taken as we've looked at our technology stack, and it started pre pandemic with two, uh, pieces of technology. One was our rms, and when we made a decision, uh, to, to select an rms, uh, we went with Duetto and it was, it was pretty early on, in their growth. And, um, because. What possible with Duetto and that it was so far advanced compared to its competitors. Uh, and that was really a huge payoff for us. Um, and we also brought in somebody who was not from hotel, he was hotel adjacent, uh, but in the tech states to be the head of our CRM. Selected Salesforce, our CRM, which again, this is, we're going back six, seven years. That was unheard of in the hospitality space because again, you were looking at, oh, there needs to be a CRM that is specific to our industry. And the answer was no. Let's go buy [00:31:00] the best CRM that's out on the market. Um, and so those two decisions in a pre pandemic era, then. Translated to what, where we are today. Um, and last year we made the decision that we're gonna really push forward if we're gonna be a value add opportunity for the types of owners that we're seeking. We need to just rip the bandaid off and we need to overhaul the rest of our tech stack. Um, and so that's what we did and it started with the property management system and we looked at. All of the big players that are out there, we were on. A that I won't name that is, uh, but is probably the biggest in the industry, uh, and has its roots back to 2001. So every incremental upgrade, it's still based in the fundamentals of a 24, 20 5-year-old, uh, [00:32:00] foundation. And we went with Muse, um, because we see what the opportunity is for the future. It means that we're gonna have to take a little bit of a hit in what's possible today. Just because uses a new product, especially in North America and the United States and translating, uh, a European product into this market is, does not come without its bumps and hiccups, but it's what the future is gonna be. And what we loved about Muse was two things, was the much simpler I. Interface for our team members on the front lines, but it's, it's scalable. It's growable and it's, and the open API architecture. They're not afraid. Say, listen, we'll give you a basic product in this or that, or the other thing. But if you go, if there's something that's best in class out there that you wanna plug in, let's do it. So then we then took all the ancillary products and we went and we looked [00:33:00] and we said, what is the very best? And it was, you would have the subject matter experts, but then you would also, we would also include our operations teams in that discussion process because they're the end users. And so we have this. Cool suite of, of all cloud-based, uh, that all talk to each other. And at the heart of all of it is not just the single system. It's not just the property management system because PMSs are, they're property management. They're specific to the building, they're specific to the space, the guest room, the product that you're selling. Who's the most important equation in our world? Not what's the most important. Who is the most important, and it's the guest. And so where do you capture all of the information and store all of that data? It isn't in the pmms. We've tried. It's impo, it's so difficult. You have notes that just keep going forever. It's so difficult to read them. You end up having all of these different acronyms that [00:34:00] nobody understands and you have to be taught different languages. No, it's all in the cr. And so we now have, uh, Salesforce and Muse talking to each other and being completely, um, integrated in the communication between the two systems. And we're just now starting to, you know, we decided, hey, listen. More technology for a while. Uh, we need to now figure out what are we gonna do with that, which we have. And, and that's what, uh, 2025 is all about. And that's leveraging our technology. And we've developed what we call personalization roadmap. Um, which literally other, but it sits on my, uh, my, uh, my board here. And it's what allows us to say, okay. Is what we are doing with our technology stack? Does it accomplish what we need it to on our roadmap? Michael Cohen: Mike, I, I, I will, uh, do a shameless. Plug, and I rarely do this, but I, but I, 'cause I really appreciate [00:35:00] the clarity about the platforms. Um, check out Ireq and you at some point. As, as, as an alternative perhaps to your, uh, investment in Salesforce. I know that's very salesy of me. I apologize, but I'm just saying from a personal perspective I think you guys are the, are, um, just, just, I know that you know your home in ell, but it's worth review because, uh, love people at Salesforce too. But there are other alternatives that we have identified for other clients that are, that take what you talked about and even, even wider and deeper. Again, I'm not shill, I'm just being open about as a, as a leader advisor, um, for, for discussion. But, uh. Mike Hirschler: And like I said, we're always, we're always open to looking at alternatives and you know, we've, and uh, and I think that's the other thing, we're still at a scale where we can, we can be that we always wanna be nimble. We do realize that the larger you get, the more difficult that becomes. And I think that