Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 353—Income equality issues. Big tech or consulting. Columbia vs Stern.

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MBA Wire Taps 353—Income equality issues. Big tech or consulting. Columbia vs Stern. · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:16
  Speaker A: Welcome to the clear admit MBA admissions podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your wiretaps for Monday, May 20, 2024. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going?
• 0:27
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graham.
• 0:29
  Speaker A: So I am in Chicago and I would like to. To be reporting from the front lines and directly from our fair and everything, but I'm actually recording this a little bit before all that stuff happens. So you have to wait for the next episode in the show to learn more about how all of our activities, the fair we've organized and everything happens in Chicago. But I did make it to the other side of the Atlantic. So that's good news.
• 0:51
  Speaker B: No? Very good. Very good. And best of luck. Obviously, tomorrow, it's a big day for clear admits. And obviously, like you say, we're recording this before the event, so when people listen to this, it will have happened. So congratulations. Yeah.
• 1:04
  Speaker A: And I'm going to try to get some audio of some of the stuff we're doing so that may make an appearance on future episodes or we'll see. We're going to try to record. We'll see how it goes in terms of the audio quality and everything, but stay tuned on that one thing, Alex, that I just wanted to. I don't know if I think I had mentioned this to you, but one of the things I'm really. It's so silly, but it's one of these little things that I'm kind of happy that we're doing at our big fair. And I think interesting to talk about just because it's more of a networking strategy, and that is that you go to one of these events and everyone's kind of buttoned down. And if you're a student or a prospective student, you're going to be talking to admissions officers. So you might be a little bit nervous. It's fair. You also don't know people, so it's always hard to kind of break the ice, etcetera. So what we're doing with our event is your badge, if you attend, has, like your name on it or whatever, but it also has your favorite tv show or movie. So we gathered that information from everyone that's joining us. And the idea behind that just as like a way to kind of break the ice and to sort of just get a little glimpse into someone's kind of personal interests, you know, and, yeah, just to kind of create conversation. And we're doing some fun stuff around that with, like, prizes. If you can find somebody else at the event who has the same favorite as you, that kind of stuff. So we'll see how it goes.
• 2:22
  Speaker B: So what is your favorite? I think tv or movie?
• 2:26
  Speaker A: That's a good question. I think I put Twin Peaks, which is that David lynch tv show. I wasn't a fan of the reboot of it, but the first season of it was amazing. That was kind of pre peak tv, I want to say, like in the nineties. So I'm dating myself, but yeah, I always liked that show.
• 2:42
  Speaker B: No. Very good. Very good.
• 2:43
  Speaker A: What would you put if you were attending the event?
• 2:46
  Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know. It changes over time, doesn't it? Probably at some point in my life I'd have put Seinfeld down.
• 2:52
  Speaker A: I knew you would say that.
• 2:53
  Speaker B: Yeah, but maybe. Yeah, but maybe the young ones or. Yeah. Lots of different stuff.
• 2:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, I know. That's what's hard about it is that there's so many things you could pick. So the other thing is just while we're talking about events, I should mention that next Wednesday, May 22, actually, in a couple of days. If you're listening to this episode, May 22 at noon Eastern, we are continuing with our virtual application overview series. I will be sitting down via Zoom with admissions directors from Tuck, UNc, UVA, Darden, and Yale Som, and we'll be asking them all about their application. Some of you joined us a couple weeks ago when we did our first one. We actually then took a week off because all these events in Chicago. And then we also have another one on May 29, again, a Wednesday at noon. And that one features Carnegie Mellon, Columbia, Wharton, Insead, and LBs. And you can sign up for all these at bit ly, caspringwebinars, all lowercase, all one word. So, yeah, so that's kind of the event stuff. Alex, a lot going on.
• 3:57
  Speaker B: Yeah. I hear you're in Chicago.
• 3:59
  Speaker A: Yeah. You can hear the sirens, right? Yeah. So, yeah, the hotel, I don't know. I guess I think I might actually be just near a hospital or something because I've been hearing some of these sirens coming and going, but. Yeah. So apologize for that. But it does give you the flavor of us being me being in Chicago for the week. Over on the website, we ran an admissions tip about using one of our own tools, which is apply wire. So, Alex, I wondered if you would sort of just elaborate on this. I mean, if someone's early in the process, just beginning their journey to business school, why should they post on Applywire?
• 4:34
  Speaker B: Well, I think it's a good tool for those that want to get a little bit of feedback on their thinking, their strategy, and sort of, you know, what schools to target, what elements to focus on and so on and so forth. So that's the purpose of the tool. And then I'll provide them feedback within 24 hours. Others might also. And then that can then turn into a bit of a dialogue back and forth. And for those that have really interesting profiles or engaging, they'll then get featured on wiretaps.
• 5:12
  Speaker A: That's right.
• 5:12
  Speaker B: Why not, right?
• 5:13
  Speaker A: Yeah. And you can keep it pretty anonymous too, which is great because you just have to indicate schools you're thinking of applying to and the test scores or GPA stuff and your career goals and stuff. So in any event, yeah, we have a lot of fun reading those. And Alex, you do such an amazing job giving people feedback when they post. So use that tool. We did a little article about that on the site. The other thing we ran is a story from Ryan Van Slyke, who's a current Duke Fuqua MBA student. He's going to be graduating this spring. And it's part of our Fridays from the frontline series where we go right to the source and have a current student deliver some content for our site. And basically he just talked about how he never in a million years thought he was going to get an MBA. He had been involved in music and was working, had kind of, I think a more corporate job, consulting or something, if memory serves. But he just talked about how when he thought of business and the people that he knew who studied business as undergrads, that wasn't his crowd. When he announced after he kind of figured out that maybe getting an MBA would actually be quite useful for his career, when he told his friends and family, they were sort of shocked. And so he just talks about going through that sort of transformation and what it's been like being in business school and how much he's gotten out of it. So a really interesting read. And that's up on the site too.
• 6:33
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, very good. Very good. It's nice to see someone get converted like that.
• 6:37
  Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. And I think that's how admissions officers love to see that, too. They love when someone who is kind of non traditional is coming into the pipeline. We also spoke with, as a continuing part of our Real Humans alumni series, we caught up with Seda, who graduated from Cornell in 21, so a few years ago, now works at Amazon as a senior product manager. And she is originally from Turkey, actually Istanbul, and had worked in like consulting and financial services for nine years before getting an MBA. And we asked her, what about your Cornell Johnson MBA experience prepared you for your current career at Amazon? And that is a question that we ask everyone in terms of, like, how did your MBA prepare you for whatever job you're in? And I always love people's answers to this. And she said, Cornell Johnson's academic program is built around immersion, allowing students to customize their educational journey and excel in their chosen domains. The digital technology immersion, led by industry experts and exceptional academics, equipped me with technical skills that remain integral to my daily work. Moreover, the leadership courses and diverse leadership opportunities during my MBA journey significantly enhanced my ability to navigate challenges and communicate effectively, both professionally and personally. So that's what she got out of her time at Johnson. Sounds kind of cool, that digital technology immersion that they offer.
• 7:59
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, very good. And I think, you know, when you're looking at these top tier MBA programs, you know, these top programs, they have so many different options for folks to explore. So, yeah, that doesn't surprise me, actually. But, yeah, very good Johnson. Very good program.
• 8:19
  Speaker A: Yeah. And they have that tech MBA at Johnson that's offered out in New York City. So I'm assuming that the coursework they offer up in Ithaca when it relates to tech is probably quite strong as well. In any event, there's just r1 human this week. It was a little bit of a slower week, and I think our whole team has been pretty focused on the stuff we've been working on with our fair and all these events this month. So I will say if you want to reach out to Alex or me, you can write to us@infocereadmit.com dot. Use the subject line wiretaps and we will write you back. So please send us notes and questions if you have them. Other than that, Alex, should we get into this week's candidates?
• 8:55
  Speaker B: Yeah, let's kick on.
• 8:56
  Speaker A: All right, so this is wiretaps, candidate number one. So our first candidate has seven schools on the target list, and those schools are Columbia, Dartmouth, Harvard, NYU, Stanford, Wharton, and Yale. And they want to start school in the fall of 25. This person has been working in social impact consulting, and they're thinking about nonprofit social impact type work after business school, probably via consulting. They mentioned companies like Accenture, Bain, BCG, and I think the arms of those companies that specifically get involved in that type of work. They had a GRE score of, I believe it says 325, but I think they corrected in the comments that it was actually a 326. They had a GPA of 3.64. An undergraduate, three years of work experience to date. This candidate is located in New York City, I believe. They are a kind of lifetime New Yorker, and they want to land on the east coast when they're done with business school. And they mentioned in the comments that they are extremely passionate about mitigating income inequality, which they've seen up close through their upbringing in New York. They mentioned that there are a lot of different ways to do good, but that their view is that going to business school will really strengthen their skills and network and allow them to be a strong business leader that sort of takes decisions with that kind of advocacy in mind. So they're really interested in nonprofit finance. I guess there's a fund or something called Nonprofit Finance Fund. They mentioned that. They mentioned a whole other list of companies or, you know, entities that may be, you know, appropriate. And then they also just talk about some of the other stuff they do. They've been, you know, working at a food injustice nonprofit, a public policy firm. They, they're really interested in urban planning. They're, you know, it sounds like they're really engaged in their city, and they've had, you know, at this .3 years of work experience. So, Alex, I know you had a little bit of back and forth with this candidate whose handle is curly haired consultant. So. Yeah. What do you make of this candidacy and the list of target schools, etcetera?