is back to competitive advantage for us. See with the large, it's the [00:36:00] large brands, or even if you get, if you come in as a lifestyle brand underneath all of that, the amount of bureaucracy it takes to move the ship, um, and to, you know, change a pla a single platform can, can take years. If not, then it becomes proprietary. I think we're always, Hey, what's the newest, greatest, best thing out there that makes the most sense for who we take? Yep. Adam Mogelonsky: You know, you talk about ripping the bandaid off when it comes to technology, and that is much easier said than done and. Hospitality does have a reputation for being slow to change. So I'm wondering what have you seen? What have you done and what would you advise for? Innovating quickly, and you know, whether that's failing fast forward or having [00:37:00] decision timelines for saying, okay, well we're gonna investigate all the PMSs at this time. We're gonna make a final decision by this time. how do you execute change quickly in 2025? Nope. Mike Hirschler: There's no right answer to that question because you are going to, whatever you do and however you decide to approach it, there are going, there's gonna be collateral damage. I dunno how to put it any other way. I do think. Most importantly, I think there's due diligence that has to always be done, but what I, I think I see way too often is there becomes obsession in, um, in the collective decisions and that everybody has to buy in. Everybody has to agree. And when that happens, you, you just never get anywhere. Um, and so I think, [00:38:00] you know, when we Michael Cohen: Mike, you're talking about, you're talking about paralysis by analysis in Mike Hirschler: paralysis by analysis, but also the, the concept that everybody's gotta feel good about So, um, and I, and I just think back to, you know, my previous life and, and there was just this one state. There was one thing I was trying to get across the finish line and in nine months, no, a year and a half actually, uh, it never got across the finish line because it was a constant of, this division needs to look at it and they need to have their input, and then they make the changes, and then it just keeps going and going and going. So I think what we did is we said, listen, we do need to do due diligence. In a perfect world, you would pilot. You know, but that doesn't, we, we tried that with the latest version of the previous, uh, operating system we were using. We used it for a year at a hotel and we realized, okay, that's [00:39:00] not gonna work. So you can't constantly be trialing and having everybody on different systems. By doing that, we had data integrity problems because, you know, not everything was the same. but getting. The key stakeholders to the table, I think is crucial. And it's not everybody. So even though I'm on the executive leadership team on the, and the people in development at the time and the people side of things, um, you know, I, I don't need to be a part of that conversation. My biggest concern is, the only thing I, I would add is what. How that team members, right, what is, what does their experience look like? Is it gonna be better or is it gonna be more complicated by this? But other than that, I'm not the one at the table. it's operations. It's not just the head of operations, it's GMs that are on the ground. It's getting some of our most valued team members that we think are the best at what they do to be able to try out and test the [00:40:00] software before we make a decision. Um, and, you know, it's a tight group. Is going to be most affected by the, the decision making process. Um, it's also saying, knowing when to say we need to, we might need to stop and we might need to pivot. So we, uh, muse was not in our, was not one of the top two. Initially, uh, of our property management system options when we were making a decision, but we had a change, uh, in leadership and in our it, uh, division. And with that change, we decided to ask the new head of it, um, to revisit before we made a final decision. And, and as such, what we're choosing from with these two is what's best today. What we need to be thinking about is what's best tomorrow, because we're looking to be the leaders in the, in of, of tomorrow's hospitality industry, and that's what caused us to pivot. So I think [00:41:00] it's also, you know, not being afraid to take risk if you see the potential for the future. And we're, we are currently in a time. Is has. Foundations that have existed. It's just, it's really, it, it, it can be technology, the use of just archaic foundational technology that inherently, you know, doesn't talk to each other well. Uh, it can be in terms of systems and processes and in terms of the way in which, um, you. in the hotel development and investment space, there's this yearning to go back in time to a pre pandemic scenario and the stability that, that and, and all of the knowns that existed. Um, and that's the way in which, you know. [00:42:00] Deals are done and financing is handled, and it's like, that's not the world we live in today. And at some point there has to be a change to that paradigm. But it's not just that. It's, you take the entirety of the industry and we're very much stuck I feel, in a 1990s mindset 30 years later. And we are always, as you know, you've, spoken about Michael, we're always pushing against that. I dunno if that answers your question. Michael Cohen: Yeah, I, I think it's interesting. Just, just briefly, Adam, um, you know, we, we all a, a lot of us say this, we know this. This is not the most easy industry in the world. It's a very fulfilling industry, but hotels are hard, and every hotel is a snowflake. And, and especially for your brand, it's even more interesting because it's not just, you know, the infrastructure or the aesthetic or the innovation that you deploy literally in your world, in your brand portfolio. Every hotel literally is a snowflake. There's a lot of differentiation in the [00:43:00] properties and I find it fascinating when you know. Organizations, small, medium, and large, and you guys are a growing brand, a growing entity, you know, to, to have a level of consistency, which is important, a level of optimization while still maintaining this. The patina of each property or the, the local experience of each property. And Adam and I have talked about this in within gain many times where it's this balance that, you know, it's very challenging to have consistency, to have brand standards, to have a quality of service, but also still maintain the karma energy and differentiation of, do I wanna stay at, perfectly fine generic box hotel. Which is fine. And, and, and that's how you scale and grow in massive numbers, or do you want to have more of a bespoke boutique experience That is, consistent enough as I, as I travel through your portfolio as a guest, for example. Mike Hirschler: It comes back to what matters most, right? What matters most is the consistency of the soft product, [00:44:00] which allows you then to do a lot with individualizing the rest of the product. And making it unique to that particular market and the consistency of the service experience. Now, when I say the consistency of that, that doesn't mean that every interaction is scripted, right? But it is about who you hire. Do they align? Questions we ask are ensuring that there's an alignment to the values and the purpose of the organization, right? And it's ensuring that, that those folks are encouraged to be demonstrative of themselves and their community. And we call it friend style service. That's not that we're. But it is friend style service that really just, it, it takes that wall down that exists, right? And we live in an era where there's so, it's just, it's such a, it's so polarized and there's so much palpability and [00:45:00] tension among people these days when you walk into a hotel or a service environment. That is the most important place for us to get back to the basics of humanity, and that's what we want our people to be, right? That's the consistency that we want our guests to experience, so that when they go to the Maxwell in Seattle, or they go to state pineapple in New York, you're getting very unique people with very different experiences and backgrounds and cultures and all of that and community, but you have this same overall feeling. That that ties it all together. Adam Mogelonsky: That's awesome. So I wanna close out today's conversation with one other feature for state pineapple, and that's, uh, on a furrier note. So our furry friends, you talk about friend style service. Uh, your hotels are also dog friendly, so Mike Hirschler: dog friendly. We're dog obsessed. Adam Mogelonsky: dog [00:46:00] obsessed. Mike Hirschler: dog obsessed. Adam Mogelonsky: so that is a huge value add. Because there are a lot of people that travel with dogs, and they're always looking specifically for that consistency, knowing which hotels are dog friendly, dog obsessed, but that is a huge cost center for a lot of hotels as well. So I'm wondering, could you just talk about how this dog obsession emerged and also how you keep costs under wraps? Mike Hirschler: A couple of things. Uh, so yeah. So we goes back to Michelle. Uh, huge, huge dog lover. Uh, so we, we have on every bed, and I wish I had one. I have one over on a, a bookshelf. Um, but, uh, we have a, a stuffed dash dog, and dash is a real dog, uh, Husky, which in case everybody knows University of Washington is based in Husky. Kind of appropriate. Um, and [00:47:00] so that, that. Stuffy is just everybody absolutely loves it. They wanna buy it, and a portion of proceeds go to, uh, to the local, uh, humane society, in the markets. And so, uh, Michelle's. Family, it's been a long time. Supporters of Seattle Humane, uh, here, here in, uh, Bellevue, Washington. And, um, so part of it is the dog obsession of the ownership that then translated into something that works so well for our guests. Um, and I think the cost center piece of it, I think a lot of people talk themselves into it. A couple of things. Ensure that when you have dogs in a hotel, that there, there's a limitation on where, which rooms that they, you know, can utilize. I know that's something that came in again, back in the day. They were, that was what I would say that was a really important feature for us is as, as dog, uh, dog mom and dad. but what we do is okay, [00:48:00] and there's, there's a clean, there's a fee, there's a pet fee so that their people. People don't expect to walk into a hotel, any hotel that, that accepts their dogs and not expect