• 11:10
  Speaker B: Yeah, I thought you were going to say, what do you make of their username?
• 11:16
  Speaker A: Which.
• 11:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, I'm not sure.
• 11:19
  Speaker A: I guess they have curly hair.
• 11:21
  Speaker B: Yeah. But I really think that ADCOM is going to like this profile. They're going to be rooting for this type of profile because if they're genuine about this desire to work on sort of income inequality, I mean, that's effectively, inequality is one of the biggest problems that civilizations face. Doesn't matter where you go in the world, right? You have the super, super rich, and the growth between the super rich and the poor continues to rise, which is a real fundamental problem in how our systems work and so forth. So if this is something that this person is passionate about in a genuine sense, and what I mean by that is they can show through their experiences to date, whether it's through their professional experience and, or through their volunteer experiences, that this is something genuine, which it looks like they can right through their, their experiences today, then ADCOM should really like the trajectory of this candidacy. This is a candidate that wants to do good and hash proven that through their experience to date and likely can have a high impact with these types of goals. So, frankly, Graham, I think, you know, if they've got the right level of experience. If their numbers are solid, then they're decent. You know, they're probably not outstanding, but they're very decent. Then I think they're going to fare well in the admissions process. They did retake the green. If it was in the 330s, it would sort of align with the very, very top schools. I think they should have a good story to tell when they talk about Stanford's essay, what means most of them and why, and they probably should use that essay to help them think about their strategy for the other programs they're applying. So, yeah, I think this is a potential really, really strong candidate. They have, as you mentioned before we came on air, they are only targeting top ten programs. Is that a bit of a risk? Possibly, but I think in the first round I'd stick to what they're doing.
• 13:54
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree with you. I think one of the things that was interesting was that, especially at this time of year, it's not so common to see someone with a really well mapped out kind of plan. I mean, I just, you know, this candidate was like, wow, the companies I would be interested in are bridge span or I guess what's called walks strategies. There's all these companies and a real kind of path that's kind of laid out and I think that will be appealing to admissions readers as well as the numbers are solid, as you say. If the GRE was a 330, would more scholarship likely come this person's way and more offers, perhaps so, I mean, if it's possible to get a higher score, why not? As you always say, if you don't think you've done the best that you can do, why not take it again? But otherwise, I think it sounds like this person is pretty active, has a good plan and will stand out based on the work they've done to date and the work that they plan on continuing with. So, yeah, there's just a lot to like here, and I am happy to read that. They seem to just, I guess, I don't know, just have a good head on their shoulders about the goals and everything else. And I will say they don't clarify, but I believe this is a female candidate because they mentioned that they're working on hosting a women in technology networking event and it's possible that they're a man doing that. I think it might be a woman, which again, helps stand out in the pool too, because there are fewer women than men who apply to business school. So just another kind of tick mark in their favor, basically.
• 15:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think. And am I right? In remembering that they went to a state school for their undergrad. I'm just trying to scan their profile now, whether that was this candidate or.
• 15:34
  Speaker A: Another candidate, I don't know that they mentioned it, actually. I didn't see it, or, I mean, maybe I missed it, but no. So we don't really know. But I mean, 364 is going to be very close to the average at these top schools.
• 15:47
  Speaker B: And so I guess I should then answer that question or ask you the question. Graham, would it matter if they went to a state school versus, let's say they've come out of an Ivy school with this profile?
• 15:58
  Speaker A: I mean, I would focus more on, like, what did they study and is there enough kind of quantitative background and stuff like that? I think if we're talking about a kind of noted state school and a, versus a IV or, you know, IV type school, I think those are all going to be well received. If it's an unknown state school where almost everyone who applies gets in, then we get into the issue of is that, you know, how do they weight that GPA or something? But I think this person's okay in that regard. I mean, they have a high gPa. The Gre sort of reflects that. They're clearly bright, so I'm not too worried. But, yeah, again, there's a lot to like here, as we like to say.
• 16:40
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if they, if they end up with a slightly higher GrE score, they've got decent GPA. It looks like their work experience is good, well aligned other activities and this really sort of purpose driven goal that they can really brag about. Not brag about, but I mean, they can back it up with lots of stuff that they've done. They've got to be an attractive candidate overall. So, yeah, best of luck to them. Obviously, they've got to execute well on their candidates, see, but I think they should be applied to these programs in round one. And if they have to then rejig things for round two, then I think that's going to be perfectly fine because they're not going to be over represented with goals like this.
• 17:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think they're okay. I mean, I would still try to get some in, in the first round, obviously, but some can spill if they need to.
• 17:29
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 17:30
  Speaker A: All right. Want to thank that candidate for sharing their profile. Let's move on, though, and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week has a whopping 14 schools on the target list, something that you kind of counseled them against in your comments. I see here Alex on the website, but they have, you know, Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, Harvard, Hec Parris, Michigan, Mit, Kellogg, Stern, Chicago, Wharton, Darden and Yale. So essentially all us top 16 type schools with the exception of HCC Paris, which is in France. So they're going to try to start as well. In the fall of 25, this person has been working as a product associate before business school, and they want to get into consulting or maybe tech, or they also list asset management. And as a result, they list like 20 companies that they might want to work for. So similar approach to the number of schools they have on their list. They have like, sort of every company that people often talk about wanting to work for. They have a 720 on their GMAt and they had a 3.78 undergraduate GPA. They've been working for five years. This candidate is based in India, in Mumbai, and they want to land in the United States after business school. They did write a rather lengthy kind of note in their file to sort of explain their trajectory and all the things that have led them to business school. You know, in essence, they've had a few different experiences. I mean, they, they, I guess they did the chartered accountancy in India, and so they did some work in that domain, but they also have worked in tech. I think they've actually had a couple of different jobs, as it turns out. So they, you know, I think that they are at, I don't know if they're still there, but I know one of the roles they've had is with Deloitte. And I'm almost certain that via that role at Deloitte, they've actually done some work with major companies like Ford Motor Company and others. So they also, it sounds like, have been doing things outside of the office. And so they're. Yeah, I mean, they, it's a really long post here and we can get into it in detail. But the thing that I'm kind of curious to just understand is, you know, what do you advise someone in this situation where they have so many schools on the list? They're, I think, overrepresented. Right. Because I'm pretty sure this is a male candidate, Indian 723.78. So what would you say to this person? And I know, I think you did offer some advice in the comments here. So walk us through it.
• 20:05
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, they sort of look like they, I'm guessing they're sort of first generation to college from their family because they say at the end, as the first person in my family to pursue this path. So. Or maybe others have, but they've pursued the path slightly differently. They went out, became a chartered accountant, very sort of standard, very decent professional, sort of experience in India, highly respected, but that wasn't good enough for them. They had this sort of internal motivation to want to pursue other stuff. So they pursued consulting tech type opportunities, and they also want to make, again, like our first candidate, they kind of want to make an impact. So they've done some sort of social impact type work and so on and so forth. So I think they've had a pretty good professional pathway as well as, you know, things outside of work. So I think from that perspective, they've done very well. Their goals now are to either go into big tech or consulting in the short term and so forth. I think they need in their applications to really pick one of those two paths to sort of double down on it. Obviously, when they get to an MBA program, if they want to keep their options open minimally, and obviously they can, they think that their candidacy is a little unconventional because they switched away from childhood accountancy and so forth. And we had a conversation before we came on air to sort of challenge that idea. It does seem actually like quite similar to quite a few MBA candidates. I wouldn't bank on being unconventional. Unconventional can actually be a. An opportunity if they can show that they can fit in, which they'd certainly be able to show that. So I think the basic recommendations for a candidate like this, potentially over represented, coming from India, would be just make sure that they apply in the first round for all their target programs. So you mentioned they have 14 on their list. They've narrowed that down. I think they've got Kellogg, Booth, Haas, Sloan, Wharton, Stern and Yale as their real target schools. They might retake the GMAT. Graham? They've got a really good gpA. I think they've got a really good GPa relative to India. So that 720, though, is. It is. In the grand scheme of things, it is a good GMAT score. It's at the median for many of these schools or slightly below. So if they were able to improve that GMAT but still get their applications in for round one, that may pay dividends, but I wouldn't wait till round two to have a higher GMAT school.