that there's gonna be a cost associated with that. So I think that is, first we do charge, but we make sure that it's not just money, revenue that comes to us regardless of, you know, what your dog does and how much Michael Cohen: So, so, so Mike, it's not just like a resort fee type scenario, which is like this, this tax basically. Mike Hirschler: No, it's, it is specific only for, you know, if you're bringing your pet, but then we roll out the red cart, or this case, the yellow carpet, um, for, for your, your dogs. I mean, we have, you know, we have custom designed dog beds. We have custom designed dog holes. There's the board in the lobby welcoming the dog. There's, you get. Special treat scenarios. It's just, [00:49:00] it's, we saying, okay, we know that this is a family member for you and you know, you get come, you haven't come with an expectation that you're gonna pay something for that. Well, you should be getting something for that. And too often it's just, oh, you're, you're, we're, we allow dogs. There's a fee, um, you know, BYO on everything. Well, no, they're hotel guests too. And the other thing that we do is we allow your dog to. Hang out in a room alone, which you don't see. And the only thing we do is there's a special, a Do Not Disturb sign because we like to get creative with that. So our normal Do Not Disturb sign is, I'm naked if it's d and d and I'm dressed if it's, uh, okay to come clean my room. Uh, and in this case, I can't remember the exact wording, but it basically is, uh, you know. Mom and dad are away, so you go, or mom and dad aren't here, go away. So that, that way our staff aren't walking into the room, um, you know, with the dog alone, but I, so Right. We don't have problems. I say this knocking on [00:50:00] wood, but I think there becomes, again, this, we the overthink about what could possibly happen. Um, and we're not dealing with know. All the time with interactions between humans. Um, we just, because I think most people that are theirs with them, they understand there's a certain, you know, decorum that. There's an embarrassment if something were to, to go wrong. Uh, so I, I do, I think it's a lot of, it's just not getting into our own heads and then that allows us to be a true differentiator. And one last thing, brand standard, as hotels get re uh, refurbished within our system our hard surface floors. Adam Mogelonsky: I think. Great way to finish off, uh, Mike, is there anything else you want to add that we haven't covered? Mike Hirschler: I just, I, I appreciate some of your own, uh, you know, your own observations [00:51:00] makes it so it's not just me telling a story. Um, because I think we hear so often, you know, we hear, we hear the dream. in this case, you know, people are actually experiencing what it is that. We're, so much fun. I think more than anything from a leadership perspective, you have to have fun at the top of the organization. The people that are at the top of the organization have to really like each other. Um, and that then translates down. And I think that that's what, uh, what has been some of the secret to our success is that we have fun. Being together and engaging with one another and working together doesn't mean that every day that there aren't, it doesn't get stressful. But that is so critical from a cultural standpoint, how it flows through, uh, to the line level team members that then ultimately translates to. Michael Cohen: Yeah, I, I, I couldn't agree more in general. And, and you know, the, uh, and I'll say this is. Is, uh. How we built our [00:52:00] organization and why we, I think we can have these conversations is first of all, yes, of course, many of us have been doing this a long time, but it's that, uh, community, the network, a real term network. Not, not, not the perfunctory business network. You know, like actual real relationships with real people listening and talking, not just talking, uh, you know, all of those things. And having. Know this, this, uh, energy and focus of that. We work, we all work in a very special industry and we're very fortunate to work in this industry. And, um, to just wrapping up too, Adam, to your point earlier, you know, this next gen, like where, you know, where's the next generation of hotelers coming from? And, and tech executives and well, they're gonna come because people like us hopefully are sharing why this is a special industry. Why. There's a level of comradery that is, not typical in every other industry. and the fact that when it is personified for guests and, and, uh, distilled for a brand, it can be incredibly impactful and successful. And without being too, [00:53:00] uh, fan boyish, that's what State Pineapple has done and is doing. So we really appreciate, I really appreciate being involved, Adam, in this conversation particularly. Um, and, uh, but thank you for the time Mike and Adam, uh, off to you. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, Mike, uh, this was fantastic. Lots of timeless lessons and, uh, it's something that really, really, we have, we have a lot for our whole industry to learn from in terms of what state pineapple's doing. So thank you so much for coming on the show. Mike Hirschler: Appreciate both of your time as well. Thank you for inviting me. Adam Mogelonsky: Awesome. Thanks Mike.