• 23:19
  Speaker A: Yeah. So the couple things going on here, what's interesting is that they mentioned when you called them on there, you kind of said, boy, that's a lot of schools. And they said, oh, don't worry, as you say, I'm focusing on these, and you just read them off the Kellogg booth. Haas, all that stuff in the first round, and they said the others could be categorized under safety schools. And I want to sort of take issue with that because I don't necessarily. I mean, first of all, the other schools on the list are all pretty darn good, too. And I'm a little concerned that Indian, potentially male, the 720 gMAT is not going to jump off the page. It's actually below the average at a number of their targets. And I would argue, yeah, they're coming from an overrepresented portion of the pool. So I think they need to. I agree. They need to narrow the list. I just don't know that I would only apply to the very best schools on the list in the first round and then, wait for the quote, safety schools in round two. As we've talked on the show before, that can be dangerous if you're an overrepresented candidate because you might end up not getting in, in round one to the very, very reachy type schools. And then in round two, when you apply to what you think are safeties, if you're overrepresented, they're going to be long shots, too. So I think, yeah, it's definitely something to consider is, like, how do they balance which schools they choose to apply to in the first round? And, you know, they seemed a little reticent to retake the test. I think, you know, if you have a 720 on the GMAT and you're in an overrepresented portion of the pool and you're targeting the very best schools on the planet, you might want to think about taking it a second time. One of the problems they probably face, Alex, is that they have a 720, which means they took the original GMAT exam, probably prepped for it. And now if they were to take again, that exam is no longer an offer. Right. So it's been phased out. And so now I think all tests that are being taken are going to be GMAT focus edition, which they're now just calling the GMAT. Cause it's been phased in. So that may be some of it. I don't know if you have a point of view on that, but that does mean it's a shorter test. So maybe it's easier in that regard, but it is a little bit different.
• 25:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's a little bit different, but I certainly wouldn't use that as an excuse not to retake. I'm sure the preparation for the exam is somewhat similar in terms of the knowledge base, but, yeah, maybe you just got to learn the different format and so forth. But, yeah, like I say, a 720 is a good GMAT score in the grand scheme of things, but it's not outstanding for these types of programs, for this type of profile.
• 25:47
  Speaker A: Right, right, exactly. That's the issue. So again, this is the benefit, though, of, like, using applywire because you get this sort of outsider perspective from Alex and me or, you know, or just taking feedback from anyone, because sometimes if you're in a bubble and you're putting together your candidacy, you don't you need that kind of reality check. So again, I think this person, they seem to have a pretty compelling profile, and they probably will land at one of these schools, but it's not, I think that they may be overestimating, you know, the sort of level at which they're going to compete with the current numbers. Right. So in any event, there's maybe room for improving that test score and working on that strategy in terms of round one schools to target. So in any event, very interesting profile. I'm sure that you picked it out for some of these reasons. I want to thank them for sharing, but let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three. So our final candidate this week comes from a decision wire entry. As usual this time of year, you've picked someone who applied to Berkeley, Columbia, NYU, UCLA, and Darden. Okay. And this person had a 690 on the GMAt, a three seven GPA. They'd been working. Actually, they don't tell us they want to work in consulting. They're located in New York, and, you know, they're starting school this fall. And the results were that they got into Stern, Anderson, and Darden. The Darden admit came with $40,000. And so with that information in hand, they put down a deposit at NYU Stern. They later found out, I guess they had been wait listed or something, but they later found out that they were admitted to Columbia. And that's thrown a wrench into the works because here they've deposited at Stern. They just found out they got into Columbia and they're now kind of questioning. And they actually say, I really like the vibe of the Sternys I've met, and I live much closer to Stern, and I'm not able to move. So this person lives in New York currently. Eventually, I'd like to end up on the west coast. So I'm drawn to the large network of Columbia business school, but I'm worried the culture may not be as good of a fit as stern. Any insights? So, Alex, what say you? This is interesting. So they. It sounds like, they're really just trying to decide between Stern and Columbia at this point. And they've already deposited at Stern.
• 28:06
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 28:06
  Speaker A: And they want to work in consulting. They want to land on the west coast eventually.
• 28:09
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think. Yeah, I'm guessing so. So forgive me if I'm completely wrong, but they're probably cohabiting with their partner in New York City and that, hence why they chose stern over Darden. Obviously, they've got that passion for fashion, so I could see why Stern, stern is a decent choice for them. But living with their partner, whatever it is, might be a reason why they don't want to move. They can't move. So they're traveling further to Colombia. Is it a good fit? Maybe there's a little less reputation for Colombia on the fashion side. I think if they do an all in on Colombia, they're going to find that actually they've got a good. They'll find a good network at Columbia, and they'll enjoy the vibe at Columbia. So I think it's more of a question. They understand the vibe better at Stern because they've gone all in a little bit because they pay the deposit, whereas Colombia is now that new sort of shiny opportunity and so forth. I just think in the long run, if you want to be on the West Coast, I would just think long and hard about which of the two programs stern or Columbia has the better networks and the better opportunities over on the west coast. Because when you typically think of those schools in New York, we typically only think that people want to be in New York the whole of the rest of their lives. Right.
• 29:49
  Speaker A: Right.
• 29:50
  Speaker B: That's the draw to those programs. But I would look long and hard at the stern network in California and compare it with the Columbia network. Columbia is in the tier above. It is an m seven. It's going to have a larger class, slightly higher quality, aggregate quality of student body, which I think is always important when you're dealing with a program in a tier above. So there are opportunities to network, even join the program, are going to be stronger at Columbia. So, yeah, I'm leaning Columbia, which I think, you know, in the very, very, very short term, in the next two or three weeks will be a big hassle because they got to sort of step away from probably some networking they've already done at Stern.
• 30:46
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's an interesting dilemma. I mean, I think on the surface of it, you would say, like you point out, Columbia is the sort of m seven school. It's the tier. It's in the tier above, you know, all the usual stuff that we would hear this on Reddit. Everyone would pile on and say, oh, you know, don't be stupid. Go to the usual kind of. But the issue that I come to is there are two other lenses to look through this. Right. One is they want to be on the west coast. And frankly, I honestly don't have a great understanding of either of these programs reach on the west coast in terms of their networks. And I think, you know, it'd be interesting to kind of find out, you know, like, what's the alumni club for stern like in, you know, La or San Francisco? Same thing for CB's. Like, just be good to do that research based on geography. And I think it's related to the third point or the sort of other lens I was talking about, which is the career kind of focus. And this person mentions, I don't know that they mentioned fashion, but they mentioned design. They say that they come from the design industry and they're leaning towards stern for their connections to creative industries. And so that got me thinking about, well, what's the stern network like in LA in maybe the kind of entertainment sector or creative sector? And I don't honestly know, but I could imagine it being pretty, pretty darn good. Right. Because of just the reputation that CERN has for that domain in New York. So I would just encourage them to do some of this digging. But I do agree with you. It's hard when you made a deposit and you've kind of gone down that path, you kind of backing out. It's a whole other routine and you really need to figure it out. And I can understand momentum is a powerful thing, but I would encourage them to do some due diligence on the specific industry. I mean, they mentioned they were working consulting, but I don't. That's kind of vague. Right. And I don't know what they have in the very long term in mind other than being on the west coast. So I think that might, the answer may lie in that. But, yeah, on the surface, obviously, they've been admitted to the school that's typically ranked higher and is more competitive in terms of acceptance rates and things.
• 32:50
  Speaker B: So, yeah, there's no difference in scholarship money. Right.
• 32:53
  Speaker A: No, I mean, that's the other thing. Yeah. Is that there's no money. So I think that's why most people would say Columbia. But it is, yeah, it's challenging, especially, you know, with the fit that it seems like they have. And they, they probably missed the boat a little bit on attending, like a welcome weekend or admitted student event at Columbia. Right. So they, you know, wouldn't have done that if they only just found out recently about Columbia. So anyway it makes it all rather challenging but it's a nice problem to have. They did, you know, they almost ran the table with their application strategy so pretty darn good there. The only school that didn't except them was Berkeley so they did well overall and I wish them the best of luck as they try to make this decision. Alex, we've done it again, three candidates in about 30 minutes or so so we'll do it all again next week. I apologize. My voice is fading. I had a, you know, I'm dealing with jet lag and all this stuff traveling across the ocean to come to Chicago this week but really good to connect with you and record this and we'll do it all again next week.
• 33:51
  Speaker B: Very good. Best of luck everyone. Stay safe. It.